2. A Nativity to Die For — Away in a manger

Summary

Podcast Summary: "This is History: A Dynasty to Die For"

Episode 2: A Nativity to Die For — Away in a Manger

Host: Dan Jones, Sony Music Entertainment
Date: December 16, 2025

---

Overview of the Episode

In this installment of the miniseries "A Nativity to Die For," Dan Jones brings his signature irreverent historical style to the Christmas story. Moving beyond common myth and tradition, Dan dissects the canonical Gospels' version of the Nativity, focusing mainly on the account of Luke. He interrogates the origins of familiar images—no room at the inn, the stable, the shepherds, and angels—and reflects on why these motifs endure, even when many are barely present in the Gospels or invented centuries later. The episode examines how the Nativity is an adaptive myth, designed to serve the needs of every era, and how the humble setting underscores a central message of Christianity.

---

Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. The Christmas Commute: Mary and Joseph Arrive in Bethlehem

[02:41]

• Dan sets the scene: Joseph and a heavily pregnant Mary travel 100 miles to Bethlehem for a Roman census, only to find the town overcrowded and nowhere to stay.
• Joseph’s desperation, Mary’s labor, and their ultimate shelter—a "stall with a manger for feeding animals."
• Dan’s wit shines as he quips, “You might have thought the Almighty would have arranged for a suite at the Bethlehem Best Western. Apparently God works in mysterious ways.”

2. On Christmas Origins and Adaptability

[04:45]

• Dan tackles the perennial cynic’s claim that Christmas is “made up,” likening it to common holiday misconceptions (e.g., Santa invented by Coca Cola).
• Quote: “Christmas is indeed a rolling confection of ideas bolted together to create something incredibly weird. ... It's been the absolute essence of the Nativity story ever since the get go.”
  — Dan Jones [05:57]
• Emphasizes the lack of hard historical evidence for many Nativity details, even the census’s timing.
• The classic tableau (Mary, Joseph, animals, and Jesus in a stable) is an artistic invention from the 4th century and as drama, only from the 13th-century St. Francis of Assisi.

3. What the Gospels (Actually) Say

[09:13]

• Dan distinguishes between Luke’s and Matthew’s versions:
  • Luke: Social worker Saviour; emphasizes poverty and humility.
  • Matthew: Messiah descended from David; emphasizes Kingship.
• Textual deep-dive: The famous “no room at the inn” phrase originated in the 1611 King James Bible, but more accurate translations from the Greek (“kataluma”) suggest “guest room” in a private house, not an inn.
  • “The guest room is definitely not as evocative as the inn, but it's now reckoned to be a better translation of the Greek term katalima...”
    — Dan Jones [12:10]
• Luke’s narrative is terse; mentions manger, no stable, and “swaddling cloths”—likely symbolic, since they foreshadow Christ’s burial.

4. Enter the Shepherds (and the Angels)

[15:45]

• Scene shifts to shepherds guarding flocks at night. Local dangers—wolves, bears, and even lions—make shepherding no joke.
  • “...the hills of Judea are roamed by predators who like nothing better than a cheeky chomp on a lamb donna... lions live in the caves and they have a particularly bad reputation in this region.”
• Suddenly, an angel appears with a radiant light, terrifying them initially. The angel delivers a message of “great joy for all the people”—the birth of the Messiah in the city of David.
• The famous angelic host arrives—“Glory to God in the highest heaven, and on earth, peace..."
• The shepherds, moved by the spectacle, rush to find the child.
• Insight: The humble shepherds as first witnesses underscore Luke's theme—greatness is revealed to and through the lowly, foreshadowing the nature of Jesus’s ministry and later apostles’ missionary work.

5. The Nativity Scene and its Symbolism

[21:20]

• Mary, exhausted, lays Jesus in the manger.
  • “She’s got him wrapped up nice and cozy in his swaddling cloths. As he finally settles down to sleep, she lays him gently in the manger. To be fair, it isn't much to look at.”
    — Dan Jones [21:24]
• Shepherds arrive, confirm the angels’ message, and spread the news—a symbolic proto-evangelism.
  • “The very first people outside the holy family to clap eyes on Jesus are humble shepherds. On one level ... they're there to remind us that Jesus’ ancestor, King David, also started life as a poor shepherd in Bethlehem.”
    — Dan Jones [22:21]
• Mary “treasures their words and ponders them in her heart,” while the shepherds leave, glorifying God.

6. What’s Missing and What’s Next

[25:50]

• Recap: Virgin pregnancy, no room at the “inn,” manger, shepherds, angels—but highlights those missing from the classic crèche: the Wise Men, Herod, and the threat he poses.
• Teased for next episode: The arrival of the Magi, Herod’s ominous interest, and the expansion of the Nativity story’s impact.

---

Notable Quotes and Moments

• On the origins of Christmas and the Nativity myth:
  • “The sine qua non of the Season of Goodwill is that the whole thing is a non-literal myth that's adaptable to circumstance.” — Dan Jones [06:28]
• On translation and tradition:
  • “It’s the KJB that gives us no room at the inn. Now, such a famous turn of phrase that it's become idiomatic English…but if you look at more modern English translations, the phrase no room at the inn is very often rendered differently.” — Dan Jones [11:23]
• On the classic Nativity tableau:
  • “...the classic Nativity tableau of Mary and Joseph standing in the stable, surrounded by ox, ass, camel, and all the rest of them, while the baby Jesus sleeps peacefully in a bed of straw—that only appears in art from the 4th century AD and was only invented as drama by the noted 13th-century zoophile St. Francis of Assisi.” — Dan Jones [06:46]
• On why shepherds are the first to witness the Nativity:
  • “It's standing everything these shepherds know about the way the world works on its head. Kings aren't supposed to be born into poverty and announced to Animal World workers.” — Dan Jones [18:22]
• On the symbolic role of the shepherds:
  • “...they’re there to preempt the apostles, disciples and evangelists who ... embody the virtues of poverty and humility and go out and tell the world the good news.” — Dan Jones [22:53]

---

Timestamps for Important Segments

• [02:41] Arrival in Bethlehem; the “no room at the inn” dilemma.
• [04:45] - [06:46] The adaptable, invented nature of Christmas traditions.
• [09:13] - [12:10] Gospel accounts and the mistranslation of “inn.”
• [15:45] - [18:22] The shepherds, their perilous existence, and their angelic encounter.
• [21:20] - [22:53] Baby Jesus in the manger; shepherds as proto-evangelists.
• [25:50] What’s missing from the scene, teaser for the appearance of the Magi and Herod.

---

Conclusion

Dan Jones delivers a lively, insightful retelling of the Nativity with sharp humor, deep historical awareness, and a knack for questioning received wisdom. By pulling apart the Gospel texts, their interpretations, and layering historical context, he shows how even the most beloved holiday story is a product of mythmaking, reassembly, and enduring symbolic power. Expect the next episode to delve into the Magi, Herod, and the wider ramifications of the Nativity as shaped by history and legend.

---

For further analysis—including mythic animals, the census, and more—Dan refers listeners to the bonus episode with Professor Helen Bond, available to subscribers.

Transcript

[A]

My dear flock, traffic during Christmas time is pretty bad in any year, but let me tell you, those Roman roads were bumper to bumper when Christmas was well invented. Now you're about to follow Mary and Joseph as they make their first Christmas commute. But before you do, I'd like to remind you that you can treat yourself to this week's bonus episode. This week, Helen Bond and I are delving into the reasons why the Nativity's myths and symbols have have stuck around for centuries despite not really happening at all. Like the donkey, the shepherds, and that Roman census. Consider these very potent plot devices. To listen to that bonus episode ad free Join this is History's holy [e-mail] thisishistory in the meantime, Bethlehem beckons after this short break.

[B]

Hi everyone, it's JVN from Getting Better with Jonathan Van Ness. This season we've been talking a lot about hope. Not the fluffy kind, but the grounded, gritty. We're actually doing something kind. One of the places I term for that is Americans United for Separation of Church and State. They're this quiet and mighty force that's been working to keep religion and government separate so all of us can live as ourselves and believe as we choose as long as we don't harm others. Church, state separation touches so many of the things we care about LGBTQI plus rights, marriage equality, reproductive freedom and abortion access. Americans United is out here being one of the vital voices of reason, fighting in the courts and in Congress and pushing back against Christian nationalist efforts to force everyone to live by one narrow set of beliefs. You can learn so much more about what AU does and how to support their work at AU.org gettingbetter your support, no matter the amount, helps to safeguard our freedoms. Americans United is fighting for freedom without favor and equality without exception. You can start a chapter in your hometown today. You can volunteer money or time. Get involved in your community. Learn [e-mail] better think your lashes have hit their limit.

[C]

Discover limitless length and full volume with Maybelline Sky High Mascara. The Flex Tower Brush bends to volumize and extend every single lash from root to tip and the lightweight bamboo infused formula makes lashes feel weightless. Now in eight bold shades so you can take your lashes to new heights every day. Visit maybelline.com to shop Sky High Mascara now.

[A]

Joseph the carpenter from Nazareth has a cold sweat running down the back of his neck. He knew the town would be busy. The Roman census ordered by the Emperor Augustus has caused chaos. Even so, this is crazy. He and his betrothed Mary arrived in Bethlehem a few hours ago. They've traveled nearly 100 miles to get here, mostly on foot through difficult terrain. With Mary heavily pregnant. They were hoping, well, expecting that when they got here there'd be somewhere to rest, clean up and prepare for the arrival of the baby. Which seems likely any time now, given that about nine months ago Mary was visited by an archangel and told that the child she's carrying is, direct quote, the Son of God. You might have thought the Almighty would have arranged for a suite at the Bethlehem Best Western. Apparently God works in mysterious ways. So here they are amid the hubbub of a town full of people who don't normally live there, and every place they ask is fully booked. Joseph approaches another guest house and waits for the owner to come down. But he knows what the answer is going to be and when the door opens, it's written all over the fella's face. Been full up all week, pal. Booked up next week too, and the one after that. The guest house owner is itching to shut the door in Joseph's face, but he moves closer, pleading, wondering if the my virgin wife got knocked up by like God and I was going to divorce her, but then an angel told me not to. Will get him any sympathy or just vibe psycho. Maybe he's better off leaning on his local connections. After all, this is his hometown. Before Joseph can decide exactly what his next slash last throw of the dice is going to be, Mary lets out a yell. He spins round. She has her hands on her knees, her face screwed up in pain. Jfc like literally the baby is coming. The guest house door clicks shut in desperation. Joseph looks around. There's nothing anywhere except an old stall with a manger for feeding animals. He puts his hands to his head. There's only one thing for it. It looks like the saviour of all mankind is going to be born in a stable. I'm Dan Jones and from Sony Music Entertainment. This is history. A nativity to die for. Episode two away in a manger. One of the horiest, scroogiest old complaints about Christmas is that the whole thing is basically made up. We've all got a mate who thinks this is a clever riff. You know that Santa Claus? Yeah, he was actually invented to sell people Coca Cola or Christmas Tree that was made up by Queen Victoria's husband who also invented the knob piercing. You might even have a super elite 10th dan, black belt clever clogspal who refuses to call Christmas Christmas at all, but refers to it as Saturnalia because that's what the Romans called it. This is likely also the same annoying friend who insists on referring to Halloween as Samhain. Well, guess what Rockstar? This premise is basically true. Christmas is indeed a rolling confection of ideas bolted together to create something incredibly weird. But the thing is, and here's the big historical point I want us to consider throughout this miniseries, the thing is that this is the most basic B point you can possibly make about Christmas. Noticing Christmas is a bran tub of different ideas and traditions isn't like seeing behind the curtain and revealing the modern day corruption of the original Christian message. It's been the absolute essence of the Nativity story ever since the get go. The sine qua non of the Season of Goodwill is that the whole thing is a non literal myth that's adaptable to circumstance. Compared to the Crucifixion, there is vanishingly little historical evidence for any of it happening. As we heard last time, even the alleged dates of the Roman census don't fit with the plausible timing of Christ's birth. The two scriptural accounts of the Nativity by the Gospel writers, Luke and Matthew, differ sharply from one another. They're designed to emphasize two scarcely compatible takes about who the real adult Jesus was and what he stood for, and the classic Nativity tableau of Mary and Joseph standing in the stable surrounded by ox, ass, camel and all the rest of them while the baby Jesus sleeps peacefully in a bed of straw. That only appears in art from the 4th century AD and was only invented as drama by the noted 13th century zoophile St. Francis of Assisi. Oh, and that donkey carrying the pregnant Mary into town. It's nowhere to be found in any gospel. It appears in another gospel that didn't make the final cut around the 2nd century AD. More on that in this week's bonus episode with Professor Helen Bond. Sign [e-mail] thisishistory for more.

[B]

None of.

[A]

This is to say that Christmas isn't special or sacred, but it does mean your annoying know it all friend can pipe down and have another eggnog. And while they do, let's get back to the business at hand, which is, as it happens, the supposed stable incident. Bethlehem, where there's 100% occupancy in all the guesthouses. Where does that bit of the story come from and how much of it is in the Gospels? Well, for this bit of the Nativity we have to turn to Luke. As we heard last time, Luke's take on Jesus is what I've called the social Worker Saviour narrative. While Matthew is all about Christ as the promised Messiah and King. For Luke, Christ's ministry was all about care for the downtrodden. So Luke's Nativity, which is the one I'll mostly be drawing on today, is all about emphasising Jesus dirt poor origins. Matthew is Mr. Once in Royal David's city, Luke is definitely more away in a manger. Now, Luke tells us that Joseph and Mary go to Bethlehem for this Roman census, but his account of the actual birth is terse, almost to the point of neglect. When they get to Bethlehem, Luke says Mary brought forth her firstborn son and wrapped him in swaddling cloths and laid him in a manger because there was no room for them in the inn, which is cool but pretty light on detail. And even the detail Luke does give is open to interpretation. For example, there might not even have been an inn. The famous Nativity passage I just quoted comes from the King James Bible, the classic English translation of the Bible written back in 1611. The KJB is a doozy of a book other than the collected works of Shakespeare, there's probably no other source of so many English phrases. If you've ever seen eye to eye with someone or or escaped by the skin of your teeth, or resolved to eat, drink and be merry, you're quoting this book. It's the KJB that gives us no room at the inn. Now, such a famous turn of phrase that it's become idiomatic English for fully booked or just full. But if you look at more modern English translations of the Bible, the phrase no room at the inn is very often rendered differently. Let's take the sexily named New Revised Standard Version, updated edition, translated in 2021 and updated in 2025. This one says she gave birth to her firstborn son and wrapped him in bands of cloth and laid him in a manger because there was no place in the guest room. The guest room is definitely not as evocative as the inn, but it's now reckoned to be a better translation of the Greek term katalima, which means a private lodging rather than a public house. Quite why the translators didn't go with Airbnb, I don't know. Anyway, let's put all this textual quibbling aside and agree that Luke says Bethlehem was fully booked. He doesn't mention a stable. In fact, the Church of the Nativity in Bethlehem is built over a grotto or cave. He does mention swaddling cloths, which feels plausible. People still swaddle newborns today on the assumption that being wrapped up nice and tight is supposed to be more comforting for young babies and helps them sleep. But of course, let's bear this in mind in telling us about the swaddling cloths, quite a niche detail for an otherwise hazy account. Luke is probably trying to foreshadow the end of his story, where the crucified Christ will be wrapped in his grave clothes before he's committed to his tomb. But so far as details of the classic nativity scene are concerned, that's all we have. There's a manger, a baby Jesus, a Mary and Joseph, but no ox, a and no ass, and not even definitely a stable. That being said, it's from Luke that we do get some of the most famous characters from the Nativity, because outside Bethlehem, in the fields where livestock graze, a group of shepherds are minding their own business. So far as they're concerned, it's just another evening watching their flocks. But they're about to get the shock of their lives. When I was a little boy in.

[D]

The Middle Ages, I loved window shopping at the market. The sharp clink of the blacksmith making the day's most fashionable armour plates. But the next week, the stall disappeared.

[A]

I was devastated.

[D]

If only I had a magic portal to help me retrace my steps. Thankfully, Shopify does just that. If you've ever found yourself scrolling an online store with that purple shop button glowing in the corner or that's Shopify. It's an online commerce platform that makes buying and selling super easy. Shopify gives everyone that extra push to make that final purchase with one magic button. It saves all of those last minute details like payment and shipping information, so you don't have to plug them in every time. So if you want fewer people abandoning your cart, give Shopify a try. Sign up for your pound one per month trial and start selling today at shopify.co.uk thisishistory Go to shopify.co.uk thisISHistory that's shopify.co.uk thisIShistory.

[E]

Ford Bluecruise Hands free highway driving takes the work out of being behind the wheel, allowing you to relax and reconnect while also staying in control. Enjoy the drive in Bluecruise enabled vehicles like the F150 Explorer and Mustang Mach E available feature on equipped vehicles terms apply. Does not replace safe driving. See Ford.com BlueCruise for more details.

[A]

Darkness has fallen over the fields outside Bethlehem and the shepherds watching their flocks try to keep their eyes and Ears open. The night shift can drag a bit, but you don't want to fall asleep. The hills of Judea are roamed by predators who like nothing better than a cheeky chomp on a lamb donna. Wolves and bears prowl the hillsides. Lions live in the caves and they have a particularly bad reputation in this region. Back in the day when the great King David was a shepherd, he spent his childhood fighting lions. They used to nab his father's lambs and if he couldn't scare them off by hurling stones with his sling, he'd have to chase after them, smack them on the head and rescue the sheep from their mouths. If the lion tried to get spicy, David would have to, in his words, catch it by the jaw, strike it down and kill it. So being a shepherd out here is no joke. You never know what the night is going to bring. On this night, the shepherds are watching the sheep and passing small talk and listening out for roars and howls, when suddenly there's a blinding flash of light. And before they know what's going on, an angel of the Lord stood before them and the glory of the Lord shone around them. Arguably, angels need to learn how to make a more low key entrance because just like Mary before them, these shepherds are scared out of their wits. But the angel tells them to relax, do not be afraid. For see, I am bringing you good news of great joy for all the people, it says. What's that now? Well, here's where Luke gets kind of Matthew y for a moment. The angel tells the shepherds what the good news is to you. Is born this day in the city of David, a savior who is the Messiah, the Lord. If they want to go and check this out, they need to get down to Bethlehem pronto. The angel tells them this will be a sign for you. You will find a child wrapped in bands of cloth and lying in a mountain. At which point we're back to being Luki again. Because what greater juxtaposition could there be than the future saviour, messiah and lord lying wrapped up in little bands of cloth in an animal trough? It's standing everything these shepherds know about the way the world works on its head. Kings aren't supposed to be born into poverty and announced to Animal World workers. They're clients of the Roman Empire, whose ultimate boss, the first emperor Augustus, is currently engaged in cladding every building of the imperial capital in marble. And yet, at the same time, this is clearly providential because as they know, the greatest king in the history of the Jewish people, that's David was a shepherd on these very same hills, fighting lions on the daily so mad and scary as it is, this doesn't seem totally insane. And in case the shepherds need it any more convincing, the angel lays on a light show for them. A whole bunch of heavenly beings appear, blazing in the night sky, and they strike up a song. Glory to God in the highest heaven and on earth, peace to those who leave favors. It's like being in the sphere at Vegas. But then, just as suddenly as they appeared, the angels are gone. The shepherds take counsel with each other and agree they're not hallucinating. If what the angel and his flash mob just told them was true, they have to see it for themselves. Luke doesn't say how many shepherds are out there in the fields. He doesn't mention whether they leave anyone out there to look after the sheep, or whether they decide that the angelic pyrotechnics have probably scared the wits out of the lions, bears and wolves and they can risk leaving the flock for a bit. He just tells us that when the angels had left them and gone into heaven, the shepherds said to one another, let us go now to Bethlehem and see this thing that has taken place, which the Lord has made known to us. And so the first witnesses to this miraculous birth set out from the fields and make their way down to Bethlehem to take their place in a scene that will one day become an iconic tableau of a world religion.

[F]

Jason Disney asked me to do this podcast thing. I need some advice.

[B]

You've got to have banger guests Walker.

[F]

And Leah, Daniel Deamer, Tim Simons, Adam Coveland.

[A]

You're the one asking the questions. How have they better answer?

[E]

I don't know anything epic this season is just make a quest.

[F]

I'm Arian Samadry. Welcome to the Percy Jackson and the Olympians official podcast, Available wherever you get your podcasts and watch season two of Percy Jackson streaming now on Disney and Hulu. Learn [e-mail] whatson.

[A]

Mary rocks the baby Jesus in her arms and gently comforts him. He's only a few hours old, and at that tender age, there are only a few things babies need. They feed, they burp, and they sleep. It's Mary's first go as the mother of God, but for now she's keeping it simple. She's got him wrapped up nice and cozy in his swaddling cloths. As he finally settles down to sleep, she lays him gently in the manger. To be fair, it isn't much to look at. They'll definitely need to go to the Nazareth branch of IKEA when they get home so that Joseph can put his famous carpentry skills to good use assembling a proper crib. For now though, it'll do. In fact, Mary could use a nap herself. The long walk to Bethlehem plus the strain of the birthday has taken it right out of her. No chance, as anyone who's had a baby will probably know once word gets out that you've popped that front doorbell, doesn't stop going for weeks. Everyone and his granny will be coming by, dropping in with flowers and baby grows and wanting a cuddle and a coochie, coochie coo. True to form, Mary's baby has just settled down when through the streets of Bethlehem comes a gaggle of grubby looking dudes with crooks in their hands and expressions of wide eyed amazement on their faces from the faint odor of sheep pellets that wafts around them. Mary's gonna guess that these lads are shepherds. When they spot the manger, they confirm it. They have a whole story, in fact. Angels in the sky, a song of some sort. Yeah, it tracks. And it seems that what they see in the manger matches what the angel told them. Because no sooner have the shepherds taken a look at the baby, they're running round the streets telling everyone they meet what's happened. As Luke puts it, when they saw this, they made known what had been told them about this child. And all who heard it were amazed at what the shepherds told them. As indeed you would be. But of course, as ever, Luke's giving us, the readers of the Gospel, a coded message. Just as he's told us, Jesus is in swaddling cloths, preempting the grave clothes he'll wear during the Passion. So the shepherds spreading good news are foreshadowing something else. Luke himself is an evangelist, someone who's made it his life's mission to tell others about what happened to Christ in Jerusalem. That's why he's writing his gospel. And it's why he weaves into his gospel a bit of symbolic proto evangelism. The very first people outside the holy family to clap eyes on Jesus are humble shepherds. On one level, as we've heard, they're there to remind us that Jesus ancestor, King David, also started life as a poor shepherd in Bethlehem. But on another, they're there to preempt the apostles, disciples and evangelists who buy into Christ's ministry, embody the virtues of poverty and humility and go out and tell the world the good news. What's more, according to Luke, they're very welcome visitors. When Mary realizes they're going out into Bethlehem singing her baby's praises, she treasured their words and pondered them in her heart. Even better, the shepherds don't hang around the manger expecting Mary to make them cups of tea. Once they've had a squidge of the baby and spread the happy tidings, they hurry away back to the fields, glorifying and praising God for all all they'd heard and seen, just as it had been told them. Good idea. The lions are only going to go hungry for so long. So where does that leave us? Well, so far as our Nativity goes, we've had a virgin pregnancy, a long trip to Bethlehem, no room at the inn, a manger and some swaddling cloths. Shepherds and more heavenly hosts than you can shake a halo at. There are, though, three people missing to make this scene complete. Or rather four, because somewhere to the east of Bethlehem, a strange star has risen. A bunch of well dressed eggheads known as Magi. Wise men or kings, think they know what it means, and they're now on their way bearing gifts that are frankly a bit better than big smiles and the waft of sheep droppings. Which is great. But what's not great is that closer at hand, there's another king who's heard of the goings on in Bethlehem and he doesn't like the sound of it one bit. His name is Herod the Great and he could be about to put the kibosh on Christianity for good. That's for next time when we reach our miniseries finale of this Is History, a nativity to die for.

[B]

Sa.

[A]

Well, there he is. I can see Luke's baby Jesus sleeping soundly in the manger as I speak. In next week's episode, some strange men are going to pay him a visit, carrying some very famous gifts. So, to my dear royal favourites, that's prompted our resident Nativity expert, Helen Bond, to ask, what is the strangest present you've ever given a baby? Or the strangest present you've ever heard of someone else giving to a baby? Visit patreon.com thisishistory to continue that discussion.

[G]

The holidays mean more travel, more shopping, more time online and more personal info in more places that could expose you more to identity theft. But LifeLock monitors millions of data points per second. If your identity is stolen, our US based restoration specialists will fix it, guaranteed your money back. Don't face drained accounts, fraudulent loans or financial losses alone. Get more holiday fun and less holiday worry with LifeLock. Save up to 40% your first year. Visit LifeLock.com podcast terms apply.