Is Ferrari Cool Again? Ranking Every BMW M5 Generation! The Ram TRX and Audi R8 Are Back from the Dead!

Summary

Podcast Summary: THIS CAR POD! with Doug DeMuro & Friends!

Episode: Is Ferrari Cool Again? Ranking Every BMW M5 Generation! The Ram TRX and Audi R8 Are Back from the Dead!
Release Date: March 14, 2025

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1. Ram TRX and V8 Plans

In the opening segment, Doug DeMuro and his co-hosts delve into the latest developments surrounding the Ram TRX. Recent leaks suggest that Ram may reintroduce the TRX with a powerful V8 engine as early as next year. Doug shares his firsthand experience driving the Ram Rho, a more downscale successor to the TRX, highlighting its performance and positioning in the market.

Notable Quote:
Doug DeMuro [03:37]: "Mark our words, we will both buy Hellcat powered two door Wranglers."

The conversation turns to Chrysler's strategic shift back to V8 engines, emphasizing the brand's desire to compete directly with Ford's Raptor. While details remain scarce, the potential return of a high-horsepower TRX variant excites the hosts, who speculate on the implications for Ram's performance lineup.

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2. Cadillac's Entry into Formula One

A major highlight of the episode is the announcement that Cadillac will join Formula One as the 11th team on the grid, with Ferrari supplying the engines. Doug and his friends discuss the complexities and significance of this move, noting the high barriers to entry in F1, including cost and political maneuvering.

Notable Quotes:
Kenan [06:51]: "Like, this is now the stage and everybody's watching."
Doug DeMuro [07:00]: "We're excited for Cadillac's RAV1 Formula 1."

The hosts express anticipation for Cadillac's participation, speculating on their performance and the potential impact on the competitive landscape of Formula One. They also touch upon the broader trend of automakers reassessing their strategies in response to shifting market demands and regulatory environments.

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3. Audi R8's Revival

The revival of the Audi R8 is another focal point of the discussion. Audi is reportedly planning to base the new R8 on the Lamborghini Temarion platform, continuing the tradition of shared engineering between the two brands. Doug remarks on the significant price increase compared to previous generations, attributing it to the rising costs of shared parts and inflation.

Notable Quote:
Doug DeMuro [11:04]: "Yikes. And I'll tell you something, interest rates where they are and the stock market where it is, that ain't going anywhere for a while."

The hosts debate the practicality and desirability of the new R8, considering factors like cost, performance, and Audi's push towards electrification. They acknowledge that while the R8 remains a showroom staple, its future hinges on balancing luxury with the evolving automotive landscape.

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4. Nissan's New CEO and Potential Merger with Honda

Filippo introduces Ivan Espinosa, Nissan's new CEO, who brings a passion for enthusiast cars and aims to revitalize the brand. The discussion veers into rumors of a potential merger between Nissan and Honda, a topic that has been speculated upon for months.

Notable Quote:
Doug DeMuro [14:00]: "I'm telling you, the merger is happening."

Despite Nissan's historical challenges, Filippo and Kenan express cautious optimism about Espinosa's leadership and the company's strategic direction. They examine Nissan's financial woes, product lineup struggles, and the potential synergies a merger with Honda could offer, ultimately concluding that such a partnership might be essential for Nissan's survival and growth.

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5. Tesla, Elon Musk, and Trump's Involvement

The podcast addresses the turbulent relationship between Tesla, its CEO Elon Musk, and former President Donald Trump. Doug and his co-hosts analyze how Musk's political maneuvers, including his appearance at the White House promoting Tesla, have impacted the brand's reputation and stock performance.

Notable Quotes:
Filippo [19:10]: "Liberty Media specifically. Yes."
Doug DeMuro [22:28]: "But they are no longer... to sell things, you probably shouldn't get political."

The hosts discuss the fallout from Musk's endorsements amidst declining sales and stock volatility, noting that political entanglements have introduced significant uncertainty for investors. They debate whether Tesla's brand can recover and sustain its market position amidst these challenges, emphasizing the delicate balance between innovation and political neutrality.

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6. Morgan Super Sport

The discussion shifts to Morgan's latest offering, the Super Sport model. Unlike its predecessors, this iteration boasts a ground-up aluminum body and introduces a hardtop—a first for Morgan's lineup. The hosts commend the shift away from traditional materials, highlighting the model's lightweight construction and performance capabilities.

Notable Quote:
Kenan [24:00]: "There's no wood."

However, the conversation takes a critical turn when they note the absence of a manual transmission, a staple for many traditional Morgan enthusiasts. Doug questions the rationale behind excluding a manual gearbox, suggesting it detracts from the authentic driving experience that Morgan is known for. Despite this, the Super Sport garners appreciation for its engineering and aesthetic enhancements.

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7. Talk Car Segment – Auctions and Notable Listings

In the "Talk Car" segment, the hosts spotlight enticing listings on the Cars and Bids platform. A standout auction features a Euromarket Ferrari F355 GTS with a striking blue color and a flood title from Mississippi. Despite its desirability, the flood history raises concerns about its condition and longevity.

Notable Quote:
Doug DeMuro [46:57]: "This is one of the most desirable Ferraris... It has everything you want."

Additionally, they discuss a Porsche 981 Boxer, emphasizing its value as a performance bargain. Filippo expresses excitement over its potential appreciation, while Doug underscores the rarity and impeccable condition of the listed vehicles. The segment concludes with enthusiasm for these unique opportunities, balancing allure with caution regarding their histories.

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8. Audience Q&A – Controversial Topics and Community Feedback

The episode culminates with an engaging Q&A session where listeners pose questions on various automotive topics. One notable question addresses the rise of toxic behavior among car enthusiasts, prompting a discussion on gatekeeping and the importance of humility within the community.

Notable Quote:
Doug DeMuro [72:31]: "The number one answer is gatekeeping. You can't be an enthusiast unless the most annoying thing in the world, oh, you own, you have an automatic whatever."

Filippo and Kenan concur, highlighting the negative impact of elitism and the devaluation of diverse automotive interests. They advocate for a more inclusive and respectful approach, encouraging enthusiasts to share knowledge without diminishing others' passions. Additional questions touch upon personal anecdotes and industry insights, enriching the conversation and fostering a sense of community among listeners.

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Conclusion

Throughout the episode, Doug DeMuro and his friends offer a blend of expert analysis, personal experiences, and candid discussions on pressing automotive topics. From high-stakes corporate maneuvers in Formula One to the nuanced dynamics within car enthusiast communities, the podcast delivers a comprehensive and engaging exploration of the current state and future trajectory of the automotive world.

Final Thoughts:
Kenan [76:38]: "Best podcast we've ever done."
Doug DeMuro [76:40]: "What's the Citron qq?"
(Note: The transcript ends humorously with a light-hearted exchange among the hosts.)

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Speaker Attribution: All quotes are attributed to the respective speakers with accurate timestamps for reference.

Transcript

[Doug DeMuro]

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[Kenan]

And professional ultrarunner from the uk. I love to tackle endurance runs around.

[Doug DeMuro]

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[Kenan]

So I know a thing or two about performance wear. When it comes to relaxing, I look.

[Doug DeMuro]

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[Kenan]

Perfect for all of those things. It's the comfiest jogger I've ever worn.

[Filippo]

And the Dream Knit fabric is why.

[Kenan]

I'll always reach for them over other joggers.

[Doug DeMuro]

Check them out in the Dreamlit collection.

[Kenan]

By going to vuorie.com william that's V-U-O-R-I.com/william.

[Filippo]

Where new customers can receive 20% off.

[Kenan]

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[Doug DeMuro]

Exclusions apply.

[Kenan]

Visit the website for full terms and conditions.

[Doug DeMuro]

Hello and welcome to this car pie.

[Kenan]

I am Kenan.

[Doug DeMuro]

I'm Filippo and let's do the news starting with that the Ram trx. It has been revealed Slash leaked this week that the Ram TRX May with a V8 as early as next year.

[Filippo]

New CEO is doing things already.

[Doug DeMuro]

I will say I drove the Ram Rho which was the not replacement for the TRX but sort of the more downscale replacement kind of labeled as that.

[Filippo]

Though when they came out I was like we don't want to have a trx, we will have this.

[Doug DeMuro]

Well, their thinking was they wanted to compete directly with the Raptor where the Raptor gets more sales, which honestly made sense but but it would be cooler still if they had both a TRX which competed with the Raptor R and Rho which competed with the Raptor. I loved the Rho, however it would be cool if the TRX came back now, will it come back with the Hellcat V8 and 700 whatever horsepower? There's no details. This leaked out of a dealer meeting, I think. Yeah. So we don't know anything, but it is. It would be interesting if Chrysler started coming back to the V8 fold. Let's bring them back.

[Filippo]

There was a related news story where there was some quote from some FCA executive saying that they had previously said there weren't going to be V8 chargers of any kind. They haven't actually ruled that out and anymore.

[Doug DeMuro]

Right. We reported on that ago. They're clearly starting to reverse course on a few things. Well, regardless of the whole emissions EV political thing, when your sales numbers go where theirs went and when your day's supply goes where theirs has gone, you have to make different strategic decisions.

[Filippo]

And when you already have a V8 that just kind of is there and.

[Doug DeMuro]

That people love and it was beloved. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Decisions must be made.

[Kenan]

This is the signatory.

[Doug DeMuro]

This is the thing in order to save the company. And so they will save the company. And you know what? Filippo and I will both buy. Mark our words, we will both buy Hellcat powered two door Wranglers.

[Kenan]

I can think of. Yeah.

[Filippo]

I mean like I would.

[Doug DeMuro]

Could you imagine if such a vehicle existed? Did you ever drive the 392? No, sadly we drove the V8 Defender two door and that was sketchy.

[Filippo]

Yeah. But I always thought the 392 wasn't enough.

[Doug DeMuro]

What you felt the Wrangler 392 was enough? What would you. It had 470 horsepower. What would you put?

[Filippo]

707.

[Doug DeMuro]

You want the hell?

[Filippo]

I want the Hellcat.

[Doug DeMuro]

You want it at all?

[Filippo]

I want it all.

[Kenan]

Okay.

[Doug DeMuro]

Okay. But anyway, this is interesting and continues to go along with the theme we've now been reporting about for like two months, which is more automakers kind of easing off the whole EV plug in hybrid thing and easing back to V.

[Filippo]

What a sound.

[Doug DeMuro]

You like that?

[Filippo]

No.

[Doug DeMuro]

Okay, speaking of V8s, move on to the next news story.

[Kenan]

It doesn't have anything to do with V8s, but who knows what motor Formula.

[Doug DeMuro]

One is right now. It's probably a 1.2 liter one cylinder.

[Kenan]

No, it's a. They're power units and they're twin turbocharged hybrid V6s. But we'll move on like the NSX.

[Doug DeMuro]

I'm not a Formula One fan.

[Kenan]

Explain the story in.

[Doug DeMuro]

In my day, Formula career GT Formula 1 had V10s. That's all I'm saying.

[Kenan]

Keep dreaming, bud.

[Doug DeMuro]

In my day, Cadillac is back in. Is. Is. Is going into Formula one. And I have decided therefore, here's the big news story. I'm going to be a Formula One.

[Filippo]

Wow.

[Doug DeMuro]

They're not going to re enter until 26.

[Kenan]

I know. Yeah. You being.

[Doug DeMuro]

We all know all this stuff because we talked about it beforehand.

[Kenan]

Yes. But as the actual Formula one fan, you're. You're not even a Fairweather fan. You're just.

[Doug DeMuro]

You're only like, america's here and so am I.

[Kenan]

Well, Hoss, F1's been here for a long time, but we'll move on.

[Doug DeMuro]

Haas. That sounds German. Not interested.

[Kenan]

Yep. Gene Hoss. A NASCAR dynasty. Yeah. How to speak German. What? You know so little about motorsport, it hurts.

[Filippo]

What have you found?

[Doug DeMuro]

Well, I know everything about cart.

[Kenan]

Oh, my God.

[Doug DeMuro]

Imsa.

[Kenan]

He just. He just gets little glimpses of things and holds on to them as, like, his motor.

[Doug DeMuro]

But it's enough a lot of the time to make it seem like I'm not an idiot. Now on this podcast, it's not enough. And I do seem like an idiot, but when I'm in conversation, I'm like, oh, yeah, Imsa, I turned seven over at the. The Motorsports Park.

[Kenan]

People are like, oh, he knows, right? Yeah. Anyway, yes. Cadillac has been officially confirmed that Cadillac will be entering Formula One as the 11th team on the grid. So which is a big deal. To get into Formula one is incredibly difficult, very expensive, and highly political, but Cadillac has done it. Ferrari will be providing the engines they had announced earlier, but they of course, were like, if they're confirmed. We kind of had a good feeling they were going to be confirmed.

[Doug DeMuro]

This isn't. Ferrari's doing the engines. There's not going to be a North Star in these cars.

[Kenan]

Not a black car, no North Star V8s. It won't be that. Oh, yeah, Cadillac. GM has said that they will develop an engine for the car eventually, but it's really hard to do. So they're gonna start with. They will be one of the customer suppliers.

[Doug DeMuro]

General Motors is gonna develop a Formula one engine in suburban Detroit. Think about that.

[Kenan]

Yeah.

[Doug DeMuro]

Brave new world. It shows you how exciting and how popular Formula one has gotten.

[Kenan]

Yeah.

[Filippo]

Netflix changed everything.

[Kenan]

Liberty Media specifically. Yes.

[Doug DeMuro]

Netflix show other things. Yeah. Like, had a huge effect and now everybody's into this. Why isn't Porsche in Formula one yet?

[Kenan]

Porsche was like, going back and forth, is my understanding. I don't really know why not admittedly, just to your career. GT's engine point. They don't have the Best track record in Formula one.

[Doug DeMuro]

You think Cadillac does.

[Kenan]

No, no, no.

[Filippo]

Track record is better than track record.

[Kenan]

Yes.

[Doug DeMuro]

You get my point, though. Like, this is now the stage and everybody's watching. It's not like where, like, Le Mans used to be a thing and maybe you could get a GT racing and Formula one.

[Kenan]

Is your point.

[Doug DeMuro]

Everybody's watching.

[Kenan]

True. Yes. But to your point, Le Mans has also grown substantially in popularity and Porsche's just putting more effort. I mean, formula.

[Doug DeMuro]

We want to see Porsche and Formula one going up against Cadillac and Ferrari.

[Kenan]

I think they're watching also. Audi is, like, going to be entering for. So I think Porsche's like. Or like Volkswagen is like, that's.

[Doug DeMuro]

You know what we got to do. We got to stop having teams that aren't cars and start having only car teams.

[Filippo]

Yeah.

[Doug DeMuro]

So Red Bull. I still don't really understand make the cars.

[Filippo]

They could start making cars.

[Doug DeMuro]

They were going to make that supercar, weren't they? That, like, hyper.

[Filippo]

Yeah, that's right. Yeah.

[Doug DeMuro]

One of six.

[Filippo]

Didn't they have some news about hoping to have an American driver?

[Doug DeMuro]

No, they said they wouldn't hire an American driver just because he's American. They're going to hire their best driver.

[Kenan]

Which is the absolute right decision.

[Doug DeMuro]

They're not going to do dei.

[Filippo]

They're not going to do dei.

[Kenan]

All right.

[Doug DeMuro]

Can I ask you a question about this?

[Kenan]

Yes.

[Doug DeMuro]

I'm looking at the picture of the Formula one car, and to be frank with you, this is the first time I've looked at a Formula one car in probably five years. This bar right in front of the driver's face strikes me as an issue because if I'm driving the car, I'd prefer there not to be a bar right in front of my face.

[Kenan]

Well, now, that was the debate when the Halo was out of the car.

[Doug DeMuro]

So the driver's face was. The drivers don't want a bar in front of their face. What was the other side of the debate, pray tell?

[Kenan]

That it saves lives. And it does.

[Doug DeMuro]

Why not put the pillars here and here or something?

[Kenan]

Evidently, this is the most aerodynamic and structurally sound way to do it.

[Doug DeMuro]

So they're saving lives by reducing visibility.

[Kenan]

But it hasn't been a problem. It's been that way for years now. And drivers have gotten A, used to it and B, they just don't complain about. IndyCar is the same way. They use the same thing. So. Yeah, but the Halo has legitimately saved lives. I've watched it save lives while racing, so it's a big deal. And yes, Although it is not the prettiest thing. And yes, it is directly in front of you. Evidently, it's not really a problem.

[Doug DeMuro]

I am legitimately and honestly excited for Cadillac's RAV1 Formula 1. I don't think I will actually become a fan, but like every weekend I might say to you, hey, man, how'd Cadillac do?

[Kenan]

Are you going to ask me?

[Doug DeMuro]

Yeah, I'll ask you. I don't know how to look it up, so I'm going to ask you.

[Kenan]

Oh, it's very easy.

[Doug DeMuro]

We probably just Google F1 results. But then it says stuff like such and such driver and I don't know who people are.

[Kenan]

Because you won't actually watch the racing.

[Doug DeMuro]

No, it's a lot of time.

[Filippo]

It's also early or late, depending.

[Kenan]

Yeah, but you can watch it, which is what I usually do. I stay off social media until I've watched the race and then I go back on social media.

[Filippo]

The first race is.

[Doug DeMuro]

I thought you were off Formula One.

[Kenan]

No, I was off last year because it was clear in May that Max Versafen was going to win the championship, which I called and my friends were like, that's ridiculous. It could still happen today. Well, guess what happened? He won the championship. What a big surprise. And I said, despite being a Ferrari fan my entire life, I said Ferrari was going to lose. And guess what? Kenan was right again. So this year, though, I am watching it because I'm very excited. We'll come to a story. It relates to a story we'll tell a little bit later. But Lewis Hamilton is driving for Ferrari, I think, and this 2026 is a big. Because that's when the regulations change. There's a. Every now and again, Formula one updates everything. They update the rules and the technicalities and stuff that the teams have to have to partake in order to compete. That all changes for 26. That's when Cadillac is joining this year's kind of a throwaway year because they're putting all their R and D toward next gen competitive. I'll tell you this kind of a refreshment.

[Doug DeMuro]

So it'll be not a throwaway for Lewis.

[Kenan]

It's not a throwaway for Lewis Hamilton. But yes, nonetheless, I am excited. I will be watching all the races. The first race is this weekend, Saturday night. It's in Melbourne, Australia, which was where they've started traditionally for a while now. Can I ask you a question post Covid? Yes.

[Doug DeMuro]

What if Cadillac wins the championship? Is that still a Ferrari win? Do you understand what I'm saying?

[Kenan]

Oh, as an engine supplier.

[Doug DeMuro]

As an engine supplier, would you be like Ferrari won because Cadillac won?

[Kenan]

No, I'm not that much of a jerk. I would say the Cadillac won. I mean, I would say Cadillac won, Cadillac win. But they would be a little asterisk for me. But I'll tell you this, I bet you they don't win on their first season. I don't think any team is ever.

[Doug DeMuro]

Do you think it's a little weird that Cadillac is going incredibly hard into this competitive high performance sport without a vehicle to sell to anybody who's watching.

[Filippo]

CT5V Blackwing, CT4V Blackwing Escalade V Escalade IQL Escalade IQL.

[Doug DeMuro]

No, but I mean really like the, the V5. The V. Black Wings aren't the correct answer. They're pretty low production and you can't imagine.

[Filippo]

Maybe they'll change.

[Doug DeMuro]

Oh, okay. Heard it here first. Speaking of Halo sports cars, our next news story is the Audi R8. This is an old Audi R8 drove by Audi dealer in San Diego yesterday. They still got one.

[Filippo]

What?

[Doug DeMuro]

Yikes. And I'll tell you something, interest rates where they are and the stock market where it is, that ain't going anywhere for a while. This is a Lamborghini John Temarion and Audi reportedly is going to make an R8 based on the Temerian. Now this is not a surprise because the last two generations of R8 have also been based on the Lamborghinis, the Gallardo and the Huracan. And so they're going to do it again.

[Filippo]

But I thought the R8 was gone.

[Doug DeMuro]

They said that the last R8 was last, but they left the door open that it could come back.

[Filippo]

The R8 was the most successful Halo car I can think of.

[Kenan]

Yeah, it's just the first gen, specifically.

[Filippo]

The first gen. After that point it.

[Doug DeMuro]

Was the way it got successful was a formula that they can no longer do. Trying to work economies of scale because ultimately the John Temarion is going to cost 350,000 Ferrario.

[Filippo]

Yeah.

[Doug DeMuro]

And so this will cost 275 grand. The R8 when it came out in 08 was 90 grand or 98 or something like. And I know there's been inflation, but there hasn't been 4x like this car because they need to share the parts with Lambo has become so expensive that it no longer does what it did but what it was big.

[Filippo]

But also. What does a Halo car do for Audi now? I don't.

[Kenan]

They're stalled now.

[Doug DeMuro]

Yeah, it's still cool in the showrooms.

[Filippo]

It is still cool in the show.

[Doug DeMuro]

And what it'll have undoubtedly. What it'll have undoubtedly is a plug in powertrain. And they're desperately trying to sell electric cars.

[Filippo]

That's a great point.

[Doug DeMuro]

And so that'll be.

[Filippo]

Yeah. To go more in on that.

[Doug DeMuro]

All right, give us our next news story please. Ah, yes, Nissan standing in front of a Nissan.

[Kenan]

Which means it's Filippo's story.

[Doug DeMuro]

Yeah.

[Filippo]

Nissan has a new CEO. So you guys may remember that there were talks of a merger with Honda. Started as a merger of equals, quickly became Nissan. Could be a subsidiary Honda or excuse me, Nissan very much backed away. The CEO that orchestrated that is now gone. Makado Uchida left last week.

[Doug DeMuro]

What's this fellow's name?

[Filippo]

This fellow's name is Ivan Espinosa. He is Mexican born. Yeah. And he was formerly something senior in operation. The director of global planning, something like that. Chief Planning Officer.

[Doug DeMuro]

It's amazing to me that these companies that fail continue to promote from within. Director of Global Planning for Nissan. Is he responsible for giving us the absolute disaster of an Altima for the last five generations?

[Filippo]

I mean probably.

[Doug DeMuro]

But I will say there's a lot.

[Filippo]

Of auto enthusiasts that are somewhat excited because he has known to be more into enthusiast cars. He said a couple years ago that he was working really hard to make a return of the Silvia happen, which was Nissan's two door recoup. He was trying to orchestrate that because he really cares about enthusiasts and enthusiasts driving the brand forward.

[Doug DeMuro]

Is he the one let the GTR languish for the last 19 years without any updates?

[Filippo]

I don't know. The question is that right? Like how much power did he have that, did he not have that he now has to do what he wants or is that just what he wants?

[Doug DeMuro]

The question is, and we're getting a little technical here and Kenan's not gonna like it, but does the board want the merger and do they feel that this person is merger.

[Filippo]

There have been.

[Doug DeMuro]

Is, is, is merger likely?

[Filippo]

I will say there have been some rumors and some like leaks, reporters saying that the mergers could be back on the table. But when the board voted him in, they at least in what they announced publicly. And what has been revealed about that board meeting, they did not talk at all about the merger.

[Doug DeMuro]

I'm going to tell you right now, the merger's happening.

[Filippo]

The merger's back on. It's back in contention in a way it wasn't before.

[Doug DeMuro]

No, no, no. I'm telling you right now, I'm not Saying it's back on.

[Kenan]

What?

[Doug DeMuro]

You're reading the paper. I'm telling you this merger is happening. Nissan will fail without it. Because it is a failure of a company and has been my entire adult life.

[Filippo]

The 03 Altima.

[Doug DeMuro]

The 03 Altima was. I was a child, but it changed the world and it was 02 and.

[Filippo]

It was still a failure for being honest.

[Doug DeMuro]

No, it was successful.

[Filippo]

Yeah.

[Doug DeMuro]

That car changed the whole world because everybody had to copy that car. It's the only time in history that everybody copied Nissan. The Maxima camera.

[Filippo]

There are two options, Right. Clearly, if you fire the board because your stock tanked after you withdrew from merger negotiations, you probably want to either do something that makes the market think that you're serious about rebuilding as a brand or that you're serious about the merger. It could be a little bit either.

[Doug DeMuro]

I'm telling you, the merger is this company cannot continue to succeed. Yeah.

[Filippo]

Because of a lot of lease obligations.

[Doug DeMuro]

It's a 9th rate company making 11th rate cars.

[Filippo]

You know, their big mistake over the.

[Doug DeMuro]

Last couple years, I can name so.

[Filippo]

Many that impacts their finances because they do still sell cars, but their residuals are so far off of what they modeled. I'm certifying a little bit. But they have a real problem as a result.

[Doug DeMuro]

You know what's funny about Nissan, I'll never forget when they came out with an electric car before anybody else. Remember this? In fall of 2015, 2010, they came out with the Leaf. And the world has changed and a mass market electric car is here. And you know, after all these years, you know what electric cars Nissan has.

[Filippo]

There's the Leaf, there's another one.

[Doug DeMuro]

And I think you want to say the Aria. You think that, that, you think that 15 years of R and D got us the Aria. I got a. Just leased in Aria for 199amonth with zero down. Okay.

[Filippo]

That's what I think all Aria leases are.

[Doug DeMuro]

That's a cell phone bill. Yeah.

[Filippo]

I mean, look, they're, they're not.

[Doug DeMuro]

They got a car. It's a good deal. Actually, there's T and stuff.

[Filippo]

As part of some of their press releases, Nissan has taken a bunch of steps to apparently make product development less expensive and faster, which is a. Yeah, they're gonna make even worse for quality.

[Doug DeMuro]

Yeah.

[Filippo]

There's gonna be a merger, so.

[Kenan]

Yeah. So it's great that they have an enthusiast who.

[Filippo]

Merger is a strong word. It's gonna be an act with a transition.

[Kenan]

There's gonna be great that they have an enthusiast who is at A senior position. But that doesn't really mean anything if the company doesn't make any money.

[Filippo]

Yep.

[Kenan]

So like yeah, they're going to make.

[Doug DeMuro]

Money because they're going to be part of Honda and Honda makes money. So it's all going to work out great.

[Kenan]

Well, Honda, you got to imagine it's going to kind of.

[Doug DeMuro]

And then we'll see economies of scale. Maybe there'll be a Honda gtr.

[Filippo]

It is one thing that is interesting. First time that somebody, somebody at Nissan from North America is in charge.

[Doug DeMuro]

Well, with North America has been a resounding success story. So it's great.

[Filippo]

I will say one thing on that. We're Nissan's only market, let's be honest.

[Doug DeMuro]

Japan, Asia, they sell in Asia. You can go to go to Asia. There's Nissan's everywhere. It's the only place they sell.

[Filippo]

Growth market in Australia, it's, there may be something there.

[Doug DeMuro]

And Mexico, which this guy's seeing tissue rules around his whole life. They're like give the Tesuru guy the reins.

[Filippo]

Right. I mean it's been the same for the last 30 years.

[Doug DeMuro]

All right, give us the next news story. Before we move on, let me tell you about Ridge. My old wallet was a massive aging leather hunk of junk. And I thought there was something sentimental about lugging around a massive wallet I had been using for many years. But after it was beginning to really fall apart, I was ready for an upgrade and I chose Ridge with a unique, slim modern design that holds up to 12 cards plus cash. And it's made with premium car enthusiasty materials like aluminum, titanium and carbon fiber. Plus There are over 50 colors to choose from. All Ridge products have a lifetime warranty too. So this is literally the last wallet you'll ever have to buy. Additionally, I walk around with peace of mind knowing that the Ridge wallet has RFID blocking technology keeping my information safe from digital pickpocketers. Also, Ridge isn't just about wallets. They create premium everyday carry essentials like key cases, suitcases and rings all built with the same sleek durable design. No matter what you pick, Ridge has free shipping, a 99 day risk free trial and a lifetime warranty on all of their products. Right now Ridge is having their once a year anniversary sale get up to 40% [e-mail] Doug. Just go to ridge.com Doug to see their biggest sale of the year and after you purchase they'll ask where you heard about them. So please support our show and tell them we sent you, please. Oh, this was a great one. Who's talking about this.

[Filippo]

All right, we can share it.

[Doug DeMuro]

Trump and Elon were selling cars at the White House, folks. This is good content. This is good. God, the White House, the most storied building in the world. And this is the crappy awning they come up with, Right? The crappy temporary awning supported by metal poles.

[Filippo]

All right, I think we should give a little bit of context.

[Doug DeMuro]

Historic building, right?

[Kenan]

Yes. Yeah, exactly. The most powerful leaders in the world have been near this thing, and what the best they can come with something that looks like you're going into, like, a cheap restaurant.

[Doug DeMuro]

It really does. Cheap restaurant in New York. Mob money's running through it.

[Kenan]

Exactly.

[Doug DeMuro]

So the context is this. Elon Musk is working for Trump. They're trying to efficientize the government. They're not doing the greatest job so far, however, because now everybody hates Elon. And Tesla stock is tanking and the sales have been a complete disaster. Trump's out there saying, hey, my buddy Elon makes good cars. Like, let's get some cars. And so Trump reportedly bought a Tesla. Is that true?

[Filippo]

He has said that he would buy a Tesla. He said in a true Social, which is his social media platform, that it was what people were doing was illegal to. Not to denigrate the Tesla brand.

[Doug DeMuro]

Yeah.

[Filippo]

And that he would do a press release. I personally prefer the photo that also had a cybertruck.

[Doug DeMuro]

But do you know, on truth Social, when you retweet something, do you know what it's called? It's called a retruth.

[Kenan]

Christ.

[Filippo]

Whatever. I misspoke. That is on his social media platform, there's another one.

[Doug DeMuro]

The point is this. He's out there in front of some sort of Model S car designed in 2012 during another great Republican President, Barack Obama. No, I'm kidding.

[Filippo]

But they thought it once.

[Doug DeMuro]

That's what the hardcore libs think. And. And he's out there trying to tell people to buy a Tesla. I didn't read a lot of the news stories about this because the whole thing seemed kind of insane. But also, like, on Trump's brand, people are freaking out. And I'm like, do you remember that.

[Filippo]

From his first term, that photo of Trump with the Goya beans?

[Doug DeMuro]

Yeah, same.

[Filippo]

Same energy. And the.

[Kenan]

My pillow guy was the McDonald's he bought for the. That's more what this feels. That's the best one.

[Filippo]

All right, here's. Here's what we're talking about. But Tesla has increasingly. Tesla's always been really linked to Elon Musk. That made it really popular for A long, long, long, long time.

[Doug DeMuro]

Yeah.

[Filippo]

Now that Elon Musk has become very much associated with, let's call it conservative, maybe the alt right, depending on how you want to view it, that's impacted the brand.

[Doug DeMuro]

Yeah.

[Filippo]

Tesla market cap. So how much the brand is worth has about halved over the last month. Yeah, it was. It's now worth still just shy of $800 billion. It was worth about twice that.

[Doug DeMuro]

Still more than all the other car companies put together.

[Filippo]

But that's a precipitous, not fairly precipitous drop.

[Doug DeMuro]

Yeah.

[Filippo]

Which is why I think there's been some. President Trump had this photo op to try to support Elon's brand. We talked a lot last week about kind of where Tesla is at, and I think that still holds true. Tesla Stock is up today, 7%.

[Kenan]

Yeah.

[Doug DeMuro]

But it's. It's going on crazy rides because the market's going on crazy rides because the whole Trump situation. But I will tell you, it's an interesting situation. Tesla is no longer. I mean, we talked about this last week, but to really hammer the point home, the fact that the President is out there shilling Teslas in front of the White House. Yeah. That kind of adding a great look for this brand that formerly relied solely on, like, word of mouth and Elon's tweets to sell cars. Every. Every story I read is that sales numbers continue to decline significantly.

[Filippo]

They're in trouble with the Canadian government right now because of some tax credit.

[Kenan]

Oh, boy.

[Filippo]

I thought that was behavior.

[Doug DeMuro]

I thought that was odd. Two dealers sold 5,000 cars. Let me tell you something. Don't look too close at BMW, Mercedes Benz, Porsche at the end of the quarter, at the end of the year. Or any brand, honestly. Yeah, because we used to punch cars. You know, the dealers would punch cars as service owners or whatever to get some sales done. Maybe the dealer didn't need 5,000 service owners. But the point remains the car business. There are some. There are some shady moments in the car business. Okay. This isn't one of them. It's in the bright sunlight.

[Filippo]

Nice. It's kind of under the noning.

[Doug DeMuro]

Anyway, regardless, the main focus of this story is that Elon has probably hurt both his own personal brand and undoubtedly Tesla's brand by getting involved in the government. Politics are tough, regardless of how you want to go into it. And if you want. This is a good example of if you want to sell things, you probably shouldn't get political. The conservatives did this whole go woke, go broke thing and boycotted stuff, which was effective. This is kind of the same thing in the opposite direction. Maybe not as organized, but a lot of people are sitting around saying, I don't want to be a part of this. And a lot of stockholders are just anxious because they don't know where this is going to go and if it's going to get worse and it ain't pretty right now.

[Filippo]

And if you're a stockholder, especially a major one, you're responding both to sales declining quickly.

[Doug DeMuro]

Yeah.

[Filippo]

The EV market being iffy. Iffy in general. And then the political part on top of sales declining, which has just accelerated.

[Doug DeMuro]

Which is probably the biggest uncertainty for investors. Like, is there going to be another Elon Musk, you know, Hitler? Whether or not you agree with what happened, like the public perception was not great. That came out of that. And it's not great for the brand.

[Filippo]

Of course, the market cap is still 20x. What Ford says Ford.

[Doug DeMuro]

But Ford. But what is Ford having, really? The tempo. All right, give us our next news.

[Kenan]

All right. Yes. All right. So switching topics completely, there's a new Morgan. Now, you might look at this vehicle and think, wow, that looks a hell of a lot like the old Morgan. As all Morgans do.

[Doug DeMuro]

Yeah. It always has three windshield wipers.

[Kenan]

Yes, that's one. Yes, that is something that they're into. So this is the Morgan Super Sports and they're saying it's a ground up new development, new chassis, new fully aluminum body, et cetera. No wood. I know that's what you're thinking.

[Doug DeMuro]

He doesn't know.

[Kenan]

There's no. It is aluminium. And so as I like to say. But there are a couple of interesting things. One is this. It comes with this hard top, which evidently is something they haven't come with in the past. They were very proud of this. Made like a huge deal of it. Again, this is.

[Doug DeMuro]

Well, because I think that the previous one, the way to get a hardtop was you had to get the coupe.

[Kenan]

Well, they would do an. Yes. Or they would do an aftermarket. They would sell you a third party one from them. But they wouldn't build themselves. Well, this one they built themselves.

[Filippo]

The five people that work in Morgan must be so proud.

[Doug DeMuro]

Tell us the most important part.

[Kenan]

Well, the most important part really is how much it weighs.

[Doug DeMuro]

I was going to say the BMW power.

[Kenan]

The weight. Well, there are a couple different. So the Super Sport is powered by the B58 six cylinder, which everybody loves. That's what people say.

[Doug DeMuro]

That's the motor in the X3 M40.

[Kenan]

That's. Yeah, that's the six. That's the thing. Six cylinder. Yes. Okay. It's like one of the most ubiquitous.

[Filippo]

Powerful engine for a car that doesn't weigh anything.

[Kenan]

Well yes, because it weighs wet 2,579lbs wet. Crazy lightweight. But again it's because Morgan is such a low volume manufacturer they don't have to comply with certain regulations and so like they're able to make these cars.

[Doug DeMuro]

So you'll die in one how?

[Kenan]

Well yes, of course die in any car. But it's a zero to 60 in four seconds. 165 mile an hour top speed. Not huge numbers, but for Morgan.

[Doug DeMuro]

Tell us about the transmission. Yeah.

[Kenan]

Automatic only.

[Doug DeMuro]

They're not doing a stick at all.

[Kenan]

Not doing a manual.

[Doug DeMuro]

Isn't the whole point of this car that like it's an like the type of people buying this are like old school analog.

[Filippo]

They're getting old school analog kind of type of dudes are getting older.

[Doug DeMuro]

Yeah, but why would you buy one of these if you can't get a manual? Is it.

[Kenan]

I agree. It's about the experience.

[Doug DeMuro]

Isn't the whole thing about the experience? Like I could get a Cayman anywhere.

[Filippo]

Why did people swap automatics into first gen Vipers? Because they can't drive a manual anymore. Who does? A few.

[Doug DeMuro]

There are seven and five of them are for drag racing and two of them are for amputees. Got nothing to do with this.

[Kenan]

Right. He's over here saying they're all Maddox anyway is swapping them in an afternoon with a couple of cold ones. But yeah, they're saying they're going to try, I would imagine to produce 850of these a year. And they only produce about. Or they're sorry. They're gonna produce 200 years. They only produce 850 cars total a year.

[Filippo]

Well, I mean we don't know what else in their lineup.

[Kenan]

Oh, I do. So they're also. So they're doing this. They also a. So they're doing a four cylinder version too. And guess which one we're getting in the United States. The four cylinder. We're not getting the six cylinder. They're not going to sell it for now.

[Doug DeMuro]

I can't believe they're even going to attempt to sell this here at all.

[Kenan]

They allegedly they are trying. They spent millions and millions to get the four cylinder one compliant with US regulation.

[Filippo]

But these B58 sold here in 30 trillion cars.

[Kenan]

I understand. But evidently they're struggling to do four cylinder. The four. What do you mean?

[Filippo]

What engine is in a four cylinder?

[Kenan]

Also BMW engine. BMW Turbocharged four cylinder.

[Filippo]

So he doesn't know that I don't know the current price. He doesn't know.

[Doug DeMuro]

Who gives a. I don't care.

[Kenan]

He doesn't get into four.

[Doug DeMuro]

He doesn't get it. A four cylinder.

[Kenan]

No, but anyway. So the, the price if it were to be sold in the US would be $131,000.

[Doug DeMuro]

131 US for a four cylinder BMW powered automatic car. I could get a Z4 for like.

[Kenan]

60 for this one. It will be less for this one if it were to sell here. That's what they're saying. If they get it here, that's what it will sell for. That's the equivalent I'll sell on the inexplicable.

[Doug DeMuro]

How much? I would not buy this car inexplicable if it had three pedals and a six cylinder. And by six cylinder I mean turbo V8. I would consider it, but I don't.

[Kenan]

So you consider the previous Super Sport is what you're saying.

[Doug DeMuro]

And as you know, I went to the dealer several times, drove them, ultimately landed on a competitor. Okay, move on to the next news story. This is not really a predator. 200 cars a year. Yes. Ah.

[Kenan]

So Porsche has always been saying that a lot of manufacturers are rolling back Porsche. That doesn't mean they've stopped.

[Filippo]

No, Porsche was recently.

[Kenan]

Porsche was recently spotted testing their EV Cayenne Coupe. So like, yes, they might be saying that they are going to be making gasoline engines for a long time. Does not mean that development has stopped on EVs. I've told everybody that although we're seeing this, It's a stopgap. EVs seem to be the way things are going, but right now they're just not there yet. And it seems that Porsche is committing to that with their more utilitarian vehicles.

[Filippo]

I'm excited for this to look identical to the current.

[Doug DeMuro]

No, if that's it, it's not going to look identical. I know, but I don't know what this is. I guess the non coupe. But if that's what it is, then it's not going to look like somehow it will because every time looks like the Macan. The more of them I see, the more I'm like, that doesn't look any. They've somehow made a car that both simultaneously looks like the car and doesn't.

[Filippo]

Which is impressive.

[Doug DeMuro]

Which is also the new G Wagon. I remember when they revealed the g wagon in 18, I was like, that looks just like the old one. And now whenever I see one, I'm like, that doesn't look a thing like the old one.

[Filippo]

What are you thinking?

[Doug DeMuro]

You can't tell the G Wagon apartment. Of course I can. That's what I'm saying.

[Filippo]

I can.

[Doug DeMuro]

You can.

[Filippo]

My wife cannot.

[Doug DeMuro]

Okay, all right.

[Filippo]

I'm just being honest.

[Doug DeMuro]

This is a lot of news to digest, folks. I hope you figured it all out.

[Kenan]

Right. There's one more piece of news.

[Doug DeMuro]

Oh, God.

[Kenan]

This one. This one I like. So again, Formula one starts this weekend. There's a lot of hype building up to it. And one of the things is that Lewis Hamilton posted a video today on his Instagram. We filmed this today on his Instagram and it's on YouTube too, where Paramount Pictures spliced him into the Ferris Bueller movie, like, perfectly. It look, he. Evidently, he was a big fan of the movie. It's my favorite movie.

[Doug DeMuro]

Oh, he's the garage attendant.

[Kenan]

He's the garage attendant. Yeah. So he does the whole thing. He says, do you speak English? Goes, what country do you think this is? And, like, does that whole thing and drives off in the car. And they did, I mean, zoom up.

[Doug DeMuro]

To where he drives off in the car.

[Kenan]

They did a masterful job of it. But here's him get. I mean, look how perfect that is.

[Filippo]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Doug DeMuro]

He's talking.

[Kenan]

He's talking to Cameron and he's getting in the car and Cameron goes.

[Doug DeMuro]

Remember when Cameron crashed at Rivian a couple of weeks ago?

[Filippo]

Yeah.

[Kenan]

You don't have anything to worry about. I'm a professional.

[Doug DeMuro]

Keep going, keep going. Arrow us forward here. Ah, there. He takes the car off, takes the. Let's see him do the. The jump. Or do they not do it?

[Kenan]

They do the jump and they did the jump with the actor who plays.

[Doug DeMuro]

Oh, look at this.

[Kenan]

So there it goes, taking off.

[Doug DeMuro]

And look at that. Go back one, pause it.

[Kenan]

I know it's not Saab 900.

[Filippo]

Yeah.

[Doug DeMuro]

Look at this. Chicago in the, what, 88 Chrysler laser prism. This is a photo. And imagine seeing a long. A long wheelbase California spider driving down the.

[Kenan]

Fake or not. Yeah, exactly. Imagine. But, yep, here's the legendary scene where they're. They're doing, doing the jump and they, they.

[Doug DeMuro]

So Lewis Hamilton, Ferrari wanted to be part of this. The car was like, famously a fake.

[Kenan]

Yeah, exactly. But they wanted. Yeah, they were cool. Yeah, exactly. They wanted him to be in it. Lewis is passionate about it, so it's a fun way for them to, like, get kind of hyped up for the weekend, I think. But it's masterfully done. Yeah, like really really?

[Filippo]

Well, when I think about Ferrari, I think about cease and desist letters to somebody that tries, that tries to do this. But they might have a shot.

[Kenan]

But no, Lewis Hamilton comes to the team and guess what? He can do whatever he wants, including.

[Doug DeMuro]

Wear that cloak and live in Enzo's house. Okay, time for the talk Car segment. The talk car segment, of course, is brought to you by Filippo's mug. Filippo's mug.

[Kenan]

It was full. It is now empty.

[Filippo]

It is definitely between every single coffee.

[Doug DeMuro]

If it was him though, he leaves.

[Kenan]

Them on his desk. They coagulate.

[Doug DeMuro]

Okay, I want to talk about some of that. Yesterday we got a. Last week we got a question. What are your bad takes? And I want to give you a take that is great that everyone's going to hate.

[Filippo]

Oh, I surprisingly agree with this take.

[Doug DeMuro]

Okay, the take is as follows. Before we move on, let me tell you about Quince. Spring is here, which means my travel itch is back. Traveling comfortably can be the difference between having a good vacation or a bad one. And I'm preparing for my next trip with a first class quality suitcase and an economy price tag from Quince. This year I'm treating myself to the luxury upgrades I've been searching for with Quince's high quality travel essential at fair prices. Some examples include lightweight shirts and shorts from $30 pants for any occasion and comfortable lounge sets. Plus Quint has premium luggage options and durable duffel bags to carry it all. The best part, all Quint's Items are priced 50 to 80% less than similar brands. By partnering directly with top factories, Quints cuts out the cost to the middleman and passes the savings directly on to us. And Quince only works with factories that offer a safe, ethical, responsible manufacturing practice and pre premium fabrics and finishes, which is great. I'll be packing away my Quince sweaters for next winter and I really can't wait for my carry on bag to arrive for my trips this year. The colors available are unique and special and bag is absolutely perfect for a comfortable travel experience. For your next trip, treat yourself to the luxe upgrades you deserve from quince. Go to quince.com Doug for 365 day returns plus free shipping on your order. That's that's Q-U-I-N-C-E.com Doug to get free shipping and 365 day returns. Quince.com Doug it is unbelievable how often I hear from people that they want a 70 Series Toyota Land Cruiser. This is like the rallying cry of like American, like 22 year old car enthusiast who thinks he knows about analog. You know, this is like, are we on a 70 series? They give us all this stuff. It's so expensive with all this tech. We just want a 70 series. No, you don't. You want a four runner. That's my, that's my.

[Filippo]

Well, here's the take falls apart. Where does the take fall apart?

[Kenan]

Well, I want a 76.

[Filippo]

Okay.

[Doug DeMuro]

Why?

[Kenan]

Because I drove them for a month in Southern Africa. I drove it really hard because it was reliable, simple and easy.

[Doug DeMuro]

Simple.

[Filippo]

Wrong.

[Doug DeMuro]

If you can, why don't you pull up the Australian pricing of the 70? I'm just kind of curious what it costs Australian pricing. Well, that's where they, that's where people talk about them coming from. I don't know. You want to look up Venezuelan pricing? Can you read Venezuelan? You know, everybody always says like the 70 series should be sold in America because it's this bare bones work truck. And it'd be so cool to just have only the basics as a cheap 30 grand work truck. This truck is not 30 grand in any market where it is conceptualized or sold.

[Filippo]

How do they charge that much?

[Doug DeMuro]

Because that's what it costs to make a vehicle. The Americans have this concept that we're getting screwed on 70 Series Land Cruisers because they're selling them for $14,000 in other markets. They are tremendously expensive cars overseas they cost the same as a 4Runner. And by the way, you know what the 4Runner is durable, simple and reliable. I can fix like it always has been.

[Kenan]

I can fix that with a hammer. You can't fix A forerunner.

[Doug DeMuro]

A 4th gen 4runner with halogen headlights and no screen. You can fix it. Fix it with a hammer. You can fix it by looking at it and asking it nicely to be fixed.

[Kenan]

There's a reason, when I was out there, all I saw on the road, all I saw, because they don't have.

[Filippo]

The four, they don't have the Forerunner.

[Doug DeMuro]

That's the reason the 4Runner sold here. Nobody's like, we want the 70 Series. Okay, fine. You want the 70 Series to get this to comply with U.S. regs would add another 10 grand to the price. But you know, let's pretend it didn't even have to comply. You're spending, what was it, 52 grand for a worse vehicle. Pull up a picture of a 70 series interior. You know this doesn't have side airbags.

[Filippo]

Yeah.

[Doug DeMuro]

This is not a safe or rational car.

[Filippo]

A 4Runner is objectively a better vehicle.

[Doug DeMuro]

But it is objectively better in every single way. Look at this one. Click on this one. Look at this. This is like.

[Kenan]

Yeah.

[Doug DeMuro]

And everybody's like, it's old school. I love old school. Okay, we'll spend 20% more for a worse car. No one would actually do it. That's the thing about the 70s.

[Filippo]

Here's what I think it reveals. It reveals that people want cars that look rugged.

[Doug DeMuro]

Yeah.

[Filippo]

And simple. And are maybe okay at some price point, accepting, like, a very simple interior. Which is also why the.

[Doug DeMuro]

No one would buy this car.

[Filippo]

Of course not. Which is also why the Jimny is as popular as it is. It's like, it kind of did that.

[Doug DeMuro]

Right.

[Filippo]

Simple Jimmy is more simple interior. Because that's what people actually think this is. They're wrong about what it is.

[Doug DeMuro]

They're wrong about what it is, what.

[Filippo]

They think it is.

[Doug DeMuro]

If you talk to any American, if you go communities of people who just sort of get their news from word of mouth, they will tell you that Toyota is screwing us by. By not offering a Land cruiser in the US that is bare bones and $30,000. The truth of the matter is they are giving us the Forerunner, which is a gift, because if they were giving us this instead, it would be thousands of dollars more. By the way, none of the people who are complaining about this would ever buy any of these vehicles new. And the 70 series is. Is worse.

[Filippo]

But image matters so much. And I think this reveals that people want the image. People want to feel like they're in.

[Doug DeMuro]

Safari and you know what?

[Filippo]

Want to feel that way.

[Doug DeMuro]

Anybody who loves the 70 series, if they want to talk image, let's talk image. Let's admit that what they really want is the image of a basic offer.

[Filippo]

And that's why you buy.

[Kenan]

The reason why. I mean, look, if I could get the. The 70 series are also important. But you can get an older.

[Filippo]

Yeah, now you can.

[Kenan]

The difference was the reason why I genuinely. Well, there are a lot of reasons why I haven't genuinely pursued it. But the big one is like, I remember driving around in Africa looking at animals, like, way out in the savannah. I poured water up to the windshield. I did all the things you do with a Land Cruiser. What am I going to do here? Drive around the desert and look at guys and raptors, like, crashing. Like, it's not the same. Like, the point was, it made sense in the context where I wanted to use it, which is in Africa.

[Doug DeMuro]

You know what you could get a Forerunner. Can do both.

[Kenan]

Why don't.

[Doug DeMuro]

For less money.

[Kenan]

Yeah, but the 70 series is just Straight up cooler.

[Doug DeMuro]

Yeah, exactly.

[Kenan]

Because we can't have.

[Doug DeMuro]

And so I think it's finally time for all the people who talk about The Bare Bones 70 series, how great it is to finally admit, and you can admit it in the comments, that what you really want is the image of a 70 series. You don't actually want the bare bones truck. You don't actually want the stripped down interior. You want something that looks like you're a mountain man.

[Filippo]

Yes, of course.

[Kenan]

Well, it's a Savannah man.

[Filippo]

But why do you think people make. I'm looking at a first gen Cayenne Trans Siberia. Why do people make replicas of that? Because what they want is the image.

[Doug DeMuro]

What people talk about is they want a basic car they can work on with a hammer. That's what they say they would never work on their car. What they actually want is not that. Because they were given that in the form of the 5th gen Forerunner. By the way, a lot of those people did buy it.

[Filippo]

There are people who realize this for 15 years.

[Doug DeMuro]

Yeah. The point is, the 70 series is absolutely not the vehicle you want. You want a 4Runner and you should go get one, new or old, because they're both great.

[Kenan]

Or save your money. Just go to go on a African vacation and rent a 70 series. Like I didn't have the true experience.

[Doug DeMuro]

That is fun. Save your money. Do it. Go to go to Africa for three weeks. Go on safari.

[Filippo]

You don't need a car.

[Doug DeMuro]

$25,000 when you come back, you walk.

[Kenan]

You have a car already. You want to have the 70. 70 Series experience? Go do it out there.

[Doug DeMuro]

Sell a car and spend two weeks in Africa. That is Kenan's top tip for the day.

[Kenan]

That's my hot take.

[Doug DeMuro]

Okay, we have a couple more car segments we got to get through, starting with the cars and bids. Adventure cars. Go to them, please.

[Filippo]

We have.

[Doug DeMuro]

Tell us about them.

[Filippo]

A Cayenne turbo and a E30NM5 that are both live on cars and beds. That are the cars that you saw us drive in our little desert adventure series.

[Doug DeMuro]

Okay, so the Desert Adventure series we did months ago. I don't know why we're only selling these cars now. They're on the site. You can buy them and they're available. They're both right over there. No reserve. They're no reserve. We want them out of here.

[Filippo]

We want them out of here. I also want to be really clear. These are cars that we drove fairly long distances that also have a lot of flaws. I wanted to be really transparent about that.

[Kenan]

Oh, yeah.

[Filippo]

Doug raced them in the desert.

[Kenan]

I went through the E39 myself and wrote this list of flaws. I'm sure there are other ones that I can probably find too.

[Doug DeMuro]

Wow. What is. Okay, can we find the most ridiculous?

[Filippo]

Yeah, the center support bearing clinking on drive away. Quite a sentence.

[Kenan]

Yeah.

[Doug DeMuro]

It's center support bearings on drive away.

[Kenan]

Yep. Center support bearings is a part that supports the driveshaft and is. And it clinks when it fails.

[Doug DeMuro]

How about wear on interior touch points?

[Kenan]

Well, that's just general. Some of these are general ones that we normally put in them. And there. There are. There's where. Steering wheel. There's wear on the seats. There's where. On the shifter. There's where. You know.

[Filippo]

Good. You said there's very various chips and scratches throughout, but especially on the driver's side front fender. Why Doug?

[Kenan]

There's a smooth brained, knuckle dragging troglodyte put his shoes on there. It wasn't Matt. It was you.

[Doug DeMuro]

I stood on one of the cars.

[Kenan]

Or all the cars I have a photograph of. I'm. Doesn't matter. I lost my mind.

[Doug DeMuro]

You went over a TV with. You drove over a TV with this car.

[Kenan]

Car at a quarter of a mile an hour.

[Doug DeMuro]

I didn't drive over a TV with a flat screen.

[Kenan]

That was in a place that you decided to film.

[Doug DeMuro]

Kenan. You're gonna run over a whole movie theater with it.

[Kenan]

Good, Good one.

[Filippo]

If you want either of the cars and please go watch the video so you see how they perform. You see that The Cayenne won a lot of challenges.

[Kenan]

I will say that.

[Filippo]

Five, one. None. You can go watch all that and then go bed and buy.

[Kenan]

Yes.

[Doug DeMuro]

And by the way, plastic toy fuel gauge doesn't work. A lot of stuff's broken. We bought these cars because we had a filming schedule and we had to buy them like the weekend before. You don't go thinking that because we. Cars. There's something to be very clear. But you can have a part of filming history. Sorry, of video history.

[Filippo]

Yep.

[Doug DeMuro]

Well, okay, Kenan, tell us about Amelia Island.

[Kenan]

Yes. So I went to the Amelia and Concour de. Or the Amelia, as it's known. And it got rained out on Sunday. They had to push everything forward to Saturday. So I.

[Doug DeMuro]

The whole. The main event got rained out.

[Kenan]

Yes. I mean. And it was a deluge. It was. It was a ton of rain. So it's a good thing they moved it. There were Delahays there. It was. It has lost the magic from when it once was in my Opinion, like, it feels a lot more corporatized. It feels like not as. When I used to go. It was like there was always a sense of, like, it was. It was really, really special. And it was also like, you could walk up to anybody until everybody had their guard down. It wasn't pebble beach, where it was really cutthroat and really strict. And there's a lot of pressure for your car to succeed because you've spent millions of dollars getting it prepared. And the people have done the same thing with these cars, but it's a little bit more relaxed. It used to be the first Concorde event of the year, of the season, and people were really excited. This just did not feel that way this time around, and it hasn't for the last three. And the other issue is that there's now another event that is the week that precedes it called Moda, and that has split audiences between people. They either have to pick to go to one or the other, or they have to stay in Florida the entire time. I talked to somebody who went there as a dealer who we know. Matt Ivanhoe went to Moda. Cause he asked her for business. Had to go back to his house to celebrate his daughter's birthday. Went back to Amelia island, and then back to his house again.

[Filippo]

That seems better.

[Kenan]

The In Connecticut.

[Filippo]

Yeah, that's sounds like a normal week.

[Doug DeMuro]

So what do we do?

[Kenan]

It's tough for if. For don't. I mean, sure, a normal week, but for the same thing.

[Filippo]

Yeah, I know.

[Kenan]

It's.

[Doug DeMuro]

So, what are you gonna do?

[Kenan]

Well, I've heard rumblings that one of the auctions may or may not be moving to Moda next year. And if that is true, then Emilian is done for me. Oh, wow.

[Doug DeMuro]

You know, I haven't been to a million years, but, God, I loved it. It was wonderful. Yeah.

[Kenan]

You were there when it was still good. I saw you wearing a suit.

[Doug DeMuro]

Rare. I judged an event. I judged an event.

[Filippo]

I've seen Doug wearing a suit twice.

[Doug DeMuro]

My wedding was the other.

[Filippo]

My. My wedding was the other time.

[Doug DeMuro]

That was a nice day. Yeah, it was in Baltimore. It was hot.

[Filippo]

I made him buy it, send him a link.

[Kenan]

I had him bring a tie to our friend Sam. I had to bring him a spare tie because I knew he would forget for a friend. Sam's wedding.

[Doug DeMuro]

Well, forget. I mean, who wears a tie to a wedding? Anyway, the point. It's not a funeral.

[Kenan]

It was pink. I did it.

[Doug DeMuro]

On God's sake. Anyway, the point is, Amelia, did you see cars? You see a 911 GT1.

[Kenan]

I did see a competition GT1 that was there.

[Doug DeMuro]

What was your favorite car that you saw?

[Kenan]

Ah, I finally have seen one. I've waited to check this car for a long time, but I finally saw a Sterling Moss finally open roof that.

[Doug DeMuro]

Wasn'T being driven around in the deluge, right?

[Kenan]

Yep, exactly. That thing was on a truck and long gone by the time the rain came, as most cars were. But it was cool to see the doors go up and the guy like drive it to it, won an award and drove up to an accepted award and stuff like that.

[Doug DeMuro]

There was a little, I don't know, weirdest, weirdest car.

[Kenan]

Yes. Most obscure Mercedes. But I did see a low body countach. There were some things that were cool but like it just not enough. Not enough. The showing was not nearly as good as it has been in the past really. And the cars and coffee event, which is what I like to see. A lot of people bring their own cars and you pay to do this, by the way. That event just got straight up canceled. And so it was. Radwood was there and so you got to do that, which was cool. And one of our coworkers actually won an award with her Mitsubishi fto which was. Was sick. But the cars and coffee event was not. Didn't happen. So like. Yeah, and it just like it. It gets more and more expensive every year and it just is more and more tied down and there more. There's more red tape around it and this happens with most events, to be honest with you. But it was like palpable compared to where I started. This is my eighth one and so like it was better in the beginning.

[Doug DeMuro]

That's sad.

[Kenan]

That's how I feel about. And I was not alone in that feeling.

[Doug DeMuro]

Well, I, I got to go back and decide for myself or go to the living or.

[Kenan]

Yeah. Get you to float.

[Doug DeMuro]

I did have a. Yeah, I'm not gonna do it.

[Kenan]

I also will say thank you to everybody who. Who came up and like said hello. People really like listening to the podcast and thank you, Daniel, for the old fashioned. That was very kind, but it was, it was. It's always nice to run into people. I like going because I know people in the industry.

[Filippo]

Yeah, you actually enjoy talking to me.

[Doug DeMuro]

Do people come up to you and ask Ethereum 5 questions?

[Kenan]

Sometimes, yeah. Sometimes, yeah. But people. Yeah, they are the ones people have asked about both of you. My line with you was I would have brought Doug but he doesn't fit very well into my luggage. So I couldn't bring him to this.

[Filippo]

What a line.

[Doug DeMuro]

How sweet.

[Kenan]

Yes.

[Doug DeMuro]

Yeah, I don't travel. Okay, we gotta do our last talk car segment, which is the photo shoot. Can you go to it now? We talked about this last week. We took my cars off to the beach for a photo shoot, and we drove them on the beach, which was odd. I want to just shout out the photographer Frank. Frank takes a lot of pictures of cars on cars and bids and he took these pictures. His Instagram is the photographer's garage. And he is one of the greatest living automotive photographers. One of the great. I have three. I got Alex Penfold, Robert Grubbs, who's also around here and took photos of my cars. I'm gonna post it on Instagram and then from. Frank is a genius, as you can see from this photo Now, Filippo photo that he took. Go to the next one. Look at that G Wagon there. We took the G Wagon out. It was probably a good thing.

[Kenan]

Yeah, probably just the sports cars.

[Doug DeMuro]

This is real, Filippo. This is real. This is real. I'm there. Filippo was there. We took these pictures in meth central.

[Kenan]

It's where I ran over the tv. It's a breeze. Yeah.

[Doug DeMuro]

Yeah. Needless to say, we didn't run over any TVs on this day.

[Filippo]

No.

[Doug DeMuro]

Did we not go to the last picture? There's some good stuff here. There's a lot of different angles and shots and shoots and. But there's some good stuff here. And Frank. A huge, huge shout out to Frank, one of the most gifted photographers this side of a camera. Go back to the side of a DSLR to the other one, man.

[Filippo]

There's one that's slightly different, though.

[Doug DeMuro]

This is better because the G is. Look. This is a great image.

[Filippo]

It's a great image.

[Doug DeMuro]

This is Frank. This is like the. When you think of Frank and dream of Frank, this is what you think his talents will be used for.

[Filippo]

Am I being blamed for parking the Ford GT too far forward?

[Doug DeMuro]

No, because there's other angles where the GT is more visible. Like the next one. The next one, it's fully visible. I just preferred. I like the shot with the G cab because it adds a little humor to the whole thing.

[Filippo]

It does.

[Doug DeMuro]

I want to take a moment to tell you about another podcast you should absolutely check out, Drive with Jim Farley. Ford CEO Jim Farley talks to some of his favorite people about what they drive and what drives them to succeed. He has great guests on the show like the British racing driver, driver Vicki Butler Henderson, and one of my favorite people, Jay Leno. I've checked out a few episodes of Drive with Jim Farley and I really love to hear his insights. There was a time when we only got to hear from automotive CEOs and press quotes and carefully worded corporate statements. But Jim Farley's podcast is personal and it really shows his passion for cars, which is really cool. And this is a podcast I'm certainly going to keep in my listening routine. Click the link in the description box to listen to Drive with Jim Farley today. Okay, we gotta talk. Market report, Market report. Market report. The market report is brought to you by the Cars and Bids app. To download it, you do something. We don't have enough time to tell the. I don't know. I don't know what you do. We gotta, we gotta move on. Okay. The. Okay, we gotta talk. F355. Pull it up, folks.

[Kenan]

Yes.

[Doug DeMuro]

I'm not even talking about closed auctions today because there's two cars that we have to talk about. This is one of the great auctions we've ever run. Yep. Someone submits this to us. This is a Euromarket F355 GTS stick, which is one of the most desirable Ferraris. Like in the recent years. It has had a huge come up.

[Kenan]

Well, not only that, it's blue.

[Doug DeMuro]

It's blue. It's an unusual color. It's a very special color. So here we have all the great benefits. Euromarket355 GTS. The most desirable body style stick, gated manual blue. I mean, it's like everything you want. However, this has, this car has Mississippi flood title.

[Filippo]

Yeah.

[Doug DeMuro]

And it's located in Mississippi.

[Filippo]

Yeah.

[Doug DeMuro]

And so God knows. And it's no reserve, by the way. And I think this is one of the most exciting auctions we've ever run in our entire history of running auctions.

[Filippo]

Such a desirable car.

[Doug DeMuro]

Who knows what's going to happen with a flood.

[Filippo]

Tight.

[Doug DeMuro]

I commented, I think this auction has everything. It's got this gated manual, Ferrari special color GTS flood title. No reserve, Ms. is involved. This is it. This is it.

[Filippo]

This is it.

[Doug DeMuro]

This is. Is it. Now, seller claims car runs. I mean, he drives, he's got videos. Who knows, you know, I mean, it's, it was in a flood. It, it's the all. He replaced the fuse box. He said that's all it needed. Who knows? There's no pictures of it flooded. There's, you know, there's no, there's no accounting of it. Generally speaking, flooded cars. The person who owns it wants it totaled out immediately. Because they don't want to screw with that stuff.

[Filippo]

It.

[Doug DeMuro]

It either gives the opportunity for an amazing bargain to someone or a lifetime of headaches. And that's the dice roll you're making with this car. And I love it.

[Kenan]

Well, an FT55.5, as I can attest, is a lifetime, regardless of whether it's perfect or not. But this is a really compelling, like, opportunity to own what is an really desirable car.

[Doug DeMuro]

We. We googled the vin and there's pictures from, like, the insurance auction after it dried out. It doesn't look like it had been underwater. Certainly the whole car, wasn't it. The fuse box was replaced, which is in the passenger foot. Well, low in the car. Like, it could have gotten only a foot of water and damaged that. That even then, we felt the carpets didn't look like they had been submerged. But.

[Filippo]

But if you're the owner of a 355 that gets any amount of water.

[Doug DeMuro]

Yeah.

[Filippo]

You would also want to want to just get the.

[Doug DeMuro]

This is your opportunity to get a retail payout for the car, right? Yes.

[Kenan]

Yes. Unless you have Doug do a video on yours, that is your opportunity.

[Doug DeMuro]

I just, I, I, I. This is a complete variable car. But I got to say, I'm sitting there thinking, I want this thing. Like, I want to roll the D. I sent it to Hooby and I was like, dude, you got to buy this because this is you. This is just you. Like, this is the best version of this really cool and special car, but also the worst ver. Like, nobody knows. And this is you. Hoovy, you gotta buy this thing. The High bid is 6, 9, 4, 2. And so I assume Hoovy is the high bidder at the current moment.

[Filippo]

Are you gonna bid?

[Doug DeMuro]

I'm not. I'm not gonna bid.

[Filippo]

Karen bid is not Hoovy, but he's missing out.

[Doug DeMuro]

I told Hoovy to get in on this. He better.

[Kenan]

Anyway, quite a desirable car.

[Doug DeMuro]

Where do you think this ends up? I mean, nice ones, non flood are 200. 250 for. Yeah. Euros. Euros. Euros.

[Kenan]

Euros are a little less, but not. Maybe not, but they aren't often blue.

[Doug DeMuro]

But also, people don't care as much about GTSs when it comes to Euros because finding a stick GTS is hard enough. The euro thing is, like, less of a deal now, especially because they're 25 and you can drive them anywhere. Nobody California, except California.

[Kenan]

Yeah.

[Doug DeMuro]

Montana. Nobody cares.

[Kenan]

Right. Right. But I don't know. I still get a feeling I was saying yesterday that I expected brings in the 80s oh, my God.

[Doug DeMuro]

I'd buy it.

[Kenan]

I'm saying it brings in the hundreds now. I think it's going to crest 100,000.

[Filippo]

Because like such an unknown though.

[Kenan]

I know, exactly. But like a. A good one is 2.5 times more expensive.

[Doug DeMuro]

Right. And you don't get blue.

[Kenan]

And you don't get blue. So like I, I suspect this is.

[Doug DeMuro]

A driver you ever wanted to drive one you can. But here's an opportunity.

[Filippo]

The good ones you're also buying with some expectation of appreciation. And how long do you have to wait for a flex title card to appreciate?

[Doug DeMuro]

Is a. Is a stick gated GTS that. That 250 really going to. Got a lot of legs.

[Kenan]

I mean there just aren't that A lot of them are burned to the ground.

[Filippo]

One, two, maybe if there's like water.

[Kenan]

They aren't common. Like the Brunetta, which is the most beautiful, we can agree. And the Spyder are the least desirable. But the most successful. They built the most of them. They're around. GTSs just aren't common.

[Doug DeMuro]

GTS in a cool color. I'm telling you, this has it all. This is one of the most interesting auctions you've ever run if you follow cars like this. It's very interesting. Now on the subject of Ferraris. Yes.

[Kenan]

Now if you want. So this one a driver. You want one that's a minter. There's another one that we have on the site that is unbelievable. So I flew to Dallas to see this car and it's 1982.

[Filippo]

Fly to Texas.

[Kenan]

You're like, you're. If I'm not seeing my relatives, you're asking a lot. And so this car, 1982, 3.8GTSI. Now you recently drove a 1982 3, 8 GTSI. Wonderful little car to drive. Yours had like tons of miles. A driver, real driver. This one, I cannot describe to you how perfect.

[Doug DeMuro]

Have you looked at the pictures?

[Filippo]

No.

[Doug DeMuro]

Go to the interior pictures. I mean it's beautiful on the outside. It's. It should be mentioned. It's only 1900 miles.

[Kenan]

Yeah. So 1000.

[Doug DeMuro]

Yeah.

[Kenan]

I had. I think when I Left it was 1925 when I left it, but still like. Yeah, right around.

[Doug DeMuro]

So the exterior is beautiful. The car's in perfect shape. It's. Etc. But the interior, because the thing about 308s, people are going to look at this. People who don't know that well are going to say, oh, it's a Ferrari. Of course, it's nicely kept. But the thing about 308s is a lot of them were used. And so it's very rare that you see a really nice 308 interior. I've never seen anything like this.

[Kenan]

I've. I haven't either. I've seen a lot of 308. I mean, to your point, they built over 10,000 of these cars. It was a very successful car and.

[Doug DeMuro]

It'S been for a long time the most affordable good Ferrari. And so if you wanted to buy a good Ferrari and use it, you. You got free weight. And then. So then the seats got creased.

[Kenan]

Not, not this one. Like, I. You know how picky I am. Everybody has that. I went around this car with a magnifying glass looking for stuff. And I'm not just saying this because it's on the site. I'm saying this like as an academic, I could not find anything that was wrong with it.

[Filippo]

It's.

[Doug DeMuro]

Keep going. It's unbelievable. It really is unbelievable.

[Kenan]

I did a video on this, which you can go and watch on the cars and bids YouTube channel. And a lot of people said, I, I can't stand the cars that aren't driven. It's like. Well, I get that too, but. But like, the reality of this car is, is that, like, it's nice to have ones that are preserved exactly as they left the car.

[Doug DeMuro]

And there aren't many 308s. You know, I get when people say that about f 40s because every f40 is preserved like that. I honestly think that this car is maybe is more special in a lot of ways than a regular 308 because there aren't any like this. When I had my NAS Defender, I drove the crap out of it and I off road it and went through puddles and it got in the sand. But when a perfect one would come up, I would be so excited because it's like, wow, here's an example of how this car was always. They don't exist anymore. That wasn't how people did this.

[Kenan]

No, exactly.

[Doug DeMuro]

It's so cool to see.

[Kenan]

This car's background is fascinating because it was owned by a guy who had a successful computer company on Long island, donated it to the Watkins Glen Racing Museum, and it sat there forever until it was raffled off. A woman won this car for 100 bucks and then she didn't know what to do with it because it had no miles.

[Doug DeMuro]

When was this? When did she win it?

[Kenan]

This was like 2007, I think. 2008. I mentioned it somewhere else. I mentioned it in the listing somewhere.

[Doug DeMuro]

So what did she do?

[Kenan]

So she. Yeah. So here's the history. So then. Or it was 2013.

[Doug DeMuro]

13. She wrapped.

[Kenan]

So then she sold it to somebody who then sold it to the current owners. Had the car for the last 10 years. But this car was also like. Again, the other things about this car, real quick just to point out, it has classy case certification, which. No. 3.

[Doug DeMuro]

Very rare for three. 8.

[Kenan]

It's very expensive and hard to do because you have to go to a Classic K dealer. They take hundreds of pictures of the car. They take stuff apart to take pictures of it. They send it to the factory. If they need more pictures, you got to bring the car back. They got to do it again. And then it go. All of that goes to the factory. They pull your file out of the archives because Ferrari has all. Every car has a file. They pull it out, check everything against that, and only then can you get Classic CK certification, which I found out. Piero Ferrari still signs all of those documents himself.

[Doug DeMuro]

Piero does, yeah.

[Kenan]

Which.

[Doug DeMuro]

This car has Enzo's son.

[Kenan]

Enzo's son.

[Filippo]

Wow.

[Doug DeMuro]

Wild.

[Kenan]

But this car has it. It's just crazy rare on these cars. And it's genuinely. I know the driver ones are what we like normally, but I wanted to experience. What the hell is this thing? Like new. And it was. Is sublime. It still drove great. It was still a lot of fun. It turned me onto the, like. I would definitely consider, like, even a gtsi. It's just.

[Filippo]

I am.

[Doug DeMuro]

I will say I'm very curious where it ends up in terms of pricing. Not a lot of comps.

[Kenan]

No, none. Like, none. Because it's. It's an incredibly low. It's a really desirable version of, like, kind of the. The lowest version.308. Because everybody wants a Vetter Azena, the carbureted fiberglass cars, or they want a qv. They don't often gravitate toward this model, but. But you will not find another one that's, like, in this condition.

[Filippo]

It's the nicest one, period.

[Doug DeMuro]

It is.

[Filippo]

It is the nicest one, but maybe not the most desirable.

[Kenan]

I put five miles on it. I felt so guilty, but it was so good.

[Doug DeMuro]

I know. Same with the Intimidator. Monte Carlo.

[Kenan]

Yes. I also put three miles on that.

[Doug DeMuro]

I drove that around, and I was like, oh, my God. And I actually have to take it back outside because I forgot to shoot B roll. And I'm like, oh, God. I put four more miles on it. And by four, I mean one. Maybe I'll shoot in the alley. Last thing I wanted to. This is an incredible Car. The other one is. Dude, I Want to talk 981. Cuz you get that on here and we should discuss it. Pull up.

[Filippo]

Just type in 981. Either. Go.

[Doug DeMuro]

Just type in 981 because it's interesting to look at. I. All right.

[Filippo]

986 boxers, which is a first generation boxer, are 7 to 12 grand. Like the nicest ones. I have long hoped that the 981 boxers.

[Doug DeMuro]

Yeah.

[Filippo]

Which is like the most modern pre four cylinder boxer, would come down in price.

[Doug DeMuro]

Yeah.

[Filippo]

And they have.

[Doug DeMuro]

It is.

[Filippo]

I disagree with your take on.

[Doug DeMuro]

Go back up.

[Filippo]

Go back up.

[Doug DeMuro]

No, no, no, no to this, to that. Black one's 23.

[Filippo]

I know that was a specific example, but that's the lowest one we've sold.

[Kenan]

Super base wheels.

[Doug DeMuro]

What's some. What's a. What's a. Yeah, It's Nicki Mina. Oof. 114. Okay.

[Filippo]

And I. There was some story there. I can't remember what it was.

[Doug DeMuro]

This is what happens to Porsches. They depreciate slowly, but it's not depreciate.

[Filippo]

I know, but I want to depreciate quickly. But I want one because I want one and I feel like it should depreciate faster than it is depreciated.

[Doug DeMuro]

The thing about it is. Here's the thing about it. There's a couple reasons it's not gonna. Number one, I know the turbo flat four was not more desirable.

[Filippo]

The 718 Boxsters came right after.

[Doug DeMuro]

Number two. It's a pretty modern car. The tech is pretty modern. There's still desirability. And number three, like 987.2s aren't really losing a lot of value either. Like, there's not a lot of room for this thing to. To decline much.

[Filippo]

Annoying.

[Kenan]

It's just.

[Doug DeMuro]

But depreciate for the 19,000th time, the whole. The benefit of a car that isn't depreciating quickly is, is that you can buy it and sell it without losing much money in it. Filippo, he only thinks about purchase price.

[Kenan]

Only thing.

[Doug DeMuro]

Yeah, he only thinks about purchase price. Something could be. Something could be 10 grand. And he loses the whole thing. And he's like, yeah, but it was only ten grand. Meanwhile, you. I spent a million dollars on a car, sell it for a million dollars, lose nothing in a better position. And Filippo's over here like, yeah, but you had to spend a million dollars. It wasn't spent well.

[Filippo]

There's an opportunity cost that you're not mentioning.

[Doug DeMuro]

You lost the ten Grand.

[Filippo]

I've never lost ten grand.

[Doug DeMuro]

Would you just buy the car?

[Filippo]

I. I maybe event sh. I think I just want it to be a little bit cheaper than they are. For a little while, they were falling right after co. Like in the last two years they've been falling. They haven't kept going.

[Doug DeMuro]

I am actually doing a video on best performance car bargains right now. And I'm. I'm putting this car on the list. Wow.

[Filippo]

With.

[Doug DeMuro]

Because I think if. If. Look at the last two. Go back. Look at the last two. Both around 30. They're PDK. But PDK is a great transmission. And manuals are not dramatically more expensive. If you look.

[Filippo]

Click on lowest price grand.

[Doug DeMuro]

That one's $23,000.

[Filippo]

Well, that one was like, there's a price.

[Doug DeMuro]

The manuals are selling $23,000. 25. There's one for 25. They're not dramatically more. Because the market likes PDK. It's. It doesn't love PDK the same way it loves the. But these cars are not that much more expensive. That's the color, by the way. Put good wheels on that car. I know.

[Filippo]

I. I regretted not.

[Doug DeMuro]

That's red top. That is the dream. That is the. The launch spec.

[Filippo]

Very close to bidding on that.

[Doug DeMuro]

Good lord.

[Filippo]

The side of the red steering wheel was a bit much for me, but I came really close.

[Doug DeMuro]

No, this is the dream.

[Kenan]

I know people like that.

[Doug DeMuro]

When I worked at Porsche, I ordered one just like this and a red top.

[Filippo]

Yeah.

[Doug DeMuro]

This was the launch color like you said.

[Kenan]

Yeah.

[Filippo]

But the point is, Kevin and I drove 981. A 981 boxer for the money tip. And it was. The chassis was so good.

[Doug DeMuro]

Chassis so good for the money. This is a really desirable car.

[Kenan]

I dream of.

[Filippo]

I want it to be like 20.

[Doug DeMuro]

The spider's great, but a regular is pretty good too.

[Kenan]

I think you get an S. Okay.

[Filippo]

We can get an S. We have.

[Doug DeMuro]

To move on to questions. We have to. The question segment today is very good because I've again, I've just decided to stop answering only the highest ordered questions, which led to a lot of the same people asking questions the moment we posted the thing.

[Filippo]

I think you've explained this three weeks in a row. We're good.

[Doug DeMuro]

No, it's important because people still complain. And now I've only decided to answer the best questions and the most controversial. Those are the ones I like the best.

[Filippo]

You do like controversial.

[Doug DeMuro]

And Kenan, there's some great questions this week. I have questions for all of us.

[Kenan]

Okay.

[Doug DeMuro]

First question from Too slow for you, Doug, I work in the automotive industry. Someone I work with, we used to work with you at Porsche. They told me you ordered a bunch of manual Cayennes and Cayman Rs without air conditioning for the press fleet and then left the country is company. Is that true? You ordered a bunch of manual Cayennes and Cayman Rs without air conditioning for the press fleet and then left the company. Is that true? Well, first off, I've told this story like a bunch of times in videos. You couldn't order manual Kayin without air conditioning. So that is obviously not true. Although the guy who was the head of PR at the time, Nick Torque, who now works at Lucid, he ordered a manual Cayenne for the press. That was his decision and it was brilliant and I'm glad he did it. The Cayman Orr incident was indeed true. I didn't leave the company right after, but I was given the order sheet, I still remember it to this day, by the PR department for the press fleet of the Cayman rs. And they had listed all the option. It was a spreadsheet. They had listed all the option codes and listed what all the options were, but they did not list the option code for air conditioning. They just wrote air conditioning. And I ordering the car just went down the list of the option codes because that's how you order the car. And I just didn't. I mean, it was my mistake, but also kind of their mistake. We both owned up to it. The result was seven Cayman Rs without air conditioning were made. Peridot, high spec cars, PCC, every option, but no AC. And needless to say, those cars were hard to put down. But it was not entirely my fault. I think it was a 50, 50 fault issue between me and the PR people. I don't know why they left off the air conditioning option code and put on every other one. And I should have read it a little closer and seen it. Probably the car shouldn't have been built like that either. And also I used to print off the build sheet and hand them to the PR people every time I'd build the car. So I think that they got the build sheet, but they probably just assumed AC was on the car, which would have been a good assumption because typically to delete it, that was its own option and not to add it. But either way, I didn't leave the company right after. And honestly, the cars were pretty well received. The real problem was when the press fleet was done, we had to figure out where to sell them. And that's harder. But there's like 10 or 12 paradox Cayman Rs out there. High spec Cayman RS with no AC. And if you have one of those, you have a four former president.

[Filippo]

A lighter car, which Motor Trend would have loved when they waited.

[Doug DeMuro]

Lighter car, except it had every option on.

[Kenan]

But honestly, if you have one of those, reach out because we'd love to know where.

[Doug DeMuro]

We sent them all to the Northwest. San Francisco, Seattle, Portland. We sent them all to the northwest. But even then they were probably tough sells. And of course, that was 13 years. So Cayman R was 2000.

[Filippo]

Color is a tough sell on its own.

[Doug DeMuro]

Yeah, I think they were all paradox. There may have been some non paradox cars, but they were all noac.

[Filippo]

Pull up a car of that color.

[Doug DeMuro]

Came in our Paradox.

[Filippo]

Yeah, I think we have. Nope.

[Kenan]

No, I guess not.

[Doug DeMuro]

Okay, next question. Next question. Oh, this is a good one from Luke 20. Oh, look at that.

[Filippo]

I actually do love the color for that car. Specifically, I love it less on Cayennes.

[Kenan]

Yeah.

[Filippo]

Which do exist.

[Doug DeMuro]

That looks like these are the. These are the right wheels. Oh, look at this. In front of a. In front of a. It should not be there.

[Kenan]

No, it should not be in front of of.

[Doug DeMuro]

That's the car for that.

[Kenan]

Whatever. House of the British. I can't speak anymore. Whatever Castle this is.

[Doug DeMuro]

Okay. Anyway, yeah, whatever grade two listed, they were like, oh, this looks cool. Okay. Luke 26 says since we're on the theme of Kenan ranking things. Oh, Kenan. Can you rank the BMW M5 generations? No problem.

[Kenan]

That's. Yes. I think I've done this before, but E39 is at the top.

[Doug DeMuro]

E39's top grid.

[Kenan]

Big surprise.

[Doug DeMuro]

Yep.

[Kenan]

Let's say F10, M5 is next.

[Doug DeMuro]

What? What?

[Kenan]

I like that manual. Manual fat kind of performance.

[Filippo]

I approve. No, no.

[Kenan]

E28, E60 is even more unreliable than all the other. The E60 would be the greatest. But they're ludicrously unreliable.

[Doug DeMuro]

I'm not factoring in reliability.

[Filippo]

You should.

[Doug DeMuro]

I'm factoring in goodness, dude.

[Filippo]

Yeah. And goodness includes. Can you drive it?

[Doug DeMuro]

Yeah, you can't often drive it.

[Kenan]

No, you can't often drive it. And it's not that great as a paperweight.

[Doug DeMuro]

You know, TM5 would be the perfect car for someone like me who's gone for the summer. Because. Because during that quarter of the year, I can have the car fixed and then I can use it for the remaining three quarters.

[Kenan]

Won't be enough. I'm telling you, dude, it won't be enough. I love the E60, M5 a lot. I've driven them a ton, but I've always considered to be the M3 of them. The chassis is amazing, but you have to rev that engine super high because it doesn't really have any torque. It's all about horsepower, as a traditional M engine actually is. But the reason I like the F10 is it has the torque. F10.

[Doug DeMuro]

10 seconds. Okay, fine. Why give a stick?

[Kenan]

Yeah. So. So E39. F10, E60. I would then say probably that's where it gets hard.

[Doug DeMuro]

It doesn't get hard.

[Kenan]

I don't.

[Doug DeMuro]

The black one with the beige interior.

[Kenan]

Black one with evasion, too.

[Doug DeMuro]

The E28?

[Kenan]

Yeah, yeah, the E28. I've never driven an E28.

[Filippo]

I have.

[Doug DeMuro]

And it should be next. It should be after the E39 on your list.

[Kenan]

Okay, fine. We'll put foot E28, then. Then I would probably say no.

[Doug DeMuro]

He put E34 next by. By friend.

[Kenan]

Well.

[Doug DeMuro]

Oh, he doesn't like the new age.

[Filippo]

I know, Kevin.

[Kenan]

I actually like the G90, but that's probably the last.

[Doug DeMuro]

G90 is the newest one.

[Kenan]

Yeah, that's the current F90 is the.

[Doug DeMuro]

One before F90 was the.

[Kenan]

Yes. Yeah.

[Doug DeMuro]

So that's your list.

[Kenan]

I think E34 just. I'd rather have an E34. Would I rather have an F90?

[Doug DeMuro]

Yeah. It's a question.

[Filippo]

You'd rather have E30.

[Kenan]

I think I'd rather have the E34 because of the manual.

[Filippo]

And if you.

[Kenan]

Beautiful.

[Filippo]

I know you.

[Doug DeMuro]

Here's the correct answer.

[Filippo]

No, I.

[Kenan]

So E39.

[Doug DeMuro]

Here's the correct answer. E39. E. E60. E28.

[Filippo]

O.

[Doug DeMuro]

No, wait, I'm sorry. E39. E60. F10.

[Filippo]

E28.

[Doug DeMuro]

F90. No, I'm sorry. G90.

[Filippo]

Newest one first.

[Doug DeMuro]

The newest one's great. F90.

[Kenan]

That's wrong.

[Doug DeMuro]

Then E30. Swap that.

[Kenan]

Swap that around.

[Doug DeMuro]

E34 is just too plastic and doesn't handle well enough.

[Kenan]

First three are great. Scream insert six.

[Doug DeMuro]

And it is good.

[Kenan]

The best looking incredible.

[Doug DeMuro]

Except for maybe F10. Maybe 39.

[Kenan]

In the words of Richard Hammond, there's never been a bad M5.

[Doug DeMuro]

It's worth pointing out, by the way, when we do these rankings, people write to us. They're so mad we're ranking in the great sphere of cars. That's like this. We're ranking cars up here. I would take any M5 that I just mentioned over any car Filippo has ever even even thought about owning.

[Filippo]

So true.

[Kenan]

Yeah, that's true.

[Filippo]

Except for maybe D34. I've thought about owning some good cars.

[Doug DeMuro]

No, I don't think you have. Seriously, I've thought automatic C7 doesn't count.

[Kenan]

Okay, maybe the problem is you're also asking me on the spot. This is the last time I'm ever going to answer a question like this.

[Doug DeMuro]

To be clear, you did a good job. I think. I think your list is pretty good.

[Kenan]

Because like I got. It's very hard and I often will then think about it and go back like the V8 Ferrari thing. I but I like I would so much rather a 348 than a 488.

[Doug DeMuro]

Like your list here. Here is pretty. I mean I think it's pretty li.

[Kenan]

The F10 the E60. I do go back and forth because the V10 is godly especially at like really big speed. It is amazing. Okay, but anyway. But they're all good. They're all good.

[Doug DeMuro]

They're all good. Some of them are great. Move on to the next. For me the great ones are the first four. Yeah. Fleet already deleted the list but oh. E39, E60, F10, E28. Frankly I would take any one of those four and happily drive it. And love love everything. And also G90 I like too and F90 any. Okay, next question from OP Starfish.

[Kenan]

O great username.

[Doug DeMuro]

Do you think that modern day race cars will ever have the value of vintage racers or are they too specialized and hard to maintain to command the 40 million plus plus inflation value that the vintage cars command? I don't know how you feel but I think modern race cars will never even come close to getting to the level of vintage race cars.

[Kenan]

I I agree with that. With the exception of like Lewis Hamilton's like championship Ranger, the one that he won like like different there are specific one specific chassis will be very valuable. Will they? But like the thing about the other. The thing about the cars from the 20th century is like that established the sport those were driven by legend like and so like those will always command because regardless of what generation you're from if you're into formula one you respect like Senna's MP44 or his MP4 you that's it was Sennis like I guess.

[Doug DeMuro]

However what about a lame pro those car.

[Kenan]

I mean those cars aren't as respectable.

[Doug DeMuro]

But you get my point because you're.

[Kenan]

Saying Louis but they also drove of.

[Doug DeMuro]

You're talking about Lewis over here but like in 50 years will people care?

[Kenan]

Well respect to Alam Prost he was. He won four world championships. It was not the Greatest d. Most successful driver in history.

[Doug DeMuro]

Yeah.

[Kenan]

Which is Lewis Hamilton.

[Doug DeMuro]

But my, my point is. You get my point. Like in 50 years there will probably be seven more greatest drivers in history. Does anybody even care about Vettel anymore? You get.

[Kenan]

Yeah, of course.

[Doug DeMuro]

But you see, you see what I'm saying? Like as people get replaced, the Nigel Mansel car will not regard. Regardless, I think we're going down a rabbit hole because the purpose of the question is will they have the same value? And maybe some of those will. But like it is impossible to own a modern day race car.

[Kenan]

So there's the other thing you hit on. Yeah, the, I mean old Formula one cars are really hard to take care of anyway. It's specialized equipment that, especially with the real stuff engines. There are one engine for qualifying, one engine for racing, you know, I mean. But yeah, the cars are so complicated now with all the hybrid, hybrid systems, stuff like. And that technology ages instantly.

[Doug DeMuro]

Instantly.

[Kenan]

So.

[Doug DeMuro]

And they don't support it. It's not like a road car where like you go on ebay and buy parts. Like once the race car is done, they're done because they move on to the next racing technology. They're not sitting here trying to support like gentlemen racers who have these things as, as, as value appreciators in their garage.

[Kenan]

And some teams do a better job than that. You know, McLaren has a great historics division. Mercedes Benz does too. They do keep spares around, do keep the cars functional and take them to things and blah, blah, blah. But like if you're going to own it, like yeah. I met somebody who has like all the Ferrari FXX cars and like has all of the special Aston Martins and all that stuff. And he said the F1 cars he has are like just impossible to take care of. Like just.

[Doug DeMuro]

And to drive honestly, like that's the other thing. Whereas you can get in a 250GTO. It's a fairly simple car and it is a tremendously enjoyable experience and I think those cars will. And because they were seminal in the creation of some of these brands and sports. It's, it's ne. It will never be the same. It will never be the same. You're buying a car versus Buying art.

[Filippo]

There's two other. Right. The older race cars, even if are were based on cars fundamentally.

[Kenan]

Some of them on the, some of them were cars.

[Doug DeMuro]

You just drove them to the race.

[Filippo]

Current Formula one cars. Oh, not that at all. And also there's like some like. I think the racing drivers matters. The company was also younger. Every company that Built them, was younger. And you kind of like, it was a specific group of people, not like a nameless corporation to some extent. Right, Which I think is the case now.

[Doug DeMuro]

Yeah, I. I think there is a.

[Filippo]

Little bit of whatever.

[Doug DeMuro]

There is a little bit of that.

[Kenan]

That'S a little bit different. There is a little bit of that Adrian Newey, like.

[Doug DeMuro]

But back in the day, Enzo was like watching the car go around. Lama like you, if you have a 250 LM, you know that Enzo was in the stands ready to like beat up the driver if he didn't finish third or better. Right, you know?

[Kenan]

Yeah, exactly. If, if there's an accident, the driver gets killed, he goes, oh, it's a shame. What about the car?

[Doug DeMuro]

Like that, that was a. There was a special time in that period.

[Kenan]

Every vintage Ferrari like, like I ever see the road ones, it doesn't matter. It's like Enzo licked it in the factory.

[Doug DeMuro]

Enzo licked it.

[Kenan]

Enzo licked it.

[Doug DeMuro]

Okay, next question from S. We'll do two more from S. Which is sad because there's a lot more to do. It's a great question from Sgalise17. Doug, do you enjoy washing your vehicles or do you let Kenan handle that? I hate washing my cars more than anything in the entire world. I think it's one of the most boring, physically demanding, annoying, difficult, awful things.

[Kenan]

And for me, it's nirvana.

[Doug DeMuro]

I consider myself. I'm a driver. Kenan's a walker washer.

[Kenan]

No, I mean I drive by car all the time.

[Doug DeMuro]

Cleanest car. I like to drive my car. Let me tell you this.

[Kenan]

I drive my car. I drive one car, drive it every day.

[Doug DeMuro]

We put it this way, if I got two hours, Kenan, he sets up a podcast and cleans. I set up a starter drive. You know what I'm saying?

[Filippo]

You tried so hard that.

[Kenan]

So hard. It didn't work.

[Doug DeMuro]

But my point is correct.

[Kenan]

I drive my cars. I like getting them dirty and then getting them clean again. Cleaning it is very satisfying and I do like cleaning it. Cars.

[Doug DeMuro]

It's fun the clean sometime. But now that my cars don't live here anymore, my cars are now at my house. Cuz I built a garage for them and so I have to clean them now. And it's incredibly annoying. Unbelievably annoying.

[Kenan]

Well, hey man, bring one.

[Doug DeMuro]

You ever clean a car?

[Filippo]

Yeah, rarely. He taught me how to in a video. First and only time.

[Kenan]

A great student.

[Filippo]

Thank you. First and only time.

[Doug DeMuro]

Okay, last two more questions, but one is very quick. Mr. B. Sean B. Does Nick get any Compensation for his videos in the Cars and Bids channel or is he doing this solely for fun? Yeah, we pay him. We pay Nick.

[Filippo]

Do we need to? I don't know. I'm not convinced.

[Doug DeMuro]

I think he would do it without payment. But the thing, the thing I've learned about Nick is any payment helps him justify it. So like this Bentley, he's going to lose a ton of money on this Bentley but we give him like five grand and he going to lose like 20. But in his mind he thinks that's even like that's what Nick thinks is even. He's like, well I've lost 20 but they, they gave me some cash and like you know, it worked. It worked out like that's how Nick thinks.

[Kenan]

Nick is concerned with purchase price and selling price and cost of ownership doesn't factor.

[Doug DeMuro]

It doesn't really fact in which is good for his situation.

[Filippo]

So true.

[Doug DeMuro]

Final question from Guerin, Guerini, Guer, Guerreri, Tom. 40. In your guys opinion, what makes a toxic car enthusiast? I think the number one answer is gatekeeping. You can't be an enthusiast unless the most annoying thing in the world, oh, you own, you have an automatic whatever. Well that you have a. You don't work on your own cars, you don't clean your cars. Well then that doesn't. You don't go to sideshows. Although that I think you shouldn't be a real enthusiast.

[Filippo]

I do think that that is very toxic. I also don't love people that think they know more than they do.

[Doug DeMuro]

Oh, that's always a tough one.

[Kenan]

Boy, you can smell it in a second when someone doesn't know like exactly what they're talking about.

[Filippo]

Be open to learning. You don't have to pretend that you know everything. Which I think goes to gatekeeping. Like I think they were probably in real relationships with people that like friendships with people that like if you didn't know everything, you weren't. True. So you make things when people try.

[Doug DeMuro]

To do that to someone who does know a lot. Dude, the, the, the. This Guy's a detuned GT1 engine.

[Filippo]

Yeah, that was like once.

[Kenan]

Yeah, yeah, but that's exactly right there, Philippa. Like I said, I certainly don't know a lot about normal. But like I've said before, I'm eager to learn more. And today I actually went through and I memorized the entire 2001 Honda like catalog of the cars that they make.

[Filippo]

Thank you.

[Doug DeMuro]

Oh yeah. Name the 01 Hondas.

[Kenan]

01 Honda. So we got Accord coupe, Accord sedan. What a Civic Coupe, Civic sedan.

[Doug DeMuro]

He's going alphabetically.

[Kenan]

No, I'm not. But we've got the insight. We've got the Prelude S2000, CR V. What's the.

[Doug DeMuro]

I think you're only missing one.

[Kenan]

Yes, I know what it is. It's the other SUV. No, I'm missing two.

[Doug DeMuro]

No, 01.

[Filippo]

You got 01. There was a. Oh, you're missing two.

[Doug DeMuro]

You're missing two.

[Kenan]

Yep, I'm missing two.

[Filippo]

Shoot. The fact that you don't know these. One of them. I had the passport.

[Doug DeMuro]

Yep. And.

[Kenan]

And what's the.

[Doug DeMuro]

What's the Mag Daddy of? 01. Honda, dude.

[Kenan]

Oh, the Odyssey.

[Doug DeMuro]

What? Shane? Yep.

[Kenan]

Boom. Nailed it. All 10, dude.

[Doug DeMuro]

What a time to be alive. The Prelude and the S2000 in the lineup. The NSX Accord Coupe. The NSX Accord Coupe.

[Filippo]

Because it's tail lights. Yeah.

[Doug DeMuro]

You look at me like I'm crazy. Everybody knows that's the NSX Accord coupe. Wow. But what a time to be alive. The original CRV. That was the final year of the original CR V. Good car.

[Kenan]

This was a solid lineup of cars.

[Doug DeMuro]

Except for the passport. Except for the disaster.

[Filippo]

03 had no 03 new accord. But O3, you lost the Prelude and the. You had the different Geno chord.

[Doug DeMuro]

Oh, we liked that accord.

[Kenan]

01 was.

[Doug DeMuro]

The prelude ended in 01.

[Kenan]

Yeah.

[Filippo]

So you had the what element?

[Doug DeMuro]

Oh, the element was 01. The element came out in 01.

[Filippo]

I thought I was trying to decide.

[Doug DeMuro]

Yeah, element came out in 01. Honda was killing it in 01. It's like BMW in 01. 01 great year. Okay, that's our final.

[Filippo]

That element was revealed in 01. Came out not for the 01.

[Doug DeMuro]

It came up for the 02 model year.

[Kenan]

Really? I'm pretty confident.

[Doug DeMuro]

They usually know stuff like that. I'm looking losing it. I'm absolutely losing it.

[Kenan]

Don't worry, we got you.

[Doug DeMuro]

Toxic car enthusiast trait. Another one is those people who leave cars and coffee burning out. Like anybody cares how their Dodge Charger exhaust is different from the last F80 M3 burble tune exhaust. It is so annoying and unsafe and stupid and nobody cares. And invariably when people burn out like that in their burble tune F80M3, everybody around me is like, what an idiot. Like, no one is sitting there being like, whoa, man, how cool. Everybody thinks you're a loser.

[Kenan]

And if nobody gets hurt and you don't have an accident, the only other thing it results in is the event that you're going to getting shut down.

[Doug DeMuro]

It reflects poorly on the event, and eventually it'll get.

[Kenan]

It gets shut down and it ruins it for everybody.

[Doug DeMuro]

But you know what? The guys who do that in G35s, they have. They will get pulled over. I watch. I. One of my Instagram things that the. That the algorithm has found for me is reels of people getting pulled over, leaving cars and coffee. Love it. And you know what? You go to the comments and people are always like, you deserved it. And I'm like, yeah, because they're always doing something really dumb. And then they're posting it and they're like, I can't believe I got pulled over. And it's like, I can.

[Kenan]

We all can. You're the only one who can.

[Doug DeMuro]

I. You know, I don't really care. Whatever. But like, other situations, but that is a really toxic thing, doing it right. Cars and Coffee. Nobody is impressed. Nobody thinks you're cool. Not one person. Fully agree. Anything else?

[Filippo]

Download the Cars and Bids app.

[Doug DeMuro]

Oh, wow. Oh, we're ending the pod. Download the Cars and Bids app. I don't know how, but go to the iOS. We don't have enough time, Filippo. We gotta cut it. Ken, you got any parting thoughts for us? Who's going to win the Formula one race?

[Kenan]

I'm rooting for Ferrari, please.

[Doug DeMuro]

Who's driving the Olympics? Lewis. Lewis and some other fella.

[Kenan]

And Charlotte. Claire. Yes. You got nothing.

[Doug DeMuro]

Is he French? Not a French fella. Driving.

[Kenan]

I don't have time for this.

[Doug DeMuro]

Where did he learn to drive on a Peugeot?

[Kenan]

All right, thank you for watching. Best podcast we've ever done.

[Doug DeMuro]

What's the Citron qq?

[Kenan]

Good, good.