Gavin Newsom (2:44)

This is Gavin Newsom. And this is Dr. Phil McGraw. Well, I appreciate you coming on Dr. Phil and I've been eager to have this conversation because I've been watching a number of your conversations. You've been having very public conversations, but also just in the media and obviously now with your own new Merit street media enterprise. It's really interesting to read the punditry and try to read between the lines. What's Dr. Phil up to? Is this a big shift to the right or is he just self actualizing a little bit more in terms of his personal points of view or is it completely consistent with the person we watch for 21 years on daytime TV? What's, what's your, what's your overall sentiment around the independent analysis and punditry about all things Dr. Phil right now?

Dr. Phil McGraw (3:38)

Well, you know, Governor, I'm, I'm glad you asked that question because I have to say I'm probably the, the least political person I know, although I have certainly been painted with that brush of late and, and not completely hard to understand, but, and, and I say that I'm not political because I deal with cultural issues, psychosocial issues, and, and I differentiate that from politics because, frankly, I'm not very sophisticated in the political arena. I don't know a lot about it. You know, I can watch that after school special about how a bill becomes a law and all of that. And I learned something every time I watch it again. And I'm not, I'm not. That's not false humility. I really don't understand politics. I certainly don't understand geopolitics on, on the international stage. And, and I really don't seek to. I really am focusing on cultural issues, and politicians talk about cultural issues a lot. And so that creates an intersection of, of content and values. And to me, when I'm focusing on those issues, those values, I could care less whether somebody is a Democrat or a Republican. I'm not sure there's a whole lot of difference when we really boil it down to where people really stand. I don't think we're nearly as divided as I think the legacy media would lead us to believe we are. And so really, I'm, I'm of a strong belief that the strength of any culture, any society, lies in the family. And I think family and family values have been under attack in America. I wrote a book in 2004 called Family first, and I said in that book that I thought family in America was under attack. And I, I certainly think family values have been increasingly under attack. And admittedly, a lot of that attack I think is coming from the extreme left, from what I think are the, what I call the tyranny of the fringe. It's, it's not really mainstream America on either side of the aisle. I think it's from really extreme activists, and I don't think they really represent the mainstream on either side of the aisle. So I, I think it's, I think we've got the tail wagging the dog on a lot of these cultural issues, to tell you the truth.

Gavin Newsom (6:58)

I appreciate it. I want to go Back to your consistency on the notion of family and the challenges there. I'm curious, just over the last few decades, I imagine people tried to pull you in 20 years ago, pull you into their campaigns, pull you into their rallies, pull you into their point of view. You know, were you, you, were you tempted ten years ago to, To. To. To find your way into this, or have you really always tried to sort of maintain a status above and, and, you know, sort of separate and above?

Dr. Phil McGraw (7:34)

I've always tried to stay out of it. You know, people made a lot of it when I went to the Trump rally at Madison Square Garden, you know, this time around. But if people listen to what I said, I started my comments and remarks during that appearance by saying, I'm not here to endorse President Trump. I don't agree with everything he says or everything he does. I said the first things out of my mouth. If you go back and listen to what I said is, I'm not here to endorse him. I don't agree with everything he says and does. What I don't like is people bullying those and ostracizing those who do support and say they're going to vote for him. And I said, I'll give this identical speech at a Harris rally and volunteered to do so. And they actually contacted me and talked to me about doing exactly that. And I said, absolutely. Let me know when, let me know where. Gave them all the contact information to set it up, and then they didn't follow up on it after that. But I wanted to speak at that, one of those events as well. I think we need to talk to each other. I think we need a dialogue that we're not having. And if we stay in our bubble, I don't think we're ever going to get a unity in this country.

Gavin Newsom (9:16)

And I appreciate that. I will say, having listened to this speech, I don't think you would have referred to Kamala as a tough old boot.

Dr. Phil McGraw (9:24)

No, I wouldn't have done that. I would change that line for sure.

Gavin Newsom (9:31)

There'd be a few lines. By the way, was it the president himself that reached out directly to you to get you to speak at that rally, or was it members of the campaign team? Were they aggressive, least, seeking your participation?

Dr. Phil McGraw (9:44)

They were. And, you know, I had already interviewed President Trump, and I've known him for 20 years.

Gavin Newsom (9:53)

Right.

Dr. Phil McGraw (9:54)

I, I haven't spent a lot of time with him, but I've known him for a long time, and I'd interviewed him for my show in the past and had known him like, say, not well, but had known him personally away from television and away from all that. But his team asked me to come and interview him and I, I had asked to interview him when he was, during running his campaign, and he agreed. And then they asked me to make an appearance there and I said I would, but I'll decide what I say and it will probably be different from what you hear from everybody else. And they said that's okay. They agreed. No.

Gavin Newsom (10:44)

Well, that's, I mean, it's, it's, you know, the answer is no unless you ask. And so I certainly appreciate the fact that they were able to diversify the number of voices that were participating in, in not only those rallies, but, you know, some a little more toxic than others, including at that rally, sort of infamously. But.

Dr. Phil McGraw (11:03)

So how about you? Are you going to run in 28?

Gavin Newsom (11:07)

Just, you're jumping right into that. I want to jump first, though, into what you just launched, which was Merit Street Media. And so after 21 ridiculously successful years running your own show, you decided to move and did this pivot and you did it as well, writing a book that goes to a lot of the issues that you're raising, including on the issue of family, called We've Got Issues. But tell us a little bit more because I'm not sure everybody is fully familiar with this larger media company. Not just sort of the work you're doing as a host yourself, but what you're trying to achieve it at Merritt Street.

Dr. Phil McGraw (11:45)

Well, you know, I did spend 21 years at CBS and I have to say it's has was a wonderful experience. And I, I made wonderful relationships at cbs. They'll forever be a warm place in my heart. And got nothing but good things to say about my experience there. I, I was led their daytime lineup. Of course, it was syndicated, so they weren't all CBS stations, but that was my primary station group. I had great primetime shows on CBS as well and are working on some with them now. We're still in business together. But I wanted to do more than that. I, I, I felt like an hour a day was not enough time to really do the things that I felt like I wanted to do because I was not comfortable and was very troubled by a lot of what I was seeing going on in this country. And I'll tell you a story. I was sitting in our kitchen in California, where we were living at the time, and I was flipping back and forth. Robin and I were sitting there having dinner, and we were kind of flipping back and forth and going from one kind of news channel to another news channel to another news channel. And I was really frustrated by saying, you know, this is so much propaganda, so much spin. You can't really tell. You'd be on one channel and flip to another. And they're talking about the same events or incidents, and you can't even tell they're talking about the same thing.

Gavin Newsom (13:49)

Amen.

Dr. Phil McGraw (13:50)

Because they're spinning it so much. Yep. And I said, you know, this, this. This just drives me crazy. The media's driving me crazy. Why won't they just tell you what happened? And without even looking up dinner, she said, well, why don't you do something about it? You are the media. And he said, your ratings are bigger than both of them combined. Why don't you do something about it? And, you know, that was really the genesis of it, because I. I wanted to own the debate lane in America. I wanted to have a platform where I could bring two sides together or three sides or four sides if, if necessary to give people the facts and let them make up their own mind. And, you know, because it's such a big issue in California, homelessness, for example, there are more than two sides to homelessness. People have different theories about how to resolve this. You know, why is housing so expensive? Do you do home first, or do you work on getting people back on their feet and they earn their right to be given housing and shelter? Or is that a fundamental human right? You know, there are different sides to those issues. You think, well, you know, how could you be debating over that? But they're hugely passionate, different sides on, on even, even that issue. And, and I do give both sides a chance to talk about that. And we, we have great and intelligent decisions. You know, right now, this Israeli Palestinian conflict, I've taken very bold positions on that. And it's is astounding to me. I am hearing things on our college campuses that I never thought I would hear in my lifetime. The anti Semitism that I'm. I'm hearing. And I have given a platform to. At one time it was pro Palestinian. Now it's pro Hamas. It's just straight up demonstrations in favor of a terrorist group that has killed 48Americans since its formation in the early 1980s. And I, I find that difficult to understand how we have young American students.

Gavin Newsom (16:30)

Conflating the two, conflating Hamas, protesting for.

Dr. Phil McGraw (16:33)

Hamas, which is a terrorist group that has killed Americans and until recently was holding American hostages. They still have four that are not alive. But the last American hostage was just released in Idan Alexander and I spoke with his parents the next morning on the air and had a wonderful celebratory interview with them. And I'm hearing things on these campuses that tell me that we're just not teaching critical thinking among our young people anymore. And that's very troubling to me. So and I've given a voice to those and been criticized for giving a voice to the pro Palestinian, pro Hamas side. But I think people need to hear what they think and how committed they are and how misguided I believe they are. But I do give them a voice so people understand what we're up against.

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Gavin Newsom (20:48)

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Gavin Newsom (21:37)

Not that I've stress tested what you've been saying along these lines. Not specific to the conflict in the Middle east, but more broadly about trying to find a lane of a little bit more balance. I watched specifically your 100 day analysis of the Trump administration and I thought it was extraordinarily fair. You made some points that were, you know, were very not revelatory to me but I thought important to make particularly on the issue of immigration of which you received criticism. At the same time, you're hardly anti immigrant, but you made a point on that 100 day show that I think underscores the point you're trying to make, and that is what is omitted often in our discourse, particularly in some of these platforms and these cable shows, is the fact that the Biden administration was deporting has been at least through a period that marked, I think around February, more people are being deported on the Biden administration than even the Trump administration. Not something you see necessarily on some of, on some of these cable shows in order to sort of highlight and reinforce the importance of not just misinformation or disinformation, but what is omitted from our conversation.

Dr. Phil McGraw (22:51)

No, we're, listen, we're embedded with ICE and they've allowed us full access at Merit tv. And let me tell you, when I say full access, there, there are no guidelines now there to be completely fair. There are some rules in terms of not disclosing certain investigatory techniques that they have, but other than not disclosing things that might put agents lives in danger, we're, there are no rules. We, we can show every case. They're not cherry pick cases. And, and we're able to show everything that is going on. And I just watched the mischaracterization and I've come to know Tom Holman very well. This is a very sincere and compassionate man. And you know, they have three primary goals. Number one is the worst. First they talk about these cable networks, talk about they're going in and sweeping neighborhoods and kind of anybody with a tan is subject to getting picked up. That is absolutely not true. I, I have seen that they are going after the worst first that they build a file. They know where these people are, they know what they're guilty of doing and they target them. These are targeted arrest warrants that they're executing and taking these people out. So that's their number one goal. They wanted to close the border. They've effectively done that. And then number three is to find the missing children because there are hundreds of thousands of children that have gone missing. Many are known to be sold into the sex trade or the forced labor trade. And those children need to be rescued. Now some of them have found their way to family that is already here. But I fear there are at probably a couple of hundred thousand that are being forced into lives that are horrendous and that they don't want to be in. And those are their three primary objectives. And I hear these, they're just outright misinformation about what they're doing. And, and if you've seen interviews I've done with Tom Holman, I asked him straight up, are you raiding schools and taking children out of school so they can be deported. Are you sitting on doctors offices and hospitals to catch these people when they go to get health care? Or are you going after the worst first? And I ask the hard questions and they give me straight up answers and the support for those answers. I'm very pro immigration. Look, our birth rate has dropped below what we need infrastructure wise to, I mean, to sustain our infrastructure here, we need a birth rate of 2.1 and we've dropped to a little below 1.6. We better get immigrants into this country. We need the talent, we need the, the diversity, we need the, the headcount and the birth rate. We desperately need immigrants in this country. But there's a right way and a wrong way to do it. I look at America as my home and I wouldn't let anybody into my house if I didn't know who they were. Would you? I don't think anybody would, but we've done that. We've let millions of people into this country without knowing who they are. And clearly some of those are on a terror watch list and they're here now. And you know, I think, I think.

Gavin Newsom (26:49)

Everything you said, Dr. Phil, I think the vast majority of people would find particularly rational. But you have to acknowledge, and I, I don't say this lightly, I say this with intimate familiarity. I mean, we've had quote unquote wellness checks in the public schools. We've had some folks that are going to immigration courts that are being picked up in and around immigration courts. There's been a chilling impact across the country, not just in states like California. We had a lot of day laborers picked up in California. We had a federal judge intervene under a lawsuit and actually admonished some of the border patrol for their activities in respect to that or, or ice. But I, I, I do, I do appreciate there's an intensity of, of, of anxiety and a lot of rhetoric that is thrown around that is not nuanced. And I don't know that the president himself is aiding and embedding in finding some common ground here. It uses some pretty extreme language which I think kind of chills the conversation and chills. I think our capacity to sort of find some common ground on legitimate concerns around border security and thoughtful and comprehensive strategies to get the best and the brightest from around the world.

Dr. Phil McGraw (28:05)

Well, I think there's a right way and a wrong way to get into the country. And I don't think these people are being picked up that are here legally. And if they are here legally, Then they don't have anything to worry about. If they came in illegally, not at a point of entry, then they are subject to being removed. That in and of itself is a crime, is it not?

Gavin Newsom (28:28)

No, and I'm not denying that. But are you ask. I mean, and again, I'm not looking to get into debate about immigration policy. I'm just seeing some. Some nuance in terms of the language and I think some of the rhetoric and the reality on the ground, as someone that is on the ground addressing some of that reality. It's not just the worst. First, it may be. That may be the policy, but that's not necessarily the practice as it relates to those that are here without documentation. I mean, you know, you've got folks from Newt Gingrich that was supporting amnesty in 1985, Reagan himself that did the amnesty bill shortly thereafter. And, and obviously, we've got to address those that have been here for decades. I don't imagine we want to get all of them because they're quote, unquote, illegally and send them and deport them all back. I'm not. Imagine you're arguing for that.

Dr. Phil McGraw (29:18)

Well, but here's the thing. If, if. And let me argue another side of this. We've got an immigration court that is horribly dysfunctional. Yeah. Takes seven, eight years. Yeah. Ridiculous court date. And that is a broken system. We need to fix that 100%. When, when you've got somebody that maybe they have a legitimate reason, a compelling reason to get out of their home country for, for safety reasons, for fear of. Of. Of violence from gangs or whatever. And so they make application, go to the United States, and we say, great, you know, here's a, Here, here's a court date in 2032. Well, I'm sorry, I got people coming by my house threatening to cut off my arms and legs on a daily basis. 2032 doesn't really work for me. We've got to fix that. I 100% acknowledge that. Yeah. The other hand, if we've got people that are here illegally, they're either here legally or they're not here legally. And so we have to take some ownership in the fact that. That we've got a broken system for getting process into this country.

Gavin Newsom (30:38)

That's right.

Dr. Phil McGraw (30:39)

Doesn't change the fact that we have people that are here illegally. And most of them are not fleeing. They're here fleeing violence. They're here for economic reasons. And this is the greatest country in the world. Of course, if I was in El Salvador or somewhere and had a dirt Floor and pennies a day for wages. Would I want to be in America? Of course I would want to be in America. We've got to do some things on our end to make this more functional.

Gavin Newsom (31:11)

But we agree with that.

Dr. Phil McGraw (31:12)

And, and I, I hate these sanctuary guidelines where they will not cooperate with ICE agents to get someone that is currently in custody, which means they've broken the law and local law enforcement has had reason to pick them up and, and detain them. If you tell ICE about that and they can come get them and take them out at that point, you're going to have a whole lot less of the people you're talking about get arrested when they go into the community. Then you have one ICE agent on, one bad actor, and they're gone. If they have to go into the neighborhood, they're going to arrest that person and they're going to check everybody that's around them. And that's.

Gavin Newsom (32:01)

As you know, Dr. Phil, I mean, in California, I can only speak for myself as governor. We've, we've cooperated in that respect with folks that are in custody in state prisons. Over 10,000 specific examples of, of that kind of cooperation. So not a lot of daylight on that. I guess I'm just more concerned about the larger rhetoric that everyone's here, quote, unquote, illegally, which I get on the technical terms, but the notion of what the heck we do about it. I agree with you on comprehensive. Need for comprehensive reforms. I think the asylum system is broken. There's been all kinds of bills rejected by both parties to address this issue. There was a bipartisan immigration package that Rubio himself, among many others, supported to deal with immigration backlogs and judges and address some of those concerns, but they seem to get just watered down or eliminated because of the toxicity of our politics. And, and that's my concern now is how the hell do we soften that edge, which I think you want, so we can find unity and common ground and unify the country, which you talk a lot about. But how. How do we begin to do that in a more rational way is. I mean, I think rhetoric still matters, does it not?

Dr. Phil McGraw (33:11)

Words are powerful. Yeah, words are absolutely powerful. And, you know, when. When I see things happening, and I see it a lot with the death threats and hate speech and rhetoric that I get when I come out and condemn what happened on October 7th in Israel. Yeah.

Gavin Newsom (33:37)

And by the way, just for the record, I flew to Israel right after the 7th and, and met with leadership. We actually brought a hospital, a field hospital with us, so I appreciate that condemnation. Want to make that clear.

Dr. Phil McGraw (33:51)

Well, and I know you made that trip and I was, I was so glad to see you do that. I spent 21 years in, in California and I was, I was proud to see you take the initiative to do that because you didn't have to do that. And when I say words are powerful and, but thank you for doing that.

Gavin Newsom (34:15)

Just.

Dr. Phil McGraw (34:16)

I didn't finish my sentence. Thank you for doing that. I think the rhetoric has gotten way out of control when, when you shoot two people on the street in Washington D.C. outside a museum. And you know, Milgram, the young woman, she grew up in Overland Park, Kansas. I mean, this is not an activist that is really driving the story here. And the young man was an Israeli Christian, for God's sakes. And they should kill these two people and then start yelling, free Palestine. Free Palestine. I can, I say that, that, that those shootings were due to out of control and fiery rhetoric. I have no proof for that. And, and I don't make claims if I don't have empirical evidence to support it. But common sense suggests that, that this kind of rhetoric, that, that people that maybe were deranged to begin with, marginalized to begin with, looking for a cause, celebrate. This same individual was active with BLM before this. So, you know, was that the cause at the time? Now this is the bandwagon that, that he's jumping on. It just makes it easy for people to get involved in and we've got to tone down the rhetoric. And, and when you see, you know, Harvard and Upenn and Columbia University, the leadership there, not only con. Condoning, but in, in some ways, I think, enabling and empowering this, I think we've lost our way. I mean, the, these people, these young people, I think are being agitated from the outside as well as the inside. And this isn't free speech, Governor. This is, this has gone beyond that. When they're, I was on the UCLA campus when they took down the encampment there to those, those protesters there. And was there hate speech? Yes, but it was still speech. But I also saw them surrounding Jewish students and not allowing them to move across campus. Some were assaulted, they occupied and defamed and vandalized buildings.

Gavin Newsom (37:09)

And by the way, Dr. Phil, just for the record, out of so much frustration, we had to send the California Highway Patrol in because they were not enforcing these laws and they were not protecting those students. So I, I, we were very critical and I appreciate your critique of what was happening on the UCLI campus. You're absolutely spot on, well, we were.

Dr. Phil McGraw (37:30)

With law enforcement as they were staging to go in and take them down. And I, I will say this about all of the law enforcement agencies that were doing this. I was speaking with them moments, you know, they were staging a couple of miles away from the campus and they had their buses there and all the troops there. And we were speaking to leadership over there at 2:30, 3:00 clock in the morning.

Gavin Newsom (37:56)

That was, I was, trust me, I was up at 2:30, 3 in the morning when we finally pulled the orders.

Dr. Phil McGraw (38:03)

Yeah, I was asking them, tell me what your plan is and what your number one objective is. And there was nobody there but us. And they, they allowed me to be there because they know how pro law enforcement I am, how much I support their sacrifices that they make to keep the rest of us safe. And every single one of them. And I talked to them individually, you know, 40, 50 yards away from each other. They all said the same thing. Our number one objective is that everybody gets home safe tonight. UCLA students, the protesters, all of our officers. Yeah, even these protesters that were hurling these insults at them and calling them every name in the book. Their number one objective was that those people get home safe. They weren't, oh boy, we're going to. Went in there and kick some ass. No, no, no, they, they said with great sincerity, we just want everybody to get home safe tonight. You know, tomorrow's another day. Let's get everybody home safe tonight. And I said, will that happen? They said, well, that depends on them. If they follow our directions, then they'll get home safe tonight. The second worst thing is we'll detain them and cite them and then they'll get home safe. But we, we want everybody to get home safe tonight. And I had such great respect for them that there's number one, even the protesters, they absolutely wanted them to get home safe.

Gavin Newsom (39:35)

Yeah. No, they did it. They did a really admirable job that night. And while there was a few modest incidences, they conducted themselves extraordinarily well in terms of how they reacted to those incidents. It only reinforced their stewardship. And not just on the UCLA campus, many other campuses, not just in California, of course, all across this country.

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Gavin Newsom (43:32)

One of the things that, you know, I think it's the conversation we're having here is around how you work through these things and how we work through our differences and how we find commonality. You began with, you opened up by saying you don't think our politics is, you think, you know, mainstream media sort of, you know, sort of exacerbates the conditions, this divisions that we're not as far apart as we may appear. Tell me a little bit more about what your thinking is in that respect. You, you mean that more broadly about sort of universal values of being loved and need to be loved, being protected, connected, respected. Or do you mean that on issues like immigration, issues like human rights and social justice, or on what topics?

Dr. Phil McGraw (44:16)

Look, conflict sells tickets. You know, if, if you're doing the news and your lead headline is Today at third. Now nothing happened that just doesn't sell tickets, right? But if you can say today at third, nail chaos broke out. Throw to the, throw to the video. Now everybody turns around and looks and that's just kind of how we have been shaped and, and fashioned into following the news. But the truth of the matter is, I believe anytime I'm negotiating with somebody, the first thing I do is say, look, we've got differences. I agree with that. I think you and I have some differences in the way we look at things. But if, if we were going to try to find some common ground, the first thing I would do is say, you know, Governor, let's first talk about everything we agree about. Yeah, let's just, let's talk about the things that we agree about because I think if we do that we're going to find that we're not near as divided or different as we might think we are. And I, I, let's look at it on a, from a broad standpoint. If, if you sit down with the most polarized folks and say, let's talk about what we agree about in America. Everybody wants a, a safe and, and healthy country. Nobody would disagree with that. Everybody wants to leave a good, green, clean, prosperous country for our children. Nobody would disagree with that. Everybody wants us to have a strong economy. Everybody would agree with that. Everybody wants us to be a good leader in the world and, and set a good example for other countries. Everybody would agree with, with that. Now, we might disagree about how we go about achieving those things, but everybody would agree with where we're trying to get. Yep. And I think one of the most critical days in this country's history was 9 12, not 9 11. 911 was one of the darkest days in our history, of course, but on 9 12, everybody woke up, and we were Americans first. There weren't Democrats, there weren't Republicans. We were all Americans. And I just pray that something like that doesn't have to happen again for people to remember that, hey, wait a minute. We're all wearing the same color jersey. We may have some differences on issues, but we're all Americans and we all love this country, and we all want fundamentally the same things. And if we remember that first, then I think we have a foundation to work from, a foundation to build on. And, you know, I just, I pray we don't need to be reminded of that by being under attack. And I, I think if we do remember that, if we do take that approach and we go, hey, wow, we've really got something here to work on. You know, people, I've, I've, I've followed you for a long time, and there are things that, you know, people look at you and you have kind of an affluent image and all. People don't know that. And I learned one of the things that you and I have in common is we both come from pretty poor backgrounds. Yeah. Both had to work real early in our lives and, and shared some common, difficult experiences early in life of trying to make it and, and get by and find this job and then that job. And when I learned those things about you several years ago, all of a sudden I said, you know, I, I understand how he's gotten where he is because this guy understands hard work and, and putting the time in to get where he's going. And my whole opinion changed when I learned some of those things. And there are things that I disagree with you on. I disagreed with you on some of the things you did concerning Covid and shutting things down and how long and this, that and the other. But I, I, I didn't have questions about your intention, just your, your, your choices. And I always knew this was something I could sit down and talk to you about because I knew that you knew the value of hard work and what families put in and how important it was. And I felt like people don't Take time to find out who they're talking to, what they're and what their values are.

Gavin Newsom (50:17)

And tune in for our continued conversation with Dr. Phil.

Dr. Phil McGraw (50:30)

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Gavin Newsom (50:35)

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Podcast Host (50:38)

And feels like.

Clorox Representative (50:47)

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Homes.com Representative (50:58)

Agent directory you won't find anywhere else. Homes.com is the only place to find the in depth info home shoppers want. Very in depth infinite info. Looking for a listing agent's contact info? We've got it. The agent with the most sales in your price range. Easy specialized agents with all the up to date info on your dream neighborhood. We'll know them. A Pisces who enjoys long walks on the beach. You've got other sites for that. Homes.com We've done your homework.

LifeLock Representative (51:27)

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ShipStation Representative (52:26)

Life in general can be chaotic, and if you're in charge of order fulfillment for an E commerce business, you you know that it's its own special kind of chaos. But with Shipstation, you can count on your day to day remaining calm. With Shipstation, you can ship from all your stores with one login, automate repetitive tasks and easily find the best shipping rates. It's the fastest, most affordable way to ship products to your customers, with discounts up to 88% off UPS, DHL Express and USPS rates, and up to 90% off FedEx rates. Shipstation grows with your business no matter how big it gets, leading your business into the future with smart features and automations that boost efficiency and save you time. There's a reason that over 130,000 companies use ShipStation to grow their e commerce business, and 98% of companies that use ShipStation for a year become customers for life. That track record speaks for itself. Calm the chaos of order fulfillment with ShipStation, the shipping software that delivers. Go to shipstation.com and use code iHeart to sign up for your free trial. That's shipstation.com code iHeart for some of.

Podcast Host (53:34)

Us, personal finances aren't just personal. They include a lot more people than ourselves, loved ones, neighbors, the communities we call home, and the causes we hold in our hearts. At Thrivent, we help plan your financial picture with the bigger picture in mind. Because even though our business is helping guide your finances, our ambition is to make it mean so much more. Thrivent where Money means more Connect with us@thrivent.com. this is an iHeart podcast.