And, This is More With Dr. Phil - Is Free Speech Under Attack?

Summary

Podcast Summary: "And, This is More With Dr. Phil - Is Free Speech Under Attack?"

Podcast Information:

• Title: This is Gavin Newsom
• Host: iHeartPodcasts
• Episode: And, This is More With Dr. Phil - Is Free Speech Under Attack?
• Release Date: June 6, 2025
• Description: Governor Gavin Newsom hosts open and honest conversations with individuals across the political spectrum, addressing pressing societal issues with a focus on respectful debate and mutual understanding.

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Introduction

In this compelling episode of "This is Gavin Newsom," Governor Gavin Newsom engages in a profound dialogue with renowned television personality Dr. Phil McGraw. The conversation centers around the critical issue of free speech in contemporary society, examining the impact of cancel culture, social media's role in shaping public discourse, and specific policies affecting marginalized communities. The episode delves deep into the challenges of fostering open dialogue in an increasingly polarized environment.

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Key Themes

1. Freedom of Speech and Cancel Culture
2. Impact of Social Media on Public Discourse
3. Policies on Transgender Athletes in Sports
4. Book Bans and Censorship in Education
5. Personal Experiences and Political Implications

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Detailed Discussion Points

1. Freedom of Speech and Cancel Culture ([04:24] - [07:26])

Governor Newsom initiates the conversation by addressing the growing concern that freedom of speech is under siege. He references his admiration for Bill Maher and his own experiences observing cancel culture, particularly on university campuses. Newsom highlights instances such as the backlash against Bud Light and Target, emphasizing that cancel culture is pervasive across political lines.

Notable Quote:

• Gavin Newsom ([04:28]): "I think [cancel culture] is out of control and we need to push back against it and own up to it."

Dr. Phil concurs, pointing out that the phenomenon appears more rampant in California, citing the cancellation of Ann Coulter at Berkeley as an example.

Notable Quote:

• Dr. Phil McGraw ([05:07]): "It seems like in California we've got the heckler's veto. It's like boo them down or block them from coming."

2. Impact of Social Media on Public Discourse ([09:15] - [27:08])

The conversation shifts to the transformative impact of digital technology and social media. Dr. Phil discusses how platforms like smartphones and the internet have revolutionized communication, introducing challenges such as cyberbullying and the proliferation of conspiracy theories. He underscores the rise of online cults and the ease with which extremist views can spread.

Notable Quote:

• Dr. Phil McGraw ([22:34]): "It's estimated right now that there are between 5 and 10,000 cults active in the United States of America because they operate online."

Governor Newsom echoes these sentiments, reflecting on his personal experiences and the broader societal implications. He emphasizes the necessity of addressing these online challenges to foster a more informed and resilient populace.

3. Policies on Transgender Athletes in Sports ([07:26] - [15:25])

A significant portion of the dialogue centers on the contentious issue of transgender athletes participating in sports. Newsom provides a detailed overview of California's legislative stance, highlighting recent bills that aimed to modify existing policies but failed to pass. He expresses concern over fairness in competitions, especially for cisgender female athletes who may be disadvantaged.

Notable Quote:

• Gavin Newsom ([09:15]): "As someone who's been an advocate for trans rights, I do not think it's fair in these athletic competitions."

Dr. Phil contributes by sharing insights from his interactions with the transgender community, noting that many feel marginalized by aggressive activist agendas. He references academic research that questions the feasibility of creating a level playing field through hormonal interventions.

Notable Quote:

• Dr. Phil McGraw ([12:07]): "She looked at every possible way and the meta-analysis concluded you just can't get there."

4. Book Bans and Censorship in Education ([06:39] - [13:20])

Governor Newsom brings attention to the alarming number of book bans in the United States, citing over 4,240 books and titles being prohibited in the previous year. He criticizes efforts to sanitize historical narratives, such as altering Rosa Parks' story in Florida textbooks. Newsom calls for collective responsibility in protecting free speech and resisting censorship from all political factions.

Notable Quote:

• Gavin Newsom ([07:26]): "We've got to own up to this. Censoring speech in the boardroom, not just in the classroom."

5. Personal Experiences and Political Implications ([15:25] - [36:35])

The conversation deepens as both hosts discuss their personal stances and the repercussions they've faced. Newsom shares how his viewpoints, particularly on sensitive issues like transgender athletes, have strained relationships and led to social ostracization. Despite his advocacy for LGBTQ+ rights, he underscores the complexity of balancing support with concerns about fairness in sports.

Dr. Phil reflects on his long-standing role as a listener and communicator, emphasizing the importance of understanding diverse perspectives to foster growth and empathy. He acknowledges the necessity of civil discourse and the courage required to engage in unscripted, honest conversations.

Notable Quote:

• Gavin Newsom ([36:25]): "Look, there's so much to talk about and I appreciate the spirit to which you've engaged with me and our audience."

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Conclusion

The episode concludes on a note of mutual respect and a shared commitment to fostering open, respectful dialogue. Both Gavin Newsom and Dr. Phil McGraw recognize the challenges posed by current societal trends but remain optimistic about the potential for recovery and unity through understanding and communication.

Final Notable Quote:

• Dr. Phil McGraw ([36:22]): "If people could sit down and have civil conversations like this, that's what it's all about."

Governor Newsom expresses gratitude for the conversation, highlighting the importance of such discussions in bridging ideological divides and promoting a more cohesive society.

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Overall Assessment

This episode of "This is Gavin Newsom" offers a nuanced exploration of free speech in the modern era, delving into the intricacies of cancel culture, the influence of social media, and specific legislative issues affecting marginalized groups. The candid exchange between Newsom and Dr. Phil McGraw provides listeners with valuable insights into the complexities of maintaining open discourse in a polarized world. The inclusion of personal anecdotes and expert perspectives enriches the conversation, making it both informative and engaging for a broad audience.

Transcript

[Dr. Phil McGraw]

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[Gavin Newsom]

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[Gavin Newsom]

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[Dr. Phil McGraw]

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[Dr. Phil McGraw]

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[Gavin Newsom]

This is Gavin Newsom and tune in for more with Dr. Phil. Look, I appreciate everything you said, but I also appreciate the spirit that that behind it. And I think, look, it's One of the reasons we started this podcast, and it's been really interesting. Dr. Phil, I. It's really underscored the nature of. And we. You've talked a lot about Cancel Culture and this incapacity to, To. To. To be willing to engage people you may disagree with. And, and as you say, focus on the things we have in common. But it's interesting how quick people are to judge and how quickly we are all judged. I imagine just the response you got coming out of that Madison Square Garden rally. I imagine just now you're sort of foray with ice and, and maybe just a little bit more into the political realm, how quick people are to judge. And so I think it's incredibly important because divorce is not an option. We're all in this together. And, and, you know, it's becoming more and more exhausting. And as you have rightfully highlighted, you did it in your book, we've got issues, the nature of social media and algorithms and what's going on in terms of how things have become weaponized and how we are increasingly feeling out of control, isolated, disconnected from larger sense of purpose, meaning all the things you've been talking about on your show and the work you've been doing. And so just on that, what more can we be doing? What. What can we be doing to soften the edges of this discourse and begin the process of. Of being. Repairs, proverbially the breach.

[Dr. Phil McGraw]

Do you think freedom of speech is under attack?

[Gavin Newsom]

I think it is. And I've. I've made this point. I. One of the reasons I have long admired Bill Maher and gone on a show a dozen times since my mayor days is I didn't like the way he was being attacked, the freedom of speech, his expression was being attacked on. In my own UC campuses, I've watched Cancel Culture. Never been a champion of Cancel Culture. Of course, I've seen it on all sides. We saw with Bud Light, we saw with Target last year. You know, it occurs. You know, there's boycotts all the time coming from both prisms, the political parties. But I think I. I think it's out of control and, And I think it's something we need to push back against and we need to own up to.

[Dr. Phil McGraw]

You know, it seems to be worse in California than, you know, I've moved back to Texas and, you know, no place is perfect. But, yeah, I see things like. Was it Berkeley where Ann Coulter got canceled? They said it was for security concerns. You can always have security.

[Gavin Newsom]

But that Milo guy, I can't remember his Name I remember sort of the peak of that cancel culture.

[Dr. Phil McGraw]

You know, why do you think that is what it. When I went to school a long time ago. But we always, if somebody was coming that we disagreed with, I always wanted to go hear what they had to say. So I had ammunition.

[Gavin Newsom]

Amen.

[Dr. Phil McGraw]

To debate them with or thank you. Their positions with. And you. You never grow until you dispr. Prove your. Yourself until you. You find something wrong with the way you look at it. But it seems like in California we've got the heckler's veto. It's like boo them down or block them from coming. And I, I see it at, at Berkeley, ucla, usc. And it just seems like how are we ever going to broaden our. Our perspectives if we don't get out of the bubble and at least listen to the other side? You may find out that's exactly why I don't agree with that S.O.B.

[Gavin Newsom]

Exactly.

[Dr. Phil McGraw]

Got to hear them to do it.

[Gavin Newsom]

I couldn't agree with you more. It needs to be called out. I've been trying to do what I can on that. I mean, be candidates. Why I've been calling out all these book bans. 4240 books and titles were banned last year in this country. I mean, censoring, you know, speech in the boardroom, not just in the classroom. You've got. Folks are rewriting history. You've talked a lot about that. But on both sides of the aisle. I mean, they were trying to. One textbook in Florida tried to take out Rosa Parks race and said oh no, she was just a woman who wanted to move. Needed to move her seat. So I, I think we have to own up to this. And I think again, there's plenty of. Plenty of fingers pointed or at least funny people that we can point to. But all of us need to look in the mirror on this issue. I agree with you.

[Dr. Phil McGraw]

As California taken a position on transgender athletes, I hadn't seen what the latest.

[Gavin Newsom]

Well, it did in 2013. In 2013, Governor Brown signed a bill allowing for people to participate. As you know, that issue is. Is very raw and emotional and it's obviously very pointed this moment because of some state championships. There was two bills in the California legislature, Dr. Phil, just a few weeks ago. Neither got out of the committee to change that rule. So it currently is law in the state of California and CIF that, that does the intercollegiate founder, you know, does all the sports. They're trying to find some accommodation that addresses the legitimate concerns around fairness. And I say legitimate concerns about fairness and make sure that those that may have been displaced because they were outperformed by a transgender athlete have the opportunity to still participate and be recognized for that participation. We're also just trying to balance the, some grace, some humility, some humanity, particularly with transgender youth that just want to survive and don't want to be belittled and demeaned at the same time. So it's a, it's a very tough issue. And I know you've tackled that issue. I think you've done it reasonably thoughtfully. I think you've tried to find the nuances here, but it's incredibly difficult issue. And I say this as someone who's been an advocate for trans rights, but I do not think it's fair, these athletic competitions. And I've made that point of view very, very public.

[Dr. Phil McGraw]

Well, this is one of the things where I say that I, I believe that activists are pushing an agenda. And I've had so many transgender individuals on the show over the last 25 years. And I can tell you that they have said to me on the air and off, mostly off the air, that they wish those people would shut up. These shrill activists that are pushing these extreme positions said they're not speaking for us, they're not speaking for the community at large. And they say, look, we're living our lives and there are enough challenges as it is without them pushing these extreme, controversial issues that we don't particularly ascribe to. They're not helping us. That's, that's something that they are just trying to rewrite biology on or they're trying to make a, a battleground and, and they, they do it effectively. I had Professor Carol Hooven on from university, Harvard University, and she had, she didn't even do the research, she was just reporting, did a meta analysis on, I think it was 50 plus studies of others that had looked at the, the biological markers to see whether or not you could balance the playing field among elite athletes. And she looked at if you have testosterone blockers, if you have hormone suppression therapy, and for the required two years before and after poverty, look, puberty, looked at every possible way and the meta analysis conclusion for good methodology with good in, you know, right number of subjects, and they concluded you just can't get there. You, I mean, Even if it's 10% difference in swimming competition among elite athletes, as you know, it's everything, they measure that by hundreds of a second off a fingernail touching the wall, and in a four lap race, 10%, they can be down there kicking off the wall and they're standing there with their arms crossed, waiting for them to make the last lap.

[Gavin Newsom]

No, I wasn't. One of what wasn't the one is, is, and forgive me, wasn't she admonished by the administration over there as well.

[Dr. Phil McGraw]

For just concluding those completely drummed out of the university. Yeah, they're transphobic.

[Gavin Newsom]

Yeah.

[Dr. Phil McGraw]

Spawning hate speech. Yeah, we have.

[Gavin Newsom]

Well, doctor, I, trust me, I know a thing or two about this. I expressed my point of view. I lost a few, I don't need to, we don't need to have a public therapy session here. But I lost some good friends. Like, I mean, they're just, they won't talk to me. They're done. And you know, I, I appreciate they felt hurt. They felt that a point of view was, you know, somehow diminishing. I, I, I, as someone who's been an advocate that I put up against any other elected official, I mean, I have a very strong record as you know, I think the first time I was on your show was, was on the issue of LGBT rights. And I've been an advocate for decades and decades, but on the issue of sports and, and what you just, you know, you laid out as it relates to, you know, many different factors that are unique and for regardless of puberty blockers, I just think this issue we have to address and, and to not address, we are in denial.

[Dr. Phil McGraw]

Well, that's a good point because I remember when you were there and you and I agreed on that. We, we were both advocates for LGBTQ rights. But this is, this is a bridge too far. This is, you have these, these elite athletes. These are kids that get up oftentimes an hour or two before school. I mean, they're up at 4 and 5 o' clock in the morning, working out before school for years.

[Gavin Newsom]

Oh yeah.

[Dr. Phil McGraw]

And then all of a sudden somebody steps in and, and bumps them out of the competition. And it's, I hate to see that.

[Gavin Newsom]

Yeah, well, which I got four young kids, all athletes, wife who was play for the junior national soccer team. I got into college, only got into a four year college because of, of sports. And it's many ways the reason I'm here. So I deeply appreciate how resonant this issue and passionate this issue is at the same time. You know, it's, I humbly submit, Doctor, that I think it's been weaponized by, by some groups. I'm not suggesting by any stretch you have, I think I've listened to you on this topic and I think you've tried to be very thoughtful on it. Others though, are a little less thoughtful and have used this in a way that I don't think advance the larger call that I think you and I are calling for. Just, that's just finding our common humanity and try to unify with, as you suggest, common sense.

[Dr. Phil McGraw]

Yeah. And the sad thing is, I think if it's kind of identity politics, if you don't agree with everything, you're immediately labeled transphobic. And I think they lose some very strong advocates by throwing out the baby with the bathwater.

[Gavin Newsom]

Well, and I'd be in that category. And anyone who suggests that they, that is, they don't know what I, who I am, what I've done. And so I'm very sensitive to the point you just made and I certainly appreciate it.

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[Gavin Newsom]

Hello.

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[Gavin Newsom]

Just on the issues of broader issues that I think just in the spirit of this conversation, you know, when you wrote this book, we've got issues. What was, was this, was this sort of a, the gateway to the new media company? Was this sort of the transition book? What I mean, you, you, you haven't transitioned on your passion for family as sort of the core unit in, in, in faith as well, which I appreciate your commitment to faith, including your new role under the Trump administration. Just tell us a little bit more in the spirit of, of that book. What were you trying to achieve?

[Dr. Phil McGraw]

You know, I, I've, I've always thought, you know, it's funny, they, they, they talk about the general category of Talk show. And it's, it's really interesting that it's, if you're going to be successful, they really should probably call it listening show because if you don't listen to your audience and let them tell you what you need to focus on, you're not going to last very long. And you know, we always refer to Hollywood as a 13 week town. And if you get 13 weeks in Hollywood, you're lucky. And yeah, I was on for 21 years and they wanted me to renew for three more. When I said, no, I'm going to go do my own thing. And there was a difference because Cross was 21 years very unusually, I owned my own show, which as you probably know, that's very rare in Hollywood. The network likes to own the show, but I owned my own show. So I did 3, 800 shows and I own them lock, stock and barrel. So that whole library is, is something I own. And most of those shows are pretty evergreen. And across time I, I had a great staff. And for the whole 21 years I had one executive producer. I had, you know, five supervising producers that were there pretty much the whole time. I had the same seven cameramen for 21 years. I've had the same secretary or they changed what they call them across the years. She's been with me 45 years. So I mean I've, I've had the same team around me. I'm so blessed to have them. And things change. Governor, think about this. I started in 02 and the first text message had never been sent when I started. And think how much things have changed in like 0809 is when they started dropping smartphones on all of us. And I think that's the biggest change in our civilization since the Industrial revolution. And I know there were kind of four industrial revolutions kind of jammed together there, but I think this was the biggest change since mechanization.

[Gavin Newsom]

And by the way, just speaking of jam together, I remember being jammed together right there at the Moscone center in San Francisco in January of 2007 when Steve Jobs comes out with some damn device. Little did we know. But what hit, I'll never forget. It wasn't the device, it was that damn app store in July of 2008 that to your point, changed everything in more ways on more days.

[Dr. Phil McGraw]

Well, you know, kids were going through life like this and then all of a sudden they were going through like this. And I, and we listen and you know, for example, the words cyber and bully had never been used together in the same sentence because there Was no such thing. And then all of a sudden, I, I had to start dealing with cyber bullying. And in fact, I went to Capitol Hill. They asked me to come testify on reauthorization of the elementary and Secondary Education Act. And a lot of my testimony was about, you have to start allocating some funds to dealing with cyber bullying because it's become bullies used to be in the lunchroom or the gym or the bus docks, but now these bullies follow the children home. They can't get away from it. And, and we have to start educating our teachers and start making preparations to deal with this because kids are killing themselves and, and online predators are getting to our children. And so, you know, it started evolving and changing, and, and I had to evolve and change with it. And I remember the first interview I ever gave about the, the Dr. Phil show. Roger King, who was, you know, the biggest force in syndication, he asked me one day, without giving me any warning, he was going to make a sizzle reel to go out and sell the show. And he said, okay, doc, what's the show going to be about? And I'm like, oh, a little caught short. And I remember saying, I'm going to talk about things that matter to people who care, and I want to deliver common sense, usable information to people's homes every day for free.

[Gavin Newsom]

And hard to argue with that.

[Dr. Phil McGraw]

If that doesn't work, then I was busy when you, when you called me, you know, I had, and, and I, I, I've followed that formula all along. And when I got, when I sat down to write We've Got Issues, it was in reaction to hearing my audience move. I think that's my 11th book or 10th book. I, I said I was going to write another book, and then I wrote that one, and it was from listening to them, and they were becoming much more socially conscious, whereas, you know, early on, I was focusing on marriage and family and individual psychological functioning and all of those sorts of individual issues. But I, I saw it change to start to include things like cyberbullying and predators and online scams and things like that. And then of late, I saw him start to really become much more socially conscious about psychosocial issues. And I think it's because they were on the Internet all the time. They were reading things that, you know, eight, nine years earlier. They, they just weren't available to read. And that's when I say I started being aware that, like, some, let's say you had some crazy conspiracy theory, some guy in Omaha or something. Well, that wouldn't Spread very far because he didn't have the ability to reach anyone. But it's estimated right now that There are between 5 and 10,000 cults active in the United States of America because they operate online.

[Gavin Newsom]

Y.

[Dr. Phil McGraw]

They solicit money online, they get followers online, then they might have an annual meeting and recruit people in the real world to come to some compound or whatever. And so I, I started seeing how people were concerned about what was going on at school. And you know, what was being taught at school was critical race theory being taught. Should it be taught? Should parents be notified if, if their children were wanting to change their pronouns? And, and there were pros and cons about that. I think parents know their kids the best and deserve to know what's going on with them. But people react to that like there's this massive movement in the schools to recruit people, children into transgenderism. That's just not true. It is a minuscule number of cases in which that's happening. And they, they talk like this is this huge recruitment. It isn't true. I do think parents should be involved. And those on the other side of the issue say, well, there are a lot of parents who don't react well to that and so the kids can get kicked to the curb or whatever if they take that home. Well, that's why we have the Department of Child and Family Services. That's why we have these social services to support that if they got some mouth breather parent who doesn't stand by their child or, or whatever. So there are two sides to the issue. I get that. But they weren't talking about these things before and now they were. And that's, that's what moved me to. We've got issues. We've got issues and what's going on in the school. We've got issues regarding our economy and people talk about we have this inequality of income. I think the problem is we have a quality of income. If you look at all the giveaway programs and I hear people talking about they want a quality of outcome or the quality of opportunity.

[Gavin Newsom]

Yeah, no, those are things. Help me out on, on the outcome side. Yeah. No, it's about the opportunity. We could talk about some of the tax breaks as well. Some of the carrying interest is on those subsidies as well.

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[Gavin Newsom]

Wasn't that delicious?

[Dr. Phil McGraw]

So good.

[Gavin Newsom]

Your bill, ladies.

[Dr. Phil McGraw]

I got it.

[Gavin Newsom]

No, I got it. Seriously, I pissed. I insisted first.

[Dr. Phil McGraw]

Don't be silly.

[Gavin Newsom]

You don't be silly.

[Unknown]

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[Gavin Newsom]

Okay.

[Dr. Phil McGraw]

Rock, paper, scissors for it. Rock, paper, scissors. Shoot.

[Gavin Newsom]

No.

[Unknown]

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[Gavin Newsom]

Look, there's so much doctor to talk about and, and I appreciate the spirit to which you've engaged with me and in our audience. And one of the things I, I loved about your book, which I did have a chance to read, but more importantly, there's a lot of good life lessons in there. And one, one of just the, the one of those statements that you made in the book that sort of spoke to me is be who you are on purpose. Which is a good way to describe you. This notion of intentionality, but I think that's an important life lesson, is to be authentic, learn from, don't follow others, have some humility and grace, but stand your ground. But also recognize we need to find common ground. And, and I, I hope we found a little of it today. And, and I appreciate your efforts to try to find more of that with Merritt Street Media.

[Dr. Phil McGraw]

Well, I appreciate having the opportunity to talk about these things. I think, like I say, you and I might be on a different side of certain issues and the same side on certain issues, but I think if people could sit down and have civil conversations like this, I mean, that's what it's all about. To me. I think it's important to do, and I'm glad you're doing this podcast. I think people get to hear from you and get to know you better. And I, I think it's, I, I think people are interested in doing that and in knowing you, and I think it's a courageous thing to do because when you open up a, an unscripted conversation like this, that's a, that's a courageous thing to do. It's not campaign speak. It's. It's just, it's just letting people get to know you. And you dodged my question. Are you going to run in 28?

[Gavin Newsom]

That's fate. Will determine that, but we'll, we'll see. Dr. I'm, I'm, you know, better than anybody, as a former California residents, I got my handful in the next year and a half, couple years.

[Dr. Phil McGraw]

You're not ruling it out?

[Gavin Newsom]

I don't. I mean, you're not ruling anything out about your future either, so we'll leave it at that. I appreciate you spending time and, and I'm very grateful, particularly, particularly considering where the heck you are and all the other folks that are, that are buying for your time and attention. So thank you.

[Dr. Phil McGraw]

Anytime. Anytime I can spend time with you. I'm, I'm proud to do it, Honored to do it. And I'll be inviting you to be on my podcast soon and we'll talk about that and, and have you weigh in on some, some big issues. And I hope we can do, I hope we can do this again and do it soon.

[Gavin Newsom]

I look forward to it. Thank you so much, Governor.

[Dr. Phil McGraw]

Thank you. Best to you.

[Unknown]

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[Dr. Phil McGraw]

This is an I Heart podcast.