← This is Gavin Newsom
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Host
You're listening to an iHeart podcast.
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Gavin Newsom
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Gavin Newsom
Void where prohibited by law 21 +.
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Host
So good.
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Gavin Newsom
Your bill, ladies.
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Host
I got it. No, I got it.
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Friend
Seriously, I insist. I insisted first.
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You don't be silly.
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Gavin Newsom
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Gavin Newsom
This is Gavin Newsom and this is Senator Amy Klobuchar. First of all, I'm really happy that you're here because I want folks to appreciate Senator Klobuchar. The fact that you are one of the most productive. You're the face of productivity. A politician that not only gets all relative.
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Host
Okay.
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Gavin Newsom
But gets things done. I mean, it is remarkable. You look at so many people in the Senate and you just, you feel like, you know, it's a club and obviously it's, you know, there's a lot of status, but you're often not necessarily affirmed that there's a lot of progress being made, but you are able to lay claim to a lot of progress. Including just yesterday, President Trump signed a bill, the Take It Down Act, a bipartisan bill that you and Ted Cruz co. Sponsored. Tell me more about it.
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Host
So this came out of which I know you're familiar with all this, but just what's going on in the Internet right now where there's no rules and you've got non consensual and AI created porn. And one year, this is FBI stats, there were over 20 suicides of kids they are courting a girlfriend or a boyfriend. They send a photo and then that photo goes all over their schools or there's some kind of threat or asking for money and they think their life is over and they actually take their own lives. So Senator Cruz and I, he is the chair of the Commerce Committee right now. We joined forces and introduced this bill called the Take It Down Act. It simply says the platforms have to take down these images, non consensual images in 48 hours and then creates criminal liability on the people that put them on or extends criminal liability. So we got that through the Senate, but then we were stopped at the end of the year. It was part of a bigger bill. And at the inaugural lunch, as you're aware, Governor, I chaired the inauguration, something I took on before we knew who won. And I brought up to the President and the first lady this bill. And I said, this is a bill that you know, would fit in first lady with some of the work you're doing. And three days later her office called ours and then they, she really helped to get it through the House and it got signed into law.
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Gavin Newsom
So I love that. I mean, and so a couple of things just to reflect on and I want to go back to the inaugural because people were, I think a lot of folks wondering why is Senator Klobuchar kicking off the inaugural festivities? And we'll talk about your unique role in that respect. But how about just the role of bipartisanship, the role you played and the role it sounds like the first lady played, but also Senator Cruz, is it, I mean, is this is an anomalous, is this something to be hopeful about? Is this one off? I mean, what what, what's your sense? Is there. Was there incentives for good behavior? Have you gotten criticized for working on the other side?
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Host
I think, first of all, I've always believed in working with people. You don't always agree with that. Courage isn't just standing by yourself. Courage is whether you're gonna stand next to someone you don't always agree with for the betterment of this country. And I have done that in the Senate working with everyone from Josh Hawley on antitrust issues to Chuck Grassley on biofuels. I mean, you could just go on and. However, I do think the president, this incident aside, where we were able to work on this bill with him, when the rhetoric and the things that are said makes it harder to function bipartisan, because he will go after people if they don't do exactly what he wants. And it's all part of how he's doing this. So, you know, in this case, I guess we got an exception. They like this bill, but I do think it makes it harder. And my goal in life is to do what's best for the country. And as you know, sometimes you take grief when you work with people or take positions that not everyone agrees with. But I do think that we need more of that, not less of it, when it comes to governing right now. So I'm glad the bill got passed into law. I continue to, like most many Americans, you know, wake up every day and think, what did he do now? He just fired the congressional librarian. He's getting these Medicaid cuts, He's moving us backwards on clean energy. All these things that I think that actually gives our country a cutting edge medical research, we should be moving forward. So. But despite all that, I will continue to do what I think's best. And if there's a way to do things from permitting reform on where we can get things moving better, I'm game to working with Republicans.
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Gavin Newsom
Love all that. I want to touch on all those things. But let me go back just a little bit to the origin story on how you were able to sort of smooth this bill over. I love that you said it was at the lunch.
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Host
Yeah.
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Gavin Newsom
And it was just engaging on the personal, where the first lady actually followed up. Took, you took, took very seriously your request to engage a few days later. But let's take us back to that inaugural. I mean, that was, that's an interesting aside, but what was the most striking part of that? You were there. You're the chair of a joint committee, a bipartisan committee in Congress that's related to the Inaugural. Maybe you could talk a little bit about that role. But that role led you to give a little speech, remarks about enduring democracy, et cetera. I'm curious though, what enduring memories do you have around those inaugural facilities?
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Host
Can't reveal it all on your podcast. Have to save some of it. But you know, it started out in the White House and I with everyone, with the President at the time, President Biden and Vice President Harris, and then of course the Vance's and the Trumps, the Speaker of the House, Senator Schumer, you name it. So everyone's there. And then we divide into cars and this is a tradition. And I will still go down in American history as the only person who has ever ridden in a car alone with Donald Trump and Joe Biden for about 20 minutes. One day I'll reveal that conversation. It was quite talkative. I brought up the fires in California.
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Gavin Newsom
Thank you.
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Host
I will say that that was one of my plans to do because I knew that President Trump was going out there and President Biden had been there. So I thought, okay, here's a common ground moment with the firefighters and the like. And we talked about many other things as well. And it was a very vibrant conversation. And then I spent the, the inauguration and the like and it's ends with the ended with that lunch. But I had my four minutes and I decided, I wrote every word myself and I said I want this to meet the test of time because I knew what was coming at us. The assaults on the rule of law, the economic uncertainty. And so what I said were these three things. Number one, our democracy is a hot mess. It always has been. But it's our democracy and you know, we must be as leaders. And I meant every person in their own neighborhood or whatever they do. We've got to be the shelter in the storm and protect that democracy. Now that's a Bob Dylan quote. Gavin, he is from Minnesota and just a little Hollywood moment. I liked A complete unknown. I thought it should have won the Academy Award. I'm going to weigh in on that right now. Okay, but I didn't say that at the inauguration, but I did say that.
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Gavin Newsom
Regrets.
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Host
Regrets, yeah. Secondly, that, that presidential inauguration in other countries it's held in a presidential palace or executive office building. In our country, it's held in the people's house for a reason. And that's because we have three equal branches of government under the Constitution. And all nine justices were there maybe a show of force. They're usually not all there. They all RSVP when it was outside I knew the list and we had the Congress there. And we're still waiting for some of the Republicans in Congress to stand up. We only need four of them to stand up against, say, Medicaid cuts. The third thing and final thing was just that, the power in that rotunda, despite all the billionaires that were in there, it did not come from, in that rotunda, from a freshman member of Congress to the President of the United States. It came from outside of the rotunda and to me. When you see people standing up, yes, activists, people who are angry, but you also see the quiet voices now of farmers, soybean farmers in the middle of Minnesota who show up at a town hall, find themselves seated next to a woman who's holding a sign. I was there, this happened. That says this is not normal. Looks at her, which is a common sign. People are holding now at rallies, Democrats. And he says to her, what do you mean by that? And she said, well, this isn't normal. What's happening? Well, I'm normal. She goes, no, I know you're normal, but this isn't my. The reason I raise that story is the quiet voices, the people that don't usually show up, the fact that they're standing up right now and feel like they must talk to their governor or their senator or their mayor or their Congress member, that matters. And we've got to keep that part of democracy alive and strong.
- [11:56]
Gavin Newsom
I love that. And look, you talk about this notion of co. Equal branches of government, popular sovereignty, the rule of law, the best of the Roman Republic and Greek democracy, the founding fathers vision being tested, the rule of law, this notion of the constitutional crisis that some have attached at least as a tagline to this moment. What's your over under? I mean, where do you think we are? The basis of that speech, this notion of an enduring democracy, has that been vandalized even more acutely than you even imagined 100 plus days ago?
- [12:32]
Host
Yes. And it's not like we didn't expect bad things to happen, given who some of the nominees were for some of the justice jobs, given that we had seen what he'd done before and certainly January 6th. I also was there with President Biden and Roy Blunt when that all happened. The day of January 6th was, you know, Mike Pence and me and Blunt walking down that pathway to the House, walking over broken glass at three in the morning with the last of the electoral ballots, including California's, in that box. So I knew that. And then we were with Biden on the stage. That aside, I didn't predict they would go this far with, you know, just dismantling usaid, dismantling people's hopes and dreams with all kinds of cuts and things they've done on cancer research and the like. Their willingness to even just take on independent bodies like the consumer protection agency, which recalled 150 million bad products and saved Americans from lead poisoning and dangerous pool drains and the like. Just their willingness and the president's willingness to bully people. And whether it's journalists or universities. And then the other flip side of it. Now, I'm going to get to my silver lining here is just that the courts have been standing up over 200 times with judges appointed by Bush and by Trump himself and by Reagan. I didn't even know those judges were still out there, but they are. And they, along with the Democratic appointed judges, have been making courageous decisions. So that is a pushback. So that's why some people say we're in a crisis. I'm just a little more saying, when I look at the Civil War, okay, that was a constitutional crisis. To me, we're starting to be in an economic crisis if this continues. But we are closer to a constitutional crisis. But to me, it hasn't arrived yet because of what the judge is doing, their jobs, the fact that while they are defying the administration is defying some of these rulings for sure, and that is going to be decided in the near future. They are following some of them. They just seem to pick and choose which ones they don't like. So all of that doesn't make it feel better, but it makes it to me like, you just can't give up the fight. It's made a difference. I started the first weekend after that inauguration. I found myself at the Container Store in suburban Minneapolis. And I had this cart, and I had all these, like, Marie Kondo, like, plastic things. Cause I decided I was gonna reorganize my coffees and teas. And this stranger comes up and goes, senator, I know why you're here. And I go, well, it's Saturday morning. I just. I'm gonna organize my kitchen. She goes, no, you' because you feel like your life is out of control in your job in Washington and you're trying to control things you're doing. And I went there two other times. And then I got to work. So the point is, is that we have all been through this. But the answer, when you look at some of these court decisions, when you look at some of the Republicans who've been so timid, but when you look at what they're starting to say on Medicaid that if you give up now, it's the worst. The citizens standing up, calling, emailing, yelling. I mean, it has made a difference. So I just, I and those quiet voice have just as much.
- [15:52]
Gavin Newsom
I love that. And by the way, I've been to the Container Store a few times myself. And perhaps you've just, I thought I was simply organizing. So I think it's a deeper, deeper reason. You may be right. So one thing we can control. Right. Control of controllables. But let me go back. You talked about this. We sort of challenged, and I appreciate your point of view on this, whether or not we're in a constitutional crisis, the issues around rule of law. But you did imply, and you've been very vocal on this, and I'm really grateful you've been one of the leading voices keeping the focus and the attention and not getting distracted on the fundamental issue of these tariffs, which I personally believe he has no legal authority. And of course, California filed a lawsuit along those lines, dozen other states joining that under the International Economic Emergency Powers Act. But the question of the tariffs, it's remarkable to me how, you know, that's, it's, it's still dominant in our lives, but not necessarily in the media in the last week or so. Back to this notion of, you know, I guess we can get to the big beautiful bill, we can get to this notion of distractions, et cetera. But the impacts you've highlighted, the impacts of these tariffs that continue to this day, 30% in China, obviously, tariffs to our big trading partners, north and south in Canada and in Mexico, but impact to small businesses. And you've called it out in your own state and you're seeing a state of anxiety and uncertainty all across the United States. Is that fair, unfair, overstated, understated?
- [17:25]
Host
No. And it is to me, the driving problem right now with the economics. And I want to thank you for bringing that suit and showing such leadership on this front, especially with your major economy, the fourth biggest in the.
- [17:40]
Gavin Newsom
I'm glad you and the world, Senator, I appreciate 4.1 trillion. We love to brag about that. But watch, watch India, they're right behind us. I worry a little we may slip.
- [17:51]
Host
So when you look at the tariffs, we've always had targeted tariffs. I've supported some of these for like with iron ore is mined up in northern Minnesota. And when China does illegal steel dumping, it's a huge problem. And this was something Barack Obama put in. Trump continued in the first administration, Biden continued. But now he has put this into across the board tariffs involving some of our closest allies, our closest allies in the world in Minnesota. You know, we can see Canada from our porch, like they are our biggest trading partner. They eclipse the next few together. And this is very damaging for building materials, for homes, for you. Look at some of the fertilizer and things like that. Our soybean market in China is huge. And while he reduced those tariffs, they're still at an inordinately high level as opposed to using the clout of the United States of America, this incredible economy, to negotiate more targeted things. And that is not how he's done things. And he's pushing China more into the arms of Russia. And then China is advertising, you've probably seen their ad in English to other countries say, hey, do business with us. Because we have decided to put these tariffs on countries like South Korea and Japan and Europe. All of who've been major, major partners for us in, yes, in the economy, but also in security. So the effect, small business owner, place called Busy Baby. My husband thought it was Lazy Baby. I know it's Busy Baby, Busy Baby. She started this Entrepreneur of the Year, honored by Trump's Small Business Administration.
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Gavin Newsom
Can't make it up and she can't.
- [19:33]
Host
Do her business with these tariffs. She doesn't have the phone number of the White House. She's not like a major CEO that can waltz in there and say, hey, can we get an exemption for our products? More power to them, okay. But she doesn't have the ability. She's not invited by the Treasury Secretary to JP Morgan to go into the meeting in New York City. She doesn't know what's going to happen. So it also creates an inequity in the economy where these small businesses that have been just incredibly important to the next big development. I look in Minnesota, Target started as a dry goods store and you know, 3M started up in this little place in Duluth. I mean, these companies start small a lot of the time and then the small. We're just messing around with capitalism is what he's doing. He's trying to do like a controlled economy from the White House instead of allowing capitalism to unleash the kind of new ideas that we've seen.
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- [21:41]
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- [24:09]
Host
So good.
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Gavin Newsom
Your bill, ladies.
- [24:11]
Host
I got it. No, I got it.
- [24:14]
Friend
Seriously, I insist. I insisted first.
- [24:16]
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- [24:17]
Host
You don't be silly.
- [24:19]
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- [24:25]
Host
Okay. Rock, paper, scissors for it. Rock, paper, scissors. Shoot.
- [24:29]
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- [24:40]
Gavin Newsom
Senator, you know what's most insidious? And I love that you brought her up. We had the opportunity to visit with her on the podcast and she talked about how she was inspired by her newborn and now she has to look them in the eye and say, honey, we may not only lose the business, we may lose our home. Because she's leveraged her home in the mortgage to get a line of credit because she just made a deal with you, referenced Target and Walmart, to expand the business. And now her house is on the line, not just her business, in her future. And looking her kid in the eyes and having him tell them that. It's so important to highlight those stories and to highlight that example.
- [25:24]
Host
It's like the roadkill in this thing because the bigger companies I'm also concerned about, honestly, they're a big part of our economy. We have in Minnesota, like 15, 16 Fortune 500 companies, and a lot of them do work overseas and a lot of ag companies and the like. But these little companies are just going to be roadkill because they don't have the margins, as you just pointed out about this woman leveraging her home. Or as I mentioned, the soybean farmer, they already lost a bunch of their market to Brazil during the Last Trump tariffs, and now they've gone down to like 20% of that total soybean market in China, and now they're gonna go even less. So I just. He inherited an economy that we know there was inflation. We should never embrace the status quo. There's so much more we need to do. I mentioned permitting housing, childcare, all these things, but he's now just dragging us the other way. I mean, costs are up, chaos is up, corruption is up, and sadly, your 401ks are down and the economy's down. And this is just small businesses. I've lost 300,000 employees since the beginning of the year. This is just not the direction we should be going.
- [26:36]
Gavin Newsom
No, I appreciate that. And we, I mean, it's been said over and over again of, you know, headlines and the Economist headlines in the Wall Street Journal, the envy of the world, the United States. America's economy, despite inflation, was beginning to cool. The economic output growth, productivity, unemployment for women, African Americans, lowest unemployment in 60 years. And as you suggest, the economy now contracting 0.3% in Q1. But I think the most interesting thing, and Senator, I'm curious, your take on it, is this whole notion on the tariffs. The predicate on the tariffs was small businesses don't pay, we don't pay, Walmart doesn't pay. And then out of nowhere, Trump this week says, wait, hold on, eat the tariffs, he says to Walmart, which suggests perhaps someone does pay on the other side of the border. Consumers and, or businesses, which is it?
- [27:30]
Host
So it is both. But $3,000 a family annually is going to be a tariff tax. A tariff tax, $3,000 strollers, 25% have gone up. So it's like a baby tax. But if you have a baby. But it's also a family tax. And so everyone's got to realize what's going on here, that consumers will pay, but our businesses will pay as well. And it just sets us back in the rest of the international economy. We should be building alliances. We should be the, the, the security alliances that we built around standing up for democracy. In Ukraine, we like woke up from this slumber. Our, I think our country did, woke up from the pandemic, said, wait a minute, we gotta get more secure relationships with some of these other countries. And that also means economic relationships. And he's just taking us backwards. Hopefully not in Ukraine. I hope that some peace will come out of this, that will work for Ukraine, but he's certainly taking us back economically. And so. And the one other point you raised, Governor, was just this destruction thing. And it's so hard when you hear this because he does some really bad things, I believe so that no one will focus on the other things like bright shiny object. About a week ago or so on a Friday, Stephen Miller brought up who works for Trump in the White House, brought up habeas corpus. And so I happen to be on a Sunday show after that. So he brings up habeas corpus and the president has no power under the Constitution to take away people's rights to contest detention. Okay, but he brings this up. He knows that. So then I'm on that Sunday show. So what do I get asked on Meet the Press? I get asked about habeas cork. And I finally was able to say what I've always wanted to say, which is he knows very well the president can't do that under the Constitution. And Senator Barrasso, who'd been on before me on the same show, had said it's not on their agenda. Well, it's not. They're not going to spend weeks on this and it's not going to pass anyway with many conservative commentators are against this. So I said he brought it up so you'd ask me about it right now instead of asking me about tariffs. And I think that's a lot of what they do. And as people who care about our rights in the world, we have to take stands and make clear where we stand on this. But we cannot let people get fooled by them into spending their time screaming at the TV and they can't even hear you anyway or screaming at a podcast about things that when what really matters right now is that their budget, which we still have to get to, is going to take 13.7 million people off of Medicaid and their health care or it's going to raise the costs for 20 million or that these tariffs are going to mess up our entire economy and the way we do business around the world and send us pell mell down. And I just think those points is what matters the most to people and what we I just judge from this crazy place I work in has the most chance of getting Republicans to say wait a minute because we already saw them do it on Canada. Two senators bordering Canada, Murkowski and Collins, and then the two in Kentucky would never agree on anything. McConnell and Rand Paul agreed with Tim Kaine and me that there was no emergency at the Canadian border and maybe they did it because of Kentucky bourbon, but I don't really care why I appreciate.
- [30:58]
Gavin Newsom
So let's contextualize. You talk about Our kids. You talk about this tax cut, a tax increase, excuse me, with the tariffs, which are nothing more than a tax increase on in a regressive tax that hurts low income and, and working and middle income Americans more than anyone else, but also attacks generationally as it relates to attacking working families in particular in the next generation. But we have this build back, better, beautiful, whatever the heck they're calling it, the big beautiful bill. Trump is on the Hill. Trump was just, you may have seen him walk in the halls just seconds ago, Senator. He's out there and he was just out there on press conference saying that, you know, do not and dare I say I'll say it. He says he's don't quote unquote around with Medicaid. Meaning he completely denies what you just suggested, that 13.7 million people may lose their Medicaid. You suggest, Democrats are suggesting that's not the case.
- [31:57]
Host
So this bill is truly a betrayal of the middle class. There are so many things he could have done right. He could have increased taxes on billionaires and the biggest corporations. Even you do a one point every 10 years brings in $150 billion on corporate taxes. And he could have gotten us to like a middle ground on that. He didn't do any of that. Instead they added more tax cuts for the wealthiest and then to pay for it. That's why we call it the billionaire budget to pay for it. This is what they're looking at. 13.7 million people off Medicaid. He may have said that in that session to them, but they just are voting out of the committee on a budget that there is no other way in according to the Congressional Budget Office that you can get to that point with where their cuts are.
- [32:48]
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- [33:19]
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Host
So good.
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I got it. No, I got it.
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Silly.
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Okay. Rock, paper, scissors for it. Rock, paper, scissors. Shoot. No.
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- [36:17]
Gavin Newsom
Center, just on that point because I think it's so important. And I bring that up because it's so infuriating. It's so in Orwellian, it's such an extraordinary statement. I mean, three point we estimate just to put in perspective in California and we're going to sort of put out detailed plans or detailed analysis on this tomorrow. But 3.4 million folks will be impacted through our Medi Cal, our Medicaid, just in California alone. The impacts across the spectrum from issues around Planned Parenthood, the impacts on our hospitals, not just rural hospitals, but hospital fees, what we refer to as this MCO tax, all of these other components that they have promoted and are poised to now approve. The devastation is actually outsized, profound and extraordinary. It will also increase the national debt by a minimum of $3.3 trillion. Talk about saddling the next generation. So we do tax cuts to people literally who not are even asking for it. Multi billionaires, centennial billionaires, not just wealthy corporations that rarely even pay that minimum tax. But tell me sanity is being taxed right now. What the hell do we do? What is the Senate going to do? How can you stop this? And how do we focus again, to your point, on not getting distracted by these intentional distractions?
- [37:44]
Host
So we need to fight this in every way. And I think that we one, it has to pass the House. We'll see. They have fights with their hardliners on exactly what you raised for good reasons on the debt. And then it's, by the way, it's not just the health care cuts, it's the snap cuts. They want to put that over on your budget and on Minnesota's budget. I saw that depending on how they do it, if they're at 10% or wherever they are on the cuts over to state budget, Texas alone would be like $500 million. And 40 of the 50 states have balanced budgets amendments. So they can't even add this while grocery prices are going up, energy prices up, all of these things. So that's what they're looking at to pay for these billionaire taxes. So if they pass this, which they're still very unclear, but if they do this on a party line, Republican vote in the House, comes over to the senate. You need 51 votes in the Senate. And the senators have been very different on this. Some of the Republicans, first of all, they're not going to get every single one. But then you have people like Grassley, I know he's in his 90s, but he said just in the hallway yesterday, I love this. We Need a redo. Need a redo. That's his nice Midwestern way of saying, no, they're not going to accept this as the way it is. I think he was referring to the $300 billion in these snap cuts and some of the other things the Senate Republicans had suggested, 1 billion in cuts. So there's going to be a lot of this, and this is going to be the moment, I would hope, because Democrats are going to be united against this thing, and we will be doing everything to force votes and push them on it. But it is a time where people are going to stand up because he is really focused on this. And there's a bunch of Republicans in the Senate, including Josh Hawley of all things, who have basically said on Medicaid, I'm not gonna do this. We're not gonna do these kinds of cuts as of other. And all it takes is four of them, by the way, four of them to stand up in the House against this. So when people get mad, I don't blame them, they get mad about things and how they are, and they're mad at Democrats. They gotta look at this. It takes only four of them in the House and four of them in the Senate. If only three of them stand up, then good old J.D. vance can come over and break the tie. But if four of them stand up, then they can't pass it. And so that is. That's what the numbers are in the Senate and in the House.
- [40:07]
Gavin Newsom
So, and I, look, I appreciate that. The point you're making, that we still have agency, we're not bystanders as it relates to this, and we could still shape the future. But that said, we heard over and over and over again today, yesterday, this last week, failure for these guys is not an option. And of course, Trump showing up today on the Hill, making that point only reinforces symbolically and substantively what's at stake for the speaker and ultimately will be at stake for this country. But what, what I mean, this notion of waste, fraud and abuse, this idea that you're not cutting 13.7 million people off of Medicaid, that you're just asking them to work, Senator, you're just asking them to reapply every six months, not every year. It's hardly draconian. And it really is about waste, fraud and abuse. How do you counter that narrative? How do we counter that message, that talking point coming from these folks?
- [41:08]
Host
So we're happy to work with them on actual waste, fraud and abuse. Always have. I'm always into looking at reforms and what we can do better. But when you look at Medicaid, half of the people in nursing homes are on Medicaid. Okay. You've got this population tends to be. The vast majority of them are kids, they're people with disabilities, they're veterans. Right. And they're seniors, older people. So you've got to look at the population you're dealing with for both the SNAP programs and Medicaid in terms of what you're talking about, when you talk about making it harder to apply or creating more red tape and the like. So this is, I think Trump has some notion that this isn't very popular. That's why he keeps saying he doesn't want to cut Medicaid. I think that should be the proof point that maybe their argument isn't working. The other proof point, by the way, when it comes to economics here, is only 37%. That is very close to the Maga base. Only 37%. People think he's handling the economy well. A number that I'm hot off the press sharing with our caucus today is that when people are asked, well, what do you think we should do to make the budget better balance, you know, get to a better thing with the deficit. Only 14% of them said cut health care and cut Nutrition, those things, 68% said tax the billionaires and the wealthiest more in order to make sure that people aren't hurt by this. So I think they're in a very bad place here. And you've got the midterms coming around the corner. You've got. They know this. This is why you starting to see some of the Republicans stand up. I'm not being a Pollyanna. I'm just looking at the map. I'm looking at the numbers. And so the key is that despite the despair of what he tries to make people just feel like nothing is good when they look at politics. Despite all that, you've got to look at some of the things that are going on in the States, like your lawsuit on the terrorists. You got to look at the fact that people of our country are going to work every day, working hard despite all this, and looking out for each other and looking out for their neighbors, that this is still happening in America, no matter what he says or what he does every morning or what he posts on social media, and that we as a country have to keep standing up to this because it's either some of it's worked in court, so we fight it in the courts, we fight it in Congress, and this is going to be the Big test. Are those four Republicans going to stand up and we're going to make them vote on a bunch of stuff in the meantime. And then the third thing is our constituents. And that's just my point, plea to everyone that you've engaged so many people with this podcast. It's incredible that they remember that.
- [43:51]
Gavin Newsom
I appreciate and, and I also just appreciate the, the essential nature of this moment. Just focusing on, on this tax bill and focusing on the tariffs and doing our best over the course of the next few weeks.
- [44:03]
Host
Talking about the fact that the Timberwells beat the Lakers and the Golden State.
- [44:09]
Gavin Newsom
You had to do that. Really, you had to into that.
- [44:12]
Host
I mean, there wasn't much time left, but I thought I might, might raise that.
- [44:16]
Gavin Newsom
We made it almost through an entire podcast without that. I mean, I won't even bring up the last years positive.
- [44:24]
Host
And then I thought I'd end.
- [44:27]
Gavin Newsom
So just let me briefly, in the.
- [44:29]
Host
Spirit, go back to this. But for us, it's very serious. I know our journey continues.
- [44:36]
Gavin Newsom
I got two kids that are still in bed. They have not recovered. So I understand, trust me, how serious this stuff is. I also understand how serious these, the anxiety. And I just want to get to three quick topics with you.
- [44:50]
Host
Okay, good.
- [44:51]
Gavin Newsom
And I'll just jump right in. Where the hell is Elon Musk? What happened to him? What's your assessment of everything that has happened the last few weeks? Fire and fury signifying something. Nothing.
- [45:03]
Host
Doge trying to get Tesla back on track and doing his job. I just was just the way I was in Wisconsin, by the way, on that Supreme Court situation there. And you know, not with him with the cheese head. But I was there and I just saw how people reacted to that. And they care about their own state and their own judicial system. They don't like that this billionaire is coming over to Green Bay. And I think that the way he handled that. There are ways, and you know this, to make changes in state or federal government, you've got to look at agencies just like any business person would do what things, what line of business isn't working, what do I want to change? How do I want to do it? And boy, I want to keep some of my new vigorous employees instead of firing everyone that's just been there less than two years. That may be the dumbest thing. And I want to keep veterinarians at usda. I want to keep cancer researchers. I don't want to turn off all these great employees. They are the key to this, of making all this work so we can, can get Medical devices approved and the way they handled everything was just this slash and burn approach which then turns off other people that they didn't even fire. That makes them want to leave. And pretty soon who's going to be looking at the electric grid? So this is going to affect the economy with how he's handled this. There are things that they could do and can do to look at this in a rational way. And that's what I think why he became just such a burden on everything because of the way he went up, not necessarily the idea of reform. People don't want to own the status quo. They want to see changes to the government. It's just how he did it and how he mocked these people, many of whom have devoted their lives to doing work that not everyone wants to go out and fight fires all the time. Right. Not everyone is putting themselves in the line or looking at this, doing the kind of research that you need. They're not going to sit in a lab all day. But there are some devoted Americans that do that every day. And he's making them want to go work somewhere else. So I think that's what happened and that's why he's back and hopefully gets Tesla back on track.
- [47:10]
Gavin Newsom
Yeah, no. And as someone that's invested as a taxpayer, not just as an elected official supporting the growth of the alternative vehicle industry, I appreciate the sentiments about Tesla because of the energy and entrepreneurialism that defines that company, or at least has in the past and our ability to compete for the future. You make a point about the issue of SNAP and the cuts to food and food security, by the way. Trump made another Orwellian comment today in his press conference around the food cuts, around the SNAP cuts, saying it will actually lower the cost of food. Only Trump could actually assert that as he went on to say something about the cost of eggs. But also there's a part of the three legged stool of what they're also assaulted we didn't bring up, which is on the green energy side and the fact that we will quite literally. You talk about the future and I appreciate you brought it up center four or five times. Wasn't lost on me. You talked about that formula for success. You talked about the research and development. You talked about, you know, the foundations of what make this country great and how we built the world's largest middle class. It's because we had a formula for success and academic freedom and investments in science and health and discovery and entrepreneurialism, the ability to get the first round draft choices around the rest of the world, the best and the brightest to come to America, and rules for risk taking, but not recklessness. You talk about the importance of permitting reform in addressing aspects of what Ezra Klein has referred to as the abundance agenda, which I completely embrace. And Democrats, we need to own that and we need to own up to our own performance. But I want to just briefly talk about something, if I may, Senator, that is very personal to you and personal to all of us, but more personal to you because I've been struck by your own history with your family, your own personal health, obviously, now President Biden's health, and it's so topical this week. I saw you on the Sunday shows. And I don't want to necessarily get to the past per se. We're going to have plenty of time. And on this podcast, we'll talk a lot more about the past, but in relationship to the present and the future, just your relationship with President Biden and his relationship to this moment as it relates to this advanced prostate cancer.
- [49:34]
Host
Right, Exactly. So when you think about it, was the cancer moonshot when you go back to Biden after he lost his son, who I know you knew, and him, and it was something that, of course, changed his whole life. And I was there when President Obama signed that bill because I had some things in there on eating disorders, other things that we'd passed that we got in that bill, and also some of the work on cancer. And I remember President Biden, who was vice president at the time, standing by Obama's side when he signed that bill into law, that research at NIH and the like has continued with bipartisan support for 11 years in a row, increasing research. And now, as you know, a lot of the works in your state, some of it's in mind with the Mayo Clinic and the University of Minnesota, and just kind of the incredible moment we're at. We've mapped the human genome. Now we're moving into personalized medicine. And the use of AI, if harnessed and put the right rules in place, is going to take our country to this level of leadership. But to do it, you need, yes, some rules in place. And when Elon Musk says that there should be some rules on AI, maybe we should listen to them. Secondly, and Congress needs to act secondly, we need to keep supporting this research and the fact that these attacks on these universities, and I'm so glad they're joining forces now, because that's one thing all people who listen to your podcasts have got to think about when you join forces and you're not Alone being attacked. It's worked better for journalists, for law firms, you name it. So that idea that we could continue this research at this moment and continue to get in the workers that can do the research with legal immigration reform and the like to augment the people we have here, that to me is our golden moment into a California sunshine thing where we can really go to this next level of our economy. And that's one of the saddest things about what's going on when I've heard in your own state and in mine about research projects that could be brought to places like Australia because they just, they don't know if they're going to have the certainty of doing them here right at this moment, where this technology and know how is reaching this pinnacle, where America has kind of our next great breakthroughs with rare diseases which we never thought were possible to solve. And in my case, yes, the breast cancer that gets like they detect it. You have a simple lumpectomy, you've got radiation in five days and you don't miss a vote and you literally get back on a commercial flight or back for that vote and never miss anything. I don't say that's perfect for most people, but what I say is that these advancements has allowed our economy to function and been a leader and we don't want to move back on that. And I know that was something President Biden cared about. I know it's something you're devoted to, but the point is, is that Trump, we still could go in the right direction, but he's got to stop this assault on the things that are literally the innovation that's key to America's economy. We want to be a country that makes stuff, invents things and exports to the world.
- [52:50]
Gavin Newsom
Senator, just in closing, do you, you know, and I appreciate, I think, you know, this notion of an economic vision, a journey that everyone can be on together and they see, they feel seen and included in that is critical for the Democrats and our comeback. And not just as it relates to the midterms, but even beyond. Where are you on sort of this spectrum of reflecting on where our party is, where was, where we are today and where we're going and just sort of three or four things that you think we should be doing more of right now in order to get back where I think the American people, the majority of them, I believe, want us to be.
- [53:33]
Host
Yeah. I think we can't be stuck in the status quo of the past. And just because Trump is going on this all out assault doesn't mean that our answer is no. We like everything the way it was. That's not where the American people are. That's not where we should be. So that's the first thing. In addition to focusing on the economic mistakes he's making and the assault on people's basically their right to pursue opportunities by making it harder and harder for them and small businesses, we have got to have our own agenda. That's first thing. The second thing is we shouldn't just go where it's comfortable. We should go where it's uncomfortable. I visit all 87 counties in my city state every single year. Just came back from a 19 county tour in rural Minnesota and go to other parts of the country as well that are more rural. I just think listening to people because they're on the first line, that's getting attacked by these tariffs and the like and making sure that we have an agenda that works for them. The third thing, bring down costs. Bring down costs. Bring down costs. That's going to mean more housing and getting through some of this permitting muck. And that's part of the whole abundance, Ezra Klein agenda. Childcare. There's incredible public private partnerships that we could engage in. Bringing down health care costs, being willing to look at that in a different way, take on these pharmaceutical prices. I've led that bill. And then just remembering that there's more that unites us, that divides us, and trying through all of this muck to remember these hardworking Americans. And you sure saw it with your firefighters and their grit and with all the people in your state. And we see it all over the country to have that motivate us every day. And that way you kind of make what he's doing small because you're going to be bigger than that. And speaking of which, I have to go to our Democratic lunch. I bet you wish you could take the podcast in there, but they all.
- [55:29]
Gavin Newsom
Have to say, we're getting a little town hall. I love it.
- [55:32]
Host
A little. Oh, yeah, people have.
- [55:36]
Gavin Newsom
Well, we wish you all the luck in this remarkable moment, but I'm grateful you took these moments to share your thoughts, your wisdom, your insight. And congratulations again on getting that bill to the president's desk. And sign and thank you for all you do for all of us every single day in ways seen and unseen. Senator Klobuchar, thanks for joining us.
- [55:56]
Host
Thanks. It was great being on. Thank you.
- [55:58]
Gavin Newsom
Thank you.
- [56:07]
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- [56:39]
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Look, we got one play. Everything we work for comes down to this. Quick question. Speaking of workouts, how would you rate your athletic program?
- [56:46]
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Bro?
- [56:47]
Homes.com Ad
Win in the middle of the state championship? Oh, so like a B then?
- [56:50]
Gavin Newsom
Dude, get out of our huddle.
- [56:51]
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- [57:01]
Host
How'd he even get in here?
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Holmes.com we've done your homework.
- [57:07]
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- [58:02]
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- [58:36]
Host
Clorox Sandiva smells like lavender.
- [58:41]
Gavin Newsom
Cleans like Clorox.
- [58:44]
Homes.com Ad
And feels like hmm.
- [58:52]
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- [58:58]
Host
Available in Clorox Scentiva Lavender scented Bleach.
- [59:01]
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Use as directed.
- [59:03]
Host
You're listening to an I Heart podcast.