Introducing...The Empire Of Gold

Summary

This is History: A Dynasty to Die For
Episode: Introducing...The Empire Of Gold
Release Date: February 25, 2025

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Summary

In the premiere episode of Season 6, titled "Introducing...The Empire Of Gold," Sony Music Entertainment delves into the captivating story of Mansa Musa, the 14th-century emperor of Mali and the richest man in history. Hosted by historian Luke Pepperer, the episode transports listeners to medieval West Africa, exploring the opulent and complex world of the Mali Empire. Through rich storytelling and insightful analysis, the episode highlights Mansa Musa's monumental pilgrimage to Mecca, his profound impact on global economics, and the intricate interplay of religion and culture in his reign.

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1. Setting the Stage: Medieval West Africa [00:00 - 03:31]

Luke Pepperer opens the episode by painting a vivid picture of early 14th-century West Africa. He describes a young prince thrust into power amidst a backdrop of vast empires and perilous landscapes.

Luke Pepperer [00:00]: "The early 14th century West Africa. 30,000 boats set sail to the new World, never to return."

The historian draws parallels between medieval Europe and West Africa, noting similarities such as the presence of aristocrats, peasants, warfare, and religious influence. However, he emphasizes key differences, particularly the predominance of Islam over Christianity in Mali, which shaped societal structures, trade, and diplomacy uniquely.

Historian [02:27]: "One of the big differences though is that in a lot of West Africa this time, and particularly in Mali... it's Muslim rather than Christian."

He also touches upon the distinctive climate and architectural styles of West Africa, highlighting the lack of fort-heavy structures typical of Europe but compensating with magnificent art and monumental architecture that showcased the empire's wealth and power.

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2. The Riches of Mali and Indirect European Contact [03:31 - 06:03]

The conversation shifts to Mali's economic prowess, particularly its status as a leading gold exporter. Historian Pepperer explains how Malian gold fueled economies far beyond Africa, reaching medieval Western Europe through intricate trade networks.

Historian [05:16]: "Mali at this time is one of the biggest, if not the biggest gold exporter... Malian gold is being used in things like the paintings of medieval Western European royalty."

This indirect contact underscores the interconnectedness of medieval civilizations and sets the stage for understanding the global impact of Mansa Musa's reign.

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3. Mansa Musa's Grand Pilgrimage [06:03 - 07:28]

At the heart of the episode is Mansa Musa's legendary pilgrimage to Mecca. Pepperer describes it as the most extravagant and large-scale pilgrimage ever undertaken, involving tens of thousands of people and vast amounts of gold.

Historian [06:11]: "Pilgrimages in the world... it's tens of thousands of people that he takes across from Mali to West Africa... and brings also with him tens of millions of pounds worth of gold."

The historian emphasizes how Musa's display of wealth not only showcased the might of the Mali Empire but also had significant economic repercussions, including crashing local economies due to the sudden influx of gold.

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4. Cultural and Religious Syncretism [03:40 - 05:11]

Delving deeper into the cultural fabric of Mali, Pepperer discusses the syncretic nature of Islam in the empire. While Musa and the elite adhered to Islam, traditional beliefs and practices remained deeply ingrained among the population.

Historian [04:54]: "In Mali, for instance... it's a little bit more syncretic. It's not as potent and especially culturally potent as it is in a lot of Western Europe at the time as well."

This blend of Islam and indigenous traditions created a unique societal dynamic, influencing everything from governance to daily life.

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5. Comparative Insights and Personal Reflections [07:28 - 10:39]

In a lighter segment, Pepperer shares his favorite historical moments, highlighting the Swahili diplomatic fleet's journey to China in the early 15th century—a testament to medieval African societies' technological and diplomatic prowess.

Historian [07:28]: "Swahili diplomatic fleet essentially sails from what's now Kenya and basically to China."

He also discusses his admiration for Alexandre Dumas, connecting literary narratives to the grandeur of historical figures like Mansa Musa.

Historian [09:09]: "I think it would just be... So entertaining to be opposite him."

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6. Conclusion and Teasers [10:39]

The episode wraps up with the host expressing enthusiasm for the forthcoming deep dives into Mansa Musa's story, promising listeners a rich exploration of his life and legacy in subsequent episodes.

Host [10:39]: "I'm really looking forward to hearing this whole story... Over on this is History."

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Notable Quotes

• Luke Pepperer [00:00]: "The early 14th century West Africa. 30,000 boats set sail to the new World, never to return."

• Historian [02:27]: "One of the big differences though is that in a lot of West Africa this time, and particularly in Mali... it's Muslim rather than Christian."

• Historian [05:16]: "Mali at this time is one of the biggest, if not the biggest gold exporter... Malian gold is being used in things like the paintings of medieval Western European royalty."

• Historian [06:11]: "Pilgrimages in the world... it's tens of thousands of people that he takes across from Mali to West Africa... and brings also with him tens of millions of pounds worth of gold."

• Historian [07:28]: "Swahili diplomatic fleet essentially sails from what's now Kenya and basically to China and... Africans were in China even before Europeans were in."

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Key Takeaways

• Mansa Musa's Wealth: Mansa Musa's unprecedented wealth not only defined his reign but also had far-reaching economic impacts across continents.

• Cultural Syncretism: The seamless blend of Islam with traditional Mali practices created a unique cultural and religious landscape.

• Global Connections: Mali's extensive trade networks facilitated indirect connections with Europe, highlighting the empire's significance in global history.

• Legacy and Storytelling: The episode sets the stage for an in-depth exploration of Mansa Musa's life, promising listeners an engaging narrative that intertwines history, culture, and personal drama.

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Final Thoughts

"Introducing...The Empire Of Gold" serves as a compelling introduction to one of Africa's most illustrious rulers. Through meticulous research and dynamic storytelling, Luke Pepperer brings to life the grandeur and complexity of the Mali Empire under Mansa Musa. This episode not only educates but also captivates, inviting listeners to journey through time and uncover the hidden gems of medieval African history.

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For more episodes and engaging historical narratives, visit sonymusic.com/podcasts.

Transcript

[Luke Pepperer]

The early 14th century West Africa. 30,000 boats set sail to the new World, never to return. They leave a young prince suddenly in.

[Historian]

Charge of an empire.

[Luke Pepperer]

He has a journey of his own to make. Seeking forgiveness for a terrible crime, he must venture across thousands of miles of perilous Saharan desert, where he'll encounter danger at every turn. Rival rulers, vicious bandits, disease, murder and menace await. But this emperor also wants to travel in style. He's bringing thousands of people along for the ride and enough cash to crash a country's economy. Join me, Luke Pepperer, as I take you to medieval Africa to tell the incredible true story of Mansa Musa, the richest man who ever lived and his audacious adventure which would change the world on this Is History presents Empire of Gold. Available wherever you get your podcasts.

[Host]

Hello, everyone. That's right. Our next this Is History mini adventure is going to take us somewhere completely new. Africa in the Middle Ages. And holding the reins for that story is Luke Pepperer. Luke's a writer, broadcaster, a historian, and the author of a brand new book called a journey through 500,000 years of African Culture and Identity. Luke, hello.

[Luke Pepperer]

Hello.

[Host]

So tell us, what's this story going to be about?

[Historian]

The story is about a 14th century emperor of Mali in West Africa, Mansa Musa, who is the richest man to have ever lived. And it's going to tell the story of his splendid and spectacular pilgrimage to Mecca, which he does, incidentally, after having accidentally killed his mother. So it's a journey of redemption, but also of glory and of showing off the wealth and the might and splendor of his empire and himself, and also to try to come to terms with the spiritual crisis.

[Host]

Well, that sounds absolutely fascina. And these things happen, you know, sometimes mothers do die and a pilgrimage will sort it out. Now, listeners will be very used to medieval England, even medieval Britain, even bits of France and the odd crusade which, you know, caused a fair bit of trouble in the Middle East. But my Plantagenets never made it to West Africa. So just give us a little bit of a flavour of what West Africa was like in the Middle ages, in the 14th century.

[Historian]

I mean, in a lot of ways it's similar to, I mean, medieval Europe and medieval England. You have an aristocr, you have peasants, you have, you know, warfare is important, there's a code of honor. And religion also is incredibly important. I'd say one of the big differences though is that in a lot of West Africa this time, and particularly in Mali, where Mansa Musa is from and where a lot of where the story starts, it's Muslim rather than Christian. So that also changes, you know, how people think about themselves and how they interact with each other and how they interact with faith and power and trade, economy, diplomacy, that kind of thing. And also probably another interesting is the.

[Guest]

The weather is also slightly better, I think. It's not as rainy, sort of cold, but you also have the same. You also don't have as many castles and things like that. It's not very sort of fort heavy. It's actually quite. And actually not very conflict heavy as well.

[Historian]

But you do have fantastic art and monumental architecture which reflects the power of the aristocracy at this time. So I'd say, yeah, power aristocracy, same. But climate, probably the bit where you'd.

[Guest]

Be like, spicer, that's a bit better.

[Host]

Better climate, not as many castles. So swings and roundabouts. Well, that's interesting. So how would you charact that difference in thinking between medieval Muslims and Christians?

[Historian]

You know, one thing that's interesting about especially Islam in Mali is that the different sects and different ways in which people can relate to it. Either it can be sort of quite martial, depending on the character not only of the monarch, but also of the society, or it can take a completely different character. So actually, in Mali, for instance, it's like Musa and the elite are officially Muslim, but they don't launch any wars in the name of it, for example. And they think of it as a religion of peace, trade and prosperity. And that's how they market it, and that's how they relate to it. And actually, it's something that Musa finds it hard to actually get a lot of his population on board with. So it's not something that actually he, you know, imposes. And then I think also, especially in, you know, an African context, that it blends with the traditional beliefs and practices of the people as well. And I think also Mali, I mean, Musa as well, although being officially Muslim, because a lot of the Mandinga people, just the ethnic group of the Mali Empire, are loyal to their traditional practices and their traditional religion and want to maintain that either in whole or in part, and means that Musa, as well as doing these Muslim religious practices, also has to take part in the traditional ones as well, and also is always trying to square that culture with Islam. So I think there's an aspect where it blends with the traditional culture. It's a little bit more syncretic. It's not as potent and especially culturally potent as it is in a lot of Western Europe at the time as well. So I think Those are the ways in which it differs and I think is also particular to Musa himself. And Mali at this time.

[Host]

Fascinating. Any contact at all between West Africa and Europe at this time?

[Guest]

Yeah, indirect contact.

[Historian]

I mean, so the West Africans obviously engage in a lot of trade and actually Mali at this time is one of the biggest, if not the biggest gold exporter and you know, gold producer in the world at the time. So there's actually a minor Mali where 50% of the world's gold is coming from. And that gold is taken by traders, either indigenous Saharan traders or sometimes the West African traders cross the Sahara to North Africa and they're taken from traders who come from the. Into North Africa back to the Mediterranean and actually makes its way up to Western Europe. So actually Malian gold is being used in things like the paintings of medieval Western European royalty and stuff like that. So there's indirect contact, but direct contact comes sort of in the next century. The next century or two is when we actually have that. Yeah. A more direct contact, but would have been aware of each other.

[Host]

What is it about this particular story about Mansa Musa and his pilgrimage from Mali to Mecca and Dinah that really gets you going?

[Historian]

Well, I think it's just the scale of it. I mean, it's definitely, I would say the biggest and most epic pilgrimage to Mecca. But probably, I mean, you know, we could. Something we could discuss. But actually pilgrimages in the world, I mean, it's tens of thousands of people that he takes across from Mali to West Africa, all the way to Mecca and brings also with him tens of millions of pounds worth of gold. And he's spending the money, he's crashing economies and he's, you know, building mosques and he's transforming areas of the desert into, you know, swimming pools and his own personal playgrounds. So he is just, it's a journey on a scale that, you know, has not seen before. And it, you know, mix, it's so big and spectacular mix and world famous. So I'm really excited to be telling that story and sharing some of the power, talking about the power of Mali and of Mansa Musa in particular.

[Host]

Getting a little bit of an inferiority complex here because at the time you're talking about, we've got Edward II kind of running around sort of this cold rainy island at the end of the world, his nobles and getting a red hot poker waved dangerously near his rectum. And there we have, we have Mansa Musa kind of transforming entire continents geographically, politically and economically. Let's get to know you. I know you, but Maybe our listeners know less about you. Let's get to know you a little bit with some quick fire questions, if you don't mind. What's your favourite moment in history? Could be anything.

[Historian]

Well, one of my favourite moments, actually is the time that an East African. So specifically Swahili, this is in, like, the early 15th century. A Swahili diplomatic fleet essentially sails from what's now Kenya and basically to China. And that's a moment which I think is really interesting because I think it demonstrates the technological capability, the reach and the power of medieval African societies. And they go there and they bring gifts, including live animals, like, you know, giraffes and all this sort of thing. And the Chinese are actually absolutely floored by how exotic these animals are. So it establishes strong diplomatic contact between these nations, which are completely, you know, completely different and so far away. And more importantly, what it demonstrates to me is that Africans were in China even before Europeans were in. Were in Africa.

[Guest]

Well, it sort of flips the world history on its head as well.

[Historian]

So I quite like that, like an.

[Host]

Epic journey as well. If you could have dinner with anyone.

[Guest]

Oh, Anya from history.

[Host]

Okay, you don't have to say me. Who would it be?

[Guest]

Well, as well as my history, I also actually love my literature as well.

[Historian]

And so historical figure that I know a lot about and would love to meet is Alessandre Dumas, one of my favorite authors and also author of Three Musketeers, Count of Monte Cristo. He was actually a quarter African, so his father was half African, was a general in Napoleon's army. But Alexandre Dumas was absolutely fascinating, as well as being a great storyteller, was apparently man who has just so much joie de vivre. Like, he just lived large, did a ton of writing. He loved food, he loved partying, apparently had like, up to 40 mistresses as well, and apparently just loved to talk. Like, someone described his tongue, I think, as a windmill, just like, kept going. So he had a lot of stories, was a great storyteller, not only in.

[Guest]

Writing, but also, you know, in person.

[Historian]

And I think it would just be.

[Guest]

So entertaining to be opposite him.

[Host]

Is there any overlap between Dumas Cande, Monte Cristo and Mansa Musa?

[Guest]

There's no direct overlap, but actually some of the stories do have similar overtones, actually.

[Historian]

So, I mean, Duma is hugely influenced by the Arabian Nights, incidentally, which a lot of people compare Mansa Musa to. You know, these stories of almost mythical wealth and splendor and hidden treasure and especially spectacular wealth is something that infuses those stories of the Arabian Nights. And I mean, another interesting link is that actually at the time the Arabian Nights are sort of being written and compiled as we know them, that's actually around the time Musa is living. That's 14th century. And one of the places you go to, which is Cairo under the Mamluks, it's actually in Mamluk, Egypt and during the Mamnik period that actually some of these stories are being written.

[Guest]

So for example, the Count of Monte.

[Historian]

Cristo, he's a man basically who's imprisoned wrongly. He basically escapes the prison, finds treasure, and he uses the wealth to build himself up as this Byronic count. And he uses the money and the wealth and his position to basically wreak revenge on his enemy. So I think that use and you know, sort of with Musa in order to achieve certain ends, you know, using these kind of fantastic resources at your disposal. Those are definitely the similarities between them. And actually not minding. Cause this is something that is part of Musa's character is that he doesn't mind spending whatever he has at disposal if it comes to achieving certain ends. And actually there's a similarity between that and Edmond Dante's in the count.

[Host]

So it's cash rules everything around me, as the Wu Tang Clan once said. So thank you very much for that, Luke. I'm really looking forward to hearing this whole story. Don't forget, listeners, after every one of Luke's episodes, I'll be back to ask Luke plenty of questions and dive even deeper into the story. Over on this is History. Plus, if you want to get a free trial, go to thisishistorypod.com or go to Apple Podcasts and click Try Free. I will see you all next week.