← This is Gavin Newsom
This is Gavin Newsom
And, This Is Flooding The Zone With Truth Ft. Ben Meiselas of MeidasTouch
01:14:23
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- [00:00]
Ben Mezales
He's strong, wrong and fraud. I think the Democratic Party just is insane. I'm gonna frickin fight for you.
- [00:06]
Gavin Newsom
It's not about power, dominance and aggression. It's about empathy, compassion, collaboration. Those are the superpowers.
- [00:12]
Ben Mezales
I don't wake up and go, this is how I make money. And I go, this is life or death.
- [00:16]
Gavin Newsom
So in today's podcast I have someone very excited to bring on the air. Someone who's just lighting it up with the pro democracy network he's built. Midas Touch. Ben and his two brothers took an IDE pen to paper in 2021 and they built one of the most important networks in the United States of America. I'm looking forward to this free ranging conversation. We're going to talk Trump, Trumpism. We're going to talk about the government shutdown. But I also look forward to talking about Ben. How Democrats can come out of the wilderness, how we can get back on our feet, how we can move away from being a party that's identified as weak to a party that can once again assert ourselves much more formally using our moral authority and and our formal authority. And how we can take on Trump and Trumpism and win the 2026 congressional race. This is Gavin Newsom. And this is Ben Mezales.
- [01:18]
Podcast Announcer
This is an iHeart podcast.
- [01:22]
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Ben Mezales
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Gavin Newsom
1.
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Ben Mezales
It's $15 a month.
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Gavin Newsom
2.
- [03:36]
Ben Mezales
Seriously, it's $15 a month. 3. No big contracts. 4. I use it. 5. My mom uses it.
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Gavin Newsom
Are you.
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Ben Mezales
Are you playing me off? That's what's happening, right? Okay, give it a try@mintmobile.com Switch upfront.
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- [04:27]
Ben Mezales
I'm in your studio? You are literally in my living room.
- [04:30]
Gavin Newsom
I'm loving this. And by the way, I didn't know if you actually existed or you're an avatar. Some one of those AI things from Sora. Whatever that Sam Altman put out.
- [04:37]
Ben Mezales
I used to exist. Then I became an avatar. And so that's.
- [04:40]
Gavin Newsom
No, but you. Like I actually, I think you're there. You're across from me and you. So you are human. Look at this. Okay, I just. I want to confirm we have the one. The one and only. By the way, he has the Midas touch. I can confirm on the basis of our fist bump. That's good right here. Ben Massalis, thank you so much.
- [05:02]
Ben Mezales
Great to be your gov for being here.
- [05:03]
Gavin Newsom
Podcaster of the year. Come on. You got the Webby Award.
- [05:06]
Ben Mezales
I did get the Webby Award.
- [05:07]
Gavin Newsom
That's a bit right? Tell me. Don't act like humble Brett. You're like, well, it's really not about the recognition.
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Ben Mezales
Not really about, you know, some people grow up and become governors, others, it's.
- [05:16]
Gavin Newsom
A big deal, man. Right. Robby Awards.
- [05:18]
Ben Mezales
You know, I never expected that this was going to even be a career path for me. I mean, I was a litigator in Bakersfield, Kern County, Fresno. I lived at the Truxton Marriott for years doing trials out there.
- [05:30]
Gavin Newsom
By the way, it's a better Marriott than most Marriotts. Just like the Doubletree in Fresno is pretty damn good.
- [05:35]
Ben Mezales
Doubletree, Great chicken quesadilla every night that I'd get there. Can't beat it. And through that, my work evolved to representing Colin Kaepernick in his case with the NFL. Represented him there and I saw what it was like when the force of large corporations and government at the time Trump said, get that son of a bitch off the field. And in many ways, I feel we're all being Kaepernicked today. So look at that, right? So I represented him and then transitioned over Covid. I felt like I had to do something. I wasn't a political guy, figured I needed to do something. So I just started talking about politics, not thinking is this side or that side? Just I was scared. I was nervous watching these press conferences taking place. And that evolved into where I saw what was needed was a new media network. And then Midas Touch was kind of born after January 6, 2021, after the insurrection, we're like, let's be a network.
- [06:28]
Gavin Newsom
So 2021. So I want to go back to Cause I mean, now it's not only do you get the recognition that you've deserved over the course of the last few years because more and more people are familiar with the network and the work you're doing. And you started with your two other brothers, Brett, Jordy.
- [06:42]
Ben Mezales
We started this together. They weren't involved in politics either. Brett was a digital editor at the Ellen Show. Jordi did marketing for NBA and he did campaigns like that. And Jordy's the youngest eight year difference. Me and Brett are a five year difference. And we kind of pooled our talents together and said, let's just get out something. And so our very first video we did was called Trump the Snake. Cause you know, he tells that story about, you know, the snake and the woman who lets in the snake. And then the snake ends up being. So we use that word. And we said, Trump is the snake that America let in, and he's harmed America. That one took off, got a million views. And then before you knew it, we. We just started doing videos, videos, videos. But then I was like, if we're just showing our videos on TV networks, we're basically renters and they're controlling the narrative. And I said, that's a big problem. So we've gotta develop our own network. Cause we started to see then how they were both sidesing the issues. And it was clear to me that was the problem.
- [07:37]
Gavin Newsom
So now you have. And there's different ways of measuring it, but I mean, you have more downloads than Joe Rogan experienced.
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Ben Mezales
Yeah. So on audio, more downloads than Rogan, by like a significant amount too. And then on the video side, more views than Fox. So we do about. On YouTube, 350 million views a month, 375 million views on Facebook. And then across the platforms. You know, we're big across all of those. And then Joe Rogan and I go head to head on the YouTube charts of who's one and who's two, and different weeks, we kind of exchange one and two.
- [08:12]
Gavin Newsom
But that's so. I mean, when you're sitting there with your brother, I mean, you do the first Trump is the snake. I mean, was there the aspiration to sort of begin to dominate this space, or was there a desire to be sort of the counter to a lot of the more conservative to right wing podcasting that was out there and the sort of quote unquote manosphere? I mean, what was what? Or was it just literally just your own express grievance and frustration and you just wanted to share it with the world?
- [08:36]
Ben Mezales
Express grievance and frustration is where it started. Never had an ambition of building a network, but what was clear is that what we were doing started connecting with people in a way that I was like, wow, this actually made a difference and this doesn't exist. And it kind of shocked me that this didn't exist before. And I kind of pinched myself. I'm like, why is it that me and my two younger brothers, my seller's brother, it made no sense to me. And then we did another one and it started to connect even more, and another one I said, we may be onto something here, you know, and then we just kept on building and building, and then it became clear that we should have a Bigger ambition. And that bigger ambition is to build this digital media network, an independent media network. And so we started talking about pro democracy digital independent media network mid-2021, when nobody. Now you hear that a lot. Independent media this, that. We leaned into it right away. And then I looked on YouTube and I saw, okay, Mr. Beast is crushing it. This person's crushing it. And I said, what are they doing though?
- [09:39]
Gavin Newsom
And.
- [09:40]
Ben Mezales
And then I saw that corporate News was using YouTube to dump their old kind of content, but they weren't using it as the hub of their network. I was like, lots of people are getting information from YouTube. Let's use YouTube as the central place where the network lives, not as a repository for just whatever your other information is. So from that it was like, let's start doing videos multiple times a day. Let's cover all the news, let's bring on guests. So we built up the Midas YouTube channel. Then we started building out other YouTube channels. You know, Adam Mockler. So Mockler's are Gen Z. Like there's no one crushing it in the game right now than Mockler. So we helped Mockler build his channel. We have a legal channel called Legal af. Katie Fang leaves msnbc, launch that channel. We have a Tennessee Red State channel, Blue Dot Red State Tennessee Brando channel. And so Aaron Parnas, who's out there, we have his channel. So all of that's now part of the sprawling network. And those aren't even included. When I give give you that 350 million view, that's just Midas. When I add the whole universe up and include TikTok, we're talking 2 billion, 3 billion views a month. Flood the Zone with the truth while MAGA floods the Zone with disinformation and tries to bend reality.
- [10:58]
Gavin Newsom
So it's interesting. So when you were sitting in there and I want to unpack all the different directions you're going and all the verticals and how large, I don't think people fully understand this notion of the network. Midas touches now just much more than just you and what we see you doing every single day. But go back to your reference to Ms. I mean, did you go out there and you sort of look at best practices and as you said, you were trying to unpack what makes him so resident. I mean, if you've got anyone who has children, just knows Mr. Beast. I mean, sort of dominant front and center in the consciousness, people's mind. And I'll even find myself watching this guy, just mesmerized by his ability to pull all of us in and the entertainment value and often some educational components and philanthropy, obviously a big thrust. Who else was out there that you were sort of admiring that you, you know, you sort of sort of sourced some consideration and incorporated into your approach?
- [11:47]
Ben Mezales
You know, I was just looking at all those YouTube channels, like, MrBeast. What was also big on YouTube would be a lot of influencers who would vlog and they would show themselves, like, out partying and what they were doing. There was a whole genre of, like, I know this sounds immature, like the prankster YouTubers. And I just. I found some of that stuff funny, but then it started getting kind of fake. Yeah, some of it crossed the line, but some of it I found in my immature humor to be funny. So, I mean, I just saw what they were doing, and a lot of them would tell you what their YouTube strategies were like. Beast has so many videos where he goes, here's how I do it. And I would watch those as we were building Midas Touch, and he would talk about what the thumbnail needs to look like. Why in my videos, when I interview you, for example, I get into it right away. There's no long lead up. I throw it to you. You have to get the audience's attention with your top question, not hide the ball. On YouTube. You don't do long intro music. Cause if you do a long intro music, the audience like, all right, I don't have that attention span. You know, just get into it. Tell me why I care about this. To begin, you take those best practices and you focus on news. And for us, it was being unapologetically pro democracy and not in the sense of I support Democrats, I support human beings. And what I found the biggest thing was in being successful on YouTube. I read the comments. I listen to what my audience is saying. I think listening is the key. And I think so much corporate news took for granted their audience. They were spoiled. They controlled the pipes of how, you know, media is distributed and delivered. So they just took for granted that everybody was gonna watch their stuff. But people were getting frustrated on what they were watching the both sides, the propping up of Trump, normalizing his behavior. And what we did is we took a step back, we listened to what people were saying, understanding their struggles. And they'll tell you, if you listen, that they feel psychologically tortured right now, living paycheck to paycheck. They'll explain to you what it really means to lose healthcare. They'll explain to you what it means when they see billionaires getting richer and private jet tax exemptions, while 42 million people are gonna lose their snap. And they'll tell you that. And so you need to listen to that and fight for them authentically and be there for them. And we built a network around that premise. Now, my views tend to align with people like you because you're fighting for people. But it's not a foregone conclusion when I start this network that I'm some democratic influencer or I'm pushing a democratic agenda. I'm pushing an agenda that fights for the people. And that's been the secret. And we've grown the community. Mr. Beast grows because he's got that community. We have what's called the Midas Mighty. And the Midas Mighty, Whether we're on YouTube or Substack, we've become one of the top substacks in a very short period of time. They go where we go because they trust us, and they trust us because we care about them. And they know phoniness from authentic caring.
- [14:46]
Gavin Newsom
It's amazing. When did you know? I mean, at what point did you guys, your brothers, you sat around and you finished the day and then someone said, hey boys, take a look, look at these numbers. And you're like, damn, you know, I'm out there hustling for clients. I'm representing some iconic clients like Colin Kaepernick, et cetera. You know, that's my day job. We're just having some fun doing something that's important, expressing our point of view, putting people first, as you say, listening to folks, absorbing it. But when do you know, well, we're on to something?
- [15:14]
Ben Mezales
20, 23. I phase out my law practice and I say, I've gotta, I've gotta do this full time.
- [15:21]
Gavin Newsom
And so you're doing this, you're not doing the law anymore.
- [15:23]
Ben Mezales
Not doing that anymore.
- [15:24]
Advertisement Voice
Wow.
- [15:25]
Ben Mezales
We have a legal channel where we elevate some of the top legal voices. Everybody from Michael Popak leads it. Karen Friedman, Agnifolo is a well known lawyer in New York, Former top lawyer there. We've got a lot of people who give the top commentary, but I'm not representing people day to day anymore. And now full time, the network's pretty big, so we've got probably nine channels that are under the kind of Midas mothership. We've got people across the country and the world like will have someone named Ken Harborough, a veteran. He'll be in Kiev or he'll be on the front lines.
- [16:01]
Gavin Newsom
You're going global.
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Ben Mezales
And we started Midas Canada with a guy named Charlie Angus. We're really big.
- [16:07]
Gavin Newsom
We're about to be the 51st state. Is that it or what? You just saw that coming?
- [16:12]
Ben Mezales
Well, we were an important voice fighting on behalf of Canada right after the election. And we started bringing in guests like Charlie Angus, who leads the resistance tour there. And we made this incredible connection with the people. Also big in Australia and a lot of other places. But Midas Canada developed and grew. We sell out big auditoriums in Canada, Conservative areas in Northern Ontario, mining towns. This message resonates there, you know, And Canada's really one of the front lines internationally in their resistance against this authoritarianism. And so really big there, but international in scope as well.
- [16:51]
Gavin Newsom
It's interesting. And what you just referenced, subtly, I want to sort of unpack that as well. It's this notion of being online, but also offline, and people are showing up in line with these large audiences. So you're starting to actually do events and building that out as well, huh?
- [17:06]
Ben Mezales
Yeah. You know, and so even think about Adam Mockler. He's out there. He was there recently at that News Nation. He was at kind of enemy territory there, you know, and Cuomo got all angry, and he's like, why is Midas doing. You know, Cuomo went on this, like, whole crazy thing with Mockler because I think he's jealous of Adam. Mockler's just debates, if I'm being totally honest. But Mockler's out there in those events. We've been doing events across the country, and that's what we're gonna be adding and kind of bolstering our presence. But to me, you really gotta have that authentic connection before you go out there. And at this point, Midas is big enough where I think we can make a huge impact on college campuses. But just speaking to people, shaking hands, listening to people.
- [17:54]
Gavin Newsom
So when I started this podcast, the first guy I had on, controversially was. I started. Yeah, it was. I mean, it was Charlie Kirk around Turning Point USA and spending time on college campuses. And I started to see. Speaking of people online, saw these huge crowds, including at usc, where just a couple days before he was on, the day before he was on my podcast, he was down at usc. And my. My daughter. I mean, my daughter. My sister's. My niece, but my sister's daughter showed me photographs. And not. Not just the ones online. She showed me sort of surrounds, and I'm like, jesus, this is legit. This guy's turning it out. And so we thought we'd turn up the volume in terms of just waking folks up, particularly Folks, you know, more progressive audience and more democratic audience to what these guys are doing on the other side. Would you consider yourself, and I don't mean literal in this case, but broadly sort of the antidote to the pro democracy set in terms of what's going on not just with Charlie Kirk, but others in that space and what Charlie's network represents today, obviously with his tragic death.
- [18:55]
Ben Mezales
Yeah, you know, so I'm a professor at usc. I was there on campus that day. I remember that as well.
- [19:02]
Gavin Newsom
But they're a law professor.
- [19:04]
Ben Mezales
Law professor, yeah. Yeah. And I teach undergrad and grad school, you know, and as you see people like Charlie Kirk and that ilk, they rapid response and they push a lot of disinformation and lies over and over again. And there's frankly no tragedy that they won't exploit. I just gotta be blunt, that sometimes the bigger the tragedy, a wildfire then.
- [19:32]
Gavin Newsom
On the receiving end, trust me, vast.
- [19:34]
Ben Mezales
Majority of them, but to me, isn't that the perfect example? Because I bet I could be wrong here. But when you were doing all the right things to get the fire trucks ready, the this ready, the helicopter, you positioned everything we pre positioned days before.
- [19:48]
Gavin Newsom
The actual first ignition.
- [19:50]
Ben Mezales
And you were doing what a governor. And I don't think as I watched you, I think it was a 24 hour period where you said, you know what, I have to work equally hard on the information battle as I have to do being the governor, which is a crazy realization, but that's the realization right now. Whereas former President Biden, he was from a different era. Let's work together, let's compromise, bring people together. I'm fighting for you, you're fighting for. He would do that and what they would do, that whole right wing ecosystem, right fire hose on, literally. I mean, with California, they talk about a faucet that connects California and Canada, you know, which is, you know, obviously.
- [20:33]
Gavin Newsom
I want to laugh. It makes me nervous. Ben, you're 100% right. It was such a shame they flooded the zone. They dominated. I wish it was just 24 hours. I mean, they won those first few days. And it was a communications battle that was so asymmetric. I wasn't totally, as someone who's been in this, that, that faced a recall that thought I knew what I was doing, that stood up in one of the largest media markets in the world, California, in terms of the size, scope and scale of some of the biggest media conglomerates that operate out of here. And communication specialists, was not prepared for what they were able to do. And it was combination of President Elect Donald Trump. It was combined with the weaponization of grievance that was coming from these surround sound networks and the propaganda networks, and then Elon Musk piling on. And it was a wake up call, a big time wake up call.
- [21:22]
Ben Mezales
That's the antidote, where you have to say, I see what they're doing. So I have to flood the zone with truth and I have to be powerful with it. Like, I have to be strong, and I have to let people know I'm fighting for you because they're wrong and strong. And we have to be powerful and.
- [21:40]
Gavin Newsom
We'Re weak and right. Mostly. I don't want to be pejorative. I mean, our presumption is that we're always right, but look, they are certainly strong and wrong, but we're trying to be right, trying to win a debate or something. These guys are playing by a different set of rules.
- [21:53]
Ben Mezales
And you've said this before, that Trump is weakness masquerading as strength. And it's important that we stand up to him. Look, when he talks about building a ballroom right now while Americans are suffering, while they've destroyed the east wing of the White House, I think also you have to take a step back and you have to mock the behavior. Yes, it's so dangerous. But also, it's like.
- [22:14]
Gavin Newsom
When you grew.
- [22:15]
Ben Mezales
Up, Governor, were you like, I want to build a beautiful ballroom where there's going to be beautiful gowns and people. It's like, what are you even. You want a ballroom? Like, what the hell are you even talking about?
- [22:24]
Gavin Newsom
He wants a Kremlin ballroom because Putin has one. Yeah. No, I mean, it's. That's why we're putting up those memes with Marie Antoinette. I mean, it's really extraordinary. I mean, at a time when the, when the government's shutting down, we're cutting food stamps. California, 5 million people are gonna lose access to SNAP benefits in literally a matter of days. And this guy, we saw that just desec of history. It wasn't. It's not a house, it's what that house represents. And he did it intentionally. Just. It was to bulldoze. You know, it was a way of expressing his power that he. That he doesn't play by the same set of rules. It wasn't just the physical manifestation of the wrecking ball. It's sort of the wrecking ball that represents his power, his dominance, his aggression, his authority, his authority over doing things to us, not with us, for us. And it really is an expression, I think, of the Moment we're in. And so this notion of communication, of his ability to flood the zone, of their ability to shape shift, of their, where illusion rules, facts don't matter, you dominate the narrative and that's how you ultimately move policy and win hearts and minds in debate. I mean, is. So this is something you fundamentally recognized early. And you're, you're, you mentioned that you're posting constantly. You're not just doing one half hour little YouTube channel and putting it up. I mean, tell us a little bit more about what you're doing in that respect on a consistent basis.
- [23:46]
Ben Mezales
So the programming starts 4:00am every morning. And there's a 4:00am, a 5:30, a 7, an 8:30. Then every 90 minutes there's a 15 to 20 minute video, usually by me. I'm like 70% of it. But look, if you did a three hour podcast, then you broke it up into multiple minis, you know, I'm not.
- [24:05]
Gavin Newsom
Starting at 4 in the morning, brother.
- [24:06]
Ben Mezales
Well, I do those videos in the evening.
- [24:08]
Gavin Newsom
Oh, good.
- [24:09]
Ben Mezales
I do them before, to the chagrin of my wife and my little baby. I do some of those at night, but then we do those all day. Then we have contributors come in and fill certain gaps as well on that network. Then we'll launch two or three live shows every day at a predictable time. But it's predictable, it's reliable. People start to know, okay, I show up at the 4, I get Ben, I show up at the noon, I get this person. And you know, we focus on domestic issues, but we also focus on international issues, as I talked about with Canada, that other people aren't really focused on. So, you know, I've been focusing a lot on these fake trade deals that Donald Trump's doing.
- [24:47]
Gavin Newsom
And I quote, fake trade deals. He's signed some of the most consequential trade deals of our lifetimes. How many have been signed by.
- [24:54]
Ben Mezales
Actually, zero have been. Right? Zero have been signed. Yes, but it's. So remember they did 90 deals in 90 days.
- [25:00]
Gavin Newsom
Yeah.
- [25:00]
Ben Mezales
Remember they did six or seven fake deals in 90 days. But just think about it as you watch financial media talk about this or corporate media, they just ignore the 90 deals in 90 days and then they pretend that he's done six or seven deals. When we know, great deal maker, he's.
- [25:16]
Gavin Newsom
Just a deal maker. That's all he wants. He wants a good deal for the American people.
- [25:19]
Ben Mezales
And so here's the thing. We know trade deals are very long agreements, usually thousands of pages, very meticulously negotiated. And let's just start at the most basics. Because I'm a law professor. So deals have to be signed. Right. They're usually. And they have to be binding. Like, let's start with the concept of did country A sign it? And did the United States sign it? In this case, none.
- [25:44]
Gavin Newsom
I'm smiling just because, I mean, that's sort of a basic principle.
- [25:47]
Ben Mezales
None of these are signed and they're just press releases. Or when he goes around and says, I brought in $17 trillion and it sits on a tariff, by the way.
- [25:57]
Gavin Newsom
It'S gone up beyond now 17. I think he's. Yeah, he's now using 20.
- [26:01]
Ben Mezales
He's 20. But think about it, though. So if you've brought in $17 trillion.
- [26:06]
Gavin Newsom
Amazing.
- [26:07]
Ben Mezales
Then why can't we fund supplemental nutrition assistance programs? Right. Why can't we deal with extending the Affordable Care act subsidies? So what we do with our coverage that's smart. Is we don't just say, ah, he's stupid.
- [26:20]
Gavin Newsom
He's an idiot.
- [26:21]
Ben Mezales
Stupid.
- [26:21]
Gavin Newsom
He's making it up. You also make the point.
- [26:23]
Ben Mezales
We harness the number and say, okay, sure, 17 trillion.
- [26:27]
Gavin Newsom
Take him at his word.
- [26:28]
Ben Mezales
So the biggest Ponzi scheme in history, Bernie Madoff, $65 billion. So you're engaged in a $17 trillion Ponzi scheme right now, screwing over the farmers and the American people. And it's just not the way I'm describing it is not people's experience watching corporate news. And so our entire framework of how we hit these issues, but it aligns with how people feel. And the reaction I get most frequently is, that's how I feel. I thought I was crazy. And finally someone's saying it. And it's cause we're listening to them. But also it's because we're not coming at it from this is a job. Like, I'm not. I don't wake up and go, oh, I'm doing this and this is how I make money. And I go, this is life or death.
- [27:15]
Gavin Newsom
I love that.
- [27:16]
Ben Mezales
And I think they sense that and they see that.
- [27:18]
Gavin Newsom
I love it. I mean, just this fundamental notion of pro democracy and the fact that you were years ahead of that and understanding. I mean, we saw democracy lit on fire after January 2nd. That's your point. I mean, one more evidence. Try to wreck this country, Try to dial up for votes. And so you mean you saw that evidence, you did something about it. But I think folks are now finally waking up to this fundamental notion of a republic, a democracy, what it means, what it is, and what it could, you know, might likely be if we don't stand up at the moment. I love the fact that you're able to shapeshift a narrative that just isn't the back and forth where you have a Scott Jennings on CNN or something saying one thing and a response and then sort of a cat call of stress and anxiety and you just, you know, I mean, you want to start screaming or yelling or throw something at the tv, but you're able to unpack it and bring it into someone's, you know, create a sort of a narrative that connects to how not only you're feeling, but what you're experiencing.
- [28:09]
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Podcast Announcer
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- [31:17]
Ben Mezales
Learn more@probane.com Mint is still $15 a month for premium wireless. And if you haven't made the switch yet, here are 15 reasons why you should.
- [31:27]
Gavin Newsom
1.
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Ben Mezales
It's $15 a month. Month. 2, seriously, it's $15 a month. 3, no big contracts.
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Advertisement Voice
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Ben Mezales
I use it. 5. My mom uses it. Are you, Are you playing me off? That's what's happening, right? Okay, give it a try@mintmobile.com Switch upfront.
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- [31:49]
Gavin Newsom
See mintmobile.com I want to go back to just what you just sent out. As it relates to the farmers. I mean, this to me is one of the most extraordinary stories. This notion of the rural farmer, this notion of the person that's the poor soul out there working family farm, doing soybeans, just want fair, free markets. And all of a sudden this guy comes in with a wrecking ball. Not at the White House East Wing in this case, but as it relates to these tariffs and the retaliation overseas and the impact that's had on their family, their farms, their communities. Same thing with beef and beef prices. Watch what he's doing to try to supplement in Argentina these mistakes, what he's going to try to do with President Xi as it relates to covering up those mistakes, as it relates to trying to Recourse, or course correct away from what's happening in Central America or South America. I mean, unpack some of this from your perspective and bring it into sort of how you would present the argument to your viewers, listeners.
- [32:45]
Ben Mezales
So how is it though that these farmers voted for him? Buy in.
- [32:50]
Gavin Newsom
And there's that question.
- [32:51]
Ben Mezales
But it's because he senses their vulnerabilities and he sees their weaknesses and their struggles and then he lies to them like a con artist and a Ponzi schemer. It's a skill where he can see it. And what Democrats don't ever do is sometimes it's simple, but it's important, which is you look at the camera and you have to truly feel this way. But you say, I care about you, I hear you and I feel your pain and I'm gonna be there and I'm gonna fight for you. I hear what you're going through. I haven't heard a lot of you say it. Now I hear you say it a lot, but you don't hear that a lot.
- [33:32]
Gavin Newsom
And what sort of Clinton esque quality.
- [33:35]
Ben Mezales
Democrats just assume that if you were.
- [33:38]
Gavin Newsom
Laid off, I probably knew you in Arkansas.
- [33:41]
Ben Mezales
Exactly.
- [33:42]
Gavin Newsom
And there was a way. All of a sudden you're like, my God, he probably didn't know me. He sees me.
- [33:46]
Ben Mezales
And why is it that, you know, you see groups of union workers when Trump's whole thing is destroy unions, literally, it's I'm gonna destroy you. Or workers that, you know. But he goes there with a pizza, usually cold, he takes the photos with them, you know, and people are like, oh, maybe he cares about it.
- [34:03]
Gavin Newsom
Hell, this guy shows up at McDonald's where 20 states are still giving people $7.25 and ending up on food stamps that he's cutting as a consequence, ending up on Obamacare, which he has no problem doubling and tripling in those states of people are buying this bullshit.
- [34:18]
Ben Mezales
You know, these are very complex times. And he gives them a very easy answer. It's the immigrants, it's the other, it's transgender people. And this is why. And we need to be angry. And I'm gonna make this better. And I care about you. Let's do it. And actually he's the reason why they're in the situation. It's him and his billionaire buds are the ones who are screwing them. But how is it that, you know, cuz he sees it though, and his speeches are kind of geared to it and Democrats are up there. It's, he's strong. Wrong and fraud, but weakness masquerading as traits. It's fraud. And oftentimes I think the Democratic Party just isn't saying I'm gonna frickin fight for you. I mean when I saw you in the SEIU and you were surrounded by the group of union work. No, but for real. But that's a scene that we haven't seen in a while. Rallying workers like that. And that's what we need to see more of. So when I think about what the farmers are going through, it's just a perfect Trumpian example. It's a Ponzi scheme on top of a Ponzi scheme. Now he's gonna do another fake with China. Maybe they temporarily buy more soybeans. Look, I saved you. You created the problem. What do you mean you saved me? You created the problem. And at what expense? You know, he's gonna. It seems obvious to me he's gonna give up Taiwan. Part of this whole deal is to basically say you take Taiwan, give me a little soybean and also let Maga control the TikTok algorithm. Xi Jinping knows exactly what the weaknesses are. Trump wants the photo, he wants the deal. The market goes up for a few more. That's it, that's how I unpack it.
- [35:50]
Gavin Newsom
I'm gonna come back to that. Everything you said is worthy of a conversation. I just want to go back a little bit to the SEIU because I'm really, I appreciate for me that just fills your soul, right? When you. That energy of people and you know, I was in a crowd. People don't necessarily know what you're referring to. Just the other day, a Prop 50 rally and I was giving a speech and I was removed from the crowd and I just felt disconnected in every way, shape or form. And I just walked right in and, and just everyone sort of absorbed and we're all just sort of in this together. I'm looking around, Mic doesn't work like, I don't need the mic. I just, that there's. People are. People are scared, man. They're scared. And I was looking around, there was. I mean no one looked like me. It was the most diverse crowd I'd ever been. I mean, I mean Latino families, African Americans, people, lives are getting torn asunder. Communities on edge. By the way, same union I worked with to get $20 minimum wage for fast food workers, $25 for healthcare workers. Only state in the country can lay claim to that. So I'm really proud of them. But this notion of, I mean people really are vulnerable.
- [36:55]
Ben Mezales
Right now he's launching Chemical Weapons into communities with ice. I mean, weapons that are banned in war on a regular basis. He's doing chemical warfare with secret police.
- [37:07]
Gavin Newsom
Let's just abuse it. Anything but that.
- [37:09]
Ben Mezales
Yeah.
- [37:10]
Gavin Newsom
Why you got masks on? Why aren't you identifying yourself? What about due process? Why? I mean, what the. Why are people allowed to disappear, come back? Is there no recourse, no oversight?
- [37:20]
Ben Mezales
Waiting at elementary schools, courtrooms.
- [37:23]
Gavin Newsom
15 year old kid outside school, waiting for a sister to leave school, disabled kid, they put a gun to the kid's head. Mistaken identity. How the hell is that? No accountability, no oversight. Where are you, Speaker Johnson, on that? Where's the outrage? So let's go back. This notion of you framing things, which I love, the arsonist now is the firefighter, the guy who literally creates the problem, which is exactly. You teed it up beautifully with President Xi. And what's going to happen in China, all the trade war, all the fire and fury, and he's going to act like he softened it and tempered it. And you said it. Xi has his number. The Chinese know exactly what they're dealing with now.
- [38:03]
Ben Mezales
Yeah. Trump wants to announce a deal and he wants the photo. And if it could enrich him through the TikTok. The him part is TikTok. He wants to control the algorithm. He wants his rich oligarch friends who will give kickbacks, in my opinion, back to him. That's part of the plan. So originally TikTok was going to be banned by the Senate and the House, and now it's a leverage point for Xi to use against him and he walks right into it. Xi sees it right away. It's obvious he sees it.
- [38:32]
Gavin Newsom
Yeah, he sees it pretty, pretty inexpensive. Part of the bargain, Xi Jinping's. If he can get Taiwan for giving up the algorithm on TikTok, from Xi's perspective, pretty goddamn good deal.
- [38:44]
Ben Mezales
The reality is he's already got. I mean, I'm not trying to be ultra alarmist, although I think it's time for alarm. Trump wouldn't let the president of Taiwan use American airspace. All the guy wanted to do was land en route to Central America. Trump wouldn't let the head of Taiwan land. So if you're not gonna do that, you think that he's going to be providing the requisite support, but do you remember back in the day when MAGA was always like, we're China hawks and they frame themselves as hawks?
- [39:12]
Gavin Newsom
I remember it's a black and white movie days about 10 months ago.
- [39:15]
Ben Mezales
Hawks, Hawks.
- [39:16]
Gavin Newsom
We're financial hawks, by the way, in many ways, The Democratic Party was becoming. We were kind of competing against it was what. When everyone starts to agree with something, that's when I sort of took a step back and goes maybe we should all sort of assess where we are. But 100% right, right. They go.
- [39:30]
Ben Mezales
They say they're financial. They use hawks all the time, the financial hawks. It's like, what do you mean you're a hawk? You're the most financially irresponsible people. I mean it was Trump's first term that added $8 trillion.
- [39:42]
Gavin Newsom
8.4 trillion. Get 8.4. Right.
- [39:44]
Ben Mezales
I'll get that point for.
- [39:45]
Gavin Newsom
Right.
- [39:45]
Ben Mezales
I'll raise you.
- [39:47]
Gavin Newsom
Oh, he's raised it. He just did. Another trillion dollars. The fastest trillion of the debt we've ever seen in US history. Where the hell is he? Outraged in the Republican Party. Yeah.
- [39:55]
Ben Mezales
The deficit right now, king of debt. 7% higher right now, year over year than under former president, but under. They're the most fiscally irresponsible yet. They go around, call themselves hawks like it's, it's and corporate news. They frame it this way. They let him get away with it. You don't hear a people. The guy tore down the white. We talked about it before. But the way they normalize. That's the same people who said Obama wore the tan suit and they flipped out.
- [40:20]
Gavin Newsom
And that was the whole the Washington Post editorial seller saying absolutely it was the right thing to do.
- [40:25]
Ben Mezales
And they used it in the context of. Not in my nimby.
- [40:28]
Gavin Newsom
Nimby. As if it's the debate we're having in California around housing opposing local residential housing policy that Trump first NIMBYs, they called it. That kind of offended. Offended the senses of people out here. I mean I imagine if you're someone like Ezra Klein and others making the case on an abundance agenda, that's pretty offensive to try to sort of cooperate, you know, somehow conflate or incorporate that into the argument.
- [40:52]
Ben Mezales
When I was a litigator, there was a intentional infliction of emotional distress concept.
- [40:56]
Gavin Newsom
Does it.
- [40:56]
Ben Mezales
Does it. Does it shock the conscience? Right. That's what. That was the standard. And Trump has inflicted nationwide intentional infliction of emotional distress. His conduct is conscious, shocking. And so when people wake up and they're being disappeared by ice, when their healthcare is being ripped away, when they're psychologically tortured, living paycheck to paycheck and people aren't acting with an urgency, they're pissed. You notice the numbers of the Democratic Party are going up as they're seeing the fight. They were low because they didn't see people fighting for them. Not because they were unpopular, they were low because they lost. And people don't like losers. And also that they're fighting. That was the issue.
- [41:38]
Gavin Newsom
Listen to what I hope everyone just listened to what you said. Could not agree, by the way. That's why I'm very optimistic about November. We're gonna win proposition 50. We're gonna win in New Jersey, we're gonna win in Virginia. You've got this young, dynamic leader, whether you agree or disagree, whatever flavor you are of, Democrat, Democratic, Socialist, conservative, mod, whatever. But you've dynamic leader who ran an unbelievable campaign. Success leaves clues. Talk about media savvy and a communication capacity. That's next level. I mean, that guy's. I mean, at another level in terms of ability to communicate, you know, look.
- [42:12]
Ben Mezales
Look, look where the crowds are. Look who people. Look, this is how I describe it. And it's funny because I got you here. I said that there's, you know, on the one hand you have Governor Newsom energizing people, fighting back, using moral authority and formal authority. Then I said, look at Mamdani drawing massive corporate crowds. Aoc drawing massive crowds, Bernie. Massive crowds in red states of Trump supporters also. And so we should look at him. By the way, what Mamdani did before he even launched the campaign, right after the election may have been right when he launched it. Was he interviewed? He was listening. He did a video right away, after the election, speaking to people in the boroughs and saying, why'd you do that? And he got the answer. That was very, I think, influential in his, you know, in his race.
- [42:55]
Gavin Newsom
I was thinking, as you were describing, your opponent approach to building Midas Touch and now the network. That was his approach to building the campaign.
- [43:03]
Ben Mezales
Yeah.
- [43:03]
Gavin Newsom
Ask people what they want, ask them how they're feeling, see them, listen to them. Exactly. I mean, I thought that that was a master class of common sense really, at the end of the day. But it's now. It's, you know, it's a next generation media savvy as well. And I hope, again, back to your point, just the capacity for us. We've just got to disabuse ourselves of the ways of the past. We've got to completely shift gears in terms of now dominating there, flooding the zone. But the party that is empathetic. It's not about power, dominance and aggression. It's about empathy. It's about compassion. It's about collaboration. Those are the superpowers.
- [43:38]
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- [45:52]
Podcast Announcer
What kind of programs does this school have? How are the test scores? How many kids do a classroom? Homes.com knows these are all things you ask when you're home shopping as a parent. That's why Each listing on Homes.com includes extensive reports on local schools, including photos, parent reviews, test scores, student teacher ratio, school rankings and more. The information is from multiple trusted sources and curated by Holmes.com's dedicated in house research team. It's all so you can make the right decision for your family. Homes.com We've done your homework.
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Ben Mezales
Learn more@probane.com Mint is still 15amonth for premium wireless. And if you haven't made the switch yet, here are 15 reasons why you should. One, it's $15 a month. Two, seriously, it's $15 a month. Three, no big contracts. Four, I use it. Five, my mom uses it. Are you, are you playing me off? That's what's happening, right? Okay, give it a try. @mintmobile.com Switch upfront payment of $45 for three month plan.
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- [47:24]
Ben Mezales
See mintmobile.com we talk a lot about empathy.
- [47:27]
Gavin Newsom
Yes.
- [47:28]
Ben Mezales
Because if you listen to also what MAGA said, they go, empathy is for weak people. And I got quite the opposite. You know, when I grew up, you know how MAGA likes to call themselves? Alpha, Alpha, Alpha. You know, which is bullshit. First off, you call yourself Alpha. That's weird to begin with. But when I grew up, the quote unquote Alphas, the kids in high school would be the people who would stand up against the bullies and tell the bullies, no, that's not how you behave. And you would put your arm around the marginalized community or the people who were being bullied and you would say, I got you. That's how I was raised. But right now, this idea of the bully has been glorified and we have to disabuse people of that knowledge and say, nah, that's weakness. That's weakness to your point, masquerading as strength. But that's not how we should treat human beings and stop blaming the problems, the complexities on transgender people. And we can't abandon communities. I think that's an important point where I think after the election, when people were trying to figure out, out the postmortem of what happened, I think that there was a lot of communities that felt, am I gonna be abandoned? I think the black community, are you saying that we're, that this is woke and you're not gonna support me and the transgender community I just think that we have to proudly support communities that have been under attack. Cause they're human beings, dammit. And we gotta say, we're here with you. We're here with you every step of the way and we're fighting for you.
- [48:49]
Gavin Newsom
I love that I'm old. Remember, I was part of something called America's Promise. I was tapped by Mayor Willie Brown in San Francisco as a brand new supervisor. And it was a volunteer initiative, but really inspired me. We have the largest volunteer corps in America right now, bigger than the Peace Corps, this guy Josh Friday, who's running for me. Our service efforts are next level. It's about service, patriotism, about common experience. But there was a principle. I remember it was a former general that said, no one stands taller than when he or she bends down on one knee to lift someone else up. And, and I'll never forget that, this notion, I mean, of bending down on one knee to lift other people up. And now you watch these guys belittling vulnerable communities, mocking peoples with disabilities, mocking people that are just trying to survive, as you try to suggest.
- [49:39]
Ben Mezales
When I love seeing you, I mean, what has become apparent to me as I've watched you is that beyond being a politician or being a governor, you seem to. I guess I'm changing. I'm questioning you now. You seem to really enjoy being around people, people. You seem to love the energy in the room and you're at your happiest when you're there versus necessarily doing like. And that to me shows like. And I think that's what's connecting, in my view. But that I, I think that's.
- [50:13]
Gavin Newsom
If someone walks up to you on the street and, and starts to say something, they're starting to tear up and you give them a hug, you're like, this is like this magical moments, man. This is life. Life. What a gift to just people. Communities to be seen. I mean, I'll tell you just, I mean, some of the most extraordinary experiences I've had, period, full stop, have been around some of these ICE raids and with the federalization of the National Guard and walking in some of our diverse communities and just walking the street and having people come up, just so scared, don't know what to do. And just being able to hug people and absorb that and just take that in and recognize how, how scared people are, man. And what a gift it is to be able to have this bully pulpit, the opportunity to try to do something about it. It's also, it's, it's humbling. There's tremendous amount of Grace in that. But no, I, this is. At the end of the day, I, I love that we started. You just talked about this, about damn people, and you know, look, I, I fail in that regard as well. We start, I'm, I'm talking about, I remember defending the Biden record. We're the envy of the world. The best GDP growth, you know, with record breaking on, you know, this record breaking that. I'm doing 15.4 million jobs, 8. The last three Republican presidents combined. And people are like, no wonder we struggle with that message, man. It wasn't. We didn't connect it down to real people. It was as if we're all living in the aggregate or something.
- [51:31]
Ben Mezales
The hard part when I was a litigator, though, is sometimes you draw a judge that's appointed by the other side and no matter how much work you put into a case, you could be with that client and you kind of know this outcome is going to be a rough one. So the blessing that I have in this current platform, you know, when I was at the no Kings peaceful protest out here in Los Angeles, I mean, it's still a strange concept for me because I don't leave my house all that much because I told you about the schedule that I have when I went out there. And all these people are coming up to me and saying, you've changed my life and thank you so much. I was like, that's why I do what I do.
- [52:09]
Gavin Newsom
And it's such a inspiring man. Right?
- [52:11]
Ben Mezales
It just makes me want to wake up earlier every day. And there's not enough hours in the day to be helpful and be in this moment. And that to me is so key is, are you meeting this moment right now? And how are you meeting this moment right now? And every day before I go to sleep, I go, did I meet the moment today with my coverage? Did I do something to expand the network or to improve? Did I win this messaging war, this information battle that's out there? And I hope to try to answer that yes, every day before I go to sleep.
- [52:43]
Gavin Newsom
How do you balance in the. That space, all of the noise constantly chasing, Right? I mean, every day this guy's shape shifting. Another true social, another crazy meme, another absurd. You know, I mean, this guy's just flood. Talk about floods. His own. He can't, he can't even spend 20 minutes relaxing on Air Force One on a flight. He has to run back there and hang out with the mri.
- [53:06]
Ben Mezales
They got the greatest, the greatest MRI in the history of mri.
- [53:09]
Gavin Newsom
I didn't know There was anyone who's had an mri. Perfect mri, by the way. I'm not aware of anyone going into get an MRI that wasn't going in for a reason.
- [53:19]
Ben Mezales
Yeah, when I had pictures, when I was speculating, my MRI freaked me out. When I did the mri, they put me in that machine.
- [53:25]
Gavin Newsom
I was like, just close your eyes when you go in and do not open your eyes. That's the key.
- [53:29]
Ben Mezales
Exactly. But it was. It reminded me of what you said before Trump did the initial invasion. And all he wanted to talk to, like that call he had with you was, you know.
- [53:40]
Gavin Newsom
Right. This is right before he federalized the national guard and put 7,000 active duty Marines on the streets of the second largest city.
- [53:46]
Ben Mezales
Gavin, you like my hats, guy?
- [53:47]
Gavin Newsom
I mean, how many hats did I sell?
- [53:49]
Ben Mezales
What do you think of the debate with Kamala?
- [53:53]
Gavin Newsom
She did pretty well. Because it was, you know, I said it was just two. You know, he goes. He said, something's two against one. I said, yeah, it was two against one. I was, you know, what do you mean, two against one? Because no, it's five against one. The cameramen were against me as well. I mean, he's. Look, this notion of not being the. Doesn't matter if he's the heel or the hero as long as the damn star. And so how do you. And this goes back to the question I wanted to ask you. How do you sort of curate the moment, talk about living in the moment and being accountable at this moment? How do you not fall prey to reacting to what he wants you to react? Because it seems like me, we're perfectly sheep. When he sits out there and puts the 2028 hat on there, when Speaker Jeffries, or soon to be Speaker Jeffries and Chuck Schumer are there to troll them, he knows exactly what we're going to do. We're going to run with that. There's an old phrase says he pisses on the grasshoppers just to hear them sing. So he knows exactly what he's doing in that respect. How do we avoid the temptation to always respond to that versus to focus on the essential?
- [54:58]
Ben Mezales
I think you have to lead with your principles and your values. And not trying to be corny about that, the reality is that we know who we are as a network. When we talk about values like empathy, when we talk about pro democracy, when we talk about fighting for people who are going to be losing their healthcare, when we listen, we can frame things always through that values and principles set. And so it filters through that. So it's fairly Easy for me not to be like, how should I cover this? And I'm not looking to see how is this network doing it or that network doing it. I go, how do I feel about this? Why did we create this network? And how we're so in tuned with our audience that it almost is second nature about how we respond and what areas do we avoid and kind of how to go into these issues Now. I think that there's a process where we, we evolve over time and we get more sophisticated. I think that mistakes that I've made, I should have focused more on how international events were impacting the United States and not looking in 2024, the election as just a horse race and understanding that there are other factors that are taken. But I usually look at it through what's my values and principles set. And I have a broader view than just Trump and Magna. My view is that this right wing populism, anti immigrant is actually not unique to Trump. America's the biggest country, so he's, I mean one of the biggest, so he's a vessel of it in a very big and exaggerated way. But this stuff coming from Putin and coming from Orban and manifested in Bukele and Javier, Milei La Pen in France, the Reform Party in the uk, this is part of a broader situation. And so as I frame the network, it's not necessarily unique to what's the pushback to Trump on a day, yes, there's some days you need to respond, but more broadly is what's the response to this right wing tidal wave that is trying to take down all of the post enlightened thinking that democracy was built on. And that's really where we are. This is a rise of authoritarian and this right wing, whatever you want to call it, against all of the building that had taken place really since the Declaration of Independence, their constitution and developing a more perfect union. That's what it is. And as all of this information has flooded the zone, you would think that's a good way that people get educated. But paradoxically, I think it's brought us back to the dark ages and the feudal times, because lots of information doesn't mean good information. And so with AI, with all of this info that's out there, it is what I think the kind of right wing authoritarians want to create is this kind of lord versus peasant dynamic that existed in the dark ages when people didn't have access to information. And I think we risk creeping into that. So it's a long winded and philosophical answer to your question. But we have to be frame, I'm fraying in that. And I don't think lots of people who are building networks, I think they go, why did Donald Trump do it? That's a mistake. The broader issues is making these holistic connections and gearing the network towards a higher calling. And then I could respond on a day to day basis. What am I going to say?
- [58:33]
Gavin Newsom
I love it. I mean there's so many things what you just said that I want to unpack that particularly resonate with me. This notion of, you know, your why, you know, why you exist and so the what and how is easy than that. I think about it it and forgive me bringing up Clinton again, but you know, I remember his campaign, I remember was so resonant to me. Maybe it was just my age at the time, but this notion of community, responsibility, opportunity, that he was able through that lens to then advance policy and express the why and the what and the how of his campaign and ultimately his presidency. But what you said specifically about Trump being an historic figure. I think he's historic. He's an historic figure because he's most historically unpopular figure, but he's also historically redundant. I, I, you joked about the call I had with Trump where he starts bringing up maga. He goes, hey Gavin, you know, what do you think of Mega? It's a pretty good brand. I said, it's not even original. I said, Donald, Ronald Reagan made, had made America great. Heck, there was someone running for governor of California against Jerry Brown. Her entire campaign. She put $173 million dollars up to be governor of California. It was make California great again. You're redundant. And I'll remind everybody or remind them if you're not illuminated or at least illuminate. But it may be interesting. There was a guy named Dennis kearney in the 1880s in California. He was in the East Bay, San Francisco East Bay. He ran the working men's party. And he literally began and ended every speech. I'm trying to connect President Xi right now to whatever else we do. He ended every speech, whatever else we do. The Chinese, Munson and they were building virtue walls. I mean you can go back the Chinese museums and all across the state of California you'll see all of these old illustrations around. The Chinese must go. Chinese were the scapegoat. They're the reason you don't have X, Y and Z. We have to build the virtual wall and keep them away. It led to the Chinese Exclusion act in the late 1880s. And everything that Dennis Cardi represents is what Donald Trump represents today. He's an historic figure that literally is a redundant figure in terms of this larger historical experiment. And it's important for us to remind ourselves of that for two reasons. One is that we maintain our resiliency, we're able to work through and around these kinds of figures, but also to remind ourselves that we have to be vigilant as well in the authoritarian frame that you just advanced.
- [60:58]
Ben Mezales
He's deeply unpopular right now, and he historically unpopular. 37% in almost every category. Every category.
- [61:06]
Gavin Newsom
Weakness. Again. Weakness. Why is he trying to rig the election? Weakness. Why is he calling the governor of Indiana? Why did he move in Missouri? Why is he moving in? Why did he move in North Carolina, let alone Greg? Weakness. He's trying. He recognizes the clock they're going to. His minions are going after everything because they know the gig's up next November. Weakness. Forgive me.
- [61:30]
Ben Mezales
No. And he thought that by now he would control every layer of this. You know, he thought he was. Which he calls an ark. He thought he would build his triumphal arch, which is what he. That's the next focus after the Golden Ballroom. The Triumphal Arch.
- [61:46]
Gavin Newsom
I. Forgive me. I even forgot about that. The little figurine that he has in the little figurine that he's showing everybody.
- [61:53]
Ben Mezales
So he thought that if it's like.
- [61:55]
Gavin Newsom
The Arc of Triomphe. Oh, my God, that's coming, guys, pay attention to that. Sorry, man.
- [62:00]
Ben Mezales
He thought that everybody was gonna submit by now. So the fact that we're here right now in October, heading to the November 4th Prop 50 vote, you've exercised your moral and formal authority, you've inspired other states to step up, and we will see what they're gonna do. See what they're gonna do. Do in Virginia. Virginia. We'll see what they're going to do in Maryland.
- [62:22]
Gavin Newsom
Hopefully.
- [62:22]
Ben Mezales
We see leader Jeffries is in Illinois this week. So we'll see. But that's why you call it Prop 50 also, because it's not just about.
- [62:31]
Gavin Newsom
50 states, about the United States of America. It's about, again, I keep saying it, my God, how blessed are we. I mean, this notion of co. Equal branches of government, popular sovereignty, rule of law, you know, it's an extraordinary. It really is. I mean, I know you can get, you know, you can sort of fall to a romantic notion of it's hardly imperfect, but this notion, the architecture of this 249 years, you can't take it for granted.
- [62:57]
Ben Mezales
You know, how about this? When I talk about the shutdown, I talk about Fifth grade and Schoolhouse Rock, my fifth grade government class, that our system works where the parties are supposed to talk with each other. The idea that MAGA Mike Johnson ordered by Donald Trump to say we're not gonna talk with Democrats yet, alone, negotiate with Democrats, that's how I frame this issue in a very basic way. I go, one side's not Even talking when 20 million Americans healthcare is about to be ripped away. The other side, the Democrats, are there to talk and negotiate and try to figure out a solution. So let's just keep these issues pretty frickin simple here. Why don't they wanna talk? Why do they wanna do everything in silent? Why does Leader Jeffries say let's do a negotiation in public? Why did Donald Trump not want the cameras in the White House with the meeting with Leader Jeffries and Schumer? And you know what they said afterwards? That would just be theater. Donald Trump, Mag and Mike said that would just be theater.
- [63:58]
Gavin Newsom
Donald Trump saying it would be theater. Yeah, in the theater of the absurd is the fact. And I'll just remind everybody that he canceled. Donald Trump canceled the movie meeting just a week before the government shut down with the two leaders because of public pressure. He decided to agree to that meeting that he did in private with the 2028 trolling hats that they sent out as a tweet. And that weekend, right before the shutdown, he went golfing. He had zero interest in a deal, period. Full stop. Where is the President? United States. Now he's overseas. It's important to be overseas. But hold on. Don't you think it's more important to address the domestic crisis of his own making right now? Now, the airport shut down here in Los Angeles just this week. The fact that we have millions and millions of people during Thanksgiving that are not only paying more than they've ever paid for beef, paying more. 10.8% as of today, more for Halloween candy. They already had the indignity of paying more for their backpack and school supplies. God forbid he's not successful with President Xi. He may ruin Christmas for a. He's nowhere to be found. Speaker Johnson, as you said, doesn't want to negotiate. And Donald Trump quite literally doesn't give a damn that people's insurance, health insurance is going to be lost or tripled because he, in his big beautiful bill, just did the biggest cuts to Medicaid in American history. Forgive me for the long windedness. God bless the Democrats for standing up on all these things and being willing to fight for these things.
- [65:27]
Ben Mezales
Think about with President Trump what's the biggest issue? China. US Is China's stronghold on rare earths. And their ability to implement price controls, shut down the market of rare earths, that's not, whatever this framework is, is not going to even address that. It's gonna be window dressing so that Trump can say, look, I got soybean farmers. This at the expense of Taiwan. Look at the Middle East. They announced that what took place between Hamas and Israel was a peace deal. It was a ceasefire. And a ceasefire is a good thing. We want a ceasefire, we want the host hostages return. But they didn't address the central issue of whether there should be a two state solution. So how do you do a peace deal and not address that there should be a free Palestine in that? And how is it that Hamas wasn't a signatory, Israel's not a signatory. Going back to what we said earlier, to this ceasefire, and while we've seen, you know, dozens and dozens or more deaths of Palestinians, while Hamas has retaken control of Gaza, while Netanyahu doesn't support a two state solution yet, everybody's like, there must be a peace deal. I'm like, you didn't Fundamentally, historic peace.
- [66:42]
Gavin Newsom
Deal, unprecedented peace deal. He's moved on.
- [66:44]
Ben Mezales
Look, former President Biden brought back 83% of the hostages. Great. Donald Trump brought back the remainder. Both great.
- [66:52]
Gavin Newsom
Yes.
- [66:52]
Ben Mezales
But the issue ultimately is when we talk about these stories from a media network's perspective. When I was watching that and seeing how is corporate news covering it, peace deal, Time magazine cover one week, Time magazine cover the next week. And I'm like, what are we talking about? Am I in some crazy world? I go, did they even address two state solution? And they didn't.
- [67:12]
Gavin Newsom
Nope.
- [67:13]
Ben Mezales
So I'm like, then what are we. We know where this is headed, though, if they don't address that fundamental issue exactly right. So you can look at all of his conduct. We always see this fraudy element of it. And to your point, bringing it back to domestic, domestic. The American people are suffering. While he's doing all these things. The American people are. And not as some talking point, oh, no, they're really suffering. People are terrified right now that they're about to lose their health care. Who can pay another $20,000 a year?
- [67:41]
Gavin Newsom
27 is the average household cost for health injury, $7,000.
- [67:46]
Ben Mezales
People can't afford $1,000 more a year. Yet 27,000 is crazy.
- [67:51]
Gavin Newsom
No.
- [67:51]
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- [71:47]
Gavin Newsom
I mean people feel like they're going crazy and it's nice to find what you do is a place where they feel, you know, a sense of well being and you could sort of distill their fear and anxiety and express a relationship to it, but also an understanding to the broader context. And it begs this question. I mean there's a, you know, old Tom Freeman, he used to say the question that he thinks everyone should wake up and ask themselves an answer. Every elected official, every leader, broadly defined is what world are we living in and what are the trend lines that define this world? So I'd ask you more broadly, what world do you think think we're living in in the broader context?
- [72:25]
Ben Mezales
Well, I don't want to be living in the world of Don.
- [72:28]
Gavin Newsom
Okay. Yeah.
- [72:29]
Ben Mezales
I want to be living in a world where we aspire to be good. Like let me just keep it with the thing.
- [72:35]
Gavin Newsom
The one thing the founding fathers never considered. The notion of good character, just goodness, you know, it's a piece of paper, the Constitution, this notion of co equal branches of government. I mean we've seen with the supine Congress, supine Supreme Court. I mean we got a Supreme Court that literally Kavanaugh Court in this case because he did that brief where he says it's okay to racially profile based not just on the color, your spin, but where you congregate and the language you speak and obviously the supine nature of this speaker, Mike Johnson. But this ocean of character is foundational, isn't it? It's imbued in all of it, but it was never expressed.
- [73:15]
Ben Mezales
Ultimately, the Constitution is a contract. And going back to my being a professor, in every contract, there's the implied covenant of good faith and fair dealing in the Constitution as well. Good faith. Donald Trump's history of bankruptcy, his history of fraud, his history of being a felon, his history in general is one of bad faith, ripping contracts apart. They don't matter. The ultimate contract he's ripped apart is the Constitution. So to me, the Constitution can address, address every aspect of the good faith and fair dealing. I think that the founders, and this was perhaps a flaw in the document potentially was that people would behave in a way of good faith and fair dealing within the broader principles.
- [74:03]
Gavin Newsom
And we would assume we disagree with them. But, you know, and they may color around the lines a little bit, but.
- [74:09]
Ben Mezales
Yeah, so that needs to be brought back and that's not talked about a lot. Moral character and being a good person and behaving as an adult and a grownup. And I worry I'm raising a one year old girl right now and I'm glad that she doesn't fully see this right now, but I worry, especially when I teach these students who have now lived with Trump for they're going to be going on however long it's going to be, and that's been their life life that their worldview is shaped by bullying and low moral character or no moral character. And that's a problem. But that's why I think it's incumbent upon us in general, as a network, as a governor, as a professor, wherever we are in our day to reflect good moral character to the best of our ability. And we're all going to make mistakes. We're all human. We shouldn't be judgy.
- [75:04]
Gavin Newsom
We're not talking about holier than that now. It's just some basic principles.
- [75:08]
Ben Mezales
Do our best. Yeah, let's try.
- [75:09]
Gavin Newsom
No, I love that. So look, they're Democrats, seem to be doing their best. They seem to be united as it relates to the singular message around health care. But to be fair, it's even more than healthcare. Though I think they've done a brilliant job highlighting that issue. It's what you just said, this notion. Not the rule of law, but the rule of dawn. The Constitution doesn't matter, nor does the Congress. Whatever the Congress says. President with Russ Voight, what he claims, or as he refers to as Darth Vader, his words, not mine. They'll just do whatever the hell they want. Congressionally appropriated funds, they're gonna redirect them away from blue states, blue districts to red states and red priorities. How the hell, under those circumstances does this shutdown ever end?
- [75:51]
Ben Mezales
Well, I mean, that's why I think you have to continue to have. First off, I don't think it's gonna end this year. And frankly, I don't fully know know if it's going. The way it'll end, I think, is they'll kill the filibuster in the Senate.
- [76:08]
Gavin Newsom
See, I agree with you. It's interesting you say that, you know that I think that needs, that's gotta be more socialized.
- [76:13]
Ben Mezales
Yeah. To me, that's what's gonna happen. People are gonna get their letters November 1, that their monthly premiums are going up to $3,000 or whatever. 24 people are gonna rightfully panic and Trump's still not gonna wanna do it. He's not gonna wanna talk talk. He'll order thune to kill the filibuster. And to me, that's what they're gonna do. I mean, but the way we frame that there is almost the way Zelensky had to frame Putin coming in and let people know in advance what the plan is so that it was socialized before in anticipation. And when you think about these historical figures, Trump kind of thinks that, kind of thinks that. So you have to prepare people, people for what the moves are, which is what we try to do on the network. And that's where I think this ends up heading. Because Trump's never gonna speak with, he's never gonna allow Maga Mike to even speak with Democrats. It's not about the pressure. Trump likes the suffering. Like he doesn't care that people are in pain.
- [77:09]
Gavin Newsom
Cruelty and chaos is the policy. Exactly. So one thing, all these things haven't come quite objectively.
- [77:13]
Ben Mezales
Yeah.
- [77:14]
Gavin Newsom
Like I don't think that would offend him. The cold bloodedness of Stephen Miller as the implementer in all this. I mean, period, full stop, cruelty, chaos.
- [77:22]
Ben Mezales
But that's where Democrats can't be complacent. And where they got rightfully a lot of grief was when it seemed that they very early on were just gonna let Trump steamroll over them. And they were not speaking powerfully at that time and it was not being communicated in a way. But in this shutdown fight, it does seem that they've communicated it, that they're being more public and I feel, feel a better sense of. Okay, I see. And I think it was the right move to focus on healthcare, not because of the strategic, but because health care. Living like living is one of the.
- [78:00]
Gavin Newsom
Main concerns disproportionately is benefiting. I mean, it's universal. It's not just universal healthcare. It's universal. I mean, it's foundational in our lives, and it connects every single person together disproportionately in these red counties, which is the great irony of this. Who's representing whom? Democrats. Have your back. To my Republican friends, we have your back, and we're happy to come back to the negotiating table to fight for you. The President of the United States has no interest.
- [78:26]
Ben Mezales
And I just. Then I say, well, then what's your plan, Donald? Show me the plan.
- [78:30]
Gavin Newsom
Because here's an idea of a health care plan.
- [78:33]
Ben Mezales
Remember that 1600% discounts is what he says. He's going to reduce health discounts. That means they're going to pay you 16.
- [78:40]
Gavin Newsom
Can you. You.
- [78:41]
Ben Mezales
1600 or med beds. He's posting that there's secret UFO and outer space technology. We're going back to the MRI. You go, and we don't, like, got.
- [78:50]
Gavin Newsom
To whisper that because that's. I was. That's between us.
- [78:53]
Ben Mezales
You know about the med beds.
- [78:54]
Gavin Newsom
Of course. I mean, you know, that is.
- [78:56]
Ben Mezales
That's what. When.
- [78:57]
Gavin Newsom
We'll edit this later.
- [78:58]
Ben Mezales
When you're a governor, they read you in on med bed. Sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry.
- [79:02]
Gavin Newsom
You know, unbelievable.
- [79:04]
Ben Mezales
You got to tell me about the med.
- [79:05]
Gavin Newsom
No, I mean, that's a. That's a whole hold. Look how uncomfortable I am. This is very difficult. Let me. Let me step back and I. And I'm mindful. You got to get back to doing your damn work.
- [79:17]
Ben Mezales
I'm with the governor.
- [79:20]
Gavin Newsom
I really appreciate this conversation on so many levels, but I want to sort of step back and connect because I want to talk about. I mean, it's interesting, your perspective on the end of the filibuster, which I completely subscribe to. And I think more and more people are going to start to understand that's likely gonna be the outcome. We can talk a little bit more about where we are on November 4, because I think we're gonna be a much better place. And I think you've expressed why in relationship to what you just said, where we were as a party, how we acquiesced as it relates to the last potential government shutdown and now how we're finally unified and we're in a position of strength because we have both, as you suggest, the moral authority and formal authority where we're exercising our minority rights. That said, what do you make of the DOJ being sent out to Virginia? DOJ Sending out election observers here to California, five particular counties. What do you make of the federalization of the National Guard through election Day? This, I, forgive me in the pejorative, because a lot of good people that work for this agency, but I don't like how they're being abused and I don't like the way our community, communities are being assaulted and abused. So I don't, I don't say secret police lightly, but ICE and Border patrol masked that are out in and around, you know, Democracy center, where we did our kickoff for Prop 50, that I believe will be in and around polling booths and voting places around election day, not just this year, but next year. What do you make of all these things that are happening? Are they coincidental? Is it part of a larger strategy?
- [81:00]
Ben Mezales
The strategy is Donald Trump doesn't want elections. He doesn't like elections. He wants to be anointed king. He thinks like an authoritarian. So it's a test run for what he wants to do at the midterms. But more than a test run, it's very serious. He wants to send people at the doj, what he calls election watchers, to intimidate people. And without an appropriate check, without pushback. I think he wants them there to literally scare people. I think he wants the ICE agents to do what they're doing, when I call it what it is, the chemical warfare, the gas canisters that they're throwing.
- [81:33]
Gavin Newsom
The intimidation tactics himself that threw a damn container after being told you can't do it. The hell is that? Who the hell does he think he is?
- [81:42]
Ben Mezales
Yeah, I mean, and you saw him, what he was doing outside of your event.
- [81:46]
Gavin Newsom
Yeah, tough guy, everybody. You know what a just obliviating guy. I mean, seriously. Jesus. I mean, how the hell we. I mean. Well, we're going to talk about winning in a minute. Keep going.
- [81:56]
Ben Mezales
Well, you know, and then you have what the borders are. What's his name?
- [82:01]
Gavin Newsom
Oh, God. Bagman. Homan.
- [82:03]
Ben Mezales
Homan. Bagman Homan.
- [82:04]
Gavin Newsom
Well, forgive me, I don't mean to be. But I mean, where's the 50,000? Like, literally, can't they tell us where the $50,000 in cash is? I do serious. Where's the 50,000?
- [82:12]
Ben Mezales
Home depressions.
- [82:14]
Gavin Newsom
It's like, where's the damn Epstein files? Who's in it? I'm starting to get into that. Like, what the hell is that all about too? I mean, you can't even swear this person. What the hell is going on now? Even if you weren't following this now you'd be like, okay, hold on. Why is Ghislaine Maxwell on a minimum security. What the hell is going on?
- [82:28]
Ben Mezales
You know, I've spoken with a lot, the victims or the survivors of Epstein on the podcast and they said the strange thing about it is what the survivors will say. We weren't even really that focused on Trump. Like that wasn't why we goes. He goes, but he's just made it. This is what they'll all say. He made it about himself. He centered himself as that this is offensive.
- [82:49]
Gavin Newsom
Are you really starting. I never thought it was. I now I'm actually wondering what is in there.
- [82:55]
Ben Mezales
And now all the survivors, like that's.
- [82:56]
Gavin Newsom
I mean, I thought about just the tragedy. I mean, just never forget these poor victims and these poor souls, people that take their life. God bless. But no, there's a. There, there undoubtedly in that respect and.
- [83:09]
Ben Mezales
We know from all of the reporting out there that his name is all over those files apparently, and that he was told that.
- [83:16]
Gavin Newsom
Anyway.
- [83:17]
Ben Mezales
Well, that'll be our next interview. Interview with the poll thing after the method.
- [83:21]
Gavin Newsom
There's no issues there. I know everyone says what the hell we're talking about. Look it up. Look it up.
- [83:26]
Ben Mezales
So this is obviously part of a broader strategy to intimidate, to make people not show up to the polls. Obviously they tried to flood the zone right away saying that Prop 50 was unpopular. They pushed it, but you pushed back right away.
- [83:43]
Gavin Newsom
They put in 50 million right away. Yeah.
- [83:46]
Ben Mezales
And that was a fight. And people still obviously need to go out there and turn in the ballot, you know, home stretch work harder than ever. But they're looking at Virginia and they're seeing Spanberger and what a great campaign she's run versus Winsome Earl Sears.
- [84:03]
Gavin Newsom
Mikey, I mean, she's.
- [84:04]
Ben Mezales
Mikey also has been amazing in New Jersey. So they're targeting those areas, you know, for a reason. And it's part of a broader intimidation campaign.
- [84:12]
Gavin Newsom
Yeah. So it's. So begs the question, I mean, we have these campaigns, we have their campaign campaigns. Are you of the opinion that November 4th is going to be a big night for Democrats, that it could create some directional momentum, some enthusiasm potentially for the party, a sense that sort of we're on the precipice of turning the page or have turned the page or turning the corner in terms of being on the march? I mean, the seven. I love that you said the no Kings peaceful rally. Thank you for the way you framed that. Seven million people showed up for each other, not just for themselves, for the. Their kids, their communities, for our future, the world. I mean, in many respects, it counts on the United States as a stable partner.
- [84:53]
Ben Mezales
What do you think we're gonna do? I think the biggest peaceful protest in the history of the United States. And remember when they did those Tea Party things back in Obama, there was like 500,000 people who showed up, and that got all the coverage in the world. So you just see the difference there. But I think it's gonna be a big day.
- [85:11]
Gavin Newsom
But. But. So you're not there yet?
- [85:13]
Ben Mezales
No, no, no. It's.
- [85:14]
Gavin Newsom
I don't like buts.
- [85:15]
Ben Mezales
How about.
- [85:15]
Gavin Newsom
And.
- [85:16]
Ben Mezales
And we need to work and we need to work very hard, though. I don't want to take any day for granted.
- [85:22]
Gavin Newsom
There you go.
- [85:22]
Ben Mezales
And. And I think that's how I see November 4th. That's how I see the midterms is. And our reporting and our network in general. It's to always approach every day with kind of the utmost humility and recognize that, you know, anything can change in any given day. And again, we just have to win every day, day from now until then. And, you know, I played soccer in high school, and so, you know, just thinking about, you know, how a match is ultimately played. It is. Even if you're up, you know, two nothing or three nothing at halftime, that doesn't mean you go. I think we're absolutely, you know, you just got to go to the locker room and you got to finish. Even if you're up in the second half, you still gotta, you know, keep going. And so no matter what, I feel good, but feelings and vibes, we have to manifest the outcomes versus just believing that there are people out there that'll do it. And I think that's something that you've shown and other people, I hope the Midas Touch Network shown that if three brothers, if me, my two brothers, and I'll give a shout out to my whole team here, Salty and Jeremy and all the great people better give me a shout out in front of Newsom. Salty. Thank you, buddy.
- [86:34]
Gavin Newsom
Anyone named Sale? Salty. He's my kind of guy.
- [86:36]
Ben Mezales
Yeah. UC Santa Barbara guy, isn't it? He's Salty. There you go, Salty. I did that one for you. It was not a foregone conclusion that three brothers with very little political experience, zero experience, no media network experience, would be able to manifest this. And so the message I hope it sends to everybody, whether your skill is an educator, a chef, a songwriter, a builder, whatever your skill is, flower maker, whatever a florist, flower maker, just do whatever your skill is and contribute, and you can make a send letters show up knock on doors. And you've said this a lot that the future is something that you manifest and not experience. And we can't just think think that because the American experience has been a certain way, it will be there for us. This whole lesson is quite the contrary. And so we each play our own part every day. That's the Midas touch part that we've played in our own way. And we can all do little things.
- [87:42]
Gavin Newsom
I love it. I mean it's, yeah, the spirit of the future is not something experience to manifest. It's inside of us, not in front of us. So here's to the future. You're crushing it, brother. It's amazing what you you built, but what you build is not just a platform. It's given the Democratic Party real hope and sense of momentum that we can finally get back on the messaging side of this war as well and that we can communicate more effectively, we can reach more people and be strategic about it as well. And, and I just, you know, most folks I know on this podcast know a little bit about you guys, but I don't think they appreciate how you are crushing it and how you're completely reinventing the game for the pro democracy folks out there. And so just mad respect to you. Keep it up to salty. Thank you brother Ben. It's been a hell of a conversation. I really appreciate it. Thank you guys. Absolutely.
- [88:52]
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Ben Mezales
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Ben Mezales
You live in your neighborhood as well. So when you're shopping for a home, you want to know as much about.
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Ben Mezales
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- [92:13]
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This is an iHeart podcast.