Podcast Summary: This Is Actually Happening

Episode 397: What if you forgave the neo-Nazi who killed your father?
Date: January 27, 2026
Guest: Pardeep Singh Kaleka
Producer: Pauline Bartolone, in collaboration with the Greater Good Science Center at UC Berkeley
Main Theme:
This episode features the story of Pardeep Singh Kaleka, who lost his father in the 2012 mass shooting at the Sikh Temple of Wisconsin. The conversation centers on how Pardeep and his community grappled with grief, anger, and loss, ultimately finding a path to healing—not only through forgiveness, but through activism and an unlikely friendship with a former neo-Nazi.

Episode Overview

This episode narrates the aftermath of a traumatic hate-driven tragedy through one man’s journey: Pardeep Singh Kaleka. The story traces his family’s immigration from Punjab to Milwaukee, the deep trauma of losing his father in a mass shooting, and Pardeep’s decision to pursue healing by confronting hate with compassion—including the act of connecting with a former white supremacist. The episode explores themes of forgiveness, community resilience, empathy, and the complexities of individual and collective identity in the face of extremism.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Family, Immigration, and Identity

• Background: Pardeep recounts his family’s life in Punjab, their immigration to Milwaukee in 1982, and his father’s dedication to the Sikh community.
  • The struggle with assimilation and never feeling “enough” of any identity—American, Sikh, Punjabi, or otherwise.
  • Quote: "I never, ever felt enough of anything...there's so many people that I've run into, and they say the same thing, like, I don't feel enough." (07:43, Pardeep Kaleka)

2. Building Community and Leadership

• Pardeep’s father, Satwant Singh Kaleka, was central to growing the Sikh community in Wisconsin, establishing the Oak Creek temple, and fostering a sense of home for immigrants.
  • Community members respected his father as a peacemaker and selfless leader.

3. Personal Calling and Professional Life

• Pardeep’s sense of powerlessness as a young immigrant informed his decision to become a police officer:
  • “The world is full of good people. The world is full of bad people. And if you can become a good person, then maybe somehow, some way you can protect those other good people from the bad people by locking them up.” (13:06, Pardeep Kaleka)
• Disillusionment with policing led him to teaching, aiming to serve his community through youth education.

4. The Day of the Oak Creek Sikh Temple Shooting (August 5, 2012)

• Vivid, hour-by-hour recounting of the events:
  • Pardeep’s delayed arrival to the temple—due to his daughter’s forgotten notebook—may have saved their lives.
  • The chaotic, traumatic unfolding as he learns of the shooting and tries to locate his parents.
  • “I got the experience of empathy.” (00:50, Pardeep Kaleka)
• The shooter, Wade Michael Page, a known white supremacist, killed six and wounded many, including police—then took his own life.

5. Collective Trauma and Community Response

• Describes the days after the shooting—open ceremonies, communal grieving, and national support.
• Decision not to define the community by this act of hate, but rather by love, resilience, and the Sikh principle of chardi kala (relentless optimism).
  • "We shall be relentlessly optimistic and work not just pray, but work for the peace and prosperity of all mankind." (35:40, Pardeep Kaleka)
  • The choice to refuse narrative of victimhood or hatred.

6. The Complexities of Forgiveness and Healing

• Confronted with requests to clarify that Sikhs aren’t Muslims, Pardeep insists solidarity with all targets of hate:
  • “If any community is being attacked, we're that community...that goes into who we fundamentally are as Sikhs.” (38:10, Pardeep Kaleka)

7. Reaching Across the Divide: Meeting a Former Neo-Nazi

• Pardeep’s curiosity about the mindset behind the shooting led him to meet Arno Michaelis, founder of the Milwaukee Hammerskin chapter, to seek answers and healing.
  • The first in-person meeting broke the ice, establishing unexpected empathy and mutual humanity:
    • “What people want are explanations. But what I got was so much deeper than an explanation. I got the experience of empathy.” (46:16, Pardeep Kaleka)
  • Learning that “hurt people, hurt people” became foundational to their bond and subsequent collaboration.

8. Serve 2 Unite: Dialogue, Education, Activism

• Together, Pardeep and Arno founded Serve 2 Unite, engaging students in conversations about hate, trauma, and healing.
  • Their joint appearances powerfully modeled vulnerability and reconciliation, showing people, including traumatized members of the Sikh community, that change and bridge-building are possible.
  • “Here you saw two older men who are from different parts of the world...the least likely to come together...Important for us to model that vulnerability.” (50:03, Arno Michaelis)
• Confronting community apprehension: some Sikh members were initially resistant to inviting white people, especially those with supremacist backgrounds, into their healing spaces.
  • Pardeep persisted, serving as a role model for transformative justice and dialogue.

9. Forgiveness as Personal and Collective Reclamation

• Forgiveness is reframed not as absolution or weakness, but as a form of reclaiming power from hate.
  • “It was to say that we release you from our future. You don't hold us hostage. You don't hold any place in our existence that we feel like you have any power. Over. We've grieved, we've moved forward. We're free.” (58:20, Pardeep Kaleka)
• Pardeep’s daughter voices profound insight at the 10-year vigil:
  • “You didn’t hate me, you hated yourself.” (approx. 55:07, Pardeep quoting his daughter)

10. Looking Forward—Reclaiming Humanity

• The Sikh community in Oak Creek has grown threefold since the attack, carrying a message of strength and intentionality.
• Final reflections:
  • “Our community was able to really come out and say that they forgive Wade Page...it was to say that we release you from our future. You don't hold us hostage.” (58:20, Pardeep Kaleka)

Notable Timestamps & Quotes

• 00:50 – “What people want are explanations, but what I got was so much deeper than an explanation. I got the experience of empathy.” (Pardeep Kaleka)
• 07:43 – “I never, ever felt enough of anything ... like, I don't feel enough.” (Pardeep Kaleka)
• 13:06 – “If you can become a good person, then maybe somehow, some way you can protect those other good people from the bad people by locking them up.” (Pardeep Kaleka)
• 35:40 – On “chardi kala”: “We shall be relentlessly optimistic and work not just pray, but work for the peace and prosperity of all mankind.” (Pardeep Kaleka)
• 38:10 – “If any community is being attacked, we're that community ... that goes into who we fundamentally are as Sikhs.” (Pardeep Kaleka)
• 46:16 – “What people want are explanations. But what I got was so much deeper than an explanation. I got the experience of empathy.” (Pardeep Kaleka)
• 50:03 – “Here you saw two older men who are from different parts of the world...the least likely to come together...Important for us to model that vulnerability.” (Arno Michaelis)
• 55:07 – “[My daughter said:] ‘You didn’t hate me, you hated yourself.’” (Pardeep Kaleka quoting his daughter)
• 58:20 – “It was to say that we release you from our future. You don't hold us hostage. You don't hold any place in our existence that we feel like you have any power. Over. We've grieved, we've moved forward. We're free.” (Pardeep Kaleka)

Memorable Moments

• The delayed trip to the temple—caused by Pardeep's daughter—potentially saving their lives.
• Emotional recounting of the chaos and fear during the shooting and the immediate aftermath.
• Describing the moment Pardeep’s mother collapsed in grief upon learning the truth about her husband’s death.
• The first meeting with Arno Michaelis, and the instant vulnerability shown when Arno asks Pardeep about an accidental eye injury—breaking expected stereotypes.
• The transformation from rage and anger to active peacemaking, led both personally and within the community.

Conclusion

This episode is a profound exploration of trauma, the complexity of personal and community identities, and the radical possibilities of forgiveness. Pardeep Singh Kaleka's journey—embracing pain while refusing to let hate define his life or his community—is both an intimate personal story and a call to sustained, shared humanity.

For further information and resources, see the episode show notes and connect with Pardeep Singh Kaleka through the provided channels.