#608 - Jim Norton

Summary

This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von – Episode #608: Jim Norton

Air date: September 5, 2025
Guest: Jim Norton
Host: Theo Von

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Overview

This episode features comedian, radio icon, and podcaster Jim Norton in his first appearance on "This Past Weekend." The conversation runs the gamut: from the realities and quirks of podcasting and standup, to deep dives on personal relationships, sexuality, addiction, the comedy scene, and philosophical perspectives on self-identity and society. True to form, both Theo and Jim bring their trademark candor, sharp wit, vulnerability, and humor to a freewheeling, very human exchange.

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Key Discussion Points

Podcasting Pet Peeves & Microphone Etiquette

• The episode opens with the two comics riffing about podcast annoyances—like guests who eat or chew gum on mic, dry mouth sounds, and self-awareness behind the microphone.
  • Memorable quote (Jim): “That sticky fruit roll-up sound. Yeah.” [02:07]
  • Both confess to their own podcasting faux pas and the anxiety of letting listeners down.

Aging, Self-Image, and Comedy

• Jim discusses body image, aging, and evolving self-perception:
  • “I went from mediocre to kind of shitty... I feel fat and just mushy and my neck is fat.” [03:31]
  • Theo notes that Jim seems to be growing into himself nicely, even as they both joke about losing their youthful spark.

Naming "Unconceivable" & Life on the Fringes

• Jim details the intent behind the title of his new special "Unconceivable," revealing layers of meaning related to both an archaic term and his wife’s infertility.
  • “It’s unconceivable on purpose. An old way of saying it. But also a nod to my wife who cannot conceive.” [05:08]
  • The duo riffs on dark, self-deprecating ways comics process being outsiders.

Memorable Nostalgia: The Shamokin Dunkin Donuts Saga

• The hosts revisit a classic viral moment: a Shamokin, PA news segment featuring locals mourning the closure of a Dunkin Donuts, idolizing the personalities involved.
  • “A lot of my friends go in there, get the cold coffee, iced coffee, I guess it’s called.” [08:07, Edna Faust]
  • This quirky story exemplifies how odd internet ephemera bonds the comedy community.

Jim Norton’s Marriage & Navigating Commitment

• Jim opens up about marrying a trans woman after a 90-day fiance visa, living in Montreal during the pandemic, and adapting to married life.
  • “You fight different when you’re married, because you can’t just go, fuck you, get out.” [10:24]
  • Both discuss past struggles with relationships, self-sabotage, and intimacy.

Understanding Sexual Orientation and Attraction

• In a frank, nuanced discussion, Jim explains his attraction to trans women, facing societal judgment, and how sexuality often defies categories.
  • “I don’t have the answer... It’s a pull, you don’t choose what direction you get pulled in.” [13:28]
  • Talks about the curiosity and questions he gets from men, including fighters, and stresses living authentically.

Relationship Strengths: Humor, Acceptance, & Transparency

• Jim celebrates how his wife’s humor and confidence allow him to be candid about their relationship on stage:
  • “She loves the stuff I talk about, no matter how embarrassing… She doesn’t give a fuck.” [17:59]
  • Importance of self-acceptance and not living for others' approval.

Comedy, UFC, and the Urge to Be Seen

• Jim discusses his UFC Unfiltered podcast with Matt Serra, paralleling fighters, comics, and strippers as people compelled to “show something private and want them to like it.” [23:14]
  • Commentary on why applause breaks don’t move him—only genuine laughter matters.
  • Praise for comics like Louie CK and insight into standup craft.

Mental Health, Addiction, and Recovery

• Both comics get candid about issues with porn, sex addiction, loneliness, and emotional maturity.
  • “I hate the way I feel the next day [after watching porn]... I feel kind of dissolved.” [37:25, Theo]
  • “That’s addiction. Sex is hard... porn, I still struggle with it.” [37:53, Jim]
  • They explore the “hunt” and ritualistic aspects of addiction vs. authentic intimacy.

On Growing Up and Identity

• The conversation delves into how comedy can delay emotional growth and the pros/cons of not following the conventional “adult” path.
  • “When you’re not following the pattern... you always feel like the end is not directly in front of me.” [41:30, Jim]
  • They discuss the challenge of finding and owning one’s identity in a noise-filled, judgmental world.

Kids, Family & Generational Shifts

• Theo expresses a desire for kids as a way to serve something beyond himself; Jim’s content without but supportive if his wife wants to adopt after he’s gone.
  • “I have nothing against it... But when I hear somebody who wants them, it supposedly opens up a part of you.” [44:23, Jim]

Sex, Society, & Changing Attitudes

• Addressing sexual taboos, hypocrisy among moralizing public figures, and societal evolution.
  • “But the majority who are scolding... in DC these prostitutes are going, do you know how many of these senators I fuck?” [31:33, Jim]
• Hilarious, offbeat banter about Mayflower sexual dynamics, shame, and repression.
  • “You gonna tell me Miles Standish didn’t get his asshole played with?” [32:24, Jim]

Honest Look at Friendship, Masculinity, and Emotional Bonds

• Vulnerable discussion on missing male affection and friendship, parsing the difference between homosexual attraction and deep platonic love.
  • “There's a moat between... loving a friend and wanting to peck them on the neck, for sure…” [62:18, Jim]

Political/Nuanced Takes

• Jim and Theo discuss polarization, groupthink, and the dangers of purity testing and conformity in politics and comedy.
  • “They’re joiners, masquerading as brave truth-tellers. It’s annoying.” [27:29, Jim]
  • “People give themselves the ability to go through information intelligently, but they think the rest of the public can't.” [117:19, Jim]
  • Praise for Trump’s sharpness and the privilege of interviewing world leaders, regardless of personal politics.

Comedians Supporting Comedians

• Both reflect on the importance of receiving encouragement from comics and even staff early in their careers.
  • “...the bartender said, hey, man, you did a good job. And just something like that little kept me coming back for the next two months.” [109:22, Theo]
  • Jim underscores not tearing down others just for social climbing or virtue signaling.

Reflections on Fame, Meeting Idols, and Humiliation

• Both share stories of meeting celebrities (and mistaking regular people for them), the strangeness of status, and their own embarrassing moments.
  • “I realized it was a Johnny Depp impersonator… Stupid, no show biz Jim Norton.” [95:35, Jim]

Kill Tony, Modern Standup, & New Comics

• Jim is celebrated as a standout guest on Kill Tony, and both dissect why the show works: honesty, pressure, and fairness in the process.
  • “If you could survive in that... If you're just doing the Mothership, you still know how many people are going to see it… If you're good, he’ll acknowledge you as being funny…” [112:48, Jim]

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Jim Norton, self-deprecating on his special's title:
  “If it was about me and my existence, I would have called it ‘should have been a load in a sock’.” [05:47]

• On attraction and the spectrum of sexuality:
  “You don’t choose what direction you’re going to get pulled in…something hits me and I lock into it.” [13:28 – Jim]

• Theo, on comedy stunting adulthood:
  “When you're comedian, you don’t ever have to grow or…I’ve struggled at certain points in my life to grow up.” [41:06]

• On being comfortable discussing being with a trans partner:
  “I have fun with her. She’s my favorite person. She’s the person I should have married. Do I get guys who are curious? Yes...I don’t talk about it in some serious...like, nobody wants to be scolded. Just be with whoever you like.” [20:03 – Jim]

• On addiction and ritual:
  “The ritual for me was looking and talking [to prostitutes]…Sometimes it’s the whole idea of doing something even more than doing it.” [36:21 – Jim]

• On seeking validation/friendship:
  “There was a part of me, for a little bit, [that thought] ‘is this a gay thing, or is this just a friend thing?’” [61:34 – Theo]

• On politics and performative outrage:
  “These purity tests are just one more way for people to climb the ladder. They give you a purity test, you fail, they climb a little higher because they gave the test. It’s nonsense.” [116:31 – Jim]

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Timestamps by Topic

• [01:05] – Podcast etiquette, mics, and pet peeves
• [03:00] – Aging, self-consciousness, body image
• [05:08] – The meaning behind "Unconceivable"
• [07:00] – Shamokin Dunkin Donuts news clip
• [10:17] – On marriage, living together, changing as a partner
• [12:26] – Jim’s wife is transgender: what it means, societal views
• [13:28] – Attraction, sexuality, and living authentically
• [16:11] – Moving to Montreal during COVID, relationship test
• [23:14] – Comedy, UFC and the need for attention/validation
• [35:26] – Intimacy, addiction, pornography
• [41:29] – Growing up, resisting “adulthood,” and identity
• [44:23] – Kids, family, adoption
• [51:14] – Inflection point: a cocaine-fueled night leads Theo to recovery
• [66:35] – Jim discusses being bullied for his sexuality
• [109:07] – Importance of encouragement, camaraderie in comedy
• [111:08] – Kill Tony as a stand-up phenomenon
• [117:23] – People and personal responsibility when interpreting information
• [123:12] – On resisting temptation and staying “good” on the road

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Tone & Final Thoughts

The episode is candid, bawdy, funny, and often movingly honest. Jim Norton’s willingness to discuss taboo subjects—from sex addiction and being married to a trans woman, to his relationship failures and cravings for acceptance—is matched by Theo’s earnest, probing nature and gift for finding both the comedy and emotional core of any subject. Both comics champion authenticity, resilience, and the importance of community, showing deep empathy beneath their irreverence. This is a must-listen for comedy fans and anyone interested in how artists wrestle with vulnerability, identity, and self-acceptance.

Watch Jim Norton's special "Unconceivable" now on YouTube and check out his podcast "Jim Norton Can't Save You."

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This summary captures the key highlights, philosophy, and humor in the wide-ranging conversation, offering a window into the minds and hearts of two of comedy’s most introspective and unfiltered voices.

Transcript

[Theo Von]

Packages by Expedia. You were made to occasionally take the hard route to the top of the Eiffel Tower. We were made to easily bundle your.

[Jim Norton]

Trip Expedia made to travel flight inclusive.

[Theo Von]

Packages are atoll protected. Today's guest is his first time on the podcast. He's a legendary standup comedian and host. He helped give me my start in getting on the airwaves. He has a new special on YouTube called Unconceivable and his own podcast called Jim Norton can't save you. Today's guest is the one of one Mr. Jim Norton. Well, I was just telling you we can get started. You want to.

[Jim Norton]

Yeah, whatever you want.

[Theo Von]

Yeah, yeah, I was just telling you that I feel like, yeah, you can move it around.

[Jim Norton]

All right. Just let me know if I'm off. Michael. About. I'm obsessed with that too. With sound. Like when I'm interviewing somebody, if they're like they're off mic, I'm like on them, you know, Oh, I feel horrible.

[Theo Von]

The other day I did it. I did somebody's podcast and I chewed gum the whole time.

[Jim Norton]

We've had that. Yeah, it happens.

[Theo Von]

But the fact that I did, like, I do it for a living, like.

[Jim Norton]

How did I do that?

[Theo Von]

It every day, it still haunts me a little bit.

[Jim Norton]

That you chewed the gum.

[Theo Von]

Yeah. Just feel. Because I'm like, you know, we came, they came and we all put our time in, you know, just to be there and do it. And I freaking just like, you know, sometimes you show up and you just, you do the most bush league thing.

[Jim Norton]

I'd like to ask them, did you notice it while it was happening and did you want to say something? Because we've had like, we had Marin on one time and he was eating like oatmeal or something the whole time or chewing something. And the fans were furious and were like, why didn't we just say something when he was eating? Sometimes when you're hosting, you don't tell the person, like, you're chewing gum. Stop chewing gum.

[Theo Von]

Yeah. He should feel embarrassed.

[Jim Norton]

You feel embarrassed.

[Theo Von]

Yeah.

[Jim Norton]

But he still should have told you.

[Theo Von]

I mean, I've had instances where somebody whose mouth will be very dry.

[Jim Norton]

Oh, yeah.

[Theo Von]

You know what I'm talking about.

[Jim Norton]

Yes. That sticky fruit roll up sound. Yeah.

[Theo Von]

And you know, all you can think of is the listeners being like this.

[Jim Norton]

Dry, this pasty mouth. Idiot. Yeah.

[Theo Von]

This fire survivor showing up. And it's so true. Like it. But you can't sit over there and like, baby bird, somebody some water.

[Jim Norton]

But you want to say to them, like, you want some water and then they don't. They're like, no, it's like when someone's breath stinks, you know, like, you want piece of common. No, I'm good. You know, you're not good. Yeah, but so you know, we're trying to be courteous.

[Theo Von]

Yeah. You want me to pressure wash your face for a second? Like that's another thing you could offer them.

[Jim Norton]

But you see, like how you just said that now I'm making sure I'm opening my water. People have to be self aware too. Like anybody who's doing something, if your mouth is pasty and dry and sticky and sounds like you should be aware of it. You have ears. Yeah, yeah.

[Theo Von]

And then that you just realize, oh, that person is offline. They are just not. They don't know what's going in. Or sometimes it'll be. A woman's lipstick is a little thick and it kind of. Just a little crack.

[Jim Norton]

Yes. A little pop. Yeah. That stuff drives me crazy. I pick up on. And I sniffle a lot. I fucking. Like, I'm. I. I'm a noisy, uncomfortable to be around fucking person. Like, I get it. So I have no right to tell other people, but like, I'm always clear. Clear my throat. It's really fucking horrible.

[Theo Von]

Yeah, well, as we get older too, it's just like, you're just like kind of a. You're just hoping that every now and then you. You're a little bit of the semblance of what you once were.

[Jim Norton]

Yeah. Oh, no, I've given up on that. I. I've thrown in the towel. I will never again be what I once was. And I was only mediocre to begin with, so I went from mediocre to kind of shitty. But it's funny, like, I'm so self conscious about how I look and my wife is like, oh, you look fine. And. And I got a text from Gutfeld the other night, a random text. He's like, hey, man, I saw you on that Kill Tony thing. That's for you. That's a good weight for you, like. And so people are telling me I look okay, but I'm like, I don't feel okay. I feel fat and just mushy and my neck is fat. I just drop £20.

[Theo Von]

Oh, you want to drop? Well, it's so funny because I saw you last time, I was like, man, Jim, you kind of look. I feel like you have looked better as you gotten older. Kind of you. As you've grown more into an adult.

[Jim Norton]

Thank you. Yeah. I don't know. I mean, I, I, I look back on my old pictures. I'm not impressed with them either. So I can't go. Like, I want to get back to those days. It's like, rush. Rush back to what?

[Theo Von]

You know, do you ever, like. Because sometimes comedians are so uncomfortable. And I was just, I was watching you have a. You have a new special that's on YouTube. Unconceivable, right? And it's so funny because I've thought of things being inconceivable for.

[Jim Norton]

But to go as far to be.

[Theo Von]

Like, inconceivable, like, I should never even have been, like, contemplated. That's intense, dude. Because I think at the depth of some comedians and artists and not, not trying to sound like, like, we're special, but we're up. There's something a little wrong with a lot of people in.

[Jim Norton]

Yeah.

[Theo Von]

And we choose to try to put it out there sometimes. All artists do. Even strippers. I think they do that in their way. But, like, like, there's something like, God, I should never even have been here.

[Jim Norton]

Well, the reason I named it that, honestly, people thought I. I up and spelled it wrong, but I didn't. It's unconceivable on purpose. It's an old way of saying it. It's actually technically correct in the English language. But it was also, like a nod to my wife, who is, you know, cannot conceive, obviously. So it was awesome.

[Theo Von]

I haven't gotten that far through it.

[Jim Norton]

Oh, okay.

[Theo Von]

Yeah, it was part of about 20.

[Jim Norton]

Oh, okay. Yeah, Yeah. I talk about her. It was, it was part, Part of. It's about her being not able to conceive. That was kind of why I called it unconceivable.

[Theo Von]

Oh, I see what you're saying. I thought, I guess I just took that somewhere in it. Just because you've always kind of operated on the fringes of, like, depravity or what's okay in the world sort of in your own space. Is that okay to say that?

[Jim Norton]

Oh, yeah. It's 100% accurate. But if it was about me and my existence, I would have called. It should have been a load and a sock. That's what I would have named. Yeah.

[Theo Von]

It should have been a practice round. Ye. I should have been. Like, I should. Yeah. Like, I should not have been in the gun.

[Jim Norton]

No, no, no. My father should have wiped me out of his belly button with a Dunkin Donuts napkin.

[Theo Von]

Smoke and remember the Dunkin Donuts, dude, You turned me on to that.

[Jim Norton]

Yeah, the, The Iced coffee, Cold coffee. Cold. What they call cold coffee. Yeah. Her name is Edna Faust. And I remember, we love them. So the joy we got from them.

[Theo Von]

You gave me that joy, dude. And I've showed that over the years. We've had people sitting here, and I'm like, you gotta see this.

[Jim Norton]

Because the thing that's amazing about Edna is, is was her. Her deductive reasoning was that she knew that, like, iced coffee, a cold coffee, like, she's just watching her go through the clues as to what to call it is why I love her so much.

[Theo Von]

Yeah, drop it real quick, because I also want to tell you, Dutch came to one of my shows one time.

[Jim Norton]

You met Dutch?

[Theo Von]

I met him, Dutch and Smith. What's his last name?

[Jim Norton]

Dutch. What do you.

[Theo Von]

Smith. There you go.

[Jim Norton]

A coffee shop in Shamokin is closed following an arson over the weekend. It's definitely gonna miss it. No doubt about it. A teenager is charged with staring inside the restaurant on Saturday night. Shamokin police officer Ray Psycho says no one was hurt, but the place has extensive damage. Psycho says the fire was started inside the women's bathroom. The toilet paper dispenser was lit on fire. Fire. And within about a minute, the entire place was filled up with smoke.

[Theo Von]

The mother did explain that she's recently.

[Jim Norton]

Been put on new medication, but as.

[Theo Von]

Far as for what reason, we're unsure right now.

[Jim Norton]

The 13 committed to setting the fire is currently at a juvenile detention center. Many people who live in Shamokin are upset that Dunkin Donuts is closed. Now I have to rely on myself to go to maybe a Turkey Hill or something where I don't like their donuts.

[Theo Von]

I rather the donuts at Dunkin Donuts.

[Jim Norton]

And I'm kind of dealing with it, but I really miss Dunkin Donuts. I go there every day. I get a chicken baker, croissant, coffee, Powerade.

[Theo Von]

If I'm dehydrated, I sit there all the time. If I have any, like, legal work.

[Jim Norton]

That I need to do, I go there, I meet with my attorneys there. I'm gonna miss that place one day if it don't open up. Yeah, a lot of my friends go in there, get the cold coffee, iced coffee, I guess it's called. Oh, there she goes. She figures it out. She makes. She knows. Edna Faust, Unsolved mystery. She gets to it. And Dutch Smith doing his legal work. I mean, there really is. And by the way, I hate to bum the podcast vibe out, but the first woman at Turkey Hill Donuts, she passed away.

[Theo Von]

Nuh.

[Jim Norton]

I'm Almost positive. We did a deep dive on her and I do think that unfortunately she is no longer with us.

[Theo Von]

God, she seemed like the most healthy of the three of them. I thought she did too.

[Jim Norton]

She was definitely the one I was. If I had to be attracted to one of the three, it would have been. Faust was a close second.

[Theo Von]

You could play Faust in like a biopic one day.

[Jim Norton]

I would love to. Brian Dennehy right now has her, but I think.

[Theo Von]

Oh, but Doug Smith came out to a show, dude, he's doing great now, so. But that was amazing, bro. But yeah, you put me onto this and I. And I've like shared it with so many people over the years, so thank you. Dude.

[Jim Norton]

It was such a bizarre. I remember he was on with myself and was on Opie and Gym and I think that was the show. And yeah, we would play all these weird clips and once in a while you find one. It's like, that's a gem. Yeah, that's a gem. But I never heard. I never had any follow about Edna Faust. I'm dying to know how she is is. Because I think she's the best.

[Theo Von]

Yeah, let's put it. We'll put it out on all call. Hopefully somebody can send something in, man. And we'll see if we can get a little follow up. The Faust over there outside of Turkey Hill and Dunkin Donuts and Shamokin.

[Jim Norton]

They've rebuilt it, by the way. Oh, they have. I have. We did follow up. They have rebuilt the Dunkin Donuts and it's a big thing in Shamokin. I was gonna stop in there going to a gig one time, but I'm like, no, I can't. I just, I. I cared while I was on the air and then as soon as I was in the cars. Shimokin. I'm not stopping.

[Theo Von]

Yeah. It is funny how you make little plans like, oh, I gotta be. And then things come along. You're like, ah, let's just keep hitting. Stay on the road.

[Jim Norton]

Stay on the road. It was fun in theory. It was fun to think about and to talk about. But now that I'm actually going to be 25 minutes out of my way that way and then 25 minutes on my way there. I'm not doing this. Yeah, them.

[Theo Von]

Yeah, them. Yeah, them. Dude, I. Yeah. So unconceivable was your wife. Because your wife can't conceive you're married now.

[Jim Norton]

Yeah. Yes. Yeah.

[Theo Von]

And do you feel like you kind of gave like, what was it like? Because you. Like that was your first Marriage?

[Jim Norton]

Yeah, my first and hopefully my only. Yeah, I only did it because we, when she came into the. She was having a hard time, so we did a 90 day fiance visa to get her in. So we got married 90 days after she came in. Otherwise I would have just dated. But it's okay. You fight different when you're married because you can't just go, fuck you get out. Like you're there. So you got to resolve it faster.

[Theo Von]

You have to go back to your corner kind of.

[Jim Norton]

Got to go back to your corner kind of. I used to have 3 and 4. Like I would fight with girlfriends and then they would leave and then for three or four days I would just have hookers come over. Like it really was an ugly scene. And this is a lot, lot easier, A lot cleaner.

[Theo Von]

Yeah. Does this feel easier? Kind of like, does it feel like you kind of escape? Cuz, I mean, I got like a lot of, I think, commitment issues and stuff like that. And I just feel like, man, at some point I got to escape. Like, not use marriage as an escape. But I would love to not be kind of trapped just in this stupid circle that I get in sometimes.

[Jim Norton]

Yeah, it's like, it's almost like it's. It's a lonely spiral too. Like I forget, like whenever I get pissed at her, I'm like, yeah, but I was really depressed when I was single. Like, I wasn't happy when I was single. I was miserable. I hated being al. So if I fight with her and I'm like, yeah, this kind of sucks. I'm like, yeah, but it's not. It's me. I'm the problem. Because if I'm single, I'm even worse than I am right now. So no, I don't want to. I like being married. I just. Sometimes when you think I'm married, you're like, fucking life is over. But I'd prefer this. Yeah. Yeah.

[Theo Von]

At least you have someone to be there with you in your life. You're like. And you kind of have a donkey to pin the tail. And you're like, fucking.

[Jim Norton]

Yeah, the wife. Yeah, fuck her. What does she want? Yeah. If there's things are wrong, my fucking wife. It's also a good excuse though. Like, ah, nah, my wife's not feeling well. Or I got to go home and see my wife. Like there's little built in things that are kind of advantages that I didn't see. And I'm glad I did it because if I didn't do it, I would still be running in the same. That's why I fattened up, because I literally am not doing the same things I used to do on the road to get, like, those little mini highs you get, you know, Now I'm just in a hotel room alone. And what do you do? You order food at 2 o' clock in the morning instead of having somebody come over. Yeah, it's not as fun.

[Theo Von]

So you're. And your wife is. Your wife is trans?

[Jim Norton]

Yes.

[Theo Von]

Transgender?

[Jim Norton]

Yes.

[Theo Von]

Transgender.

[Jim Norton]

Yes.

[Theo Von]

Okay. And so what does transgender mean exactly? Because people use the term all the time and. Sorry to go to, like, such rudimentary stuff, but it means a man and a woman.

[Jim Norton]

Yeah. Like, you're born in a male body. And, you know, they have never. They can't say exactly medically what makes a person transgender. That's why there's so much arguing about it. It's up to speculation. Some people like, ah, you're just a crazy guy in a dress. And other people like, no, you're. You're born this way. But they can't tell you medically exactly what it is in the brain. But, yeah, she definitely was born in a male body, but if you talk to her for five minutes, you know, that's a woman's brain. But I don't. I. I would lose the argument in court. I. I don't have the argument in court. You know, she definitely does not have a vagina. Yeah. You know. No, she's not at all.

[Theo Von]

Okay. You look. Yeah.

[Jim Norton]

Oh, yeah. It's not even a penis. It's a. Oh, yeah, definitely. Wow.

[Theo Von]

Were you able to discern over time why you liked something so unique? Kind of like, is that a way to ask?

[Jim Norton]

Yeah, you ask whatever you want. I mean, I don't know. Like, it's one of those things where, when it comes to sexuality and attraction, what makes a person like, what they like? I don't have the answer to that. It's. It's a. It's a. It's a pull. It's like you. You don't choose what direction you're going to get pulled in. Sometimes, like, for me, attraction has never been, like, I'm going to go over there and, like, that. It's going to be. Something hits me, and I kind of like lock into it and I feel it, and it pulls me that way, you know? I mean, but I.

[Theo Von]

Piece of art, kind of.

[Jim Norton]

In a way. Yeah, kind of. Yes, yes. But the living art one that you can really just, you know, slap against your face. Yeah. Art you can sit on. Dang.

[Theo Von]

Do you ever go places now, do you have, say, if you are dating someone who's transferring, do they ask questions like, why do you prefer this? Or is that, like, something you kind of have to make clear to them a certain way so that they feel okay?

[Jim Norton]

Is that, I think, any other relationship, it's like, in bed, sexually, like, fudgeing or not fudgeing or that type of stuff?

[Theo Von]

No, I think even just like, on a person to person basis, like, do I seem like a trophy to you, or do I seem like something like a novelty or like a nice piece of jewelry, like, you know, this artistic collection piece? Or do I. Do you really love me because of who I am?

[Jim Norton]

Yes. And I think that any. Any person. Any person has to, like, you know, as a guy with money, you have to wonder, hey, does this woman like me because of who I am or because I have money? And with her, she could be like, is it because I'm transgender that he wants a transgender? I think that with any person, you kind of like, you just. You know what somebody's motives are after a while. Yeah. And if you're with someone as a trophy, like, if I'm just like, hey. I mean, we've been on and off for, like, I mean, back together since 2019, so six years. And we were a year and a half before then. So by this point, after seven or eight years, you know what a person, like, I was like, well, does she like me? Does she, like. Because I have money, but there's a lot of guys that have money, and there's a lot of trans people. So if that's all we wanted, we could easily go out and find somebody else who fit that criteria. Yeah.

[Theo Von]

Oh, yeah. She's beautiful.

[Jim Norton]

Oh, thank you.

[Theo Von]

Yeah. And you see, you guys have lived together, huh?

[Jim Norton]

We lived together. I put her up. Immigration was very slow. It was just one of those things where she had something she had to get fixed, and we did it right. But it's just, you know, it's a slow process. So while she was waiting, I moved her to Montreal, and I would drive up and see her, and I wound up spending the whole pandemic there. I drove up. They're gonna close the Canadian border. So I drove up one day after the radio show, and I just stayed for 15 months. I was out of the US for 15 months. It was crazy doing the radio show from there, just live. It's my first time living with anyone, and it was in the pandemic in a one bedroom in Montreal.

[Theo Von]

Oh, my God.

[Jim Norton]

If we can do this, I can make this work, like, if we can. Because Canada was even panicky more than the US about COVID you know, 8 o' clock curfew, you know, they were really crazy up there about it. So I'm like, if we can make it through this, we can be okay, you know, in New York and having our lives together.

[Theo Von]

So was that kind of a moment for you? Were like, okay, this is a big thing that I was able to do. And that gave you the. Because, like, sometimes a question like, how do I get to those next places? I think when you're kind of like, you know, I'm not 40s, I'm single, so it's like, you, like, will I ever get there? You know what's really going to change? Was that, like, a thing that really made it kind of different for you?

[Jim Norton]

Yeah, that. That made it, like, okay, this is a real thing. Like, I had never done that with anybody in the States, but we were forced to, because if I came back to the States once the border was closed, I would not have been allowed back into Canada. So I had to choose between, like, being in New York or my life with her, like, leaving her alone up there for. We didn't know for how long. So it was kind of like a loaded gun to your head, like, you're here or it's over. And doing that. I was just so grateful to be with her and so, like, grateful to actually have a chance. It was like a test run. You got to do a test run and see, like, do I want to be with this person? And we got along, like, way better than I would have thought. And so life here is fairly easy compared to that.

[Theo Von]

Wow.

[Jim Norton]

But easy in a married way. Like, everything people told me about marriage is true. Yeah. Yeah. Sucks. I mean, you know, you got to answer to somebody. Somebody's in your space. Somebody is like, the shit I hang on the walls. Like, I don't like answering to a person. Nobody does.

[Theo Von]

No. Well, I think it's one of the reasons, especially, like, with comedy, you just work for yourself. It's just you up there. There's nobody that's telling you. The crowd tells you it's fine. I'll accept it from a group. I'm not taking it from one person.

[Jim Norton]

Yeah.

[Theo Von]

You know, it's like. Like, it's a total space of complete control.

[Jim Norton]

Yeah. And it's very, like, I like the fact, too, that, like, when you're with someone. Can we talk about our lives on stage? So, like, I've been with women who got so angry at me for the things I said about our personal life. And she. She doesn't care at all, which I love. She loves the stuff I talk about, like, our personal life. No matter how. How embarrassing it is or how personal it is or how intimate, she doesn't care. She's like, great, go ahead. Do whatever you want to do. She doesn't give a fuck.

[Theo Von]

Yeah. I guess if you're cuddling up at night. I mean, both. There's. People have wieners in the.

[Jim Norton]

Yeah, yeah. I mean, I have a wiener. She's like, you know. Yeah. You don't. You don't spend 100 grand on immigration lawyers for a dick smaller than yours.

[Theo Von]

Oh, damn. That's a good point. Oh, yeah. Tara fed Trump. Wow.

[Jim Norton]

Yeah. Yeah, she'll like that. A lot of people get mad. Why does he talk about her? General. Shut up.

[Theo Von]

Do you notice other men, like, if you're around other guys, do you think there's, like, a lot of curious guys who are into that universe that are afraid to talk about it?

[Jim Norton]

Yeah. They ask questions. I never mind, though. Like, I'm not again. And that's why I joke about her the way I do, because she's unbendable with that. She doesn't care. And I don't. I couldn't have married a fragile personality. Like.

[Theo Von]

No, not. You know, you've always been very your own way and, like, aggressively your own way, but also in a kind of. I'm okay with where I'm at.

[Jim Norton]

Right.

[Theo Von]

You've never been in this apologetic way about yourself.

[Jim Norton]

No. And you can't, like, you know, I want. You want people to be respectful to your. Your partner when you introduce them, and everybody's been nice and you don't want people to be dicks. But I don't care what people think. You can't live your life and care what other people think. I have fun with her. She's my favorite person. Like, she's the person I should have married. And do I get guys that are kind of curious? Yes. And I get a tremendous amount of messages from people who are like, hey, man, I'm really glad you talked about that, because I. And I don't talk about it in some serious. Like, nobody wants to be scolded. Nobody wants to be fucking lectured. Yeah. Just be with whoever you like. Like, you know, I mean, and if you're worried about what other people think and you live your life for other people, you're a weak. And then just deal with that fact about yourself.

[Theo Von]

Yeah. I've had moments in my life where I Like, didn't have certain girlfriends, I think, because I thought some of my friends wouldn't be impressed with them.

[Jim Norton]

Maybe we've all been there. Yeah.

[Theo Von]

You know, it just bumps down when I look back at it at certain moments. And not like in a self pity type of way, like, I'm like. But it. When I look back, I'm like, man, I wish I'd. Because in some ways I am my own person. But in ways like that, I think I. I don't know, I had some. I had some tough times with it, kind of.

[Jim Norton]

But growing up, I think it's kind of common too. I mean, you know, I'm a guy in my 50s now, saying this, like, you know, I mean, coming up when you're a real young guy, it's a little bit different. We're more worried about what other people are going to say about us and more like, what if the, like, you know, that whole, that whole tidal wave of disapproval from people, what are they going to say? And after a while, you're like, I've been through it so many times, I just don't care.

[Theo Von]

Yes.

[Jim Norton]

Like, you know, but I've had fighters even ask me, like, like, hey, bro, does she like, like. But asking legitimate. Not trying to. Asking questions they'd be afraid to ask publicly because people would think it was rude. But there are things that they wanted to know.

[Theo Von]

Yeah.

[Jim Norton]

And I never mind answering that stuff. It's not some giant sacred subject, you know, you just talk about it like you talk about anything else.

[Theo Von]

You know, it's so funny. I always think, like, I know you love ufc, and you and Matt. Sarah.

[Jim Norton]

Matt Sarah. Yeah.

[Theo Von]

Have had a show for about a decade now.

[Jim Norton]

About eight or nine years. Yeah. UFC unfiltered. Danny just called me one day. He goes, hey, we're doing a podcast. Matt's gonna do it. You wanna do it? I'm like, okay. He goes, all right. And that's how it was done. So cool. It was just a phone call. And I think it was 2016 we started.

[Theo Von]

And did he fought. He fought George St. Pierre a couple times, didn't he?

[Jim Norton]

He took the title from St. Pierre. He's the last guy to beat St. Pierre. And then George beat him in the rematch and took the title back. But Matt, Matt is probably the most exactly how you think he's gonna be guy I've ever known. He's 100% genuine. There's no. With Matt Serra, like, if he likes you, he loves you, and if he doesn't like you, he can't Pretend he's. He's one of those guys. Like, he can't pretend he likes somebody he doesn't like. I love him. I. I have such a good time with him. He's really funny.

[Theo Von]

That's awesome.

[Jim Norton]

Very grounded guy. And fighters respect him. Like, when fighters call in because he's a legend, I mean, he did the impossible. It's the biggest underdog story in UFC history. So when they. When they come in, they all love talking to Matt. Like, you know, I mean, I'm just kind of there. Yeah. Like, they're like, oh, yeah, you. And then. But Matt. So it's kind of humiliating every week. If you've ever worked with a legend, it's like, really, like, wow. I mean, like, you see the respect he gets from fighters. I'm. I'm happy to see it.

[Theo Von]

One thing that amazes me about ufc, like, I think I. There's a. There's a. Like, a symbioticness between. I feel like, fighters, comedians, strippers, even, like, of trying to show yourself to, like, trying to show something about you to be seen. Right. That's a little bit abnor. Do you. Do you think that makes any sense? A little bit. Like, because I also feel like I relate to some of those people, like, on some kind of a. A level of, like, we're just trying to be seen somehow. I just. I just. For me, it's that way anyway. You know, like, sometimes it's like, fight. Would you think, like, a kid, a young kid, really wants to be out there punching his brains out, or he's just trying to get seen by, like, somebody in his life or some.

[Jim Norton]

You know, I don't know what motivates people. People to fight. Like, some people, like, come out of poverty, and it's just. They see they can do it, and it's a way to make a living. And other people, maybe they just realize they're athletic and they fall into it and they start wrestling? I don't. Honestly, it's a good question. I don't know. I would equate, like, what you said about strippers and comics. Like, there's something about showing people something that most people keep private and wanting them to like it and putting it out there in a way where they can like it and they can relate to that. I definitely see a tie into, like, how do I expose this. This thing in myself or this humiliating factor or this insecurity and get people to look at it and kind of laugh and then go, okay, like, you know, you want people to laugh, right? I don't want people in the crowd going, good point, Jim. You know, no one gives a about that. You know, the applause break doesn't mean anything. Like you want people, they have to laugh. It's first and foremost, you know, you.

[Theo Von]

Almost got an applause break last night. Do you feel that one moment or was like two claps away from an applause?

[Jim Norton]

Oh, dude, I didn't even notice it. Yeah, I did not even notice. I just, I plow straight through and I very rarely get applause breaks, you know what I mean? Maybe because I moved to.

[Theo Von]

I never do either. But then sometimes you see guys. Yeah, I mean, like watching Louie yesterday too. He get. But he's on. He goes into so much. Oh, you're so bizarre. By the end of some of his stories, you're so deep.

[Jim Norton]

It's like, what a great brain. Like watching him. We've been out on the road and we got a bunch more dates coming up and just watching his brain work. Like, each bit is crafted. Like, some of these things are such ludicrous thoughts and then they just wind up. The crowd agrees the thought and they go into this strange area. It's so much fun to watch, like, how creative a stand up can be. Yeah.

[Theo Von]

Yes.

[Jim Norton]

Yeah.

[Theo Von]

And it's so inspiring watching both you guys, man. There's moments where I'm watching the people in the crowd and a lot of times it feels like it's a guy and they usually are holding their girl pretty close. It's kind of like they convince the girl. Oh, it's gonna. We're gonna have a great time. You're gonna love these guys. And they, they're doing extra. Like, I'm gonna put my arm around my girl, make sure she knows we're here together tonight. Even though he can feel them, like maybe really some disdain at some of these.

[Jim Norton]

Oh, yeah.

[Theo Von]

Some of the material.

[Jim Norton]

I feel people pull back sometimes, which is. You know what I mean? I. I talk about certain things. I. I feel people. But that's. That's what it is. It is what it is. You know, I don't one thing I avoid doing. Like, I never preach politics on. It's so boring to lecture the audience.

[Theo Von]

Oh, I agree.

[Jim Norton]

Oh, my God. I don't need to convince them of anything. Yeah. Like, I want them to have a good time and hopefully see it. My point, even if they don't agree with it, I want them to know why I got there and that's it. Like, you can't try to change. No one's gonna walk out of my show. Educated yeah, that's not my job. I blink a lot. I dropped out of high school. No one's coming to me to teach him a lesson.

[Theo Von]

Ice coffee.

[Jim Norton]

Cold coffee. Cold coffee.

[Theo Von]

Dude, you had the one. I don't know if it was in an unconceivable or if was on stage last night. It was about, oh, the military. And some of them aren't mentally well.

[Jim Norton]

That was last night. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Theo Von]

And you're like, that's who we want over there.

[Jim Norton]

You think, I don't want mentally what you would consider mentally healthy. I don't want that to some. Yeah, the nervous college kid creeping around with his little gun. Yeah.

[Theo Von]

I want the completely deranged person.

[Jim Norton]

The crazier you think somebody is, the more likely I want them to be sent over with a weapon. Yeah, you do. You face that. Like. But a lot of it's common sense. Push back against where, like, I think progressives were very crazy. And I also think some of it's bigotry. Like, people look at it like it's just one thing. It's like anything in life. It's. There's, there's. Look at this, then you look at that, then you look at that. Everything is an individual thing to be looked at. There's not one answer that covers all of it.

[Theo Von]

Yeah, I agree. I mean, I'll have people ask me about, how could I, you know, how could I probably lean more conservative in the last election, but then also be a. A Palestine advocate? You know, it's like, I don't see how any of those things are connected. Like, I, I would never attach myself to one specific. Like, so I'm this way for everything. That seems crazy to me.

[Jim Norton]

It's. It's because people are dumb and they masquerade as these real brave truth tellers. But a lot of people are very frightened of pushback from the group that they belong to, so they do everything in lockstep with the group they belong to.

[Theo Von]

That's true.

[Jim Norton]

You mixed feelings about thing. Like, you can, you can be an advocate for Palestine and, And then you can also, like, AOC and you can vote for Trump. Like, you, you can have mixed feelings about things. People just want to say, you're. You're here or you're there, but that's their own fear of being left out alone. They're. They're afraid of being isolated. So they need the group. They're joiners, but they're masquerading as brave truth tellers. It's annoying.

[Theo Von]

This episode is sponsored by Better Hill help. You know, I do this thing where I'll be at the grocery store and I'll just, I'll talk to the butcher like he's my therapist. You know, he'll be back there. He's just, you know, chopping up a chicken brisket or whatever. And I'll be like, I need help. Dang it, I need help. As fun as it is to kind of just toss your problems on anybody when you're looking for actual help about relationships or anxiety or depression or other clinical issues, regular folks may not have all the right answers, but you can get guidance from licensed therapists online with Better Help. BetterHelp has been helping people find their therapist match for over 10 years and have a 4.9 rating out of 1.7 million client session reviews. As the largest online therapy provider in the world, BetterHelp can provide access to mental health professionals with a diverse variety of Expertise. Find the one with better help. Right now, our listeners get 10% off their first month at betterhelp.com t h e o that's betterhelp.com Theo Is pornography causing a problem in your life? Do you find yourself watching porno for longer periods of time and having trouble stopping? Is porn affecting your relationship or dating life? Well, you're certainly not alone. Watching pornography has become so commonplace today and oftentimes men use porn to numb the pain of loneliness, boredom, anxiety and depression. Shame and stigma prevent men from talking about these issues and getting help for them. I want to introduce you to my friend Steve. Steve is the founder of Valor Recovery, a program to help men overcome porn abuse and sexual compulsivity. Steve is a Long term Sexual Recovery member and has personally overcame the emotional and spiritual despair of abusing pornography and has dedicated his life to empowering men to do the same. Steve is an amazing person and he is a close friend of mine. I mean that. Valor Recovery helps men to develop the tools necessary to have a healthier sex life. Their coaches are in Long term recovery and will be your partner, mentor, and spiritual guide to transcend these problematic behaviors. To learn more about Valor Recovery, please Visit them at www.valorrecoverycoaching.com or email them at admin. Valor recovery coaching.com thank you. So since you ended up marrying a trans woman.

[Jim Norton]

Cut that out.

[Theo Von]

Sorry. That's what she said too.

[Jim Norton]

Probably.

[Theo Von]

Cut that off. That's what I was trying to go. It's almost there.

[Jim Norton]

Yeah, I messed it up. Yeah, that's okay. If she wanted to, she could.

[Theo Von]

If you.

[Jim Norton]

I'd miss her. Yeah.

[Theo Von]

Dude, do you think we are getting more like, do you think we're getting more, I don't want to say depraved, but it's more in one view. It'd be depraved if you looked at like these evangelical type of views or like, you know, like people that came over on the Mayflower, like, sexually, they'd see us probably as more depraved.

[Jim Norton]

Sure.

[Theo Von]

But do you feel like we're just evolving or just adjusting into different, more sexual norms?

[Jim Norton]

Yeah, I think so. And it's also like the depravity. Like, I don't believe people's. Like, I don't believe the people, some of them, sure. But the majority of the ones who are scolding and going, oh, it's terror. How could you do that? And then you realize that in D.C. these prostitutes are going, do you know how many of these senators I fuck? Or how many of these congressmen I fuck? Like, so I don't, I don't buy any of it. Like there are people who live that way. But as far as, again, a moral lecture or, or a sexual acceptability lecture from some, I just, I don't believe any of them and I don't respect any of their opinions. But yeah, I think we are more open than we used to be. Sure.

[Theo Von]

Yeah.

[Jim Norton]

I mean, what' considered the norm now is, is different. I mean, back in the Mayflower days, if you were gay, they'd probably hit you with a rod on what they would do. But it wasn't good. They weren't happy to see you.

[Theo Von]

But I bet they had. I bet there was low key, a lot of support for gay men on those boats because you're on the ship.

[Jim Norton]

For a long time in high stockings. I mean, come on, you're gonna tell me. You gonna tell me Miles Standish didn't get his asshole played with? Yeah, I hope that was his name, dude.

[Theo Von]

But yeah, you're telling me you're out there drinking. How many women were on the Mayflower? Let's take a Gantt because that's gonna help.

[Jim Norton]

I'm gonna guess very few. Or none. Oh, or none. I think that's a great point. How many women are on the Mayflower? Probably none of it's probably all men.

[Theo Von]

The number of women. Most sources agree that 18 adult women began the Mayflower journey. Only four or five women. Women were still alive by the spring of 1621.

[Jim Norton]

Oh, my God. I guess there was a long line outside each door.

[Theo Von]

Yeah. Can you imagine that, though?

[Jim Norton]

Yeah.

[Theo Von]

Hiding pregnancy. Three of the Women, Elizabeth Hopkins, Susanna White and Mary Allerton were pregnant during the voyage.

[Jim Norton]

And the crazy part is there's no way to prove whose baby it was back then until it's born and you look at it and go, oh, yeah, it's your baby. Because There was no DNA testing. There was no. So 10 guys, you. And one of them gets you pregnant. Oh, oh, well, God.

[Theo Von]

Can you imagine, though? Guys would just be trying to get you drunk so that they could then go approach your wife. Or they would just be trying to get somebody else. Like some other guys get them and another man so drunk that they could just pretend that they weren't gay for a little while.

[Jim Norton]

For a little while. Yeah. Oh, and have sex with the. The woman. Yeah.

[Theo Von]

Or no. Or no. Jerk off the man or have sex with the man, but just be like, oh, Susanna, just keep saying a woman's name during it or something.

[Jim Norton]

Oh, and pretend like by that point you hope that you wouldn't like. Because if you're a guy, he's got to know that you're enjoying it and vice versa. You hope that you wouldn't have to be thinking about a woman just to convince yourself.

[Theo Von]

But you might be like, what's going on here? You know, like there's some, I'm sure, like astute white males or whatever who are like, you know, in some of these, you know, who are probably getting money from APAC or whatever, who were definitely sl, you know, who are like banging a guy and be like, what's happening here? This is, you know, like a tremors from an earth, like man the windows or something, you know.

[Jim Norton]

Yeah. What's going on there? Yeah, no, I understand what's going on.

[Theo Von]

I'm gonna come in this guy.

[Jim Norton]

Oh my God, how did this happen? I must have fallen veto. Yeah. But yes, in a way you're right because I remember it's fun. When I was a kid, when I first started jerking off, you know, I would always try to think of girls, but sometimes I would think of boys. And if I thought of a boy, I was so filled with shame that when I came, I would throw a woman in there. Like I would like press the button. The last sl slide would be a girl's face like, oh, you're straight. You know, it was such self deluded, like. Right. But yeah, that in that way you're right. It's all about shame and how to. How to stave off the shame you feel about whatever it is.

[Theo Von]

Yeah. And our society does adjust so much of that and. But it is interesting, like you know, I go to recovery meetings. I'm in SLA recovery and stuff like that. And so. And it's interesting because a lot of it's. Intimacy disorders, porn addiction. Like, there's so many things. Like.

[Jim Norton]

Like.

[Theo Von]

You know, a lot of my. I'd be like, come here. Stay away. Like, that was like, I would want some, like, a woman to be close to me, but then when they got close to me, I didn't want them. You know, just like a lot of, like, just. Just anarchy.

[Jim Norton]

It's being addicted to the hunt as well. It's being addicted to the. The lead up to something happening. And then when it's happening, you're right. You're like, get away. Okay, now. Because the lead up was the high. The lead up of the thing. And now that you're here, okay, now it's time for the next. Next drug run, so to speak. Yeah, I. I definitely get that.

[Theo Von]

Yeah. Maybe that's what it was.

[Jim Norton]

Sometimes for me, it was like, I would literally look at hookers all night. I would ride around for hours listening to Art bell on.

[Theo Von]

On NPR.

[Jim Norton]

No, he was on 770 or 660.

[Theo Von]

Was that Russell Ball?

[Jim Norton]

No, no, Art Bell was a guy. He was, like, in Pump, Nevada, and he was, like, very big into con. Like, UFOs. And.

[Theo Von]

Oh, yeah, that's that guy.

[Jim Norton]

He was the best.

[Theo Von]

Oh, and he passed away.

[Jim Norton]

He did die. But I would ride around the meatpacking district and look at prostitutes for hours. I would do the comedy seller and then ride around. But the ritual for me was looking and talking. And most times I wouldn't pick up. I would just ride around and look and be in that space. So a lot of times it's the whole idea of doing something even more than doing it. Like, sometimes you do it, but other times it's just the idea of it.

[Theo Von]

Oh, dude. Yeah. Would there be certain things, like, during the interview process, like with the. When you chat with them, we just kind of say. And you.

[Jim Norton]

You'd.

[Theo Von]

Every now and then, you just hear a certain thing and be like, I'll spend more time with this person.

[Jim Norton]

Oh, well, when I would talk to them, yeah. You know, if I was attracted to them, sure. But if I thought they might be a cop, I was so ritualistic. Like, they would have to approach the left side of my window. Like, there was weird ritualistic things that had to be clicked. Like any addiction, right? There's this weird. This box is checked, that box is checked, and then I can proceed. But if it didn't happen, it Would one box wasn't checked. It would wreck the whole experience. But yeah, that. That whole. That. That's addiction is so crazy. Sex is hard. Like porn. I still struggle with porn. I have a hard time. I go into it. I come out of it. It's hard.

[Theo Von]

I know. I just hate the way that I feel after I notice finally I hate the way I feel the next day after watching. And I just feel a little bit like dissolved. I feel like. Like a. Like the day before I was kind of a bit of a Rubik's cube and all the color that were matching on the sides and everything. And then the next day I just feel kind of broken. And it takes a day for me to get my energy back organized. Kind of.

[Jim Norton]

That's a good way to put it. Dissolve. That's a. That's a really good way to put it. Like you feel. Does like kind. It's. It's a collapsed feeling. Like. And dissolved is the perfect way. You don't feel strong and. And. And whole. You know? And it's not a moral thing. It's just. It's all that weird chemicals from like you. Your own drug administrator.

[Theo Von]

Yeah.

[Jim Norton]

Like when. You know what I mean, I'm sitting there. It's not attractive. Just me twiddling my nips. Chimp.

[Theo Von]

And.

[Jim Norton]

Oh.

[Theo Von]

If you had to watch a video of yourself jerking off for over all the years.

[Jim Norton]

Years.

[Theo Von]

You'd be like, somebody shut this guy down. Somebody put this kid out of his misery.

[Jim Norton]

Yeah. What is he doing? This is long. Yeah. And unpleasant. It'd be like the director's kind of Apocalypse Now. We like. I get why they took that stuff out. We didn't need the fucking dinner with the French people. Sucked. Yeah. If I had. If you had to watch yourself. Jerk. Especially if you could add up all the time. Yeah. The amount of hours or weeks or months, whatever.

[Theo Von]

You quit immediately.

[Jim Norton]

I bet you'd quit immediately. And it is wasted time.

[Theo Von]

Oh yeah.

[Jim Norton]

It really is.

[Theo Von]

Oh, the waste. And. But I would do the same thing. Like, if I would look at like I would get high on cocaine. I would look at hookers online.

[Jim Norton]

Oh, yeah. Yeah.

[Theo Von]

And I would like just be looking. I would look at the photo and I would be like, ah. You know. And then I would barter. I was like, just pour. And I would barter. And then you're. And then. But then when someone would come over, I would often take the money, put it out of the door, give it to them and have them go home. I was too nervous to have somebody like, like in My presence. One time a lady came over and she had. She said that she had to get a brain tumor taken out or something. And I was like, whoa. You know, And I just sat with her for a little while and talked about. Talked about some stuff, and then just. She just went home.

[Jim Norton]

Yeah. Sometimes when you. You also realize, like, they're real people, and then you realize, like, why am I doing this? Like, I used to love talking to women after. Like, I. I used to love the conversation afterwards. Like, after sex or whatever, we just sit and chat, or if I would drop them off, we would talk. And I realized it was just. It's a lot of loneliness. Like, you just lonely and you don't know how else to. To. To meet somebody. I didn't know how to go out and talk to people, so that was a way of meeting people. That shit. I don't miss, like, being married. The one thing I like. Like, I can just call my wife and talk to, like, you know, I mean, like, we actually. It's. It's a nice, stable thing to have in your life. Like a person who you really like and loving somebody. Yeah. Yeah. But, I mean, you have to like them, too. It's not enough to love somebody. Like, you have to like talking to them. Yeah. And you have to enjoy. And we have our dumb dog, and I'll just be on FaceTime with her and the dog, and I'm like, this is the life I want. The dog shits all over. It makes me furious. But it's still a nice life. Yeah. You know, I mean, compared to what was going on before, which was very lonely and isolated.

[Theo Von]

Yeah, it does. It's just interesting. You get kind of, like, trapped in patterns over time. And when you're comedian, it feels like you're. You don't ever have to grow or. I don't know if it's a comedian. I don't know. I've struggled at certain points in my life to grow up. You know, I didn't realize for years that I hadn't been growing up really. I was kind of trapped, I think, for. In, like, a child's ways a lot of times. But they were working out okay because we're in comedy and it's like, you don't have a ton of responsibility. It's all on you. You have to show up. You know, it's like, you know, it felt almost like a kid could do it and.

[Jim Norton]

But also, there's something about that that is good, too. Like, because our impression of somebody growing up and getting older was like, you know, you go up, you retire, you get the gold watch, and then you go into a home and you're finished. Like, there was a process and there was a definitive end at the end of the tunnel. But when you always feel like I don't have to grow up and follow that pattern, you always feel like I don't know what's ahead of me. Like, you don't see the end because.

[Theo Von]

Wait, say that part again. I want to hear it.

[Jim Norton]

You don't feel like you can always see the end. You don't know what's ahead because you're not following the pattern of people growing up.

[Theo Von]

So it makes everything more exciting, you think.

[Jim Norton]

More exciting. Yeah. And you feel like there's an end. Endless amount of time, or. I don't know which direction this is going to go in. That's the terrifying part of doing things the way like your parents do it, is that you see A, B, C, D. But if you're kind of stuck between A and B in some way, you have no idea where you're headed yet. And it still feels like the end is not directly in front of me.

[Theo Von]

And that makes you also continue to feel young because it. It's that same feeling that you always had when you were young.

[Jim Norton]

Yeah, it's kind of. It is. It's a way. And I think it's a healthy way to be. I think. Don't think it's crazy. As long as you're paying your bills and you're. You're decent to the person that you're with. Like, you know, it's a fun life. Like, we. We fought to not have a boss, to not have a retirement age. Like that. This is the dream life. This is what I wanted to do. Sometimes I'll be in a hotel, mad. I'm like, shut up, you. How many of your friends have to get up and go to a warehouse on Tuesday morning? You're mad, you have to drive to Asheville. Shut up. Yeah. Like, you. I mean, this is, like, what you wanted, and you got it. So even with great jobs, there's annoying parts of it.

[Theo Von]

Yeah. That's the truth. And it's fun. It's fun. You're gonna get to go to Asheville. That place is amazing. Did I remember the first time? That's one of true. The. The blessings I think of having worked in this job is like. Like, I got to go to lacrosse. Wisconsin, dude. Blew my mind.

[Jim Norton]

What is it?

[Theo Von]

It's a town in Wisconsin, and it's like this beautiful, like, hill, like, kind of small mountain right on the edge of it. And it's just amazing, man. It's like we were right there like the weekend before Halloween. So you had like all the kids being like brought home from their parents after school and their costumes and the leaves are all fall. It just looked like you couldn't. It was like the perfect place to grow up is what it looked like.

[Jim Norton]

Do you want kids?

[Theo Von]

Yeah, I want to have kids.

[Jim Norton]

You do? Yeah.

[Theo Von]

I just think I would like to do it. I would like. I think it'll help me like just not think about me, you know, you start to get exhausted of yourself.

[Jim Norton]

Yes. And they say that's the one. That's the thing. Kids open up that thing. And I know that by not having kids. And I've never wanted kids. I don't feel like. No, never. Never.

[Theo Von]

Does Nikki want him?

[Jim Norton]

She would love to adopt. She would love to adopt.

[Theo Von]

I could see you getting something cool.

[Jim Norton]

I could see me dying and then her doing that, which is great. I told her, like when I drop dead, do what you want. Sell my stupid Kiss posters and get yourself a kid. But I've never wanted it. I don't feel like I don't dislike kids, but I don't feel it. But when I hear somebody who wants them like that it does supposedly open up a part of you. And everyone I know who has kids says it like it's a good thing. And you start thinking about something other than yourself. And your purpose is other than yourself. Yeah, for me it's. I haven't had that. So maybe that's why I'm half miserable idiot. Just in my 50s on Japanese kiss poster auction. Auction sites like a fucking idiot instead of worrying about my kids soccer game, you know, I mean, maybe that's. Maybe you're right. That's. That's probably. It opens up that parts healthier.

[Theo Von]

Going back to like if you had. If you were able to. If you're. Is there part of you like because you said that if I died, then my wife could go ahead and get. If she wants to get kids and that's fine. Is there a little part of you that's like. That still feels like having a family in a weird way? Like at least I was able to help and support somebody and create an environment for them to have a family. Like in a weird way. Does that make any sense?

[Jim Norton]

No, but it's not. When you say it, it sounds really nice, but it's never occurred to me. Like again, I. I feel like with my wife and a small dog, it's such a different life than I ever had. Like, it's a hundred percent different. But I feel like that's my family.

[Theo Von]

Okay.

[Jim Norton]

There. But you're right, like, I am facilitating for someone to have them if she wants them. Because I tell I'll be dead long before you. Like, so do what you want when I'm dead, I don't care. Sell my shit and, you know, find some young fucking Latin guy and, you know, have a great life. And she would believe me while they were still powdering my face in the casket getting fucked.

[Theo Von]

Dude, they should put a tattoo of you on the guy's back though. That would be kind of nice.

[Jim Norton]

Or on his stomach so she really has to look at it when they're intimate. No, she'll do what she wants. I just never wanted it, man. I don't have anything against it. I respect it. All my friends who do it are happy they did it. I watched Bobby Kelly go like, from being a single guy and then, you know, long term relationship. Son loves, he loves his life like that. Like, it's just not for me. Like, I see it and I'm happy for my friends, but I don't envy it.

[Theo Von]

Yeah.

[Jim Norton]

Do you know what I mean? Like, when I'm around children, I never go like that instinct in me is never. And it doesn't pull me in that direction. Even around my nephews who I love very much. I would love them and hang out with them, but it never made me want to go have a kid.

[Theo Von]

Got it.

[Jim Norton]

But I don't know, maybe that's selfish, right? Maybe I'm a selfish. Maybe.

[Theo Von]

Maybe it's selfish though also to have them. Like, I wouldn't have them just in order to get me out of my own ego jail. That happens sometimes. I mean, I know it's like, yeah, I would like to be able to have like. I think part of me is like, I would like to be able to create a safe experience for a child in the world, world. Because I don't know if I felt like I had that A lot of times I felt like I want to try in my best to fill in some of those holes that I didn't have to because I think our lineage kind of deserves that somewhat. And. And I think since I've really love, love that childhood stuff and a lot of like the emotional side of it, I think I could probably service that pretty well.

[Jim Norton]

Right.

[Theo Von]

So I would like to like respectfully try my hand at that with a woman who is a very loving mom. Mom who wants to be A mom and with a kid who's willing to, you know, be, you know, just be my son or daughter.

[Jim Norton]

Well, you would actually, like, you know, because you have this. Like you said, we don't grow up. There's a lot of time to have fun with a kid, too. Like, you know what I mean? Like, in our life, it does afford us a lot of things that most people can't do. Like, you can book a gig on the road. If you want to go to Hawaii, you book Hawaii. And you could bring your family. Like, most people can't do that.

[Theo Von]

Right.

[Jim Norton]

They have to schedule it around. Like, I'm not doing radio for the first time in 20 years, and it's so weird not having a schedule. It's so weird not going, okay, well, Labor Day, Memorial Day. Like, this is when we get off this. When we don't get off. To just be able to go on the road and do what I want to do is a very foreign feeling. I love it. Yes. And having a kid, you could do that. You could just book a place not to. You know, having a kid and having a radio show with the same thing.

[Theo Von]

But you. Yeah, I don't know. You got to get up early.

[Jim Norton]

Yeah, you're right. It kind of sucks. You kind of don't want to look at the people you're talking to. Yeah, maybe. It's exactly. Having a kid. It's like any other partnership.

[Theo Von]

The food sucks.

[Jim Norton]

The food sucks. Oh, yeah. The hours are kind of annoying. You gotta wake up when you don't want to wake up. You're cranky through most of it. Yeah.

[Theo Von]

Yeah. Your partner's there. Them, you know, it's like.

[Jim Norton]

Yeah, because they made it in before I did. You're like, you're happy to be here, aren't you? Yeah, but I do. I do kind of miss it a little bit. Like, I miss the structure of it, but I also like not. Not having it.

[Theo Von]

Oh, it was so much fun when you guys had. I mean, I only got to go when it was open, actually. I came when it was Jim and Sam, too.

[Jim Norton]

Okay.

[Theo Von]

But I never got to go when Anthony was there.

[Jim Norton]

Yeah.

[Theo Von]

But it was fun. Like, I mean, that was, like, some of the first times I ever got to be in a place where, like, people got to hear my voice that were, like, paying attention.

[Jim Norton]

Yeah.

[Theo Von]

Like, we talked to Bobby Kennedy on that show, which was on you guys show, which was crazy because he and I became friends years later, which was wild.

[Jim Norton]

Was he in studio? Like, I think he was in studio with us. Wasn't he, like. Like, for some reason. Did Robert Kennedy just call in?

[Theo Von]

Called in.

[Jim Norton]

Oh, it was a phone call. I thought I saw a picture of.

[Theo Von]

All of us together, and I'd never heard of him. And I thought he'd been, like, electrocuted or fucking, you know, or people were fucking him while he was talking or whatever. Like, I didn't know what was going on.

[Jim Norton]

Those are really bizarre reasons for the voice. Yeah. Wait, is that him right there?

[Theo Von]

Oh, never mind.

[Jim Norton]

I thought I saw that. That's myself. I can't. I don't have my glasses. And Florentine and Opie and. Yeah, and that's Robert Kennedy. I didn't remember that. Look how skinny I was. No, I know back then I look like a weird Photoshopped version of what I am now.

[Theo Von]

You look almost feminine there, a little bit. Kind of like a white Charlemagne kind of.

[Jim Norton]

That is funny. And he would hate that.

[Theo Von]

He knows I think he's a handsome.

[Jim Norton]

No, no, no. But nobody wants to be Jim Norton, to be like, kind of resemble Jim Norton, but that. You're right. It is like, a little. My. My wife hates me like that. Like, she's like, you fucking look like a little twink. You look sick. I don't like it. She like, you're not a fucking small. You're a medium. She makes me. She never wants me to be like that again, but that's how I want to be. And it does look kind of sickly, like, when I see that, like, my neck, my head, like. And I was so depressed at that point in my life, so I wasn't even happy.

[Theo Von]

You seem like you were doing great. And then Daryl Strawberry. That's the day I came in. So. Coked up.

[Jim Norton]

Were you coked up that day?

[Theo Von]

Oh, bro, that's. That started my.

[Jim Norton]

That.

[Theo Von]

That day I made a story for Ari Shafir's show. And that story, like, that story, like, is when people started paying attention to my comedy.

[Jim Norton]

Oh, really?

[Theo Von]

Yeah. I ended up on. In a taxi cab driving a taxicab high on cocaine. The driver had picked me up. There was a girl in the cab. We're dropping her off. She kind of rejected me. I didn't like, make like. I'm just like. She was laying in my lap. I was trying to, like, give her a kiss, you know, because it feel like she was flirting. She laid in my lap and like, of course. So I like, you know, whatever. And I didn't get. Be aggressive, but she, like, was like, what are you doing? And so then I felt some rejection. She she got dropped off where she was going. It was just me and the driver. And I was like, let's go get some coke. You know, we get some cocaine. And then it was like, next two hours later, I'm driving. He has a hooker. He's bought hookers for us. He's in the back of the taxi. We're up in like, Washington.

[Jim Norton]

Washington Heights.

[Theo Von]

Washington Heights, Yep. And I. I have to be at the radio station the next morning at like 6:30. I get dropped off at my hotel at 5:50, right? It's a couple blocks away. I shower and I walk over there. Dude. And it was the scariest walk ever because every moment of the walk was so scary. And I just was like rattled, right? And I got inside and I sat on the show. I couldn't even talk.

[Jim Norton]

I don't remember.

[Theo Von]

Daryl Strawberry was the guest. And I'd always thought he was like this drug addict. And here he was, pure as a driven snow, sober.

[Jim Norton]

He's clean and sober. I think he still is. I hope he still is. But yeah, he came. Joe Torres told us about him, about the plane going in. That was really bad turbulence and everyone was panicking, but Daryl was reading his Bible in the back. So like, he turned around and like, has this sober life life. And it's weird being up around somebody that's sober. Oh, it's uncomfortable.

[Theo Von]

And I'd always thought he was this way. And I'd always thought I was kind of like toeing the line and do you know, straight. And then it was this moment where everything. And that's when I got into recovery rooms after that.

[Jim Norton]

Really?

[Theo Von]

Yeah, yeah. That was literally the two days after that show.

[Jim Norton]

Like, you know, the Opie and Anthony show was. It was a different thing. Like, it was, you know, and Opie and I did what we could. It's hard to follow the Opie and Athlete show. Like, you know what I mean? It's a hard act to follow, especially when it was uprooted without any one of us wanting it to be uprooted. But, man, I look back at that show and I'm really glad I was a part of that. Like, there was some really funny on that show. Great comics coming through, everyone being vicious to each other. Like, you know what I mean? It was a really. There was a lot of fun times on that show.

[Theo Von]

God, that was so fun. You got. It felt like the luckiest place in the world. There was no better call you could get did at the time in the country, I don't think, than to go on to that show and some people didn't even recognize it. And that's fine them. But to go in there and sit in there with guys. Destefano, Sherrod, Small, Pete Davidson, Mark Norman would be in there. Just like everybody. Vic Henley, like, yeah. Greg Floor. Oh, Jim.

[Jim Norton]

Oh, Jim Florentine.

[Theo Von]

Bad.

[Jim Norton]

Yeah, yeah.

[Theo Von]

Just all those guys, man, that was magical.

[Jim Norton]

It was fun and it was a good. You would see your friends. I mean, the last time I saw Patrice, I remember he was on, he was on, was on O and A. And he was coming in one day and they're like, hey, Patrice is coming in either Thursday or Friday. And we were just having an after show meeting. They're like, do you have any preference? And I remember going, hey, let's do Thursday because I'm traveling Friday, I won't be here. I wanted to see him and he came in and he did the show. That was the last time I saw him. Like, so it's like you saw people that you would not have been likely to see. Yeah, coming through. Friends that were on the road. You would always get to see them. Because I'd come in the studio that I miss a lot being in the center of that, like, you know what I mean? And, you know, everyone. Headlines. So you don't see your friends anymore. You probably go years without seeing guys that you like.

[Theo Von]

Totally.

[Jim Norton]

But, you know, there I would see guys come, come through and yeah, man, I, I, I really, I love those days a lot.

[Theo Von]

It was special.

[Jim Norton]

Yeah, I felt it was.

[Theo Von]

You got to go to. You went to Ozzy's last show?

[Jim Norton]

Yeah, me and Jim Florentine. Who? Florentine got me my first paid gig in comedy. He's my oldest friend in comedy. And we knew Sabbath was doing one more show, so we went to London, in Birmingham, booked a couple gigs just to pay for the trip. Yeah, and we did get to go to the show. I was, I'm so happy we went. Yeah, yeah. We said hello to Ozzy briefly at the end again. He's very frail at that point. Point he was in a wheelchair. But we still got to say hello. And I'm really happy we got to say hi at least. And hey, man, love the show. It was great. Yeah, it was, it was an unbelievable trip. We went to the Black Sabbath house. We did a video where the, you know, you ever see the original Black Sabbath album cover? There's a, a woman in front of this, this ominous house. And we went there and we actually went up and looked inside. It was, it was a really, it Was like, you know, again with your. Your dumb friend, it's like, we should have done this 40 years ago. Yeah. Like, the fact that we did this in our late 50s, we should both be fucking pushed into a ditch. Idiots.

[Theo Von]

Yeah, well, there's also shit you get into on the road. Did you get to see Jack or Kelly or.

[Jim Norton]

Yes, I saw both of them backstage.

[Theo Von]

Awesome.

[Jim Norton]

I don't know. Kelly, she's a sweetheart. And she. She actually, you know, she told me she was getting married and she was very sweet and Jack is always great. And it's funny, the day Ozzy died, I was supposed to be in LA doing Jack's podcast. I was going out after Sabbath to LA for a day to do the podcast. And the day before, whatever, they canceled. They're like, yeah, Ozzy. Ozzy died. So, you know, it sucks. Nobody was expecting it this soon. Did you.

[Theo Von]

Do you feel like. Like, as you get older and people like. Like heroes start to kind of disappear? What is that? Kind of like you.

[Jim Norton]

You do see, it's almost like I look at us like we're on a production line. Like, you know what I mean? Like, going this way, and the more of them that drop off, the end, you're like, oh, my turn is coming. Like. But I also am grateful. Like, it makes you grateful. Like, you get to know people, you get to meet people you love. Who's the biggest hero you've met since you've been doing standup that you actually got to talk to?

[Theo Von]

That's a good question.

[Jim Norton]

Or even the first.

[Theo Von]

Probably Chris Rock, I think, really, like, for comedic hero, for sure. Like, getting to meet him was pretty. I thought was pretty special. Chris Pratt, I really liked getting to meet just because I think there's something really special about him. Like, I think he's a great entertainer, but I. There's something, I think, really special about him.

[Jim Norton]

Are you shocked when they're fans of yours, too? Like, have you had anybody that you.

[Theo Von]

Love who, like Jason Momoa? Like, the other day I was walking through somewhere and this big arm comes out and just pulls me in. It was just like two different areas passed and there was an open door in between.

[Jim Norton]

Yeah.

[Theo Von]

And I was just like, oh, my God, it's. And I thought I said, it's the guy from Shark Tank. Right. I up and he just started laughing. He's like. And he said, whatever show it was, or whatever. But he was just really nice and, like.

[Jim Norton]

And he likes your show.

[Theo Von]

And he just said, hey, man, I'm. I just want to let you know that I'm a fan of yours and. Yeah, yeah. Things like that. Especially, like, if it's sometimes like a male figure, I think it, like. Like, I didn't have a lot of that when I was a kid. I didn't have, like, any male ever, like, being like. Like, you know, I'm a fan of yours or, like, I like what you. You know, I just didn't have any of that energy in my life. And so, like, even little moments like that, like, to me are big, you know, Even Dustin Poirier, he and I becoming friends over the years.

[Jim Norton]

Oh, I love him. I've never. He's one of the few guys in the UFC I haven't met. I love Dustin. Yeah.

[Theo Von]

I mean, he kind of changed my life in some ways of, like, just of, like, you know. You know, like, just checking in, what's up, you know, just little things like that, you know, it makes you.

[Jim Norton]

You.

[Theo Von]

I don't know, like, having, like, a tough figure that. That's, like, you know, I'm looking out for you. Just something Little thing like that, even though it's not even. It just kind of. It. It attaches itself to an old place in me that was missing. Part of a magnet.

[Jim Norton]

Yeah, yeah. 100.

[Theo Von]

And when those click, it, like, makes you feel something.

[Jim Norton]

There's a weird thing, too, when you have figures like that in your life who are checking in on you. There's like, a weird sense of, like, accountability in a way. Like, even though you're not. You're just friends, but you still don't want your friend to say, hey, how you doing? And you, like, you want to at least be doing something good. And. And your friends can keep you somewhat accountable. Like, you know, I mean, and not in the way that, you know, people use it now. Like, you got to be accountable for sad, right? That shitty online gotcha nonsense these children are doing. But I mean, like. Like when. When you're personally just feeling like, I don't want to let this guy down, have him think I'm an right, I'm.

[Theo Von]

Gonna get out of bed today or I'm gonna go do this extra thing. Just little things like that, they. That keep people inspired. And then I think we all do that for each other in some ways, you know, Like, I'll get that feeling sometimes, like, I'm just gonna rattle this off to this person, even if they don't hit me back. That's fine.

[Jim Norton]

That's right.

[Theo Von]

Just let Em know, hey, man, I'm thinking about you. Just let, you know, you know, I think you're great, or I care about you. You're doing great today. Just little things like that, you know? And I think sometimes my brother's like, well, those are things you really wish that people would say to you. And I'm like, that's fine. But I think the feeling I get is that I want to share it with somebody else. So it's. It's still okay, right?

[Jim Norton]

100%. And you're right. And the older you get, and the more people die, like, the more people like that die of natural overdose suicide. I mean, we've all been a. Sure those things happen, but when they start just dying of, like, heart issues or things that, like, are people. Things you're like, oh, so you start telling people you love them more and, like, hey, man, I miss you. Like, I'm not afraid to tell guys, hey, I miss you. Because, like, there's one day you're gonna be like, I wish I could say that to this person. So I say it like, you know what I mean? And I. When Patrice died, he's just an example. There's nothing in our relationship that went unsettled said, like, there's nothing. I wish. Oh, man. I wish he. Like, we had a complete relationship. You know what I mean? Like, with. And you make sure that with your close friends, you have complete relationships. So there's nothing that you go like, oh, my God, for the rest of my life, I'm gonna wish that they knew that I felt this way. Do you know what I mean? Like, and that's really important to me now is, like, these complete relationships. Like, if Bobby. Not to jinx Bobby, but if Bobby or Anthony or one of my clients dropped it, I would. I would. They. They know how I feel, right? We. We. We know. It's. It's not like it went unsaid.

[Theo Von]

Do you ever think over time, like, did you think, like, you were missing relationships like, that when you were younger? Like, were you missing, like, some. Like, do you think people could be, like, missing a connection with, like, a male figure? And then that gets com. That gets. That creates gay curiosity in somebody over time. Does that make any sense to you?

[Jim Norton]

Sure. I mean, what. What creates curiosity in. In anybody identifying? I don't know. Like, that could be one thing that causes it. Like, because you're craving that connection, and all of a sudden you're like, well, there's a sexual component to this, too. Or I want to connect, and I think it's sexual. I don't know exactly what. Like I said, what makes me have a Pull towards something. But there are things like that I think can influence it. Like, if you don't have any male figures in your life and you get close to a male figure, you may love that person and. And then not know, like, wow, is this love? Like, I want to lay down with this person, or is this just a healthy, normal? Yeah, yeah, I love you, man. Like, why do you have gay curiosity?

[Theo Von]

I think there will know the.

[Jim Norton]

Well.

[Theo Von]

Well, there was time in my life where I, like, didn't. Like, I was just definitely like a late bloomer with a lot of like. Like intimacy of any type.

[Jim Norton]

Sure.

[Theo Von]

You know, like, I. Like, I was just talking about this the other day with a friend, but it was like, even now, if a woman, like, looks at me, it's like. Or says something nice. I got to change the subject. I just. It's hard for me to be in that moment.

[Jim Norton]

Right.

[Theo Von]

It's hard for me to be right here and. But yeah, growing up, I just felt like I didn't get a lot of. Like, I didn't have, like, a strong brotherly or fatherly connection. And so, like, when I started to get relationships like that with friends later on, I think it was a part of me for a little bit. It was like, oh, is this like a gay. Like, because I was so desperate for those relationships. So part of me, it had a wager in my head, like, is this a gay thing thing, or is this just a friend thing? And then I had to learn how much can you just be a friend to somebody without kind of over not seeming into a. Like a homosexual, like, space or sexual space, but just like, into where it's awkward for them because you're trying to be too much of a friend because you just have never had that sort of friendship.

[Jim Norton]

Yeah. I mean, but there is a. It's a feeling that there's a definitive, like, emotion. Like, if I love one of my friends, like Bobby or any of these guys, a Voss. Rotten Voss who? I love Colin. I love these guys. I mean, I really love them. And I can hug them and tell them I love you, but there's a moat between that and wanting to peck them on the neck. For sure there is definitive loss. Right. And that's what people a lot of times don't like. Like, any guys who are freaked out by my lifestyle. Like, that's gross. Like, most guys have to understand, like, the idea of me having sex with you is as disgusting to me as it is to you. Like, it makes me nauseous to think about it. Like, any if any of my friends think I want to jerk off with them, they're very delusional. I don't. None of them. I don't care if they're built like Rogan. None of them would I jerk off with.

[Theo Von]

Yeah. Glazing that ham brother.

[Jim Norton]

None them of. Of them. So it's like there is a, there is a line between love and really connecting with a friend and feeling intimate with a buddy. Yeah. Which I'm glad as an adult male I'm allowing myself to do. Like, I'm not afraid of that and, and, and feeling sexual. They're completely different.

[Theo Von]

Yeah.

[Jim Norton]

Things for me. But you know that. So, yeah. There can be a diff. You can love somebody without having any of that stuff.

[Theo Von]

Yeah. And I think you just hear so much like, you know, when you're young, it's like there's, there was always so many, like, you can't say this around a dude or something. A lot of that's kind of changed over the years. Especially me. I'm a pretty emotional dude. And so I like thinking about emotions and I like, you know, I like kind of examining that stuff. But yeah, I think there was probably, there was probably some times where I was like, is this. Am I like. And also I was having so much trouble like, communicating with women. So it also to see, well, maybe I'm gay man. You know, maybe I'm gay, man. And I, but then I, I never felt an attraction to men. And so it was like, like. But I think some of that's pretty normal. I'm amazed at a lot of my friends as I get older that date trans. Prefer to date trans women.

[Jim Norton]

Yeah. You'll, you'll find a lot of people.

[Theo Von]

That it's, it's, it's, it's a, it's a lot more than I ever expected.

[Jim Norton]

Yeah. And it's part of. People think like, what. It's this new thing. But a lot of it is you people are just not hiding anymore.

[Theo Von]

Right.

[Jim Norton]

Or they're just not as afraid of it or they're more aware of it because there's more people who are trans now and there's more like, you know, with, with, with surgeries and estrogen and like, oh, wow, that person looks great. Like, there's so many things people do. It's just, it's a part of the culture and it's not going to go away. Like, I know some people, I understand. Nobody wants an ideology beaten over their head. I get. Yeah. Nobody wants to be told how to feel. I don't Scold people if they don't agree with me, I don't care. Yeah. I have plenty of people I know who I respect and like would find my lifestyle awful. It's always funny because I do a lot of Gutfeld episodes, and when I.

[Theo Von]

Go on, come there one time. He's a nice guy.

[Jim Norton]

He's a great guy. He really. He's a genuine. And he's really funny and he's fair.

[Theo Von]

And Jamie Lisso's on there sometimes, huh?

[Jim Norton]

Jamie's great on that show.

[Theo Von]

Love Jamie.

[Jim Norton]

Tyrus is really great at what. He's just a very naturally funny, good talker.

[Theo Von]

Tyrus is a big guy and he's mixed, right?

[Jim Norton]

He's mixed. He's mixed.

[Theo Von]

He lives in the town that I'm from in Louisiana.

[Jim Norton]

Oh, he is from Louisiana. That's right. He goes home all the time.

[Theo Von]

That's cool. I saw him at the gym one time. Time.

[Jim Norton]

He's inspired me in a way because he lost so much weight recently. Like, it made me get back to the gym. I'm like. And I know for him it's been a struggle. And I'm like, he's doing it. He's putting up videos of himself boxing. I'm like, just get in the gym, dude.

[Theo Von]

He looks like all of the Lion King in one person in a respectable way.

[Jim Norton]

Very intimidating. And Cat. I don't want to leave Cat. Timpa. She's hilarious. It's a great show. So anyway, I do that and they go the road. A lot of those fans don't know me except from that show. It's so I. Nothing I like more than watching the joy just drain from their face when they realize who they've paid to see. Yeah. But, you know, more people, I guess now are more comfortable being themselves because you also. It's. It's like, you know, I mean, I was. When I was a kid, I was. I'm older than you, so in the 70s, I got called a faggot all the time. I got beaten up and chased by older kids for doing little sexual things with boys. The word gets out. He's a like. And it was nasty, so. Wow. It's nice that people aren't being treated that way anymore.

[Theo Von]

I didn't know that you had had that kind of stuff happen. And. Well, I. I think kids got called that. Like, I certainly got called just for being, like, being smart in a neighborhood where it was uncomfortable to know.

[Jim Norton]

Yeah.

[Theo Von]

You know, like, I wish it was.

[Jim Norton]

For that reason, but. No, that's not why they called me that I was nose deep on a belly button. I earned it.

[Theo Von]

Hey, some people call it penis. Some people call it long pussy. You know, that's a new term for.

[Jim Norton]

It, a long pussy.

[Theo Von]

Like, let's just say she's got a long pussy, you know. But dude, yeah, people are such perverts now. Who even. But then also it is crazy because there has been this energy that we've all been following this like astute level of our government and this. But then now you realize, oh, these half these guys are damn pedophiles running around, around skeeting on fucking, you know, kids off the coast of fucking wherever. It's like, what's going on.

[Jim Norton]

That's why I don't believe any of it. Like, they're talking about what the marriage and the sanctity of marriage. And then you find out that person's divorced. It's like, man, I don't, I don't want to hear you weigh in. If you're divorced, shut the fuck up about who can get married because you didn't do it. Right? Like, you know what I mean? Like, I don't believe any of it. It's just like, I don't believe progressives when they're talking about people know, being so pious and the purity checks they put everyone through. It's like, you're full of shit too. All your friends are white. Shut up. Yeah, like, you know, I mean, I don't.

[Theo Von]

That when people are saying that have never lived in the south of how things should be in the South. Fuck you. Calm down. Live in our neighborhoods for a little bit. See what the shit is like. You know, it's the same sometimes with the border stuff. I don't know what it's like to live on the border in Brownsville, Texas. I don't know what people's lives are like right there. I don't know the fears people have when they put their kids to sleep at night. I don't know the fears people have who are trying to come over over who are trying to get their. Give their kids a place where they can go to sleep at night. Like, I don't know what that's like. So, like, I have thoughts about it sometimes, but to really be like so definitive and it's crazy to me.

[Jim Norton]

Well, you, yeah, and because you, you dealing with the immigration with, with Nikki, which again, we did it legally and it's a long pro. The immigration system should be sped up. Like it should be a 24 hour system that's always got people working because it's like your life is ticking away and you're waiting and they're sending paperwork through the US Mail. It's like, Jesus Christ. Like, these are like.

[Theo Von]

Which is just a trap. The mail is basically like handing a letter to a black guy and hoping he takes it where it's supposed to go.

[Jim Norton]

Yeah, just. Here you go. Please bring that to, to the, to the government. This is the request for evidence. Here it is. When there's so much more. It's a government. Anything with the government is not going to be efficient. So immigration, they really should streamline it more and make it. And hire more people like that. Because I understand why people hop the fence, but I don't agree with it because we did it legally. Like, but I'm lucky I could afford a lawyer. Like, a lot of people can't afford attorneys. So I kind of go back and forth with it.

[Theo Von]

Well, it's nuanced, you know, and people get up so, so upset about the ICE thing. But here's what I think people don't understand. We're headed to a. A surveillance state, I believe, in America.

[Jim Norton]

Yeah.

[Theo Von]

Like, they're doing this like their Palantir as this New Deal. They're the same ones that are, like, owning all these drones and operating a lot of these drones in Gaza and stuff.

[Jim Norton]

Their company, right? Palantir, yeah.

[Theo Von]

Allegedly. That are sniping children. I mean, we had a doctor and he said bullets would come straight down it, like from a. But like a succinct shot. So that's the same. Like, you won't be able to be in, like, hypothetically or on paper, illegal person in America in two years. I don't think, because the, the radar will go off. Like, the, the facial recognition will go. You can't do it. So they're getting all the paperwork organized now. They're just taking inventory right now. And I know it's painting painful with the fate.

[Jim Norton]

You're right. The facial recognition. Like, I don't mind it at the airport. Like, I know some people won't let them take the picture, but I show up at the airport sometimes and I did just take a picture of my, My, my stupid face and I just walk through. I love it. Anything that makes my life easier. And I know that so many civil libertarians are come telling me to go myself. You're right. Fine. I don't care. I mean, I'm 57. I just like going on a plane fast. Yeah.

[Theo Von]

Oh, I wish things were different a lot of times. But also, here we are. Right. It's like I can wish things were different. I can romanticize that we're still before 9 11. But that's not where we are right now. We're in this place. But I, I believe that's why all the stuff with ice. So people sometimes are so. Like they shouldn't be doing. I know, I understand people have different feelings, but there's no other way to get to where we're headed by them getting everybody on the books.

[Jim Norton]

And I would like to get people like criminals, once you commit a crime, get out.

[Theo Von]

Like. Yeah. Or hang. I'm. I'm fine with hangings. I'm fine with executions for some people.

[Jim Norton]

Yeah.

[Theo Von]

Not everybody.

[Jim Norton]

No, no, no. But those who really misbehave. Yeah. Although it's funny, I've turned against the death penalty like you, but not. They always say it's cruel and unusual punishment. There's. There's a, there's a line in injustice role where he's talking about something. He goes, in theory it's great, but in practice it sucks. I think in theory the death penalty is a allowable. Like, I don't think it's cruel and unusual. I think people who hurt children and kill children, I'm all for their heads being mushed between two giant pieces of metal. I just don't trust the system enough and I don't trust prosecutors enough to back off. Like, there's so many times that they care more about the record of the office than they do the actual truth. So that's the only reason that's turned against it. It's nothing to do with it being. I think it's a perfectly allowable thing, but our system isn't perfect.

[Theo Von]

That's a good point.

[Jim Norton]

Do you know what I mean?

[Theo Von]

It's like when a coach runs up the score at the end of the game. Like, how do you know that that that prosecutor's office isn't just trying to run up the score because maybe they're trying to make their office look better with so many deals and they're going to sell to a bigger company.

[Jim Norton]

Yeah.

[Theo Von]

You just never know. That's a great point.

[Jim Norton]

And they don't want to pay lawsuits, so there's. I just don't trust the integrity of the people who will look bad if it's overturned. Yeah. And you look back, there's enough prosecutorial misconduct where you're like, ah, not technicality. Not where a guy had bloody underpants in his house, but the search warrant had the wrong date on it. Like, I'm not talking about technical. Yeah, but there are people who legitimately didn't commit the crime. And then you see, like, evidence that wasn't given to their attorneys. Like.

[Theo Von]

Yeah, happens a lot.

[Jim Norton]

I just can't get around a lot of poor people too much more than rich people. That's a good point, too. They, like. So if everyone got the same level of legal representation, it's not what happens, though. Yeah, I don't think it's racial. I think it's, it's money. Like, if you have enough money for great lawyers, you have enough money for great lawyers. Yeah. But if you don't, you get some guy that's overworked who's doing it, you know, because he has to do it pro bono. You're not going to get the level of experts and all these people that can refute evidence. So whatever. That's how I feel about it. But I do think that emotionally, I agree with it. Like, you know, I mean, I get why people. Yeah.

[Theo Von]

What's. Also, it starts to. You start to think, is there bad DNA in the universe?

[Jim Norton]

Sure. You're looking at it.

[Theo Von]

Yeah. This is a.

[Jim Norton]

This is.

[Theo Von]

Dmer'S petri dish over here.

[Jim Norton]

Yeah. There's five foot six of bad DNA.

[Theo Von]

Did you guys ever get to. Did you guys ever get to interview O.J. simpson? Did you guys ever interview a murderer?

[Jim Norton]

Did we ever. I don't, I don't know if he ever. I've interviewed Frank Lucas, who was in. Who was the Moxley.

[Theo Von]

That wasn't that guy.

[Jim Norton]

No, it's American Gangster. That Denzel played him. But there's a moment where he went up and shot somebody, so he might qualify. I'm dying to interview Sammy the Bull. I'm dying to talk to him because I, I. This podcast is fascinating. You know who one of the best guys we ever talked to was? It was this giant cop from Milwaukee. His name was something Kennedy. He was 6 foot 7, and he was the cop who debriefed Jeffrey Dahmer. When they arrested Dahmer and they brought Dahmer to the station house, he's the cop, the detective that Dahmer first talked to. And he said at first he didn't believe him because he was like, yeah, I killed all these people. And then he said he got a call from the scene and like, yeah, with the refrigerator, we found heads. And then he had to go back over it. Yeah.

[Theo Von]

Patrick Kennedy.

[Jim Norton]

Patrick Kennedy, yeah. He died, unfortunately.

[Theo Von]

He looks young.

[Jim Norton]

He was a giant, six foot seven, beast of a man. Very nice guy. But he, and he admitted that when Dahmer died, he got emotional because he had gotten to know him, and he goes. He kind of got a little bit. He cried. He said, when Jeffrey Dahmer was killed because he was a bad guy. But he still, you know, whatever. When you know someone, you know him. But a murderer, that's a good. I don't know.

[Theo Von]

But never O.J. huh?

[Jim Norton]

Never talked to O.J. i corresponded with him once. I sent him a DM trying to get him on the radio show, and he did respond to me, but we never got him on. This was after he got out of jail for. In the Vegas thing.

[Theo Von]

My buddy has a story where they were in New York one night and they were doing some cocaine. And this was after the murders, and. And somebody was like, oh, I don't have a key on me. And O.J. pulled a knife out of his jacket, and they did it off of the knife.

[Jim Norton]

He jimmy the lock?

[Theo Von]

No, he. They just.

[Jim Norton]

Oh, the coke.

[Theo Von]

The coke. They were doing the cocaine, and they pulled the knife out and they did the. And they were all looking at him like it was fucking crazy that he would do that.

[Jim Norton]

Why would you carry that? And the only thing crazier than that is me acting like someone's aunt. What? They couldn't get in the house. What an asshole. How did I miss the point of that? I apologize. I'm stupid. I'm a stupid man. You talk about doing coke, and I'm like, what, did they jimmy the lock? Oh, fucking blithering old idiots. I'm an old man. Yeah, that's. That's a very bizarre. Maybe O.J. had to @ that point, though, because, you know, people had such strong feelings about that. Maybe he was afraid somebody was going to jump out and take a shot at him or attack him. I never met him.

[Theo Von]

Yeah, I don't know. I feel like we had a chance to meet him when he was doing podcasts, and he was getting paid for them for a while.

[Jim Norton]

Yeah.

[Theo Von]

And we didn't buy. We didn't go into that.

[Jim Norton]

I would love to. I met Kevorkian once, but Ron Bennington, I think, interviewed him, and he was there. So I took a picture with Dr. Kevorkian. But I would love to have gotten to talk to him, but I never got to talk to him. Unfortunately, some of them, he's just like, fuck.

[Theo Von]

Did you guys have Trump on your show?

[Jim Norton]

Sometimes he called in a couple of times. Matt and I, for UFC Unfiltered, interviewed Trump. It was before he got the nomination for the. We knew he was going to get it, but it Was, like, immediate. But Biden was president, and he.

[Theo Von]

We.

[Jim Norton]

They. They reached out to us. They're like, do you want to interview President Trump? We're like, yeah. So we went to Vegas and we did it in the. The Trump Hotel. And he was really great. Like, it was a sports interview. Because Dana's like, I don't want this to be politics. This is not a political show. We talked to him for about 40 minutes about boxing and stuff. Boxing, MMA. Because Trump was a great friend to the UFC. He was a tremendous asset to the UFC long before they had what they have now.

[Theo Von]

Dana speaks about that a lot.

[Jim Norton]

His brain, dude. His brain. Whether people love him politically or not doesn't matter. I sat in the room with him. His brain was really sharp. People thought we had cue cards set up because his answers were so on the money. And he remembered every fighter and he remembered every fight, and people like, these guys had Q cards set up, and he was very sharp. So. And he was nice to my wife when I introduced him. So I, I had a great time talking to him.

[Theo Von]

Yeah, you can't.

[Jim Norton]

Not anybody who wins the presidency has some form of charisma.

[Theo Von]

Oh, yeah. I'm always. People like, you had that, dude. What are you talking about? Do you know the street I grew up on? If I didn't interview a president and I had the chance.

[Jim Norton]

Yeah.

[Theo Von]

If I didn't sit with people, whether I agree with them or don't agree with them, like, how the. Am I supposed to know anything about them or get any feeling as a human as to what they may or may not be like or how they operate? If they. Like, I would sit down with the devil, probably, and at least see if I could get a feel for some of his future plans.

[Jim Norton]

Absolutely. And then just. I would keep looking his little cloven feet. Where do you get your shoes from, Dev? But yeah, who. Who wouldn't want to sit with the. Like, again, anyone. I would say. I would. I would show the same respect to Biden or Camel, and any. Any of them I talk to, I would be respectful to and have a nice conversation with. There's this weird line of people. How could you talk to Trump? Shut up.

[Theo Von]

Yeah, shut the up. You don't have the chance to talk to any of these people. And I don't mean that in a negative way, but you.

[Jim Norton]

Yeah, I. I absolutely agree with whoever wants to interview somebody. Why should just the. The quote unquote press have access to people if they're willing to come on and talk? Why wouldn't you talk to me, but then I do.

[Theo Von]

Some of those guys interviewed Netanyahu, and I did not like that, though.

[Jim Norton]

Oh, you didn't? So you had that kind of feeling?

[Theo Von]

Yep. I'm just thinking that out loud. So. So I get, yes, there's a part of me that doesn't really feel that way.

[Jim Norton]

But if you didn't. There's a difference between not liking something.

[Theo Von]

And I wouldn't interview him.

[Jim Norton]

And vocal. You wouldn't, would you? Maybe you could interview and ask some tough questions.

[Theo Von]

I think I would probably try to ask him stuff that really means something to me.

[Jim Norton]

Sure. And that's fair. Like that they know that if you're Netanyahu or your Trump or your Biden, you know that when you go into an interview, part of it might be this guy asking you questions from. From a belief system that is not yours. So you might hear things you don't like. But yeah, that'd be the best thing to do is to interview him and ask him shit that he might not want to answer but that you want to know the answer to.

[Theo Von]

Do you think that's better than not interviewing somebody?

[Jim Norton]

It's personal preference. I mean, I don't think you're wrong to not want to talk to somebody. I think if you go, nah, I'd rather not. I think that's perfectly fair. But I think that part of the thing too is when you're sitting in the room with somebody, no matter who they are, even if you hate them, there is sometimes something about them that you connect to and like, and it becomes harder to hate them again. It doesn't have to be a politician. I've met people like Lauren Boebert. I don't know her. I don't agree with her politics. And I met her once and she was very nice, this Kid Rock's girl.

[Theo Von]

But not his girlfriend, is it?

[Jim Norton]

I don't know. I met her. She was at a Kill Tony event. But she was so nice and I enjoyed chatting with her. And it's like, even if I don't agree with her, I. I don't have the same feelings about her that are bad, like, you know, I mean, because I've met her and she was nice. Oh, for sure. It's harder for me to look at her like just this person who's got no real feelings and no real connection to anything.

[Theo Von]

Oh, yeah, she got them bumpers on her too.

[Jim Norton]

She is quite attractive. Yeah. Yeah, she looks great. I got zero vibes offer, but, I mean, she was, you know, as I shouldn't have.

[Theo Von]

Yeah. It doesn't matter.

[Jim Norton]

But she was nice. So when you meet somebody, sometimes you think you know what they're going to be like, and they wind up impressing you and you're like, it's harder for me to dislike.

[Theo Von]

Right.

[Jim Norton]

But although now you. That's such a controversial issue. I'm not saying you would like the guy, but you know what I mean? Sitting across from him, you may feel differently or you may hate him more.

[Theo Von]

Right? Yeah. There is something about sitting across from somebody or at least sitting across from them. There is some connection of, like, spatial energy of. Of something like that. Like, because you. I think it is human to want to find some commonality with people.

[Jim Norton]

Yeah. You want to find something that. That. That you kind of like. It's funny, we were interviewing one time, Ben Kingsley, and I remember talking to.

[Theo Von]

Is he.

[Jim Norton]

He was in, like, he was in the. Just as an actor. He was in. I think. Did he play Gandhi? He might have played Gandhi. He's been in everything.

[Theo Von]

I mean, Kingsley.

[Jim Norton]

Yeah, he's. He's been. Did he play Gandhi? I could be. He's a very famous actor. He had a great, great. Yeah, he was Gandhi. He's been around.

[Theo Von]

I was in a. Peter Billings later, too. I'm thinking of.

[Jim Norton]

Who's Peter Billingsley? I know that name, too.

[Theo Von]

He is the guy who kissed that pipe and he got tongue stuck on it.

[Jim Norton]

Oh, in the.

[Theo Von]

In the Christmas Story.

[Jim Norton]

Yes. Yes. But we were just talking to Ben Kingsley.

[Theo Von]

Okay.

[Jim Norton]

No, no, I just remember talking to him and he was answering me. And I remember thinking, in any other circumstance, this guy wouldn't spit on me. Like, he would never talk to me.

[Theo Von]

Right.

[Jim Norton]

At a party or at a premiere. But in this weird setting, I'm like, so what about. And he's like, well. And he's like, giving a real answer. And it's such an odd thing, interviewing somebody like people that normally would never acknowledge. You now have to listen to you and actually think about how to answer your question. It's a weird psychology. And I remember that just struck me when I was talking to him because our worlds are so different. Like, he would never talk to me in real life.

[Theo Von]

Got it.

[Jim Norton]

And I've never talked to him again. Right.

[Theo Von]

I see what you're saying.

[Jim Norton]

I can't think of someone I wouldn't interview. But maybe if it was brought up in front of me, I might say, no. Yeah. I can't think of anyone.

[Theo Von]

I think I would just. I start to realize that some people will just use you. They. And you don't Realize it. Like, I used to think, like, everybody just wants to come and they want to have a conversation and stuff. You can learn something about each other. But then some people just want to use. Like, they'll use you to get their message out there. And I think I didn't realize sometimes that that's how things work.

[Jim Norton]

Yes.

[Theo Von]

And so I think I've noticed that more over time. So maybe that would keep me out of certain conversations. You know, it depends. Like with Yahoo.

[Jim Norton]

You afraid that he would just use you to message?

[Theo Von]

I feel like his group is so calculated that they would be able to do it in a way that I wouldn't even maybe see it, you know, I don't know.

[Jim Norton]

I think that all. Anyone in public life, especially in, like, official politicians, Congressman, they all do this thing where they have talking points and they. They're very. They're masters at veering back to a talking point. And when they're bad at it, we hate them. Sometimes they're good at it, and you don't realize they're doing it. But most times we're savvy enough to go, what do you. They're like, look, you know, you'll be like, what about that thing where they did find the dead prostitute in your closet? No, I know, but the thing with the economy is. And they're right back to talking about their. And you're like, you didn't answer the question. That's why so many of them are so hateable. Because I think we've gotten a little bit better at seeing it now for sure. When they're back on their talking. Talking points. Yeah. And that's why. That's why I love the interview that we did with Trump, because it was just. It really was just a conversation about sports. And I would love to have. I wish I had told him how much I love that he talked to Kim Jong Un. I didn't get to say that to him. I wish I had. I just forgot afterwards. But we were saying our goodbyes and he was taking pictures with everybody. And I wish I had told him, like, I love that he went to North Korea and tried. Like, I love that he made an effort with that little, short, weird guy.

[Theo Von]

And be cool, huh? You think UN is cool or what?

[Jim Norton]

If you're a Chicago. Chicago Bull. Yeah. Like, if you played for the Bulls, he's awesome, right? You know, if you're. If your uncle is in the military and made a questionable decision, you're executed. I imagine there's a downside to it. Depends on who you are.

[Theo Von]

Yeah, Duddy looks cool, dude.

[Jim Norton]

He looks interesting to be like, here's what I would think with him. I would be afraid that I'd be in North Korea and there's a language barrier and he would want to toast with alcohol. And I would try to tell them, like, I'm an alcoholic, so I'd have to refuse the drink. And that would start a whole. You insulted the leader thing.

[Theo Von]

Yeah, you wouldn't know. I think sometimes whenever you insulted them, I think that would be kind of. Yeah, something like that could be really mis. Skewed or something, you know, fascinates me.

[Jim Norton]

The Sultan of Brunei, really, who owns, like, the Beverly Hilton. Like, that's like. That's a guy who lives that. That'd be a fun guy to know because he.

[Theo Von]

I might go to Duba Abu Dhabi for UFC in October.

[Jim Norton]

Who's fighting for November.

[Theo Von]

I don't know what the card is.

[Jim Norton]

I see what all the events, like, even if I'm home watching, I'm on the road. They always pant you. You're always there early. I love. You're always there early.

[Theo Von]

Yeah, Well, I just get to see, like, you know, Chris Weidman was fighting on her own. His retirement fight, I think, was fighting on the. I suppose the main. It might have even been the first fight of the main card or something. But, like, I mean, there's just so many great fights. I just can't believe that people aren't there. These are like, guys that are going in there and women that are giving it there. I mean, it's like, where are you?

[Jim Norton]

I wish I scheduled better because they just announced, I think, Jack D. Madeleina and. And Makachev at the. In the Garden in November. And I immediately look at my schedule. I'm in Oregon, and I'm like, nothing against Oregon.

[Theo Von]

No. But it's just hurts.

[Jim Norton]

Yeah. I probably didn't mean to say it right.

[Theo Von]

Yeah.

[Jim Norton]

Oregon, the you dumb state is. I'm coming.

[Theo Von]

What? Oh, you know what one of my favorite conversations was I ever had, honestly, with Louie? It was whenever we chose because we didn't know each other at all. Right.

[Jim Norton]

Right.

[Theo Von]

And we la. Like, we just laughed and got to know each other, and then after that, we became closer. But that was one of my favorite podcasts ever, probably.

[Jim Norton]

He loves you. And it's funny, your name came up while we were traveling, and he's like, he's a really great guy. He just raved about you. I didn't know that he. You were going to be talking to him or I was going to be even. You were going to be seeing him this week. It was a nice surprise. Yeah. He's a special guy. He is. And he's.

[Theo Von]

It'd be hard to be him, I feel like, because he has so many thoughts and he's so able to like, look around the corner of thoughts and possibilities. Like, I mean, really to like ex. Like, it almost feels like it'd be scary to be him. He doesn't make any sense.

[Jim Norton]

No. 100%. Because his brain operates so well. Like, it's such an interesting and unique brain. Like, he helped me fix a joke that I wound up doing in the special he saw me doing at the Cellar. He's like, you might want to say it like this, this. And I did. And it fixed it. It was better. Like, so when you have a guy like that, like he just sees something and he lasers in on it. And the material is so good. His new hour is so good. And he's changing the order every night, trying this, trying that, you know? Yeah, he's. He's brilliant. Man, that word is overused on people. But he truly is brilliant.

[Theo Von]

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[Jim Norton]

Yep.

[Theo Von]

Fancy trees. Symmetry Sauna. The perfect balance of form and function. Learn more about how to get your own premium home sauna from Symmetry sauna@ symmetry sauna.com the I think. Oh, did you grow. You grew up in New Jersey, right?

[Jim Norton]

I did. Central Jersey.

[Theo Von]

Did you get to ever meet James J. Braddock or not?

[Jim Norton]

Who's James J. Braddock?

[Theo Von]

The Cinderella Man.

[Jim Norton]

Never met him. Where. Where's he from in Jersey? We may miss Bergen. No, but that's not that far from me.

[Theo Von]

Joey Diaz used to shovel his driveway.

[Jim Norton]

Is he dead or alive?

[Theo Von]

Joey's alive. But this.

[Jim Norton]

No, I know Joey. Yeah. Yeah.

[Theo Von]

James Braddock is Dead. I mean, look, you got.

[Jim Norton]

But if I didn't know Joey Diaz, that would be sucked. If he was dead, I was like, oh, sorry. I just talked to him.

[Theo Von]

Yeah, Braddock did that. Cinderella Man's the best. You've seen that?

[Jim Norton]

I have. Have I seen that? I don't think I have.

[Theo Von]

Wow.

[Jim Norton]

I don't think I have, no. And I was 6 when he died. I was. I was born in 68.

[Theo Von]

Oh, yeah. I didn't realize he died that early. Oh, you and Nikki gotta watch. Put on some condoms and watch this thing.

[Jim Norton]

Dude, condoms, Forget it. Not before, during, or after our marriage. Will ever use one of those. Boo. Those things.

[Theo Von]

Will it be winded? But. Oh, this is my favorite movie. Movie. I just watched Silver Linings Playbook again. That movie's so good.

[Jim Norton]

That was very good. Yeah. Did De Niro and Bradley Cooper.

[Theo Von]

I always watched Irish. The Irish. Mickey Ward movie, the Fighter.

[Jim Norton]

I don't know if I saw that.

[Theo Von]

Oh, it's so good.

[Jim Norton]

I think we've interviewed Mickey Ward, though, but I don't remember if I see that. Yeah, he was. Yeah, he's still alive, right? He's out. I don't know what he was promoting. UFC guys, by the way, are the nicest of all the athletes to interview.

[Theo Von]

So funny.

[Jim Norton]

I've interviewed. Boxers tend to be a little standoffish, a little too cool for the room. You keep the sunglasses on. But UFC fight, there's a humility to them. And Rogan said it's because, like, they get tapped a lot in the gym. When you're training, you're being submitted and you're submitting. So there's a humility there that you keep, because there's always somebody kind of getting the better of you, and maybe that's what it is. I don't know. But I like those guys the best.

[Theo Von]

I think that makes sense. Oh, yes. Getting to be around some of those guys. Dude, I accidentally called. I called one of the fighters stupid Miochik, and it was not him.

[Jim Norton]

Oh, no.

[Theo Von]

And I asked a woman.

[Jim Norton]

Yep.

[Theo Von]

I asked two UFC employees. I was that Steven? Like, yes, that's him. And I went over to say, hey, and it wasn't. It was John Jacovic Braun.

[Jim Norton]

Yam Blahovic. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Theo Von]

And at. It was just scary for a minute.

[Jim Norton]

Would you say, hey, Stipe? Yeah.

[Theo Von]

I was like, hey, how's the retirement going? And I think he didn't want to. You know, if guy's not retired, he probably want to hear that. And I kind of, like, tickled him. A little, because I know Steve, and it was just tough. But, you know, you win some, you lose some. He did give me a nice look later on that made me feel a little bit better. But just, you got to be careful, like. Yeah, it's funny. Like, it's almost like whenever you get too. Like, you're, like, around a pit bull for a little while at a party, like, oh, now we're buddies.

[Jim Norton]

Yeah.

[Theo Von]

You just want to be a little careful sometimes around those guys.

[Jim Norton]

You want to be a little bit careful because you never know what past trauma you remind them of in a minute when you do something. Something I had. I was in LA one time, many years ago, and I walked up, and it was Patrick Swayze was coming out of a restaurant. So I walked up.

[Theo Von]

Was he handsome?

[Jim Norton]

Very. And I go, dude, I love you. Can we take a picture? I'm like, I'm such a. I'm such a fan, Patrick. And he goes, I'm not Patrick. And it was David Keith, and he was with a date. Whoa. That was embarrassing. That was embarrassing. I thought it was Swayze. It wasn't.

[Theo Von]

Oh, that is heavy. I could see that a little bit.

[Jim Norton]

That was years ago. That looks like Robert Wool, actually. Oh, did I up? I just got nervous.

[Theo Von]

It was Keith David. You mean.

[Jim Norton]

Oh, David. Keith is one's black, one's white. Oh, David Keith. Sorry, did I say Keith David?

[Theo Von]

Click on Keith David.

[Jim Norton]

Keith David's black.

[Theo Von]

If it was him.

[Jim Norton]

Yeah, he was in Platoon. Mr. Swayze. David Keith is white. He was in An Officer and a Gentleman.

[Theo Von]

Dave.

[Jim Norton]

Keith is a great actor. Oh, yeah. I just panicked. Oh, for sure. I was just nervous. Keith David, I met in an airport one time in lax, the coolest guy in history. He's wearing, like, a completely white suit and white coat with a white hat. Guy's just awesome.

[Theo Von]

Yeah.

[Jim Norton]

He was also in that. That Michael Douglas. What was the movie?

[Theo Von]

Platoon?

[Jim Norton]

No, Spartacus. It was a drug movie where the girl. Requiem for a Dream, I think he was in.

[Theo Von]

Oh, that movie was interesting.

[Jim Norton]

Yeah. I think Jared Leto was in that, and he was really. Keith David is tremendous, but in Platoon, you know. Yeah.

[Theo Von]

That was a different time.

[Jim Norton]

Yeah. That's embarrassing. I relate to that. It's humiliating.

[Theo Von]

Yeah. I'm trying to think. I know there's been something like that that I've had, but I think sometimes that is camera. I think sometimes my brain just shuts down.

[Jim Norton]

Do you ever panic or around people like that, like where, like, my brain is not working and I'm just, like, lost, and I'm Like, I know I should be more comfortable, like, but they're famous or whatever it is.

[Theo Von]

Oh, yeah. Johnny Depp came to the Comedy Store one night, and it's still like a moment of lore because it was like, Doug Stanhope brought him.

[Jim Norton]

Yeah.

[Theo Von]

And they were in the green room at the. In the main room, and everybody was in there. And I was like. I got there, and they're like, don't tell anybody Johnny Depp's here. And I knew when they're telling me, I was like, they've told everybody. They're telling me. And so I go back in there, and then all you noted, like, you don't even know who else in the room is, like, 50 people in this little room. And John. And then, like, I got to. Somehow got to say. I said, hello, Mr. Johnny Depp. And then I had nothing else to say, and it was very uncomfortable. And I realized I was just there for me, kind of, and I just got out of there.

[Jim Norton]

Yeah. It's embarrassing because you want to say something, but sometimes a person's famous, and I like their work, but I don't have anything to say to them, like, hey, I admire your work, and. And that's kind of. You know, where do you go from there if you have nothing legitimate to say? And I've. Yeah, I've done that. I've humiliated myself.

[Theo Von]

But they got to be used to it, too. They're like. And some of them will be helpful to you. They'll kind of ask you something to put you back on your feet, you know? Or someone will shake you and be like, you're not a son or whatever, you know, like, no one's ever shaken.

[Jim Norton]

Me and said that. I've. I've tried to say that in the mirror, and I just w up laughing.

[Theo Von]

Jim has a crash chest dummy. It's like one of those battling dummies, but he just uses. Give it uplifting, positive, semi homosexual, like, you're straight, Jim.

[Jim Norton]

Yeah. Now you're not. Get back in there, Jim. You're straight. You can do it. You. It's not scary. It doesn't have teeth. Yeah. No. I. Oh, by. Here's my Johnny Depp story I was at. I got invited to. It was Ozzy's actual 70th birthday party. I got to go to that.

[Theo Von]

Wow. In the US In.

[Jim Norton]

It was in his house in Beverly Hills, and it was amazing. There was a lot of great people there. And Johnny Depp was walking around, and I was talking to him, and he was very nice, and I talked to him three or four different times we took a picture and then I, I realized it was a Johnny Depp impersonator. Stupid, no show biz. Jim Norton. Like my aunt again, I fell for was a Johnny Depp. 20 years younger than Johnny Depp, by the way. And I fucking fell for hook, line and sinker all night. You're over there. I do, I'm like, Johnny Depp. I got a picture. I've gotten Dice got me on the road years ago, we were on the road in like late 90s. He goes, that's Charlie Daniels. So I took a picture with this guy. It was just some fucking hayseed in a cowboy hat. Oh, they got me so good. They got me. One time we were in the airport, it was an Opie and Anthony, Anthony trip. We were going somewhere and one of the Jonas Brothers was talking to his dad. They were traveling. One of the. And I'm not a fan of the Jonas Brothers and I don't know their names, but I'm like, I gotta, I'll take a picture with him. So I walk over and I just start Talking to this 15 year old kid and his dad and I. And I almost wanted to take a picture, if you don't mind. And I look and they're all laughing and I realize it's just some kid with his dad. I creepily approach some 15 year old, they're sitting in the airport eating lunch. And some old blinking pederast looking guy wants a photo with this boy. Ice cough. Oh my God. Cold coffee. And the Faust head. Is this nothing better than her head movements? Oh my God, she looks like the cop in Dog Day Afternoon. But yeah, that was. I've gotten got a few times like that thinking it's a fucking celebrity. It's humiliating, but. But I deserve it.

[Theo Von]

Yeah. And we all need stuff like that, man. It's the stuff like that, that, that just keeps you alive, I feel like.

[Jim Norton]

Yeah. And when you get one of your friends and like I, I do, I do like the ability to like just go like you're an idiot. It's funny.

[Theo Von]

Yeah. To laugh at yourself. And what better thing to hit on a kid and also realize you're not a pedophile profile.

[Jim Norton]

Right? Well, I wasn't, I, I didn't, I didn't think he was cute. I just wanted a picture. I wasn't hitting on him. I did, I didn't say to him, son, if you need to go to the restroom, may I escort? No, I was just trying to take a picture while they ate lunch. Some kiosk at the airport. And the father, they looked at me like, what? And I just happened to see Anthony and the rest of the guys laughing. And I'm like, yeah, yeah, they got me. I'm like, sorry. I just don't want to have my camera out. Out. Jerk off.

[Theo Von]

Oh, my God, dude.

[Jim Norton]

Yeah.

[Theo Von]

Oh, I don't know why that's one of those. For some reason, it's just so perfect. That was one thing I was nice about before. Like, social media and everything. Like, everything was possible. Nobody, in a moment's notice, you'd be like, that's not them. Or, this isn't possible. You could lie to people, but you couldn't lie to. But you could make stuff up. There was so much room for creativity and possibility and everything. Because everybody didn't have all of the, like, high hypothetical answers at the. At the. At their.

[Jim Norton]

All information. Yeah. By looking at. Yeah. Like, I could have just googled them and then seen. I. I imagine I could have at that point either. I was just so thought it'd be so much fun to get a picture with one of the Jonas Brothers. Yeah, I get pictures of people. Don't give a. I stopped doing that now as I'm older, but for a long time I did it. It was fun.

[Theo Von]

And we had so many celebrities coming through your world, too, at one point.

[Jim Norton]

There were a lot. Yeah.

[Theo Von]

I mean, that show was crazy to be in that lobby in that big building. Building in New York, like, especially for young comics. You go there and there's like, it looks like outer space when you get there downstairs the first time, if you haven't been in there and it's those glass. Like, something turns green and it opens it up. But first you have to go talk to somebody who's usually a diversity hire. I'm gonna say it in a suit over there downstairs. And they would call up to somebody magically, somewhere. You would get the thumbs up. They give you a little barcode. And now you're like, you really. The doors open and then bing. And it just. The elevator, like, almost is like, come in here. And then you. And then you go so high to your ears.

[Jim Norton]

Pop.

[Theo Von]

And you get out. And like, Evander Holyfield is in the lobby. Or like Doja Cat or Katy Perry. Everybody's waiting to go into some little enclave to get their voice out to the world. It was crazy.

[Jim Norton]

It was crazy. And. And Stern was right down the hall, too, so he would always have huge. Oh, Yeah, I nailed McCartney coming out of his studio. One time I got a picture with McCartney. That was a big one. Pele. I got like, I've got. If they weren't there for my show, I still would. If they're in the lobby, I'm like, it's fair game. And usually they would take it, you know, because you're in that. It's kind of a closed environment. But yeah, that would, that was one. That was one. That's a good shot with us, too. I've always hated how my dumb neck looks, but. Yeah, because I was doing it for a selfie. And then McCarty goes, Let my guy do it. So I handed it to his security guy. He was actually very nice. And yeah, that's a great, a great shot.

[Theo Von]

That's a pretty good picture, man. It's very risky handing it to someone else too, because you have no control over what they're going to do.

[Jim Norton]

No control. But because Paul suggested it, I knew the guy would do, like, do as he was at. Like, it wasn't like I just handed it to some guy and I'm like, quickly.

[Theo Von]

Yeah.

[Jim Norton]

You know, he asked the guy and he probably knew, like, let me just get the, this weird eggheaded kid out of here and go about my day.

[Theo Von]

Yeah, this is a special needs adult.

[Jim Norton]

It really. Yeah, it is. I, I don't look particularly mentally healthy there. Or handsome.

[Theo Von]

Did you feel like you were handsome when you were a kid or not?

[Jim Norton]

Never.

[Theo Von]

Really?

[Jim Norton]

No. I look back now, I was like, I was a cute little boy. I looked back, I was like, yeah, when I was, I was, I, I get why a lot of the older kids saw my face and deserved that. We should hump that. I, I got it, I got it. I got it.

[Theo Von]

Was there a lot of predators in your neighborhood and.

[Jim Norton]

Nah, we were all in the same age group. There was maybe a couple, but. No, we were. I, I, my therapist tells me I was molested, but I was like, yeah, I was kind of volunteering for it. I was there for it. You know what I mean? Like, I was. Yeah, I don't think so.

[Theo Von]

I was hanging out on the mistletoe type of.

[Jim Norton]

Yeah, I was, I was, I was in on it, you know. Oh, that's me at 17. That's you. That's me at 17. 17.

[Theo Von]

Oh, my God.

[Jim Norton]

Yeah. Young, young urban gym with a lot of attitude.

[Theo Von]

Wow. I did not see this. You look like somebody that would work for Neil Brennan, you know what I'm saying? You look like a black, like, definitely like a young wigger type of child.

[Jim Norton]

Yeah. That, that hat really should have been removed from my Head white with the clockwork orange shirt. I didn't know what I wanted to be.

[Theo Von]

It's a. Yeah, yeah. You're doing a lot of things here.

[Jim Norton]

That's why when I see people. People with these identity crisis, like, with. With the. When. Especially when they're, like, political about it. Whatever. I understand the identity crisis. We all have them.

[Theo Von]

Yeah.

[Jim Norton]

In time. And eventually you grow into who you are.

[Theo Von]

Oh, yeah, dude. I was doing the black thing for. As a while, for a kid. I did the, like, the Nirvana thing. Stone Temple Pilots, you know, I did all the things Marilyn Manson. I went down a lot of different roads. The religious, you know, like, different things. Just like, you were like, yeah, you're trying on.

[Jim Norton]

You're trying stuff on. Like. And that was. I was into, like, the little white kid who thinks he's black. I was doing that long before it was fashionable, like in. In the 80s. Like, you know, when. When Adidas still had fat laces and that was considered. Yeah, but then you grow out of it, and then you just kind of. Somebody said one time, like, instead of looking for who you are, just get rid of all the. That you're not. And whoever you are just shows up. And that kind of made sense. Like, just stop looking for it and just live and you'll find. But I see so many people in life now looking for an identity. That's what so much of the stuff is public. You know what I mean? People that are so adamant, always talk. Always talking about the same thing. Always talking about the same thing. You're like, you want an identity. You just. You're looking to. You want a. A little prefab identity, Like, a little.

[Theo Von]

And do you think there's a way that we can get to know, like, so one of the things you just said is, like, get rid of the things that you're not. Right, sure. Like, yeah. How do we find our identity more? Because I wonder if we used to be better at that. That I feel like if we used to have more of communication with, like, our parents, you know, like back in, like, almost like caveman time, something was there, something more that your identity was kind of shaped with just being able to survive. Right. And now we have this. All this other, like this. All this other fucking ornamentation that helps us get a reflection of ourselves. I just wonder if it was different or if. How do. How do we find our identity better? I wonder.

[Jim Norton]

Well, there's also. Is no. There was less pressure then, because now immediately everybody weighs in, so there's this pressure to weigh in so we don't drown. Like we want to just be above the above sea level. We just want to survive and be noticed and be alive. So there's no time for it. It's almost like that's why people have these again, these almost like big. Like when you see a house being driven down the street on the back of a flatbed, like that prefab, pre built house. That's how people are with politics and with social issues. There's no time to go looking for nuance. And it's like, okay, that's my. That's my. That's. That's why I am. Right? And that's, that's what I'm associated with. Everybody's so afraid of being run over by all of it. So I think just don't, don't listen to what everybody else is saying. I don't give a. What other people think about stuff. I don't begrudge them, but I don't care. Like, I have plenty of friends whose politics I totally disagree with. I don't give a.

[Theo Von]

Did you always have a. Did you have a tough time when you were young, like finding your, like deciding, I'm gonna make my own choice for myself. Can you bring me one more water, Trevin? We'll finish up in a couple minutes.

[Jim Norton]

That's fine. I have to piss.

[Theo Von]

I don't believe we've been going this long.

[Jim Norton]

How long we been talking?

[Theo Von]

Probably two hours.

[Jim Norton]

What?

[Theo Von]

You want to pee really fast?

[Jim Norton]

Can I? Yeah. Cuz I'm loving this chat.

[Theo Von]

There's a bathroom right behind that curtain.

[Jim Norton]

Oh, okay. Awesome, dude.

[Theo Von]

One thing I noticed about having a pee, dude, is as I get older, that kind of is not fun. But here's what I notice is some of these underpants, the stuff on them is too tight. So all night your bladder has to peel pee. Even with just a little bit of.

[Jim Norton]

Liquid in it, it's pressing all night. You're absolutely right. And also the fact getting fatter doesn't help. Like when I fly, I. I hate that feeling pressing on my bladder. I'll fly. Always wear sweatpants and no underwear when I fly. And it's not to be creepy, it's because this way I feel like I'm not as confined as I was. I. I piss constantly. So the fact that I can go for however long we've been talking without peeing. Every time I do Rogan, I gotta pee at least twice. Oh yeah.

[Theo Von]

It's so hard in there.

[Jim Norton]

Yeah. But I'll always just go, I gotta piss. And Usually he does, too, so it's not a big deal. But like, sometimes you just talk right through it and you're like, I have to go to the bathroom. What am I doing?

[Theo Von]

Oh, and like, when you're riding the bag, when you're sleeping at night, you have to pee and you don't get up.

[Jim Norton]

Yep.

[Theo Von]

That mesmerizing dark thing you do. You're like, I'm just gonna lay here.

[Jim Norton]

Have you ever wet the bed as an adult?

[Theo Von]

Oh, no. As a kid, I went to bed. Oh, I went to bed. I was probably 27.

[Jim Norton]

I went once. Last time I did. I know. I've done it more recently than that. I've done it since my wife has been there too. A few times I've wet the bed. Yeah. But I don't care. I don't feel bad. Sam used to think I was crazy. But, like, it happens once in a while.

[Theo Von]

You sleep every night and you pee every day. You don't think they're going to cross paths once in a while?

[Jim Norton]

Yeah. Like two ships passing in the. Once in a while they meet.

[Theo Von]

You think it's crazy.

[Jim Norton]

Yeah. Once in a while you're asleep and you have to piss and you're like, I'm. No. You dream about being in a pool. You dream about it being in the ocean. And you wake up and there's urine on you. And I go right back to sleep. I'll throw a towel on it. Of course. Yeah. I'm not an animal.

[Theo Von]

I'll put a little sawdust on it.

[Jim Norton]

A little something, and I'll lay into it. Yeah.

[Theo Von]

Oh, yeah. But I remember as a kid, I was so scared going to bed that I had to do all these checks and balances in my room because I didn't realize why I wet the bed for so long. And it wasn't like about six months ago, I was remembering. Oh, dude. Well, when you went to bed every night, you would have to, like, look and open a door, look in a closet, look at a certain way, lean something against the door. Door on the inside. Then on the outside, you'd have to, like, look at certain. Like, I. It was. It was no joke. It was probably a 13 minute process every night.

[Jim Norton]

Were you afraid of.

[Theo Von]

I was just afraid of, like, people getting in from outdoors. I was afraid of, like, killers, murders, just these hypothetical kind of boogeymen, you know, and we lived in, like, a kind of scary neighborhood. So I was just. I was just scared of all that. And. But I remember, like, dude, no wonder you slept in fucking crazy Fraud. Fall asleep like this or something. Couldn't cut my throat, I remember.

[Jim Norton]

Really?

[Theo Von]

And it was so funny. I. I didn't for. I forgot about this, but for years I did that and I was like, dude, no wonder you with your hands.

[Jim Norton]

You sleep like that.

[Theo Von]

Yeah, I would sleep like that because I didn't want something to cut my throat. I wanted to cut my hand first so I would know.

[Jim Norton]

Right, right. Yeah, of course.

[Theo Von]

And I don't know what. What made me so scared.

[Jim Norton]

Although if somebody was. Had the wherewithal to get in with a knife, they could have just taken a feather and tickled your nose and then you would have went like that and then they could have just sliced the jugular. There's ways around that. Yeah.

[Theo Von]

I didn't think ahead.

[Jim Norton]

Do you sleep on your back? I can't sleep on my back.

[Theo Von]

No. That's crazy.

[Jim Norton]

Oh, you lay on your side like that.

[Theo Von]

I'll lay on my side.

[Jim Norton]

Okay.

[Theo Von]

That I can do that I feel like is okay. I wanted to talk about Kill Tony. You've been labeled by some as one of the best Kill Tony guests, which is kind of rare because they hate everybody, kind of.

[Jim Norton]

They do, yeah. They're. They're like old ONA fans too. They're just animals.

[Theo Von]

Yeah, they're animals.

[Jim Norton]

They hate everyone. But I think I. I love doing that show.

[Theo Von]

Like, you know, you. You did the Garden?

[Jim Norton]

Yeah, I did. Yeah. It was like a five or six minute standup set.

[Theo Von]

That's cool. It's tough to do there.

[Jim Norton]

It is a different energy man. And I did it last year, but they, they didn't film it for. They just kind of shot it for clips. But when you're doing the panel, I would rat, like at the mothership. I've done the panel a lot and I. I always like to. To give the. If I can give the comics a bit of advice. I try to. Because a lot of those guys are really terrible and a lot of them are really good, but they're just raw. And as a new comic man, I was so easily wounded that if someone like, made it seem like I really had nothing, I probably would have quit. So I always try to like around and if I can say something that helps them, I try to.

[Theo Von]

That's a good point.

[Jim Norton]

Yeah.

[Theo Von]

I think I remember now when you said that. I remember, like, one of the first nights I ever did comedy. Maybe the third or fourth time, like, I started like down in New Orleans and Mark Norman was there, Dane Foshe, a couple. Some. Some local guys, Scotland Green, some different Comedians down there and. But I remember the bartender said, hey, man, you did a good job. And just something like that little kept me coming back for the next two months, you know.

[Jim Norton]

Yeah. Because somebody who. Who's in the know somebody who's in that scene recognized it and went, hey, you're right. The bartender in a comedy club or in a comedy scene, they see everybody. Yeah. So when they like you, you're like, all right, I must be doing something right. Because they see everyone who comes. There was a guy named Rob at Rascals. He was a bartender and he always liked me. And he was always like, yeah, you're really funny, man. And that gave me confidence back then because every comic came through there and the fact that Rob thought I was funny meant something. You know what I mean? Like, that's like. When other comics respect you.

[Theo Von]

Oh, yeah.

[Jim Norton]

You feel like I'm doing something right because the guys that are the hardest to make laugh or the most critical about it, like what I'm doing. Yeah.

[Theo Von]

One night I was coming off stage and Bill Burr said something. I had to go on before him at the Dolby Theater. And I was so nervous. I've never even been on a theater, but stage was before. And I did pretty good, right. It just went good. And I was coming off and he's like, pretty good, man. You know, some. Some little. Even just getting him to. Even. Even if he just spit on my back, it would have. You know.

[Jim Norton]

Yeah.

[Theo Von]

If he didn't come on, one of my lay would have been like, that's.

[Jim Norton]

Thank you. Just multiple migs today. Yeah. Have the.

[Theo Von]

Has the audience stopped cheering Clarice? But yeah, it would have been perfect, dude. But yeah, just. It's so funny. Little things like that. What do you think about Kill Tony and that whole. Like, when you see that, what do you think about. Do you see it as a phenomenon? Like, do you see it as like a chain? Like, what do you think about it?

[Jim Norton]

I think it's great because it gives a lot. The people who badmouth it. It's like. It's really. It's honest. It's like these young guys are getting up on stage, some are brand new, and you're watching this minute process. It's very hard to be funny in a minute. Minute.

[Theo Von]

So hard.

[Jim Norton]

And I love the fact that because Tony is so fast. Like, he really is quick. Like lightning fast. And when he plays with people, sometimes they'll be terrible on stage, but they'll win him over in the interview. So he gives you a shot. You have a Fair shot at kill Tony. No one can interrupt your minute. And during the interview, if you have a comics brain and you're funny, you'll be acknowledged as being funny even if your set wasn't good. I don't feel like there's any bias. Like, hey, we're going to get this guy guy because he thinks this or we're gonna choose that guy because he thinks that.

[Theo Von]

I agree.

[Jim Norton]

I think there's a very. It's a very honest formula. I love doing it and I just have a fun time when I do it. It's so pressure free and it's just fun to fuck around and riff. It's like radio. Like, I love doing that show. Yeah.

[Theo Von]

And you get to be around other guys. Like you're saying, you know, you just get to be around another group of like comics. You're all together. There's the blind guy, there's the. Chris Rogers is doing art, you know, with the like. Or the black guy. They took his eyes out for being black or whatever. Which is. It's like, come on, dude. Those times have changed. But okay. And then Tony is. In a weird way, it's so perfect because Tony's almost always. He's kind of the bad guy. Right. He's the wizard, but he's also the bad guy. Right. Like so, you know, he's like. Because he's so, like he can be so just cutting.

[Jim Norton]

Yes.

[Theo Von]

That in the end he's almost always the bad guy. And yes, some of those people are setting themselves up for complete you. Some of them just want a moment of that pain of being up there. And some of them, they're getting up there to try it and it's. It probably gets a lot of those bugs out of their. Just the nerves out of their system.

[Jim Norton]

Yeah. If you could survive in that. It's a huge stage. Even if you're just doing the mothership, you still know how many people are going to see it. And he's a sniper. Like, you know what I mean? He picks up on everything. But if you're good, if he thinks you're funny, he'll. He won't like go, let me go trash this guy because I have to. He'll acknowledge you as being funny and have a good time talking to you. So I think if you go into it with that and you know, like, hey, it can go either way. I think you're going to have a good time. But I couldn't have done it six months and I would have been fucking terrified to do that show six months In.

[Theo Von]

Oh, it'd have been so crazy. And that just shows you that times are different somehow. I think with people seeing clips of things, the psychology of society changes and how people are able to be something. And I. Like, when I was coming up, I couldn't just. I don't think gone and done that and known that that many people could see it. It would have been way too scary.

[Jim Norton]

Yeah, it would have been terrifying. But the balls on, like, because they see guys, like, all these guys that are coming through. They're all doing well.

[Theo Von]

Yeah.

[Jim Norton]

The ones that have kind of come through. Cam Patterson is doing great.

[Theo Von]

He just made snl.

[Jim Norton]

He did. Okay. I had heard that, but I didn't want to say. I didn't know if they announced it yet.

[Theo Von]

He just took it. Please don't.

[Jim Norton]

Good for Cam. Good. Yeah, I heard that last week. Good for him.

[Theo Von]

Tommy Brennan, Jeremy Culhane, Cam Patterson and Veronica Sl. Slowly Kowska.

[Jim Norton]

Oh, that's great. Good for. Yeah, I'm happy that they. That was official. I congratulate them. I'm like. I won't say, Ari. Maddie is very funny. Christina. Mariani.

[Theo Von]

Lucasina. Mariani is very funny, too. Yeah.

[Jim Norton]

Lucas, there's a very. A good group of people there. And I know I'm Fiona Collie. I'm forgetting some people, so I apologize.

[Theo Von]

But Leona's from here, I think, isn't she? She redheaded?

[Jim Norton]

Yes. I don't know where she's from. She might be.

[Theo Von]

Is she. Does she seem like she's, like, in a wheelchair or whatever?

[Jim Norton]

I did get that impression.

[Theo Von]

Okay.

[Jim Norton]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. She very definitively got that impression when she wheeled in. I wasn't. I said she didn't seem like it. That, like, right now I seem like I'm in a wheelchair. Cause I'm sitting here. But when somebody wheels in, you can say without reservation, that person's in a wheelchair. Sorry.

[Theo Von]

It was just. And blessings, Fiona. She should be on snl. She.

[Jim Norton]

She's great.

[Theo Von]

She and I have actually worked together on the same show a few times. So I just. Yeah, I. Yeah, same. Yeah, definitely.

[Jim Norton]

I like that whole crew. And they're all. They're all nice. Like. Yeah. You see them on the events now, and they're getting real followings. So many of them. So it's not. It's nice to see the. These. These young comics doing really well. And some. Some people. I don't want anybody would begrudge those guys. It's like, there's room for everybody.

[Theo Von]

Like, that's what Rogan always says. And that's one thing that I admire about him the most.

[Jim Norton]

Most.

[Theo Von]

He always says that there's room for everybody. There's room for all of us to lift each other up.

[Jim Norton]

Yeah. Like, I'm not afraid of my spot. And, like, we all. As we get older, you feel like, I suck. I'm worthless. Like, it's. It's. It's just a part of what made me a comic to begin with. I mean, if I had great self esteem, I would not have gotten into this line of work. Yeah, that. That part of me has remained the same. But as far as on other people or trying to keep other people down because of what they say or their belief, it's just such a weak pussy thing to do. It's like, who the fuck cares? Like, I don't care what other guys are talking about on stage, as long as you're not stealing material.

[Theo Von]

Yeah.

[Jim Norton]

Whatever point of view you're talking about, good. Make it funny. Yeah.

[Theo Von]

I don't even have time to think about that.

[Jim Norton]

No, but guys do. You do the joke from the wrong angle. And people like, whoa. And I like because. And it's dishonest when people criticize that. It's not like, hey, I'm old and I can't handle young people being. It's that I think it's dishonest. And, like, attacking other comics for material points of view is a way for you to climb. Socially, it's become one more way to climb the ladder. It's not based. These purity tests are just one more way for people to climb the ladder. They give you a purity test, you fail, they climb a little higher because they gave the test. It's nonsense.

[Theo Von]

But that ladder has fallen so far down in society. I think people are just like, whatever that whole system was for so long is disappearing so much. You know, I think that's why it's. It's like. Yeah. I don't know. People just make their own choices now. Like, who's gonna listen to some article or some. You know, it's like, I believe we're on a space where more and more it feels like people would make their own choices, but maybe not.

[Jim Norton]

You hope so. I mean, and I've never. Like, I never. No one changes my mind. Like, I. I think for myself. Like, everyone can say what they want because I. I think for myself. Like, people will say things about. Like when he says that they'll come after Rogan. Well, what he says is dangerous. And I'm like, well, have you listened to him? And they're Like. Yeah. Did he change your mind? No. Well, then why don't you give everybody that credit? Like, people give themselves the ability to. To. To go through information intelligently, but they think the rest of the public are a bunch of blithering tards who can't do it.

[Theo Von]

Yeah.

[Jim Norton]

And it's like, no, you're not the only one who can sift through information.

[Theo Von]

And some people don't operate, but do not make their decisions from information based on. On the analysis of the information. They base it on how the information makes them feel. And I don't think that those people are necessarily. One is necessarily more right than the other sometimes.

[Jim Norton]

Yeah. And it's hard to kind of, like, just tune it all out. I tried to. I. Like, there was years I didn't check at mentions on Twitter. Like, I just don't. I don't give a. What everybody's talking about. What's this? What does he say about that?

[Theo Von]

Gives a. I don't have time to.

[Jim Norton]

Yeah, I don't. I really don't. I don't care.

[Theo Von]

Yeah.

[Jim Norton]

It's not interesting to me.

[Theo Von]

Yeah.

[Jim Norton]

Like, you know, if it's a friend and I'm talking to him, sure. But do I care who other people vote for? Like, it is of no relevance to me whatsoever.

[Theo Von]

Yeah.

[Jim Norton]

I don't know how people. And, like, if you say something good about Trump, but there's policies he has that I very much disagree with. But, like, you say anything good about, like, he's a. How could you. It's like, shut up.

[Theo Von]

Right.

[Jim Norton]

Take your little identity hat off. Just be a person. Have a conversation.

[Theo Von]

What do you think about this stuff? Like, in D.C. they just had where they. They want to clean up some of these cities, and they're using the National Guard, which I've always thought is like, you know, police are in this tough space where everybody's filming them, and it's like, it feels like they need more support somehow. A lot of cities have become overrun with crime. Trump's use of National Guard in Los Angeles was illegal. Judge rules.

[Jim Norton]

Yeah, I know. Brandon Johnson in Chicago is not for it. He's the worst mayor in the. The country.

[Theo Von]

Is he awful? Chicago's mayor pushes back as Trump administration readies immigration crackdown. Let's see what they say. Chicago's mayor is limited. How much his city's police department can cooperate with federal immigration agents in response to threats from the Trump administration to ramp up immigration enforcement operations in the city. So it's just about immigration.

[Jim Norton]

And, like, they did. I don't know they, they didn't want National Guard helping with immigration. They didn't want to help National Guard with immigration or troops. But if they're just doing it to control crime, it's like crime is. It's a mess.

[Theo Von]

I agree.

[Jim Norton]

As long as they're not interfering with people's comings and goings, if they're just patrolling the streets and giving the police some assistance, you know, most of the people who are against these policies, a lot of them don't live in those neighborhoods. A lot of them can leave their house without being fucking worried about being robbed by somebody selling drugs. So I think if it keeps people safer, as long as you're not infringing on their right to do it. Anything. Yeah. You know, I have a real salt. Look, here's the reality. The most important thing Trump has done is he is. He is honoring Kiss at the Kennedy Center. And I'm going to tell you, there's nothing that has made me happier than any politician has ever done.

[Theo Von]

Is he really doing that?

[Jim Norton]

Gene, Peter, Ace and Paul, the original four members, are being honored at the Kennedy Center. Nothing has made me happier than that. I love him. I love that he did that. I would hug him.

[Theo Von]

I mean, he does a lot of interesting stuff, man. And I hope that some of his plans for the country and stuff are good, you know, Know, like, I hope we see a lot of the things that he, you know, kind of tried to campaign on. And I think it's just really interesting when guys campaign and then when they get in office, I bet things are way different and we don't know what those things are like, you know, But I hope that he has a lot of long term, like, beneficial things for the everyday American.

[Jim Norton]

You know, I bet you Obama was very disappointed, like, because he was like a young, not too tainted by politics guy, but like, he was still a.

[Theo Von]

Relatively young guy, voted for, for him.

[Jim Norton]

And he had all these hopes and dreams and then you get into it and you're like, oh, this is a. There's a lot of muck and glue and things. I bet you that his idealism somehow got squashed a little bit when he saw how it really worked from being deep in it and these things that you think you're gonna fix, you can't.

[Theo Von]

Yeah. What does it say here? What affected Trump's crackdown on crime in Washington, D.C. led to a significant drop in reported violent crime and property crime. It also generated controversy, strains on the legal system, and a dramatic increase in immigration related arrests. Violent crime fell by about 49% compared to the same period the previous year, with overall property crimes and car theft also down by 30 to 40%. I wonder if they're just using this as a ruse, though, for ICE and immigration.

[Jim Norton]

Yeah, I don't know. I think that there's a genuine desire in cities that have really high crime rates to bring it down.

[Theo Von]

Please.

[Jim Norton]

I think people's biggest concern is they want to be able to leave the house. House. People care about abortion. They care about all this. But people want to be able to leave the house and go to work without being hit over the head with a pipe. Like, you know, I mean, there is. There is a really basic desire to want to get in your car without it being stolen at gunpoint. Like these things that we take for granted so many times. Violent crime, to me, because it's such a. An avoidable thing.

[Theo Von]

So avoidable.

[Jim Norton]

It's so avoidable. So if he's using these forces the way he says he's using them, I have no problem with it. And I don't want to see, look, illegal immigrants who are housekeepers, who are just out working, who are. Whatever they're doing, like, they're out building houses. They're out.

[Theo Von]

I have no problem contributing, being some great members of America.

[Jim Norton]

There are people who just want a better life. Like those people. I don't want to see kicked out. I know they're here illegally, but I still have empathy for someone doing that. But as soon as you commit crime, crimes and like, you commit a violent. A felony or even an assault out.

[Theo Von]

Yeah.

[Jim Norton]

I mean, that's it. There should be no second chance. I mean, if you're lucky enough to be here, don't commit violent crimes. I mean, I don't think that's crazy.

[Theo Von]

Yeah. And especially if, as a regular citizen here, if you commit a violent crime that you're held to a certain standard, you know.

[Jim Norton]

Yeah. You're going to jail.

[Theo Von]

Yeah.

[Jim Norton]

You're not being released immediately. Yeah.

[Theo Von]

I think there's a lot of holes. It's. It's tough. I don't know, man. You know, and we just try our best, and you try your best just to show up for yourself. Yourself every day and your new wife and.

[Jim Norton]

Yeah. Not be a bad boy on the road.

[Theo Von]

Yeah.

[Jim Norton]

Talking to her.

[Theo Von]

Is that tough?

[Jim Norton]

It is. Because. Again, but it's not. Like there's one specific thing. It's tough because it's. Addiction is selfish and like, it's. It's about. It's about getting high and it's about feeling that rush. So. So many Times you want to do things just to get away from yourself.

[Theo Von]

Oh, yeah.

[Jim Norton]

Like, I'm not happy with how I look. I'm not.

[Theo Von]

I'm gonna jerk off or I'm gonna. Yeah, yeah.

[Jim Norton]

And I do that too much. I mean, I really do. I mean, up and down the east coast, there are towels that probably should not be used by another person. My apologies to any guest who's drying off and your back gets scraped up because the towel is too, too rough. That's my bad.

[Theo Von]

It's tough times out there.

[Jim Norton]

Yeah, it really is tough times, but it's. It's not, you know, what do they say? I'm not the man I could be or should be, but I'm not the man I was like, you know, my life. Life is better now. I'm happily married. I mean, despite being annoyed at times of being married. I. I love the fact that my wife enjoys when I joke about us on stage. She's not sensitive about, like, you know. I mean, I. I just.

[Theo Von]

Right. You can be free in your relationship.

[Jim Norton]

Yeah, she loves it.

[Theo Von]

And we all send videos of, like, jerking off and stuff like that.

[Jim Norton]

Or.

[Theo Von]

No. Do people do that?

[Jim Norton]

No. I mean, she sent me some nude photos and videos, but that's cool. We live together and, like, that's the one thing when you're married that perverted stuff.

[Theo Von]

Right.

[Jim Norton]

Sometimes. Because you can hook up whenever you want.

[Theo Von]

Right.

[Jim Norton]

But if I asked her for a video jerk at all, she'd probably send it to me. She has in the past.

[Theo Von]

That's nice.

[Jim Norton]

Yeah. Yeah, I'll ask her.

[Theo Von]

Eddie Money showed me some pictures of his new wife one time on a plane.

[Jim Norton]

Nude.

[Theo Von]

Pretty nude.

[Jim Norton]

Whoa. I like Eddie Money. He's dead now, unfortunately.

[Theo Von]

Dude. He said he hit a can of Huff one time so hard that one of his legs. Legs quit working.

[Jim Norton]

Really?

[Theo Von]

Yeah.

[Jim Norton]

He was a fascinating guy. He overdosed. Survived a lot of stuff. Was his wife look good naked?

[Theo Von]

Pretty good.

[Jim Norton]

I'll show you my wife's pain. This if you want me. She wouldn't care. Yeah, she wouldn't care.

[Theo Von]

Oh, dude. Maybe just do a drawing of it for me.

[Jim Norton]

All right.

[Theo Von]

You think?

[Jim Norton]

All right.

[Theo Von]

Just showing. I'll kind of go like this a little.

[Jim Norton]

All right. I won't show it on camera just because.

[Theo Von]

Just show it to me. I don't want to see all of it at once.

[Jim Norton]

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. She's. I. I can't show it all on camera because she's a lady. She wouldn't care for that. No lady wants the penis young. Completely on Camera.

[Theo Von]

Oh, for sure, dude. I don't even want to look at it.

[Jim Norton]

I won't show it to you if you don't look.

[Theo Von]

No, I'm okay. I, like.

[Jim Norton]

Let me see.

[Theo Von]

Hold on.

[Jim Norton]

You can. I won't just. I won't just hit you with it. Yeah.

[Theo Von]

This won't surprise you.

[Jim Norton]

Don't be like, let me find an acceptable photo that she would be. That she would be proud of. Okay, now that she wouldn't like that. That's a video. I'll find one for. For you.

[Theo Von]

Yeah. Take your time. I'm going to think about something else for just a minute.

[Jim Norton]

All right. You want to see?

[Theo Von]

Yeah, hold on.

[Jim Norton]

Okay.

[Theo Von]

Yeah.

[Jim Norton]

Whoa, brother.

[Theo Von]

What the heck? Oh, my God, Jim. Your wife has that.

[Jim Norton]

That's my lady. That's my best gal.

[Theo Von]

Wow. That is a. That is a tall.

[Jim Norton]

She's a tall lady. She's a tall lady.

[Theo Von]

Things in 4H, huh?

[Jim Norton]

Yeah.

[Theo Von]

Oh, you got to spray some Roundup on that.

[Jim Norton]

Yeah. God.

[Theo Von]

Yeah. You got to get back home.

[Jim Norton]

Yeah. I mean, sometimes I need a break. You know what I mean? Your body collects and you're like, I mean, I'll take a little break.

[Theo Von]

You could freaking scratch. You could file your nails down that day.

[Jim Norton]

Yeah. Oh, but it's. But it's funny. It's like. It really is. That's the main difference in the relationship. It's like, compared to other women I've done dated as a person, there's no difference. Like, our life is the same as anybody's life. Thank God she has a sense of humor. I love that she has a sense of humor. I love that you have to have that. Yeah. But some don't. I've dated people who would get mad if I talked about certain things, and I've even gone out with trans girls that would be very mad at me just doing that.

[Theo Von]

So at least she has a good sense of humor.

[Jim Norton]

Man, if she didn't, I wouldn't have done that. Like, I'm around, but.

[Theo Von]

Yeah, that's cr. I mean. Yeah, I wouldn't. I mean, I would never even look at some guy's wiener. But it's a woman's wiener.

[Jim Norton]

Yeah. I mean, I guess it depends on. People look at that differently, too. Like, there's a lot of people that are very anti that label being put on on trans women. But I. I think that, you know, if you. If you spend any time with my wife, it's just. It's not a man's brain, and people are like, dude, just admit it, you're gay. We don't care. I understand why people say that.

[Theo Von]

Yeah.

[Jim Norton]

And I. I really do. Like, I get it. And again, I couldn't prove the point in court because it. My. My partner has a penis. Like, there's no way around that.

[Theo Von]

Yeah.

[Jim Norton]

You know, unless you have a long way to. Time to walk or a small ladder.

[Theo Von]

But, you know, that seemed like a woman's wiener to me.

[Jim Norton]

Well, yes, that's how I look at it. I mean, but. But I understand why people say, just admit you're good. But it's. There's a difference. And I can't describe the difference, but I understand the difference. Difference internally. If I was a homosexual at this age, I would tell people, I don't give a. Like, if.

[Theo Von]

Oh, yeah.

[Jim Norton]

Like, I. It's not a. That I'm running away from saying something that people think I should say. You know, sometimes I miss vaginas. I mean, I like them.

[Theo Von]

Yeah.

[Jim Norton]

But.

[Theo Von]

But hey, here we are.

[Jim Norton]

Here we are. And happy.

[Theo Von]

And happy. There you go, brother. Oh, yeah. That thing is a damn. God, that thing's a damn lunchable. You got going on.

[Jim Norton]

Yeah, yeah. You got to respect it.

[Theo Von]

It's a real meal.

[Jim Norton]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Anyway, everyone's got to respect that. Like, even somebody who's not into that lifestyle would go, you know what? Round of applause. You know.

[Theo Von]

Yeah. Sir.

[Jim Norton]

Yeah.

[Theo Von]

Unconceivable. Is. Is on YouTube now. And always. Thanks for all the entertainment, man. Thanks for welcoming me on your show. Thank you. And giving me a chance to just. Just get to ever even be on a radio show and make it fun and. Or on a podcast. You guys were kind of in that early realm of. It was kind of a hodgepodge in there.

[Jim Norton]

It was. It was. Yeah. I mean, podcast. Amazing. Remember, Mark Marin used to occasionally when he was in town, if he needed a studio to interview someone, he would use our productions to like. We were there at the very, very beginning, and good luck. I didn't see it coming. I mean, I knew it was going to be popular and I had a radio contract, but I didn't. I wish I had jumped on it earlier.

[Theo Von]

Yeah.

[Jim Norton]

But I wasn't allowed to. I had a. I had a exclusivity contract, but whatever. Who gives a. Jim. Yeah, You.

[Theo Von]

Well, you've been. I think you've done the best job of being Jim Norton, man. From an outsider perspective. It's been interesting. You're. I think you're an inspiration for people to try and figure out how to best be themselves. I know it's a journey for everybody. But I think it's cool, man. I think it's interesting. You seem like kind of like a person that's kind of brave in the world.

[Jim Norton]

Well, I appreciate that, but I. It really is. And. And none of my. I haven't lost any friends over my life. Like, you know what I mean? Like, whoever doesn't, Like, I wouldn't. There's no one I wouldn't cut loose.

[Theo Von]

Yeah.

[Jim Norton]

Like. You know what I mean? I have my friends. I have no shame in that part of my life and who I love, like.

[Theo Von]

Oh, yeah. It doesn't seem like it at all.

[Jim Norton]

It's. It's a fun life. Life, so I'm very lucky. I appreciate you having me on, man. I love what you do.

[Theo Von]

Yeah. I gotta come do yours before the end of the year.

[Jim Norton]

Yeah, I would love that. I would really love that.

[Theo Von]

We'll make it happen, man. Thanks, pal. Jim Norton. Thank you so much.

[Jim Norton]

Thank you, Theo. Now I'm just floating on the breeze and I feel I'm falling like these leaves I must be cornerstone oh, but when I reach that ground I'll share this piece of my life out I can feel it in my bones but it's gonna take.