And, This Is Michael Savage

Summary

Podcast Summary: This is Gavin Newsom Episode: "And, This Is Michael Savage"

Introduction and Mutual Background

Timestamp: 00:00 – 02:00

In the opening of the episode, Governor Gavin Newsom welcomes radio personality Michael Savage to discuss pressing societal and political issues. Despite being political opposites, both emphasize the importance of civil discourse. Newsom reminisces about his long-standing acquaintance with Savage, mentioning past interactions involving prominent figures like Donald Trump and Newsom’s father, Judge Newsom.

Notable Quote:

Gavin Newsom (00:19): "We're supposedly political polar opposites, which we probably are. However, as I say on my TV show, you don't have to like my politics to like me."

Alternative Health and Nutrition

Timestamp: 04:22 – 12:14

The conversation delves into Michael Savage's background in alternative health and nutrition. Savage discusses his interdisciplinary PhD from Berkeley in Nutritional Ethnomedicine, highlighting the challenges he faced in academia due to racial quotas. He critiques current figures like RFK Jr., whom he views as lacking the depth and experience to lead the alternative health movement effectively.

Notable Quote:

Michael Savage (05:06): "Unfortunately... White males need not apply. I was rejected from every position I applied for. And I was told point blank that we can't hire you because we have to fill quotas."

Immigration and Border Control

Timestamp: 12:06 – 17:39

Both Newsom and Savage discuss California's immigration issues. Savage emphasizes the importance of borders, language, and culture as foundational elements of a nation. He criticizes what he perceives as the Democratic Party's failure to address immigration effectively, leading to abuses in the asylum system and illegal voting. Newsom acknowledges the complexities of immigration policy and the need for comprehensive federal solutions while supporting state-level initiatives to manage border security.

Notable Quote:

Michael Savage (16:39): "Borders, language and culture... how hard is that? People understand."

Climate Change and Environmental Policy

Timestamp: 22:39 – 32:22

The discussion shifts to climate change, where Savage expresses skepticism about mainstream scientific consensus. He references the Vostok ice core samples to argue that historical carbon dioxide levels followed temperature changes, not the other way around, suggesting a natural climate cycle. Newsom counters by highlighting recent extreme weather events in California as evidence of climate change, emphasizing proactive measures the state is taking to mitigate environmental impacts.

Notable Quote:

Michael Savage (28:26): "The science doesn't support it... We had a period of great flora enveloping the Earth, which produced a great deal of carbon dioxide."

San Francisco and Homelessness

Timestamp: 43:45 – 47:44

Savage shares a personal anecdote about witnessing public indecency in San Francisco, using it to highlight the city's homelessness crisis. He advocates for removing the homeless population from streets through coercive measures. Newsom responds by outlining California's recent efforts, including strengthening conservatorship laws and establishing Care Court to address mental health and substance abuse issues. He cites historical reductions in homelessness during his tenure as Mayor of San Francisco and ongoing state initiatives to provide support and accountability.

Notable Quote:

Michael Savage (45:30): "There is a solution to the homeless problem, which is end it. Well, you build camps for them in places outside cities and you give them the care that they need against their will."

Taxation and Economic Policies

Timestamp: 17:37 – 21:54

The topic of taxation is explored, with Savage criticizing California's high state taxes, particularly targeting the wealthy. He expresses frustration over what he perceives as punitive taxation policies that discourage success and work ethic. Newsom defends California’s tax structure, noting that middle-class taxpayers pay less compared to other states and asserts that he has opposed tax increases, including campaigning against Proposition 30.

Notable Quote:

Michael Savage (19:51): "But why should I work? Why should I keep working?"

Media and Political Influence

Timestamp: 37:56 – 42:24

Savage recounts his experiences in radio, including challenges faced when expressing controversial opinions. He discusses the evolution of talk radio and its impact on political discourse, positioning himself as a pioneer who integrated edutainment into his shows. Newsom acknowledges Savage's influence in the media landscape and their mutual respect despite differing political views.

Notable Quote:

Michael Savage (38:03): "I drive home that night to my family. I was shaking, looking in the rearview mirror. I was scared someone was going to kill me."

Personal Interactions and Final Remarks

Timestamp: 51:04 – End

In the concluding segment, Savage shares personal stories, including being banned from the UK and his relationships within various communities. Both hosts emphasize the importance of respectful dialogue despite deep-seated disagreements. Savage highlights his multifaceted career and contributions to alternative health, while Newsom expresses appreciation for Savage’s willingness to engage in civil conversation.

Notable Quote:

Michael Savage (57:33): "My advice to the Democrats... Borders, language and culture."

Conclusion

The episode encapsulates a robust dialogue between Gavin Newsom and Michael Savage, tackling contentious issues like immigration, climate change, taxation, and homelessness. Through respectful debate and personal anecdotes, both hosts underscore the necessity of open conversations to bridge political divides and address the complex challenges facing California and the broader United States.

Transcript

[Gavin Newsom]

Foreign. This is Gavin Newsom. And this is Michael Savage. The hell are you doing here? Why? What are we doing here, the two of us, of all people?

[Michael Savage]

Well, we're supposedly political polar opposites, which we probably are. However, as I say on my TV show, you don't have to like my politics to like me. And a lot of people seem to like me, but hate my politics. Some actually like me and my politics, which is the ideal.

[Gavin Newsom]

I love it. So we've known each other, I mean, full disclosure, so folks may not know this. We've known each other over the course, on and off for a couple decades now. Right? I mean, back. I remember you. I was joking with Trump the other day in the Oval Office. I said, you know, before, you know, you'd Calling me new scum is not novel. Savage had a version of that early on when I was mayor.

[Michael Savage]

Any twosome.

[Gavin Newsom]

Newsom, thank you very much.

[Michael Savage]

Should I tell that story?

[Gavin Newsom]

No, you shouldn't tell that story.

[Michael Savage]

It's got your great father involved in it.

[Gavin Newsom]

Did he get involved in it?

[Michael Savage]

No. I was in the north beach restaurant, which you remember, the heyday of the north beach restaurant.

[Gavin Newsom]

Come on.

[Michael Savage]

Your dad may rest in peace. Judge Newsom was there. I was introduced to him. And I said, you were the Board of Supervisors chairman and you were just introduced to gay marriage at resolution. And I said, judge, your son just made the biggest career error of his life. He's finished. And he said, you know, I agree with you, Michael. Well, guess what? We were both wrong.

[Gavin Newsom]

He did agree with you, by the way. He was. He was always up. He was. Come on. Old Irish Catholic, west side of San Francisco. And by the way, I remember. You remember this back in the day. That's why you probably shook my hand. Back then. I ran as the conservative. Right.

[Michael Savage]

I don't remember. Honestly, I don't know what you ran as. I know that the city was. Look, I came here in 74. I'm an immigrant to San Francisco. My father was an immigrant to America. I'm a first generation American. So I have one foot in the old world, one foot in the new. So I still see a little bit of the immigrant and the native kind of stuff.

[Gavin Newsom]

Yeah.

[Michael Savage]

But I'm new to the city. It was a great, wide open city. You could do whatever the hell you wanted. And then what happened was it went off the rails because ultra tolerance led to. Or as I put it, Governor Newsom, when anything goes, everything goes.

[Gavin Newsom]

Got it?

[Michael Savage]

It's a good line.

[Gavin Newsom]

It's a good line. I. My line. I Tell my kids I said, how you do anything is how you do everything.

[Michael Savage]

It's true.

[Gavin Newsom]

So you got to focus on the detail, how you make your bed. And it's what. How you do everything.

[Michael Savage]

You actually make them make their beds?

[Gavin Newsom]

I make them make their beds. I make my bed, too, by the way. But I believe that. By the way. Sometimes my wife doesn't even believe because there are a few days off. But let's talk about, you know, you've never taken any time away from the Bay Area. I mean, for all you've been here since the 70s.

[Michael Savage]

74.

[Gavin Newsom]

And you've. 74. You went to Berkeley. PhD in 70.

[Michael Savage]

I earned it in two and a half, two years and seven months, which is a world record. No one knows about it. I came in with two master's degrees. I was blocked from a PhD in one of the master's degrees because the field was too advanced. And I came here and got. I worked for an independent PhD which was unheard of. There were only seven of them issued a year at the time. It was the toughest thing I ever did in my life. I was so proud to get a PhD from Berkeley because everyone said to me, that's your union card. You get that PhD, you're going to be hired as a professor. Unfortunately. Hello. It kicked in. White males need not apply. I was rejected from every position I applied for. And I was told point blank that we can't hire you because we have to fill quotas. They told it to me.

[Gavin Newsom]

So they were very. I mean, that's because I remember you wrote a poem in 1977. Right. About white male.

[Michael Savage]

You saw that?

[Gavin Newsom]

You wrote a poem in which you.

[Michael Savage]

Asked me, death of the White Male.

[Gavin Newsom]

The Death of the white in the 70s.

[Michael Savage]

How do you know that?

[Gavin Newsom]

You were talking about that.

[Michael Savage]

Someone gave you a background on me.

[Gavin Newsom]

I've been tracking you. We've been casing you for years.

[Michael Savage]

Someone's watching me.

[Gavin Newsom]

Savage.

[Michael Savage]

I did. I wrote a hot book called the Death of the White Male, which no one knows about. It's a pamphlet.

[Gavin Newsom]

Yeah.

[Michael Savage]

Trotsky or Lenin would understand that.

[Gavin Newsom]

By the way, speaking of Trotsky and Lennon, you were hanging out with Allen Ginsberg.

[Michael Savage]

Yes.

[Gavin Newsom]

Lawrence Ferlinghetti.

[Michael Savage]

Yes.

[Gavin Newsom]

Quite literal, maybe. I mean, Lawrence Port Laureate, San Francisco.

[Michael Savage]

Oh, yeah.

[Gavin Newsom]

Many moons later, you had some, you know, interesting moments back there in North Beach. Back to North Beach, Yes. I mean, that was.

[Michael Savage]

Lawrence was a friend of the family. Lawrence and Janet and I. He met. He flew out to. With Allen Ginsberg. Lawrence and Allen flew. They were on the way to the Adelaide Arts Fest in Australia, and we had known them from New York. We know Alan from New York, and I met Lawrence here, and I said, why don't you stop at our house in Hawaii? I was renting a house, going to grad school there, and they both stopped in, they spent a few days with us, and that was that. But Lawrence and I stayed on and on in the years. Politically opposites again. Yeah, but you don't have to hate someone who you don't agree with. That's the. That's why I'm here. That's why you invited me here.

[Gavin Newsom]

I love that. And. But it's. I mean, it is a remarkable journey for you. I mean, if. If I just wrote out your resume, those early years, not only were you in San Francisco and in the Bay area getting a PhD, but it was the PhD in what? It was around nutrition, it was around ethnomedicine eth.

[Michael Savage]

Nutritional ethnomedicine, which was an interdisciplinary PhD with epidemiology, human nutrition and anthropology in a combined whole, which was an interdisciplinary PhD which, in order to get into that program, you had to go through the heaviest screening program because a lot of people use bullshit to get into interdisciplinary do nothing. I had to go through the toughest people at that university and explain why I wanted to combine those fields in a new field. And it was a tough interview. So I got the PhD block from. I'd written seven books at the time and still couldn't get a teaching job. So I got very angry. Gavin. Yeah, I'm an immigrant son. I want to be a professor. It's all I want to be. And they're saying because of your race, you can't be hired. It's crazy.

[Gavin Newsom]

So you really. I mean, it was that indelible. Was that the big shift then for you in terms of your politics? Did it really become. You were like, enough when it was it.

[Michael Savage]

Well, Gavin, I was a social worker in New York before I came here, teacher social worker. And I was going into houses of people on welfare who were living better than I was. I was living at the time in a rental apartment. I had wooden furniture crates. We had a mattress on the floor and orange crates for end tables. So I go into the supervisor at the welfare office and I say to her, blah, blah, blah. She says, well, start writing out checks. Mr. Smith gets $600 for an end table, $800 for two chairs, $900 for a bit. I said, wait a minute, I don't have that. She said, just Keep writing the checks. And I said, something's wrong with this system.

[Gavin Newsom]

And so you weren't raised necessarily with a strong ideological. Oh, no, your parents weren't necessarily. Your father, your mom. I mean, they weren't. They weren't out there marching the streets for a Democrat or Republican. It was none of that.

[Michael Savage]

Nobody knew a Republican in my family or in my circles. My father was an immigrant, and he would walk the streets and he would point things out to me and teach me what the world was about. But he would say. I said, dad, are you a Democrat or Republican? He would say, you know, Michael, he said, all I know is things are better for me when Democrats are in office. Now, remember, he came through the Depression. He worked in the wpa. He got a job as a kid who had nothing. Driving a car for a politician. I still don't know how he got it. Who did he know? He told me stories of driving some corrupt politician to Saratoga Springs. I don't even know the rest of those stories. So he. To him, the government intervened in the Great Depression with the wpa, and it saved him.

[Gavin Newsom]

Right. So it shaped his perspective.

[Michael Savage]

But he didn't understand that after jfk, who I voted for. I love jfk. He was one of my heroes. I'll never forget how he influenced me when I saw that picture of him. And he said, don't ask what your country can do for you, but what you can do for your country. You know, that. That puts steel in my spine. I wanted to go out and march and do something for my country.

[Gavin Newsom]

I love that.

[Michael Savage]

One good line can influence a person for a long time.

[Gavin Newsom]

Yeah. This notion of. Of responsibility, not just opera, it's the one piece that I think in our party continues. We. We continue to miss. Well, and I. But we're going to get to that in a moment. But I want. I just want to talk about those moments that shaped you. I mean, again, sitting here talking about nutrition. You were working in a clinic, you in San Francisco.

[Michael Savage]

Yes.

[Gavin Newsom]

You're writing all these books. You were. I mean, dare I say in the. And here are a bunch of them right here. One of what, by the way, you said seven, but you've done 29.

[Michael Savage]

Nine books, published. Several unpublished.

[Gavin Newsom]

Several we'll get to.

[Michael Savage]

You know, there is two novels in there set in San Francisco. People don't read novels. Abuse of Power and A Time for War. They're set in San Francisco, in North beach, in the North Beach Restaurant. And around there, at the time of Lorenzo was alive.

[Gavin Newsom]

Lorenzo Petroni, North Beach Restaurant So he.

[Michael Savage]

Used to write years ago, old Italian. And all the Democrats would meet in that restaurant, remember, in the back room.

[Gavin Newsom]

And the closet of Republicans.

[Michael Savage]

So he. They'd meet there. And one of them once said to him, he said, michael, you know what they said to me? I said what they said to me, are you a right winger? He says, no, I'm not a right wing. I'm a fascist. That's what Lorenzo said. May you rest in peace.

[Gavin Newsom]

May you rest in peace. By the way, I'm survived. He survived as long as he did. He was usually three or four bottles at lunch in and then went all night, poor man. But he was. But he was.

[Michael Savage]

He was built like a bear.

[Gavin Newsom]

A bear.

[Michael Savage]

He was a bear. Old world bear.

[Gavin Newsom]

Different generation. But it. But it. Remember? So we were shaped so similarly. I mean, I was the kid in the corner with my father, with George Moscone, the former mayor, Quentin Cop, the former state senator and become judge, all that. And that shaped my political beginnings and sort of, you know, gave me a sense of what the whole political scene was about in north beach was really the sort of. It was the neighborhood city hall where real deals were done.

[Michael Savage]

So, Gavin, we want to talk about. I'm sorry, the personal stuff and the health stuff. I know that. But if I don't ask some, can I read the bullet points?

[Gavin Newsom]

Unbelievable.

[Michael Savage]

So you.

[Gavin Newsom]

You're bringing notes? I bring nothing. I got the questions.

[Michael Savage]

I'm not as young.

[Gavin Newsom]

Well, I want. Let's jump in. I'm going to. But I want to start. Let's start with this. And we'll go back and forth. But this whole frame of nutrition is really interesting because it's very contemporary. Now you've got RFK Jr you've got now new Health and Human Service Secretary. Obviously, Trump embracing this notion of Maha. Make America healthy again, by the way. I love that. I love that.

[Michael Savage]

Look at you. You're not a fat guy.

[Gavin Newsom]

No, but it's not even. Not even about body weight. It's about just health and wellness. All the stuff you've been preaching and practicing. You were the original. You were. Yes, I will say original bunch of things. And we'll get to language, borders, culture in a minute.

[Michael Savage]

Oh, wow.

[Gavin Newsom]

And Trump and Trumpism. Because you were, you know, Trump was a Democrat. Oh, I'm aware of practicing these.

[Michael Savage]

Fully aware.

[Gavin Newsom]

But this whole Maha movement, I mean, you've got to feel pretty good about that. Or do you feel it's a little off base and not necessarily. Is it well established in the sort of cornerstone of your More academic thinking.

[Michael Savage]

Okay. So I was a big element of the alternative health movement in California from the time I got here. Herbal medicine, homeopathy, nutrition, wrote books on it. I knew all the leaders. I knew Linus Pauling, I knew Bob Cathcote, I knew Richard Cunyon. These were the genius geniuses in the field. Here's the problem with RFK Jr. He's a Johnny come lately to the field. I like what he's doing. He doesn't have the nuance or the subtlety to understand a lot of it. And even when he was appointed, I was sending messages to Trump saying, you can't eliminate the entire Health and Human Services Department. There are some good scientists in the nih. You can't throw the baby out with the bathwater, slow down. All revolutionaries, as you know, left and right want to start from the beginning. You can't do it. You can't fire every scientist. I try to tell him that, and I try to get on the good side of RFK Jr without any luck. Russ was skiing in Aspen a few weeks ago.

[Gavin Newsom]

Yeah.

[Michael Savage]

You know who was on the chair next to him?

[Gavin Newsom]

Who?

[Michael Savage]

RFK Jr. So he said to him who he is, and he says, you know who my dad is. And he says, michael Savage. And he says, wow, he's a great guy. But, you know, I've never talked to him.

[Gavin Newsom]

RFK all these years.

[Michael Savage]

No. I still haven't gotten to him.

[Gavin Newsom]

Interesting. Despite the fact you've been at this longer than he's been on, I would.

[Michael Savage]

Like to help as an advisor on the alternative medicine side of his revolutionary quest. And I also would like to offer you, Gavin Newsom, as the governor of this great state, where I've been since 74. Don't you have a health task force? Alternative medicine?

[Gavin Newsom]

Yeah, of course. No, we're about wellness, about health care, not sick care. We've been focused on all the issues around ultra processed food, free meals, nutritious meals, focusing on farm to fork, focusing on proximity to agriculture, focusing on small farms and regenerative farming, all the component parts and all this. I mean, a lot of it, of course, is weaponized politically. I did quote, unquote, the Skittles ban a couple years ago. The same folks in the right were attacking the Skittles ban, which was about red dye. Now they're embracing and celebrating it.

[Michael Savage]

Before I wrote about it in 1974 in a book called Bugs in the Peanut Butter.

[Gavin Newsom]

Is that right?

[Michael Savage]

It was a book for children about all the dangers in everyday foods. People thought I was crazy.

[Gavin Newsom]

I Love it.

[Michael Savage]

But do you have a commission on alternative health? Homeopathy, nutrition, herbal medicine?

[Gavin Newsom]

We have, you know, not full. I mean, it's. It's represented in health bodies, but it's not fully represented.

[Michael Savage]

This is what the state of California should be leading the world in. All these alternative, I think, modalities. You have tons of practitioners in those fields in this state.

[Gavin Newsom]

Dollar a year. I mean, we may negotiate. Fifty. I'm so curious. I mean, look, I joke about language, you know, borders, Language, culture. Culture.

[Michael Savage]

My motto.

[Gavin Newsom]

I mean, it's just indelible. I was listening to you as a supervisor. I was listening to you as mayor. Not just because we ran into each other, not just because I knew your son Russ and love your wife, Janet. You're the most entertaining person and personality, period. Full stop. And storyteller on the radio. You were.

[Michael Savage]

I'm a good story. Well, I tell stories because they're part of life. And education is about telling stories. A good teacher tells a story, doesn't just beat you up with facts. So if I can tell a story about my life and it makes a political point. Fine. So let me tell a political story, if I may. About five years ago, I had a heart attack. Yeah. Here in Marin County.

[Gavin Newsom]

Yes.

[Michael Savage]

So I'm rushed to Marin General.

[Gavin Newsom]

Yeah.

[Michael Savage]

I have to wait in line. It's filled with illegal aliens. And the girl at the desk makes me wait. I said, I'm dying. Do you understand? I called the car, he's waiting for me and she starts driving me through like hoops. I said no. And I walk into the ER room and they hook me up and do their stuff. So, income? Two huge 250 pound black bodyguards because they heard there was a troublemaker in the emergency room. So here's this little Jewish guy on a journey with wires and plugs in him. And I said, yeah, I'm the one who was causing trouble out there. They laughed and they left. And I was why do I have to wait to get into an emergency room when I pay more taxes than any 10,000 of them?

[Gavin Newsom]

Do you know what? That's why we do preventative care. That's why we have a different approach. Because we have sick care in the emergency room that's universal across this country. Well, I told you about access all across the country whose circumstances you are at substantially higher prices on the back end for the emergency care.

[Michael Savage]

This is where we disagree. Because you can't give first world excellent medical care to everyone on the planet without going bankrupt.

[Gavin Newsom]

No, I appreciate it, but honestly, I mean, this Sincerely, what would you do to the person that was just hit by a car that was here for 15 years taking care of your elderly grandparents in an elder care facility, and they end up in the emergency room? You say, no, you're not going to get that.

[Michael Savage]

Of course you're going to give them care. First of all, it's not only inhumane, but it's available to them. But that's not what we're talking about. There are people coming over the border just for expensive surgeries. Just for expensive.

[Gavin Newsom]

By the way, few years ago, I remember people going south of the border into Tijuana from San Diego because it was cheaper to get some quality care.

[Michael Savage]

In Mexico those days. But if you talk about borders, language and culture, which you introduced, and I think it's very important that everyone knows it's my mantra, why aren't you asking?

[Gavin Newsom]

And by the way, when was it your mantra?

[Michael Savage]

I mean, 94, were people talking like.

[Gavin Newsom]

That in the early 90s? They were starting to a little bit.

[Michael Savage]

Right.

[Gavin Newsom]

Prop 197 in California.

[Michael Savage]

Oh, you remember 209 and 187.

[Gavin Newsom]

So there was a little of that. But you, but you really coined that phrase.

[Michael Savage]

Okay. So I created the Paul Revere Society in 94 here in California, which no longer exists. And the motto, how to Write a Card up. What do we stand for? Borders, language, culture. So nobody truly understood it, but there's not a country on earth that is not defined by its borders, unified by its language, and doesn't have a common culture. And when you lose all of that, you lose the nation. I don't care what the nation is. It could be a small African nation, a small Caribbean nation. They're defined by their borders, language and culture. How hard is that? People understand. So when. Let me just finish the border thing. Even China built the Great Wall of China to protect its border. Why? Because the Mongols were invading China. So I'm a total believer in the sovereignty of a nation. I don't know how anyone can argue with that.

[Gavin Newsom]

Right. And I mean, I, I, there are some that obviously do, but I'm not among them. By the way, California, we put down almost 400, 394 National Guards since the week I first became governor to supplement and support Customs and Border patrol at the border to address some of the issues of fentanyl and some of the border security concerns. So I do agree with Trump then.

[Michael Savage]

On cracking down on the flood of illegals into the nation.

[Gavin Newsom]

I think there's a way of doing it and approaching it, and I think we have a broader problem, which is immigration policy and asylum abuse. The asylum system is broken in the United States.

[Michael Savage]

You have the power to do something about it in the state, don't you?

[Gavin Newsom]

Well, not directly. And we have no border, direct border, except for supplementing our support, which we again have been doing for years and years and years.

[Michael Savage]

So here's a great statement that no one's going to expect from me where I probably. I'm to the left of you on something I love it with, with immigration that people don't understand. I know of a person who was here 20 years from Mexico. He's worked seven days a week, he's paid taxes. He can't become a citizen. That's wrong.

[Gavin Newsom]

I'm with you.

[Michael Savage]

Something's wrong with that.

[Gavin Newsom]

That's by. That's why we. We, I. We talk about the border, which is critical.

[Michael Savage]

Not even a traffic ticket.

[Gavin Newsom]

I appreciate it.

[Michael Savage]

Yeah, it's not even a traffic ticket.

[Gavin Newsom]

Now you're having. So this is interesting. Just the last comprehensive survey in the state of California, and this is not a contemporary survey, needs to be updated. Said that. That 67% of people that are here without documentation in California have been here for 10 plus years along the same.

[Michael Savage]

But are they paying taxes and paying taxes. But here's the secret majority of folks. The worker pays taxes, but they have several dependents at home who don't who live on supplemental income from the state and the federal government. That is a problem.

[Gavin Newsom]

And that's in that. And. And therein lies, yes, some of the sort of dialectic you and I will have to have in terms of what's the appropriate level of support and how you deal with that. That reality. The federal failure to address the issue of immigration, immigration policy and border. We completely agree with. The question is what's that pathway to address the example you just provided?

[Michael Savage]

Because I do it, Gavin. I pay 16% in state taxes.

[Gavin Newsom]

You pay. Well, then you need a better accountant because it's 13.3%.

[Michael Savage]

But there's a millionaires tax on top of it.

[Gavin Newsom]

Well, there's.

[Michael Savage]

And I work and I'm 83 years old and I still work.

[Gavin Newsom]

Right.

[Michael Savage]

Okay. I have another home in Florida. Yeah, I don't live there. I prefer where I live. I've gotten used to the fog, to the seagulls, to the cormorants. I know all the birds of the bay. I'm an avid boater, so I got used to watching the fog rolling over the Marin hills. I watch it roll out in the afternoon.

[Gavin Newsom]

I love it.

[Michael Savage]

And I'VE always said you got the 10 zones, you got snow to the desert. So it's a perfect geographical location for me. But there's a point at which I will leave this state and that will be taxation without representation. I could go to Florida and pay no state tax.

[Gavin Newsom]

Right? Right. Yeah. I mean, the reality is you're. We have the highest tax rate but not the highest taxes in America.

[Michael Savage]

Who has a higher state tax tax rate?

[Gavin Newsom]

The vast majority of people are not you. They're not the 1%, which means 99 of other people.

[Michael Savage]

I'm subsidizing them.

[Gavin Newsom]

No, but at the end. Well, we can get to that. But the bottom line, places like you use Florida, they tax their low wage workers more than we tax Gavin.

[Michael Savage]

I shouldn't be punished for succeeding and it's a disincentive to me.

[Gavin Newsom]

I get it.

[Michael Savage]

But why should I work? Why should I keep working?

[Gavin Newsom]

There's many reasons. And you don't need to work. I know this. There's one thing I know you of all people do not have to work for.

[Michael Savage]

But I haven't. I'm an immigrant son. I wore dead man's pants as a kid. Every nickel. I have, I have. I've worked since I'm five years old.

[Gavin Newsom]

Yeah.

[Michael Savage]

The young man drives to me, he's from Mexico. He says, michael, you're an inspiration to me. You keep working at your age. I tell all my friends that not all white people in houses don't work. He says, some of you keep working. And why. He said, you're such an inspiration to me. But work is a. You know, Gauguin. I'm sorry, Rodin, the great sculptor. Yeah, everyone knows his work. It's in the palace of Legion of Honor. All his work. Right. Love that museum. So I read Rodin avidly. And Rodin said, work is the only salvation. And I found that to be true.

[Gavin Newsom]

I love it. I'm. I was with. Voltaire said work solves life's three great evils. Boredom, vice and need.

[Michael Savage]

Who said that?

[Gavin Newsom]

Voltaire.

[Michael Savage]

Voltaire.

[Gavin Newsom]

Boredom. Boredom, vice and need. Look, I'm with you. We're not, but I think it's important. Just in California, the vast majority of middle class taxpayers pay less than they do in California. Middle class than they do in states like Texas. Well, it's a question of who you're for.

[Michael Savage]

We have the highest how much, to.

[Gavin Newsom]

What level they pay low average to slightly above average taxed state. Well, it's the 1%. And by the way, we haven't raised your taxes at the 1% since 2011. And it wasn't, by the way, I wasn't governor, wasn't lieutenant governor or I just became lieutenant governor, but it was the voters of California that did that. But I don't disagree with you.

[Michael Savage]

Poor people always vote for taxation on the rich. That's what Karl Marx taught them to do.

[Gavin Newsom]

So the thing is, I'm not advocating for increasing taxes. Haven't done it. As governor of the state of California, no income tax increases under my governorship, I've opposed them. In fact, did $5 million of ads to stop Proposition 30, which was a tax increase run by corporations in the Bay Area that had their own special tax increase where I did ads to oppose it and impose the wealth tax in California. So we're trying to keep you here, Dr. Savage.

[Michael Savage]

I will in the great taxes go up.

[Gavin Newsom]

I know we're working hard against that.

[Michael Savage]

So look, I made a little as borders voting illegal aliens who are voting in the state. Is that still illegal?

[Gavin Newsom]

That's of course, it was always illegal. Wasn't never.

[Michael Savage]

So I'll bring up vote.

[Gavin Newsom]

But what substantive evidence is there to suggest that you have any receipts to back up that all of these people are voting illegally?

[Michael Savage]

I know that all of them are. But I'll ask you a question that everyone. Look, I put this on social media and they said ask the governor. And again, I don't have to be contentious to ask you this.

[Gavin Newsom]

No, I appreciate it.

[Michael Savage]

Why does it take so many months or days to count the ballots in California a month. India, one day to count 640 million votes. Germany, eight hours to count 50 million votes. Argentina, six hours to count 27 million votes. California, four weeks to count 60 million votes.

[Gavin Newsom]

It's ridiculous. Why it's ridiculous. It's because it's. And by the way, we've been having this conversation enough and it's a con. First of all, we believe that every vote counts. So we want to make sure every vote is counted because of the provisional ballots. The fact we do all mail in ballots, the fact that we have such an such huge investments in making sure that we increase that outreach. We want to make sure again, every vote counts. But you're right the time, right about right. No, the right. Absolutely. The right is right. And you are right to criticize the extended period.

[Michael Savage]

I'm not actually a right winger. I'm an independent, independent conservative, I would say.

[Gavin Newsom]

What does that mean?

[Michael Savage]

Independent, meaning I'll make up my own mind about every issue. So on the environment, I'm probably to the left of you you.

[Gavin Newsom]

What I love about you, this is where we have some interaction periodically. And I, I look at you as you're an animal rights guy that's absolutely big into the animal rights advocates.

[Michael Savage]

Well, not burning down clinics or attacking people who eat meat.

[Gavin Newsom]

You're conservationists, but you don't learn environmentalists.

[Michael Savage]

Because there's a difference. Conservationists believe in conserving the environment. Environmentalists use the environment as a political weapon or a tool to advance, I would say, a Marxist agenda. There's a big difference. It's. It's like anything else. I mean, you could be for something without using it as a weapon against your political enemies. So everyone's saying, the fires, the fires, the fires, yeah. Can we talk about the fires?

[Gavin Newsom]

We need to talk about the fires. It's the. This last decade has been extraordinary and devastating. Not just in Los Angeles, but the campfire where I originally was with President Trump as governor of elect walking there, 85 people lost their lives. We live very close, both of us now. Marin, Santa Rosa, the Tubs fire, terrible fire. 100 housing units lost. So, no, this is, this is serious stuff. And, you know, God bless. There's fires going on in the middle of winter in South Carolina and as we speak.

[Michael Savage]

But what about the rebuilding down in Pacific Palisades? This is a hot button issue.

[Gavin Newsom]

Yeah.

[Michael Savage]

Shouldn't it be a. I'm sorry, a special master to administer the funds. It seems fishy to a lot of people.

[Gavin Newsom]

Administer which funds? The FEMA dollars.

[Michael Savage]

The rebuilding of Los Angeles.

[Gavin Newsom]

Well, there should be accountability across the spectrum.

[Michael Savage]

Who's accounting for?

[Gavin Newsom]

Well, FEMA has rules and regulations that are overseen by Congress and obviously the distribution of those funds. A lot of it's individual aid, a lot of it's through the sba. A lot of it have very prescriptive requirements that are well established across the country. But we're all for accountability. I'm for accountability, and I have no problem. And I think in terms of that, transparency and accountability, advocating for it and for all our tax dollars, not just as it relates to rebuild.

[Michael Savage]

So here's one related to it from my friend Danny Horowitz, who's my attorney. Great man. You got to meet Daniel. Hope you never have to meet him. But, no, he's a great guy.

[Gavin Newsom]

Are you getting in trouble?

[Michael Savage]

No, no. I hate lawyers. I only like my lawyer. So he said, please. He loves you. He said, please. Ask the governor the following. He said. State Senator Scott Weiner, DSF has introduced SB677, which his website says is designed to strengthen two of California's landmark housing streamlining laws, SB9, blah, blah, blah. These bills would allow developers to override local zoning laws and create high density housing in suburbs and places like the burned down areas of la. The bills allow this intensified development without any provision for increased fire, police or water services. He says, Gavin, you signed SB9 and SB423. Given the devastating impact of Los Angeles fires, are you willing to rethink your support of these bills and allow local communities to make their own assessments of fire and public safety readiness?

[Gavin Newsom]

So as it relates to the specific bill that he referenced that Scott Wiener just introduced is one of 2,000. Michael, over 2,000 bills were just introduced by the legislature.

[Michael Savage]

Too many bills.

[Gavin Newsom]

There's not 2,000 problems. I know you think there are a lot of problems.

[Michael Savage]

They're not two.

[Gavin Newsom]

You don't think they're 2,000.

[Michael Savage]

I don't think there are problems. I don't think there's two problems. There's only three. What is language and culture?

[Gavin Newsom]

Language and culture. We'll get to language and culture in a second. We talked a little bit about borders, but no. So I, first of all, I haven't had a chance to review it, so it's difficult to respond respond specifically about it. It's not on my desk. It may never end up on my desk, which these bills, the bill that he was referencing from Scott Wiener. But, and that's not just me punting on it, but let me talk about the rebuild in la. I'm not looking to upzone the Palisades. We're not looking to make this sort of developer friendly. In fact, I waive the Coastal act and I waive ceca, which is our environmental reforms to allow people to rebuild like units within 110% of the original footprint. With the original plans fast tracking that process, we got the debris removed. And thank you to the epa. Thank you, Lee Zeldin. Thank you to President Trump directly for helping. We got the debris for the hazardous waste done in less than 30 days, unprecedented in US history. We want to get the rest of this debris done within nine months concurrently. We're already doing housing permits and people are going to start reconstruction in a matter of months. But you got to build back, smarter, better. You got to deal with the climate realities, you got to deal with fire issues. You've got to deal with redundancies and systems related to.

[Michael Savage]

Sounds like it's going to slow everything.

[Gavin Newsom]

Down, not going to slow everything out. We do this concurrently. We do this and sort of stacking order. We're trying to do this quickly but safely and smartly because we don't want to be as dumb as we possibly want to be by building back in the way that we built in the 50s for a world that no longer exists today. And you have to admit, hots are getting hotter, dries are drier, droughts. Well, these atmospheric rivers.

[Michael Savage]

No, no, no, Mr. Savage, slow days. Science is my middle name.

[Gavin Newsom]

I know, but you're. I mean, but your other. Your eyes tell you a different story too, right?

[Michael Savage]

No, no, Reality is reality. Let's talk about climate change. You brought it up.

[Gavin Newsom]

I just brought up. I brought up temperatures.

[Michael Savage]

A lot of this is. Is total bullshit. They're all wrong on it. The science doesn't support it. And I'm going to give you one piece of evidence that people don't want to look at real science evidence. I did it on my YouTube channel yesterday because I was talking about the Pope and his health. And the Pope is a radical leftist politically, by the way, St. Francis of San Francisco. And I wish him, our patron saint, speedy recovery. But he was a radical leftist guy and he was wrong about environmental things, because I know who wrote his encyclical on this, and the guy is a classic Marxist. So one piece of evidence, which they'll cut right out of this tape. They're called the Vostok ice core samples. No one heard of them. Okay, okay, so Russia and France, you got left and right.

[Gavin Newsom]

Yeah.

[Michael Savage]

Scientists from both countries drill into the Antarctic shelf. They drill down 10,000ft, two miles, they pull up a core from the Antarctic. And why are you looking at the core of the Antarctic? Because you can see climactic changes in the core, as you understand. And guess what? There were carbon dioxide increases millennia ago, but they always followed temperature increases. They didn't cause the temperature increases. People don't understand that. We had a period of great flora enveloping the Earth, which produced a great deal of carbon dioxide. So. Now, don't get me wrong, though. I'm not arguing for pollution. I'm a guy who. A bicycle every day.

[Gavin Newsom]

I like a Berkeley graduate that bicycles every day and writes books about nutrition.

[Michael Savage]

Right. Believe me, I hate pollution.

[Gavin Newsom]

The original. I mean, the guy who's inspired so much of what Trump is advancing.

[Michael Savage]

Well, let's talk about that if you want. Let's talk about Trump. And Trump is a.

[Gavin Newsom]

But don't you. And before that, though, because to be fair, on the climate issue, I mean, but you'll. You'll acknowledge. Yeah, I mean, seriously, just, you know, and you're. You've got your Northern California guy. You go up to Lake Tahoe. Just the snow levels. I mean these. There's some trend lines here that are understandable headlines.

[Michael Savage]

But climate's been changing for millennia.

[Gavin Newsom]

Okay, we'll acknowledge its change.

[Michael Savage]

Well, wait a minute. But it's not changing in the direction you think it is.

[Gavin Newsom]

Okay.

[Michael Savage]

We're actually, we're actually entering a little ice period. People don't study history long. And in geological history, we're actually entering a cold phase, not a hot phase. So climate. You remember in the middle ages of 1500s it was very cold in Europe. Read about that. You weren't around.

[Gavin Newsom]

Yeah, it wasn't.

[Michael Savage]

Yeah, but it was frozen. England was all of the Dickens novels set in the snowy London.

[Gavin Newsom]

Sure.

[Michael Savage]

Because a cold wave came through England. It was a cold. A little ice age it was called. We're entering a small little ice period on the earth, not the opposite. So there's a lot more to the science. If you could let me sit down and I'll show you data. And your scientists, they're not going to want to hear it because people don't want to look at science. They only want their doxies supported by the science they approve of.

[Gavin Newsom]

Yeah, no, I mean, look, I, you know, have to believe in science, but I do. I joked about believe in your own eyes. I mean, places, lifestyles, traditions, communities being wiped off the map. We had a three year historic drought, the most significant drought California's history. Drought since statehood. And it ended in three weeks with the wettest. Three weeks since statehood. Correct.

[Michael Savage]

The wettest extreme. Because nature always corrects itself. Extreme weather, Gavin, come on. Nature corrects itself. I'll tell you something, it does.

[Gavin Newsom]

Bat last bats a thousand. Chemistry, biology, physics, that's all Mother Nature is. I'll agree with you on that.

[Michael Savage]

But Gavin, listen. In 1872, it was so hot in the state of California before there was the first internal combustion engine. 1872.

[Gavin Newsom]

Yeah.

[Michael Savage]

The cornfields exploded in the Sacramento Valley from a heat wave. No cars, no. No real factories yet because the climate was changing. Because it always changes. Now having said that, I'm not arguing for pollution. I, you know, it's a form of.

[Gavin Newsom]

Theft in my mind.

[Michael Savage]

You know why I moved from New York? Pollution. I left New York in the 60s to get away from the. I would be dead if I had stayed.

[Gavin Newsom]

By the way, in 1967, Ronald Reagan, then governor, agreed with. We created the California Air Resources Board because of the smog in la.

[Michael Savage]

Good for him.

[Gavin Newsom]

Wanted to clean the air. Clean Air Act, 1970.

[Michael Savage]

Did he do it?

[Gavin Newsom]

And our waiver was caught up. That's what Trump's attacking right now. There's that beautiful picture of Reagan in the Oval looking down at President Trump as he vandalizes Reagan and Nixon's leaders.

[Michael Savage]

I'm not going to join you in attacking Clean Air Trump on this podcast, even though you would like me to.

[Gavin Newsom]

But still, we're getting along, Trump, and.

[Michael Savage]

Well, here's a question.

[Gavin Newsom]

We spent an hour, an hour and a half, but he's.

[Michael Savage]

Look, how can you ask him for $300 billion to rebuild California and spend. And spend 50 million and spend 50 million attacking him? How is that possible?

[Gavin Newsom]

We didn't spend 50 million. Attack. We hope we don't use a penny of it. We had. We were involved in 122 lawsuits in the last Trump administration. I was only involved in two years of that. Governor Brown, who, you know, well, I've had on your show and over the years, was involved.

[Michael Savage]

I think I did, years ago.

[Gavin Newsom]

Years ago, yeah. And I say that only make the point that you're always someone that reaches out, and I've always appreciated that.

[Michael Savage]

I had Nancy Pelosi on my radio show proving the point. Nobody would know it. I know I had Charles Schumer on my radio show years ago. No one knows that. See, you know why?

[Gavin Newsom]

Why?

[Michael Savage]

Politics makes strange bedfellows.

[Gavin Newsom]

That's why we're here. We're having a civil conversation. So we're. Look, we didn't put that money up to go after proactively Trump. We're doing to protect Ronald Reagan's leadership at the California Air Resource Board.

[Michael Savage]

You can make that point if you want. Now, look, on the environment, I can guarantee you that. On the environment, Trump and I don't get along. I could guarantee you.

[Gavin Newsom]

Interesting.

[Michael Savage]

Yeah, we knew that in the last administration. In fact, I can tell you a story about it if you'd like to hear it. Yeah, I was on Air Force One with him in the flying Oval Office. I won't tell you the long story, but we flew out of Moffett Field to LA to a fundraiser. I got on at the last minute and he didn't like me because I was criticizing him on the radio about his environmental policies. I'm led into the Oval Office. I was led on the plane at almost the last minute, and the guy, I won't tell you who got me on, he said it takes months for clearance. We got you on. So he gets me on, I'm on the plane and they have a buffet and I tend to like wine. And I was, I hadn't drank, so I started drinking.

[Gavin Newsom]

We have wine on Trump's Air Force One.

[Michael Savage]

He doesn't drink, by the way.

[Gavin Newsom]

No, I know. Yeah.

[Michael Savage]

I didn't think I'd be meeting him. I thought I was just getting a ride down to LA for another fundraiser. All of a sudden, after I had three glasses of wine, they said, he'll see you now. I said, oh, shit, now, okay. So they bring me, and I swear to God, he's sitting in the most powerful chair in the world. And the minute I walk through the door, he looks at the guy who brings me and he says, he doesn't look at me. He says, what is he doing here? Points at me like I'm a non person, but I'm from Queens on the other side of Union Turnpike. And I knew he's. I know how he works. She sits. He goes like this, like, bring the Hebrew in, you know, sit him down. The king, bring him. So he sits me down and I say, he says, what are you doing here? Because he knew I was critical of him on Animals and the Environment. I said, donald, you need me. So I don't need you. I said, come on, knock it off. You have Hannity in your back pocket like a sock puppet. I said, they all kiss your ass. I said, you need me because I speak to the educated people out there who want the environment protected. I don't need you. And went on and on. But you know, Gavin, after that we settled down, we had 15 minute flight. His valet brings out two hot dogs. They were kosher, by the way, and I'm not kosher. And I'm starving because I didn't eat all day. Show you how sensitive he is. You've met the man.

[Gavin Newsom]

Oh, many times.

[Michael Savage]

And he looks at my eyes and he sees my eyes dart onto the hot dogs and he looks at me and he says, do you want one? The most powerful man in the world holds up a tray and asks me if I'll take one of his two hot dogs. Being from New York, I said, sure. Now, last point. He's not a bad guy. He says to me, mustard. A ketchup.

[Gavin Newsom]

Well, that's obvious, right?

[Michael Savage]

No, I.

[Gavin Newsom]

Tell me you're a mustard. I'm a mustard guy, thank God.

[Michael Savage]

But he put it on my hot dog. So what is the point? The point is that he's actually a very sensitive guy to other people.

[Gavin Newsom]

I agree, by the way, you are as well. But I've always felt that about you.

[Michael Savage]

I am.

[Gavin Newsom]

It's a compliment.

[Michael Savage]

Thirty Years ago, you came to a Thanksgiving party. I had a Schroeder's Rest 30 years ago, Gavin.

[Gavin Newsom]

I know. Okay. I said two decades. It's been three.

[Michael Savage]

Well, okay. I started the radio in 94.

[Gavin Newsom]

Ray Talia Farrow, which you can't even make up. You subbed for Ray Ty, who was a liberal lion back in the day. Late, late night, Remember that?

[Michael Savage]

Kg.

[Gavin Newsom]

Late, late night kg. But then you. And so that was obviously such a success. And you, you, you. And obviously you woke a lot of people.

[Michael Savage]

It wasn't a success. What happened was the. The program director asked me to fill in for a guy on KG I never listened to because I'm not up in the middle of the night. So I figured, yeah, I'll do radio. So I go on KGO at night. I didn't even know who he was. And I start talking about stuff that I believe in. And people were calling the most hateful calls I ever had in my life. I drove home that night to my family. I was shaking, looking in the rearview mirror. I was scared someone was going to kill me.

[Gavin Newsom]

You literally suffered for Ray Taliaferro. I mean, I'm talking about left. I mean, Bernie Sanders is a right wing person.

[Michael Savage]

Don't even mention his name.

[Gavin Newsom]

No, to compare it to Ray Taliaferro. And he's sort of dominant, but. So then you got your own show the next year?

[Michael Savage]

No, no. I went home and I said to my wife, I'm never going to do radio again as long as I live. It was the most hateful experience of my life. I'm not doing it again. Next day the phone rings and the rest is history. She begged me to do it again. I said, I'll never do that show again and I'll never do an overnight show again. And before long, they created kso, the conservative alternative. They made me the afternoon drive host. And of course it took off from there, then became syndicated.

[Gavin Newsom]

But not just took off. I mean, you had what, 9 million listeners?

[Michael Savage]

Probably closer to 20 million listeners, which is at the peak.

[Gavin Newsom]

So, I mean, you were the. I mean, you talk about this whole space. I mean, we. And you know how everything's changed. You've got your podcast now, radio, but you dominated this space.

[Michael Savage]

Well, Rush was number one. It was you, Rush, Rush, Hannity and Sabbath and Hattie. Yeah, yeah, but Hannity has no intellect. Rush, I won't say a word about. Because he's deceased. Yeah, I won't talk about the dead.

[Gavin Newsom]

You've never been shy about criticizing anybody, any, including myself. Include Are you good about your good stuff? But I don't want to say you. You mean I, I love. I said even Joe. Even Joe Rogan, which is interesting. Called him a meathead.

[Michael Savage]

Well, unfortunately, he is a bit of a meathead. I mean, look, you can't argue with success.

[Gavin Newsom]

No.

[Michael Savage]

And the fact is, is that he's the most number one biggest podcaster in the country. But ask yourself a question. Why hasn't he had me on?

[Gavin Newsom]

Why?

[Michael Savage]

I don't know. Because he's afraid to talk to me. He's had people you never heard of on that podcast.

[Gavin Newsom]

Understatement.

[Michael Savage]

Most I have, I don't, I don't listen.

[Gavin Newsom]

But you know, it's a. I don't have the time.

[Michael Savage]

Look, I had three hour podcast. I had Tucker Carlson on my first TV show on Newsmax, four weeks, which was a shock.

[Gavin Newsom]

Why? Because he hadn't been back on TV in a while.

[Michael Savage]

I didn't think Tucker would do an interview. Number one, interesting. He's a giant, okay. In the field.

[Gavin Newsom]

I agree with that. I agree.

[Michael Savage]

And Tucker always liked me. I ran into him in San Francisco in a studio. We were crossing doing a show. He was very friendly to me then never talked to me again. And I invited him on my TV show and he shockingly said yes. And he's a very congenial, intelligent.

[Gavin Newsom]

You like him, I appreciate it. But you don't like Glenn Beck. You call him. What are you, hemorrhoids with eyes?

[Michael Savage]

Well, I believe that was then. I don't use those terms anymore. I become older and wiser. But, But Gavin, you know, you should have Tucker on. He's very smart.

[Gavin Newsom]

I don't, I, I agree. I think. No, I. I'm fascinated by Tucker, but I'm fascinated by.

[Michael Savage]

Well, he's a liberal at heart. You know, he's. People don't remember Tucker had a bow tie and was on msnbc. Do you remember that you had it three months show on msnbc.

[Gavin Newsom]

If people can't believe that either. Jesus. I remember I was watching you every night.

[Michael Savage]

Did you see the night I uploaded?

[Gavin Newsom]

That was. Well, you, you, you expressed a strong opinion that was not necessarily shared by many. And it was prank caller, I recall.

[Michael Savage]

Do you? It was a prank caller. They had the power to control it by cutting it and editing it out. And they let it run because they. I was undermined by the team. Watch out for your team Gamma. I was told in the media from the beginning, it's always the people who run the cameras, the lights and the microphones will control Your future, but it's amazing.

[Gavin Newsom]

Your resilience. But more important, I want to go back, though. You dominated this space, and so basically. And you're still at it to the point you don't need to do this. Obviously, you love doing it. You're entertaining as hell. It's not all just political punishment.

[Michael Savage]

I'm edutainment.

[Gavin Newsom]

Let's say there's a new edutainment. Is that how you describe it? Is it. I mean. And has that been the secret sauce? It's. I mean, yes. Facts, sure. But, I mean, you're talking about what you're eating. You're talking about.

[Michael Savage]

Yes.

[Gavin Newsom]

Recipes.

[Michael Savage]

That was the fun part of my radio stuff. But on YouTube, I do cooking shows at night in my house where I can curse politicians. So if I'm cooking. If I'm cooking my calamari or my shrimp at night on my pan and the camera's on me, and I say, this shrimp has more integrity than Joe Biden. And I'm not kidding. At least you know it's a shrimp and where it came from. But. Okay. But I would use cooking as a foil. It's a lot of fun, dude.

[Gavin Newsom]

So what do you make of today? What do you make of the Charlie Kirk types and Tucker that. I mean, all these folks, these new platforms, hundreds of. I mean, they seem to be profoundly influential in. In sort of building off the craft you sort of led decades and decades ago. I mean, you were just sort of the. Oh, forgive the. The frame, but. OG of so much.

[Michael Savage]

What exists OG Me?

[Gavin Newsom]

Well, just sort of. Well, in the vernacular of, you know, original gangster. Oh, God.

[Michael Savage]

Right.

[Gavin Newsom]

You know, I mean, I'm using, you know, just some language that people can.

[Michael Savage]

No, now I understand.

[Gavin Newsom]

No, but I mean, literally, it's the world you invented that didn't invent it.

[Michael Savage]

It existed before me. There was talk radio in New York. I never listened to it, by the way. Yeah, I was not that interested.

[Gavin Newsom]

But you took it to another level.

[Michael Savage]

Because I introduced a level of education and knowledge and personality that never existed. People are not willing to talk about their daily. So if I would walk in San Francisco and I'd go in a restaurant, I eat a lot of cheap Chinese restaurants, which I love. I would talk about the meal, and people were interested in the meal as much as they were in the politics, if not more so.

[Gavin Newsom]

Right. And you also, as you're walking the streets, express your point of view about the politics and let's talk about San Francisco.

[Michael Savage]

Gavin, please. I love the city. I don't go over the bridge anymore.

[Gavin Newsom]

Well, I mean, you should. He's coming back.

[Michael Savage]

Here's what happened. About 10 years ago, I was in North.

[Gavin Newsom]

By the way, North Beach Restaurant just reopened.

[Michael Savage]

Another conversation in November. They called me when I was in Florida. New owners. Do you know them?

[Gavin Newsom]

Yes.

[Michael Savage]

And he asked me to come in. He said, we know how important you are to this restaurant. By the way, I have three novels here. That restaurant's featured in three of them. When the rent. So I'm sitting in north beach having dinner. A man comes by, if you want to call him that, takes his pants down and defecates outside the window in the street.

[Gavin Newsom]

Yeah. Not accept.

[Michael Savage]

Without civility, there could be no civil order in a country.

[Gavin Newsom]

I agree with you.

[Michael Savage]

This shouldn't be permitted.

[Gavin Newsom]

It's not acceptable. Nor the encampments, nor the tents. I couldn't agree with you.

[Michael Savage]

I mean, how you were driving accountability. How do you not crack down on these?

[Gavin Newsom]

Well, we did, remember, I did care not cash. My body was burned in effigy. It became the defining issues when I was mayor. We dropped. We reduced the street population by third. We reduced the overall population. Well, it's not a static environment. I wasn't mayor. It's been decade plus. I. I'm the governor, but I'm not the mayor of California. And I want to see accountability at every level of government. The state vision is realized. It's. It is turning around.

[Michael Savage]

I still don't go there.

[Gavin Newsom]

Oh, you gotta. You gotta.

[Michael Savage]

I go.

[Gavin Newsom]

The neighborhoods are thriving in San Francisco.

[Michael Savage]

I'm going in with Romero. It's my body.

[Gavin Newsom]

You got a new. You got a new mayor. And there.

[Michael Savage]

She's great. He's. He's pretty, Daniel, isn't he?

[Gavin Newsom]

Yes. And he's cracked down on the tents and the encampments. And you're seeing progress. We're starting to see that.

[Michael Savage]

Well, I hope I live long enough to eat in San Francisco again.

[Gavin Newsom]

I mean, come on. You would love. You love eating in San Francisco.

[Michael Savage]

Never ate the scomas in my life.

[Gavin Newsom]

You never did. Okay, I made it up.

[Michael Savage]

We should go to dinner in the north beach restaurant.

[Gavin Newsom]

We have to.

[Michael Savage]

Let's go in when you're ready for it, and then I'll tell the story on my podcast. So, Gavin, the homeless thing is the turning point. When that man defecated outside the window. That was the beginning of the end of San Francisco for. Not only for me, but for the whole city, because the cops couldn't do anything about it. Their hands were tied by this small band of radical left Wingers who are saying they're sacred. You can't touch them.

[Gavin Newsom]

Yeah, I mean, look at when I was there. When I was mayor, you may recall this. I did a sit lie ordinance. I did this anti panhandling ordinance. I did care not cash converting welfare checks to services and accountability. We saw real progress. I've been very aggressive on encampments. Just did a new executive order in the state and we're flooding the zone with state support in a way we've never done in the past. When I got there, Michael, this is important. There was never a governor that actually there was no homeless plan in the state of California. There was no support for cities and counties. And it felt that way. We had under Schwarzenegger. It's not a knock on Arnold, but goes back to 2005. We had 188,000 homeless in California. It's just not new. What's happening.

[Michael Savage]

It metastasized into a cancer, especially during.

[Gavin Newsom]

COVID And what's happening in the streets?

[Michael Savage]

I mean Covid, but you know, no civil society would tolerate this, Gavin. And here's my position on it, and it's something you're not going to like to hear. There is a solution to the homeless problem, which is end it. Well, you build camps for them in places outside cities and you give them the care that they need against their will. You don't let them shoot up in the streets. You don't let them defecate or urinate or beat up old women in the streets. You take them off the streets.

[Gavin Newsom]

I agree with focus. I 100% agree broadly with that sentiment in terms of coercion. Just so you know, we just did two major reforms. We've had all these old conservatorship laws that are weak. We finally have strengthened the conservatorship law so we can begin to get people off the streets. We also established a new paradigm called Care Court, which is a whole new strategy to also help in advance to address that subset of people. And we did the most significant mental health reforms and investments in states history that Reese, those resources are going out to do regional centers along the lines of what you're suggesting, taking them against their will. Different paradigm of thinking, more supportive care as opposed to substituted care in the vernacular of all the quote unquote experts. And we're trying to make up for this. And you'll appreciate this as a Californian. In 1959, at peak 1959, California had 37,000 mental health beds. Today 5,500.

[Michael Savage]

Correct for. Oh, you're Agreeing reopen the mental hospital.

[Gavin Newsom]

For double the population today. So we had half the population in the late 50s and 60s?

[Michael Savage]

Yes, of course.

[Gavin Newsom]

And we had 37,000. So what we're doing, we just did this initiative, Proposition one to provide six plus thousand new units that were all throughout the state. And we're regionalizing along the lines of what you're saying. Mental hospitals, literally behavioral health, substance abuse, mental health. And literally it's the biggest investments in US history. Biggest investments.

[Michael Savage]

But do they have to comply?

[Gavin Newsom]

That's what the conservatorship reform, SB43 was about. That's what our care court is about. And we.

[Michael Savage]

So if a guy defecates outside a restaurant window, a cop can arrest him, send them to one of these facilities.

[Gavin Newsom]

They can refer them through the care court. In fact, a police officer, quite literally now, because of my care court, can refer. In the past, they could not refer that individual.

[Michael Savage]

Well, I hope it works. Look, look, we all have a lot at stake in this state and in this city. It's why I don't leave, because I still love the state and the city. But if it's intolerable, at a certain point, everyone will leave. Businesses are leaving.

[Gavin Newsom]

It's interesting. Well, business. We have more Fortune 500 companies than any time the last decade.

[Michael Savage]

But why did they kick SpaceX out? Why would you take.

[Gavin Newsom]

SpaceX is not being kicked out.

[Michael Savage]

Well, they can't launch their rockets because of the coastal.

[Gavin Newsom]

And you saw what did I do. I joined in the law. I'm. I literally said I'm with Elon Musk attacking the Coastal Commission. I couldn't have been. I was very vocal.

[Michael Savage]

You were realist.

[Gavin Newsom]

We had 51 launches last year, which is a record since 1974.

[Michael Savage]

Why would you not want a rocket company in California?

[Gavin Newsom]

Come on. We have the Mojave Desert, we have Vandenberg and we have Rocket beach, which is Long Beach. We're starting to dominate in this space.

[Michael Savage]

I hope so.

[Gavin Newsom]

We, and we have record breaking launches out of Vandenberg, work we're making with relativity. Not just SpaceX, all of these.

[Michael Savage]

You don't want to go to Mars, do you?

[Gavin Newsom]

I, I'm not personal. I think a lot of people like Elon want me to go to Mars. I don't want to go reasons.

[Michael Savage]

I don't even want to go over the bridge.

[Gavin Newsom]

So let's talk one. And we're gonna, we're out of time. But I want to just before we're done, I do want to talk about Trump and Trumpism. You have to be pretty proud that the issues of border and language culture. I mean, the president just came out saying English is the right out of my mantra. Right. I mean, this is stuff you've been preaching for decades.

[Michael Savage]

Okay. Salon magazine, left wing magazine, a number of years ago when Trump was president, wrote an article called the Father of trumpamania. And it was about Michael Savage. And it was sort of middle of middle ground, wasn't attacking. And I was told by one of his chief architects, who I will not mention, shortly after he was elected, the first time he visited me, my home in Florida, and he said, michael, we took all of your books. We made talking points. He ran on your platform. I said, okay, fine. Because I know he was a liberal when he was young. In New York, I was a social worker and a Democrat. So people change. One day, you may be a conservative without even knowing it, but. No but, Gavin. So, yeah, I'm the father of a lot of what he's doing. I was honored to see Borders like. But no one's called me from the White House and said, we want to give you the Presidential Medal of Freedom.

[Gavin Newsom]

Interesting.

[Michael Savage]

We recognize that you did this. We think you're great. No one's called.

[Gavin Newsom]

Why do you think that's the case?

[Michael Savage]

It's interesting because in every political entity, there are politics. I'm not involved at all with the in crowd. I don't know them. You mentioned Charlie Kirk.

[Gavin Newsom]

Yeah.

[Michael Savage]

You don't know they have all of these CPACs. I've never spoken at any of these events. Think about that.

[Gavin Newsom]

You haven't.

[Michael Savage]

Do you have the equivalent of a Presidential Medal of Freedom in the state of California?

[Gavin Newsom]

We do. California hall of Fame.

[Michael Savage]

Why am I not in.

[Gavin Newsom]

You are in the Radio hall of Fame.

[Michael Savage]

I'm in the. I'm in the National Radio hall of Fame. But why am I. Okay. You know, Gavin, it's.

[Gavin Newsom]

By the way, thank you for asking that question. It's a good question.

[Michael Savage]

I should be in it.

[Gavin Newsom]

You want things to be lit up. You want me to.

[Michael Savage]

I want a billboard on the highway again.

[Gavin Newsom]

I'm gonna announce you in the California hall of Fame. That will light things up, Mr. Savage.

[Michael Savage]

But I deserve it. I came here in 74. Look what I've done in this state.

[Gavin Newsom]

No. 20. I'm believing you haven't left the state for. A lot of these guys turn their back on California as they're attacking it. You haven't. So I admire that. I do. I mean that.

[Michael Savage]

Well, I don't have to agree with you, nor you with me. For us to sit and have a civilized conversation. It's the only way we're going to solve the problems of the state and the country. And I feel the same thing about the country itself. The left and the right are at each other's throats. They hate each other. And they would like me to have been on this podcast and be screaming and yelling like a foaming idiot. We get nowhere with that. No, it's idiotic.

[Gavin Newsom]

Yeah. And no. And the whole point of this is not to have those conversations, because I. Those I can hear 24. 7 on Spotify.

[Michael Savage]

It's bad for my health, number one. And I don't feel that that gets us anywhere. But before we leave, you brought up Trump and the Borders, language, culture, and then you brought up the things you know, I have to thank you for the Bancroft Library and the Jepsen Herbarium. I think this should be in your podcast because people say, why are you so nice to Gavin Newsom? Well, I'm not that nice to Gavin Newsom. I just don't go out of my way to insult people just for the sake of sounding like an idiot. So a lot of people do. Okay. I reached out to you about five years ago, and I said that I have. The University of Texas is interested in collecting all of my writings, all of my manuscripts, my journals. And I said, they really naturally belong here in California. And you reached out and through the chain, the Bancroft Library came back to me, and they spent two years with me in my archives, taking all of my correspondence, my writings, and, you know, they have the largest collection of Mark Twain papers in the world.

[Gavin Newsom]

Amazing.

[Michael Savage]

And I said to the librarian, who was a lovely lady, I said, don't you feel a little uncomfortable that I'm so called a conservative? She said, michael, we're not here to judge politics. We have conservative authors who are Californians, liberal authors who are Californians. And she said, you have done so much in your life. She said, you have three phases. You're a poet and a novelist. Then you were a botanist and a nutrition writer. Then you're a payment political writer. And she said, we need that in our library. And then I have a collection of medicinal plants, Gavin. They're in the Jepson Herbarium. They're in seven herbaria around the world. Jepson is one. These are the plants. I collect the medicinal plants.

[Gavin Newsom]

Yeah.

[Michael Savage]

You know where else they are?

[Gavin Newsom]

Where?

[Michael Savage]

Moscow Herbarium. I've never been there. Kew Gardens, London, New York Botanical Garden, Chicago Herbarium, and the Honolulu Bishop Museum. So we have a Rare collection of all my collections in the Jepsen Herbarium. Again, this is for scientists to look at for ages. And it's here. And I want to thank you for opening the doors because another governor just said, you know, go pound sand. I'm not interested.

[Gavin Newsom]

No, I appreciate it. And it was an honor to be, however, helpful. I don't know how much helpful are you? I mean, this was on it, on all of it, on. On the merits substantively, and everyone doing the right thing. But when they don't do the right thing, I call it out. I can't stand cancel culture. I love free speech. I can't stand when someone, I remember, Bill Maher, was going to Berkeley or something and they said, Bill's too conservative and too controversial. I've never liked that. Called it out then will continue to. So I don't think anyone served in that respect. All these banning and cultural purges that people have been on.

[Michael Savage]

You don't believe in the Mao cultural.

[Gavin Newsom]

No, I think a lot of people assign and attach those points of view to me. But let me ask you in closing.

[Michael Savage]

Oh, are you putting me in the California hall of Fame?

[Gavin Newsom]

You can put me on the spot. By the way it you've made, you just made the most compelling case you possibly could have for the multi dimensionality here. There are people in that hall of fame that have done basically one simple thing. And here you are, 29 books, best selling books across a spectrum of issues.

[Michael Savage]

Novelist.

[Gavin Newsom]

I know.

[Michael Savage]

And, and you were banned from the uk. Oh, yeah.

[Gavin Newsom]

And you know that they called you, what, propaganda of haters. What was, what was the exact phrase?

[Michael Savage]

I'm the only American author banned in Britain.

[Gavin Newsom]

Yeah.

[Michael Savage]

For things I didn't even say. It was a terrible, terrible thing to do to me. And I woke up that morning, I saw it on the Drudge Report at the time, and I said, oh, my God, I'm banned in England. So I went on the radio show and I said, God, there goes the great cuisine that they're known for in my dental care that I was looking forward to. So everyone loved that line. But I think it's a terrible thing to do to me because first of all, I didn't say the things they said. I said, Secondly, I spent $400,000 to try to get my name off the list and I did not succeed. I gave up. I don't even care.

[Gavin Newsom]

Still on it.

[Michael Savage]

Yeah. I can't go to England. To this day, I cannot enter England, the land of the free. The land of the Magna Carta does not Let Michael Savage in. But they let jihadists run around screaming, kill the Queen.

[Gavin Newsom]

I'm not gonna argue with that.

[Michael Savage]

You know, Stormer, I don't know. I think we may have to. Have you met Stormer?

[Gavin Newsom]

We'll have to bring it up. We'll have to bring it up. Let me ask you.

[Michael Savage]

Just get me off the list.

[Gavin Newsom]

Let me ask you this. Let me. If you were going to list. Speaking of list, you know, Democrats, if they're not trying to figure out what the hell just happened, they sure as hell should, right? So I'm serious about this. I'm, you know, I'm not asking for sort of a flippant. It's not a flipping question, and I hope, certainly not patronizing, but what the hell do you think our party needs to do? And what, what's the biggest lesson? Seriously?

[Michael Savage]

Are you really serious, Michael Savage? My advice to the Democrats, to the.

[Gavin Newsom]

Democratic Party, was it because we're too woke because we didn't focus on borders? I mean, is it, it's what, what is.

[Michael Savage]

It's really straightforward.

[Gavin Newsom]

What is it?

[Michael Savage]

It is borders, language and culture. And, and the thing that triggered most of the people who turned against the Democrat Party was this incessant drumbeat going back years vilifying the white male. White supremacy, white supremacy, white supremacy, remember that? That became a mantra. The Democrat Party, they took all the working class white guys and said, what the fuck? You basically, pardon me, what are you doing, man? We work. We are also citizens. Why are you turning us into Hitlers? Because, you know, so that's what was one thing. Then the illegals getting free care and then the illegals voting in some municipal elections. But the big thing was the women. When you had people with the. Or whatever you want to call it, the whole trans issue triggered the women who were normally liberal, but when you have kids being brainwashed in school to accept that stuff in little into kindergarten, hey, I'm a, I'm a sexual libertarian. I want to be very clear, okay? I really don't care what people do to make themselves happy, okay? This is not my business. Life's very hard. If you can be happy with someone, God bless you, but leave the kids alone. That's the whole point. And when you start crossing that line into the schools, you're going to see what happened. That's what just happened. It was the women and the schools, I think, Gavin.

[Gavin Newsom]

Interesting. So, I mean, the, the trans issue, you thought that, I mean, that that.

[Michael Savage]

Was, it was, it was a children issue. It was, it wasn't the trans no one's against.

[Gavin Newsom]

So was. It was a gender assignment? Surgeries.

[Michael Savage]

Yeah.

[Gavin Newsom]

For these minors.

[Michael Savage]

Yes.

[Gavin Newsom]

Where they felt our party was implicit in terms of creating those conditions.

[Michael Savage]

I think so.

[Gavin Newsom]

Promoting it to some degree, you would argue.

[Michael Savage]

I wouldn't even go there. I would say that the people had had enough.

[Gavin Newsom]

Yeah.

[Michael Savage]

There were so many more important issues. Right. God, faith, and reason. I mean, there's an spirit we didn't even get. Let's do another podcast in a month.

[Gavin Newsom]

I know.

[Michael Savage]

Talk about God and.

[Gavin Newsom]

Which is a big part of your life.

[Michael Savage]

Faith people don't know that big part. I pray every day and have for decades.

[Gavin Newsom]

You have. And you are your. By the way. And then we're going to close on this. You are ascending to a unique status.

[Michael Savage]

Shocking, isn't it?

[Gavin Newsom]

Well, no. I mean. Tell us about it.

[Michael Savage]

The president of a local Jewish community.

[Gavin Newsom]

Yeah.

[Michael Savage]

From a very Orthodox group of Jewish people. The guys that wear black. The black hat people. They like me. And I say to them, I'm not that religious. Why do you want me to become. Reaching out to the community. They said, you're more religious than us in some ways. They watch my podcasts and they don't watch the media. They know that there's a spiritual element to Michael that's palpable, that emanates, and they like it. It's that simple. But does that mean I'm holier than anyone? I am such a fallen angel, Gavin.

[Gavin Newsom]

Well, it's good to be with another fallen angel.

[Michael Savage]

I'll reach across the aisle on that one.

[Gavin Newsom]

It's great to have you, Michael Savage. Thanks for being here with us.