1. A Nativity to Die For — Surprise!

Summary

Podcast Summary: "This is History: A Dynasty to Die For"

Host: Dan Jones (Sony Music Entertainment)

Episode 1: "A Nativity to Die For — Surprise!"

Release Date: December 9, 2025

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Overview

In the first episode of this special miniseries, historian Dan Jones gives the classic Nativity story his signature "This Is History" treatment. He re-examines the biblical narrative of Mary, Joseph, and the birth of Jesus, sticking to the gospel accounts while interrogating how and why these stories have become what they are. Jones introduces listeners to the contrasting gospel versions, unpacks their historical and theological motives, and teases deeper dives with expert interviews in future episodes. The result is an irreverent, insightful, and often darkly humorous exploration of what may be the most famous birth story in human history.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Setting the Scene: Nazareth, Galilee, and Mary's Life

• The story opens in Nazareth, a small, inconspicuous town in Galilee under Roman rule. Dan Jones recounts the daily life and expectations for a young girl like Mary (Mariam) — a peasant, likely in her teens, recently engaged to Joseph the carpenter.
• Tone: Vivid, grounded, with Jones’s characteristic wry humor.
• Notable quote:

  “Her life as a Galilean tradwife will begin.” (03:47)

2. The Annunciation: Gabriel’s Visit to Mary (Luke’s Gospel)

• Jones retells the dramatic arrival of the angel Gabriel, who announces Mary’s miraculous pregnancy with a “download of incredibly wild information and breaking news” (05:42), emphasizing Mary's shock, fear, and eventual humble acceptance.
• He highlights how, despite Mary’s protests of virginity, Gabriel responds with an enigmatic explanation and Mary consents:

  “‘Behold, I am the servant of the Lord. Let it be to me according to your word.’ And with that, the whole world changes forever.” (06:43)

• Analysis: Jones points out how risky and potentially fatal this announcement was for Mary, given the cultural context.
• Memorable moment:

  “Being cucked by God Almighty is still being cucked.” (13:43)

3. The Elusiveness of the Nativity Story in Early Sources

• Jones explores how little the earliest Christian texts say about Jesus’s birth. Paul and Mark ignore it almost entirely; only Matthew and Luke provide detailed birth narratives, and these differ significantly.
• Insight:

  “The story of Jesus’ birth is really one of the last things to be locked down in the canonical story of his life.” (09:50)

• He notes that the Annunciation only appears in Luke, from Mary’s perspective, heightening her vulnerability and trust.

4. Luke's Portrayal: The Peasant Mother and Social Gospel

• The host discusses how Luke crafts Mary’s story to reinforce themes of humility, faith, and the uplifting of society’s outcasts.

  “Luke’s Jesus is going to be a friend of the poor, the outcast, the downtrodden… a social services saviour, if you like.” (15:41)

5. Matthew’s Version: Joseph, Bloodlines, and Righteousness

• Transitioning to Matthew’s gospel, Jones presents Joseph as a man of royal descent, tracing his lineage back to King David, and as a “righteous man” — a rule follower by nature, reluctant to cause Mary public disgrace.
• The account of Joseph’s intention to quietly divorce Mary, his angelic visitation, and his ultimate acceptance is contrasted with Luke’s focus on Mary.

  “Guys are guys, and sometimes they only listen to mansplaining.” (23:35)

• Jones explains the significance of the angel’s message about Jesus as a fulfillment of prophecy and the importance of Joseph’s “yes” to the entire nativity narrative.

  “If Joseph goes through with his divorce, the story of the Nativity never plays out. … Joseph's yes is what gets the story of the Nativity off the ground.” (24:36)

6. The Census and Bethlehem: Historical Headaches

• As Mary’s pregnancy advances, the couple must travel from Nazareth to Bethlehem for a Roman census, per Luke’s narrative.
• Jones scrutinizes the historical plausibility of this census, exposing chronological and factual inconsistencies while emphasizing the narrative motivations — namely, connecting Jesus with King David’s city to fulfill prophecy and pitting humble origins against Roman grandeur.

  “Luke … puts two and two together and gets 46 and a half. But you know what? It’s a great story and without it there’d be no genre of Christmas cards featuring Joseph leading his third trimester heavy wife on the back of a camel.” (29:36)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Mary’s acceptance:

  “‘I am a servant of the Lord.’ … If this is God’s will, then her choice is to accept that she has no choice. When you think about it, that is a profound leap of faith.” (14:58)

• On Joseph’s dilemma:

  “He’s calling his divorce lawyers. … Joseph is not only born of respectable stock, he’s also a righteous man. … He’s the sort of guy who’d snitch on you for having people at your COVID lockdown barbecue.” (21:03)

• On literary/historical criticism of the census:

  “Augustus is power hungry, but he’s not a fool. This feels like bureaucracy gone mad, and maybe it is. But there’s also a possibility that this bit of the traditional nativity story has been massaged in the telling.” (28:09)

• Dan’s childhood nativity memory:

  “I was given the role of the ass … and I can still remember my solo when I stood up and sang muffled from behind the mask, ‘I’m the ass. That’s what they say. But I saw Jesus born today.’” (07:39)

• On the artistic neglect of Joseph’s dream:

  “Pretty much anyone who was anyone had a go at Gabriel giving Mary the big news … Joseph’s dream gets a lot less notice.” (24:35)

• Sharpest humor:

  “Being cucked by God Almighty is still being cucked.” (13:40)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• Introduction & Scope of Miniseries – [00:04] to [01:07]
• Nazareth, Mary’s Backstory – [02:53] to [04:00]
• The Annunciation (Luke) – [04:12] to [07:02]
• Host’s Childhood Nativity Memory – [07:37] to [08:14]
• Historical Overview of Nativity Sources – [09:49] to [12:35]
• Luke’s Theological Messaging – [13:11] to [15:41]
• Matthew’s Version, Joseph’s Dilemma – [19:10] to [24:35]
• The Census and Journey to Bethlehem – [27:08] to [30:04]
• Analysis of Luke vs. Matthew’s Motives – [28:09] to [31:34]
• Cliffhanger Outro – [31:34] to [31:54]
• Preview of Bonus Content with Prof. Helen Bond – [32:46] to [33:19]

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Style & Tone

Jones combines accessible, contemporary language with incisive historical commentary and biting wit. He spotlights the dangerous stakes for Mary, the varied gospel agendas, and the historical messiness of the Christmas story, all while lacing the script with self-deprecating humor and modern asides (e.g., “COVID lockdown barbecue,” “cucked by God Almighty,” “four seasons,” and Christmas cards).

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Summary

Episode 1 of "A Nativity to Die For" is a smart, irreverent, and revealing re-telling of the Christmas origin story. Dan Jones unpacks the differences between Luke and Matthew's gospels, providing historical and social context while sardonically challenging the sanitized version of the Nativity. By illuminating the peril faced by Mary, the complex agenda of gospel writers, and the legend-making behind the “journey to Bethlehem,” Jones revitalizes a familiar story with sharp humor and scholarly insight, setting listeners up for a deep-dive into the real history — and myth-making — behind Christmas.

Next episode teaser:
Will Mary and Joseph find a place to stay? Will God make it onto the birth certificate? Tune in next time for even more Nativity revelations.

Transcript

[A]

Hello, friends. I'm about to bring you an immaculate story. Sure, Henry V was pretty fun, but I don't think even his piety can match that of a peasant girl called Mary. Yes, it's time for the Nativity. Together we'll learn and ask questions about why the Nativity story, as we've come to know it, is the way it is. And if you want more on that, I'm very excited to announce that Edinburgh University's Professor Helen Bond, an incredible scholar of early Christianity, is joining me on the bonus episodes for this miniseries. Now, in this week's episode, Helen and I are getting to know the Nativity's authors, Matthew, Luke, and some guy called James whose gospel didn't make the cut. You can listen to that episode ad free by joining our holy [e-mail] thisishistory. In the meantime, let's go to Galilee after this short break.

[B]

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[C]

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[B]

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[A]

It's a quiet day in the town of Nazareth in Galilee, a humdrum sort of place on the eastern fringe of the Roman Empire. As usual, nothing much is doing. The few hundred people who live here are going about their business, tending animals and repairing buildings, fetching water and passing the time. One of those people is a girl named Mariam, or as we might call her, Mary. She, like everyone else, is just having a day. She's probably a teenager, maybe as young as 14, but her life is already mapped out in front of her. She's recently been engaged to a fellow from the neighborhood, a guy named Joseph. Joseph is a carpenter, a respectable job. He's from a decent family. Sooner or later they'll be married. And then Mary's childhood will definitely be over. Her life as a Galilean tradwife will begin.

Mary may well be thinking about all of this as she bustles about her home doing the day's chores. But then something in the air changes.

Suddenly there's a being standing before her. A man. No, not exact.

In fact, Mary has never seen anything like this before. It pulses with an energy which seems to fill the whole house.

Then it speaks.

Greetings, you who are highly favored. The Lord is with you.

Now. It's nice to know that energy pulsating, otherworldly, non human beings have good manners. But Mary is still absolutely terrified. The being, it must be an angel, sees she's scared and tells her not to worry. Which is obviously easy for an angel to say. But just as Mary is trying to get her face in place, the angel drops a bombshell. Or rather, a whole series of them.

You will conceive and give birth to a son, and you are to call him Jesus. It says. He will be great and will be called the Son of the Most High. The Lord God will give him the throne of his father David, and he will reign over Jacob's descendants forever. Oh, yeah, and one more thing. His kingdom will never end.

Which, to be fair, is an absolute download of incredibly wild information and breaking news. Upstage moves, and it does raise one or two little questions.

How will this be? Asks Mary, keeping a pretty tight lid on things, all things considered, since I am a virgin. But like lo, the angel has an answer for that too. The Holy Spirit will come on you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you, says the angel. So the Holy One to be born will be called the Son of Go.

Simples.

Or is it? Mary may just be a peasant girl, not a Theologian. But even she knows that getting pregnant outside of marriage is going to take some explaining. Yet something inside tells her not to argue.

Behold, she says, I am the servant of the Lord. Let it be to me according to your word. And with that, the whole world changes forever.

I'm dan jones and from sony music entertainment. This is history.

A nativity to die for.

Episode 1 surprise.

One of my earliest memories of performing in public, maybe the earliest in fact, is taking part in my school nativity play. I'm guessing I'd have been four or five years old and in an incredibly far sighted bit of casting, I was given the role of the ass. Now, I enjoyed being the ass. My mum made me a nice horrible phrase, ass mask out of cardboard. And I can still remember my solo when I stood up and sang muffled from behind the mask. I'm the ass. That's what they say. But I saw Jesus born today.

Ever since then, I've been fond of a good nativity play. That's why I'm bringing you this one. Over the next three episodes I'm going to retell the biblical tale of Mary, Joseph and the whole gospel featuring nativity crew sticking to the stories told in the Gospels. But as we go along I want to also ask questions about why the Gospels say what they say. Why sometimes they agree and sometimes they disagree. Then in the bonus episodes of this nativity miniseries, I'm going to be chatting to Edinburgh University's Professor Helen Bond to get stuck into the nitty gritty of all the history and theology recover. Professor Bond specializes in early Christianity and you might also know her from her own podcast, Biblical Time Machine. Thank heavens she's kindly agreed to be our resident nativity expert. So to get going, let's dig into the story we just heard. The event known as the Annunciation, when the Virgin Mary gets jump scared by the angel Gabriel and and told she's not going to be any regular mum, but the mother of God. In retrospect, it's easy to see this as a heartwarming tale, quite literally a miracle. But if we really turn it over, it's a story that's a lot darker than we might imagine.

The first thing we need to say, and this will hang over the whole of this nativity miniseries, is is that the story of Jesus birth is really one of the last things to be locked down in the canonical story of his life. Most scholars would agree that there was a historical guy called Jesus, a Jewish man who lived in the Roman province of Judea during the reigns of the emperors Augustus and Tiberius, who gained a following in the city and who was crucified in Jerusalem on the authority of Judea's governor Pontius Pilate in or around 33 AD. For Christians, Jesus death and subsequent resurrection is the absolute bedrock of faith. But you don't have to be a Christian to acknowledge that much of the story is essentially historical. The Apostle Paul's letters, written between about 48 and 64 AD refer to Jesus. So do the works of famous Roman historians like Tacitus and Pliny the younger, working about 50 years later. Then there are the Gospels marx written around 70 AD, Matthew's and Luke's in the 80s or 90s, and finally John's between 90 and 100. All of these testify at length to events that mostly take place in Jesus adult years. And all the evangelists, as they're known, had some firsthand link to Jesus. Matthew and John were actually apostles. Mark was an associate of St. Peter and Luke of St. Paul. So all these writers were either eyewitnesses to Christ's ministry in Jerusalem or one step removed. But here's the weird thing. The majority of them are silent about the circumstances of Jesus birth. As in zip lipped. Don't ask me pal, Completely stumm. The apostle Paul simply writes that Jesus was born of a woman. Okay, who wasn't? Mark kicks off with Jesus baptism as an adult in the River Jordan, carried out by his cousin John the Baptist.

John offers up the cryptic statement that in the beginning was the Word and that the Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. The only accounts of Jesus's birth that survive are in the Gospels of Luke and Matthew. And they, as we're going to see, are substantially different tales told with very different purposes in mind.

So what of the Annunciation, a story told from Mary's perspective in which the angel Gabriel gets in her ear and tells her she's carrying the Son of God? Well, that comes from Luke. In Luke's account, as we've heard, Gabriel tells Mary she's pregnant and she goes through a whole range of emotions in quick succession. First she's frightened, and rightly so, a bit confused. She's just some kid, and although evidently a pious one, it's a lot to be told. God's chosen her.

After that, she's very confused. Gabriel has just hit her with something that defies the most elemental calculus of human reproduction, which is, as Jarvis Cocker will sing several or millennia later, that goes in there, then that goes in there, then that goes in there, then that goes in there. Ooh and then it's over.

Well, as far as Mary knows, nothing's gone in anywhere. And yet she's pregnant, which is going to be a colossal king sized ribbed for absolutely no one's pleasure. Pack of problems. In Mary's culture, sex before marriage is a major no, no. If this angel is telling the truth, she's in big trouble. Mary knows she's a virgin, but who else is going to believe that? Let alone the testimony of any girl or woman at this time, this story has the power, quite literally, to kill her. Mary's engaged to the town carpenter. If she goes to him with this angel business, he's not exactly going to be overjoyed. Being cucked by God Almighty is still being cucked. If Joseph wants to, he'll be able to accuse her of adultery. And if she's prosecuted and found guilty, the law at this time allows her to be stoned to death.

Life or death clearly is going through Mary's head. And it seems she senses the opportunity to bargain with the angel because she answers as though she's been given a choice.

Yet when she does answer, it's astonishing. Instead of expressing her reservations, her surprise, or asking if slaggy Shazza across the street at number 49 might be a more plausible choice for this virgin birth caper, Mary humbly says, I am a servant of the Lord.

What will become of her is what will become of her. If this is God's will, then her choice is to accept that she has no choice. When you think about it, that is a profound leap of faith. But it's also one that's in keeping with the version of Jesus that Luke strives to give us all the way through his Gospel.

Luke's Jesus is going to be a friend of the poor, the outcast, the downtrodden. He's a messiah from the streets, a social services saviour, if you like. The greatest miracle he ever performs is not walking on water or turning water into wine, but managing through his charity and example, eventually to flip the Roman Empire on its theological head. So when we think about the Annunciation, hey girl, you're God's baby mama, go tell Joseph. We have to remember that Luke is very deliberately setting up the theme he wants to explore in the rest of his story. The peasant girl Mary submits to God's will, and one day her son, the barefoot warrior for mankind's downtrodden masses, will do the same thing. Anyway, with all that being said, let's get back to Mary. As she digests the news, she's just been given. She has to go and tell Joseph, but how is he going to feel about it? At this point, her fiance the carpenter could wreck this entire situation by refusing to believe her story. In fact, all the odds are on that being what happens. To find out, we're going to head over to the Gospel of Matthew. We'd better hope that when we get there, we find Joseph in a good and credulous mood.

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Carpentry is a skilled trade and done well, it's an art form too. So as Joseph of Nazareth soars and planes and chisels away in his workshop, he has every right to regard himself with a bit of pride. Any old fool can pick up a bit of timber and a tool bag, but he's spent years honing his talent as he smooths down his latest project. Joseph dreams of bigger ambitions. Remember, he's not just a car carpenter. He's got royal blood in his veins. He can trace his lineage all the way back to the days of the patriarchs Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. His dynastic line runs through the famous King David, shepherd, harpist, killer of the giant Goliath, father of Solomon, widely acknowledged royal goat. So yeah, he, Joseph may be just a carpenter carpenter, but not any old carpenter. And when he marries his fiance, a young girl called Mary, their children are going to have royal blood in their veins too.

As he looks up from his workbench, his resplendent bride to be, Mary approaches his workshop. He stops.

As she gets closer, he sees she has quite a. Quite a flush in her cheeks. Something doesn't look quite right. And indeed something is very much not right. When Mary explains to Joseph what's up, it's fair to say he doesn't jump with joy, offer to arrange the baby shower and start texting his mates to invite them to a gender reveal party. In fact, he's calling his divorce lawyers. Well, that's how Matthew tells the story in his gospel.

Now when we read the New Testament, it's pretty clear that in telling his version of Jesus's story, Matthew has very different priorities from Luke. For him, Jesus isn't a social worker, he's more of a champagne socialist. Yes, he's out there fighting the good fight, but he's doing it from a special position. Jesus isn't some random oik. He's the fulfillment of ancient Jewish prophecies of a new messiah who's going to pick up where Moses left off back in the day. That's why Matthew's gospel starts with a long recitation of Jesus royal bloodline going back through his dad. And when Matthew narrates his nativity, he tries to emphasize Joseph's royal heritage wherever he can bear that in mind. Then as Joseph tries to get his head around the news that his wife to be is magically up the duff, he's not exactly going to be chill with it. In fact, quite the opposite. According to Matthew, Joseph is not only born of respectable stock, he's also a righteous man. By that, what Matthew means is not that he's innately good so much as he's a stickler for rules. He's the sort of guy who'd snitch on you for having people at your COVID lockdown barbecue. Yet at the same time, Joseph does have a heart. He doesn't want to see Mary stoned to death, and nor does he want to expose her to public disgrace. So what he decides is to divorce her quietly. They'll break off the engagement and say no more about it. Call it conscious uncoupling. Good for Joseph. But in the meantime, Mary's with child, and it turns out gestating the Messiah is a bit less awesome than you might imagine. So what happens next? Well, just as Mary had a visit from an angel, so one of Gabriel's pals comes to see Joseph while he's sleeping. The angel comes to him and says, joseph, son of David, do not be afraid to take Mary home as your wife, because what is conceived in her is from the Holy Spirit. She'll give birth to a son and you are to give him the name Jesus, because he will save his people from their sins.

Jesus is a form of the Hebrew name Yeshua or Joshua, meaning God is salvation.

Now, in a sense, this is just an angel repeating what Mary has already told Joseph. So you could write this down to guys are guys, and sometimes they only listen to mansplaining. But actually, what changes Joseph's mind is the realization that Mary's pregnancy is the fulfillment of a prediction made by the old school prophet Isaiah about 700 years earlier. Isaiah said the saviour of mankind would spring from a virgin birthday. And remembering that turns out to be good enough for Joseph, Matthew continues the story. When Joseph woke up, he did what the angel of the Lord had commanded him and took Mary home as his wife. His only condition is he's not going to consummate the marriage until after the miraculous birth. We don't want any crossed swords.

It's easy to forget this bit of the story. Joseph got to see an angel too. In the history of religious art and indeed nativity plays, it's nowhere near as famous as Mary's. Pretty much anyone who was anyone had a go at Gabriel giving Mary the big news. Van Eyck, Botticelli, Da Vinci, Titian, Caravaggio. Apart from a not especially famous Rembrandt, Joseph's dream gets a lot less notice. But here's the thing. It takes two to tango. If Joseph goes through with his divorce, the story of the Nativity never plays out. There's just a teenage mum in a dusty village swearing blind that she got knocked up by an angel. Joseph's? Yes. And his cancelling of the divorce papers is what gets the story of the Nativity off the ground. Now there are two people involved, committed, convinced. What's more, those two people have to go on a journey because no sooner have our happy couple agreed to raising the Son of God, than a note comes through their front door with some rather inconvenient news.

The Romans are having a census and no, you very much. I can't vote by text. It's time to get out of Nazareth and travel to Bethlehem to be counted.

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Joseph and Mary have been walking for days. It's hot. Dust swirls around at night, wild animals prowl the countryside. By day, the roads are plagued by bandits. It's 90 miles as the crow flies from Nazareth to Bethlehem, longer if you take the road that avoids the most difficult terrain. And even that easy road is rocky, parched and involves steep climbs as it winds through the Judean hills. It's tough going for anyone, let alone a heavily pregnant woman. But they've got to do it. This is the Roman Empire, and the Roman Emperor Augustus has decreed that he wants people counted in their hometowns. Since Joseph is originally from the royal city of Bethlehem, home of his ancestor, King David, that's where he's taking Mary to do their civic duty.

But honestly, as they're traveling, this must feel kind of unbelievable. What kind of sadistic madman, oblivious to the realities of bureaucracy, would demand that everyone in the gigantic Roman Empire travels for days to be counted in their place of origin rather than where they currently live? Augustus is power hungry, but he's not a fool. This feels like bureaucracy gone mad, and maybe it is. But there's also a possibility that this bit of the traditional nativity story has been massaged in the telling, it's Luke who gives us the story of the census. And remember, he's the gospel writer most concerned with juxtaposing the humble origins of Jesus with the might of the Roman Empire. He in those days, Caesar Augustus issued a decree that a census should be taken of the entire Roman world. This was the first census that took place while Quirinius was governor of Syria and everyone went to their own town to register. So Joseph also went up from the town of Nazareth in Galilee to Judea, to Bethlehem, the town of James David, because he belonged to the house and line of David, which sounds good until we dig into the details. Quirinius was governor of Syria and held a census in 6 AD, but Mary, as we'll see, was pregnant during the reign of Herod the Great, Rome's client king of Judea. Herod died in 4 BC, so this census doesn't exactly fit. What's more, there's no evidence that Rome ever held a census that was either empire wide or that required everyone to go on a ridiculous journey to some place they didn't live. Which means that either Luke, writing some 80 years after the events, is wrong about a date or wrong about a detail, or has sort of mashed up the notion of a Roman census with some other stuff to churn out the story he wants. It clearly matters for him to get Mary and Joseph from Nazareth, which is nowheresville, to Bethlehem, which has the connection with King David. Luke also has a strong narrative motive for wanting to dunk on the Romans, since his soup kitchen Jesus is the antithesis of imperial Roman ness, so he puts two and two together and gets 46 and a half. But you know what? It's a great story and without it, there'd be no genre of Christmas cards featuring Joseph leading his third trimester heavy wife on the back of a camel through the mountains while a bright star shines overhead. Christmas just wouldn't be the same. So let's agree that one way or another, and for reasons, Mary and Joseph do go to Bethlehem. When they get there, Mary is fit to pop that baby out. So it seems like an opportune moment to ask Joseph whether he went for the best western Bethlehem or he splashed out and booked them into the four seasons. And that's when Joseph tells her, you know what? I thought we'd just wait and find somewhere to crash when we got here.

Has there ever been a more up and down first year of a marriage? Will these two find somewhere to crash that also has hot towels and a birthing pool when this baby finally arrives, how are they going to list God on the birth certificate.

To find out just how much more there is to the real story of the first Christmas? Come back next time on this IS History. A Nativity to die for.

Well, talk about a complicated birth. I'm sure you have many questions about how the Nativity authors framed this virgin birth, which our resident Nativity expert, Professor Helen Bond will answer on this week's bonus episode. And to my lovely royal favorites, given my fantastic singing this episode, Helen would love to know what's your favorite Christmas carol? Look out for producer Owl's post on patreon.com forward/thisishistory to join the discussion.

[D]

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