How Long Will Electric Cars Survive? Best Ferrari Under $100K? The Next Popemobile?

Summary

Podcast Summary: THIS CAR POD! with Doug DeMuro & Friends!

Episode Title: How Long Will Electric Cars Survive? Best Ferrari Under $100K? The Next Popemobile?
Release Date: August 8, 2025

---

1. Financial Spotlight: Rivian’s Q2 Performance

The episode opens with a discussion on Rivian's financial health. Filippo highlights the company's recent losses and revenue growth:

“Rivian, which makes SUVs and pickup trucks, said this week that they lost $1.1 billion in Q2 of this year, now on about $1.3 billion of revenues. Now their revenues are up and they lost less this year than they lost in Q2 of last year.”
[00:29] Filippo

Kenan adds:

“Still down.”
[00:51] Kenan

The conversation delves into the challenges Rivian faces, particularly the decline in selling EV credits:

“Rivian has some big factors impacting them, one is they can't really sell like EV credits anymore...”
[01:17] Filippo

Doug questions the sustainability of EV companies under these financial strains:

“Is an electric car company a sustainable business model anymore?”
[01:53] Doug

2. Electric Vehicle Sustainability

Filippo responds cautiously about the future of EV companies like Rivian:

“Maybe. I mean, they're losing less money than before...”
[01:53] Filippo

He anticipates an upcoming episode featuring RJ Scarrange, CEO of Rivian, to address these concerns in depth:

“Next week the podcast will have a guest, RJ Scarrange, CEO of Rivian... This is going to be our podcast next week.”
[01:53] Filippo

3. Jaguar Land Rover Leadership Changes

The hosts discuss the recent retirement of Adrian Mardell, CEO of Jaguar Land Rover, and his successor, PB Balaji:

“Adrian Mardell was the CEO of Jaguar Land Rover... PB Balaji, currently the CFO of Tata Motors, will take his place.”
[07:29] Filippo

Kenan reflects on Mardell's tenure and the challenges faced:

“Jaguar was a ship with a hole in the bottom and it was sinking dramatically...”
[09:03] Doug & Kenan

4. Mercedes-Benz’s Product Roadmap

Filippo presents leaked plans for Mercedes-Benz’s upcoming models:

“We have some leaked Mercedes-Benz product planning plans for 2026, 2027... It's a really notable product offensive.”
[10:58] Filippo

The discussion covers the potential impact of these new releases and Mercedes’ shift towards electric vehicles:

“They've paused sales in the US of their EQ lineup... They're investing very heavily...”
[13:33] Filippo

5. Porsche Macan and Future Models

The conversation shifts to Porsche's strategy with the Macan:

“Porsche currently sells a Macan and a Macan EV... they're planning a successor to the gas-powered Macan coming out in 2028.”
[16:40] Filippo

Doug expresses skepticism about Porsche’s commitment to electric versions of iconic models like the Cayman and Boxster amid market uncertainties:

“Are they really still going to commit to creating electric versions...?”
[17:32] Doug

6. Chevrolet Corvette’s Nurburgring Achievements

Kenan shares impressive lap times set by the Chevrolet Corvette at the Nurburgring:

“The ZR1X did a 649:275, which is blisteringly fast... It beat the Mustang GTD’s 652.072.”
[21:04] Kenan

Filippo praises GM’s engineering prowess, highlighting the Corvette's competitiveness against traditional high-end sports cars:

“This just underscores how American manufacturers are making some cool stuff right now...”
[23:07] Filippo

7. Trackside Cars and Coffee: Road America and Road Atlanta

The hosts recount their recent participation in a Trackside Cars and Coffee event at Road America in Elkhart Lake, Wisconsin:

“We ran the first ever trackside Cars and Coffee at Road America... It was gorgeous.”
[29:28] Filippo

They describe the variety of vehicles showcased and the enthusiastic interactions with fellow car enthusiasts:

“A 992 Targa 4S, a cup, a UNSX all carbon, an old NSX all carbon GT3 RS... so many cool people.”
[30:17] Filippo

Plans for an upcoming event at Road Atlanta are announced, aiming to accommodate more participants:

“We're going to be doing another trackside cars and coffee in October at Road Atlanta... Space for 50.”
[32:21] Kenan

8. European Adventures: Monaco and Spa

Kenan shares his experiences driving in Europe, particularly on the Autobahn and at Spa:

“I maxed it many times. Which is 155 miles an hour...”
[43:21] Kenan

Filippo discusses the cultural aspects of driving in Europe and the allure of high-performance tracks:

“Walking around the actual circuit itself and going to the hairpin was amazing... It gives you perspective on how fast those cars drive.”
[38:34] Kenan

9. Market Report: Mercedes-Benz SLR Valuations

The hosts delve into the Mercedes-Benz SLR market, noting unusual trends in mileage and pricing:

“None of them have miles. None of them...”
[56:26] Filippo

Kenan emphasizes the SLR’s iconic status and its potential undervaluation:

“They are insanely powerful. 617 horsepower is no joke... a lot of interesting aspects of the car.”
[58:08] Kenan

Doug debates the appreciation potential of the SLR compared to other classic models:

“Maybe they are primed to at some point actually appreciate in a real meaningful way.”
[58:55] Doug

10. Audience Q&A: Engaging with Listener Questions

a. Best Car from the Worst Brand

Filippo nominates the Maserati Levante Tro, praising its Ferrari-derived twin-turbo V8 and sports SUV performance:

“They both have that real Ferrari derived twin turbo V8 in an SUV. It’s a surprisingly good sports SUV.”
[64:34] Filippo

Kenan suggests the Saturn Sky, highlighting its appeal despite the brand's struggles:

“I thought the Saturn Sky was a very good car from a not very good brand.”
[65:08] Kenan

b. Cars Unfairly Hated

Kenan champions the Porsche LFA, countering Doug's negative stance:

“I think that they are undervalued given how cool and special they are.”
[58:42] Filippo

Doug defends his criticism of the LFA, emphasizing his personal dislike:

“I absolutely freak. Like, it’s just so insane looking and so ridiculous.”
[62:55] Doug

c. Enthusiasts’ Downfall on Minis

Filippo attributes the decline in Mini’s reputation to shifting consumer expectations and brand evolution:

“People expected more. They expected it to be super focused on sportiness, super small... and now it’s not meeting expectations.”
[72:00] Filippo

Doug and Kenan discuss reliability issues and changing market perceptions:

“My car has been very reliable.”
[72:35] Kenan

d. Ineos Grenadier Sales Decline

Doug critiques the Ineos Grenadier’s market performance despite significant discounts:

“I think that it's very overpriced... They have a hard time finding buyers.”
[74:16] Doug

Filippo remains cautiously optimistic about its longevity:

“It's not a bad product, but longevity will be tough.”
[75:05] Filippo

e. Popemobile Choice

Filippo proposes the Ford Explorer Sport Track as a suitable Popemobile due to its capacity and potential for customization:

“It already has the bed to add a platform, like a glass platform onto.”
[78:50] Filippo

Doug humorously agrees, noting the vehicle’s American roots:

“You're all set... Friends can meet you with a Rivian.”
[79:15] Doug

---

Notable Quotes:

• Filippo on Rivian’s EV Credits Decline:
  “...they can't really sell like EV credits anymore...”
  [01:19]

• Kenan on Jaguar’s Financial Turnaround:
  “In three years as CEO, he took Jaguar Land Rover from heavily bleeding money to being an actually profitable company.”
  [09:03]

• Doug on Corvette's Nurburgring Success:
  “The ZR1X did a 649:275 which is blisteringly fast.”
  [21:04]

• Filippo on Mini’s Reputation Decline:
  “People expected more. They expected it to be super focused on sportiness, super small...”
  [72:00]

---

Conclusion

In this episode, Doug DeMuro and his friends delve deep into the current automotive landscape, examining the financial struggles of electric vehicle companies like Rivian, leadership shifts within traditional automakers, and the competitive spirit of American manufacturers exemplified by Chevrolet's Corvette. They also share personal anecdotes from their automotive adventures, engage with listener questions, and provide insightful market analysis on classic vehicles. The discussion seamlessly blends industry news with personal experiences, offering listeners both information and entertainment.

---

Note: Advertisements and sponsorship messages within the transcript have been omitted to maintain focus on content-based discussions.

Transcript

[Doug]

Foreign hello and welcome to this car pod.

[Kenan]

I'm Kenan.

[Filippo]

I'm Filippo.

[Doug]

There's a lot to discuss today. Let's start with the news.

[Filippo]

Can we first say welcome back, Kenan.

[Kenan]

Thank you. It's very good to be back. I've been gone for a long time. I was in Europe. I'm really happy to be home.

[Doug]

And we're going to discuss all that. Kenan has done some gallivanting and it's a lot of automotive related stuff. And that will be coming up in the Talk Car segment where we talk about cars. But first we have to talk about cars. Go ahead.

[Filippo]

Good call. All right, rivian, which makes SUVs and pickup trucks, said this week that they lost $1.1 billion in Q2 of this year. Now on about $1.3 billion of revenues. Now their revenues are up and they lost less this year than they lost in Q2 of last year. So they are improving.

[Kenan]

Still down.

[Filippo]

Revenue was up 13% from this Q2 of last year. Last year they also lost about $1.5 billion. So really they're, they're doing better. But RJ Scarenge, the CEO of Rivian, did say on their earnings call that there's a few big factors that are impacting this. One is they can't really sell like EV credits anymore. Like that they, they and Tesla and others use to sell regulatory credits because they don't sell any gas powered cars.

[Kenan]

Right.

[Filippo]

And other companies explain that.

[Doug]

So car companies that. Car companies that need to meet some sort of mandate in terms of emissions capability or whatever output can buy credits from electric car companies or could in the past, but that's gone away, right?

[Filippo]

Yeah, a lot of the requirements, I think it still exists a little bit, but a lot of the requirements around that for other companies have gone away. So they no longer need to purchase those credits that Rivian lucid. Tesla, whatever.

[Doug]

Can I ask you a question, Filippo, my Italian friend?

[Filippo]

Yep.

[Doug]

Is an electric car company a sustainable business model anymore?

[Filippo]

Maybe. I mean, they're losing less money than before. Also, I want to announce to all of our listeners next week the podcast. We will be having this podcast, the three of us. We will also have a fourth guest, which is RJ Scarridge, the CEO of Rivian. That's exactly what we should ask.

[Doug]

Yes, we can ask him about this. It's an interesting question. Right. Because it was hard before. Rivian was losing money before. They've taken away some of the things that have made it easier to be an EV company. And obviously Rivian, you'd think would have their biggest success when the products are brand new, just being rolled out. Very exciting. They're starting to get old now. They have some new stuff coming, but presumably at lower profit margins because it's cheaper and may potentially cannibalize the sales of the bigger, more expensive, more profitable stuff. I mean, it's a position to be in.

[Filippo]

I mean, we talked last week about how pretty much every European automaker was complaining heavily. They weren't saying it explicitly, but they were fundamentally saying our earnings will be and profit be way lower this year because of tariffs, because of the, because of our investments in EV that have or have not paid off. Honda had a large, had to declare a large loss due to that as well in Q2. It's a tough regulatory environment to work in. It's a tough market to work in. And also then there's other impacts. They've said that tariffs so by the way, Rivian makes all their cars in the U.S. they've said that tariffs are expected to cost about a couple thousand dollars per vehicle that they build for the mayor of 2025. So just parts that are tariff cost.

[Doug]

Rivian builds car in Illinois. They still have to deal with all these tariffs. Kenan, what's your favorite car to ever come out of the factory where they build the Rivian?

[Kenan]

Wasn't it. Well, didn't they. Isn't that the old Viper?

[Doug]

Tell him, Filippo.

[Kenan]

What was. What was made there?

[Doug]

You know what mine is the Rivian R1s.

[Filippo]

Nice, nice.

[Kenan]

Well said, well done.

[Doug]

But, but my second favorite was the Plymouth. Plymouth Laser RS Turbo.

[Filippo]

Good answer.

[Doug]

Well, the factory is dsm. You know, back in the day, that meant something. Dsm. You'd say that. Now it's just a medical people use it.

[Filippo]

Right.

[Doug]

But back in the day when I was a kid, you said DSM and you knew you were talking about hot, important nights. You knew you were talking about going to the warehouse area late at night to do drag racing. Anybody who dropped those three letters, you knew what they were about. You understand, Filippo?

[Filippo]

Yeah, I very much do. I do want to say on Rivian, I mean, we are excited to talk to RJ and to ask himself these questions. I suspect that they view this as a little bit of a win, though. I mean, revenue rose 13% year over year. They've kept their sale projections the same for the rest of the year. The market didn't really react that favorably. Stock price fell about 5% after earnings were announced. But it's not a horrible spot to be in as long as you're comfortable burning about 4 to 5 billion dollars.

[Doug]

A year where it's tough to lose that kind of money, though. Where does. What do you think RJ's favorite DSM car was?

[Filippo]

We should ask him that.

[Doug]

The Laser. Yeah. When does the R2 go on sale? It looks like R2 goes on sale in 26, first half of 26. That'll have a big impact on whatever. I mean, I'm not really sure. I'm not sure in terms of revenue, profitability, I don't know. But it'll be interesting to see. That'll probably be the Rivian right over. That's an R1, but they're big money. But the R2 looks like an R1, but it's cheaper. Like, that'll be the Rivian. That's the one Filippo is going to get.

[Filippo]

They've also.

[Kenan]

The R3 is the one I'm most excited about, but I think market wise it's more important. The R2 is going to be the one that is. Well, plus criticality.

[Doug]

The R3 is also further away. I agree. I'm more excited about the R3, but I think the R3 doesn't go on sale for another year. A year after the R2. So. So we're still. We're still six months away from R2. We're a year and six months away from the R3.

[Filippo]

Yep. I will say Raven confirmed on the on this earnings call that they're still targeting the same base price for the R2, around $45,000, which is notable because it's no longer eligible for a tax credit that they were putting on. So they know they need to sell units and keep the price low.

[Doug]

Do you think? Here's a boy's one to ponder. Do you think the R4 will fly? Oh, that's another question for RJ. It's another question for RJ. What's your favorite DSM car? Will the R4 fly? Is an electric car company, a sustainable business mod. This is going to be our podcast next week. It's going to be a whopper, folks.

[Filippo]

It will be quite something.

[Kenan]

I think that asking are there features from other cars that they're considering, like floating or flying or jumping?

[Doug]

Good question. Chinese cars jump, rj.

[Kenan]

The Chinese will Rivian jump.

[Filippo]

I'm just looking forward to the email that we get from RJ saying, you know, I really just thought about it again, I don't know that I want to do this podcast.

[Doug]

That's not going to happen. RJ's legit.

[Filippo]

Let me Tell you something, he's so legit.

[Doug]

Rivian is like a fun young. If we. If this. If we were having this conversation about Audi, they would never talk to us again, right?

[Kenan]

No, they. You were in that commercial that they just was a little bit of fun, throwing some water balloons. And the Germans like, no, that is not a mistake.

[Doug]

We made a mistake with an Audi commercial. I was in an Audi commercial and we had fun. And the Germans, what they do when you have fun is they put a stop to it instantly.

[Kenan]

No, no, take it to vey.

[Doug]

And the real. They actually do. They have fun, but it's specified hours and we had had fun outside the specified hours.

[Filippo]

Big mistake. Yeah, yeah. Classic.

[Kenan]

It was un. Fun.

[Doug]

Yeah, yeah. Okay. What other car. What other news do we have here?

[Filippo]

All right. This gentleman is named Adrian Mardell.

[Doug]

Crazy. This is crazy. Tell us the story. I'm going to give you my take, which is, I don't know. Jaguar will not have us on.

[Filippo]

Adrian Mardell was, and actually still is till November, the CEO of Jaguar Land Rover. Jaguar Land Rover, of course, makes zero Jaguar cars and some amount of landovers. They do something like Land Rovers. He announced last week that he was retiring after three years as a CEO of Jaguar Land Rover. And after 35 years with the company, a gentleman will be taking his place. PB Balaji, who is currently the CFO of Tata Motors, which owns Jaguar Land.

[Kenan]

Yes.

[Doug]

I can't believe you didn't pull up a picture of P.B. balaji. Okay, I'm going to describe P.P. bellaji for you.

[Filippo]

Oh, God.

[Doug]

You see the guy here? Yeah, a lot like that. Now it's interesting because he's Indian, but it's the same old. The reason I bring this up as surprising is because Jaguar's doing this rebrand where they're trying to appeal to like. You remember the video, Filippo?

[Filippo]

Of course.

[Doug]

Oh, yeah. It was like a woman dressed in a yellow box and then a man who looked like a tiger and then like. And then there was like a one across the screen. And who do they hire as the CEO to carry out the vision of this 62 year old businessman?

[Filippo]

Yeah, I mean, look, I get your point, but at the same time, credit to Mr. Mardell, Jaguar aside, and we forget about Jaguar, which again sells zero cars currently.

[Doug]

Yes.

[Filippo]

He, in the three years of CEO, took Jaguar Landover as a whole from heavily bleeding money to being an actually profitable company and making the best profits ever. All driven by.

[Doug]

Wait, wait a minute, wait a minute. Are they profitable? Because they're currently not spending Money since they're not in production, but they are still selling off.

[Filippo]

Land Rover is part of Jaguar Land Rover. And Land Land Rover to their credit, does actually make money.

[Doug]

What do you mean in three years? The Defender came out six years ago. What do you got?

[Filippo]

I mean, maybe they stopped investing in new products, I don't know. But they had some, some strong financial growth over that.

[Kenan]

In his view, like Steve Jobs said about Apple back in the day, is that Jaguar was a ship with a hole in the bottom and it was sinking dramatically and his job was to get the ship pointed in the right direction. Still sinking.

[Filippo]

Look, I think he decided that it's better if to say that ship.

[Doug]

Well, maybe. I mean, Land Rover must be a fun brand to run. Like ultimately he.

[Kenan]

That must be nice.

[Doug]

Like that's a real brand that has real interest in from people and sells real cars. No, yeah.

[Filippo]

A lot of the articles have already basically said, like he turned around the business around it for jlr. Generally. It had three consecutive, excuse me, ten consecutive possible quarters under leadership after being quite unprofitable. But probably we'll all remember him for this Jaguar rebrand situation with the pink rock and also for the new Range Rover logo.

[Kenan]

Oh, yes, don't forget about that. What a legacy.

[Doug]

Remember the woman in a yellow box?

[Kenan]

I do. And I remember the guy with no hair was wearing a trash bag.

[Doug]

Guy with no hair wearing a trash bag.

[Filippo]

And then later in the video, there.

[Doug]

Was a squirrel wearing a smock.

[Kenan]

Well, that might have actually saved him, but it didn't.

[Doug]

You know, I thought the podcast would.

[Filippo]

Be less unhinged without Nick. I was wrong.

[Doug]

I'm not wrong about any of this stuff. Move on to the next news story.

[Kenan]

No, that's the thing. That's crazy.

[Filippo]

All right, Mercedes Benz.

[Kenan]

A chart.

[Filippo]

Yeah, it's a chart.

[Doug]

We're doing a PowerPoint here.

[Filippo]

Indeed. Third quarter. The numbers are going to be. We have, courtesy of Motor1, some leaked Mercedes Benz product planning plans. So this is basically their Product roadmap for 2026, 2027 for new models that are coming out. This is a really notable product offensive is how every newspaper is describing it now, some of them.

[Doug]

Is it going to be as good as their last product offensive where they gave us the EQC SUV which sold one unit.

[Filippo]

You have to hope it's better. But that is the cla shooting brake and that's the electric.

[Doug]

This is a global.

[Filippo]

Yeah.

[Doug]

Am I getting, Am I getting. Hey, am I getting an E class station wagon electric or what? I can't see this, but I'm, I'm.

[Filippo]

I'm trying to maybe it turns out they're all shrouded in mystery still, some of them.

[Doug]

What does it look like? Like, tell me, tell me if the.

[Filippo]

Car shapes are all identical.

[Doug]

Okay, fine, but like, but like, just extrapolate, extrapolate. Like do not assume. I'll take back. I'll take battery electric or plug in. But you got to assume like if it. In the midsize. Let me explain. Mercedes, they got the mid size, that's E Class. If there's like several products there and they're electric, one of them is probably an E class station wagon, you know what I'm saying?

[Filippo]

It's a good bet it's broken up at the top end where they're clearly investing a lot of resources. Core, where an entry level cla is one of them. We believe that there's a new GLC facelift. A bunch of these, if we're being honest, are going to be facelifts of existing models. But we do know that they've paused sales in the US of their EQ lineup. And even though they haven't paused sales of the G580 with the U technology, they've paused.

[Doug]

They've paused imports. Sales will continue because there are decades of them stacked up. They got two and a half years, days supply of ticket.

[Filippo]

You know what they should do?

[Doug]

This is a thought for me. You know what they should do, Ken? And chime in if you agree. If you don't agree, don't chime in. They should make an off road gls.

[Filippo]

It bounces already. It exists.

[Kenan]

I'm good. I'm not going to chime in on that one.

[Filippo]

It exists now.

[Doug]

That one's all technically exist. I want a GLS with meaty tires and some flared fenders and some attitude and a bull bar which probably is no longer legal because of regulations, but I want it like kind of gls.

[Kenan]

You know you sound like a prince making demands. And I want a bull bar on my. Make it happen.

[Doug]

Let's go put on giant lights on the roof. Make it though.

[Kenan]

Think it's so. Hello.

[Filippo]

This is all to say that they're clearly investing very heavily and recognizing that their product lineup is either not very successful at the moment or outdated, which is some of their products really are at this point and they're coming up with a lot. The top end is quite heavy.

[Doug]

What do you think is outdated?

[Filippo]

A lot of their products are still doing okay, but the E class is new. The C Class is a couple Years old and due for a facelift.

[Doug]

GLA is new, brand new. Glx, GLC is newish.

[Filippo]

The GLE has been around for a hot minute, as has the GLS at this point. That the GLS, that generation came out in 2018.

[Doug]

Yeah, but it feels new.

[Filippo]

Yeah, but it came out in 2018.

[Doug]

When I see what I still think.

[Filippo]

Damn, what about the glb, do you think Damn about a glb?

[Doug]

The glb, is that still around? I haven't seen one since I got here. I've seen one three months. It's been nice.

[Filippo]

I believe it is. And I will say I do think it still has a third row. So that's something.

[Doug]

The point is Mercedes making a lot of products. Some of them are going to be electric.

[Filippo]

About a little bit under half. Yeah. Do you think?

[Doug]

I mean the previous electric incarnation of Mercedes Benz was not a heavy hitter.

[Filippo]

No. So you have to hope for them that this one will be.

[Doug]

Did any of the electric Mercedes do well? They electrified a G wagon, the most desired hot selling wait list vehicle in the entire car market. And even that didn't sell.

[Filippo]

Yeah. They also chose to not really electrify in a way anybody wanted any of their core products.

[Doug]

I totally disagree. I would have, first off, I would have an eqs, but second, I want an EQG or whatever it's called now. Like I would take one now. I wouldn't.

[Filippo]

You could get one.

[Doug]

I'd pay 88,300.

[Filippo]

I think you're like if, if you meet halfway the dealer then I, I.

[Doug]

Will only meet at the 88.3figure.

[Filippo]

Might take a few years.

[Doug]

I bet It'll take about 18 months based on how I'm already seeing used ones selling for.

[Filippo]

Not wrong. Not wrong.

[Kenan]

No one really teaches you about credit. It's a huge part of adult life, but it's such a blind spot when you're starting out. I take my finances very seriously, but even then I had to learn some things the hard way. It's easy to make a misstep or not realize how much your score is affecting your life. That's why I'm a big fan of what Ava is doing. Ava is a credit building app that makes it so easy to improve your credit fast so you can get better rates on loans, pay off debt faster and keep more money in your pocket. You can be approved in just five minutes. No credit check, no interest. Ava connects to bills or subscriptions you're already paying and helps you build your credit in the background. Most members see results in a week and it's just six bucks a month. They report your on time payments to all three major credit bureaus every single day. Take control of your credit now. Download the AVA app, spelled a V A today and use our code Carpark Pod that's C A R P O D. To get your first month totally free. Get the AVA app and use our code again Car Pod so that you know that you heard it from us. And get your first month of AVA free. That's Car Pod thanks to ava. And now get yourself some good credit.

[Doug]

Okay, give us our next.

[Filippo]

That's Mercedes. I I have all the good news stories. I'm so thrilled. All right, Porsche currently sells a Macan and a Macan EV. Right? The Macan EV new. The Macan not EV not new. That came out in 24 2015.

[Doug]

Thank you.

[Kenan]

Explaining. Explain it to me if you would a child.

[Filippo]

I felt like I had to. The Macan can 2015, it's a 10 year old product at this point. It's also their like best selling product period. The thought was that the EV Macan would replace it fully but they've kept it around a Porsche Macan Classic if you will.

[Kenan]

Yes. Okay.

[Filippo]

There will apparently based on use this week be a successor to the gas powered Macan coming out in 2028. This is basically Porsche saying, yeah, we didn't plan on making another one but now we know that we really, really, really, really, really need to.

[Doug]

I do want to stick up for Porsche here. They had never said this would replace the gas one. They, they were going to sell them in tandem. I think they were hoping it would replace the gas one now and obviously that's not going to happen now. Thank God. The big question though, at least for the purposes of this podcast, is what about the mid engine cars? The Cayman and the Boxster are gas now. They've out of production. They're going to be replaced. It's a ton of talk about they're going to be replaced by electric. The demand for electric has fallen off. The tariff situation has happened. The electric vehicle incentives have decreased. Are they really still going to commit to creating electric versions of the Boxster and Cayman instead of gas versions?

[Filippo]

I wouldn't count on it. I mean Porsche is in a really tough spot. They've had an incredibly, incredibly tough 2025. Chinese sales are way down. U S sales are down and they've had to raise prices really notably on the 911. I, I view this as a oh, we need to make sure we have products that we can actually sell. And make some profit on in the the U.S. i do know that there's a evil Cayenne coming out because they've been showing that everywhere. It's a tough market to invest really heavily in a whole new product line where there isn't that much interest in ev anything right now. Yeah, they might be so late in it that like they will still choose. Hey, may as well build it and defray our R and D costs. But I don't know.

[Kenan]

Yeah, yeah, I don't know.

[Filippo]

Tough market.

[Kenan]

It is a tough market. I don't know. And the market has kind of spoken clearly of what they want from Porsche and manufacturers in general. So they're just in a really hard position.

[Filippo]

I will say I don't know that I agree with the. Thank God they're making a new Makani Macan gas powered car. I mean good for Porsche sales, but like. Well, the GTI exists.

[Doug]

Wait, wait, what do you mean? It's their most popular car. Of course they're gonna make that.

[Filippo]

Yeah.

[Doug]

What's the problem with that? Don't you know?

[Filippo]

You sounded excited by it and I, I view it as.

[Doug]

You don't like the Macan. That's fine, dude. Used ones are 16 and they're fast and they're fun. Yeah.

[Filippo]

But as I said, the GTI exists and it's the same engine.

[Doug]

The GTI exists, same engine in the base Macan. Dude, me and Kenneth. Pull up the site. Pull up the site. Pull up the site. Pipe in Macan Turbo up there.

[Filippo]

No, no, I, I'm familiar with what Macan Turbos sell for.

[Kenan]

Look at that.

[Doug]

What are they?

[Filippo]

The answer is $13,700. Go back to that.

[Doug]

What kind of power these have? Four 420, 450, something like that.

[Kenan]

That's right. 420. 400, 400, 400.

[Filippo]

What a deal. Let's, let's, let's go split. Seize.

[Kenan]

Well, I don't think horse buy one. Exactly. Precisely. That is remarkable.

[Doug]

It's got 50 more horses than an SQ5, it's got a dual clutch and it's quicker around corners. That is a cool car. And you're gonna be over here. I don't really care if they make one or not. No, Filippo, you wanted to make one plus carsandbids.com, which by the way is the creator of this podcast. I think it might be me, but it might be them. We made a lot of money on Macan. Dude, you need a new Macan, you got to feed the beast.

[Filippo]

So true. So true.

[Kenan]

The sound effect. Really?

[Filippo]

That is such a good point.

[Doug]

Give us our next news story there.

[Kenan]

Yes. So Corvette has. So Chevy has released some very interesting stuff about the C8. Really. It's lap times and the new price of the ZR1X. The big talking point is that the ZR1 set a time of 650, 763 around the Nurburgring.

[Filippo]

So fast.

[Doug]

Yes.

[Kenan]

And the 01X did a 649, 275 which is, I mean blisteringly fast. Anything in and around the seven minute mark is crazy. I was just there and experienced it myself. Not a 7 minute or sub 7 minute.

[Filippo]

Not a 7 minute.

[Kenan]

Quite far off in an E46 Touring which I'll talk about later. But this was.

[Doug]

The current production car record is the Black series at 648. What did that do? 649.

[Kenan]

649. Pretty amazing. So it makes it beat the the Mustang GTD which held the American record at 652.072. The big thing is that they also released the MSRP of the ZR1X which is $207,000, which is a lot of money. But it's a heck of a lot less than the GTD.

[Filippo]

Or 217 if you want a convertible.

[Kenan]

Or 217 if you want a convertible, which of course you do.

[Filippo]

No, why would you. What are you going to try to do? Put down six, six, four nine.

[Doug]

A lot of money. But these cars are so legit. That's one of the fastest cars ever.

[Filippo]

Around 207 is not that much money for one of the fastest record holding.

[Doug]

Now I will tell you it's not. I will tell you. I heard a second ago when I said the Black series has the record. The actual record is the AMG one which did a 629. However, that doesn't count because it cost $5 million. But I will say though, it says over here that the record was certified by a notary which is so German. It's like we're going to. We don't. We're not gonna believe you unless you have like a woman there with a stamp.

[Kenan]

So that's the German way to take something incredibly exciting. Make it very boring. Okay, so I think, well, there are a couple, couple more things. One is it was driven by Drew Cantle who is their development engineer. Wasn't. I mean obviously at this kind of time you do need to be very a good driver. But it wasn't a professional known racing driver who did this, which makes him the fastest non pro driver ever to go really pretty crazy. But I think this, I mean the C8 we know is a wonderful platform. This just underscores like American manufacturers are making some cool stuff right now and that is an incredible time and the engineers at GM should be very proud of that.

[Doug]

Yeah.

[Filippo]

Is 711 a base C8?

[Kenan]

No, that's the Z06.

[Doug]

No, that's the Z06, which is also.

[Kenan]

A 711 is a pretty impressive time. When you say the Courier gt, the most recent one it did with the new tires and suspension and a pro driver did right around that time as well.

[Doug]

Wait, just with new tires they won't do it with suspension? I wish they would, but they won't. But 712. It did 712. 712. So the greatest car ever made does 712 and they do 7 11. Something to think about.

[Kenan]

Something for you to think.

[Filippo]

I will also say it's been very fun to watch how Ford has reacted to this because obviously the Mustang GTD is slower and 100 something thousand more expensive. Right. And made in Canada. So take that as you will ask a question about. Yeah, of course.

[Doug]

How did this happen?

[Filippo]

The Mustang GCD or them being slower than a Corvette ZR1. I.

[Doug]

First off, first off, I want to talk about the name which we've discussed before, but not on the pot. The GTD is a diesel. Okay. They make a Golf.

[Filippo]

No, it is a diesel Golf.

[Doug]

Yeah, they make a Golf gti and then there's like a sporty diesel one and it's called the gtd. What? A GTD is like me and a bunch of Europeans think that's what the GTD is. Right. Okay, but then also how did this happen? Like why did they create this? I think I was busy when it was announced and I've been kind of. I haven't paid enough attention to it. And then I found all these people on Instagram are like getting one or not getting one and it's like this big deal. But like it's like a half million dollar Mustang that like is a crazy track car. What? Where was the precedent? How did this happen?

[Filippo]

Please go ahead.

[Kenan]

Well, we got to see the car at imsa.

[Doug]

We did.

[Kenan]

Ford has invested a lot of money into going racing. And the gtd, it was effectively a road going version of the race car.

[Doug]

Okay, so they raced this car as a race car.

[Filippo]

Yeah. And it's made by Multimatic or partially built and developed by Multimatic, which also makes a lot of race Car chases.

[Kenan]

I got to see the car when it was announced at Quail.

[Doug]

Wow.

[Kenan]

And it was. And it.

[Doug]

What else does Multimatic make, Filippo?

[Filippo]

Oh, you know, a few other cars back in time.

[Kenan]

Well, they're known for this.

[Doug]

You know what?

[Filippo]

Yeah, the Ford GT.

[Doug]

The new 4 GT. The new Ford GT. My Ford GT was built in Detroit. American steel cannon, just like the R1s and the Plymouth Laser. Okay. But the new Ford GT is built in Canada. And the VIN of every new Ford GT starts with words that I can't say on this podcast.

[Filippo]

Interesting. I will also. Okay, I want to go back.

[Doug]

You'll look that up later, aren't you?

[Filippo]

I want to go back to how Ford has reacted to this, which has been basically to say, J. Joan Farley commented on like, Chevrolet's Instagram post about this and basically like, congratulations. And then the implication from other comments is that they're going to bring the GTD back out and think that it can do notably better instead of bringing.

[Doug]

The GTD back out to, like, try again. Like, like, you know, you. You lose and it's like, all right, let's. Let's do the World Series over again and see if we can just win this time. Why don't you just come out with a different car?

[Filippo]

Oh, like, like, like the Raptor R, but lower it and like, add more power. See if we can go faster.

[Doug]

No, I'm thinking like, mid engine. Like, they got the mid engine thing. What is the Ford new Ford GT do lap Nurburgring in? You know what I mean?

[Filippo]

The. The regular 4 GT? Nope. That's a good question. All right. Regardless, it's Fun to see a 4gm battle for Nurburing times. They're both so invested performance.

[Doug]

There's not one on wiki. My Ford GT does it in 752, which is the same time as an e, as an M4.

[Kenan]

Man, that's.

[Doug]

It's actually slower than a Stelvio Quadrifolio.

[Filippo]

The fastest.

[Kenan]

Such as the rate.

[Doug]

Serious car, to be honest.

[Kenan]

Such as the rate of progress. But no, to your point. Like, when I was a kid, I never in a million years thought that Ford with the Mustang, basically Contour with yes. And Chevy with the Corvette will be duking it on the Nurburgring in deep sub seven.

[Doug]

Yeah, it's wild.

[Kenan]

It's wild.

[Doug]

It's totally wild. And if you look at this list of the very best Nurburgring lap times, those cars are in the top, like, very highest echelon. Top of the top. Like, there's only Maybe five cars in that area. Porsche, a couple of Porsches, a couple lambos, the Mercedes AMGs, and then these guys. And not in that order. Like these guys are at the very. It's crazy.

[Kenan]

This makes me very, again, very proud of GM doing this. What a tremendous value. And that's a very serious achievement that people can actually go and buy.

[Doug]

So Ford comes out with a streetcar version of its Mustang GT3 car, $500,000. Chevy comes out with successive rockin Corvettes that are setting Nurburgring lap times. And Chrysler, don't forget this Chrysler comes out with an electric version of the Dodge Charger that plays engine noises from its from bumper.

[Kenan]

Yes, as I'm saying, every American manufacturer is doing it right. But it seems that GM and Ford are.

[Filippo]

As a potential future Corvette owner. I'm excited by this.

[Doug]

You've been a potential future Corvette owner for 20 years, dude. All right, let's move on to the next news story.

[Kenan]

I hope you enjoy your meetings at the future potential Corvette owner club.

[Filippo]

It's an exciting one.

[Kenan]

That's the end of the news. Today's show is brought to you by Delete Me. Have you ever wondered how much of your personal info is out there online? Your name, address, phone number, even details about your family are being collected and sold by data brokers. Doug has been a huge fan of Deleteme for years and has recommended it to me as more of my personal information has ended up online. We're thrilled to have Deleteme back as a sponsor and I finally took Doug's advice and it's been massively helpful. Deleteme is a subscription service that removes your personal data from hundreds of data broker sites. You tell them what information to remove and their experts do the rest. They keep working for you, constantly monitoring and sending personalized reports showing what they found and removed. Delete me does the hard work of cleaning up your personal information online so you don't have to take control of your data and keep your private life private by signing up for Deleteme now at a special discount for our listeners today. Get 20% off your delete me plan when you join deleteme.com demuro that's D E M U R O and use the code demuro again. D E M U R O at checkout. That's deleteme.com demero using the code demero.

[Doug]

Okay, we gotta move on to cars. And by the way, in this segment we talk about cars. It's brought to you by cars and bids. You go to carsandbids.com, you buy cars or sell cars or you just bid on cars or you look at.

[Filippo]

I don't know.

[Doug]

Anyway. All right. The most important thing that has happened this week in the Talk Cars segment is you guys went to a trackside Cars and coffee in an IMSA race somewhere in Wisconsin. No. No.

[Filippo]

Not only did we go, we ran. We put on as Cars n Bits the first ever trackside cars and coffee. It was at Road America in beautiful Elkhart Lake, Wisconsin. And I say beautiful because I miss Wisconsin. It was gorgeous, and I miss Wisconsin greatly.

[Kenan]

It's a beautiful track. It's known as the American Spa. You can easily see why when you're there. Lots of elevation change, beautiful woods that it runs through, but it was wonderful. There's Filippo right there in that picture.

[Doug]

That's Filippo. And you know what?

[Kenan]

That's Filippo. Filippo somewhere.

[Doug]

That's Filippo going back to Wisconsin in the summer. You remember that kid rock song All Summer Long?

[Filippo]

Of course.

[Doug]

That was written about Filippo's boyhood. What kind of car showed up to this thing?

[Filippo]

Everything.

[Doug]

Is that a viggin?

[Filippo]

Yes.

[Kenan]

Monte Carlo yellow. Yes, it is.

[Doug]

There's a Cornflower Golf. Are there?

[Filippo]

Sure is.

[Doug]

That's a Target. Some variety. What else you got?

[Filippo]

Yep. A 992 Targa 4S a cup, a UNSX all carbon and an old NSX all carbon GT3 RS. An S2000 that was currently on the site. An E61 M5 build.

[Kenan]

Yeah.

[Doug]

Oh, yeah. That. That E61 M5 was there.

[Filippo]

So cool.

[Kenan]

Oh, yes. And I got to talk to the owner of that car. So cool that he really went to excruciating detail to get every detail on that thing correct. Like he told me, there's a styrofoam tray that sits in the back for the M mobility kit in case you get a flat tire. Impossible to find and only reveal from BMW. It took him three months to track one down, but he said it was, quote, keeping me up at night, that I didn't have that for the car. That's the level he went to.

[Filippo]

He is like me, but he's into better versions.

[Kenan]

Well, all right, let's not temperature.

[Filippo]

There was a Dolomite brown E63AMG wagon that we sold on the site. There's a gen one that brought his red Cadillac ATSV.

[Kenan]

There's also an A12 GTS.

[Filippo]

There was a 12 GTS, but who cares? The guy that brought the ATS, the ATS V Black Wing, had previously bought a BMW 340i from Cars and bits, then sold it cars and bids. It's just generally so, so, so, so. Like there were so many cool people who were so into cars and bids into each other's cars.

[Doug]

Hey, Filippo, if you could have bought any car there at the cars.

[Filippo]

The Sodman 3 big. Okay.

[Kenan]

If we both thought about it, I.

[Filippo]

Mean, I told the dude to let me know.

[Doug]

Ken, what about you there?

[Kenan]

It was hard. I really thought about that. There was a gorgeous 997.1 turbo in blue manual coupe. I mean, that's the answer. Carbon. Yeah. I mean, it is the answer. That was great. The A12 was spectacular too, actually. And there was a really clean C4ZR1, which I was enamored with.

[Filippo]

Two.

[Kenan]

There were two, but there was one that was really clean.

[Filippo]

Both. One was a 92. One was a 94.

[Kenan]

Yeah. Then the white one. The white one with the white interior, I believe was a 94.

[Doug]

Are we doing another trackside cars and coffee?

[Kenan]

It just so happens that, yes, we are crazy. We're going to be doing one in October. What's the date, Felipe?

[Filippo]

I honestly don't remember. October 13th.

[Doug]

October 12th. October 13th at the IMSA race in Road Atlanta, which is actually an hour outside of Atlanta in a town called Braselton. It's where they make the Panoz Esperante, which is Kenin's favorite car. Fun factory tank, Kenan's third favorite car. Now, it's very exciting. How many cars are we going to be able to take at that one?

[Filippo]

We're still working on it. Because the reaction to this trackside cars and coffee was honestly so much stronger than we expected. So we currently have space for 50. Well, we'll. We're gonna try to increase that. What will be a little bit different is at Road America, we were trackside, like literally next to the track, which was very cool and also very loud. Every minute and a half. Road America long circuit, minute and a half. Got you time to chat. At Road Atlanta, we will be in the paddock, which will be incredibly cool, but means that we still have to do some logistics. A lot more information coming out about this soon.

[Doug]

Can I ask you a question, Filippo?

[Filippo]

Of course.

[Doug]

What do you do with it? Like, do you. Did you give a speech?

[Kenan]

I'll tell you what he did. Oh, God. He went and talked to a lot of people who wanted to talk to Filippo and also they wanted to talk to me, but he also went and he just went walked through. And as you can see here, guys, come up and talk to him.

[Filippo]

Talk to him, I talked to, I think every single person.

[Doug]

I want to know, Filippo, deep down, do you. What do you. Do you like, did you. When you started, did you, like, stand up there with a microphone and say, hey, everybody, it's me, Filippo, Honestly, people.

[Filippo]

Started arriving, and then they just kept arriving. And so it was a quick conversation. And then I luckily got the chance to talk to a lot of the people more in depth. And also a lot of people came that were watching the race unrelated to Carson bids or that weren't bringing a car, but came to check. To check out the cars and bids paddock and talk to us. It was incredibly special.

[Doug]

Convince anybody to sell an automobile on carsandbids.com, the website that is sponsoring this podcast.

[Filippo]

Yes.

[Doug]

Okay.

[Filippo]

Also, I want to say way more information coming about the Atlanta event, including how you can sign up to bring your car. What else will be going on there. Also, people came from all over the place. A Dude drove his R33 Skyline from Texas to see us. Somebody brought their McLaren 675 LT from Maryland to see us trailer it out.

[Kenan]

Our producer lied to me, but they trailered it.

[Filippo]

Somebody brought the Ferrari FF from Chicago trailer. A little different, but people came from truly all over the place.

[Doug]

The Toyota Sarah fellow come from. I see a Toyota Sarah right there.

[Filippo]

It's either that or Minnesota plate.

[Doug]

And I have a suspicion it's a Toyota.

[Filippo]

That is a Sarah. It's a Minnesota plate. So probably a few hours away.

[Kenan]

I have to say, on behalf of Polyplan and I, it was very humbling. Everybody who came up and said hello and wanted to talk to you. It. Everybody was so kind and I. I think we speak for us both and the entire cars and bids team that was there. We were so grateful, the response that we had. And it was. It was a wonderful time.

[Filippo]

Truly wonderful.

[Doug]

Had a great time.

[Filippo]

So great.

[Doug]

How long were you on the ground in Wisconsin?

[Kenan]

48 hours, I think. Enough to have cheese curds, which were.

[Filippo]

Did you.

[Doug]

What. What's that? What's the airport like there in Milwaukee?

[Filippo]

We flew in Chicago.

[Doug]

You drove from Chicago. You didn't. You didn't enjoy. You didn't enjoy the excitement of Milwaukee airport?

[Kenan]

Filippo made me, said it was cheap.

[Filippo]

First of all, General Mitchell Airport. Good airport. Good airport. That is indeed what the name of Chicago airport's called. Don't doubt me. Also, I drove a Sierra 1500 about 800 miles.

[Kenan]

I drove a Subaru Legacy.

[Filippo]

Yeah.

[Doug]

What. How did you rent these cars at the airport? You didn't rent them from. You didn't rent something cool from Turo. Are you out of your mind? There is nothing that would have stopped me if I was flying into Chicago. There was nothing that would have stopped me from running a ratty G wagon on Turo. I would have found the rattiest intentionally and balled it up when I was driving up. Like just, just like windows down, music up, like yo, yo.

[Kenan]

People, you gotta understand the level of jet lag I was operating with here.

[Doug]

To be there for this.

[Filippo]

He just wanted a reliable Japanese automobile.

[Doug]

Like so many two hour time difference.

[Filippo]

Tough.

[Doug]

It's tough. All right, what's our. What is it? Right.

[Kenan]

I had landed well, that ties back to me, I believe.

[Filippo]

Yeah.

[Kenan]

So I have been in Europe for a long time and you're back now for a friend's wedding. It was the main event and I tacked on a bun of car related and fun stuff to do. I visited nine countries while I was there.

[Doug]

Did a lot of stuff. Yes, Doug, what is Europe like?

[Kenan]

You know very well having been there and we have a number of European listeners. I suspect we do. But it was, it was lovely. I did go the car related stuff.

[Doug]

I went to Monaco599. So.

[Kenan]

So yeah, but this picture kind of sums it up. That's a chiron, that's an SP2. That's a Dodici Cherendri 599 GT.

[Filippo]

Oh, you just get past the Model 3.

[Doug]

Yes.

[Kenan]

599 GTO. That is an 812 Competizione. A Mercedes SLS AMG Black Series. Behind that an F12 TDF. And behind that another Chiron and a Cullinan. Yes, I saw Monaco was one of the most egregious displays of wealth I have ever seen. And if you're into ultra high end performance cars, you must go. It was incredible just walking around. I saw some stuff and then I saw some weird normal stuff like this C3 Corvette that was just parked right out in front of the casino.

[Filippo]

Know, crazy.

[Kenan]

Got a huge reaction. People were taking pictures of this car like crazy. And I took this picture specifically for.

[Filippo]

You, Felipe, right next to an Audi Q8.

[Kenan]

Then I went down in the garages as well because we parked down by the casino and I saw Z8 that had been abandoned and was there for a really long time. Chiron just next to, you know, Alexis. A world record edition Veyron FJ's always there. SVJ next to a Fiat. That just reminded me again of you, Filippo.

[Doug]

Thank you.

[Kenan]

A LaFerrari. This is the one that Got clipped its nose famously. Aston Martin Valkyrie.

[Filippo]

I mean, which we also saw at.

[Doug]

M. Which we also saw next to an 05 Fanny.

[Kenan]

Yeah, pretty. I mean, the stuff that's down there is remarkable. And then I took this picture for Filippo.

[Doug]

Thank you.

[Kenan]

I love Smart car on.

[Doug]

That. I didn't even know that was a thing. The smart car could be on bases bas Ste. Did you know that?

[Filippo]

Yeah, no, I didn't know that either. But that's been out for a while now. So maybe.

[Doug]

Maybe he's on winters.

[Filippo]

Yeah, maybe it is, after all, only July.

[Doug]

But it's played. But I don't know. We're now back to the 599.

[Kenan]

No, it's a German plate.

[Doug]

I can't see it.

[Filippo]

Yeah, it's German.

[Doug]

Oh, wow. That's where it. That's where it. That's where they have the snow. So there you go, it's July. He hasn't taken his winters off yet. He's not a true German.

[Kenan]

Can't be bothered. But yeah, that's a Monaco. Incredible experience just to walk around and see the cars. If you're into cars, it's the place where all these things are. I got passed by a lot Ferrari. Just driving around, it's just. Is a normal thing. And also, as someone who's into Formula one, to walk around the actual circuit itself and go to the hairpin and walk through the tunnel, I mean, pretty amazing. It gives you perspective on like, how fast those cars drive through there.

[Doug]

I agree with that. I drove it myself in a Ford Fiesta. Did you see a 92 Diablo?

[Kenan]

No. You know. You know, not a lot of old Lamborghinis. Did see a 350 GT though. So there is that. But no, not like Diablo Countach. I was talking to my friend Ryan, who I was with was like, I can't imagine driving one of those old cars like around there. It would be so, so difficult.

[Doug]

The thing about Monaco is that it is cool to see all the cars. However, they are not going more than 11 miles an hour ever.

[Filippo]

Really?

[Kenan]

I mean, yes, but still, I mean, yeah, it's the same thing with cars and coffee. The difference is this and car week. To be honest, the thing with this is it's like, it's like car week on a Tuesday, random Tuesday afternoon. You just never know what you're gonna see. So, like, I think that's really appealing. And if you've never done it, it is worth for the sheer novelty.

[Doug]

I agree. You go around a corner, you might see a 92 Diablo. You go on Another corner you might see a 92 Diablo. Now you never know. You saw no 92 Diablos, but you saw some sort of fake California.

[Kenan]

I did see a 250 California rep that was parked next to a 300 SL, which is another thing. The stuff you see is off.

[Filippo]

If there's anywhere. I don't think it's a rep though.

[Kenan]

No, I know the aura was. Something was wrong.

[Doug]

It had those rep wheels that the Ferris Bueller reps had, but it wasn't a Modena.

[Kenan]

It was something different.

[Doug]

Monaco's great. Monaco is great. But you did other fun things. What. What was. What else did you do?

[Kenan]

So I. Initially we flew and we flew into Germany. I had a BMW X3 M50.

[Filippo]

I'm sorry, was.

[Kenan]

I don't.

[Doug]

Sorry.

[Filippo]

I tried so hard to get Kevin to rent a Fiat Panda or similar.

[Kenan]

No, which you would have.

[Doug]

You were wrong.

[Kenan]

You know why? Because I was on the Autobahn for.

[Filippo]

You can still max out the speed of the Autobahn.

[Kenan]

No, I will get to the Autobahn in a second. But no, I was very happy that I had my X3 M50. I. I was with two other people. It was nice to be able to throw the stuff in there. Admittedly, there were times when I wish I had something smaller. Driving up the Kubler Pass, which you have done from Italy into Switzerland. It's very tight. Splogen. Thank you. It's very tight. And I did scrape a little bit of the X3 on one of the posts that are there. But you kind of have no choice if you want to avoid carsion. I don't know, but. Beautiful. But no. The thing I do want to talk about, the Autobahn, I ran into some issues with the Autobahn. So famously, the Autobahn is de restricted in certain portions, not the whole thing, but there are sections of it where you, you see, you know, four slashes on a white circle. You can go as fast as you like. This is reasonable, given the. If it permits, you do it at your own risk. And so I did get to max the car several times. However, in cities or closer to cities, I don't know what it is, but people with German plates on who should know better, stay in the left lane and they just sit there. They camp there in de restricted zones next to other slower traffic, which my understanding is the German people understood that you overtake and then you get over. The Italians understood this on the other side, but I was harder to do that.

[Doug]

Just generally.

[Kenan]

No, it wasn't. Not in the situations I ran into. It was very Easy. In fact. But it was so not even. It was just like people were just camped there. And I was very frustrated by this.

[Filippo]

Only the Italians do it. Right?

[Kenan]

Yes. So if you have. If your engine displacement begins with a 1, 2 or is powered by a diesel. Get over. But I did.

[Doug]

Wait a sec. Wait a sec. Wait a sec. Wait a sec. What if It's a Audi Q7 V12 TDI? The Italians do do it right. But part of that is because you have to pay to ride on the Autostrada. And so they're really. It's never crowded. Because Italians don't want to pay for.

[Filippo]

That is not my autostrot experience. But people are respectful. And also I think there's an element that people in Italy recognize that their cars can fit in tight places and so will move to the right lane. Even where you don't think there's room for them to move to the right lane. So they get over quickly.

[Kenan]

I found that. No. If there's room in the right. They did get out of the way. I was able to go very fast.

[Filippo]

That's what I'm saying. Like they feel comfortable moving over Canon.

[Doug]

How fast do you get up?

[Kenan]

I maxed it many times. Which is 155 miles an hour.

[Filippo]

Wow.

[Kenan]

Which I couldn't do.

[Doug]

How you feeling? Filippo's never been over 90.

[Filippo]

I am feeling quite fine with that. There's something special about getting to 90 miles an hour after 27 seconds of flooring it through every single gear in a FIA Panda.

[Kenan]

Well, I value my time in Europe and I wanted to get there.

[Filippo]

I do too. That's why I want to shift gears as many times.

[Doug]

I still think the Autobond is the most fun driving I've ever done. It's just.

[Kenan]

It's really cool when at one point.

[Doug]

Do a tie like Filippo.

[Kenan]

At one point I was. There was. They're all SUVs, and I can't remember exactly what they were. But it was Mercedes myself in the BMW and Audi. And a Porsche.

[Filippo]

Yeah. And a Pontiac and a. Yeah, we were.

[Kenan]

But we were all. Yeah. Except we were all doing 200 km. Over 200 km an hour in the left lane. Just cruising. Which was awesome and it was a lot of fun. But I used the Autobahn to get around Germany on a couple of occasions when I got there. And then a little bit later in the trip. And later in the trip I did what was. The wedding was the big thing. But the second thing I went to do was to go to spa.

[Filippo]

One of the smartest apps you can have on your phone in 2025 is upstairs. Upside gives you the power to earn more on the stuff you buy all the time. Whether you're filling up your tank, going out to eat, or shopping for groceries, the upside app lets you earn cash back on every purchase. I've been using upside a lot this summer. Every time I stop for gas or to grab a bite to eat, I open the app, claim an offer nearby, pay with my usual card, and just like that, cash back lands in my account. It's super simple. The app is free to download, and there are more than 100,000 places on it, including gas stations, grocery stores, and restaurants. So you're never far from a spot where you can get cash back. I love that you can get around 8% cash back at grocery stores and restaurants. Plus, you can still use your regular credit or debit card rewards. On top of that, it's like stacking savings without any extra work. Upside users are earning hundreds of dollars a year, which makes sense since the app has a 4.8 star rating on the app store. Honestly, it's one of the easiest ways to get money back on stuff you're already buying. Download the free upside app and use promo code cars to get an extra 25 cents back on every gallon on your first tank of G. That's an extra 25 cents back for every gallon on your first tank of gas. Using promo code cars.

[Kenan]

I went spa for the formula one race, which was incredible. Oh, yeah, here's a. Here's just a random.

[Filippo]

Oh, sure.

[Doug]

What do we got here? What do we got here? Okay, we got a range. Here comes a wyra. Wiring around.

[Filippo]

A GLC in the background.

[Kenan]

Wiring around.

[Doug]

Disastrous. What was that? LaFerrari over there?

[Kenan]

Yep, it was a laferrari over there.

[Doug]

Andre, what's in front of you? Ave a shirt. What is that?

[Kenan]

That's a TDF. That's.

[Filippo]

I mean, that's an A class A35, maybe AMG.

[Kenan]

Yep. It was just. Absolutely.

[Filippo]

But.

[Kenan]

But going to spa was the highlight, for sure. I got to be there. I sat right at the base of urouge and radion and watched the cars just rip past, which was the absolute coolest thing I think I've ever done in terms of formula one. This is my favorite spa is my favorite track, and to be there in person with all of the history was incredible. I got to do a lot of things.

[Doug]

No, show that clip again. You know what's weird about this, Filippo? Pay attention closely. You know, all the cars are driving in the same place?

[Kenan]

Well, they're taking the racing line through a place where you can't overtake.

[Doug]

Why doesn't somebody pop out a little? You know, these cars handle real well. Just take it a little outside, see what's going on.

[Filippo]

Somebody did cut a little bit in by, like, a foot, right?

[Doug]

Picked up time.

[Kenan]

Yeah. That's 200 miles an hour up a damp.

[Filippo]

I love the bike path next to the road. That's so nice. But it looks like a bike path.

[Kenan]

Okay.

[Doug]

Hey. Hey, Kenan. What. What happened there at the. At the race? Did anybody know you?

[Kenan]

Yes. So I put out on Instagram that I was going to be at the race, and a number of about a hundred people reached out to me and said, hey, I'm here too. We'd love to meet you. And a number of people came up and said, hello, who are also some Americans. A bunch of people from all over. Some people are sitting close.

[Doug]

Ask the obvious question. Why do we not do a track side. Filippo's mad at me. Why do we not do a trackside cars and coffee at the Formula one race at Spa?

[Filippo]

That's a great question.

[Kenan]

It's a little more difficult, and we don't sell cars in Europe.

[Doug]

Let me posit a different option. I bet Spa is expensive because the F1 is big in Europe, and the Europeans all go there. They go to Belgium. They're willing to put up with Belgium just to watch this race. But. But what if we win a trackside cars and coffee at the race in Kazakhstan? Because I bet you that the sponsorship isn't as expensive in Kazakhstan, and we could probably. And I bet the cars and coffee would be amazing. You'd have, like, Priuses and Prius VS and Montero Sports, I think. Something to think about. Filippo, I know you do this kind of stuff.

[Filippo]

Thank you for these ideas. They're wonderful.

[Kenan]

They're great. He'll put that one in the circular folder there and just get rid of it.

[Doug]

There's a race in Kazakhstan. Dude, it's in Kazakhstan.

[Filippo]

For right now, we're loving being partners with IMSA for their races.

[Kenan]

It's a good US Version, but I loved it. I also got to change. I got to do the Formula one pitstop challenge, where I got to change the tire with this German couple who could maybe do with a little bit better coordination, but it was. And especially, you know, aim. Oh, the German guy couldn't quite get it right. But nonetheless, that was fun to, like, six seconds.

[Filippo]

Seconds, though.

[Kenan]

Yeah, but. Yeah, but. Yeah, that's incredibly slow. But that that was a lot of fun, too. And then there are a lot of people in the comments who've objected to or had that I did with the Brunt boots.

[Filippo]

Oh, sure.

[Kenan]

However, I wore my pair with pride to Spa. Here is evidence of object.

[Doug]

What do they think that you don't wear?

[Filippo]

That is the single worst video I've ever seen. It's so disconcerting.

[Doug]

I think that is actually the worst video I've ever seen. But why did people object due to.

[Filippo]

Motions like that, that I'm sitting still?

[Doug]

And why did people object to this?

[Kenan]

Because I'm not the kind of person who normally wears boots, which is true. But I did wear them here. I also wore them in the Bla Jacques because I went to where the 101st Airborne was stationed outside of Bastone. They were wonderful, and they kept my feet very dry and warm, and they were really comfortable. I was, like, genuinely happy to wear them. I will take them with me on my future travels.

[Filippo]

And unfortunately, we did not get paid by Brunt for the zad.

[Kenan]

But, hey, no, but I'm Ken, and.

[Doug]

I got a couple of Belgium for you.

[Filippo]

Oh, God.

[Doug]

They got the German flag, but it switched. But did you notice all the personalized license plates?

[Kenan]

I didn't notice.

[Doug]

A whole lot of Belgium has allowed people to personalize license plates. Like America. This brand of freedom has finally made its way to Europe. And so in Belgium, you can get the license plate.

[Kenan]

Like Kennan right now, unlike you, I was focused on experiencing the culture as opposed to just looking at license plates.

[Doug]

The culture has become obsess. Belgium right now. And go to a dinner party in Ghent. Go to a dinner party in Bruges. All right? You spend some time at a park in Brussels. You know what they're talking about? They're talking about their red license plates and the fact that you can get them to say kennen.

[Kenan]

Oh, well, that's wonderful. I had a great time at Spa. That was my reason for going to Belgium.

[Filippo]

An incredible trip.

[Kenan]

It was an amazing trip, I have to say, of the whole thing. I think. I mean, Spa was without question, one of the. I mean, my friend getting married, of course, is a credit joke. But second to that, Spa was amazing. Well, it was an A. I love both my friends, so I'm very happy.

[Doug]

You went to Monaco and saw LaFerrari's and she runs. And then you went to Spa and saw Formula One, like, and you drove 100,000.

[Kenan]

I also went to Lake Como, to.

[Filippo]

Villa d' Este and to the Nurburgring, and I Went and.

[Doug]

Who cares about a wedding? Like, I. Like. I want to be happy for people. But like, you did better things in the wedding. You killed it out there. You.

[Kenan]

I did have a great time. There are two thanks I wanted to give. One is my friend Sretton from M539 Restorations, who Unfortun I couldn't borrow his M5, although I'm glad that I didn't because of the sheer mileage I covered and like, just being afraid of damaging it. I'm really happy he felt very bad that I didn't.

[Doug]

Why you giving him a shout out? He didn't borrow his car. If he had given.

[Kenan]

Because we. He. We. If you'd let me speak. We then went to the. You took me to the Nurburgring in his E46 touring and we went around. Well, the first day I was there, which was fantastic. He was. He's an amazing.

[Doug]

This is insane that you. You rode around the Nurburgring?

[Kenan]

Yes, I rode. And yes, we got there, went out for a lap, a dry lap, and it started raining immediately when we finished. Otto Alex was there. A bunch of British YouTubers were there as well. I'm actually in the back of one of the videos. We set Sweating's car with cameras and then I just made a cameo on the back of the car, which is.

[Doug]

What was it like? Did you run a 712 like that Corvette?

[Kenan]

We did not. The E46, as mighty as it is, really, it's not equipped to do a 712, but I did as a Corvette. But it was amazing. Like, I. I also. I got. I walked away with two things from it. One is that if you want to drive it, you need to spend time in a simulator, really learning all the corners before you go so that you know what to expect. You won't be adept to, like, the. Like the changes in the terrain and the sheer elevation change, but it'll help a lot because there are a lot of corners. But the other thing I learned is that, like, it. I can see why people get addicted to it. It's so much fun. And it just. You're constantly trying to make it better and you're always like, you're not supposed to time yourself, but some people do. And you just can get obsessed with it. And. And yes, we did.

[Doug]

It's not a.

[Kenan]

But, yeah, you know what? It was amazing. It was incredible. And like. And he's a very good driver. That car is very nicely sorted. So it drove beautifully. And that was my first exposure. I didn't want to drive for two reasons. One, he offered to let me drive his E60 M5.

[Doug]

You didn't drive it. You could have. You should have. Dude. The ner. The ner.

[Kenan]

You don't understand, Filippo. Even more, the level of jet lag I was experiencing, it was unwise, because then we also had to drive the.

[Doug]

Hour and a half back to Frankfurt.

[Filippo]

You know, you don't want to drive in a high pressure, high risk.

[Kenan]

No. And I've never driven it. And also, he was going to use that car to bring his recently newborn son home from the hospital, which he did. And I didn't want to risk damaging.

[Doug]

Wait, wait, wait. Let's go back. Filippo, I think we need to, because we got to move on to the slr. But I want to talk really quick about this. So he had a son that has not yet come home from the hospital.

[Filippo]

No, no, no.

[Kenan]

He brought his son home from the hospital in the E60 M5. This would have happened prior to that. I didn't want to risk damage taking that facility away from him.

[Filippo]

Time works in this way where there's like a time, there's time. And Kenan had this experience some time ago.

[Kenan]

Yes.

[Filippo]

But now is telling us about it now. And other events have happened between some time ago and now.

[Doug]

Yeah. One of those events was. One of those events was Kenan went to spa and took a picture of this fella.

[Filippo]

Yeah. Who is a para jumper. Okay, there's two other topics. No, no, no. Two other topics.

[Doug]

No, we have to move on.

[Filippo]

Two other other topics. First of all, we. A bunch of us will be at car week next week. Two things I want to say related to that. One is the podcast will actually come out on Sunday instead of Friday, which is sad for all those that like listening on Sunday. Excuse me. On Friday.

[Doug]

One time thing.

[Filippo]

One time thing. One time thing. But I want everybody to know so they can mentally prepare, they can feel themselves for Friday, if you see us around, because we'll be going to some events. I'll be going to some events. Ken and Mike, who knows? I don't know. Come say hi, because we would like to see you.

[Doug]

I had no idea one other Filippo was going. I'm thrilled he is. I had no idea he was going until this moment. But now if I see him around, I will say hi.

[Filippo]

I would hope that you do, because we're friends. It'd be kind of rude not to.

[Doug]

Okay, our next topic is the market report, and I only want to talk about one thing because we got to move on to questions and the questions were great. But I only want to talk about one thing in the market report is the slr. I want to tell you guys something. I want to give you a little backstory here. I come here. I live in the east coast in the summer, I come here, and I don't spend a lot of time doing car things. Nobody here knows anything about cars. I got a neighbor with a Ford Ranger, but for some reason. So as a result of that, sometimes I text my friends here, Filippo Kennan and various other people. Nick, Sam, there's a lot of people. Some of them come on our pod and various things about cars. And one of the things that I've been texting about pretty much. Pretty much every couple weeks all summer was Mercedes SLR values. And when I get on an SLR value tangent, nobody is willing to talk to me about it. It's probably happened four times over the summer. It's late at night, and they're, like, having dinner, and I'm, like, going to bed, and I'm like, oh, I got. SLRs are worth this. But I don't know about this. So anyway, no one's been willing to talk to me about it. So that's been sad for me. And by the way, this hasn't had it happen to other cars. It's just been the SLR this summer. I'm not really sure what, why, but now you two have to talk to me about it because we have an SLR live on the site. It's somewhere in Connecticut or Massachusetts or Connecticut, and it's on the site. Now, I want to tell you something very special about this slr. I spend an inordinate amount of time looking up SLR values, by the way. No personal interest in the car. I spend an enormous amount of time looking at SLR values. And you know what is interesting? Interesting. None of them have miles. None of them.

[Filippo]

One of them has miles.

[Doug]

Well, they list, and they always have 4,000, 6,000 miles. And maybe that's because a brake job costs $150,000. I don't know. I'm not saying that's why, but I'm saying it's a possibility.

[Filippo]

Right?

[Doug]

This particular slur has 36,000 miles, and that is cool as hell. Hell, because this. This. This one was actually driven in use. And that's pretty baller.

[Filippo]

It is very baller. I. Ken and I were. Were talking about this because we have a weekly show where we talk about the cars that are live now, and this was one of them. So we talked about it. It's incredible how this was very much a competitor or maybe not a competitor, but out at the same time and kind of talked about in the same conversation. Enzo and a career gt. The market does not recognize that as on par with those anymore. Well, that's interesting.

[Doug]

Various things have happened but production numbers ended up being a big significant.

[Filippo]

I mean 2157 is a lot of SLRs.

[Kenan]

Well, that and it's five speed torque converter automatic.

[Doug]

But wait, 2157 does not include the 722 or the Sterling Moss.

[Filippo]

It includes the sterling moss.

[Doug]

No, 2157 was just the regular slur. I'm going to look this up because I think I'm right because I got really into slight ours. 2157 total. Remember when Mercedes said they were going to make 3,500?

[Filippo]

Well, did they remember that?

[Kenan]

I don't remember that, no.

[Doug]

Anyway, what do we think about this, this car there? Felipe, you've been following the market on slurs. If you've been reading my text you'd know.

[Kenan]

Look, we have to pick and choose our battles. You just go on tangents and sometimes we just let you go talk in a corner.

[Filippo]

Sometimes I don't.

[Kenan]

Other things I don't know, man. The SLR I think offers a tremendous value in that it is instantly recognizable as one of the cars of those era. It is insanely powerful. 617 horsepower is no joke. And you know, it was this weird collaboration between Mercedes Benz and McLaren. These cars were built in Woking by McLaren and they were designed by Gordon Murray. Like there's a lot of interest, there are a lot of interesting aspects of the car. I do think that they are undervalued given how cool and special they are. That said, is it worth as. Will it be ever as worth as much as Angelo Curtin? Maybe driving experience and production, production numbers alone.

[Doug]

If you add up Enzo and Courage production, add them together, you still don't have as many cars.

[Filippo]

They're probably worth that much. But I do wonder whether they're primed to at some point actually appreciate in a real meaningful way.

[Doug]

Maybe. People have been saying that for years. You know, it's funny, we talk about how hated cars, cars that were hated in their eventually rise, right? And I was thinking about it the other day that's not always true. Like the LFA Rose, which I think is actually quite a similar car to the Square slr. If you really think about it like bad automatic, not the most attractive hated in its time, couldn't sell them and then it kind of Took off later, but for some reason the, the LFA took off, but the SLR didn't. I, I don't really understand that. When I see an slr, I freak. I absolutely freak. Like, it's just so insane looking and so ridiculous. That long hood, the front thing that looked like formula one. Those wheels, the side exit exhaust. Like, I see one of those and I'm like kenner, when he sees an E39 M5, you know, I want to.

[Kenan]

Be clear, but the O3 Mtech. Yeah.

[Doug]

So what do we think about this? Where's this headed, Felipe? You got any guesses? Huh? Huh?

[Filippo]

I don't, but I interest should be high on a high mile one because, like, who knows, right?

[Doug]

Not a lot of high mileage. If you want one to drive. This is a good one. It's also got a red interior, right?

[Filippo]

Yep. 3 Silver Arrow 300 SL Red. Who knows the market? I certainly don't pay attention to the SLR market.

[Doug]

But you should, you should people have delivered that information to you.

[Filippo]

I don't know the last time I saw an slr for the fact that they made 2200 of them. I see one less rarely, less regularly than I see a career gt.

[Kenan]

I saw one in Monaco. I took a picture of it, right?

[Doug]

What was it? What was it? A 722? A roadster? A coupe?

[Kenan]

It was a normie. It was a normie coupe, dude.

[Doug]

A silver coupe. Sometimes when it's a quiet night, the kids are asleep and I got nothing going on, I'll think about getting a silver coupe.

[Kenan]

You dream about flipping open that cover on the center on the shifter and hitting that button and hearing it go.

[Doug]

And then flipping over the. Open the COVID on the center stack and turn on the radio.

[Filippo]

That's right. Important task to look at.

[Doug]

Give us the 308, Ken. And then we have to move on to questions. Questions.

[Kenan]

So recently we sold a Ferrari 308 GTSI, which is the second series of the 308. When they went to the fuel injected engine, the two valve fuel injected engine before they went to the quattrovole, these cars. I drove one, this 82, which sold for a ton of money, had no miles on it. But I think, you know, based on their values, which are kind of in the 50s, 60s, this has gone back to being the. A great entry level. Ferrari 308S had a huge spike for a time. And qvs are still more expensive.

[Doug]

Expensive.

[Kenan]

But for 50 to 60 grand you get beautiful styling, like instantly recognizable Ferrari styling, gated manual transmission. You get the small go kart analog feel. You get the Ferrari experience. And 308s are pretty easy to service relative to the cars that came later. The engine can. The belts can be done with the engine in the car. They're known for their relative reliability comparatively to. It's like 355 and 348 and stuff. But they are really compelling cars, too. Cool as hell. I mean, it's the wedge shape, and I just think in this price range, granted, this one's an outlier because it had 1900 miles on it, but in this price range, they are pretty appealing. And I realized this one is a qv. It had lots and lots of miles on it and that sort of thing, but it's a really compelling car.

[Doug]

When I was driving, I did a video on one. It's one of those.

[Kenan]

I think it's this one here on the end.

[Doug]

I did a video. What did that sell for? The one I did the video on.

[Kenan]

60, 60 GS and it had great upgrades.

[Doug]

So cool for 60. Like, the Countach is cool, cooler, but it's 10 times more expensive. Like, these cars are really cool for what they sell for. They turn everybody's head. They have the cool wedge shape. They look exotic. Like, they are legit cool cars, and.

[Kenan]

They'Re actually fun to use. The Countach is a difficult experience, and that's kind of what you want with it. But this is actually, like, comparatively. Is very ergonomic and, like, it's fun. And I think that they. I think, you know, I'm not saying that these cars will become super valuable again. Ferrari made a ton of these. It was a very successful car for.

[Doug]

Them at the time.

[Kenan]

But I think that it. You know, for the longest time, this was a very inexpensive Ferrari. They went very high, and I was like, oh, maybe they're getting a cheap three eight.

[Filippo]

Or.

[Doug]

Or.

[Kenan]

No, I think three eights have settled into a very complicated spot.

[Doug]

And I think, by the way, I don't think they will ever shoot up. The market has just proven time and time again they're not that interesting. Too many, but it doesn't matter. Also, I didn't find it that slow. I. I found that the 308, I thought it was zippy. Like. Like, it's not fast, but it's not slow. It's. It's fun to throw. It's like a Miata. Like, it's fun to kind of toss around and kind of push and get into corners. It has good feel, good feedback.

[Kenan]

It's about. It's about the experience and it gives you the Ferrari experience and the lights go up and the horn is ridiculous and like you, you have all of.

[Doug]

That magic to it and, and, and, or you could say it in Italian experience. Right Filippo?

[Filippo]

Yeah.

[Kenan]

He keeps the Italian language and just anything, if you do anything you would try to do Italian. He just like his prickles.

[Filippo]

Well, maybe people shouldn't try to do an Italian accent.

[Doug]

We gotta move on to. I don't want to do this right now. We can't have this fight in front of people. We'll do it at pebble beach because apparently we'll do it live there.

[Filippo]

I will.

[Doug]

Okay. I want to move on to questions and I have questions from people. First question from evs and clutch pedals. What's the best car from the worst brand? An excellent automobile with a badge mostly found on crap with the best car from the worst brand. Felipe, what do you got get for us?

[Filippo]

Okay. I legitimately think that the Maserati Levante Tro. Yeah Is a legitimately good car. The I said trafa but the Moderna S is also probably same. They both have that like real Ferrari derived twin turbo V8 in an SUV. It's a surprisingly good sports SUV.

[Doug]

Yeah. I would have gone MC12 on Maserati but like yeah like a version, I.

[Filippo]

Mean I I of the like actual like Maseratis that are current erase of all cars.

[Kenan]

You could have said. I would never have guessed that.

[Doug]

In all honesty I agree with that. I I actually like that car. It performs really well. It was way too expensive new but I bet they've appreciated.

[Filippo]

Let me tell you it's not way too expensive used.

[Doug]

Yeah. That car was so bad. It really isn't. I agree with you.

[Kenan]

I was going to cut a little deeper. I was thinking a little further back. I I honestly I think I, I thought the Saturn sky was a very good car from a not very good brand.

[Filippo]

No, no, no, you're so wrong because every Saturn is good. The Saturn knew he would say that.

[Kenan]

I knew that's exactly Saturn silver.

[Filippo]

See the coup version of Saturn has good I'm sorry to Saturn for this Saturn view. Those years that it had the the Honda 3.5 L V6 good.

[Doug]

The sky red line was cool. Okay, I got a couple options for you here Filippo. You pick one that you like. Buick grand national baby boy. Yeah, that's a good one. Right one Acura NSX NA2 or NA1 on honestly.

[Filippo]

Yeah but they so many good cars. The TL type S was such a good Car at that same moment.

[Doug]

Yeah, yeah, he's like a. Is like an all time automotive icon, you know?

[Filippo]

Yeah, yeah. But the brand made good. The brand didn't make crap. They made good cars.

[Doug]

Okay, got another one. Jaguar XJ220, Kia Stinger GT.

[Filippo]

Kia makes a lot of exceptional automobiles. I think I just love cars.

[Doug]

Prowler. Plymouth Prowler.

[Filippo]

All right, the town and country invented.

[Doug]

The minivan Scion frs. Wait, the town and country wasn't a.

[Kenan]

That one's hard for you to argue. That one's hard for you to argue.

[Filippo]

I'm trying.

[Kenan]

Even you can do that.

[Doug]

Frs.

[Filippo]

The frs XB was especially the first generation XB was an icon. And I, my driver's ed, I used to have to do driver's ed in Wisconsin was in. Was in a second gen xb. So I look fondly about that.

[Kenan]

All might have been incorrectly.

[Filippo]

No, no, I meant icon. It's the way it meant.

[Doug]

Another one you're not going to agree with, but is right. Geotracker. How you feeling?

[Filippo]

Well, no, I agree with that.

[Kenan]

I. I didn't mind the geotracker.

[Doug]

Filippo, how come you didn't say. How come you didn't say Suzuki? What was it called at the Kizashi?

[Filippo]

Ooh, that's an interesting question.

[Doug]

All right, we got to move on.

[Filippo]

Competitive.

[Doug]

What's that?

[Filippo]

The Grand Vitara was competitive.

[Doug]

Not with the, the small SUVs of the today. All right, we got to move on. Next question. From future Mercy owner to Filipo and Kennen, is there any car that you think Doug unfairly is hard on or unfairly hates?

[Kenan]

Yep. Lfa.

[Doug]

Easy trash. What else do you got?

[Kenan]

Thank you. Point made. Thank you very much. Very much.

[Doug]

Bad tip. Ugly. LC looks better. Way too expensive. Looks good.

[Kenan]

Greatest sounding engine ever put are going.

[Doug]

To stand up for the lfa. A Japanese car with an auto with a bad automatic. That's ugly.

[Kenan]

You are going a musical. V10 and reliability.

[Doug]

I never said it doesn't sound good, dudette. I said it's bad.

[Kenan]

Yeah, bad. You're saying the whole car comprehensively is bad and that is not accurate.

[Doug]

You're right. You're right. Here's what it. Here's what it sounds like.

[Kenan]

No, it is much more soft. It's been a while since you've driven one. I think you need to drive one again.

[Doug]

No, I'm good. What else? Is there any other car that I unfair. Every other car that I slander is fair.

[Filippo]

The problem is that Doug likes cars that are bad, not that he doesn't like cars that are good.

[Kenan]

The Gran Turismo, you call it ugly, which is incorrect based on the general populace is feeling toward the car.

[Doug]

No, I. But I concede that I, I don't like how the. I think the Gran Turismo is one of the ugliest cars ever, honestly, the Maserati Gran Turismo. But I can see that most people really think it looks good and that I have an incorrect. There's something I don't like about big fendered long coupes, because I think the RX8 is also one of the ugliest things I have ever experienced. And when you really think about those two cars, they have a very similar profile. They have a long wheelbase, the wheels are pulled way out, and they have a big, long center section. And then they have this sort of sloping, big fender in front. And I just don't like that. It makes me uncomfortable. Comfortable.

[Kenan]

H. What other. I mean, so there are two right there that are probably one.

[Doug]

I can see that I'm wrong about the first one.

[Filippo]

Like I said, usually it's cars that he likes that he's wrong about, not cars that he hates that he's wrong about. Yeah, Doug and I don't hate that many cars.

[Doug]

We have similar automotive opinions. The moment, the moment someone comes up to me and says, I got four 356s, I don't. I never talked to them yet. They're gone.

[Kenan]

No, I agree with you on the 356 8.

[Doug]

The other day I was having a conversation with somebody here. I can't do the bathtub car. Okay, next question. Oh, my God. This is a Great question from Saab9.5. I've wanted to know the answer to this question for years. I should have brought it up on the Talk Cars segment. But here we are on the question segment, which, by the way, is sponsored by cars and bids. Why enthusiasts so down on Minis? Until recently, it seemed like they offered everything enthusiasts clamor about, yet I see little love for the brand. That is so true. True. It's hard to explain to young people, but when the Mini came out, enthusiasts thought it was the coolest thing in the world. Car enthusiasts. It was like. It was like the Miata. Honestly, it had that level of love, not just from like, like older women in cities, but like car enthusiasts loved the Mini. What happened? Like, people hate it now. They're like, oh, it's too big. Well, it's still smaller than everything else. Why do people hate it now?

[Filippo]

I have an answer.

[Doug]

Your answer is because we all bought them and they broke. Now everybody hates them.

[Filippo]

No, because there's a lot of cars that people still love despite the fact that they're unreliable.

[Kenan]

My car has been very reliable.

[Filippo]

Yeah, okay.

[Kenan]

It has been.

[Filippo]

I think it's an expectations problem. So the same way that when you're like when, when you look at a really successful company and they say we're going to grow a ton and then they grow, instead of 20%, they grow 19% for the 20th year in a row. People are unhappy about that decision. Despite growth. Right. Because despite it doing really well, people aren't happy because they expected more. Yeah, people expected many to be this, like super focused on sportiness, super small, the way many was at a certain point. And now it's not that it's still smaller than others, but like they've grown a bit. And I think people feel betrayed or like it wasn't meeting expectations and therefore they don't like it, even though it still is that it's not that. To the extent that they would promise that I get.

[Doug]

Okay, but can I, can I make a counter. Counterpoint? 20 years ago, BMW, Cannon's beloved brand, was making manual transmission, four doors and manual transmission, two doors and the Z8 and all this stuff that everybody loved. Now BMW makes seven SUVs and they got all this automatic transmission. They don't make any of the stuff that Canon used to love. Twenty years later, Mini, 20 years ago made a little hatchback with a manual transmission. Twenty years later, you know what they make more or less a little hatchback with a manual. Like people are always like, this company changed and they ruined it. Everything. MINI hasn't changed. They tried and all of their tries failed. And so they just went back to what they're good at, which is a little hatchback. What's the problem?

[Filippo]

They, they, they. There's also an element of like, consumer desires change. And what people also say they want is often not what they actually want.

[Doug]

Yeah, but they said they. I mean, but consumer desire hasn't changed that. I mean, am I wrong, Ken? Like Mini, it's a BMW with a manual, it's a hot hatch BMW, where are you?

[Kenan]

The reliability of the point, it's the.

[Filippo]

Same as every other.

[Kenan]

Well, and, and yes, and the girl I'm dating currently is looking at getting a new car and she was thinking about getting a Mini, but she too is afraid because of the car's reputation that it has for unreliability.

[Doug]

I, someone here asked me this like last week, what do you think of the Mini Mini.

[Kenan]

Exactly. It's like, what'd you say?

[Doug]

I was like, absolutely not.

[Kenan]

Absolutely not. Exactly.

[Doug]

So everybody I know who's had a Mini has as.

[Filippo]

All right, so maybe reliability is the answer. Maybe reliability is the sole answer despite the countryman being a great car.

[Kenan]

Well, I mean look at Fiat also is another. I mean like, you know, generally speaking has reliability attached to it. It's not true. In the case of your 500.

[Filippo]

My 500 bars has been incredibly reliable.

[Kenan]

It has been. I mean it, it's, you know, 52,000 miles, but.

[Filippo]

Yeah, but it's reliable.

[Kenan]

Yeah. So I think that's the, the issue. But I don't know, I mean they make some great cars. The John Cooper works like I've that I've, I've driven a number of the cars and loved them all. They're really fun to drive, but I don't know. And it also is not the, I don't know, I think certain like super MA guys, I think it's not the most masculine looking car and that's probably not untrue.

[Filippo]

Nobody cared when it was the R53 though.

[Kenan]

Nobody really. I don't know, there was something about that. Nobody cared. Yeah, it's just, I don't know, I like the cars they make. I don't know if I'd buy one myself because again, I am afraid of that.

[Filippo]

I, there's also some element of like, I think that it's a novelty brand. Just like the, the Fiat 500 when it came out was a novelty because of how it was styled, of how it looks, looked, of how like it made you feel and then that novelty wears off.

[Kenan]

That's true. These cars do drive really well. So like.

[Doug]

Okay, I want to move on to two more questions. Two more questions, Two more questions.

[Filippo]

Do it.

[Doug]

These are very good ones. Number one, someone has posted Telemeister62 has posted a picture of Costco advertising 2000 off MSRP on the Ineos Grenadier. And he says, sort of jokingly, I presume, will any of you buy an ineos now? The answer to that is no. No, because used they're selling for $37,000 off MSRP. Ineos really failed, didn't it? Like it's cool. And I think that it's very helpful for the rich guys to cosplay being cool, don't you think? That's what it is as a brand?

[Filippo]

Look, it's a vehicle that's limited speed, limited to 97 miles per hour or something.

[Doug]

The issue has been that once the crop of people who wanted them bought, bought them. They have had a hard time finding buyers. And I noticed that every INEOS dealer, you got 60 of them stacked. The trucks are stacked. They got tons of incentives. They got tons of cash in the trunk or the cargo area, as it were. And I'll tell you something, this French, German, British car is not finding a huge audience at the same time.

[Filippo]

You see a lot of them. I don't think there's. I wouldn't call them a failure yet.

[Doug]

Yeah, you do see a lot of them, but they sell. Right? Am I interested in what, two grand off? No, I still think it's overpriced. Like, I. I actually think it's cool. I like it, but I like it at like 40, which. What is a. What are these selling for on the site?

[Kenan]

High 60, high to mid-60s.

[Filippo]

I'm like a 70 to 80 sticker.

[Doug]

Give it two years. Give it to you.

[Filippo]

I mean it. Longevity will be tough. It's not a bad product cannon.

[Doug]

Kenan will be interested. Kenan will be.

[Filippo]

Kenan won't be interested.

[Kenan]

I think they're cool, but no, not for me.

[Filippo]

Kenan will be interested in a $10,000 Cayenne Turbo.

[Doug]

Okay, next question. Final question. And this question is directed to me, but Filippo's going to answer it. Actually, there's two more, very quick, from Jason Buchholz. Doug, you always say you are waiting for Mercedes to make a fully electric E Class wagon or a plug in. I put electric car chargers at my home. I want to plug something in. I want to plug. The question is my question. And Filippo, this is really to you. The next two are both for you. My question is, is, does the Porsche Taycan Cross Turismo wagon not appeal to you as they have become such bargains on the used market? Filippo, answer the question.

[Filippo]

Three pieces. Does it appeal to me? Sure. Do I want one? No, because I like practical wagons and the Taycan is not a practical wagon. That's a big issue I have with this Panamera. Panamera Pro Turismo. And thirdly, they're not cheap enough yet. I buy cars out of sub 20.

[Doug]

And we're still in the 60s. I want you to answer as if you're me and that wouldn't be my. The second thing was right on the money. It's not quite practical enough. A Taycan Cross Turismo is cool, but you're right, it doesn't have the cargo area. It doesn't. It's not quite right enough. What's the Primary reason I don't purchase this car for Lipa.

[Filippo]

What's the primary? Oh, of course. Despite the fact that you own a Porsche and deeply want another Porsche. You're not a Porsche person.

[Doug]

It's not that I'm not a Porsche person. I just don't want to like have a. I'm not driving my kids around Porsche. It's just not going to occur. This will not occur.

[Kenan]

Just a Mercedes, one of the two, the rare $200,000 convertible.

[Doug]

It's a weird hang up, but like I would. It's just not, it's not in my blood. Do you.

[Kenan]

The guy with the Countach can't be seen as ghost.

[Filippo]

I agree with you.

[Doug]

Well, I'm not taking any. My kids have never been in that car. They never will be. That, that, that's sequestered. I parked this stuff in front of my house like I don't want a Porsche.

[Filippo]

I agree with you.

[Doug]

Just, it's just not, it's not how I was raised on who I am. It's not who I am at my heart. Do you agree?

[Filippo]

No, no, I agree.

[Doug]

Thank you.

[Filippo]

Legitimately, I get it.

[Kenan]

Just a Mercedes and a, A Toyota with camo fenders.

[Doug]

Yeah, it's a Toyota. Dude, I'm a Toyota guy. I gotta use. I. You got a used Mercedes wagon that I bought from the Mercedes Benz dealership there in Tulsa. And I got a Camo Sequoia. Yep.

[Kenan]

You got a Camo Sequoia with a bumper sticker on it that says come and take it.

[Doug]

Come and take it. I got Trump's face on my personal checks. Okay, next question. Final question. This is a good one. Jsturti388 For Filippo, our resident Italian. American.

[Filippo]

Italian. Excuse me.

[Kenan]

As an American, do you not.

[Doug]

You don't want to be an American anymore? Well, then you can go. You can leave.

[Kenan]

We're going to call ICE right now.

[Doug]

You don't want to be in America anymore. Street speed 717 will personally kick you out of the country. He'll kick you out of self.

[Filippo]

I, I, I, I've met Street Speed. I sat in the back of his Challenger. I drove his Challenger Hellcat. Hopefully he remembers me. And. Well, we'll say no, dude, he doesn't.

[Doug]

He, he only remembers American Americans. Proud Americans. All right. For Filippo, a resident Italian who has become a naturalized American citizen. He should have said that.

[Filippo]

I did have to sing I'm Proud to be an American when I was naturalized, as is the song they play.

[Doug]

I don't think that's true. Now that we have the first American Pope, what American car would you pick to be the Popemobile?

[Filippo]

Yeah, great question. I think that an Explorer sport track is perfectly suited for this. It already has the bed to add a platform, like a glass platform onto.

[Doug]

True. Not true. Yeah, yeah. Was that built in the States?

[Filippo]

You gotta assume.

[Doug]

Well, I don't assume anymore because. Because the Ford gt, which is America's God, is built in Canada, and then it's terrorist. So let's see. Explore sport track where built. No one's ever asked this question on Google. Oh, Louisville, Kentucky, you're all set.

[Filippo]

Oh, we're good. We're good.

[Doug]

You're all set.

[Filippo]

Okay, that's our.

[Doug]

That's our podcast for today. Filippo's chosen the Pope Mobile.

[Filippo]

It's gonna be the title.

[Doug]

Yeah. Yeah. Thank you so much for watching. We will see you. What is it Sunday of next Sunday? Is. Are we gonna do the same pod, like, with rj? Like, are we gonna take questions and talk about.

[Filippo]

Yeah, if. If you have questions for rj, put them in the community post. We will do our best to ask some of the best ones.

[Doug]

Do you agree that I can't act like this around rj? He's like.

[Filippo]

He's like, boy, do I. I know.

[Kenan]

You won't, but you should.

[Doug]

Like, he's. He's. He's too. He went to MIT and rpi. Like, I. I can't. Oh, my God. He's like, I can't behave in this way. What are we going to do?

[Kenan]

You have a career gt.

[Filippo]

I'm driving a Rivian to Monterey Car Week, by the way.

[Doug]

Oh, wow. If you see a Rivian at Monterey Car Week, it might be Filippo. It may also be a Monterey resident who is upset that their city's been overtaken by the correct.

[Filippo]

Could be one or the other.

[Doug]

Filippo's got an Illinois license plate on his. And that's because he dreams of the Midwest and Diamond Star motors. The original topic made this car, just like they made the Plymouth Laser rs, the original RS built there. I apologize for this podcast. Ladies and gentlemen, our finest ever.

[Filippo]

Boy, do I too.

[Doug]

Do you have anything?

[Filippo]

No, just. Just. I'm so sorry.

[Doug]

Bye. Bye, everyone. It's good to be back.

[Kenan]

Goodbye.

[Filippo]

By.