Podcast Summary: This Is Actually Happening, Ep. 383 – “What if you survived Jeffrey Epstein?”
Date: November 11, 2025
Host: Whit Misseldine (Wondery)
Featured Guest: Lisa Phillips
Overview
This harrowing episode centers on Lisa Phillips, a survivor of Jeffrey Epstein’s abuse. Lisa recounts her journey through the modeling industry, the emotional and psychological grooming she experienced, and the challenges she faced during and after her encounters with Epstein. The episode is a raw, unflinching account not only of abuse but also of the long, difficult path toward healing, self-acceptance, and empowerment.
Key Discussion Points & Insights
1. Lisa’s Early Life & Modeling Aspirations
- (03:24–09:00) Lisa describes a multicultural upbringing between New York, England, and Europe. Despite hands-on parenting, she experienced a lack of emotional validation and felt unseen, shaping her desire to seek affirmation externally, especially through modeling and pageantry.
- Lisa highlights both privilege and absence: “I was definitely loved... But ‘I’m proud of you’ and ‘I love you’—those words of affirmation... I didn’t really get growing up.” (06:10)
2. Entry into Fashion Industry
- (09:00–13:00) Moving from Miami to New York, Lisa flourished as a mixed-race model, finding early success. She was, however, quickly exposed to the industry's dark underbelly: rampant drug use, sexual harassment, and predatory behaviors normalized by agents and other models.
- “I was just adored by the way that I looked... I was always wearing a mask. It wasn’t really the true me.” (11:32)
3. First Encounter with Epstein - The Island
- (13:00–20:15) During a magazine shoot in Tortola (BVI), another model invited Lisa to Epstein’s private island. Initially, she was charmed by his attention and what seemed like mentorship.
- “[Epstein] started asking me some deeper questions... It was more of a mentorship, fatherly... It didn’t feel like he was attracted to me.” (16:20)
4. Assault and the Mechanism of Grooming
- (19:04–23:30) Lisa is coerced into giving Epstein a massage. The situation escalates to sexual assault alongside another model.
- She details the particular psychological trap: “When you’re on an island, you are trapped. You can’t go anywhere. I don’t know this person, what he’s capable of.... I was frozen, basically.” (19:04)
- The normalization and concealment by other victims is clear: “She was just like, ‘It’s okay. This is Jeffrey. This is what he likes.’” (20:10)
5. Aftermath: Shame, Self-Destruction, and Continued Manipulation
- (23:31–32:00) Lisa describes her disintegration in the aftermath—shame, self-harm, substance abuse, and the sense of being “damaged.” Epstein’s team relentlessly pursues her to return, leveraging promises and professional opportunities.
- “After that trip, I started to abuse myself. Now I was in their world. Because now I felt really worthless and full of shame. Now I was damaged.” (22:10)
- Epstein manipulated her career ambitions—referring her to Katie Ford, leading to Lisa joining Ford Models, after which the web of coercion, implicit threat, and further abuse deepened.
6. Pattern of Control, Networking, and Complicity
- (32:01–35:00) Epstein, through introductions and his network (including modeling agencies and celebrities), orchestrated situations for further abuse and exploitation.
- “There was so many weird things going on between 2000 and 2003.” (34:36)
- Ghislaine Maxwell is mentioned as a creepy, intimidating presence and a facilitator within the ring.
7. Awareness and Breaking Away
- (35:00–38:30) The turning point arrives when a friend reveals forced sexual acts involving high-profile individuals (including a prince). Lisa connects the dots, recognizes patterns of trafficking and blackmail, and decides to end all contact—moving across the country to escape.
- “That was the darkest I saw Jeffrey... He tried to show me that you’re going to be quiet, you’re not going to say anything. So I left. And I left in a lot of fear that day.” (38:10)
8. Suppression, Survival, and Solo Healing
- (38:30–43:00) Lisa describes the years of emotional suppression, focusing on motherhood, moving away from the industry, and not speaking of Epstein’s abuse—even to her husband.
- “We raised our kids to this day. But there was no vulnerability, no deep talks... I would never say in a million years anything about Jeffrey Epstein.” (41:20)
9. Triggered by Epstein’s Death — Path to Speaking Out
- (43:57–47:05) In 2019, upon the news of Epstein’s alleged suicide, Lisa has an emotional breakdown, struggling with the complexity of Stockholm syndrome and suppressed trauma.
- She experiences further re-traumatization by a new partner’s rejection: “He put his hand literally in my face... ‘I don’t want to hear about it.’” (47:05)
10. Connecting with Other Survivors & Understanding the Larger System
- (47:06–50:00) Lisa connects with other survivors, uncovering the deeper scope of trafficking within the modeling world, implicating high-level agents, agencies, and celebrities.
- “There was kind of a sex trafficking ring going on in the modeling industry... That’s why I stood up in Congress.” (49:35)
- Lisa stresses the deliberate, piecemeal release of information by authorities and the extent of Epstein’s documentation (flight logs, surveillance).
11. Additional Betrayal & Power of Therapy
- (50:01–54:30) Lisa details a subsequent abusive relationship with a man who fetishized her victimization, leading to further betrayal and a crisis of trust.
- EMDR therapy becomes her turning point: “Once I owned it and I started talking about it, wow, the shame... it just falls away from you.” (54:18)
12. Empowerment, Advocacy, and Reclaiming Worth
- (54:31–56:35) Today, Lisa stands as an advocate, supporting survivors, speaking before Congress, and hosting survivor-focused platforms.
- She identifies the core of her healing: “You don’t have to be stuck in victim mode... It is my responsibility to understand why I’m making these choices... Even though some things may not be our fault, coming into this beautiful power that I’m coming into is also being responsible for all of it.” (54:55)
- Lisa’s closing message to survivors: “Know your worth. Nobody else defines it but you. And it’s not your fault.” (56:20)
Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments
-
On Grooming & Control:
“Going into that room with Jeffrey Epstein, I had liked the guy because he had spent hours talking to me and making me feel comfortable... He had worked me, so I was confused about him.” (20:00) -
On Exploitation’s Normalcy:
“I saw a lot of very famous people doing a lot of drugs... agents at the time would give the models drugs... I had experienced sexual harassment quite a few times, and that’s something we would talk about with the other models... it was kind of just accepted.” (09:55–12:48) -
On Shame and Self-Blame:
“That was probably the first time I felt like blaming myself completely, because maybe I was too flirty with him, maybe I deserved it... I just felt ashamed, major shame.” (21:44) -
On the System’s Complicity:
“Katie Ford at that time was like, the owner of the biggest and best modeling agency. She was like, ‘I love Jeffrey...’ That was the validation I needed. And I was like, yeah, that was probably the turning point of kind of forgetting what happened.” (26:40) -
On Power & Responsibility:
“It wasn’t my fault, it’s not your fault, but it is a responsibility... Not only for the relationship I’m in, for my children that I’m raising. It’s our responsibility.” (55:00) -
On Letting Go & Moving Forward:
“The hardest part for me in therapy is having to admit I’m probably not going to get the love I desired from my parents and maybe even from a partner... Just letting go of that part of me.” (55:40)
Timestamps for Important Segments
- Lisa’s background & early modeling career: 03:24–13:00
- Epstein island invitation, grooming & first assault: 13:00–20:15, 19:04–23:30
- Aftermath and second phase of abuse: 23:31–32:00
- Systemic trafficking, moving away: 32:01–38:30
- Suppression, motherhood, survival: 38:31–43:00
- Triggered by Epstein’s death & new abuse: 43:57–47:05, 50:01–54:30
- Connecting with survivors & advocacy: 47:06–50:00, 54:31–56:35
Conclusion & Tone
Lisa’s story, told in her own voice, is both devastating and powerfully resilient. She explores childhood wounds, the layered traumas of exploitation, the complex manipulations of predators like Epstein, and the complicity of elite circles. Through therapy and speaking out, Lisa finds her power and advocates for others.
Her message to survivors is clear, inspiring, and hard-won:
“Know your worth. Nobody else defines it but you. And it’s not your fault... Once you can just own that, you really do step into a whole other level of power.” (56:20)
This episode offers deep insight into the psychology of abuse, the structural issues that enable it, and the path to reclaiming one’s self.