Nissan Sent WHAT to Doug? BMW's Biggest Mistake! Every Mustang Ranked!

Summary

Podcast Summary: THIS CAR POD! with Doug DeMuro & Friends! Episode: Nissan Sent WHAT to Doug? BMW's Biggest Mistake! Every Mustang Ranked!
Release Date: May 16, 2025

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1. Introduction to the Special Episode

In this special episode of THIS CAR POD!, guest hosts Kenan and Filippo step in as Doug DeMuro is unavailable. Instead of the usual news segments, the trio dedicates the entire episode to answering listener-submitted questions, offering a deep dive into various automotive topics.

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2. Doug's Unexpected Gift from Nissan

Doug DeMuro shares a surprising gift he received from Nissan, sparking an engaging conversation about brand relationships and promotional items.

• Doug DeMuro [02:10]: "Nissan sends me this letter and I simply can't say no because they sent me... the single stupidest thing I've ever heard of in my life."

Doug reveals that Nissan gifted him a Nissan Z Nismo Precision Sushi Knife, a limited-edition item featuring the iconic Z logo. Despite his usual reluctance to accept gifts from automakers, Doug felt compelled to accept due to the uniqueness of the gift.

• Filippo [04:17]: "There's a chef involved... it's a collab between them and Chef Hiroyuki Terada."

The sushi knife, limited to 240 units, serves as a tribute to the original 240Z, though Doug humorously criticizes its practicality and design.

• Kenan [05:12]: "Filippo recognizes quality when he hears it."

The trio discusses the craftsmanship and limited availability, highlighting the niche appeal of such promotional items. Doug concludes that while he doesn't typically accept these gifts, this particular gesture showcases how Nissan values his contribution to their brand story.

---

3. Audience Questions Segment

In this Q&A session, Kenan and Filippo tackle a series of listener questions, providing insightful and often spirited discussions on various automotive topics.

a. Ranking Every Generation of Range Rover [12:07]

Question: Rank every generation of Range Rover.

• Doug DeMuro [12:36]: "The P38 is probably my favorite Range Rover, to be perfectly honest. But it is so raucously badly built that you can't put it as Anything other than last."

Despite initial enthusiasm for the P38 model's design and seating, the consensus turns to issues with build quality and reliability, relegating it to the lowest rank.

• Kenan [15:02]: "I'm putting the fifth gen Range Rover wagon second plus."

Filippo and Kenan argue over the merits of different generations, focusing on factors like build reliability, performance, and design evolution. They ultimately agree that while some models stand out, others fall short due to various shortcomings.

• Doug DeMuro [22:45]: "The P38 has timing chain issues, air suspension failures, and other electronic problems."

The discussion underscores the challenges Range Rover has faced with newer models, balancing design appeal with practical reliability.

b. Ranking All Generations of Mustang [64:27]

Question: Rank all generations of the Mustang.

The conversation delves into the rich history of the Mustang, analyzing each generation's impact and legacy.

• Kenan [65:42]: "The first generation transformed American cars. It was one of the greatest names ever given to a new car."

The first generation is celebrated for its iconic status and transformative influence on the American automotive landscape.

• Doug DeMuro [65:49]: "The S197 changed the Mustang's look forever. It went back to retro styling and improved quality and desirability."

The S197 model, introduced in the mid-2000s, is highlighted as a pivotal moment that revitalized the Mustang's appeal, balancing modern advancements with nostalgic design elements.

• Filippo [73:04]: "I think the S650 is not a bad car. I'm just disappointed by the lack of improvement."

While acknowledging the strengths of newer models, Filippo expresses disappointment over perceived stagnation in design and performance enhancements.

The trio ultimately ranks the generations based on factors like performance, design evolution, and cultural impact, with a general consensus favoring the classic and revitalized models over recent iterations.

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4. Additional Discussions and Insights

Beyond the primary questions, Kenan and Filippo engage in various tangents, offering their perspectives on other automotive matters:

a. Floor Pricing for Previous Gen AMG GT [19:35]

A discussion on the resale value of the AMG GT series, noting a significant depreciation trend:

• Doug DeMuro [20:01]: "This car has 14,000 miles and sold for $63,000. This is a bona fide exotic car."

They examine market trends, questioning how low the prices for these models can drop given their performance and desirability.

b. Future of Internal Combustion Engine (ICE) Cars [48:40]

Exploring the longevity of ICE cars in the market:

• Doug DeMuro [50:12]: "I think it's going to take an enormous amount of time for them to be gone."

The hosts debate the feasibility and timeline for ICE cars becoming obsolete, considering technological advancements and market dependencies.

c. Ideal Halo Cars for Manufacturers [52:42]

Question: Which car manufacturer that makes regular cars would you most want to see create a halo car?

• Kenan [59:12]: "I think Honda should build an exceptional halo car."

They discuss the qualities that make a halo car successful, emphasizing the importance of blending performance, reliability, and brand heritage.

d. Best US State for Car Spotting [58:15]

Question: What is the best US State for car spotting that isn't California, Florida, Montana?

• Doug DeMuro [63:46]: "Connecticut in the summer or north of New York, like Westchester, Rye, that whole area north of New York."

Suggestions focus on regions with affluent areas and car enthusiast communities, highlighting spots beyond the typical hotspots.

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5. Concluding Thoughts

Kenan and Filippo wrap up the episode by reflecting on the challenging questions and their passionate discussions about automotive history and trends. They emphasize the importance of community input and look forward to returning to their regular podcast format in the next episode.

• Kenan [73:41]: "This was really hard, but it's a great discussion."
• Filippo [75:00]: "Thank you for the questions. We'll be back to the normal pod next week."

---

Notable Quotes

• Doug DeMuro [02:10]: "This is the single stupidest thing I've ever heard of in my life. I must accept it."
• Filippo [04:17]: "There's a collab between them and Chef Hiroyuki Terada."
• Kenan [15:02]: "I'm putting the fifth gen Range Rover wagon second plus."
• Doug DeMuro [65:49]: "The S197 changed the Mustang's look forever."
• Filippo [73:04]: "I'm just disappointed by the lack of improvement."
• Doug DeMuro [50:12]: "I think it's going to take an enormous amount of time for them to be gone."

---

This episode of THIS CAR POD! offers a rich and engaging exploration of automotive history, trends, and enthusiast perspectives, providing valuable insights for both longtime fans and newcomers to the automotive world.

Transcript

[Doug DeMuro]

This episode is brought to you by Lifelock. Not everyone is careful with your personal information, which might explain why there's a victim of identity theft every five seconds in the U.S. fortunately, there's LifeLock. LifeLock monitors hundreds of millions of data points a second for threats to your identity. If your identity is stolen, a US based restoration specialist will fix it, guaranteed, or your money back. Save up to 40% your first year by visiting lifelock.com podcast terms apply. Hello and welcome to a very special episode of this Car Pod.

[Kenan]

I'm Kenan.

[Filippo]

I'm Filippo.

[Doug DeMuro]

And today I'm not here. I'm here, right? But I'm not. Okay, so here's the deal. I'm out this week, I'm unavailable. So we're recording this episode early. And so we're not gonna have our usual segments where we have the news and all this stuff because. Cause we can't talk. So instead we're gonna do. We're just gonna do questions. This is gonna be an entire episode of Questions.

[Filippo]

Good questions.

[Doug DeMuro]

They're good questions. What these questions are, is questions from previous weeks that I had on my list and we just didn't have time for. So now we're gonna just do them all.

[Kenan]

Wow. Okay.

[Doug DeMuro]

But before that happens, I wanna share with you a little surprise.

[Kenan]

Oh, man.

[Doug DeMuro]

About a month ago, two months, I don't know, I get an email from Nissan and they say, hey, we have a gift for you. And they describe the gift in the email and I don't know, do you know what this is?

[Filippo]

I know from other the Internet what.

[Doug DeMuro]

They'Re giving out, I don't accept. Generally, I don't care to receive gifts from the automakers. Although I do have Toyota Mirai cocktail napkins.

[Filippo]

What?

[Kenan]

That's pretty good.

[Doug DeMuro]

You should question whether I reviewed the Mirai accurately because they bribed me with paper cocktail. They're not, they're not clogged, they're not reusable.

[Filippo]

Do they just have an outline of a Mirai?

[Doug DeMuro]

Just says the word Mirai in their Mirai. The new one, the newest one, the good looking one, it doesn't have a picture of the Mirai, it just has. It says Mirai in the Mirai script. Okay.

[Filippo]

And honestly, ironic, the water leaking out.

[Doug DeMuro]

Of the exhaust pipe, they weren't actually even a gift. I stole them from what must have been a brunch or something because I didn't attend a dinner on that. Anyway, the point is, I don't take gifts from the automakers.

[Filippo]

Yeah.

[Doug DeMuro]

But Nissan sends me this letter and I simply can't say no because. Because they sent me. Thank you for being part of our story. We appreciate your interest in the Nissan Z Nismo precision Sushi knife.

[Filippo]

Yeah.

[Kenan]

What?

[Doug DeMuro]

And I'm like, they sent me this. And I was like, I can't say no to this. This is the single stupidest thing I've ever heard of in my life. I must accept it. And so what I have in here is.

[Filippo]

Wow.

[Doug DeMuro]

By the way, this is a gift, personal gift to me. Okay. Nissan Z Nismo. So it's a Shushu knife with the Z logo.

[Kenan]

Well, because you've been so generous as we talk about Nissan's great successes, you.

[Doug DeMuro]

Know, I have been pretty generous to the Z, which I think is a pretty good car.

[Kenan]

Wow. This is quite.

[Doug DeMuro]

By the way, this is under embargo until March 21, so I hope to.

[Kenan]

God it looks very sharp.

[Filippo]

I mean, it says, warning, this knife is sharp.

[Doug DeMuro]

Oh, actually there's a quick safety before you handle it. There's a quick safety note is in here. This knife is extremely sharp. Please handle it with care and store it responsibly. Nissan is not liable for any injuries resulting from its use.

[Filippo]

By use, misuse or abuse.

[Kenan]

This is.

[Doug DeMuro]

Don't abuse my knife. Listen, put that card back in here. This is Oe. I have this OE in box.

[Kenan]

Oh, yeah, I've taken it out of the.

[Doug DeMuro]

I've unboxed it in 75 years.

[Filippo]

Love that.

[Doug DeMuro]

When you have a Nissan Z Nismo, you're going to. If you have the sushi knife that goes along with the car, this is.

[Kenan]

Your F50 shoes moment. You have most desirable.

[Doug DeMuro]

If you have the sushi knife that goes along with the car, notice the Z logo. If you have the sushi knife that goes along with the car, your Z will be worth at least $75 more.

[Filippo]

Are they giving this to Z owners?

[Doug DeMuro]

No, no, no. They're only giving it to.

[Filippo]

I don't want to esteem journalists.

[Doug DeMuro]

I don't want to say VIPs. I don't want to say it right. But I think Nissan said it, if you know what I mean.

[Kenan]

Yep. Zips in their case. But that. That is quite. That is quite something. I can't believe they sent this.

[Filippo]

Are they pretending that there's a tie to this besides Japan?

[Doug DeMuro]

I'm like, sure.

[Filippo]

Is it like metal that's also used in wood for.

[Doug DeMuro]

There's a chef. There's. There's a chef involved. And, and. And they, they go to. They point to. Point to his Instagram page. It's like A collab between them and Chef. Whose name is who? Hiroyuki Terada.

[Filippo]

Sure.

[Doug DeMuro]

But I don't. I can't.

[Filippo]

Oh.

[Doug DeMuro]

There's only 240 of these. Whoa. Tribute to the original 240Z. Oh, don't. Get out of here.

[Filippo]

Thieves.

[Kenan]

Dang. Okay, 240.

[Doug DeMuro]

241 of 240. Nissan sushi knife situation. Oh, wow, look at this. It's got all these logos on it. 1969, 83. 90-0209.

[Kenan]

And then the PR person that put this together must have been so happy with themselves.

[Doug DeMuro]

Well, as they should.

[Filippo]

That's a nice sounding box.

[Doug DeMuro]

This. This is a Z. And Hiroyuki Terada. The box sounded nice, the box sounds nice. And I bet you this is made of the same wood that's in their cars. Plastic wood.

[Kenan]

Filippo recognizes quality when he hears it.

[Doug DeMuro]

Anyway, look, the point is, I just wanted to tell everybody that I'm a recipient of this gift because I wanted people to know how Nissan views me.

[Filippo]

As a Z.

[Kenan]

What an outrageous thing to send you.

[Doug DeMuro]

It's insane. And again, I turn down a lot of these gifts, but I.

[Filippo]

You can't turn that down. I agree.

[Doug DeMuro]

So from now on, you should suspect any of my Z reviews because they've bribed me with this sushi knife.

[Filippo]

Yeah. The next time they release an update to the Nissan Z, you'll hear of it.

[Doug DeMuro]

You never have to worry because there's never going to be another Z.

[Kenan]

Maybe then it'll be chopsticks. Maybe an actual, like, samurai sword. It'll just keep getting more intense.

[Doug DeMuro]

The knife's limited to 240 units. Just like the.

[Filippo]

Demand.

[Kenan]

Limited based it on sales projection.

[Doug DeMuro]

That's the sales projection for, like, second half of the year. Okay.

[Filippo]

New song was so happy for like a minute.

[Doug DeMuro]

Move on. All right, we're going to do questions Is question day for everybody. Woo.

[Kenan]

All right, let's dive in.

[Doug DeMuro]

Let's dive in. Okay, I'm going to choose these at random. There's 2022. We're not going to get to all of these. Whoa. Now, by the way, keep in mind, if you want to ask us questions, you can. You go to carsandbids.com you click on the community tab and there's a poster that says, ask us questions for the next pod and we'll get to them. This pod is unusual because it's off schedule, but go. After this, we're going to go back to our normal question routine. Okay. Are you ready?

[Kenan]

Yes. Prepared.

[Doug DeMuro]

Okay.

[Filippo]

This is a test or just questions?

[Doug DeMuro]

No, no, There's.

[Filippo]

I feel pressure.

[Doug DeMuro]

Okay. Yeah. There's a few rankings that I'll intersperse throughout. Here's a good one. First question from a user whose name I'm not going to say on air for everyone. This is a good one. If you had to pick a brand new car that was not sold in the US which one would you get? Now we constantly get asked, what car do you want? Easy.

[Filippo]

So easy.

[Doug DeMuro]

So easy at 25. But if you had to pick a new one, you're both saying, so easy. So easy. And I know you're thinking of different cars. Yep.

[Kenan]

So would not be a different card.

[Doug DeMuro]

Okay. Can I guess?

[Filippo]

Yeah, of course. It's not the same.

[Doug DeMuro]

You were thinking of the Mitsuoka Buddy.

[Filippo]

No.

[Doug DeMuro]

Oh, come on. Yes, you are.

[Filippo]

No. I wish I had, but no.

[Doug DeMuro]

You're thinking of the Buddy.

[Filippo]

I do not want a RAV4 that looks like a K5 Blazer. That's all you need to know about.

[Doug DeMuro]

Isn't that what we all want? Can I ask you a question?

[Filippo]

Is there a functional Buddy Is.

[Doug DeMuro]

You know, is there a functional difference between the Mitsuoka Buddy and the Bronco Sport?

[Filippo]

Yes. The Mitsuka Buddy is based on a.

[Doug DeMuro]

Better car, but you get my point. The Bronco Sport is a Ford Escape that looks like a Bronco. The Mitsuoka Buddy is a RAV4 that looks like a Blazer. Chevy wouldn't do it, so Toyota did.

[Filippo]

I oversimplified it. It looks like a K5 Blazer with a Cadillac SRX tail.

[Doug DeMuro]

Yeah.

[Filippo]

The rear is very srx.

[Kenan]

The whole thing is. But it's. Yeah. Particularly unfortunate.

[Filippo]

That is not the answer I had in mind.

[Doug DeMuro]

You know, this car gets uglier every time we talk about it.

[Filippo]

It really does.

[Kenan]

You know, we have talked about before. I actually very much agree with this. It really does look worse. I use the same picture too.

[Doug DeMuro]

For some reason I always think it's just the front end. Anyway, what's your answer car? You could import.

[Filippo]

I want you to guess Jimny.

[Kenan]

No, Jimny's a good guess.

[Doug DeMuro]

Oh, the Honda E. No.

[Filippo]

Also no longer sold. But I would like a Peugeot 508 station wagon, please.

[Doug DeMuro]

That's on sale?

[Filippo]

Yeah.

[Kenan]

Is it Eug. Yes. 507.

[Filippo]

508. Come on, man. Give it the correct entry.

[Doug DeMuro]

Peugeot 507. 508 wagon. Is this electric?

[Filippo]

It's plug in. There are plug in hybrid ones? Yes.

[Doug DeMuro]

Okay. And you want this? I do. I presume that. I presume that the. That the top version of it is 145 horsepower.

[Filippo]

That's all you need.

[Doug DeMuro]

145 horse. And you know what they, there's a. The shift. There's a shifter guide that at 600rpm it pops on and makes Filippo shift into the steering wheel. Is that one of those ones that the steering wheel?

[Filippo]

I think all the little ones are.

[Doug DeMuro]

Yeah. Okay.

[Kenan]

It's like the opposite of skip shift. It makes you shift.

[Doug DeMuro]

It makes you shift into second really early.

[Filippo]

I think this is one of. This is a great looking station wagon.

[Doug DeMuro]

There's a lot of great looking station.

[Filippo]

Wagons on the market in Europe right now.

[Doug DeMuro]

This is a tremendously bland pull up a front. I mean it looks good.

[Filippo]

It's a good looking car.

[Doug DeMuro]

It's a boring, it's a.

[Kenan]

No, you know what?

[Filippo]

Mystery. But it looks fine.

[Doug DeMuro]

It's fine.

[Kenan]

It's fine.

[Filippo]

I think it's a little good.

[Kenan]

My Filippo is over here.

[Doug DeMuro]

Ken and I also have a European station wagon. Kenan, do you want to say it or me?

[Kenan]

You go ahead.

[Doug DeMuro]

The new M3 wagon. One of the great mistakes of product planning is that BMW didn't sell this car here in the unit.

[Filippo]

Too much power and not big much power.

[Kenan]

Oh my God.

[Doug DeMuro]

Do they sell this with a stick? Is it not?

[Kenan]

No, cuz it's comps only.

[Doug DeMuro]

So that's too bad. But still new M3 wagon.

[Filippo]

508 fish wagon. Sold the stick.

[Kenan]

That is so cool.

[Doug DeMuro]

5. I would rather have this with a tip than a 508 wagon with front wheel drive, a plug in hybrid system and 131 horsepower.

[Filippo]

Respectfully disagree.

[Doug DeMuro]

From a 1.6 L2 cylinder.

[Kenan]

He disrespectfully. That's, that's, that is your. That's a series.

[Doug DeMuro]

That's what you were going to say.

[Kenan]

No, Gordon Murray T33 is the answer.

[Doug DeMuro]

That's sold here.

[Kenan]

No, it isn't.

[Doug DeMuro]

They're going to do it show.

[Kenan]

It's show or display. That means it's not sold. It's not sold here.

[Doug DeMuro]

Drove around in an SP3.

[Kenan]

Car is not sold here.

[Doug DeMuro]

I drove around Bell gardens in an SP3. I almost got knifed to death. But I did survive it.

[Kenan]

I'm glad that you said.

[Filippo]

I'm glad you said the 33. I don't know why you. Yeah, why not the 50 which is a choice?

[Kenan]

Because I think the 33 is prettier and like more easy to use and like.

[Filippo]

Oh sure, yeah, yeah. Famously a car that's going to.

[Kenan]

To the 30. The 50 is you have to sit in the middle, go up.

[Doug DeMuro]

What's happen. Oh, my God. Go down. Oh, my God. Okay, what's happening there? Is that the. There's a luggage compartment in there?

[Kenan]

Yeah. And it opens up like this.

[Doug DeMuro]

Do you agree with me that that luggage is.

[Kenan]

Well, that's clearly a. Yeah, that's not a real image.

[Doug DeMuro]

No, I mean, it doesn't have handles.

[Kenan]

Well, yes, that would. It would be difficult to carry. No, you just carry on with no handles. Gordon Mary's all about saving weight. Exactly. You work on your bicycle.

[Doug DeMuro]

You know what? You don't even need the luggage because you're all about saving weight when you travel.

[Kenan]

Yeah. The T50 I like, but it's not as pretty as this car. I think the T33 is better looking.

[Doug DeMuro]

Boy, I'll tell you something. If this car came out tomorrow from an unknown hypercar company that was claiming to build a car, I wouldn't give it a second look. But because it's.

[Kenan]

It has that spectacular, naturally accurate.

[Doug DeMuro]

Which is made by Cosworth. Why don't you just get a B5 RS4?

[Kenan]

Because it doesn't have a V12 in it.

[Doug DeMuro]

So you think. Yeah, but it's got something. Something for Cosworth.

[Kenan]

Yeah, Cosworth is not enough. It must have 12 cylinders, individual throttle bod.

[Doug DeMuro]

I got ITBs in my Countach.

[Kenan]

Well, all right. Actually, I think the Courage team might have ITBs. Maybe not, but my car, certainly.

[Filippo]

All right, good choices.

[Doug DeMuro]

All. Okay. That was a good question. And we've all made good choices. I believe that Kenan and I won. This isn't a game show, but I think.

[Kenan]

I think we could say that. Yeah.

[Doug DeMuro]

Okay, next question. Filippo has got a dry erase board.

[Filippo]

I can erase it.

[Doug DeMuro]

We don't have paper in this office.

[Filippo]

Well, I don't want to waste it.

[Doug DeMuro]

You don't waste paper. Okay.

[Filippo]

All right.

[Doug DeMuro]

The question is as follows. And this is a good one. This is our first rank. There's going to be a few today.

[Kenan]

Okay.

[Doug DeMuro]

Rank every generation of Range Rover. You know, we don't even need paper for this. Yeah, we don't right now.

[Filippo]

Well, let me. Let's just say my loud Range Rover Classic. The P38, the L322, whatever.

[Doug DeMuro]

The one after L405. Right. And the new one, which is the something or other. But you can just say new. Okay.

[Kenan]

You're gonna put the.

[Doug DeMuro]

The P38's last. It just is.

[Filippo]

Yeah.

[Doug DeMuro]

I mean, the P38 is probably my favorite Range Rover, to be perfectly honest. But it is so raucously badly built that you can't put it as Anything other than last.

[Kenan]

I don't disagree with that. Even the original is.

[Doug DeMuro]

It looks better than every other Range Rover. It has a wonderful seating position. It has a smooth powertrain. It's last.

[Filippo]

I don't think it looks better than every other Range Rover.

[Kenan]

I think it absolutely.

[Doug DeMuro]

I think in this color, with these wheels. It does not. But I think a very nice. A black O2 is probably one of the best looking SUVs ever, if not the single best looking SUV of all time. A black O2. Yeah, that one. But that one. That one. That one.

[Filippo]

First of all, the E53X5 exists, so.

[Doug DeMuro]

And what did they base the whole E53X5 ethos on?

[Filippo]

Specifically the E53.5 looks better.

[Doug DeMuro]

No, it's a curvy thing and it's.

[Kenan]

Got those lumps on the.

[Filippo]

Yeah, the headlights. Isn't the front. Isn't the best look.

[Kenan]

This is a great class.

[Doug DeMuro]

This is the best looking ever. It is the worst Range Rover.

[Kenan]

Yep.

[Doug DeMuro]

Look at that. If you were driving that in 1999, you might as well. You could buy or sell people like a pen. Which, by the way, you didn't use because you had assistants following you everywhere, writing down everything you said.

[Kenan]

That's right. Yes. Take a note, by the way, one.

[Filippo]

Of the highlights of the movie, the Parent Trap.

[Doug DeMuro]

Yes. Okay, so P38's last. We agree on that? Do you agree on that? Oh, my God. You're not gonna. What are you gonna say?

[Filippo]

He's gonna put the new one last? Because it's kind of the new.

[Kenan]

No, no, no. The new one's a crazy.

[Filippo]

The new one's not first on my list, by the way.

[Doug DeMuro]

Okay, what's first on your list? You, if you.

[Filippo]

The L405.

[Doug DeMuro]

But you. Oh, my God. I can't. I'm done. We're done. Good night, everybody. Thanks for coming to the podcast.

[Filippo]

I gotta think about that a little more. I gotta think about that a little more.

[Doug DeMuro]

Okay.

[Kenan]

I am putting. I don't think the P3. I think P30 is second plus. I'm putting the classic last.

[Doug DeMuro]

Oh, my God. What?

[Kenan]

No, that's not true. First, I'm gonna put.

[Filippo]

Okay, well, that's all, sensei.

[Kenan]

I take it back. I'm gonna put.

[Doug DeMuro]

You know what the hard part about this is? None were great.

[Kenan]

I'm gonna put the right. You know, normally it is picking between a lot of great cars. This time, it's like picking between a lot of bad cards.

[Doug DeMuro]

It's pretty easy to rank from the bottom up, but I don't like any of my options.

[Kenan]

I'm putting.

[Doug DeMuro]

That's hard.

[Filippo]

It's hard.

[Doug DeMuro]

But I'll tell you what.

[Kenan]

This is 405.

[Filippo]

The L405 is it kind of made range over a successful brand?

[Doug DeMuro]

Again, the 405 is second to last. Wow.

[Kenan]

Respectively.

[Doug DeMuro]

No, it had the timing chain issue. It went to six cylinders. They never quite. They never quite had the king of the road feel that first two, three generations had. You get an L405, it feels more like a car. A P38 or an L322. You get in that thing. You feel like you own the people around you and they are your subject.

[Filippo]

And I did love your L322. And when I see a nice L322, I still legitimately get excited.

[Doug DeMuro]

I wish we could separate 03 to 05 L322 from 12.

[Kenan]

I have a new take.

[Doug DeMuro]

Okay. Oh, wow.

[Kenan]

You're saying that the P30 is last because of its unreliability. Well, they all will be. That the new one is only not there because it's not.

[Doug DeMuro]

You don't understand. The P38. All of them are unreliable. The P38.

[Kenan]

I don't.

[Doug DeMuro]

This is pretty good if you look at it. If you look at it, the air suspension fails, the electronics fail, the heater core fails. There is not a single Land Rover shop in the entire country that doesn't have seven of these sitting in the back unclaimed because there was a repair bill that was more than $1,200.

[Kenan]

It's only because the classics all rusted away.

[Filippo]

Let's look at that coil spring conversion.

[Kenan]

The other ones aren't old enough.

[Doug DeMuro]

This one's out of motor swap.

[Kenan]

All right. Put a new motor in some springs, you know. What are you going to do?

[Filippo]

Look, I'm going to revise mine to not put P38.

[Kenan]

I don't think I.

[Filippo]

Only because of the iconicness for a crisis. I'm going to put a second to.

[Doug DeMuro]

Last instead, after what I'm putting What's last. What's last? What do you put below? What do you put 38 first?

[Kenan]

I don't even know, like, what to put the new one.

[Doug DeMuro]

Is the new one here.

[Filippo]

The P38. The new one is a great car, but it doesn't improve on the Ranger in any notable way. And it's not dissimilar from or different from or better than any of the other luxury SUVs that are for sale.

[Doug DeMuro]

Right. I can totally disagree. It is still the gold standard. So you're gonna put still the gold standard.

[Kenan]

So by your logic, the 405 should be the best.

[Filippo]

I do think the 405 legitimately innovated in the space.

[Doug DeMuro]

Oh my God. Because it was a mass. Broader appeal. The first three have exotic car. Okay, look, we gotta finish this. Range Rovers. I'm gonna tell you what the answer is, all right?

[Kenan]

L322 first.

[Doug DeMuro]

Oh, God. I don't want to say 322 first.

[Kenan]

Yeah, but you're going to.

[Filippo]

You're going to.

[Doug DeMuro]

You're going to classic and then new and then there you go. That's actually a pretty good ranking.

[Kenan]

You're saying L322 classic.

[Doug DeMuro]

L322 Range Rover classic. New Range Rover 405.

[Filippo]

You know what?

[Doug DeMuro]

That's mine. Incredibly.

[Filippo]

I'll get behind it.

[Doug DeMuro]

Well, you agree with mine.

[Kenan]

I think I would put P38 where you have classic.

[Doug DeMuro]

My second.

[Filippo]

Second.

[Doug DeMuro]

I love it first.

[Kenan]

I'm leaning in human being and I put the 405 at the bottom.

[Doug DeMuro]

I have places to go.

[Filippo]

The 405 was a great car.

[Kenan]

Yeah.

[Doug DeMuro]

So what's first?

[Kenan]

The P38, like the classic is an icon.

[Doug DeMuro]

What's first for you? The 322.

[Kenan]

I think the 322.

[Doug DeMuro]

I want to clear here. We both have ranked the L3.22 first. This does not count the 03 to 05 models. Those are utter. Do not buy one of those unless.

[Filippo]

It'S for sale cars and bids.

[Doug DeMuro]

No. And if this, if this rant makes people never sell one again on cars and bids. Thank God.

[Kenan]

Yeah. When I think of a Range Rover, that is still what I think the.

[Doug DeMuro]

Oh, the 06-12s are really great cars. Okay, next question.

[Filippo]

How do we get away with. This is the first time we've done a ranking. And Instagram will agree.

[Doug DeMuro]

Well, I don't know about. I don't think that's true. But Instagram. Instagram generally prefers. I've looked at the comments and I've generally seen that Instagram prefers the rattiest as the first. No, they would. They would be 38.

[Filippo]

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[Doug DeMuro]

Okay, here's a great question from Joe with a zero. Where is the floor on the previous gen AMG gt? Boy, that's a good question. Pull up our sales.

[Kenan]

Not low enough. No, they are. They're less than you would think.

[Doug DeMuro]

Hit lowest price.

[Filippo]

Oh, they're so much less than you think.

[Doug DeMuro]

These cars are selling routinely in the low 60s now.

[Kenan]

I think they're going to keep going down.

[Filippo]

They are exotic looking.

[Doug DeMuro]

This car has 14,000 miles and sold for $63,000. This is a bona fide exotic car.

[Kenan]

So with 28,000 miles you got to assume like and that six months ago how many miles these cars are in the 50s? 38. This one had 38,000 miles and sold for 62,500.

[Doug DeMuro]

Solar beam. These cars are in, I'm telling you, these cars are in the 50s.

[Filippo]

They're such good looking cars.

[Doug DeMuro]

So the question is, where's the floor?

[Kenan]

I think it, I think it would go down a little bit more, but I mean it's a pretty great value as it stands.

[Doug DeMuro]

Why do we think there is a floor? What's a 17911 cost?

[Filippo]

Double that.

[Doug DeMuro]

Yeah, double 120.

[Filippo]

No, but in the high.

[Kenan]

No, but they're like mid-80s. Yeah, I mean that's not an exaggeration.

[Doug DeMuro]

Wild. This is a wild thing that's happened. By the way, the four door GT63 is the greatest four door car I've ever driven in my entire life. Wow. I'm gonna say. Okay, all right, what do you got what do you think's better? Lucid air?

[Filippo]

Yeah. No, the GT63 is a special car. I think there is a floor because there is a floor to that level of combustion engine performance, I guess.

[Kenan]

But I mean.

[Filippo]

But the V8, at some point that becomes much more desirable.

[Doug DeMuro]

I think these cars make it into the 30s.

[Filippo]

I think 30s is where my head went.

[Kenan]

I think.

[Doug DeMuro]

Yeah.

[Kenan]

For a tired one with some bad odds.

[Doug DeMuro]

I don't think. I think you're wrong. I think when they're just 15 years old, they're going to be generally in the 30s.

[Kenan]

I don't know that shape for 30. Like that seems kind of, I don't.

[Doug DeMuro]

Know, 30, but like 37, 33 to 37 for like an okay one.

[Kenan]

So it's gonna be between this and a Gen 1 Viper. The same placement here.

[Filippo]

Yeah, that's what a DB9 cost costs. Yeah, and that's a gorgeous.

[Kenan]

Yeah, but the D89 is cheap because it is unreliable. As I've done more research, it turns.

[Doug DeMuro]

Out that I think there's a presumption that these are, will be unreliable as they age.

[Kenan]

No, I did highly disagree.

[Doug DeMuro]

But I think people, German cars appreciate because of that presumption. But whether or not you think it.

[Kenan]

Will, I don't think. Yeah, but this engine's in everything. I mean it's, it's. But this engine's notoriously reliable.

[Doug DeMuro]

It might be, but. But my point is that they, they end up with a reputation for potentially having issues. Do you understand?

[Kenan]

I understand that I want to do research on if these actually do or.

[Doug DeMuro]

Not, but I don't think that matters. My point is used Mercedes, I know your G cars always lose value because people think they're on.

[Kenan]

I get your point. That applies to most 4 door normal AMG cars. This is, this is a very serious looking sports car.

[Doug DeMuro]

But he's right. Vantages, DB9 advantages are reliable.

[Filippo]

SL63s don't like once they're 10, 20 years old are in the below 30s.

[Kenan]

But that again is.

[Doug DeMuro]

Why is that different?

[Kenan]

But I think because like if you're talking about public perception, most people will look at those cars and just think it's kind of an old sl. This doesn't look old, nor does it look like an time. It looks more like give it time, it'll look old.

[Doug DeMuro]

And keep in mind the SL was renamed to be this in the next generation. I think you're exactly right. Maybe it'll go lower than 30s. I'm saying 20s, no floor to the floor. What's an SL? 55 cost. 8,800 bucks. Truly. What's an SL 55 cost? How is this any different? The only difference is 14 years pull up lowest price. I bet you can get one for 8810. 450, same thing.

[Filippo]

I don't think it's just that these were focused. This era of Mercedes Benz AMG was focused on speed, not handling performance. The. The more modern, much more modern MG GT is a better handling, better driving car. And that will keep it appealing to enthusiasts at a certain price.

[Kenan]

Well, this is more related to the. In most people's eyes, I think the sls than this was the slr, for instance. Like, this is more related. Looks more like a supercar, like in a lot of people's minds.

[Filippo]

So I don't know these 30s and apparently like 100 grand.

[Kenan]

No, no, I think it's gonna be like somewhere in the. In the 40s, I think is probably. But I mean, still, I mean, so you lose ten grand on one if you bought one of the. That one or this. I mean, like.

[Doug DeMuro]

Yeah, no, they're. Either way. Even if it gets into the 30s, you're talking years. They'll be pretty. They're pretty good buys now.

[Kenan]

Yeah, it's a solid.

[Doug DeMuro]

But they did lose value quick, quicker than I expected. And they are still going down. And I'm pretty impressed with it. I'm shocked at the. At the value prop here. And I think especially a good value prop is this GT63 four door. And I want one. I want one bad. I saw one today. I was in the courage of TF someone today. He's coming towards me. GT yeah, GT634. He's coming towards me and I. And I'm looking at him like, oh, and he didn't even see the courage.

[Filippo]

Or t. I will say, which is.

[Kenan]

A perfect example of why I don't really like those cars. It's the people who drive.

[Doug DeMuro]

I agree. The way they drive is these cars are so athletic. It's amazing how they drive. Truly amazing.

[Filippo]

I will also say none of what we said applies to the GT53 four door or the GT43 four door.

[Doug DeMuro]

Those are going to the zero.

[Filippo]

Six cylinders will be worth zero.

[Doug DeMuro]

Eventually going to zero. Okay, next question. This is another beautiful question. Do it like Trump say. Beautiful question.

[Kenan]

Another beautiful question.

[Doug DeMuro]

All right. From Haziel. Haziel, Haziel. What do you think? This is a great one for us. Kenneth, what do you think is the least desirable car worth over a million dollars?

[Kenan]

Oh, man.

[Doug DeMuro]

I can name.

[Kenan]

I could Give you a lot. There are a lot of cars. I cannot believe over a million dollars.

[Doug DeMuro]

New Countach is really deeply up there.

[Kenan]

It's on that list firmly.

[Doug DeMuro]

But there's a lot.

[Kenan]

There are a lot.

[Filippo]

Can you name some?

[Doug DeMuro]

Yeah. Oh, I mean, I mean, Pagani, Huayra, New Countach, Lamborghini, Siam Lamborghini, Most Koenigseggs, Aventador FKP57 or whatever it was called. Lamborghini Centenario, Lamborghini of Revintone. Lamborghini super low production stupid Lamborghinis. Yeah, most Koenigseggs only because they're incredibly unreliable.

[Kenan]

I'm sure there's some. I'm sure there's some BS. Jerry Seinfeld 356. That's a million.

[Doug DeMuro]

That's a great. That is actually a great example. Anyway, any air cooled that. That a normal person couldn't tell apart from another air cooled that's over a million dollars is number one on this list.

[Kenan]

If it looks like a bathtub and it's over a million dollars on that list, we.

[Doug DeMuro]

We know it so badly. We know it so little that. That it doesn't belong.

[Kenan]

Okay, well, I mean, when it makes. Yeah. When it makes 43 horsepower, I can't really be bothered with that.

[Doug DeMuro]

No. McLaren Saber.

[Kenan]

Yeah, it's.

[Filippo]

You don't even know I do it, actually. Surprisingly.

[Kenan]

I mean, and to be clear, a lot of people will think these cars are. It's just, just. It's hard to justify, it's hard to underscore how much a million dollars is.

[Doug DeMuro]

It's a million dollars.

[Kenan]

And especially because that car is $1.3 million. And that's better than all of them.

[Doug DeMuro]

Yeah. So like new Ford gt.

[Filippo]

Wow.

[Kenan]

Well, those are not a million dollars.

[Doug DeMuro]

No, they're not.

[Filippo]

I love when we make fans on the show.

[Doug DeMuro]

No, but I mean, there's. There's a lot of this stuff that is like crazy crazy. These supercars that were made just to make rich people feel special.

[Kenan]

Right.

[Doug DeMuro]

To me, have. Do not have significant.

[Kenan]

And back when we were young, like when the Enzo. When an Enzo traded hand for 1.2, it was like. I mean, because there were only a handful of cars in that realm that weren't like super vintage Ferraris or like whatever, but like, remember when Akuda sold for over a million? You remember that?

[Doug DeMuro]

Yeah.

[Kenan]

I mean, there's one that's like Ubers.

[Doug DeMuro]

Were paying big money for that stuff at the time. I gotta be honest with you, I find those cars to be more desirable.

[Kenan]

Yeah. Well, we would rather have Those cars. But yeah, they're just, they're so many cars that are over a million now. And I just don't think that it's not a million.

[Doug DeMuro]

So many cars over a million that were just made to be really rich guy. Rich guy jewel cars. Like they're not like, like the cars that were over a million before were because the market felt they were worth a million. And the cars that are over a million now, Lamborghini comes out with a rebodied Aventador, calls it a countach, prices it at 2.8. And, and, and then the only people who buy them are rich guys who never drive them who think because they got a call to buy one that they're special. And the market has shown that that's not a lot of interest in those cars. They're dropping like flies on the used market.

[Kenan]

Right. At one point in the past that was true. If you got that call to buy an end zone, you were.

[Doug DeMuro]

That's right. That's exactly right. There was a time when if you got a call to buy one of these cars. And now as Ed Bullion told me, he said, people come to me and say I got an allocation for this. And Ed told me, he said, the thing I asked the people is, did you do anything to deserve this allocation? And he said, if the answer is no, you probably don't want the allocation because that car is going to depreciate like crazy. Which we're already finding.

[Kenan]

It's a very. That's the, that's the nuance there. I realize that these cars are all crazy and stuff, but like that's the.

[Filippo]

Can you expect an SF90 to over a million?

[Doug DeMuro]

No, you can probably get close.

[Kenan]

880 was the highest, but there's now.

[Doug DeMuro]

That SF90 High Performance One.

[Kenan]

Well, there's.

[Filippo]

Yes.

[Doug DeMuro]

So probably maybe.

[Kenan]

Well, there's no. Yeah, add that to the list.

[Doug DeMuro]

Yeah, truly. Okay, next question. This. And so the answer is there's a lot of them. And we kind of. I've gotten to the point where I really only respect the million dollar cars. If they weren't a million bucks originally and the market has kind of taken them there. There are some excep to that. Like the Bugatti Veyron, the Bugatti Chiron, the Pagani, Zonda. Probably wasn't a million originally, but it's been a long time in a million.

[Kenan]

No, it was nowhere near a million.

[Doug DeMuro]

Yeah, there, there are some others too, if I really thought about. I actually really do like the rev tone. I, I said I mentioned it only because I was going off, but yeah, yeah, but you get my point. Like I, I think a lot of the newer crop of cars that don't really, for me a million bucks better buy you the greatest driving car of all time or the fastest car in the world or whatever. When it's just a rebodied car that is low production just because it's low production, it's not special.

[Filippo]

By the way, if you those cars and you decide to sell it because Doug doesn't like it, sell it on car Doug.

[Doug DeMuro]

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[Kenan]

It's just the prototype one I grew up with.355 the F355.

[Doug DeMuro]

What do you think of a Ferrari? Trying to think of it right now.

[Filippo]

I'm trying to think 2.

[Doug DeMuro]

To me it's like I don't know if I think of an exact car, but it is definitely a red mid engine, red tan mid engine. It's either a458 or a488. I think something like that.

[Filippo]

Interesting.

[Doug DeMuro]

When I think, oh, it's a Ferrari. That's what it is. When someone says to me, me, hey, I have a Jeep, I know they're talking about a Wrangler.

[Filippo]

Right.

[Doug DeMuro]

When someone says to me, I have a Ferrari, my. If. If someone is to say that, my presumption would be they're in a 458 or four a day.

[Kenan]

It's not a Mondial mid engine red.

[Filippo]

Somebody says they have a Ferrari 308 GT4 Ferrari. Like to me, an F430 for some reason.

[Doug DeMuro]

Yeah.

[Kenan]

Maybe F130, age wise.

[Filippo]

Yeah. Okay.

[Doug DeMuro]

What about a Porsche 911 930. Oh, damn.

[Kenan]

There were a bunch in my hometown. I. I remember seeing him all the time.

[Doug DeMuro]

I think of a silver 991. What do you think of?

[Filippo]

I was going to say a pretty base 997.

[Doug DeMuro]

Pretty base 997. A Porsche 911 to me is a silver 911.

[Filippo]

There was like an. An era which was 997 era. When in like every movie, the rich guy, Rich ish guy. Drove a 997 Coupe.

[Doug DeMuro]

Yeah.

[Filippo]

And that's just where my head goes, I guess.

[Doug DeMuro]

But to me, when someone says I have a 911, they probably have a base991.

[Filippo]

I think that that's fair. I don't.

[Doug DeMuro]

But when you think of 997 or.

[Filippo]

No, I love it. I think 997.

[Doug DeMuro]

What about a Lamborghini? A Lamborghini thinking too much.

[Filippo]

I think today you'd think Huracan. I think, I think Gallardo.

[Doug DeMuro]

Yeah. I think Gallardo e Huracani level is.

[Kenan]

The first one that comes.

[Doug DeMuro]

Wow.

[Filippo]

Really good for you.

[Kenan]

Black mirrors.

[Doug DeMuro]

Your brain is great. You have all these wonderful.

[Kenan]

I'm telling you.

[Doug DeMuro]

But when I'm thinking. When I hear Lamborghini, I'm thinking about a Huracan. Like, that's a Lamborghini. To me, that's kind of a prototype.

[Filippo]

Somebody comes up to me, I own a Lamborghini.

[Doug DeMuro]

They got a Huracan. But. And when I. And when someone says a Lamborghini, like if someone is telling me a story and they're not into cars and they say, I saw this Lamborghini, my assumption is they saw a hurricane.

[Filippo]

They did.

[Kenan]

That's true. I hear that. I'm just saying from my own perspective.

[Filippo]

And if they saw a Ferrari, I think you're right. Like a 4 or 5, 8 is or like a California or red California.

[Doug DeMuro]

It could be California, but. But in that context, I would think of a California. But still when I think of a Ferrari, I think of a.

[Kenan]

You know, when someone said, oh, I saw a Ferrari, what was it? It was probably 911. It was a McLaren. That's what they saw.

[Doug DeMuro]

Yeah.

[Kenan]

Or it was an alpha male 4C.

[Doug DeMuro]

What's the one that starts with M? Okay, okay.

[Kenan]

Oh, Maserati. It's a Ghibli 100% of the time, people.

[Doug DeMuro]

Which by the way, no floor on those. Okay, here's a good question from Frank AP rank the decades of cars from the 80s to the 2000s. No.

[Kenan]

Oh, that's pretty easy.

[Doug DeMuro]

Okay. We agree that number one is 2000 to 2010. The 2000s.

[Kenan]

That was peak. That was our 60s.

[Doug DeMuro]

It gets. And, and, and I hate to be one of those people, but the worst is now. The worst is the 2020.

[Filippo]

Have you seen 1980s cars?

[Doug DeMuro]

The. The worst is the 2020.

[Kenan]

I don't have that.

[Doug DeMuro]

Everything's tipping.

[Filippo]

I don't think supercars. I obviously my brain never goes to supercars. An average car in the 80s, I.

[Doug DeMuro]

Didn'T even consider average cars.

[Kenan]

Yep.

[Filippo]

Nope.

[Kenan]

Sorry. Please. Better my mind in that case, actually. Well, that does change things if we think of it. We do want to think.

[Filippo]

I do agree with 2006.

[Doug DeMuro]

No, I think it's a. I think he's right that you should rank them all.

[Kenan]

Okay. I still think we have a pretty good point. There are a lot of really good normal cars between 2000 and 2000.

[Filippo]

No, 2000 for sure.

[Kenan]

I think for sure. Honda was killing it at the time.

[Doug DeMuro]

Yeah. Great, man. Everybody had an NA four cylinder and a V6 in their midsize. Figure out was a plug in hybrid.

[Kenan]

Or names kind of made sense. Like, man, this works some. Like we sound like the elderly.

[Filippo]

That's tough.

[Doug DeMuro]

Okay. But that was a good era for cars. Just look behind me and see the two cars behind me that hail from that era.

[Kenan]

Yeah. I don't know.

[Doug DeMuro]

You wouldn't go to me for that shot. Okay. Okay. So then it gets harder.

[Kenan]

Yeah. Yep.

[Doug DeMuro]

Then it gets harder.

[Filippo]

I. I think I have to put 80s last.

[Doug DeMuro]

Okay.

[Filippo]

I just think that the average car in the 80s, even sports car in the 80s just were not. There were some garbage at the top of the. Yes.

[Kenan]

When it was that weird transition coming out of the 70s and out of.

[Filippo]

Fuel crisis into slightly better versions of that. But like really early tech. They've aged poorly. I will also note knowing cards and bits data. 80s is by far the rarest type of car we sell because there aren't that many great enthusiast cars from the era in the US The Germans were not large at. You were not.

[Doug DeMuro]

You know, I wrote that article about how 80s cars are bad and everybody.

[Kenan]

Hated it because everybody just thinks of exactly what you and I did. The F40 and like. And you've made a point that no good cars were made in the 1980s.

[Filippo]

80S.

[Doug DeMuro]

No good cars came out of the 80s. I really believe that. Except for the very end.

[Filippo]

Right.

[Doug DeMuro]

However, a lot of good cars did come out of the end. The E30, the F40, the Countach Anniversario 959. Yeah, the 959.

[Filippo]

Those are really nice.

[Doug DeMuro]

Speaking of 959, there's a fella in my neighborhood who parks. Who parks a 959. 991 in his driveway and it's a four car garage. And I figure if he's parking a 991 in his driveway, he's got a 959. Probably. That's my assumption.

[Kenan]

Aren't they like they depreciate again? There's like $60,000 cars. I mean it's still something I've outside he's talking about the 991 have depreciated.

[Doug DeMuro]

Okay. The next. The next. This is really hard, but I think that the, the. I'm not going to put 80s last. I'll probably put the tens next. Then the 90s.

[Kenan]

Yep.

[Doug DeMuro]

Then the now.

[Filippo]

So you are going to put 80s last?

[Doug DeMuro]

No, the 80s then the now. Wow.

[Filippo]

You think that 80s cars are better than today's cars?

[Doug DeMuro]

No. Well, I'm not by the standard of today. I'm not judging these by the standard of today. Should I be? Yes, of course.

[Filippo]

What?

[Doug DeMuro]

Well, it's, it's. To me it's more about like how good were they at? I mean if you want me to judge stuff by the standard of Today, then the SP3 is better than the F40. Then the Cali T is better than the F40. We have to judge things by the. By what?

[Filippo]

That clip. The Cali T. The Cali T is.

[Doug DeMuro]

Better than the Daytona on.

[Filippo]

Yeah. Okay. Taking into account the.

[Doug DeMuro]

What happened in the time, I mean, I think I stick by that. I think mine is right. 2000s and then tens. Tens were good stuff. We were starting to get a little hybrid. We were starting to get a little automatic. But 90s 90s there were a lot of very rounded designs and not much power and bad quality. A lot of cars Got plasticky and bad.

[Kenan]

But I would say from the beginning of the 90s to the end of the 90s, you gained a lot of power. Like everything got a of lot lot better build quality, got better design, got better. Like everything. The 90s were a really special time. And that transition into what we love in the early 2000s, let me tell.

[Doug DeMuro]

You, when I think 90s you meant to think about. I think about Acuras.

[Filippo]

Yep.

[Doug DeMuro]

With cloth seats and 15 inch alloys. And wait, this is going to drive the point home. Those long transmission levers that made a T at the top that you push the button in and then shift it into gear. But I also think about the Ford Explorer. That was bad too, but it was.

[Filippo]

Created the modern era of car.

[Doug DeMuro]

Cars got transmission problems, they rolled over with tire issues and they recalled 4 billion of them in cash for clunkers and destroyed them because nobody wanted.

[Filippo]

That was a lot of terms that did not make sense in us.

[Kenan]

And they called for cash just as.

[Doug DeMuro]

Bad, said bring them on back.

[Kenan]

As bad as the cars you've just spoken about were, there were some amazing cars that balanced it out.

[Doug DeMuro]

You're talking about the F50 specifically.

[Kenan]

You're talking about the F Claren F1 EB110, the 97 Accord 993, 993 Turbo S. Like, I mean there were really. I mean, it was E39.5, E39.5, 1998 when it came out in Europe.

[Doug DeMuro]

Still, I prefer the tens because the tens gave us the 918 spyder, which is an amazing automobile.

[Kenan]

Yes. You love it so much.

[Doug DeMuro]

No, the tens gave us the tens. The tens got us technology and goodness.

[Kenan]

And reliability and still had some, some analog in there.

[Doug DeMuro]

So My ranking is 2000s, tens, nineties, eighties. Now what's yours?

[Kenan]

It's not far off that far off that.

[Doug DeMuro]

But your 90s after. After.

[Kenan]

I think 90s after 2000s and then the tens. Just because such a high 80s are.

[Doug DeMuro]

Better than the now or 80. Wait, before you say anything, let me remind you about the Hyundai Kona. You plug that thing in. Dude, it's not even a car. Back in the 80s, you know what cars did they. And now you know what cars do they go.

[Filippo]

So you've never been around a Dodge Reliant, I take it?

[Kenan]

I think I agree with him. I think I agree with him.

[Filippo]

With who?

[Kenan]

Him.

[Filippo]

Him.

[Kenan]

Oh,'80s.

[Filippo]

All right, well, you guys are not going to agree with anything that I'm about to say.

[Doug DeMuro]

Okay, well, no, we're, we're in agreement with first and last here Filippo's going.

[Kenan]

To put it in reverse chronological order.

[Doug DeMuro]

That's what you have next you're going to agree with us except you have 80s last instead of second to last. You're not going to put 20.

[Filippo]

So the issue with the contrary current era is that we are very much in a transitionary era. I think like cars are transitioning thing.

[Kenan]

A little bit different transitions.

[Doug DeMuro]

Yeah, I mean I think they all were.

[Kenan]

Every era is like that. We're always changing. It's never the same. I mean even when the car came out it changed every decade. A 1918.

[Doug DeMuro]

What I mean by that is underslung.

[Filippo]

Okay.

[Kenan]

It's very different from a 1928 Packard.

[Doug DeMuro]

What is going on?

[Kenan]

Which is different from a 1930 like 1938 cord which is different from. You don't know what I'm talking about.

[Doug DeMuro]

My point is think about the under.

[Filippo]

Slung which obviously I know a lot about American underslung.

[Kenan]

Great one.

[Filippo]

The the 80s era transition from like after the. The the fuel crisis into figuring out how to make cars that were relatively fuel efficient, rank and decent.

[Doug DeMuro]

The cars the.

[Filippo]

The 90s were becoming the modern era. SUVs were becoming big larger cars. Japanese really took hold and the Europeans really took hold in a meaningful way. The 2000s were the pinnacle. 2020s are a transitionary era into electric and trying to figure out what is.

[Doug DeMuro]

The right the car.

[Kenan]

Look, we understand your justification. You're trying to avoid the hate in the comments.

[Doug DeMuro]

No, I don't get 20s now.

[Filippo]

No, I don't. He does deep rank the cars 90s second.

[Doug DeMuro]

So you're over here saying we're different from you. Yeah, you got. You get the exact same ranking.

[Filippo]

No, no, we differ on 20s.

[Doug DeMuro]

So 2000s, tens, twenties, eighties, we're more lin. I will say here's, here's the interesting thing about these rankings. Okay, I'm going to hold them up. Can you see me?

[Filippo]

Can you see it? Can you read it?

[Doug DeMuro]

Here's the interesting thing about these rankings. All of us put the 80s and the 20s last. So now and the oldest that we were getting given and we all put the 2000s first. To me the 2000s were kind of the pinnacle of the combustion engine era. And it was before tech took over too much and just so many great cars came out of that era. It was the last era that we could really get away with some of the stuff that happened.

[Kenan]

I think it was maybe the first time that the technology had risen to the point where the cars were really fast, amazing to drive, reliable yeah. And like. And they have longevity. Yeah, it was the.

[Filippo]

It was.

[Kenan]

And the design was great. The sizing was nice. It was like.

[Doug DeMuro]

And, and you weren't quite to the. To the tech thing yet, where you had big screens that are going to become outdated, problematic and all that. It was quite a. Quite a period.

[Kenan]

Little bits of it, but it was enough to put off because the cars were so amazing.

[Doug DeMuro]

It's also pretty amazing how, you know, if you compare an 80s car to a 2000s car, so 20 years, the performance difference is unbelievable.

[Filippo]

Yeah.

[Doug DeMuro]

If you compare, if you Compare a good 2000s car to a modern car, performance difference isn't that significant.

[Filippo]

That's notably different.

[Doug DeMuro]

Well, but in what way? I mean, yeah, a plaid is faster than career gt, but you're starting to get into a level that is unusable. Right. And. And it really isn't. Isn't. If, therefore it's not really effective. Like where. Whereas a car you bought in the 2000s, that was a good car, feels fast even by today's standards.

[Kenan]

I agree. And that's also. Yeah. And that's why that the values on those cars have gone up so dramatically. People have realized that is like you're.

[Filippo]

Once again talking about supercars.

[Doug DeMuro]

No, no, think about, think about when SRT launched and they had all those six one hemis with 425 horsepower. That, that was a legitimately. Those were legitimately fast cars that still feel fast. I get into a Grand Cherokee SRT8 now or a Magnum SRT8, which I've never driven, but I get into one now. I think it's fast. A B7RS4, I think is a fast car car. Those were good. Those cars had modern performance, which you can't say about the 80s. C5,06. Even normal cars. A Honda Accordion 05 had 240 horsepower. That was enough.

[Filippo]

V6. Yeah, I, yeah, I think the 2000s, especially early 2000s, were the traditional car perfected. And then at that point, you have to. After that, you have to figure out, okay, how do I actually make this fuel efficient? How do I adapt the traditional car perfected.

[Doug DeMuro]

And you know what? All this perfecting was done over all these years. Let me have the remark. All this perfecting was done over all these years. And you know where they got that very top, the pinnacle of perfecting.

[Kenan]

God.

[Doug DeMuro]

I will say Pagani Zonda 05.

[Kenan]

Thank you.

[Filippo]

05 was kind of the end of the gauge.

[Doug DeMuro]

No, I, I think, I think it went into 06.07. I will say 08.09 was starting to begin the hybrids. The, the transition to automatics.

[Filippo]

Cost cutting was huge at that point.

[Doug DeMuro]

Four cylinders starting to replace V6s, which was sad for us. Us we like three liter.

[Filippo]

There were no good GM products from after.

[Doug DeMuro]

Oh that's true. The recession took hold and that killed some stuff.

[Filippo]

And also pre recession took hold and killed some stuff.

[Kenan]

Well.

[Doug DeMuro]

0708-09-0605.

[Filippo]

Laziness.

[Doug DeMuro]

I agree with you. I think that. I think that the 2000s, the sweet spot is about 02 to 07 for really the good stuff. The Tahoe hybrid was not part of the good stuff.

[Filippo]

No. But 20 mpg city.

[Doug DeMuro]

Which actually at the time, I looked this up the other day at the time The Honda Pilot got 18 City. So the Tahoe hybrid that was actually pretty rare.

[Kenan]

We are off the rails. Hit us with the next question.

[Doug DeMuro]

Tony Soprano Suburban asks if you could steritify other sports cars from the modern era, which would you choose? That's a good question. You know the 959 did it first.

[Kenan]

Yeah, it did. It did for Dakar.

[Doug DeMuro]

You could sterrato ify other sports cars to the modern era. What should you do? 911 is a good example.

[Filippo]

But they did it all right. The R8ST would be cool.

[Doug DeMuro]

They kind of did that. It's called the Stado with.

[Filippo]

With a. I'm thinking of the R8 stick first gen lift.

[Kenan]

So wait, I'm sorry. The question was modern cars. So cars that are currently in production.

[Doug DeMuro]

Can I make, can I make a. A statement here?

[Kenan]

Sure.

[Doug DeMuro]

Mustang. Remember there was talk that you're going to do this?

[Filippo]

There was.

[Doug DeMuro]

And when I thought about it, you know what I thought of? The rally fighter. The local motors rally fighter.

[Kenan]

Yeah.

[Filippo]

Yeah.

[Doug DeMuro]

Which is a lifted Mustang but with Civic tail lights.

[Filippo]

Yep. Trusting decision, not out of space.

[Kenan]

I just. It's not that it was a decision. I missed it. You don't know how hard this is. Go back to sleep.

[Filippo]

I'm going to be honest. I did it once and I that moment learn how hard it is.

[Kenan]

I'll take the apology, but yes, the rally.

[Doug DeMuro]

So this is when I, when they said off road Mustang. This is what I thought they were going to make. And instead what they made was nothing.

[Filippo]

But the Mustang Mach E Rally. Come on.

[Doug DeMuro]

Yeah. That is unfortunately what's happened. That would be cool. An off road Mustang I think would be cool.

[Filippo]

Yeah.

[Doug DeMuro]

Cuz like let's be honest. Every Mustang guy has a truck or wants a truck. You know what I'm saying?

[Kenan]

No.

[Doug DeMuro]

Give them what they want.

[Kenan]

29296 rally car would be pretty cool.

[Doug DeMuro]

Yeah. Ferraris are too fragile.

[Kenan]

Yep. They don't. They did the 308 rally car in the 1980s. That would be really cool. Yeah, it would be really cool. Yeah. Did you know about that?

[Filippo]

No.

[Doug DeMuro]

It's got all sorts of Italian graphics on it.

[Kenan]

You'll love it again, mister. Look at that.

[Doug DeMuro]

That.

[Filippo]

Oh, that is cool.

[Kenan]

Look at that full opposite. Well, pretty close to anyone. Pretty cool.

[Filippo]

Nice.

[Kenan]

Anyway, 296 with those graphics.

[Doug DeMuro]

Ferraris are too fragile.

[Filippo]

Yeah, the styling doesn't work for off road.

[Kenan]

New nsx, new ns, off road, new.

[Doug DeMuro]

Nsx, new Supra TRD Pro.

[Filippo]

Yes, that works oddly.

[Doug DeMuro]

I don't know. I all, to be honest is the answer.

[Kenan]

I mean any car that is done to any is cooler.

[Doug DeMuro]

There should be a off road version of every new sports car.

[Filippo]

Hey Stradman, if you're listening, go put some tank treads on the super. You guys have.

[Doug DeMuro]

You think Stradman's going to do this for us? I think there's a chance, Filippo. This I think is something that we have to do for ourselves.

[Filippo]

Maybe Stradman will beat us to it.

[Doug DeMuro]

What about the challenger?

[Kenan]

Nah, nah.

[Doug DeMuro]

Too big. What about the Z?

[Kenan]

Too heavy.

[Filippo]

Yeah.

[Doug DeMuro]

The answer is all of them. I would buy any and all. And by buy, I mean think about buying and then not buy like I did with the Starat. Although I got close.

[Filippo]

Yeah, close.

[Doug DeMuro]

I was talking, remember walking around on Nantucket, talking to the dealer. Okay.

[Kenan]

Wow. Gee, thanks Flex. Talk to your Lambo dealer in Nantucket.

[Doug DeMuro]

Okay, I know, but that was. That's unusual there. Okay, Today's episode is brought to you by True Classic, the makers of really, really nice shirts and other garments that actually fit. Look, I'm a style icon. My signature 2T shirts are known around the globe. But sometimes I want just one nice fitting shirt that's comfortable in all the right areas. While adding a bit of definition to my appearance. True Classic has one mission. To make sure guys look good and feel even better. And they've nailed fit, feel and price across your entire wardrobe. Not just tees, but hoodies, jeans, activewear, everything you need to level up your everyday style. And True Classic isn't just about great clothes. Their brand DNA is built on being highly intentional in everything they do. On their website, you can use their amazing style guide which has you enter details like your height, weight, age and other brands that fit you well to ensure that you're getting the best fit. I've been wearing True Classic for a while Now. And from the first piece I put on, I knew it was different. Snug where you want it, relaxed where you need it. No weird bunching, no awkward tight spots. Just a clean, effortless fit that works. Forget overpriced designer nonsense. Skip the cheap throwaways. True Classic delivers premium essentials built for real life. Grab yours at Target or Costco or head to trueclassic.comcars to get hooked up today. Again, that's trueclassic.comcars. next question, question, next question from Paragon Bids for everyone. Realistically, how many years would it take for ice. Ice cars, internal combustion engine to be a thing of the past? How long until they're just gone?

[Kenan]

I think a lot longer than people realize based on how things have been going recently.

[Doug DeMuro]

I don't think in our lifetime.

[Filippo]

I don't think ever.

[Kenan]

No, I mean, like, gone isn't like truly there. None left on the planet or like currently in production.

[Doug DeMuro]

He's looking at me. He knows he said something insane.

[Filippo]

Say a little tip.

[Doug DeMuro]

I think ever, like 2,000 years, you're going to come back.

[Filippo]

Ever was not the I'm going to come back. I don't see that happening fully in the reasonable future.

[Doug DeMuro]

You mean in your lifetime, which in your opinion is.

[Filippo]

Or the subsequent one.

[Kenan]

I'm sorry, the subsequent ones. Just clarify that to me again. So, like, you mean they're none in production anymore? Like manufacturer production?

[Doug DeMuro]

No, no, no, not production. I think he's saying how long would it take for the. The way I'm reading it, how long would it take for them to be a thing of the. Like, ice cars are just something that you read about in history books. Now let me ask you a question. Do you think horse and buggy is still around? Are you going to sit here and be like, well, there are some people. Yes.

[Kenan]

Have you been to the ice country?

[Doug DeMuro]

Okay, so basically your point is horse and buggy never went away.

[Filippo]

I think that there will always be people that share it and always meaning in modern civilization until that all collapses, there will be people that want to keep some small number of special cards.

[Kenan]

Cars running legitimately well and like with synthetic fuels and stuff like that.

[Filippo]

I think it will be much sooner than that. But I think that there's a long, long, long, long tail to that.

[Doug DeMuro]

Yeah, agreed.

[Filippo]

In production 20 years.

[Kenan]

But I think our. I. I don't disagree. Our entire lifetimes will be able to hear an internal combustion engine. We'll probably own them.

[Doug DeMuro]

Yeah.

[Kenan]

You won't.

[Filippo]

Nope.

[Kenan]

You won't go. Really? You won't own your Fiat Panda 4X for.

[Filippo]

Nope.

[Kenan]

EV swap it.

[Filippo]

Cocky. Imagine.

[Doug DeMuro]

I think that, I think that it's going to take an enormous amount of time.

[Kenan]

I, I genuinely think it will be generations.

[Doug DeMuro]

I think it's going to take enormous amount of time for them to be gone. Gone. One of the things that I think about when I think about this is New Jersey's license plates. And I think you'd agree. All right, here's, here's my analogy. 1959 New Jersey comes out with a license plate plate. They've never replaced it. So if you. And you could keep transferring it. So in theory, you could have had this license plate since 1959 and always had it on your car forever. You could. To this day, the 1959 New Jersey license plate is still valid. Okay. But what happened was as the new ones come out, 85% of plates are gone within a couple years. But you drive around New Jersey and you will still see a few of the old 1959 straw License plates which are still available, which are still around on some cars that's still valid. So I think that's going to be the same with ice car.

[Filippo]

Yeah. You think any teens are driven around with the little red square?

[Doug DeMuro]

Yeah, absolutely. You'd see blue plates with the red square and those came out like early 80s.

[Filippo]

Wow.

[Doug DeMuro]

Okay.

[Filippo]

Because if you're a teenager you have to put a little red square on the side of the split.

[Kenan]

So yeah, before, I mean, and even after that they'll be relegated to museums and stuff like that.

[Doug DeMuro]

But there'll be in museums. But I think that people. I agree that it's going to be a lot longer than people think. I think that it's going to. In our lifetimes there will still be ICE cars driving on the road like.

[Kenan]

Around People love cars. And ultimately like I still think that there's something to a gasoline engine that is exciting.

[Filippo]

At what point will it whether it's.

[Kenan]

In a one cylinder car from the late 1800s or now, like there's.

[Doug DeMuro]

Well. But also it's just hard to replace them. And they're still being made in massive numbers. Massive.

[Filippo]

At what point will they be less than 1% of like vehicles. Miles. Miles. Vehicle.

[Doug DeMuro]

Way. Way in the future.

[Kenan]

And don't forget also there are markets that depend on it like Africa as a continent depends on dies like internal combustion.

[Doug DeMuro]

The concept that, that in a lot of these emerging markets that EVs are going to take over tomorrow is like laughable. This is, this is like an American and European like luxury thing. To even discuss it Absolutely. Okay, next question from 172Pilot. He asked two questions. I'm only going to answer ask the second one because it's gooder. What cars would you guys like to see? Heritage editions of like the stronger than the 1980s G O in a second.

[Kenan]

Right?

[Filippo]

What would that be?

[Doug DeMuro]

Okay, they take. They make a new car and they make it a manual and a V6.

[Filippo]

Oh, so it's a different car entirely. Not unlike the strong M80s.

[Doug DeMuro]

No. You know what they do?

[Filippo]

Paint, color and a little script.

[Doug DeMuro]

Here's what they do. You call it the 1990s reboot version. You make the new NSX, but without the hybrid stuff and with a V6 and A.

[Filippo]

So you want an entirely different car?

[Doug DeMuro]

No, the current nsx, the existing export with a different set.

[Filippo]

Powertrain.

[Doug DeMuro]

No, same powertrain. Just pull off the hybrid stuff.

[Filippo]

It's a different powertrain.

[Doug DeMuro]

No, no, no. I think of hybrid powertrains as like a blanket. You can take the blanket off and you still have the person sleeping underneath. Do you understand what I'm saying?

[Kenan]

You have tortured so many metaphors today.

[Doug DeMuro]

And you hook that person up to a manual transmission, a different powertrain, and you got yourself an NSX 1990s reboot edition. Akira, if you're listening to me, for God's sake, this is an opportunity.

[Filippo]

I think that it's a good product planning suggestion, but not in the spirit of the question.

[Doug DeMuro]

Okay, okay, fine. What do you have then?

[Filippo]

I think it would be cool for some manufacturers to do like the 80s and 90s cars. And we see this in the Japanese cars that we get submitted and in the European ones had like cool fabrics and like weird funky designs. Like they used like the, like the field multiple. Had color fabric everywhere. Had weird seat designs. I think you could like make a regular normal car like a new, new Grand Highlander, but like make a little funky.

[Doug DeMuro]

Okay.

[Filippo]

Or the. The Jetta John Bon Jovi edition.

[Doug DeMuro]

Okay.

[Filippo]

Something like, just like vaguely.

[Doug DeMuro]

Those are Filippo. That's a Filippo idea. Like take a car and just make it's like slightly different seat, which is.

[Filippo]

Not exactly what the Heritage Edition is.

[Doug DeMuro]

Here's what I'm telling you. No, but they did the old wheels and they did the old paint colors. They did the orange turn signals. They look like an old car. That's the point. Icon. Whereas an old Grand Highlander is not an icon. However, I got an idea.

[Kenan]

Okay.

[Doug DeMuro]

New Ford gt, old Ford GT edition. You take the new Ford gt. Is there a hybrid powertrain in that? Like a blanket? Do you have to remove that. No, you're good. You put a manual transmission in there.

[Filippo]

Oh, sure. Easy.

[Doug DeMuro]

Well, you'd have a packaging issue because there's no room between the seats. But you know what you do? You get rid of the passenger seat.

[Kenan]

Wow. Make it an SP1 rich dude wants to be a alone. You know, I'm really struggling with this because, like I was thinking again in my terms along exotic cars. Fer kind of did this with the 70th anniversary car. So they did a bunch of different weird, cool, like, calls backs to their old heritage, like with just like appearances. But that's not really what we're looking at here. We want something that's even more.

[Filippo]

The Wrangler can do it.

[Doug DeMuro]

The Wrangler does the Wrangler. They do like Willis version, but they can go further.

[Filippo]

They could change the headlights to look more.

[Doug DeMuro]

More like they Jeep. Jeep does it. They do colors. They do like old graphics and stuff like that.

[Kenan]

I really stumped them. You have to think more on this one. I do think the Stronger than the 1980s G Wagon is brilliant. One of the best.

[Doug DeMuro]

It's really good. You could make an argument the another iconic car from that era was the 911. And you could. You could like do like a. Like a fake impact bumper and like old fuchs and.

[Kenan]

Oh, that would be cool.

[Doug DeMuro]

And like a. Like a whale tail that looked like that. But I think Porsche is one of those companies. Porsche does do some heritage stuff, but I think they're one of those companies that is more like Ferrari. Like, like we're. We've always been setting design trends. We're going to keep doing that instead of like go back to the old days.

[Kenan]

I do it. Yeah. I don't know. I'm going too far that I'm stuck in my mind because like the Renault R5 Turbo thing, the electric coming out is like.

[Doug DeMuro]

That's a good. That's one of my good example.

[Kenan]

That's. I love that.

[Doug DeMuro]

Here's one gas engine. Here's one Hyundai Ioniq 5 XL edition. Okay.

[Filippo]

Yeah.

[Doug DeMuro]

They make it look like the Hyundai XL from 1986.

[Filippo]

I guess in this case the G Wagon, stronger in the 80s does look like the old G wagon.

[Kenan]

Yeah.

[Filippo]

But that's by happenstance.

[Doug DeMuro]

No. Pull up an ionic 5. Pull up a Hyundai XL hatchback. Pull up a Hyundai XL hatchback. Type in Hyundai XL hatchback. You can type in pony if you want. That's what it was called in some markets, a hatchback. I don't want to see any sedans.

[Filippo]

No, we certainly don't And I really.

[Doug DeMuro]

Would prefer not to see alloys. Some of those cars had alloys. That's not. Yeah, Give me, give me, give me that. That's the Hyundai XL. That the Ioniq 5 doesn't look that different from this car. Okay.

[Kenan]

Wow, that is a rough one.

[Doug DeMuro]

Yeah. There's no nice one. Even in new. Do you do an Ionic 5 with these wheels with some faded paint, with cloth seats. Right. With. With an old time seat belt chime. You know what I'm saying?

[Filippo]

The seatbelt retracts for no reason.

[Kenan]

Yeah. There is something to having base models and like having steel wheels. There's something to that.

[Doug DeMuro]

Oh, and call it the XL edition.

[Kenan]

And call it the Excel.

[Doug DeMuro]

I think the automakers want to make money though. And I think more base models is not there. It's not really in the card.

[Kenan]

No, but I mean Mercedes is doing it. Right. I mean the story of the 1980s has steel wheels and kind of looks very bassy, but they're charging a ludicrous amount of money for it.

[Doug DeMuro]

Truthfully, this really only works for cars where we are nostalgic about the old versions and we're not nostalgic about that many old versions. No. In a way that you could bring it into the modern era.

[Kenan]

Right. They haven't not. And also the reason it works with the Mercedes is like you said, it's a continued lineage. So you can go back to points along it. So there aren't that many cars that have been. The lineage has been in production for.

[Doug DeMuro]

I mean and think about, think about somewhere. They've tried it. It hasn't worked. The T Bird. Yikes. Right.

[Kenan]

I have a soft spot for it, but yeah, I agree.

[Doug DeMuro]

But. But it doesn't. The, the new Countach.

[Kenan]

New Countach is probably the best example of that.

[Doug DeMuro]

Yeah. It doesn't always work.

[Kenan]

Yeah.

[Doug DeMuro]

Mercedes did it. Well. Okay. Two or three more questions. Okay. Next question from Liberty. Liberty, but it's spelled without any vowels.

[Filippo]

Oh.

[Doug DeMuro]

What is one car manufacturer that makes regular is cars that you most want to see make a halo car. Some examples of this happening was like the Ford GT, the first gen Audi R8. This is a great question because one of my favorite types of cars is normal cars. Companies that make supercars. The Ferrari GT and the Ford GT are both these. And I think that these are the best Porsche makes Macans. Dude, don't look at me like that. He's looking at me.

[Filippo]

Has a long history of making some of the best sports cars.

[Doug DeMuro]

Okay, fine. But these days they make 40 times more 4 cylinder SUV's at least for.

[Filippo]

799 view the courier GT as a halo carbon. It's not a regular car company.

[Doug DeMuro]

The point though is a good one, which is that Porsche, unlike Ferrari, Porsche like knows how to build a car that needs to last for 200,000 miles.

[Filippo]

Ford, I will give you. Ford, I will give you the Ford.

[Doug DeMuro]

GT is a good. The Carrera GT is to an extent is. Is a good example. It's not quite in keeping with the question, but it's clearly not like Lamborghini. Ferrari, Right. Like Porsche is more of a. So the question is who do you want to do it? I'll tell you the answer. Honda.

[Kenan]

Yeah.

[Doug DeMuro]

They make the greatest manual transmissions. They grieve us. The fantastic nsx. The original. Original.

[Filippo]

Then it sucks.

[Doug DeMuro]

Well, okay, yeah, give me that back.

[Filippo]

I was gonna say Toyota because they make. They. They've taken a turn for sportier lately and sportier and off roadingy and I think it would be cool to see what they come up with if they were tasked with a Halo car.

[Kenan]

I am curious.

[Doug DeMuro]

We did see a Halo car from them once and it wasn't all that great.

[Filippo]

I know you hate the lfa. I know you hate the lfa.

[Kenan]

Love it.

[Filippo]

But they've taken very much a turn towards sportier again and off road. Sportier. I think an off road Halo car would be cool too.

[Kenan]

If the LFA had a dual clutch, then how would you revere that car?

[Doug DeMuro]

If the LFA had a stick, it'd be cool. And if it looked good. So if the LFA made two big changes, its complete design and its complete powertrain, I think it looks. I think it would then be a good car. Now maybe then they could have sold them. The correct answer for this is actually Cadillac.

[Filippo]

They have a Halo car. The Escalade iq.

[Doug DeMuro]

No, their Halo car is called the Celestiq. Celestiq.

[Kenan]

Celesti Speak.

[Filippo]

Okay, I haven't a Q.

[Doug DeMuro]

It's not real and it's obviously it's electric. Nobody wants it. What we want to see Cadillac build.

[Filippo]

It looks cool.

[Doug DeMuro]

We want to see Cadillac build the cn. Yeah. Which I tried to buy.

[Filippo]

Yeah.

[Doug DeMuro]

And until they do that we can't take them seriously as an automaker. By the way, Lincoln is also should also do that.

[Filippo]

Can I ask a question? The okay, Halo car we all assume needs to be a sports car.

[Doug DeMuro]

It does.

[Filippo]

What is Mercedes Benz's Halo card right now?

[Doug DeMuro]

G Wagon.

[Filippo]

Yeah, right. That's about. That's what's my point.

[Kenan]

The project one is technically nah But.

[Filippo]

G Wagon is clearly their hill.

[Kenan]

So like, like, so they will tell you.

[Filippo]

Sports car.

[Kenan]

They would tell you.

[Doug DeMuro]

It's how about BMW, by the way? I actually legitimately think that Cadillac and Lincoln are good answers here. At the end of the day, Cadillac outsells Lincoln 3 to 1, and both are outsold by Lexus and Mercedes Benz, BMW, et cetera. If only those brands would, would. Lincoln is trying to lean into this luxury thing. But I think what they're forgetting is that, like, a lot of interest comes to a car company because, because young people and enthusiasts are excited. That's how the Navigator got off the ground in the first place 25 years ago. And what I want to, I want to shake these brands, Cadillac included, and be like, guys, get young people first. And Cadillac figured that out to an extent with the V line. Like, they really went hard with V. And it has paid off. Like, Cadillac has a. When I was a kid, it's hard to explain how elderly and uncool Cadillac was.

[Kenan]

The sts, the standard of the world.

[Doug DeMuro]

Give me a break. The standard of the world in retirement communities all the way from Des Moines to Indianapolis, you know, and, and that is. That is totally different now. It's not. It's still not quite on the level of the Germans, but it is way further. And Lincoln, as wonderful as Lincoln, new Lincolns are, and they are wonderful. They still haven't got a cool image that I think would, Would. Would be successful. And we all know that Ford makes some pretty cool sports cars. You know what you do, you make a Mustang Lincoln or a Bronco Cougar, better known as the Cougar, or a Bronco or a Bronco. Like I already had back to Doug.

[Kenan]

I would love to see BMW do a supercar, but they just. They refuse to.

[Doug DeMuro]

I think one of the reasons, you know, I think about this a lot, and I think one of the reasons BMW refused to make a supercar is because they've tried several times and failed every time they've tried.

[Kenan]

Right. We'll try better.

[Filippo]

I think the other point is, like, do they need that Halo car?

[Doug DeMuro]

Their speakers are already revered.

[Filippo]

Generally, new M3 comes out, everybody's excited.

[Kenan]

No, I agree. But like, they're the only German manufacturer that doesn't do it.

[Doug DeMuro]

It's also weird that they don't try to do it because they tell me.

[Kenan]

They can't figure it out.

[Doug DeMuro]

That space is really lucrative.

[Kenan]

It is.

[Doug DeMuro]

Like BMW could have gone the Porsche route, had a Porsche type car and go. And now be making GT3s that cost 350 grand and are laughably embarrassing to look at. They could be doing that. And they never really.

[Kenan]

No, they just stayed with their little boxy sedans, which works fine. It works. But like I. And that's what I love them for.

[Doug DeMuro]

And instead they make the XM, which.

[Kenan]

By the way, M1. They could have built upon that DNA and done some. They just. They never.

[Doug DeMuro]

It was a failure.

[Filippo]

Yeah. And don't forget BMW M. They trusted the car.

[Kenan]

That was a mistake.

[Doug DeMuro]

Everybody who has ever trusted Lamborghini has regretted it. Except for the Mimran brothers.

[Filippo]

But obviously BMW M has done a custom car. The xm.

[Kenan]

Right, The X.

[Filippo]

Hey, it's the only one they built.

[Kenan]

The BMW Sirius xm.

[Doug DeMuro]

Such trash. Okay, one and a half more questions. Okay, next question from Larry the Car guy. Hey, Doug, what is the best US State for car spotting that isn't California, Florida, Montana, obviously. Yeah, they're all the most registered car crazy up there. If you were an alien that came to America, you'd be like, I gotta go see this Montana place. There's so many cool cars. Yep.

[Kenan]

Miami is pretty good.

[Filippo]

Yeah, Florida.

[Doug DeMuro]

Florida's good. You're never going to say anything old or like. Yeah, it's especially newer stuff. Connecticut in the summer or north of New York, like Westchester, Rye, that whole area north of New York, even Bedford. Like, those areas are pretty nice in the summer. Southwestern Connecticut, new canyon. There's some really crazy stuff that goes through there. If you just drive on the back roads, you'll eventually see some serious cars.

[Kenan]

But all year long you can see them right here in California.

[Doug DeMuro]

But all year long, if you're in the Orange county coast any day of the week, you might see a Chiron, a Koenigsegg, or an F4 40, as we have done. Never seen an F50 though.

[Kenan]

Not yet.

[Doug DeMuro]

Okay, this is the last question and it's going to really rankle. Filippo.

[Filippo]

Oh, no.

[Doug DeMuro]

From Eden07 rank all generations of the Mustang. Oh, I've been thinking about this one. I've been thinking about.

[Kenan]

This is what you end with. This is like ending with the uphill marathon. This.

[Filippo]

Okay, let's go through the generations.

[Doug DeMuro]

I'm going to go. I'm going to. I'm going to make this easy for you. I'm going to go through the generations. There have been seven.

[Filippo]

Yeah.

[Doug DeMuro]

Okay. The first generation apparently was. Was all the way through 1974. So it includes like the. When they got big in the late six sixties and early seventies. Like, you know what I'm talking about. Like this car.

[Kenan]

Yep.

[Doug DeMuro]

Okay. That's included in the first gen. So the second gen was the. The second gen was the Mustang 2. Okay. So are you writing these down?

[Filippo]

Yeah.

[Doug DeMuro]

The second gen was the Mustang II. You know the Mustang 2?

[Filippo]

I do.

[Doug DeMuro]

Then the fox body.

[Kenan]

Yep.

[Doug DeMuro]

Then the SN95, which I. Which I'm just going to tell you right now. The controversy will begin when we talk about the SN95. Yeah.

[Kenan]

Because are we splitting that with the new edge, or is that all?

[Doug DeMuro]

Yes, we are. It's one generation, so it's going to be. It's going to be okay. Then the fifth gen, which came out in 05.

[Filippo]

What was the fifth gen called? I can't remember.

[Doug DeMuro]

It was called S197. Then this gen, which came out in 15, the S550. And then the new body.

[Filippo]

What is the new body called?

[Doug DeMuro]

S650 somehow.

[Kenan]

All right, I'll start.

[Doug DeMuro]

First gen. Yeah.

[Kenan]

Yeah.

[Doug DeMuro]

I.

[Kenan]

It's an icon.

[Doug DeMuro]

First gen's first.

[Kenan]

It transformed American cars. Like, it was one of the greatest names ever given a new car. It is, without question.

[Doug DeMuro]

Yeah, I think that's true. Now the commoners are going to argue with us because they argued with C2 being the first Corvette, even though we unanimously agreed on it instantly. I think the commenters in a lot of cases are a little bit too young to really specifically on Instagram are a little bit too young to really understand the impact the C2 Corvette had on automotive design globally and on the Mustang had on the car. But the Mustang, the first gen, we all also.

[Filippo]

You ask any person that our age, hey, what do you wish your first car was? The Mustang that their elderly neighbor, like, everybody wants that early.

[Doug DeMuro]

That's right. Like what? Yeah. What do you dream of? Right. Right.

[Filippo]

Pretty be. Whatever we're calling first generation early. First gen.

[Doug DeMuro]

Even the later ones, though, became very. It's funny. It evolved into an also very cool car.

[Filippo]

Yeah.

[Kenan]

Then after that, I'm gonna say S550.

[Doug DeMuro]

Okay. That's reasonable. That was an amazing car.

[Kenan]

It's a really good car. The 5O is great. The GT350, 350R are some of the best American cars I've ever driven with you.

[Doug DeMuro]

You are okay, I'm gonna say. I'm gonna say seven second. The fifth gen, the S197, the 05. It's hard to explain. It's hard to explain what impact the 05 Mustang had. I was a kid then I was 17 and 05, and the Mustang had languished like I grew up not really caring that much about Mustangs because it had been a crappy car for my entire life, honestly. And then the 05 came out. They went to the retro styling. They put a big V6 in. They put a great V8 in even. It was obviously the S550 and 650 have built upon that as better cars. But the S197 changed the Mustang's look forever. It went back to the retro, and the next two gens have basically kept that look, just modernizing it. And it improved the quality, it improved the desirability. The car totally changed. And Filippo has taken my statement here and has put the S197 next on his list.

[Kenan]

I would put it next as well.

[Doug DeMuro]

I will put the S550 third on my list.

[Filippo]

And then have we all agreed on the Fox body after it?

[Doug DeMuro]

Nope. I want to talk about the new Edge for a second.

[Kenan]

I knew this was coming. Okay, here we go.

[Doug DeMuro]

The new Edge gave us the Termy Cobra, which, if I was ranking the Mustangs, would be top three.

[Kenan]

Yep.

[Doug DeMuro]

The Termy Cobra, if I was ranking individual Mustangs, would be top three.

[Kenan]

Yep. I don't. Yeah.

[Filippo]

Let's go back to what you said literally a moment ago. The Mustang had languished till the S197 came out. It had languished. We didn't care about it at all. All right, what Mustang was that? The new Edge.

[Kenan]

Well, but to his point, it's like the Diablo where we place that if you were talking SE30, it would be in the.

[Doug DeMuro]

The top.

[Filippo]

If, if. If it had been better as a generation, it wouldn't have linguished to the point that ch redesigning it would have been the second best Mustang ever.

[Doug DeMuro]

That's a good point. But. But the Termy Cobra, I think at least once a week about buying a turmy Cobra. And I don't think anymore about buying any cars.

[Filippo]

No. Who doesn't?

[Doug DeMuro]

And occasionally I'll see a termy Cobra and be like, God, if I had one of. If only I had one. No, you never see them, especially in California. Turi Cobra. And it had the Cobra R. Yeah.

[Kenan]

Oh, love the Cobra.

[Doug DeMuro]

It had the cool Mach 1, the blue Mach 1.

[Filippo]

I'm familiar.

[Doug DeMuro]

It had the bad Cobra that they lied about the power. Power. So there's some. Some fun going on. It had the original 94 to 98 body cobra, which was cool with the silver five spokes.

[Filippo]

So really just like SVT. Who. Who doesn't.

[Doug DeMuro]

Yeah. The base cars were pretty bad I.

[Filippo]

You're putting us on any 5 4th. I am absolutely not doing.

[Doug DeMuro]

No, no I'm not doing that. I'm just having a conversation. The F. Joe Rogan. I'm just asking questions.

[Filippo]

Canon. What are you forth.

[Doug DeMuro]

By the way last is Mustang too. We all agree last.

[Kenan]

Absolutely.

[Filippo]

I'm going to put the SN 95 second last.

[Doug DeMuro]

By the way not putting the new body on is starting to get a little sketchy here.

[Filippo]

I'm going to put the S560 second last.

[Kenan]

Oh my God.

[Filippo]

S650. S650 sorry. S670.

[Doug DeMuro]

It's a great car.

[Filippo]

It's really, really not better than an S550 in any way. And it looks worse and it's not better.

[Doug DeMuro]

It's vast. The, the, the. The. The. The dark horse has like 900 agrees.

[Filippo]

With me in the fact that it's incredibly undesirable.

[Doug DeMuro]

It's not that it's undesirable. I have a long rant about this that I've never told on the pod but I just think coupes two door cars in general are just have just kind of lost appear appeal and I don't think the Mustang is. The Camaro's gone. I mean everybody's like oh the Mustang's slow selling slowly. Yeah, the Camaro is selling even slower. 00 like it isn't it it, it's. It's not fault of the Mustang that the market has changed what it wants and I think it's still a really good car. It's definitely not as good as the.

[Kenan]

Previous I got to say. Fl. You ever been in a fox body?

[Filippo]

No I have not dude.

[Doug DeMuro]

I've been in a Fox body. You. You know what it is? Cheap power.

[Filippo]

Big cheap I fox body. My. My father in law has a brilliant.

[Kenan]

You think you'd rather have that?

[Filippo]

Your.

[Doug DeMuro]

Your father in law had a convertible Fox body. He still five he does now.

[Filippo]

No way.

[Doug DeMuro]

Why didn't you know this shout out to Craig it was a stick. It's a stick.

[Filippo]

It's a stick convertible.

[Doug DeMuro]

It's a stick. Five zero late or early?

[Filippo]

I'm trying. There's a lot of modifications.

[Doug DeMuro]

No way.

[Filippo]

Yeah. Wow. So he starts at the moment it's having some issues. The S550 is so good that it makes the follow up being so disappointing. It pushes the follow up down even though it's not a bad pushes it.

[Kenan]

Down to the Mustang tube.

[Filippo]

Well above the Mustang tube. But I'm saying.

[Doug DeMuro]

You think the new edge is worse than the new body Come on, Filippo.

[Filippo]

As a car, yes. But in the broader scale.

[Doug DeMuro]

No. I'm not going to let you get away with it. Switch the new body on the SN95.

[Filippo]

Nope.

[Doug DeMuro]

You don't like the SN95? I'm the only SN95 Defender sitting.

[Filippo]

I like the US Mustang less.

[Doug DeMuro]

Oh, that's ins. That's a.

[Filippo]

That's, all things considered, the worst take.

[Doug DeMuro]

I've ever heard in my entire life. So I got first gen, I got 05, I got S550. My list is looking great so far.

[Filippo]

What's next?

[Doug DeMuro]

Now the Internet wants me to say Fox body next. Yeah. And I'm gonna.

[Filippo]

Great. And then what?

[Doug DeMuro]

And then the new car. And so after all that about the.

[Filippo]

About the Cobra, you're putting it second to last.

[Doug DeMuro]

It's indefensible. That car is indefensible. I love. And by the way, by the way, something else I want to say about the new Edge. 94 to 98 was the beginning of the SN95.

[Filippo]

Yeah.

[Doug DeMuro]

It wasn't edgy. No. The new Edge came out in 99.

[Filippo]

Barely edgy.

[Doug DeMuro]

In retrospect, the new Edge was edgy.

[Kenan]

It did. It got the tail lights in particular.

[Doug DeMuro]

If the new Edge had come out initially, I think we'd be having different conversations here. I think the 94 to 98 sullied the SN95 so greatly. That is a nice looking car. You know what? Raise it on my list.

[Kenan]

Yeah.

[Filippo]

You could agree that S650 is sucking last.

[Doug DeMuro]

No.

[Filippo]

Well, no. You want Fox body.

[Doug DeMuro]

I can't. I can't do that to the Fox body. It just meant so much to so many people. Bruce Springsteen wouldn't exist without the Fox body Mustang.

[Filippo]

I don't think it's a great car, but it's iconic.

[Doug DeMuro]

You simply listened to Bruce Springsteen in your fox body in 1987. I mean, it's just what you did. There wasn't. There wasn't a discussion about it. It's just how it went. Look at those foxes.

[Filippo]

That 92 red one is.

[Doug DeMuro]

Man. Okay, okay, that's my list. So My list is first gen, 197, 550 Fox, 650, SN95 Mustang.

[Filippo]

All right, finish it off, Kenan.

[Doug DeMuro]

Finish it up.

[Kenan]

All right, I think I'm going to put. After the S192, I'm going to put S197. S197. I'm going to put the. It's hard because I like a lot of versions of the SN95 more than I do the Fox body.

[Filippo]

So I think I sn 95.

[Doug DeMuro]

You want the Fox had the balls to do what I wanted to do.

[Kenan]

Yeah.

[Doug DeMuro]

And then the new one. You guys are nuts.

[Kenan]

I know. The new one is so good and I just wish there was some place that the problem is these ones are so good in the middle. It's really.

[Doug DeMuro]

This was a lot harder than the Range Rover thing, which was frankly okay.

[Kenan]

Because these are actually good cars.

[Doug DeMuro]

There's some of them are good cars, not all.

[Filippo]

I will say the S650 is not a bad car. I'm just disappointed by the lack of improvement.

[Doug DeMuro]

First Mustang ever was the 94 to 98 six cylinder.

[Kenan]

Oh yeah.

[Doug DeMuro]

Pull up an SN94.

[Filippo]

Or according to Canon, the the fourth to last.

[Kenan]

No totality. Philippe.

[Doug DeMuro]

Most of these are new edge. We don't even really sell. Go to lowest price because that's where it would be.

[Kenan]

That's where it'll be.

[Filippo]

Nope.

[Doug DeMuro]

Even these. I actually didn't mind the GTS. We've never hosted a V6.

[Filippo]

No, we have not.

[Doug DeMuro]

Well, there you go.

[Filippo]

I love that. I love seeing old listings. The 1995 Ford Mustang GT from 2020 we referred to as really nice.

[Kenan]

Yeah, we were a little.

[Doug DeMuro]

Look at that. Look at that 94 GT. To be honest though, for the money in the upper right there.

[Filippo]

Yep.

[Doug DeMuro]

6,200 bucks for a one owner manual.

[Filippo]

V8 converter or six spoke, depending how you look.

[Kenan]

I wrote this one.

[Doug DeMuro]

You can have more fun than this for 6200 bucks. No, I don't think you can. Tough interior, though. Then again, they put it in the Panos Esperante. Okay, that's our pod for this week. Thank you for the questions. We'll be back to normal pod next week doing our normal segment segments and you can ask us questions carsandbids.com and then click on the community tab. This was not our best podcast ever.

[Filippo]

Do you agree?

[Doug DeMuro]

It was up there. Okay. Goodbye, everyone.

[Kenan]

Goodbye.