Porsche Kills the 718! China Crushes Tesla! Doug on BMW’s Ugly Redemption Arc! THIS CAR POD! EP62

Summary

Podcast Summary: THIS CAR POD! with Doug DeMuro & Friends!

Episode: Porsche Kills the 718! China Crushes Tesla! Doug on BMW’s Ugly Redemption Arc!
Release Date: May 30, 2025

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1. Nissan's New GTR Concept and Financial Concerns

The episode kicks off with a discussion about Nissan's rumored next-generation GTR. Doug DeMuro expresses skepticism about the significance of this news, highlighting Nissan's financial struggles.

• Doug DeMuro [00:09]: "I don't find this to be a big news story because they haven't announced the car, they haven't told us what it's going to be, et cetera."
• Filippo [01:06]: "They need $700 million and so what can you do? You sell that because you got to employ some people to work on a gtr."

The conversation touches on Nissan's financial priorities, questioning why resources are being allocated to developing a new GTR amidst broader financial issues.

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2. Volkswagen Shifts EV Naming Strategy

The hosts delve into Volkswagen's decision to abandon the ID naming convention for their electric vehicles, opting instead for more traditional names.

• Kenneth [02:18]: "Volkswagen announced this week that they are going to stop using the ID naming convention for their electric cars."
• Filippo [04:16]: "What else could they do? Haboob. What about Haboob?"

They discuss the challenges automakers face in naming EVs and speculate on potential new names, emphasizing the shift back to conventional naming structures.

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3. Porsche's End of the 718 Boxster and Cayman

A significant portion of the episode focuses on Porsche's decision to end production of the 718 Boxster and Cayman models, with implications for their EV future.

• Kenneth [04:48]: "We've confirmed that they're going to end production later this year in October. This year will be the end of production for the 718 model line."
• Doug DeMuro [09:02]: "It's sad from an enthusiast perspective that a gas sports car is replaced by an EV1."

The hosts express disappointment over the gap in Porsche's lineup due to the delayed release of their EV successor, raising concerns about the brand's direction and market demand for EVs.

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4. BYD Surpasses Tesla in European EV Sales

A major highlight is BYD's achievement in surpassing Tesla in European electric vehicle sales, signaling a shift in the EV market dynamics.

• Kenneth [10:25]: "BYD for the first time has outsold Tesla across Europe."
• Filippo [13:25]: "Yes, undeniably."

They analyze factors contributing to BYD's success, including competitive pricing, a diverse EV lineup, and Tesla's declining sales due to product age and lack of new models tailored to the European market.

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5. Impact of US EV Tax Credit Changes

The conversation shifts to the potential removal of EV tax credits in the US and its implications for EV adoption and market growth.

• Doug DeMuro [16:31]: "If you could, what would you do?"
• Kenneth [17:09]: "A large part of EV adoption was the tax credit of just $7,500."

The hosts debate how the elimination of these incentives could slow EV sales, affect consumer purchasing decisions, and influence American automakers' investment in electric technologies.

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6. General Motors' Investment in V8 Engines

GM's recent investment of $888 million in updating a V8 engine factory near Buffalo, NY, is examined, highlighting the continued relevance of V8 engines in the modern automotive landscape.

• Kenneth [20:36]: "GM is still investing in the next generation V8."
• Doug DeMuro [21:09]: "Trump can save V8."

They discuss whether this investment is a sign of GM's commitment to traditional powertrains amidst the EV revolution and speculate on the motivations behind choosing Buffalo for this expansion.

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7. Stellantis Appoints New CEO

The episode covers Stellantis' announcement of Antonio Filosa as their new CEO, following mixed reactions from the market.

• Filippo [22:32]: "He looks thrilled."
• Doug DeMuro [23:16]: "They didn't do anything to make their CEOs popular."

The hosts reflect on Filosa's background and potential impact on Stellantis, noting dealer dissatisfaction and the challenges of revitalizing a major automotive conglomerate.

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8. BMW M2 CS: A New Powerhouse

A segment is dedicated to the new BMW M2 CS, highlighting its impressive specifications and the excitement it brings to enthusiasts, despite the lack of a manual transmission.

• Filippo [25:00]: "It's 523 horsepower... going to be very tail happy and probably a handful to drive."
• Doug DeMuro [26:20]: "It's a shame that it's no stick though."

The discussion praises the M2 CS's performance enhancements and weight reductions, while lamenting the absence of a manual gearbox, which is a valued feature among driving purists.

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9. Personal Stories and Track Experiences

Beyond news, the hosts share personal anecdotes about track driving experiences, emphasizing the importance of practical driving skills and safety.

• Kenneth [36:33]: "I rewatched the video like the final edited video this morning. I want to do two speed takeaways."
• Filippo [38:13]: "Track driving teaches you the dynamics of a car."

These stories add a relatable and engaging element to the podcast, illustrating the hosts' passion for driving and continuous learning.

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10. Market Report Highlights

The episode features a detailed market report discussing unique vehicles sold on Cars and Bids, including a GMC Top Kick and the rarity of Porsche tractors.

• Doug DeMuro [49:08]: "We sold a GMC Top Kick for only $58,000."
• Filippo [54:07]: "Porsche tractors are still really hot."

The hosts analyze unconventional sales, the appeal of utility vehicles, and the niche market for vintage and unique automotive memorabilia.

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11. Listener Questions and Open Discussions

In the final segments, the hosts address listener questions covering topics from supercar shooting brake designs to the lack of Cadillac wagon models.

• Doug DeMuro [65:49]: "Any supercar."
• Filippo [66:25]: "Well, I mean the Ferrari DOD seems like a good."

They provide thoughtful insights and personal opinions, fostering an interactive and informative environment for listeners.

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Notable Quotes:

• Doug DeMuro [00:09]: "I don't find this to be a big news story because they haven't announced the car, they haven't told us what it's going to be, et cetera."
• Filippo [04:16]: "What else could they do? Haboob. What about Haboob?"
• Kenneth [10:25]: "BYD for the first time has outsold Tesla across Europe."
• Doug DeMuro [16:31]: "If you could, what would you do?"
• Filippo [25:00]: "It's 523 horsepower... going to be very tail happy and probably a handful to drive."
• Doug DeMuro [49:08]: "We sold a GMC Top Kick for only $58,000."
• Filippo [54:07]: "Porsche tractors are still really hot."

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Conclusion:

This episode of THIS CAR POD! with Doug DeMuro & Friends! offers a comprehensive overview of current automotive trends, market shifts, and personal engagements with cars. From Nissan's uncertain direction to BYD's European dominance over Tesla, and BMW's latest performance upgrades, the hosts provide insightful analysis backed by engaging discussions and personal experiences. Enthusiasts will find valuable takeaways on the evolving car landscape, while newcomers gain a thorough understanding of the key issues shaping the automotive world in 2025.

Transcript

[Doug DeMuro]

Hello and welcome to this car pod.

[Kenneth]

I'm Kenneth. I'm Filippo.

[Doug DeMuro]

And there's a lot to talk about, starting with that. Which is apparently some sort of concept car intended to signify the new Nissan gtr. Nissan announced recently that they have people working on the next generation gtr. I don't find this to be a big news story because they haven't announced the car, they haven't told us what it's going to be, et cetera. But I do find the interesting part to be why does Nissan have people working on the new GT R? Considering everything they've told us about their finances generally, some would say they might.

[Filippo]

Have bigger fish to fry at the moment.

[Kenneth]

Yeah. Like any of their other cars.

[Doug DeMuro]

Although it's no bigger fish than Godzilla, I would argue.

[Filippo]

Oh, well, it's not a fish, but they.

[Doug DeMuro]

I think he swims. Doesn't he swim?

[Filippo]

You swim, you're not a fish.

[Kenneth]

Good.

[Doug DeMuro]

That's true.

[Filippo]

Got him. Got him.

[Doug DeMuro]

Didn't Nissan this week announced that they were thinking about selling their headquarters or something?

[Kenneth]

Yeah, well, they need $700 million and so what can you do? You sell that because you got to employ some people to work on a gtr. We knew that the new guy running Nissan is a car enthusiast. I can understand wanting like a Halo car. The GTR has helped their brand massively. You know, hopefully they have like a person, like an internal. That'd be fine. They could afford.

[Doug DeMuro]

An intern is making good cars and not making all the mistakes they made over the last 20 years.

[Filippo]

Yeah, yeah.

[Doug DeMuro]

Some would say, you know what they ought to do? Instead of developing a new gtr, they should create a time machine and they should go back 20 years and make a lot of different decisions.

[Kenneth]

They don't have enough employees or money for that. Too much manufacturing.

[Doug DeMuro]

Maybe if they sell their headquarters. So anyway, new gtr. I'm glad to hear it's coming. Presumably it's going to be a plug in hybrid. I have no.

[Kenneth]

Is it coming?

[Doug DeMuro]

I don't.

[Filippo]

I mean. Yeah. This is more vaporware than. I mean.

[Kenneth]

Yeah.

[Filippo]

I don't know. Who knows?

[Doug DeMuro]

The great irony is that the new Nissan Pathfinder is a good car. That is the great irony.

[Kenneth]

Yeah.

[Doug DeMuro]

Okay, fine. Let's move on to the next news story, which is Volks. Volkswagen.

[Kenneth]

Yeah. So Volkswagen announced this week that they are going to stop using the ID naming convention for their electric cars. Canon, of course, is familiar with the ID 4. The ID buzz. ID 3. 2. Maybe the 1. No, just the 3 and 2 in Europe.

[Filippo]

You lost me there.

[Kenneth]

Where it's the number signified, the size. Ish. There's supposed to be an ID7 sedan that never existed. They're going to go to actual names. Lemon, as shown on the screen, will probably not be one of their actual names. It will probably be Wins, like their other cars are. But it's yet another story in the big chain of stories of automakers not knowing how to name EVs, and eventually they just end up with their normal naming structure. Just go for just fine.

[Filippo]

Just fine.

[Kenneth]

Goodbye. I'd be Buzz.

[Doug DeMuro]

Did you know that Golf referred to the Gulf Stream?

[Filippo]

Oh, I see.

[Doug DeMuro]

I'm not making that up.

[Kenneth]

Interesting facade is a large wind that goes over Europe or something like that.

[Filippo]

The Twereg is a wind.

[Doug DeMuro]

Yeah.

[Kenneth]

No. If it all fell apart, it fell apart.

[Doug DeMuro]

Like CC isn't a wind. You know what I'm saying?

[Filippo]

Right. And the Beetle wasn't either. So, like, there's some wind in there.

[Doug DeMuro]

Beetle. But. But they called the New Beetle. But. Yeah, that's true. They did. They called it New one the Beetle, but Passat or Golf referred to the Gulf Stream, even though they spelled it differently. I swear to God that's true. And then Gulf Harlequin was the Gulf Stream, but then it was Harlequin because it had different colors.

[Kenneth]

Are you aware of how the name Tiguan, which is their small SUV to be.

[Doug DeMuro]

It is the. It is the word tiger and the German word for iguana, which is leguan, combined together.

[Kenneth]

Yes. Well done.

[Doug DeMuro]

Enthusiast. I'm a Tiguan enthusiast. The early Stick Tiguans was a big. I was a big fan.

[Kenneth]

I. I just hate the Tiguan L, which is the only one sold in the US Real shame.

[Doug DeMuro]

All right, so Volkswagen is going to name their cars. Have they announced. Are they going to rename the current cars?

[Kenneth]

They haven't said. This is like one. A single report where somebody said, we're gonna stop doing this. It's unclear if it's for the next generation right now. Whatever.

[Doug DeMuro]

If you could name the ID4, what would you call it?

[Kenneth]

The E. Taos.

[Doug DeMuro]

The E. Taos, but it's a totally different car.

[Kenneth]

Yeah.

[Filippo]

That also just rolls right off the tongue.

[Kenneth]

A little joke about. There are other.

[Filippo]

I. I know, I know.

[Doug DeMuro]

Names of.

[Kenneth]

Thank you.

[Doug DeMuro]

Oh, Shirako Bora Mistral is already taken. Chinook cams. And those are taken. What else could they do? Haboob. What about Haboob?

[Kenneth]

That would be a great name for a truck.

[Doug DeMuro]

Okay. For a truck only. All right, give us the next one you haboob.

[Kenneth]

Oh, all right. So we've known for a while that the 718 Boxster and Cayman were leaving, departing this world soon. Yes, they've confirmed that they're going to end production later this year in October. This year will be the end of production for the 718 model line. Unfortunately their EV replacement was supposed to come out in 2026. It is now delayed at least a year. They've said a year, but let's be honest to 2027. So that will leave a large gap in Porsche's lineup where they will not have any sub911 sports car crazy for at least a year. And it's also unclear how much demand that'll be for the EV1 once it comes out. So there might may be other changes here.

[Filippo]

So is it. Is there a regulation change that means they absolutely have to stop producing cars or could they just. Is the tooling worn out and they can't produce anymore? Could they just extend it for, I don't know, another year until cover the gap?

[Kenneth]

Tough position. I would not be shocked if it's not compliant with Euro 8 wherever the next set of euro emission regulations are.

[Doug DeMuro]

Some regulatory stuff. Although keep in mind that canceling 718production also also frees up capacity in Zufenhausen so they can make more 911s which probably have higher profit because Boxsters are still made there in that same factory. I mean I remember taking that factory tour and there'd be a Boxer on the line and the 911 on the line next and it was like wow.

[Kenneth]

Yeah. And also with tariffs in the us which is a large market for them where they might still want to make them even if they can't sell them in Europe. $80,000 car becomes a hundred thousand dollar car just from the tariffs alone. I think they've. That maybe has meant their price out of that market. Why not end production weight and invest in their.

[Filippo]

Interesting. That's a good point.

[Doug DeMuro]

I will also know China is paying the tariff. I don't know.

[Kenneth]

You don't understand the tariff the car is made in. It doesn't matter.

[Doug DeMuro]

I was told that China would pay.

[Kenneth]

Right. One quick note, because we're talking about European emissions regulations. There's about to be a bunch of interesting stuff that results. There was a new story that we didn't include because I forgot about it until right now, that The Lotus Mira V6 may not be compliant with the next round of emissions regulations in Europe. And so they may need to change to a different engine. There's going to be a lot of this where slightly older engines just can't meet European requirements anymore. And so your automakers have to adapt, roll out additional different engines. Lotus, for what's worth is Talking about a V8 from Mercedes there. But it's going to be interesting. It's like over the next couple of years you'll see more and more news stories about, especially for European cars, what engines are available because they only want to invest in engines that work for all of their markets.

[Filippo]

I'm here for the Amira V8 that.

[Doug DeMuro]

Ends up trickling down and having an effect in the US market. You know the entire reason, you know, the Audi R8 is beloved for its beginning of the whole trend of making daytime running lights cool. But do you know why we have daytime running lights in all of our cars? Do you know why? Canada. Canada mandates it, they require it. And the companies were like, you know what, if Canada is going to mandate it, we'll just do it in the US too. And then it's like, well if we're going to do it, we might as well make it cool. And that's why we have. It's because of Canada that Canada forced daytime running lights on us and probably saved a lot of lives, honestly.

[Kenneth]

Probably, yeah. Same reason why if you buy a European car, it's more likely to have rear or front fog lights. Cuz rear fog lights are mandatory. Although usually in the US they put a reverse light there.

[Filippo]

Yeah, usually. It depends. Well, the Canadians, I didn't know that, sorry, I know it's an inconvenience for you there, but we're going to do this and save some lives there. So put some cars.

[Doug DeMuro]

Okay, more to come on the topic of this story. Pretty wild.

[Kenneth]

I mean, okay, here, here. Ken and I were talking about this before the podcast started. There has not been exactly a ton of love for non special versions of the Boxster and Cayman from the 718 generation. It's a four cylinder, it's not a flat six. The base engine, it's been around for coming on a decade now, close to it. They've done what they could with the platform. We all knew it was ending the Spider RS, the Cam GT4S and we knew it was going to be that.

[Doug DeMuro]

And that's fine. Yeah. But nonetheless it's still a gas powered mid engine car and I have and based on what I'm seeing with auction results for 981s and 982s, I have a suspicion that the market, if it doesn't appreciate it that much today will appreciate it. Because you know what's better than a turbo flat four? You know what's worse than a turbo flat four? An ev. Like, at the end of the day. Yeah. It's not the flat six that it used to be.

[Filippo]

Oh.

[Doug DeMuro]

It's a turbo flat four. We thought the world was ending when they came out with a turbo flat four for this car ten years ago. Well, now they're going to replace it with an evidence.

[Kenneth]

Yeah, I have that.

[Doug DeMuro]

It's crazy. And it's crazy that they're having this gap. There won't be an entry level Porsche sports car. Porsche strays further and further from what we know as Porsche. Right. There's multiple lines of SUVs, and this car was such an enthusiast hit.

[Kenneth]

I legitimately do think that tariffs are having an impact on those because they can't sell them. They won't be able to sell them once they import them. There was a big article today about how Porsche was already in a little bit of a downturn, primarily because it sailed in China, although sales in the US have been really strong. And now tariffs have. Are turning that into a real crisis. I. What you going to do?

[Doug DeMuro]

Well, yeah. No, what are you going to do is right. And the tariff thing is a component and obviously the car is old. Like you said. It's still sad. It's sad from an enthusiast perspective that a gas sports car is replaced by an EV1. It's even sadder when a gas sports car is not replaced.

[Kenneth]

I do wonder what will happen to 718 values. They've gone down a fair amount, but they will flat out. And it'll also be interesting to see they've kind of walked back. The whole Macan was going to go away at the end of this year thing. They'll keep selling the Macan alongside it. Clearly they're not going to produce these, but it does make you wonder, like, are they going to try to find a way to produce something else? I doubt it. They're not going to invest in a whole new platform if they're stopping production.

[Doug DeMuro]

It's over.

[Kenneth]

It's over.

[Doug DeMuro]

This is the end.

[Kenneth]

So you're right, this is it.

[Doug DeMuro]

Witnessing the end right here. That Spider RS was the end. And they never did do a stick. They never did give us what we wanted. Okay, give us our next news story, which is going to be amazing. Ooh, some sort of electric French car, Chinese car.

[Kenneth]

This is a byd, which is a Chinese, primarily EV manufacturer at this point. Build your dreams.

[Filippo]

Build your dreams.

[Kenneth]

If you will. There's a couple of news stories here. One is that in April BYD outsold Tesla in Europe. There's two big news stories related to that. One is EV sales in Europe up. Tesla sales in Europe down 50% year over year.

[Doug DeMuro]

I want to really underscore that because I know what you're going to say the other big news story is, but that is the big news story. European EV sales are rising and Tesla sales are cratering in Europe.

[Kenneth]

Yeah, yeah. So BYD for the first time has outsold Tesla across Europe. Notable because it's a Chinese manufacturer that's showing really consistently stronger sales. And also Tesla has absolutely lost the European market. Some of that is product age. Right. The Model Y just had a refresh, but it's kind of a mixed bag. The Model 3 had a refresh a year ago, but like not a ton of new products, especially smaller products with the European market. Especially as EVs gain more traction in Southern Europe where people like slightly smaller cars. Tesla does not have any entrance in the sub regular sedan space.

[Doug DeMuro]

And BYD does. Yeah, these things. What are these?

[Kenneth]

These things and others, they have cars across the entire lineup. So partially it's that and partially that Elon Musk's role in the US government has really impacted his reputation across Europe.

[Doug DeMuro]

The fact that BYD is so heavily subsidized by the Chinese government doesn't have the, the European, the notoriously xen of automotively xenophobic Europeans. Getting a little worried. They're cool with that. They're like, bring up the Chinese.

[Kenneth]

Hey, weird, strange bedfellows exist for sure. I do think a lot of it is also around price. Fundamentally, the way you expand the European EV market is you've kind of capped out in the richer Scandinavian countries where there's been a huge EV adoption over the last decade. Where do you go? You go to Italy, Spain, France, wherever and Eastern Europe. There's not the same money. You need lower priced products. Tesla doesn't have that. BYD does.

[Doug DeMuro]

Do you think, and I'm just going to throw this out there, but do you think there's a possibility that the names of the cars are also playing a role? The vehicle shown there is called the Dolphin Surf. Okay. And then there's also a car called the Sea Lion. Okay. Actually it's called the Sea lion seven. I don't know if they were one through six. And then there's also a car called the Dolphin that's different from the Surf. And then there's also a car called the Seal. Now Unlike in reality, where the seals and the sea lions look basically the same and only people who are intelligent can tell them apart. In BYD's lineup, the Seal is a sedan and the Sea lion is an suv. Do you think that this is playing a big role in BYD's European success?

[Kenneth]

Yes, undeniably. Thank you for asking that important question. The Tang and the Auto and the Han also doing well.

[Doug DeMuro]

I don't care about those cars. I only care about the sea lion, the Seal, and the Dolphin 7. Or wait, whatever it was.

[Filippo]

I mean, I was a big Dolphin six.

[Kenneth]

Regardless, big new story. Sales are up. Tesla plummeting. Byd, upstart automaker that's entering the European market. Upstart is a positive way to frame that. Entering the European market, starting to do better and better and better.

[Doug DeMuro]

Yeah, that's a huge deal. The fact that Tesla's continuing to see this decline is a huge deal. And you know what I was realizing the other day? It used to be that if you criticize Tesla anywhere, you would get like, mobbed with crazy people who hated you. That has really changed. A lot of the people who used to mobile aren't Tesla shills anymore. And a lot of the people who mobbed were also obsessed with the stock price, which has been basically flat for like five years. And so a lot of those people have gotten out. And there is. There is not the obsessive, like, cult of Tesla that there once was. Interestingly, no. They're still out there, but it's not like it used to be. Okay, byd, kill it with the dolphin surf. I've been using delete me for years now. And let me tell you, I'm still just as grateful for it today as I was the day I signed up. The first time I saw my personal info all over the Internet, it was honestly kind of alarming. My full name, old phone number, old addresses, even info about my family. It was just sitting there, publicly accessible. And it wasn't just on one site, it was on dozens. I had no idea that kind of data was floating around, let alone how easy it was for anyone to get their hands on it. And listen. As someone who's pretty visible online, I've had to deal with some pretty weird stuff. Random emails, strange messages, people digging a little too deep. That's why privacy is something I take seriously. And delete me has become a core part of how protect myself and my family. That's why I always recommend deleteme. It's been one of the best decisions I've made when it comes to my online safety and peace of mind. Deleteme is a subscription service that removes your personal information from hundreds of data broker sites. And here's what I love. You don't have to do anything complicated. You give them your info once what you want removed and then they go to work. Every few months they send me a personalized report showing exactly what they found and what they've removed. I've gotten emails like, we've found your name, phone number and address on 38 sites and we removed it. It's honestly kind of incredible. And they don't stop. This is an ongoing thing. Deleteme keeps monitoring and removing your info so it doesn't just come right back. Over the years, I've watched the amount of my data online shrink more and more. It's like digital spring cleaning, but someone else is doing all the work. Take control of your data and keep your private life private by signing up for Deleteme now with a special discount for our listeners today. Get 20% off your DeleteMe plan when you go to JoinDeleteMe.com Demuro and use promo code demuro at checkout. The only way to get 20% off is go to JoinDeleteMe.com Demuro and enter code DEMURO at checkout. That's JoinDeleteMe.com Demuro Codemuro. Give us our next news story.

[Kenneth]

Indeed.

[Doug DeMuro]

Ah, yeah. Donald Trump in a Tesla. Is this something I'm talking about? All right, here's the deal. Filippo, you know about this. I don't think you know about this, but I'm going to teach you.

[Kenneth]

Do you think I don't know about EV news? Who do you think I am?

[Doug DeMuro]

President. The President and the Congress. That fellow, his name is Mike Johnson. Somehow they got like this guy that it's like very generic. He there. They're passing this bill that's going to have taxed implications for the US I haven't really paid that much attention but God, I hope my accountant. But anyway, one of the implications, one of the implications is that they're getting rid of the EV tax credit. Have you seen this?

[Kenneth]

Well, Republicans have hated it forever.

[Doug DeMuro]

Yeah. Do you know that they're going to now have a tax on hybrid car owners like me?

[Kenneth]

Will it actually impact sequoias? I thought it was just plug ins.

[Doug DeMuro]

It said it's like $100 for hybrids and 250 for EVs. Sequoia. I got two hybrids, dude. I got a E class station wagon too.

[Kenneth]

I got a mild hybrid, 48 volt battery.

[Doug DeMuro]

That's what I would argue. I hope that Mike Johnson distinguishes between mild hybrids like mine and Libs and Priuses. I'm terrified. Anyway, if this gets rid of the EV tax credit, that's a huge deal.

[Kenneth]

Yeah. I think we've collectively all known this is going to happen or like likely to happen. Right. There has been a little bit of a pull forward in EV sales, both tariff related and because there was some sense that these were going to be removed. There is, if you're a car enthusiast, potential hope because the interest you pay on your loan might be tax deductible. Still getting worked out, but maybe it'll be tax deductible and that will surely offset any gain you would have gone. EV adoption is going to be in a tough spot in the US as a result. I will say.

[Doug DeMuro]

Right. I mean I would assume that you have to assume that these EVs are largely being propped up by the tax credit. A lot of them are advertised. Their price are advertised, including the tax credit, like as if it was just a guarantee. Do the question will be, number one, do people even buy EVs after that or lease them after the tax credit goes away? And number two, will America be significantly impacted? And of course, without a, without a big compelling reason to force people to buy these electric cars, automakers stop making them. And then we get more news stories like BYD has gone ahead of an American company in foreign markets. Yep.

[Kenneth]

A large part of EV adoption was the tax credit of just $7,500 for cars that met certain requirements during the Biden administration. They really tightened those to be just cars made in the US or with battery and with battery equipments made in the US and that did bring some manufacturing here, to be fair. Although there were concerns at the time too, notably if you leased a car, this is related to your income. There were phase outs above certain income level did not apply if you lease the car. And so that made leases really, really appealing. It was also true for used EVs. So certain used EVs were eligible for up to $4,500 tax credit, which if we're being honest, has very much propped up the sub $25,000 part of the used EV market, which is pretty much every Model S and Model three and every other.

[Doug DeMuro]

By the way, that is also in this bill that is also going dead.

[Kenneth]

So yeah, I'll have a large impact on adoption now. When the Biden era policies shifted to only allowing the tax credit for cars ever made in the US a bunch of manufacturers Hyundai and Kia, chief among them, applied really heavy incentives to keep selling those cars because they already committed to some production numbers and needed to get that through. So maybe people will do that and continue sales. But you're certainly not going to invest in more. No, you're certainly not going to invest in bringing those manufacturing with those cars for the U.S. right. That market's dead.

[Doug DeMuro]

And then. So China eats our lunch and we see where this is going. And we see where.

[Filippo]

We see where this is going. I know how. I know the song. See how the story ends.

[Kenneth]

Yeah.

[Doug DeMuro]

I mean, I hate to say it, but, like. And I'm not As an enthusiast, EVs aren't exactly my favorite thing. But you see where the world is headed and you see where China is headed with that new story we just did about byd. And you see what's going to happen when America doesn't incentivize people to buy electric cars 100%.

[Filippo]

We're doing it to ourselves.

[Kenneth]

Let's talk about the related story here.

[Doug DeMuro]

Okay, next news story.

[Kenneth]

Flip side or related to that. GM announced this week that they're investing $888 million in updating a factory that produces V8 engines right outside of Buffalo, New York. Shout out to Buffalo to produce their next generation V8.

[Doug DeMuro]

Shout out to Buffalo.

[Kenneth]

Got family there.

[Filippo]

He loves hot wings.

[Kenneth]

I love what?

[Filippo]

Hot wings. You love Buffalo.

[Kenneth]

Oh, sure.

[Doug DeMuro]

Can I ask a question? Do you think the $888 million.

[Kenneth]

I've wondered.

[Doug DeMuro]

Do you think. Do you think that was coincidental?

[Filippo]

I see what you say.

[Doug DeMuro]

Or do you think it was meant to placate the Chinese?

[Kenneth]

I've wondered about the coincidence, the V8, and also the connection Chinese. I. I've legitimately thought about whether they have they tried to make sure that it rounded to 888. Like, throw in a few extra million here. Regardless, we can move on from this. But basically, GM is still investing the next generation V8, and they're investing heavily in producing them because they expect it to be a large part of their infrastructure. It's not their only factory that produces V8. There's others.

[Doug DeMuro]

The GM owns the story happen without Trump and this, then these changes. No, Trump can. And Trump saved V8.

[Filippo]

Well, all right.

[Doug DeMuro]

What do you mean, well, all right? Trump. Trump saved V8. Philippe, are these truck engines?

[Filippo]

Yeah, that's the thing. I don't know that these are going to be V8s and sports.

[Kenneth]

No, no, no, no, no, no. This is all for the Silverado Tahoe Sierra.

[Doug DeMuro]

Those engines will find their Way into. Into builds that we'll do together with a couple of cold ones over a long weekend.

[Filippo]

A lot of cold ones.

[Kenneth]

Maybe we'll be the next and I aren't together.

[Doug DeMuro]

We could have been doing a build over a long weekend with cold ones like we usually do.

[Filippo]

Yeah, Memorial Day weekend. We could have done it, but alas.

[Doug DeMuro]

But remember Kenan, last year? Remember how we put that coyote in that Lotus Europa?

[Filippo]

I do, yeah. That thing, the Lotus America is what we called it.

[Doug DeMuro]

All right, give us our next. Yeah, Europa. Screw Europa.

[Kenneth]

Whoever.

[Filippo]

Speaking of Europas, tell us about that.

[Kenneth]

He is Europan. That's so true. This is the new Stellantis CEO. They finally announced who the new CEO is. It is a gentleman named Antonio Filosa. He's from Naples. He was previously the head of Tusilantis or Sub brands of it in South America. CEO of Jeep. He's been there for a while.

[Filippo]

And I'll tell you what, in this picture, he looks thrilled.

[Kenneth]

Yeah, he looks thrilled. So no, they announced that this morning. Their stock is down three and a half percent since.

[Filippo]

Yep, that's all I need to know.

[Doug DeMuro]

They're promoting from within. The stock market doesn't like the fact that someone else from Stellantis is going to be part of this. He was a part of the last batch of track. Is this the guy that gave us the Jeep Renegade? That question should be asked every time someone from Stellantis is promoted.

[Kenneth]

No, no, he gave us the Grand Wagoneer.

[Doug DeMuro]

Play on the Jeep Renegade.

[Kenneth]

Only the Grand Wagoneer. Is that better?

[Doug DeMuro]

No, God, no.

[Kenneth]

I, I, that. I'm partially joking. He became the CEO of Jeep in like 2023, but he was pretty instrumental in growing Stellantis in South America and in developing markets, which was a huge, huge market for them now.

[Doug DeMuro]

Yeah.

[Kenneth]

And time will tell. I will say they're like the quotes that articles have pulled out from like dealer groups and whatnot. Are not glowingly positive.

[Filippo]

Shocked at that, do you think?

[Doug DeMuro]

Well, but those, but dealer groups are just incredibly upset right now at Stolen.

[Kenneth]

So, I mean, and he, he's made clear that his focus is like relationship building and relationship building with suppliers, with dealers, et cetera.

[Doug DeMuro]

You know. You know, I worked in the business.

[Kenneth]

Yeah.

[Doug DeMuro]

And, and technically still do. Although right now I'm sitting in a room with an elephant behind me. You know how you build the best relationships is you make great products that dealers can easily sell. That's without, without putting an enormous amount of restrictions on them. That's like the primary way you build relationships in the industry.

[Kenneth]

So like the Grand Wagoneer plug in hybrid that they're testing.

[Doug DeMuro]

Oh my God. Can you think of a car that doesn't have a market more than the Grand? Did they learn nothing from the Chrysler Aspen hybrid?

[Kenneth]

They did not. They didn't make enough.

[Doug DeMuro]

Give us a good one. Come on. Good. Something important.

[Filippo]

So this is the new BMW? Well, yes, this is the new BMW M2CS and it's very exciting. 523 horsepower, 479 foot pounds of torque. And it's rear wheel drive, which is awesome. There will be no manual transmission with this car, unfortunately, which is really not really a surprise, but it is, they did make some pretty substantial weight savings with it. It's 70 pounds less than the automatic equipped M2 and it's 44 pounds less than the manual equipped M2 which is not easy to trim. It was already a relatively lightweight car.

[Kenneth]

A percentage.

[Filippo]

It's, it's not a huge, it's not a huge amount, but it is, it is still something.

[Doug DeMuro]

The power number is huge. Canon.

[Filippo]

It's 97%, 97 pounds less than the.

[Doug DeMuro]

Standard M2Cs have like 400 and some horsepower.

[Filippo]

It's a huge leap in power. Yeah, 523 horsepower is a lot. I believe it's 70 more horsepower than the.

[Doug DeMuro]

Yeah, the old one, original 444. So it's like 80. I mean that's a significant, significantly little car. Right.

[Filippo]

And again it underscores your point that like I understand that enthusiasts don't particularly love the current M2 but the fact that we have a 523 horsepower, real world drive BMW is like cool. Like that's really exciting and I don't know, I really want to drive this car and I'm sure it will be excellent to drive. The last M2Cs was brilliant. I'm sure this will also be fantastic. And it's an exciting, it's an exciting car from modern BMW. All hell, it's quite an exciting car.

[Doug DeMuro]

It's a shame that it's no stick though, considering.

[Filippo]

Yes it is and I'm sure every enthusiast like myself will bemoan that. But you know what, the fact that it's amazing they offer manual transmission in any of their cars at all at this stage.

[Doug DeMuro]

Okay, so it says it's going to cost 100 grand and go on sale before the end of the year. Yep.

[Filippo]

So we'll see it. We'll have, I'm sure you'll have one on test sometime soon.

[Kenneth]

Are we into the spoiler?

[Filippo]

It's a lot of money. It's a lot of money. But then again, the last M2Cs was also very expensive and really held its value as like a special car because.

[Doug DeMuro]

The market appreciates it. I agree that it's a lot of money money, but it's 520 horsepower. That car is going to be fast. That's going to be zero to 60 in the threes. That's going to be like a seriously quick car. Also, it's hard to find a European car that is like a real thriller for less than 100 grand new. I mean, that's just the truth.

[Filippo]

But I'm sure this one will be very tail happy and probably a handful to drive. So I think it'll be an exciting car.

[Doug DeMuro]

In 40, in 30 and 20 years. People are going to be putting sticks into these. What, you think I'm wrong?

[Filippo]

Well, Ryan at E3.9 Swiss, get on it. Start manual swapping these cars.

[Doug DeMuro]

They already do a stick in the regular one. They're gonna be. People are gonna do stick swaps. You think they won't? Filippo, me and Kenneth next Memorial Day. Kenan, let's get your garage ready. Get some jack stands.

[Filippo]

Get some jack stands. We'll crank the crank the tunes and get to work.

[Doug DeMuro]

Give us our next BMW related news story. There are three right in a row here. The other One is the M5. Okay. Did you guys read this BS?

[Filippo]

I did.

[Doug DeMuro]

The BMW. Some BMW executive. I don't pay attention to the executives. Filippo loves the executives announced. You didn't see this news story, Filippo?

[Kenneth]

No.

[Doug DeMuro]

They're shocked by the demand of the M5 wagon here in the States. The wagon is outselling the sedan and they're considering bringing the M3 wagon to the States. Which means that they will now. Color me surprise. Do you know that the Audi RS6 hasn't even offered a sedan? I looked it up in 13 years. 13 years since there was even an RS6 sedan available. It's wagon only. Even in the rest of the world, it's wagon only. In the US it's wagon only. Meanwhile, the AMG E63. When was last time you saw a sedan of that. That wagon way outsells that sedan too. Did BMW do absolutely no market research before bringing this car to the United States? Of course the wagon was gonna succeed. Obviously the M3 wagon would have succeeded as well. Completely stupid maneuver not bringing that car. It's just insane to me. They're surprised by this. I wasn't. You know, I think that the automakers sometimes are so default. Their default so Frequently to ignore the enthusiast because enthusiasts say dumb stuff online, which they do that sometimes. They actually just ignore the enthusiasts too much and don't realize what's right in front of them. This is a bonehead, obvious thing to everybody who's paying attention. Mercedes has been milking this for years. And then Audi was like, why don't we do this? And now BMW is surprised after the Rs6 been out for five years, hasn't it? Is anybody else surprised?

[Filippo]

Yeah, it is. I, I am happy that maybe this will finally force their hand into bringing the M3 touring to the United States in addition to the M5. I mean that would be, I would be very curious how that car would sell. Yeah, that's such a problem.

[Doug DeMuro]

They're not going to do it till the next gen. The next gen is going to be trash.

[Filippo]

I bet you that's the thing they missed the, they missed, missed it by that much when the next gen comes out.

[Doug DeMuro]

BMW figured out that Americans actually like performance wagons. Mercedes been doing it for 20 years. BMW figured out just at the end when they came out with a 9,000 pound one that plugs in that's so perfect.

[Kenneth]

It is notable. First of all, no other manufacturer brought a 3 Series C Class A4 RS4 wagon to the US in a while. So it'll be interesting to see what that market is. Secondly, you are complaining, which has sold.

[Doug DeMuro]

An A4 wagon here for many, many years is the all road.

[Kenneth]

They haven't sold a sporty A4 based one in a decade.

[Doug DeMuro]

I don't think anybody has ever sold a sporty the S4 Avant in like 2007. Was that the last one?

[Kenneth]

Yeah. They do something here. By the way, you're complaining preemptively about the new M3. When I think when it comes out you will say, oh my God, I can't believe enthusiasts ever thought it wouldn't be good.

[Doug DeMuro]

No, I am complaining preemptively before they've announced anything. I am. I have already begun the complaining. Suddenly we understand why BMW ignores enthusiasts.

[Kenneth]

Here at this carp, we're friends on and off camera. One of the best parts of our week, every week, is our group card dinner. It's a tradition we never miss. And this week's sponsor Cash app has made the one awkward part of the night splitting the bill so much easier. Because let's be honest, splitting the bill used to suck. Everyone pulling out their wallets, trying to do the math while the waiter hovers arguing over who's gonna pay. It was always weirdly stressful. But once we all got on Cash app, everything changed. Now one of us just picks up the tab, sends out the requests and boom, everyone pays before we hit the road. No awkward IOUs. No, I'll get you next time. Just clean, quick and done. And you can send payments down to the penny. We're always making dumb little challenges like Kennen. I'll pay you $3.17 if you parallel park in one. Try with cash app. I can. I haven't, but I can literally send exactly $3.17 on the spot. It's instant, it's specific, and honestly, it just makes stuff more fun. They've also got built in protections. If something looks off, like you're about to send money to the wrong person, the wrong Ken and Cash app will give you heads up. It's like your money's got a personal bodyguard. If for whatever reason you don't already have Cash app, go download it now. Sign up. Enter our code carpod C A R P O D in your profile. Send $5 to a friend and you'll get $10 just for getting started. For a limited time, only new Cash app users can use our exclusive code to earn some additional cash. For real? There's no catch. Just download Cash app and sign up. Use our exclusive referral code carpod Carpod in your profile. Send $5 to a friend within 14 days and you'll get $10 dropped right into your account. Terms apply. That's money. That's cashapp.

[Filippo]

This episode of this Car Pod is brought to you by Acre Gold. Now, you all know that I'm all about finding value, whether It's a pristine 964,911 or an immaculate E46 M3. But let's talk about a different kind of asset. Acre Gold. Inflation's hitting harder than a V12 at Redline. Gas car part, Even car washes are through the roof. Acre Gold lets you invest in real 24 karat gold bars for just a few bucks a day. It's like buying a classic car that never rusts. No finance degree needed, just pure, shiny gold delivered to you. Go to getacregold.com protect your money. Keep it golden. That's getacregold.com okay, move on to the last new Strads, the circle of life. But speaking of BMW wagons. So although they might not be, they are now getting into the party a little bit late with the M3 touring at Villa d' Este, which was last weekend, they showed this, which is the BMW speed top. It's a V8 powered swoopy looking wagon. It looks very Aston Martin Zagato y to me. Now they have said that not only is this a concept, they're actually going to build it. They're going to produce 70 units of it. It's going to use their most powerful V8 that they currently offer, which is a Twin Turbo V8 they've been making forever and I think it is tremendously beautiful.

[Doug DeMuro]

They're not actually going to call it the Speed Dub, right?

[Filippo]

My understanding is that is. Well, they'll probably change that but that's the name for it right now is the Speed Top which.

[Doug DeMuro]

But, but I mean they can't. I mean that name's.

[Filippo]

I mean. Yeah, well, Ferrari called one of their cars the Ferrari. The Ferrari. The Ferrari. So like, you know, there are dumber names out there, I have to say. But again, getting back to your point, so it's another wagon. So somebody there does like wagons and they are doing more of it. It's just like you said, a little bit too late. And I don't think this is going to come to the United States. But it is. When was the last time you looked at a BMW and thought wow, that's good looking? You know, it's been a while.

[Doug DeMuro]

No, I totally. I think the new 5 is really an attractive car. Oklahoma.

[Filippo]

And you and you alone. I think it's fine. It's not offensive. But I don't go, wow.

[Doug DeMuro]

Do you remember a couple of years ago when BMW always shows some cool concept car in Lake Como? Do you remember a few years ago? Because they got this Villa d' Este concourse. They got the Villa Dest. And how did that happen? How did they wrestle it away from storied Italian brands such as, Such as Piaggio? We don't know. But you remember a couple years ago they showed that Z4 hatchback thing.

[Filippo]

Oh yeah, yes, the BMW Z4 Concept Touring Coupe.

[Doug DeMuro]

Look that up. BMW concept touring coupe. 23 was the year.

[Filippo]

I think it was just called the Z4 Touring.

[Kenneth]

But yes, this thing very similar to what they're building.

[Filippo]

Damn, they should build that.

[Kenneth]

I think they did. Like that is a new one, just a little bit longer, same taillight design.

[Filippo]

That should be in current production. Those wheels look so cool. I mean damn, that's a good looking product.

[Doug DeMuro]

If that could be in production they would sell nine of them and then years later they'd be worth a lot of money on cars and bids. Bring that to us so that we can profit from it. BMW and you can lose.

[Kenneth]

Please, please, please.

[Filippo]

Pretty but nonetheless, I think that it's a very good looking car. And I was thrilled to see that at Villa Dust day.

[Doug DeMuro]

Yeah, we can't. We're not gonna. They're not gonna call it the speed top, though. I just have. I hope, I have to hope.

[Filippo]

Well, what can we say? Put some. We'll bet some cookies on it. And what can I say if I'm wrong? I'll bet they call it something stupid like that.

[Doug DeMuro]

The wheels also look a little small. I. I need. I need 23s. It is cool.

[Filippo]

Clearly two different sizes too. Like that's. So we'll.

[Kenneth]

We'll see.

[Doug DeMuro]

Nonetheless, that's the end of our news.

[Filippo]

That is the end of the news. Finally.

[Doug DeMuro]

Oh, my God. We have to move on because there's a lot to discuss in the talk car segment. And most importantly, the talk car segment is brought to us today by the Mercedes Benz A Class.

[Filippo]

Oh, you didn't do a drawing for us today.

[Doug DeMuro]

The Mercedes. You want me to like trace the A class right now? The Mercedes Benz A class. A car that has motivated Europe's grandmothers since 1997. The Mercedes Benz A class. Head to your local used car lot in suburban Belgium today and buy your own with Russ. Okay, Filippo, what do you have to say?

[Kenneth]

All right, so today on the Carson Bits channel. So a couple days ago, if you're listening to this, when this podcast comes out, we released a video where I did my first time driving on track.

[Filippo]

Yes.

[Kenneth]

And alongside that there's a Mini Cooper S John Cooper works for sale on cars and beds. That is the car that I drove and almost hit a wall in. Yeah. I've been thinking a lot about my. We talked about this when this happened. We showed a little teaser of it. But I think a lot about my track experience because I rewatched the video like the final edited video this morning. I want to do two speed takeaways. Track driving fun went a little too aggressive for a rainy day. Learn some lessons. Yeah. Thanks. Re show that. And I want to do more. More track driving. Those are my big takeaways. And I do legitimately recommend that everybody does some. If you have a track near you, if you have any kind of local even if it just go karting, go out and do that because it's just fun and it teaches you how to do. How to be a better car driver, a better controller of car.

[Filippo]

A better teaches the dynamics of a car.

[Kenneth]

It does.

[Doug DeMuro]

And without it is inexpensive hobby for sure. But you don't have fun.

[Kenneth]

I enjoyed this greatly. I had fun.

[Doug DeMuro]

You only do Things if they're efficient or have a purpose.

[Filippo]

But think about this, though. Track driving is all about efficiency and finding the tightest line and not waste and not having fun, not sliding it around. Just find this smooth control. That's what he likes.

[Kenneth]

I do think that I'm too cheap to get really into racing. Yeah, track days are expensive. Going deep in that world is a very costly endeavor that I'm just a little bit too cheap for. Like, I couldn't spend that much on a hobby, but I think getting some of that in my life would be rewarding.

[Doug DeMuro]

Yeah.

[Kenneth]

Which makes sense. I will also note this car is being auctioned with. With proceeds to benefit the American Bridge association, which is great work in kind of sharing stories of and promoting research. A brown brain cancer, which the owner of this car's wife had and has thankfully recovered from. So great. Cause we're also donating our buyer's fee to the American Brain Tumor Association. Go watch the video. Go watch me spin. And then talk a lot about how that happened, what went wrong, etc, while we're doing some other laps.

[Doug DeMuro]

Are they eviscerating you for your.

[Kenneth]

No, no, no. I didn't hit a wall. I recovered from it and then talked a bunch of with. With Wes, who was instructing me about kind of how to avoid that in the future.

[Filippo]

There was a great, great camera angle that looks at the front wheel and you can see right when Filippo makes the correction he needs to for to not hit the wall. And I mean, that's like you need to. You need to find your limits before you know and know where they are. And you did. And I. I watched the video. I thought it was a great video. And I think you did a fantastic job driving on the track your first time also to drive on a wet track.

[Kenneth]

Yeah, it was questionable. I didn't fully appreciate the situation I was getting myself into, but I did recover from it. I think a lot of that is. I've been replying to a bunch of the comments on the video. I think a lot of that is just paying attention when people talk about track driving and also just driving cars a lot and driving cars in snow. I think because I grew up in Wisconsin taught me a lot about, like, car dynamics in that way that applied even if a little bit instinctually. But recommend it.

[Doug DeMuro]

When you were a little boy and you left Italy to go to Wisconsin, were you like, damn, it's cold.

[Kenneth]

There were a couple of waypoints in New England first, but I did think a lot about how large vehicles were. My stepdad when we first moved to the US had an XJ Cherokee, which is now a small vehicle, but they.

[Doug DeMuro]

Sold those in Europe.

[Kenneth]

Yeah, but nobody had them. They existed. But nobody in Suburban Milan had anything larger than a Fiat Panda. And therefore I'd never seen a car that large. It was. Never seen an suv, never seen an American truck.

[Doug DeMuro]

Speaking of large vehicles, I have a talk cars segment for you, Filippo. For me personally, I've gotten back into my Sequoia. I think it's cool now. I love it. I want different wheels. We can have that conversation on a later pod. I want to get maybe some Black Rhinos. But I was looking last night at alternatives, as I often am, and I look at alternatives to make myself feel better about the decision I make.

[Kenneth]

For sure.

[Doug DeMuro]

You know what I discovered? Do you know what the fuel range of a diesel Suburban is? The fuel range. So how far it can travel between.

[Kenneth]

Diesel Suburban, I imagine. All right, let me math this out. I imagine like max fuel economy is like 25 large tank. Because why not? You got a Suburban like you got all the space in the third behind the third row and all the space underneath for a gas tank. 700 miles. 800.

[Doug DeMuro]

Yeah, 700.

[Kenneth]

That's a lot of miles.

[Doug DeMuro]

730 miles of range. Now, the Sequoia's range is 250, which is light. 730 miles of range. But listen to this. They offer a Tahoe Z71 diesel. So you can get the Tahoe, the full size SUV with the Z71, the off road, the lockers, all that stuff, and the diesel powertrain. But there's no Super Cruise. They don't offer Super Cruise on that. Why? They came close to building that car and they didn't do it.

[Kenneth]

Why?

[Doug DeMuro]

But the other problem that I have with the diesel Suburban in Tahoe is that, you know that that diesel engine is a six cylinder. It turns out they didn't make it. That Duramax didn't make it. Like a big old burly thing like I would have wanted. And so my Sequoia's Hybrid V6 has like 100 pound feet more than the diesel. The diesel in the Suburban.

[Kenneth]

So the diesel for efficiency and towing, not for speed.

[Doug DeMuro]

Yeah, well, towing torque is. Torque is. Torque is what it's all about, man. That's what I'm. That's what I'm here for. I'm here for the torque. Me and Kenan are torque guys.

[Kenneth]

Oh, yeah, it's what, £8,200?

[Doug DeMuro]

That's why Kenan got Emily A335D.

[Filippo]

That's right. Torque monster. JB14 on that thing. Pull stumps. I know how the diesel bros talk for the E90.

[Kenneth]

Flat pull stumps in your E90 anyway.

[Doug DeMuro]

720 miles range. Imagine that. So you know diesel suburban's got like 15,000 miles on it. They've only filled up like 11 times.

[Kenneth]

That's impressive.

[Filippo]

I mean genuinely like the fuel sitting there for so long. Does it start to go bad like in the time that you have it?

[Doug DeMuro]

That 700 mile range is only under optimal circumstances.

[Kenneth]

Well, of course.

[Filippo]

But I mean suboptimal, it's still over 500.

[Doug DeMuro]

Like absolutely. You can get in that car and it's. Yeah. The way I drive that car. No joke. I would only fill up between September and May. I would only fill up once probably. I don't imagine if I fill up with diesel. I'd have to go to a truck stop.

[Filippo]

Yeah, you kind of like that though.

[Kenneth]

It fits you.

[Doug DeMuro]

It really fits you. Suburban. You show up at a truck stop in a Suburban, it's like, hey, because you both are driving big vehicles.

[Filippo]

Yeah. Your rig.

[Kenneth]

Equally long.

[Doug DeMuro]

Equally long.

[Filippo]

There are only a few objects in your life that are absolutely essential to your well being just because of how much time you spend with them. For me, it really comes down to two my beloved E39 M5 and my mattress. Believe it or not, I'm equally in love with both. That's why I'm genuinely thrilled to have Brooklyn Bedding as a sponsor. They let me pick one of their mattresses to take out on a test drive and I went with the Aurora Looks cooling mattress with the cloud pillow top. I'm genuinely astonished. It's a total game changer. Before this I was tossing and turning, waking up hot, sore and honestly, still tired. Now I wake up refreshed after a night of cool sleep. It's wild and I am definitely not turning back now. I'm a side sleeper, so I need something soft enough for my shoulder but still firm enough to keep my back heavy. This thing nailed it. No more lower back pain, no overheating. Emily's sleeping better too, dreaming of track days and her E90M3 CRT, which is really saying something. Brooklyn Bedding has been doing this for over 25 years. Top tier comfort and quality without the ridiculous luxury price tag. Every mattress is custom made by master craftsmen at their facility in Ariz and they ship for free anywhere in the US. Plus you've got up to 120 nights to sleep on it. And if it's not for you. They will help you return it and swap it for something better. So if you don't hug your mattress every night like I do, it's time to Upgrade. Go to BrooklynBetting.com and use our promo code cars at checkout to get 30% off site wide. This offer is not available anywhere else. You have to use our promo code on the very last page of checkout to get this discount. That's BrooklynBedding.com use our promo code CARS for 30 off site wide. BrooklynBetting.com with the promo code cars Cannon.

[Doug DeMuro]

Tell us what's wrong with the M5.

[Filippo]

Yeah. So there are nothing major. The M5 has been about this already. No, M5 has been incredibly reliable since its most recent service, the E39, which is great. However, I looked over in the mirror the other day.

[Kenneth]

Of course, it's a bitter life.

[Filippo]

Well, yeah, but I mean, major service. That was a minor one. Like, the last major one it had was last summer.

[Kenneth]

How expensive was it? Had there been a full bill not covered by the fact that they did some of this work before?

[Filippo]

Well, had it been. I mean, no offense to Ryan, but had it not, had I been done right the first time and it wasn't. It wasn't his fault, like, then it. I don't know. It's kind of a moot point.

[Kenneth]

Like, it would have been already a minor.

[Filippo]

Zero is the correct.

[Doug DeMuro]

3500 is probably 3504 grand. Yeah. Anyway, continue that minor.

[Filippo]

Yeah. So I noticed. I looked over in the mirror the other day, and one of the mirrors is starting to delaminate, which is weird. There's these bubbles that are starting to appear in the mirror. I think they're about $400 a side for the glass, if there are any left in the world, which I think there might be. But I'm being really strict about the things that I do to the car. As I've talked about before, My friends recently got me all pitched in to have new windows and put on my car. It's my birthday present, which is very nice. I'm gonna schedule that and do a couple little cosmetic things to the car. I've decided to let the mirror go. There's also a squeak that I notice is coming that's like a rotational squeak, which I think is one of the heat shields or dust shields for the brakes, but I'm not sure. Just letting it go. I'm deciding to live with a couple of things. For the first time, my entire ownership with the car. I'm deciding to live with a couple of minor issues.

[Kenneth]

Proud of you.

[Filippo]

You know, this is not easy for me. I know it sounds stupid, but it's. I look over in the mirror and that's all I see are those little damn bubbles that are starting to form.

[Doug DeMuro]

You know, some would argue.

[Filippo]

What? That those aren't problems. They'll just keep going.

[Doug DeMuro]

You've taken it this far. Are you really going to start letting it fall to crap? Are you looking at the M5 right now?

[Kenneth]

I'm going to go through the bubbles.

[Doug DeMuro]

Yes.

[Filippo]

It's the passenger side mirror. Top of the passenger side exterior mirror. Look, I am going to look. I will do it at some stage. I'm sure I will, But I'm just waiting for it to get a little worse.

[Doug DeMuro]

Okay. All right. So you're going to fix it. Can I make a suggestion?

[Filippo]

Yes.

[Doug DeMuro]

You don't need to find new glass. Like, there are cars out there. You could just take the glass from that are in junkyards because. All right.

[Filippo]

How you think it's easy to find an E39M5 in the junkyard? You're out of your mind.

[Doug DeMuro]

They're very hard to find an E39 528i which is a 2000. No.

[Kenneth]

What are you different?

[Filippo]

The mirrors are completely different. The M5 mirrors are ovular. However, they're aerodynamically shaped.

[Doug DeMuro]

I'd put on the 528i mirrors just to screw with people. Oh, my gosh.

[Kenneth]

There's also no visible.

[Filippo]

Yes, it is absolutely there. I will send a picture that we can overlay and you will see it. I will take a picture.

[Doug DeMuro]

I need to see this and decide for myself. I was one of those friends that chipped it on the window tent. Kind of pricey. All right, let's move on.

[Filippo]

Thank you very much. I'm very excited for it to go to Kevin, but. Yes.

[Doug DeMuro]

Market report. We got to talk about the market report. The market report is brought to you by the elephant head that is behind me. Are you mad? Because it's not brought to you by cars and bids? Should it be brought to you by cars and bids?

[Kenneth]

It should be brought to you by cars and bids.

[Doug DeMuro]

My bad. Okay. It's not brought to you by the elephant head, although I just wanted to show because I killed this elephant myself on safari in Mongolia in 1983.

[Kenneth]

I'm prior to your birth. Impressive. Very, very proud of you, massively.

[Filippo]

You know, if you have a time machine, if you could lend it to Nissan so they could go and fix the problems, that would be Great.

[Doug DeMuro]

I'm glad you guys are impressed. His name's John. Anyway, wait. Cars and Bids brings us to us. Cars and Bids. The best place to buy or sell an enthusiast car. There's an app. You can download it in the app store. Go to carsandbids.com to check out all of the latest cars and their bids. Is that.

[Kenneth]

I'm so proud of you.

[Filippo]

Pretty good. That was well done.

[Kenneth]

And we're gonna cut your work here. Put that everywhere. We're gonna just cut that little clip. That's all we needed for the last three years.

[Doug DeMuro]

All right. Why don't you get AI to set it? Okay. I want to talk about a few things on the market report, and you all do too. There's a lot to cover the market report, which is not typical. But I want to talk GMC Top kick for a second. Here's something. We can't get into a short because nobody's ever heard of this car. Did you see this Kenan we sold? Okay, I want to make a point here. We sold this GMC top kick 05 top kick. With only 20,000 miles. It's got a long life left. It's a low stress diesel engine. It's like a 38 liter diesel. And there's something like that. Yeah, there it is. And it sold for only $58,000. And I say only because it strikes me that people in the world, this world that we live in, go out and they try to buy the biggest truck they can to flex and to be cool and to seem cool and to be like the big truck guy in their world. And they spend often $100,000 on some 2500, 3500 GMC Sierra. For 58 grand, you could buy a Top Kick. And you are beating out all of those people. Do you agree with me, Filippo?

[Kenneth]

All of them, unfortunately, you get mistaken for the dump truck guy that just there to pick up the trash that they've left that they've left in their garage.

[Filippo]

Yeah, that's not a communities.

[Doug DeMuro]

In the communities where the bigness of truck is the judgment of your worth. Being mistaken for the dump truck guy is not a bad thing. Nothing. It's a positive.

[Kenneth]

But the interior, you show up to your. Your, your friend's house and they just like open up the garage and say, yeah, you can take that and that and that and bring it to the dump for me.

[Doug DeMuro]

Look at the wood. Look at the wood. Do you see?

[Kenneth]

Yeah, that is a lot of wood. That's nice.

[Doug DeMuro]

Look at the leather.

[Kenneth]

Filippo, you see this Leather modifications, by the way. Both.

[Doug DeMuro]

Kenan, you telling me that you're not interested in a nice top kick? Go to photo number 47. There's a bed. This thing's got a bed.

[Kenneth]

That's so cool.

[Doug DeMuro]

All right.

[Filippo]

That's pretty cool.

[Doug DeMuro]

350.

[Kenneth]

I'm changing everything I said. And I also love the Sierra pickup bed from the. That's on. This is also modification and looks a little odd to me, but I. Somehow the lines actually work.

[Doug DeMuro]

Wait, all those heavy duty. It's probably because it's sold as a strip chassis. I think that's how they do it.

[Kenneth]

Yeah, probably all the guys like the.

[Doug DeMuro]

Ford one and all them, they always have just a regular super duty bed because they don't know what else to do. And so it always looks weird. But I. I still. You're a winner.

[Kenneth]

I want to be clear. I love this. I think it's legit. I don't know that I think 58 grand is like a deal.

[Doug DeMuro]

What do you mean?

[Kenneth]

A deal is a strong word.

[Doug DeMuro]

Felipa people. 120 grand for their F350. You have that King Ranch.

[Kenneth]

Well, they want. They want that big screen in the middle and they want 30 cup holders. And this car only has like four.

[Doug DeMuro]

Okay, well, 58 grand, then you take it to exhibit. No, I'm kidding. But like you could just add stuff. I mean like there's a lot of play screens you can put in with the savings and you go around and. You are the coolest guy in the world. I can't believe Nick doesn't have one of these.

[Filippo]

Don't. Don't tempt him.

[Kenneth]

Crazy. Nick should have one of these. Except that it wouldn't fit on a street probably.

[Filippo]

I will say it does look like it was designed in Microsoft.

[Doug DeMuro]

Why don't you have one of these? Yeah, okay.

[Filippo]

Well, that's fascinating.

[Doug DeMuro]

You don't think. You don't think that this is an interesting vehicle?

[Kenneth]

I think it's fascinating. I'm glad it sold. No clue what the market is because every other one has been used by a dump truck service what the market.

[Doug DeMuro]

Is for big flex tough guy pickups. And this seems like a deal.

[Kenneth]

Okay, go back to other top guys and go to the first one we auctioned three years ago. I know, but that looks so cool.

[Doug DeMuro]

No, that's too. That's not.

[Filippo]

That's cartoonish.

[Doug DeMuro]

In the communities where my Sequoia and where the Topkick is successful. Like Vicksburg, Mississippi.

[Kenneth]

Sure.

[Doug DeMuro]

The old one isn't play. This plays this way.

[Kenneth]

You know what else I'll know? I think frequently about the fact that your video on the Ford F650 which is like Ford's equivalent, is I think to this day one of your highest best performing videos. Like just sheer number of views, there's.

[Doug DeMuro]

Demand watched that video. Do you understand me?

[Kenneth]

Okay. Not only all of Vicksburg, all of every person in the south watch that video. I don't know. At this point.

[Doug DeMuro]

Filippo and Kenan, you both want to discuss the Porsche tractor. So let's just get it out of the way. Yeah.

[Kenneth]

17.3 million views on that video. By the way.

[Filippo]

Look at this. So for those who are unaware, Porsche did make tractors in the 1950s. It was in addition to, you know, what would later become their sports car manufacturing, like Lamborghini, they also made tractors. Of course, Lamborghini happened to start there. This one we had on the site, this was a junior, a 108 junior and sold for 18750. And I think it just underscores the level of quirkiness we are willing to go to, to sell on cars and bids. Because to be honest with you, when we started this thing, I did not think that we would have tractors on it at some stage.

[Kenneth]

Aren't you glad we do?

[Filippo]

But I am. And there's also, I believe it's a Goodwood, their Goodwood revival. Every year they race Porsche tractors. They do a tractor sprint which you would then be eligible with with this thing.

[Kenneth]

Thing.

[Doug DeMuro]

Can I ask a question?

[Filippo]

Sure.

[Doug DeMuro]

Would we run, would we have run this if it wasn't a Porsche? Is. Is. Is the fact that it's a Porsche like.

[Kenneth]

Yes.

[Filippo]

Well, I'm. Look, I'm not expecting to see John Deere anytime, but I'll tell you, nothing runs like a deer. But I'm not that if we had Lamborghini tractors on at some point, I'd be here for that. Porsche tractors here for that.

[Kenneth]

We draw the line of four tractors. They made too many.

[Filippo]

What would they did make a lot of?

[Doug DeMuro]

Lamborghini tractor. Do they still make tractors? They do. They do, yes. Gallardos, no.

[Kenneth]

Now whistling probably would make a tractor look like Gallardo. Here's an idea for you, Cody.

[Filippo]

Right.

[Doug DeMuro]

He doesn't watch this. Cody doesn't have time for us. Cody is busy blowing things up.

[Kenneth]

Yeah.

[Doug DeMuro]

So wait a minute. We sold the Porsche tractor. What did it sell for?

[Kenneth]

18,750.

[Doug DeMuro]

And where are we? Filippo, give us an educated take on the market for the Porsche, whatever that was. Track.

[Kenneth]

You know, I. I think the Porsche the fact that enthusiasts are very into Porsche and remain very into Porsche and special old Porsches 356 is anything that's kind of like vintage Porsche is still really hot. That's reflected here in a literal tractor that was imported from Germany. Unclear which side of Germany selling for 18750 feels like. Feels like the market. Correct amount, but a rising market.

[Doug DeMuro]

Kenan, can you. Filippo, that's really great analysis. That I'm sure has no bearing in reality. Kenan, can you pull up 2004 Porsche? Can you type 2004 Porsche into the search bar? I want to make a point here. That tractor sold for 18,750.

[Filippo]

Oh, I know what you're going to say.

[Doug DeMuro]

This go down that Cayenne, that first one. That Cayenne. Click on that first. That Cayenne sold for something less. What was it? 15 something?

[Kenneth]

Yeah, 15,301.

[Doug DeMuro]

But it's all manual snorkel and orange wheels. Okay, now I gotta be honest with you. I know it's a six cylinder and I know it's a six cylinder from the Volkswagen car. Golf, I understand all that. Nonetheless, if I'm, if I'm interested in a car and I'm the Cayenne buyer paid three grand less and he doesn't have to get wet when he.

[Kenneth]

But the tractor has a six speed manual.

[Doug DeMuro]

Okay, tractor wins. All right, give us the next market report.

[Kenneth]

Can we talk about the Octa Defender?

[Doug DeMuro]

Yeah, we got an Octa on the site.

[Kenneth]

We have an Octa on the site. Just Octa. That's great. So people don't know that this exists because they vaguely know that the Defender 110 V N90 V8 exists which is a Defender with a V8. The Octa is like the M version of Land Rover. The Defender Octa is the only one they've ever made. Like the first time they've done a high performance one. But it has 626 horsepower. It's 108 more than the regular V8 Defender. It has a like very like sport performance tuned air suspension system and it's a widebody and it's cool. I love seeing automakers kind of like first attempt at making something like really enthusiast focused. It's like the, it's like Land Rover's Raptor. They raptorified the Defender, you know, carbon fiber.

[Doug DeMuro]

You say that, but I always actually was a little disappointed that the Octa wasn't more raptorized because they gave it a lot more power. But they didn't like, like it would have Been cool to see like real flared fenders and real like off.

[Kenneth]

It's wider.

[Doug DeMuro]

Yeah, I know. It's a little wider and they got it looks like they finally figured out how to put a recovery hook in the front of the defender. God. My biggest complaint about that when I had mine.

[Kenneth]

It looks so cool. The wheels work. Like stylistically it works. And 626 horsepower is real power. The regular V8 Defender, like squats down and propels you forward. This goes more.

[Doug DeMuro]

Did you drive the V8 Defender when I had it or were you? No, it was fast. It had real power. The Defend octor sticker is 170,000 United.

[Kenneth]

States dollars, by the way. They have not made many. They haven't sold many. This is the first one I've seen like around and I'm excited that some cars and bits because we get to see the market.

[Doug DeMuro]

They're probably tariffed like crazy, I would imagine.

[Kenneth]

I'm sure if they weren't already here, they will be. Yeah. There's of course also an addition one. I have no clue what the market is because how hard are they to get? Nobody knows. We will find out.

[Doug DeMuro]

Seen it?

[Kenneth]

Have you seen It'd be cool. No. Except for this one, which is somewhere near us. It's in Diamond Bar.

[Doug DeMuro]

That is pretty cool. I want to talk to you about Mahan.

[Kenneth]

Oh man.

[Doug DeMuro]

This is my, my market report topic for the day. I want to talk to you about Mas. Can you pull up? Can you type in Maan Turbo? Kenan? It hit me the other day that Macan Turbo Turbos are selling pretty regularly. Pretty regularly in the 20 to 28, let's call it 18 to $25,000 range. Some have sold for 15 and then obviously newer ones sell for more. But 18 to $25,000 will buy you a decent, legitimately decent Macan Turbo. Okay, now I don't know how much you guys know about these cars, but this car is pretty serious. It's a dual clutch, it's all wheel drive. It's 400 horsepower twin turbo, not four cylinder V6. And it's got 406 pound feet of torque. A little more than 400. These are pretty cool. Now everybody in the world is into hot hatches. Like Filippo's got his little hot hatch. Actually, he's got two of them. One of them is a convertible. Somehow it's a hatchback and a convertible. I don't know how I figured all that out. But this, this is like if you're a hot hatch guy, why aren't you Interested in one of these? I understand it's an suv, but we're talking about a spread of inches here and it steers and handles not that differently from a hatch. It really doesn't.

[Filippo]

Two things to say. One, the 500 is not a hatch. It's. It doesn't have a hat, it doesn't hatch up. It has a normal trunk. Therefore it is not a hatchback. It is a something else. A small, fast little car, city car. It's not a hatch. Fast as number two. It's quick, that car. The way that turbo comes on, it's just old school. Turbocharger comes all in once. Very fun. I think the thing that holds, that's a hatchback. Your A class was a hatchback. That's correct. And so is a Ferrari 812 technically. But. But this car, I think the reason is these cars just everything Porsche is expensive to take care of. All of the consumables on this car are really expensive and these cars are not that reliable is my understanding. They have some issues really. And so like you're taking on more of a risk than like a GTI in this car.

[Doug DeMuro]

I mean that's.

[Filippo]

I think you are against cars like.

[Doug DeMuro]

The Golf R and the Audi RS3. Well, aren't those cars also difficult to own and expensive to own?

[Filippo]

I mean not as expensive as this.

[Doug DeMuro]

All wheel drive. This is practical. It's got 400 horse twin turbo V6. This is a pretty exciting car.

[Filippo]

You, you it. The Macant. That's what you call it. You say that it's not for you call it the Macant. It's. I think it's because it just has a reputation of being kind of a car that's driven by like Suburban.

[Kenneth]

The Turbo doesn't though.

[Doug DeMuro]

That's the thing. Like the Defender has that reputation too. But the Octa is the 626 horsepower version. Like all I'm saying is if I'm looking. And by the way, Kenan, a lot of my criticism of the con comes it's a new car at 85,000, 25,000 at 400 Horse All Wheel Drive. And have you driven one? They are fun.

[Filippo]

They are fun.

[Doug DeMuro]

They are fast little cars. They actually drive not that different from hot hatches. And I know that's enthusiast like sacrilege to say that a crossover could possibly equivalent, but I bet you get on track with a Golf R and this is probably about as fast, if not a little quicker.

[Kenneth]

I mean I'm looking at a Golf R that we sold last week that was a 2015. 98,000 miles. Miles sold for 15750. There's a 2015 Macan Turbo with 10,000 more miles. So just over 100k. We just sold for 16. 5. The Golf R has 292 horsepower. The Maan has 108 more.

[Doug DeMuro]

Yeah, and I know the Maan doesn't have a stick and if you want a manual, I would go, neither does.

[Kenneth]

That Golf R. That Golf R was automatic, Right?

[Doug DeMuro]

That's the thing. There's a lot of these hot hatches don't even have manual transmissions. And so it's like.

[Kenneth]

I agree with your point. The Macanta Turbo is an appealing car given that it is a hot hatch. Just more powerful than any other hot hat.

[Filippo]

When I was on my. But when I was on my Cayenne thing, Doug told me specifically, I can't get him a con.

[Kenneth]

Well, he's wrong.

[Doug DeMuro]

Well, I, I do think that the. I do think that for a, in a lot of, for a lot of reasons, the Cayenne is, is more appealing for a lot of people.

[Filippo]

Well, it also costs about the same, to be clear, for the generation.

[Doug DeMuro]

What are you looking for? I mean, your, your whole thing was you wanted a car that could drive over dips in the road. The Macan, I think I'm talking about the Macan as a replacement for a hot hatch, as a car you could kind of throw around. But also adds a little bit more practicality than a typical hot hatch because it has more ground clearance, all wheel drive and it's fast. A Cayenne loses the dual clutch and is bigger and taller and it's more capable. But you know, it's not going to be as sporty. But you already have that E39 M5 with the bubbling passenger mirror. I mean, it's just. Yeah, I didn't want to say anything. Anything I had noticed.

[Filippo]

Genuinely just started like eight days ago.

[Kenneth]

I would think that you're a little bit cooler if you show up in a Golf R than if you show up in a Macan Turbo.

[Filippo]

I agree with that.

[Kenneth]

And that still does impact him, but at the same price point.

[Filippo]

It's compelling, man.

[Kenneth]

It's compelling. Neither is the pinnacle of reliability, although both. I haven't heard that many bad things about Contour.

[Filippo]

I don't know. I know someone who had a lemon.

[Kenneth]

Lol.

[Doug DeMuro]

But recently I agree with you that the Golf R is cooler from an enthusiast perspective. And I am not saying the Macan is cooler for sure. That's not my point. I'm just saying it's something that Golf R people ought to consider as an option now that they've depreciated this level. Macan Turbo legitimately drives like a Porsche. It truly does. It is surprisingly fast. It is fun. The dual clutch, it's quick. And by the way, the other cool secret about the Macan is because they never redesigned it, a 15 Macan doesn't really look that different from the Macan. They still sell the gas Macan to this this day. Your neighbors will never know you didn't spend $86,000 for a car. For better or worse, that's what Filippo is trying to do. He's trying to impress his neighbors.

[Filippo]

He's on a budget.

[Kenneth]

I. That is a little opposite of my life approach, period. But I, okay, I'm looking at. Because I'm still on the Maan and the Golf R that I pull up front of me, the Golf R that these sold for the same amount within rounding kind for mileage, Golf R was 40k new in 2015. The Macan Turbo was 93,000.

[Doug DeMuro]

There you go.

[Kenneth]

First of all, how, how There's a downside, which is things will be more expensive. Oil changes will be more expensive, brakes a little harder. It all gets a little bit more costly. But you're also getting what was in 2015, twice as much car for the same price point. That becomes appealing. I'm with you.

[Doug DeMuro]

And a Porsche. You can tell people I drive a Porsche and they'll be like, ooh, which one? And then you go, yeah, you got.

[Kenneth]

To turn the key with your left hand. That's confusing.

[Doug DeMuro]

Turn the key with your left hand just like Jackie ick did in 67. All right, let's go to questions. Questions brought to you by. Well, certainly not any Mini Coopers. Okay, questions. First question. There are some good questions today. There are some good questions today and there are some bad questions. Filippo, do not look at the questions.

[Filippo]

He's cheating.

[Doug DeMuro]

The first question is, it was the top voted question and it's from Indecan. And the question is, which modern supercar has the perfect DNA to be a shooting brake design success story? It's a good question. If you could turn any modern supercar into a shooty shooty, what would you do?

[Filippo]

Any supercar.

[Doug DeMuro]

Right.

[Kenneth]

How are you defining supercar?

[Doug DeMuro]

Well, I mean, any, like, expensive, like expensive, modern cool situation.

[Filippo]

I think the. Well, I mean, I don't know because immediately that makes me think, okay, it has to be front engined, got to be front. I think that it would have to be, because otherwise I think it would.

[Kenneth]

The Renault R5 Turbo did it.

[Filippo]

Okay. All right, all right. Filippo. I. I mean the, the Ferrari DOD seems like a good. I mean that seems like a natural one to do that too. Any of the Aston Martins I think would look great. And Zagato has done that in the past.

[Doug DeMuro]

Yep. Yeah, I agree with those. What about the Rolls Royce Wraith?

[Filippo]

I think they did do one for.

[Doug DeMuro]

Oh no, that's the one that, that's the one that what's his name has that Dario franchise has.

[Filippo]

Yes.

[Doug DeMuro]

They didn't do it, but some company did it for him.

[Filippo]

Some company did it for him.

[Doug DeMuro]

Yeah, I agree with those. Those are good Aston's. And the Dodechi Chalindri. The Dodeci Chillind. The Dodeci. Chilling.

[Kenneth]

I was wondering how it would get worse. I knew it would.

[Doug DeMuro]

What about, you know what cool is? You don't look cool as a hatch is a sheeran.

[Filippo]

Well, be pretty hot back there.

[Kenneth]

Take.

[Filippo]

Can't put any chocolate in the chocolate.

[Doug DeMuro]

That thing. Remember when Porsche announced that special witches thing and I wanted to make a Cayman hatchback or like a Cayman like wagon?

[Kenneth]

That would work.

[Filippo]

That would have been cool.

[Kenneth]

The, the, the 296 engine placement aside.

[Doug DeMuro]

I think would look good. I think you could do it in some of these low mid engine cars. It would almost be like academic, like it wouldn't be purposeful.

[Kenneth]

Right.

[Doug DeMuro]

But the Dodechi Chalindri is definitely the one.

[Filippo]

It would look like that Daytona that they. They did wagonize. Do you know the conversation or the bread van? Yes. Well, I don't know.

[Doug DeMuro]

Laughs because he doesn't know what the bread van is. Kenner, you gotta educate him. When we get off this call, you've got to educate the hell out of him.

[Kenneth]

That looks so bad.

[Doug DeMuro]

Yeah, that looks terrible. Is that a horse?

[Filippo]

I've saw it in person at Amelia Island. I actually think it looked. It looked much better in person. But that curved glass is ridiculous.

[Doug DeMuro]

The 250 GTO bread van, Filippo, is one of the most famous Ferraris of all time.

[Kenneth]

Pull it up, Kenneth. I'm familiar for the record.

[Doug DeMuro]

Yep. You are not familiar.

[Filippo]

Pizzerini did this himself.

[Doug DeMuro]

Look at that.

[Kenneth]

Of course I'm familiar. You think I wouldn't be familiar?

[Doug DeMuro]

You don't know the.

[Kenneth]

You think I wouldn't know?

[Doug DeMuro]

Sean will teach you about it. Okay, next question. This is a good one from big Ultima Hater 6. Given the recent success of RS3 and E63 wagons and the insanely high resale value of the second generation Cadillac CTS wagon on the used market market. Why hasn't Cadillac made a CT5V Blackwing wagon? I will tell you my personal opinion. This is not going to be a joking answer. Shockingly, the AMG and RS6 wagons have been successful. However, they are also based upon standard cars which in other markets are quite popular. My presumption is that Cadillac cannot justify the creation of a CT5 station wagon in less there is a base model, which is one of the reasons why they did do a base model CTS non V wagon back in 2010 and it wasn't successful. And so my presumption is that if they, if you could make money making just a wagon body style for the V, they would do it because it would be hot. But I bet that they can't justify that, whereas the Euros can because they have the A6 Avant and they have the, the 5 series touring and that sort of thing. That's my guess.

[Filippo]

Yep, that seems, that seems like a fair assessment, but man, that would be cool.

[Doug DeMuro]

You want to know what card look best as a shooting break? The CT5V Blackwing?

[Kenneth]

No, the CT6V would actually look best, but that's okay. I'm, I'm, I'm a big wagon guy.

[Doug DeMuro]

I hate big wagons. I'm a, I'm a midsize wagon, small wagons and I hate big wagons. I am a midsize wagon guy.

[Kenneth]

I, I. It's also worth noting for people that might not be as awesome where the, in Europe, which is obviously the home markets for BMW, Audi, Mercedes, their wagons are all use like base model e class wagons, 5 series wagons, A6 wagons are all the A6es E classes 5 series that they sell in Germany especially. Like that is their bread and butter product, the product most important for their European market.

[Doug DeMuro]

But yeah, yeah, sure. But like it's probably a 50, 50 split or a 70, 30 or yes, it's a huge proportion. They don't make those wagons for enthusiasts. If, if the standard model stopped selling, there would be no AMG wagon anymore, no shot. And so that's probably the answer to that, which is sad because I think that would be incredibly, incredibly, incredibly cool.

[Filippo]

I think the market would agree.

[Doug DeMuro]

Okay, Filippo, I got one for you for the next question. And you're gonna have to just live with it and roll with it.

[Kenneth]

Okay, I'm ready.

[Doug DeMuro]

From Toyota 2Runner. Oh, that's the 4Runner they have in they in Florida. From Toyota 2Runner. How would you rank the generations of the Mercedes S class? Do you know the S class gens?

[Kenneth]

Felipe pulling them up. One second.

[Doug DeMuro]

Okay.

[Kenneth]

How far back we going?

[Doug DeMuro]

Back to the 126.

[Kenneth]

Okay.

[Doug DeMuro]

Which is 79. W140. W140 is first and W220 is last.

[Kenneth]

Fully agreed.

[Doug DeMuro]

Everything other than that. I'm open to a conversation about Kenan.

[Kenneth]

Do you have strong thoughts here? Does it. Doug and I agree with me.

[Doug DeMuro]

You can. Do you agree with me about the 140 and the 220. You know the ones. The 140. I do know the ones in the 90s. And the 220.

[Filippo]

Yeah. The 220 is definitely the worst. And the market agrees as those are $4,000 cars now.

[Kenneth]

I don't think they look bad. To be clear. I actually think it the right trim. It's a great looking automobile.

[Filippo]

But the S65 looked great.

[Doug DeMuro]

But other than that, you know I was thinking about that this is, this should be a topic for us to discuss that a lot of the worst generations we rank often have one model that was actually the best. All like the Diablo. We were ranking all the Lambos. The Diablo is, is, is. We put it kind of in the middle. Lower. But the SE30 maybe is the best one of all. Ball. Right. And I, I agree with you. The. The 220. 65 is one of the very best S classes of all time. It is absolute baller status in the coolest way. But the general vehicle was.

[Kenneth]

All right. Here's my take. I've written down.

[Filippo]

Okay. Oh, oh, I get it.

[Kenneth]

A 65 AS engine problem.

[Doug DeMuro]

I see you wrote them down.

[Kenneth]

I wrote them down. Here, here, here's. Here's my take. I agree. W 1440 best.

[Doug DeMuro]

Yeah. Bruno Sacco followed.

[Kenneth]

Followed by. And I agree. W220. 220.

[Doug DeMuro]

Last.

[Kenneth]

Second. I put in the W221.

[Doug DeMuro]

Yes.

[Kenneth]

It was such an improvement. It like.

[Filippo]

Yeah.

[Kenneth]

It's recreated what the S class should be.

[Filippo]

I agree.

[Kenneth]

Yep.

[Filippo]

And that to me when I think S class that is still what I think. Yeah.

[Doug DeMuro]

And honestly it's that one. It's been modified with aftermarket wheels.

[Filippo]

It's in Florida. It's exactly that car.

[Doug DeMuro]

It's.

[Kenneth]

It's still a card that I think looks modern. Still has honestly quite modern equipment. That's great. I debated for a bunch.

[Doug DeMuro]

On fourth, the 221. This is going to be the hottest take of the century. But the 221 is the best looking S class. The 140 is also very good looking and, and, and had enormous benefits in its Teutonic production. But the 221 with its. With its ridiculous fenders was the only time they ever really took a. A risk. And they did it in a wonderful way and it worked. And I think that's a. That's a. It was a beautiful car. Then I remember even. Even. Even when it came out in 2007, thinking like, wow, this. This thing looks baller, but not excessive.

[Filippo]

Like, that's how they all are with that purple rear windshield tint. I remember that vividly.

[Doug DeMuro]

Yep.

[Kenneth]

Pull up an S621 in a color with the right wheels, too. Like an S600 in mocha espresso brown.

[Filippo]

Oh, that you bid on.

[Kenneth]

I bid on a couple all those years ago. Yeah. It's been a while in the color that my E class wagon actually is, which is unfortunately can't search by. I got the tr. I'm going to go 223 third.

[Doug DeMuro]

Okay.

[Kenneth]

I think that they've done a nice job with the current generation S class. It looks modern. It has everything without it being styled like a seven series. Let's say you said 223. I think. Yeah. I think they've just done generally good job when I see one. I think this is a goodlook modern luxury sedan, and they've done a good job integrating luxury and tech.

[Doug DeMuro]

But don't you think that the 222 was. I mean.

[Kenneth]

No, no, no. I'm putting 222 seconds last.

[Doug DeMuro]

Oh, you're insane.

[Filippo]

You're out of your mind. That is a great car for Lisa.

[Kenneth]

It's a good car.

[Doug DeMuro]

The problem I have with the 223 is that the 222 already did it all.

[Kenneth]

No, I think three was too subtle.

[Doug DeMuro]

Of an evolution for me.

[Kenneth]

I think that about the 222 over the 221. I don't think there's enough of a leap.

[Doug DeMuro]

That's what saying that would be.

[Filippo]

You are nuts.

[Doug DeMuro]

That would be like saying cuddling with a stuffed animal is the same as getting punched in the face.

[Kenneth]

Face. I. I truly think that the. The leap from 221 to 222 was not significant enough.

[Filippo]

That's cars.

[Doug DeMuro]

It's very. You saying that you've never been in the cars. You're out of the discussion. It's now just me and Kenan.

[Filippo]

Yeah. I'm on your side with this one. I be. I violently disagree with on that.

[Doug DeMuro]

So it's. It's 140, 221. I think next I would actually put. And this is. This is going to be by, by the way, what we haven't addressed yet, the big sacrilege here is not putting the 126 on this list yet, because there are people who are obsessed with the 126, including hoovy. If Hoovy sees this and I don't think he watches this pod, thank God. But if he sees this, he's going to lose it on me for not putting the 126 like, at the very top. I just never. The problem I had with the 126, I know it was built well, I know it was, but it had. It has two big problems. Problems. Number one, every version of it was slow. There was never a fast one. And number two, it's, it's. The tech was really not like, that was the era when luxury was like, by building a car, well, you made a luxury car. It was not particularly advanced. And people are going to get on here and be like, it was the first car with electronics, stability in the headlight sensor. And that may be true, but, like, ultimately there was different vents in the climate control for heat and cold. And so, like, that's not really what I'm looking for in terms of quantity.

[Filippo]

But then can you just put it on the list and have it be last for you?

[Doug DeMuro]

No, the 220 is definitely last, but I think. I think my list is as follows. 140, 221, 222.

[Kenneth]

Wow.

[Doug DeMuro]

1, 223. 126.

[Filippo]

Yep.

[Doug DeMuro]

220. Boom.

[Kenneth]

Wow. I. I have the 126 higher because it was seminal and I had the 222 a little lower.

[Doug DeMuro]

Canon, are you going to do these or do you not believe in the S class?

[Filippo]

No, I agree. I agree with your analysis on it. That's. That's how I feel about them.

[Doug DeMuro]

The special. We didn't talk about the 116, but I'm okay with that.

[Filippo]

I might put the 221 above as the first because when I think that's just what I think of it was such a. It like redefined the luxury space for, like, what it could do, what a Mercedes could do. And that's saying a lot from Mercedes. It also saved them from that reputation of the 220, which was quite poor. Yeah. And so I think it actually.

[Kenneth]

But this Bruno Sako is Bruno Sacchaka 126 third.

[Doug DeMuro]

The 221 first.

[Filippo]

I love that car.

[Doug DeMuro]

One was also an amazing ability of making a car look baller, like the new 7 Series, without looking ugly like the new 7 Series. It's actually kind of hard to do in that segment. A Phantom can do it because they can just make it big and do whatever they want. They have all these design heritage cues they can use. But Mercedes Benz has to be both restrained and baller and that is actually hard. And the 126 and the 140 are too restrained. Fine with me. Like a restrained car. But the 221 does an amazing job. Like you. If you heard it talked about, you'd think it looks it went too far. But it didn't. It was really a beautifully designed car.

[Kenneth]

Baller, but not ugly is a fine, fine balance.

[Doug DeMuro]

It's especially a fine line in the luxury sedan segment when you're trying to appeal to both like athletes and people who want to show off, but also executives and people who don't want to show off. That's like a pretty tough group.

[Kenneth]

Yep, agreed.

[Filippo]

That's a nice looking and it still looks good.

[Doug DeMuro]

For the record, with those wheels, a 600 with those wheels. If, if I could have a 600 with those wheels, I, I would probably be willing to sell Felipo to the devil.

[Kenneth]

I, I bid on this car, if memory serves. Or I bid on the. It's been for sale multiple times and I bid on it one of the times cuz I wanted it. It seemed cheap at that moment. Maybe I didn't bid on this one.

[Filippo]

I know I'm pretty confident you did.

[Kenneth]

Oh, I did.

[Filippo]

There you are.

[Kenneth]

There was a time it was, it was nearish to me. I'm saying 1402-211262-23222, 220. You disagree with the mic.

[Doug DeMuro]

You're only putting 126 so high to placate enthusiasts. That's not your actual belief, but fine. Okay.

[Filippo]

I'm staying. Yeah, it is.

[Doug DeMuro]

I want to talk. I want to talk. And this is. I want to do three more questions. And they're very, very good questions and we have to do them. Okay. That's why we have the three. Okay, well, number one from T. Barert. Not T. Barrett, but T. Barert. Is there a floor on Julia Quads? You recently sold one for 28. Seems like a lot of car for the money. That's an interesting question. I didn't realize they were getting into that level. Did you guys?

[Kenneth]

Yeah, because I've tried to convince our producer Sean to buy one for a while.

[Doug DeMuro]

We sold one for 27. 250.

[Kenneth]

Sold another one for 28.

[Doug DeMuro]

That's 52. 000 miles. That looks like a pretty nice car. Yeah. Another one for 28.

[Filippo]

I think that, I mean, that's 5 horsepower, right? I mean, yeah, but it's just. It's unreliable and there's nowhere to service.

[Kenneth]

The M3, by the way, is at the same price point. A 2015 M3 is literally at the same price point.

[Filippo]

These have a lot of more.

[Kenneth]

Yeah.

[Doug DeMuro]

F8 are 27, aren't they?

[Kenneth]

I don't think they should be. I don't think lowest price F80 is 26. 250.

[Filippo]

Yeah, but this one just sold for 21. 46.

[Kenneth]

20 manual ones go to. Go to an automatic. I mean, sure, but that's like a good color.

[Filippo]

This one's an automatic.46.

[Doug DeMuro]

Cheap F80s seem to be in that range. That one, that one that sold for 20. 26, 250. It's like, like 30 accidents.

[Kenneth]

34. We're in the same ballpark.

[Doug DeMuro]

Yeah, well, 34 pretty different to me, but fine.

[Kenneth]

Right.

[Filippo]

I agree with talking that one.

[Kenneth]

But I do think that there's a floor. But I think that floor is 20.

[Filippo]

I think a floor is lower.

[Doug DeMuro]

That's a cool car for 20. I mean, it's Italian. It's cool. It's 500 horse rear wheel drive. I know they didn't do sticks, but that's a pretty cool car.

[Kenneth]

Yep.

[Filippo]

It'll break. I mean, I wanted one when they were new and the issue was that like the. They just. They just aren't reliable cars.

[Kenneth]

Today is reliability day for Kenan.

[Filippo]

Well, it's a fact, not an opinion.

[Kenneth]

I know, but. But you don't like the mechanic because you drive around an Ethereum M5, which is not the pinnacle reliability.

[Doug DeMuro]

That's not.

[Kenneth]

And now. And now you're very concerned about reliability for every other sports car. It's interesting.

[Filippo]

No, no.

[Kenneth]

I mean, who did you become?

[Filippo]

No, no.

[Kenneth]

My Doug's gone for two weeks.

[Filippo]

My car has. My car has been incredibly liable for the last seven and a half and 8,000.

[Doug DeMuro]

Kenneth Kenan. You want that go on the record on this podcast. You've spent like $80,000 over those seven years.

[Filippo]

Over 10, over a decade. And a hundred thousand miles. That's what it kind of.

[Doug DeMuro]

Kenneth, how much money? Dude, I got eight years in the Ford GT and I'm like $16,000 into it.

[Filippo]

Yeah, but you haven't driven it 100,000 miles.

[Kenneth]

We've driven the wagon 10 or 50,000 miles and we're.

[Filippo]

Yeah, but that's not a performance.

[Kenneth]

But my point is not. It's not the pinnacle of the liability goal post, Felipe.

[Doug DeMuro]

We have to move them. That is not a reliable car. And also, by the way, the. The mirrors dealing well, it's expensive to.

[Filippo]

It is expensive to maintain. It hasn't stranded me in a long time.

[Kenneth]

I mean, that's true.

[Filippo]

How do you define reliable? Reliable means you can rely upon it. I can take that car anywhere in the country.

[Kenneth]

If you're willing to spend 80 grand on maintenance, you can take any car anywhere in the world.

[Doug DeMuro]

Yeah, well, Julia, 80 grand on maintenance, you buy four of them, you're good.

[Filippo]

You're gonna need to.

[Kenneth]

I think that Pantera around the world.

[Filippo]

The thing about that is I could take. If you. If ultimately I got Transformer, I need to go to BMW dealer for service. It could. There aren't that many Alpha San Diego.

[Kenneth]

If you own that car, then it's called K and S. It's in Kerne Mesa.

[Filippo]

I thought they called it.

[Kenneth]

No, it's still El Solar.

[Doug DeMuro]

No, there is an Alfa Romeo deal. It's called K and S. They do Alfa Romeo. This is an insane conversation.

[Kenneth]

Do I feel bad for that dealer because they do Alfa Romeo sales? Yes, of course. Who doesn't? But they exist.

[Filippo]

The point is, I think that they will continue to go down. They did make a ton of them. They are. They don't have a great reputation for reliability, I think. I don't think they sound like good. I think they look awesome and I think they drive pretty well and they're cool, but they're just going to keep going down.

[Doug DeMuro]

You want to know something insane, Ken? And go to Google and type in kns. Alfa Romeo, that's the dealer in San Diego. Go to Google and just type in.

[Filippo]

K and S. Yeah, yeah. K. Like Ampersand.

[Kenneth]

Ampersand.

[Doug DeMuro]

Yeah, yeah, yes, Alfa Romeo. Okay, go to that. Go to K and S. Alpha. Okay. Click on their website. This is incredible. Click on their website. Look, the top car, the main car right there is a Mercedes C class and a BMW. Some kind of BMW.

[Kenneth]

I will note. I look at. I keep an eye out for Ks plate frames around because like, it's nice to see what they're selling. Very, very, very few Alpha bales and a whole lot of used the other driven cars.

[Doug DeMuro]

You got to admit. That's why, dude, if a Porsche, when I worked at Porsche, if a Porsche dealer had done that, the COO would have flown to that dealer that and murdered the general manager of the dealership right there on the spot for doing that. Okay, okay, I got two more. This is a good question from Daddy Doug. SRT8. That's the high performance version of Daddy Doug. Do you think that brands like Toyota and Honda, the reliable brands, will lose some Market Share As EVs become more prevalent since their main selling point is now reliability? That's some interesting question that I had never considered. Filippo, answer it for us.

[Kenneth]

I think what Honda and Toyota have secretly done well and why Lexus sells any cars is that they deliver. They're generally reliable and they deliver a great experience when something, when they need to go to a dealer, something that Hyundai and Kia have done a poor job of, frankly. So I think the question will become less about reliability. Like mechanical components won't have problems, but the tech will. And like durability remains a question. If you go into Camry interior, the leather is not delaminated like it is on that Julia, you. So durability will remain a question. And can you deliver a good experience when you go to the dealer for something that does go wrong? Honda and Toyota will still have a differentiation.

[Doug DeMuro]

Yeah, but, but the general feeling is those cars are reliable and they're more reliable and it's not really a differentiation.

[Kenneth]

People don't know why, like they can't point to oh wow, the, the engine is more reliable. They don't know what that means. It just, it's a more reliable car, it's a more durable car. It lasts forever.

[Doug DeMuro]

Break. I think the primary thing when people are thinking about reliability, I think the primary thing that they're thinking about is does the car not break?

[Kenneth]

Yeah. And a lot of EV companies have had problems with especially tech getting cars like having weird tech issues. And Toyota and Honda are generally a little more careful now. Of course, Honda's only EV is built by Chevrolet and so we'll see.

[Doug DeMuro]

Well, my point, I don't know. I just think that it's an interesting question. It's an interesting question. A lot of people look at that Consumer Reports and all that and then they hear stories from their friends friends about reliability and the game might shift. If that's Toyota and Honda's big thing, the game might shift.

[Kenneth]

It's an interesting question over time for sure.

[Doug DeMuro]

The last question that I want to ask from 2003 Buick century. This is a very good question. If you were the CEO of Nissan, what would be the first thing that you would do to try to save the company?

[Filippo]

Give up and go home. I mean not wrong.

[Doug DeMuro]

What would you do? Hot hatch Lincoln competitor.

[Kenneth]

I'd maybe consider divesting from Mitsubishi. But the hardest thing is that Nissan hasn't not done this. I mean the Rogue is probably their most updated and most competitive product and that's the class in the US you have to compete in. I would probably just keep going all in on can I get, get people into Rogues and can deliver a decent experience. I think you also have to ditch fleet sales in a large sense which is hard because they make you revenue, they, you can sell cars. But I think you have to just kind of accept that that is hurting your brand reputation heavily and you instead just need to find ways to sell cars to consumers. Now I think it's, I think it's.

[Doug DeMuro]

A little bit more complicated.

[Kenneth]

Yeah. Also because a lot of Nissan's trouble right now is because they put way too high of incentive on cars fleet sales.

[Doug DeMuro]

I have a suspicion the reason that they sell some. I have a suspicion there are major contracts that are signed between suppliers, manufacturers and the fleet companies where they can't.

[Kenneth]

Sure. And there's also a lot of hurdles I have to jump through to become the CEO of a publicly traded company. So I think we're in a make believe world here.

[Doug DeMuro]

Well, some of these, I'm just, my point is some of these fleet sales aren't, you can't get out of them. You have to just go full steam ahead. I think the person wants a product decision for me.

[Kenneth]

Yeah. I, I, I would legitimately keep investing very heavily on quick rollouts of which is what they're doing a quick rollout of core competency products which in the US right now is fuel efficient and is midsize. Small SUVs. Midsize SUVs and I think lower cost, smaller. Like small, small SUVs are where I would focus all of my, you know.

[Doug DeMuro]

What the problem is? They already have. I know three very competent SUVs into three big segments which is the Rogue, the Pathfinder and the Armada are all excellent. Truly.

[Kenneth]

And the Kicks, which isn't bad.

[Doug DeMuro]

Sure. Jesus. But like okay, so, but there's not a lot of interest in those vehicles because the brand reputation is so significantly different. Terrible. Is there anything that can even be done? How did Mazda get convinced people that they don't suck? Like you know, like what did they do to get people. Did they buy off journalists? I'll take a handout from Nissan if they're, if they're interested.

[Kenneth]

I think that Mazda had the benefit of nobody knew who they were. So it's easy to build from zero than it is to build from.

[Doug DeMuro]

They had a kind of an average reputation. Listen, my mom strode into the Mazda dealership in October of 2003 and purchased a new tribute. And at the time, Mazda was not the strongest brand.

[Filippo]

Okay, Zoom Zoom. You know, Zoom Zoom Plus, Nissan already gave you your handout. They gave. Don't forget, they gave you the Z Sushi knife. Yeah, that's pretty good.

[Doug DeMuro]

And you know what? I am going to use it to slice Filippo's face off in exchange for a W221S600.

[Kenneth]

So all it cost to you is 10 grand?

[Doug DeMuro]

No, that sold for 24. That was a good $1,000 car.

[Filippo]

That was a good one.

[Kenneth]

That was a nice suit.

[Filippo]

That's what he wants.

[Doug DeMuro]

This is the end of our podcast. Kenan, do you have any. Any parting thoughts or beliefs?

[Filippo]

Well, I think Filippo should be the new CEO of Nissan. It sounds like he would really accelerate.

[Kenneth]

The job, but it's quite.

[Doug DeMuro]

My answer to that Nissan question is a completely different marketing strategy and. And adding a little bit more features per dollar to the cars.

[Filippo]

And my answer is close up and go home. Three different approaches.

[Doug DeMuro]

Go to the Honda. Go to the Honda merger.

[Filippo]

Let Honda just do it.

[Kenneth]

Finish.

[Filippo]

Finish it. Our best podcast we've ever done.

[Doug DeMuro]

Okay, thank you, everyone. This was a good pod. I would say it's mine and Kenan's best podcast we've ever done. Thank you, everyone, for participating.

[Kenneth]

Hard to argue that.

[Doug DeMuro]

No, it was actually. It was Filippo's best. And John the Elephant did an okay job, too. Thank you all and we'll see you next week.

[Kenneth]

And go watch that mini video. It's a good video.

[Filippo]

Goodbye, Sa.