And, This Is A Country In Crisis With Keith Edwards

Summary

---

Podcast Summary: "This Is Gavin Newsom" – And, This Is A Country In Crisis With Keith Edwards

iHeartPodcasts – January 30, 2026

---

Episode Overview

In this honest and wide-ranging episode, California Governor Gavin Newsom sits down with progressive commentator, YouTuber, and former political staffer Keith Edwards to discuss America’s current moment of anxiety and division. The conversation explores personal resilience, digital activism, political communication, and the nature of persuasion in a country deeply at odds with itself. The two grapple with the nation's collective trauma, the importance of authenticity, lessons from the right wing’s media apparatus, and the power (and pitfalls) of online influence. The episode is driven by a spirit of empathy, candor, and the belief that transformational change comes from the people, not just politicians.

---

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Personal Backstories and Emotional Weight (00:22–16:29)

• Living in D.C. and New York
  Keith Edwards details feeling out of place in Washington, D.C., highlighting how New York draws a self-selecting set of resilient, intentional people.
• Feeling Weighed Down by Political Turmoil
  Both speakers acknowledge the emotional toll of recent events, referencing the cumulative trauma of high-profile acts of violence and political unrest.
  • Keith (03:50): "I just feel... not destroyed, but I feel very beaten down by everything I’ve been seeing. And I feel a responsibility to stay strong for my audience, but I do feel it weighing on me emotionally."
• Personal Loss and Resilience
  Keith shares about his strained family background, the murder of his younger sister, and how therapy changed the course of his life.
  • Keith (14:39): "When she passed away, I got into therapy... It changed my life."
• Discussion on the duality of inspiration and desperation as motivators for radical life changes.

---

2. From Reality TV to Politics: Building a Career of Adaptability (16:29–27:11)

• A Non-Linear Career Path
  Keith describes migrating from producing reality TV to launching his own production company, and, eventually, moving into politics after being galvanized by Trump's election.
  • Keith (25:38): "It was literally the moment his election... that just triggered, like, it wasn’t even like, should I; it was like, I need to."
• Skill Transfer: Storytelling, Editing, and Knowing the Moment
  Keith emphasizes how reality TV taught him to spot and distill moments—skills that directly informed his approach to political communications.
  • Keith (22:12): "...The skill of a reality TV producer is saying, 'Alright, how do we turn this into a story? What are the most interesting moments?'"

---

3. Digital Communications and Lessons from the Campaign Trail (27:11–37:28)

• Diving into Political Comms
  Keith recounts learning to manage social media and digital strategy in government roles and various campaigns—including stints at the NYC City Council, Bloomberg 2020, and the Lincoln Project.
  • Adapting quickly to new, often high-stakes roles through the willingness to "figure it out," and improvising when confronted with unfamiliar responsibilities.
• Learning to Tweet, Mastering Meme Culture
  Through the Lincoln Project, Keith began to inject more personality and meme-based communication, making political content more engaging and viral.

---

4. YouTube Success: Iteration, Authenticity, and Audience Connection (38:21–48:47)

• Starting a YouTube Channel
  Keith explains his jump into YouTube 18 months ago, motivated by a desire to try something different, focusing on daily content and personal, non-sensational communication.
  • Keith (41:58): "Time passes either way. So this was like my version of that... I'd much rather have tried than not because I know what it feels like to know that time has passed and you didn't do the thing that you could have done."
• Relentlessness, Consistency, and Rapid Growth
  • The power of consistent content—posting daily led to 100,000 subscribers in a month.
  • Keith (44:03): “That went from zero subscribers to a hundred thousand in that month.”
• The Importance of Differentiation
  Newsom and Keith discuss how creators must find and express their unique voice, not simply emulate others.
• Memorable Quote:
  • Keith (50:10): "Really figuring out how do I bring myself into this is the game changer."
  • Newsom (50:15): "Learn from, don’t follow others. Your expression’s unique. No one else has it."

---

5. Political Messaging: The Challenge for the Left (48:47–62:06)

• Asymmetry in Media & Content Packaging
  • Keith highlights how right wing creators (Ben Shapiro, Candace Owens, Megyn Kelly) package content as “normal” and shareable, while left-leaning media often resorts to hyperbolic headlines/clickbait that can be alienating.
    • Keith (56:38): “My audience would very often be like, on the really bad clickbait ones, they’d be like, 'Keith, you don’t have to do this... we’re going to watch either way.'”
  • Advocates for more credible, less sensational branding to reach persuadable audiences.
• The Reluctance of Left-Leaning Creators to Critique Their Own Side
  • Keith argues that progressive spaces often discourage deviation from party orthodoxy, limiting critical engagement and stunting the emergence of independent, dissenting voices.
    • Keith (64:09): “Who does that on the left?... I have. Yeah, I get that. Intimately. Appreciate that. Both of us in that respect.”
  • Suggests the left would be stronger if it allowed for more internal debate and a culture less focused on conformity.

---

6. Strategy and Respect for the Audience (52:46–58:47)

• Audience Relationship is Fundamental
  Keith compares his relationship with his YouTube followers to Newsom's relationship with constituents, emphasizing trust, respect, and authenticity.
  • Keith (53:43): "I have a deep humility around that. And I also have a deep... responsibility for making sure the audience gets what they need."
• Innovating Online Strategy—Aggregating and Lifting Up Positive Progressive Content
  • Keith recommends that Democrats aggregate and promote quality content from inside the movement, not just attack material from Republicans.
    • Keith (68:25): “There’s all this free content being created and one of the most useful things someone on the left could do is aggregating it and finding moments that could go viral.”

---

7. Persuasion, Conflict, and The Limits of Political Influence (71:57–76:23)

• Understanding 'The War' for Attention
  Keith and Newsom agree that digital politics is an information war, and tactics—including clickbait—vary by platform.
  • Keith (72:39): "We’re at war. And so it's important no matter what you're saying that it gets seen. Because if it's not seen, then who cares?”
• On Persuading Conservatives (and Family)
  • Keith is frank about rarely persuading diehard Trump supporters, even among his own relatives, but hopes small shifts may come in moments of national outrage or personal resonance.
    • Keith (75:12): "I don't. I mean, my. As I said, my mom is very conservative and I've not been able to persuade her... I think there have been moments where... that bothers her."
• Leading With Emotion and Story, Not Just Facts
  • Both agree that storytelling and authenticity are ultimately more persuasive than statistics and rote messaging.
    • Keith (76:19): “I'm a story. I'm a feeling."

---

8. Collective Power, Agency, and Hope for the Future (81:18–end)

• People Lead, Not Politicians

  • Keith closes with the message that real transformation comes from collective action.
    • Keith (81:44): "It is the people. The people lead. And we will decide who we want to lead us. But that is from us leading them to power."
  • Citing recent activism and voter turnout as proof that people drive real change, not just charismatic leaders:
    • Newsom (82:10): "I just hope people understand their power and understand how inspiring that power is, because people just need to see that they're not alone..."

• Emphasis on Spirituality, Purpose, and Faith-in-Action

  • The conversation ends with mutual encouragement and the importance of moving from ideals to action—and integrating spirituality and faith into the work of rebuilding democracy.
    • Newsom (84:12): "As you pray, move your feet. It's faith and works... we have agency and we can shape the future."

---

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On the Emotional Toll of National Crisis
  • Keith: “I just feel... not destroyed, but I feel very beaten down.” (03:50)
• On the Power of Relentless Iteration
  • Keith: “That went from zero subscribers to a hundred thousand in that month.” (44:03)
• On Authenticity and Differentiation
  • Newsom: “Learn from, don’t follow others. Your expression’s unique. No one else has it.” (50:15)
• On the Need for Internal Critique on the Left
  • Keith: “Who does that on the left? ...I have. Yeah, I get that. Intimately.” (64:09)
• On Leading Change
  • Keith: "It’s the people. The people lead. ...That is from us leading them to power." (81:44)

---

Timestamps for Key Segments

• Intro, Personal Backstories – 00:22–16:29
• Career Transition, Reality TV to Politics – 16:29–27:11
• Digital Campaigning & Meme Culture – 27:11–37:28
• YouTube Growth & Strategy – 38:21–48:47
• Messaging, Media Asymmetry, and the Left’s Challenge – 48:47–62:06
• Audience Trust, Content Aggregation, and Credibility – 52:46–58:47
• Information Wars & Platform Tactics – 71:57–76:23
• Agency, Collective Action, and Spirituality in Politics – 81:18–end

---

Conclusion

This episode brings a raw, human, and strategic perspective to America’s current crisis—centered on the belief that resilience, creative adaptation, and honest engagement (not just with the opposition, but within movements themselves) are essential for progress. Keith Edwards’ journey from hardship to political commentary, combined with Newsom’s insight and openness, offer listeners a blueprint for staying connected, authentic, and empowered in the face of relentless political turbulence.

---

Transcript

[A]

We just want people who are gonna fight Greg Bevino. I'm offended by him because he's trash. Do people cry on this podcast? But they do now. This is Gavin Newsom and this is Keith Edwards. This is an iHeart podcast. Guaranteed Human.

[B]

Where are you living now? In LA.

[A]

I live in DC.

[B]

DC.

[A]

I moved to New York.

[B]

All right.

[A]

Because Mamdani, you know, I don't know. No, I'm moving to New York because actually I just can't live in DC anymore.

[B]

How many years you've been in dc?

[A]

Too many. Five dog years.

[B]

Do people feel that way? Do you feel, you feel like a foreigner in D.C. or are there people from D.C. that feel like, or even, you know, been there seven, eight years, that feel like I should be.

[A]

Here's what I'm going to say. No offense to anyone who lives in dc. Yeah. But New York is a place that's self selecting. You have to, one, wanna live in New York?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Two, move there.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Not easy. Three, and then actually enjoy living there. It's not easy to live in New York. So it's a very special type of person who actually move. You don't believe me? Moves to New York and then stays. So I think it's a very, it's a self selected. Whereas DC it's like here I am, I'm in DC for something else and people just stay because it's easy.

[B]

And is it safer now than ever because of Donald Trump?

[A]

I don't know. I know it's.

[B]

Restaurants are opening every quote, unquote, every day now. It's never incredible.

[A]

Thank you, President Trump. Thank you.

[B]

Do you see, do you see armed guards? I mean, what, what is it, what is like in.

[A]

There are troops on the street? Yeah.

[B]

And is it intimidators now just becoming normalized?

[A]

Well, I have to say that I hated them at first.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

But did you see the clip of the National Guard giving out coffee and donuts and hot chocolate to the citizens of Minneapolis?

[B]

I, I've seen other clips.

[A]

Okay. Well, I have to say I actually cried when I saw that because it was such a hopeful moment to see. First off, they didn't have masks on.

[B]

Thank you.

[A]

And they were there to help people express their first amendment rights. And so I, I, and then it was like, oh, it's really interesting how like the people who call upon the military really impacts the way you perceive, perceive the troops.

[B]

Yep.

[A]

Because I was a little like these fucking people in D.C. but this is same people, you know. So it was actually a wake up call for Me.

[B]

You know, it's interesting because we. I federalized, well, before they were federalized, our National Guard in Southern California, those same Guard men and women were actually called up to help with the wildfire recovery in Los Angeles. And the same exact examples of selfies. One of the biggest challenges we had was all the food and water people coming up, thanking them for being there. These were, by the way, these National Guard men and women are firefighters, police officers, they're teachers, they're lawyers, they're folks, quite literally were pulled off those lines, those front lines to. To be there for others. And then, you know, a few months later, they're federalized and vilified, even though they were doing a few months later, few months earlier, some really important work. So it's interesting. I appreciate you trying to humanize aspects of this and not necessarily seeing the individual in a weaponized way.

[A]

How are you feeling about everything? Can I answer first.

[B]

By the way? Thank you for the question. Why don't you answer it?

[A]

I am so. I. I'm an empath.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And I feel. So. I just feel. Not destroyed, but I feel very beaten down by everything I've been seeing. And I feel a responsibility to stay strong for my audience, but I do feel it weighing on me emotionally. Do you, like. I don't under. I don't know how you, like, do you. I was.

[B]

I was. The number of people after the Preddy murder, death, however one wants to describe it, number of people that I know that broke down. I mean, men, women, people that hadn't broken down yet. I mean, physically crying, emotional about what was happening. The fact that you bring this up, I deeply appreciate that. That stacking of stress that people are feeling, that anxiety and just that sense of. Of not just loss, but hopelessness almost that, you know, this situation is now out of our control or I'm on the other side of something.

[A]

But then I think that's, like, the hope in it. Sorry, I'm gonna probably cry at some point. I'm very, very emotional. But the residents of Minneapolis stood strong, and it appears as though Trump and the goons, and they're all dissipating. I hate that it took a murder for it to happen. But what I have always loved about this country is that we are imbued with the spirit of fuck you. Can we swear? Can we swear?

[B]

It's a little late now, but.

[A]

There'S nothing more American than, like, then when someone's like, you have to do this. And you say, you make me, you know, and so I love that Minneapolis was like, you make me. Trump's realizing that that is America to the core. And so I find it to be very hopeful. But I hate. I hate what people have to go through and what we're. All. This collective trauma we're all experiencing.

[B]

Were you. I mean, it's. It's. Has it been sort of boiling. Gotten to a point where it's boiling over now for you, or has this been a slow boil? Or have you been feeling this way, you know, ever? You know, going back even to when Trump was going down the escalator? 10 years. 10 years ago? Or is it really since this latest Trump 2.0?

[A]

I think it's Trump 2.0, and I think it's the mask. I think it's just. It's just a couple of things. He has his own secret military. Let's just call it what it is. Secret police, masked. They're not even in uniforms. Like, they're not even uniforms. Just classless. Like, there's not. There's not even, like. And they're literally terrorizing Americans. So it's. It's the. It's the images of that that I think I. I didn't fully appreciate how much it was weighing on me, and I'm sure it has been for a lot of people until I actually saw what the National Guard did. It's a very simple thing, but just trying to de. Escalate.

[B]

Just that act of compassion. Compassion and humanity.

[A]

Yeah. And respecting their right to peacefully protest and to observe and what.

[B]

It's interesting. Let me unpack that a little bit more. What was. I mean, for you? It was just that in the midst of all of this, there was a flower blooming of sorts.

[A]

Of. It was just America, this country has always been complicated, but there was always this North Star of what we wanted America to be here and what we wanted it to be for countries around the world. And I thought that idea of smiling troops being there to help used to be what was like to me was like, what America is.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Or what America would strive to be. And I think that had been lost in all this. So it was like a moment where there was like a. A moment to, like, sigh, I guess. But I don't know. It's. What hap. What's happening is not great. It's not great. It's not gonna. It's not gonna stop. I know Greg Bevino. I hate that I know him. I hate that I know that he exists. It's offensive. I'm offended by him. I hate looking at him. Sorry. He's an ugly motherfucker. He looks, he looks exactly how you think he'd look. Someone who thinks, like what? Thinks what he's doing is okay. History is littered with people like that. And I say littered intentionally because he's trash. And I'm so. I'm just. I just cannot wait until round two. We will get power again. It is imperative. It is imperative. I. I know, I know. I don't know what you're doing for 2028. I don't know what you're doing. I don't know if you're running. Probably are there. I have to imagine that someone has to be an anti corruption message and we have to run on righting every single wrong that is happening right now. And that includes going after the lowest person who shoots, executes, a citizen on the street and the people who instruct them to do it.

[B]

Accountability. I want to unpack a lot of this and I want to go back a little bit because it's interesting. Just your own journey and I love you say you're an empath and you're absorbing and feeling all these things and your own journey into politics. And I want to. We'll get back to this moment and what it means and really reinforce where we began this conversation. But for you, you began not in a political frame. I mean, your journey from Michigan to New York. You talked about your reverence for wanting to live in New York and in the challenge of being in New York led you to politics. But first you stopped on the way to reality television, producing Real Housewives of. Not New York, but Miami. Miami, some other interesting reality shows. So what. I mean, talk to me a little bit about your journey. You grew up in Michigan. Was your aspiration politics? Or was it. Was it reality tv? Was it Hollywood? Where'd you happen to know?

[A]

I. Where I come from, you don't aspire. You don't aspire. I, I didn't, I didn't even know college was an option until senior year of high school. People are like, where are you going? To college. I was like, what? College. College. It is impossible that I am sitting across from you right now. It is highly improbable. I don't know if you pray or if you're religious or. I'm not religious. I'm very spiritual. And I believe in something greater than myself. And so looking at my life, the way it has unfolded, I have to believe it is for some sort of greater good because my mom's a drug addict, dad's alcoholic. It's a. You Know, classic story, barely graduated high school, don't have a college degree. And yeah, I went to New York when I was 16 and. Have you ever had love at first sight? Have you? I haven't. Except for when I went to New York for a day. I went to see the 9 11. It was still like a hole in the ground.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And you could still smell the burning and like the Burger King sign still had marks on it from the building falling nearby. And I was on the train, I was like, oh my God, I need to live here.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

And I told my family, they're like, okay, move to New York. Sure. But I did when I was 20. And so the reality TV stuff, when that happened, it was because I was in the right place at the right time and someone I knew was like, hey, do you, you know, I had, I had done a little bit of like a. Had built a little bit of something for myself prior to that. And someone I knew was impressed by what I had created and said, well, do you want to try be an associate producer for this VH1 show? And I was like, yeah. And I, I was just excited that I was going to have a career because I, I, again, like, people just don't, like, people have jobs where I'm from. You know, most. They don't have careers.

[B]

And where exactly were you from?

[A]

Warren? Michigan.

[B]

War in Michigan.

[A]

Yeah. Which is 13 mile. And Shaner. Shout out to anyone that knows where that is. But big family. Small family. Small family. Small family. And I had a sister. She. She was, she was murdered when I was 25. And so that's why I also have deep. When things like this happen, I have deep feelings because losing someone unexpectedly is awful in and of itself and grief is awful regardless of whether it happens to someone that you're expecting is going to die or whether it happens unexpectedly. But then on top of it, for it to be at the hands of someone else is like. Is something that is almost impossible to process.

[B]

And were you guys very close?

[A]

We were not extremely close because we, we, we were in a very dysfunctional family. And I think when you're in a family that's dysfunctional, it is incredibly hard. I think you just try. You're just trying to survive the day. And I think one way you do that is if you're siblings is you unite. But I think we, we just were independent and tried to do it our own ways. So we weren't extremely close.

[B]

But, but the whole process of just coping and then coping with your sister's sudden death, I Mean, yeah.

[A]

But I think she saved my life. Well, I had. When she passed away, I got into therapy, so. And that, like. Do people cry in this podcast? But they do now.

[B]

Please feel free.

[A]

Very different from Ben Shapiro.

[B]

Huh?

[A]

But. And so. And in many ways, that put me on the path I'm on now.

[B]

And you never. You never thought about seeking it prior? No. And it was out of what? Just desperation.

[A]

Desperation. I don't know if you ever experienced grief, but I was not processing the grief. And when you don't process your feelings, they come out sideways. And so I was lashing out at people, and I was. I was. It wasn't good. So. So I got into therapy. I still have the same therapist.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

15 years later. Wow. And it changed my life. Changed my life.

[B]

And how. How much younger were you than your sister?

[A]

She was actually three years younger than me.

[B]

Three years younger. So you were a little older.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And you were living in New York at the time still. Yeah. Yeah. So it's interesting.

[A]

Just.

[B]

I mean, so a remarkable background, being able to just. With your own perseverance, your own resilience, to be able to mom, dad, all their struggles. And then, of course, your own processing with your sister. But, you know, it was really. You talk about love at first sight and just this happenstance, this coming into a city and been to before, and then just seeing something, I imagine just in awe and feeling something what in yourself, just inspired.

[A]

I don't know what that thing is. I don't know what that thing is, but whatever that feeling is, I've learned to trust it. And so that's like the same feeling I had. And I was like, I should start a YouTube channel. It was just that. And I was like, oh, okay. And I'm just gonna follow that idea until. Until it takes me to wherever it's meant to take me. So I don't know what that is. Maybe that's. Maybe that's. God, I don't know. I don't know. But it certainly. I think when that's, like, moments, I think they're moments of inspiration. Right. I think inspiration is actually not, though. It's in us. It's not of us. I think a lot of creative people would express inspiration as something that they actually don't necessarily feel like they own, though they're the instrument of it. So, yeah, I don't know what that is, but I do try to trust ideas that I feel like that pop into my head.

[B]

And so one of those ideas was the opportunity to joined VH1, which I imagine back in the day was, I mean, sort of peak consciousness. VH1 was in its ascendancy or what was VH1 when you joined them?

[A]

2010, 2009, I think it was like, I think we were just past the crest of like reality, like the golden era of reality TV maybe. But the reason why I did that was because prior to that I actually was doing on camera work. I worked in radio and then I, I started like this small little web series for a channel called Logo. And for whatever reason, I'm an introvert. I'm an introvert. I don't want to go outside, I don't want to be around people, honestly don't want to be in big groups. But for some reason you put a camera in front of me and I'm really comfortable and I can talk to anyone and I don't know what that is. And I have a talent for making people sometimes feel comfortable on camera with me. And so I didn't. But I don't have a desire, I did not have a desire to just be on camera. To be on camera. And so when I was given the opportunity to make reality TV and to make TV to learn a skill, I literally 25 year old Keith was like, well, you're always going to have that thing. If you ever want to go back on camera, why don't you learn how to do something? And so that's what I did. I learned, I learned a skill and thank God, like I think it's very like that. Like there's so much from my career that I draw upon for what I'm doing now that I'm glad that I have those skills to I think just makes me better at what I do.

[B]

And how many, so how many years were you now learning the behind the camera those skills? Not just a VH1, but I imagine other attributes or component parts of your career. You know, with all of these different and disparate shows. Were they all for VH1 or for their, for others?

[A]

No, I was a freelance producer. So the production companies hire you. That wasn't through the, through the network.

[B]

How many years were you in production business?

[A]

A while, because I did tv, but then I started my own production company when I was like 28, 29 and then I was making documentary style content for brands so like Equinox, Lexus, Stoli, that sort of thing. So I've, I've been doing production. I was, I had been doing production for a long time.

[B]

And what was. I mean, so we talk about those skills because I Don't want to get into this because I think those skills, you've obviously, you've built that bridge and you've translated those skills in the political sense, which I think is so important right now, particularly as it relates to this dialectic we're having in this country around the asymmetry in some respects of right wing media versus the messaging or lack thereof, and, and the capacity to. To message and to break through in the democratic space. But what were those sort of fundamental skills of the producing skills that you learned? What were those attributes? What was that muscle memory that you've been able to, you know, really that allowed you to start doing all those, you know, to do those ads for Equinox and everybody else to go out on your own?

[A]

Okay, so. So this is a little like behind the scenes, but like reality tv. Good reality tv. Do you watch real tv?

[B]

I. I feel like I'm living in it, but yeah.

[A]

You don't watch it?

[B]

Not as much as.

[A]

What do you watch? I don't. Do you watch anything?

[B]

I watch. I'm a news.

[A]

I mean, I'm. You don't watch anything?

[B]

You know, you don't.

[A]

You're not like at night I watch people play Magic the Gathering. That's how I unwind.

[B]

Is that it?

[A]

Yeah. On YouTube. I'm just.

[B]

I got four kids. I'm just trying to get everyone to bed.

[A]

Okay. And I'm, you know, the governor of California watches Nothing.

[B]

Well, well, YouTube, you know, non stop. I'm watching my kids playing video games. So that's. So I've become a bit of an expert extension.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Of all. I mean, name it sort of the latest Fortnite, whatever and fill in the.

[A]

I love Fortnite.

[B]

I. Hard not to. I did Fortnite Fridays. I did Fortnite Fridays. Yeah.

[A]

Do you. Are you good at building?

[B]

I'm not very good at building.

[A]

I hate building. I play only. No building. I don't think it's fun and I want to make a little box to hide in. Sorry. I love it. All right. Anyways, reality tv. So I back so the way the good reality tv. So there's bad reality tv, which is basically bad improv where they're like this, this, and this is going to happen. We're going to shoot it for 15 minutes. That's not. You can always tell when people are acting poorly. Good reality TV is like three hours of footage that me as a story producer and editor will cut down to five minutes.

[B]

Wow. And so three hours to five minutes.

[A]

Yes. And so the skill of a reality TV producer is saying, all right, what is. How do we turn this into a story? Yeah, what are the most interesting moments from this story? And how do we make a beginning, middle, end? And so, of course, that, that, that. And I'm sure your. Your staff will know this. Being able to know what's a moment is incredibly valuable, especially now. I think I wasn't expecting my orc and reality TV to be, like, honing my ability to know, like, what is interesting, what's a moment, what's clippable. But that's the same exact thing that I do now, like, whether it's curate, whether it's finding something to post on the Internet that I want to draw people's attention to, or if it's like just knowing from my own YouTube channel, like, what. Like, what are the beats of this story? Or like, what are, like, the clips that I think are actually gonna. Or, like, what's the hook gonna be that actually, you know, makes resonates with the audience? So. So that's like, one very easy thing that I've learned from it.

[B]

Characters, friction, conflict. I mean, how. What's the arc? What's the story? I mean, how does. How do you break down the essence of, you know, what makes what. What punches through and that reality TV sense? And again, we'll translate it in the political sense as well. There it. I imagine there's a tension that is also something that by definition, people seem to be attracted to.

[A]

Well, there's a tension between the production and the talent, always, because the talent doesn't want to get pushed too far.

[B]

Right.

[A]

The production wants to push them as far as possible. And then there's also a tension between, like, what is the truth and like, what does the production want to show to be the truth and what does the talent want to be the truth? So I think the truth is also attention depending on the show.

[B]

Yeah, well, and we'll get to the Trump show in a second, because I think that's at the core. You could talk about truth and trust and that tension and the character arc as well, but. So after a few years of doing all that, you somehow stumbled upon the city council, the president, city council in New York City. Was that just to help as an advisor, just a friend of a friend. Were you looking to translate your, you know, we're looking for a career change, or what was the. What was the impetus?

[A]

Well, what happened actually was I had my production company. It was pretty successful, and Donald Trump got elected. I was watching the Hillary Clinton campaign, and I Don't know how you thought the campaign did, but I did not. I was. I had. I had some notes. Some notes. And I remember this is when I still used Facebook, you know, my friends in Michigan posting positive pro Trump content. And I was like, this feels a little weird. And my friends in New York were like, what are you talking about? He's crazy. No one's gonna vote for him. I was like, I don't know, guys. And when he got elected, I just had that same thing where, like, when I was in. When I had first seen New York is the same fucking thing.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

Where I was like, I need to change careers. And so I did.

[B]

It was literally the moment his election.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Just.

[A]

That just triggered, like, it wasn't even like, should I. It was like, I need to. And it's probably naive to be like, I can make a difference, but I just really felt like I could. And so it's not like I change careers, and then it's. The next day, I'm sitting across from Gavin Newsome. It was literally. I changed careers, and I was handing out. There's pictures of me of doing this, handing out ballot, like, information on ballot proposals. And I. I volunteered my local Democratic club, and I just did the same thing that I always do, which is like, I just want to. Like, I just want to learn how this works. I want to meet people. I want to learn how this works. And I can work hard. I can work hard, and thank God, I think I'm pretty smart, so I can learn pretty fast, too. So when I. So getting that job, actually, at the City Council was incredible, because it was only two years prior that I was like, I want to work in politics. And I was like, then in City hall in New York City, working in politics. And so. So that. But I. It wasn't like that. I didn't know what the goal was. I actually think goals are quick, quite limiting. I don't want to set a goal. You know, I think, like, I think. I think we limit. We. Our imagination limits us. If we're up to me, I would probably be the chief of staff for an assemblyman in New York. That's what I thought I wanted to do, which is great.

[B]

Meaning if you had set out.

[A]

If I had set out my goal. That was the goal.

[B]

That was it.

[A]

That was the goal. Right. I've really. I'm just. I'm not in the goal business anymore. I'm in. I'm in the. I just want to do the next right thing and see where. See where it takes Me.

[B]

And I mean, that's literally the mindset next, right? Thing.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Is that a moment by moment thing, day by day thing? Is that month to month, or do you even calculate?

[A]

I think it's more of intention. Intentionality.

[B]

Yeah. There you go.

[A]

I pray every morning. God, where would you have me go? What would you have me do? What would you have me say and to whom? And I just asked to be an instrument, and I think if you do that and you try to. Try to. To just, you know, work hard, be nice to people, incredible things can happen. So. So I don't. Yeah, I don't set goals, but. But thank God, because if I did, I think I'd. I think my life would be much smaller than it is right now.

[B]

So you find Trump inspiration, desperation to driving forces life. You're inspired to then, you know, take a cue from the universe in a spiritual sense and being open to this new opportunity, sort of allowing your destiny to take shape, this opportunity presents itself. You come from a background. Your mom, I imagine the more conservative.

[A]

She's very conservative. Well, she wouldn't call her. She thinks she's a libertarian, but I'm.

[B]

Did you find yourself. Were you. Did you have a more conservative bent but were bent out of shape?

[A]

No, they're like Clinton voters. I was raised as a Democrat.

[B]

You were raised as a Democrat?

[A]

Yeah, they're Clinton voters.

[B]

Interesting.

[A]

They took me. I remember one of my earliest memories is going to a Clinton rally.

[B]

But did your mom vote for Trump that first time?

[A]

I. I think she. I don't know if she did, actually.

[B]

Interesting. Yeah.

[A]

But I know she did in 2020, and I know she did in 2024.

[B]

She did later. Yeah, we'll get to that in a minute.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So you're in the city council. How many years. How long do you. Were you there?

[A]

Like eight months? I'm not. I'm not good at government, dude. I don't ever want to do that.

[B]

Good to know the problem. It's easier to be on the other side, talking about the way the world should be.

[A]

Honestly. Honestly, nothing made me more conservative than working for the most liberal government in America. It was awful. They just pass laws to pass laws.

[B]

Yeah. Program passing is not problem solving.

[A]

Was not for me. It's not for me. But I. But I did. I did my time.

[B]

And what kind of work were you doing at the time for them?

[A]

That's where I learned how to tweet. That's where I learned how to tweet. So I was the. I was the. The person who was the digital director? Kevin moved to the Pete Buttigieg campaign and to do work there. And so they had me fill in and. And the comms director at the time. I'm never gonna forget this. I'm sorry. Never gonna forget it. She was like. She was like, I know. She was like, we actually need someone who knows what they're doing. So you can fill in for now.

[B]

Yeah, clearly you're not that good, but.

[A]

You know, we need someone that actually knows what they're doing. And I was like, okay. And then I was like, I'm gonna figure this out. I'm gonna figure this out. And so that's what I kind of dedicated my time to, was like, understanding how Twitter works. Understanding how you can frame something in some way that, like, more people can see it. So it was like a big. I mean, the account, this. The speaker's account had like 34,000 followers. And I was racked with anxiety about tweeting for this guy. Like, there are some nights where I did not sleep. I was like, I'm afraid I'm going to, like, start a war or something. Like, I'm going to tweet the wrong thing. And so. But. But no, I took it as a. I took it as a big opportunity to just learn. To learn how to. How it all works. I mean, I mean, obviously now it's really funny because in hindsight, I, you know, I have a bigger reach than probably the speaker of the New York.

[B]

City Council, I think. And we'll. We'll establish that in a moment, but within a moment, eight months. In political terms, you said, I'm out of here. And is that when you went to work for the Bloomberg campaign, or was there a gap in between?

[A]

That is when I went to work for the Bloomberg campaign. Yeah.

[B]

And it's just because they were writing a big check or you were passionate about it, or you just saw this sort of excesses of progressive liberalism and.

[A]

Wanted more moderate would hire me. He's the only one that would hire me. So I was like, all right, Bloomberg, baby, let's go. And just Bloomberg 2020 and doing.

[B]

And doing tweets for him. What were you doing? What was it?

[A]

No, no, that's the thing is like people that of everything in my resume, this is the thing people, like, attack me for the most, that I work for Bloomberg. First off, he's the only guy that would hire me.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Secondly, I was a press lead. Do you know what a press lead is?

[B]

Not. I should know. I probably have.

[A]

I mean, you probably do but, well, it's. It's basically like, oh, I'm part of the advanced team and my job is to go to the riser and make sure the riser set up.

[B]

And there's things excessive. There's a waste.

[A]

There is. It probably is. And there's a. There's a name for the press, and then I make sure they get to their spot.

[B]

That was it.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Highest and best use.

[A]

Oh, yeah.

[B]

All these years.

[A]

Oh, yeah.

[B]

All that skill set.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah. So everyone. It was like, Keith Edwards, Bloomberg, baby. I was doing nothing. I was just trying to. I was just trying to get some experience. I was just trying to get some experience.

[B]

And that lasted how long? That was just through the campaign.

[A]

The campaign was two months and $2 billion later.

[B]

Good severance. Right. So you had a few extra months.

[A]

Yeah, yeah. And then. And then it was the pandemic.

[B]

And then the pandemic hit.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And then you're struggling what, to figure out what's next step or what are you doing?

[A]

No. And then I worked for the Lincoln Project and I.

[B]

But how did that happen? What was it? What was the call?

[A]

I. I reached out. I just like emailed a bunch of the founders.

[B]

So you. Inspired by some of their ads and some of their. I mean, what they were putting out. What was, what was the inspiration? What was the connection?

[A]

The inspiration was, I need money, I needed a job. And I knew there.

[B]

And explain what the Lincoln Project. Because a lot of folks know about. A lot of folks don't.

[A]

I mean, first off, first off, these were Republicans who were. What's the word when you actually believe in something?

[B]

Principled. Conservative principles.

[A]

They're principled Republicans. And they were the only ones who were actually speaking out against Trump. They organized and it became kind of like this really overnight story.

[B]

Viral videos.

[A]

Yeah, viral videos and everything.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And so they brought me on to be regional communications director. And that's what I. So that's what I did. But I didn't know. I. I had no idea how to do that, if I'm being completely honest. They're like, can you do this? And I was like, yeah, of course.

[B]

And would that include obviously sending tweets, communicating with the press?

[A]

It was like, I think I had like Michigan, Florida, and I don't know. Or maybe it was the. Maybe it was like Michigan, Wisconsin, and pencil. I don't know. I was given like three states to just get press. And so here, here's the thing with me is like, I will figure it out. I will figure it out. So they Gave me that job. They're like, can you do X, Y and Z? I was like, Z, Y, X. Of course, of course. And then. And then I remember I got the job. I was like, oh, my God. I called my friend Eddie. I said, eddie, I have to do xyz. He was like, very easy, very easy. Just do abc. Call me in eight hours. I was like, okay, I did abc. I got like five hits that day or something. They were super impressed. And then I just like, kept. I just kept trying to figure it out and. But what happened on that campaign was that. And it's so funny because it came right after. Right after the speaker job where I was learning how to tweet is that they had this. These consultants who, believe it or not, the LinkedIn project, during the beginning in like May, April, they like when a couple. They just would go days without tweeting like this. Just did not tweet. And so they were like, we need someone to tweet for us. Can you do that, Keith? I was like, I can do that for you. And so what I started to do was just tweet with like a personality. It's very similar to what you. What you're doing on like the Newsom Press office thing, where instead of just being like saying boring stuff, it was just like having personality using memes. And then that. That really started to take off.

[B]

And you deal with pseudonym or your name, your own name. Would you use?

[A]

No, we just like the linking project.

[B]

Under link of project. And you were a link of project for how long?

[A]

Until November of that year.

[B]

Till November. That year.

[A]

In 2020. And then I went in the all stuff campaign to do the. What's it called when you have to do the.

[B]

The what?

[A]

Because. Because there was too. The election was too close, so they had to recount. No, they had to do like the thing. I forget what it's called. The.

[B]

Oh, the ballot harvesting.

[A]

Yeah, the ballot harvest.

[B]

Not harvesting. But you're.

[A]

Yeah, they had to steal. They had to figure out.

[B]

Steal, not harvest. Well, not harvesting. That was part of that was pre election. But this is a. Just basically the curation.

[A]

No, no, no.

[B]

Actually up to speed.

[A]

I forget what it's. No, it's. It's when the. In Georgia, when the election is within a certain percentage point.

[B]

Automatic recount.

[A]

No, they do another election.

[B]

What are you talking about? The runoff.

[A]

Runoff. That's what it is.

[B]

Run off with all this.

[A]

Why did I not know?

[B]

Why don't we start with the runoff? I was like, what?

[A]

So I worked on the Runoff.

[B]

You worked on the runoff?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Okay. And so all this time, so you're just bouncing around.

[A]

That's campaigns, baby.

[B]

I know this is campaigns, but it's, you know, and just learning your scrap, your craft, honing those skills, sort of, you know, getting better and better all the time, willing to take risks, sort of beginner's mind. So you don't know what. You don't know.

[A]

That's the thing. That's beautiful, right? Beginner's mind. So that's. Yeah, that's. That's very true.

[B]

Beginner's mind, which is, you know, that means. And by the way, you know, you.

[A]

Don'T know how things are usually done.

[B]

You don't know.

[A]

Yeah, well, actually, we do it like this. Why?

[B]

Exactly. No, everything about that. And by the way, that's an important. It's. I mean, we talk about eraser men, and you got to forget the things, you know, because they get in the way of what, you know, what presents itself, all these opportunities, and that's newness and freshness. So this, this. This perspective. You're willing to try new things, increase the number of tries in your life. You're sitting there, you're. You've got a spiritual connection to sort of the universe is going to present itself, and you're just going to take advantage based on your instinct and your capacity and willingness to take risks and try some new things. And is that when recently, then you stumbled upon this idea of starting your own YouTube channel? I mean, which happened when. When did you start this?

[A]

18 months ago, a year and a half ago.

[B]

And the. The impetus was what. What was the inspiration? What it was.

[A]

It was the point of view. It was literally like, I want a YouTube. Should I start a YouTube channel? It was that I was like, ding.

[B]

And you had a camera and you just sat.

[A]

I didn't even have a camera. I just had an iPhone.

[B]

So you used your iPhone?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And you just started putting out content. What. What was political content? Just, you know, angry at the universe.

[A]

Yeah, it was political content. It was just. I didn't. I did not like Instagram or Tick Tock doing vertical videos. I think you have to be an insane person to get attention, basically, and that's not me. You know, it caused a lot of yelling to, I think, get a video to do well for. For. For politics, I believe. So I.

[B]

Were you yelling a lot at the Lincoln Project? I mean, is that how you're getting the attention back?

[A]

No, I think the thing that people mistake is that, like, I do think there has to be an abrasiveness, to get things to travel on the Internet. I don't think abrasiveness means mean necessarily. I just think there has to be. You have to be short and you have to be interesting. Yeah, sharp.

[B]

Short and sharp.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

You're three hours down to five minutes.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

This ability to curate.

[A]

Oh, my God, look at you being an interviewer. That's very good. Yes.

[B]

So was that the idea to be an interviewer or the idea was just to go to camera?

[A]

No, I hate doing interviews. Do you like doing them?

[B]

I love doing it.

[A]

Really? I'm fascinated with them, actually.

[B]

I learned a lot about you.

[A]

I. They stress me out. I mean, I like doing this. This is nice.

[B]

You don't like.

[A]

Yeah, but interviews, interviewing people, I think they do it well. Like, you're obviously very well researched and it's nice. But I. I find interviews to be very stressful, so I don't. I. I also. The audience. My audience doesn't really like them, so I stopped doing them.

[B]

They just like hearing from you directly.

[A]

Yeah. Which is very flattering and.

[B]

Which is flattering. So was. So was that the. I mean, so the intention. Talk about intentionality that you talked about a moment ago, this notion of just, you know, trying to differentiate yourself, not screaming, not yelling, not trying to go for sort of the crude viral video, but to what, to express what. What was sort of the essence of what you thought would differentiate yourself? Or did you even think that far out? You just.

[A]

I didn't think that far out. I didn't think that far out. I just said to myself, I. I set. So I didn't go to college. And one of the things you learn about not going to college is that four years passes whether you're at college, in college or not. Right. And then after the four years pass, you're like, well, I could have just went to college. Now, I couldn't afford at the time, but there are moments where afterwards you're like, well, I could have went when I was 26, or I could have went when I was 28. And then you're thinking like, well, you know, that time passes either way. So this was like my version of that, where it was. I said to myself, well, if I start a YouTube channel today, I'd much rather have tried it in two years. Maybe. I literally, this is the number. Maybe I have 40,000 subscribers.

[B]

Was that a goal?

[A]

That was a number that was in my head. I was like, that would be nice, 40,000 subscribers in two years. But I did know that I Would much rather in two years, because I'm going to be two years older either way, God willing, I'd much rather have tried than not because I know what it feels like to know that time has passed and you didn't do the thing that you could have done.

[B]

Nice.

[A]

So I, So that's why, that's, that's one of the reasons why I started it when I, when I did. Because I'd rather, I'd rather try it and, and have tried it than never have done it. Even though. Does that make sense?

[B]

I mean, I remember Lucille Ball on her deathbed said, I don't regret anything I ever did. I regret only the things I didn't do.

[A]

Yes. I, I'm. Yes.

[B]

And I mean, it's so. I think there's so much power in that, this notion that you miss 100% of the shots you don't take.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

And the answer is no unless you ask that fundamental notion. And I, so I love when you talk about a spiritual connection just to seeing things.

[A]

Also nosy.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

No.

[B]

Yes and no is a yes. We can get to that too, in terms of just your time and schedule and what you value. But do you remember the time, I mean, when you did that first video and you press send, I mean, what was it? Do you remember what you talked about? What was, how long it was? What was, were you, did you get five followers? It was your friends, your family? How did it, how did that first review your own self reflection of that first video go?

[A]

There was no editing. I was talking directly camera. And it was, I mean, it's one of those videos where like, I'm, it was like, I'm talking about doing the thing that I'm doing. It's not very interesting. I'm starting a YouTube channel. You know, it's not the most interesting.

[B]

Did you say I was. I'm so on YouTube to talk about Trump and politics.

[A]

Well, I actually said I don't really want to do breaking news. I don't want to talk about the news. I don't want to do everything else everyone else is doing. Cut to the fact that that's what I'm doing. So again, but, but I knew that I, I wanted, I want, I felt like there was something there. What shifted was when I started, because I would do one a week.

[B]

One a week.

[A]

And when it shifted, when I started, I committed to doing one a day in July, July of last year. July of 24.

[B]

24, okay, 24, yeah. And that one a day, five days a week, one a day one a.

[A]

Day, every day for a month, seven days a week. Yeah. And then that went from zero subscribers to a hundred thousand in that month.

[B]

So wildly exceeding your 40,000 non gold goals. Since we don't establish. We don't establish goals, baby, forgive me.

[A]

We have ideas.

[B]

Even though you did. So you're breaking your own rules. I just want to establish.

[A]

I know, like, oh, we nice.

[B]

It wasn't like a be nice, but 100,000 was significant. But I mean you had, I remember reading a little bit about the one month process where you were able to do that and just, I mean it was like in weeks. Was it during the Biden. I mean you really started to see your numbers grow. I mean you got over a million plus. You're one of the top. And I think for people that just establish, we could establish that offset. But you out of nowhere, just the last couple of years, hardly out of nowhere, we've established all the hard work and grind and the work you've been doing for years and years, but now you're one of the top 10 YouTube podcasters.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And just sort of blown through in matter of many months. But not that many.

[A]

No, not that Many.

[B]

And have one plus million what? 1.1.

[A]

1.1, yeah.

[B]

Million subscribers. But do you remember what I mean, do you remember what really got you from, you know, those first 50,000 to 500,000? Was there sort of a moment? Was there an issue, a crisis? Was there a consciousness? Was there sort of back to your own intentionality? Was there a voice you found in yourself that all of a sudden came out and really resonated with the audience? Was it one thing or was it many things? Or was just the stacking?

[A]

I think it's a stacking. My. I remember my first, my first video that went viral that I got 20,000 views and I was like, oh my God, I'm a genius.

[B]

Look around.

[A]

I figured I'm a God. Figured this out was, was when I connected Truth Social's stock price to Donald Trump's electability. But this. So like what I tried doing was I tried not. So basically I was like, I have this chart and I just was leading people through the chart without telling them what it is, you know. And so YouTube's a lot about watch time. And so I was just trying to see if I could try to like get people to hang on as I was telling them like what this chart was doing. And I tied it to events that, you know, Trump getting, you know, getting charged with the crime, you know, all this stuff and then at the end I revealed that it was the truth. Social stock. So, so that was like that again like all these like little things where you're like learning the art of, of, of the platform. So, so that's, that's one that, that I remember very well. But I actually think it's one of those things where over time, you know, now, you know, now I can, I just do this stuff very easily. But it's like an over time sort of thing where you just like. I think the relentlessness.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And, and the repetition and I just want, I just want to constantly get better and I want to like deliver value to the people who watch. I don't. Oh, I feel like sometimes I miss the mark. But I think, I think having those intentions about just wanting to improve over time has. I just, I mean do anything long enough, you get better at it. Maybe, I don't know, that's my experience. Maybe not for someone else, but do it long enough and, but it's just one of those things slowly over time. You know, you add graphics, you add a logo, but this, it's just, it's just like over time it just, you just things stack. You know, it's just like I feel like it's probably becoming governor. Like, it's like iteration. You can't run for governor when you're 23.

[B]

Yep.

[A]

Right. I mean, I mean, I guess, I guess you could.

[B]

I was you probably by the way, when I was, I was mayor, I was relatively young. I was on 23, but it was in my, my mid-30s, which felt young at the time.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

No, it's about increasing the number of tries. It's about trying new things, about iterating, but it's also about reflecting. I mean if you're gonna, if you're gonna grow, you've got to be socially aware. You got to be emotionally intelligent. You got to be able to figure out what you got right, what you got wrong. You got to be willing to be self critical. You got to be willing to listen to people that disagree with you and not be stuck in your own bubble. And lane. And I think that was one of the things my understanding of you is you really went out and you started to study what Midas Touch is doing and what David and others were doing and sort of success leaves clues this power of emulation, but bringing it into your own voice and making it your, your own unique and authentic.

[A]

That's what I tell a lot of creators is like we don't, you don't have to like reinvent this thing. You have to reinvent it. Like, like how it, how it's done is how it's done. What differentiation can be and should be is you, like, how are you?

[B]

There you go.

[A]

It's, it's, it's you being in it that makes it different, ideally. And if you being in it doesn't make a difference, then that's something to look at, you know, but certainly that's, I mean, I, I have to just compare it to, to what you do with politics. Like, people want someone that is extremely themselves. I. Did you watch Oprah? Have you ever watched Oprah?

[B]

Are you kidding? Yeah.

[A]

Okay. Yeah, I, I remember this. I was. Oprah raised me, by the way Oprah raised me. And I do. And tens of millions of, literally a gay boy outside of Detroit. She raised me. But I remember she had a story where when she first got into news, she was like, how would Barbara Walters do this? And I think it's a trap people fall into where they say to themselves, all right, how does the person who's best at this do this? I want to do it just like them. And I think that's, that's a good way to start. But then you're just, you're always going to be like the knockoff.

[B]

Yep.

[A]

Really figuring out how do I bring myself into this is the game changer.

[B]

I love that I tell kids all the time, I said, learn from, don't follow others. Yes, your expression's unique. No one else has it. And this notion of authenticity is so important because everybody, especially with everyone, puts a mask on and sometimes their face grows into it. They become someone they're not. Which is to me the greatest indictment. You see that on, frankly, on Fox News and others, where just people become, you know, people I used to respect. And all of a sudden, two, three years as being a part time pundit on, all of a sudden they become something I don't even recognize at all. But otherwise they rust out because they just, they lack that authenticity. They like the differentiation, which I completely appreciate. So what, just in terms of your own communication and how you've differentiated yourself and how you've added, as you said, graphics and you started new things and logos and everything else, what are the big lessons you've learned in terms of just communication in this environment that is essential besides being just purely authentic? You talked about giving value a moment ago to your audience, which I love is value. Time is value. Insight is value. Respect is value. Trust. How do you define that value?

[A]

Yes, all the above. All of it. All of it. I can give them insight because I've done this work not to knock other people who do what I, who do something in the same space, but I just have a different perspective because I've worked in campaigns. I know what it means to try to get someone elected. I know what it means to lose. I know what it means to win. But I think respecting the audience is something that I is. I take very seriously. I take very seriously. And I think part of what I do too is I, I can be a mirror for people's feelings. There's a lot of people, I think people are more isolated than they have been in the past. And I think it's meaning, at least from the comments I received, which, by the way, I read a lot of them, people, people appreciate that I can be expressive. Whether I'm mad, I, I cry, laugh, you know, letting people know that how they're feeling is like not insane, but, but I think I have a deep respect and it's, it's a weird thing to have a relationship with this idea of, with like an audience.

[B]

Right.

[A]

But that's what I really think it is, is I have a, I have a, I have a deep connection. I imagine you feel the same way about having a constituency, you know, California, and you represent a lot of people and you have to look out for them, you have to lead. And it's just, it's no different than, than what I do where I have a constituency. I might. It says 1.1 million subscribers. Really? That's a, that's a lagging indicator around giving. Any given month, 9 to 9, 9 to 10 million people watch me every month. Amazing. And so I have, I have a deep humility around that. And I also have a deep, I feel a deep responsibility for, for making sure the audience gets what they need.

[B]

And you focus again, you said it and I thought it interesting. I want to go back to it. This notion of consistency, constancy, this notion of just, you know, that they can count on you, you're going to constantly, you know, we talk about iteration, etc. Versus just going viral, just, you know, trying to, just full throttle to get a clip to fly around the world. One off, one and done. This notion of a sustainable mindset versus perhaps situational in terms of how you do content. Is that, is that what you think is a differentiator as well?

[A]

It's starting to be one. So I, for those who don't know, YouTube, the title and the thumbnail are so important and you know, is as a content creator yourself, Amen. It's how you package content can deeply affect how it gets seen and how it, if it is seen at all. But something that I'm trying to do now, this is. I actually wrote a piece on this and I actually, I did a video about how, again, it's respect for the audience. And I think liberal YouTube suffers from a branding problem because if you look at content on the right, if you look at Candace Owens content, Tim Pool, Ben Shapiro, name, any name, Tucker. The way it's packaged is very approachable and it's content that you wouldn't be embarrassed to share. Content on the left, I don't know how this happened, is packaged pretty insanely. It's insane and I get it because we are in an attention economy. But I, I guess two months ago, I, I, I, I again, I had an idea that. It's not even an idea. My audience a lot, because I was doing insane titles and thumbnails. Insane, like true. I'm not even going to give an example, but just insane. I was embarrassed by it, but it worked.

[B]

Okay. No, you have to give an example.

[A]

No, I actually don't even have a good example. It's just like, it's just like, it's like White House panics or like Trump, you know, Trump panics or Trump suffers immediately.

[B]

Clickbait.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Is Trump panicking?

[B]

No.

[A]

So, but people click in.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And so people. And my, the thing I told myself was like, as long as people are clicking in and I'm giving, like, I don't like, the content is not insane itself. It's just the packaging is.

[B]

This is like the media, the headlines in the article, it's completely different.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

A lot of people don't read past that. Yes, that's the problem.

[A]

Yes. So, so my, my audience would very often be like, you know, on the, on the really bad clickbait ones, they'd be like, keith, you don't have to do this. You don't have to do it. You don't. Like, like, we are going to watch either way. So I was like, okay, all right. In December, which is the worst time ever to change something was for. I decided to try to do things a little differently. Now. I'm still trying to find the balance of, like, titling and thumbnails. I think if you look at my page, it's. There is, there is a great. There is just like, I really am just in, in, in like a let's find out mode. But, but I was like, all right, I'm going to trust the audience, I'm going to trust that they're going to be there. And even if views dip momentarily, I think I'm actually making a long term investment in credibility and again, respect for the audience. And I, and I was like, you know what? I'm just going to trust the fact that, that I'm making something valuable for people. And there they will. Now views have dipped slightly, but I actually think it's worth it because I want someone to be able to share my video to someone that might not even be politically engaged. But I do think the way it was packaged before it was very limiting. And though maybe the people who are on YouTube would be interested in clicking who are already in this niche, it might have a adverse effect in getting people to actually want to watch it if it's something anyone would want to share. And I got to say too that my audience has gotten about 30% younger since I made the switch, which is something I was not anticipating. And my audience dipped about 4 million when I switched over. And it's right back up to where it used to be. But now I have a younger audience who also, because I brought them in on this because again, like this is a relationship. So I told them, I said, hey, I'm trying this thing. Let's you, you guys said it, I'm trying it.

[B]

Right?

[A]

And now they actually, they, they, they appreciate that I have listened to them and that we're, you know, and again, like I'm not going to get it right every time. I still need people to click. But I think there's probably, I'm trying to figure out the way to do it where it's not, it's not disrespectful to them and it's also not like making me and like left leaning politics look insane.

[B]

It's interesting you opened up with Candace Owen mentioning Ben and we had on a week ago on our podcast.

[A]

How was that?

[B]

Which I thought it was. I mean, I enjoyed it. I mean I enjoyed spending time with him. I and enjoyed the civil conversation. You know, this was not, we're not, I'm not trying to compete with cable and get into screaming matches, et cetera. And that was the whole point in the entire. I appreciate. And by the way, and I appreciate you saying that because not everyone appreciates having folks like that on.

[A]

Well, we have to. We have to. My mom is the complete opposite than me. Trump would love if I stopped talking to her. He would love that because that would mean that we're more easily, more divided, the more easy to conquer so we have to have conversations. What I loved about that conversation was that it really showed that in the minutia it's just slight differences. Now, Ben Shapiro is a normal conservative. I think he has a needle he has to thread and trying to appeal to insane people. But I think like, he's more gettable than like Laura Loomer.

[B]

You know, we, for full disclosure, we were talking about her. I don't know why, except she protested here many years ago and I, I still don't know who the hell she is, but she apparently is unimportant. I've seen her name. I think Trump pays a little too much attention to her, but I'm not sure it's going for Trump. So you mentioned, but you mentioned Owens, you mentioned Ben and, and these folks as being content that is, appears more normal or shareable. What do you mean by that? Versus the left, which leans.

[A]

And I mean, I can be very specific. Like it's title case, which means, you know, there's no like, there's no like caps words. It's like, it's very, it's very conversational, conversationally packaged. It's usually their faces on it. Whereas on the left, it's like, you know, Trump panics and caps lock and, you know, Trump suffers massive, you know, term ending moment for Trump. You know, so many term ending moments for Trump on the left that, you know, if it ends the term, shouldn't it. So, so that's part of the problem now. Like, for what I'm doing, like, I still have to, I still have to fit within the niche. People have to know that, like, this is content that's somewhat related to the content I already like, but eventually, hopefully it can, like, you know, we. The content I'm making can be very, just very attainable.

[B]

Why do you think. I mean, is it. And I'm, I'm mining this because I'm trying, I think all of us are trying to understand. I mentioned asymmetry. At least I used the word asymmetry a moment ago. This, this sense. And I think it's beginning to change. And you're a big part of that change. Why I'm very grateful you took the time to be on the podcast is to talk about why the ride has been so successful in flooding the zone. We could talk about Obviously Fox with 15 of the top 16 or whatever the number is, the most viewed and watched cable shows they dominate in that space. Obviously this last election talked about all this sort of manosphere and these bro podcasters that all tended to lean Libertarian to write with Trump and the MAGA movement. They'll frame a little bit now and how. How we've not necessarily mined that space as well or as effectively as the Republicans have. Do you. You must have dove deep. I mean, obviously from a competitive perspective. What's your overview or sense of where we've been, where we are and let's talk about where you think we're going.

[A]

I'm going to say something pretty controversial, I think.

[B]

Bring it on, man.

[A]

But do you remember the Epstein. Do you remember the Epstein binder moment at the White House which. Where they brought in all the influencers, all the right wing influencers and they held up the binders and we had the Epstein files. Remember that moment?

[B]

Yep.

[A]

I think the left now, who wasn't there, Candace Owens, Megan Kelly, Ben Shapiro. I think the left and Democrats are very good at creating influencers who would go to that event if Joe Biden had put it up. I don't think we're really good at producing the Megyn Kelly's, the Candace Owens. We don't really allow anyone to step out and critique the party.

[B]

Interesting that we're not there. That you believe their success is their willingness to sort of break.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

With that base.

[A]

Who does that on the left?

[B]

If you do, boy, we're gonna come after you.

[A]

I have. Yeah, I get that.

[B]

Intimately. Appreciate that. Both of us in that respect.

[A]

So it's a problem. And we. And I think it makes the party stronger to have people to be like.

[B]

Yo, talk to me about. I mean, Democrats sort of running a little bit more scared in terms of their punditry and not necessarily wanting to talk out of school. And obviously it's interesting you bring up Kelly, whose numbers have gone through the roof. You've seen her ascendancy in the last couple years, in particular Owens and others that have been. Well, and even Tucker, et cetera. I mean, this whole universe that's sort of, you know, fighting itself right now, which is why it was interesting just having been on in that respect. But what is it about the left? What is it about some of the left pundits and creators and producers that were unwilling or hesitant to do that?

[A]

I don't know. I don't know what it is, but I refuse. The one thing about me is I'm not a joiner. I'm not a joiner. So I, I just, I just want to say what I think and what I feel. I also want to reflect back what the audience is thinking and feeling. So I'm lucky in that I'VE created an audience too, that's a little anti establishment. I'm not sure if that's the case. I think maybe audience capture is a thing too. I. I don't. I don't know. But it also could be like, I just think there's a culture. I think, I think it's just a culture thing where, like, conservatives kind of have always had this, like, anti establishment string in the party, right? Like the Tea Party, and, and I don't know, on the left, it's. It's like if you don't say the right thing or if you're not supporting the right person or whatever, then you're the enemy. And I don't know if that means that that creates a culture. And we're like, we have creators and media personalities who feel like they much rat. They don't want to be under. I don't. I actually don't. I'm interested to hear what you think.

[B]

No, I mean, I. It's. You've talked about this. I know you were on with Andy, too, in his podcast, talking about this. This being a little less judgmental. Is that a broader narrative for a party, I mean, or is that even from the perspective of being a pundit?

[A]

I don't know, man. Like, I gotta say, I know your friends with Jasmine Crockett, but like, I have said, like, it's turned into like. And I don't want to make this all about that, but it's a. I think it's a good example and it doesn't bother me, but it's just a good example that I, I was just basically saying, I think. I think she's going to have a hard time winning a general election. And I said, and there was a clip that went viral that said that she doesn't need MAGA supporters or she doesn't need Trump supporters to win Texas. And I, and I literally just said, I think you do. And it was like, that was like people outraged. Outraged.

[B]

It's just about getting our base out. It's about getting more people that are.

[A]

I don't. I know, I know. The right has this too, on other things. So it's not like it's, it's not like the left, it's just the left. But I don't think it. I think a strong party allows there to be multiple ideas at once. And I don't know what it is about some creators on the left who feel the need to attack rather than just fight for their own ideas, you know, So I don't know. I don't know. I don't know why there's a lot of conformity on the left, but I believe there is.

[B]

If you were running DNC's operation right now, social media, I mean, do you just break it down, start all over? Is it. Is it digital first? What's your. I mean, you have any diagnosis or even thought about?

[A]

I have one idea.

[B]

What is it?

[A]

1. And I've told them this. They should do it. There's all this content being created on the left.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Midas Touch, Adam Mockler, Brian Tyler Cohen, David Pakman. That's just on YouTube and there's all these TikTok or whatever. Why do we always clip out the bad stuff? The right says and like Fact Post news. Is that what they're called? The DNC's clipping account? They only clip out the bad stuff. Why are you only promoting bad things? Republicans are saying it's interesting. Why aren't you. Why aren't you. Why aren't you lifting up the clips of me critiquing the Republican Party rather than just. Why aren't you clipping out Adam Mockler's whatever. I don't. I think that is like the smallest thing we could change is there's all this free content being created and one of the most useful things someone on the left could do is aggregating it and like finding moments that could go viral.

[B]

What do you make of TikTok in this sale?

[A]

I don't really care. I just don't care.

[B]

And you don't care. Personally, I thought as a creator.

[A]

Well, I thought TikTok democracy.

[B]

What do you.

[A]

I think Tick tock should have been. I think it was insane that China owned TikTok.

[B]

You saw that. We should have shut it down.

[A]

Yeah. I think it was insane that China owned TikTok. So. So I agreed with TikTok not being owned by China now. I don't know why. Why us saying TikTok can't be owned by China turned into Trump owning it somehow. I don't know how that happened. Think that was bad? I think probably it would have been better to have left it alone maybe than what's happened now. But I mean, I don't know, though, because. Doesn't Elon Musk own X? Yes. You're more popular than ever on his platform.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So is this going to be a net? I don't know. Is it be a net negative? I don't know.

[B]

Yeah. I thought it interesting. A lot of people, when he bought it, decided to pull off the platform.

[A]

Yeah, yeah. I was kind of team that at first.

[B]

Were you? At first?

[A]

Yeah, at first.

[B]

And going to Blue Sky.

[A]

Yeah, but Blue sky is just not.

[B]

Are you on True Social?

[A]

No.

[B]

I heard you are the first one to do it.

[A]

Yeah, it was a lot of fun. That's very funny.

[B]

Well, I was able to get through. I was actually worked out. I went on their platform to call them out on the red state murder problem and why 8 of the top 10 murder states are red states. And I asked a simple question to the audience. What are the policies that are leading to such carnage? And the folks on the right were outraged. And Fox replayed it about 55 times, made the point for me and finally broke through something that I've been screaming and yelling at, had press conferences on, no one cared. So you got to meet people where you are, where they are. That's why you got to go on Fox. You got to meet people you disagree with. You got to, got to get in the arena. That's my humble perspective. And if we start to sort of self censor, sort of walk away, doesn't make them go away. So I just think we've got it. You know, it's a battle for ideas, but it is a battle, and you said it a moment ago, for attention. And how, what does that mean to you? I mean is that, is that, is that a negative, is that a positive, Is that an opportunity? Is it a liability? This notion of again, clickbait, this notion of the. They're sort of all caps, this notion of attention, what is it? I mean how does it, how do you unpack that?

[A]

Well, I think it's per platform. So I think, I think on YouTube for instance, I'm trying to create something that is long lasting and obviously something that is sustainable. So that's different. But if, but I kind of feel like if. I don't know what you would compare to YouTube to, but I do think on X and Threads to a lesser extent is where the day to day war of politics happens. And I actually think we're at war. I mean it's not, it's not a physical war. I think it's an information war. And so I'm a little bit more like I'm going to fight with every fucking weapon we have.

[B]

Amen.

[A]

Every weapon we have. Thank you. And I don't care if it, if it's like, if it makes someone a little upset that whatever it is I'm saying, but we're at war or at war. And so it's important no matter what you're saying that it gets seen because if it's not seen, then who cares? But I, I don't. But. But I think on YouTube it's a little different. It's a little different because I want. Because it's, it's, it's very personal. You know, people have me on their television. So, so I think that's, that's more, I think YouTube is much more persuadable, whereas X. Twitter is where you're never going to persuade, but you're actually, it. You're actually fighting the battle each day for the narrative.

[B]

So on that. And it's a, it's a good segue and it sort of, you know, allows us to end as we began, too. And I appreciated you opening up just as an empath and this notion that, you know a lot of folks and you've reflected in your comments today about your audience and knowing your audience and they. That you're a mirror, you said, of their consistent thoughts and how they're feeling, and they can reflect and connect with you in that respect, and that's your authenticity. And being an empath is power. That's strength from my humble perspective. But what. In terms of this notion of differentiation, of persuasion, there'll be a world where Trump is not on the ballot. I know Trump has the desire to see to it that world that, that timeline is extended, but the reality is his time of life, if not his state of mind, will determine that. And, and we'll be in a point where now we're not just trying to sort of fight the good fight in this civil war, as you describe it, in terms of the war of ideas and attention. But we do need to start persuading people. We need to be, in the vernacular, as you pray every morning, the repairs of the breach, Isaiah, as we sort of knit back trust and truth relationships and deal with that isolation which you acknowledged earlier in your comments, how do we start to shift? Or is this the moment where we can shift? Or are you doing that with your shift, even in December, to becoming more persuadable and moving into a different narrative as opposed to just being in opposition to, but being a champion for something bigger and better?

[A]

I don't, I mean, I don't. I mean, my. As I said, my mom is very conservative and I've not been able to persuade her she'd still vote for Trump today. I think there have been moments where she doesn't like, you know, the Epstein stuff. She doesn't understand. It's. That's like a. She's like that bothers her. And I think the shooting, the murder. She did. She didn't, she didn't like. I think there's these moments that wake people up. Yeah. But I don't know if. I don't, I don't know. Here's the thing. I'm not manipulative. I'm not trying to, like, trick someone. I'm just going to be me. I'm going to talk about the things that I think are important. I'm going to talk to you about why I think they're important. And if. And I'm also not, like, giving my list of, like, charts and figures and. Well, actually, 39. I know you did that a lot. Ben Shapiro. I was like, well, actually 35. Like, I don't think.

[B]

Look at me squirm in my seat. Yeah. So well aware.

[A]

Don't. I don't.

[B]

Facts and figures.

[A]

I don't.

[B]

You're a story.

[A]

I'm a storage. I'm a feeling.

[B]

Yeah. Yeah. That's. I mean, that's what persuades.

[A]

And so I'm just gonna keep doing that. And I have got, I have received comments where the people. There are a lot of people who, who are not conservative, but they're also not, like, you know, just voting the party line every day. So I don't know, maybe there's persuasion in that, but I think just being myself and critiquing things, whether it be the Democrats, like, I don't know how you feel about Chuck Schumer or his effectiveness or, or listen, you're not a fan. I don't think many people are. And I. Let me just say this. I think, I think establishment Democrats are going to be incredibly surprised this primary season and in the end, in the general election, how pissed off people are. I, I, I am, I am so mad. I am mad. Like, we, like, they ran, they basically ran on 10 years of Trump. Bad. Okay. Trump, Trump more powerful than ever. How's that worked out? And now. And like, there's some Democrats that voted for this ICE funding bill last week and then now they're like, well, actually, I guess they really mean to. I get. Oh, well, yeah, I guess that was bad. I guess that was bad. Yeah. You think that was maybe not something you should have funded when Renee Goode.

[B]

Thank you.

[A]

Was executed on the street.

[B]

Thank you.

[A]

Absolute. Like, that's my thing is, like, I think, like, we just want people who are going to fight, who are going to fight. I don't know what that looks like when a Democrat fights. We don't see It. We just don't see it. You're fighting your own way, which I appreciate. But like, where were. Where were the elected Democrats in Minneapolis fighting? Every single presidential hopeful should have been. Been there, in my opinion.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Should have been there.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

On the street. That's where the fight is. That's where the war is. And so people are going to ride in and say that they're always against this. Well, okay. I think people are gonna. I don't know. I'm just. I'm just. I am interested to see who steps up because people are literally dying. Literally dying. And Chuck Schumer's sending tweets.

[B]

We're gonna have a government shutdown this Friday.

[A]

I hope so.

[B]

Over this issue.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

DHS funding.

[A]

I don't know what else. What else can we do? People are talking about national like a strike. Not being very specific about what we do and don't buy that. Sounds interesting to me. It has to be sustained and has to make not only them uncomfortable, but it's going to mean making us uncomfortable. But something has to change. I think Greg Bavino being sent back to wherever the hell he's.

[B]

Sadly. California.

[A]

Yeah. Is like we know him well. I don't think that's actually. No changing anything.

[B]

Not for us, certainly.

[A]

No.

[B]

He's a well known figure. You talk about being on the streets of Minneapolis. I'm still on the streets of California because we're still fighting this fight every single day, just not generating headlines. And remember, future happened here first in July, in June, when they federalized 4,000 National Guard and we sent out 700 active duty Marines. And remember, Bavino's first operations were here, including when we kicked off Proposition 50 at the Democracy center in Little Tokyo.

[A]

That's right.

[B]

And Bevino and his masked men were there as we saw the campaign. And I told everybody, wake up. Pay attention. Watch this guy, watch this space. Those same BORTAC teams that he was sending out cosplains with their Apache like whatever the hell it is. We're out there on election day doing voter suppression with Proposition 50. That is a preview of things to come. It is Code Red in this country. So I appreciate what you're saying in that respect, but I also appreciate because I want to. I want to follow up as we began. I want to close as we began. You know, you said something about, you know, just this, this humanity that was expressed in those National Guard men and women that were there for the right reasons, at least expressing their humanity and compassion and connection to the community. You have to Aspire, respect. Even if you don't, some of the electeds, which I appreciate your point. But you have to be inspired by the people of Minneapolis and yes. Country.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

In Chicago, they're the thing give me hope in California all across. Right. I mean, that's got to give you. That's got to distill a sense of well being.

[A]

Here's. Here's what I want to end with. I know we're wrapping up is that I think there are some people who are waiting for the right leader to rise up.

[B]

Are you into the guy or gal on the white horse or is it different?

[A]

No, no, no, no. Here's how this is going to work.

[B]

Thank you. Keep going.

[A]

It is the people. The people lead, the people lead. And we will decide who we want to lead us. But that is from us leading them to power.

[B]

Love that could not agree with you more. I think this obsession with that guy or gal, as I suggest on the white horse to come save the day is the biggest mistake we make.

[A]

And I. Minneapolis saved itself.

[B]

Yes, yes.

[A]

Not that it's over, but they're saving itself.

[B]

And I think Waltz has done an admirable job. The mayor has done an admirable job. And they're my friends, but through the.

[A]

Support of the people.

[B]

Yeah, yeah. Through this. Absolutely. And, and this is the one. This, this uprising. This. And we didn't know it this time last year. It was pretty quiet out there, you know, up until, I mean, frankly, you know, till middle of last year, I thought, boy, we are. We're at peril here. And the no Kings rallies, first one people showed up. Next one next level number of people showed up. People showed up all across this country in voting booths that got a lot of attention, A lot that didn't get any attention. I'll give you an example. How many state assembly and state senate races we won in states all across this country. That to me was the most significant outcome. Yes, Prop 50 was big. Virginia was big, New Jersey was big. Obviously, the change that inspired a lot of people in New York was big. But also the number of wins, the dozens and dozens and dozens of races in state houses across the country, in state legislators that flipped hands, flipped the party to the Democratic Party. That's reflected in people's advocacy, that's reflected not in the headlines, that's reflected in the hard work, the grit of people, the resilience of people showing up in those communities that are not on. Rachel Maddow Every night being our Monday nights, being highlighted or even on our shows as it relates to my podcast or your nightly shows. So it's. I just hope people understand their power and understand how inspiring that power is, because people just need to see that they're not alone. And all of a sudden, it wakes up their own immune system and they realize, wait, I can do this, too. And that's the. That's the crescendo. That's what we need. And so I appreciate. Look, I appreciate what you're doing every single day. Grinding. I appreciate you don't have goals, though. I call it BS on that. I appreciate the stuff. Spiritual qualities you bring.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

To your work, which I think is powerful. And I think that's beautiful, man.

[A]

And I think we should talk about it more, too.

[B]

I just.

[A]

Democrats need to talk about it.

[B]

Thank you.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

The fact that you pray, and I love that I talk about Father Cause. But as he said, as you pray, move your feet. It's faith and works.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

And I think that's the difference. Not just about holding hands and having a candlelight vigil. It's about getting out of there and making things so. Manifesting ideals. It's, you know, the notion that we have agency and we can shape the future. And you've developed, obviously, that capacity in your own individual work. And I applaud you, man. It's just an incredible journey you've been on. I appreciate your openness. I appreciate your willingness to. To come all the way to Sacramento.

[A]

Sacramento, baby. It's cold.

[B]

California.

[A]

It's cold.

[B]

It's not all, you know, sunshine and. No, but you know what?

[A]

It's not la.

[B]

You got the American River. Go west, young man. Go west. Horace Greeley, the spirit, that frontier spirit that's alive and well here in Sacramento. It's good to see you, brother.

[A]

This is an iHeart podcast. Guaranteed Human.