The Briefing: They Were Always Coming For Your Right To Vote With Attorney General Eric Holder

Summary

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Podcast Summary:

This is Gavin Newsom
Episode: The Briefing: They Were Always Coming For Your Right To Vote With Attorney General Eric Holder
Date: April 30, 2026

Episode Overview

In this episode, California Governor Gavin Newsom sits down with former U.S. Attorney General Eric Holder to dissect the ongoing attack on voting rights in America. The conversation centers on the persistent issues of voter suppression, gerrymandering, and the manipulation of redistricting for partisan gain. Holder shares insights from his years leading the fight for fair elections, particularly as chair of the National Democratic Redistricting Committee (NDRC), and breaks down both victories and current threats across the nation.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Root of Modern Gerrymandering & Its Impact

• Origin Story: Holder shares how his work with the NDRC began after a revealing conversation reflecting on the Obama administration's challenges, pinpointing gerrymandering as a key obstacle:
  • “We really came to the conclusion that gerrymandering was a problem that prevented him from getting in full his agenda, though he had significant accomplishments.”
    (Eric Holder, 02:32)
  • “Republicans had put together through...Project Red Map in 2011 gerrymanders in a whole variety of states that have endured...”
    (Eric Holder, 03:17)
• Impact on Democracy: Holder emphasizes how rigged maps shield politicians from accountability and dilute the power of the popular vote.
  • “…Democrats had to over perform by about 22% in order to get to 50-50 in the House of Representatives. As a result of what we’ve done, that number’s now just about one and a half percent…”
    (Eric Holder, 03:47)

2. The Shelby County Supreme Court Decision (2013)

• What Happened: Newsom prods Holder to revisit the landmark case that crippled the Justice Department’s ability to pre-approve state voting changes.
  • “Chief Justice Roberts... stated very famously in his majority opinion that America has changed... They used that as the basis to take from the Justice Department the ability that it had to preclear changes that states wanted to make when it came to all kinds of electoral things...”
    (Eric Holder, 04:41)
• Immediate Fallout: This led to an explosion of poll closures, purges of voters—especially from communities of color—and other suppression tactics.
  • “We have seen poll closures all around the country...We’ve seen voter purges that disproportionately occur in communities of color...”
    (Eric Holder, 05:12)

3. Achievements & Challenges in Redistricting Reform

• Victories: Holder highlights progress in pushing for fairness, including support for independent commissions even in red states.
  • “Wherever we tried to get an independent commission, whether it was a red state or a blue state, people overwhelmingly supported them. We got them in Missouri, we got them in Utah...”
    (Eric Holder, 06:55)
• Remaining Obstacles: Despite progress, gerrymandered maps persist in states like Texas, Wisconsin, Ohio, Florida, and North Carolina.

4. Racial Dimensions of Gerrymandering

• Impact on Communities of Color: Holder lays bare how racial minorities are routinely disenfranchised through manipulated district lines.
  • “This gerrymandering is done on the backs of people of color...You really decrease, dilute the power, the electoral power that communities of color have in Texas.”
    (Eric Holder, 08:16)
• Excuses vs. Reality: Efforts to disguise racial gerrymandering as “partisan” don’t obscure the effects.
  • “They’ll try to say, this is only partisan... But if you look, it almost always comes down to making it more difficult for people of color to vote...”
    (Eric Holder, 08:59)

5. California as “Gold Standard” – and the Response to Texas

• Independent Commissions: Both Newsom and Holder express pride in California’s model.
  • “We’ve always thought of the California Independent Commission as the gold standard...”
    (Eric Holder, 11:11)
• Shifting Tactics: Texas’ aggressive mid-decade redistricting forced Democratic strategists—even in California—to temporarily reconsider strict independence.
  • “Given what they did in Texas and what they're doing in other states as well. We couldn’t simply disarm. We had to respond to that.”
    (Eric Holder, 11:46)
  • “It's the only maps that are now being presented to the voters themselves. They will decide for themselves in the most transparent way and in a temporary way that ends... only in response to Texas.”
    (Gavin Newsom, 13:05)

6. The Broad National Picture: 2026 and Beyond

• Other Battleground States: Newsom and Holder survey ongoing threats outside Texas—Missouri, Indiana, Ohio, Utah, Florida, Kansas.
  • “There’s a whole range of other states where they’ve made the determination that they're going to really kind of cheat. And that's what it is...They’re going to cheat to try to hold on to the majority that they have in the House of Representatives.”
    (Eric Holder, 14:37)
• Motivation: Holder describes the prevalence of redistricting abuses as stemming from fear—of public will, of accountability, of defending unpopular actions.
• Patriotic Duty: He frames the struggle for fair voting as fundamental to American democracy:
  • “It’s fundamentally un-American. And it’s unpatriotic. You know, it’s cheating. But it also goes against that which... makes, I think, this nation exceptional. We trust the people to make determinations about policy and the direction of the nation, and they want to cut the people out of the process.”
    (Eric Holder, 15:23)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On the challenge:
  “We really came to the conclusion that gerrymandering was a problem that prevented him from getting in full his agenda, though he had significant accomplishments.”
  (Eric Holder, 02:32)

• On the right to vote:
  “People like the idea that citizens ought to choose who their representatives are as opposed to politicians picking their voters.”
  (Eric Holder, 04:00)

• On racial gerrymandering:
  “This gerrymandering is done on the backs of people of color...You really decrease, dilute the power, the electoral power that communities of color have in Texas.”
  (Eric Holder, 08:16)

• On democratic resilience:
  “We trust the people to make determinations about policy and the direction of the nation, and they want to cut the people out of the process.”
  (Eric Holder, 15:23)

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• Origin and Motivation for NDRC and Redistricting Fight: 02:31 – 04:22
• Explaining the Shelby County Supreme Court Decision: 04:22 – 05:56
• Victories in Independent Commissions and Redistricting: 06:40 – 07:58
• Racial Dimensions of Gerrymandering: 07:58 – 09:39
• California’s Gold Standard & Temporary Shift in Strategy: 09:39 – 13:05
• The Evolving National Landscape and What’s at Stake in 2026: 14:09 – 15:51

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Tone & Language

The discussion is serious, factual, and urgent—but maintains a collaborative and pragmatic spirit. Holder and Newsom both express frustration at anti-democratic tactics while emphasizing transparency, fairness, and the patriotic need to defend voting rights.

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Summary

This episode offers an incisive, accessible look into the state of American democracy, explaining how gerrymandering and voter suppression threaten the people’s voice nationwide. Holder’s practical reflections and Newsom’s policy-focused questions combine for a masterclass in electoral reform—making clear that the fight for voting rights is far from over.

Transcript

[Gavin Newsom]

This is Gavin Newsom and this is Eric Holder.

[iHeart Podcast Host]

This is an iHeart podcast. Guaranteed Human

[Energy Trust of Oregon Representative]

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[Robert Smigel]

Another podcast from some SNL late night comedy guy not quite on Humor Me with Robert Smigel and Friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you friends. Funnier this week my guests SNL's Mikey Day and head writer Streeter Sidel help an acapella band with their between songs banter.

[Tab Ramos]

Where does your group perform?

[Eric Holder]

We do some retirement homes.

[Robert Smigel]

Those people are starving for banter. Listen to Humor Me with Robert Smigel and friends on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.

[iHeart Podcast Host]

Your twenties can be so exciting, but they can also be really overwhelming, confusing and honestly, just kind of lonely. May is mental health awareness month and the psychology of your twenties is breaking down the science behind the biggest roadblocks we face.

[Energy Trust of Oregon Representative]

I was six years into my career, the 80 hour weeks and just the first one in, the last one out and I ended up burning out. There was a large chunk of my twenties that I like was just so wanting to like be out of that phase, out of my skin and I just like really regret not living in the present more.

[iHeart Podcast Host]

You don't need to have everything figured out right now. You just need to understand yourself a little bit better. Listen to the psychology of your 20s on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcast or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Tom Bogert]

American soccer is about to explode.

[Tab Ramos]

The World cup is coming.

[Eric Holder]

Ramos sending on Ernie Stewart the chip score.

[Tab Ramos]

I'm Tab Ramos.

[Tom Bogert]

I'm Tom Bogut. On our podcast Inside American Soccer, you'll get the real storylines, the biggest decisions and the truth about the U.S. national team.

[Tab Ramos]

It wouldn't be a huge surprise if our team ends up in the quarterfinals or potentially a great run into the semifinals.

[Tom Bogert]

Listen to Inside American Soccer with Tom Boger and Tab ramos on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcast.

[Eric Holder]

He and I sat down and talked about let's kind of look back and see what is it that we didn't accomplish and what were the reasons why we were not as successful as we might have been. And we looked at a variety of things and you know, it really kind of, we kind of tried to figure out, well, why, why, why? And we really came to the conclusion that gerrymandering was a problem that prevented him from getting in full his agenda, though he had significant accomplishments. And as we looked more, he said, you know, and a lot of the stuff that's coming out of the states is unpopular and nevertheless gets passed. And that was also as a result of gerrymandering in state legislatures. And so we said, all right, let's go after that problem. And so we formed up the National Democratic Redistricting Committee in January of 2017 to really promote fair fairness in the redistricting process Republicans had put together through a thing called Project red map in 2011, gerrymanders in a whole variety of states that have endured, endured through the course of that whole decade and put in place measures at the state level that people didn't like, but nevertheless, Republicans did it and didn't suffer any political consequence because of the gerrymanders. And then we had a gerrymandered House of Representatives. And if you look when we started out, Democrats had to over perform by about 22% in order to get to 50, 50 in the house of Representatives. As a result of what we've done, that number's now just about one and a half percent, something like that. We can actually handle that. And so we've promoted fairness. And that is fairness has almost been like a weapon for us. We use that word. People like the idea that citizens ought to choose who their representatives are as opposed to politicians picking their voters. And so that's why we have been engaged in this fight.

[Gavin Newsom]

Mr. Attorney General, so much of what you tried to achieve and pursue in 2017 had a little bit of its origin story in what happened with the Shelby county decision in the Supreme Court, a 5, 4 decision in 2013. Remind everybody what happened at the Supreme Court in 2013.

[Eric Holder]

2013, the Supreme Court, as you said in a 5, 4 decision, Chief Justice Roberts, writing for the majority, he stated very famously in his majority opinion that America has changed as a result. They used that as the basis to take from the Justice Department the ability that it had to pre clear changes that states wanted to make when it came to all kinds of electoral things, whether it was how lines were drawn with regard to certain districts, where polling places should be opened or closed, where voter purges should be allowed, took away from the Justice Department the ability to challenge states when they tried to do these things. And that has had a really negative impact. We have seen poll closures all around the country. It's one of the reasons why you see long lines in certain states. We've seen voter purges that disproportionately occur in communities of color in places where Democrats are perceived to live. A whole range of things has happened since the Shelby county case. It's taken the Justice Department not off the field, but certainly taken away from the Justice Department a lot of the tools that it once had.

[Gavin Newsom]

And so in an effort to sort of push back, you've been a big part of your organization is also highlighting some of those purges as it relates to the voting rolls, highlighting some of is just overt voter suppression activities as it relates to reducing the number of polling options in places. What you know, and it led to a lot of victories. And I think what I'd love to highlight is not just the problem, but some of your success in terms of what your organization has been able to achieve. And I want to get back to Prop 50. I want to get back to what's happening not just in Texas, but across this country at this moment. But talk to me a little bit about what you were able to achieve with the organization in 2018, 1920, over the course of the last decade or so.

[Eric Holder]

Yeah, I mean, you know, if you look at the work that we have done since 2017 by, you know, focusing, using a state based strategy, different strategy, you know, depending on the state, by supporting candidates who would stand for fairness, by challenging laws that were put in place or procedures that were being used in a variety of states, by raising the consciousness, people about the importance of fair redistricting, by standing for independent commissions and trying to get those in states wherever we could. And where it's interesting, wherever we tried to get an independent commission, whether it was a red state or a blue state, people overwhelmingly supported them. We got them in Missouri, we got them in Utah. And then Republican legislatures did things to the efforts that we had, but the people always supported them. And so that's what we have done, use those different tools and. And as a result, we ended up with maps in 2024 that a lot of analysts as well as the New York Times said produced the fairest maps, you know, in generations now. Fairest, but not totally fair. There's still states that are still gerrymandered. If you look at Texas, if you look at Wisconsin, Ohio, Florida, North Carolina, there are still places that still are still gerrymandered and are still a focus of our work.

[Gavin Newsom]

And a big part of just the gerrymandering and just to sort of unpack this a little bit more, the racial dimensions cannot be understated or at least even overstated. I mean, so the impacts, the black community, Hispanic community, talk a little bit more about how that manifests in many of these different states.

[Eric Holder]

That's a really important point. This gerrymandering is done on the backs of people of color. And one only has to look at what's going on in Texas now. They get their, they think five seats. I think they're being a little optimistic, but they get whatever it is they get out of this gerrymandering that they're doing at the expense of people of color in largely urban areas, largely Hispanic, but African Americans, you know, as well. We see them, you know, breaking up districts in Austin, Texas and San Antonio, enjoying these really weird lines so that you really decrease, dilute the power, the electoral power that communities of color have in Texas. Now they'll try to say, this is only partisan, these are only partisan things that we have done, as if that somehow makes it better. You know, we're not racist, we're just doing things that are inconsistent with our sense of who we are, inconsistent with our Constitution. But it's only on a partisan basis. But if you look, it always, almost always comes down to making it more difficult for people of color to vote and then taking away from people of color, communities of color, the political power that they long sought and have tried to hold on to.

[Gavin Newsom]

So California is one of those states with an independent redistricting commission. It was a commission that when I was mayor, there was an effort to repeal it that I publicly opposed because long supported the idea of independent redistricting. And it's a point of pride that this state has been one of the leaders. What happened, however, in Texas changed the equation. And I'm curious, just from your prism and your perspective as a champion of independent redistricting as well, what does Texas represent to you? And first, if I could just unpack a deeper question, why do you think President Trump made the phone call to Greg Abbott? Why do you think he even pursued this mid decade redistricting strategy in the first place?

[Eric Holder]

Well, before he picked up the phone, he looked at his desk, picked up some papers that said, these are your polling numbers, Mr. President. And he made the determination that unless we cheat, unless we come up with more safe Republican seats, we're in real danger of losing our majority in the House of Represent Representatives. And that would really establish a really huge obstacle to doing the kinds of radical things that they have done in the first eight months and want to continue to do over the course of the next, you know, next three years or so. And I think that's the thing that generated the call from the president to the, to the governor in Texas. And it's interesting thing, you know, when he called, when the president called those folks in Georgia and said, I need 11,780 votes, when it came to the 2020 Republicans in Georgia, you know, Secretary of State Raffensper, a person who I don't agree with on a whole bunch of stuff, you know, they at least had the guts to say, no, we're not going to do that, called Greg Abbott and he expressed some, you know, little concern about it at the beginning, but at the end of the day did exactly what it is that, you know, the president asked him to do. You know, we've always thought of the California Independent Commission as the gold standard. It's something that, as I've campaigned around the country for fairness, I've always pointed to California. And I think the system in California is a great one. But I think the determination that you made and other Democrats in California was exactly the right one. Given what they did in Texas and what they're doing in other states as well. We couldn't simply disarm. We had to respond to that. And what I've said, you know, I thought about this long and hard before I said, you know, this is something I think we ought to do because I've been fighting, I've been fighting against gerrymandering either by Democrats or Republicans. But I think that what we're, what's happening in California makes a great deal of sense. It is something that kind of meets this three part test of mine. It's got to be responsive. And so it's certainly responsive to that which happened in Texas. It's got to be responsible, didn't go crazy, just came up with a way in which you try to come up with additional seats and it's got to be temporary. I want to get back to this whole fight for fairness and the way in which it's crafted in California in addition to having the people ultimately vote on it, which is not what happened in Texas, it only will exist until after the next census.

[Gavin Newsom]

No, and I appreciate this. Your evolution was mine as well as someone that believes in the principle of independent redistricting as well. So it wasn't an immediate response, frankly, was in response to outreach by legislative leaders in Texas that said, well, hey, California, have our back. And we thought it may be a rhetorical play just to support them and say, we're watching, we're paying attention. But realizing the consequences of these five seats and how that can tip the balance and rig the next election in the 2026, we were able to fashion a process that, as you say, is temporary, transparent and Democratic. It's the only maps that are now being presented to the voters themselves. They will decide for themselves in the most transparent way and in a temporary way that ends, as you suggest, after the 28 and 30 and into the 32 census will revert back to its original form again only in response to Texas. But I want to ask you to respond. It's not just Texas, is it, Mr. Attorney General? We're seeing this in Missouri just this week. You're seeing activity in Indiana, conversations that are happening in Florida. There's different conditions and criteria in Ohio and Utah. Maybe you can give us a lay of the land more broadly.

[Eric Holder]

Yeah, I mean, you hit just about all the states where this is still being considered. You know, Texas has already done it, Missouri has already done it. But those other states are certainly considering it. And, you know, Ohio has got to redraw their maps because of a constitutional provision there. But the question is, what are Ohio Republicans going to do? There is within the Ohio Constitution a prohibition against partisan gerrymandering. So we'll see what they do in Ohio, what are they going to do in Kansas, what are they going to do in Florida? There's a whole range of other states where they've made the determination that they're going to really kind of cheat. And that's what it is. You can talk about a whole bunch of different things. It's cheating. They're going to cheat to try to hold on to the majority that they have in the House of Representatives. And it really comes on the basis of fear. They're afraid of the people who they say they want to represent. They're afraid of the legislative agenda that they have tried to put in place. They're afraid of the administrative things that they have done. They're afraid to be held accountable for, you know, taking a whole bunch of good people and a whole variety of government agencies around the country and simply told them, you know, get out of here, you're fired. They're afraid of trying to defend that which Elon Musk and his doge Bros did. It's all a political fear that is driving what it is that they are that they're doing. And it's fundamentally un American. And it's unpatriotic. You know it's cheating. But it also goes against that which we do and which makes, I think, this nation exceptional. We trust the people to make determinations about policy and the direction of the nation, and they want to cut the people out of the process.

[Robert Smigel]

Another podcast from some SNL late night comedy guy not quite on Humor Me with Robert Smigel and Friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier this week. My guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer Streeter Sidel help an acapella band with their between songs banter.

[Tab Ramos]

Where does your group perform?

[Eric Holder]

We do some retirement homes.

[Robert Smigel]

Those people are starving for banter. Listen to Humor Me with Robert Smigel and friends on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.

[iHeart Podcast Host]

Your twenties can be so exciting, but they can also be really overwhelming, confusing, and honestly, just kind of lonely. May is Mental Health Awareness Month and the psychology of your twenties is breaking down the science behind the biggest roadblocks we face.

[Energy Trust of Oregon Representative]

I was six years into my career, the 80 hour weeks and just the first one in, the last one out and I ended up burning out. There was a large chunk of my twenties that I like was just so wanting to like be out of that phase out of my skin and I just like really regret not living in the present more.

[iHeart Podcast Host]

You don't need to have everything figured out right now. You just need to understand yourself a little bit better. Listen to the psychology of your 20s on the iHeartRadio. Appreciate Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Diana Maria Riva]

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[Diana Maria Riva]

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[Tom Bogert]

American Soccer is about to explode.

[Tab Ramos]

The World cup is coming.

[Eric Holder]

Ramos sending on Ernie Stewart the Chip Score.

[Tab Ramos]

I'm Tab Ramos.

[Tom Bogert]

I'm Tom Bokeh. On our podcast Inside American Soccer, you'll get the real storylines, the biggest decisions and the truth about the U.S. national team.

[Tab Ramos]

It wouldn't be a huge surprise if our team ends up in the quarterfinals or potentially a great run into the semifinals.

[Tom Bogert]

Listen to Inside American Soccer with Tom Bogert and Tab ramos on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast.

[iHeart Podcast Host]

This is an iHeart podcast. Guaranteed Human.