Tesla Releasing a Cheap Car in 2025? Best Bargains in Enthusiast Cars!

Summary

Podcast Summary: "Tesla Releasing a Cheap Car in 2025? Best Bargains in Enthusiast Cars!"

THIS CAR POD! with Doug DeMuro & Friends! Host/Author: Doug DeMuro
Release Date: December 13, 2024

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Welcome to a thorough breakdown of the latest episode of "THIS CAR POD! with Doug DeMuro & Friends," titled "Tesla Releasing a Cheap Car in 2025? Best Bargains in Enthusiast Cars!" In this episode, host Doug DeMuro, alongside his co-hosts Kenan and Philippa, delves into various pressing automotive topics, ranging from high-end hypercars to market trends and reliability reports. This summary captures all the key discussions, insights, and conclusions, enriched with notable quotes and timestamps for reference.

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1. Aston Martin Valhalla Re-Announcement

The episode kicks off with a deep dive into Aston Martin's latest endeavors with their Valhalla model.

Kenan ([01:24] A):
"But they've re-announced it. And I say that because the Aston Martin Valhalla had been previously announced as a concept car back in 2019."

Philippa ([01:43] B):
"The last time they showed it, which was in 2021, they said over a million."

Filippo ([03:03] C):
"Aston Martin trying to keep the brand exciting. Just keep teasing."

The hosts discuss the recurring delays in the Valhalla’s production. Initially slated for a 2023 release, it has been postponed to 2026, sparking frustration among enthusiasts.

Kenan ([01:24] A):
"Then in '21 they re-showed it and said production would start in '23. You don't find this exciting?"

Filippo ([03:03] C):
"So that's four and a half millions. Any price figures on what this is going to be?"

The conversation highlights the skepticism around Aston Martin’s promises, noting that the promised power of 1,064 horsepower echoes that of their ZR1 model, which seems underwhelming given the hefty price tag.

Kenan ([02:29] A):
"This is a plug-in hybrid based on Mercedes AMG… I’ve been lied to before."

The limited production run of just a thousand units further exacerbates doubts about the car’s exclusivity and value proposition.

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2. Mercedes AMG’s Windshieldless SL63

Transitioning from Aston Martin, the discussion shifts to Mercedes AMG's new model that mirrors Formula One's structural innovations.

Filippo ([06:27] C):
"They gave it a stupid name… It's a true Barchetta."

Kenan ([07:05] A):
"The SL63 is $188,000 and the E Performance Hybrid is $200K plus."

The hosts critique Mercedes AMG’s approach to blending race-inspired features with consumer models, questioning the practicality and appeal of a windshieldless design for everyday use.

Kenan ([07:05] A):
"They’ve tried to tie into their Formula One heritage… but I think it’s a poor car that won’t sell well."

The comparison to historical models like the Sterling Moss is drawn to illustrate the challenges Mercedes faces in innovating while maintaining brand integrity.

Filippo ([08:34] C):
"It was only a two-year problem."

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3. Consumer Reports Reliability Ratings

A significant segment of the podcast focuses on Consumer Reports' latest reliability ratings, which have stirred controversy within the automotive community.

Kenan ([34:12] B):
"I used to read every car review the Consumer Reports did from like 2004 to probably 2012."

Philippa ([35:05] B):
"Consumer Reports decided years ago to just stop doing FCA."

The hosts express disappointment over Consumer Reports' exclusion of certain brands and the inclusion of technology-related complaints, which they argue skew the reliability perceptions unfairly.

Kenan ([35:38] B):
"A lot of the Rivian screens have some issues…"

Filippo ([36:39] C):
"Those who buy Rivians are happy to be guinea pigs."

The discussion underscores a divide between traditional reliability metrics and the evolving complexities of modern automotive technology.

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4. Maserati’s Struggles in the Luxury Market

Maserati's declining brand equity and limited model lineup are scrutinized, revealing the brand's struggle to stay relevant in a market dominated by SUVs and technologically advanced vehicles.

Filippio ([37:59] B):
"There's only one real option. I would just close it down."

Kenan ([39:09] C):
"Maserati has stronger brand equities than Alfa Romeo."

The co-hosts debate the potential strategies Maserati could employ to rejuvenate its brand, suggesting consolidation and rebranding to better align with consumer expectations.

Filippio ([40:20] A):
"I would have an everyman brand like Chevrolet… Maybe Alfa be the luxury brand and Maserati be a higher tier sports car brand."

Despite the MC20 being a promising model, its sales figures remain lackluster, indicating deeper issues within Maserati’s market positioning and product appeal.

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5. Market Report: The Cars and Bids App

The hosts briefly discuss the Cars and Bids app, highlighting its functionality and limitations within the current automotive marketplace.

Kenan ([46:54] B):
"You can download it on the iOS app store right now on your iPhone."

They note that while the app offers an innovative platform for car enthusiasts to engage with the market, it still relies heavily on traditional dealership processes, limiting its disruptive potential.

Filippio ([23:26] A):
"It’s an aggregator, like Autotrader…"

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6. Lucid Air Sapphire and Affordable Enthusiast Cars

A lively discussion ensues about the Lucid Air Sapphire and the broader theme of affordability in high-performance cars.

Kenan ([47:16] B):
"I have been defending this car to no end internally among coworkers."

Philippa ([49:58] C):
"It doesn’t make sense."

The conversation touches upon horsepower disparities between models, the visceral experience of driving versus mere performance metrics, and the future of affordable enthusiast cars.

Kenan ([51:50] C):
"You walk down the road and you're like Maserati. People like, damn Maserati."

The hosts advocate for the value proposition of models like the C8 Corvette, emphasizing their performance capabilities at more accessible price points.

Kenan ([50:37] B):
"MR in the high 40s."

Philippa ([56:35] A):
"Yeah, the nicest ones are in the low 30s. But you'll buy a Focus RS."

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7. Affordable Performance: Focus RS and Other Hot Hatches

The Focus RS emerges as a focal point in the discussion about affordable performance cars, with the hosts extolling its virtues over traditionally more expensive alternatives.

Philippa ([57:27] B):
"He would buy all my Focus ST around for your populace."

Kenan ([57:00] B):
"If you got last-gen Volvo V60."

The debate centers on the practicality, performance, and resale value of models like the Focus RS, the Fiesta ST, and the Subaru Outback, positioning them as superior choices for budget-conscious enthusiasts.

Kenan ([55:32] B):
"Why not buy something new."

Filippio ([56:15] B):
"I would just want a different experience if I were buying something again."

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8. Listener Q&A Segment

The episode transitions into a lively Q&A segment, where listeners pose intriguing and often humorous questions to the hosts.

Question from Sam Panamera:
"If Kim Jong Un made you his successor, which single car model would you force every North Korean citizen to drive?"

The hosts engage in a humorous yet insightful discussion, contemplating the practicalities and symbolic meanings behind car choices in unique geopolitical contexts.

Kenan ([58:04] A):
"I would just buy a Focus ST."

Philippa ([58:23] B):
"Nissan Sentras."

Filippio ([59:12] C):
"You’ll know that you have 34 horsepower."

Another question revolves around the Bauer Murray T50, a high-end hypercar, sparking a heated debate about its design, performance, and place in the current hypercar landscape.

Question from JDM Fan 345:
"If you were all given the money equivalent to your car collection, would you buy back all of your cars today or buy different cars?"

The hosts share personal anecdotes and preferences, revealing their loyalty to certain models while acknowledging the allure of diversifying a car collection.

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9. Final Thoughts and Closing Remarks

As the episode nears its end, the hosts briefly touch upon upcoming topics and tease future discussions, maintaining an engaging and personable atmosphere despite the extensive coverage of content.

Kenan ([72:30] A):
"Let’s drive the car and then we’ll report."

Filippio ([73:22] C):
"Goodbye."

They wrap up by acknowledging the depth of their discussions and the perpetual evolution of the automotive industry, leaving listeners eagerly anticipating the next episode.

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Notable Quotes with Timestamps

• Kenan ([01:24] A):
  "Then in '21 they re-showed it and said production would start in '23. You don't find this exciting?"

• Filippio ([03:03] C):
  "So that's four and a half millions. Any price figures on what this is going to be."

• Kenan ([07:05] A):
  "So the regular SL63 is $188,000 and the E Performance Hybrid is $200 or plus and there's going to be around there."

• Kenan ([34:12] B):
  "I used to read every car review the Consumer Reports did from like 2004 to probably 2012."

• Kenan ([35:38] B):
  "A lot of the Rivian screens have some issues…"

• Filippio ([37:59] B):
  "There's only one real option. I would just close it down."

• Philippa ([56:35] A):
  "I would just want a different experience if I were buying something again."

• Kenan ([58:04] A):
  "I would just buy a Focus ST."

• Philippia ([59:12] C):
  "You’ll know that you have 34 horsepower."

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Conclusion

In this episode, Doug DeMuro and his co-hosts Kenan and Philippa provide a comprehensive overview of the current automotive landscape, touching upon the excitement and frustrations surrounding high-end models like the Aston Martin Valhalla and Mercedes AMG's innovative but controversial designs. They critically evaluate Consumer Reports' reliability ratings, express concerns over Maserati's brand direction, and champion the value of affordable performance cars like the Focus RS.

The listener Q&A segment injects humor and personal insights, further enriching the conversation. Throughout the episode, the hosts maintain a balance between expert analysis and relatable banter, making complex automotive topics accessible to both enthusiasts and casual listeners.

Notable quotes with timestamps offer listeners the opportunity to revisit key points, while the structured sections ensure a clear and engaging narrative flow. Whether you're a die-hard car enthusiast or someone casually interested in the automotive world, this episode provides valuable insights and thought-provoking discussions that resonate well beyond the podcast itself.

Transcript

[A]

This episode is brought to you by Skinny Pop popcorn. Perfectly popped, endlessly delicious. Oh, so light and crunchy. Skinny Pop original Popcorn is the snack you've been searching for. Made with just three simple popcorn kernels, sunflower oil and salt. Snacking never felt or tasted so good. Perfectly popped, endlessly delicious. Give yourself permission to snack and pick up Skinny Pop original popcorn today. Come to me. Focus Features invites you to succumb to the darkness. From director Robert Eggers comes a masterpiece of horror. He is coming. This creature is a force more powerful than evil. It is death itself. Nosferatu we did R under 17 nanometer without parent only theaters Christmas Day special engagements in Dolby and imax. Hello and welcome to this car pod. I'm Kenan.

[B]

I'm Philippa.

[A]

And there's a lot to talk about today. Let's start with the news. Aston Martin Valhalla, Valhalla, Vulcan, Valkyrie. There's a lot of Aston Martins.

[B]

There are a lot of not, not like sold just in the lineup.

[A]

But they've re announced. They've re announced. And I say that because the Aston Martin Valhalla had been previously announced as a concept car. Back in 2019, it was going to have a V6 hybrid. Then in 21 they re showed it and said production would start in 23. You don't find this to be exciting?

[C]

I mean, it still doesn't exist yet.

[A]

Yeah, I know. So I know because in 21 they said it'd be here in 23. Well, now it's 24. They say here be here in 26. Maybe every two years they're going to say it's going to be here two years from now.

[C]

Aston Martin trying to keep the brand exciting. Just keep teasing.

[B]

Same car.

[A]

I will tell you this and this is something that I want you to be impressed by. Car has 1064 horsepower, just like the new ZR1. Same figure. 1064, same engine. Yeah, same engine. No, 1064 horsepower. And get this, this is where you're going to be blown. Your mind is going to be blown dry. Weight 3650. So curb weight probably 3800, 3900. It's a light, it's a lightweight. That's a joke. A thousand of them are going to be made. But you know, right now it hasn't been made. It is going to be a plug in hybrid.

[B]

It's a plug in hybrid.

[A]

V, it's a plug in hybrid based on Mercedes amg. But I agree with Kenan in the sense that I'm a Little reluctant to get really into the details because we've been lied to before, right?

[C]

I mean, yes, it's another halo car for Aston Martin, but wasn't the Valkyrie also that. And that's.

[A]

This is like sliding below the Valkyrie. The Valkyrie is a halo car on a level that like Filippo will never attain as part. You know what I mean? Like that's a four and a half million dollars you honored as a person. You will attain it. You won't have one of these. You will just like get to this level of humanity.

[C]

So hold on. So that's four and a half millions. Any price figures on what this is going to be.

[A]

The last time they showed it, which was in 21, they said over a million. Now they're talk. No, I'm sorry, that was in 19, they said it over a million. Then in 21 they said around 800. So you got to figure one and a half.

[C]

Well, I'm glad that they really are. They make a $4 million car. And if you're not that rich, if you only have. If you don't have three commas in your net worth, if you have two, then you can get this.

[A]

Well, that's, that's, that's how it works.

[C]

I know, but that's, it's just who I just don't care about like these ultra high end.

[A]

I also have really grown a little tired. Weary the another hypercar, another supercar, particularly from Aston Martin, which is a brand. When Ferrari announces an F80, I look at it, that's something you have to focus on. When Aston Martin announces yet another McLaren.

[B]

To one the dead.

[A]

It's not identical. The Valkyrie. You're talking about the original Valor or the Valor?

[B]

No, no. The original or the Vulcan Bahia? The original one.

[C]

Why do we pick the letter V? You know, in my family we name all our pets starting with the letter T. And they've chosen V. They've chosen.

[A]

V. It doesn't work as well with a car company because Ford found this out and they tried to do it with F and with eve with the SUV's they had to explore Escape. It was hard. Expedition Excursion. It's marketing makes it challenging. Like it's hard for consumers to distinguish. And as a consumer, I gotta be honest, I. It's Valhalla Vulcan Victory. I don't know. I don't. There's one called the Victor. Is it really the Valor Victory? Yeah, I don't know.

[C]

I don't know.

[A]

The point is this car is going to be a plug in hybrid, twin turbo V8, 10, 64 horsepower. It'll be cool. It'll be like the SF90 and the Revuelto.

[B]

What's the chance that Aston Martin goes bankrupt before this car crashes out?

[A]

I know everybody's all excited, like, oh, this is cool. It's like, I will never forget. I to this day. I was at the Mazda 6 launch. A car's not even on sale anymore, is it?

[B]

No.

[A]

I was at the new Mazda 6 launch. It might still be on sale 2007. And they were like, we're going to have a diesel in six months.

[B]

I remember.

[A]

And you know what? I'm still waiting. So I don't trust anything that any automaker ever tells me at any time, ever, until it is driving down the street in front of me.

[C]

I don't totally disagree. So I don't know. But yeah, to your point, it's worn the shine off of the really special cars because when there are a lot of something that are really special, it's no longer really special.

[B]

Right.

[C]

And I think that I'm sure it will be amazing. Right?

[A]

But all of them are amazing. There's so many places for rich guys to go fast.

[C]

I know.

[B]

And that's how you make money. But you gotta actually release the car and sell it.

[A]

The problem is you don't necessarily make money that way if you don't have something behind it. The F40 sells. Sold and sells now because it's like got this historical panache, just creating another thousand horsepower electric car or plug in hybrid. There's. It doesn't. And McLaren has discovered this. These cars aren't incredibly easy to sell necessarily. Just because they make a $2 million car doesn't mean it sells out. Doesn't mean there's a ton of people who want to buy it. And especially with an Aston Martin brand name, you got to kind of wonder they should have a V12 too, you.

[C]

Know, do what Ferrari is not doing, put a V12 in it and three pedals. Imagine if this had a V12 and three pedals.

[A]

Oh my God. People would be lining up to buy it. And by lining up, I mean they would sell out. It would be still hard, but it wouldn't be as hard as this, which will be to sell. Speaking of cars that won't sell, skip onto that open top Mercedes thing. Yeah, we'll get to these.

[C]

We'll get to all these stories.

[A]

Tell me about this.

[C]

So this is the amg, the Mercedes amg.

[A]

Pure Speed.

[C]

So in addition to trying to copy Ferrari by building a car with no roof, because this is a true Barchetta. They also gave it a stupid name.

[A]

They did.

[C]

But this car. So It's. It's an SL63 underneath. But what they've done is they've tried to tie into their Formula one heritage and put this bar now on Formula one car. It's called the Halo. The idea is that it's a piece of structure of the car. If you flip it over it will protect the driver. And you know what? Saved no it is genuinely saved lives. It's a really important thing in a Formula one car.

[A]

It's a very distinctive piece. Particularly attractive. Not attractive but when you. When you look at an F1 car it's one of the first things you.

[C]

See now in a Formula one car it's necessary. Now you'll notice that in the picture of this and for those of you who can't see it's pretty close to the headrest. Your head is like about here.

[A]

Meaning that I don't think that does.

[C]

A whole lot in the way of safety necessarily.

[A]

Well it probably is. Probably will hold the weight of the car is my guess.

[C]

But I don't think it's quite as effective as it is in a Formula one car. But nonetheless, regardless. Regardless the things about so but basically underneath It's. It's an SL63. Same 4.4L Twin Turbo V8 577.

[A]

So the regular SL63 is $188,000 and the E Performance Hybrid is 200 or plus and there's going to be around there.

[C]

No, there's speculation Mercedes Benz hasn't come out with an official price for you. They say around $300,000.

[A]

Around $300,000 for windshield list. Here's my problem with this vehicle and way I actually kind of like how it looks. I think it looks pretty cool. Here's my problem with this vehicle. We have learned from McLaren Elva, from Ferrari SP1 and SP2 and from what was the other Aston Martin did it A two. It had two like teardrop seats. I can't remember what it's called that these cars don't sell. Like I met a lot of tasteless rich guys and I filmed their cars and even they wouldn't want didn't buy the McLaren Elva. They were like no we're going to buy all the other ones. We don't want Elva. So why did McLaren why does Mercedes Benz think that a windshieldless car is the way to go?

[C]

I think because they can't sell SLS anyway right? So like eh. Do something different.

[A]

They did it once before.

[C]

Oh, yes, they did.

[A]

They had another. They had another expensive performance car windshield.

[C]

Yes, yes, yes, they did. And they said, pull it up.

[A]

We want to see it.

[C]

The Sterling Moss.

[A]

When Mercedes was trying to sell the SLR and for some reason had committed to a production of 3,500 units, which was about 3,300 units too many, they decided. Damn. They decided to come up with a windshieldless version called the Sterling Moss, named after famous windshieldless race car driver Sterling Moss.

[C]

He's an incredibly legitimate human being, man.

[A]

Didn't have a windshield, though. And so they came out with this.

[B]

It looks better than an slr.

[A]

It looks so much better. And honestly, when I see him and I. Which I don't see pictures of him, I'm like, you know, that's actually pretty cool.

[C]

It's so cool. I've never seen one in person. I would love to.

[A]

There's the Prince of Monaco's car collection has one. There's a museum.

[C]

Oh, they walk right up to it.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

Oh, well, okay. Next time I'm there.

[A]

They also have the bubble top LS600HL.

[C]

That's, you know, not really the same. The SLR was a supercard at its time. This is just an SL6.

[A]

It is probably fast.

[C]

Now they're only going to build 250 these, allegedly.

[A]

Oh, 250. Thankfully, that's probably a number that'll get it done.

[C]

One hopes.

[A]

If they're 300 GS, that's probably a number that'll get it done.

[B]

Probably.

[A]

What do you think is going to be a harder sell? The Aston Martin whatever we just talked about or the AMG Speed Shift?

[C]

Well, on this, I'll tell you what. They give you helmets that have an intercom.

[A]

No, wait, wait. There's helmets.

[C]

Yes, there are helmets. They're like, aerodynamically designed to, like, fit in the car.

[A]

Which, first off, if you got helmets, you don't need the bar to be structural. The helmet will support your weight. Second. Yup, yup. You just learned something.

[B]

Let me think about that.

[A]

Second. If you can talk to your passenger, then, like, that's great, man. You don't need a motorcycle. You can just get a speed track.

[C]

It's the pure speed.

[A]

I'm not gonna.

[C]

P is capital. S is capital.

[A]

There will be no situation under which that I refer to the car by that name.

[C]

What are you gonna call this thing?

[A]

I like speed shift, which is what they call the transmission. You still call that because they did speed shift, buddy.

[B]

They still call.

[C]

Yep.

[A]

I don't know. Yup. Okay. Well that's, that's going to be a poor car that won't sell well. But I got to say I think it's cooler than I wish that I thought it was because it's obviously a cynical attempt to sell some. Sell some SLs.

[B]

At least the front end looks better than the actual.

[A]

This is going to be sold in the United States of America.

[C]

I'm not entirely sure that it's going.

[B]

Also, it does have a windshield. Sort of.

[A]

Well, all the windshields. The Elba. That doesn't. Right.

[B]

It uses air.

[C]

No, it's optional. I believe in that.

[A]

And when you put the windshield on an Alpha, it just looks like it's in wild. Took us 4 million bucks. Or I mean use their 38 grand.

[C]

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[A]

Okay, what was our next news Story that we skipped over to Talk about a 4Runner supercars that are never going to sell. New 4Runner pricing has been announced and boy are people angry. The new foreign is going to start at some crazy amount of time.

[B]

That number is lower than what they originally said.

[A]

Well, 4770 is without destination and destination charges these days are like seven.

[B]

So 42 or 41, 99, whatever.

[A]

It's like 42 and change. But that's a base model. Four cylinder Basie base.

[B]

That's what the current one starts at.

[A]

It's about what the current one starts at. But the current one bases with a.

[B]

V6 that's been around for three decades and makes 200 horsepower.

[A]

We like our 4 liter, 200 horse. That's all we need.

[B]

It might be before 4Runner fans complain. I'm sure it's 240 or something.

[A]

No, it's a big number. It's like 3 million.

[B]

What is it? It's rare that a car increases cost by like 45 or whatever the starting MSRP is.

[A]

Okay, well.

[B]

And it's a four cylinder hybrid, right?

[A]

The higher trims are a lot more expensive.

[B]

Well, sure.

[A]

Now I did it. I did a dollar by dollar comparison. And some of the higher trims are like three to six grand.

[B]

Do they also have adaptive cruise control and.

[A]

Well, less. This is the thing. This is the thing. Number one, people are up in arms because it's more expensive. Are people upset by this? I will thrill that it's expensive. It is more expensive. The base. You can't compare base to base.

[B]

No, but you can get into a 4Runner for the same price. You can get into a 2024 Forerunner. That's been the same for literally 14 years.

[A]

14 years. Still has halogen running lights.

[B]

The last car and doesn't have adaptive cruise to stop. If memory serves, it has a five speed automatic probably. Oh, it might be a four. I don't know.

[A]

The backup camera, right. The backup camera is like they pay a guy to just tell you like a low. We age. It's cheaper than.

[B]

It's the same cost. I know that it's a smaller engine. I know it's a base trim. Base trim. But still that's notable that it didn't increase more.

[A]

The higher trims did increase like three to six to five to eight grand. It's much more expensive. However, there's a couple points I'd like to make. Number one, people are complaining about this also at Tacoma. Toyota's lost their minds. I was there and by I was There, I mean I ran a business where people were selling these cars when these cars were selling for that and Toyota wasn't making the money. Right. The TRD Pros 4 runners were priced at like 55 and people were flipping them for 65. Toyota was sitting there thinking, why are we not making this money? And it's hard to fault Toyota for going after money that the market said was there. How? The drawback is that Flipper market has died. And so in a world where these cars were selling for 65 pretty regularly, they aren't anymore. And now Toyota is trying to go into that price point. It was bad timing, but people are complaining about these prices. MSRP is in the past, the MSRP was too cheap based on how the market viewed the value of the car.

[B]

Also, there's the current Forerunner. Sure. There's a TRD Pro.

[A]

Yep.

[B]

It doesn't have nearly the level of off road equipment that the new Forerunner has.

[A]

It's probably about the same. Toyota doesn't develop new stuff. They got traction control, they got Multi Terrain Select.

[B]

They're doing more. They haven't really invested in the.

[A]

It's a much better vehicle. I haven't driven it, but I've been in it and been around it. It is a modernized version of the car that doesn't however, grand more doesn't seem insane, but that doesn't necessarily allow you to charge a lot more. Just modernizing the car. It's. It is expected as table stakes that you modernize the cars every few years.

[B]

That's fair.

[A]

Usually even a redesign, they don't upgrade up the price by three or five grand. My contention though is the market already showed that it was willing to pay the price. I think it still is.

[B]

Foreigners are still hard to get.

[A]

They. Well, grand Highlanders are hard to get.

[B]

TRD Pro and TRD off road, which are the top. TRD Pro, which is the top trim, is still hard to get.

[A]

It is.

[B]

Which is what the top trims are here.

[A]

Yeah, it's still relatively hard to get. I think it's more of a production constraint than a cost situation. But the point remains that if they're production constrained, why not bump the price up? Because people are going to still buy them and they'd rather make the additional. And I don't blame Toyota and I think it's totally reasonable if that's what the market wants. And people complain all the time about markups, but if people pay them, then that's what the market wants. Like that's how supply and demand works. Right. This is I went into Econ 101. This one named Bev taught it. Her name is Bev.

[B]

Kenneth, I will pay you. I will pay you $10 if you could name all of the SUVs in Toyota's 2025.

[A]

Oh, wow. Oh, my God. Can you?

[B]

Yeah, of course.

[A]

Okay, Ken. And. Go for it. I don't think you can.

[B]

Ten crisp dogs. Shockingly.

[A]

Really? Really.

[B]

What do you got?

[A]

What do you got? Give us a couple.

[B]

I recommend starting from smallest. Going to large or cheapest. Go to most expensive.

[A]

I will tell you one cut in front of me today that I would have forgotten in less.

[C]

There's no way I can do this.

[A]

You think you can name half?

[C]

No, I will do more outside the four Runner.

[A]

No, you got. You know, mine. Yeah.

[B]

Sequoia.

[C]

Six.

[B]

I will give you this.

[A]

Okay. Six. Apparently, there's more than six Dam. Good luck.

[C]

All right, so four Runner, Sequoia. Two. Yeah, I'm kind of there.

[B]

All right.

[A]

I don't know. Okay, wait, wait. Hang on, hang on. I'm gonna do it.

[B]

I'm gonna do it.

[A]

Come on.

[C]

I mean, I could do the same thing with you. Give me Ferrari's lineup. It'd be the same thing.

[A]

Can you name all of them? I bet you'll forget some.

[B]

I think I can.

[A]

Okay, go.

[B]

All right. I'm gonna try to start the Corolla cross. Yep. The RAV4. Yeah, I'm gonna call the RAV4 prime at the same thing.

[A]

Yeah. I agree. They don't, but I agree.

[B]

The Crown signet.

[A]

Oh, this might happen.

[B]

The Highlander. The Grand Highlander. The Forerunner. The Land Cruiser. The Sequoia. I do feel like I'm missing one.

[A]

Let's see.

[B]

No, it's all of them. They don't sell the CHR anymore.

[A]

That's all the ones that I can think of.

[C]

Well, that's riveting.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

That's all.

[C]

Congratulations.

[A]

Wait a minute. Go through them one more time. Oh, no, you did. You did. You said Highlander and Grand Highlander.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You got them all.

[C]

Congratulations.

[B]

Thank you. Do you have $10 for me?

[A]

No. Yeah, he's over here talking. Oh, wait, you know what? You forgot the regular crown, which has the ground clearance.

[B]

That's a great point.

[A]

Well done. I would have done it, too, but I'm surprised you got Crown Signia. Although I will say this. Pricing, kind of.

[B]

When the 4Runner was announced at the same time as they were doing first drives of the Land Cruiser, we were all kind of like, how are they splitting this to have a Land Cruiser and a GX and an LX 600 and now LX 700. Yep, the pricing kind of makes it work. Yeah, it's cheap enough.

[A]

We were worried it's priced like Land Cruiser. I don't understand.

[B]

How much is a Land Cruiser?

[A]

Land cruisers are like mid-50s.

[B]

Well, this start 15 grand less.

[A]

Yeah, but to equal equivalent you'd pay about mid.

[B]

I'm kind of assuming that in like 2027 they'll announce a smaller, you know what off road SUV this is, if you will.

[A]

I'm going to tell you this. When we drive around, we will know the real off roaders bought a 4runner and the guys who like to drive around and look cool bought a Land Cruiser because ultimately the Forerunner has more stuff. Beefier, better priced. But it doesn't have the name right, the name guys.

[B]

What if they buy a GX550?

[A]

I guess that's okay. They should have a Sequoia TRD problem. Okay, move on.

[C]

I'm kind of curious. One last point on the pricing for the first model year of the new one. I wonder what it compares like adjusted for inflation price model year of the first model year of the old one. How much does inflation play into the price of this car? That doesn't seem that crazy to me.

[B]

Did you know that in 2010 the Forerunner SR5 sport utility, which is the base.

[A]

Base trail.

[B]

Start at 30.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

That makes so I mean it feels like it's kind of 2010.

[A]

That's. That's only an increase of 30% since 2010. That's probably about what that probably about keeps up with inflation. Yeah.

[C]

So I think it's probably. I mean I was just thinking and.

[A]

It'S obviously a much better truck. I mean this is on leagues better than cheapest car.

[C]

Cheapest new car in America is 18 grand. Like things have kind of changed, you know, it's like I don't think that.

[B]

Is equivalent to 48.

[A]

Oh damn. We're getting a deal. Go buy a 4Runner. It's a bargain. Okay.

[B]

Cars in general have beat inflation. Like they're cheaper than.

[A]

Especially given what they offer. Yeah, anytime I drive for a video an 80s car, I'm like, I can't believe people paid the equivalent of like a hundred grand for this trash.

[B]

Yep.

[A]

It's like amazing. Yeah, 6M3GT is a very cool car.

[C]

But like not for what it costs. When it was you get into a.

[A]

New M3 or M4, it's like this is incredible to drive. That was like the plastic people bought that thing for that money.

[C]

And it was incredible. It was incredible at the time. That's how bad other cars were before.

[B]

When will you drive a Forerunner?

[A]

Spring March, I think they said. Cool. I can't wait. I truly can't wait. I think it's so cool.

[C]

Cool. Moving on.

[A]

I already made my opinion. Okay. Yeah.

[B]

All right. Ionic 5N is shown here because it's the only cool car that Hyundai makes. That's not true. Yep, but close. You can now buy a Hyundai on Amazon. Amazon.com Amazon.com Jeff Bezos website they announced a partnership like a year ago where you have to buy it. It's finally live.

[A]

Wait a second.

[B]

In select market.

[A]

Was. Was it Hyundai? You could buy at Costco.

[B]

Also Costco does have a bunch of manufactured programs, but you can't buy them through Costco.

[A]

Okay. So now you can go on theory.

[B]

You can go to Amazon, you can see all the inventory and then you can like legitimately start your purchase. You still have to go through a dealer. And as far as I can tell, it's only sort of available in our area because I tried. And just get sent to the dealer website.

[A]

Yeah. Okay. So there's. There it is. Okay. I'm interested at Hyundai of Temecula. And then you, you click on begin purchase.

[B]

In theory, you can get full pricing information and financing information on Amazon. I have not seen this to be true. And I've seen people talking online about how it just.

[A]

It's right here. It's right here.

[B]

It gives you to then the dealership to actually complete the purchase. Well, it's interesting.

[A]

They got rules about all.

[B]

You can also get $2,300 in Amazon lot of cards.

[A]

If you don't, you can't buy it. You can't not buy a car at a dealership. Right. They got rules. So that's why they take it back in and oh, here, buy my new.

[B]

The question like I, I'm glad they're doing this because I like innovation and how people buy cars.

[A]

Right.

[B]

Clearly we run cars beds which is an innovation how people buy cars, used cars. But like I given these cells go to a dealership.

[A]

Yeah, it's, it's, it's the concept. The automaker, the legacy automakers are seeing that what Tesla has Rivia and Russet have done, which is they got a kiosk at the mall and you order and then a little robot delivers it. Ish. And they want to do that but they've got all these dealer agreements and there's all these laws and stuff. They can't really do it, but here you go. 337amonth for a venue. Great.

[B]

Can you begin purchase?

[A]

Yeah, I can click on begin purchase.

[B]

And send you to a dealer.

[A]

Probably the dealer will call me for the next decade.

[B]

Correct.

[A]

That's signed up for a venue.

[B]

But it is nice that you can see across dealers a little bit more easily. Obviously, cars.com, car gurus, whatever, you can see that. But it's nice of it in one place and where you do all your shopping.

[C]

Do you think eventually it'll be available on prime and that will deliver? That'll. Yeah. That'll revolutionize the shipping industry. The car shipping industry, which is notoriously slow.

[B]

I bet that they have thought about this a lot.

[A]

Yeah, that would be amazing. That would be amazing. If I could go on. If I could go on Amazon and.

[C]

Order, like, have it show up tomorrow.

[A]

Or like, like book service.

[C]

Oh, well, that would be incredible.

[A]

Like, like, like I got my G Wagon. I want to get Amazon to come service it.

[C]

I'd be afraid of that.

[B]

But I think my main takeaway is that this is not that notable.

[A]

It's not that notable, but unless it does more, the concept of it is cool that you can shop on Amazon, but like, if you have to go through the dealer, if you have to do the whole process anyway, then it just. It's an aggregator, like, like autotrader, like.

[B]

Financing three or seven a month for that venue that's so dependent on your actual credit score, et cetera, you're not going to get the real info for a while.

[A]

So we're being lied to. More info being lied to about though, is.

[B]

Oh, yes.

[A]

No, go to the next one. I want to talk about the next one. No, no, the next one. Not the previous one there. No, the Mustang.

[B]

Yeah. I thought it was a great segue to the Model Q.

[A]

No, this is not a lie. You know how they know that? Because it's down to the thousandths of a second.

[C]

Yes, that's right. The Mustang GTD is laid down a time on the Nurburgring 657.685.

[B]

Doug did not know the Mustang GCD was.

[A]

No, I knew what it was. I knew what it was.

[B]

I just like, what is it, Kenny?

[C]

It's a track focused version of the Mustang. It's supposed to be their halo car. So it's a $325,000 Mustang. This is 815 horsepower. It is a multimatic suspension system, which is incredible. They had it at the Quail and I got to really look at it. It's beautiful Front engine.

[B]

No. Didn't they move the engine?

[A]

What for the gcd?

[B]

No. Wow. I imagine this great. I don't know what it is.

[C]

You're a Corvette guy.

[A]

Now that we moved the engine, shouldn't they. So Anyway, did a 657. 685 sub 7 minute Nurburgring lap time. That beats the courage GT Felipe, any thoughts about that? Same time as the 918.

[B]

Not unaccomplished.

[C]

Yes.

[B]

Beating the Courage. Barely unconscious.

[A]

The Courage is the greatest cover built though the kregt.

[C]

Let's take a quick look.

[A]

Ask Walter Rohr.

[C]

So look. So look. So here are the list on Wikipedia anyway of the top times that have been laid down by production car. So the AMG Project 1 takes the cake at 629 which is so wild. Ridiculous.

[A]

That is 10 seconds faster than this.

[B]

GT2 RS with the performance kit on a damp track. Wow.

[C]

I mean that's like in a completely different league of automobile.

[A]

Right.

[C]

But the Mustang is. I guess it's in the top 10. Technically it's down here below the 918. Same time. Basically.

[A]

Yeah. Because a lot of these cars are actually the same car with different drivers in different conditions. If you scroll up like GT3 appears a couple times. GT3R here appears twice. I guess one's a 9 and 2, one's a 991. But the point is low that. That. Yeah, it's radical. SR8 appears twice.

[C]

Now Ford has said that they're not done yet. They're gonna. They think they can do better and they can shave off more time. But it is remarkable that the Nurburgring is a gigantic racetrack with a lot of conditions. It can be raining in one part and dry and sunny in the other. Yeah, it's huge. There are towns within it.

[A]

Within it. Did you know that?

[B]

I did know that but like barely.

[A]

Like you go over bridges. Like there's like towns in. In the Nurburgring. Would you want to live there?

[B]

Can you buy a house there?

[A]

Yeah, you can't but like a person could let your kind of.

[B]

I mean EU citizen.

[C]

Filipo calls it the Nuremberg Ring, but it. Yeah. But nonetheless it is impressive that a Mustang is included amongst. To be honest with you. A lot of Porsches in Mercedes.

[B]

It's the fastest American car.

[A]

Fastest American car of all time. How much faster is it than the Ford gt? The one that they do that Multimatic also does Ford GT? Oh, it's not on here but my Ford GT did a 752 it took a minute. Holy crap.

[B]

What is the next American car on this list?

[A]

Some sort of Viper ACR Viper did.

[B]

701 in 17 and apparently that testing ended in tire failure resulting in a crash.

[A]

Third attempt testing ended by tire failure resulting in crash. So in other words the Viper can do a 701 but only two laps. Then the tires fail and you die. Amen.

[C]

That's all it needs to do. Lay down on time.

[A]

Yeah, that's true. Now I will say I respect the Mustang GTD greatly having just found out about it today. But I do not respect any car that loses to the Aventador SVJ which weighs more than a bunch of hogs. What does that mean about all of your cars? All of them are slower. And in fact the SVJ has the fourth best lap time ever against production.

[C]

Don't say the Countach couldn't really throw it down in period.

[A]

Dude, aren't you blown away that the SVJ, it's faster than a 911 GT2RS. It's faster than a radical SR8LM, whatever the hell that is. It's faster than AMG GT Black. The SVJ, you understand the SVJ is the big boy.

[C]

I know we kind of look. I don't want to say look down on it but like when I see.

[A]

What I'm like, you see that car as a. As a. Yeah.

[C]

Heavy, big, fat is what a beluga.

[A]

Whale of super cars. Yeah, I'm not. That thing weighs like amazing engine, amazing.

[C]

Era, great all wheel drive system and it's on. It was on traffic when they did the Hummer ev.

[A]

They benchmarked the SVJ for weight. They were like if we just gotta get it.

[B]

Unfortunately for them they were twice as heavy.

[A]

But yeah, they try. It wasn't a full roll cage in trophy or so we don't accept that as a real time. Well no, I really do. It's like the roll cage probably even added even more weight. Right.

[C]

But nonetheless impressive. Good for Ford.

[A]

Let me ask you a question. Go back to the lap time list and this is a serious question. I just want you to think about it. You don't have to answer.

[C]

Okay.

[A]

AMG Mercedes driver clearly is Mauro and Engel.

[C]

Engel. Yeah.

[A]

Okay. He got. He did the lap time in the MG1. He's good on damn Lamborghini's driver's Marco. You think they. You think they. You know, do you think that Morrow thinks he's faster because he doesn't have that extra letter?

[C]

Oh wow. Maybe. Maybe you think they Fame that carries the weight.

[A]

They fight about this?

[C]

No, I think they leave it on the track.

[A]

All right, what's our last news story? Is this some sort of Tesla thing? Yeah, didn't look that interesting.

[B]

We're gonna talk about this for 10 seconds. Apparently, according to a report from douchebag, Tesla will have the new. No, I'm going to say it weirdly on purpose. Deutsche Bank Tesla will. Will be revealing in Q1 a sub $30,000 with tax credit 37. 5. If there is not a tax credit anymore, EV, it will apparently be based on an existing platform and we will believe it when we see.

[A]

Can I tell you something about Tesla and affordable vehicles? I've been hearing my whole life that Tesla was about to release a. Like when they came out model three, there was going to be a 351001 never happened. When they came with cybertruck, there was going to be a $60,000. What they do is they announce the vehicle, they announce the price point. This is Tesla's strategy. They announce the vehicle, they announce the price point, they come out with more expensive ones and then quietly they cancel two years into production, the base one, saying they couldn't make it work. This has happened multiple times. So I don't. I don't buy.

[B]

Also, they haven't come up with a refresh model why yet. Although it will come out of soon Jupiter or whatever they're calling it.

[A]

Oh, Jupiter. I don't.

[B]

That might not be right. I can't remember if it was like they should they really be coming out with new product lines when they.

[A]

Well, the car. The cars are intended to be timeless. So like the Model S came out in 12 and it hasn't changed. And people are going to write it.

[B]

And be like, yes, it was one faceless and 16.

[A]

Right. Listen, if my wife thinks it looks the same, then it looks the same. You know what I mean? Like, like you and me know it changed because they put a grill on it or they took the grill off. Took the grill off, whatever. That doesn't count. Yeah, right. When a new.

[B]

Doesn't know that there's an updated model.

[A]

No, no, hold on.

[C]

Yes, I do. It was nicknamed the. It was nicknamed the Highlands, which wasn't actually a thing. We saw it. It was a wonderful car.

[A]

Yeah, but he's.

[C]

No, no, I can tell you. Especially the rears. Yeah, especially the rear.

[B]

Actually, what about the car does look a little different, huh? What if the car doesn't have on? Is it on?

[C]

They don't need to be on.

[B]

I won't sign.

[A]

All right, I can tell.

[B]

Regardless, I have a lot of. I'm holding my breath for this one because the Roadster came out in what year?

[A]

They announced that it was 19. They announced the Roadster in the fall of 19. Five years ago. That was the LA Auto Show. We were coming home from the LA Auto show and they announced it 5.

[B]

Oh, the Valhalla will be out before for the Roadster.

[A]

Then the Valhalla and the Tesla Roadster are in a race to see which. The funny thing is by the time those cars come out, they're not interested anymore. When the roadster. I did this video about this the other day. When the roadster came out. It was announced it was 1000 horsepower.

[B]

It's like whoa. Sub 2 seconds 0 60s right now.

[A]

A lot of stuff has a thousand horsepower. We had a Corvette in the office that some guys brought down on a truck that had a thousand horsepower. The Tesla roadster was like a space age future car with 1000 horsepower. Dudes are just bringing cars to us on trucks with a thousand horsepower. Now. Something to think about for you. He doesn't think about a thousand horsepower.

[C]

No, not really.

[A]

His max is 394. Am I right?

[C]

That's right. That's right. Between 4 and 500. 500 is all the more you need on the road.

[B]

Well, unfortunately, your FI doesn't have that number.

[C]

Nope, neither are you with any of your car.

[A]

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[B]

We'll talk about it next week.

[A]

We got legal things going on.

[B]

We'll talk about it next week.

[A]

The season assist was about. We'll talk about it next.

[B]

We'll talk about it next week.

[A]

It had nothing to do with anything bad. We've said, like I insulted the Atlas Cross Sport on the pod last week. No.

[B]

Did you really? I forgot about it. Just like I do about the Atlas Sport.

[A]

It's called the Cross Sport. Okay.

[B]

Is it really? Who knows?

[A]

It is.

[B]

All right.

[A]

You're thinking of Sport Cross. That's the Lexus.

[B]

We'll talk about the van next week.

[A]

We had a van on the site.

[B]

We'll talk about the van.

[A]

Sandbar or something that has Dragon body kit. They told us to take it down. Apparently, we're not allowed to discuss it.

[B]

We will next week.

[A]

Okay. Next I want to talk about Consumer Reports. This is a news story, but we're going to talk about it like we're talking about cars. Consumer Reports came out with their ratings of reliability which in my opinion, are very dull. And I don't care.

[B]

I used to read every car review the Consumer Reports did from like 2004 to probably 2012.

[C]

Dull and boring. You repeat yourself, we'll move on. Kel.

[A]

Surprise. Yeah.

[B]

Can you pull up the list?

[A]

Because Superports comes out with this list. It's unbelievable. They say that the Rivian is the least reliable brand.

[B]

Before we get into this, can I talk. Can I say something about Consumer Reports?

[A]

Yeah. They're going to connect.

[B]

So they're actually based in Yonkers, New York, but they do have a test track in Connecticut in a town called East Haddam, where I once lived.

[A]

Okay, that's not. Anyway, so they announced this. And Rivian is the lowest of all the reliable cars go down to the very bottom. There's Rivian hanging out with Cadillac. Dude, I'll tell you something. Where's Ram? Why are there only 22 brands? I want Ram. Ram would be. Is. So far it's off the list.

[B]

Agreed. Actually, you'll note the no FCA brand except for Jeep is on the list.

[A]

They don't do FCA Consumer Reports decided years ago to just stop doing fca.

[B]

Do you think it was when they renamed to Stellantis and not fca? Anyways, here's my issue with this. I love Consumer Reports generally but a few years ago, maybe 10 now they, they started to really include technology and complaints about the in car technology. And that meant that for a long time Lexus was dinged pretty badly and went down because it was bad.

[A]

Right.

[B]

So like it's changed a little bit from like will my car break down to is the infotainment easy to use?

[A]

Right. So reports used to send surveys to owners of the cars and after two or three years they'd get data. I agree with you. A lot of people, Consumer Reportsy type people probably don't understand or like Rivian's technology.

[B]

It might be bad. A lot of the Rivian screens have some issues.

[A]

The type of people who buy Rivians are happy to be guinea pigs and have their car break a little bit just to be like the first to cool. Yeah, yeah.

[B]

And like their big complaint might be about the tech or like the screen freezing whatever, which is a problem. But that's very different than my car.

[C]

Breaks out like stranded me, it has failed to transport me which is the primary function of a vehicle.

[B]

Which is why I like I think about these a little bit differently than I once did. Once I added that because it does it like I as a consumer care less about because like technology reliability than.

[C]

I'm looking at Subaru and I'm like those transmissions problematic.

[A]

No, Subaru's got it all figured out. Starlink. No, the ascent's good now there was a couple years of ascent where you were driving on the freeway and it would, it would stop and then catch on fire simultaneously. And if you were still in the car after the fire started then little men would come out of the cargo area and beat you to death. That was, it was only a two year problem also it was only a two year problem.

[C]

I question was, I mean like Land Rover is not on here.

[A]

They don't have, they don't. There's not a lot of brands. I find the whole thing to be questionable. Audi, there's truth to this.

[B]

And this is also where I would look for like will my mother in law have a problem with her car?

[A]

Right. And you wouldn't get your mother in law into a Rivian, I'll tell you that. Right.

[B]

She and her husband said something about looking at Land Rovers.

[A]

And what does your mother in law drive at the moment?

[B]

Subaru Outback.

[A]

Subaru Outback.

[B]

And she.

[A]

Number one.

[C]

She's talking about Land Rover.

[A]

Okay, we're not allowed. Kenan, give us your topic, which is about Maserati. And I love it. I love it. It's a great thought exercise.

[C]

Maserati, as we know, noted.

[A]

Bad company.

[C]

Yes. Make some.

[B]

Can we just go to their website? I don't even know what they sell anymore. The Grecale, the Levante and the.

[A]

And I saw Grecalli the other day on the road. That is just like a. Is canceled. Quattroporte is canceled. Levante is canceled. In. In an age where SUVs reign supreme.

[B]

Is this there?

[A]

This is it.

[B]

You can go to models on the top left.

[A]

MC20. Oh, it's there. In an age where SUVs reign supreme. Maserati. But only leftovers. They're not selling it anymore. It's not new. The Quadroporte. Same. They're not. There's not a new one. In an age where SUVs are everything. Maserati somehow managed to like miss on an SUV and they had to cancel it. Name it. SUV that's been canceled. Like, it's insane. Right?

[C]

This is the MC20. Oh, okay.

[B]

It's the convertible.

[A]

Don't do this.

[B]

I gotta do it.

[C]

I mean, like, come on. GT2, Stradale.

[A]

So anyway, they have three cars. So the question. Your question is.

[C]

My question is the brand is fledgling. They're really struggling here. We'll say. I think their brand equity is low. So my question is. It's a fact, not an opinion. What would you do to fix Maserati?

[B]

There's only one real option.

[A]

If you're bankruptcy and receivership.

[B]

I. I would just close it down.

[A]

Close it.

[B]

Not gonna lie.

[A]

Like, I mean, like if.

[B]

If you're still antis. Which owns Maserati, you have this n offer of Mayo which sells a car. The one that's also dodged is also the Grecale.

[C]

Maserati has stronger brand equities than Alfred Mayo.

[A]

No, you're wrong. There is. Maserati has a real future. It's just not being managed particularly well. What I would do, I would really start to think about what I would want to do about all these brands. I would.

[B]

You gotta consolidate.

[A]

I would. I would have an everyman brand like Chevrolet. I would have maybe Alpha be the luxury brand and maybe Maserati be a higher tier sports car brand. And that it just. Those three. Yeah. And no more Chrysler or Dodge or Ram. Whatever you want. Combine those into one brand. It probably can't be called Dodge because it has some difficult name recognition. Then again, you can't come out with a Chrysler Ram. They probably had these conversations. But the point is that's because they.

[B]

Split off Ram from Dodge for God knows what.

[A]

That was really a bad idea. The good news is they're all sold at the same dealership so it never mattered to anybody and nobody took the time to learn it. But Maserati, what would you make?

[B]

Like the MC20 has not had the response off road SUV.

[A]

Absolutely.

[B]

For their luxury performance brand.

[A]

Yes. I think G Wagon. You ever heard of the G Wagon? Do you know about the G? It's square and boxy and they're sold out for 77 years.

[C]

I think that. I know there's something to that. I think I. In my opinion, I think that Maserati should kind of do. This is a watch analogy that you might not get.

[A]

Oh boy.

[C]

They should do. They should be like the Tudor to Rolex. Rolex has a subsidiary brand that was called Tudor and they for a long time were. They were referred to as the poor man's Rolex. Everybody wanted a Rolex. But Tudor now has may start making more Thule watches that enthusiasts like myself actually want to own. And they have been tremendously successful. And you can't get a Rolex in the same way that you can't. It's not easy to get a Ferrari. Even if you have the money. You have to be on a list and you have to do all this stuff. I think they should build stuff that like people would actually want to buy and that Ferrari refuses to build. So my opinion, like if they want to do a, they, they want to stay sporty and build a sports car, fine. Give it a manual transmission, make it mid engine, make it something really cool.

[A]

Interesting that the brand, the main brand equity is with non enthusiasts.

[B]

Yeah. Like that's not uncharted care about but like you go to a person on the street like, oh, what a cool.

[A]

Luxury car, sports car. I think rebuilding this brand with enthusiasts would take herculean effort. Well, they've lost.

[C]

They're clearly trying. The MC20 was a clear try and it's a wonderful car.

[A]

It is.

[C]

But they don't sell it. When they do, it's for 2/3 of MSRP with 10 miles on it.

[A]

Yeah. Resale has been tough, but I think that enthusiasts are not the answer. The Maserati brand is flashy among regular people and enthusiasts have long ago kind of started to view it as a joke and not kind of started like when the grecale came out and almost everyone I see is a rental car. That was tough.

[B]

You had it too.

[A]

Especially though, like it was surprisingly good. It is too expensive.

[B]

Yeah, I. I agree with you, Doug, that it's not enthusiasts, that it's not enthusiast brand. They don't have no enthusiast cred. So they gotta just go for like luxury. But there's no brand that's doing that, that successfully. Mercedes maybe, but they're struggling.

[A]

No brands doing luxury. You know about Lexus, you know about Acura. Acura is killing it. Right.

[C]

Rolls Royce exists different level.

[B]

Like Jaguars. Not. Not doing well.

[A]

Well, no, but other thing.

[B]

No, I'm not to call my startup brand, but like Jaguar is not doing well. Genesis is not doing well. Who else has tried to go.

[A]

What about Mercedes Benz, BMW and Audi and Lexus?

[B]

So is that where you would put this? Because you kind of implied that Alfa Romeo would be in that category.

[A]

I know, but what can you do? You have to put it there. You can't actually make Maserati in a expensive brand. The cars don't sell to people who have a lot of money. They sell to people who have some money.

[B]

To be fair, Hyundai and Kia have existed by having very similar shared product lines.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

So you could have an Alfa Romeo and a Maserati brand that have Alfa Romeo.

[A]

I don't think there's. I don't think there.

[B]

The luxury.

[A]

I don't think there's enough daylight there. That they're Italian. They're both Italian. They neither of them have great niches.

[B]

Alfa Romeo could go enthusiast.

[A]

I don't. Yeah, it could go enthusiast. Maybe that's the plan.

[B]

Like, by the way, you do, maybe.

[A]

You do an Alpha into the enthusiast brand. You give them a car like the MC 2020 and you send the grecale and stuff to. To Maserati or the Grecale is too sporty.

[B]

They need to go more comfortable.

[A]

Right. That would, that would go to Alpha and. And you, you do like a three row for Maserati and you do like luxury vehicles for Maserati and maybe that's where you'd go with it.

[B]

Can you scroll down on this list of vehicles? What is at the bottom?

[A]

GT2 stroller Folgore. That's the electric Gran Turismo.

[B]

Thank you.

[A]

So that's the thing. They claim to have 28 models, but they actually have three.

[C]

They just lied.

[A]

The old trick.

[C]

But that's it. That's interesting. Alpha would suit the enthusiast brand better.

[A]

I would argue though that just having talked this through. You can't actually do this.

[B]

109, presumably the only Ghibli that they have.

[C]

You can buy it on our site for literally 10% of that.

[A]

The problem is, now that we've talked this through, I really don't think there's room for Alfon Maserati. I think you make Maserati sort of an enthusiast luxury brand like a BMW and go that direction and keep Chrysler as the Everyman brand or Dodge and that's it. That's all you do. That's it. And Jeep.

[B]

I think Alpha has more cred than monster.

[A]

That's wrong on levels that it's actually physically difficult for me to explain.

[B]

I do see more Ghibli car enthusiasts.

[A]

Who like brown diesel station wagons. Yes. That's true. To regular people. You walk down the road and you're like Maserati. People like, damn Maserati. I think you could keep all.

[B]

We should talk. I do not show the thing I was about Genesis.

[A]

Fewer brands is better. Dude, look what Ford did. When I was a kid. Ford had Ford, Lincoln, Mercury, Jaguar, Land Rover, Aston Martin, Volvo. Yep.

[B]

You're missing a few.

[A]

I probably am. Right. And you know what? They trimmed it down to Ford and Lincoln. That's it.

[B]

And they really should have trimmed it further.

[A]

Oh, he doesn't like Lincoln. I love Lincoln.

[B]

I'm legitimately saddened when I think about how poorly Lincoln sell because I think that their SUV lineup is fantastic.

[A]

Yeah, I wish they had put more investment into the Lincoln brand. They could legitimately compete if they tried, like GM has been trying with Cadillac for a long time. Lincoln tries a cake.

[B]

The Lincoln products are good.

[A]

Yeah, they are. Maybe the Coach store. Yeah, that was interesting. This episode is brought to you by Manscaped, the global leader in men's lifestyle and grooming. Every man knows the unbeatable feeling of a fresh barbershop shave. And the holidays are here. Time for you to look your best and win best groomed at a family dinner. You may have noticed my recent dabbling with facial hair. Well, like choosing a vehicle, there are many options out there for shaving products. I choose the Manscaped Chairman Pro package, the newest offering from Manscaped. Trust me, it's like Rudolph for your face, guiding you to a smooth irritation free shave. Whether you're after that daily silky smooth finish or you prefer to maintain a rugged five o'clock shadow. This has you covered. You have the skin safe four blade foil for that close, smooth shave. When you're looking to go completely clean and you have the Skinsafe stubble trimmer for when you want to keep a bit of that rugged look. Both heads are designed with skin safe technology to help reduce razor burn and irritation so your skin feels smooth and comfortable after every shave, reducing redness or discomfort. Plus, one of my favorite quirks and features of the Chairman Pro is that it's waterproof. Yes. You can use it right in the shower. And also it simplifies cleanup, too. Just a quick rinse under the sink and you're all set. Get the Chairman Pro today and experience a shave that's as smooth as you deserve. Get 20% off and free shipping with the code [e-mail] that's 20% off plus free shipping with the code [e-mail] okay, we gotta talk market report. There's a lot of market report market report items to discuss. By the way, the market report is brought to you by the Cars and Bids app. The Cars and Bids app like Cars and Bids, but an app.

[B]

You can download it on the iOS app store right now on your iPhone.

[A]

You can download it on the iOS app store right now on your iPhone or your iPad. You don't even need an iPad. You have an iPad. If you have an ipod touch. Yeah. If you even have one of these, you can do it. Although we call that just use your browser. Can you do it on a computer?

[B]

You cannot download the app on the computer.

[A]

Yeah. It's a missed opportunity for cars and bids.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Can I start this, please?

[A]

Yeah, please.

[B]

Can we talk about the sapphire?

[A]

Yeah. What's the deal? We got a sapphire on this site. It's a Lucid Air Sapphire, which there's.

[B]

Not been any public auction results that I've seen for Lucid Air Sapphire.

[A]

Yep.

[B]

I have been defending this card to no end internally among coworkers.

[A]

It's cool.

[B]

And people don't get just how cool it is. And I find that frustrating.

[A]

You know what, though? Farah made a point. I was on his pod yesterday.

[B]

Yeah. When does that come out?

[A]

I don't know. He made a good point, though, about this and all the other ones. The super fast one and the non super fast one, when you're driving them.

[B]

Yeah, same.

[A]

They're the same.

[B]

But you would know that you have 1,234 horsepower.

[A]

You would know. But, like, okay. Oh, you don't. So you drive the 850 horsepower one and you're like, way behind.

[B]

I know, but it's just. It's cool.

[A]

Like. Like, his point was, like, it's rare that I have.

[B]

Power is cool, but it's cool.

[A]

His point was like a V6 charger versus a hellcat. Like, you drive those around. It's different at all. Like, everywhere. You can feel it, you can hear it. That's not.

[B]

Isn't the Sapphire kind of different? Isn't there? Didn't you drive, like, the suspension setup is.

[A]

It is. The Sapphire is a tremendously exceptional car. But I thought that about the Dream Edition that I drove also.

[B]

Well, sorry, did Dream Edition or Dream Performance Edition? Because we discovered last week that there's about 150 horsepower difference.

[A]

I had a gold one. I had a gold one. They were both. I went up to their. To their facility.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

In the bay. I drove a gold one around. Yeah. That's what I remember.

[B]

Performance. No. Was it 1001 horsepower or was it 907?

[A]

It was gold. Does that help that you're proving his point?

[C]

It doesn't make a difference.

[B]

I think that's truly, though, it is my point.

[A]

Like, they're all. These are all amazing cars. And yes, the Sapphire is the coolest of cars.

[B]

And it has better suspension and it does sportier.

[A]

It drives better. It's better.

[B]

It's just cool, though. I want people to recognize and know that it's cool. Now, unfortunately, everybody walking by in the street will just think that you have a $700 a month lease special. But you will know that you have 34 horsepower.

[A]

I agree that it's totally cool. It is an amazing car. It was awesome to drive. I think that about basically all lucids. I think they are bargains. I'm not sure what happens to the company long term, but they are incredibly good. Nice.

[B]

Gravity is not the best looking suit.

[A]

Oh, wow.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Anti gravity over here.

[C]

Nice.

[B]

Kenan, think about it this way. Your M5 has. You think it's powerful, multiply that horsepower.

[A]

By three, bring that elongate your M5.

[B]

Hood, and then 52 more horsepower.

[C]

The difference is when I drive my car, I know it's special. That's the difference. I don't need to.

[A]

That's an interesting point. This car has the same level of visual distinction from a regular lucid. Yeah. Like wheels and.

[B]

And probably more suspension up there.

[C]

This is the M5. When you see the M5 and A540 driving on the road, for instance, like, you can tell, like, the whole stance is different.

[A]

You can sort of tell this. I will say in terms of car, electric cars that like, an enthusiast would look at and say, wow, this is.

[C]

One, I would say, like, the m like the M5 it was louder than the 540. It had, you know, exhaust and ITBs. Yeah, the throttle response. Let's not even get into that. It was a different experience to drive in though. And it also had a hot. It wasn't just the power, it was. The handling was better.

[B]

Well yeah, that's true in this too.

[A]

Yeah. But the difference is this is electric.

[C]

And it's just like it's already fast as hell as it is and so like it really pound performance.

[A]

Well, it is cool. It is interesting and it will be interesting to see what it brings.

[B]

We have noted MSRP is G50.

[A]

Okay, pull up C8 corvettes because this is. I've started noticing this too. I want to talk about some cheapies. Cars that have gotten cheap. Cheap. There was a long time where cars weren't cheap. They're back. Go down. We've been selling C8 Corvettes. Not the Z06 but regular C8 Corvettes in the low 50s.

[B]

We had one that RM in the high 40s.

[A]

These cars are getting affordable and you know it's interesting. They make a ton of them. You see them everywhere. They're not as special as they were when they came out but for like two solid years. These red sticker or above. The performance level that this car offers at this number is a cheaper modern mid engine car.

[B]

Like this is not just a Corvette.

[A]

Like Yeah, Alfa Romeo 4C barely achiever. Yeah, I know.

[B]

Like this is an insane amount of performance.

[A]

BMW i3.

[B]

Oh, interesting. I would call them rear engine.

[C]

Calm down.

[A]

BMW i8.

[B]

Is this engine in the rear? I don't know who.

[A]

No one knows.

[B]

It's rear engine. Man.

[C]

That's impressive. This first person put almost 60,000 miles on it.

[B]

The reality is that prices are going down because people have driven people and they're getting older.

[A]

I mean this is a 40. This is now a 4 or 5 year old car. C8 on honestly is due for a refresh which is hard to believe. Like it's getting there.

[B]

That's a good point.

[A]

It's already getting there when we still think of it as the new Corvette. That's how I always tell people that.

[C]

Still looks great, awesome.

[A]

But damn, it is a total bargain when you think about the performance level. 500 horse with dual clutch. It is fast. It looks. Some people love how it looks, some people don't. It's certainly striking. It looks modern.

[B]

It looks like a exotic sports car.

[A]

It looks like an exotic sports car in a way that Corvette didn't sense. The C2. Right. I mean it's cool. And it's these things get in the 50s, 40s. These are going to follow Corvette. They're depreciating less than regular Corvettes, but they're going to get there. Are they? Yeah, they are something. You'll be able to pick one up for 26.

[C]

Yeah, he won't.

[A]

Yeah, no, he'll be like, you know, in three years he'd be 22. Right, exactly. What do you spent on the subject of cheap cars? Because that's a great one. Look up Focus RS please. You know about this?

[B]

I've been watching it.

[A]

Why are you. Why are you buying?

[B]

I've thought about it.

[A]

You see this, Kenneth?

[C]

Yeah, I have. That is so cool for 20G for.

[B]

A nice blue one.

[A]

Especially to me, a 20 grand Focus Performance. Focus is an ST, which is probably now a $9,000 car. Like this is. This was like the king car when I. When this came out. It was like they're bringing the RS to America. This is so cool. It's so amazing. It was so fast. It looks so good. It looks so cool. And by the way, this isn't even some crappy, horribly modded off color stupid one. This is the one.

[B]

That is the one.

[A]

This is it. If I wanted one, and I do, I would get this.

[C]

Almost 100,000 miles. They're getting driven for sure.

[A]

But go back. It wasn't an outlier.

[B]

No, no.

[C]

They're all around this wall. That means the head gasket's been replaced.

[A]

20,000. 22,000. These are both one owner cars.

[B]

The nicest ones are the 30s.

[A]

The nicest ones are in the low 30s. But you can get for low 20s. They'll buy you a Focus RS. This is a fast fun. Do we even need the STI anymore? We got this.

[B]

Yeah, for sure.

[A]

Cool. Why'd you get one of these?

[C]

Drive around for 20 GS in that N. I can't.

[A]

People would think you're cool.

[B]

He would hate it.

[C]

Just like you'd like being an S class too, so. And a Kayan Turbski. Both also very cool. But no, I have always thought. And they're incredible to drive. Even the ST also is so much fun to drive. I cannot believe that they're finally, finally getting like.

[A]

Those are 20C. Eight Corvettes are 50 and new body S classes almost are 16. 5.

[B]

For 40 grand you could buy a Focus R and a new body and.

[A]

A new body S class. 40 G's will put you in A. That's a two car solution for 40,000.

[B]

U.S. i can't think of anything about it.

[C]

I. I really do want, like, you know, when they killed this car off, I was so sad because like you said, finally we got an RS and they were selling. They sold well. People loved them. And enthusiasts beloved by journalists and enthusiasts alike. Like, and they sold them. And then Ford was like, nah.

[B]

Well, they decided not to bring the Focus at all or the Fiesta at all to the US which is why they killed it. Yep.

[C]

But it's. It's just such a shame. I wish it had kept going because we finally. They can't. Like, it was even better looking. I know. I wish they hadn't. But nonetheless.

[B]

Yeah, also, by the way, but it's.

[C]

Okay because you can still get one of these and they're really enjoyable cars.

[A]

This one, this one down here. 30, 000 mile, one owner car sold for 25.

[B]

Three years ago, I sold a base Ford Focus hatchback with a stick with 110,000 miles for six grand. How long till we get to these?

[A]

Won't go down to that level, but WRX STIs do indicate where these will go, which means they'll go into the mid teens to low teens. Low, like, they're close.

[B]

And you're right. STs are 10.

[A]

STs are 10. That's the bargain car. If you're watching this right now and you don't already have a Focus stuff, go.

[B]

Honestly, I agree with that. Everybody's practical.

[A]

I get for ten grand. It's fun. And my answer is often like, honestly, 10 grand. If that's all your budget is, you should really be focused on just trying to find a normal, rational, reliable car. Disagree. Go back. I want an st. I want five to ten. Oh, my God. Well, that's not the real.

[B]

No, no. There you go.

[A]

ZX4.

[C]

But look at that.

[A]

This is a $9,500 car. This is. This is an amazing.

[B]

I would also. That's post faceless. I would have spent nine grand.

[C]

No accidents. Also, 103,000 miles.

[A]

I love driving Focus STS. The steering is so quick.

[B]

Would you rather have a Mark 7 GTI or a Focus ST? They're the same price.

[A]

Focus unquestionable. They were stick only. They had the cool wheels. And it just felt like some European thing we weren't supposed to get. Proven by the fact that they gave it to us for a few years, then they pulled it right back.

[C]

Yeah, exactly. My friend Steven had one and it was so much fun to drive.

[A]

They were also a lot more powerful than the Mark 7 GTI. Didn't these have 252?

[C]

I think that's right.

[A]

Yeah. That's good. Yeah. The GTI had 200 hundred or 220. Who knows?

[B]

Who knows?

[A]

Not too.

[B]

Yeah, agreed. And I loved my base.

[A]

You floored it in this thing and it went straight. Even though. I'm telling you, this was fast. That trade. That engine handle was so radent. It was like. It felt like a V6.

[B]

The wrestling st. Yeah.

[A]

I can't. Oh, man.

[B]

What a Fiesta STS, the same price. It's very annoying.

[A]

I would actually make the argument, though, that the Fiesta is just as fun. Want get one of these? And fesses are more. I just told you to buy the Focus. No.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

There's been a lot.

[B]

The Fiesta C is known to be a better driver's car.

[A]

It's more fun.

[B]

But the Focus st, you can actually.

[A]

Drive places and it's much faster and it's legitimately much more practical.

[B]

I legitimately drove 50,000 miles in a regular Focus hatchback. And it was comfortable. It was great on the highway.

[A]

It's. I'm sure it's at the same price level. I don't know which one. I would.

[B]

Incredibly fast as are more expensive.

[A]

For now, on anyone who comes to me saying they got ten grand to buy a car, what should I get? The answer will 100% of the time be Focus St? You know how Miata is always the answer? No, no Focus st.

[B]

I'm keeping with my answer, which is if you got Last gen Volvo V60.

[A]

And if you got 20 V60.

[B]

Yeah, they're like 8 to 12.

[A]

Why does he do this to us?

[C]

Because he's just. But if you have 20, 25, man. Ford Focus RS.

[A]

This is a manual hot hatch. Volvo V6 is like a car you drive to your Scandinavian Christmas.

[B]

I want more space for those who.

[C]

Can'T say, Filippo's wearing a Scandinavian Christmas party sweater.

[A]

I'm wearing a sweater. We got to get on to the questions. We got to get onto the questions. He's wearing a sweater. It's 84 degrees tonight. This week feels Christmassy. And so he's got to put time. We got to know the questions. The questions are brought to you by Kenneth. Kenneth. He does things I do. If you want to ask a question, go to carsandbids.com click on the community tab and then there's a post there that says, ask questions. And then you ask your question and we'll answer the question no matter how brilliant the question is.

[B]

Ooh.

[A]

Thank you. Nice first question. From Sam Panamera. If Kim Jong Un made you his successor, which single car model would you force every North Korean citizen to drive? This was the highest upvoted question. I haven't often thought about what I would force my impoverished population to drive. Obviously Akira.

[B]

So I think that how many, like what car can you import? Many, many, many of.

[A]

Well that's the thing. So here's what you got to think to yourself for cheap, what deal could you strike? You know what, like if I went to Akira, I was like, hey look.

[B]

No, that makes answer clear. Nissan Sentra.

[C]

Yeah, it's gonna be Nissan Sentras.

[A]

Why? Because they, no, they're not desperate for how could they scratch my back eyes. Like if I went to a cure and said, hey, I'll give you some.

[B]

You get NSX for yourself.

[A]

Maybe you give me 10, 12 NSXes. Or if I went to Stellantis and said, hey look, all my Dodge Hornets, I'll do it, no one else will, but I will. I'll buy a hundred thousand of them for my impoverished people. But you gotta make me a night vision 456 Estate. You go, you go to, you obviously.

[B]

Go to Alpha, you get the tonale, which is the same car and then you say that all your positions drive Alphas and then you get an 8C for yourself.

[A]

Yeah, at 8C. If I was a, if I was a despot, an 8C is not a hard buy. It's like they're like 200 and they're pretty available. Night vision four, five, six. Venice. Yeah, Venice. Let's be clear. I want plebeian crap or a sedan.

[C]

A four door which by the way.

[A]

Was also called the Venice. Did you know that? So there was, it was the 456 Venice. They come out with this one off car and they just. The 456 Venice and the 456 Venice Estate.

[C]

Creative.

[B]

It's an interesting question because you'd want something that people could work on and be as reliable. You don't actually want to give them a tonality because they'll break down and then, then what's the point?

[A]

You want to seem like a benevolent.

[B]

Well, no, just you don't want to deal with it, you know, I don't.

[A]

Want anything that I couldn't get something from the automaker. So you're saying you want Toyotas. I don't want. What can Toyota give me? Well, if you get a GT one, that's not enough.

[B]

Some people would say the lfa, but you're not into that.

[A]

I don't want no lfa. Maybe they put a manual transmission in it and make it attractive. I would take an LFA. Not possible.

[B]

Of course, 100,000 cards is what they sell in a but week.

[A]

Yeah, but I'm doing a one off order here. I'll keep the factories running for a week.

[B]

I think I buy up every focus st around for your populace. Yeah, why not?

[A]

Okay, that's insane. Maybe that guy was buying all the Broncos on the site and stuff. Yeah, we thought shipping them maybe.

[C]

Yeah, yeah.

[A]

We didn't look into it though, but. Okay, next question from Verity. What happened to Alanis? We had Alanis King. She, she worked with us, she made videos with us. We did a complete rehash of our content and we don't do the same videos we used to and we kind of brought it all in physically in studio. Alanis lives out of the state and she worked with us for a couple of months and we liked her and it was, it was a reasonably good situation but we changed what we do and that, that changed. And so Atlantis. I mean in a world of content creators, there's kind of always a going and coming. We had Zach Clapton do some content for us too. I don't know if that's going to continue. There were other people, weren't there? Yep. And now it's gone. But we love Alanis. I still love Alanis. I follow her on everything and I think she does great content. I seriously, truly mean that. But instead we have Filippo now. Next question. What is the worst car that currently costs over $100,000 from BW Smith? We just looked on the Maserati website. Maserati had already answered itself.

[B]

Is it already more or less overpriced than SL55AMG?

[A]

No, dude, that Ghibli was 109. Three put in a Ghibli to make it worth 109.

[B]

Good point.

[A]

What could they put $109,000.

[B]

No disagreement.

[A]

I mean that's the. Yeah, that's the answer. Next question from JDM Fan 345. If you were all given the money to equivalent to your car collection, would you buy back all of your cars today or buy different cars? I buy the exact same cars. Except. What? White Forge.

[C]

Yep, I see.

[B]

Well, my, my car collection is worth. Conservatively.

[A]

Yeah, but 20. You're the only one of us who answers that you would buy different cars if both of your cars were gone. Today you buy completely different cars.

[B]

I sometimes daydream about a tree falling on the car because then it would.

[A]

Force him to make a decision.

[C]

I specifically avoid parking.

[B]

It would allow me to make it.

[A]

It would force him for once in his life, I make a decision.

[B]

But I. I can't justify the transaction.

[A]

Remember when we went up to Rancho Santa Fe? That was eye opening for me. We had an hour to pick cars, and at minute 56, me and you had three of the four picked. And we were upset that we had made so many choices. And he's sitting there like, I stand by my choices.

[B]

By the way, I. I had a great X550E. I had a 997.2 and I had some other car, but it was great.

[C]

We both had GT3s. He had a Bentley. I. Yeah, I know.

[A]

I had a 997 GT3. I had a Bentley. And he's over here, like, so anyway, the point is, Filippo doesn't know how to make choices, but he would buy different cars.

[B]

I would. It's more that I don't want. I can't justify changing cars, but I would choose different cars if given the opportunity. Sorry.

[A]

If given the requirements, you know, you.

[C]

Can sell it and another individual will give you money.

[B]

And therefore you have to deal with a bunch of. There's a bunch of work.

[C]

I like.

[A]

I like all of my cars enough.

[C]

You run an auction.

[B]

I would just want a different experience if I were buying something again.

[A]

Yeah, so get a different experience.

[C]

You get a different experience and you say nah, because you just.

[A]

It's. I like my experience. No, no, I like my experience.

[B]

I just don't want to deal with the changing. But if something else happens and I have no choice, if I have to go out and buy a car anyways, I may as well buy something new.

[A]

This is the problem with Filippo. You have learned it and heard it right here. Problem with Filippo. And by the way, Kenan and I both answered yes, unequivocally. I wouldn't even consider it if all them burned. Tomorrow, I would start the search for a new Countachi.

[C]

Unfortunately, I would have three days of mourning, but then I would.

[A]

Of course there'd be days of mourning a year. There'd be a. There'd be a morning period that ends on the car's birthday.

[C]

Oh, that's a long time for me.

[A]

Because it just happened now. It is. But if it happened in the spring, it'd only be a six month warning period where you took the bus.

[C]

Oh, that would be awful.

[A]

Okay, wait.

[B]

So can I ask a question?

[A]

Okay.

[B]

We're talking about your sports cards. You have a couple daily drivers.

[A]

Yeah. I would still get an all terrain. But would you?

[B]

When you were waiting for your Defender, you bought a car for a year.

[A]

Yeah. Would you.

[B]

Would you do the same thing of like. Like, I want to find the right Sequoia. I want to find the right alteration.

[A]

No, the right Sequoia. We already know what it is. It's pretty easy to find. You could negotiate me a deal by getting zero off.

[B]

You wouldn't be on the lookout for a specific spec. You would just buy the suit.

[A]

No, I'd get another white one.

[B]

And what if there's one for sale?

[A]

There is. They're more common now because there's a couple more model years that have happened free. 450 all terrain. Same deal. I might look for a new one, but prime. I want to order my new one through my buddy Amir at Mercedes Benz of Temecula. Shout out to Amir. Okay, but I'm not ready yet. Alec Metz 2011. Given the opportunity to drive it, what do you fly overseas to review The Gordon Murray T50? No. Next question. That just doesn't.

[C]

Doug hates that car. It is.

[A]

Yell at me. I'll take it.

[C]

In the 1990s, McLaren introduced a car called the F1. And you probably would have looked at him and like, oh, yawn. It doesn't say Ferrari on it. And you would have turned down that opportunity too. And you'd look like a complete numpty. And here we are. It's. The designer of the F1 has built another car with one of the most exciting naturally aspirated engine currently for sale. Nah. Now for him. Admittedly, Doug does not like to travel. He wouldn't go to Los Angeles to review this, I don't think.

[A]

No, you'd go to LA for.

[C]

You go to la for a T4? You wouldn't go like, did you go to Phoenix?

[A]

I'd go to Phoenix if Kenan came with me.

[C]

Oh, please, I'll go.

[A]

But he's not allowed to come to the car review. He's only, like, keeping me company in the hotel room.

[C]

Never mind. God.

[A]

Look, my thing about the T50 is I just. There's so many modern hypercars and it's.

[C]

Yeah, but this one has a manual and it's an nav 12. It's what we want.

[A]

Valkyrie's got an nav 12.

[C]

Yeah, and it's a tip. This is a six speed manual.

[A]

I got the Countach manual. This one, like, I don't. What's. What's new? What's different? It. Look, Gordon Murray made it.

[C]

That's the Point. It's. The point is that it takes that analogness to its final conclusion.

[A]

I just. They're touting it like it's the greatest thing in the world. It's a little weird looking, to be honest. It is weird looking, to be honest. It's also a little like McLaren F1 derivative. Like. Oh, you like that one? Here's this one. Look, it looks the same. It has a family.

[C]

There are concessions that had to be made at the time after Gordon Murray.

[A]

Because you know who that is.

[C]

It's like, what's his company? Yeah, but you say Enzo Ferrari was German because he named all his cars after.

[A]

Let me tell you something. There's no. There's nobody named Ram. All right? Sometimes you just name a company because. Because that's what you're trying to, you know, accomplish, not. You're not naming it after yourself. I mean, there was a guy named Dodge, Chrysler, you know.

[C]

Yeah, you miss a point.

[A]

Okay. I don't know. I just haven't got. And then there's a dot in the name. I know that's silly, but like, it really is a car that it seems like they have come out with to try to appeal to these geeky car people. That's you.

[C]

You are a geeky car person. That.

[B]

That's us.

[C]

That's what we do. This is. You will drive it one day. And then just like all these other cars you've bemoan driving that you drive.

[A]

It's like.

[C]

It's the greatest thing I've ever driven. The P1 Zonte. You thought, oh, it's so stupid. I have to get in a race car. You came back, would not shut up about it. It will be the same thing with the T50. You'll mark my words. I'll put this day on my calendar. Wanted to.

[A]

Oh, you can't.

[C]

But it's. You couldn't get one if you wanted to. I think, what do they cost?

[A]

I think. I don't know. Started it.

[C]

I want to say it was like. I want to say it was like two and a half.

[A]

So this is another problem.

[B]

2.8 million.

[A]

Why would I spend 2.8 on a car from an un. From a new brand? That's like.

[C]

Because the car it's derivative of is 20.

[A]

Yeah, but I could get an F50 for 2.8. I could. I could call up.

[C]

You cannot get it too.

[A]

I could call a facade. Today he's. He's in Moscow. He's a little melted to the ground.

[C]

No, you cannot get an F50 for 2.8. That's outrageous and ridiculous.

[A]

They sell low threes.

[C]

That is that 2.8? I didn't think so. It's a couple hundred thousand dollars.

[A]

My point starts at 2.8. You said that's probably. You gotta put. Yeah, and then you got to put on all these options that are.

[C]

It starts there.

[A]

Well, you have to get the bejeweled seats because the patrol seats are really cool. They look like. And then you gotta get the stitching on the stage.

[C]

No. So just get in the car.

[A]

Silver. That's not true.

[C]

That's not true. As you know, four options and most.

[A]

Of them were silver.

[C]

Get in that car and shift your own gears and listen to the V12 that sits behind you.

[A]

I just can't get into it. I just, I, I. This is going to be a controversial opinion that people are going to hate me for, but I just don't think it's cool. I just don't like. When I think about what a cool car is. It doesn't hit me that the GMA T50, the Gordon Murray Academy T50 is cool. It doesn't feel cool.

[C]

It's so cool.

[A]

It feels like.

[C]

Try having heard it go around the racetrack. It's.

[A]

Well, all right. Maybe I need to get in it. They keep telling me that I can't. They're like, we'll get you in a T33. I guess they're trying to sell those.

[C]

They're like, we can't get you T33 looks.

[A]

But I could, I could get a T50 to drive. There's a few people.

[C]

Yeah, I think at some point you will. I look forward to the day that that happens and you tell me that I was right and it was.

[A]

Maybe you're right. I'll take it. I take it I'm into the T50. Vaguely. I don't know, I just.

[C]

No, be true.

[A]

To who?

[C]

Yourself? You hate it. That's okay. You're wrong.

[A]

Pointed so often by these modern cars.

[C]

I understand. But this has a manual.

[A]

Is that the only thing we're looking for? The 765LT, if it had a manual.

[C]

18,000. I think it's an insane car.

[A]

You get my point though.

[C]

You get my point. This is like. We talk bemoan the analog driving experience in those cars. Okay, that's it.

[A]

Question for you then, Mr. T50. Suddenly you got three mil. What are you buying?

[C]

F50.

[A]

Okay. What do you buy it after the F50?

[C]

A really nice F40.

[A]

Yep. What do you buy after that? 53 mil GTB. You get a courage of T. Get a v. Get a GTV.

[C]

GTV 275.

[A]

Oh, you get a counta for a lot less. Well, I'm not saying you have to spend every penny of it. What the hell?

[C]

That's what I was doing, thinking cars that are worth it around three.

[A]

Three cap.

[C]

Oh, three cat. Well, it's free. The F50 would be all.

[A]

Yeah, okay, F50. But after that you get an F40. Then after that you get three mil.

[B]

Just keeps happening.

[A]

It's really infinite money. We're on your list is what I'm saying. How far down is a T50? It ain't.

[C]

It's what you for three. For cars that are worth around that, it's probably in the top 10. You're right that it's not like in the top three or five.

[B]

Interesting.

[C]

But it's up there that.

[B]

What else is 3 million?

[A]

Like what?

[C]

No, no, I can't. I don't fit.

[B]

What? What? Like Pagani is $3 million. What? Koenigsegg.

[A]

I don't know anything about Koenigseggs.

[C]

I wouldn't even know.

[B]

But what are you competing against? The Utopia, which is also a stick.

[A]

That's. That's true. Why are you talking about Utopia like you're talking about T5.0 Gordon Murray Academy? Why are you talking about Utopia? Utopia is a stick. It's also 3 mil. Why are we talking about Utopia? You got some Pagani anti bias here. You just into Gordon Murray? No, they're both sticks.

[C]

Because the Utopia looks exactly like the car that. So what?

[A]

They both look cool.

[C]

It's not a natural aspirated V12.

[A]

Oh, for God's sake. Where's those goal posts so I can't see them? They've been moved so far.

[C]

Hey, I don't like turbo lag. And you know what? The T50 doesn't have turbo lag.

[A]

Give me a break. It's 16,000. You think it doesn't have lag? If you're at the 2,000 mark, you're gonna get to 16. You think it just does that?

[C]

It does. It revs incredibly fast. You know nothing. You haven't read any of the I drove Valkyrie.

[A]

It's fast, but 12,000rpm takes some time to get to. And by the way, they figured out turbo lag. They solved that. They solved that in the XJ220.

[C]

You think that Pagani has clocked those turbos to the point where there's not no lag?

[A]

Why don't you think they have Pagani.

[C]

Makes I saw the fire extinguisher go off on the car on accident when.

[A]

It was sitting in Hong Kong. And it was the best car I've ever driven in my life. It was the best car. Yeah.

[C]

This only came out 25 years ago.

[A]

30 years ago. Proves this utopia should be better. This was not intended to be a.

[B]

10 minute question, yet here we are.

[C]

Well, you're infuriating. You know nothing.

[A]

All right, that's the end. We have to stop here because we've gone way, way over. There's probably ads all over this podcast, which I apologize for. And I apologize for Ken and too. Or maybe for myself. I don't know.

[C]

Apologize for yourself. I think people agree with the car.

[A]

Let's get the car. Someone Give us a T 50.50 Gordon Mary Academy and we'll see if I'm right or if you're right.

[C]

Yes, please send us one.

[A]

All right, let's do that. Let's drive the car and then we'll report.

[C]

I'll ride around. We can, we can all three go in it, but can sit there and look bored.

[A]

It's one of them three seaters. Yeah.

[C]

Yeah, it is.

[B]

Ah, like, like the new Kia Telluride.

[A]

Would you be into the Speed Tail.

[C]

If we had a manual?

[A]

He's, he's not wrong. Ugly.

[C]

Did it look like a salamander?

[A]

Is the Telluride steering wheel still on the left? Right in the, in the T500 Murray Academy, it's on the middle.

[B]

I know, but I, I. To appeal to the other category of.

[A]

Our listeners, can I tell you something? The McLaren Speed Tail. McLaren Speed Tail. You can charge on a charging pad.

[C]

I know.

[A]

Can you charge the Gordon Academy?

[C]

I didn't need it because it's an NA V12.

[B]

Fair point.

[A]

I would accept a plug in hybrid if it meant that I could have a charging pad. Thank you all for watching. Sorry about that Volkswagen van situation.

[B]

We'll talk about it next week.

[A]

We'll talk about it in a few months.

[B]

Next week.

[A]

And absolute pleasure. Mercedes Pure speed. Go pick one up.

[C]

Our best podcast yet.

[A]

Our best podcast ever, Gordon Murray Academy.

[C]

Goodbye.