Beto O’Rourke Is Risking Arrest To Protect Texas’s Voters

Summary

Podcast Summary: "Beto O’Rourke Is Risking Arrest To Protect Texas’s Voters"

Podcast Information

• Title: This is Gavin Newsom
• Host: Gavin Newsom
• Guest: Beto O’Rourke
• Release Date: August 12, 2025

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1. Introduction and Context

In this pivotal episode of "This is Gavin Newsom," Governor Gavin Newsom engages in a candid conversation with Senator Beto O’Rourke about the escalating political tensions in Texas. The discussion centers around O’Rourke’s relentless efforts to safeguard voters’ rights amidst what he describes as an authoritarian crackdown by Texas Attorney General Ken Paxton.

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2. The Fight for Democracy

Temporary Restraining Order and Legal Challenges

Beto O’Rourke begins by detailing the legal threats he faces. Referring to the Texas Attorney General's aggressive stance, O’Rourke states:

“If Twitter can be believed, that's where I'm headed next. But for the time being, I get to hang with family, which is pretty nice.” ([03:15])

He emphasizes that these legal maneuvers are attempts to silence his advocacy for fair elections and voter rights. O’Rourke explains the Temporary Restraining Order (TRO) filed against him, which aims to prevent him from holding rallies and raising resources:

“The TRO that they got was so incredibly narrow in scope... But I've continued to rally, to fight, to raise and, and to speak my mind.” ([06:41])

Challenging Authoritarianism

O’Rourke criticizes the consolidation of power by wealthy and influential entities, arguing that their influence undermines democratic processes:

“When our knees don't bend, they don't like that so much... They're trying to stop us from fighting with all we've got.” ([05:55])

He warns of a future where authoritarian control might become entrenched, likening the current struggle to historical battles against oppressive regimes.

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3. Implications for National Politics

Comparisons to Historical Authoritarianism

Governor Newsom draws parallels between current events and historical authoritarian shifts, particularly referencing the rise of Adolf Hitler:

“You're reminding me, just a quote that I love of Justice Brandeis. In a democracy, in a democracy, the most important office is office of citizen... He's absolutely betting on that.” ([26:15])

O’Rourke echoes these sentiments, emphasizing the urgency of the moment:

“Like the people in Germany in 1933... They snapped their minds to how power is used.” ([30:56])

Stakes for Future Elections

The conversation highlights the critical nature of upcoming elections, particularly the 2026 midterms, which O’Rourke asserts will determine the trajectory of American democracy:

“This is the fight that is taking place right now. And they're trying to take us out of this fight by seeking to intimidate us in the courts.” ([05:55])

Newsom concurs, describing the situation as a “code red” and stressing the need for immediate action to prevent the erosion of democratic institutions.

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4. The Role of "Powered by People"

Voter Registration and Community Support

O’Rourke elaborates on his organization, "Powered by People," which focuses on voter registration and community support in Texas. He underscores the challenges Texans face in the absence of automatic voter registration:

“Imagine the poor 18 year old... They see us, and I think rightfully so, as a threat to this system that is inherently anti democratic.” ([16:53])

He details the organization’s efforts in assisting Texans to navigate restrictive voting laws:

“In Texas, which has been under constant attack since Shelby vs. Holder was decided in 2013... They're trying to stop us from doing this important voter registration, pro democracy work here in the state of Texas.” ([16:58])

Community Engagement Despite Legal Threats

Despite the legal threats, O’Rourke highlights the resilience and dedication of volunteers:

“Powered by People is the largest voter registration organization in the state... These are everyday Texans who go through the trouble of getting certified and trained as volunteer deputy registrars.” ([16:58])

He emphasizes that the organization is a cornerstone in the fight against voter suppression, providing essential services to underserved communities.

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5. Call to Action

Unity and Collective Effort

Throughout the conversation, both Newsom and O’Rourke stress the importance of collective action. O’Rourke passionately urges listeners to join the fight:

“If we hang together, if we come together right now, if we fight together, we're going to win this together.” ([43:13])

He invites supporters to action-oriented events, such as rallies at the Texas Capitol, to demonstrate solidarity and resistance against perceived authoritarian measures.

Importance of Active Citizenship

Governor Newsom reinforces the message of active participation, highlighting the necessity of moving beyond rhetoric:

“People need to show up. People need to exercise their voice. People need to share that in authentic ways.” ([48:02])

Both leaders advocate for an engaged and proactive citizenry as the foundation for preserving democratic values.

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6. Conclusion

In this episode, Governor Gavin Newsom and Senator Beto O’Rourke engage in a fervent discussion about the current state of American democracy, particularly focusing on the challenges in Texas. O’Rourke’s firsthand experiences with legal intimidation underscore the broader national struggle against authoritarianism and voter suppression. The episode serves as both a warning and a rallying cry, emphasizing the critical importance of unity, active participation, and unwavering commitment to democratic principles to ensure a fair and just electoral process for all Americans.

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Notable Quotes with Timestamps:

• Beto O’Rourke [05:55]:

  “Over the last seven, eight months, we've watched the wealthiest, the most powerful people and institutions in this country bend the knee... we're going to fight with all we've got.”

• Gavin Newsom [26:15]:

  “This is code red. You've described it as a pre Civil War crisis. I don't think it's a gross exaggeration. I don't think it's exaggeration at all.”

• Beto O’Rourke [43:13]:

  “If we hang together, if we come together right now, if we fight together, we're going to win this together.”

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This summary encapsulates the essence of the episode, providing listeners with a comprehensive understanding of the critical issues discussed between Gavin Newsom and Beto O’Rourke regarding the defense of democratic integrity in Texas and beyond.

Transcript

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[Gavin Newsom]

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[Gavin Newsom]

This is Gavin Newsom. And this is Beto o'. Rourke. Hey, how you doing, brother?

[Beto O'Rourke]

I'm doing okay. I'm back in El Paso. This is home.

[Gavin Newsom]

So you're not you should not be in El Paso. You should be preparing. Get a toothbrush. You're on your way to jail, my friend. I just read Paxton's latest missive. He says, lock them up. Lock them up.

[Beto O'Rourke]

That's right. If Twitter can be believed, that's where I'm headed next. But for the time being, I get to hang with family, which is pretty nice.

[Gavin Newsom]

But I mean, on a serious note, I mean. I mean, guys, the Attorney General of the state of Texas said in a tweet that o' Rourke needs to be locked up. Not just hunted down, but now locked up. I mean, you got. On a serious note, you got. Tell me you haven't had a private attorney or someone. You're. You're literally gaming this out. You got to game it out, right?

[Beto O'Rourke]

Yeah. I mean, here's the thing that. That everyone should know. One, they're trying to stop us from exercising our First Amendment constitutionally protected right to say what we want to say about the politics of this country, about the attempted theft of these five congressional seats, our encouragement to governors such as yourself to use their full power to maximize democratic congressional control of the districts within their states. I mean, this is the fight that is taking place right now. And they're trying to take us out of this fight by seeking to intimidate us in the courts. And now, as you just referred to, Ken Paxton is on Twitter saying, lock him up, Gavin. This is what I think is going on. Over the last seven, eight months, we've watched the wealthiest, the most powerful people and institutions in this country bend the knee. The Ivy League universities, Harvard may settle for 500 million this week. The big law firms, Paramount, CBS, you know, Zuckerberg, Bezos, all of them are bending the knee. And then they come to Texas in this effort to steal these five seats, assuming that we're going to do the same. And when our knees don't bend, they don't like that so much. And so they not only seek to vacate the seats of the 54 state House Dems who have broken quorum to stop this deal, they're threatening them with second degree felonies. They're sending the FBI and state troopers after him, but now they're suing us successively many times over the last few days in state court here, and now threatening to put me in jail. So this is where we are right now, and this is why at this moment, we need people to stand and fight the. You know, every single time someone bends the knee to these guys, they get more powerful, there's more momentum behind them and it's going to be just tougher for us to succeed. And if we don't, I think this is for all the marbles. This is the ball game in the summer of 2025, not just the election of 2026, but whether there's going to be the consolidation of authoritarian control in the hands of this president. So we cannot be found wanting right now. We've got to fight with all we've got.

[Gavin Newsom]

I love it and so much to unpack in everything you just said. But let me just go back a little bit, just create some situational awareness for folks. Quite literally, just a few hours ago, we're referencing that tweet where the attorney general of the state of Texas talked about locking you up. But you reference powered by the people or powered by people, which is your pack. There was a lawsuit by that same attorney general. There was a court order by a Abbott governor. Abbott appointed judge that did a temporary injunction. And he's what, asserting now that you have broken the tenets of the TRO as it relates to the pac? Maybe illuminate us more of what at least he's asserting and then give us the facts.

[Beto O'Rourke]

We had a big rally planned on Saturday in Fort Worth in Tarrant county in North Texas, just next to Dallas in the north part of our state. And so he went to state court in Fort Worth in front of this Abbott appointed judge, as you pointed out, 4:30 on Friday with almost and I think actually no notice to, to our side filing a temporary restraining order request to stop me from being able to hold the rally, from being able to raise resources for those who are in this fight and for even being able to speak. But the TRO that they got was so incredibly narrow in scope. There are some very technical, specific things that I can't say and I have not said them. But I've continued to rally, to fight, to raise and, and to speak my mind. And we did all that in Fort Worth on Saturday in front of thousands of fired up people who want to make sure that this theft of these five congressional seats does not proceed in the state of Texas and that we stop, you know, finding ourselves on the back foot or on the defense. But we take the fight to them. We go on on offense. We don't, we don't await the punch to be thrown by these would be fascists. We throw ours first and we throw it harder. That was the spirit in Fort Worth on Saturday and they didn't like that. And so at the crack of dawn today, they file this request for the judge to find me in criminal contempt, to lock me up, put me behind bars, and literally, physically prevent me from continuing to travel the state to hold rallies, to meet with people, to raise resources and to fight. They just don't want us to fight. All the more reason for us to fight. And very telling about how panicked and scared they are if they cannot complete this steal in Texas, if they can stop us from winning control of, or if they cannot stop us from winning control of the House of Representatives, there's going to be a check on their lawlessness. There's going to be accountability for all the crimes and corruption that we see organized out of the White House right now. And there's a very real prospect that we'll have free and fair elections in 2028. If we fail in this, and this is what they're counting on, then that consolidation of authoritarian power proceeds at an even increased pace. And we've just seen a blitzkrieg over, over the last eight months that is just the prelude or the prologue to what is going to happen to America over the next three and a half years if we're unsuccessful. More masked plainclothes federal agents without warrants or badges, sweeping fellow Americans up off the streets. More of Trump's political opponents targeted, as I'm being targeted right now for vengeance or retribution or even political violence. And we know that a complicit Republican controlled Congress will roll out the red carpet for a third Trump term. So those are the stakes that the election of 2026 is being decided right now in the summer of 25. And all of us have to fight with all that we've got to make sure that we win it and win it.

[Gavin Newsom]

Now. I want to go back. You use the words free and fair and I do think it's important to pause and everything you said, I agree, and again, I want to talk much more about that. But the notion that they are trying to stop you from expressing yourself, having a rally, asserting your fundamental constitution, I mean, I don't even want to go into the obvious point, but what the hell is their assertion? What do they say? How could a judge possibly do a tro, a temporary restraining order, temporary injunction, alleging that you've done what? What was the assertion? On the basis of what law and what constitutional principle? What were they claiming?

[Beto O'Rourke]

They're claiming that our organization powered by people, and that I personally am attempting to bribe the 54 state House Democrats who broke quorum and left the state.

[Gavin Newsom]

And you're bribing them by doing what? What, what's the assertion you've bribed them by you're handing. Are you doing cash envelopes? Are you putting money into their kids bank accounts, Their. No, their spouses. What are you doing exactly? What is assertion?

[Beto O'Rourke]

Not, not only are we not doing any of those things that you just mentioned, I mean, we literally have not written a single check to any of these state legislators. We' resources to make sure that all of us can stay in this fight, that we can stop this theft. But yes, they're asserting bribery, which as you're pointing out, is incredibly rich. Ken Paxton himself was not just accused of bribery. He was impeached by the Texas legislature, which as you know, is a Republican majority institution. Members of his own party found him or impeached him for the accusation of bribery. And then you've got the folks around him. You know, Greg Abbott, the governor of Texas, took $6 million from an out of state billionaire, Jeff Yass, to unseat Republican members of the state legislature who were opposing his voucher scheme, which in plain terms just means draining resources from local schools and cutting checks to private schools, which is just going to decimate public education in the state of Texas. And then we've got, you know, the president, the briber in chief, who just reduced Ghislaine Maxwell's sentence. You know, remind her that she is a convicted sex trafficker of Children, children, kids. She's now at Camp Fed outside of Bryan, Texas, because presumably she's playing ball to hide Trump's complicity to the degree he was with Jeffrey Epstein. You know, the bribe to Eric Adams. The quid pro quo will drop the charges against you for bribery, by the way, if you will allow our ICE agents to run wild on, on the streets of Your City. The 400 million from the Qataris, the Trump meme coin, where any one, foreign or domestic, can give any amount of money to purchase influence and access to the president and his administration. So, you know, Joseph Goebbels infamously said, you know, accuse your opponent of the thing that you yourself are guilty of. And they are reading that playbook and they are running those plays right now. So we have to make sure that we fight and not just fight back, but take the fight to them. And I've just got to say, on behalf of the folks that I'm working with and listening to across the state of Texas, we are so damned proud of you and grateful to you for taking this fight to them. Not, not waiting, not reacting, not watch and see, but taking the fight to them. We need more of that across the country right now.

[Gavin Newsom]

Look, I appreciate that. And look, I appreciate, I appreciate how reasonable you are under these extraordinary circumstances. Nothing about this is normal. Nothing about this can be normalized. Nothing about I, when people say it's not surprising when people use that phrase, it, I recoil because it makes me think then it's, they're somehow accepting of it. Well, it's not surprising. It's not surprising. It sure as hell is surprising. It's outrageous. I mean the idea that you have an attorney general who himself was accused of bribery, again impeached by Republicans, not just Democrats saying quote unquote, he's going to hunt people down. The Democrats that left the state and now is locking going to lock you up. That's serious. I mean, it's just, it is serious. And so I, I appreciate, I appreciate how calm you are, but should scare the hell out of everyone listening. So I want to go back just briefly. You in 2021 did similar work on behalf of Democrats that last time left the state. Meaning this quorum break occurred in 2021 in Texas under different circumstances on a different issue. And my recollection is that you beto were out front doing similar advocacy or at least raising awareness around this, exercising your voice and doing rallies and calling people's attention to this. But you didn't, to my knowledge, experience anything like you're experiencing today. Or is that inaccurate?

[Beto O'Rourke]

No, you're exactly right. And just, just to give people some context, Powered by People is the largest voter registration organization in the state. Hundreds of thousands of Texans are on the rolls because of our volunteers who literally go out there and meet them wherever they are. In the 254 counties of Texas, unlike California, in our state there's no online voter registration or automatic voter registration, same day voter registration. So imagine the poor 18 year old who's got to figure out how to print the form out, fill it out correctly, find an envelope and a stamp, mail that sucker in to the county registrar's office and then follow up on it to get their voter registration card. They're obviously targeting these young people because they fear them. They don't want them to vote, they don't want their voice heard, they don't want their ballot cast or counted because that threatens their purchase on power. And so here's powered by people getting out there registering these young people, staying in touch with these young people to ensure that they actually get a chance to participate in our politics. It's that kind of work. It's the support of these Texas House Dems and the Larger fight for democracy. Look, just. Just the right to vote and to have free and fair elections and to make sure that you have one person, one vote. In the state of Texas, which has been under constant attack since Shelby vs. Holder was decided in 2013, literally, Gavin, within minutes of that decision, the state of Texas imposed the toughest voter ID law in the country. You know, you can use your license to carry a firearm at the polling place, but you dare not use your ID at the University of Texas at El Paso to do the same. So they're going after these young people. They're going after communities of color. They're going after Texans who live in lower income neighborhoods. They just fear their power. And there's a reason that millions of Texans don't vote. It's not that they're lazy. It's not that they don't love this democracy. It's not that they don't care about the issues. It's that they've literally been drawn out. And so they see us, and I think rightfully so, as a threat to this system that is inherently anti democratic. And they're not only trying to silence us from speaking out about this theft right now, they're trying to stop us from doing this important voter registration, pro democracy work here in the state of Texas.

[Gavin Newsom]

And Beto, you started what, 2019 powered by people?

[Beto O'Rourke]

Absolutely, yeah. And in the midst of the, you know, primarily organized around voter registration, but in the midst of the pandemic, you know, older Texans were leaving their volunteer shifts at the food banks because they were more susceptible to the virus. Understandable. Our volunteers filled tens of thousands of man hours at food banks all across the state of Texas. When the geniuses in charge in the next year 2021 could not keep the power flowing in the energy capital of the world. And the heat stopped running and the lights went off and the water pipes froze, our volunteers made more than a million phone calls to seniors across the state of Texas. We could have cared less if they were Republicans or Democrats or independents, but we connected them to warming centers, to resources, to food, to drinking water. We raised nearly $1 million to distribute for local infrastructure and communities where their, their water systems had broken, where they needed help immediately and could not wait on Ted Cruz to come back from Cancun, or Greg Abbott to actually focus on the needs that we had at the time. So this group does a lot of great work. And Gavin, they're all volunteers. Okay, so these, these are everyday Texans who go through the trouble of getting certified and trained as volunteer deputy registrars deployed out to the places where people need to get registered to vote and then do all this other great work for the people of Texas. And that is what is being attacked right now. That's the threat that Ken Paxton, Greg Abbott and Donald Trump see in us.

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[Gavin Newsom]

For ad free episodes a few years later, after you started the organization, obviously with a quorum break in 2021 around electoral issues, there was no 500. My understanding there wasn't 500 fines at the time for Breaking Corp. Now that's established. So these guys are all, I mean, all your, you know, these are your friends, a lot of them. These 50. There's 54 that are out of the state. They're subject to these fines that have accrued, what, over the last how many days?

[Beto O'Rourke]

Yeah, I mean, I think we're, we're approaching two weeks here. It's 500 bucks a day per person.

[Gavin Newsom]

And these guys make what, 600? This is a full time job that pays an extraordinary amount of money. The legislature in Texas or not, is it not a full time job? And it doesn't pay an exorbitant amount of money.

[Beto O'Rourke]

They make $7,200 a year for being state legislators in a state of 31 million people. You know, just behind California is one of the largest economies on the planet today. Extraordinary challenges, right? You know, Texas leads the nation in school shootings more than three years after Uvalde was 19. Kids, those two teachers who were slaughtered in that classroom. Nothing has changed. And these Democratic state legislators are doing their best within a very challenging situation to change that. The minimum wage, expanding Medicaid, ensuring women can make their own decisions about their own body and their own future and their own health care. And for trying to do that, they are, as you pointed out, being hunted down, in the words of the governor and the Attorney General, John Cornyn, crowing that he's met with Cash Patel and they're going to send the long arm of the FBI after them as well. So. So this is what they're up against. And I just want everyone to just understand those 54 are one of the very last lines of defense. Not just between us and the theft of these five congressional districts in Texas, but between us and a different form of government altogether. My theory of the case, Gavin, and I want to hear yours in response, is that if we fail to stop this and if we fail to win Power in 2026, this, this consolidation of authoritarian power in the hands of the President is going to become almost unstoppable. I'll never say never, and I'll never stop fighting. I know you won't either. And there are tens, I hope, hundreds of millions of Americans who are with us on this. But they have the Supreme Court. If they have the House and the Senate again, the White House, you know, the tech billionaires, all of these institutions that are bending the knee right now, this fight becomes so much harder. So. So that's why I'm so keyed up right now. That's why we're fighting so hard against Paxton and these Threats of arrest and imprisonment and all this bullshit that they're trying to lay on us right now. Because if we don't succeed, if we're found wanting right now, it is nearly impossible in the next turn after 2026. But I'd love to hear how you see things from, from your perspective in California and you've met with these Texas legislators, you're meeting with people across the country. We've been working, watching what you're doing. How do you see the terms of this fight right now?

[Gavin Newsom]

Well, let me just, in very pointed and sober terms, distill the essence of, of why I couldn't agree with you more. I received from one of Trump's team, one of his biggest supporters, a 2028 Trump hat. They're not screwing around. When you talk about a red carpet, a third term, you're not exaggerating. Everybody listening, pay attention to this. They're not making this thing up. Once a mind is stretched, it never goes back to its original form. Trump throws things out, sees what the reaction is. And that Overton window opens further and further, wider and wider. This is serious stuff. Every single thing you have said, we need to reinforce. And I want to reflect more on what you've said and unpack it for people listening, but I do not. This is code red. You've described it as a pre Civil War crisis. I don't think it's a gross exaggeration. I don't think it's exaggeration at all. I mean, that fact that they're talking about hunting people down using that language, the fact that a US Senators, you know, running for reelection against the same Paxton that was impeached by his own Republican colleagues and desperate for attention to get in on this, calls the FBI director, and he somehow concurs that the FBI should be unleashed on people that are advancing their own constitutional rights of free speech. A quorum that's as old as, you know, mom and apple pie in America's system. The minority exercising their rights against the tyranny of the majority. So this is real. This is in every way a petri dish for what's happening. But look, Meadow, I think the challenges for all of us is with all the damn distractions 24 7, how the hell do we just. How do we avoid being distracted by these distractions? To me, this is the whole damn game. This is about rigging the system. This is the architecture that makes everything else possible. You opened up about what it's really all about as relates to health care and tax cuts and power not just parties, but how the hell do we keep people focused on the essential what's happening in your state? And I'll get to what's happening in my state in a moment. But my state of mind. Your state of mind, that I think recognizes this moment that we're in and how perilous it is.

[Beto O'Rourke]

Yeah. I think we show up for people and we get out there and we fight in every and any way we can. We don't know what's going to work, but we know what won't work. If we sit back, if we watch this, if we hope, if we pray, if we expect someone to come in and ride to our rescue, we're cooked. I mean, this thing is absolutely over. You're a dad, I'm a dad. My conscience is my kids. My greatest fear is having to answer to them. They're like, hey, dad, when all this shit was going down, what the fuck did you do? What were you guys thinking? This guy promised you he was going to be a dictator on day one. He told you this is going to be the last election you would ever have to vote in. And then when he was in office, he defied the federal courts. He dismantled congressionally chartered programs, he covered up for child sex traffickers. He colluded with corrupt public officials. He dispense with every constitutional safeguard, including due process. What did you guys do? And I had better say, you know, and you had better say. And everyone watching had better say, not only did we do our best, but we overcame this challenge just as America has overcome every serious threat before. It wasn't easy. It wasn't tough. Some folks got locked up in the process. Some people got hurt. And it was the most trying time of our life. But we came through because we knew that there would be a reckoning and an accounting from the generations that follow. I mean, I can only imagine the history books written 100 years from now looking at the people of 2025. It's the way, you know, you and I, when we were in school, were looking at the people in Germany in 1933. That guy's named chancellor in January of that year. In 53 days, he has destroyed German democracy. The parliament or the Congress, their legislature, passed these enabling laws just like the Republicans are doing in Congress today. That said anything you want, you go out and do it. And he goes from being this buffoonish, clownish thug who can barely hold power to the undisputed master and dictator of the German people. And I know this shit doesn't repeat, but it sure as hell rhymes. And we've got to be listening to that right now and acting with the urgency that the moment demands from us. And again, I got to tell you, I see you doing that right now. I wish there were more who were doing that. I love what JB Pritzker is doing in Illinois. You know, Kathy Hochul has made some, some noise in New York that they're going to use that power they have there to redistrict.

[Gavin Newsom]

But Beto, they need to use it. I mean, right now we're just forget the talking. It's not about press. I, I love those. It's time to move. You got to move. I mean, you get enough. It's not. I mean, we're all saying the right thing now. We got to do the right thing, which means we got to fight fire with fire. And back to your earlier question, that's exactly what we're doing. We're going to later this week. We're going to announce the campaign next week. The legislature is going to move this forward with two thirds. We're going to get it in a special election on November 4th. And we're going to fight fire with fire. We're going to neutralize whatever Abbott does next week or whenever they move forward the next special session. We'll talk about that in a second. The likelihood that they ultimately will be successful in Texas and California will move forward, but will also hopefully inspire some other states. There are many other democratically led states that can move forward and we just cannot sit back passively. And again, it's not just Texas. And I forgive me, I don't mean again, let's introduce that you've got the vice president, United States that was just sent out not to console the families of the 130, 140 plus and maybe many, many more that lost their lives in the flood. J.D. vance was sent out instead to Indiana to begin the process of redistricting there. You've seen what is happening in Florida, what's already on autopilot in Ohio. They're hardly done here. They're going to move. They're going to run the table on us. They're rigging this election in plain sight. So this is back to just code red. We got to move from the rhetoric. We have got to take action and we got to have your back. We got to have our kids back. And I appreciate you reminding us. You're 100, right? No greater shame than those kids looking us say, where the hell were you, dad? No, no, no. Don't tell me you did. No where the hell were you? And I think that for everybody, that's the, that's the mark of, you know, that's the conscience that we have to have. And we have to have the character now to stand tall and have the conviction. So, man, I appreciate what I love about what you're doing is you're fighting and you're on your damn toes, not on your heel. And Beto, this has been my issue with my party for the last many years. They're shape shifting everything. We're constantly responding to crt, dei, esg. I mean, anything with three damn letters. Irs, FBI. Then when they want to weaponize it, epa, you know, it's you. I love it. You're saying, you know we're going to punch first. And so forgive me, I, I'm meandering here, but I, I, the spirit that you're bringing to this fight is the spirit we need to bring to every damn fight. Because that Atlantic article in January that someone sent me about the 53 days, it scared the hell out of me. But I was honestly timid to send it around because anytime you associate anything with what happened In Germany, the 30s and Hitler, everyone then panics. But that is a must read article for anyone that needs a little brush up in their history lesson. Everything you just said is real. It happened from within and it happened in 53 damn days. We're just six months in, Beto. This guy's just getting started.

[Beto O'Rourke]

Yeah, that's right. And just for those who haven't read the article or don't know this history, over the course of those 53 days in 1933, it wasn't as though the German public and the German politicians were powerless. The strength of that article is that there were so many opportunities to stop this guy that people passed on. They thought the moment to fight was down the road or that the fight wasn't important or that this was just going to be a passing phase. You kind of talked earlier about normalizing this, and once the mind stretches, it's hard to snap back to our previous expectations of how power is used. But you said something else that I really want to pick up on about our own party, which I fear for too long has been overly concerned with being right instead of being in power. And what we've watched is a rise of, of a competing party that is only concerned about power. It could care less about being right or being legal or moral or ethical. It is power. And you pointed out in 2021 I was doing the exact same things then during a quorum break where Democrats left the state of Texas, as I am doing now, there was no threat to arrest me. There were no charges filed in the Tarrant County Court. There was no effort to vacate their seats or to hunt them down. The reason is because it's not about the principal. It is about the power. And this is a word of encouragement to everybody. I know we've been, you know, there's been some. Some. Some darkness in this conversation, which, which is just an accurate reflection of the conditions. But I want to encourage folks with this. They are, you know, Trump, Paxton, Abbott, the Republicans in full panic mode right now. These are signs of. Of desperation. The reason they're doing all this is, is they. They fully understand, should they not be able to succeed in this deal, should they not be able to hold on to power in the House, there will be a reckoning for them, There will be accountability, there will be a check on their lawlessness, and there will be free and fair elections or as close as we can get to it in America in the 21st century, in 2028. And so, you know what's been chilling for me, Gavin, is the near or full impunity with which they've been acting, accepting these bribes the President has, making these corrupt deals. It's as though he knows, or thinks he knows, that there will never be a moment where he's accountable or has to answer for his crimes or his corruption. He's absolutely betting on that. And so that explains him saying, look, folks, I need five seats in Texas. Go get them for me. No pretense that the current seats are unconstitutional or unrepresentative. He's just being really clear, which is a gift to all of us, that this is about power. And to your point, our side better get fucking serious about power, about winning it and using it. Mandela Barnes, whom I just did a town hall with in Milwaukee last week, said, when we win power, we have to drive the car like we stole it. We have to do everything for everyone that we've been promising these massive changes in American society, whether it is the minimum wage, whether it's rewriting our immigration laws, whether it is dealing with this democracy so that you can't spend $300 million on your preferred presidential candidate, or that corporations aren't people and money is not speech. So much work to do. But we got to be about winning that power. And then when we have it, absolutely wielding it ruthlessly, aggressively, ambitiously to serve and deliver for the American people, we do that. That is the best ticket to growing that power, staying in power and getting this country back on the right track. Track.

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[Beto O'Rourke]

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[Gavin Newsom]

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[Beto O'Rourke]

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[Gavin Newsom]

You think you know Snap Judgment. Yes. It's on NPR. It's a podcast. It's storytelling. But snap has gone deeper, stranger, wilder. We've taken you places that the New York Times, the Rolling Stones, the Ambies, the Webbies, the Gracies, all stood up for.

[Beto O'Rourke]

Welcome to the Podcast hall of fame.

[Gavin Newsom]

Glenn Washington, award winning stories, original beats, soundscapes that drop you into the heart of the story. Find Snap Touch from KQED every Thursday, wherever you get your podcast. Beta. Is this the Beta O' Rourke of 2018 running for Senate with no consultants? I mean, are you, do you feel like the times have changed you in a dramatic way, or do you feel you always had a little bit of this in your belly, but now you're coming full throated in terms of recognition, the lines that are drawn. I mean, is this, do you feel like that you've become a different person with this next, with the last six months with Trump 2.0, or was January 6 years ago? Did you sort of mark that moment as a new moment?

[Beto O'Rourke]

I think this moment is calling me like it's calling you, like it's calling so many millions of our fellow Americans to do everything I can with what I have, wherever I am. And one of the things I can do that I'm pretty good at is bringing people together. I mentioned Milwaukee. We were in Indianapolis, Kansas City, Omaha. 1500 people came out in Oklahoma City, 15 months from a fucking election. You know, not because they want to support a candidate, not one, or because they're Democrats. We didn't check their party affiliation at the door because, like you and me, they really care about what's happening to this country right now and they want to fight back. And so in Oklahoma City, we connected them with the Oklahoma City County Democratic Party, with organizations that are registering people to vote with candidates who are vying to win that congressional seat held by a Republican right now, but very winnable for a Democrat, especially if we organize now in 2025. So, you know, I do think there's a freedom of, you know, not thinking about the title or an office or being a candidate or a campaign and just doing the work. And, and the work is, is the most important thing right now. If it leads to something else, else, if it becomes obvious that I can have more of an impact as, as a candidate. Absolutely unafraid of doing that. But, but for now, focusing on voter registration, being in this fight in Texas, bringing others across the country into this fight, because Texas is the, the front line, the absolute epicenter of this Fight for America. That's, that's the highest and best use of what I can give and I'm just going to keep doing it.

[Gavin Newsom]

I love it. You're reminding me, just a quote that I love of Justice Brandeis. In a democracy, in a democracy, the most important office is office of citizen. In this notion of active, not inert citizenship, the fact that people show up in Oklahoma City, you've been doing rallies, I think eight plus different states. You're out there in red states. You're primarily in rural parts of even your own state. In fact, people are coming out in these record numbers means they haven't given into the cynicism, they haven't given into the fear. They're not giving up and they're not rolling over. And I think that that, that fills me with a tremendous amount of optimism. I know it does you as well and puts a lot of, you know, just, it gives us just some confidence that we're all not alone and we're all in this together. That said, this Friday, better my understanding is this Friday, just in a couple days, this first special session will end. There'll be a question for the 54 Democrats. Do they come back into the state? Do they subject themselves to arrest, which in and of itself is chilling. If they are indeed arrested and the likelihood, and this is a question, not a statement, the likelihood, it seems to me, I'm curious what your expectation is, is that the governor will immediately call another special session and at peril that they leave the state again. It likely will pass. Meaning we will likely in the next month or so or even sooner. See these five seats this mid decade redrawing of the map, Is that an accurate assessment? What do I know? What don't I know in respect to this?

[Beto O'Rourke]

Yeah, I mean, I think you're, you're on top of this. I, I, just as we were going into this interview, someone told me that Abbott is going to dissolve this current special session so he can begin the next one right away. Maybe as soon as, as Friday or Saturday or Monday. For those who, who want to fight this, I encourage you to join us at the Texas capital in Austin this coming Saturday. Governor, we'd love to have you join us as well. I mean, anyone who wants to be in this fight, because this fight, as you have articulated so perfectly, is not about Texas, it's not about Texans. It's about all 330 million of us, regardless of where we live. This is the fight for the future of our country. And it's being decided right now as it happens in the state of Texas, but also in California, in Illinois, everywhere that people of good conscience are willing to stand and be counted at this moment of truth. So join us at the Texas Capitol, it's this Saturday on the steps. You know, the more who show up, the clearer the picture to Abbott and Paxton and Trump that we will not bend the knee, that we're going to stand and fight. They will not be able to run roughshod over the people of Texas and steal our democracy. They steal it here, it is gone for the country. So. So all in all together is Franklin warned us we're either going to hang together or hang alone. And I want to make sure that all of us hang together right now. Thank you for hanging with those Texas Democrats, for having them in California, for amplifying their voices, for encouraging people who see Tim Cook genuflect before Donald Trump like one of the most powerful executives on the fucking planet and give him a gold plated iPhone. Others in these positions that are prominent and powerful and wealthy and have privilege, who actually have the resources to fight this fucker and instead are giving in, it can tempt you to despair. But when folks see you out there fighting these 54 Democrats in Texas, fighting others, fighting the folks who show up this Saturday at the Texas Capitol, that is encouraging. It gives us hope. It's like, you know what? We can do this shit. We are the people who overcame the British Empire, the most powerful force on the planet. We defeated the armies of the Confederacy, the divisions of the Third Reich, the armed elected thugs of Jim Crow South. We've overcome every single one of those challenges over the last 249 years. Now it's our turn. We are so lucky to be alive at this moment. So few American generations have this chance to save our country at its moment of truth. You and I are lucky enough to be here right now with everyone else who is alive. And so what we do with this inheritance, everyone who's fought every one of those battles before, it has come through to us. It's, it's going to define us in the eyes of history. It's going to determine what is possible for this country. And it is ours to lose right now. So everyone into this fight with all that you've got, wherever you are, if we hang together, if we come together right now, if we fight together, we're going to win this together.

[Gavin Newsom]

I mean, I'm going to end right there, brother, that I love your passion, most importantly, love your action. And I want to remind everybody you have agency we're not bystanders in this world and it is about sharing your passion with action. And I think that's the most important thing we need to communicate with folks. It's not good enough to identify a problem. It's not good enough to as you began, I thought so eloquently, sort of sit back and hope the guy or gal and the white horse is going to come save the day. It's the person sitting there in the morning in the mirror and that's the person we need right now. People need to show up. People need to exercise their voice. People need to share that in authentic ways. Beto Rourke, thanks for all you're doing. Powered by People. Keep up the great work my friend.

[Beto O'Rourke]

Thank you so much man. Adios.

[Gavin Newsom]

Thank you brother.

[Beto O'Rourke]

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[Beto O'Rourke]

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[Cindy Crawford]

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[Gavin Newsom]

I'm Glenn Washington, the host of Snap Judgment from KQED. Every week we don't just tell stories, we drop you inside them.

[Beto O'Rourke]

Real people, real voices, real moments that split a life in two.

[Gavin Newsom]

What do you believe? What do you risk?

[Beto O'Rourke]

What do you want?

[Gavin Newsom]

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