The Downfall of Nissan is Here! New Apple CarPlay is Bad? Best Investment Cars? - THIS CAR POD! with Doug DeMuro & Friends!

Summary7 min read

Podcast Summary: THIS CAR POD! with Doug DeMuro & Friends! Episode: The Downfall of Nissan is Here! New Apple CarPlay is Bad? Best Investment Cars? Release Date: May 23, 2025

1. Apple CarPlay Ultra Integration in Aston Martin

The episode kicks off with an in-depth discussion about Aston Martin's rollout of the new Apple CarPlay Ultra. Unlike the standard version, CarPlay Ultra offers enhanced functionality, including integration with the vehicle's gauge cluster and climate controls.

Doug DeMuro (01:07): "Apparently they're rolling out a new Apple CarPlay in Aston Martin models and it has more functionality. It's finally going to come to the gauge cluster which Apple CarPlay has been sorely missing for a long time."

Filippo (02:19): "It's exciting that you can now actually use Apple CarPlay for your full experience. You can use Google Maps. You don't need to use Google Maps and Mercedes MBUX navigation. You can just do one."

However, Filippo and Doug express concerns about the potential over-reliance on screens, with Doug fearing a future where car interfaces are entirely managed through smartphones.

Filippo (04:19): "The automaker wants the data. They want to be able to sell the data."

The conversation also touches on manufacturers like Tesla and GM opting out of CarPlay, preferring to develop proprietary systems to retain control over user data.

2. The Downfall of Nissan

A significant portion of the episode is dedicated to Nissan's financial struggles. The company is planning to cut $1.8 billion in expenses in North America over the next two years amid substantial losses.

Filippo (06:18): "Nissan... is cutting $1.8 billion in expenses from North America alone over the next two years."

Doug DeMuro (07:07): "They lost $4 billion. Think about that."

The losses stem from miscalculations in lease trade-ins and misaligned incentives, forcing Nissan to drastically reduce investments in future technologies and product development. Filippo speculates on potential partnerships, mentioning Toyota's interest following Honda's withdrawal.

Filippo (10:00): "They've done a full revamp of their dealer incentive program to presumably cut costs for themselves."

Despite the challenges, there's optimism that Nissan might survive by exiting certain markets and focusing on more profitable segments.

3. Wienermobile Race at the Indy 500

In a lighter segment, the hosts discuss Oscar Mayer's plan to race Wienermobiles against each other at the upcoming Indy 500, replacing traditional race cars for this event.

Doug DeMuro (11:38): "They're going to race Oscar Mayer Wienermobiles... and one will win."

The six Wienermobiles represent different regional hot dog styles, including Chicago, New York, Seattle, and more, adding a quirky twist to the traditional racing spectacle.

Kenan (13:00): "It is served with cream cheese."

Both hosts share personal anecdotes about encountering Wienermobiles, emphasizing the fun and uniqueness of the event.

4. Lexus IS500 Ultimate Edition: Possible End of the Line

The conversation shifts to Lexus and the IS500 Ultimate Edition. While not officially announced, there's speculation that this could mark the end of the IS lineup.

Kenan (16:34): "Boy, isn't this sad? They're making the Lexus IS500 Ultimate Edition... which some people believe will be the end of the line for the Lexus IS."

The hosts reminisce about past Lexus models, discussing the IS500's performance and its place within Lexus's broader strategy.

Doug DeMuro (18:49): "The end of the line, yet another V8, you know, sports sedan thing."

Despite the apparent discontinuation, there's a nostalgic appreciation for the IS series, underscoring its 25-year legacy and personal memories tied to the model.

5. Toyota's EV Refresh and the New BZ

Toyota unveils a refresh of their electric vehicles, rebranding the BZ4X to simply "BZ." The updated model boasts significant improvements, including a larger battery and increased power output.

Filippo (20:01): "It's a lot more competitive. They have a notably larger Battery. Range is up 25% for the big battery model. Power is up."

With a 0-60 mph time of 4.9 seconds and a horsepower boost, the new BZ positions Toyota's EV offerings more competitively in the market.

Doug DeMuro (21:02): "We've been making fun of this car on this podcast for like two years. This is actually all those changes were the things that we were complaining about. They actually addressed them."

The refresh also includes enhancements like a new larger screen and a heat pump, aligning with modern EV expectations.

6. Toyota RAV4 Refresh: Embracing Hybrid Dominance

Toyota announces a significant refresh for the RAV4, transitioning to an all-hybrid lineup. The new models feature various trims, including the GR Sport plug-in hybrid, which collaborates with Gazoo Racing for performance tuning.

Filippo (23:53): "It's all hybrid now. There's no longer a non-hybrid powertrain."

The GR Sport trim offers 320 horsepower, tuned suspension, and stylistic upgrades, aiming to make the RAV4 more appealing to enthusiasts seeking both efficiency and performance.

Doug DeMuro (25:34): "The suspension has been tuned by Gazoo Racer so it might actually be a well handling Rav4. 320 horsepower is pretty good."

The revamped RAV4 is expected to solidify its position in the market, combining Toyota's reliability with enhanced performance features.

7. De Tomaso P72: A Promising Revival

The hosts delve into the revival of De Tomaso with the new P72 model. After six years of speculation, De Tomaso confirms deliveries will begin this year. The P72 features a supercharged Coyote V8 engine, manual transmission, and an impressive 700 horsepower.

Kenan (28:03): "The De Tomaso P72... a supercharged Coyote V8... 700 horsepower."

Despite initial skepticism about it being vaporware, the P72 promises to deliver a blend of classic design and modern performance, rekindling enthusiasm among car aficionados.

Filippo (29:12): "It's a combination of very exciting elements and for a startup, effectively a startup brand, I mean it's resurrecting an old brand but like it's exciting for it to have the enthusiast things of an engine and experience a manual transmission."

8. Market Report: Used Car Trends and Investments

The Market Report segment highlights notable trends in the used car market:

AMG GT 4-Door Performance Models: Prices have dropped to the low $60,000s, making them attractive investments for enthusiasts.

Doug DeMuro (54:30): "This automobile... maybe the best handling four-door car I've ever driven."
E46 M3 vs. New M5: The classic E46 M3, particularly convertibles, is appreciating in value, with some models fetching upwards of $30,000, despite being older vehicles.

Kenan (57:04): "This One sold for 23,700. I was just like, I can't believe that that's what it sold for."
BMW S54 vs. S52 Engines: The S54-powered M3s are commanding higher prices compared to their S52 counterparts, reflecting their enhanced performance and desirability.

9. Audience Q&A

Listeners submitted a variety of car-related questions, which the hosts addressed with enthusiasm:

Worst Naming Structures in Car Companies: Both Audi and Mercedes-Benz were criticized for inconsistent and confusing naming conventions.

Filippo (67:30): "Audi has been the most variable, and that makes it bad."
Investment Vehicles with Unlimited Budgets: Discussions revolved around iconic cars such as the Ferrari F430 versus Lamborghini Gallardo, and the early NSX versus the Viper.
Standout High School Cars: Personal stories were shared about memorable cars from the hosts' high school days, emphasizing the impact of unique or powerful vehicles.

10. Personal Anecdotes and Experiences

The hosts shared personal stories, adding a relatable and engaging layer to the episode:

Doug's Cross-Country Drive: Doug recounts driving his Toyota Sequoia across the country, praising its reliability and ruggedness.

Doug DeMuro (47:36): "It was fine. I drove across the country in my Toyota Sequoia. I now have 12,000 miles on my Toyota Sequoia."
Kenan's Rolls Royce Phantom Experience: Kenan discusses his admiration for the Rolls Royce Phantom, highlighting its unparalleled comfort and craftsmanship.

Kenan (40:19): "The level of soundproofing, the quality of the materials... It's such a pleasure."
High School Car Memories: Filippo and Kenan reminisce about the standout cars from their high school years, reflecting on the diversity and uniqueness of these vehicles.

11. Closing Remarks

The episode concludes with birthday wishes for the hosts, reflections on the podcast's journey, and acknowledgments of their sponsors, Cars and Bids, Brunt Workwear, and others.

Filippo (80:20): "This podcast is brought to you by Cars and Bids, the best place to buy and sell cool cars."

The hosts express gratitude towards their listeners and hint at exciting topics for future episodes, maintaining an engaging and personable tone until the end.

Notable Quotes

Doug DeMuro (01:07): "Apparently they're rolling out a new Apple CarPlay in Aston Martin models and it has more functionality. It's finally going to come to the gauge cluster which Apple CarPlay has been sorely missing for a long time."
Filippo (06:18): "Nissan... is cutting $1.8 billion in expenses from North America alone over the next two years."
Kenan (16:34): "Boy, isn't this sad? They're making the Lexus IS500 Ultimate Edition... which some people believe will be the end of the line for the Lexus IS."
Filippo (21:15): "The suspension has been tuned by Gazoo Racer so it might actually be a well handling Rav4."
Doug DeMuro (26:57): "Toyota is all about core competency, and this is a core competency vehicle."
Kenan (40:19): "The level of soundproofing, the quality of the materials... It's such a pleasure."
Filippo (56:05): "We sold a 1999 Estoril, blue like over dove gray interior. Very nice car."

Timestamps:

01:07 – Introduction to Apple CarPlay Ultra
06:18 – Nissan's financial cuts
16:34 – Lexus IS500 Ultimate Edition
21:15 – Toyota RAV4 GR Sport trim
26:57 – Excitement for the new RAV4
40:19 – Rolls Royce Phantom experience
56:05 – Market Report on BMW M3 sales

Note: For full contextual understanding and additional details, listening to the complete episode is recommended.

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Transcript669 lines

[00:01]
Doug DeMuro
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[00:02]
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Daunting task unless you have a partner like Shopify.
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[01:03]
Doug DeMuro
Hello and welcome to this car pod.
[01:06]
Kenan
I'm Kenan.
[01:07]
Filippo
I'm Filippo.
[01:08]
Doug DeMuro
And let's start with the news, beginning with Aston Martin and Apple CarPlay Ultra. So this is like regular Apple CarPlay, but it's ultra. Do you understand, Filippo?
[01:19]
Filippo
Ultra Good.
[01:21]
Doug DeMuro
Apparently they're rolling out a new Apple CarPlay in Aston Martin models and it has more functionality. It's finally going to come to the gauge cluster which Apple CarPlay has been sorely missing for a long time. And also it's incorporating other things. I watched this demo and incorporates climate control, which I don't really know that I'm into, to be perfectly honest.
[01:41]
Filippo
No.
[01:42]
Doug DeMuro
As a guy who's defended screens for a long time, I think that might be even too far for me because the last thing I need is to go into CarPlay and then slide over on the app screen next to Spotify to find the air conditioner.
[01:53]
Filippo
Right, right. Knobs, man knobs.
[01:56]
Doug DeMuro
Or at least a separate section for climate controls. But anyway, it's rolling out in Aston Martin models. Do we have any thoughts about this?
[02:03]
Kenan
I have a. I'm sure it will be great. I'm sure the integration into various vehicles will be wonderful. Why did they start with Aston Martin? Of all manufacturers that they could launch with, they chose an obscure British sports car and luxury car manufacturing.
[02:19]
Doug DeMuro
Filippo just told me that it's Because Aston Martin and Porsche have some sort of early deal with them. They probably paid him a lot of money.
[02:25]
Kenan
I mean that's great. But how did Aston, like, what were they doing? Starting alphabetically or something? Like, I just don't. It's just a weird show because.
[02:34]
Doug DeMuro
Because then they would have started with Acura. I presume they chose Aston and Porsche because rich people and iPhones are inextricably linked.
[02:43]
Filippo
Oh, interesting. I suspect that Aston was willing to do anything for any publicity story, period. The reality is that. So I'm really excited about this because one real limitation of Apple CarPlay, especially if you have a modern car, is that you can't do it any of the gauge cluster. And a lot of modern cars have like navigation in the gauge cluster and it showed this. And like often now in carplay you can show what's playing in your gauge cluster, but you can't use the other features. And it's exciting that you can now actually use Apple CarPlay for your full experience. You can use Google Maps. You don't need to use Google Maps and Mercedes MBUX navigation. You can just do one.
[03:19]
Doug DeMuro
Isn't it kind of crazy that like pretty soon, presuming this trend continues, which has been very successful, like the car will basically just come with like the screen will be for settings.
[03:32]
Filippo
Yep.
[03:32]
Doug DeMuro
Right. And like basically everybody will just use their phone for all of the vehicle things for both the gauge cluster and the infotainment screen. Like that's already basically how it is for the infotainment screen. Like my Toyota just doesn't has very limited functionality until you use CarPlay.
[03:50]
Filippo
What'll be interesting is a few manufacturers, Tesla most notably, but Rivian also and GM as a whole have said that they're not using Apple CarPlay. They're not going to offer Android Auto, which is the Android version of it, because they think they can build a better experience. The subtext there is that they actually just want all the data of your usage of everything in the car. So I think the big tension will be do you want to allow a third party, Apple, Google, whoever to take that over and you then lose a bunch of data about your customers, a bunch of access.
[04:20]
Doug DeMuro
I don't know how much tension there's been.
[04:21]
Filippo
I think that oh much legitimately there's a reason that gm, one of the largest manufacturer cars, doesn't offer anymore.
[04:28]
Doug DeMuro
Yeah, but people overwhelmingly adore.
[04:30]
Filippo
Everybody wants it. It's my wife's only requirement when thinking about a car.
[04:35]
Kenan
Give the people what they want.
[04:36]
Filippo
Yeah, right.
[04:37]
Doug DeMuro
I think people routinely choose convenience over privacy and they'll continue to do that.
[04:43]
Filippo
Well, the point is that the automaker wants the data. They want to be able to sell the data.
[04:47]
Doug DeMuro
Don't you think there's also a component where the automaker doesn't want to either have to pay Apple or get in bed with Apple or all that. I mean, GM feels like they can do it and just do it all in house and they don't have to do this stupid thing with Apple.
[04:58]
Filippo
And there's more controllability there, right? There's a lot more that you can do when you control all of it. If you are a talented tech company and given that Apple is it, you.
[05:08]
Doug DeMuro
Don'T have to bend your designs to. Because ultimately if they're integrating climate control, does that mean that'll only really function on cars that don't have a separate climate control screen? Or do you then have to make your climate controls functionality and buttons work with Apple CarPlay? Like, we're gonna have to see that as these cars roll out with this feature.
[05:25]
Filippo
It's a lot of work and requires a lot of computing power.
[05:27]
Kenan
Thinking about it from a second owner, third owner perspective though, is kind of interesting. It's like, how is that going to. How's the function of that going to age?
[05:35]
Doug DeMuro
Well, I'm sure it'll be great.
[05:37]
Kenan
Yeah. But it's like. But eventually, like at certain points I think it will become like the car will become completely unusual because the interface can no longer interface with your new phone that's in your pocket.
[05:45]
Filippo
Oh sure.
[05:46]
Kenan
Or if we go away from phones altogether, that's kind of a pie in the sky thing.
[05:49]
Filippo
But like, does your car interface with your phone, Kenan? Yes, only cause you added the Bluetooth, the blue bus. That's right. You've had to retrofit to make it possible. That might be.
[05:57]
Kenan
I didn't cut a single wire. It does plug in. That's true.
[06:00]
Doug DeMuro
But your point is that it's probably going to be retrofittable in this new thing and I think that that's probably true. Plus, if it's really just app based, it should just kind of work. Okay, but I guess we'll see.
[06:07]
Kenan
We'll see.
[06:08]
Filippo
I'm excited for it though, legitimately. Like incredibly excited.
[06:11]
Doug DeMuro
Filippo. Can't wait. What is our next news story? Bring it on.
[06:14]
Kenan
Ah, Nissan.
[06:16]
Filippo
I get to talk about Nissan.
[06:17]
Kenan
Filippo. Nissan.
[06:18]
Filippo
Nissan, which will eventually have CarPlay Ultra 20 years from now, is cutting as it has announced a plan or announced that they are making a plan to cut $1.8 billion in expenses from North America alone over the next depending on your sources. The reports are a little unclear but over the next two years they're going $1.8 million billion with a B. So they lost last year $4.6 billion and they lost, they lost $4 billion.
[06:48]
Doug DeMuro
They lost $4 billion. Think about that.
[06:51]
Filippo
Sales were a tiny bit up in North America alth where Nissan sales were five years ago.
[06:56]
Doug DeMuro
And do you think this is an honest question but do you think if I started with Nissan's financial position at the start of last year and just spent money like the, do you think I could have lost $4 billion?
[07:08]
Kenan
I was just thinking, I think the Sultan's looking at going damn, that's pretty impressive.
[07:12]
Filippo
The reality I read a really deep dive into Nissan's financials recently and a lot of their losses come from lease trade ins where they had the wrong residual value and where the value fell more than what they expected and that ends up being a huge loss. When they buy back all those cars, they resell them, they lose a substantial amount of money. So a lot of their, their losses last year were in part at least related to prior decisions that, that they made around sales and around incentives. That has really hit them. But you can't just say no, we're not going to buy back the leases or we're not going to accept the leases back. That's not how that works. So they're forced instead to cut massively from everything else. What the their North American chairman said.
[07:54]
Doug DeMuro
Yeah, this is great quote. Kenan, have you heard this quote yet?
[07:58]
Kenan
I think I have.
[07:59]
Filippo
Christian Manure, the North Nissan America's chairman said what doesn't sell cars, what doesn't take care of the customer and make money for the company. We're going to freeze, postpone or cancel.
[08:07]
Doug DeMuro
Now my personal opinion would be that probably should have been their, their ethos 10 years ago. If it doesn't sell cars, take care of the customer or make money, what, what were they doing that was not those things? I wonder.
[08:24]
Filippo
Their cost cutting plans include certainly some jobs at factories. There's a few factories that they're going to cut a bunch of jobs from. They're going to offer more voluntary buyouts to salaried employees across the board. And fundamentally they're just not going to invest in. They're going to invest in getting products out to market quickly. They're not going to invest in what comes next with the next generation platforms, powertrains, battery tech, other tech, etc. Kind of pare down to what they.
[08:47]
Doug DeMuro
Can say that's how you grow a brand, is you reduce investment in the future. Well, when I worked for an automaker coming out of the recession in 09, you may remember it, and at one point we had to, one of the cuts they made was you could no longer send a next day FedEx without manager approval. Do you think Nissan is at that level yet?
[09:16]
Filippo
Oh, I think they've been at that level. They're straight up USPS stamps, they're flat rate. They're not even doing that, they're just adding stamps one by one to every envelope. They send individual stamps. It's a tough situation for Nissan because they actually are doing okay on sales, they're selling product. They've done a full revamp of their dealer incentive program to presumably cut costs for themselves. That will probably impact sales too, because let's be honest on how some Nissan product lines sell and they're going to just try to get product out the market quickly. They've said they're going to eliminate about half of their global platforms and just increase parts sharing, platform sharing, development sharing to try to get products out in 30 months instead of double that.
[10:00]
Doug DeMuro
Here's a question out, here's a question for you. Does Nissan even recover from this? You know, I drove the new Pathfinder and the new Armada and they were both excellent. But it's getting to a point where no matter how good the products are, there's like significant reticence about buying them from general human being public. Am I wrong?
[10:20]
Filippo
I don't think anybody knows the people that are buying Sentras are not paying attention to autonews.com?
[10:25]
Doug DeMuro
But Sentras are not profitable and they're not big sellers. And presumably if Nissan wants to make money like some of the rival brands, their brand position needs to be better and it is not.
[10:37]
Filippo
Yep.
[10:38]
Doug DeMuro
And in Armadas and Pathfinders are cars that people do buy based on brand a lot of the time.
[10:45]
Filippo
I would not be shocked if I think that Nissan survives this. Apparently there was a report two days ago that Toyota reached out to them about partnering, joining forces, etc. After Honda backed out of that. I don't see that happening. But I think they come out of it, but I think they're going to come out of it with way fewer product lines. I think they're going to come out of it with just exiting markets entirely. The US market is doing. Compared to their European sales and their Asian sales, the US market is doing well. Unfortunately for them, it's also the only place they have costs to cut and so they're in a tough position where they need to cut investment from the only market that's doing at all okay for them. Yeah, just.
[11:21]
Kenan
It just doesn't spell good things.
[11:23]
Filippo
I think they exit out of it, but just nice.
[11:27]
Doug DeMuro
Yeah, that Honda partnership would have. Nice. Okay, give us our next news story. Ah, yes.
[11:32]
Kenan
Wow.
[11:33]
Doug DeMuro
Completely different Wiener Mobile.
[11:34]
Filippo
What a transition.
[11:36]
Doug DeMuro
Kenan, have you read about this?
[11:37]
Kenan
No, I haven' all right.
[11:39]
Doug DeMuro
Apparently there's a big race in Indiana and I'm not talking about the Wienermobile race, although in my opinion, that is now the big race in Indiana. So next weekend or some upcoming weekend, it's usually Memorial Day. They race these cars at the Indy 500 there on the bricks. Filippo knows big loops. Yeah, but this year they're gonna race Oscar Mayer Wienermobiles against each other. Six of them and one will win. And you can see the promo there says only one wiener.
[12:10]
Filippo
Is that alongside the Indy 500 cars? Yeah, they're going to be up the IndyCar truck.
[12:16]
Doug DeMuro
It's going to be like that time that Juan Pablo Montoya ran into the jet dryer truck. My all time favorite NASCAR moment.
[12:23]
Kenan
That is an obscure thing, but yes, I should go YouTube that there was.
[12:27]
Doug DeMuro
A jet powered truck on the. Anyway, look, the point is the Oscar Mayer Wienermobiles are going to race and they're gonna win. Now, there are six different Wienermobiles, each representing a different local style of hot dog. Are you aware this, Filippo?
[12:41]
Filippo
Sure.
[12:41]
Doug DeMuro
They have their own. Now, I know what you're thinking. I didn't know there were different local styles of hot dogs. Or at least you didn't know there were six of them. Well, they're there.
[12:48]
Filippo
The Chicago dog, the New York dog, Sloth, the Nora and Seattle and chili dog.
[12:52]
Doug DeMuro
I assume Seattle has a type of hot dog.
[12:55]
Kenan
That's the really surprising one to me. I didn't realize that until maybe I'm wet and bleak.
[13:00]
Filippo
It is served with cream cheese.
[13:02]
Kenan
Oh, all right.
[13:04]
Doug DeMuro
It is wet and bleak.
[13:08]
Filippo
Have you guys.
[13:09]
Doug DeMuro
That this is happening.
[13:10]
Filippo
Have you guys seen a wiener mobile in real life?
[13:12]
Kenan
Yes, there was one in North Park. I saw it drive through. I could not get a picture of it.
[13:15]
Doug DeMuro
So I've been on the Wiener mobile personally.
[13:19]
Kenan
I have when I was a kid too. No way.
[13:20]
Filippo
Really?
[13:21]
Doug DeMuro
Yeah, I. I asked if I could drive it and they said no.
[13:25]
Kenan
Oh, that's right.
[13:27]
Doug DeMuro
They told me they took it pretty seriously, the whole Wiener mobile thing. And they don't let anybody but the people drive them. They have a title. They're called like Wiener Mobile. Wiener. They got some name, I don't know. And I said can I drive it? And they said no. But now they're racing them against each other at Indy.
[13:41]
Filippo
Do you think that the 22 year olds that they employ to drive across the country and hand out hot dogs are the people driving them in the race?
[13:48]
Doug DeMuro
Yeah, that's exactly who it was who was driving it. You have to be multi talented. You have to both be able to hand out hot dogs and drive a GMC Top Kick that's been converted look like a hot dog.
[14:02]
Filippo
We'll see which dog is most talented next weekend. This weekend. This weekend.
[14:06]
Kenan
Who are you rooting for?
[14:07]
Doug DeMuro
Felipe, The Sonora dog? No, Filippo. Don't.
[14:12]
Filippo
I don't know. I have no idea what that is.
[14:15]
Doug DeMuro
Don't, don't embrace your, your, your, your southwestern newfound home. You should root for whoever you want. Which of course is the slaw dog.
[14:23]
Filippo
Wrapped in bacon and grilled, different kind of bun, you know, with pinto beans.
[14:27]
Doug DeMuro
They used to call Filippo slaw dog in college. All right, give us. There's no more we can do with this news story. Except by the way, that Oscar Mayer announced that during the Indy 500, the people there, the fans there, consumed 30,000 hot dogs during that race.
[14:43]
Filippo
Also what Doug consumes on a regular Memorial Day weekend.
[14:45]
Kenan
That also sounds like an American race.
[14:48]
Doug DeMuro
It's a great American tradition. Eat 30,000 hot dogs and, and watch some sounds like GMC top kicks.
[14:55]
Filippo
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[16:18]
Doug DeMuro
All right, give us the next news story, please. Oh, yes, the Lexus IS500. Boy, isn't this sad? They're making the Lexus IS500 Ultimate Edition, which some people believe. Lexus hasn't announced this, but which some people believe will be the end of the line for the Lexus is, of course.
[16:34]
Kenan
Oh, no. Can we move to the next story now? I do like. I do like this car.
[16:41]
Doug DeMuro
This is the last Nav8 on the market. That's not true. But it might as well be.
[16:44]
Kenan
Well, the LC500 was like a word. It's the same engine, but that's a much better execution.
[16:51]
Doug DeMuro
How many more years do you think the LC500's got left in it? You think that's gonna run for a while? You think they're gonna be a redesign of that?
[16:56]
Kenan
I hope it's got a car. Yeah.
[16:58]
Filippo
You should love this car.
[16:59]
Kenan
I do. I do like this car. You had it on Testa, if memory serves me. And I think we went out and we were both like, wow, it's a good engine. It's underwhelming. It was a great engine, but it was just.
[17:11]
Doug DeMuro
It was a weird car because they gave it the V8 that we had always wanted in the previous gen to replace the original isf, and they even gave it the power. But it wasn't a sporty car like it was, and they never called it an F. To their credit, it was never intended to be like the isf, but without that much more work, they could have made another isf, but they oddly chose not to. And so it was just a V8 and kind of a regular is, which was a decent car.
[17:36]
Kenan
So is this. I guess this is as close as we're going to get to that then with it being the Edition.
[17:43]
Doug DeMuro
I don't think that it has any specific, like, really cool upgrades aside from the usual red seat belt. It says. And I'm looking on their press release. Got bigger brakes, an exclusive startup animation, BBS wheels, but there's no. They're not doing anything. Brembo brake, calipers it says. I mean, you know, come on.
[18:01]
Kenan
Well, that's a sad note for it to go out on. But then again, it's kind of fitting.
[18:05]
Filippo
I assume the is are just dead. I mean, the is this generation is came out in 2014. It's been around for a while. It's time.
[18:13]
Doug DeMuro
No, that's not true. It is. Well, I'll tell you this. The is has been a 25 year product that Kenan and I have memories in. Okay. Kenan and I. Kenan had his first kiss with Emily in an IS300. Kenan took his driving lesson in an IS300 sport cross.
[18:31]
Filippo
Good for him.
[18:32]
Doug DeMuro
Kenan put Altezza taillights on his first E46.
[18:36]
Kenan
God, can you imagine? Like, he, like.
[18:38]
Doug DeMuro
Yeah, a lot of people did that.
[18:41]
Filippo
Yep.
[18:42]
Doug DeMuro
Yes.
[18:42]
Kenan
I mean, for me specifically.
[18:43]
Doug DeMuro
But it is an interesting thing, the end of the line, yet another V8, you know, sports sedan thing.
[18:49]
Kenan
That makes me sad. But it wasn't. I mean, the ISF is the one from the entire IS line that I think of as like the. The great one. It was like, it.
[18:58]
Filippo
Actually.
[18:59]
Kenan
I remember when it came out very vividly, and it was such a different car. And I remember going to the Cleveland Auto show, them telling me it was an M3 killer. And I was like, yeah, all right. But it turns out you didn't need to kill it for the M3. The motors were so bad, they blew up on their own. And the Lexus has continued to run, but that's kind of just.
[19:15]
Filippo
I. I rode in an IS500 at an IMSA race that did, like a track lap in one of these. And the engine is a V8. And that is all I can say about it.
[19:26]
Kenan
Nice V. I just prefer it in the LC5.
[19:27]
Filippo
And also, it's not a sporty car. Just doesn't.
[19:30]
Doug DeMuro
Yeah, but it's still sad.
[19:31]
Kenan
It is sad.
[19:33]
Doug DeMuro
Okay, bring us our next news story, please.
[19:35]
Filippo
Oh, what do you think this vehicle is?
[19:39]
Doug DeMuro
I know what it is, but if you were to ask me and I didn't know, I would say it was.
[19:42]
Kenan
AI I also would say it was AI and they should tone it down when they. They should be more specific about their description when they're, like, telling it to do something. All right, There's a lot going on.
[19:52]
Filippo
This is Toyota's EV, like their main EV. Do you know what it's called?
[19:56]
Kenan
That's the BZ4X.
[19:57]
Filippo
It's not anymore. Starting with this refresh. It is called the Toyota bz.
[20:02]
Doug DeMuro
You know, we made enough fun of it. I Got. I'm gonna take some small amount of credit for this.
[20:07]
Filippo
You should. Hey, by the way, I still lowercase.
[20:10]
Doug DeMuro
Mocked that car's name.
[20:12]
Filippo
Yep.
[20:13]
Kenan
I mean rightfully so. It deserved it. But now it's just the.
[20:16]
Filippo
It's a lowercase B uppercase C. Oh. So obviously as one. To be fair, Scion did this forever. The xb, the xa, the xd, the.
[20:26]
Doug DeMuro
Now it appears that it's like a much bigger. What I mean it's redesigned or something. I mean it just, it's selling well.
[20:32]
Filippo
Truly just a refresh, but it has a notably larger Battery. Range is up 25 for the big battery model. Power is up.
[20:41]
Doug DeMuro
What's the mileage now?
[20:43]
Filippo
314 in the front wheel drive. Big battery trim. Horsepower is up pretty notably. 50 more horsepower in the all wheel drive.
[20:51]
Doug DeMuro
What, 300 or 350 or something?
[20:54]
Filippo
Yeah. 338. 0 to 60. 4.9 seconds.
[20:58]
Doug DeMuro
Okay, this is now a competitive car. What is it a lot more expensive.
[21:02]
Filippo
Or is it not worth. They haven't actually announced pricing, but it's. The implication is that it's about the same price and that there's a new larger screen which is taken from the sequoia, etc. There's a heat pump now it's all.
[21:16]
Doug DeMuro
Like we've been making fun of this car on this podcast for like two years. This is actually all those changes were the things that we were complaining about. They actually addressed them.
[21:24]
Filippo
It only took them to be, I don't know, five, four years to get make the product that's the most. The most important new product in a century, in a decade, at least, competitive.
[21:33]
Doug DeMuro
Well, they did it and four years and like two years day supply stacked up at dealer lots currently. Yeah, but honestly those changes will make it reasonably competitive.
[21:43]
Filippo
We talked a couple weeks ago about the new Super Solterra refresh. This is the identical refresh really, which makes it competitive. One other note, the Lexus rz, which is Lexus's version of this, also got a refresh. And very, very notably the sportiest trims of that will have simulated gear shifts. So that is like the Ionic 5N. Yeah. That is to say Alexis is trying to to be sporty. So they get rid of the IS 500. They're only vaguely enthusiasty vehicle, but now they'll have simulated gear shifts in the RZ550E F Sport.
[22:18]
Kenan
Some would say they focused on the wrong car.
[22:20]
Doug DeMuro
What kind of power does that Lexus have?
[22:22]
Filippo
402 horsepower and 0 to 60 in 4.1 seconds that probably won't suck. No, but that's not, that's every ev, just all of them.
[22:31]
Doug DeMuro
Well, yeah, but that's simulated gear shifts and it's like a wagon.
[22:34]
Filippo
Yeah. And it has the, it's available. The yoke thing.
[22:37]
Doug DeMuro
Yeah.
[22:39]
Filippo
Yep.
[22:40]
Doug DeMuro
I'm interested by the way the base.
[22:42]
Filippo
Trim still has 221 horsepower.
[22:44]
Doug DeMuro
Well, but that's true of like the ionic file. The, all those base trim cars have a low power because they got to do a come on starting price.
[22:51]
Filippo
Right. You know, it works, you know, upgrade galore in Toyota land.
[22:57]
Doug DeMuro
I think that that is a much more compelling vehicle and I am actually legitimately excited to check it out when it, when it comes to give us our next news story, please, I get.
[23:05]
Filippo
To keep talking about Toyota. All right. You're familiar with the Toyota RAV4?
[23:09]
Doug DeMuro
No.
[23:10]
Filippo
Every single 30 year old woman that you know has one.
[23:13]
Kenan
That's true. They get that right.
[23:15]
Filippo
Every man, woman and child, somehow, multiple friends moved to San Diego in the last few years and every single one of them moved from a city where they didn't have a car, New York, and bought a RAV4 Hybrid. That's every single one.
[23:27]
Kenan
True.
[23:28]
Doug DeMuro
Well, they're very competent.
[23:30]
Filippo
They are. And one of the cars was white, one of them was silver, one of them was gray and the other one was white.
[23:37]
Doug DeMuro
Well, that's, that's a fact.
[23:39]
Filippo
That is truly a fact. But there is a new RAV4 that was revealed yesterday. They claim it is all new. It is not. It is pretty clearly like facelift or like a pretty deep facelift. I should say. Couple of things that are important.
[23:54]
Doug DeMuro
What do you define as new versus facelift? I think you're wrong about this. You need a new platform for it to be new.
[23:59]
Filippo
It is not a new platform.
[24:01]
Doug DeMuro
There are automakers who have said they're never going to come up with another new platform ever again as far as the world.
[24:05]
Filippo
That's a good point. It's a good point.
[24:07]
Kenan
It's a good point. Traditionally that is how I have looked at it. When there's a new chassis of something that it is a new, you guys.
[24:14]
Doug DeMuro
Will never have another redesigned car ever again.
[24:18]
Kenan
They're all just faceless from here on out.
[24:20]
Filippo
I, I, all right, I will use Toyota's language. It is all new. It's an all new RAV4. You're going to see a bunch of them. They're all hybrid now. There's no longer a non hybrid powertrain.
[24:29]
Doug DeMuro
Really? Wow.
[24:31]
Filippo
Base model is still front wheel drive, which is Unusual because historically their hybrid models have all had an engine and have all the electric motor in the back and made it all wheel drive. They've changed that for the generation and there's also a plug in hybrid model still available. Here's what you will care about because the rest of this, you're going to see a trailing of them literally everywhere from the moment they come out later this year.
[24:50]
Doug DeMuro
Do you think Canon's going to care about any of this?
[24:52]
Kenan
Yes, because I'm going to try.
[24:53]
Filippo
He's going to try. He's going to try. There is a, a new trim that is done in collaboration with GR Gazoo Racer Performance Arm. Yep. So there is a GR Sport plug in hybrid EV that's going to be the, the most expensive trim. It is not notable in any way, shape or form except that it has a spoiler.
[25:13]
Kenan
Oh.
[25:14]
Filippo
It has the same plug in hybrid powertrain which is actually pretty fast by the way. I'm not done. I'm not done. Not done. Has a spoiler, has 320 horsepower which is not bad. And the suspension has been tuned by Gazoo Racer so it might actually be A well handling Rav4.320 horsepower is pretty good.
[25:35]
Doug DeMuro
Remember the story was that the previous RAV4 prime plug in prime was faster than the, than the base model. Supra.
[25:41]
Filippo
Remember 302 horsepower, pretty fun.
[25:43]
Doug DeMuro
This is probably even more power than that has.
[25:44]
Filippo
Yeah. And it will be cool. I like the idea of Toyota going leaning in a little bit. There's a GR badge, there will be a GR tuned suspension and that should be kind of cool because if they make it a little bit sportier, if they make it a little bit more fun to drive, that kind of becomes appealing as a plug in hybrid.
[25:59]
Doug DeMuro
It should be noted also that, that it's not a GR RAV4, it's a GR Sport. That should be underscored. This is not intended to be like.
[26:06]
Kenan
S line, Alexis F Sport, that sort of thing. Yeah.
[26:10]
Doug DeMuro
When they do a GRF4 you'll know.
[26:14]
Kenan
I'm waiting three pedals.
[26:18]
Filippo
GR suspension could be cool.
[26:20]
Kenan
I mean it's a light appearance package is all it is. And a suspension and a mild suspension. That's it.
[26:28]
Filippo
Yeah.
[26:29]
Doug DeMuro
I would say it's a medium appearance package. Nonetheless, with regards to the RAV4 in general, I am quite excited about it. Full hybrid is pretty cool from what I've seen. It looks very confident. It's a really full trim range with like a sport one and a plug in one and a regular hybrid and the Woodland. There's an off road one which is, I'm sure going to be like also a light appearance package. But nonetheless, they know how popular this car is. They take this car very seriously and it shows. This looks like it's going to be another smash hit, RAV4.
[26:57]
Filippo
And the interior looks like a nice set of upgrades. More screens, as you'd expect, but generally seems nicely done. The Camry that you were responsible for, obviously is the first person in North America to drive it. Except for every single Toyota employee in the world. In the world. Except for every single port employee and transportation driver and hotel valet.
[27:17]
Kenan
I was the families of all the world.
[27:19]
Doug DeMuro
The hotel valet may have handed me the keys and he brought the car around. Okay. But I was the first.
[27:24]
Filippo
But regardless, that. That Camry was a pretty large improvement over the prior one and also went fully hybrid and had a much improved interior. And I'm hopeful that this will be true for the RAV4 too.
[27:33]
Doug DeMuro
It's got to be. Toyota is all about core competency, and this is a core competency vehicle. We won't discuss the BZ4X and some of the other. Yep, Solterra. Okay, that's interesting. RAV4 will be seen everywhere. When does it come out? When's it on sale?
[27:48]
Filippo
Later this year. It'll be at dealerships. 20. 25 model? Yeah.
[27:53]
Doug DeMuro
25 model.
[27:55]
Filippo
I believe so. Yeah. No, I'm so sorry. They're calling it 26 model, but late this summer is the most recent news I've heard.
[28:01]
Doug DeMuro
Kenan, give us our last news story, please.
[28:03]
Kenan
Okay, so something I'm very excited about. So this is the de Tomaso P72. Now, this was teased to us at Goodwood six years ago. 2019. It's beautiful. I think there's no debate. When it came out, we were like, oh, it's gorgeous. But then in traditional fashion, we're like, it's vaporware. This car is never going to exist. They're going to tease this. There's going to be money problems, blah, blah, blah. Well, daytime also says no, they are going to start deliveries to customers this year. But it's been six years since it came out, so I'm not sure exactly how excited people will be. Now, granted, they only made 72 of them, hence kind of a name. And they, they are pretty expensive, allegedly. Each one transacts for over a million dollars is what they're saying.
[28:46]
Filippo
Out of money. Before they finish the production run, will they change it like the P20?
[28:50]
Kenan
Oh, maybe. Maybe they just like. Yeah, they just like Scratch it out. Scratch up the seven maybe. I don't know. It is an exciting motor's in it. So it's the. It's a supercharged Coyote V8. So it's a six speed manual Coyote V8, 700 horsepower, 604 foot pounds of torque. And it is truly one of the most beautiful looking shapes from any modern car. Filippo, he's more excited about the biz.
[29:13]
Filippo
I am. Yeah.
[29:14]
Doug DeMuro
I gotta be honest with you, Kenan. There's all these startup brands making this and that.
[29:19]
Kenan
I know it's hard to get excited.
[29:20]
Doug DeMuro
No, no. But a couple of like maybe 6 months ago I found out about this car like on the Internet some night. It had missed me until then and I went on this deep dive and I got really pumped about it and I was like, I want one of these things and I still want one of these things. And I wonder if that's possible. Have you seen like pictures of it running like it's a.
[29:40]
Kenan
It looks incredible. I've seen one so.
[29:43]
Doug DeMuro
Absolutely incredible.
[29:44]
Kenan
They had the rolling chassis for it. Surprise, surprise again at Amelia island several years ago and I saw it then and it was, it was gorgeous.
[29:52]
Doug DeMuro
Why do they have a rolling chassis when they got a Coyote V8 in it? Me and you could hook that thing up in an afternoon.
[29:56]
Kenan
Well, some would say it's, you know, questionable. At the time it was, it was vaporware when I saw it. But now it's, now it's real and I, and there's a chance we see one in car, who knows. But I agree, it's. It's a combination of very exciting elements and for a startup, effectively a startup brand, I mean it's resurrecting an old brand but like it's exciting for it to have the enthusiast things of an engine and experience a manual transmission. It not yet another EV kind of BS thing that's kind of slapped together in this escape. A million cars underneath.
[30:25]
Doug DeMuro
I totally agree with you. I'm. I'm. I'm like not. It's also a manual. Yeah, you said that. Yeah. I'm like quite impressed with this vehicle and I think it's really cool. Of all the BS vaporware car companies making BS vaporware cars. That is not that. That is cool looking. It really is.
[30:41]
Kenan
It is so like if yes, it is expensive at a million dollars. But look at this, look at it. Felipe was underwhelmed by. But that isn't a legitimate.
[30:50]
Doug DeMuro
You don't think this is a beautiful car for.
[30:52]
Filippo
It's a beautiful car for sure. But when you announce it six years ago and finally say, you know, we're going to start delivering them later this year, we promise. I'm not interested.
[31:00]
Doug DeMuro
That's what they did with the nsx. I mean, love that car.
[31:03]
Filippo
I have very.
[31:04]
Doug DeMuro
They have made an NSX convertible, new NSX convertible.
[31:07]
Filippo
You'd have one with a manual, but.
[31:10]
Kenan
This one has a manual.
[31:11]
Doug DeMuro
This is great.
[31:12]
Filippo
I struggle to get excited about cars that they build fewer than 20,000 of.
[31:17]
Doug DeMuro
You know what, I usually do too. But dude, of all the supercars, and there's so many dumb supercars coming out now because these companies have figured out you just need to do bodywork and then put an electric motor on it and it does 0, 60 and 1.7 and these cars are all boring. But that is pretty neat looking and it follows the DiTomaso formula. Take a Ford V8, put it in something beautiful and make it go.
[31:38]
Kenan
Exactly.
[31:39]
Filippo
We assume they aren't coming to the U.S. are they coming to the U.S.
[31:42]
Kenan
It'Ll be showing display, I'm sure. Like, like pretty much all of these very low volume production cars are, but nonetheless, it's it. I, I'm so excited for it. I would really, really, really like to see one at car week. I think it's just pretty.
[31:56]
Filippo
It seems likely if they want to.
[31:57]
Kenan
Sell any, that's the only place I'll be. Cart week.
[32:00]
Doug DeMuro
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[33:21]
Filippo
This is a Grande. This is a Grande Panda 4x4 edition that they have announced slash tease at an auto show. It isn't necessarily real yet, but they will be. Every article about it is basically implying Fiat said they're going to build this, but they haven't officially said they're going to build this. It is the 4x4 version of their Grande Panda that's sold in developing markets and in Europe. It's incredibly cool. It's supposed to be a homage in many ways to the original Panda 4x4, which is one of the best cars in the world, period. And I'm excited for it. It's like a. It's a normal small four cylinder or an electric car.
[34:00]
Doug DeMuro
So in love with their own car brands that even Filippo, 20 years out of Europe can't get off.
[34:07]
Kenan
It is cool, but like, but the Panda, like, it's. I mean, it's cool, but it was garbage. Like, it's not a good.
[34:13]
Filippo
Excuse me. We're gonna. Ken and I are gonna fight.
[34:15]
Kenan
I mean, look, I'm not wrongfully.
[34:18]
Doug DeMuro
Be careful. Be careful. The Panda mobilized his country. His grandparents got to work in a Panda. It's the only way they could keep his family alive. They sold bread in the. In the, in the. In the town s. Well, and they.
[34:28]
Kenan
Can continue to do so. And this list, this is BS Vaporware.
[34:33]
Filippo
Obviously not coming to. To the US But I love manufacturers doing like slight throwbacks. Renault has done a bunch of these. It's nice to see Fiat take a.
[34:41]
Kenan
I agree, it's cool. I just can't. You can't say it's one of the best cars in the world.
[34:44]
Filippo
The Fiat Panda. Original Fiat Panda revolutionized Italy, made it possible for Italy to succeed. However.
[34:52]
Doug DeMuro
Wait a minute, wait a minute. That was the original Fiat 500.
[34:54]
Filippo
No, no, I. I agree.
[34:56]
Kenan
It's the Tinker.
[34:58]
Doug DeMuro
What?
[34:59]
Filippo
Earlier it was the Cinquecento. Later, Italy needed a lot of help.
[35:04]
Doug DeMuro
The original Cinquecento came out, revolutionized Italy and made it possible for Italy to succeed. Thirty years later, they had failed so miserably that they needed a second car to come out and help them succeed once again.
[35:14]
Kenan
And then 40 years after that, you're.
[35:16]
Filippo
Saying that as a joke, but like kind of. Yeah, okay.
[35:20]
Doug DeMuro
All right, we gotta move on. To the Talk Cars segment. The Talk Cars segment is brought to you by the fact that I am in a small room.
[35:27]
Kenan
Yes. Very far away.
[35:29]
Filippo
The irony is that you're in a large room.
[35:31]
Doug DeMuro
Oh, maybe it's a large room. Nobody knows. The Talk Car segment is brought to you by this weird room I'm in. And people are going to be wondering, why am I in that room? I'm not going to explain it. All right, go ahead.
[35:45]
Filippo
I struggle with that transition. Last weekend, last Friday, for the first time ever, I went to Good Vibes, Breakfast Club and up Angeles Crest. Good Vibes is an event that happens in la, in the forest on Friday morning mornings.
[35:59]
Doug DeMuro
You skip over this, but I want to underscore this happens on Friday mornings. For those of you in the rest of the country who think that rich people in LA don't do anything, here is your biggest proof of the fact that they don't do anything.
[36:11]
Filippo
100%. It takes an hour to get out there from any. Wherever you at a minimum from the base amount to where it happens. There's no service. You can't actually accomplish any work. But luckily for me, every once in a while my work is to go to car events and it works out. It was great. We saw Matt Farah there and Zach Clapman. It was nice to see them. And just a bunch of other cool people who have a whole lot of free time on Friday mornings and have supercars. It's quite all Porsches and some Launcher Delta Underground.
[36:37]
Kenan
And your gti.
[36:38]
Filippo
And my gti. And I have two takeaways.
[36:41]
Doug DeMuro
Yeah.
[36:41]
Filippo
One is Angeles Crest. Beautiful place, great road gti. Excellent car. I really need better tires. And it became like incredibly apparent on that mountain drive. The, the like all season tires that came with the car are just so incredibly mediocre.
[36:58]
Doug DeMuro
And I was thinking about some Ko2s or it wants.
[37:02]
Kenan
He wants to make his GTI look like that thing. Yeah, look like the fan.
[37:06]
Filippo
Wait, that's a great idea. No, I don't do anything that increases road noise. I do need new tires that I want sportier tires that I think would make that drive.
[37:15]
Kenan
Listen, Pat, no, Michelin is your answer. Spend some money, which you won't.
[37:18]
Doug DeMuro
He would never. He would never. If they have pilot sports at that used tire place that we drove by during the Find the Worst Car video, he would go to them and do that. But that's the only way.
[37:27]
Kenan
Some square PS4s's.
[37:30]
Filippo
Yeah, but that is my takeaway. Also. Good Vibes, Great event. If you're ever in LA and Have a free Friday morning. Or if you're lucky enough for every Friday morning to be a free Friday morning, go, go up there.
[37:39]
Doug DeMuro
Who are you talking about? Hey, you know, can I say something? I was on your Instagram page, instagram.com filippo or something, some of that. And I noticed that you actually also had another point there, which was that you said you now want a launch of Delta Negra. Now, we can add this to the list of 10,000 cars that you want. You're not going to buy, but I'm curious about this.
[38:00]
Kenan
I'll add to this. So I read that, and I was like, absolutely no way. And I asked our producer, Sean, who was with him, I was like, did Filippo. Because I assumed he had no idea what they're worth, because they're worth a fortune. I think it was an Evo 2 that you were looking at, which is like. Like the one yellow. And it was. I think a producer told him how much they're worth.
[38:21]
Doug DeMuro
I think they're worth.
[38:22]
Kenan
Can you just get the normal one? And I knew that is what you consider. You would take a picture of that and you would settle for a normal Delta. That's what you would get.
[38:30]
Filippo
Yeah, but they made turbo ones.
[38:33]
Doug DeMuro
God, Felipe. You know, it's probably back in the 80s, they probably made 500,000 Deltas and 3,000 Delta Integrale Evos. And now of the remaining ones, there are 2,800 integrale evos and about seven of the regular cars still remain.
[38:46]
Filippo
I don't.
[38:47]
Doug DeMuro
I don't even know the last time I was in Europe and saw a non integral launcher.
[38:52]
Filippo
It happens in, like, rural Italy, where they've owned that car from new and they haven't been able to change cars. I love the launch of Delta gr.
[39:01]
Kenan
I've always loved the launch of the Delta. Integrale is a very serious little car.
[39:05]
Doug DeMuro
Well, and also it's very Filippo when you think about it. It combines kind of everything. It's a. It's a practical hatchback. It's. It's. It's Italian. It's fun, but, like, not too fun, because God forbid, you know, it could be very Filippo.
[39:19]
Filippo
We hosted a launch of Atlanta Grale in September of 2020. I remember when we first did it and I wrote that listing for Carson Bits. I was writing listings at the time, and I. Ever since writing that listing, I have very much wanted.
[39:33]
Kenan
You're talking about this one.
[39:35]
Doug DeMuro
I have begged you. I have begged you or people in my orbit to buy one of these. No one wants to. Everybody's afraid. They're going to be unreliable.
[39:41]
Kenan
And they are correct. And it is very hard to work. Part about it's not that it's unreliable. It's very difficult to find people who know how to work on them. It's very difficult to get parts. It's a real challenge to own, as I know someone who has one and it is it. But it is so damn cool. And I wish you would get one, but you won't.
[39:57]
Filippo
Of course not.
[39:58]
Kenan
And that's a shame.
[39:59]
Doug DeMuro
No. But I will challenge Stradale to own. Okay. Thank you. Thank you so much. Hey. Hey. That pun was brought to you by the tiny room that I'm in. Why am I in it?
[40:11]
Kenan
Tiny room. It's terrible.
[40:14]
Doug DeMuro
Tell us about your experience in the Rolls Royce Phantom, which is also a tiny room that you can be in.
[40:19]
Kenan
Yes. It's a large car or a tiny room. So we have a Rolls Royce Phantom, a 2004 centenary edition that'll be coming to the site very soon that I did a video on, and it was magnificent. I don't know why I thought that most of those old, like the very early series 7 rolls rolls Royce Phantoms were. Would be just kind of not great by today's standards.
[40:41]
Doug DeMuro
Sure.
[40:42]
Kenan
I was stunned. The level of soundproofing, the quality of the materials, like, it has held up beautifully. Now, this one's been very well cared for. But it had seven, almost 75,000 miles on it. Which one of those.
[40:51]
Doug DeMuro
Amazing. How many of them have some miles on them?
[40:54]
Kenan
Because it's just so drivable and it is such a pleasure. I mean, cars would go past me and just like in the Series 8 that I drove, I couldn't really hear them.
[41:02]
Doug DeMuro
Them.
[41:02]
Kenan
Like you're not disturbed by anything. And the power is good. It has a. There's a button on the steering which I think is called low. And you press that and it puts the car into first gear because otherwise it defaults to second to start so that it's. It's smooth as you should. And in first gear, like, you get on it and it's not slow. 5.9 seconds to 60 is like what it does, which is impressive for a car that weighs as much as a small aircraft carrier.
[41:24]
Filippo
Yeah.
[41:25]
Doug DeMuro
And that doesn't do it with any drama. It's also impressive because when you floor it that you go that fast. But it doesn't, I mean, it's not that it doesn't feel like you're, you're, you're being, you know, like an sti where it's like loud and you know, Exactly.
[41:37]
Kenan
I mean, it's a V12, but purely for smoothness like that. It's not for performance necessarily, smoothness and torque. And I was just blown. Granted, the technology is not that great, but the whole point I'm making with my video is, for less than the price of a new base 7 series, you could have Rolls Royce's best. And also the car was very significant when you think about it, it's such a confidence decision.
[41:59]
Filippo
Yeah.
[42:00]
Kenan
Imagine like when BMW took over, they wanted to like really reinvent Rolls Royce, make it cool. Because it had. It was kind of an old person brand. And so they did it with the Phantom and they were like, we were going, we're going to make one car. It is going to be. The Phantom is going to have a 12 cylinder engine. You're going to be able to choose lots of cool options and stuff. 40,000 different paint colors, but we're gonna make one car and it's gonna look.
[42:20]
Doug DeMuro
Like that and have that level of presence. It's hard to really explain now because the Phantom has become so normalized over the last 20 years, how insane of a thing that was when it came out. Because the Phantom, the predecessor was the Silver Seraph, which was a relatively tame, understated car, and the predecessor to the Seraph was the Silver Spur and the Silver Spirit, which had been on sale since 1980. And they were also tame. The Phantom was Rolls Royce coming back and saying, we're going to own this. We're going to kill everybody. And it has. And I think the reason its values have held so well in part is because it's just. The style is just so unmistakably insanely. It's still cool. It's still cool.
[42:58]
Kenan
I totally agree with that. It was, I mean, truly before then, and also like before then. Don't forget the Phantom existed basically as a car for heads of state and dignitaries. It wasn't really available to the public, so they instead decided to make this ultimate car. And it was so good, it is unfathomable to me how much it reinvented Rolls Royce. Because when you close your mind, close your eyes and you picture Rolls Royce, the Phantom is what everybody pictures. I mean, do you talk about. The R8 is a successful halo car? The Phantom changed Rolls Royce's, an entire company's perception, really.
[43:31]
Doug DeMuro
Yeah. And Rolls Royce, the perception of Rolls at that time was not particularly strong. I mean, it was. It was a dying brand without new product. That. That was kind of a joke. Like. Like it was beauty. Everybody knew what a Rolls Royce was and it was had this like luxury perception but like you didn't want one, you just kind of like it was like kind of a cliche to talk about like oh that doesn't, that's as expensive as a Rolls Royce. Like you didn't really want to have the car and then, and then that thing.
[43:56]
Kenan
Right. And then also, I mean Bentley at the same time then went their own way and did their thing with the Continental GT which again revitalized that brand. And when you picture Bentley, most people close their eyes, they picture Continental gt.
[44:06]
Doug DeMuro
Absolutely.
[44:06]
Kenan
It's just interesting that the two, the two German companies ultimately decided which direction these companies would go in.
[44:11]
Doug DeMuro
Yeah. Figured it out, remember which after an enormous protracted long battle, they both wanted both companies and there was an enormous fight between the two which ended in the most bizarre decision ever which was Volkswagen was given both brands for a few years and then kept Bentley and BMW reverted to Rolls Royce after like Volkswagen got five years to play with them. It was so bizarre.
[44:36]
Kenan
Yes. And then, yeah then BMW got like the naming rights and then they, but that was for the aircraft manufacturing. Like it was like a, it was such an odd and it was weird.
[44:45]
Doug DeMuro
That those two brands were fighting over this, these, these companies that weren't really particularly valuable at that time and didn't really add all that much. But in the end they've both done a good job of, of making this company succeed and Rolls Royce is really something again.
[44:58]
Kenan
Absolutely. And I was just stunned. And to drive the genesis of that, that year, it was like, it was just so remarkably good. Even getting back in my ethereum, I'm like wow, this is nowhere near as nice as the Phantom is. Just that level of nice. And I have to say also I love pre war cars because I like big cars with like big engines. That's what I and that is, that are very refined and that is kind of what the Rolls Royce. That's what, that's what it feels like. And I, I just absolutely, absolutely adored it.
[45:27]
Filippo
I also love the comparison to the current seven series which is the base one is the same price.
[45:31]
Kenan
Yeah.
[45:32]
Filippo
It's Also the current 7 series has taken a lot of like ethos from that first Phantom. Like it's slap sided, huge grill, upright grill. Like it's like taking a lot of design cues from what they rolled out 20 years ago.
[45:45]
Doug DeMuro
That's right.
[45:46]
Filippo
To be luxury.
[45:47]
Kenan
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[47:16]
Doug DeMuro
Bo Thing that I want to talk about in our talk cars segment here is that I have driven across the country. I drove. I spent four days on the road. Grueling, grueling days. I stayed in a giant pyramid and I drove across the country just so I could be here in this tiny room. And boy, what a room.
[47:35]
Filippo
How was your drive?
[47:37]
Doug DeMuro
It was fine. I drove across the country in my Toyota Sequoia. I now have 12,000 miles on my Toyota Sequoia. It's driven across the country thrice and it hasn't had any issues.
[47:49]
Filippo
12,000 miles means that 10,000 of those miles have now been driving across the country.
[47:55]
Doug DeMuro
Yes. I don't really use it much otherwise, so it was a good purchase. I think it's a great decision.
[48:01]
Filippo
How did it do? Because you, for those that don't know or haven't been listening, Doug had a whole epiphany that the Lexus LX700h was just a better car.
[48:10]
Doug DeMuro
Yeah.
[48:11]
Filippo
Because in every way. Do you still believe that after driving?
[48:14]
Doug DeMuro
Well, yeah, I do. But you know what? You know what hit me when I was Driving the Sequoia across the country, the Sequoia is. Is about. About over about as a Republican car as you can get, you know what I'm saying?
[48:24]
Filippo
While still buying a car that's made by a Japanese manufacturer.
[48:27]
Doug DeMuro
Yeah, yeah, but a lot of Republicans do that. And it was built in Texas with non union labor.
[48:30]
Kenan
And.
[48:31]
Doug DeMuro
And. And they got. They got camo fenders and camo. Camo. And. And when you start it up, it goes for like, for like a minute.
[48:40]
Filippo
It does. Yeah.
[48:41]
Doug DeMuro
I'm serious. It's really embarrassing. And so, like, if I was driving across the country in that LX700H, I'd look like some California dweeb, refined loser. But considering what you just said, that 10,000 of the 12,000 miles on the Sequoia have been on this drive, don't you think it's better that the thing, like, just works in Oklahoma? Like, I pull off at a gas station in Oklahoma, you know what I mean? Mean, on the Interstate 40 there, and. And a guy is a guy there, a cowboy filling up his 3500 is 7.4 liter VH GMC from the 90s. And. And he gives me a nod and I give him a nod, and we both know, you know what I mean? You know. You know what I'm saying?
[49:22]
Kenan
I know what you're saying.
[49:23]
Filippo
I. Yeah, yeah, it does play kind of everywhere, except for refined areas. Yeah, yeah.
[49:29]
Kenan
Respect.
[49:30]
Filippo
Talk to me about interstate in 81 in Virginia.
[49:33]
Doug DeMuro
Oh, yeah, No, I hate. You know what I hate? Filippo? You ever driven through the East Coast?
[49:37]
Filippo
Jeez, Yeah, I really, really have. Frequently.
[49:41]
Doug DeMuro
Boy, you know what I learned on this drive is that the worst thing about driving on the highway and the truckers already know this. Truckers. You listen to this podcast. I got you one here. The worst thing about driving across the country and on the interstate is city people. You know what I mean? City people have no damn clue. They don't know. And you can always identify them. And on i81 in Virginia, it's the people with the DC license plates. But when you're. But when you're in. Or it's. Or it's someone in the middle of Kansas and they've got a Tesla and it's like, yeah, you're a. And they don't understand how the left lane operates. They literally have no concept of what. And the other thing they do that's annoying is you'll pass them and then they'll realize, and then they'll speed up and then they'll slow down, and then they don't know how cruise control works. They've never used it. Nobody ever taught them. And it's just like, like Jesus God, you people. Don't you know that I am a gun toting Sequoia driver?
[50:30]
Filippo
Hey, you did not purchase the gun safe option. So missing out.
[50:35]
Doug DeMuro
Well, you know what? The gun safe wouldn't be big enough anyway to contain the type of long guns that me and my oklahoma brethren.
[50:42]
Kenan
Your arsenal 50 cows.
[50:44]
Filippo
A long time ago, like maybe 15 years ago, you had a great article about how the worst drivers are zipcar driver drivers because.
[50:51]
Doug DeMuro
Yeah.
[50:51]
Filippo
Renting a car for an hour to like drive around their city. Yeah. This is a good correlator to that.
[50:56]
Doug DeMuro
Yeah. Because they've, they only are on the freeway for like this. Like when I tell people I drive cross country every year twice, people are like, oh, I did it once. And it's like, I bet you were horrible. I bet you were terrible. But like, when you do it a lot, you, you start to understand the rules of the road and you don't really screw with anything. You just start, you go up a hill and the person next to you like is slowing down, right? And then the downhill they pass you and then they go up and then they slow down and it's like, I got cruise control. I'm going the same speed this whole time. And you have no concept of what life is, you city person.
[51:27]
Kenan
Lane discipline in this country is apparent.
[51:30]
Doug DeMuro
It's really better on, it's better on rural freeways. I will say, Ken, and almost nobody screws it up, but some people do.
[51:36]
Filippo
I have one more question. Did you take the Merritt Parkway or did you take 95? 91? I don't remember.
[51:42]
Doug DeMuro
You know, Google, I, I hate driving through Connecticut. I think driving through everybody's like, oh, what's the worst part of the drive? Thinking I'm going to be like, oh, it's Oklahoma because it' flat. But what they don't know is I'm returning to my people in my Sequoia. And the worst part is Connecticut. It is absolutely abhorrent driving through Connecticut. The people just go as fast as they can and slam on the brakes and it's so. There's just too much congestion. There's too much congestion. So which road did I take? The fact that there's even multiple roads that go to the same place underscores my point.
[52:11]
Filippo
The 95 is the normal way. 95. You don't say the. On the.
[52:15]
Doug DeMuro
I don't understand any of it. I just plug it into the Google And I say, take me there.
[52:19]
Filippo
The Merritt Parkway is one of America's great two leg lane, twisty stop sign at that of an on ramp highways in the country.
[52:27]
Doug DeMuro
And it bans trucks.
[52:29]
Filippo
And it really incentivizes you to have like a powerful car. Have you ever driven on. Okay, it's through the middle of Connecticut and the on ramps have a stop sign at the end of them. So you need to get from zero to approximately the speed of sound or 100 miles an hour, depending on the day, in 20ft. It's one of the few highways where the people that live there, namely very wealthy people that commute to the city, have actually have the kind of cars you need to drive safely on that highway.
[52:56]
Doug DeMuro
Yeah, but everybody's going slow. It's too congested. The whole thing's too congested. Sequoia did, once again, 18 and a half miles per gallon, just like it did last year. It was 3,124 miles. We did it in four road days and it was fine and it was great. And I don't notice the truckishness of the ride as much as I used to. And it is a great hauler. And now I got eight people in it and all these sand toys and the dog and we're going everywhere. And it's a pretty damn good car. I hate to admit. I truly hate to admit because it's. I don't want it to. I don't want to like it, you know?
[53:25]
Filippo
Yeah.
[53:26]
Doug DeMuro
But I really kind of do.
[53:27]
Filippo
I'm happy.
[53:28]
Doug DeMuro
And it's pulled out. I got the G wagon stuck on the sand already multiple times. And the Sequoia is there to just pull it on out. It can do it.
[53:35]
Filippo
You have three locking differentials.
[53:38]
Kenan
Yeah, it's like incredibly capable. Off road truck.
[53:40]
Doug DeMuro
I need four. I need four. I need the spare to lock also. All right, we got to move on. We got to move on to our next segment, which is the market report, which we have to go through quickly because there's questions and they're good. The market report is brought to you by this drawing of a Saab 900 that I did.
[53:54]
Kenan
For those of you listening to audio. He did an actually very convincing drawing of a Saab 900.
[53:58]
Filippo
No, it's too short.
[53:59]
Doug DeMuro
I did this drawing of a Saab 900 in my tiny room.
[54:02]
Kenan
Filippo's criticizing him. Filippo, you couldn't draw that if I had a gun pointed at your head to get out of the locker of the Doug.
[54:08]
Filippo
That's a high stress situation.
[54:11]
Doug DeMuro
Nobody can perform, not in that situation. But if you gave him a pen and a paper and some time, he.
[54:16]
Filippo
Could get it done and support sort of behavior.
[54:18]
Doug DeMuro
Okay, I want to talk about the AMGT D4 door because I'm obsessed with this car. Canon. Can you type in AMG gt? Just type in AMG gt. Don't even have to type in four door. Scroll down a little bit. Click on that one in the upper right. Upper right. That white one.
[54:30]
Filippo
Yeah.
[54:31]
Doug DeMuro
This automobile. Car. This vehicle. I didn't realize we talked about last week on the pod. We Talked about the two doors this automobile just sold for $70,000. But that was six months ago. We haven't sold any since then. However, I am told there are other websites that sell cars and if you go to them, such as Autotrader. If you go to them, I'm not advocating for any of them. But if you go to them. Unless they're paying us. Is any of them paying us? Okay. All right then I'm not advocating for any of them. But if you go to those websites, you'll see that these are now into the low 60s. This is one of my very favorite four door cars ever made. And in my opinion, maybe the best handling four door car I've ever driven, including the Panamera. I am obsessed with this car and it's now into the low 60s. Now I don't think that the four doors are depreciating as fast as the two doors, which is interesting. But nonetheless, this car is going to become a seriously good bargain. It already is at 60. Some with a warranty. Everybody is all up on the AMG wagon. Well, I got news for you. This is an AMG hatchback. It's actually more athletic and I think it looks better. So there you go. There's my take.
[55:33]
Filippo
Go buy one. Because 630 horsepower is more than the wagon makes.
[55:37]
Doug DeMuro
It is cool by like what, 7, 27.
[55:39]
Filippo
The wagon makes 603. No reserves.
[55:41]
Doug DeMuro
I'm telling you, this car is great. It handles so sharp. Kenneth, Forget about the M5 5. Let's get on AMG GT4 doors.
[55:49]
Kenan
All right. Well, that's a big noun. I'm not gonna do that. But it, I've. I've never driven one of these cars. I would like to.
[55:55]
Doug DeMuro
They really didn't make all that many of them. There's a lot of AMG GT43s with 2 inch wheels and stuff. But the 63 is the really the one to get and it is quite impressive.
[56:05]
Kenan
Yeah, I'll keep it and it's gonna.
[56:06]
Doug DeMuro
Be Ken and Imagine getting this thing for 47. Seven. That's what it's going to be in about two years.
[56:10]
Kenan
Right. Because what did they sticker for?
[56:12]
Doug DeMuro
Oh, 100, like 150 or 180 or some crazy number.
[56:15]
Kenan
Number Amazing. Well, cool. Depreciation appreciation is your friend.
[56:18]
Filippo
If a car is not that desirable.
[56:20]
Kenan
Yes. If you're not, it is desirable.
[56:22]
Filippo
Market says otherwise.
[56:24]
Doug DeMuro
Cannon, tell us about that M3 result, please.
[56:27]
Kenan
Yes.
[56:27]
Filippo
Crazy.
[56:28]
Kenan
I was a bit perplexed. I. I love the E36 M3. I had one. I didn't. Mine was kind of ratty, but they. I love them. The market has been appreciating them a lot recently. A lot of enthusiast support for the US spec E36 M3 in particular because they languished forever. They're very cheap cars and you can see we've sold ones for kind of reasonable. But this one shocked me. So we sold a 1999 Estoril, blue like over dove gray interior. Very nice car. But it had some miles, 65,000 miles on it. Not crazy low, but not crazy high. But it was an automatic convertible.
[57:01]
Filippo
The dream, I believe.
[57:02]
Kenan
And a US one, inarguably the least desirable. But Felipe looks at it as a deal. That's why it's desirable to him. But this guy who bought this one paid a ton for my opinion, $30,036 for what in my mind is about a $6,000 car or for a nice one is like a $20,000 car.
[57:22]
Doug DeMuro
I don't entirely agree with that, that it's a $6,000 car. It ultimately, if you want a tip convertible, which is unusual, but if you do, this is absolutely the one.
[57:32]
Kenan
Well, no, there's no question. This one was the one. It's presented very well. It's the right colors, it's in great condition. I get why it's sold for of a lot lot. But they are undes like it is the least desirable one by quite a margin. And I'm just like stunned that it sold so well. But this guy clearly wanted the car.
[57:46]
Filippo
Two people, if you.
[57:48]
Kenan
I watched two people really went at it. Yeah.
[57:50]
Filippo
When this auction was happening, I watched the last 20 minutes of it. Man, did it take a while. Two people really wanted it and I kind of get. I agree with you. This is a little bit. I don't think this is the new market for a 33 conversal, but it's the right call color. It's been owned in California and Arizona from new 65, 000 miles for a 26 year old car is low and look at the seat.
[58:13]
Kenan
It's an amazing.
[58:14]
Filippo
The condition is.
[58:16]
Kenan
Not convinced. They're gonna seem to me like they've.
[58:19]
Doug DeMuro
Been swapped, but this car's probably already been.
[58:22]
Kenan
I mean, it was, it was a nice one. I was just like, it really caught me off guard to see it. It was one of those, like, almost spit my tea out sort of moments. Like what? Like, I can't believe that that's what it sold for, but. Yeah, but nonetheless, like.
[58:32]
Doug DeMuro
Kenan, don't you agree that this car is going to be stick swapped? I mean, if you want.
[58:36]
Kenan
It's already done. I almost guarantee it. That car sold, what, on the 13th? Today's the 21st. I guarantee it has a manual transmission.
[58:43]
Filippo
You think so?
[58:44]
Kenan
Like, yeah, that transmission is bad in that car. The auto is not good.
[58:48]
Doug DeMuro
I bet it's. I bet it's getting 6 swap, because honestly, I know that. I know that there's not a lot of appreciation in the enthusiast community for convertibles, but. But I think a lot of people do like convertibles. And the only thing this car is missing is a manual. And if you wanted a E36 M3 convertible manual, this car checks every other box. Low mileage, Southwestern owned, bright color, final year production. It's. Yeah, it's like the perfect car minus the stick. And you can do the swap easily. I bet it does get converted.
[59:13]
Kenan
I would not be at all surprised. And it's pretty easy to do on the E36. But, yeah, I agree with that. I drove a convertible E36 M3 that we sold on the site and it was. It was fun. I had a good time. And like, here it makes sense. The car is not all that fast to begin with and like, if you want to have the top down and like, kind of enjoy just driving around.
[59:30]
Filippo
It, I massively support people just wanting a car and making it happen.
[59:36]
Doug DeMuro
Yeah. Like, if you. If you want a SAAB 900, for example, just draw one.
[59:40]
Filippo
And by the way, I do just draw one.
[59:42]
Kenan
Doug Demiro, just draw one, Kenan.
[59:44]
Doug DeMuro
I don't know why we stick Ken with all the BMWs, but Kenan, can you tell us about the S54 clown shoe as well?
[59:49]
Kenan
Yes. So we also, we've had quite a few BMWs. Well, you stick me with the BMWs because I like them.
[59:56]
Doug DeMuro
But this reputation, this was a great sale, even if you're not into BMW.
[60:00]
Kenan
To be honest, I like BMWs a lot, but Ferrari is actually more of my. There are a lot of other cars I like. I know. I Get a lot of shtick for liking my M5 and I do love my M5, but there are a lot of other cars that I like. I just happen to know a lot and talk about BMWs. But anyway, we sold an S54 powered M coupe coupe. This one was in the launch color which was Phoenix yellow, which is not. Everybody loves this color. I happen to think it is really special and really cool and they are quite rare. This one had 42,000 miles on it. One owner car. It was the one to have and it sold for real money $80,500. Now m coupes have come down quite a bit in recent years, but this one, this was the one. And so it's like this and an Esther old blue one are the only two that kind of go head to head. But this is a really special car and it sold for real money. And I can't say I'm at all surprised. I knew it was going to sell for big money and it did.
[60:51]
Filippo
Boy, did it.
[60:51]
Kenan
It deserved to.
[60:53]
Doug DeMuro
It's sad, man. I remember when these weren't that expensive.
[60:55]
Kenan
I mean, the thing is, the S52 shoe is still very attainable and like it's a very good driving car. The S54 is more special and it is a better engine and it is.
[61:04]
Doug DeMuro
We don't, we don't talk about this enough. I think we mentioned it once on this Pod. But the S52 shoe is probably one of the great bargains in the car biz. It looks basically the same unless you know, as Kenan and I do, how to tell them apart. Filippo does it.
[61:15]
Kenan
I've taught.
[61:15]
Filippo
Of course I do. It's by the badge primarily.
[61:19]
Doug DeMuro
Well, that's one of three ways that we, me and Kennan can tell them apart. But realistically, the S52 motor, although it was not tremendously powerful in the E36 M3, this was a smaller car and it's really kind of a rocket ship even with the S52 and the S52 cars are really cheap. They're like 15 to 20, right?
[61:37]
Kenan
Yeah. I mean we sold this red one for 15,750. That was in August.
[61:42]
Doug DeMuro
Meanwhile, the S54 car is selling for 8,80.
[61:44]
Kenan
Yeah, I mean, yeah. Now, granted special series of circumstances because it really had everything going for it.
[61:49]
Doug DeMuro
Yeah.
[61:50]
Kenan
15.6. And this one had 161, 000 miles on it.
[61:53]
Filippo
Okay.
[61:54]
Kenan
But I mean, nonetheless, like this One sold for 23, seven. I mean, like, and I having driven, I've only driven the S52. Haven't driven the S54 shoe yet, but I, I loved it. It's a really fun, good, good torque like engine. Sounds great. Like. Yeah, it's hard to argue with, especially for the money. Money. Save your money, Filippo. That's what you'd want.
[62:13]
Filippo
I do love to. I would certainly buy that 52.
[62:15]
Doug DeMuro
You get no world. That's a coupe or that's a hatchback. You should consider that.
[62:21]
Filippo
I strongly considered the, the 3.0 that we had or 2.8 that we had in the office for a bit.
[62:25]
Doug DeMuro
Oh, God. He just, just step up to the real one, Filippo. Okay, we got to move on to the questions because there were a lot of good questions this week and which we. I'm gonna keep in this pod to an hour 15, no matter what it takes. The questions are brought to you by the S52 clown shoe of its day, the Saab 900.
[62:44]
Filippo
Can I have a Saab 900?
[62:47]
Doug DeMuro
I'll mail you this draw. Thank you.
[62:49]
Filippo
That'd be wonderful.
[62:50]
Doug DeMuro
Yeah. Okay. The drawing has actually a V8. It's in my mind. So I'm gonna do the questions I have. There are great questions this week. We're fire them off because we got a lot of them from Germany. 21 for Kennan. There's a two parter, but the second part is the good part for Kennan. Tenant, would you let your future wife drive your M5?
[63:10]
Kenan
Absolutely. Yeah. I would have no problem.
[63:12]
Doug DeMuro
Would you let her drink water in it?
[63:14]
Kenan
Yes, I would.
[63:15]
Doug DeMuro
What about coffee?
[63:17]
Kenan
Now we're starting to cross the line.
[63:20]
Filippo
What about eating something not crumbly?
[63:22]
Kenan
Yes. On road trips.
[63:23]
Filippo
What about eating something crumbly? Like, what about a granola bar?
[63:28]
Doug DeMuro
What about a Fig Newton?
[63:30]
Filippo
That's not crumbly.
[63:31]
Doug DeMuro
That's not crumbly, but it kind of is, right? There's like little crumbs of that and then kind of not.
[63:35]
Kenan
Fig Newtons are small. Like, how are you eating your Fig Newton? With a knife and fork?
[63:39]
Doug DeMuro
You would do like three bites, I think. And some of those bites would be.
[63:42]
Filippo
Little Fig Newtons are small.
[63:45]
Kenan
That's a one, that's a two bite max. Like easy bite one.
[63:48]
Doug DeMuro
But your wife is small. Have you met, have you met Emily? She's got a little mouth. She takes four bites of a Fig Newton. It's superstition. Her culture.
[64:00]
Kenan
Okay. Yes, I would. Yes, it is a car. I do use it as one. I know. I am very particular about it, but I, I. Especially on road trips. Like, it's, it's fine. I have no problem.
[64:10]
Doug DeMuro
Get him out of the comments. Make him. Make him stop looking at his computer. He's cheating. And looking at the questions.
[64:15]
Kenan
He is. He is. He cheats at everything. It's unbelievable.
[64:18]
Doug DeMuro
Okay, Kenneth. Kenneth. All right, here's a good poll. Somebody just gave us a bunch of would you rathers like. And I'm just going to fire him off and I want you both to answer and I'll answer two and then we'll move on to the next one.
[64:26]
Kenan
Okay.
[64:26]
Filippo
Okay.
[64:27]
Doug DeMuro
F430 versus Gallardo F430.
[64:31]
Kenan
Both eager or both sticks matter?
[64:33]
Doug DeMuro
Does it matter?
[64:34]
Kenan
Yeah, Really? I think it does.
[64:37]
Doug DeMuro
Okay. They're both stick.
[64:38]
Kenan
Both stick Garda.
[64:39]
Filippo
What about they're both equal?
[64:40]
Doug DeMuro
What? You take a stick guard over a 430. Are you out of your mind?
[64:44]
Kenan
Yeah, the four. The 436 speeds are like. I, I like them, but I. It just is. Doesn't feel quite as right and it negates most of the purposes of the manetino. Like it doesn't really do anything then.
[64:54]
Doug DeMuro
That is one of the craziest takes I've ever heard my entire.
[64:56]
Kenan
And I don't know. Manual V10. It's. It's a rare breed. I'd be like you. Manual V10.
[65:00]
Filippo
This is insane.
[65:01]
Doug DeMuro
Said. You said 430.
[65:02]
Filippo
Right. For both. Correct. Regardless of transmission. For F1, I would choose an F430 F1 over a manual guard.
[65:08]
Kenan
But the. The E gear in the guard is really bad. And then the F430 F1, we were.
[65:12]
Doug DeMuro
Supposed to go fast on these.
[65:14]
Filippo
Okay, what Was your answer?
[65:16]
Doug DeMuro
F430. Next one. Early NSX versus early VIPER.
[65:20]
Filippo
Early NSX.
[65:21]
Doug DeMuro
NSX.
[65:23]
Kenan
I mean, the NSX is a better car. Yeah, definitely. Nsx.
[65:26]
Doug DeMuro
Yeah, but it's close. It's closer than it should be given their price differential, to be honest.
[65:30]
Kenan
Yeah, 2x.
[65:31]
Doug DeMuro
Because the NSX is double the money in an 8. I wouldn't choose a double the double.
[65:34]
Kenan
I agree.
[65:35]
Doug DeMuro
New Audi RS7 versus BMW M8 RS7 R7 hands down.
[65:40]
Filippo
Okay. I will say we had an RS7 Turo rental when we were filming some videos in Seattle and It was the first gen R7. And I was fairly disappointed, but I think I'd be disappointed by that M8 too. So R7 for a long way.
[65:52]
Doug DeMuro
So which disappointment is not going to be as bad. Okay, here's a good one, Kenan. Here's a good one for you. Original Audi R8 versus Shelby GT GT350.
[65:59]
Kenan
Oh, that is a tough one. That's tough one. I think I probably would go for the R8. I like the GT350 a ton. I just. It is a lot of stigma to deal with.
[66:10]
Filippo
What if it's an R8 tip and.
[66:12]
Kenan
Those motors are very fragile?
[66:14]
Doug DeMuro
Oh, yeah. I wasn't even thinking of tip. If it's tip, I picked the Mustang.
[66:17]
Kenan
Yeah, they picked the Mustang.
[66:18]
Doug DeMuro
I would pick the R8 though, over the GT350. But when I first saw that, I was like, original, Right. Versus a Mustang. That's stupid. And then I looked at. That's a tough one. It's actually tougher than you might think. Filippo, what's your answer?
[66:31]
Filippo
I would pick. If It's a tip. R8, I would pick the GG350. And by the way, price point wise, it would have to be a tip.
[66:36]
Kenan
Otherwise. Otherwise they are.
[66:38]
Filippo
Yeah.
[66:38]
Doug DeMuro
Here's one. That'll be half the comments. E46 M3 versus new M5. New M5. Kenan, you can take the M3. Go ahead. Come on.
[66:47]
Kenan
Yep. E46 all day.
[66:49]
Filippo
Filippo, I'm thinking, oh, my God, the.
[66:53]
Kenan
E46 is no longer depreciating. It's on the appreciation curve. The M5 will depreciate a lot and you'll have to suffer with that. And that's worse. And it'll probably be equally as unreliable. Let's be honest.
[67:02]
Filippo
I think I'd choose M5.
[67:04]
Kenan
Yikes.
[67:05]
Filippo
It's actually usable for my life in a way that the A46 is.
[67:08]
Kenan
Manual. Manual. No, manual.
[67:09]
Filippo
I know, I know.
[67:11]
Doug DeMuro
Okay, could have been. Next question. By the way, that question is from Kendall Kendil. Next question from Liberty. What car company has the worst naming structure? So he's asking, is Audi or BMW or is Audi or Mercedes Benz worse? Filippo. What? What do you think? I mean, they're both bad, right?
[67:30]
Filippo
Audi has been the most variable, and that makes it bad. Once you start naming cars the Audi A430 or A4 50, 60, 70, and it has no connection to anything.
[67:40]
Doug DeMuro
However, it's bad. However, don't forget eqs, eqs, suv.
[67:44]
Filippo
Point taken. And also, Audi has changed again. For the i5 being electric and the. The a5 being electric and the a4 being being. Nobody knows anymore because they've broken their own rules. At least Mercedes is consistent with poor and poor naming. Yeah.
[67:59]
Doug DeMuro
Even odd. And.
[68:00]
Filippo
But it's not actually because the A6 is available both.
[68:03]
Doug DeMuro
And remember the E Tron SUV and.
[68:05]
Filippo
I do, I do. That was bad.
[68:07]
Kenan
Yeah.
[68:08]
Doug DeMuro
And then they had to name it the Q80 Tron because, surprise, surprise, they came up with more than one electric SUV. I don't know. I still don't know what BMWs do with the IX.
[68:16]
Kenan
Just because the people who came up with the original naming structures have since retired and now new people are just, just like screwing with it and they don't realize, like, there was like a way.
[68:24]
Filippo
There was no original naming structure.
[68:25]
Doug DeMuro
They thought, I think the new people just washed their hands up. It's not a brilliant naming structure. Unlike Saab 900, whose naming structure was absolutely brilliant. Do you know what it is, Filippo?
[68:36]
Filippo
The. The 900. The number of digits after the 9 is what mattered.
[68:40]
Doug DeMuro
There was the 90 and then there was the 900 and then there was the 9000. And rather than name a car the 90,000, they just called. Called it the 9 5. And if you've ever wondered why the 95 is called the 9 5, that is actually and truly the answer.
[68:54]
Kenan
Wow. Such a successful naming strategy. They're thriving today.
[68:59]
Filippo
Well, products matter too.
[69:01]
Kenan
Products do matter.
[69:03]
Doug DeMuro
Products were good. Kenan and I, they were good at the end.
[69:06]
Kenan
They were great.
[69:07]
Doug DeMuro
We Almost bought a 94X together. New. We actually went to the factory in Mexico. We did a factory delivery thing and then the bottom fell out.
[69:15]
Kenan
What can you do?
[69:17]
Filippo
Of the market or of the car? Both.
[69:20]
Doug DeMuro
The car. Car. Yeah. Here's a question from ACR 600 BHP. The questions were so good this week. Here's a question. Do you remember any standout cars driven by students at your high schools? Were there custom cars, crazy first cars, Cars that people got in trouble with?
[69:37]
Kenan
I remember some. Well, I mean, my friend Ryan had an E39 M5 in high school. Parked that in the senior lot was one, but it was a Porsche Cayenne Turbo. My Becca had a kind Turbo, A first gen kind turbo. There was like, at the time, I mean, this was. I was in high school in 2000, like 2009 through 2013. There was. Somebody had. Oh, my friend Lee had a hundred. A face of 100 Series Land Cruiser. It was so cool. That was one of my favorite cars.
[70:07]
Doug DeMuro
You believe this crapo? Everybody is. Everybody's always getting on me like, oh, Doug's got rich parents. When I went to high school, nobody.
[70:15]
Filippo
Do you.
[70:15]
Doug DeMuro
Did anybody in your high school have a Cayenne Turbo? I remember there was a kid, there was a girl named Leslie whose parents got her a new Kia Spectra. And everybody was like, oh, she's rich. She got a new car. Like the mere concept. I'm dead serious, Joe. I'm not. My Volvo 850 was the most powerful car at my high school with 220 horsepower, front wheel drive, automatic.
[70:35]
Kenan
Oh, that reminds me. There was a GTV6. There's an alpha.
[70:40]
Filippo
How weird. That made it.
[70:41]
Doug DeMuro
What was it like in Madison, Wisconsin?
[70:43]
Filippo
There we lived in a city. So walk to school, as did most of my friends. And you could park, but you had to like park a mile, basically. I lived about a mile away. You have to park most of the way to my house to actually get a parking spot. And so some kids drove, but nothing that special. And like teachers also parked in that same stretch. And the only. There was a substitute teacher that had a cat. First gen Cadillac srx. That sticks with me.
[71:06]
Doug DeMuro
Oh, yeah, those.
[71:07]
Filippo
Somebody had a. Had a.
[71:08]
Doug DeMuro
What was it, Felipa? What was the name of your high.
[71:10]
Filippo
School there in Madison West High School? School.
[71:12]
Doug DeMuro
Madison West High School. All right. Okay. Madison West. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay.
[71:20]
Filippo
Nobody had anything great. There were. There were a bunch of like, weird, quirky, like, academics owned these or owned these and then passed on to child corps.
[71:27]
Doug DeMuro
Is that. Is that a. Is that a cemetery there next to your high school?
[71:32]
Filippo
Yeah, yeah. I walked by that cemetery every day.
[71:34]
Doug DeMuro
Oh, God, that's morbid. Jesus. No, Kenneth, Kenneth. Right, right in the cemetery, there's a golf course. I swear to God, they were like, hey, you know what? We've already got grass.
[71:44]
Kenan
What are they gonna hit somebody?
[71:46]
Doug DeMuro
You know, the golf course is maybe a mourner.
[71:49]
Kenan
You have to whisper four there.
[71:50]
Filippo
When you golf courses past the cemetery, they don't.
[71:54]
Doug DeMuro
Wait. I'm looking at the street. I'm looking at the satellite. They're right next. Like, like hold looks like number seven. You're hitting it. You're hitting it. Amongst the gravestone.
[72:02]
Filippo
Incredibly, there are actually two cemeteries. And I was referring to the other cemeteries across the street.
[72:07]
Doug DeMuro
Oh, my God. Okay. I. I've always heard these stories about these people who. In high school there were all these incredibly nice cars. And I've never. I'm astonished that it ever happened. I. I would never buy my high school student up any of these vehicles.
[72:21]
Kenan
I mean, don't, don't forget, like, kind. Turbo had depreciated pretty significantly by that point. It wasn't that expensive of a car. The E39.5 was 500 horse V8.
[72:28]
Doug DeMuro
It's a 500 horse V8. And Ryan's got a four horse V8.
[72:31]
Kenan
Yeah, that's true. Well, it's more shocking is the parents, the kids have these cars, but we.
[72:36]
Doug DeMuro
Never got any of this stuff. Even if they could afford it with Their own money. Nope. You're getting a. You're getting a Hyundai Santa Fe, first gen, with the grab handle on the tailgate. Felipe knows what I'm talking.
[72:45]
Filippo
I know exactly what you're talking about.
[72:47]
Kenan
A lot of Civics, though. A lot of civics, yeah, lots of stuff.
[72:49]
Filippo
The people that drove to school are the ones that lived a little bit further out, and, like, they had hand me down. Yeah, well, I didn't Imprezas.
[72:55]
Kenan
I didn't have a car till February of my senior year. I drove my dad's chefy, Malibu Max, to high school. It was green and it was.
[73:01]
Filippo
I walked.
[73:02]
Kenan
I was.
[73:03]
Filippo
It was uphill in the way home.
[73:04]
Kenan
Both ways.
[73:05]
Filippo
There's only uphill one way. Downhill.
[73:08]
Doug DeMuro
You know what I was thinking about when people say that? Uphill both ways. Okay. You're here, and your high school's here. If there is just one hill that goes like this, then it's technically uphill both ways, so. Really? Okay. All right. I want to talk about. I want to do two more questions. Maybe three if they're really good, but two more questions. One of them is, oh, for Kenan and Filippo, before Cars and Bids, you guys didn't have a very large online presence. How do you like being on the podcast and interacting with fans in your everyday lives? Lives?
[73:35]
Kenan
Well, I. I. It's a good question. I did do stuff online before with e39source and stuff like that, so I did meet people and actually a lot of my friends that way. But it's really nice. Everybody who's come up to me is very gracious, and if you ever see me around, just come up and say hello. I don't. I don't bite. But everybody is. Everybody's been really nice, and it's also very. It's. It's really heartwarming how many people listen to the podcast and enjoy, like, listening to us. Just. I mean, this is what we do anyway. We just talk about cars. We don't have a new segment necessarily when we talk cars, but, like Philippa. Well, Felipe likes to work in as much car business news as he can into every conversation. But, no, I'm just touched that people listen to us and enjoy listening to us, and I'm very appreciative for it. So. And I have a good time. I get to hang out with my friends.
[74:18]
Filippo
I will say I'm always happy to talk to people, and I love talking to people about cars. I just. In my head, this is just the three of us chatting, and I don't think about Totally. The fact that 250,000 people a week listen to us, it just, like, doesn't.
[74:31]
Doug DeMuro
What.
[74:32]
Filippo
It's just something we do.
[74:33]
Doug DeMuro
Okay, fine, but what about.
[74:34]
Filippo
I come to work some days, I record a podcast.
[74:36]
Doug DeMuro
What about people coming down the street because Kenan said he doesn't bite, but you. You do.
[74:40]
Kenan
Be careful.
[74:43]
Doug DeMuro
Got arrested in 2014 for biting. This was in Tallahassee.
[74:46]
Kenan
That's right. He had to wear the for a while.
[74:49]
Filippo
Understanding. Judge said it would never get come. Would never come out.
[74:54]
Doug DeMuro
No.
[74:54]
Filippo
I love talking to people when. When they come and say hi. Please feel free to, like, say hi. Like, I don't think about this as a. I don't think that I will ever get. I do get recognized when I go to car events. I don't. It's not like a thing that I think about. I legitimately just come to work and do the rest of my job. And then sometimes that includes filming a podcast.
[75:10]
Doug DeMuro
Do you. What do people say? Like, do they know how to say your name?
[75:13]
Kenan
Yeah, but 20 bucks as they don't know how to spell it.
[75:16]
Doug DeMuro
What about Ken and what about you? Do they know. Do they ever call you by the wrong name because your name is odd?
[75:20]
Kenan
No, no. Everybody calls me by. Everybody calls me McKennan, which is very, very nice. I realize it's a weird name. My father's Ken. My mom. My father's name is Ken. My mother's name is Nancy. Ken. Nan. That's where it comes from.
[75:29]
Filippo
I will say. The other week, I was at Cars and Coffee here in San Diego, and somebody stopped me and said, oh, you're from the Smoking Tire. And I'm honored because Zach Clavin is incredibly funny. So if they think that I'm him, Right.
[75:40]
Kenan
Zach is one of the funniest people also.
[75:43]
Filippo
They think that I'm Matt Farrell. I'm also quite okay with that.
[75:45]
Kenan
And I love. I love Matt. It's one of the only. I love the Smoking Tire.
[75:48]
Doug DeMuro
That's okay. Next question. I want to do one, maybe two more if you guys are lucky. Next question. Doug with. From Big Toe Ghost. Doug, with an unlimited checkbook balance, is there a vehicle you would buy just for the investment? Not to drive, not to take cars and coffee. Just for the investment. Ken. And I'll let you take this one on my.
[76:07]
Kenan
Let me calculate that, you know, carry the one. No, I don't think there's one car you'd buy because you like to use your cars. And that's like.
[76:14]
Doug DeMuro
Yeah, I don't. I. If I'm gonna Invest. I'm gonna invest in stuff that I think will appreciate better, like my burgeoning art career. Really?
[76:23]
Kenan
You need to sign it and number it one of one.
[76:26]
Doug DeMuro
Yeah, you know what? You know what? I'm. Some lucky fan is gonna get this.
[76:30]
Filippo
Oh, I thought I was getting it.
[76:32]
Doug DeMuro
No, no, no. Now I'm realizing what I could do with my power here.
[76:36]
Filippo
It's a good drawing.
[76:37]
Kenan
It's a pretty good drawing. I kind of want it. May I have the first one?
[76:41]
Doug DeMuro
You know what?
[76:42]
Kenan
We have two originals in the office. The Courage ET and you can have.
[76:46]
Doug DeMuro
What I would refer to as my prototype.
[76:48]
Kenan
Oh, no.
[76:49]
Doug DeMuro
Which was.
[76:51]
Kenan
I'm glad you value our friendship so much. Can we share our birthday? And this is what you've gotten me.
[76:56]
Filippo
I should also note yesterday when you all are listening to this was Kenan's birthday and Doug's birthday. Happy birthday.
[77:02]
Kenan
Great day to be born.
[77:03]
Doug DeMuro
Belated birthday. How old are you? You're like 40 or. I'm 40. Somebody is.
[77:07]
Kenan
I'm approaching my mental age of 75. So every day, a day closer.
[77:12]
Filippo
10 out of 10. Turning 30 on 22nd.
[77:14]
Doug DeMuro
Is that right? You're turning 37.
[77:15]
Kenan
That's correct, yeah.
[77:16]
Doug DeMuro
What are we going to do? Felipe, you got him a gift.
[77:19]
Filippo
Yeah.
[77:20]
Kenan
No, there's no need for gifts. His friendship and. And facial expressions when I say something ridiculous are present enough for me.
[77:27]
Filippo
My guest.
[77:27]
Doug DeMuro
I want to ask. I want to. I want to add you one more very short question which is a good one that I think is a legitimate car question that is worth covering. From Mike Cape Cod. The Jeep Trackhawk market remains very strong with used models often selling above msr. Do you think this market will ever cool down or did the Hellcat everything trend, including Durango models, create a segment that will attain its value? You know, I got to be honest, when the Trackhawk came out, you guys can weigh on this, but when the Trackhawk came out, I was like, this is going to be the best $38,000 used car. Because that's what happened with the Hellcat. And it's a Dodge and they all lose value like crazy or a Jeep, but the same. And boy, did they not. You look at Trackhawks, it's wild. They are still selling it. About MSR, RP, these are 5 year old cars now.
[78:09]
Kenan
It is shocking. I've always wanted one. I've always.
[78:12]
Filippo
I don't understand it neither.
[78:14]
Kenan
I. Well, I mean, yeah, I. I guess I understand. They didn't make that many of them.
[78:18]
Doug DeMuro
That's right.
[78:19]
Kenan
And there's really no Comparison point for it, if that's what you want.
[78:22]
Filippo
The Durango SRT Hellcat.
[78:24]
Doug DeMuro
But that also value, incredibly, that was.
[78:26]
Filippo
Limited production until Dodge said they weren't going to make a 2023 model and then did.
[78:31]
Doug DeMuro
Well, that's that. You know what? You're taking a position. That's a lawsuit. I'm not going to get into that personally. All right? I don't need a cease and desist, for God's sake.
[78:40]
Filippo
Dodge doesn't have the money.
[78:44]
Doug DeMuro
But regardless, that market has been incredibly successful, despite the fact that the cars with that motor have depreciated pretty significantly. Except for the really special ones. I don't understand it. Personally, I'm astonished that it happened. And I wish I had bought a Trackhawk new. I could have been driving around losing no money except on fuel, where you spend $46,000aminute.
[79:03]
Filippo
It's also interesting because other manufacturers have made incredibly powerful SUV SUVs. Yeah, the, the, the AMG, all the AMG SUVs. The, the X5N that, they're all huge and they drop incredibly. And EVs are incredibly powerful. Although I suspected the market for a Jeep Trackhawk and a Rivian R1S quad motor.
[79:24]
Doug DeMuro
Yeah, but the point is the same. What is the, what is the thing driving the Trackhawk's value? It's the, it's the power level. And so that individual vehicle, so, so valuable. I, I, I'm annoyed by it, honestly. As an enthusiast who wanted to see Those in the 40s, I agree. I don't want to buy one, but I want it to be an option.
[79:43]
Filippo
Right.
[79:43]
Kenan
You want someone in the group to have one?
[79:46]
Doug DeMuro
Yeah. Like if I, if I want, if I want to park something next to my Sequoia and my gun rack and my frame poster of Trump, I want it to be a trap hawk. And right now, it's not an attainable price point.
[79:57]
Filippo
I know, it's sad. It's a damn shame if the economy collapses. They'd be, maybe it'll be more affordable.
[80:02]
Doug DeMuro
I don't think so. It doesn't seem like that's holding it up. Okay, Filippo, do you have any final parting thoughts for us?
[80:10]
Filippo
It's nice to see you in a small room, big personality, small space. It's nice to see it happen. And also, of course, this podcast is brought to you by Cars and Bits, the best place to buy and sell cool cars.
[80:21]
Doug DeMuro
I'm glad we're working that in. Right at the end when everybody's turning it off.
[80:24]
Filippo
I try.
[80:24]
Doug DeMuro
I try. Well, we did a great job getting our name out there today and I can't wait for next week. Next week we'll put it about 4 minutes earlier at the right at the 1 hour, 12 minute mark.
[80:35]
Filippo
Smart. Also, happy birthday to you, Ken. And happy birthday to you, Doug.
[80:38]
Kenan
Thank you, Felipe. Best, best podcast we've ever done. I can't wait to see what art you come up with next week, Doug.
[80:44]
Doug DeMuro
I can wait.
[80:45]
Kenan
Draw something good. Give me good.
[80:47]
Doug DeMuro
Goodbye, everyone.
[80:48]
Kenan
Goodbye.
[80:58]
Doug DeMuro
Sam.