← This is Gavin Newsom
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- [00:00]
Senator Chris Murphy
Totalitarianism and monopoly go hand in hand. Don't make the health care system any worse, don't jack up premiums on people by 75% and don't act lawlessly. History tells us that when the people stand up, something magical happens.
- [00:13]
Gavin Newsom
I don't need to remind everybody that the government is shut down. But we are not shut out from getting a deeper understanding of what's going on in Washington, D.C. because we have one of the most prominent Democratic voices, someone who has been a fierce defender of democracy and free speech, who is one of the leaders in the resistance against Trump, in Trumpism that can unpack and unveil what's going on with healthcare in this country, what's going on in terms of negotiation with the government shutdown, but also broaden the aperture to what's going on in American cities with the increasing militarization with our National Guard and what's happening to the state of our democracy. This is Gavin Newsom. This is Senator Chris Murphy.
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Gavin Newsom
Crazy weather we're having.
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- [04:05]
Gavin Newsom
Senator Murphy, it's great that you took the time to be with us today. I continue to make this point behind your back. Anytime I'm asked, they said, who do you admire out there in the Democratic Party who from your perspective, particularly in Washington D.C. stands out and every single time first name comes out of my mouth is is you sir. And so I'm grateful for this opportunity to check in and and check up on what's going on in this country, including just what happened. As we were taping this just an hour or so ago, Pam Bondi, the Attorney General of the United States at an oversight hearing that sounded more like cross examination coming from Pam Bondi doing op research on Democratic Senators. What was your reflection of that?
- [04:52]
Senator Chris Murphy
Well Governor, awesome to be with you man. The compliment is turned straight back around. What you're doing out in California is absolutely essential. People need to feel like we are powerful, not powerless right now and you're delivering people that sensation that there's still things we can do to save our democracy. Yeah, I mean, I watched some clips of that hearing. She acts like somebody who works for a guy who believes he's a king, believes that they're accountable to no one. She clearly showed zero deference for the United States Congress and Senate. That's probably understandable, given her combative bond and how much he wants folks out there making news and creating viral clips. But it just is representative of the way the entire administration operates. They're not bound by the law. They're not bound by the Constitution. They don't believe they're accountable to the people. They certainly don't believe they're accountable to the Senate. And I think that's wearing thin on folks. 80% of Americans now say that we're in the middle of a political Crisis. More than 50% of the country is worried about losing their right to free speech in the short term. So I don't think she does her boss any favors by, you know, acting so childish, representing the Department of Justice in front of the United States Senate. I don't know if you think differently.
- [06:13]
Gavin Newsom
It's interesting, and I want to unpack that because I think the point you're making is an important point about how, quote, unquote, unpopular so many of the positions, not just the president, overall popularity itself, but a lot of the positions he has been promoting, including members of his own administration. But I wonder if just in the administration of oversight, did you reflect on that and reflect on the fact that Democrats may need to change their tactics in terms of how they even begin to, you know, prepare for subsequent oversight hearings?
- [06:46]
Senator Chris Murphy
Yeah, I mean, these hearings are becoming jokes because she's not even attempting to answer these questions. You know, when we send basic oversight letters to these agencies to ask questions about how they're spending money, they never, ever respond. And so, yeah, I do think you need to understand that right now they perceive these hearings to be reality TV shows. And you're unfortunately, whether you like it or not, going to have to approach the hearings in. In that way. But I also think, Governor, you know, that we've got to make clear that the oversight here, especially when it comes to the illegality, is permanent. Right. Because someday Democrats are going to be back in charge of the House and the Senate. Someday we're going to have the power of subpoenas. Someday there's going to be people in the Department of Justice who actually want to administer the law on its face. And so I just think we're going to need to say to these folks, know, save your records, because if any of you have committed actual, real illegality, you know, you are ultimately going to have to be held accountable for that, either by being hauled before Congress and be forced to swear in and tell the truth and be held accountable for perjury or before a court of law. So the oversight is going to be much more real and much more forceful when Democrats are back in charge, and.
- [08:13]
Gavin Newsom
We'Ll get to getting back in charge. Talk a little bit about redistricting in 2026, particularly as it relates to not just the Senate, but obviously the House. But first, I want to sort of paint the picture of where we are today. We're now this government shutdown. We haven't broken any records, but we're not necessarily breaking any new ground in terms of breakthroughs based upon at least what I'm reading and understanding and hearing as it relates to the prospects of a deal. What's where do you think things stand at this stage, and how do you think we have positioned ourselves, the Democratic Party, and how do you think we get out on the other side?
- [08:52]
Senator Chris Murphy
Well, I mean, I think it's first of all important to understand that Trump is rooting for a shutdown because he does believe that he has these extraordinary powers. He's come to believe that those powers get bigger in a shutdown. That's not true. He also roots for chaos. And the fact of the matter is there's more chaos when the government is shut down. Cruelty is the point to this administration. And things get crueler when Head Start centers don't open and federal employees don't get their paycheck. But what Democrats priorities are here are pretty damn reasonable. What are we asking for? We're saying, listen, the health care system isn't fair and it's a mess. We, we just don't want it to get worse this fall when premiums are scheduled to increase on people who have Affordable Care act plans by 75%, 100%. So let's just make sure that those premium increases don't go into effect. And then second, let's make sure that if we write a budget that says you have to spend Money in all 50 states, the President is actually required to spend money in all 50 states instead of not spending money in places like California and New York and Connecticut that are represented by Democrats and spending money in states represented by Republicans. So, I mean, our asks are pretty minimalist. Just don't make the health care system any worse. Don't jack up premiums on people by 75% and don't act lawlessly if we get those two things included in this budget, then I think you're going to see Democratic votes. And I think increasingly the American public are beginning to see that, you know, what we're asking for is pretty damn popular and not terribly piggish.
- [10:30]
Gavin Newsom
And it seems to have been reflected in the President's own comments where seemed at least politically attuned to the popularity of health care and the imperative to actually figure this out, suggesting that he's, quote, unquote, a Republican but likes health care and thinks he can, quote, unquote, make a deal, but doesn't seem to me there's any substantive conversations or are there substantive conversations being held?
- [10:55]
Senator Chris Murphy
There are not. And the clearest evidence of how unserious Republicans are about negotiating is the fact that they're not here. So the House of Representatives is not in session. This is the third week that they've been on kind of an unscheduled recess. Part of that is that they don't really want to negotiate a way out of the shutdown. Part of that we could talk about it is that they're about to vote on the Epstein resolution and the minute they come back into session, a new Democrat will be sworn in, giving them the magic number of votes on a resolution that would force a debate and vote on the Epstein resolution. But no, there are no real negotiations happening right now. But those premium increases are getting closer and closer and closer. And as more Americans get their notices that they're about to see a $5,000, $10,000 increase in premiums, the pressure is going to mount on Republicans to come to the table and reopen the government while also making sure that people don't get hurt from a health care perspective. And I mean, you know, the real world consequences here, we're not talking about numbers. This isn't about politics. This is, you know, people who are going to have to make a really hard decision about whether to keep their health care or let it lapse and potentially face bankruptcy or pay the increased premium and just, you know, have their kids go without lunch three days a week or just not have Christmas presents under the tree this winter. I mean, there are real consequences to these premiums spiking for middle class families all across the country.
- [12:28]
Gavin Newsom
Yeah, I think, I mean, the magnitude of those, those premium increases are pretty jaw dropping. We did, we just put out in California, which of course we provide more coverage than any other state just by the dairy nature and size and scope and scale of our state. But we have very familiar here on the exchange in California, what they Call the bronze plan, which is the middle plan for folks and Anthem. And you got premiums that will go from $307 to $964 a month. I mean, it's just so it's on average, we talk about the aggregate, but people will see tripling in some cases up to 388% and an average of 97% of those increases. And we expect 600,000 people to lose insurance because they can't afford it. California, and I know we're talking four plus million across the United States. So I appreciate the painting of that picture with clarity and sticking to two easy issues to understand. Congressionally approved appropriations, Congress, the purse. Here's where money we both approved, the legislative and executive branch, where it needs to go. And the president shouldn't unilaterally change that course, that commitment, that direction and health care. But I'm curious if I could just step back, Senator, what was. Without breaking confidence, but I'm curious. The Democratic Caucus, the determination last time not to move forward with the government shutdown. Lessons learned. The expectation that you needed to prepare for this moment, particularly with someone, as you suggest, that was more interested in golfing before the shutdown and obviously had no interest in meeting with the leaders because he canceled that first meeting and then in that last meeting just trolled those leaders in the Oval office with a 2028 Trump hat. He was never serious, to your point, about negotiating. But knowing that, what was the journey since the last time we decided to continue to allow government to stay open to the determination this time to get a little bit tougher in terms of the approach.
- [14:32]
Senator Chris Murphy
Yeah. We have so few moments of leverage, moments where we have power as a minority. Right. Republicans, whether we like it or not, they run the White House, the House and the Senate. And so when they do need our votes, I mean, it's really our moral responsibility on behalf of the people we represent to stand up for things we believe in. Not to be Pollyannish about what we're ultimately going to get, but to stand up for a few things that'll help people. You know, I disagreed with the decision back in the fall to vote for a budget that was essentially written only by Republicans that didn't solve any of the problems that they were in the midst of creating. But, you know, a few things are different that I think, you know, allows Democrats to be right now really united around using our leverage. You know, one, you know, people see Trump, I think, more clearly now than they did back then. His approval ratings are, you know, 10 points lower to the pain is more real now that that big beautiful bill is passed. Premiums are about to go up on millions of Americans. So the pain is acute right now in a way that maybe it wasn't in March. And then, you know, back in March, I think there were a lot of folks who were worried about his attacks on democracy, but maybe were sort of hoping for the best case. Now they see that we are in the middle of a totalitarian takeover. If it's not arrested, if it's not stopped, they are trying to rig the rul and thank goodness for you and what you're doing in California. They are trying to create a state run media. They are trying to use the Department of Justice to suppress dissent and lock up their critics. So that level of alarm is much higher. And I just think it's not just Democrats who want us to fight and draw a line. It's a big part of the middle of the country too. So the demand for us to show power I just think is a lot more amplified today than it was back in the spring. Which is also why so many people all around this country, left middle and center, are cheering what you're doing to show that we are not powerless against his efforts to try to rig the rules.
- [16:45]
Gavin Newsom
So where do you see, I mean, is this, we look in another week, two month, I mean you're going to be back at this in seven, six and a half weeks or six weeks. Isn't there another, this sort of date with destiny in terms of just extending this narrative even? I know we're talking about this continuing resolution, seven weeks, but that just gets us to another point where we're going to have another potential shutdown. I mean, is this the bond markets that ultimately we're going to determine that we're going to break this chill. Is it the stock market that ultimately is going to force everybody to come to the table? What's, what's your gut?
- [17:21]
Senator Chris Murphy
Yeah, I mean, my gut is that Republicans are already starting to sweat a little bit. Something interesting happened just about 10 minutes ago. So we had our lunches today. The Republicans all huddled for a lunch, Democrats all huddled for lunch. And the Republicans came out of their lunch with a brand new message, one that we hadn't heard before. Their message today was, well, Democrats have this big protest coming up. This is the no Kings rally on October 18th. And so they want to keep the government shut down until the no Kings rally, which I never heard from them before. They clearly knew that what they were saying yesterday wasn't working. And they're scrambling to come up with some new message. And I think it's just all a sign, Governor that, you know, they are feeling the heat because they're getting more and more calls and emails from constituents who are like, hey, we're, what the hell are you going to do about this 75% increase? So my guess, if I had to like put money on it today, is that this isn't another month that Republicans come to the table sometime soon and say listen, help us help ourselves. Let's get rid of these premium increases. And listen, that, that would, that would help a lot of people and it would show, you know, for the first time all year that, you know, the Democratic party has fight and has relevance.
- [18:43]
Gavin Newsom
Interesting. Well, I love the optimism. I mean it would be a hell of a victory for millions and millions of Democrats, Republicans, independents. To Your point, there's 20 plus million people that are directly impacted, millions more indirectly impacted. It's not Democrats or Republicans. These are Americans and that would be extraordinary outcome.
- [19:03]
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Gavin Newsom
Take a deep dive into the stories making the news headlines across the world.
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Senator Chris Murphy
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- [22:19]
Gavin Newsom
See mintmobile.com Let me ask you just you know, in terms of you've used the word totalitarian. We started as it relates to the oversight conversation about use the word kings, not just in relationship to the October 18th Nome Kings Rally. I mean I remember the old Chris Murphy that was the bipartisan working across the aisle actually producing real results. You know, I'm old enough to remember the most significant least in my lifetime, 30 plus years, safer communities act, the work you did, mental health and gun safety in a bipartisan way. But I've noticed much more. Well, I don't want to say strident, but I see a Democrat who's leading the resistance that has more clarity on free speech in terms of more conviction perhaps and expression around it as well as democracy and using language that I understand that I think is very resonant I'm curious, your own evolution in that respect. And was there a moment that sort of hit you where you said, boy, I'm going to dial things up a little bit.
- [23:20]
Senator Chris Murphy
Well, I mean, I appreciate that coming from you because we have also watched you at a moment where this party has been desperate for leadership, bold leadership. We've seen you step out and frankly, take risks, which is what I think this country is desperate for us to do, to show that we understand the gravity of this moment and show that we are willing to take risks on behalf of saving the democracy. And Prop 50 is a risk, right. Not destined to succeed, but. But, but can and will if we put our work behind it. So I appreciate you saying that. Yeah, listen, I just see these guys and I saw these guys early. They are not Democrats, small D, you know, inside the Republican Party they have come to believe over the last four years that democracy is just not worth it any longer if it elects Democrats. They have come to believe that, you know, our support for multiculturalism and civil rights and human rights and feminism is, you know, an assault on the very idea of Americanism. And their version of Americanism is a Christian, white, male dominated America. So they want to get rid of us at any cost. And if that cost is the erasure or the weakening of democracy, then they're willing to live with that. So to me, this is all a plan. I mean, a really well thought out plan to capture the media, to use the DOJ to witch hunts, to rig the rules, to change the facts as an attempt to just try to suffocate the opposition so that we don't have enough room to operate. And the last thing I'll say is that I think some people say, well, as long as there's no cancellation of elections, we're in good shape. Well, I don't think they're canceling the elections. I think they're just going to, you know, do what they've done in Turkey and Hungary and other countries like that where the opposition party still exists, but they just, you know, don't have enough space to operate or the rules are changed, like the shape of districts so that even if the president is wildly unpopular, we can't win. I just see these guys and I know it sounds extreme to suggest that Republicans are actually trying to engineer an erosion or a destruction of our democracy. And I don't think every Republican believes that. There's still a lot of Republicans in the Senate who want to protect democracy. But there are some real radicals inside the White House who do have plans to convert America to something different than liberal democracy. And I just think we have to see it and understand it so that we recognize as you are, how loud our fight has to be.
- [26:05]
Gavin Newsom
How do we overstate or do we understate the influence of the OMB director Russ Vote?
- [26:13]
Senator Chris Murphy
I mean, I think he's just, you know, one of many in that White House who's, you know, operationalizing this plan to, you know, constrict the space that the opposition has to to operate. I mean, what he's doing recently is another tried and true tactic of would be authoritarians. He's, you know, pausing funding for Democratic states and he's, you know, hoping that Democrats will essentially bend or self censor themselves so that they get their money turned back on. It wasn't lost on any of us in the Democratic caucus that when they canceled a whole bunch of energy projects. One of the states that was exempted was Nevada. One of the two Democratic senators from Nevada voted for Trump's continuing resolution. So it was a very clear signal if you vote with me as a Democrat, your money will continue. If you don't vote with me, the money's turned off. So, you know, I just think he's playing his role. But I tend to think that it's more Stephen Miller and that crowd out of the White House that's orchestrating a lot of the day to day operations of trying to undermine our democratic norms.
- [27:21]
Gavin Newsom
And those democratic norms now include the militarization of American cities. We saw that obviously firsthand here in California. Not just with the federalization of the National Guard, thousands and thousands of but 700 active duty Marines that were sent to a US city. We said it at the time. This is a preview of things to come. Obviously Washington D.C. has its own criterion conditions, but clearly takes shape there and now taking shape in cities large and small. Portland, attempting to militarize those streets with a federal judge appointed by Trump who correctly has put a pause. But that's not necessarily the case. And you brought up Stephen Miller with what he's been able to effectuate in the city of Chicago. Give us your sense of that trend line that's growing headline now and where you think things may go if we're not successful in pushing back.
- [28:17]
Senator Chris Murphy
Well, it's incredibly dangerous. And I do think you have to put it in this broader context. You know, at the same time that they are sending our troops into Portland and Chicago, they are also getting ready a campaign to crack down on what they term far left terrorist groups. But that list may include Indivisible and move on. Just basic run of the mill progressive activist groups may all of a sudden be targeted by the Department of Justice or by the irs. And so what they are doing is using the military, using the Department of Justice, using the IRS to try to convince people that you're just better off staying on the sidelines. Right. I mean, we'd be naive to think that troops in your city doesn't have an impact on people's willingness to show up and protest. We'd be naive to think that the threat of IRS action against your not for profit chills your interest to speak truth to power. Say what you think is true about the immorality of this administration. So again, I think it's part of this big broader plan. And again, it just raises the stakes on this budget fight because, yeah, I want to get people's health care saved, but I also have no moral obligation to vote for a budget that funds the destruction of our democracy, that funds those operations at the Department of Defense, at the Department of Revenue, at the Internal Revenue Service. So that's why this budget has to be not just good for our health care system, but good for our democracy too.
- [29:53]
Gavin Newsom
What do you make of, you know, in that big, beautiful bill, as they describe it, the ability now for ICE to increase its ranks by upwards of 10,000 personnel, which would make it the largest domestic police force anywhere in the world. And increasingly, it seems pretty obvious to anyone paying attention, a political domestic police force that appears not to be as committed to an oath to the Constitution, but to the oath to the President himself, at least how it's played out in my state. What do you make of what's happening there? Not just with the federalization of the Guard and the militarization of American cities, but with ice, with Border Patrol, masked men disproportionately out in the streets, sidewalks, parks, playgrounds, in and around churches, schools, courthouses.
- [30:44]
Senator Chris Murphy
You know, I'd say two things, and again, I think you have better than anybody else called out the moral consequences of a private police force loyal to the president and not necessarily the rule of law, doing violence to our neighbors without regard on most days as to whether those neighbors have committed a crime or not. But one, I think it's really important to understand that this isn't popular and Democrats have been really reluctant to talk about anything connected to immigration. Yeah, I think the Democratic Party should get stronger on a message of a secure border. But I also think that folks really don't like what's happening now. And we don't appear to folks as legitimate opposition if we're remaining silent. So folks want a secure border, but they also don't want ICE going after immigrants who are basically playing by the rules and having committed no violent offenses. So I think that that's really, really important to understand that we've got to talk about what's happening and that the people will be with us.
- [32:05]
Gavin Newsom
Do you think? I mean, one of the things that I appreciate, many things that I appreciate about you is your willingness to do your own forensics, your own analysis on what went right, what went wrong in the last election. But you broadened it. You wrote one. I think the best, maybe the best piece, quite literally, that I've read, looking back at where our party is looking at the present and arguing for a different future, is your sense that our party is finding its footing again now. I mean, on the basis we could talk a little bit more, maybe unpack, maybe you can illuminate the viewers and listeners about what you argued is the challenge for our party. But is your sense now that we are back on firmer footing than when you wrote that piece a number of months ago, do you feel like our party is in better shape or worse shape? Are we finding our voice? Is this shutdown, in a perverse sense, helpful in terms of just organizing that voice and a clarity of what's at stake?
- [33:09]
Senator Chris Murphy
All right, well, I'm going to turn that question back around on you, too, but, I mean, the polling would not tell you that our party is in good shape today. I mean, we are historically unpopular. And part of that is just, you know, people expressing their frustration about Trump's lawlessness through their indictment of the opposition that they would hope could have arrested more of it. But, yeah, he's giving us an opportunity. Right? He has been exposed as a fake populist. Right. He is simply operationalizing government to steal from poor people, cut their health care, to enrich himself. And so that really commands us to try to figure out why we've lost so many votes amongst poor people in this country, because they're now questioning whether this guy is actually righteous, whether this guy actually is looking out for them. But they're not ready to vote for Democrats. And that's for a couple of reasons. A, they think we're just as corrupt as Republicans are. And so until we get more forceful in the way that we talk about how we would reform government if we were back in charge, like maybe a constitutional amendment to ban private money, corporate money, anonymous money from campaigns, they're just going to sort of think that we're all the same stripe. And then two, you know, they perceive us Democrats often to be pretty judgmental about them if they don't line up with us on all of our social and cultural priorities. And so, you know, I've gotten in some hot water amongst our friends because I've said, listen, I think we should be a party who has a tent pole of unrigging our economy and unrigging our democracy. And then we should try to let into that coalition people who might not agree with us on all of the hot button issues, even guns. That doesn't mean I stop fighting any harder for those things. I just think we could win a lot more elections if we were perceived as being, as I said, a little less overtly judgmental of people who don't believe in everything that me or Gavin Newsom or Kamala Harris believes in. Let's just open up the aperture a little bit to who we invite in and we might find ourselves winning more elections and being able to get a lot of good stuff done for the country.
- [35:25]
Gavin Newsom
So is it, is it your sense that we're coming to our senses in that respect, or is it still so situational as you opened up about Trump and Trumpism and sort of the crisis at hand in this moment and that we're still sort of in this fight or flight in terms of playing defense right now before we then get back, dust off and really talk about that positive alternative to Trump and Trumpism that is more inclusive, that broadens our appeal to more people?
- [35:52]
Senator Chris Murphy
Yeah, I think it's probably the former. I think we are right now seized with this fight. And of course, it doesn't really matter if we correct from a policy or messaging standpoint, if we don't have an election in 2026 or we don't have a free and fair election. So it is kind of essential, at least in 2025, for us to make sure that we don't lose our Democracy within this 12 month period of time. But I think we could probably do a better job of walking and chewing gum at the same time. I don't know, Gavin. It's just to me, you know, we became a party that kind of became addicted to incrementalism. You know, we thought that these little adjustments on the margins of the market could, you know, make people's lives better. I just want us to be for big ideas again, ideas that are as big as the solutions that people face. And again, in the way that you're attacking this threat to democracy, you've kind of modeled a belief in big ideas. And Trump has big ideas. They're racist, irresponsible, divisive ideas. The Democratic Party is going to have to have some bigger ideas if we want to convince people that we know how hard their lives are.
- [37:03]
Propane Energy Announcer
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- [37:35]
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How are the test scores? How many kids do a classroom? Homes.com knows these are all things you ask when you're home shopping as a parent. That's why Each listing on Homes.com includes extensive reports on local schools, including photos, parent reviews, test scores, student teacher ratio, school rankings and more. The information is from multiple trusted sources and curated by homes.com's dedicated in house research team. It's all so you can make the right decision for your family. Holmes.com, we've done your homework.
- [38:06]
Gavin Newsom
Take a deep dive into the stories making the news headlines across the world.
- [38:10]
The News Agents Podcasters
The News Agents we're not just here to tell you what's happening, but why? From me, Emily Maitlis and me John Sopel with Global's award winning podcast the News Agents Dropping daily covering everything you need to know about politics and current.
- [38:23]
Gavin Newsom
Affairs and The News Agents USA listening.
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- [38:36]
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- [38:52]
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- [39:01]
Senator Chris Murphy
2.
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Seriously, it's $15 a month. 3. No big contracts.
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4.
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I use it.
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My mom uses it.
- [39:08]
Gavin Newsom
Are you.
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- [39:22]
Gavin Newsom
Couldn't agree with you more. I mean those talk about trend lines that have become headlines. You've got an economy for decades that hasn't been working for folks. And one of the areas that I admire you're so focused on is young people and this notion of loneliness and isolation and underscoring sort of the economic trend lines that are now finally being recognized. The 30 year old today living is doing worse than his parents, which the first time in US history that's ever been the case. And the more time I spend online, more time I spend offline, more time I spend with my own kids, I can appreciate this sense almost of desperation that I will never, ever afford the home I'm growing up in or even imagine being able to pay rent even if I have two or three roommates or be able to continue to afford the quality of life that you or my parents are enjoying. And so I think this notion of moving away from incrementalism is important. But I also want to unpack this notion of isolationism and this notion that increasingly people are sort of understanding and unpacking. And you've written a lot about it. Maybe you can illuminate us to your thoughts in that respect.
- [40:36]
Senator Chris Murphy
No, I appreciate it because there's a radical change happening in America today and it does explain a lot of our incivility and a lot of our political anger. We've gone through really a period of great social withdrawal. And it's not just the pandemic. It really dates to the moment those smartphones got dumped in our pockets. Today, the average adult spends half as much time every week with friends and family in person than they did just 30 years ago. The fall off in socialization has been even more severe for our kids, in Some instances spending 60, 70% less time in in person communion than they were just generations ago. You know, you have to work longer hours now to be able to make ends meet, so there's less leisure time available for you. We have a isolation and loneliness epidemic in this country. And you know, the Surgeon general under Biden talked about, you know, how that has health consequences. You're more likely to have heart disease, dementia if you're spending more time alone. But it has practical considerations for our politics. I mean, I bet you a lot of those people who were rioting at the Capitol on January 6th were pretty lonely people that came to believe these conspiracy theories about Democrats because they were first sad about their loneliness and then they were angry about it and they wanted to take it out on somebody. So, you know, I just think that, you know, in that founding document it says that government is supposed to guarantee the right to pursue happiness. And happiness is rooted in your career, but mostly in your relationships, mostly in how connected you feel to your community. So I would love a conversation about how we kind of unwind this cycle of social withdrawal. And I think we should start with our kids. You and I have been raising kids in this age of smartphones. You and I talked about it last time we saw each other in person. I remember you having done a better job than I have and my kid's mom has in keeping our kids away from that technology. But, you know, you could just start by restricting the access kids have to social media, giving them a chance at meeting each other more often and then maybe that would spin them into healthier adults. I just think it's a real important and unifying conversation because like right and left don't feel differently about the poison that's being handed to our kids. They want us to step up and do something.
- [43:06]
Gavin Newsom
I completely concur in terms of just the universality of the concerns and the consideration of how we can. I mean, this is about communitarianism, it's not about political party. It's about our shared experience, shared humanity. And I think this explains more things in more ways on more days in terms of our politics and unpacking that is critical in the interest of trying to sort of unpack more issues and distill in a very short period of time. I want to unpack a little bit about your reference a moment ago. That very much is in line with what we were just talking. You mentioned media in passing. You obviously have tried to meet the moment with the Nope act, which I want to talk about in a second in relationship to what happened with Jimmy Kimmel. But there's a lot happening with social media. TikTok now appears to be transferring hands to American investors. Disproportionate number that have strong ties to the Trump administration. We've seen what's happened with Paramount deal and obviously new announcement to the new Barry Weiss who's going to be running cbs. And just a shift now. Consolidation in the hands of fewer and fewer people. It seems like more oversight or at least more settlements that imply more oversight, including with YouTube that's sending 22 million dollars of a 24 and a half million dollar settlement to build a new ballroom that has not by the way been impacted by the government shutdown, the construction there. I mean, what's your, what's your sense of what's happening in the media landscape in this.
- [44:43]
Senator Chris Murphy
Well, that doesn't sound too good when you, you know, lay it out that way.
- [44:47]
Gavin Newsom
Leading question here.
- [44:49]
Senator Chris Murphy
Well, I mean like, you know, this, you know, totalitarianism and monopoly go hand in hand. You know, it's really important to, you know, somebody that's seeking to contract the space for dissent to, you know, be able to pull the levers of media control. And it's really, really worrying that increasingly there's a really small number of people in this country who control the platforms upon which we communicate. The algorithms really matter. There's and control the sources of news that we all consume. You mentioned this one company that's essentially controlled by the Ellison family. They're very, very close to Donald Trump. They just bought up Paramount which owns CBS and immediately installed Barry Weiss, right leaning commentator in charge of the news. They now are looking to buy an even bigger media company that includes cnn. They may have control of TikTok. I mean this is one it could have CBS, CNN, TikTok and you saw what happened to Kimmel. When the state starts to use its regulatory power to act on small and medium sized actors and say if you want to keep your license or you want to ever get a merger approved, you've got to listen to us in terms of who can speak and who can't speak again. This is, you know, what's been happening in Hungary over the past 20 years is that the government, you know, just starts to cut deals with very rich people, will let you take ownership over this media company and we'll make you, we'll let you make a lot of money off of it. But you have to tilt the coverage towards us. And it's pretty clear and in fact pretty brazen and transparent that that's what Trump is trying to do. So you know, we've got to, you know, speak up about that. But we also have to tell people that if you put Democrats in charge, we're going to do something about these media monopolies. I think that's actually pretty popular because I think folks out there don't like the fact that the news is being controlled by a small handful of individuals and companies in this country.
- [47:00]
Gavin Newsom
So after what occurred with Jimmy Kimmel and the FCC and concerns, you introduced an actual strategy to respond to that. Not just rhetoric but actual legislative plan referred to and you're of an act. There's the nope Act. Unpack that what's the N and O and P and E stand for?
- [47:21]
Senator Chris Murphy
Well, you know, it is important also to just remember that, you know, Kimmel's back on the air.
- [47:26]
Public Rec Announcer
Right.
- [47:26]
Senator Chris Murphy
And it's another demonstration of, you know, our power. In that case, it was commercial power that we, you know, used our power as consumers to say to Disney, listen, there's going to be consequences to you if you essentially engaged in Trump's censorship regime. And we can do that again through our commercial power. But we also have that same power politically. So, yeah, the Nope act is, you know, is a, is a bill about banning political prosecutions. So we just set up a whole new set of common sense defenses that individuals would have in court if they ever got prosecuted for free speech. Now, it's illegal to arrest somebody just because they're protesting the government, but that hasn't stopped Trump from doing it. I don't remember if it was Stalin or some other famous totalitarian once, you know, said, show me the person and I'll find you the crime. Right. Like, you know, you can dig up something somebody has done and alleged that it's a crime, even though your underlying motivation is really to punish their speech. What this bill does is just set up a number of defenses you can raise in court if you believe you're being persecuted for speech and allows you to ultimately collect attorneys fees and have repercussions against the charging agent if it turns out that you are unconstitutionally pursued for your political activity. So, listen, I don't, I don't have any illusions that that bill is going to pass in a Republican Congress. But, you know, it's just another way for us to raise for folks the specter of what they're doing.
- [49:04]
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- [49:36]
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How are the test scores? How many kids do a classroom? Homes.com knows these are all things you ask when you're home shopping as a parent. That's why Each listing on Homes.com includes extensive reports on local schools, including photos, parent reviews, test scores, student teacher ratio, school rankings, and more. The information is from multiple trusted sources and curated by Holmes.com's dedicated in house research team. It's also you can make the right decision for your family. Holmes.com we've done your homework.
- [50:06]
Gavin Newsom
Take a deep dive into the stories making the news headlines across the world.
- [50:11]
The News Agents Podcasters
The News Agents we're not just here to tell you what's happening. But why? For me, Emily Maitlis and me me John Sopel with Global's award winning podcast the News Agents dropping daily covering everything you need to know about politics and current affairs.
- [50:24]
Gavin Newsom
And The News Agents USA listening to.
- [50:27]
The News Agents Podcasters
The News Agents on America's number one podcast network, iHeart. Open your free iHeart app and search the news agents to start listening.
- [50:37]
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- [50:53]
Gavin Newsom
Buzz Knight from Taking a Walk. Lexus believes in the importance of standards. One of my standards, I never want to be late. I always want to show up on time. For Lexus, the standard is simple experience. Amazing. Their benchmarks aren't stats or specs, they're feelings, exhilaration, joy. That sense your car was designed just for you. Machines built to make you feel more human because a car that doesn't make you feel something is a car that stops short of amazing experience. Amazing at your Lexus dealer. So let's in finishing up here, I want to sort of go back to the beginning and just, you know, you made the point on multiple occasions, including the reference to how people really use their voice and express their disdain for what occurred and put a lot of pressure on Disney and Kimmel. Getting back on air in no large part was because of people exercising their free speech and pushing back. You mentioned the no Kings rally on October 18th. You mentioned as well Indivisible and other organizations that you've been supporting and we're grateful and you've been champion for so many of these, these, these sort of democratic small d organizations all across this country. What, you know, where, where do you see things going as we map out 20, 26? I mean, there it's pretty clear Trump would have made those phone calls. First one being to Greg Abbott said he's entitled to five seats in Texas and those subsequent phone calls. So you saw that poor Indiana governor who said I had no choice and he publicly said it out loud because he would take my money. Just think about that. I mean, president said he's entitled to five seats, and I don't think enough people paid attention to what the governor of Indiana said of why he's moving with redistricting just under, just the auspices of being threatened with government money. What do you make of where we are and where we'll be this time next year in terms of our prospects not only for the House Representatives, but the United States Senate? And how important are these organizing groups, the no Kings rally, and the momentum that we need to build in terms of sharing our voice between now and then in terms of getting back into control and power?
- [53:19]
Senator Chris Murphy
Well, you know, you mentioned, you know, before, maybe my, my overoptimism about our ability to get Republicans to do the right thing on the shutdown. I don't know. My feeling is that people like you and me kind of have to be absurd optimists to stick in this business for as long as we have. But I'm optimistic about a. Our ability to defend democracy and our ability to win next November. Yeah, I think a lot of it has to do with the success of your effort and the success of other states efforts to try to balance out the harm that they're doing in places like Texas and Indiana. But there's this really interesting study that was done some years ago that looked at democracies that were crumbling, right. That were being challenged by an elected leader who essentially wanted to stay in power forever. And what they found, what the study found, is that there's kind of a magic number, a magic number of citizens that once they hit the street, end up just putting the sand in the gears of that descent away from the democracy. The number is sort of 2, 3% of the people. I think on October 18th, we're going to maybe see record numbers of people all around this country standing up and speaking out. And that will, you know, cause just a little bit of concern amongst Republicans who think, well, maybe this isn't as strong a bet as I thought. You know, maybe I am going to lose my seat if I continue to endorse this corruption. Maybe that'll give a little bit more confidence to some corporate CEO or some leader of a school or a law firm out there to say no to the attempts at bullying. So I just think it's still in our hands. History tells us that when the people, people stand up, something magical happens, whether it's fear on the other side, courage to allies who had been sitting on the sidelines. We still have the ability to save this thing. And again, you know, all, you know, all credit to what you are doing in California, which in many ways is the center of our, you know, national effort to resist. Whether it was what you did to raise issue with the deployment of federal troops, what you've done to stand up to his uses of spending power to bully states into submission, or Prop 50. I think we'll have a big turnout on the 18th. I think we'll continue to grow indivisible and move on local groups. And in the end, I think we'll be in a strong position. Now, Senate's hard next November, no doubt about it. Like, if you had an outcome where we won the House and we didn't win the Senate, that wouldn't, you know, spell doom for democracy, that would still be a good day. But, you know, if his approval ratings stay down in the low 30s, mid-30s, we got a chance to win places like, like Texas, flip a couple seats that people maybe weren't expecting in the Senate and maybe surprise.
- [56:05]
Gavin Newsom
Folks love to hear that optimism. And it's a reminder, you know, Justice Brandeis said it better than any of us. In a democracy, the most important office is office of citizen, this notion of active, not inert citizenship. And we saw that the last big protest a few months back. And I hope on October 18, everybody is hearing Senator Murphy loud and clear. The opportunity to really, you know, not just show up for ourselves, but show up for each other, show up for our founding fathers. They didn't live and die. To watch 249 years of these enduring principles of, you know, co. Equal branches of government, popular sovereignty, the rule of law, be replaced by, as we've said, the rule of dawn. And so I'm grateful, Senator, for all your leadership. And I encourage everybody listening, watching. I don't remember under. What was it, a blog that you wrote yourself? Was it published in some fancy magazine?
- [57:05]
Senator Chris Murphy
I wrote some. Yeah. I wrote something longer. I think it was for. I don't remember what it was. American Prospect, I think that's where it was. I talked about.
- [57:14]
Gavin Newsom
Google it.
- [57:14]
Senator Chris Murphy
Yeah, Google it, sort of. It was about the realignment of America and how, you know, there's, there's a lot of folks out there who want to break out of Trump's camp but need the Democratic Party to feel a little bit more sincere and a little bit more robust in the way that we attack concentrated power. So hopefully I'm right.
- [57:32]
Gavin Newsom
I. It was, it was a long piece and it deserved to be long. And it was. Every word was important. And I can't impress upon people more the importance of taking a look at it because you brought in the Aperture and you really looked at our party more broadly and connected to cultural issues more larger societal issues, not just tactical or situational issues. And again, I'll end as I began, one of the brightest lights in the Democratic Party, guy who shows up every single day online offline Senator Chris Murphy. Thanks for being with us.
- [58:06]
Senator Chris Murphy
You're my hero, man. Thanks a lot.
- [58:07]
Gavin Newsom
Thank you brother.
- [58:16]
Senator Chris Murphy
Ah, come on.
- [58:17]
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- [58:19]
Senator Chris Murphy
This thing is ancient.
- [58:20]
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- [58:34]
Senator Chris Murphy
Whoa, this thing moves.
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- [59:19]
Gavin Newsom
Take a deep dive into the stories making the news headlines across the world.
- [59:24]
The News Agents Podcasters
The News Agents we're not just here to tell you what's happening, but why? From me, Emily Maitlis and me, Jon Sopel with Global's award winning podcast the News Agents Dropping daily covering everything you need to know about politics and current.
- [59:37]
Gavin Newsom
Affairs and the newsagents USA listening to.
- [59:40]
The News Agents Podcasters
The newsagents on America's number one podcast network, iHeart. Open your free Iheart app and search the newsagents to start listening.
- [59:50]
Public Rec Announcer
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- [61:12]
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