And, This Is How We Were Really Raised with Gavin's Sister Hilary

Summary

Podcast Summary

Podcast: This is Gavin Newsom

Host: Gavin Newsom
Guest: Hilary Newsom (Gavin’s sister)
Episode: "And, This Is How We Were Really Raised with Gavin’s Sister Hilary"
Release Date: March 14, 2026

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Episode Overview

In this candid, often playful episode, Governor Gavin Newsom sits down with his sister Hilary for a deeply personal conversation about their upbringing, their parents, family lore, and the stories behind Gavin’s memoir. The siblings swap memories, correct each other's recollections, and unpack the real story behind their family, debunking public perceptions about wealth and privilege while exploring the emotional complexities of their childhood and family relationships.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Growing Up Newsom: Family Myths and Realities

• Challenging Misconceptions: Both siblings are quick to dispel the myth of a lavish, privileged upbringing, revealing instead a narrative of struggle, hustle, and financial uncertainty.
  • “They all think dad left us millions… and if he did, where is my money?” – Gavin, [00:08]
  • “Mom legitimately passed with…I think you got a lease in the car, and I got... Merck stock or something.” – Gavin, [17:21]
• Living Arrangements: The family home was often crowded, with their mom, Tessa, renting out rooms and even her bedroom to pay the rent.
  • “She rented out the garage. She rented out her bedroom…and lived in the living room…” – Gavin, [39:47]

2. Parental Divorce and Dynamics

• Parental Roles: The divorce looms large in their childhood narrative, with their father, Bill Newsom, depicted as a distant figure for much of their early years, and their mother as a hardworking single mom.
  • “So the. What we do write about in the book, what I do write about is the fact that they were separated…Dad was a distant figure in those early years.” – Gavin, [14:11]
• Financial Strain and Emotional Fallout: Their mother left due to their father’s mounting political and financial failures, seeking advice not to be tethered to his debt.
  • “She told me…the only reason she divorced him…was because he had financial problems after his two failed political campaigns.” – Hilary, [15:39]

3. Funny Family Anecdotes and Sibling Dynamics

• The Otter Named Potter: Their family’s pet otter, Potter, features in both Gavin’s memoir and their reminiscences, showing quirky family moments and the siblings’ banter.
  • “Did you remember the otter in the book? I write about Potter the otter.” – Gavin, [05:11]
• Sibling Teasing and Corrections: The episode is peppered with good-natured ribbing, from calling out errors in the book (like Hilary’s bedwetting age) to memories of Gavin paying Hilary a dollar to stay away from him in the school yard.
  • “You said 13…It was right before my 13th birthday.” (Hilary correcting Gavin, with much laughter) – [21:10]
  • “You gave me a dollar every time I came up to you in the schoolyard to get away from you. I was wealthy.” – Hilary, [31:11]

4. Childhood Hardship, Jobs, and Hustle

• Working Since Young Ages: Both siblings worked from a young age, delivering newspapers, working at movie theaters or restaurants, and helping the family scrape by.
  • “We always had jobs. My mom was working…two, three jobs literally all the time.” – Gavin, [40:43]
• Resourcefulness and Sharing: The conversation highlights resourceful, sometimes comical moments, such as bringing a full grocery bag to school because their dad didn’t realize lunch needed to be assembled.
  • “It didn’t occur to him that he had to assemble it.” – Hilary, [13:43]

5. Public Perception vs. Reality

• Resentment Over Stereotyping: Both are frustrated with the “silver spoon” label, and stress the family’s hustle and the fact that any financial support was sporadic and hard-earned.
  • “Mom deserved the real story…I’m so sick and tired of this notion that everything was handed [to us].” – Gavin, [69:28]

6. Mental Health and Personal Challenges

• Dyslexia and Academic Struggles: Both siblings discuss their learning difficulties and the impact it had on their self-image.
  • “You struggle with pretty severe dyslexia. I…was just…crushed it academically.” – Gavin, joking, [45:19]
  • “You misrepresented my SAT scores…let’s just make that clear.” – Hilary, [45:31]
• Compassion and Looking Out for Each Other: While poking fun at sibling rivalry and childhood pranks, there’s an undercurrent of protection and affection.
  • “Because you protected me and you made sure nobody [knew about the bedwetting]. That’s the reason it’s in there.” – Hilary, [66:33]

7. The Impact of Loss: Their Parents’ Deaths

• Assisted Suicide and Grief: The emotional heart of the episode comes as they discuss their mother’s struggle with cancer, her assisted suicide (before it was legal), and the way each sibling coped with the loss.
  • “She did an assisted suicide…you and I were in the room with her after the doctor…” – Gavin, [52:51]
  • “She said, ‘My children should not have to endure this.’” – Hilary, [55:19]
• Their Father’s Passing — Moments of Connection: Hilary tells how their father called out for their mother before passing; the appearance of a hawk just after his death is interpreted as a sign.
  • “You looked outside and you saw that hawk…like a peregrine falcon or something…” – Hilary, [57:38]
  • “His obsession with birds was crazy, and it did [appear just then].” – Gavin, [57:56]

8. The Getty Family and Family Relationships

• Inextricable Ties: They revisit their close relationship with the Getty family, who played a formative role in their lives through support, adventures, and emotional safety nets.
  • “And grabs his best friend…She said, you’re mine, Hillary…you always have been. You’re gonna be okay.” – Hilary, on Anne Getty, [61:29]
  • “She truly was family…she always looked out after me.” – Hilary, [64:42]

9. Reflections on the Memoir and Truth-Telling

• Hilary Fact-Checks the Book: The episode’s running joke is Hilary’s fact-checking of Gavin’s memoir, calling out embellishments, correcting details, and offering her version of events.
  • “It’s your opportunity. Call me out…This is the ‘got you’…” – Gavin, [20:18]
• The Book as an Act of Scrutiny and Honesty: Gavin stresses that his memoir isn’t a politician’s book, but an honest reckoning — mistakes, pain, and all.
  • “It's not a politician book…mom deserved the real story.” – Gavin, [69:30]
  • “That, for me, shows integrity. Because that’s not easy to put out all your mistakes.” – Hilary, [73:29]

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On the Family’s Image:
  • “Everyone assumes…we were handed everything. I’m so sick and tired of this notion.” — Gavin, [69:28]
• On Sibling Dynamics:
  • “You gave me a dollar every time I came up to you…in the schoolyard to get away from you.” — Hilary, [31:11]
• On Their Mother's Death:
  • “She said, 'My children should not have to endure this.'” — Hilary, [55:19]
• On Resilience:
  • “You always have my back.” — Hilary, closing the episode, [58:28]
• On Dyslexia and Overcoming Struggles:
  • “I was just at the JFK Library…and a little kid comes up…puts his head down and says, ‘I have dyslexia, too.’…I kneel down and tell him, ‘Don’t give up.’” — Gavin, [72:39]
• On the Otter Potter:
  • “Did you remember the otter in the book? I write about Potter the otter.” — Gavin, [05:11]
  • “No one’s asked me about the otter.” — Gavin, [06:15]

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• Family Wealth Myths Debunked: [00:08], [17:21], [39:47]
• Pet Otter and Family Lore: [05:11]-[07:09]
• Divorce & Parental Memories: [10:00]-[15:39]
• Childhood Jobs & Hustle: [40:43]-[41:52]
• Bedwetting Correction: [21:03]-[21:17], [66:17]-[66:41]
• Sibling Schoolyard Bribery: [31:07]-[31:35]
• Discussion of Mom’s Death & Assisted Suicide: [52:51]-[56:16]
• Loss of their Father & The Hawk: [57:01]-[57:56]
• Getty Family Reflections: [61:14]-[64:53]
• Dyslexia & JFK Library Encounter: [72:20]-[73:07]
• Reflections on Honesty & Memoir: [73:18]-[73:38]

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Tone and Language

The conversation is lively, fast-paced, sometimes chaotic, and full of sibling banter. It alternates between humor, nostalgia, candor, and deeply emotional reflection, offering both warmth and rawness and ensuring their family’s true story is not lost behind public persona or political narrative.

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Summary Takeaways

• This episode paints a far more nuanced and challenging picture of the Newsoms' youth than public myth suggests.
• The siblings’ rapport is simultaneously sharp, affectionate, and revealing, allowing both laughter and moments of vulnerability.
• Family history is messy, and the memoir — as Hilary’s fact-checking makes clear — is a launching pad for deeper truth, not the last word.
• In the end, the episode is both a corrective to media narratives and a tribute to the family’s resilience, love, and perpetual willingness to call each other out with compassion and humor.

Transcript

[Gavin Newsom]

Major correction called out by his sister live on tv.

[Hilary Newsom]

I've never doubted for one second that you always have my back.

[Gavin Newsom]

They all think dad left us millions of dollars and if he did, where is my money?

[Hilary Newsom]

Everyone erupted when they saw you just cheering and Dad's eyes started to water. I got emotional and he said, I get it. This is an iHeart podcast.

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[Hilary Newsom]

Are you kidding me?

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[Bethany Frankel]

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[Gavin Newsom]

This is Gavin Newsom.

[Hilary Newsom]

This is Hilary Newsom. Are you nervous?

[Gavin Newsom]

Am I nervous?

[Hilary Newsom]

Yeah. Are you nervous talking to your sister about your book?

[Gavin Newsom]

Well, what is it?

[Hilary Newsom]

I'm here to fact check.

[Gavin Newsom]

Is it? You're here fact check. What do you think of the COVID of the book, by the way?

[Hilary Newsom]

I, you know, at first.

[Gavin Newsom]

Tell the truth.

[Hilary Newsom]

Okay. I wish it was in color.

[Gavin Newsom]

Wow.

[Hilary Newsom]

Sorry.

[Gavin Newsom]

What's wrong? You don't like sepia tone?

[Hilary Newsom]

I mean, I think I like sepia tone. If I had a Leica camera and was doing some old time.

[Gavin Newsom]

What about the picture? What do you think of the picture?

[Hilary Newsom]

I think the picture is good.

[Gavin Newsom]

That's it. What about the.

[Hilary Newsom]

They had to touch it up a lot.

[Gavin Newsom]

Yeah. Young man in a hurry. What about that?

[Hilary Newsom]

I think I didn't. I think it's brilliant. It's actually, actually brilliant. But it took me a minute to understand the the title and to this

[Gavin Newsom]

interview is going really well so far.

[Hilary Newsom]

I think we're done.

[Gavin Newsom]

I think we're done. Except for the color. It's interesting. We had four color options.

[Hilary Newsom]

Why didn't you show them to me?

[Gavin Newsom]

But they looked, dare I say, slick. I know. It's a word that never has been associated with.

[Hilary Newsom]

Right.

[Gavin Newsom]

You got to say I wasn't sensitive to that. And so they said let's avoid the slick thing and went with the Little sepia tongue.

[Hilary Newsom]

I wish you had shown me the options.

[Gavin Newsom]

No, no, there was no.

[Hilary Newsom]

Maybe we could do a recall of the book.

[Gavin Newsom]

And then I had one with a puppy dog.

[Hilary Newsom]

No, you did.

[Gavin Newsom]

With a horse.

[Hilary Newsom]

Oh, you did.

[Gavin Newsom]

Yeah, we did focus groups, the whole thing.

[Hilary Newsom]

And then little babies that would be

[Gavin Newsom]

so insecure that I ran.

[Hilary Newsom]

Babies are fine, but puppy dog, please. An otter. I would have bought more than a dog.

[Gavin Newsom]

By the way. What did you think? Did you. Did you remember the otter in the book? I write about Potter. The otter. My name. But you. We. It was photographs that. We remember it better, right?

[Hilary Newsom]

No, but. Because we have photos taken away before.

[Gavin Newsom]

Oh, you weren't even around.

[Hilary Newsom]

I was in the belly. He. He nibbled on your toes way too soon.

[Gavin Newsom]

Because I have, like, actual baby photos with the thing with the otter. Yeah, it's a good point. You didn't exist then.

[Hilary Newsom]

No.

[Gavin Newsom]

Interesting.

[Hilary Newsom]

And you talk about me existing then. I was just in my hearts, but I wasn't in a human being. Fully formed human yet.

[Gavin Newsom]

So I write about. Because it's interesting. I did 19. I've done literally 19 podcasts alone on the book.

[Hilary Newsom]

I've listened to all of them.

[Gavin Newsom]

You haven't even read the book. We're going to get to that in a minute. You have not. We're talking about the book and you have not.

[Hilary Newsom]

Halfway through.

[Gavin Newsom]

You're not even halfway through. First of all, you're doing the audio version, which at 4x no.

[Hilary Newsom]

1.2.

[Gavin Newsom]

Whatever.

[Hilary Newsom]

It's better. With your dissenting. No, it's actually nice and smooth.

[Gavin Newsom]

We're gonna get to that. But the otter story, I thought was the most interesting. No one cared about that.

[Hilary Newsom]

I love the otter.

[Gavin Newsom]

No one's asked me about the otter.

[Hilary Newsom]

You know what's strange? On my TikTok feed, I don't have TikTok, but on my Instagram feed now, otters pop up. Yeah, I've never searched.

[Gavin Newsom]

What was the name of our otter?

[Hilary Newsom]

Potter.

[Gavin Newsom]

Well done.

[Hilary Newsom]

And then dad had to literally teach him to swim. Potter didn't know how to swim, and

[Gavin Newsom]

no one believes that. So now you have validated my story. Unless we have both lied to and we're complicit.

[Hilary Newsom]

No, we have black. We have CPF photos to prove.

[Gavin Newsom]

We do have CPF photos of the otter. Remember back in the day when you had, like, a cord and a telephone?

[Hilary Newsom]

Oh, yeah.

[Gavin Newsom]

And the otter would literally jump on the phone to knock the cord off and then carry the cord over to you in the corner and then just hold the cord and you spin It. And then the cord would stretch out. You'd spin it, and then it would start to walk around all dizzy. That was like the otters thing.

[Hilary Newsom]

Well, not having been alive, I'm not.

[Bethany Frankel]

I can't validate.

[Gavin Newsom]

That's right. But there is spinning there. You see this?

[Hilary Newsom]

Dad said that he would leave his keys half dangling out because Potter would come, jump up, grab the keys, hide him in the couch. That was like his routine. Maybe that's why the divorce happened. His focus was on the otter when he got home from work and not on.

[Gavin Newsom]

Well, we'll talk about the divorce and how you created that, how you started those conditions, you know, when I was around. Things are going fine, just me and the otter.

[Hilary Newsom]

Fourteen months later, you ruined it all.

[Gavin Newsom]

Hilary Otter and I were just jamming.

[Hilary Newsom]

You know, don't call him by his.

[Gavin Newsom]

And at one, I remember him so vividly. Thank God they're photos. It is amazing.

[Hilary Newsom]

This is about you being a savant, right?

[Gavin Newsom]

Yes, there is a little bit about that. But one of the things about the otter. Did you know that I was named after Gavin Maxwell, who wrote a book called Ring of Bright Water about river otters? And that is why I included fact. The whole pot of the otter story in the book.

[Hilary Newsom]

I know all about that. I was very clear on that. And your middle name is Christopher because Grandma Jean, I didn't know this, wanted you to be called Christopher as your first name and was gonna nickname you Toff Toph.

[Gavin Newsom]

For what?

[Hilary Newsom]

Like Toffee or Topher. Toph. Topher Toph. I don't know. I'm just telling you what I was told when we were little.

[Gavin Newsom]

This was not in the book.

[Hilary Newsom]

Maybe Topher.

[Gavin Newsom]

Am I interested? Christopher. Was that. That was what they really wanted to call me, Topher. By the way, I was supposed to be William a. Newsom the third or 10th or 60th.

[Hilary Newsom]

Yeah, yeah.

[Gavin Newsom]

Something crazy. They were like Bill Newsome. Bill Newsom. Bill Newsom, Bill Newsome. Gavin.

[Hilary Newsom]

I know. And you were really upset about it for a really long time. And then I remember when you went ran and won for mayor. You remember that? And the newspaper, the Chronicle had in the biggest font you could have right across the front, just the word Gavin.

[Gavin Newsom]

Oh, I like that.

[Hilary Newsom]

That's my point. And I.

[Gavin Newsom]

That's cool. Did you keep that? That's a good little headline.

[Hilary Newsom]

Of course I have it all. I just haven't gotten around to clipping it and putting it in a book for you. But that's. Maybe that's for your 60th, but literally I remember calling you and saying, aren't you glad your name is not William?

[Gavin Newsom]

Because Bill would not have been like

[Public Investing Representative]

Bill

[Gavin Newsom]

are due with the next utility file. Yeah, no. Yeah, it was you.

[Hilary Newsom]

You and you and I.

[Gavin Newsom]

So you're suggesting that that branding has helped build my. That was one of the success.

[Hilary Newsom]

That's it.

[Gavin Newsom]

I could have been called Potter.

[Hilary Newsom]

No, no, they. They already had the Potter.

[Gavin Newsom]

They already had Potter.

[Hilary Newsom]

I think Potter predated you.

[Gavin Newsom]

So when did you force our parents to get divorced? When did you create the conditions where dad and mom started to fight and the stress was so much he took off. Why did you when you came along, what were they. Were they at particular attributes really want to talk about that?

[Hilary Newsom]

I think.

[Gavin Newsom]

Were you crying a lot?

[Hilary Newsom]

I think you were.

[Gavin Newsom]

You may have been crying a lot

[Hilary Newsom]

being jealous of me that you made their life so miserable that they. Dad said, I'm out.

[Gavin Newsom]

I'm out. No, but it is interesting how you came along. I don't know. I just.

[Hilary Newsom]

Wait.

[Gavin Newsom]

I really. That didn't really write about this either, but it's like something that should be explored.

[Hilary Newsom]

I actually have a question for you. What that we can get back to if you want. No, we'll do it now because I don't have the same memories here.

[Gavin Newsom]

Okay. I got the editing capacity on this show. Let's go.

[Hilary Newsom]

What are my royalties here?

[Gavin Newsom]

I'm mentioning, by the way, you already. This is pathetic. That's not.

[Hilary Newsom]

But that. That's our new water.

[Gavin Newsom]

Marketing your own like this is the price of you doing this interview.

[Hilary Newsom]

F. Thank you, Gigi.

[Gavin Newsom]

Wow. Wow. So here we are. Is this when you found out this was televised? Now that you now you brought a

[Hilary Newsom]

product to place me to paint.

[Gavin Newsom]

Isn't that a large glass of vodka? I mean, are you sure it's not.

[Hilary Newsom]

See.

[Gavin Newsom]

Oh, I thought this was vodka.

[Hilary Newsom]

Ambiguity are water.

[Gavin Newsom]

Oh, it's water company.

[Hilary Newsom]

We're bringing it to life in the fall.

[Gavin Newsom]

Oh, so it's a new product.

[Hilary Newsom]

You too can have some legacy mineral water. American mineral water.

[Gavin Newsom]

It's American mineral, obviously. All right, we'll get back to the water and see how much things.

[Hilary Newsom]

How much you get back to things.

[Gavin Newsom]

I didn't even. By the way. I'm not even promoting. I should be putting all my damn. Only thing I'm promoting is Trump's knee pads on my Patriot site. Available on our Patriot site.

[Hilary Newsom]

I thought we would new Trump. I'd get those for Christmas. You didn't wrap those?

[Gavin Newsom]

No. Well, those. Those are the new signature series. The old ones had sold out, just like all our law firms. You know, I got a whole thing. It's law firms and universities. Sold out your mint from corporate leaders. No, but that's in that school. And by the way, come on. The greatest number 24 Willie Mays. And then. Look at those two people. You know that we're going to talk about that photo in a minute, but I want to continue this conversation. Some semblance of order.

[Hilary Newsom]

There's no order. This is chaos. I have to tell you a really great story about dad that you didn't

[Gavin Newsom]

put in the book.

[Hilary Newsom]

And I was disappointed.

[Gavin Newsom]

Wow. Disappointed with the COVID and now not the entire. I'm disappointed you forced them to get divorced. But we. Again, you're not taking any responsibility.

[Hilary Newsom]

You're gonna have to pay for my therapy bills.

[Gavin Newsom]

You could pay for product placement of Legacy, available this fall.

[Hilary Newsom]

American mineral Water.

[Gavin Newsom]

Yes.

[Hilary Newsom]

So I was upset one night, and I said to Mom, I want to go to Dad's house. And he had a pied a terre in the city.

[Gavin Newsom]

Remember?

[Hilary Newsom]

Because he was up in Dallas.

[Gavin Newsom]

Pied a terre.

[Hilary Newsom]

I know. That was a good accent, right?

[Gavin Newsom]

Very, very fancy. You meaning? He had an apartment in San Francisco.

[Hilary Newsom]

Pied a terre.

[Gavin Newsom]

Pied a terre. Who's the elite one in the family? Why do I get that rap?

[Hilary Newsom]

So he had an apartment in the city, and mom, you know, was sort of fed up with me, and it was probably fed up with you, but she dropped us off. And at Dad's apartment, and he had a second or third bedroom, and it wasn't furnished well. And I was kind of depressed.

[Gavin Newsom]

This is the Vallejo street one.

[Hilary Newsom]

No, it was actually.

[Gavin Newsom]

Because there were no three bedrooms in that California street.

[Hilary Newsom]

You remember that?

[Gavin Newsom]

Oh, I do remember. That was an actual more normal apartment.

[Hilary Newsom]

Yeah. And that was.

[Gavin Newsom]

He was supposed to live there more full time, Right? Yeah.

[Hilary Newsom]

Right. And so he. I woke up the next morning. I think you were there, too, but for whatever reason, you didn't need to have a lunch because I guess you were at NDV then. And they probably had a cafe cafeteria. I went to French American Bilingual School, and they didn't. And I said, dad, you gotta buy me lunch. So he took us to Safeway, and he's like, what do you normally get for lunch? And I said, you know, a bologna sandwich. So he buys a loaf of Wonder Bread and a pack of bologna. And I said, with mustard. He buys a jar. And I was. And then I started to see I could get what I needed. I was like, oh, so we have chips, cookies.

[Gavin Newsom]

Ho, ho's Ding Dongs.

[Hilary Newsom]

Apple.

[Gavin Newsom]

Apple, please. Ice cream?

[Hilary Newsom]

Yes. I am literally six or seven. Let's say seven for the sake of arguments. And I show up at school with the grocery bag, and at lunch I take out the grocery bag and I dump all the contents out on the table. And the teacher came over and said, what is this? And I said, my dad bought me lunch. It didn't occur to him that he had to assemble it.

[Gavin Newsom]

It kind of sums up how we were raised by dad. What do you say, boys and girls? Here. Here's a baloney.

[Hilary Newsom]

But, mom, because when I got home, we had groceries for the week.

[Gavin Newsom]

So we had that going. That's a good memory. See, I don't remember those early days because he was kind of. I mean, so the. The. What we do write about in the book, what I do write about is the fact that they did get. They were separated when we were just, you know, a year or two after. And then officially, whatever the legal thing was.

[Hilary Newsom]

Yeah, none of us remember.

[Gavin Newsom]

And so he was a distant figure in those early years. And so for you to even remember, back to your little tout par la francais nonsense. French American bilingual school. Again, Panetta. I mean, again, yeah, that's the newsome right over there that we all should be talking about. But that's interesting. You remember those things. I don't remember any of that stuff. Honestly, I don't remember any of those days.

[Hilary Newsom]

And it's funny because you didn't remember when we did the nut tree drop off and that you would literally grab onto his legs and cry, screaming. And mom, I just saw the heart of the. And he was probably thinking, I gotta get back to the Pfeifer house for dinner in Tahoe city.

[Gavin Newsom]

So this is when we got a little older. And I do write about that on i80. Anyone's from California, you'll know that stretch. My. And our dad is living in Lake Tahoe, which is, you know, three and a half, four and a half hours, depending on traffic. And so they would split in between San Francisco and there to sort of do the drop off with the kids. There was no joint custody. Mom had us full time. That wasn't even a dispute. Dad was like, yeah, we're good.

[Hilary Newsom]

I know. You know that he initially fought for full custody, which is hilarious. But he did, I think, despite her. I think just. And mom always told me she never.

[Gavin Newsom]

Can you imagine that? Think of all the baloney we would. I mean, honestly, I think I'd be £400. No, we would definitely be obese. I would Be. I'd be in my 13th stint of rehab. Yes. Literally.

[Hilary Newsom]

Yeah. Living at Romana's restaurant.

[Gavin Newsom]

I know. Oh, God.

[Hilary Newsom]

No, it's. It's interesting because she told me that the only reason she divorced him because she loved him, wasn't because he was never around, etcetera, but was because he had financial problems after his two failed political campaign campaigns. Exactly. And she didn't want to be tethered to that, and she was sort of given that advice, and that's why she told me she divorced him.

[Gavin Newsom]

Okay. But she never talked about it with me. And I talk about the fact she never talked about the divorce, nor did he talk about the divorce. And the only way I learned about it and wrote about it in the book is I got that this Bancroft Library at UC Berkeley did an interview with dad and his siblings, and there was like. I didn't even. No one told me about this. In fact, Mark Ericks, who helped me write the book, said, oh, it's so. It was a great. I love listening to your dad. I said, listening where?

[Hilary Newsom]

You didn't know about the book?

[Gavin Newsom]

No, no one told the book. Okay. Thank you for sharing.

[Hilary Newsom]

Well, you know what?

[Gavin Newsom]

You never return my phone calls.

[Hilary Newsom]

You don't return my text.

[Gavin Newsom]

Wow. It's a real. That's great. Brother and sister, people. Yeah. Didn't even care to tell your own brother about why our parents never got divorced, but he said he was broke and broken after losing the race for county supervisor, then state senate, and then just had a breakdown and just had to take off.

[Hilary Newsom]

Yeah.

[Gavin Newsom]

And, you know, it sounds like that was it, though Mom, I guess, agreed to it or didn't pursue him because she didn't want to be tethered with no money. She's 20, 19, 20 years old.

[Hilary Newsom]

She didn't want to be tethered to the debt because I guess dad was in debt and she didn't want to be.

[Gavin Newsom]

It's a myth. They all think that dad left us millions of dollars, and if he did, where is my money?

[Hilary Newsom]

I did.

[Gavin Newsom]

Where did you put it?

[Hilary Newsom]

I dig every time. I finally broke into his safe, and it was empty. And I can't. Like, I can't make.

[Gavin Newsom]

No one believes any of this.

[Hilary Newsom]

I know.

[Gavin Newsom]

Everyone just assumes. And we're going to get to why they assume in a minute. And Mom. The same thing. I mean, she legitimately passed with. I think you got a lease in the car, and I got.

[Hilary Newsom]

No, no, no, Mom.

[Gavin Newsom]

Merck stock or something. Yeah, Mom, I got, like, $5,000, which I always kept 5,000 bucks.

[Hilary Newsom]

Yeah, but Mom. Mom left us an apartment because she always believed in. In buying property, which was smart. So she did leave us a nice apartment. Yeah. No, and then I took the car. Sorry, I wanted to mention you did

[Gavin Newsom]

take the car, so. I do remember the car. I didn't even notice it was an old Mercedes. Oh, yeah.

[Hilary Newsom]

It wasn't old.

[Gavin Newsom]

It wasn't that old. I don't know. It was one of those very.

[Hilary Newsom]

Okay, it was not a Gavin.

[Gavin Newsom]

No, it wasn't.

[Hilary Newsom]

It definitely was a Hillary.

[Gavin Newsom]

By the way, it fits for you. The ped A tear, the French school and a Mercedes. Okay, we're really. This is the. Like, this book needs to be edited again. I gotta like, update. So they left and so Mom's. Look, she was 19 when she was pregnant with me and whatever and couple kids on her own. And she came from a huge abundance of wealth. Right. I mean, everybody knows she was quote unquote, according to the My friends at Fox. She was a socialite.

[Hilary Newsom]

I forgot about that.

[Gavin Newsom]

Yes, socialite. A millionaire socialite. I guess she was that an accurate picture of her?

[Hilary Newsom]

She was. Must have been a socialite before she married dad because I don't recall the socially. And I have a really good recall for our childhood.

[Gavin Newsom]

Yeah, she was neither rich nor a socialite.

[Hilary Newsom]

No, none of the above. Very odd sort of upbringing. However, she didn't put any of that on us. I'm. Which I'm super proud of. Like we. We barely heard. I mean, if it wasn't for Cindy, we wouldn't have known any stories.

[Gavin Newsom]

Well, then I write about that. I just write about this sort of. This house of secrets and learning. That's why I call it a memoir of destination discovery. It's not just in men that I go back and I'm like, oh, I didn't know this.

[Hilary Newsom]

Even in our conversation.

[Gavin Newsom]

I didn't know any of this.

[Hilary Newsom]

Is that true, Hillary? Did that really happen? I'm like, it did. It did. I was there. And honestly, it's interesting because mom had a really intellectual family, an incredibly brilliant family, but so much dysfunction and talented. I mean, Grandma Jean.

[Gavin Newsom]

Yeah. I didn't fully appreciate how objectively talented in terms of just all these sort of Stanford professors, doctors, you know, Linus Paulington, doctor friends with Oppenheimer. I know all these stories that we bring to life and. And you're right. This deeply intellectual, which I didn't real. I always assumed it was Dad's side. I know because, you know, he were incredibly. Because mom didn't share any of that. So you wouldn't really know. I mean, she was. She read voraciously, but she wasn't quoting Yates where Dad was like, we are Seamus Heaney every hour. Geez. Not another Seamus Heaney quote. You know, no wonder I didn't read any poetry growing up. Of course I couldn't read. And that's what we're going to get to later.

[Hilary Newsom]

I'm not a great reader either. That's working on the book. It's not.

[Gavin Newsom]

You haven't even. You refused to read it. You're halfway through and you're at 6x my speed of my voice.

[Hilary Newsom]

Yeah, no, I'm planning on reading it. I. I'm excited.

[Gavin Newsom]

Well, I'm glad you prepared for this interview about the book and what was accurate, what was inaccurate in the book. It's your opportunity. Call me out. This is the. Got you. You see, this is why I didn't want to do the beginning of the book tour. I wanted to do the end. So you can then just sort of scrutinize everything I said and say, that's B.S. that's not true. And then tell me, besides you're hating of the COVID what else you hated about the book?

[Hilary Newsom]

I don't use that word. That feels really negative. I just mildly dislike it.

[Gavin Newsom]

Okay, mildly. Just like. Just like it appeared our parents mildly disliked each other, so they got divorced and he went up there and so do you remember? What are this? Besides the bologna sandwich story, do you remember any other, you know, like dad in those first 10 years of our lives?

[Hilary Newsom]

I know you outed me as a bedwetter in the book. You got the. The age wrong. I was not 13. Okay, well, how.

[Gavin Newsom]

What did I say?

[Hilary Newsom]

You said 13.

[Gavin Newsom]

No, but what was it then? Excuse me.

[Take 5 Oil Change Representative]

12.

[Gavin Newsom]

Oh, sorry.

[Hilary Newsom]

Okay. 63 days.

[Gavin Newsom]

Okay. Wow.

[Hilary Newsom]

It was right before my 13th birthday.

[Gavin Newsom]

Okay, forgive me. Just a major correction. Newsom called out by his sister live on tv. Yes.

[Hilary Newsom]

I mean, in and of itself, that's embarrassing. However, I. I did do the following. And this is not. This is not kind. But I didn't know I wasn't being kind at the time. But dad periodically had girlfriends. You remember up in the country when. And I would go to dinner with them, and we got home, I would, you know, at 6, 7 years old, say, oh, I want to sleep with you. To the lady. To the lady.

[Take 5 Oil Change Representative]

Right.

[Gavin Newsom]

God, some stranger.

[Take 5 Oil Change Representative]

Yeah.

[Gavin Newsom]

Like, oh, just to torture him.

[Hilary Newsom]

Yeah.

[Gavin Newsom]

No, I'm like, oh, you would do that?

[Hilary Newsom]

Yeah. Yeah. So dad would go into. Into the other room and I'd get into.

[Gavin Newsom]

Stop dating that dude.

[Hilary Newsom]

And it wasn't like a new day. Like someone that I met three or four times, you know, and. And I'd wet the bed.

[Gavin Newsom]

Oh, God.

[Hilary Newsom]

And I'm sorry, I. That was.

[Gavin Newsom]

You really wanted to share this?

[Hilary Newsom]

I. Can we edit that?

[Gavin Newsom]

No, it's too late. I'm going to add that into the paperback version. I can add it.

[Hilary Newsom]

Can you?

[Gavin Newsom]

And I'll say you were 12 at the time. 13 when this started to occur.

[Hilary Newsom]

No, but I remember that. No, that was like when I was 6 or 7. And I remember that the next day thinking, you know, that didn't go well for dad.

[Gavin Newsom]

That is back to. No wonder they got divorced. Yeah. I mean, how could he handle that if you were doing that earlier?

[Hilary Newsom]

It's not like I was intentional. I just remember those moments. I remember also a lot of time when we were with dad. There was never any normal. You're visiting your dad.

[Bethany Frankel]

It was.

[Hilary Newsom]

We were out at dinners.

[Gavin Newsom]

It was dinners.

[Hilary Newsom]

Rico's or Romano's or North beach, and it was at fundraising.

[Gavin Newsom]

Did you ever have dinner alone with your father? Because someone asked me.

[Hilary Newsom]

Not.

[Gavin Newsom]

And I don't. I don't even remember as an adult.

[Hilary Newsom]

Oh, a million times.

[Gavin Newsom]

You did. Well, because I never did, like, by himself, like, the two of us, really. I don't recall. That was like an awkward thing for him.

[Hilary Newsom]

That's interesting.

[Gavin Newsom]

So he would have you. You guys, I guess, would be able to do that, and then I would be the plus one or something.

[Hilary Newsom]

Yeah, we did a lot. But really only in the very end. Near the end, when he was living with.

[Gavin Newsom]

Maybe. Yeah.

[Hilary Newsom]

And he would. I'd get home from work, he'd say, where do we go today?

[Gavin Newsom]

Because he was always with a cadre of friends. It was always this. And I write a lot about that, and all these guys and Malarkey and Mallon and Groza and what we. You know, these.

[Hilary Newsom]

I was with Mallon and Gordon five days ago at Balboa. I mean.

[Gavin Newsom]

Yeah. So it's like the same old haunts. The same. Yeah. Like the wash bag. Getting a final. Final. You mentioned Romano's restaurant, you mentioned Rico's. All these great north beach restaurant, which is so much part of the book and the lore of old San Francisco. But it was always around restaurants, it was always around friends. It was sort of. I say in the book, I said that, you know, drinking and storytelling go hand in hand and sort of the old Irish construct. And I think my memories of him are, you know, as I got a little older, was you're right. Always in relationship to restaurants, always relationship to dinner.

[Hilary Newsom]

Philanthropy, too.

[Gavin Newsom]

And then to the extent. Then those sort of summer months would come with Friends of the River Environmental Defense Fund. Again, why? We had an otter. He was sort of an intense activist. Environmental activist, environmental justice person. Loved. But he talked about environment not just as CO2 and greenhouse gases. It was mammals. It was species. It was mountain lions.

[Hilary Newsom]

Mountain lions.

[Gavin Newsom]

It was. You know, so it was tangible. It was about polar bears. It was. You know, it was always connecting with something that for us was sort of visceral, including just beautiful scenic rivers. I mean, the Friends of the river board meetings that he used to bring us to, or at least the auctions he brought us to, or memories I have.

[Hilary Newsom]

Yeah, I know. And I. I think it's interesting because I always thought dad never connected with domestic animals, but they did have a dog. Beer bum.

[Gavin Newsom]

Yeah. He was not much into dogs.

[Hilary Newsom]

Was a very.

[Gavin Newsom]

You got. You made me have cats growing up. Pickwick. Was that the name of the cat?

[Hilary Newsom]

But Pickwick was a stray that we just picked up. Pickwick just came in.

[Gavin Newsom]

Wasn't my jam. Pickwick. Now, that's maybe why. And then we had Snoopy, the dog. Snoopy.

[Hilary Newsom]

Snoopy.

[Gavin Newsom]

Can't even make it up.

[Hilary Newsom]

Snoopy didn't. That was a heartbreaker.

[Gavin Newsom]

A cocker spaniel or something.

[Hilary Newsom]

Yes, Springer spaniel.

[Gavin Newsom]

Springers.

[Hilary Newsom]

So he ran out of the house.

[Gavin Newsom]

Oh, Jesus. I didn't write about that. I wrote about Snoopy, but I didn't know what. What happened. No, this is the tragic story.

[Hilary Newsom]

It's a tragic story.

[Gavin Newsom]

Back to the paperback. I'm gonna have to.

[Hilary Newsom]

He ran out of the house. I ran after him, and I said, bad Snoopy. And I, you know, patted him on the nose a little bit. And the mailman came up and said, you shouldn't hit your dog. And I wasn't even hitting. You know, just like a light tap

[Gavin Newsom]

on his nose and the dog.

[Hilary Newsom]

And he put his hand in to pet Snoopy, and Snoopy bit him. Mom got a phone call that night, I remember. And you know how mom answered the phone?

[Gavin Newsom]

Hello?

[Hilary Newsom]

She had the British accent, and she answered the phone, which was so cute. I have no idea where it came from.

[Gavin Newsom]

I write a little bit about that.

[Hilary Newsom]

We knew when dad was on the phone because she's got. Oh, okay. Went from chilling.

[Gavin Newsom]

Oh.

[Hilary Newsom]

But she got a phone call, and the next thing you know, Snoopy was rehoused.

[Gavin Newsom]

Rehoused? Is that what he called it back then?

[Hilary Newsom]

That's what mom said. Oh, there's A family that wants to adopt Snoopy, I think.

[Gavin Newsom]

Were you devastated? I don't remember being devastated by this.

[Hilary Newsom]

I remember being devastated because I was

[Gavin Newsom]

a young man in a hurry. See, I wasn't paying attention.

[Hilary Newsom]

You were busy tearing up our backyard.

[Gavin Newsom]

Yeah.

[Hilary Newsom]

Did I tell you that I saw the house. House the other day?

[Gavin Newsom]

Yeah. The house that we lived in that I describe in the book as one of our. When we moved to Marin in Cor Madera, this sort of smaller house with a red door literally had a white picket fence. Like actual real life picket fence. Yeah.

[Hilary Newsom]

It was like a dream. And I slept in the hallway. And that's all true because it was.

[Gavin Newsom]

It was a two bedroom.

[Hilary Newsom]

It was a two. You got one.

[Gavin Newsom]

I got one.

[Hilary Newsom]

I slept in your hall, of course. Yeah.

[Gavin Newsom]

And mom got one. Which was not always a course because we had a lot of homes where she rented out where she was living in the living room, which we're gonna get to a little bit about how she made ends meet with a father who was broke and broken and didn't necessarily raise us nor financially supported us or her to the degree that she would have liked and maybe even deserved. But.

[Hilary Newsom]

But she wasn't that way. She didn't demand anything. And when dad had any money to speak of, he was good to her. Yeah.

[Gavin Newsom]

He would try to help. He was good to her.

[Hilary Newsom]

Yeah. I remember when on our way home from Dutch Flat, we were driving home and it was Christmas Eve or maybe the day before, and I said to dad, did you get anything for mom for Christmas? I was with Robin. He goes, no. What should I get her? She really wants a car. And not kidding you, we pulled over at the ozmobile.

[Gavin Newsom]

Oh, my God. 197 TVH. That was the worst looking car. Ugliest. Purple.

[Hilary Newsom]

Purple.

[Gavin Newsom]

And it was Oldsmobile.

[Hilary Newsom]

Mom was devastated. I was so.

[Gavin Newsom]

And the license plate, 1, 9, 7.

[Hilary Newsom]

You don't know that.

[Gavin Newsom]

TVH.

[Hilary Newsom]

How do you know that?

[Gavin Newsom]

Because I have a weird memory.

[Hilary Newsom]

That's a weird.

[Gavin Newsom]

And that's part of my little dyslexia. Right. I have these weird things I can't forget. 197-TV- and I helped pick it out.

[Hilary Newsom]

I was like, it just has to be big enough for carpool. So dad picks this monstrosity. Robin drives it back, by the way. We go to Annie and Paul's.

[Greenlight Representative]

We.

[Gavin Newsom]

My aunt and uncle Annie and Paul. Robin's my cousin. And by the way, do you remember the Renault? Because you were so French at the time.

[Hilary Newsom]

Oh, my God.

[Greenlight Representative]

Yeah.

[Hilary Newsom]

The light blue.

[Gavin Newsom]

The light blue. That could not get up the hill. Literally.

[Hilary Newsom]

I think I was missing the engine.

[Gavin Newsom]

You had to go to the far right lane to get up the hill, to get up so you could go down the hill towards San Francisco. It had brakes going from Marin to San Francisco. It literally was going 40 miles an hour. Brand new. Brand new car.

[Hilary Newsom]

A Renault.

[Gavin Newsom]

Yeah. I don't remember that license.

[Hilary Newsom]

Sky blue. I mean, what.

[Gavin Newsom]

Those are her cars, man. This. That we were. We were rolling it back.

[Hilary Newsom]

Mercedes, though. That was the one.

[Gavin Newsom]

Well, that's a problem. Was.

[Hilary Newsom]

Yeah, that was khaki or whatever.

[Gavin Newsom]

Well, you got. That was the end of her life. You guys must have. Yeah. And some windfall you was. She was working for. For me, so I was making more money. That's why she can afford.

[Hilary Newsom]

It was so bizarre.

[Gavin Newsom]

I didn't call her Tessa.

[Hilary Newsom]

You called her Tessa in every meeting. I called her.

[Gavin Newsom]

Can't be in a business meeting.

[Hilary Newsom]

Of course you can.

[Gavin Newsom]

And then get. Hey, Mom. I mean, that ruins the vibe. You got it like a professional operation. No, you and you, mom, help us with the bookkeeping. No, it's like, tessa, why don't you give the report?

[Hilary Newsom]

And I would say, mom. Thank you. It's respect to call her mother.

[Gavin Newsom]

That's a whole nother mom. I was again, young man in a hurry. So I was, you know, we. We. I talk a lot about how effed up I was and just focused on

[Hilary Newsom]

my own God, you know how much pressure that was on me.

[Gavin Newsom]

I mean, really, why are you all complaining about yourself? What was your issue?

[Hilary Newsom]

Having to look for you when I couldn't. When I got home from school in San Francisco on a. On literally on a fence, saying it's. He's gonna do it today. He's gonna hang my brother, buy his underwear from a fence.

[Gavin Newsom]

I had someone say that. You just made that up.

[Hilary Newsom]

This is absolutely true.

[Gavin Newsom]

I mean, literally. So we're on Baltimore street, and there's the bully of Baltimore. I told Trump this. Trump called me again. We have the new Trump Signature series knee pads that are available on our Patriot site. And so Donald Trump calls me right before he federalized. On a serious note, The National Guard 4000 National Guard he federalized sent 700 active duty Marines to Los Angeles. The night before he announced that he was moving with the federalization, he called me, and the first thing he wanted to talk about was, hey, what do you think of New Scum? Yeah, it's a pretty original. He goes, it's pretty good nickname, right? I'm like, what? He goes. And he said, this. It's pretty original. I'm like, I just finished the book. And I'm like, no, it's not original. I wanted to say the book is coming out. And I said this kid in eighth grade. It may have been earlier, this bully of Baltimore called me Newscom. So describe this sixth grade. Sixth grade.

[Hilary Newsom]

Fifth and sixth is when you were.

[Gavin Newsom]

Okay, I gotta. I gotta mend that maybe it was like fifth, sixth.

[Hilary Newsom]

Fifth and sixth is when you were bullied.

[Gavin Newsom]

Okay.

[Hilary Newsom]

Yeah, no, I think by seventh, you know that you used to pay me. This is a true story. So we overlapped in school only for one year ever. You were an eighth grader at Neal Cummings and I was a seventh grader because I moved from the French American back to Marin.

[Gavin Newsom]

Marin School with the rest of us to public school. Just saying.

[Hilary Newsom]

Yes, my two years.

[Gavin Newsom]

Not your elite education.

[Hilary Newsom]

Yes, sir. So you gave me a dollar every time I came up to you in the crowded, you know, schoolyard to get away from you. I was wealthy.

[Gavin Newsom]

It is amazing,

[Hilary Newsom]

by the way. It started to occur to me that if I just went up to you that I was like, whoa, I need to.

[Gavin Newsom]

I need a dollar. Back then I was like making 175 an hour doing paper rooters.

[Hilary Newsom]

Why did you not acknowledge that I did the paper? It was.

[Gavin Newsom]

You're doing paper too? Yeah. You start. You were the, like the OG of it. And then I took it over than you.

[Hilary Newsom]

I mean, do you remember the Thanksgiving?

[Gavin Newsom]

Because again, I hold the divorce against you. I just. I'm animus.

[Hilary Newsom]

Like 16 inches thick. The Thanksgiving paper Thursday.

[Gavin Newsom]

Well, Thursdays. Thursdays. Because they were always the inserts. Yeah, but always Thanksgiving. And you'd have to have four rubber bands.

[Hilary Newsom]

We had to get to Annie's and Paul's house. And we were frantic. I mean, all hands on deck, I think.

[Gavin Newsom]

Do you remember how. Just that black. Your hands were just going. All those things. They were sitting there in a stack right when you got home from school and you had to cut the top off and just rap, rap. Get on that Schwinn bike. I had a pretty sweet sworn, right?

[Hilary Newsom]

It was like, okay, but that's also yellow. Schwinn also needs to be corrected in the book.

[Gavin Newsom]

What?

[Hilary Newsom]

You ma. You got the Schwinn bike for Christmas.

[Gavin Newsom]

Yeah, okay.

[Hilary Newsom]

You said you saved up money pretty flat.

[Gavin Newsom]

I didn't know. I never. Not in the book.

[Hilary Newsom]

Okay, sorry.

[Gavin Newsom]

Especially after you cost me a dollar every day to keep you away from me, humiliate me until you started to.

[Hilary Newsom]

To like all my friends in high school. Then you were like, well, it's good

[Gavin Newsom]

to have a younger sister.

[Hilary Newsom]

I think you went to every one of my proms at Branson. But anyway, with somebody. But no, they.

[Gavin Newsom]

I was not a dater. People think that I was.

[Hilary Newsom]

You were not.

[Gavin Newsom]

No, it's like big time dork people. Like, no one believes this, like, total dork. And you use the word dork. It's in the book. How embarrassed you were around me.

[Hilary Newsom]

You had a briefcase. You didn't have the hair gel down yet. It was just like flat on your head.

[Gavin Newsom]

Still don't have the hair gel.

[Hilary Newsom]

And it wasn't just Pierce Brosnan. It was also Michael Douglas, Gordon Gekko. And you didn't have.

[Gavin Newsom]

Well, that came later.

[Hilary Newsom]

You had the skin to wear.

[Gavin Newsom]

I had no looks of those two guys. The two of the best looking guys in history.

[Hilary Newsom]

And literally, I was rough. And I was dating. Yeah, I was dating someone at your school. And I was like, that's just embarrassing. Who was a soccer star.

[Gavin Newsom]

But you know what? It was that or the Dutch boy, you know, Stridex, you know, for my pimples and the Dutch boy thing. And that was me in high school. People don't. They think, like, you had no.

[Hilary Newsom]

No game in high school.

[Gavin Newsom]

None. You so like legitimate. Except eventually in basketball and baseball.

[Hilary Newsom]

Yeah, that was your.

[Gavin Newsom]

Your moment got me out.

[Hilary Newsom]

Well, that's the reason you didn't get beat up every day. But literally you had like a couple of dates senior year. Okay. With this girl.

[Gavin Newsom]

And was it the basketball player?

[Hilary Newsom]

Talk about plutonic Sandy. I can't remember her name, but Sandy maybe that was.

[Gavin Newsom]

There was not dating. It was embarrassed.

[Hilary Newsom]

So see, you mom went through your room and I don't remember the context of it.

[Gavin Newsom]

Oh, no. Do we have to. What?

[Hilary Newsom]

We have to tell the story.

[Gavin Newsom]

What story? And I don't want moms going through rooms.

[Hilary Newsom]

She opened your mail.

[Gavin Newsom]

That's not.

[Hilary Newsom]

She said, and it says, God, thank you so much for the jade seal.

[Gavin Newsom]

Oh, yeah. Oh, Pam. Her name.

[Hilary Newsom]

Pam. And mom went running to the bookcase and the jade seal was gone.

[Gavin Newsom]

I wanted her to like me, so I stole mom's jade seal, which was

[Hilary Newsom]

probably a gift from dad. See? And you think I caused the divorce.

[Gavin Newsom]

If Pam, if you're out there, we need closure of the family. I'm sorry.

[Hilary Newsom]

This is tough.

[Gavin Newsom]

Yeah, I was kind of pathetic. There was a jade. You remember? It was a jade. Now I remember. And it was a jade elephant. There were two.

[Hilary Newsom]

I've got the elephant and you have the elephant. I have the elephant. But you broke up the pair. How's that feel? You need to sit with that. Okay I've seen and it would sit.

[Gavin Newsom]

That was the extent of my dating in high school.

[Hilary Newsom]

It was God.

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[Gavin Newsom]

And then later you got. But I had that Schwinn yellow bike.

[Hilary Newsom]

No. Okay, so remember about the bike with the banana seat? You got the banana seat and then mom not kidding you, mom painted it red and gave it to me for Christmas the next year.

[Gavin Newsom]

You know we had the Renault. We had your new red bride.

[Hilary Newsom]

Did you know that you had to push up the.

[Gavin Newsom]

We had three roommates.

[Hilary Newsom]

We had Robin, Rachel and Rebecca.

[Gavin Newsom]

Robert, Rachel, Rebecca. Because we're just paying the rent. Mom can't pay the rent. People, Just another thing. Literally hustling. We were renting out. She rented out the garage. She rented out her bedroom.

[Hilary Newsom]

Yep.

[Gavin Newsom]

And is living in this living room cuz again, she has to pay the rent.

[Hilary Newsom]

Yep.

[Gavin Newsom]

For years and years and years.

[Hilary Newsom]

Busy house. Yeah, but it's nothing.

[Gavin Newsom]

And I was working every day. You quit your job as paper girl?

[Hilary Newsom]

Yeah. No, but I worked at the movie theater.

[Gavin Newsom]

Oh, Lark. Lark Movie theater.

[Take 5 Oil Change Representative]

Yeah.

[Hilary Newsom]

You're welcome.

[Gavin Newsom]

You got discounts on popcorn, which was pretty good back.

[Hilary Newsom]

Well. And I don't want to because Lark is now.

[Gavin Newsom]

They still have it. It's a great place.

[Hilary Newsom]

But it's back in the day now they pop their own fresh popcorn. But back in the day, I would find the popcorn up in the room and the corner was nibbled, probably, by

[Gavin Newsom]

the way, because of the rats.

[Hilary Newsom]

And I would ask my manager if I should pour it in. And she's like, you know their cigarette. Yes.

[Greenlight Representative]

I mean.

[Hilary Newsom]

And then you'd come to the movie. I'm like, don't get popcorn today. I don't advise it.

[Gavin Newsom]

We always had jobs. My mom was working because she was working two, three jobs literally all the time. Part time bookkeeper. She'd work for Scott McCall Realty. She did Ramona's restaurant. I started doing busboy at Ramona's Restaurant.

[Hilary Newsom]

That's because I got fucked.

[Bethany Frankel]

Fired.

[Gavin Newsom]

I was gonna ask, did you never work? You did.

[Hilary Newsom]

I worked at Ramona's one.

[Gavin Newsom]

So you responsible for the divorce, the family? You're responsible for my bullying. And you're responsible for my paper.

[Hilary Newsom]

I think we're done with it.

[Gavin Newsom]

Which actually was pretty fly. And. And you got fired. So you were that.

[Hilary Newsom]

I got. I got fired. I got fired for negligence. Maybe I spilled coffee. You know, the old coffee pots, the glass ones. And I.

[Gavin Newsom]

She was a tough boss.

[Hilary Newsom]

Oh, she was.

[Gavin Newsom]

It was a woman, right?

[Hilary Newsom]

Yeah.

[Gavin Newsom]

She just came back.

[Hilary Newsom]

Ramona.

[Gavin Newsom]

No. She was brutal.

[Hilary Newsom]

I remember.

[Gavin Newsom]

But she got me all. I remember working my tail off. Because you had to there. Yeah.

[Hilary Newsom]

Oh, no. She fired me on the spot that night. And the worst part is I had to wait for mom to get off her shift to go home, even though I was fired.

[Gavin Newsom]

The best part of her going home, she'd bring back all those damn burritos.

[Hilary Newsom]

That was why she did it. She did.

[Gavin Newsom]

And enchiladas.

[Hilary Newsom]

The extra 150 bucks a week or whatever it was that she made, it was fried and Saturday night and get

[Gavin Newsom]

a bunch of food.

[Hilary Newsom]

Her day off was Sunday, literally. And she sat in that backyard and she read on her Lounge and loved that we were noisy all around her and just. And we were all around her on ping pong table. You were on your basketball court.

[Gavin Newsom]

Yeah. Interesting. So it was just one day off a week.

[Hilary Newsom]

One day off a week.

[Gavin Newsom]

That's true, isn't it?

[Hilary Newsom]

And worked Wednesday nights as the secretary and then Friday and Saturday nights as the. As a weight. As the waitress.

[Gavin Newsom]

Yeah. And we. It's. It's. It's interesting memory. And you. So people. You know, I. I think we had a debate because I. I was saying how much consumption of macaroni and cheese I had and you said that's not true. You lived on, you know, TV dinners.

[Hilary Newsom]

Yeah. So we had Hungry Man. Pot pie hunger.

[Gavin Newsom]

The pot pie man lived on that.

[Hilary Newsom]

Hungry Man.

[Gavin Newsom]

I mean we got jumbos. I forgot about that. And then the lasagna. Stouffer's Lasagna, of course.

[Hilary Newsom]

But then also another big hit for us was Wheaties and Grape Nuts mixed.

[Gavin Newsom]

No, no, no.

[Hilary Newsom]

Yeah. That was right after.

[Gavin Newsom]

You know. That's such B.S. it was sugar. Then you add the Grape Nuts and then you just sprinkle the Wheaties on top and then stir it up and then you just drink the milk which was just sweet. Oh, come on.

[Hilary Newsom]

So you see that I remember. I don't think that we. I think we were only microwaves and fridge. I don't remember a Mac and cheese.

[Gavin Newsom]

I lived on macadamia. What is your problem? It was. I moved up to the cans. Who do you trust where you had the pre.

[Hilary Newsom]

Whose memory do you trust?

[Gavin Newsom]

Because I didn't like the one you have to mix with the butter until they came out with the ones and they had the aluminum can with it and you just squeeze it out. But you had to open it up. And then I. Man. Right after school. Get that. Get my.

[Hilary Newsom]

I was probably studying then. That's probably why I didn't have the bag.

[Gavin Newsom]

Oh my God. I was the wonder bread. Which is the greatest.

[Hilary Newsom]

You told someone.

[Gavin Newsom]

Wonder bread may be one of the world's. You look back in life and there may be few things that were more meaningful than angel food. Cake. Cake and wonder Bread.

[Hilary Newsom]

I mean, angel food cake is the only cake to be had. Although remember at dad's 50th birthday?

[Gavin Newsom]

No one likes angel food cake. And they don't think that. They think that's elitist too. It's like your French school and your Renault. They don't think it's. It's like you really want to be relatable. Talk about your otter. Yes. Yes.

[Hilary Newsom]

Do you Remember dad's surprise 50th birthday? Which at the time I felt like he was old, right? But he wasn't.

[Gavin Newsom]

That was embarrassing. Like actually embarrassing. How old?

[Hilary Newsom]

I know. And Ann said to me, like, what's your dad's favorite cake? And I said, frosting. And she made him a sheet cake. It was this high.

[Gavin Newsom]

His favorite cake was frosting cut into

[Hilary Newsom]

it and was so happy. It was. It was a surprise party at Gordon's and we had the heck of heck of a time getting him in there.

[Gavin Newsom]

And someone made a book Harold Berliner called the wit and wisdom of William A. Newsome and handed out to everyone. And in the book was all these empty pages.

[Hilary Newsom]

It was blended like the wisdom of

[Gavin Newsom]

our 50 year old old man father. Embarrassing. Embarrassing.

[Hilary Newsom]

I know.

[Gavin Newsom]

And by the way, everyone signed into that. I still have it.

[Hilary Newsom]

You do?

[Gavin Newsom]

Everyone left, signed one of the books and everyone wrote a great note. You know, I have to reread that. I should have read it for the book.

[Hilary Newsom]

You should have read it.

[Gavin Newsom]

That would have been interesting.

[Hilary Newsom]

By the way, I've never seen dads.

[Gavin Newsom]

I never did diary.

[Hilary Newsom]

You've never.

[Gavin Newsom]

It ends this, this, this very poignantly with Brooklyn. And it's one. It's my favorite passage in the book. It's the last paragraph.

[Hilary Newsom]

I love the last paragraph.

[Gavin Newsom]

Isn't it?

[Hilary Newsom]

I cried in the last paragraph. Yeah, you need to read it.

[Gavin Newsom]

No, I won't because you know how much I love reading out loud. Did you. Do you remember when I. Yeah, this is Brooklyn. Oh, I love this last paragraph.

[Take 5 Oil Change Representative]

It's beautiful.

[Gavin Newsom]

And it's opening his diary and then

[Hilary Newsom]

I have read that. I read the last paragraph.

[Gavin Newsom]

Do you remember me reading? Because I crushed it when I was young. You struggle with pretty severe dyslexia. I, however, was just. I just crushed it academically. Yeah. Do you remember? I remember.

[Hilary Newsom]

This is upsetting to me. You. You misrepresented my SAT scores. You told someone that I got like 1300. I got 20 points more than you. I got like 980. Okay, let's just make that clear.

[Gavin Newsom]

I'm actually literally embarrassed for you. No, but like, not even figuratively. Like actually I had a higher. I had a higher. I seriously, literally thought of you much.

[Hilary Newsom]

I went to French school.

[Gavin Newsom]

Enough said right there. That should have given you like an extra 20 points.

[Hilary Newsom]

Sat was not in French. It is in English.

[Gavin Newsom]

Your ability to conjugate verbs or something so relatable. Yeah, because.

[Hilary Newsom]

No, because in French school everything is oral. Like they, they read to you. You hear it.

[Gavin Newsom]

Why Are you so pathetic? You got. You got. You did better than me. But that's embarrassing. How'd you get in. How'd you get in Georgetown then? How'd you get in a fancy school?

[Hilary Newsom]

Because I spoke in French to the.

[Gavin Newsom]

That helps. See, back to the. Yeah. So you did all that stuff and you had better grade grades. You had pretty good grades. You. But you didn't.

[Hilary Newsom]

Your grades weren't as bad as you say. I. I have all your old grades.

[Gavin Newsom]

I have some. I. You sent me those. That shocked me. I know that I was really. I'm like, damn.

[Hilary Newsom]

It wasn't just an A and wood shop. And by the way, actually garbage can know that you made it.

[Gavin Newsom]

Oh, my God, that was good.

[Hilary Newsom]

Seriously. Have it at my house.

[Gavin Newsom]

That was good. That was pretty good.

[Hilary Newsom]

It's still around.

[Gavin Newsom]

I didn't appreciate me as much as now by the. The law of comparison.

[Hilary Newsom]

Help you with your, you know, your ego. Cuz you're so fragile.

[Gavin Newsom]

But I was, you know, I was, you know, I was a little, you know, I was in. I was. I was very insecure and. And, you know, sweaty hands and, you know, the back, you know, I was not.

[Hilary Newsom]

It was the haircut. If you'd had a cooler haircut, you might have.

[Gavin Newsom]

The haircut has been bane of my

[Hilary Newsom]

existence, Jeff and I.

[Gavin Newsom]

It's the whole slick thing. Do you do. I mean, when people talk about they. They say slick, right? They're like, guy's slick. I don't trust that guy.

[Hilary Newsom]

I don't think. No. I think maybe. I don't know. Looks like everybody's. Everybody just says nice things to me about you.

[Gavin Newsom]

Oh, God.

[Hilary Newsom]

I know, but by the way, I took Jeff to the old house the other day. I mentioned. And we went up the hill and I told him the story about how you took mom's four chairs. There was a yellow, a red, blue, and a green. And you taped them all together and you rode the chairs down the hill, but you neglected to realize that the wheels were plastic, so you shattered.

[Gavin Newsom]

Oh, I remember this. Oh, I remember.

[Hilary Newsom]

Toppled over.

[Gavin Newsom]

Yeah.

[Hilary Newsom]

You were all cut up. And mom got home and burst into tears because her chairs were wrong.

[Gavin Newsom]

Yeah. Not her son's face.

[Hilary Newsom]

No.

[Gavin Newsom]

Yeah.

[Hilary Newsom]

Less concerned, clearly.

[Gavin Newsom]

Jesus. That's the way we were when you

[Hilary Newsom]

jumped out of the car when it was rolling.

[Gavin Newsom]

I don't want to talk about that. I didn't put that in the book.

[Hilary Newsom]

I know that was.

[Gavin Newsom]

There were plenty of bad judgments that I did include in the. I didn't need to include that.

[Hilary Newsom]

But I just Remember we got home and mom had bought. Bought licorice, which you was.

[Gavin Newsom]

That. Was that in the VW Bug that I jumped out of the car?

[Hilary Newsom]

Yeah, I think it was.

[Gavin Newsom]

It was a video. She had like. Like a 60s.

[Hilary Newsom]

No, that was Dad's car.

[Gavin Newsom]

Oh, that's right. He had a vw.

[Hilary Newsom]

He taught me how to drive.

[Gavin Newsom]

So we got. Yeah, we got the. The Renault. The. What was it again?

[Hilary Newsom]

The Renault Alliance. Oh, the Odesmobile Omega.

[Gavin Newsom]

Oh, my God.

[Hilary Newsom]

That was tough stuff.

[Gavin Newsom]

That was the purple. Come on. No, it was. It was. What was.

[Hilary Newsom]

Neither of those brands are even around anymore, are they?

[Gavin Newsom]

Not for good reason. I mean. No, off.

[Hilary Newsom]

VW is. I mean, VW is, but Oldsmobile and Renault are not.

[Gavin Newsom]

There's, I think, better Oldsmobiles. Yeah, no, it's just that one was not. That wasn't all that. That was not that. That was when the Japanese were kicking our tail back in the day. Yeah, I think we. We were kicked into gear. We woke up as American automobile manufacturers, but what. I got kind of kicked into gear too. Remember I used to take those classes every couple days after school and it was going to summer things as well, just all that extra. But you didn't pay. You do pay attention to that.

[Hilary Newsom]

No. Yeah, I was super busy.

[Gavin Newsom]

Just too busy.

[Hilary Newsom]

I wasn't being bullied. I was popular.

[Gavin Newsom]

You were popular. You were kind of popular.

[Hilary Newsom]

I wasn't popular. I was. I was. I was friends with everybody. I was friends with everybody.

[Gavin Newsom]

But you did better in school. You had. It was easier for you. It was definitely easier. By the way, dad, back to money. You just reminded me when he had money. So remember, I was paying off the script for my student loans and they're like literally a physical thing and you pay. I remember, remember, I mean, literally still have all this stuff and you pay off. Payoff, payoff. And like my. It was a birthday gift and he paid off like the last 1800 bucks. Like one of the great moments your life. Like, he finally paid off because you're paying a hundred dollars, 125 every month. It's this thing and then they send you a new one. You need vouchers. Yeah, it was vouchers. Literally. It wasn't automatic then. And you just would see this thick thing. You're like, oh, God, I'm never going to end this. So, yeah, it's interesting that he reminded me, dad, when he had a few bucks, he would sort of do that. He would sort of.

[Hilary Newsom]

Well, and at Georgetown, they required me to work on campus if I was on financial aid. So I worked in the library, got all my stuff done, and then went out later. But at Branson, mom told me that I went to. She picked Branson for me because she wanted someone to watch over me, that she knew I was too social. And in a classroom of 10, they'd notice if you're missing. In a classroom of 40 at Redwood, they wouldn't really notice. And so she felt like I was too social. In fact, I have a letter from her that says, I love you so much, and I love that you have so many friends, and I love that you talk to them every night, but maybe apply yourself a little more to school. So, to your point, I wasn't. I mean, it came easier for me, but I didn't.

[Gavin Newsom]

I always saw you as, like, the easy, smart one, but you were the.

[Hilary Newsom]

Let's. Yeah, let's. Let's leave that. Let's leave that.

[Gavin Newsom]

No, I mean, this is, this is interesting. Writing a book comes in. You know, this memoir of discovery is sort of what's in the book was out of the book. So what do you. Since you didn't read the book and you're going to act like you did, what's your favorite chapter? Let's see. Oh, what you think of chapter 14?

[Hilary Newsom]

I liked 14.

[Gavin Newsom]

Yeah, well, it only goes to chapter what? Here is it 11.

[Hilary Newsom]

Epilogue.

[Gavin Newsom]

How many? Well, yeah, it's 11 and epilogue. Well done.

[Hilary Newsom]

I told you, I read the book.

[Gavin Newsom]

Chapter 11.

[Hilary Newsom]

I read the book. I read the book. You know, I read the book.

[Gavin Newsom]

It's pretty well written. Don't you agree? It's beautifully, like, no bs. Like I'm really beautifully how I begin. I'm sitting in an office looking over you. I, I, it's, I like the way it's written. I mean, I, you know, it's not a politician book is what I'm saying.

[Hilary Newsom]

It's beautifully written. And there's moments of real pain.

[Gavin Newsom]

Yeah.

[Hilary Newsom]

There's moments of real heartbreak. There's moments where I wanted to fast forward it.

[Gavin Newsom]

Yeah, you were freaked out. Or maybe the fire.

[Hilary Newsom]

I read it in fear.

[Gavin Newsom]

You were not happy about the stuff I put in this.

[Hilary Newsom]

No, but I.

[Gavin Newsom]

You were really upset about it.

[Hilary Newsom]

In fact, there were moments. But in the end, I appreciated how you, you, how you wove it all together and how it's. With the exception of a couple little things. It's our life, it's our truth, and it's important. As you said, I also had a different perspective on things. I remember after mom died, I was really angry with you. We didn't speak for several months. I don't know if you remember that. Sometimes you're a little bit self centered. So you probably didn't even notice that

[Gavin Newsom]

young man in a hurry that put a mask on. Yeah. Kind of wrote a lot about that. But wait a second. We. So just on that. So it was almost 20 years ago, right?

[Hilary Newsom]

Over.

[Gavin Newsom]

Oh, it's been over 25th annual. I kind of like, you know, it's one of those.

[Hilary Newsom]

At the first three. Yeah. So it's 21 years.

[Gavin Newsom]

21 years now. So mom passed away. She did an assisted suicide. We write about it in the book or I write about it and write it. But you and I were in the room with her after the doc with the doctor.

[Hilary Newsom]

And he and she.

[Gavin Newsom]

Who at a time when it was illegal.

[Hilary Newsom]

Illegal.

[Gavin Newsom]

And had the courage to do that.

[Hilary Newsom]

This.

[Gavin Newsom]

And potentially lose his license. Mom had breast cancer and it come

[Hilary Newsom]

back in the liver.

[Gavin Newsom]

And I, I. The first time she got it, she was fine. And so I frankly took that for granted. And then I'm also running around doing my thing. I got your, my sister taking care of mom. So I'm like, everybody's good and I'm doing my thing. And then all of a sudden I get that phone call from her.

[Hilary Newsom]

Yep.

[Gavin Newsom]

Hello, Honey, I was there.

[Hilary Newsom]

I didn't leave her house for four or five days. And I was there when she made the phone call too, which I.

[Gavin Newsom]

You heard her make the call? Yes. You never told me that.

[Take 5 Oil Change Representative]

I know.

[Hilary Newsom]

Well, because I wasn't speaking to you. Remember that part?

[Gavin Newsom]

And the phone call was. Hello, honey, it's your mom. Hope you're well. You should check in before next Thursday maybe. Whatever day it was. Check him. It will be my last day of life.

[Hilary Newsom]

Okay.

[Gavin Newsom]

Goodbye.

[Hilary Newsom]

I was there and I remember thinking, yeah, that's gonna sting. But.

[Gavin Newsom]

But I also, like, that's a voice

[Hilary Newsom]

message in it because mom, her body was gone.

[Gavin Newsom]

Yes, Your body.

[Hilary Newsom]

Her mom. Her mind was there, but she was skeletal. She couldn't eat. And she's like, can I please do this?

[Gavin Newsom]

And she couldn't take it anymore, of course. And she had like canker sores that were so bad because the treatment. She couldn't even swallow anything.

[Hilary Newsom]

Yeah.

[Gavin Newsom]

Like, it was such pain.

[Hilary Newsom]

Yeah, it was. It was devastating and yet the whole thing was terrifying. It was so awful and unimaginable. And I'm 57 now. And to think she was 55. I thought she seemed older than you know what I mean? But. Right. But I think I'm really loud and proud about My age because of that. But it was so devastating because that's another thing. Mom had had a mammogram. You said it had. Had missed her mammogram. Grams. It was. The tumor was so high. They missed it.

[Gavin Newsom]

Yeah, they missed it.

[Hilary Newsom]

They missed it.

[Gavin Newsom]

Yeah. But.

[Hilary Newsom]

And she found it herself.

[Gavin Newsom]

She found herself too late. So we were in there, and we're in the back, and then two of us.

[Hilary Newsom]

So the doctor's there and he administers the first injection. Mom's holding a picture of us. A black and white photo of us. Yeah. Beautiful photo of us.

[Gavin Newsom]

Yeah.

[Hilary Newsom]

And when we were little and I looked at you and said. And she said. Said, how long is this going to take?

[Gavin Newsom]

Oh, see, I don't remember.

[Hilary Newsom]

My children should not have to endure this.

[Gavin Newsom]

Ah. I don't remember this. Thank you for that.

[Hilary Newsom]

Was that. I couldn't. Could barely breathe at that point.

[Gavin Newsom]

So that was when you and I.

[Hilary Newsom]

And I waited a little longer until she got a little less lucid, and then she grabbed our hands and threw us works of art.

[Gavin Newsom]

Yeah. She said that that was the last thing. Yeah.

[Hilary Newsom]

You know what? I felt like we were like. She. We were super close to her. I was her best friend. I traveled with her all over the world. You know, every. And. And then I left. I looked you. I said, you don't have to stay. And you said, I can't leave her alone.

[Gavin Newsom]

Yeah. And you just took off.

[Hilary Newsom]

And then the weirdest thing is, I went into the living room and I sat on. On Anne Getty's lap. Poor Anne. I don't know. 30 years old, sitting on her lap.

[Take 5 Oil Change Representative]

I didn't.

[Hilary Newsom]

Well, she.

[Gavin Newsom]

Leaving me for the last breaths. Come on, man. And I, you know, we write about it.

[Hilary Newsom]

I asked you to go, and you wouldn't.

[Gavin Newsom]

And I just. I didn't know what else to do. And I was like, it's okay for you to go. I was like, yo. I mean, my God, I can.

[Hilary Newsom]

Yeah. And it's interesting because I. I similarly didn't leave Dad's side. I was laying next to him for the last four days, 24 hours.

[Gavin Newsom]

He passed away shortly after I became governor.

[Hilary Newsom]

Exactly.

[Gavin Newsom]

And lived to watch his son Dec. 12 get elected governor and didn't make it through the inaugural. Didn't see little Dutch up there and the kids. I wish you. Oh, my gosh. But. And I write about that, and this book basically runs up till about that time. It's not a book about my governor's race. It's. Again, it's all. It's everything going Back with one exception, that transition, which includes Dad's death. And then a little bit in the epilogue. Yeah.

[Hilary Newsom]

No, and it was interesting because with Dad, I don't know if I told you this, but I'm lying next to him, and this is the night before he dies. He died. He died in the morning. And. And he kept saying Mom's name. Dad kept saying Tessa in the middle of the night. And I was like, okay, I think we know where this is heading. Ah, that.

[Gavin Newsom]

Because I got there like an hour later.

[Hilary Newsom]

Maybe not even. I think you were there pretty quickly. You were there within 15 minutes of him passing. Yeah. And then you and I sat in the room with him. And then you looked outside and you saw that hawk. Like, hillary, look, there's a hawk out there.

[Gavin Newsom]

And literally, like a peregrine falcon or something.

[Hilary Newsom]

Like, it was crazy. And then you kept sitting there. It's like.

[Gavin Newsom]

Like if there was a spirit animal, you're like, okay, now there's something else going on.

[Hilary Newsom]

And you literally kept saying, moved. Hillary, look, it's still here.

[Gavin Newsom]

It's. And it never been there.

[Hilary Newsom]

No, never.

[Gavin Newsom]

Seconds after dad passes. And it didn't leave when his entire history was going bird photographing, bird watching. His obsession with birds was crazy, and it did.

[Hilary Newsom]

And you kept whispering it, because I think you thought if you said it loudly that the bird would leave. You're like, it's still there. Hell. And we sat there until someone came. Yeah, that was hard. I mean, the good news is, is that, you know, I mean, and I'll say this.

[Nix Bra Representative]

You're.

[Hilary Newsom]

You're. You're. You're in a hurry. You're super busy. But I've never doubted for one second that you always have my back.

[Gavin Newsom]

No, I love that.

[Hilary Newsom]

And it's. We're so lucky for that. You know what I mean? Because these are things, like, even in that moment where I was upset with you, I With. With Mom, I really. It really resonated in the book with me that I did read that you stayed focused on work because then it wouldn't happen. And I didn't get it at the time, and I got it later. I got it later. I'm like, he wasn't there because if he was there, then mom would die, and if you weren't there, she couldn't leave you. You know what I mean? Like, I think I intellectualized it somehow. Like, that made me feel better.

[Gavin Newsom]

Well, I think it's. Yeah. And just. I mean, it's just when, you know, when you. When you can't control something you control what you can control, which is your work. And that effort, I just, you need to try to compartmentalize. And so much of it, like in this racket of politics getting just crushed 24 7. I mean, like, literally every, you know, this, you see what's on, like every 10 minutes, trying to just end. And like, I mean, I want to pick up my phone right after this and be like, oh, God, now what? And so you have to compartmentalize in order to get through the day. You just have to. And so it's been. It's all my life, but it's, you know, it's shaped a lot of it by those early experiences and by the way, including Mom's early experiences. We talk about that in the book. The stuff I didn't fully appreciate. Her dad, who took his life, not an assisted suicide, but a suicide with a gun head. He was, was a prisoner of war in Corregidor, came back, had severe drinking problems, but also put a gun to his daughters, Both of them, mom and, and, and her sister's head against the fireplace.

[Hilary Newsom]

And mom never would have told us that story.

[Gavin Newsom]

They don't talk about that. And so that early trauma sort of echoes, right? Just generations. And, you know, saw that. But you mentioned, and, you know, just, I don't want to, I don't want to take too much more of your time, but we talk a little bit. We talked only a tiny bit about the Gettys. You mentioned Dan Getty and not a lot about the Gettys, which play a huge role in this. And Gettys are a wealthy family that dad grew up with in high school, knew two members of the family. Their father at the time was arguably the richest man in the world. J. Paul Getty Oil. You know, oil primarily as his business. And so much of his. His life was shaped in that relationship. So much of our life ultimately became shaped in that relationship. So we've described mom in that respect. We describe Dad's advocacy and his love for an environment and adventure and, you know, and, you know, all things Sar Shriver. Is Bobby Kennedy behind me. You know, this notion of solving for ignorance, poverty and disease. And so the vernacular of the 60s that defined dad in terms of social justice, racial justice, but he also, as an advocate for the family, his life was shaped and our lives were shaped by the Gettys. Do you have any early memories?

[Hilary Newsom]

Oh, all of. I mean, I. You know, it's funny because when dad was in the hospital and we had to make the decision of, do we bring him home? And we knew what that meant. And I remember Ann and Gordon running into the hospital.

[Gavin Newsom]

Anne and Gordon Getty.

[Hilary Newsom]

Ann and Gordon Getty running into the hospital and. And grabs his best friend.

[Gavin Newsom]

Gordon.

[Hilary Newsom]

Well, no, I'm going to tell you that exact, that sweet story. So she grabbed my hand and she's. She said, you're mine, Hillary. You're mine. You're my girl and you always have been.

[Gavin Newsom]

Yes.

[Hilary Newsom]

And you're gonna be okay. And hugged me. And I remember then, Gordon, the night before dad died, and we. You were.

[Gavin Newsom]

And by the way, that's saying something after you lose your mom and, you know, and then you lose your dad, to have someone like that saying, you know, I gotcha.

[Hilary Newsom]

Yeah. She's like, you'll always. You're mine and you'll always. I'm always here for. You're gonna be okay. And then you and I were sitting at the house the night before dad passed, and Gordon said, you know, a lot of people say, and you have a version of this in the book, but a lot of people say they're Bill Newsom's best friend. He said, but I'm his best best friend. And that's exactly what Gordon Getty said. So. But back to the early childhood, I mean, we grew up going to their house from. I mean, we grew up with the kids. We traveled with them on, you know, dozens and dozens of trips, big and small.

[Gavin Newsom]

I write about them in the book. I mean, crazy King Juan Carlos and just like.

[Hilary Newsom]

Right.

[Gavin Newsom]

But also, but like, but then just river rafting, like just camping and out there, not glamping, like legit out there. Like more rugged, more traditional stuff. You would, you know that a lot of us get a Winnebago type thing to do. And then these crazy sort of 10 star, not five star trips.

[Hilary Newsom]

Yeah. And just always loving us. Always. And I think I was much closer to Ann when I was younger because she had the boys, you know, the four plus one. And me, I was the girl. So I was so close to her. She was so loving. I mean, she hosted Toleda's Sweet sixteen. And, you know, and Sienna and Talita both went to her school. And she was so loving to Jeff. I mean, we had a really close relationship. She hosted all sorts of parties and things like that for us and for me. And she loved mom, even though that was awkward. Right. And so because of the divorce, she taught mom to needlepoint. I don't know if you know that. Yeah. And so she was just a beautiful person. But what I think people don't Realize about Anne in particular is that Ann Getty was the most humble, like, not fancy. I remember we went to India, that trip that you describe. I think that Anne took Mom and. And me and Barbara, and we were gone for three weeks.

[Gavin Newsom]

Your Aunt Barbara?

[Hilary Newsom]

Aunt Barbara Newsom. Yeah. And literally every single person who was on the periphery of the trip was like, oh, this isn't, you know, the nicest hotel. And Ann just went with it. I mean, she was authentic. She wasn't pretentious. She was approachable.

[Gavin Newsom]

And when she died, she died years ago. And I actually. It got edited out. I write about the phone call I got when she died. It was. Was devastating.

[Hilary Newsom]

Devastating.

[Gavin Newsom]

Devastating. Like, because that was what she. I didn't know she said that to you, but I always felt that with Anne and she was going to be alive for the rest of our life, you know, it was like. And she was going to be that. And then when she died, that was. I. I was. It was a few years ago. I don't know. I was right there, Fair Oaks, in my closet. And Stanley Gotti, our close friend, called, and I just remember just falling down on a chair, and then I couldn't talk, and I hung up on him. I said, I came. I can't deal with this.

[Hilary Newsom]

Yeah. No, it was devastating because she truly was family. And, you know, every time I had. I was sick or had a surgery or something, I always recovered at her house. She always looked out after me.

[Gavin Newsom]

She's just a beautiful godmother, our fairy godmother.

[Hilary Newsom]

And she knew. She knew how to behave with mom, meaning she knew that we had to compartmentalize everything. And she'd always send me home, though, with a present for Mom. I think we've. I think, you know, we. We sort of put it aside and let her find it herself because we didn't want to.

[Gavin Newsom]

Mom wasn't part of those early trips, so that came later. This. Mom was like. We would go on these exotic Trips.

[Hilary Newsom]

I was 64 when she went on her first trip the year before she died.

[Gavin Newsom]

So she was never part of that. And then she would watch her two kids go on these exotic.

[Hilary Newsom]

Drop us off on a private. To a private plane.

[Gavin Newsom]

Yeah, private. 51 weeks a year, we're at Mom's in one week. We'd do this thing and we'd come back and mom would be, oh, know, I hope you enjoyed the trip. Good night. And then never talk about it again. And we drag our bags and have to unpack and was. You didn't want to talk about it? She was like, this is the passive aggressive. Hope you had fun. I was here working three jobs, but I'm a grinder. I'm. Yeah, I like the hard work. I love the hard work. I'm not a guy dials it in.

[Hilary Newsom]

No, you, You.

[Gavin Newsom]

Except in this interview, I dialed it in. The winner. I confess. I did not.

[Hilary Newsom]

This interview.

[Gavin Newsom]

Yeah. I didn't fully prepare for this interview because I would have come with the receipts to challenge some of your assertions and assumptions. Yeah, I would have called you out. I mean, this has gone through scrutiny and fact check though you suggest 13. When I think you were 13 up there.

[Hilary Newsom]

I was in Canada.

[Gavin Newsom]

You were 12.

[Hilary Newsom]

I was 12.

[Gavin Newsom]

And that was getting that wrong.

[Hilary Newsom]

That was a humiliating.

[Gavin Newsom]

Well, you put you at. You.

[Hilary Newsom]

I said it because you know what? You said it was okay Person out there.

[Gavin Newsom]

You said it was okay. And this is the bedwetting thing.

[Hilary Newsom]

It's horrible.

[Gavin Newsom]

So she wanted me to include.

[Hilary Newsom]

But you know. You know why it's relevant?

[Gavin Newsom]

Why?

[Hilary Newsom]

Because you protected me and you made sure that nobody.

[Gavin Newsom]

Oh, that's.

[Hilary Newsom]

That's the. That's the reason it's in there. It's not in there to make me embarrassed.

[Gavin Newsom]

I'm glad it wasn't. I'm. You know, I didn't know I was. You never know, like older brother.

[Hilary Newsom]

Well, you were kind of abusive when we were really little. You. We watched a lot of.

[Gavin Newsom]

It was going really well.

[Hilary Newsom]

We used to watch a lot of cartoons and when we lived on Toledo Way with Rachel, Robin and Rebecca, mom slept in the dining room, as you. As you noticed.

[Gavin Newsom]

Yeah.

[Hilary Newsom]

And it has a wooden. There was a wooden bed frame and then the. Just the bed sat in it. So. But it was like on the floor, remember?

[Gavin Newsom]

Yeah.

[Hilary Newsom]

So just like a box around a bed.

[Gavin Newsom]

I remember. Yeah.

[Hilary Newsom]

And you used to take me and spin me around until my arm popped out of the socket.

[Gavin Newsom]

You actually did have.

[Hilary Newsom]

No, but one of the times I fell hit the side of the corner of the bed. Yeah. Yeah, you broke the. The window. At least on three occasions. Thank God. Uncle Paul always saved the day and came over and he. He also taught us how to pop my arm back in. And then you would make me run down the hall and try and slip on a banana peel because you thought it was so funny. So you were like reenacting. I mean, thank God Roadrunner. You didn't give me dynamite in my pocket or something.

[Gavin Newsom]

Oh, I get it. You're saying I was watching.

[Hilary Newsom]

You were watching these, like.

[Gavin Newsom]

See, I was like, so influenced by cartoons.

[Hilary Newsom]

Slip on A banana peel. I'm like, that sounds great.

[Gavin Newsom]

So, yeah, maybe it explains my four kids right now. A little bit of grace.

[Hilary Newsom]

Well, that's the thing. Every time you're like, don't do that. I'm like, he did it. He did it. He did it 10 times.

[Gavin Newsom]

I'm raising two kids on her own now. That's brutal. I can't even. I got a rock star wife, and we have some help periodically, but how to. Including you. That come over and help the kids. And I'm, like, overwhelmed. I can't handle it. Like, last night, I had to go. I'm like, I can't deal with that.

[Hilary Newsom]

That's the best part. So when you left last night, we were at an event.

[Gavin Newsom]

An event with the speaker to be. Hakeem Jeffries and Nancy Pelosi with Gordon.

[Hilary Newsom]

Gordon Getty.

[Gavin Newsom]

Yeah. At their house. What a homecoming in so many years. It was a fundraiser for getting the congressional majority back.

[Hilary Newsom]

Yeah. And Gavin announced that you announced that you had to leave because your wife was out of town and you didn't have a babysitter. And then I looked at my table and I said, because the babysitter's right here. And I got a good laugh out of that. The truth. But you know. You know how mom did it. A lot of it was Uncle Paul and Aunt Danny. A lot.

[Gavin Newsom]

Yeah, they helped.

[Hilary Newsom]

They were very. They were big.

[Gavin Newsom]

They were huge influence. And I write about Paul lovingly and. And his. In both of them. In terms of their influence. Yeah. No, I mean, we're. Look, we're blessed. I mean, and that was the thing. I mean, we were blessed. I mean, despite, you know, the. It just. One of the reasons I want to write this book is mom deserved the real story. I'm glad because I'm so sick and tired of this notion that everything was handed. And you deserve it. It. You know, it's like, we deserve it. You know, it's like, come on, hate me politically. Character. I. And I played into it. I'm not an idiot. I've done a million things to play type. And I write about that.

[Hilary Newsom]

Yeah, I do. I appreciate. Honest.

[Gavin Newsom]

No, and. And that's the thing I'm trying to, like, really scrutinize. I'm like, I get it, but. But I also want you to get that other people around me don't deserve to be piled into that. And so I. In some way, in many ways, it wasn't just about me telling my story. It was allowing you guys all the grace of your story. This space where you Aren't characterized or caricatured as something you're not.

[Hilary Newsom]

I mean, we've worked. And that's the thing. I tell people all the time when they're like, oh, silver spoon. I'm like, why are you so angry that he's successful? Because he works so hard. You don't have boundaries. You give and give and give and give. And you, I mean, every minute of every day, if you're not with the kids or Jen or, you know, working, you're teaching yourself something new. You're learning, you're absorbing, you're, I mean, also. And you make so many sacrifices. And so what if you dress nice? That's great. Like, you know.

[Gavin Newsom]

You like my shirt?

[Hilary Newsom]

That is. Yeah, I think I gave you that for Christmas if I didn't.

[Gavin Newsom]

It's my new, it's my new blue shirt, which is pretty much the only shirt that I will wear.

[Hilary Newsom]

I was gonna say it's blue or white. I was wondering what color we were gonna come with.

[Gavin Newsom]

Two gear years.

[Hilary Newsom]

I was surprised, I'm surprised you went gray. I thought maybe you would be like, you know, scared.

[Gavin Newsom]

You really are doing this. I, I, I exposed my dippity do the first time I used, you know, translucent gel from Walgreens.

[Hilary Newsom]

My God. And I had to pay you $5 to try on Levi's Shrink to fit

[Gavin Newsom]

jeans because I was wearing a suit. God, I was such a loser.

[Hilary Newsom]

It wasn't a loser. It was an innovator. And you do. I was like, I will say I

[Gavin Newsom]

was like, I was.

[Hilary Newsom]

You're an entrepreneur. You were an entrepreneur from the gate. Like all those things, you know, those money making schemes that ruined our backyard, but legit. And I see that in your son Hunter too.

[Gavin Newsom]

He's always come up with, yeah, I love that. Yeah, I love that. I just gotta have that entrepreneur mindset. Gotta increase the number of tries, try new things, learn from mistakes, be willing to make mistakes.

[Hilary Newsom]

Yeah, your kids are perfect.

[Gavin Newsom]

And I swear I continue to go back to this just like it's the gift. Oh, God, I'm so lucky. Because I can't do things the way other people can do it. Can't read those speeches. You have to make up for it in other ways. You overcompensate, but you also have a visual. There's a visual quality. I'm not sure it's reflected.

[Hilary Newsom]

It's so good you talk about it so openly though. Because I remember when you spoke at Comedy the Sacred Heart where the girls were going to school when they were in second and fourth Grade, I think. And you in the. The head of school said what you did in five minutes. You know, these kids were dyslexic, could hear for 15 years through therapy and parents. And that you change, like, their mindset in a minute, in an instant. So the fact that you have constantly talked about your dyslexia and how you. You're so successful and you've overcome it has been really important.

[Gavin Newsom]

No, I was so cool. I was just at the JFK library, which, by the way, you can appreciate for me.

[Hilary Newsom]

For you. Yeah.

[Gavin Newsom]

Like, I mean, it's like a shrine. Yeah. You know, Bobby and J. And I'm, like, talking. I'm talking about the book. Book. And then there was, of course, what's the best memory? I have this little kid, he had a suit and tie on.

[Hilary Newsom]

This is sweet.

[Gavin Newsom]

And he comes up, and his mom. He's very nervous, puts his head down. It says, I have dyslexia, too.

[Hilary Newsom]

Oh, God.

[Gavin Newsom]

And I'm like. I get down on my knees. I look at him. I'm tearing up. I kept just talking to him.

[Hilary Newsom]

Yeah.

[Gavin Newsom]

And I'm like, how you. You know, you doing all right? You don't. You're not giving up. It's like, I'm not giving up.

[Hilary Newsom]

Oh, God.

[Gavin Newsom]

I said. I'm like, like. And I give him a hug, and then he walks away. I'm like, oh, God, that was me. But I never had the guts to be that. Me.

[Hilary Newsom]

Yeah.

[Gavin Newsom]

You know, I'm like.

[Hilary Newsom]

But that's so important. And not courage, because.

[Gavin Newsom]

No, it's.

[Hilary Newsom]

It's courageous that you talk about all of your flaws, too. And I appreciate it. Because in the moments when you were making mistakes and I called you out

[Gavin Newsom]

on them, all of them are in the book. The reason you should buy the book.

[Hilary Newsom]

My book's coming out soon, and it has the rest of his clause.

[Gavin Newsom]

Yeah.

[Hilary Newsom]

No, but I always say that, you know, you didn't shy away, and I think that's. That, for me, shows integrity. Because that. That's not easy to put out all your mistakes.

[Gavin Newsom]

Well, that's, you know, it's called life.

[Hilary Newsom]

Yeah.

[Gavin Newsom]

Perfection. It's a journey, and I'm still on it, trying to get better. We'll make more mistakes. I just hope it's not the same ones. With that, I'm not going to make the mistake of inviting you back to talk about some of those flaws. So this has been Hilary Newsom on. This is Gavin Newsom. Thank you.

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[Hilary Newsom]

Are you kidding me?

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