Extended Conversation: How To Live Forever With Dr. Sanjay Gupta

Summary

Podcast Title: This is Gavin Newsom
Host: iHeartPodcasts
Episode: Extended Conversation: How To Live Forever With Dr. Sanjay Gupta
Release Date: July 9, 2025

---

Introduction

In this compelling episode of "This is Gavin Newsom," Governor Gavin Newsom engages in an in-depth conversation with renowned neurosurgeon and medical reporter, Dr. Sanjay Gupta. The dialogue delves into the intricacies of longevity, public health, misinformation, and the evolving role of artificial intelligence in medicine. This summary captures the essence of their discussion, highlighting key insights, notable quotes, and the overarching themes explored during the episode.

---

1. The Foundations of Longevity and Health

Gavin Newsom opens the conversation by acknowledging Dr. Gupta's extensive work on longevity and public health. He emphasizes the importance of basic health practices and inquires about recent breakthroughs that could enhance life expectancy and health span.

"[...] you've been writing particularly about some breakthroughs and some examples of real successes as it relates to longevity and wellness that give a sense of well-being,"
— Gavin Newsom [03:07]

Dr. Sanjay Gupta responds by distinguishing between lifespan and health span, stressing that the quality of years lived is as crucial as the number itself. He highlights that lifestyle choices—such as diet, exercise, and sleep—play a more significant role in determining health outcomes than genetics alone.

"With what we know now, not any new medical breakthrough or some big development, we could greatly expand life expectancy and health span."
— Dr. Sanjay Gupta [04:15]

---

2. Diet's Impact on Health and Disease Prevention

The discussion transitions to the impact of diet on inflammation and neurodegenerative diseases like Alzheimer's. Gavin probes into the role of sugar, dairy, and meat in cognitive health.

"How important is [limiting sugar, dairy, and meat]? Are these foundational in terms of addressing issues around Alzheimer's and dementia?"
— Gavin Newsom [06:12]

Dr. Gupta elaborates on the detrimental effects of excessive sugar consumption, categorizing it as "toxic" due to its overwhelming impact on the liver and its role in increasing LDL particles.

"Sugar I'd almost put into its own category. Like I'm alluding to sugars, toxic."
— Dr. Sanjay Gupta [06:57]

He further discusses the benefits of a vegan diet in reducing inflammation, citing Dean Ornish's work in potentially stalling or reversing Alzheimer's progression through dietary changes.

"Going on a vegan diet was greatly associated with decreasing inflammation in the body and in the brain and could, if it could stall and potentially reverse Alzheimer's disease, that was a big deal."
— Dr. Sanjay Gupta [07:45]

---

3. Personal Health Practices and Lifestyle Choices

Gavin shares his personal health routines, balancing intense exercise with moderate activities like walking, and adhering to a diet low in sugar and alcohol. He humorously touches upon his involvement in the wine business despite acknowledging alcohol's negative impacts.

"I have more moderate activity as well. Eat healthily. Don't eat sugar at all. Don't drink alcohol."
— Dr. Sanjay Gupta [09:10]

The conversation underscores the importance of maintaining a balanced lifestyle to promote longevity and overall well-being.

---

4. The Fluoride Debate and Public Health Policy

A significant portion of the discussion centers on the controversial topic of fluoride in public water supplies. Gavin seeks Dr. Gupta's expert opinion on the ongoing debates and the historical context of fluoride's role in public health.

"How worried should I be about this fluoride movement now we're seeing? [...] How important is it?"
— Gavin Newsom [17:58]

Dr. Gupta provides a nuanced perspective, acknowledging that while high doses of fluoride can lead to skeletal and dental fluorosis, the current levels used in the United States are generally safe and contribute to preventing cavities. He contrasts this with international practices, noting that countries like Iceland and England employ alternative fluoride delivery methods, such as rinses and milk fluoridation, respectively.

"Most of the data that exists on the benefits of fluoride exists before 1975. [...] Fluoride today, lower risk, lower reward than it used to be."
— Dr. Sanjay Gupta [21:30]

He emphasizes the need for improved dental care and coverage to reduce the reliance on fluoride supplementation.

---

5. Misinformation, Trust, and Public Health in the Post-Pandemic Era

The conversation shifts to the pervasive issue of misinformation and its impact on public trust, especially in the wake of the COVID-19 pandemic. Gavin raises concerns about the erosion of trust in experts and the increasing polarization of public opinion.

"Misinformation [...] how do we get back to the kind of platform that we need in order to row in the same direction as a country?"
— Gavin Newsom [22:24]

Dr. Gupta reflects on historical and contemporary challenges in public health communication, drawing parallels between the 1918 flu pandemic and the COVID-19 crisis. He discusses the role of social media in amplifying misinformation and the critical need for trust-building measures.

"Nobody believes anything. [...] Unless you can touch somebody, unless you know somebody personally, you don't really trust them anymore."
— Dr. Sanjay Gupta [23:48]

He advocates for a "trust but verify" approach and highlights the importance of accurate, nuanced information dissemination to combat misinformation.

---

6. The Role of Artificial Intelligence in Healthcare

In the latter part of the episode, Gavin explores the burgeoning role of artificial intelligence (AI) in medicine, questioning its potential to reduce costs and enhance research and clinical practices.

"Is AI overhyped in terms of medical expenses? [...] Is it under hyped as it relates to imaging benefits and just sort of super capacity to address chronic disease and solve for some of life's great evils and cancers?"
— Gavin Newsom [34:04]

Dr. Gupta expresses optimism about AI's transformative potential in healthcare. He cites examples such as AI-driven diagnostic tools that can analyze vast datasets to inform clinical decisions more efficiently than traditional methods.

"I think it's going to be magnificent ultimately what AI can do for healthcare. It's going to need guardrails, but I think even those are very trainable."
— Dr. Sanjay Gupta [34:51]

He also touches upon the challenges of ensuring equitable access to AI technologies and the importance of addressing disparities to prevent exacerbating existing healthcare inequalities.

---

7. Final Thoughts and Closing Remarks

As the conversation winds down, Gavin reiterates his appreciation for Dr. Gupta's nuanced insights, particularly regarding fluoride and broader public health issues. They briefly touch upon personal anecdotes related to vaccination discussions and the human aspect of healthcare communication.

"This was fabulous. Thanks for all you're doing. Keep doing what you're doing. You're a bright light in this darkness and I appreciate you taking the time."
— Gavin Newsom [42:35]

---

Conclusion

This episode of "This is Gavin Newsom" offers a rich and multifaceted exploration of topics critical to public health and personal well-being. Through an engaging dialogue with Dr. Sanjay Gupta, listeners gain valuable perspectives on longevity, the complexities of public health policies, the dangers of misinformation, and the promising future of AI in medicine. The conversation underscores the necessity of nuanced understanding and collaborative efforts to navigate the challenges of modern healthcare.

---

Notable Quotes:

• Gavin Newsom [03:07]: "You've been writing particularly about some breakthroughs and some examples of real successes as it relates to longevity and wellness that give a sense of well-being."

• Dr. Sanjay Gupta [06:57]: "Sugar I'd almost put into its own category. Like I'm alluding to sugars, toxic."

• Dr. Sanjay Gupta [21:30]: "Fluoride today, lower risk, lower reward than it used to be."

• Dr. Sanjay Gupta [23:48]: "Unless you can touch somebody, unless you know somebody personally, you don't really trust them anymore."

• Dr. Sanjay Gupta [34:51]: "I think it's going to be magnificent ultimately what AI can do for healthcare. It's going to need guardrails, but I think even those are very trainable."

---

This summary provides a comprehensive overview of the episode, capturing the depth and breadth of the conversation while highlighting significant insights and perspectives shared by both speakers.

Transcript

[Radhi Devlukia]

This is an iHeart podcast.

[Sonesta Travel Pass]

Travel smarter, not Harder at America's Best Value Inn by Sonesta with convenient locations from coast to coast and value packed comfort at every turn and when you're a Sonesta TravelPass member, staying at America's Best Value Inn means earning points toward free nights, upgrades and more. Go to sonesta.com to book your stay and unlock their best rates with Sinesta Travel Pass Here today, Rome tomorrow. Join [e-mail] terms and conditions apply.

[Gavin Newsom]

You don't need to be ripped, you.

[Epic Fits]

Just need the right shirt. Epic Fits gives you a clean, confident silhouette. Snug on the arms, soft on the.

[Dr. Sanjay Gupta]

Skin, generous where it counts, and with.

[Epic Fits]

Deals like $15 per tee, they won't break the bank.

[ShipStation]

Visit epicfits.com today.

[Epic Fits]

EPIC fits t shirts that get it.

[Lowe's]

Lowe's knows July 4th savings are worth celebrating right now. Get up to 40% off select major appliances and get an additional 10% off two or more select major appliances plus get three Scott's Naturescapes 1.5 cubic foot mulch bags for just $10. These deals are coming in hot. Lowes we help you save. Valid through 7 9. Selection varies by location while supplies last. See lowe's.com for more details. Excludes Alaska and Hawaii.

[Huntsman Mental Health Institute]

In sitcoms, when someone has a problem, they just blurt it out and move on.

[Dr. Sanjay Gupta]

Well, I lost my job and my parakeet is missing. How was your day?

[Huntsman Mental Health Institute]

But the real world is different. Managing life's challenges can be overwhelming. So what do we do? We get support. The Huntsman Mental Health Institute and the Ad Council have mental health resources available for you at loveyourminetoday.org that's loveyourmindtoday.org See how much further you can go when you take care of your mental health.

[Radhi Devlukia]

Hey, I'm Radhi Devlukia and I'm the host of a really good Cry podcast and I have the opportunity to talk to Vivian too. Whether you're trying to get out of debt, build wealth, negotiate like a boss, or just finally understand how to do money right, Vivian is the person to ask.

[Sonesta Travel Pass]

Not understanding your own money and not understanding finances, There is risk for financial abuse. Yeah, and that is why every single woman needs to be good with money.

[Radhi Devlukia]

Listen to a really good cry on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podc.

[Gavin Newsom]

This is Gavin Newsom and we continue with Dr. Gupta. I want to talk in Sanjay because you've been. I mean, you've been one of the Great thought leaders and written so much about longevity and you talk about nutrition and health and some of the remarkable breakthroughs that are just, they seem just shockingly common sense. I mean just sort of foundational, just leading with common sense, eating well, sleeping well, hydrating, you know, socialization, etc. But you, you've been writing particularly about some breakthroughs and some examples of, of real successes as it relates to longevity and wellness that give I think distill a sense of well being at least People like me that with an aging grain population that we should be more optimistic than I think some of us have painted the future.

[Dr. Sanjay Gupta]

With, with what we know now, not, not any new medical breakthrough or some big development. I think we could greatly, greatly expand life expectancy and health span. That's a term I'm sure you've heard. But health span versus lifespan, the number of really functional years you have left. I think the data's become very compelling on this. I think anecdotally we've known this for a while by looking at other countries around the world and saying they spend a lot less, they do pretty simple things. They walk to, you know, their meet friends as opposed to driving. They eat right, they eat fresh foods, healthier foods, they sleep well. Some of the healthiest communities in the world have either non existent health care systems or very, very small health care systems. So. And that's, that's heart disease, that's dementia, that's diabetes, all at a fraction of the rates that we have in the United States. They don't have anything that we don't have. Yeah, it's happening to us. Is, is not because of what we're not doing. It's because of how we have what we are doing to our bodies. But I'll tell you something interesting, Governor. If you talk about longevity overall or aging sort of as a construct, what scientists will say, including Eric Topol, who you may know, in your state, aging is really made up of several different things. It's not just revolutions of planets. It's how well your immune system is working, how much inflammation you have, how much something that you have known as senescence, how many cells that are in a senescent stage. There's seven different things like this that you can sort of think about that actually make up aging that will determine your health span. Far more important than your genetics. We, we can control many of those things. We can improve our immune function, we can decrease our inflammation, we can decrease senescence. And there's all these different ways to do it now that have great Data behind that. There are certain medications and I'm not, you know, hockey any medications here, but like something like metformin even, which is something that's gotten a lot of attention. Nils Berzelai, who's a longevity researcher out of Sinai, will say Metformin is probably the closest thing we have to targeting all these different cardinal issues of aging, which I find really, really interesting. I wouldn't call it a breakthrough. I would call it a recognition of what aging really is, what is really happening to the human body, especially as we get older, why our function decreases and what can be done about it. You're quite right. It comes down to the big three. How we nourish ourselves, how we move and how we rest. But you know, there's, there's more nuance to it now based on a lot of the data people like Eric and Nils are collecting.

[Gavin Newsom]

And at the core, I mean you've, you know, you've, you've written about, I mean, when it comes to inflammation, obviously sugars, issues around dairy, meats, I mean, what's, I mean you are, you're solidified in that sort of core sort of understanding that limiting obviously sugar seems to make a lot of sense. I don't know if everybody is familiar with dairy as a component concern and, and then we can have the great meat debate as well. But are these sort of, these foundational in terms of addressing particularly issues around Alzheimer's and in dementia? I mean, I know Dean Ornish is out here in Sausalito, California, has been pushing a lot in that space. What's, what's your sense on the basis of all your research and work?

[Dr. Sanjay Gupta]

Well, sugar I put into its own category. Like I'm alluding to sugars, toxic. I mean, I did a piece for 60 Minutes years ago called the Toxic Truth and it was all about sugar. And it is, it is remarkable to me what sugar does to the body. We, our bodies just don't know how to process the amount of sugar that we eat nowadays. It basically hits our liver like a tsunami. And I think what's surprising to people is that because the body can't handle all that sugar, it churns out these byproducts which are typically what are called LDL particles, low density lipoprotein particles. You would typically think my LDL is going to go up because I ate a cheeseburger, which is true, but it might go up even more from a sugary drink. That's how toxic sugar can be to the body. So sugar I'd almost put into its own category. But I think with regard to the other things, dairy and even meat. I do eat meat. I'm not a total vegetarian. I hope Dean's not listening because he's, you know, he's vegan. But I think it really has to do with how those foods are processed. It's all the other junk that's added to a lot of those foods that I think make them really problematic and increase inflammation. What Dean was able to show, and I thought it was fascinating, was that going on a vegan diet was greatly associated with decreasing inflammation in the body and in the brain and could, if it could stall and potentially reverse Alzheimer's disease, that was a big deal. I mean, people, once you get diagnosed with dementia, it is a downward spiral from there on out. He was able to show that you could at least stall it, if not reverse it, by simply changing diet and increasing activity as well. But diet was the big thing and we've anecdotally sort of known this to be true, but I think he was really able to show this. And I think that's, that's certainly made me reconsider my eating. So I've cut back on meat. But, you know, I, I, we, you know, I got three teenagers. You gotta, you gotta balance your, your life with what, you know, I mean, if we were gonna live forever. Gavin, if that was a. Can I call you Gavin, by the way?

[Gavin Newsom]

Please do.

[Dr. Sanjay Gupta]

If, if we, if there was a possibility we could live forever, that immortality was attainable, I might live my life differently. But I think you gotta balance your joy with your, your lifestyle. And, and I'm, I'm a very healthy guy. Exercise every day intensely, but also take long walks with my wife and my dogs and stuff like that. So I have more moderate activity as well. Eat healthily. Don't eat sugar at all. Don't drink alcohol. Alcohol's terrible. I mean, yeah, why do we. Anyways, but, but the, the, I'm in the wine business.

[Gavin Newsom]

You're talking to the wrong guy, but I completely appreciate your point.

[Dr. Sanjay Gupta]

My guess is when you drink wine and I have, I have drank wine and I can app.

[ShipStation]

It's, it's virtues.

[Dr. Sanjay Gupta]

But do you not, do you not get a terrible night's sleep? I mean, I track my sleep. Now, if I have a, this works.

[Gavin Newsom]

Against my personal interests, I'm not going to say no.

[Dr. Sanjay Gupta]

Okay.

[Gavin Newsom]

I would be on sugar. And of course there's a byproduct of the wine as well. But. By the way, are you a coffee drinker? Everybody's got Is it mushroom coffee? People are in, what's going on with coffee? Should I be drinking coffee?

[Dr. Sanjay Gupta]

Yeah, I, I didn't know about the mushroom coffee, but I don't know.

[Gavin Newsom]

That's what everyone's saying, you should try mushroom coffee. I don't know. I, I'm asking you.

[Dr. Sanjay Gupta]

I, I, like, so I, you know, it's a funny, funny thing is I really did not drink coffee up until a few years ago and it was for no particular reason other than I just didn't like the taste of it. I, I, it was unusual because most surgical residents and medical students, they, they start drinking coffee, you know, sort of, you know, early 20s, and it becomes part of their lifestyle. I just never liked it. But during the pandemic actually is when I started drinking coffee. I was waking up at 4:30 in the morning every day and working till 11:30 at night, you know, for a couple years in a row. And my wife actually introduced me to this coffee. I don't know if I were allowed to talk about brands, but I really like it. It's called purity coffee and it's pure coffee. It's just, it's, it's got no, none of the additives that we were talking about. It's, it's pesticide free and to me it tasted really clean. When I drank coffee in the past, it always felt like I could almost taste the aftertaste to it and this was just a really good coffee. And then I started really doing a deep dive into coffee and I think, you know, it's associated with all these different health benefits, cardiac dementia, inflammation overall. So I drink a cup a day, sometimes two cups a day, and I think it's, I think it's been really good for me.

[Gavin Newsom]

All right, well, I think, I mean as the guy who's got a few cups behind him, in front of him.

[Dr. Sanjay Gupta]

On the side, is it, is it just black coffee or what are you drinking?

[Gavin Newsom]

It's just black coffee. No, I'm not adding any of that cream, any of that nonsense.

[Dr. Sanjay Gupta]

Don't add that stuff. And it takes a little bit to get used to the taste. I think of just the black coffee, but once it's there, once you're there.

[Gavin Newsom]

On the other side, you can hold strong.

[Huntsman Mental Health Institute]

Hot days, humid nights and non stop plans. All that heat can increase hair shedding, while a packed schedule can add stress which impact your hair. Neutropol's whole body approach and clinically tested formulas support your hair from within so you can focus on living your best life all summer long. Neutral is the number one dermatologist recommended hair growth supplement brand trusted by over one and a half million people see thicker, stronger, faster growing hair with less shedding in just three to six months with Neutral thinning hair is different for men and women, so a one size fits all approach to hair growth doesn't cut it. Neutral has multiple formulas for men and women that are tailored to different life stages such as postpartum or menopause and lifesty factors such as a plant based lifestyle so you can get just what you need. Plus users of Nutrafol men reported no impact to sexual performance, thank goodness. While many supplements rely solely on ingredient studies, Nutrafol clinically tests final formulations to ensure their efficacy. In a clinical study, 84% of men showed improvement in their hair after six months taking Nutrafol Men Hair Growth Supplement and 90% of women saw overall improvement in their hair after taking Nutrafol Women hair growth supplement for six months. Building a hair growth routine is easy. Order online, no prescription needed. Enjoy free shipping, automated deliveries and up to 20% savings with Nutrafol subscription. Plus get free naturopathic doctor consults and a Headspace Meditation membership. Start your hair growth journey with Nutrafol for a limited time, Nutrifol is offering listeners $10 off your first month subscription. Free shipping. When you go to nutrafol.com enter promo code CULTURISTAS Find out why Nutrafol is the best selling hair growth supplement [e-mail] spelled n u t r-a f o l.com promo cod culturistas that's nutrafol.com promo.

[Epic Fits]

Code culturistas what does feeling safe at home really mean to you? For many, it might seem that having good locks and maybe an alarm that would, you know, make a lot of noise if somebody actually broke in. True security takes more a system that works to prevent that break in that violation of your space from ever happening in the first place. Simplisafe is trusted to protect homes and families. It's about security that is proactive, not just reactive. Most security systems only take action after someone breaks in that's too late. Simplisafe's new Active Guard Outdoor Protection helps stop break ins before they happen. AI powered cameras plus live monitoring agents detect suspicious activity around your property. If someone's lurking, agents talk to them in real time, turn on spotlights and can call the police proactively deterring crime before it starts. No contracts, no hidden fees. Named Best Home security system of 2025 by CNET 4 million plus Americans Trust SimpliSafe ranked number one in customer service by Newsweek and USA Today Monitoring plans start around $1 a day 60 day money back guarantee. Visit simplisafe.com Gavin to claim 50% off a new system with a professional monitoring plan and get your first month free. That's simplisafe.com Gavin there's no safe like.

[ShipStation]

Simplisafe if you run an e commerce business. You know packages don't ship themselves, but with Shipstation it almost feels like they do. But it's not magic. It's powerful automation. ShipStation is the fastest, reliable and affordable way to get products to your customers. It integrates seamlessly with services and selling channels. And because it grows with your business, you'll never need to upgrade. Your customers benefit too. Automated tracking keeps them informed every step of the way. Plus, you'll both save money. A lot of money, thanks to discounts of up to 88% on rates from UPS, DHL Express and USPS, and up to 90% off FedEx. More than 130,000 businesses already use Shipstation to grow their e commerce operations, and that number is rising fast. In fact, during the time it took me to tell you this, 1,400 packages were shipped using ShipStation. Ready to upgrade your shipping experience? Go to shipstation.com and use code IHEART to start your free trial. No credit card or contract required and you can Cancel anytime. That's shipstation.com code iHeart Tired of spills.

[Washable Sofas]

And stains on your sofa? Washablesofas.com has your back featuring the Annabe Collection, the only designer sofa that's machine washable inside and out. Where designer quality meets budget friendly prices. That's right, sofas start at just $699. Enjoy a no risk experience with pet friendly stain resistant and changeable slipcovers made with performance fabrics. Experience cloud like comfort with high resilience foam that's hypoallergenic and never needs fluffing. The sturdy steel frame ensures longevity and the modular pieces can be rearranged anytime. Check out Washable Sofas Dynamics and get up to 60% off your annabe sofa backed by a 30 day satisfaction guarantee. If you're not absolutely in love, send it back for a full refund. No return shipping or restocking fees. Every penny back Upgrade [e-mail] Offers are subject to change and certain restrictions may apply.

[Sonesta Travel Pass]

Sonesta Travel Pass is the most rewarding way to travel. Sign [e-mail] for instant savings and bonus points and perks like early check in and late checkout, room upgrades and free stays. Choose from 1100 hotels across 13 brands and unlock their best rates when you book with Sonesta TravelPass here today, Rome tomorrow. Join [e-mail] that's sinesta.com Terms and conditions apply.

[Gavin Newsom]

How worried should I be about this fluoride movement now we're seeing? I'm in Utah, Florida. There's big debates in Louisiana, other states to take fluoride out of the water. Where did that, where did this even come from? How important is it? I read in the past one of the great success stories in the last half century in terms of just cat, you know, give me your over under on fluoride.

[Dr. Sanjay Gupta]

Yeah, well, so this is what I appreciate about podcasts like this because there's a nuance to this and you can actually get into the nuance a bit. Fluoride in really high doses can be problematic. It can cause something known as skeletal fluorosis. I'm talking about ingested fluoride. So you're taking it into your body through, usually through water. It can, it can cause skeletal fluorosis, which can make your bones in your skeleton weak. It can cause dental fluorosis. I don't know if you've ever seen, Governor, people who have white streaks in their teeth. Yeah, sometimes that is a dental fluorosis. That's an indication of high fluoride levels. And I think most recently and interestingly, there's been concerns about neurotoxicity. There were studies done, all of them outside this country, where fluoride levels are much higher than the United States, where they showed that moms, for example, during pregnancy, if they had high fluoride exposure, their kids later in life, it was associated with a lower iq. So that was obviously concerning. These are hard studies to do. And there were some, you know, getting the methods right on these studies is challenging. But I think there was enough of a concern about that for people to really start paying attention. To give you a little bit of context, the levels that we're talking about are at least twice as high as the levels in the drinking water in the United States. So quite a bit higher. And in medicine, we always use this phrase, the dose makes the poison things in any, just about anything in a high enough dose could potentially be problematic. But it's, it's, you know, it definitely gets people's attention. What I would say when you talk about the fact that it's touted as one of the greatest public health achievements of the last century, I saw that as well. And I think that there's a kernel of truth to that. But the nuance is that most of the data that exists on the benefits of fluoride exists before 1975. 1975 was a timeframe when dental care became much more widely available and fluoridated toothpaste. So prior to that, fluoridating the water probably had an incrementally, a much bigger benefit than it does today. So it doesn't provide as much benefit. I think it's low risk because the levels don't get as high as they used to. They don't get as high in the United States, I should say, as they do in other countries. But it's also lower reward. So fluoride today, lower risk, lower reward than it used to be. Iceland does not fluoridate their water. England does not fluoridate their water. Israel does not fluoridate their water. In Iceland, they, the kids all do twice a month fluoride rinses. In England, interestingly, they fluoridate milk. So it's not water. So you're fluoridating milk. There's like, we don't want to put it in the water supply, but kids, you know, who drink milk, they should still get their fluoride. That was sort of their thinking. Calgary in Canada, they stopped fluoridating their water back in 2011, I believe, but then brought it back because cavity rates went up. And there was a new study that said in the United States, how much of an impact would it have to. To take a fluoride out of the water? And they said it could potentially be, you know, 25 million more cavities within the next five years, 50 million cavities within the next 10 years. So, you know, I think we need better dental care overall. And this is almost a policy discussion. I think people, it's hard to get dental care. It's hard to get dental coverage. But I think if we had fluoride rinses, if kids got better dental care, then I think the incremental benefit of fluoride goes down even more. Secretary Kennedy's been talking about fluoride for a long time, heavy metals in general, but fluoride in particular, for a long time. And, you know, as with these other things we're talking about, there's a nuance to it. I don't think it's the. As big a public health issue now as it was 50 years ago, 60 years ago. But. And we can even model how much of an impact it would have. But I think it really speaks to the fact that we need better dental care overall.

[Gavin Newsom]

Boy, I really appreciate the nuance of the response. And just look, it goes to, I think, our frustration just generally as consumers and as people that, you know, just are so desperate just for the facts and a deeper understanding. And you talked earlier about just the politics and these binaries and, and how everything is seen through a political lens, just the larger issue of misinformation. I mean, you know, obviously Covid seemed to expose a lot of that stress and anxiety and, you know, obviously our politics is been, I think, profoundly shaped sort of post Covid framework, and I think in some respects significantly so obviously with RFK as HHS secretary, in terms of healthcare policy today, what's your, you know, as you reflect back and, you know, your. Your own experience living through, sort of helping us all through the. The pandemic experience. And Covid, how do we get back to the kind of platform that we need in order to row in the same direction as a country to be prepared again, my gosh, for another novel virus moving forward where we're not at each other's throats, we're not talking down to each other, past each other, help give us a sense of how we get back into the trust and truth space.

[Dr. Sanjay Gupta]

I think it's tough, for sure. And as a medical reporter, I think I have a really front row seat to how this is all sort of unfolded. I'd say one thing, just for historical reference is that if you go back and you look at the 1918 flu pandemic, that was a time when obviously we didn't have cell phone, social media, you know, rapid sort of spread of information, but there was still a lot of distrust overall of basic public health recommendations. There was a fair that was supposed to take place, I believe, in St. Louis and. Or maybe in Philadelphia. Philadelphia and St. Louis were the two cities. One city said, how can we possibly do a big fair like this in the middle of a pandemic? And the other city said, we don't think it's a big deal. We'll do the fair. So they took it on, and they had 12 times the rate of flu deaths as the city that chose not to do it. Point being that there has been this skepticism that I think exists just in human nature forever. You know, and I'll go so far as to say this, Governor, maybe some of that skepticism is necessary. You know, I think that. I think that, you know, if we look at human beings, like organisms, some people just have their antennas raised really, really High. And I think when your antennas raised really, really high, two things happen. You see things that aren't there. You just see things and the blurry off in the distance and you think that there's an attack coming, it's not coming. But on the other hand, sometimes you see things before everyone else does as well. And so I think there are people whose antennas are raised really high who are just concerned citizens. I think there are shit starters who sort of fall into that category as well, but not all of them. It's a heterogeneous group of people who are going to be resistant to basic public health measures. It's a much more diverse group of people than I think I realized. That's one thing I think with regard to misinformation and even disinformation, purposeful misinformation, I think my largest concern right now is that we're getting to the point and I hope it changes. And I'm optimistic, I'm an optimist, I think it will change. But I think right now we're at a point where nobody believes anything. Yeah, I was talking to my youngest daughter, this is about a year and a half ago, and I was very close to Senator John McCain. And she showed me some meme on TikTok or Instagram or something about John McCain. She knew that we were close and, and, and especially after he had his brain tumor and things. He, and, and this was a funny meme, but it somehow suggested that he was alive and that his whole death was a hoax, right? Crazy, crazy stuff. And I said, hey, Soleil. Okay, funny, right, but you know that's not true, right? And she said, yeah, it's here on Instagram, whatever. And I said, yeah, but you know it's not true. And she said to me, governor, she said, any of this stuff is true, dad. And it really got me thinking, like, what happens to a generation of people that grow up without a locus of trust? I mean, forget who they trust. I, I, you know, they should trust you, they should trust me, they should trust experts. I think I really do believe that. But maybe they don't trust anybody. And I think unless you can touch somebody, unless you know somebody personally, you don't, you don't really trust them anymore, which I think is, is, is really problematic. And I think that's where we're headed. It starts to hyper localize suspicion of everybody. And I think that's where we're headed. So I think for me, you know, as a reporter, instead of constantly combating misinformation, which is like playing whack a mole all day long, just continuing to try and put out good information and explain things in a way that is accessible to people and. And leans into the nuance and the uncertainty of things as a country. If the question you're asking is about preparing for the next pandemic, I would say the precautionary principle is important, and that is how we do many things in our country. We have more than a dozen aircraft carriers right now that are circumnavigating the globe, and they're keeping us safe. We don't pay a lot of attention to that. It's not something we have in the forefront of our minds, but they're out there basically displaying the precautionary principle. A virus is a national security threat. We saw what it did to our country. If we're able to apply the precautionary principle at a policy level, so things just go into effect, as opposed to Seattle's doing this and New York is doing this and Alabama is doing this, and Florida's saying, we're not going to do any of that, and it was just a mess. Instead, if we actually applied the precautionary principle as a country, treated it as a national security threat, which it is, I think we'd be much better prepared. But, you know, right now we're in a position where you have people who believe Covid was a hoax, the entire thing. So we. We have some work to do, I think, before we get there, because I.

[Gavin Newsom]

Think, you know, there were obviously mistakes we did make. There was. There was lessons that we do need to learn, and there were decisions that need to be reconciled going forward. And I think if we're in denial about that, that we're not going to build that level of trust moving forward for those that feel very, very differently.

[Dr. Sanjay Gupta]

No question. And I think, you know, one thing that I think was a real learning point. I think, you know, as doctors, if we're, you know, recommending. I was in the operating room all day yesterday, you know, taking out brain tumors and doing things like that. We know that it leaves a toll on people to do that, to recommend chemotherapy. We know the impact of that on their lives. We think the benefit is that it could cure their cancer. But we know it's going to be. It's going to be tough sledding for a while. How do you convey that at a societal level? You know, closing schools, the impact of that, you know, that was tough on my kids. You know, so. So to. To really, I think, be very mindful of the, the, the, the impact. I'm not saying the, the decisions are wrong, but being really mindful of the impact of those decisions on people, it's, it's tough. You know, as doctors, I think we're a little bit more trained toward it and because we have to like, look at risk, reward for everything. But I think assessing risk and Balanc country is hard and I think that gets back to where we started this, this precautionary principle. We don't know, let's be cautious, let's be careful, let's not accelerate around the blind curves here. Let's, let's hit the brakes a little bit, you know, and I think that that's, that's still, to me, that still makes sense.

[Washable Sofas]

Life's messy. We're talking spills, stains, pets and kids. But with Annabe, you never have to stress about messes again. At WashablesOfAs.com, discover Annabe sofas. The only fully machine washable sofas inside and out, starting at just $699. Made with liquid and stain resistant fabrics, that means fewer stains and more peace of mind. Designed for real life, our sofas feature changeable fabric covers allowing you to reflect, refresh your style anytime. Need flexibility? Our modular design lets you rearrange your sofa effortlessly. Perfect for cozy apartments or spacious homes. Plus, they're earth friendly and built to last. That's why over 200,000 happy customers have made the switch. Upgrade your space today. Visit washablesofas.com now and bring home a sofa made for life. That's washablesofas.com offers are subject to change and certain restrictions may apply.

[Sonesta Travel Pass]

Find home wherever you roam at Sinesta? Es and Simply Suites. Stretch out and enjoy homelike amenities for however long you need. And when you're a Sinesta TravelPass member, staying at Sinesta? Es and Simply Suites means earning points toward free nights, upgrades and more. Go to sinesta.com and book your stay and unlock their best rates with Sinesta Travel Pass. Here today, Rome tomorrow. Join [e-mail] Terms and conditions apply. Hi, I'm Cindy Crawford and I'm the founder of Meaningful Beauty. Well, I don't know about you, but like I never liked being told, oh, wow, you look so good for your age. Like, why even bother saying that? Why don't you just say you look great at any age, Every age. That's what Meaningful Beauty is all about. We create products that make you feel confident in your skin at the age you are now. Meaningful beauty, beautiful skin at every age. Learn [e-mail].

[Lowe's]

Lowe's knows July 4th savings are worth celebrating right now. Get up to 40% off select major appliances and get an additional 10% off two or more select major appliances plus get three Scott's Naturescapes 1.5 cubic foot mulch bags for just $10. These deals are coming in hot Lowes we help you save valid through 7 9. Selection varies by location while supplies last seeloes.com for more details. Excludes Alaskan Hawaii.

[Radhi Devlukia]

Just like great shoes, great books take you places through unforgettable love stories and into conversations with characters you'll never forget.

[Dr. Sanjay Gupta]

I think any good romance, it gives me this feeling of like butterflies.

[Radhi Devlukia]

I'm Danielle Roubais and this is bookmarked by Reese's Book Club, the new podcast from hello Sunshine and I Heart Podcasts. Every week I sit down with your favorite book lovers, authors, celebrities, booktalkers and more to explore the stories that shape us on the page and off. I've been reading every Reese's Book Club pick, deep diving book talk theories and up obsessing over book to screen casts for years. And now I get to talk to the people making the magic. So if you've ever fallen in love with a fictional character or cried at the last chapter or passed a book to a friend saying you have to read this, this podcast is for you. Listen to Bookmarked by Reese's Book Club on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast.

[Gavin Newsom]

Final question I'm curious. You know, you speaking of sense, speaking of of risk, speaking of trust, where are we to make sense of AI and medicine? We're seeing just runaway costs in healthcare. It seems like every other industry has found efficiencies. Every other industry. Costs seem to go down. It seems like more technology is introduced to the healthcare sector. Our costs seem to go up and up and up. Is AI overhyped in terms of medical expenses? Is it overhyped in terms of research and discovery? Is it under hyped as it relates to imaging benefits and just sort of super capacity to address chronic disease and solve for some of life's great evils and cancers?

[Dr. Sanjay Gupta]

I think it's going to be magnificent ultimately what AI can do for healthcare. It's going to need guardrails, but I think even those are, you know, very trainable. I mean there's, there's, there's great companies, one of them out of California called Open Evidence, where you're already starting to See, like, for me, I'll give you an example. Guy comes into the office with back pain and leg pain and has got a herniated disc in their lumbar spine, the lower back. Do they get an operation? Do they not get an operation? I could ask 10 different spine surgeons and maybe get 11 different answers. AI could look at 9 billion pieces of data within a fraction of second and said, here are 50,000 other people who are just like the person you're describing, and here are their various outcomes based on evaluating their medical records and doing this all in a de identified way. My residents are already walking around talking to their phones as they're walking into a patient room to figure out the best approach to whatever ails their patient. So it's already changing, I think. I sat on the subcommittee for AI for the National Academy of Medicine, and I think one of the things that really struck me as we were creating these guardrails was this idea that we still have to think of AI from a trust but verify sort of model. It's wildly effective at finding breast cancers, for example, on mammograms, but sometimes it errors wildly as well. And, you know, these hallucinations, as people call them, I think they're already starting to, to get better. About that. I think it's going to, you know, we've been talking about big data, you know, for decades now. AI is actually going to be able to make sense of that big data and I think make it valuable for, for patients. I'll tell you a quick anecdote. You know, if you've been to the hospital lately or a clinic and you got a letter from, you know, sort of summarizing your care, it probably was generated by an AI platform.

[Gavin Newsom]

That's interesting.

[Dr. Sanjay Gupta]

And most of. And when they, when they blinded these letters and they compared them to actual letters written by doctors or nurses and then gave them to random people, what they found was that the AI letters were often referred to as more human. The human letters, which I thought was that just.

[Gavin Newsom]

Is that the state of doctors? Is that the quality of.

[Dr. Sanjay Gupta]

You know, I think if you said to me, hey, you know, my daughter's going to get married, you know, in July, you know, and I'm really excited about, about that. But you're here for your herniated disc. I may have deprioritized that information, whereas an AI platform may have listened to that and said, hey, Governor, I hope the wedding went well with your daughter. And, you know, just these human touches, you had these moments where humans were looking at these AI letters. And they were pausing at the moment that they read these human touches. And it was almost like humans learning from machines how to be more human, I think.

[ShipStation]

So.

[Dr. Sanjay Gupta]

I'm bullish on AI. I think one thing about new technologies is that there's always a disparity in terms of haves and have nots when they first come out. Before mammography, black women and white women had similar rates of breast cancer. After mammography, breast cancer rates went down overall, but much more so for white women than black women. We see those disparities with AI already. So we have to address disparities, make sure this is very available and accessible to people. But I think it's gonna, it's gonna change healthcare. We're gonna come up with new treatments and the right clinical decision making much more quickly. As a result of AI, in 30.

[Gavin Newsom]

Years, you're still doing brain surgeries or is a robot doing them?

[Dr. Sanjay Gupta]

No, I'm still do. I'm still doing them. You'd be proud. You know, I, I say this as a, as a brain surgeon who always carries around a brain with me. I got it right here.

[Gavin Newsom]

Yeah.

[Dr. Sanjay Gupta]

I don't know that a robot is yet able to fully grapple with three and a half pounds of the most enigmatic tissue in the known universe. I still think humans have to do that eventually. We may, we may get there. But right now I just think the, you know, the dexterity and sort of the types of operations that we do. But look, in cardiac surgery and prostate cancer surgery, you have da Vinci, you have robots that have been doing that stuff for a while.

[ShipStation]

We'll get there.

[Dr. Sanjay Gupta]

I'll be retired, I think, by that point, hopefully. I don't know.

[Gavin Newsom]

If you keep, if you keep to your wellness program, you're going to be fine.

[Dr. Sanjay Gupta]

You know, Governor, trying to.

[Gavin Newsom]

Hardly. Hardly. I'm gonna watch. Okay. I, I already have my instructions on, on my meat consumption. And yes, I'll acknowledge, I'll acknowledge the.

[Dr. Sanjay Gupta]

Can you be in the wine business and not drink so much wine?

[Epic Fits]

No.

[Gavin Newsom]

I mean, that's an issue. I mean, it's an objective issue. But I shouldn't be, I can't be promoting. Well, maybe I should be promoting my business. Apparently, that's not an issue anymore in this country.

[Dr. Sanjay Gupta]

Jesus. Hey, can I ask you what's going on with you real quick? Like, what's, what's, what's up after, you know, Sacramento?

[Gavin Newsom]

Well, it sure as hell ain't going to be medical school. I have no capacity there. But it's, it's to Be determined. All, all of it to be determined. A time of profound uncertainty. And I'm just trying to, you know, I'm trying not only to not get fined today, but not get arrested tomorrow in the next few months. It's crazy what's going on in this country. But I, I will say though, on a serious note, just, you know, it's also remarkable how just trying to just absorb what's happening with health care policy from the meta. We didn't even get into Medicaid cuts. We didn't even get to the broader issues associated with the quote, unquote reorg@hhs and all the cuts to, you know, just people out there promoting vaccines, HIV issues and treatments. I mean, this is this a lot going on and it's hard to absorb just 100 plus days in.

[Dr. Sanjay Gupta]

I, I know. And as a reporter, I mean, just every day there's something new and it changes. It's so, so ephemeral. Like you get all ready to report on it an hour later. It's, it's, it's different. But, you know, keep fighting the good fight. You know, I think certainly as reporters, we're. Information matters, good information matters. Fewer people are consuming it. You know, we're well aware of that.

[Gavin Newsom]

Right.

[Dr. Sanjay Gupta]

Yeah. It doesn't mean we stop trying, you know, keep at it.

[Gavin Newsom]

Oh, well, I love what you mean to your point. I mean, I made the point earlier, but your podcast is fabulous and it's great to see you, you know, out there doing, especially with the. Just those sort of short clips where you're answering those tough questions, but doing with the kind of nuance I thought, and I mean this sincerely, your response on the fluoride is just something we don't hear. And it's hard to have a segment that is that comprehensive because it just provides a different level of appreciation for perspective on this. It's, it's not just as simple as. Yes. And Noah.

[Dr. Sanjay Gupta]

It's, it's not. And you know, I'm a dad, you know, I mean, first and foremost, then a husband, but a dad, you know, who think like I, I do put myself in the position of those people who are the honest skeptics. I'm an honest skeptic. You know, most, most scientists are on a. Skeptics, I think. And I think that, I think that that helps. You know, I would I do that for my kid? Would I do that for my mom? I think it makes it.

[Gavin Newsom]

There you go. No, it's. And by the way, we had the exact. I remember that conversation. You mentioned with your wife. Do we do all of the shots at once?

[Dr. Sanjay Gupta]

Yes.

[Gavin Newsom]

Or do you face. I quite literally had that conversation with four kids four different times. We concluded all four times. Let's just get it done. But, but, but that. It's a legitimate sensitivity. I wouldn't call it quote unquote hesitancy in this sort of weaponized sense, but just human. And you have to acknowledge that, that perspective.

[Dr. Sanjay Gupta]

I don't mock those people at all. I mean, there are people who mock them. I. That's not gonna work. I mean, maybe that's the number one thing about misinformation. The mocking doesn't. That doesn't work. It just, it just creates tribes and politicizes it even further. So try not to do that.

[Gavin Newsom]

God bless. Couldn't agree more. Hey, I really appreciate you taking the time. This was fabulous. Thanks for all you're doing. Keep doing what you're doing. You're a bright light in this darkness and I appreciate you taking the time.

[Dr. Sanjay Gupta]

Means a lot coming from you, Governor. Thank you.

[Sonesta Travel Pass]

Travel smarter, not harder at America's Best Value Inn by Sonesta. With convenient locations from coast to coast and value packed comfort at every turn. And when you're a Sonesta Travel Pass member, staying at America's Best Value Inn means earning points toward free nights, upgrades and more. Go to sonesta.com to book your stay and unlock their best rates with Sonesta Travel Pass here today, Rome tomorrow. Join [e-mail] Terms and conditions apply.

[Lowe's]

Lowe's knows July 4th savings are worth celebrating right now. Get up to 40% off, select major appliances and get an additional 10% off. Two or more select major appliances plus get three Scott's Naturescapes 1.5 cubic foot mulch bags for just $10. These deals are coming in hot. Lowes we help you save. Valid through 7 9. Selection varies by location while supplies last. See lowe's.com for more details. Excludes Alaska and Hawaii.

[Huntsman Mental Health Institute]

In sitcoms, when someone has a problem, they just blurt it out and move on.

[Dr. Sanjay Gupta]

Well, I lost my job and my parakeet is missing. How was your day?

[Huntsman Mental Health Institute]

But the real world is different. Managing life's challenges can be overwhelming. So what do we do? We get support. The Huntsman Mental Health Institute and the Ad Council have mental health resources available for you at loveyourmindtoday.org that's loveyourmindtoday.org See how much further you can go when you take care of your mental health.

[Radhi Devlukia]

Hey, I'm Radhi Devlukia and I'm the host of a really good Cry podcast and I have the opportunity to talk to Vivian too. Whether you're trying to get out of debt, build wealth, negotiate like a boss, or just finally understand how to do money right, Vivian is the person to ask.

[Sonesta Travel Pass]

Not understanding your own money and not understanding finances. There is risk for financial abuse.

[Dr. Sanjay Gupta]

Yeah.

[Sonesta Travel Pass]

And that is why every single woman needs to be good with money.

[Radhi Devlukia]

Listen to a really good cry on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast.

[Dr. Sanjay Gupta]

I know a lot of cops. They get asked all the time, have.

[ShipStation]

You ever had to shoot your gun?

[Dr. Sanjay Gupta]

Sometimes the answer is Y. But there's a company dedicated to a.

[ShipStation]

Future where the answer will always be no.

[Dr. Sanjay Gupta]

This is Absolute Season 1 Taser Incorporated.

[Epic Fits]

I get right back there and it's bad.

[Dr. Sanjay Gupta]

Listen to Absolute Season 1 Taser Inc. On the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or.

[ShipStation]

Wherever you get your podcasts.

[Radhi Devlukia]

This is an iHeart podcast.