← This is Gavin Newsom
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- [00:01]
Gavin Newsom
I'm joined today by presidential candidate Hunter Biden.
- [00:04]
Hunter Biden
I'll run, but only as your vp. I think everybody's carrying around a bag of heroin in their pocket, and it's called an iPhone. I'm not stepping off the stage for fucking anybody.
- [00:14]
Gavin Newsom
This is Gavin Newsom.
- [00:17]
Hunter Biden
I'm Hunter Biden. This is an iHeart podcast. Guaranteed Human.
- [00:26]
Gavin Newsom
I'm joined today by presidential candidate Hunter Biden, 2028. Come on, Hunter, what's going on?
- [00:34]
Hunter Biden
No, no, no, no.
- [00:34]
Gavin Newsom
You got more buzz out there than you got the President of the United States, Donald Trump, talking about your candidacy for president.
- [00:43]
Hunter Biden
I had to give you a break for just one day at least. Here's the deal. Here's the deal. I'll. I'll run, but only as your. As your vp, because the truth of the matter is the vice president's residence is a lot co. A lot easier job too.
- [01:00]
Gavin Newsom
Is it you legitimately. Is it. Is it a better residence? I mean, you were both. You have. You've unique status to be able to actually make that case.
- [01:08]
Hunter Biden
The. The White House is. The grandeur of the White House is. It never gets old. But the. But you really do feel like you're in a gilded cage, you know, it's. And the grounds of the. Of the VP residence are really private, and it's pretty cool.
- [01:29]
Gavin Newsom
I was, in fact, the last time we saw each other, I was with you. Your dad brought me upstairs in the residence. And to your point, that's, you know, it's as grand and extraordinary as it is. No one wants to be. You know, the last thing anyone wants to hear is someone saying, you know, it's not all that. But to your point, that's a little claustrophobic. I mean, everybody around, not a lot of sense of freedom or privacy on.
- [01:53]
Hunter Biden
Yeah, so get used to it, pal. I was. I was hoping when I saw you that we would just dig in, that you would, you know, I'd get you in one of those secret rooms. You'd stay.
- [02:07]
Gavin Newsom
Your dad brought me up, by the way. Now, I'm talking out of school here, but he talked. He was on a tour that. I think that was for him. He was walking into closets. He said he hadn't been in. In years and years, and he was discovered. He's like, well, let's see what's behind this door. And there's a bunch of clothes that were stored. He goes, oh, I think I put that in six years or four years ago. It's.
- [02:27]
Hunter Biden
It was exactly.
- [02:28]
Gavin Newsom
It was what. He was in one of Those moods where I think your mom had to come up to get him because he was taking too much time with me, which was fun.
- [02:38]
Hunter Biden
Well, that's. That, that's a, that was a common occurrence and still is.
- [02:42]
Gavin Newsom
Yeah.
- [02:42]
Hunter Biden
Yeah.
- [02:43]
Gavin Newsom
So look, you've been making a lot of news lately, and, And I think surprising a lot of people as well. I mean, you showed up and, and I appreciate you showing up where you've been showing up. I spent three hours with Sean Ryan myself. And there you are with Sean Ryan, former Navy seal, someone who was out there, very critical. In fact, I remember walking into Sean Ryan's set, and right above the door, it said, let's go, Brandon, when I got there, so I understood exactly where his politics were. And then, lo and behold, you show up on my feed and you're there with, with, with. With Ryan, and you were there with Candace Owens recently and back on X and, and blowing up the Internet. And so, you know, the obvious first question, Hunter, is what the hell is going on? Welcome back to, you know, the Bright Lights. And, and what was, what's. What was the trigger man? What was the inspiration to come back out and really tell your story?
- [03:38]
Hunter Biden
Yeah, I, I am. The way that I, number one is, you know, I learned a little bit, and I'm. I'm being serious a little bit from you. I watched that, that interview that you did with Charlie Kirk, and, you know, he had that line when you guys were talking about how progressives, how Democrats are afraid to go into the lion's den of these, you know, and I thought, shit, I'm not, you know, because, because what are you going to say that hasn't already been said? And there's an incredible freedom to the, to having been stripped bare in the public square and lashed a thousand times and still be standing. And, you know, it's not by any, you know, courage or, you know, you know, I didn't go to Rishikesh for seven years and trained to be a monk, but what I did learn is that there's an enormous freedom in owning your whole story. And so I felt more than anything, what I had the opportunity to do is talk to the 50 million Americans who are suffering on a daily basis from addiction. And it's not something that any of us are unfamiliar with. I mean, anybody. Everybody's got a best friend, a mom, a dad, a brother, a sister, a love family member that, or themselves that have, that have suffered from addiction. Now, not everybody was a crack addict, but addiction is addiction, and it is one of the things that probably one of the singular things that, that, that binds us all. So whether it was Sean Ryan who opened up to me about his own struggle with addiction and, or Candace Owens who. I thought that if I had the opportunity to sit with her personally, that she would see the humanity of it. And because, you know, I don't think these people are bad people, you know, I mean, they have very different political views than I have. And I think that you have. But, you know, what is it? We're all just trying to figure it out, man. You know, and I, and, and I think that, that that's the reason. And more than anything, like, I'll tell you what I'm doing now is that I joined a organization called Peak Path Health, and it's a rehab. And but what we're doing, they brought me on to build their foundation. And the foundation is going to focus on aftercare, which I think is the big missing gap in the recovery industry is you get your 30 days and then you go back to the same situation that you were in and your chances of making it are really, really slim. But these aftercare programs and kind of long term stays not where it is a, like a confined space, like a rehab in which you can get job training, wellness. You know, a lot of the work that my sister does with people that are coming out of, out of prison or out of rehab, in terms of teaching them wellness techniques, everything from meditation to just common nutrition and things like that, all of it makes a difference, particularly in a, in a community of people where, you know, recidivism or relapse, whatever you want to call it, is about, you know, 75 to 85%. So, yeah, so that's the reason I, you know, they gave me a stage, I'm going to use it.
- [07:27]
Gavin Newsom
And was there, was there a trigger? I mean, was there a conversation, was there a moment where you said, you know what? I'm done being, you know, my story being told by everybody else. Because you've been sober now. It's been seven years. You just posted it's been seven years. June 1, 2019. And, and so throughout the presidency, throughout your father's presidency, you were, you were clean and sober, yet you were getting your ass kicked 24 7, the COVID of New York Post more than any human being in modern history. You just, you know, these guys just abandoned. These guys. Gingrich, I mean, well, not Gingrich, sure, but Giuliani, these guys, and the weaponization of that laptop or whatever, you know, all of that. And you were quiet. You were quiet. Then why, you know, what was the moment where you said, I'm going to defend myself. I'm going to write my own story?
- [08:18]
Hunter Biden
Yeah, it was. I felt like I had enough distance from the politics of the administration. You know, why now? Like, why right now? You know, I needed. I needed that year to get my, you know, to get my feet back underneath me. The reason, you know, you know, this is that the presidency, in my choice to be vocal or not, it wasn't. It wasn't about me. I'm. I'm fully aware that nobody really gives a shit about Hunter Biden. What they gave a shit about was power. What they gave a shit about was presidency. And they attacked the one thing that they knew my dad loved the most. It's his family. And, you know, I mean, that's a play that is as old as politics, but it was on a. On a. On a biblical scale for me. But it really wasn't my place. You know, I heard Tim Miller, who I, by the way, who I like, and I mean, I like what he's doing, so I don't want to get into, yeah, a, you know, spat, you know, with people that are, I think, preaching and fighting the good fight, and I really do. And. But he. He made. He said, you know, well, Hunter Biden was such a distraction, and why was he such a distraction? And, you know, you know, it's. You know, this is partially his fault that we lost because, you know, he just couldn't stay out of the, you know, out of the news. I was like, oh, man. So if I could have stayed out of the news, I sat in my garage in. Up in Big Rock in our home state of California and, And paint it for four years. I didn't do a single piece of business or, you know, I went to Yale Law School and I didn't use my law degree one time in the four years that my dad was president. And I painted and, you know, and I did well in painting. I, you know, I sold some paintings and all to people that everybody eventually, through subpoenas was able to figure out. And, you know, I made about $220,000 a year. But the fact of the matter is, is that I stayed to myself, and it was never a choice to be a distraction. So I didn't feel like it was my place at that time during the administration to. To go on Twitter and. And. And fire off a few zingers, you know what I mean? Like, you know, it just. I have too much respect for the office and the people that work there. And the. Just that the amount of time that they commit to doing what's best for the administration, what's best for the country, and what was best for my dad. So I kind of sat it out.
- [11:05]
Gavin Newsom
And was that. I mean, was that debated? Did you have conversations saying, look, they've crossed the line now for the, you know, 10th time. Enough. It's not about me. It is about my dad, and I need to protect the integrity of our name, our family, and just the bullshit that's out there. I mean, were there moments where you said, you know, okay, now I've got to come forward and. And say something, but held. Held back?
- [11:26]
Hunter Biden
Yeah.
- [11:27]
Gavin Newsom
I mean, yeah, yeah.
- [11:29]
Hunter Biden
I mean, the honest answer to that is, is, yeah, you know, one of those times was when they were. They, you know, they. They played that game where they wanted me to come testify before Congress. Yeah. And I said, sure, I'll come. And. And I'll do it publicly. And I. The only way that I'll do it is if you do it in front of the cameras in. In committee, you know, and we can broadcast it live. And, and people inside the White House were really opposed to that. And, and that was probably the one time in which I said, too bad, because the. At that point, you know, it just so bothered me that they were able to get away with. And continue to get away with this thing. Like right now, what they're doing with the. This Epstein, you know, investigation committee, which is no investigation. You know, they're not even, you know, they release transcripts. Four days later, people come out, and, you know, they characterize it the way they characterize it, and the press has already moved on to something else, and that's exactly what they did. But at that time, that's. Remember, I went up to. I went up to the Hill and I went over to the. To actual live committee hearing, and I walked in, I sat and sat in the audience, and all of them. I remember Nancy Mace was saying, this is the. This is the epitome of privilege, you know, And I said, he won't even. I said, I'm right here. I'm right here. I'm ready to go. And of course, they didn't take me up on it, but there were times that I was very, very frustrated. But again, it wasn't my call. And, And, And I'm. And I'm really. I'm. I'm grateful for exactly where I am right now, though, because I don't know in that maelstrom whether I would have been out there and would have been all about all defensive. You know what I mean? It would have been like, oh, well, that's not true. And that's not true. And I can't admit to that. And I can't do this. And. And this now. Like, I'm not running for anything as much as, you know, the. I think the trolls on our side are triggering the Hunter Derangement syndrome. I call it now hd. It has replaced tds, but I'm not running. And, you know, like, so I did a post today about, you know, like, it's the Idiocracy 2.0. You know, I mean, like this. And. And I thought it was funny.
- [14:06]
Gavin Newsom
By the way, I saw it today. I was. I thought it was one of our posts. And they said, no, it's Hunter's. I'm like, jesus, yeah.
- [14:12]
Hunter Biden
Yeah.
- [14:13]
Gavin Newsom
By the way, it got me thinking, seriously, maybe, you know, maybe on, you know, Monday, the President's birthday, I may. I may want to take a day off. Maybe you can take over my feed.
- [14:22]
Hunter Biden
I. 100%. I'm all in. I'm all in. You know, it's funny, everybody thinks that there's, like this, you know, like, I got. The DNC is working on my behalf. I feel like saying, when is the ever. The DNC ever worked on it and anybody's behalf, let alone mine. But the. It's just me with my two little thumbs here. But it's liberating, you know, I mean, and part of it is this. You know, I think that somebody wrote an article in the American Conservative about that. Somebody sent me about this little run I'm having on Twitter, which, you know, all. All good things come to an end. I can't keep up this space on my own. But. And they said, you know, and it was actually pretty insightful in many ways. And it just said it's all about authenticity.
- [15:16]
Gavin Newsom
Yeah.
- [15:16]
Hunter Biden
It's like, what are you going to do to a guy that basically claims it all? You know what I mean? That takes ownership for all of the things and fights back. When you are. When you open yourself up for a punch, what are you going to do? And that's kind of like how Trump was back in. They make the connection. And where I feel, I think they really fail is. Is in that part, is that the difference between being audacious and authentic is. Is. Is real. Donald Trump has the audacity to say that he's 6 foot 3 and weighs 224 pounds when we both know he's 5, 11, 300. You know, Donald Trump has the Audacity to say there's very fine people on both sides. Donald Trump has the audac that he's going to end the war in Iraq in one day. Donald Trump has the audacity to lie to your face and piss on your leg and tell you that it's raining. That's not authenticity. And I think that the American people have fundamentally confused that and it's not their fault. Look, I think everybody's carrying around a bag of heroin in their pocket and it's called an iPhone, okay? It is the dopamine hit of choice for 350 million of us. And what we do is that we are fed this lie that this country's divided, that everybody hates everybody, that they're never going to be able to get along, that if you believe this, then you're a traitor and this is treason. And Hunter Biden is a pedophile rapist, blah, blah, blah. And Governor Newsom is turning every school into a trans blah, blah, blah. It's not real, man. You and I both know ain't real. It's literally what we're being fed by a handful of oligarchs that control our technology companies. I mean, I always give the example. Do you remember this when the whistleblower came out from Facebook and she testified in 2022 or 20, 2023, and she testified that Facebook knew well, knew full well that their algorithm was almost directly responsible for this, for the exponential spike in. In suicides among girls between the ages of 13 and 17. Exponential. A 330%, I think, increase in that. Which by the way, continues to this day.
- [17:54]
Gavin Newsom
Yep.
- [17:55]
Hunter Biden
And you know what we did about it?
- [17:57]
Gavin Newsom
Not a thing.
- [17:58]
Hunter Biden
And by the way, all of us, I don't mean just Congress, I mean all of us, what did we do about it? You know what, we still got the phone in our pocket. And by the way, I'm as guilty as that as anybody. And I just think, like, if we can get people to realize that, is that we don't hate each other. We're being told to hate each other. And so that's why I want to go on Candace Owens. I want to go talk to Tucker. I even want to go to talk to people that I literally, I mean, my first question to me was, why are you such a Nazi to Nick Fuentes? You know what I mean? I want to talk because, gov, you know this and I'm talking too much. That's my job as a Biden is, is 18 to 30, 35 year olds, draft age generation. They're angry, man. They're really angry and, and we can sit here and say they're stupid and they don't know what they're talking about, and they're so dumb that they fall into the trap of, like, these, like these people and these people that they're online, they're not, man. They just want to belong.
- [19:11]
Gavin Newsom
You got it.
- [19:11]
Hunter Biden
They want to feel like they have some control. And I'll tell you what, a generation of people that lost two years of their life, the most important years of their life in Covid, and we don't even remotely recognize the trauma of that. And I think that that's what we're living through. And at the same time, the exact wrong person came along to the stage and literally lit the match.
- [19:43]
Gavin Newsom
That's right.
- [19:44]
Hunter Biden
And that's who we have right now. So, you know, I think it's, I think what you're doing and the way that you're talking, I mean, it's inspiring to me.
- [19:54]
Gavin Newsom
So I appreciate all that and so much to unpack Hunter and what you were just saying. And I'm curious, you know, just in the context, just in a contemporary space, you know, we're talking day after the main primary. What do you think in the context of authenticity versus the audacity frame of Platinum as a, as, you know, an example, I mean, you know, the Democrats struggling a little bit to reconcile. You mentioned Nick Fuentes and obviously the Platner tattoo and, you know, some of the prior comments. What do you, what do you make of him in the context of, of, of all this that you're describing?
- [20:30]
Hunter Biden
Take him at his word, that, that, and which, by the way, is not something he, he's not saying something new today that he wasn't saying four months ago or five months ago, which is this. He, he was a, a, a veteran, a combat veteran, and, and he came back, you know, he had some real issues, and with PTSD and, and that trauma and whatever way that he was working it out, I, I, I, he, I think, has been really, really open about is that he wasn't a good person. And here's what I know. It takes a lot of stamina, at least I'm not going to say I think courage, too. I'll give myself that to, to get back up and, and, and build a better life. And I don't, I, I'm, I'm 99.9 certain is that Graham Platner is no Nazi, you know, and, and I don't think that he's a racist in any way. I hear the way that he talks. I think that his relationship with his wife is his relationship with his wife. The entirety of that controversy is, you know, it's all about, you know, leaked, consensual, you know, stuff. I mean, stupid. Maybe you would have a problem. Not you. I mean anyone would, would have a problem. But like, you know, I always say to people like, show me your phone. Give me access to your icloud. Let me, let's, let's, let's go through it and pull everything that we can that is inappropriate, that is off color, that is, you know, that selfie that you took when you drunk off your ass and you know, you sent it to your blah, blah, blah, like show me your phone. And if that's the standard by which we are going to judge people, particularly people in elected office, then I don't think we're going to have many people in elected office. And so as it relates to Graham Platner, I focus on this, is that I have not heard anything in any way that would say to me that, that, that he is a abusive, misogynistic or anti Semitic or racist person. And I have heard this from Graham Platner, though, that he thinks we should all have free health care. I have heard this from Grant Platner also, that he thinks that we have to radically change our politics. I have heard this from Grant Platner that working people are getting fucking screwed. I have heard this from Grant Platner that we aren't all, that they have us at each other's throats and we should be at their throats. I have heard this from Grant Platner that he thinks the oligarchs in the tech tech are tech overlords and billionaires are really, really, really making it the playing field unfair for working class people. That's what I've heard from Grant Platner. And so I hope I'm right about that because, you know, I look at somebody and I know you probably have a personal relationship with him, but you know, I watched as Zoro Mandani kind of came up and I thought, holy. Like, I like what I'm hearing, you know. And then when he got elected, I thought, I hope, I hope he can deliver. And you know what? Like talk about delivering, I mean, talk about delivering. And he thinking about things like, you know, you know what I would do? What I'm going to advise you to do on your first day as president is this. Do something about rent. Rent. Amen. Do something about the algorithms that create the, that, that create a system that is completely Unfair because of companies like BlackRock and these giant hedge funds and private equity funds that have come and bought up all of the housing and now are basically in collusion with each other to increase rent by 8% a year across the board almost nationally without any state or governor being able to do anything directly about it necessarily. And you know what people are most concerned about, real people like 95% of us is rent.
- [25:21]
Gavin Newsom
Yeah.
- [25:22]
Hunter Biden
You know, more people rent today than, and as compared to ownership than any time in history. And so if you're 35 years old, married, and you have two kids and you rent a house, that 8% that goes up the next year because of some guy, by the way, I'm not talking about small landlords, I'm talking about these private equity companies have come and you got to make a choice between whether you're going to stay in your house or whether you're going to, you know, be able to buy food or whether you're going to be able to get diapers. And you're working two jobs and your wife is working two jobs. It's just, you know, people are just trying to make it by.
- [26:01]
Gavin Newsom
Yeah, you got it.
- [26:02]
Hunter Biden
Anyway.
- [26:03]
Gavin Newsom
No, look, I appreciate that. And you know, without going down that rabbit hole though, as substantive it is, I think it connects things in more ways and more days and explains more things to your point about the nihilism a lot of young people feel and this, this, this sort of, this belonging deficit, dignity deficit where people don't feel connected, respected or protected broadly, the algorithms sort of dialing up that outrage and people dialing back now and giving into that despair and many people and going back to sort of the origin story here, self medicating and many people, you know, struggling in historic ways. And I want to go back to that a little bit because, you know, this really is, you know, your journey is shared by, as you suggest, upwards of 50 million people. And you know, I just wrote up, finished a book and talked about, you know, I learned so much in the process of writing a book. You wrote a book in 2021. And I imagine you went through the same process of, you know, learning about yourself and discovering things that you never knew about yourself. Your own motivations on the basis of your parents bio, your grandparents bio, how they were born and raised. And my grandfather spent four years prisoner war after marching in Corregidor, came back broken, alcoholic and ultimately took his own life. And so this notion, you know, that you share that journey, that Platner and others, there's grace in terms of Empathy and understanding, some humility of the journey that people, all of us are on in different ways. But your journey for the last seven years has been pretty remarkable. And you talked about painting and, and I think big part of the origin story of the painting, if I'm not mistaken, was that was also part of your journey, a catharsis, your ability sort of substitute the habitual nature of an addiction with a creative outlet and the dexterity, the sort of routinization of, of, of that art, literally and figuratively helping you with that recovery. And, and so the focus, I know Tim and others focus on, well, all the art that you sold and you talk about it, $220,000 a year, hardly becoming a multi millionaire as a distraction. But for you, that was about your life.
- [28:18]
Hunter Biden
Yeah, it was. And, and you know, I painted my whole life and since I was a kid and making art since I was a kid. And, and, and it was something that always gave me a relief and a release. And part of that is about people that have suffered from addiction before can understand this, which is the need to get out of your own head is much more acute, I think in addicts than the rest of us. And painting is that because painting for me is that the, the complete and utter focus on the, it's something that requires your mental and physical coordination at the same time. And Melissa and I just got married. I was newly clean and sober. And she went out and she bought me this table that is back in Malibu and, and she put it out in this little kind of shed that we had in the house that we were staying at. They're beautiful windows. And she bought me some painting supplies. And from that day, you know, I, I, I paint, you know, hours a day. I wake up, you know, usually by 5, 6, and, and I'm at that table when I'm back there in my studio and I, and I paint as long as I possibly can. And it was, it, it has given me a, an incredible sense of, of purpose. Because the other side of painting is this, is that the creative act in and of itself is a beautiful thing, but when you share it with somebody else, it becomes almost an act of courage. And I mean that in the sense of whether you're, whether you play music or you sing or you, or you're a dancer or you're a painter or is it is really amazing to do that in the confines of your own, you know, room. But there's this really thrilling and enthralling and scary thing to do, then share that with anybody else. And, and that's what I did. It really was a beautiful thing. You know that the name of the book that I wrote was that. And the title came from Beau, who when he was dying said he had lost a lot of his ability to speak because of the aphasia that occurred because the cranial resections and. But we had a little like code together. And he would just say beautiful things. And he didn't mean beautiful things like possessions. He meant beautiful things like family, beautiful things like nature, beautiful things like, like my love of painting and, and. And that's kind of the. Where I've. I've ended up as. My entire focus is on trying to focus on those beautiful things which sometimes can come off as zingers on X. When I'm talking about Don Jr. That's a beautiful thing though.
- [31:54]
Gavin Newsom
We'll get to him later. I think about you and I mean, obviously, you know, and you've talked a lot about it, you've written a lot about it. Your dad spoken so extraordinarily openly about Beau and. But, but you know, growing up and you guys, you know, just the tragedy both of you survived and the bond that you guys had and in the relationship that was, you know, you have brotherly relationships are, you know, often close. But this was a next level relationship in terms of what you guys were forged and in the experiences you both shared. But what was it like just. Just growing up in the spotlight of a father who, you know, even before he's president, as vice president, before he's vice president, was a candidate for president, was a dominant force for decades and decades. Youngest senator in history and couldn't even get sworn in when he was originally elected. But what was it like growing up in a political family? I mean, was it just, you know, peaches and strawberries. It was, you know, fantastic and privilege or was it, you know, man held to a different standard.
- [32:59]
Hunter Biden
How was that growing up now? You know, growing up in. I always say that, that I. In part because of my dad, but also in part because of the state of Delaware. You know, Delaware is a small place and I think it's population just, you know, south of a million still right now, even, you know, smaller. 1972, when that first got elected, probably around 600,000 or so. And by virtue of that, like, you know, my dad was Joe to everybody and by virtue of the accident when my, my mom and that my brother and I were in when my mom and my sister were killed, is that the whole kind of state, you know, adopted us and we had you know, literal, you know, everybody was an aunt and uncle, which was a beautiful thing. And so Delaware always felt like family and felt like home. And with the same kind of treatment, like if I got pulled over by a cop for speed and the cop didn't go, well, Mr. Biden will let you off this time. They said, your dad's going to kick your ass. I can't wait till I see him down at the train station. And so that we didn't grow up in D.C. you know, I said something the other day. I said, you know, my, the way in which they treated dad at the end of 2024, after the debate, I said is part, the reason was he was never a part of that elite insider DC press that somebody said, you know, a lot of people said, well, that's the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard. You're trying to tell me that somebody that spent 50 years in Washington, D.C. that was chairman of the Foreign Relations Committee, that was a vice president, that was a president, wasn't inside D.C. and what I wanted to say is that, well, you don't know DC if you don't know that. My dad went home every day, and that means something. He did not show up at the Georgetown cocktail parties. He was not at the, you know, the, the Aronson's house on Sunday with the other Supreme Court justices. And, you know, I mean, like, there is a. And I know that world because I lived there for myself for a while, which he never did. And, and so for that reason, my childhood was, was, was normal. And as much as it possibly could be, even though dad was United States Senator and, you know, now did we get to do some cool stuff? Yeah, I mean, we used to go down on the train and hang out with my dad anytime that we wanted to in the Senate. And, and, you know, which was one of the most incredible. I love the Senate. I love the history of those buildings, and I love being there to, to watch. And also because of my mom's death, a lot of the old, like, really names nobody will remember now except in their home states. But like Mike Mansfield and, and, and Danny Inoue, who is my hero. And, you know, and the list goes on. Teddy Kennedy took us under their wing, which was incredibly privileged thing to do. I got to meet men and women that I think embodied Bob Dole, you know, who was an acerbic guy, but he loved me. I mean, me and Bo, and we got to go in the cloak room and do things and see that and see history unfold. And it was an incredible childhood from that perspective. And what I learned in that is that politics done nobly is a noble thing. And. And I really believe that. And I think everybody goes, ah, you know, politics. I don't like politics. I don't do politics. I think it's such a cop out because, like, you know, because the truth of the matter is, is that the only way that we can sustain a constitutional republic and this democracy is if we engage in politics. It doesn't mean that we have to engage in no holds barred partisanship where it's a zero sum game, but we have to engage in politics. And my dad was the master of finding a way through legislatively with people that no one would have thought that he could have done that. I mean, and for instance, the, you know, like pepfar, the President's Emergency Plan for AIDS Relief. I mean, if it were not for my dad, with Jesse Helms being able to bring him on board for that, that would have never gotten done. And all the credit goes to, you know. Well, by the way, as you and I both know, all the credit goes to Bono and Bobby Shriver, which is true. Yeah.
- [38:07]
Brandon Kyle Goodman
Happy Pride from the Outspoken Podcast Network. All month long and all year round, we're celebrating being loud, proud, and always original. It's me, Brandon Kyle Goodman, host of the podcast tell me Something Messy. Check out my show for unfiltered takes on dating, relationships, and adulting.
- [38:24]
Gavin Newsom
The more you get comfortable with someone,
- [38:25]
Hunter Biden
the more their real self comes out. They're gonna be gross.
- [38:27]
Brandon Kyle Goodman
What's the grossest thing about a man burping?
- [38:29]
Hunter Biden
Shut it down.
- [38:30]
Brandon Kyle Goodman
Listen to High Key for the best pop culture takes. And there are no girls on the Internet. For all your tech news. For your favorite celebrity kikis, check out outlaws with T.S. madison. Wait, so Luke was the son of Vader? Yeah. And Vader was turned by RuPaul?
- [38:45]
Hunter Biden
Yep.
- [38:46]
Brandon Kyle Goodman
Well, somebody turned into some old, old, old witch. Learn to love yourself unapologetically with bff Black Fat Femme. And start your day with intention with Waking up with Ryan. Coming in July. Celebrate Pride with the Outspoken Network on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Open your free iHeartRadio app. Search Pride and listen.
- [39:07]
Hunter Biden
Now this is Saigon, the story of
- [39:10]
Joseph Sherman
my family and of the country that shaped us.
- [39:13]
Hunter Biden
The United States will not stand by and allow any power, however great, take over another country. From iHeart podcasts, Saigon, please allow me
- [39:23]
Gavin Newsom
to introduce Joseph Sherman.
- [39:24]
Hunter Biden
You don't think I'm serious about a free Vietnam? I should stop talking so much.
- [39:28]
Gavin Newsom
I like hearing you talk.
- [39:30]
Hunter Biden
One city, a divided country and the war that tore America apart. This is for Vietnam. I've taken a hit from Japanese brand. They're pouring petrol all over him. He's holding matches.
- [39:44]
Gavin Newsom
I'm on a landmine.
- [39:46]
Hunter Biden
For freedom. Let's get out. Freedom for Vietnam. Saigon. Starring Kelly Marie Tran and Rob Benedict. Sting. Here's madness. The world should hear about this. There's a fire coming to this country and it's going to burn out everything. Listen to Saigon on the iHeartRadio FM, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.
- [40:08]
Joseph Sherman
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- [41:07]
Hunter Biden
The R B tour, starring Usher Raymond and Chris Brown, uniting two of R B's defining hitmakers, Chris Brown and Usher Raymond get tickets now@livenation.com but that, that, that was my childhood, you know, what
- [41:26]
Gavin Newsom
was it, what was it like, Hunter, when you, I mean, it. It must have been radically different as vice president, meaning all of a sudden now it's Secret Service. Different level of scrutiny.
- [41:37]
Hunter Biden
Yeah, you know, completely different.
- [41:39]
Gavin Newsom
Was that, I mean, was that, did that. Was that more of a shock of the system or was it, you know, because of all those reps and because of your deeper understanding of, you know, the ways of, of, you know, within that corridor, at least of D.C. no, the hallways.
- [41:53]
Hunter Biden
It was, it was a radical difference and not one that I was very comfortable with. The pomp and circumstance of it and is. It can be intoxicating, I think at first and, and, and then it can be very overwhelming when you, you're. You fully Understand that you're. You're very much not particularly as the son, the second son of the Vice President of the United States States. It's like you're not. You're not in. You're not. You're not, you know, like, in the mix, you know what I mean? With the understandable assumption from people on the outside that somehow that, you know, that you are. And. And I think one of the mistakes that. That I made is that I. I stayed in D.C. the girls were in school. By that time, we had been in Delaware. I'd moved back down to D.C. because I had started my law firm. I tried to commute like Bo did.
- [42:53]
Gavin Newsom
Yeah.
- [42:53]
Hunter Biden
But I had taken a. A job as adjunct professor at Georgetown University's master's program in the School of Foreign Service, because at the time, I was the chairman of the board of the World Food Program, US and so I was traveling all over the world at, like, going to hot spots like Lebanon and Beirut during the Syrian refugee crisis and Typhoon Haiyan and all these things. And I was teaching at Georgetown, and I had my business, and the idea of commuting back and forth just became too much for me. As I always said to my dad, I said, when I'm late to a meeting, people leave. When you're late to a meeting, they wait. And it was a mistake on my part, though, because I really don't dislike D.C. but the. The. But it's a company town. It's very much a company town. And everything is about, you know, proximity to power, and. And people are not. Are not shy about it. And it just. It. It kind of saps your soul to. To a certain degree, you know, I mean, that was my experience. And again, though, is like, what an honor, like, to be able to say what it's like inside the vice president's residence. Yeah, like. Like, who gets to say that? And I don't like. Or to be able to even have remotely a criticism of being able to stay over at your dad's house. And it happened to be the. The White House, of course. Like, I only stayed in the. I was only in the White House probably 40 nights because we were out with the. In. In the great state of California, which, by the way, I will tell you this. I've had so many people say, when are you coming home? And I say to them, are you out of your mind?
- [44:41]
Gavin Newsom
There we go. There we go.
- [44:42]
Hunter Biden
I wake up every day, it's 75 degrees and sunny, and I'm looking out at the Pacific Ocean, and I. You know, and I'm, I'm going to lunch in the Hollywood Hills and I think, like, where would you ever want to live other than maybe, you know, a couple hours north of there? I mean, I, it's amazing. But anyway, the, it was tough. Not tough in the sense of like, oh, it was a hardship, but it just wasn't my style. And, and anyway, you know, kind of all fell apart at one point after Beau died. So.
- [45:21]
Gavin Newsom
Yeah, and then you started, I mean, that's when the, the, the, the, this sort of spiral of addiction started to take shape. You'd have your best friend, your father's devastated, you know, you know, everybody, you know, people even. Yeah, yeah. It's when the. I mean, forgive me, but now I'm looking back, just. That was the time. Obviously the marriage came to an end as well.
- [45:42]
Hunter Biden
Yeah, exactly. All. All almost simultaneously. And it was, I was, I was adrift. I was totally drift. And I say this not for the shock value of it. I was trying to commit suicide, but I didn't have the courage to do it in a way that would have been immediate and final. When I first smoked crack, it was a conscious choice. I'm going to do the single thing that is probably the most destructive thing that I can do. And, and I walked out of a, of a, of a rehabilitation center at outpatient program that I had been in for a period of time because everybody was worried to death for me and, and whole long story, but I, they wouldn't let me back in the program. And then I walked to Lincoln park, which was, you know, about two blocks from this program. And I knew a woman that had been, you know, I'd known her because I worked in the area for, you know, worked or lived in the area for 20 years. And they, everybody called her Bicycles and she was crack addict, and everybody knew she was crack addict and she was funny as. And she, And I walked up to her and said, can I buy some crack? And she said, sure. And that was the. And then, you know, that was, it became a, at that time, a three year odyssey like no other. Yeah.
- [47:21]
Gavin Newsom
And for you, you know, and you can imagine for people, I'll speak for myself, but I imagine millions of others just to hear you, especially, you know, I mean, on the Candace Owen podcast, to just say it, own it and say, quote, unquote, yeah, I was a crackhead, which is a hell of a thing to say is what was said about you. But your willingness to just own that again.
- [47:47]
Hunter Biden
Yeah.
- [47:47]
Gavin Newsom
Is that, I mean, was there a moment when it just. You're like, you know, and I keep going back to this question because it's a, it's a hell of a statement just to, to, you know, to, to claim something. Talk about courage.
- [48:02]
Hunter Biden
Yeah.
- [48:02]
Gavin Newsom
And humility in that respect.
- [48:06]
Hunter Biden
So unlike most people that are, you know, publicly humiliated because of something they've done, something they've said, that or, you know, whatever it may be, justifiably so or, or unfairly is that it didn't happen in a drip, drip. For me, it all happened at once. All the pictures were out, all 130,000 emails that were stolen, all 30,000 text messages, all, you know, 98,000 photographs and videos, every voicemail that I'd ever left, anybod, they had hacked my icloud and several devices, including a laptop, including another laptop that was stolen in Las Vegas, including a phone. And by the way, this isn't like conjecture on my part. They all, it's all out there. They all that each one of these people that participated in this operation, they ended up getting in a fight with each other.
- [49:07]
Gavin Newsom
And who, like, who got what and Hunter who. I mean, for those that aren't, aren't familiar, I mean, who are the. Who was it? This. I mean, there was a lot of conversation of Russian disinformation. We. I talked earlier about Bannon and, you know, obviously.
- [49:21]
Hunter Biden
Yeah, Rudy, So, you know that there's this whole thing about the, the, the, this idea that, that when those 40 intelligence officers wrote that this has all the hallmarks of Russian disinformation. And, you know, Twitter, you know, you know, Twitter sphere kind of in maga is, you know, like, you lied to us. This is, you know, the laptop was real. The laptop, and I keep saying it is all a red herring. Is that what the, what those 40 intelligence officials were talking about is that they were talking about an ongoing Russian operation that was identified by the Justice Department under Donald Trump that involved a guy named Andre Derkach, Constantine Kulik Telezhenko, a guy named Dmitry Firtash, who Rudy Giuliani was taking information from, literally dossiers. He filmed it on Oan. He did a documentary in real time with him and Lev Parnas and Igor Fruman and about searching for my laptop that was being offered for sale inside of Ukraine and Russia and Austria by a guy named Dmitry Firtash. That all was happening before the laptop repair shop guy was a twinkle in Rudy Giuliani's eye. Okay. And what happened was, is that the only thing that the laptop proved, quote, unquote, laptop, hard drive, icloud hack Whatever you want to call it, the only thing it proved is that I was a degenerate crackhead doing degenerate crackhead things. And. And. And when I say that, all consensual things, you know, because what happened next is this is I did the New Yorker interview right in 2019, right when I got sober, I got a call from Adam Intos from the New Yorker. And I love the New Yorker. And I mean, when I was a kid, I mean, I. I always thought that I would be able to be a poet and, and, and have my art, my po Yorker. And so. And when. And the only reason I took his call was because of that. And I ended up making one of the best decisions of my life because Adam is a really fine writer, and he listened. And the story ostensibly started about Burisma, and it ended up being about the fact that I was deep into it and coming out of a deep addiction. And that came out in July of 2019. And the first call that he got was from Steve Bannon, who said, you m effer, you scooped us. Because that was their plan. What they were going to do is they were going to release all of the images from the laptop of me, you know, in compromising sexual positions and. And, you know, you know, people taking pictures of me with a crack pipe in my mouth and things like that. And that was going to be the October surprise. But I took it away from them. And so what they did is they concocted this other thing. They held onto it all the way up until October of 2020. And in the meantime, what had been happening is all of those Dimitri Firtash, Konstantin Kulik, Telizenko, all of the Andre Durkats had all been sanctioned by the US Government, by the Trump administration, for running a election interference operation inside of the United States, because they were feeding to a guy named Alexander Smirnoff a bribery charge that Hunter Biden took a bribe on behalf of his father from the Ukrainians, and that's what Rudy did. So Rudy walks out onto the Newcastle County Courthouse steps in Delaware, and he does two things. He said that this is evidence of criminal activity and Hunter Biden and is being paid by the Ukrainians like the government, and the Chinese, like the government, of which neither one of those things is even remotely true. And he said, and this contains evidence of inappropriate images of children, which obviously is not true, which is like, beyond. But you know what it is? It's the oldest trick in the book. It literally was started by the Nazis, and Putin then deployed it in 2000 Rachel Maddow talks about this all the time. It's called eliminationist rhetoric. If they can get anyone to believe that you're a pedophile, then the ability for them to get. It's. Say they go out and they say that it doesn't bear any resemblance to anything. If 10% of the. Of their community can believe that, then 60% can believe that you're capable of bribery, 70% think that you are. You're capable of undue influence. I mean, and so that's what they did. And it's like everybody else dismisses that part about it. But then when you had the New York Post come along and they literally all. All they did, didn't matter what the headline was or what it was about. It was a picture of me in a motel room smoking a pipe or, or. And with my shirt off with a woman that was blurred out. And it's like, this is your degenerate. And tell me that he's not also capable of, you know, you know, taking a bribe. And. And that's what they did. And to great effect. You know, I mean, people forget is that I had a. My criminal prosecution was completely sewn up after four different US Attorneys had investigated Crim Tax at the Department of Justice, Main justice, the FBI, the irs, the irs, Criminal Investigations Division. And. And they'd all come to the conclusion that I had not committed a felony offense in any way. And I was getting a. I entered into a plea agreement in which I had. I was going to plead guilty to two misdemeanors, which were failure to file my taxes on time because I paid all my taxes with penalties and interest, and a diversion agreement because they say that I had purchased a gun at a time when I should have known that I was addicted to a controlled substance, which, by the way, is the correct thing, is the correct result. And so I signed that agreement, and they signed the agreement. And so I have a signed agreement with the U.S. attorney in the State of Delaware, approval with Crim Tax, completely independent from Main justice or anybody in Main justice making a decision. And I go to court and they blow it up. They bring in these two prosecutors from Baltimore that had never been a part of the case. And after. And there were four amicus briefs sent into the court, not as a. Before any decision was made that said, like, from the Heritage foundation, everybody that, you know, a list of 4,000 crimes I had committed, Fox News and the Murdoch empire and everybody in the Magazphere, like, went full force for 46 days, which is Totally unheard of that I would have been had a plea agreement and not be arraigned on that agreement within 72 hours. But they delayed it. And when it came to the court, the court said, Mr. Biden, you have an immunity clause in here which is normal for a plea agreement. Of course you don't sign a plea agreement without an immunity clause because you don't want the government to come back and say oh no, we decided that. And it sounds to me like the US Attorney is saying that that immunity would not apply to X, Y or Z. And I said well it's, it's a signed agreement. We're all, we're done here, your honor, like this is over. And she said, well, I don't think so. And she, and they, and they purposely blew up the agreement completely and then they charged me with things that they've never charged anybody before with. But that was the whole kind of trajectory of, of all of this. And your original question though was this long lost in my, my 56 year old brain and I don't know if I'm going to be able to get back to it.
- [58:11]
Gavin Newsom
No, but, but Hunter, what I mean was it just the, the, just the, the external political pressure that, that, the, the surround sound, that sort of grievance, the weaponization of that grievance against you, your dad, that was coming out of the, of, you know, Newsmax1American News, Fox Murdoch Inc. I mean it was just 24,7 that just created the pressure on the Justice Department to reconsider or the judge. I mean why did that, why the sudden shift after plea agreement period? It was just political pressure.
- [58:40]
Hunter Biden
Pure, pure, pure political pressure. Yeah, you know, they literally the, there were so many death threats against the US the Assistant US Attorney who was a 20 year veteran at the US Attorney's office in Delaware for entering into the agreement and the U.S. attorney that she had to go into hiding. And they brought in these two guys from Baltimore, the same two guys that, that you know, prosecuted the, the Democratic mayor in the state and city of Baltimore and, and the, the district attorney and like they, you know, they were riding high on, you know, the, this thing. And, and, and that's exactly why. And the U.S. attorney got just absolutely excoriated until the point where he then, you know, ripped up the plea agreement, which you can't do. But we're, and, and, and applied for, didn't apply. He said he's going to be special counsel, which is unheard of by the way, that a sitting U.S. attorney was also a special counsel. It's in complete violation of the statute as written. And so he becomes special counsel. And before the statute of limitations is up on both of those things, they charged me with, you know, six felonies. And like, you know, what's, what, what are you going to do is I say to everybody, is that the idea that the chances of beating the federal government, you know, in a, in a criminal case are really, really, really slim. I mean, that's why they have, you know, 95% conviction rates. The full force of, of the Justice Department when it descends upon you is an awesome thing to witness and, but
- [60:26]
Gavin Newsom
it's impossible to, to hear this and just, I mean, it's, I mean, most folks listening or watching know this, but it's important to remind everybody this was happening when your dad is President of the United States. This is happening at Justice Department with his hand picked Attorney General. And yet your father continues to be criticized for tipping the scale of justice and weaponizing the Department of Justice against, quote, unquote, his enemies. Meanwhile, his own son is being prosecuted along these lines after a plea agreement was already signed.
- [61:05]
Hunter Biden
Where I'm from, what you say something like that is, you can't make this up.
- [61:12]
Gavin Newsom
I'm glad you, you put it in terms all of us can understand. You can't. Yeah, exactly.
- [61:17]
Hunter Biden
But by the way, dad gets so mad at me, he's like, you've got to stop cussing. You got to stop cussing.
- [61:22]
Gavin Newsom
Well, I never heard you cuss like you did with, with Andrew when you did that first podcast.
- [61:26]
Hunter Biden
That was double man, by the way. All earned. All earned. Yeah.
- [61:34]
Gavin Newsom
And don't think I'm going to let you go without getting to a little bit of those more contemporary topics that you triggered you back then. Not that I'm here to trigger you
- [61:41]
Hunter Biden
necessarily, but no, no, I'm not triggered
- [61:43]
Gavin Newsom
by it, but it's, but a lot of it is worthy of some of some additional commentary, but it's a good segue. Then just the Department of Justice, this notion of weaponization, of course we've seen now Trump back in office. Your father feeling. I don't want to get down the rabbit hole of your father shifting his own mindset as it relates to the pardo at the end of the day where he, you know, he was sort of holding the line against it and ultimately realized on the other side of this is okay. Is, yeah.
- [62:14]
Hunter Biden
Is this, is this, is this is another thing that I really feel that if I sat in front of a lot of these people that are an outsized voice within A conservative communities. There is no more maggot in my opinion.
- [62:30]
Gavin Newsom
Okay.
- [62:31]
Hunter Biden
And if it is, it's a very small percentage of what used to be called the Republican Party. But there is still a genuine conservative movement out there. And who's going to take the mantle of the intellectual forefront of that? I don't know. But I can't imagine sitting, not sitting in front of Tucker Carlson looking him in the eye and saying, Tucker, my dad said that he wouldn't give me a pardon and he was absolutely 100% genuine about it when he said he wouldn't give me a pardon. And he said it at a moment in time where he thought that he was going to be the next President of the United States and there would be a Justice Department that would treat me fairly and there would be a court system that would not be intimidated by a tyrant that would not have an attorney General that is willing, that is to own personal attorney or at that time, if you remember correctly, is that Matt Gaetz was going to become the Attorney General of the United States. Cash Patel is the head of FBI. I would have been under the supervision of the, of the Bureau of Federal Prisons and Probation. The idea that they would not have violated. I would not look for everything that I was convicted for. The idea that I would have gone to jail is 00 under any circumstances. None. I was a first time offender. I had never like non violent victimous crimes. On both of them. I paid all my taxes with penalties and interest. Anybody that was in my position would have been in a payment plan with the IRS through a settled a settlement. There's over $1.6 billion in taxes owed by over a million people that make over a million dollars a year in the United States right now. Every year that have owed for over five years. By the way, I'm going to win the gun case. It's going to get overturned in the, in the Supreme Court, I believe. Well unfortunately in the Hamani case that is about to come out. Right. So in a, in a, whether it was a Biden administration or whoever, by the way, if it was in a Mitt Romney administration, if it was In a John McCain administration, if it was in anybody that was an actual Republican and not a tyrant or a fascist, my dad would not have pardoned me because I could fend for myself in that system. I could take the lumps, I could continue on and I would be okay. But the idea that you would leave anyone, particularly your son, think about it from that respect, literally all your fourth amendment rights are gone. Search and seizure is no longer a constitutional right that you have an advantage of if you're a convicted felon. The ability for a probation officer at any time to enter your house without a warrant, to go into your room, to do anything that they want to do, to violate you in any way they choose at any time of day or night. And it would have been like having a gun to my family's head for the next four years at least. And so that's why he pardoned me. I mean, it's a really incredibly rational decision, and it was a really difficult decision. And, you know, how proud of my dad I am is the fact of the matter is he chose me over his legacy because no matter what you say, that's going to be the one of the first things that is written about him. And that's how, you know my. I say to people, that's how much, you know, my dad loves me.
- [65:51]
Gavin Newsom
No, come on.
- [65:52]
Hunter Biden
He chose me over his political legacy for. For that reason.
- [65:57]
Gavin Newsom
I was with him the day you were indicted. We had a press conference out here in San Francisco. I was driving with him, the bear. And I'll just. That's a private story I'll share with you. Him talking about you, and it cut me off. We were talking about something else, and he was not thinking about anything else except you and that day, understandably. And he was trying to indulge me and said some things, man, that for, you know, have hardwired me, imprinted on me. That's where my loyalty will always be with your dad. Just the love he has for you and, you know, forgive me just as a parent. Anyway, man, so I just. That's you. You know that. But boy, you know, just to be there at that moment and to hear that expression and the depth of that was. Was as a father and as someone who lost. My father was. Yeah, Pronounced brother. But let me just look in. It segues to, you know, just to the, you know, all that shit you took 24. 7, surround sound, weaponization, all the, you know, all of that. And here we are, fast forward with the Department of Justice. We can, you know, we don't even need to. We can just blow past the January 6th stuff. Obviously, this 1.776 billion dollar weaponization fund and. And all the mishigash there. But, you know, come on, man. You brought up junior Eric Kushner's Albania wit coughs, border peace meme coins, ufc. I mean, you were tweeting about that today. Now, there's a coin related to the USC we've got, you know, forget the days of cologne. It's Bibles. And it's, you know, first lady Bibles. Not just Trump Bibles. You've got sneakers. We've got phones. I mean, this grift is the likes of which we've. You can't even. Can't make this. Back to this. You can't make this. They ruin it all and everything you went through. Let's talk about that.
- [67:50]
Hunter Biden
Yeah, they literally. They, they. They ruin it all. Like, you know what I like ufc. I mean, I like watching it. They ruin it. They ruin it. It makes it hard now. Do you know what I mean? It literally does. Because everybody's got to choose a side. They have to put it on the goddamn South Lawn. And I'm in the midst of the 250th anniversary. I mean, I can't understand why Dana White. I don't have a T against Dana White. No, but what the fuck, man? Like, it's your brand. Like, how are you doing this? How are you doing this? How is this appropriate? How is this appropriate? And I just don't get crypto. Let me take you to crypto. I was red pilled a long time ago as a release to bitcoin. I don't care. I'm not you meme coins. If you talk to anybody between the age of 18 and 35, meme token mean culture and tokens are something that they fully, completely understand. And you know what? There was a lot of promise in that. A lot of freedom in that. A lot of an idea in which your level of attention could be something in which you could monetize, that you could do microtransactions and create communities with. They've totally distorted it and made it a total grift. I mean, look at bitcoin. I love the idea of bitcoin. Not coming from. I don't own any bitcoin. I don't. I don't have two nickels to rub together. But the fact of the matter is, is that you have a. I went. Sorry, sorry to get off on this tangent. When I was the chairman of the board of the World food Program, the U.S. uN World Food Program, largest humanitarian organization in the world. I ran the US part of it, okay, which was responsible for 60% of its budget, which we went from when I was chairman from $1.6 billion a year to $2.4 billion a year in which we were able to raising. Come out of. At. At a US interest, fed 80 million people in 73 different countries on A daily basis, okay, So I would go to these hotspots. So when there was a typhoon or was a natural disaster, whether there's a war and we would, and, and World Food program is always the first on the ground because they have all the airlift of the UN and so they bring in everybody else. And so it was critical. And one of the pieces was, is that when you bring in refugees into these places is that they cannibalize the local economy, which is usually really unstable at the time anyway. And so you bring in all of this free food and all of a sudden then you are these subsistence farmers and these local shops and things that nobody's going to them anymore. And so what we wanted to do is we wanted to bring money into the communities, into the economy and rather than making the, the rest of refugees are drain on it is that they're actually adding to it. And we had to figure out a way to be able to do microtransactions that could be, go through cell phones. And it became, the pilot program was incredibly successful. And you realize like in places like Kibera and which is the largest former refugee slum in the world in Nairobi and it is a entire working economy in which you can go into a shack that is the size of a closet to buy a fantasy soda with a flip phone and for the equivalent of 17 cents. That's what cryptocurrency is. The, the true promise of it outside of a banking system in which you have to go through VAT or you have to go through, you know, like by the way, like do I trust that? Or Jamie Dimon, you know what I mean? Like, you know what I mean? Like what's the I, I, I. And so anyway, my point is, is they sully everything. They sully everything, they tarnish everything. I mean he made 37,000 trades in the first quarter of this year. 37,000 trades. More than most multi billion dollar hedge fund funds make in a single quarter. And I'm talking about like, I mean like he is a hyper trader and he's trading stocks in large numbers of companies like Dell and Nvidia and Apple and what she's canning out billion dollar contracts to. And by the way, those trades directly coincide with whatever action that he's taking. And we all sit here and go like, well, you know, and sorry to do this, but I, I have too much fun doing it. And you know, Jake Brick Tamlin Tapper sits and goes but you know what? Jill Biden just wrote a book that said that she believed in her husband. And isn't that a crime? And it's like, what are you all talking about? Excuse my language. Sorry. He's gonna kill me. I swear to God.
- [72:42]
Gavin Newsom
I told him.
- [72:43]
Hunter Biden
I promised I would, I would, I would try to stop cussing, but you know, it. To your point, it's, it's, it's. I think, you know, it's Steve Bannon thing though. Okay, Is that. And you know this, and, and you're about to feel it in a way that's even more intense, which doesn't seem possible. I promise you it is. Than. Than it has been, is a fire hose of falsehoods. They are just opening the spigot and it becomes so overwhelming that even a. A captured press doesn't have to. You know, it, it makes it hard on any of them. I mean, what, what do you focus on? Do you focus on the, the gold shoes? Or do you focus on the new coin that they just released? Or do you focus on the 620 million dollar Pentagon loan, largest ever made to any single company in the history of the United States of America to Don Jr. For a startup company about rare earth minerals. And they say that I wasn't qualified to be on a board. I mean, Jesus Christ. I mean, how that, how in the world. Jared Kushner, $6.2 billion from Gulf State, all of it from Gulf State. $80 million in fees annually at a minimum before you get to carry on that investment. And he's taken it from people in which he's negotiating a war on behalf of the United States of America that nobody wanted with Iran, that their interests are directly tied to Eric Trump, a $1.5 billion Israeli drone company that made its mark in Gaza with their drones, selling in, going public and selling into the DoD because they merged with one of Eric's, you know, like, golf companies or something. I don't know. I mean, I don't even know what the hell is, but they're open about it. They're standing there ringing the bell at the Wall street, you know, they're not on the front page. And meanwhile, New York Times had me on the front page for, I don't know, seemed like 4680 Days street with, you know, Ken Vogel doing these, you know, writing long, long form books about, you know, whether or not the influence, you know, what they're talking about is 85% of that. None of it had to do with any time when my dad was president. Any of the business deals that they're talking about all happened when my dad was neither president nor vice president. This whole 10% for the big Guy thing. I didn't write that email. Some jackass wrote it to me trying to get me to be part of a deal while my dad was out of office. Even if it was true, which it was not, there's no. There's not even anything unethical about it. But all of a sudden, it becomes the tagline, and people catch on to it. And, you know, if you're Ken Vogel or. Or Peter Baker or, you know, these guys is like this. This false gospel of balance in the media is just. It's like, you know, a scale has two pans, all right? And when you put a weight on one side, the other side goes up. And that's a fact. And we're supposed to believe that it's always an even weight, and it's not. There are facts and there is truth, and the truth is they are more corrupt than any single administration of all the competent. And I'm talking about Andrew Johnson, corrupt more than Andrew Johnson. I mean, go back and read your history, and I've read it. No one even remotely comes close. My line is, is if they ever leave the White House, they're going to steal the copper pipes.
- [76:39]
Gavin Newsom
Well, he's already got the Declaration of Independence in the Oval, so I'm not sure he distinguishes whether or not it's ours or his.
- [76:48]
Hunter Biden
Yeah, and by the way, he doesn't even know what it is. Remember when he pointed to it and he said, you know, this. I forget. He, like, referred to it as the Constitution. I mean, he really doesn't. He doesn't know the significance of that document and what it means to the American people. Just like he doesn't know the significance of what it means to. But at that South Lawn, what it means to me, what it means to a normal person that has never been able to walk on, that had never had the privilege of walking out those doors to that South Lawn and thinking about, that's where the helicopter took off with, you know, with Lyndon Johnson when he left. That's where, you know, that's the same lawn that Abraham Lincoln. There's the tree that Teddy Roosevelt planted, and he's putting a fucking cage and he's putting on a show. Bread and circus. Bread and circus. And by the way, that's all it is to him. The gold, the Rose Garden, the Oval Office. It's bread and circus. He knows what he's doing. He knows that people are absolutely enthralled by it. And again, what it is, it's audacity versus authenticity. And I am, and I'm certain, you know, it can only last so long. The question is, is what are we going to have to rebuild with? That's really what I think.
- [78:12]
Gavin Newsom
And hunter to that, you know, and again, I'm mindful of our time, you know, the Democratic Party. You made a bleak reference earlier in the conversation about the party. I mean, what is, what is to you, the Democratic Party? What is it? Is there a party? What is the party? Is it the party? Is your dad? Is it. Is it Bill and Hillary? Is it Barack?
- [78:32]
Hunter Biden
I would be interested party, Nancy. Yeah, it's all of it. Schumer. It's all of it. It's the one thing that I always say. It's that Will Rogers line. I'm not a part of. I'm not a member of any organized party. I'm a Democrat. And that's so true. And you know it is. This is that I've never known in my life. And you've been doing this your whole life. When have we ever had a Democratic Party before we had a nominee? Until we get a nominee, until we get somebody deleted, we do not have a Democratic Party. It's never existed. It's never happened before. And you know why? It's because we always are trying to find a way and it looks like absolute chaos. But I tell you what, when we get a nominee, we'll have a direction. Take 2020. Everybody sits around and particularly these guys that I know that you're friends with and I'm not going to name names and I'm not friends friends with, but I do. You don't want to be enemies of. You don't want me to just say as you're so smart and they're all the ones that, you know, the reason. They're the reason that Barack Obama won.
- [79:36]
Gavin Newsom
So you're going, right? You're hitting Axelrod right now.
- [79:39]
Hunter Biden
Oh, yeah. I mean, he's one. He wrote the speeches, he did this, he did that. You know, he's, you know, the, the nominee, you know, in 2020 would never be Joe Biden. It's never gonna. Joe Biden would never win. He's, by the way, it wasn't because he was too old. It was because, you know, you needed, you know, you know, new, fresh blood and this, that and the other thing. And, and his policies are old and he doesn't, he doesn't understand Washington anymore. He'll never be able to get anything done. He's delusional. He's living in a In a time that's gone by, you know what my dad was? My dad was Joe Biden. And everybody knew Joe Biden. He was the most authentic man in politics at that time, 100%. Joe Biden may have misspoken, but very rarely the truth of the matter was his gap was his was, was everyone else's truth. It didn't matter what he said. And everybody would go, but you know what? It was never a lie. It was never fake, and he was never pretending. And that's why he got 81 million votes. Because you know what? Joe Biden knew Joe Biden. What you knew about Joe Biden is this is it. If you are a waitress, let's say, in Green Bay, Wisconsin, and you're raised a Catholic and you're a practicing Catholic, and you work two jobs and your husband worked at the, at one of the auto factories down south of there, okay? And you look at Joe Biden and you, you see all these ads about transgenderism, okay? You know what you knew about Joe Biden was. He's as confused about it as you are. But you know what he also, you knew about Joe Biden is that if he told you that it's not that, that, that we are America and we are diverse enough that we can have a, that this isn't an issue. The issue is whether or not you're going to be able to send your kids to school or if, you know what? If you were a truck driver in Scranton, okay, you're a Teamster in Scranton and you're, you're, you're a pro life, but you're a Democrat in terms of the principles that you have in terms of working man and, you know, union jobs and everything like that. You know what? You know, Joe Biden's not going to shove his religion down your, down your throat or their, the lack thereof. It. That's why he got 81 million votes, because he was one of them and he really was one of them. It wasn't, it wasn't made up. He, you know this, he is that, and they knew that. And that's why he got 7 million more votes than anybody that has ever run for president. Not because he was purely Barack Obama's vice president. Not because people. Look, if it was because people hated Trump so much, then what changed? In four years, 34 felony convictions, a, you know, the EG case, you know, stealing documents from the, you know, classified like people's views didn't change on Trump anymore or less. But he got 81 million votes because of that. He got 81 million votes because my dad believed that everybody should have a fair chance. And you know what that meant in terms of everybody? It meant the people that he even disagreed with. And so they were willing to come out to vote for him for that reason. And I don't know what these guys that are all the smart guys in the room are in terms of. They're not and never will be the leaders of the Democratic Party. You will be, I believe, or whoever wins the nomination. I'm not saying that you're running. I'm not doing any of this, and I'm not doing any of that. I promise you. I'm not putting you in a position, but I'm saying if you do and you win, then you become the leader of the Democratic Party. And people fall in line, just, just like they fell in line with the message of Joe Biden in 2020, and we won by 8 million votes. And so that's what I think about. You know, you're not as panicked, you're
- [83:37]
Gavin Newsom
not as panicked about the Democratic Party brand in that context, that, that it starts to resolve itself as we move through the midterms and then get to the other side.
- [83:47]
Hunter Biden
Yeah, well, you know what I mean, I, I, I, no, I'm not. Because you know what? You know who's a Democrat? Zorahdani. You know who's a Democrat? Graham Platner. You know who's Democrat? Abigail Stamberger. You know who's a Democrat? You know, I mean, I just can keep going down the list. You know who's a Democrat? Aoc. You know who's a Democrat? Bernie Sanders. You know who's a Democrat is James Talrico in Texas. You know who's a Democrat is Javier Becerra in California. You know, I mean, the diversity of the number of people that I just named but all believe in one thing is they believe in a constitutional republic. They believe in a democracy. They believe that people should have a fighting chance. They believe that the billionaire class should not be completely in control of all of the policies that we're making. Now, do I think that we need radical change in leadership once those people get into positions of power? Absolutely. We got to break the cycle of us being beholden to the corporate class in this party. And, you know, and I think that'll happen, but you got to add some of these new voices in there, and, and, and I think it'll benefit us all. I have faith that with some truth and reconciliation in 2028 or even beginning in 2026, now in November that we can stem. Not to stem the tide, but I think that the most incredible changes always occur. This is always the case throughout history. You need to go through the pain. It's just like recovery. I believe that we all need, as a nation be in recovery. And in that recovery, what you realize is that all the pain that you went through is all the power that you have now. I think the country can do the same thing. I truly do believe that.
- [85:40]
Gavin Newsom
The autopsy. What did you make of the whole autopsy?
- [85:44]
Hunter Biden
Well, number one, I think that the criticism of the, of the chairman is so unfair. I mean, I think that he's trying to do a job and I, I mean, he just getting ripped, you know, ripped both ways and backwards and forwards. I, you know, I understand this idea that it is, you know, that, that it's important to do a, you know, an internal review of your process and, and what happened and how you can do better. But why that has to be a, you know, like a, a, a public spectacle. I mean, what a bunch of. What company would ever do that? Like, if you're a company, okay, and you had a goal, and so you know what it is, New Coke, okay, New Coke comes out. It was a spectacular failure, okay? The CEO of Coke didn't, wasn't forced to then go out and say, you know, okay, how did it go so wrong? Well, we're going to go to the market and what we're going to do is we're going to lay, we're going to pull down our pants and we're going to tell you how stupid we were to, you know, to brand ourselves New Coke and, you know, and kill, you know, almost kill this brand. No company's ever expected to do that because it's completely counterproductive to the brand. So all these people calling for like a public lashing, what do they want? You know, it's Gaza, you know, what a bunch of bullshit. It's not just Gaza, it's Israel. No, what a bunch of bullshit. It's not just Israel, you know, it's leadership. It's not. We as Democrats are going to figure it out, but we're only going to figure it out when we find a leader and we find a leader of the party when we end up going through this primary process. And I think then that that leader is going to be determinative on them and their team of people and the people that they bring along to embolden us with a message that I hope includes action and some real radical plans for changing things, reforms. People are Angry people are angry for good reason.
- [87:57]
Gavin Newsom
And I love the tonality. And you've been saying it and I cannot agree with you more in terms of just. We can't pave over the old cow path. We can't be sort of manage the decline more efficiently or effectively. I think people notably and rightfully are demanding something. And you use the word radically, which a. There's a loaded word, but something dramatically different. Let me ask you just.
- [88:21]
Hunter Biden
You can't say it, but I can. Yeah, you can say you're good with that. And that's the beauty, by the way, and that's the completely unfair advantage that I have over you is I like. And I really mean this. It's not fair. It's like I can say it because I don't then have to do it. And, and. But I really. I. I think that. I think people are ready for radical. Yeah. In. In the best sense of the word.
- [88:44]
Gavin Newsom
In the best sense. When's your book coming out? Come on, tell me. You don't. You're not thinking about another book?
- [88:50]
Hunter Biden
Okay. Yeah, no, I am and I've written it and I'm. And I'm. What I'm going to do is I'm going to release it on substack in serial form. How cool is that? Like once a week or once every few days. And so I wrote two books. I want. I basically wrote one book about the, like, the internal experience, like from. From the end of the last book for those like past seven years. And then I wrote another book which is kind of like a. Like a, Like a thriller. Unfortunately, the. The leading characters are like Rudy Giuliani and Steve Bannon, like what was happening in the rooms that I was not in, which is really fascinating and interesting. And I'm going to do that on substack. And I. And, and more than anything, this is what I'm doing is that this organization that I'm working with now, Pete Path El, is their rehab up in. Up in the Hollywood Hills and they have about 40 beds and the two people that run it and are the day to day, Dustin and Glennis, 25 years of recovery between them. They've been to many rehabs as I have, and they're just wonderful people and they do an incredible job and this idea of a free aftercare in, in la, and there's a. There's a. I think a property that we, this incredible couple may donate to us and that's what I really want to build. And then the other thing that I'm doing in la Is. Is around rent, is. Is Boston Universal, which is, you probably know, Boston is a. Boston Universal is the largest tenants rights, Free Tenants rights and homeless prevention group in Southern la. And I'm their development director there. Because I think that there's a real link between people staying in their homes.
- [90:45]
Gavin Newsom
Amen.
- [90:46]
Hunter Biden
Homelessness and addiction. That is not always a straight line one way or another. And so that those are the two things that I'm most focused on.
- [90:54]
Gavin Newsom
I love it. So Substack, you know, reminds me. One of the few things my inheritance from my father was hardly his wit and witticism. It was. It was a few books and, you know, poetry from Yates and. And he said. He did leave me one extraordinary book, which is Pickwick Papers from Dickens. And it was done in pamphlets, how they originally published books. It was done on a monthly basis and you would just wait for the next pamphlet. So you're, you know, you're bringing back a little bit.
- [91:21]
Hunter Biden
Yeah, no, literally, that's how I got the idea of doing it. And John Irving used to talk about that, you know, the, you know, World According to Garp and stuff. He did this whole thing about how Dickens used to write his books and it would come out in serial form. And, you know, there's this thing with substack where like, it's kind of really cool. Like you're waiting for the next chapter, whether it's, you know, every week. It's every week. It won't. There's too many chapters. Yeah, you got end of next year, but I'll do it a little bit faster pace. But I think it'll be really cool.
- [91:56]
Gavin Newsom
I love that. So, last question. I mean, just for all the cynics out there, and by the way, I want you and Tapper to. You guys, if you're going to show up on Candace Owens and you want to be on with Tucker, everyone, you and Tapper have to have it out. I'm looking forward to that. Yeah, but that may not happen.
- [92:11]
Hunter Biden
Yeah, may not.
- [92:15]
Gavin Newsom
It may not. But what to. To the cynics out there and you, you, you. You named Chip Tapper in terms of just, you know, your mom's book and, you know, your dad's coming out with his book later the year. I mean, what do. What do you say? Because I have strong opinions on this, but just in closing, I'd love to hear yours. You know, this idea that somehow it. Once you're. Once, you know, we turn the page on one administration and family, we supposed to just move on and never hear from them again. This Idea that, that they don't have a voice. Yeah. What do you, what do you make of that? Why are the Bidens writing books? Why are they never.
- [92:51]
Hunter Biden
Look, okay, I, this is what I said. Is it like, oh, you know what, what they were going to do is they were going to go and gin up the sneaker factory, the gold sneaker factory in Vietnam, and that business was taken. So they were going to then go into crypto. But, you know, that was a little bit cornered. So they decided on gold plated mobile phones. But dad had a better idea. He thought maybe they could sell Biden branded bibles and that's how they could make a living. All of those things were taken. And so you know what they decided to do? They decided to do what every first lady and president in modern history has done. They both decided to write a book. One has to come out before the other. And so mom went first. And you know who did that also? Michelle and Barack Obama. You know who else did that? Hillary and Bill Clinton, George Bush and the first lady, and George Herbert Walker Bush and I mean, and Barbara Bush and Ronald Reagan and Nancy and I mean, like, what are we talking about here? I mean, it's like, oh, he should. What are they supposed to do other than that, by the way? And I'm really proud of that. You know why, you know, you know, my dad didn't do. He didn't go and join the board of 16 different corporations. My dad decided what he was going to do is he's going to stay true to himself like he'd always done. He had never made a penny off of his, off of being a public servant, other than the salary that he got when he became, when he left the vice presidency. He wrote a book and he had money for the first time in his life. And he bought my mom a little house in Rehoboth Beach Beach, Delaware. That's what he did with it. And now you know what? He's back at his house, the same house that he's been in for 30 years in Wilmington, Delaware with my mom, and he's writing his book. And that's how they are paying the bills and like, and it's great and it's. For them, it's great. But what do they want him to do? What did they think that he should do? Go join the board of Carlisle? No, I'm not, you know, you know, start a, you know, a multinational, you know, think tank organization and fly around the globe. You know, I mean, like, my dad is my dad. He's in Delaware. He's writing a book about the most. His history. Incredible journey from a kid from Scranton, Pennsylvania, that had a stutter, whose dad was a car salesman that became the President of the United States. And I tell you what, the thing about my dad is this. I think that he is unique. Unique as president for just one reason, is that I don't know of any president that I've read about in history. And that in order to. To. To take that job. And this is not a criticism, it is a just. It's a fact. Is that there has to be some level of narcissism. And you. You have to have a. You have to have an outsized ego. To be able to balance that with the level of empathy that my dad had. Yeah, I found was almost unique.
- [96:21]
Gavin Newsom
I love it. I love it.
- [96:22]
Hunter Biden
And. And I'm so proud of him. I'm so proud of them. I'm so proud of my mom. You know, it's not been easy. Cancer is not easy. You know, the way that we left was not easy. And my dad grieves every day for the loss of the opportunity to save this country from what it has to go through right now. And you don't think that we care as a family, more than anybody, more than anybody about this? We have given, not by choice, but by choice, in my respect, not because of anything that I have earned, but this family has given our lives, our whole lives to this. Whatever you think about us, given our. My dad has given his whole adult life to this. Not for personal gain. Not to become a billionaire, not to even become a millionaire, not to make more than the salary that he was paid. Giving his whole life to this. I given up my life for it. You. All of it. They took all of it. And here we are. And you know what? I'm not stepping off the stage for anybody, because more than anything, I want to make my dad proud.
- [97:50]
Gavin Newsom
Well, Hunter, you know this. And I'll just add my voice. You know how proud he is of you, brother. And I'm proud to have had this opportunity to share all this with you and to have this conversation, at least share this time with you. And I'm really just. I'm sorry. So I'm so pleased that you're so willing to be so open and talk so authentically, authentically about your journey and how it attaches, I imagine, to how so many other people are struggling and feeling and thanks for being so raw. Thanks for being here.
- [98:28]
Hunter Biden
Okay, wait. One thing is this. You've heard dad say it a million times. Is I'll come campaign for you or against you, whatever helps most.
- [98:41]
Gavin Newsom
Put his finger in my stomach. Yeah.
- [98:43]
Hunter Biden
And he would say it, and you'd be like, you know, it was. It was silly because of course you'd want him to come out. In my case. It's for real.
- [98:50]
Gavin Newsom
It's for real.
- [98:56]
Hunter Biden
This is an I Heart podcast, Guaranteed human.