Driving the Valkyrie was Crazy! Ferrari and GM Partnering? Lamborghini Says NO to EV

Summary

THIS CAR POD! with Doug DeMuro & Friends!
Episode: Driving the Valkyrie was Crazy! Ferrari and GM Partnering? Lamborghini Says NO to EV
Release Date: December 20, 2024

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1. Honoring Gene Jennings [01:07]

The episode opens with Doug DeMuro paying tribute to the late Gene Jennings, a legendary figure in automotive journalism. Gene Jennings, who served as the editor-in-chief of Automobile magazine, significantly influenced Doug’s career.

Doug DeMuro [01:08]:
“Jean Jennings is responsible for a lot of the beginnings of my illustrious career... She had a huge direct relationship on, you know, where I am today in the beginnings of my career.”

Doug recounts how in 2009, he reached out to Automobile magazine with his car spotting hobby. Gene Jennings responded, leading to his feature in the July 2009 issue—a pivotal moment that set the stage for his entry into car journalism.

Kenneth [03:32]:
“It's such a cool butterfly effect story. That's really neat.”

2. Porsche Carrera GT Tire Recall and Performance Enhancement [04:43]

The discussion shifts to the Porsche Carrera GT, focusing on its recent recall and the introduction of new Michelin Pilot Sport Cup 2 tires.

Doug DeMuro [05:01]:
“Porsche is giving everybody new tires now. Porsche specifically developed a new tire for the Carrera GT... they beat their previous time with the original tires set back when the car was new by 20 seconds just with tires.”

A German publication, Sport Auto, tested the Carrera GT with the new tires around the Nürburgring, achieving lap times faster than the renowned Porsche 918 Spyder. Doug emphasizes the significance of tire technology in enhancing performance.

Felipe [06:55]:
“I am kind of curious.”

The conversation explores the potential for older cars to benefit from modern tire advancements, sparking curiosity about future performance tests across various classic models.

3. Nissan’s Potential Merger Talks [12:50]

Felipe introduces news about Nissan entering merger discussions, possibly with Honda, to form the third-largest automobile manufacturer globally.

Felipe [12:54]:
“There have been a lot of reports that they are talking about a merger... They should apparently be entering into a memorandum of understanding this week.”

Doug and Kenneth discuss the inevitability of consolidation in the automotive industry amid rising competition from Tesla, startups, and Chinese manufacturers.

Doug DeMuro [14:06]:
“It's just scale. I do think it's interesting that Nissan is going down this road after the Renault thing... Now they're.”

The dialogue highlights the strategic importance of such mergers for legacy automakers to stay competitive in the evolving EV market.

4. Lamborghini’s Stance on Electric Vehicles [18:22]

Lamborghini announces a delay in their EV production plans, pushing back the release of their electric models to 2029.

Doug DeMuro [18:22]:
“I think this news story, I'm just like, hell yeah.”

Kenneth and Felipe express their perspectives, with Doug supporting Lamborghini’s decision to prioritize performance and brand identity over premature electrification.

Kenneth [18:58]:
“I think there is less of an interest in the plug-in stuff. But they are doing okay.”

The hosts discuss the broader implications for high-performance sports cars and the importance of maintaining the visceral driving experiences that enthusiasts cherish.

5. Ferrari and GM Partnership in Formula One [23:34]

Ferrari announces its intention to supply engines to the Cadillac Formula One team starting in 2026. However, Cadillac has yet to receive approval from the FIA to compete.

Kenneth [23:50]:
“You have to go through... it gets very political.”

Doug reflects on the challenges and strategic maneuvers involved in entering Formula One, questioning the alignment between Cadillac's brand identity and Ferrari's engineering prowess.

Doug DeMuro [24:35]:
“I don't understand what... So it wants to be in the F1 so badly that they are going to have to engine built by another manufacturer.”

The segment examines the complexities of such partnerships and their potential impact on American automotive presence in international racing.

6. Driving the Aston Martin Valkyrie [29:06]

In the "Talk Cars" segment, Doug shares his intense driving experience with the Aston Martin Valkyrie.

Doug DeMuro [33:58]:
“Driving a Formula one car because it's like, you've never driven. You wouldn't know.”

He describes the Valkyrie as an "absolute visceral insanity," highlighting its extreme performance characteristics and the challenges of maneuvering such a high-performance vehicle.

Felipe [35:05]:
“Nobody knows what it's like.”

The trio debates the unique appeal of hypercars like the Valkyrie compared to traditional sports cars, emphasizing the emotional connection enthusiasts have with raw, powerful machines.

7. Market Report: Lotus Evora and Lucid Air Sapphire [46:14]

Felipe and Kenneth discuss trends in the used car market, focusing on the declining prices of models like the Lotus Evora and the stability of the Lucid Air Sapphire.

Doug DeMuro [46:56]:
“I can't imagine that a 2010 with 23,000 miles and a manual gets too much cheaper than 36.”

They analyze how certain cars retain value due to their reliability and desirability, while others become bargains as their depreciations plateau.

Kenneth [47:35]:
“No, but I mean it car, you know, the electronic system fails and strands you somewhere.”

Concerns about the reliability of specific models like the Lotus Evora are discussed, balancing the appeal of lower costs against potential maintenance issues.

8. Q&A Segment [53:26]

The hosts engage with audience questions, sharing anecdotes and insights into the challenges and humorous situations they've encountered in the automotive world.

Rodney's Question [53:56]:
“... what were the craziest buyers and sellers that you've had to deal with...”

Doug and Felipe recount unusual experiences, such as lawsuits from disgruntled buyers and unexpected damages to press cars, underscoring the unpredictable nature of the automotive market.

Kenneth [54:33]:
“...some of the buyers remorse was some of my favorite...”

They emphasize the importance of due diligence for buyers and the occasional absurdity that comes with high-stakes car transactions.

9. Closing Remarks and Upcoming Episodes [67:03]

Doug wraps up the episode by teasing next week's special Christmas episode, which will focus on audience questions and feature a special guest.

Doug DeMuro [67:19]:
“That's our podcast. It was the finest one we've ever done. Thank you for tuning in.”

The episode concludes with friendly farewells and a reminder to join future discussions on automotive trends and enthusiast experiences.

---

Notable Quotes with Timestamps

• Doug DeMuro [01:08]:
  “Jean Jennings is responsible for a lot of the beginnings of my illustrious career... She had a huge direct relationship on, you know, where I am today in the beginnings of my career.”

• Doug DeMuro [05:01]:
  “Porsche is giving everybody new tires now. Porsche specifically developed a new tire for the Carrera GT... they beat their previous time with the original tires set back when the car was new by 20 seconds just with tires.”

• Felipe [12:54]:
  “There have been a lot of reports that they are talking about a merger... They should apparently be entering into a memorandum of understanding this week.”

• Doug DeMuro [18:22]:
  “I think this news story, I'm just like, hell yeah.”

• Kenneth [23:50]:
  “You have to go through... it gets very political.”

• Doug DeMuro [33:58]:
  “Driving a Formula one car because it's like, you've never driven. You wouldn't know.”

• Doug DeMuro [46:56]:
  “I can't imagine that a 2010 with 23,000 miles and a manual gets too much cheaper than 36.”

• Kenneth [54:33]:
  “No, but I mean it car, you know, the electronic system fails and strands you somewhere.”

• Doug DeMuro [67:19]:
  “That's our podcast. It was the finest one we've ever done. Thank you for tuning in.”

---

This comprehensive summary encapsulates the episode's key discussions, insights, and memorable moments, providing a clear and engaging overview for both regular listeners and newcomers alike.

Transcript

[Doug DeMuro]

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[Felipe]

14 day expiration terms apply.

[Doug DeMuro]

See DutchBros.com this episode is brought to you by Lifelock. The holidays mean more travel, more shopping, more time online and more personal info in places that could expose you to identity theft. That's why LifeLock monitors millions of data points every second. If your identity is stolen, their US based restoration specialist will fix it, guaranteed or your money back. Get more holiday fun and less holiday worry with Lifelock. Save up to 40% your first year. Visit lifelock.com podcast terms apply. Hello and welcome to this car pod.

[Kenneth]

I'm Kenneth.

[Felipe]

I'm Felipe.

[Doug DeMuro]

Let's get into it the news starting with Gene Jennings. Gene Jennings passed away a couple days ago. Jean Jennings had enormous roles at Auto Auto magazines throughout the 1980s, 90s and specifically at Automobile magazine where she was the editor in chief for many years. And she was like a legend in the automotive journalism space. And so everybody's kind of paying tribute to her. I have a Jean Jennings story that I would like to share. Jean Jennings is responsible for a lot of the beginnings of my illustrious career. In 2009 I car spotted. That was like my thing 2009 and.

[Felipe]

2024 to this day.

[Doug DeMuro]

But I sent a letter to Automobile magazine in 2009 telling them, Hey, I do this car spotting thing. Maybe this is something you want to write an article about. And I only sent it to Automobile because Gene Jennings had the foresight of making Automobile more of a lifestyle mag than like a instrumented test specific things magazine, which obviously now they're all going in that direction. And she called me. I was 21 and she called me and I still remember for some reason I was a New York City, I was in Central park and it was the winter and I got her call and she was like, yeah, this sounds fun and we'll send a writer and a photographer to cover it and we'll do an article about it. And I was like, oh my God, I'm gonna be an automobile. But it was the coolest thing in the world. I mean lots of magazines are not as big of a deal now, but they really were. I mean that was the cool for a 21 year old kid who grew up reading every car magazine. Coolest thing. And I'm talking to Gene Jennings, right. So they did. And I was featured in the July 2009 issue of Automobile magazine for car spotting. And in fact, it was the COVID It was one of the COVID stories. Wow. And I have like 50 copies of it still. And there's pictures of me in the magazine and like, you know, driving around Atlant taking pictures of Lamborghinis. So that magazine was purchased by a guy who then later kind of became my mentor and started me off in car journalism. And I kind of can trace all that back to that article. Years later, I bumped into Jean Jennings, Detroit Auto show and I said to her, hey, I don't know if you remember me, but this was the. Then I told her the story and she didn't remember it was years before, but she was like, oh, I'm so glad we did that. And that's so wonderful. And she was very nice to me. And so I only met her twice, but she had a huge direct relationship on, you know, where I am today in the beginnings of my career.

[Kenneth]

It's such a cool butterfly effect story. That's really neat.

[Doug DeMuro]

Yeah, right, right. It's like minor interactions, but like a pretty big actual.

[Kenneth]

Here we are.

[Doug DeMuro]

Yeah, here we are.

[Kenneth]

How cool.

[Doug DeMuro]

Jean Jennings.

[Kenneth]

Thank you. Jean Jennings.

[Felipe]

I think in a lot of ways, for a lot of people of our generation, she created the like car journalist role that I think we all at some point growing up wanted to be. We want to be that because of.

[Doug DeMuro]

And she was insane. And one of the cool. I mean, in a great way, because Automobile magazine used to do these cool tests. I'll never forget when she did coast to coast in a Bugatti Veyron. That was the, that was the, the front cover of the magazine. Well, the coast turned out to be the east coast of Florida to the west coast. And she did it with Hurley Heywood. I think if I remember. I can't, I can't. This is years ago. But they would do weird things like that. And as a result, you know, of the four magazines, Road and Track, Car and Drive, Motor Train and then Automobile, I always preferred Automobile. I thought they just had the coolest content, the coolest, like lifestyle, weird storytelling kind of stuff. And they employed Ezra Dyer for a while, is one of the greatest writers and I just thought it was the best. And she's hugely responsible for that, but personally also responsible for real success in my life. Jean Jennings, I love it.

[Kenneth]

That's what a Great story.

[Doug DeMuro]

It is. It's an interesting story. I think about it a lot. Indeed. Next news story. Today, career GT also something you think a lot of time think about it all the time. In fact, I sent my career still at my dealership getting service and I sent them like this angry text, like get me the car back. And I think it came from because I watched the lap time. Yeah, like I want to drive this thing.

[Kenneth]

I got a lap of my own.

[Doug DeMuro]

To say courage GT lap time. So here's the deal. Porsche developed a new tire for the Courre GT. We're getting the car. The Courier GTs are all being recalled right now for suspension componentry and Porsche is putting on new tires because tires have kind of always been one of the stories of this car. This tires are aging out. The car is dangerous with the old tires, so they say. So Porsche is giving everybody new tires now. Porsche specifically developed a new tire for the Carrera GT, a new type of Michelin Pilot Sport Cup 2 tire. And the car with the new tires went around Nurburgring and did 712 60, 900 thousandths, millionths. Nobody knows or cares the result of this, the car. Now this is just a tire change. Sport Auto did this test, just a German publication. They beat their previous time with the original tires set back when the car was new by 20 seconds just with tires. And this is in my opinion the really important one. This is faster than the factory 918 Spyder lap time around Urban Grand.

[Felipe]

How much faster is it than the factory Crereo GT lap time?

[Doug DeMuro]

Porsche I don't think did one, but all of the Courrero GT lap times were between 18 and 20 seconds slower than what the current 16 and 20 seconds slow. So just tires now. I have also upgraded my suspension and the general feeling in the Courrero GT community is that you have to upgrade your suspension. Everyone who drives the car has done it and if they upgraded the suspension, I can't imagine how many more seconds it would pull off. You start to wonder if it would be around that seven minute mark, which is where some really serious cars are. But regardless, it's faster than 918 spyder, proving something we've all already known. It's better than 918 spyder.

[Kenneth]

But this, this opens, in my opinion, the more interesting, I mean it's a very interesting thing for you specifically since you own one. But I think it opens the door for more tests of older cars with modern rubber because tire technology has changed a lot since I mean even in the last 20 years. So I agree. I am kind of curious.

[Doug DeMuro]

I would argue that because this car had these specially developed. Nobody there is modern rubbers available for old cars. But Porsche developed this tire and is now mandating that people put the tire on the car. I would argue two things. Number one, this is how fast the car is around Nurburgring because that's the.

[Felipe]

Factory tire and the fact providing it to every owner.

[Doug DeMuro]

And number two, okay, I'll see what a Ferrari F50 does on a modern rubber. But that's not a big man like I. We can do all sorts of modifications but this is a factory thing.

[Kenneth]

I don't really think tires are a mod necessarily.

[Doug DeMuro]

That's. I don't consider you want to throw. Start throwing slicks on cars and going around Nurburgring then you got yourself a problem.

[Kenneth]

Slicks do become different spoken. That's a different story.

[Felipe]

Like somebody that owns a courage. YouTube.

[Doug DeMuro]

Yeah.

[Kenneth]

Wants it to stay there and you know, maybe they refresh the tires to the 918 and give it specific tires.

[Doug DeMuro]

Maybe they should. They won't I bet because that's automatic hybrid stuff and this is real.

[Felipe]

Are we talking about this on the podcast? Because you will sell it as soon as you get it back from service. Now that there's more hype, I can't.

[Doug DeMuro]

Wait to drive it again. Especially on the new tires.

[Felipe]

What time do you think you could do on the. Yeah. You personally.

[Doug DeMuro]

This was a Porsche test driver by the way, who did this at 7:1269.

[Kenneth]

It's an amazing lap to watch by the way, if you haven't gone.

[Doug DeMuro]

I think I could do. What are you 714? I think I would do 10 minutes. I watched the lap. I watched the lap, the whole thing. How many times? Two things really hit me about this lap. Yeah. Number one, he is always either full throttle or full brakes without exception.

[Kenneth]

That is how you drive. Or yeah.

[Doug DeMuro]

It's easier said than done when you're driving in somebody else's million dollar car. He is always full throttle or front brakes without exception. Very interesting to watch. He just had no fear. Right.

[Kenneth]

Well that's the thing about race car drivers. They don't. They get paid the big bucks to do it. If they stuff it, they stuff it. But like we're going to, we're going to do this.

[Doug DeMuro]

Yep, yep. Commitment. And that hit me watching the lap. And also it's kind of funny because like this is just for sport, you know, like it's not. It's not. There's no Professional aspect, but he just went for it. It was also very interesting. If you watch the lap, about 6:55 into the lap, it's a 7:12 lap, he almost loses it. And that is interesting to me because Nurburgring is incredibly long. You got to. If you want to drive and set a real time, you got to be chill with the fact that at 6:55, after all the work you've done, you might lose it. And you have to drive in a way that, that might be possible. Like, you can't be like, oh, I've done six and a half amazing minutes, so I'm just going to chill the last minute, which is what you'd want to do mentally. You got to take every minute of this track as like, real. And I'm watching it like, I can't believe he hits 180 miles an hour, 300 kilometers. And on the slowdown from that, he almost loses it. As he's downshifting. The car gets. I mean, I'm sure he was in control, but I would have lost. And you can tell he's clearly. The car is moving around a little.

[Felipe]

Yeah. You know, the dancing over seven minutes of pure concentration, you're not in a normal, shorter track, you're seven minutes, you're repeating a lap many, many times here. You're something new.

[Doug DeMuro]

Yeah.

[Felipe]

For a full seven minutes.

[Doug DeMuro]

Yeah.

[Kenneth]

And I have to say, it's hard having watched it. Also, like, his, like, his shift points are so perfect. It's like he knew. It's like he had a list. Is my industry remembered exactly what number gear you had to be in? It's just like.

[Doug DeMuro]

It's just amazing.

[Kenneth]

That's what.

[Doug DeMuro]

And remember, this is without rev matching, this is without pdk.

[Kenneth]

This is real driving.

[Doug DeMuro]

This adds another element to what a 918 Spider Drive would be, where you can probably leave in an automatic. They probably shift. But even then, as opposed to actually.

[Kenneth]

Moving your leg, I mean, it's real. I know. No, it's. It's very impressive. That's. That's real race car. It's real racecraft.

[Doug DeMuro]

It really is. It really is racing the clock. You're racing the clock, but it really was a masterclass in how you have to do this. It's been a while since I've watched a full Nurburgring lap in car. It is quite something.

[Kenneth]

Well, I think you have the perspective of having driven one and you own one, and it's like you can imagine more of what it's like than watching a Pagani, whatever go around the track.

[Doug DeMuro]

Nonetheless, I'm sitting there like, wow, this is what a professional. This is the difference between me and a professional. And it ain't a small difference. It is real. And I drive my car hard, and I can do great downshifts. It's taken a long time to figure it out, but. But not like that. He's on a. And I can't. He's driving the car so hard, it's almost like he's had years of experience in it. But you presume he hasn't. He probably just showed up and did a couple of laps, right?

[Kenneth]

That's the thing. That's why they're professionals.

[Felipe]

This is 15 seconds slower than the Mustang GTD we were talking about a.

[Doug DeMuro]

Week or two ago.

[Felipe]

Which is the fastest American car ever, ever, and is meant for that purpose, by the way. This is 20 years old, should point out.

[Doug DeMuro]

Also, this is the second fastest manual transmission car ever to behind what the Nurburgring ACR Viper, which, remember, had tire failure on the third lap. They had to bail. But, hey, man, no tire failure here.

[Kenneth]

Imagine how scary that is to do. If this car, which is designed for this purpose, like the Viper, is a sports car, but, like, you know, it's a hand, it's probably a bigger handful.

[Doug DeMuro]

That would be an interesting lap to watch on the inside.

[Kenneth]

It shows how.

[Doug DeMuro]

Just amazing. Amazing all around. Amazing that they did it. And I truly wonder, with good suspension at that point, obviously, you're going away from my whole claim about its manufacturer provided tires, but I do wonder, like, where it could go. But then you start wondering, okay, well, where could F50 go? Where could McLaren F1 go? Where could F40 go if you were willing to change out some wearables, like suspension?

[Kenneth]

To be honest with you, a lot of cars, just a huge list, even beyond the supercars, like, what does an E46 M3 do with Cup 2s on it?

[Doug DeMuro]

It makes you wonder, though. It kind of neutralizes some of all these great. Like we hear, oh, 19 spyder is so much faster. Well, only because there's some modernized stuff that actually you could fix pretty easily. And then it's like, okay, well, if they're the same fast, wouldn't you rather have the one with the V10 and the manual?

[Felipe]

Yes.

[Doug DeMuro]

You know which car is not faster? The Countach.

[Kenneth]

Yeah, there's not much fixing that.

[Doug DeMuro]

I wonder if anybody's ever done a Countach lap.

[Kenneth]

Oh, man.

[Felipe]

If.

[Kenneth]

If it made it and they didn't.

[Doug DeMuro]

Like, seven minutes of, like, hard driving.

[Kenneth]

I mean, well, seven minutes would be generous. It's gonna be like eight and a half. Yeah, exactly.

[Doug DeMuro]

All right, give us the next. That's the best news story of the week. The month of the year. Give us the next new strike. I'm sure you want to tell Nissan.

[Felipe]

There have been a lot of reports that they are talking about a merger.

[Doug DeMuro]

Yeah.

[Felipe]

Or other partnership. They're kind of vague about this. They haven't really started the talks. They should apparently be entering into a memorandum of understanding this week, next week to really begin the merger talks.

[Doug DeMuro]

Crazy.

[Felipe]

We talked a while ago about how Nissan had, per some reports, a year or so of being around before they go bankrupt.

[Doug DeMuro]

Yeah.

[Felipe]

This is their solution. Hopefully for them it would create the third largest manufacturer behind Volkswagen Group and Toyota Group. It would also include Mitsubishi because Nissan owns like 25, 24 Mitsubishi. It's interesting.

[Doug DeMuro]

Yeah.

[Felipe]

It's kind of inevitable. Like there's got to be some consolidation. There's a lot of manufacturers. There's a lot of pressure from Tesla and other startup brands and Chinese brands certainly that have seemingly unlimited development capital and.

[Doug DeMuro]

Protectionist.

[Felipe]

Protectionist. So you gotta. It's not that surprising that autumn that.

[Doug DeMuro]

I agree.

[Felipe]

They will consolidate as FCA did. By the way, as looks like we.

[Doug DeMuro]

Were talking last week about how there's too many brands we're trying to figure out. Alfa Romeo and Maserati. Go. Here's a good example of if some of these companies want to survive, it's not just brands, it's manufacturers. If some of these companies want to survive, this kind of stuff's going to be inevitable. I noticed Nissan stock price is up 23% yesterday. Honda's was down 5%. Tells you a lot, right?

[Kenneth]

That's. And that's exactly what I think. What does Honda have to gain?

[Doug DeMuro]

Scale.

[Kenneth]

Just pure scale.

[Doug DeMuro]

Yeah, it's just scale. I do think it's interesting that Nissan is going down this road after the Renault thing, which they did and then fought so hard against and tried to get out of it and then did successfully get out of it. Now they're.

[Felipe]

They don't have a choice. Well, clearly.

[Doug DeMuro]

Right.

[Felipe]

Like they just don't have a choice but to find somewhere to be acquired, sell a lot of their.

[Doug DeMuro]

You would have to assume this would be tremendously advantageous for Honda financially. Otherwise they wouldn't consider it. They're probably in much better shape.

[Felipe]

I'd be a little surprised if these merger talks end up with anything.

[Doug DeMuro]

Oh, I don't know if they're. If they're announcing it or leaking it, but it's become very Widespread as the front page of Wall Street Journal yesterday. Yeah, it's pretty strategic then, then you got to assume that there are more.

[Felipe]

But I'd be a little surprised. I mean Honda very much wants and has already been partner Nissan on EV technology because Honda has very little of their own. That's probably their hope from some of that scale. Certainly their hope for some of that.

[Doug DeMuro]

But it is interesting to see how far some of these legacy automakers have, are finding themselves behind in EVs. Toyota claims they've done it intentionally, but China has very quickly, within three years gone from like they are buying western cars, they're buying you know, gas powered cars to like all EVs, all Chinese. And they have the benefit of the protectionist Chinese government. These guys. If you lose the Chinese market and they have, and will they have, you're in a really tough shape, you gotta figure out something else.

[Felipe]

And it's not just a Chinese market. Here in the US we don't see Chinese cars except for Chinese built Volvos. But outside of that you do. We were looking at Mexican market cars that were in San Diego yesterday and there were a lot of Chinese cars. So every other market outside of the U.S. the Chinese have infiltrated and they're scared. Yeah.

[Doug DeMuro]

Especially because the Chinese government is providing them with enormous incentives and benefits to be successful. And these old guys, not only are they not getting that, but they're behind in their technology. It's an interesting scenario.

[Felipe]

Now merger is not easy.

[Doug DeMuro]

Merger is not easy. Take forever. In fact I sit here and wonder what does that do? Is it really beneficial to get a larger, less dynamic company? Like hasn't Tesla's success been largely predicated on the fact that they're like svelte and quick and can make quick changes and do stuff. And here we want to combine these two like giant dinosaur companies.

[Felipe]

And yeah, like what do you, what do you do? Do you keep the Nissan brand and then Infiniti brand and then the Datsun sub brand and then Mitsubishi? Because that exists in other markets. Like what do you do with that merger? I think you want to do a lot of technology sharing, kind of like Stellantis has done. It's got but not very successful battery development.

[Doug DeMuro]

And I mean it's got to be all EVs. Gotta be just focus all on EVs.

[Felipe]

I'll be interested to see.

[Doug DeMuro]

Meanwhile this market is rejecting EVs.

[Kenneth]

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[Doug DeMuro]

Our next news story. Go to the.

[Felipe]

Go to the lamb that is Lambo.

[Doug DeMuro]

Yes.

[Kenneth]

So Lamborghini has announced, unsurprisingly, that they are pushing back their EV production till 2029. Now, they debuted a car, their. Their EV concept that's supposed to come out in 2028. However, they're like, maybe not.

[Doug DeMuro]

When do you think it'll actually come out?

[Kenneth]

This is when I think Lamborghini. This is precisely what I think. Something that's spitting flames and looks nuts.

[Doug DeMuro]

Spitting flames in a tunnel.

[Kenneth]

An antithetical to everything they stand for. They want noise and passion and you want it to have, like, machine guns that come out of the hood. Like, it's insane.

[Felipe]

You could do it in an ev and then you can sell a fire.

[Kenneth]

I gotta tell you, not excited.

[Doug DeMuro]

I'm supportive of EVs. This news story, I'm just like, hell yeah.

[Kenneth]

Hell yeah. Lamborghini's like, yup.

[Doug DeMuro]

You know I was ready to kind of start figuring out how to make the transition and all that. All these companies were doing it, they're all pushing back and I think that's probably for the better for the consumer. And by the way, I'm referring specifically to high performance sports car.

[Kenneth]

Exotic. Yes.

[Doug DeMuro]

I think that I'm driving this Macan EV right now. That car is great and it's better than the gas one. And for how most people use it, they should get an electric one. Right?

[Kenneth]

Right, totally. That I want to want a sports car. I want an experience and an engine is important to that. And so it's not a surprise that they're doing this, but it is notable. I mean that's a big sports car manufacturer, an important sports car manufacturer that continues to grow in importance, saying no.

[Doug DeMuro]

These companies have to be looking at the Pin and Frina Batista and the Rimac nevera, which have not been selling and which have been getting slaughtered on the used market. Plus they have to be looking at cars like the SF90 where they're getting slaughtered on the used market. Whereas four, five, eight speciales are double. They got to be looking at that and saying, okay, it's not just a couple of enthusiasts. The market is speaking.

[Kenneth]

Definitely. And mate, Rimac said that himself like that people just don't want the electric stuff for their sports cars if you're going to spend that kind of money to have an experience. But I agree, daily stuff, EVs no problem.

[Doug DeMuro]

No problem, whatever. Who cares? Traffic is traffic.

[Kenneth]

Traffic is traffic, right?

[Doug DeMuro]

Like we'd rather plug it in because then it doesn't emit and it doesn't cost money. But like this.

[Felipe]

Do you think that once they eventually go EV, the like exhaust manufacturers like Gintani and F5 will make just like flamethrowers for the back? The, the, there will be exhaust. They gotta do something.

[Doug DeMuro]

I gotta be honest with you. The, the pushbacks on timeline make me wonder when they will go ev. Like we're talking 29 now. Okay, that's five years. I'm only thinking about this from a self interested perspective. Okay. I'll be 41, 42. I mean, can we make this last until I'm out? I'm out of the situation, you know what I mean?

[Kenneth]

You just gotta get another, another 50, 60 years in their total. And you're, you're good.

[Doug DeMuro]

I'm good, right?

[Kenneth]

Yep.

[Felipe]

Not unlikely.

[Doug DeMuro]

Yeah, you do wonder what the exhaust manufacturers will do, but you also wonder if they'll never have to face it.

[Felipe]

I'd be shocked.

[Kenneth]

I Certainly mean that for sports. Yeah, I, I think we'll see. It'll be. It's. This will be an interesting thing to think back on 20 years from now. But I am, I am curious.

[Doug DeMuro]

20 years from now it'll be settled and it'll be like I wonder and I'm curious.

[Kenneth]

We'll know the direction. That's what's so exciting about right now because you don't really know which direction it's going to go. So I don't know. We'll see. But me, I'm hoping that V12 that spit flames stay around now.

[Doug DeMuro]

The Temeraro Uriari and John Temerion.

[Kenneth]

The John Temarion is that.

[Doug DeMuro]

That's a plug in hybrid?

[Kenneth]

Yes, I believe that's right.

[Doug DeMuro]

Yes.

[Kenneth]

Va.

[Doug DeMuro]

Okay. I mean it's not as bad as it's not a V10.

[Kenneth]

Like it's a hybrid is all that really matters. I agree. I think that all that really matters with that is that you have the sound in some capacity and you have that excitement.

[Doug DeMuro]

I agree. Generally, although we have SF90 values kind of are showing me at least that there is less of an interest in on the used market. There's less of an interest in the plug in stuff. Meanwhile, the big engine cars still seem.

[Felipe]

To be doing okay.

[Doug DeMuro]

What's doing. And Revolt is doing tremendously well. Which I assume is hybrid in some compounds.

[Kenneth]

I can't believe the number they've delivered.

[Doug DeMuro]

But I do think that getting big money.

[Kenneth]

I think the Ferrari, the SF90 was a big concern because Ferrari really shot themselves in the foot with how they did not support the LA Ferrari. At our own Ferrari do in San Diego. There are three of them in for service, I suspect all for $300,000 batteries that Ferrari doesn't support.

[Doug DeMuro]

He won. There's batteries.

[Kenneth]

Yeah.

[Doug DeMuro]

I don't know how much I'm allowed to disclose, but maybe Felipe could take it from here. Yeah.

[Felipe]

I really carefully watched the P1. You had a great. You had an Asamarn Valkyrie review that came out this week. You had a gray line in that about how much of more of an experience it is than the Pinofre Batista that you drove a few weeks ago. Yeah, it's notable.

[Doug DeMuro]

Yeah.

[Kenneth]

It's an experience. Even just watching it, it's like I would. It's just like. Yeah. Especially how the camera vibrates.

[Doug DeMuro]

I was astonished at the response to that video. People were really into it and I think that is sort of gives you eyesight into how people feel about crazy gas powered hyper supercar type things. In general, like, they still. That's still what gets emotion going for people.

[Kenneth]

I would rather have. I've said many times, I'd rather have a slow car that makes me feel like I'm going fast than an actually fast car.

[Doug DeMuro]

I think about 993s all the time. It's just the feel of it is great. And Porsche's like, well, gdk, that's why.

[Felipe]

Kenna wants a Viper.

[Kenneth]

Yeah, yeah.

[Doug DeMuro]

For that reason, it's a field car. All right, give us the next news story. I'm so happy for Lamborghini.

[Kenneth]

All right.

[Doug DeMuro]

And the rest of the world.

[Kenneth]

Ah, yes. So Ferrari has announced that they are going to be the engine supplier for the Cadillac Formula One team in 2026. Now, the interesting thing about that announcement is that Cadillac has not been Approved by the FIA to compete in Formula 1 in 2026 yet. Not yet. They're still in the process.

[Felipe]

They bought the team. Like, what does that mean?

[Kenneth]

You have to go through. It's a very arduous process to go through approval from the FIA to make sure you have the facilities to produce such a car that can do a whole bunch of other stuff. And it gets very political.

[Doug DeMuro]

As you can imagine, I ask a lot of questions. My assumption, okay, I see the. I don't know anything about Formula one. I see the car, okay, on the street, on the track. They call it a track.

[Felipe]

Very simple.

[Kenneth]

Well, some are tracks, some are street circuits, but we'll move on.

[Doug DeMuro]

The car says Aston Martin. My assumption is that Aston Martin makes the body, the engine, the steering wheel.

[Kenneth]

Not always. So there are a number of manufacturers, Ferrari, Mercedes Benz that come to mind immediately that supply engines to other teams so you can buy an engine and a gearbox, which is what Ferrari says they're going to supply from another manufacturer and put it in your own car.

[Doug DeMuro]

Now, is it not antithetical to the whole, like, Cadillac is going to compete, like carrying the torch for America in Formula one, except the entire powertrain, like, you know what I mean? Like, I want Cadillac to have a Cadillac, I want a black wing V8 and I don't know what the rules are.

[Kenneth]

Well, that won't happen. But as much as I wish that would happen, that will not.

[Doug DeMuro]

What's the. Like, I don't understand what. Why. So it wants to be in the F1 so badly that they are going to have to engine built by another manufacturer.

[Kenneth]

I mean, Red Bull's used a number of Honda. They then bought Honda's engines and build them in house. I mean, this has Happened with a lot of manufacturers.

[Doug DeMuro]

I know, but it's annoying to me. I wanted Cadillac to be ground up. I wanted Mario Andretti in there wrenching on the engines himself. I wanted Bob Lutz or his ghost, I'm not sure to be building engines in Detroit.

[Kenneth]

The reality of that is that it is incredibly expensive. And GM has come out and said they will make a formula one engine. They will get there. But to get off the ground and get things moving, Ferrari has agreed.

[Felipe]

Why not just wait to launch? So you've done it.

[Doug DeMuro]

You know what?

[Kenneth]

This is because if they want to get in the sport, now is the time to capitalize. It's very popular in America to be in Formula one. This is an American, a real American manufacturer. We had Haas F1, which ties to Gene Haas who does a lot of racing in America. But this is a real. This is gm.

[Felipe]

Do you think that Gideon Mary bar is worried that Cadillac will have closed as a brand by the time they actually start developing their own Cadillacs Real, dude, Cadillac's real.

[Doug DeMuro]

They got the.

[Felipe]

They got the XT6 and the Vistaq.

[Doug DeMuro]

It's Vistique, I think. But okay, so they're going to go racing Cadillac. When is this going to happen? 26.

[Kenneth]

They're saying 2026. Yeah. And Ferrari's made it very clear that it is contingent on Cadillac being approved to be in the Sport. But yeah, 2026 is when we should see that on the grid.

[Doug DeMuro]

This is the Honda prologue of Formula one. It is. They. They know they're going to do better things later, but they're just getting started.

[Kenneth]

Hey, man, you gotta start somewhere.

[Doug DeMuro]

You gotta start somewhere. I'm super into it. Who's gonna sponsor this thing? Can I?

[Kenneth]

You? If you have enough money to do.

[Doug DeMuro]

It, I suppose you have to like have like a decal on like right there, you know.

[Kenneth]

Well, in highly visible spots on television. A ton. But there are spots on a Formula one car that are a lot less expensive than you might think.

[Doug DeMuro]

Yeah.

[Kenneth]

But none, nonetheless, I get for eight.

[Doug DeMuro]

Grand something really small.

[Kenneth]

It would be great to have like a tiny. You are tiny noodle.

[Doug DeMuro]

I have decided that if not a formula one fan. Never been a formula fan. Have decided that I am going to cheer on Cadillac in Formula one. I'm going to cheer on the American brand.

[Kenneth]

I got you to watch Formula one for even one season. I would be so happy.

[Doug DeMuro]

Well, now. Now it's relevant to me. You know, before it was a bunch of Europeans out there doing stuff. I don't know what's going on 20.

[Kenneth]

Is a big deal next year because there's a huge regulation change that comes that year. So it will shake. Shake up the grid and we'll see what's going to happen.

[Doug DeMuro]

You know what they should do for regulations? Have no regulations. That's the race series that I.

[Kenneth]

The problem is then they have self adjusting the suspension and the car kind of drives it.

[Doug DeMuro]

If.

[Kenneth]

If there were no regulations, they probably would. If manufacturers want to get rid of drivers altogether, let the cars drive themselves.

[Felipe]

Well, that seems not fun.

[Doug DeMuro]

I would.

[Kenneth]

I would precisely that they tried this like, recently with. With like AI driven form. It was a disaster. I don't even think the cars completed a lap. I don't remember exactly what circuit it was at, but they attempted this and it was funny.

[Doug DeMuro]

AI.

[Felipe]

I mean, they could do it.

[Kenneth]

I know it's a single track.

[Felipe]

Like, what's the fun in that?

[Doug DeMuro]

We'll have this figured out within a couple of days.

[Kenneth]

I've said many times, like, I. I root. You root for the driver and the team. Like, that's what you want to see.

[Felipe]

Win at that point. Just so you can track in the ground and just have it follow that like.

[Doug DeMuro]

Or the whole thing. Have the whole thing be virtual. Why have you run the race? Well, they do that.

[Kenneth]

They do. And that the most boring thing in the world to watch. But yeah, computer game racing. Yeah, they do esports. Like for form, like, not for Formula one.

[Doug DeMuro]

Formula one at any time.

[Felipe]

In theory.

[Kenneth]

We will have a brief story. So Max Verstappen was taking part. They did like a version of that for Lal for 24 hours. You were going to drive digitally Formula. And Max Verstappen, who just sits and does this all day, that he just loves simulators, took part in it. And they had so many, like, glitches where and when the system would glitch, it would send you back to the pits. So he'd be like, around a lap and then all of a sudden be in the pits. And he's like, guys eventually got so fed up with it, he was like, I'm done. That's enough. I've had enough of it. He was like 10 hours into it, he was like, I'm finished. This is ridiculous. And I'm done. Wild stuff.

[Doug DeMuro]

All right, let's move on to talking about cars. We got to talk about cars now. We generally talk about cars on the podcast, but for some reason there's a segment called Talk Cars where we talk about cars. Yeah, I want to talk about the first thing I want to talk about. I didn't send you the picture, but I can describe it. I damaged a press car yesterday.

[Kenneth]

Oh, no.

[Doug DeMuro]

For the first time. Not the first time I've done this many time. No, I've actually only done it three.

[Felipe]

Or four times and been accused of it a few other times and then been accused.

[Doug DeMuro]

I don't even want to get into the McLaren incident. Been accused of it a few other times.

[Felipe]

But you do hit a mailbox.

[Doug DeMuro]

I lightly curved the wheel on my back. Now this is the biggest dam. I've never crashed a press car, I've never damaged press car. I've never hit anyone in the press car. Never hit anything with a press car.

[Kenneth]

Never been in an accident, never seriously damaged a.

[Doug DeMuro]

Never any real damage inch. Okay. But I've curbed two or three wheels and then I scraped the. I scratched the roof of a Subaru BRZ once and that's like it, that's like how I had like there was like something I had on it and I guess I didn't lift it up. I like pulled it off and it was, I was astonished that it scratched. But we can have a discussion about Subaru paint another time. But regardless, the big issue here is that the Maybach was supposed to come to me six weeks ago, but the wheel was damaged when the car was in transit to me by the Trust Car company.

[Kenneth]

Are you kidding?

[Doug DeMuro]

And so it, and then they had to order the wheel. It took them six weeks for the wheel to come. And then I damaged the wheel again on the last day I had it while I was parking it, just for the press car people to be in the spot for them to pick up.

[Felipe]

I mean, how, how noticeably?

[Doug DeMuro]

Well, the black wheels and so it's like scratch silver.

[Felipe]

Ah, get a Sharpie.

[Doug DeMuro]

That particular car, I think, I think they'll just paint it like a wheel wasn't so dam, like it wasn't any real. But I'm very damaging press car is very annoying to me. Other journalists, I'm told, do it. And when I worked at Porsche, we heard some stories. I, I, our PR team told us there was a journalist who rolled a Cayenne Turbo at Cayenne.

[Felipe]

Oh, man, I'm stunned of just one person.

[Doug DeMuro]

I have never had any of that stuff happen. I've never been in a real accident. But scratch the wheel. Oh, I'm very sorry. Right, right.

[Felipe]

What are the other cars?

[Doug DeMuro]

You scratch the wheels of a Ferrari GTC4 Lusso a long time ago, 10 years ago probably. I can't remember a little stuff. One time Noodle jumped into A BMW I had and, like. And, like, ruffled a leather center console cover. I didn't. It wasn't inviting him in. I had the door open and he jumped in and.

[Kenneth]

Yep, he's done that little stuff. He's jumped into my BMW. As a matter of fact, the press.

[Doug DeMuro]

Car companies assume this is going to happen. Like, and the press cars in Germany, they find a new driver basically every week. And the goal is to drive them hard and drive them a lot. But I still feel terrible when I do it because I never do it.

[Felipe]

I will say, the number of times that it's been damaged in transit to you still outnumbers.

[Doug DeMuro]

I frequently will get a call being like, we were going to deliver this today and unfortunately we had an accident. Scratched a wheel, it broke down, somebody else crashed it. Yeah, that happens. Not infrequently. The McLaren thing that happened was I got a call, the McLaren something or other, I don't remember, I don't care. Came to me for a day. I drove it to the office, filmed the video, drove it home. I don't. Other journalists, when they get a McLaren, they like spend the whole day. You know, this is like their life for that day. They call their friends, they get them. For me, it's. I got other cars like this. I don't really care. And I'm not a big McLaren guy. Drove to the office, drove it home seven miles, right? And I get a call, yeah, the underside is scraped. I'm like, I'll be honest with you. I have these cars personally and I drove that thing seven miles. I didn't scrape the other side. You could blame whoever you want, but that wasn't me. And I don't know what happened. I just didn't accept it. I just was like, nope, nope, it was not me. This episode is brought to you by Manscaped, the global leader in men's lifestyle and grooming. Every man knows the unbeatable feeling of a fresh barbershop shave. And the holidays are here. Time for you to look your best and win best groomed at a family dinner. You may have noticed my recent dabbling with facial hair. Well, like choosing a vehicle, there are many options out there for shaving products. I choose the Manscaped Chairman Pro Package, the newest offering from Manscaped. Trust me, it's like Rudolph for your face, guiding you to a smooth irritation. Free shave. Whether you're after that daily silky smooth finish or you prefer to maintain a rugged five o'clock shadow. This has you covered. You have the SkinSafe four blade foil for that close, smooth shave when you're looking to go completely clean. And you have the SkinSafe stubble trimmer for when you want to keep a bit of that rugged look. Both heads are designed with SkinSafe technology to help reduce razor burn and irritation so your skin feels smooth and comfortable after every shave, reducing redness or discomfort. Plus, one of my favorite quirks and features of the Chairman Pro is that it's waterproof. Yes, you can use it right in the shower. And also it simplifies cleanup, too. Just a quick rinse under the sink and you're all set. Get the Chairman Pro today and experience a shave that's as smooth as you deserve. Get 20% off and free shipping with the code carsandscaped.com that's 20% off plus free shipping with the code [e-mail]. okay, Filippo, give us one of your chalk cards. Hours.

[Felipe]

Yeah. Can we talk about more about the Valkyrie? I watched that video last night at home, sitting on the couch.

[Kenneth]

You want to talk about the Valkyrie?

[Doug DeMuro]

He will watch my videos if it's like an electric minivan. Yeah.

[Kenneth]

Yeah.

[Felipe]

This is the only supercar one that I've. I haven't watched that one. I saw the car here. There's the only one that I've watched in a long time. But, like, the. I was told ahead of time we were trying to figure out what to do with the camera for the. The end car and the audio.

[Doug DeMuro]

Yeah.

[Felipe]

And I'm glad we left it because it, like, unfocuses and refocuses based on vibration. How was that experience? You sent us and our friend group some photos while you were filming it. And it's very clear that it, like, I feel like the video didn't capture how insane that car is.

[Doug DeMuro]

Somehow people I thought would make fun of me, and maybe they did. I don't really read the comments, but people I thought would make fun of me for comparing it to a race car at the highest level. I think I said that, or I did in the voiceover that we were going to put over the audio because you couldn't hear it. Like driving a Formula one car because it's like, you've never driven. You wouldn't know. I mean, I can't be much crazier than that. We were going 12,000 rpm. Everything was shaking. You couldn't hear a thing. It was. It was absolute visceral insanity. In your mind. I got out of that car and I was, like, panting, you know, like I was crazy. Totally, totally unbelievable. Experience really, really, really, really insane. And we're driving that down Newport coast there.

[Felipe]

Yeah.

[Doug DeMuro]

And a guy in like a C63 sees and is like flipping out. Imagine you're just cruising.

[Kenneth]

I'd lose it. That's what you hope to see.

[Doug DeMuro]

Driving around one plates for just like. Like seven minutes, you know? And this like. Yeah. It's like imagine we would have. Oh, I would have freaked totally.

[Kenneth]

Even he might have. It turns out for sure.

[Doug DeMuro]

I was surprised at the response. I'm still getting text message with people. I can't believe that video. It's so amazing. It was cool. I didn't think that people were so excited about that car as they are.

[Felipe]

Nobody knows, like, they exist. They're in the ether.

[Doug DeMuro]

But, like, nobody knows what to.

[Felipe]

What it's like. No.

[Doug DeMuro]

Yeah.

[Felipe]

Where does it. Can the. I have an important question. Consumer question. The top can be removed. Moved, right?

[Doug DeMuro]

Yeah. We didn't do it.

[Felipe]

Can it be stowed anywhere?

[Doug DeMuro]

I can't imagine. Because there's no storage. Really.

[Felipe]

I look to your videos for answers to questions such as this.

[Doug DeMuro]

You know, we were running up on daylight. I. I did everything. If you. I'm sure you watched the Quirk Seg. The drive is cool. That's what everybody's been talking about. The Quirk segment. I did everything.

[Felipe]

Yeah.

[Doug DeMuro]

I'd like to see other people do.

[Felipe]

So much for where the roof panels go.

[Doug DeMuro]

You know what I also did, which is really annoying. In order to film a bunch of different things, I had to climb in and out of that car. Truly probably 25 times. It was hell. You got to take off your shoes. You have to. People are making fun of me. Apparently in the supercar ride video for having my shoes off. There's. There's no option.

[Felipe]

Is it full well, that small?

[Doug DeMuro]

Well. And also you're stepping on. You're stepping on expensive stuff. And so, like, I'd rather do that with my socks than with shoes. So you're. That's a thing. And. Yeah, it's really tight in that car. So, like getting rid of anything you can to make yourself fit in. By the end, I was like thinking to myself, I hope I never see an Aston Martin Valkyrie.

[Felipe]

And you just. You won't.

[Doug DeMuro]

So you're gonna.

[Kenneth]

That's true. Then you're just developing more. And look at you. You're gonna turn into a race car fan. You're just developing more and more of an appreciation for what? Race car crazy. Tea time. Getting in and out.

[Felipe]

You love the P1GTR.

[Doug DeMuro]

I love the P1GTR. I don't know that I would say that I loved the Valkyrie. I would say that it was an experience like few others. I loved it for what it did. Like, if you wanted that, it delivers it better than any car I have. Have ever been in. I don't know that I would want it personally.

[Kenneth]

I'm not saying you do. I'm saying you're developing an appreciation from these experiences.

[Doug DeMuro]

Yeah.

[Kenneth]

Not that you have to have them. Not that you would want to drive a Formula one car, but you're developing.

[Doug DeMuro]

It was definitely quite a thing to experience. And it definitely. It has this roots in Formula one because of how it was developed and who it's developed by. Yes. Use. I'm sure Formula 1 cars are more insane, but like, this was. Well, this was it.

[Kenneth]

The big difference is Formula. I mean, the era of that car is exceptional. But yeah, Formula One car is complete. I mean, generates 6G.

[Doug DeMuro]

Yeah.

[Kenneth]

Around the corners, which is.

[Doug DeMuro]

Imagine you have to be a real pro.

[Felipe]

I think on Newport Coast Boulevard.

[Kenneth]

You get absolutely, definitely, definitely pulling.

[Doug DeMuro]

I don't know if we left it in. I didn't watch the drive, but. But there was one point where I shifted as high as I could. And he supercar runs like, you know, you shifted at 85. I mean, it's nothing. That's a. That's two thirds of the way up the rev range. You know, it'd be like shifting incredible GT at 4400.

[Kenneth]

Now imagine doing that with a manual and a car called the T50.

[Felipe]

Know that you want to, but I think we talked enough about the T top five zero last week.

[Kenneth]

That's an interesting and more refined experience nonetheless.

[Felipe]

Anyway, refined as a word of reason, for anything Valkyrie related.

[Kenneth]

The T50.

[Doug DeMuro]

Oh, I know.

[Felipe]

But refinement have made it better.

[Kenneth]

The T50, the Valkyrie. For what A car he actually wants to enjoy. Yes, that's my point.

[Doug DeMuro]

I mean, the Valkyrie, one of its benefits is that it is so race car like. And that's one of the things I liked about P1 GTR and BAC mono is that even though I'm not into those cars, if I had lots of money, I'd probably have a P1 GTR because just that it was just so unrefined that the, like, the character of that was cool.

[Kenneth]

Have you done a Vulcan?

[Doug DeMuro]

No.

[Kenneth]

Interesting.

[Doug DeMuro]

No, but I mean, that's.

[Kenneth]

I think that's just much harder to drive. We had one at the exotic car dealership I worked at, and watching one of the guys who had driven race cars like move it around is hilarious. He stalled it like 25 times. Like it is like. Because the clutch, it's an extract gearbox. You hear go right in the gear and it just wants to. It just wants to go.

[Doug DeMuro]

Yeah. The Valkyrie, for all of its insanity is actually a car you can use. Like it has a regular transmission. To the extent that it just. You put it driving, it goes. And like it has a rear view mirror camera and it has like a radio. Like it's a car that is as far as crazy stuff goes. It's like usable crazy stuff.

[Kenneth]

Right.

[Doug DeMuro]

Ish.

[Kenneth]

And Valkyrie is a dedicated like track car.

[Doug DeMuro]

It really is some made for roadies, but. Yeah. You mean the Vulcan.

[Kenneth]

Yeah, Vulcan is. Yes.

[Doug DeMuro]

Yeah. I think they were all track cars. Maybe there were some.

[Kenneth]

I think that they couldn't be used a lot of tracks as they exceed the noise limit because it is unbelievable how loud their car is. But anyway, a really cool experience and a great video.

[Doug DeMuro]

I'm thrilled at the response. I thought it was really cool. It was interesting to see that because I don't do a lot of hypercar videos anymore because a lot of the. I've done them all, you know, and. And now it's a lot of EVs and stuff and some of those get really positive like get big shoes.

[Felipe]

The ID Buzz did well from like a view perspective. People wanted to see it.

[Doug DeMuro]

Yeah.

[Felipe]

But.

[Doug DeMuro]

But I know you never get. When you do the ID buzz and the Rivian R2, it's a lot of interested consumers and it's a lot of, you know, people who are in the market or just want to see. It's cool to see the response to like a holy crap, this is insane video is kind of. That's kind of.

[Felipe]

I think that no other video of yours has shown quite how insane it is.

[Doug DeMuro]

Like, which is good because it's actually hard to describe. I really think for that car it's like hard to put into words.

[Felipe]

Yeah.

[Doug DeMuro]

No one else has ever had the experience of driving car shifts at 12 000. So like I can't explain it.

[Felipe]

No.

[Doug DeMuro]

I've tried for years to explain why the Countach is so special. And I think it still falls on deaf ears a lot of the time because it's hard to explain.

[Felipe]

Right.

[Doug DeMuro]

But that video kind of did a good job illustrating.

[Felipe]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Doug DeMuro]

All right, Ken. And tell us about your. We're not going to listen to. I won't accept anything about you 500 a bar potentially buying cars. Come on.

[Kenneth]

No. So the car is sitting there and we can see it you are. You are not have no permission to talk about. It's on our list of things to talk about. He added. And that is.

[Felipe]

I said nothing. But let's talk about the Cayenne Turbo and your desire to have one.

[Kenneth]

Yeah, so. So I do really want a daily and I'm trying to decide what to get because I'm very precious about my car as you can imag. And so I'm trying to figure out like a Cayenne Turbo seems like the right answer. But I had been thinking was this based.

[Doug DeMuro]

Did you come to this conclusion because of our.

[Kenneth]

Oh, yes. And just like driving around the city and going through dips and parking and looking back at it, like turning around, it's like, man, still looks like a nice car.

[Felipe]

You can now get a cayenne base for $10,000 or an SE Hybrid for 12.

[Kenneth]

I love the niceties of the turbo.

[Felipe]

Or an SE Hybrid with the option for 13.

[Doug DeMuro]

I will say an S. Even the S from that era was. Had 400 horsepower. Pretty. Pretty stout.

[Kenneth]

Pretty solid.

[Doug DeMuro]

Yes. V8.

[Felipe]

Everything you described so far. Just there's suspension travel and it looks like a Cayenne.

[Kenneth]

That's so every kay drives well. Like the Cayenne Turbo drives great. Like I really put around some corners at speed and it is lovely. Drives very nicely. But my. My point is like, would it be better for me to consider leasing a daily that like just I don't have to worry about maintenance. That's the big fear with the Cayenne Turbo. They are reliable cars. But consumables are pretty expensive.

[Felipe]

Yeah.

[Kenneth]

And so. And you know, it's like the problem is something that weighs.

[Doug DeMuro]

I don't think you could ever lease anything that's anywhere near as cool as the Cayenne Turbo for what the Cayenne Turbo will cost you to own. So let's say the Cayenne Turbo costs even being pretty liberal with it, like four grand a year in. In repairs and maintenance. I can't imagine it would be that.

[Kenneth]

I can't.

[Doug DeMuro]

I don't think if you get a nice one.

[Kenneth]

Yeah.

[Doug DeMuro]

Maybe five grand.

[Felipe]

I don't know will round a bunch is a little bit over 300.

[Kenneth]

I think that's more than enough.

[Doug DeMuro]

That's the thing. What 300 bucks a month doesn't base.

[Felipe]

It for an EV6. A Nissan Ariya.

[Kenneth]

Yeah, that's the thing I rang into. It's like. And to be honest with you, it's like I've considered. It's like, well, do I just want kind of a normalish car to do. And the answer is no. I'm a car enthusiast. Couldn't be in anything boring. It has to be something that like I am excited about, even if it's a car I don't care as much about in terms of how I'm precious with it. If I. I just has to be engaging, exciting.

[Doug DeMuro]

I think you would be bored if you went out and leased an Aria for 300amonth. Yeah. You'd, you'd. You'd save money on not using your M5 as much and save fuel and all that. But like at what personal cost?

[Kenneth]

Right. And EVs don't fit into my life because I don't have a place to charge it at where I live.

[Doug DeMuro]

Place to charge. Don't really need the space. Like don't really need like it's nice.

[Kenneth]

For the emissions and really driving around like where we live, like in kind of in the city. It's like it's a little bit, it's a little bit nice. And the silence and serenity of an EV is. Is appealing when you have something a little bit more visceral.

[Doug DeMuro]

Yeah. Not that that car is definitely visceral into your lifestyle. And there are positives like you wouldn't have to pay for fuel, but Cayenne Turbo is a Cayenne Turbo.

[Kenneth]

I know it gets the same fuel economy that the. That does like around town, which is.

[Felipe]

Not if you drive it like Doug does in a fuel economy challenge.

[Kenneth]

Was impressive. I thought about that. Someone consider of course like I don't.

[Felipe]

Really have to use by that metric. Just buy a Corvette.

[Doug DeMuro]

Yeah.

[Kenneth]

So I, I think the hunt for a Cayenne Turbos like will commence shortly. But you know, because other than he would make fun of me for it a lot. And I do like the Macan. I do. I love the way they look.

[Doug DeMuro]

I would make fun of you, but Macan turbo is pretty damn good. It's very athletic. And Con Turbo has pdk whereas Cayenne always had tip.

[Kenneth]

Chronic always had tip. Yeah. For towing reasons is my understanding. But I think. Yeah, I think the reason not. I mean my friend Nick had one and had just tremend issues which is. I know maybe not as common, but the Cayenne the way I view it is like the Cayenne is developed a little bit more as a solid platform because it had to be used for Bentley, had to be used for Lamborghini. It had to be used for a number of other things in Macan. Less so. And I think it's just a less expensive. They Put a little bit less R and D into it maybe.

[Doug DeMuro]

And that's why there's issues just based on personal information. No, I Cayenne. Those Cayenne turbos do seem to be pretty reliable.

[Kenneth]

They seem to be reliable.

[Doug DeMuro]

You get One of those 70,000 miles, you get like a 12 or 13. 70,000 miles. Miles. I think you drive that car for a long time.

[Felipe]

That's probably a 25.

[Doug DeMuro]

And that's a 25 car. 30 for.

[Felipe]

For 12, 13.

[Doug DeMuro]

Oh, he's out of his mind. He's crazy.

[Kenneth]

For. I have, I have looked for one with reasonable mileage in a. In a color that isn't black because so many of them are awesome. I kind of want that exact spec.

[Felipe]

Well, it's going to be maybe one by.

[Kenneth]

Yeah, 140, 000 miles. It's supposed to be like, well, all right. I'd like to get one with less miles than that just because again, like maintenance costs are what are on my mind because like, like I put the money into the car. I want to have like perfect in terms of maintenance and like, I kind of would like to not be doing that the next one.

[Doug DeMuro]

So I'm interested. I would love it. I also think you can get in and out of it no problem without losing money.

[Kenneth]

I. Or not. Not a ton of money. Yeah, I don't think so.

[Felipe]

But there's so many cool cars for 25 grand.

[Doug DeMuro]

Yeah, but not for what I want for a daily. That can do everything. He can off road it, he can luxury it, he can drive it fast.

[Felipe]

It is everything.

[Doug DeMuro]

He can enjoy it. Like when you look at a Kayan turbo, when I look at one, when I see one on the street, street, I'm always like, even in 2011 or 12, I'm still like, that is a cool car.

[Kenneth]

I. I totally agree. And I was just even 5 driving that one around. Listen to watercolors. Like driving at night, man. Oh.

[Doug DeMuro]

Some would wonder if you even need any 39M5.

[Kenneth]

Oh, absolutely.

[Doug DeMuro]

Okay, let's do a quick market report brought to you by Cars and Bids. Actually, it's brought to you by the Cars and Bids app. The Cars and Bids app.

[Felipe]

They just buy cars and Bids now.

[Doug DeMuro]

Just like Cars and Bids, but an app form.

[Felipe]

By the way, we have 700 something five star reviews. People are loving that.

[Doug DeMuro]

We only have 700 five star reviews, folks. We need to get it up to 800. I don't know what's good or what's that.

[Felipe]

Okay, the app is good.

[Kenneth]

I'll tell you what's yeah, the app is good.

[Felipe]

Go download it.

[Kenneth]

Thank you.

[Doug DeMuro]

There's not much to discuss. Marketboard, because I really want to get to questions because I love the question segment. Oh my God. What is this Hellcat thing? We have, we got a. We got a Hellcat jailbreak convertible live on the site. Filippo, if you don't buy this so.

[Kenneth]

Cool, I'll be mad at you.

[Doug DeMuro]

Where is 700 Western?

[Felipe]

700 horsepower.

[Doug DeMuro]

So cool.

[Felipe]

There's only one market report thing I want to talk.

[Doug DeMuro]

Okay, I'll do one of mine and you do one of yours. Lotus Evora, pull it up. Oh, yeah, I want to talk about the Evora because on the subject of cars that are getting cheaper, which been a topic we've talked about a lot lately and it's done well on these pod shorts that we've been doing. Evora is getting cheaper, but I bet it's flooring.

[Felipe]

Yeah, Yeah.

[Doug DeMuro]

I can't imagine that a 2010 with 23,000 miles and a manual gets too much cheaper than 36. And then you start to realize the Evora has the famous Elise thing. Like the Elise, you could buy one for 30, sell one for 30, now it's maybe 35. Evora is the same deal. Toyota powertrain still stout and they're getting to that point where they're probably floored and you can buy and sell and get out of it for the same number. And because they're reliable, you probably don't have to put much money into it. And these cars have always kind of been used car market bargains. And I think that at this price, 35, 36, I am guessing that this is about where they stay and then they become real used car market bargains when you don't even have to factor in depreciation or much maintenance or repair.

[Kenneth]

Well, I. The engine may be reliable, but I'm concerned about the other aspects of the car that are not engine related. Like the English and their electronics are not well known for being okay, the.

[Doug DeMuro]

Engine makes the car go. All the other stuff is just along for the ride. So like, what do you tell me, the door is going to fall off?

[Kenneth]

Nah. No, but I mean it car, you know, the electronic system fails and strands you somewhere. It's like, I mean, that's a realistic concern with a Lotus. You know what it stands for? Lots of trouble. Usually serious.

[Doug DeMuro]

Lots of tremendous, usable, usable supercar. Yeah, there you go.

[Kenneth]

Nice. Lots of tremendous, usable, super.

[Doug DeMuro]

No, I, you, you might be right. However, they do get miles. We sell them with miles.

[Kenneth]

We. That is true. Sometimes that is sometimes people use them, people drive them. Some might have miles.

[Doug DeMuro]

14,000.

[Felipe]

Well that's. That's a three year old car. Sort by highest mouth.

[Doug DeMuro]

Some of them do get miles. 88, 88, 000 miles.

[Kenneth]

Look at it in yellow.

[Doug DeMuro]

I've never heard of anybody. I've had buddies that Ivor's and Elise's never heard of anybody who had electrical issues. The Elise has that body problem where the whole car is the body and if you like touch it and breathe on it, you gotta replace.

[Felipe]

You would scratch it and then have to replace it.

[Doug DeMuro]

I ran into a tree branch and they told me I had to replace the entire clamshell. Which I did not. No. And the tree branch was like the size of like your face.

[Felipe]

That's a pretty big tree branch.

[Doug DeMuro]

No dude, your face is little.

[Kenneth]

One of our editors, Nick is actually is heavily considering an evora to replace his996. And it's an appealing car.

[Doug DeMuro]

It's an appealing car. I think they're really, really cool. I think they're Florida value. I think they look really nice.

[Kenneth]

I. This yellow just that.

[Doug DeMuro]

You know what I like go back. There's that silver one in the corner down here. That one looks.

[Felipe]

Yeah.

[Kenneth]

On silver wheels. Yeah. Really good wheels.

[Doug DeMuro]

Really nice. Can I have one of those?

[Kenneth]

You know, it's a shame that only 13 years after this came out where you're like, you know, the M4 is pretty good because when it came out it was like this is expensive and who wants that? Getting a lease.

[Doug DeMuro]

That's Lotus's problem. These are better used cars than they are new cars. Like no, you know, nobody wants to spend 90 plus. Camry engine, you know, all the things that were bad about it as a new car kind of start to become appealing as a used car. It's all. It's got a Camry engine, four seats. Oh, that's okay.

[Kenneth]

So maybe Amira one day also get. They all just like, they all just live at 30.

[Doug DeMuro]

No. I think it will become desirable as it ages. It's just a hard sell at 90 plus for a lot of people. I actually think it's pretty desirable.

[Kenneth]

I think it's a very desirable car, I think.

[Doug DeMuro]

And I thought that about a 4 too. Honestly. Honestly. But it's even more appealing here where it's 30 to 40 grand and probably Florida value.

[Kenneth]

If only Filippo would get a car. You get one of these like, like.

[Felipe]

I. I've said this before talk about it.

[Doug DeMuro]

The hard part about it is is that Filippo's hung up on the Purchase price. And I've begged him to understand that it's about total cost of ownership. He could buy and sell the car, get out of it in a year, spend no money. And he's like, no, it's too expensive. And so instead he's going to get something dumb that loses value.

[Felipe]

I'm probably not gonna.

[Kenneth]

I wish we had a tag to look at repeat offenders cars. We've had multiple times on cars. It's a show himself him like it sold for this and it sold for this.

[Doug DeMuro]

You know what you can do. Click on. Recently ended. I I this hit me yesterday. The reason I came up. We sold this 32,000 miles to 41 to 36,000. 20,000 miles. Go to the very bottom. The very first Evoras we sold like this one. $34,000. Like they, they've lost a little value but like not significant value. And it's clear that they're not going to really be losing much more. Obviously the ones that sold for 86.

[Kenneth]

Yeah.

[Felipe]

The VT for 400 at the time, whatever.

[Doug DeMuro]

But now they're getting cheaper and so you can. They're getting older.

[Felipe]

Right? Two years ago, 39.9.

[Kenneth]

Exactly when they were different.

[Doug DeMuro]

These are Florida and they're cool if you want to get a Cayman but you, you've already had a Cayman. This is the kind of car to get. What's your market?

[Felipe]

Can you get a Lucid Air Sapphire, please?

[Doug DeMuro]

Yeah. Let's talk Sapphire.

[Felipe]

All right. We sold a Lucid air Sapphire for 200 grand stickers. 250 stickers.

[Doug DeMuro]

250.

[Felipe]

We did a bunch of. There are no public Sapphire results before. Before this one. So we did a bunch of research and like our team came up with a the because we went too deep in this with a form of like, how much do other lucid models appreciate? Which is a lot. So that put the value of this after a year and whatever miles it has at like 160. That's like this is exciting to me because it shows that the super high performance ones are still getting enough recognition that they're not following that same appreciation curve.

[Doug DeMuro]

Taycans are. I was shocked by this. This is better.

[Felipe]

I was shocked by this also. It has miles. 3,000 something.

[Doug DeMuro]

I will say. Say 3,300. I will say this is a more special car than a Taycan Turbo or Turbo. Those are very available. I have still not seen a Lucid Air Sapphire on the road.

[Felipe]

Only when you had it here for as a tour.

[Doug DeMuro]

And I see lucid air is pretty common.

[Kenneth]

I see him every Day. Yeah, truly.

[Doug DeMuro]

But Sapphire is really special.

[Felipe]

I legitimately think it's one of the coolest ones. The model has plaid held value for a little bit and then, yeah, kind of depreciated. This has, I think more that's special about it. It that based on this result is.

[Doug DeMuro]

Helping true super sports car. Everybody who super performance sedan, sport, luxury sport. Everybody who reviewed it was very positive, including me. I loved it. I thought it was absolutely amazing to drive and use. I feel that way about all the lucid airs. But the Sapphire is really cool. Production is somewhat limited.

[Felipe]

So yeah, now, I mean the person did lose $1,600 per mile they drove, but that's a different issue.

[Doug DeMuro]

But that's kind of true of all $250,000. I mean s class is everything in that segment. The Sapphire definitely did hold value better than a regular.

[Felipe]

Better than any of us expected. And we're thrilled to see it.

[Doug DeMuro]

Yeah. Okay, it's time for questions, questions, questions. Now remember, you too can ask us a question. You too. If Bono asked a question, you two.

[Kenneth]

Could ask any questions they want.

[Felipe]

If Bono wants to text Doug directly, we'll put his phone number up.

[Doug DeMuro]

Bono had a quattroporte like Nick has.

[Kenneth]

Oh, in period. That's so cool.

[Doug DeMuro]

I was reading an interview where he talked about it. He said one of the things he liked about it is four door car and they named it the four door. This is only the Italian.

[Kenneth]

We should do a video talking about like musicians, cars like that or like famous people. Well, I was thinking Rod Stewart and all of his Ferraris. Nick Mason.

[Felipe]

Great. Can I Nick his video?

[Doug DeMuro]

Thank you.

[Kenneth]

Nick's good.

[Doug DeMuro]

Okay. So anyway, questions. You can ask us questions. You click on carsandbids.com, click on it, you go to the community tab and then there will be a post there saying, hey, ask us questions. This was the special holiday questions which we're going to have next week.

[Felipe]

Next week.

[Doug DeMuro]

Because next week we're not doing like a news podcast. We're recording it early and we're just going to do questions questions which we've already taken. So anyway, we're going to do this week's questions now. So let's go. First question is from Rodney. This is a question we get with sort of like it with some frequency, but I want to cover it again. Of all the auctions on cars and bids over the years that have been completed, what were the craziest buyers and sellers that you've had to deal with and what ended up happening with those auctions there's never anything, like, too crazy. One dude sued us in small claims court.

[Kenneth]

Remember that?

[Felipe]

I do.

[Doug DeMuro]

And we defended and the judge was like, you're an insane person. Get out.

[Felipe]

The guy wanted the buyer to sue, send him Amazon gift cards. It was something truly insane. And we were like, no, we're not. We're not.

[Doug DeMuro]

That. That was probably one of them. But like, I. Nothing's ever been, like, insane. Has any.

[Felipe]

There's been a lot of insane people.

[Doug DeMuro]

Yeah.

[Felipe]

Because humans, turns out, like canon, are insane.

[Doug DeMuro]

Right.

[Felipe]

But nothing that's like, coming immediately to mind.

[Doug DeMuro]

My Land Cruiser too. But I don't. I can't think of any. I can't think of any really insane situations that have at least come to my attention. You've probably seen them. But if.

[Felipe]

I have seen a lot, but none.

[Doug DeMuro]

Are, like, story worthy crazy.

[Felipe]

Yeah.

[Doug DeMuro]

It's usually like, okay, this isn't. I'm crazy. And here's what I might take. And I'm. The seller's crazy and the buyer's crazy.

[Kenneth]

And we got a. I remember early on some of the buyers remorse was some of my favorite where someone would say, oh, I left my laptop open at Starbucks and somebody entered a bit. It's like, all right, all right. Your wife found out about the car. She's not happy. And you're walking it back.

[Felipe]

There was a dude that bid on and bought a Focus rs. And then he comes to a couple weeks later into the. I. I have a lot of back issues and I thought that this car would be perfect for me based on all the forums. And it turns out that I can't drive it. Can I list it back on cars and beds? Which isn't that crazy. I don't remember.

[Doug DeMuro]

This is weird. We do have people turn around cars quick.

[Felipe]

My answer would have been, the Focus Rust is still for sale. Go to your Ford dealer before you bid. Maybe find out if it's a car for you before you send it.

[Doug DeMuro]

That is always something that really annoys us. We do get people sometimes being like, this car had this or that or often. Sometimes it's stuff that was disclosed.

[Felipe]

It's like.

[Doug DeMuro]

And then. But they see it the last day of the auction, like, oh, I got a bid. Then they bid and they're like, this. It has this scratch. It's like, I can see the scratch and all the pictures.

[Kenneth]

You always do your due diligence.

[Doug DeMuro]

The reason the auction runs for a week is not because we think bids will be coming in for a week. The actual auction runs for five minutes. Let's be clear. The week is so that you can call the dude, you can send pictures to go look at the car, you can have a PPI done, you can get your financing in order. That stuff.

[Felipe]

Nothing. I. I wish there was something that I came to mind as like a really great story, but it's just normal people dealing with transactions.

[Doug DeMuro]

Yeah, I think that's what it is. It's a lot of normal people dealing with transactions and the pros and cons that.

[Felipe]

And as I tell a lot of people, then we can move on from this. For a lot of folks, most expensive purchase you'll ever make is your house. Probably second most expensive is probably a car. Like second most expensive category is probably a car. It's scary for people and so you don't always get the best of humans. But then we're. We have a team that's there literally to walk you through how to do it. And that usually works out.

[Doug DeMuro]

We have really good support. Really good support stuff.

[Kenneth]

They' whole purpose is to share all the experience. We've gained over almost 25,000 auctions with people to maximize their value for cars.

[Doug DeMuro]

And they do it legitimately. Well, truly. Okay, next question comes from I Am Him. Filippo, did you get run over by a Michelin Pilot Sport cup too?

[Kenneth]

Oh, for those of you who can't see his shirt, he does look like he has a tire track across the sweater.

[Felipe]

I. I firmly believe that this Christmas is. This sweater is Christmy.

[Doug DeMuro]

Well, he got hit. He got run over. The sweater got run over by a tire around Christmas time.

[Felipe]

Do you think that Santa sleigh has Michelin passport too?

[Doug DeMuro]

Do you think that Santa sl. That looks like you got run over by a tire?

[Felipe]

Well, the question is, does the sleigh pretty wide one?

[Doug DeMuro]

No, it doesn't have tires.

[Kenneth]

What do you think it was? It was pretty wide.

[Doug DeMuro]

It's a wide Santana Mercy Pilot Sports like a Carrera gt rear rear tire.

[Kenneth]

Does look like we'll compare.

[Doug DeMuro]

Not anytime soon. Okay, next question. Actually, from I Am Him, a question for Doug. If you could make Ken and Filipo buy a car, what would you make them buy and why?

[Felipe]

If only Doug had that kind of.

[Doug DeMuro]

Influence, I would make Filippo just like make a decision, you know, like, step up and do the job.

[Felipe]

What. What would I buy?

[Doug DeMuro]

I'd make kenan Buy an E60 M5.

[Felipe]

Yeah.

[Doug DeMuro]

Really feel it. Really feel it.

[Kenneth]

Why do you hate me?

[Doug DeMuro]

I would make you get like something that's that I want you to get like, I'd make you spend some money. Like realize what it's like to write a check.

[Felipe]

Diablo. Oh God.

[Doug DeMuro]

I've been trying to convince my friends here in San Diego to get a vintage Lambo for like two years every day and. And no one will.

[Kenneth]

I mean. Yeah, yeah, it's a really expensive unreliable.

[Doug DeMuro]

Nick's got a mercy. It's not like I'm asking him to like, to like jump off a bridge. He's. He's. He's two years away from what I'm trying to get him to do.

[Kenneth]

Maybe he likes the mercy, you know?

[Doug DeMuro]

I know, but if he had a Diablo, he'd have a Diablo.

[Kenneth]

I understand you've got a kash. That's enough for us.

[Doug DeMuro]

Ellis. I need someone to share this with me. I want someone to share this experience with me. And remember Joe Sacki. I don't know any other countach people. Like I said, I'm a therapod. I don't know anybody else else.

[Felipe]

Right, You. You one up all of us by too much by having kash at all. So you gotta instead one up somebody that gets.

[Doug DeMuro]

But the problem. I don't want to be friends with any of those people. I hate all the other people who are rich.

[Kenneth]

I was gonna say. Are you sure you want to know K?

[Doug DeMuro]

No, I don't want anything to do with them. Okay, next question. Question for Porsche 32. Question for Kenneth. Matt Farrer recently mentioned writing a new article for Road and Track about how the CT5V Blackwing has been chasing the ghost of Ethereum 5 when BMW themselves and everyone else is not. Will you acknowledge the CT5V Blackwing is the true God's chariot and the spiritual Successor to your ether 9 5? If not, Doug, can you set up with Canon with a demo car for a week to change his mind?

[Kenneth]

So I have. I've driven the CT5V which was a.

[Doug DeMuro]

Demo car that I had as I recall.

[Kenneth]

Absolutely loved it. Manual one. It was blue. It was phenomenal. Love the car. I have never. I've never seen a fuel gauge physically move while I'm driving it. It is unbelievable. You have real range anxiety driving a gasoline powered car, which is crazy.

[Doug DeMuro]

Crazy.

[Kenneth]

Yeah, but like this.

[Doug DeMuro]

So your thoughts on whether it's got.

[Kenneth]

It's not as well as a. It's not as well rounded of a car as that is because it just doesn't. There are. I mean it gets like legitimately six miles of the gallon and it's also.

[Doug DeMuro]

Brutally fast in a way that the M5 is maybe a little bit more balanced.

[Kenneth]

Second and third in that car are really fun to use for acceleration. That's where it's in the M5. And then the Cadillac there too. The difference is the speed is multiplied tremendously and so it is a lot less usable in that regard. But I have to admit is, is. Is one of my favorite cars I've ever driven. I loved it. I would love to have one in addition to that car which I know is very redundant, but I'd have like the best and where it all ended in the end. And I can't believe that Cadillac of all manufacturers makes that.

[Doug DeMuro]

And in the spirit of the question, I think we both agree that yes, it is the car.

[Kenneth]

It's an empirical torch. Yeah, absolutely. I think it goes like that car. You could say maybe the Audi B7RS4 is very similar. Then came the Chevy SS which a lot of people, you know, a lot of love G8.

[Doug DeMuro]

I mean there for a while there were a few.

[Kenneth]

There are a lot of V8.

[Doug DeMuro]

But it's kind of come to this.

[Kenneth]

This is. Yeah, it's the fact that that's a car that's currently on sale is outrageous and that it's.

[Doug DeMuro]

It's actually a great car. Like the G8.

[Felipe]

The.

[Doug DeMuro]

The G8 though, it was great. There were concessions made. It was quite big. The interior was not great. Pontiac wasn't our brand. You know, same thing with the ss.

[Kenneth]

Same thing with the ss. The interior, like all the buttons was better.

[Doug DeMuro]

The interior, however, the CT5B Blackwing is like the E300 M5 in the sense that it is like the ultimate car that you really want. And it has the manual, the rear wheel drive.

[Kenneth]

I actually argue. And it's even more subtle. It says Blackwing in two places and they're little tags on the seats. That's it. You have to like really know.

[Felipe]

Of course you also know because you don't see any actual CT5 CT5s around.

[Kenneth]

So that's. Well, that's true. In San Diego they.

[Doug DeMuro]

I never see any of them, but.

[Felipe]

I just looked for you. You were talking about leasing a car based on what I could see in a 30 second search. Coastal Blue Metallic manual lease for only $1,700 a month.

[Doug DeMuro]

Something to consider.

[Kenneth]

I do want to see what they do in terms of. I mean they're holding their value relatively strong. They really hold. But there's nothing else like it.

[Felipe]

Like from the non driver for sale. No, we. We've hosted surprisingly few. Yeah.

[Doug DeMuro]

Right. Next question from Q. Sal. Hey Doug. Hypothetically speaking, if the 4gt slash career GT value started to drastically plummet. Plummet. Would you sell the car to save yourself from losing money or do you keep it for the pure passion of what it is and what it offers? It's a good question. It's hard to imagine a scenario in which they would drastically start to plummet in value. So it's hard to really put myself in the mindset of that. But I love the cars and I don't really need the cash, so I would probably keep them. Now in the scenario you're talking about, maybe the whole world is dropped. Maybe it's like.08 again or 1927.

[Felipe]

What would you buy again?

[Doug DeMuro]

Well, maybe nothing if I'm selling everything. Panic selling everything. Everything. But I really love the cars and they're what I want and it's hard to imagine. I. I kind of wish the courage was cheaper because it make me make.

[Kenneth]

It easier to use same.

[Doug DeMuro]

But like, you know, even though I bought it, like you've also bought carefully.

[Felipe]

So even in a world where something plum there is some intrinsic value to a car like that based on how many they built. The specialness of.

[Doug DeMuro]

I agree with that. The. The new Countach intrinsic value is low. A Carrera GT V10 manual. Fastest car around Nurburgring in the whole world. Ever.

[Felipe]

Close enough.

[Doug DeMuro]

That's a car that's going to always be desired.

[Felipe]

Couple seconds from being true.

[Doug DeMuro]

And one of the stories I hear, some of the stories I hear from the guys who did make those purchases 20 years ago of the F40s for 200 grand is that kind of thing. They bought cars that were special, that they loved, that they knew they would love and it worked out. But also they had something that they loved and surely the stock market would have done better, et cetera. But. But they, they had this thing that they loved and. And I think that's how you make the decision and, and that's how I've made my decisions. The three sports cars that I have, I truly love them. And yeah, it would be sad if they lost value, but not as sad as if I lost them exactly at.

[Kenneth]

The end of the day like that. And that's what upset me for a while. When so many investment people are like buying cars and then like not using them, using them as commodities, it's a horrible investment. Generally speaking you make way more money and other things. The difference is like if you're passionate about these like the goal should be to. To maybe not lose a ton of money on it.

[Doug DeMuro]

Even if you do money, it's a great benefit. Some of them do I think career GT is not in a position where it's going to rise in value significantly for a long time. It had a big jump. I do not think those cars are going anywhere for a while.

[Kenneth]

Made a lot of them.

[Doug DeMuro]

They made. They made well 1270s.

[Kenneth]

That's a lot.

[Doug DeMuro]

There's more of 40s.

[Kenneth]

There's more Daytona only by. Only by 100 but yeah there's more countaches.

[Doug DeMuro]

I don't think the production number is the problem. It's pretty rare especially compared to more modern supercars where production runs have now gotten considerably. Well they're out of control now but I think the problem is that it had a big run up and there's the people who have them have you've.

[Felipe]

Already made the appreciated the p Already.

[Doug DeMuro]

Have but okay, next question. Final question O final question. This is another question for Kenan. Luke 26 question for Kennet they're all for Kenan. Even the one that we we're not getting to question for Kenneth is great for Filippo. There's not any questions for Filipo.

[Felipe]

That's really sad because. No it's really not Folks, if you.

[Doug DeMuro]

Got questions about electric vehicles vehicles or the the great market compact cars I.

[Kenneth]

Actually thought about coming to you. That's why I wanted to ask today about the lease.

[Doug DeMuro]

I will look for you.

[Kenneth]

Don't you worry.

[Doug DeMuro]

Question for Canon As a fellow northeast Ohioan are there any spots that you know of to spot cool cars Dealership shows it such a.

[Kenneth]

So I actually I've been kind of putting this together because I'm going to post it on Instagram soon but like I was going back through. I'm from Hudson, Ohio which is a small town between Cleveland and Akron and in period when I was growing up there we had the craziest cars I mean nuts we had There was a career GT is bought new in my hometown. I have pictures of it at the gas station I'd see Spiker C8 Lamborghini Gardo Supera 997.1 GT3Rs in green. Like there were just and this was a regular thing. You'd bike to downtown Hudson. There'd be just crazy cars all the time every single Friday on some in the summer you knew was this was.

[Doug DeMuro]

This over at Aladdin?

[Kenneth]

Aladdin's there is there. There is an Aladdin's and I did I have pictures like where would you.

[Doug DeMuro]

See the car like at flip side.

[Kenneth]

The guy the courage GT always filled up a BP and it's because he went in to buy cigarettes there and he would leave and like that. I don't think he smoked in it. I think he still has the car.

[Doug DeMuro]

Also, you're talking about the BP at Main street there at Ravenna.

[Kenneth]

That's correct. That's right. Yeah, right off. Yep, right off.

[Doug DeMuro]

By the Rose. But by yours truly.

[Kenneth]

Yes, by yours truly. Recently. Recently revamped. Nice rooftop. I go back to Hudson with some regulator, but no, my answer for him. Not anymore. It's changed. Like now they're just like Audi s cars. The places I would go. Chagrin Falls is really, really. There's. It's a very wealthier. And every time I go there, I see nice cars. Even now. That has not changed.

[Doug DeMuro]

Nice cars. Like what? People in chagrin.

[Kenneth]

BMW Z8. I've seen SLS Black Series. I've seen a lot of really interesting cars. But the thing you should do, in all honesty, I'll send them. He's like, go to Marshall Goldman. Like the Marshall Goldman has just an incredible inventory and. But it's like going to a car show, like Truly.

[Doug DeMuro]

Yeah.

[Kenneth]

Just be very polite, you know, don't touch anything. Obviously be very nice. But that's the place to go. I mean, that's the place to go. But if you want to see them in the wild, I would say Chicken Falls.

[Felipe]

Where's the Triple F Collection?

[Kenneth]

They're in Columbus.

[Felipe]

That's a different day. Is there like a Carson Coffee that like. Do we know them? Is there a carsing office that they go to?

[Kenneth]

They hold a big event every year, I think in June usually. And they have some. They've had some stuff. They had some stuff from Mouse Motors Collection in Chicago. They've several McLaren F1s. They sent their stuff there. It was. That's a. And that is a wild show to go to, I have to say, for.

[Felipe]

Being as into cars as I am. Not my world.

[Kenneth]

Yeah, I understand.

[Doug DeMuro]

We know.

[Kenneth]

For you, Felipe, the local Toyota dealership. Dealership would be enough, I think. But it is.

[Doug DeMuro]

All the comments when you were naming Toyota SUVs, you forgot the lowercase B uppercase. Z4 uppercase.

[Felipe]

I don't consider that an SUV.

[Kenneth]

Sleep with us and consider. But that's my answer.

[Doug DeMuro]

There is Ken's top tips on car spotting in northeast Ohio in the greater Cuyahoga county area.

[Kenneth]

I don't actually need Summit technically. Yeah, you know.

[Doug DeMuro]

All right. That's our podcast. It was the finest one we've ever done. Thank you for tuning in. Remember, next week is our special Christmas episode where we're primarily just doing questions. Plus we have a special guest. Let's do it. I don't know what that means.

[Kenneth]

Goodbye, everyone. Goodbye. Bye.