E556 Caleb Hammer

Summary

Podcast Summary: This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von – Episode E556 featuring Caleb Hammer

Podcast Information:

• Title: This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von
• Host: Theo Von
• Guest: Caleb Hammer
• Episode: E556 Caleb Hammer
• Release Date: January 22, 2025
• Description: A discussion on recent events with occasional insights from other days.

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Introduction and Guest Background

In Episode E556 of This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von, host Theo Von welcomes Caleb Hammer, a financial advisor specializing in assisting Generation Z and Millennials. Caleb is also a YouTuber and businessman based in Austin, Texas. Known for his popular show Financial Audit, Caleb helps individuals confront and rectify their poor spending habits.

Notable Quote:

Theo Von [00:00]: "Today's guest is a financial advisor for Generation Z and millennials... Today's guest is Caleb Hammer. Caleb Hammer, man. Thanks for catching up, dude."

Caleb's Financial Struggles and Debt

Caleb opens up about his personal financial struggles during his college years. Opting to major in music composition, Caleb accrued significant debt by maxing out credit cards for expensive instruments and cars. He borrowed from his grandparents and faced high-interest student loans, leading to a cycle of debt and financial instability.

Notable Quote:

Caleb Hammer [03:19]: "We age range in that, like 18 to 35. That's our big group. That's where our metrics are right now."

Journey to Financial Recovery

Caleb recounts his transformation from drowning in debt to achieving financial stability. Moving to Austin marked a turning point where he started prioritizing debt repayment, building an emergency fund, and investing strategically. His sales career, particularly in selling day trading courses, played a significant role in his financial turnaround, although he acknowledges the risks associated with day trading.

Notable Quote:

Caleb Hammer [09:02]: "So that's when I dropped out... I started putting the focus and pointing my money in the right direction, building a budget for the first time."

Challenges Faced by Gen Z and Millennials

Theo and Caleb delve into the financial pressures unique to younger generations. High levels of debt, especially from cars and student loans, are prevalent. Caleb emphasizes that owning a vehicle has become a necessity, trapping many in a cycle of car loans just to secure employment.

Notable Quote:

Caleb Hammer [15:06]: "Cars, man. Cars. Everything's drivable infrastructure here. So you have no choice but to get a car. You need a car to get a job, to pay for the car."

Consumer Debt and Car Ownership

The conversation highlights how car ownership, driven by infrastructure and economic design, forces individuals to take on substantial debt. This debt serves as both a means to employment and a financial burden, creating a dependency that's difficult to escape.

Notable Quote:

Theo Von [15:16]: "What's that? Is there a theory that they did that on purpose? That a lot of that's done on purpose... Can you look up, just see what you find on that?"

Entrepreneurship and Side Hustles

Caleb advocates for entrepreneurship and side hustles as viable paths to financial independence. He discusses various side hustles, from pressure washing to dog walking and video editing, emphasizing the importance of starting small and scaling responsibly without falling into expensive ventures or pyramid schemes.

Notable Quote:

Caleb Hammer [74:37]: "There's nothing wrong with the side hustles either. Kind of like the power wash. A lot of people view that as like a side hustle, hopefully turning into a full hustle at some point."

Cultural Shifts and Infantilization

A significant portion of the discussion centers on the cultural shift towards infantilization, where individuals in their late teens and early twenties perceive themselves as perpetual children. This mindset leads to a lack of financial responsibility, over-reliance on family support, and a vulnerability to predatory schemes.

Notable Quote:

Caleb Hammer [26:28]: "There's something really interesting happening in our culture right now... everyone’s really acting like they're a kid until they're like 25 now."

Media Influence and 'Victim' Mentality

Theo and Caleb critique the rise of a 'victim' mentality amplified by social media platforms like TikTok. This mentality fosters an environment where individuals constantly seek validation for their hardships, often exaggerating or fabricating victimhood to gain attention or sympathy.

Notable Quote:

Caleb Hammer [32:25]: "It's like this enabling... We're seeing it across the board."

Budgeting and Financial Tools

Caleb introduces Simpler Budget, a user-friendly budgeting app designed to help individuals track expenses, manage debt, and set financial goals. He contrasts it with more complex budgeting tools, emphasizing the need for simplicity and accessibility to encourage consistent financial management.

Notable Quote:

Caleb Hammer [89:19]: "Many people struggle with budgeting because it’s so complicated... We provide a simple platform where you can connect your accounts and see where your money is going."

Nepotism and Wealth Flexing

The conversation touches on nepotism and the culture of wealth flexing among millennials and Gen Z. Caleb distinguishes productive financial mentorship from superficial displays of wealth, highlighting how excessive flaunting can undermine genuine financial progress and foster insecurity.

Notable Quote:

Theo Von [94:03]: "Yeah. I just think it's a blessing about having a shitty car... You understand the value of it."

Schemes and Get Rich Quick Programs

Caleb warns against various get-rich-quick schemes proliferating on social media, including dubious ventures like ball python pyramid schemes and multi-level marketing schemes. He underscores the risks associated with such schemes and advocates for disciplined, long-term financial planning over immediate but unsustainable gains.

Notable Quote:

Caleb Hammer [64:05]: "And that kind of goes back to TikTok and YouTube... People want the easy way out."

Conclusion and Final Advice

Wrapping up the episode, Caleb urges listeners to recognize their potential and the opportunities available, despite the daunting financial landscape. He emphasizes the importance of taking responsibility, making informed financial decisions, and leveraging available resources to build a stable financial future.

Notable Quote:

Caleb Hammer [99:13]: "I just want people to realize that they're in a better place than they think they are... There's a lot of opportunity here."

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Key Takeaways:

• Debt Management: Prioritize paying off high-interest debt before investing.
• Budgeting Tools: Utilize simple, accessible budgeting apps to maintain financial control.
• Entrepreneurship: Start with manageable side hustles and scale responsibly.
• Cultural Influence: Be aware of the impact of social media on financial behaviors and mindsets.
• Avoid Schemes: Steer clear of get-rich-quick schemes and focus on sustainable financial practices.
• Empowerment: Encourage self-reliance and informed financial decisions to break the cycle of debt.

Caleb Hammer's insights on Financial Audit provide a blend of personal experience and practical advice, aiming to guide younger generations through the complexities of modern financial challenges.

Transcript

[Theo Von]

Hey there, Ryan Reynolds here. It's a new year and you know what that means. No, not the diet resolutions. A way for us all to try and do a little bit better than we did last year. And my resolution, unlike big wireless, is to not be a raging and raise the price of wireless on you every chance I get. Give it a [e-mail] switch. $45 upfront payment required, equivalent to $15 per month. New customers on first 3 month plan only. Taxes and fees, extra Speed slower above 40 GB on unlimited. See mintmobile.com for details. We have added a second show in Nashville, baby, on May 3rd. It's an early show, 4pm at the Bridgestone arena. And I can't even believe that. And thank you guys so much for all the love and support and honored to be performing here in, in Nashville. We also have tickets remaining for East Lansing, Michigan, Victoria, B.C. in the Canada, College Station, Texas, Gigam, Belton, Texas, Oxford, Mississippi, Tuscaloosa, Alabama, Winnipeg in the Canada and Calgary in the Canada. Get all your [e-mail] t o u R Today's guest is a financial advisor for Generations Z and millennials. He a YouTuber, he's a businessman, and he's based in Austin, Texas, which is where we're taping today. You may have seen his popular show Financial Audit, where he takes people to task over their spending habits. I had a great time learning about him and his world. Today's guest is Caleb Hammer. Caleb Hammer, man. Thanks for catching up, dude.

[Caleb Hammer]

Yeah. What's up, buddy? Nice to meet you.

[Theo Von]

Not much. Yeah, nice to meet you too, man. Hammer. Caleb Hammer. That's a good name.

[Caleb Hammer]

That's powerful.

[Theo Von]

It is. Is that Russian? Hammer? Hammer.

[Caleb Hammer]

I think I'm British and native.

[Theo Von]

Oh, yeah.

[Caleb Hammer]

So a little conquering, you know, of the United States. A little.

[Theo Von]

Oh, wow. Yeah. So no matter what side of the bed you wake up on, you're gonna draw a weapon? Probably.

[Caleb Hammer]

That's right. Yeah.

[Theo Von]

That's wild. Native American. Native American, yeah.

[Caleb Hammer]

Like 25.

[Theo Von]

Oh, that's great. That's a good amount.

[Caleb Hammer]

Yeah. Not, not too heavy, but.

[Theo Von]

Yeah, but chilling. Yeah.

[Caleb Hammer]

Enough to feel a little, Little tan. Oh, a little minority.

[Theo Von]

Yeah. Oh, enough too, to know how to make a good fry bread too, I bet. Yeah, I, I noticed that. So you're kind of this financial guy or financial liaison even to like Gen Z or Millennials. I mean, it could be anyone, but I feel like that's kind of like, it seems to me like that's kind of like the world that you work With.

[Caleb Hammer]

Yeah, that's who got attached to it. We age range in that, like 18 to 35. That's our big group. That's where our metrics are right now.

[Theo Von]

And you're helping people with their finances. Like, what kind of qualified you to become sort of this, this, this, like, person who's offering suggestions to. To others?

[Caleb Hammer]

Yeah. I mean, since the stuff I talk about is so basic, I was a dumbass enough, like, back in the day to overcome all that debt, get control of my spending, learning how to budget, get kind of obsessed with the personal finance space, build a pretty successful net worth before I started YouTube and just sitting down and talking to the people in the worst of the worst since I was there, felt like those are the people I could talk to. Not talking to the. To the Theo Vons, not helping you with your investments, but, you know, we're talking about the lady who has tens of thousands of dollars of credit card debt, some car she can't afford, and getting repoed left and right.

[Theo Von]

Right. Yeah. I mean, I feel like you kind of have this like Jerry Springer meets finances kind of energy, you know, which is. Yeah, it's awesome.

[Caleb Hammer]

We call it Caleb Springer. That's our.

[Theo Von]

Oh, really?

[Caleb Hammer]

Yeah.

[Theo Von]

Oh, I didn't even know that.

[Caleb Hammer]

Yeah.

[Theo Von]

Oh, that's great, man. Yeah, it's. It's. It's super fascinating. But, like, so what was your financial problem? Just so I know, like, you start where you're like, oh, okay, I'm in a bad spot.

[Caleb Hammer]

College was. I was so dumb in college, man. Just starting to go into it. I was going into a major that wasn't going to make any money. I wanted to go into music. And of course, if you're going to go into music, you have to have like a $50,000 computer or whatever. It's some nice, beautiful imac. So max out a credit card with that. Got to have an electric piano. You got to be cool, you know, you got to be like the other music majors. Max out a credit card with that. Why cook when you're tired? From school to McDonald's every day. And that's before I was even a fat. Like, you know, the. I was able to consume those and still be skinny, but max out a credit card with that. Got to get around. So I maxed out. I got like a 10, $11,000 car loan, but I couldn't afford the down payment. Of course, I didn't know anything about money, so I borrowed like $5,000 from the grandparents just to get a down payment on a car. It's the same stuff we're seeing on the show.

[Theo Von]

So you were just in a bad spot.

[Caleb Hammer]

Bad spot. Private student loans too, man, it was rough.

[Theo Von]

And had you been getting advice from anybody or, or you were just.

[Caleb Hammer]

No, this was generational. My parents, even though they are better now, I'll give them credit there. You know, we grew up definitely lower middle class foreclosure notices, that kind of stuff. And at that point, when the people who would teach you about that kind of stuff, because our school system really doesn't, at least in Michigan and I don't think Texas either, at that point you rely on them to teach you, but they didn't know anything. So I was just continuing that cycles. Every time you see people coming from a lower middle class background or a poverty background says that endless cycle because you can't learn from anywhere and you have to get that drive somehow.

[Theo Von]

Right? That's a great point. Yeah. I was always kind of amazed that they didn't teach us in school. Like, if you didn't have a strategy, like they would have people come for like parents would come or people with like people in our community that had jobs would come and talk to us. But they never had like people that had really up, you know, they never had like a crack at it come and talk to the class for 20 minutes and be like, this is how this happened. Right. Or they never had anybody that was selling leg or selling cooter or whatever on the street tell you know, like, hey, this is how things fell apart. Like, they never had that other side of somebody who was like in a second bankruptcy or somebody who'd been abused in a marriage. You know, it's like you never really got. You always just got the, like, I'm a fireman, you know, like, and the kids would be like awesome, you know, and the guy would let you play with his axe or whatever. It's like. But you never got like the other side of it. It's kind of crazy that they don't have that just in like kind of elementary education, you know.

[Caleb Hammer]

Dude, it's crazy. I think it's like a one week subject and the class where they also spend like two weeks showing you birthing videos.

[Theo Von]

Yeah.

[Caleb Hammer]

You know, this is something that passes over real quick.

[Theo Von]

Okay, so you were bad off.

[Caleb Hammer]

Real bad.

[Theo Von]

And how did you get on bad off?

[Caleb Hammer]

I just started becoming obsessed with. Well, I was always interested in the world of real estate. So like hgtv. I. I ate that up. I don't know why this is that weird kid who loved hgtv. So, you know, the. All the different home shows. I was interested in real estate, and that's kind of just a decent connection and segue over to personal finances. So eventually, once I started realizing yo can't afford rent, I started just googling some things and I found some other creators, some other podcast like Bigger Pockets. Podcast is really good. I think I started Bigger Pockets, it's called. Yeah, it's really good. Those in real estate. Do you know Graham Stephan, Finance YouTuber?

[Theo Von]

Let's see a picture of him. Yeah, little, little short dude, Graham Stephan. Nope, I don't know him.

[Caleb Hammer]

He's one of the OG finance YouTubers. And I think I started watching him when he was up and coming. I was like, wow, I can't believe how absolutely stupid I am with finances. I even know there was this other world and to accomplish the things I dream of accomplishing, going to take actually marking the goals I want to get to in the different steps that are required to get there. And that's where I started to actually focus on building the income, not just the hobby stuff. You know, I was doing music composition and, you know, I was making like $30,000 a year off of that in college and dropped out of college. But from there I just knew I had to go get stronger income, actually build myself a budget. And that's when I started, you know, looking to move in different areas and I got a connection down in Austin. And that's when, like, I actually started putting the focus and pointing my money in the right direction, building a budget for the first time. And it's been. It's been good since then.

[Theo Von]

Yeah. Okay, so you started to put your money back together like you started. I mean, did you pay off some of those things? Did you get rid of the car? You said you dropped out of school, so.

[Caleb Hammer]

Yeah.

[Theo Von]

I'm assuming that you just realized it wasn't for you or.

[Caleb Hammer]

Okay, it's gonna sound like the most arrogant, cunty thing ever, and. But, like, I was actually making more on my music compositions than my own professors did on their own composition. So I was like, why am I spending more money to go in school?

[Theo Von]

Okay.

[Caleb Hammer]

So that's when I dropped out.

[Theo Von]

Okay. You already felt you, like, you'd kind of been able to learn what they were going to teach you over a course of a long time, kind of.

[Caleb Hammer]

I mean, I. I like the lessons and stuff, but then I still had to go to all these other classes that don't matter, and I had to spend money on that.

[Theo Von]

Right.

[Caleb Hammer]

Or at least things that were going for the degree. But at that point, I still knew nothing about personal finances. Once I moved to Austin, I wanted to get a job that focused on me being my own business. Essentially, that's what I was doing with music composition. And one of the best jobs that just like, you and I could go get today if we wanted to. Where your own business is sales.

[Theo Von]

Okay.

[Caleb Hammer]

You know, you are your business. You're out there building the client base, and that's what I ended up doing. And with that, I reached the top of the sales team immediately.

[Theo Von]

Selling?

[Caleb Hammer]

Yeah, selling. It was trading education, you know, like stock trading and some memberships and stuff like that.

[Theo Von]

Okay. So, no, I'm not. I'm not familiar with what you're talking about.

[Caleb Hammer]

Like, stock market.

[Theo Von]

Okay, do it. So you became an investor?

[Caleb Hammer]

No, I was selling classes that taught people how to become day traders and stuff.

[Theo Von]

Okay. So day trading courses.

[Caleb Hammer]

Really bad products. I'll be honest. But really, you know, I just had to. You know, I was taking the job that would hire.

[Theo Von]

Okay, so the. But the. The actual product wasn't a good product or just. You thought it was.

[Caleb Hammer]

It was fine. Just. People shouldn't be day traders. That's the thing.

[Theo Von]

Oh, I see.

[Caleb Hammer]

It's like 90% lose money. It's not that the people that were teaching it were bad or the education itself was bad. It's just like, that's probably too risky for your average person to get into.

[Theo Von]

So it's just a risky thing to get into.

[Caleb Hammer]

Risky to get into. But luckily, the people I was selling to, they were with people with too much money, too much time.

[Theo Von]

So they were.

[Caleb Hammer]

Yeah. It wasn't like you were selling it.

[Theo Von]

To children or whatever.

[Caleb Hammer]

No.

[Theo Von]

Okay.

[Caleb Hammer]

No. Especially since, I mean, I think you have to be 18 to open a brokerage, if I'm. Or at least to open those kind of accounts, if I'm not mistaken. But actually being able to build that, like, personal business, personal brands, and getting to the top of the sales team, eventually getting the place, you know, bringing in six figures. Wow. Grinding. For a couple years, I focused on paying off the p. My grandparents first because it was family debt. It's a little emotional. That's probably not what I would necessarily suggest today to people that I'm talking to, but that's what felt right in that moment. And then the credit card is what.

[Theo Von]

Paying off your grandparents, you mean?

[Caleb Hammer]

Absolutely.

[Theo Von]

Well, yeah, because you have to see them. You still have to answer their calls, and you have to hear the. The timber in your grandmother's voice. You Know, knowing that they're concerned about their future because they're missing a little bit of their ne.

[Caleb Hammer]

Exactly, exactly. And they were nice enough to give me that money in a hard time, I got to be nice enough to prioritize paying it back.

[Theo Von]

Right.

[Caleb Hammer]

And then the 30% couple. 30% credit cards I had from there, about 10,000 hours total in credit card debt. And then Sallie Mae, you know that bitch?

[Theo Von]

Oh, yeah, the loan specialist.

[Caleb Hammer]

Yeah. No, she's not. She's not Great. So I had some like 12% interest private student loan debt, maybe 15%. It just kept ballooning. So I focus on paying that off after that.

[Theo Von]

But those are private ones. Right. So there's. There's ones you get from the state that are lower percentage. Okay, yep.

[Caleb Hammer]

I had federal backed student loans. I still do because I'm not going to pay them off because they're only 4% and actually mine are like 3%. So I'd rather invest instead.

[Theo Von]

Right.

[Caleb Hammer]

So I'm just doing my minimum monthlies there. But yeah, so because Sally and her 15% were just so crappy, I focused on paying those off next. And, and then eventually my car debt as well because that was also like 11% for a Nissan Altima 2013. I don't know if you're a Nissan Altima girly, but their transmissions, they all die immediately. So it was like 60,000 miles and the transmission was dying, so. And I already owed debt on it.

[Theo Von]

Oh, yeah. Ultima is definitely. A lot of Latinos would drive them. I know. And then my ex girlfriend drove one. Oh, okay. So. So you started to get out of debt. You got some, you got some money going. You found out that, okay, you realize maybe this, the direction you were going in in school wasn't for you. It sound like you started to make some kind of like severe choices, right?

[Caleb Hammer]

Yeah, big life choices. Moving across the country, packing up the sedan. You know, going from Michigan to Texas. I guess it's not across the country, but it was a big move for me and focus on paying off that debt. And that's once I got my emergency fund, which is what we prioritize. After paying off high interest debt, that's where I was like, I can finally start accomplishing the dreams I wanted to. I was putting 10% down on a house here in Austin.

[Theo Von]

Oh, wow.

[Caleb Hammer]

And that was my big goal.

[Theo Von]

And were you still doing sales at that point?

[Caleb Hammer]

Yes, yes, I was still doing sales. And I started moving in the world of like product management and the tech world.

[Theo Von]

But like, what does that Mean, so.

[Caleb Hammer]

It was kind of like fake product manager, I'll be honest, for all those that know product managing out there. But I was like overseeing memberships at that company that I was talking about and trying to improve their products. And I was just kind of overseeing that, working with different teams. But, okay, I was transitioning to that world because again, I just like the, I like running some things. That's why I like building out the company that we have now and having management of our products and just making a better experience for the clients.

[Theo Von]

Okay, and is the product you sell now to people, is that a more helpful product, you think than the first one, the, the other.

[Caleb Hammer]

Oh, absolutely.

[Theo Von]

Day trading stuff.

[Caleb Hammer]

Yeah. Because what we're doing now, like our simpler budget app, like that is an app that people can use and actually follow a budget hit the goals that they're trying to do. It's things that actually help people instead of like, hey, there's a 10 chance you might be successful in field. Good luck.

[Theo Von]

Right.

[Caleb Hammer]

That was kind of the products back then, but yeah. So people can actually, you know, finally take control over their destiny.

[Theo Von]

Okay, what is I, I. You talk a lot. Okay. So I feel like I have a decent understanding now of how you kind of got to where you are. Right. Like a lot of it sounds like you're like, okay, college isn't for me. I need to change that. These are the high interest things that I need to, I need to, I need to get a job or find a field. You found sales. It's working well for me.

[Caleb Hammer]

So.

[Theo Von]

And then I need to find out the specific, the higher interest things I need to get out of those first, the lower interest things I can keep. Because if I can invest at a slightly higher interest rate, then I'm going to be hypothetically or hopefully paying those off over time, assuming I can make more than the 3 or 4%.

[Caleb Hammer]

Exactly.

[Theo Von]

Okay, so now you, now you have a YouTube channel where you kind of talk, it seems like, to a lot of, like Gen Z. Is that kind of safe to say?

[Caleb Hammer]

Gen Z, Millennial.

[Theo Von]

Okay, what is the number one thing that they are going into debt over now in America?

[Caleb Hammer]

Cars, man. Cars. Everything's drivable infrastructure here. So you have no choice but to get a car. You need a car to get a job, to pay for the car.

[Theo Von]

Right. They kind of locked us into that, huh?

[Caleb Hammer]

Yeah.

[Theo Von]

What's that? Is there a theory that they, that they did that on purpose? That a lot of that's done on purpose, you think that we had, that they created like this Car economy. Can you look up, just see what you find on that?

[Caleb Hammer]

Well, I know in the 1950s. Right. That's where they start passing like the highway infrastructure bill and that. It's a lot of it for inner intercontinental connection, especially for military safety, being able to move things back and forth across cities. But with that, they came into the cities like Dallas and Houston and la and they bulldozed massive communities and just built highways throughout. Then he had white flight from the cities to the suburbs. And then in order to get to the city where the jobs are, got to drive on the highway and it's a cycle from there.

[Theo Von]

Yeah, I think you pretty much just answered it. That's what it seems like a lot of that is. It was like, yeah, people wanted to also live in the suburbs. They didn't want to be in the place maybe. Right. You know, in a. Around a bunch of building stuff, you want to have a yard, you want to have a little bit more space.

[Caleb Hammer]

And cities went to after that too. It really did.

[Theo Von]

Yeah.

[Caleb Hammer]

Whether it's funding or just the job opportunities, like they went to like New York in the 80s was a. Right. So that's.

[Theo Von]

Yeah, yeah. And then I think you have a lot of people, like, if people want to have a yard and want to have an environment they take care of, then they kind of. If they take that energy out of the city, then that's not in the city anymore.

[Caleb Hammer]

People want to live in the city now, though, people are giving up their car and in my age range, you know, and the audience's age range, they want to live in those more walkable communities. I move into a walkable community. I love to not have to drive.

[Theo Von]

Yeah, it's a nightmare. Yeah. Kind of like my parents. It was the thing where they wanted to drive into work and drive home. That was part of like the commute, you know, it was almost part of their lifestyle. Yeah, you know, I think that was like a big part of the lifestyle then. Let me see. Commuting as we know it today, with people regularly traveling significant distance between home and work became prominent during the mid 19th century, primarily due to the Industrial Revolution, which led to large population shifts towards urban areas and the development of suburban communities accessible by newly, newly established rail systems, allowing people to live further from their workplace and commute into work regularly. The term commute itself originates from this era of early rail travel where people paid a commuted fare for regular travel to the city. Oh, wow. So I guess if you were one, like a person that came every day for their job into like, you know, rural New York, into the New York, any New York City. Then you paid a commuted fare.

[Caleb Hammer]

Yeah. And I, I'm honestly not against like the driving if you want to, or living with more space. I'm not against that at all. Like, I actually like that the community I'm moving to is kind of like that. It's a hybrid. But what I don't like, dude, I don't know how much you know about zoning in the U.S. but it's crazy. You know, we're supposed to be like this capitalist bastion of freedom, but we don't let anyone build what they want on their property. So you live in a neighborhood and in order to get a coffee, you have to drive 10 minutes because no one can build a coffee shop in the neighborhood.

[Theo Von]

Right.

[Caleb Hammer]

Because we tell people what they have to build instead of letting the people determine the market and the market determining what gets built in places. That's what I want to see, a more freedom esque living situation where people can build their communities.

[Theo Von]

Yeah, I think that that's fair. But then I guess what if you had a, you have a place you finally call home, you love it, and then somebody next door builds like a neon light shop or something.

[Caleb Hammer]

Yeah.

[Theo Von]

And they're just huge. And they're put billboards up in their yard. Like that kind of thing I feel like would lead to war.

[Caleb Hammer]

Yeah, that's more like hoa, you know. So like I'm okay with like small communities coming together and deciding what's good for their community. But a whole state or a city saying no, you know, you're 40 minutes from city hall, you can't build a bakery there.

[Theo Von]

Right.

[Caleb Hammer]

Sorry. A highway has to go there.

[Theo Von]

Yeah. So yeah, I guess sometimes you don't know what a city's overall strategies are too. It's like sometimes this is a regular citizen. Even though you may think that we do maybe, maybe we wouldn't know sometimes what their overall strategies are.

[Caleb Hammer]

There's this crazy concept where Austin, we built housing. You know, we just allowed developers and capitalism to take place. So we built housing. Guess what's been the largest rent decrease in the nation? Austin.

[Theo Von]

Who would have thought the largest rent decrease. Why? Because there's extra housing.

[Caleb Hammer]

Yeah. We built so much housing.

[Theo Von]

Yeah.

[Caleb Hammer]

Because we just let capitalism happen.

[Theo Von]

But so you saying that's a bad side of it?

[Caleb Hammer]

Well, it sucks for people, I guess, property values or landlords.

[Theo Von]

But it's also a blessing for people that can live.

[Caleb Hammer]

Yeah.

[Theo Von]

Yeah. Oh, well, one of the worst things that happens in a lot of places is the artists and stuff are the first have to leave an area because they're the ones who can't afford to live there anymore. You know, I think that happens in a lot of cities where, you know, rent prices start to go up and then the guy who's like, just doing his best to make ends meet, who plays a saxophone or, you know, who runs an art studio, they can't afford to keep their. You know, they're kind first to go a lot of times.

[Caleb Hammer]

Yeah. Gentrification is weird because, like, honestly, you kind of go in there, you do get better restaurants, you get better amenities, Things do become nicer and safer. But then there is like that dude who gets pushed out. So there's like, there's positive. Gentrification is a bad word, kind of a swear word, you know, because what.

[Theo Von]

Is gentrification, you mean? It means white people moving in and moving people out.

[Caleb Hammer]

I think it's more just money and development, but people do associate it with that. And like.

[Theo Von]

So. Yeah. So gentrification is the process whereby characters of a poor urban area is changed by wealthier people moving in, improving housing, and attracting new businesses, typically displacing current inhabitants of the process. Right. So they're kind of. You lose a lot of culture.

[Caleb Hammer]

Yeah.

[Theo Von]

Because you.

[Caleb Hammer]

Well, you develop new culture too, but you, You. You lose like the old culture.

[Theo Von]

Yeah.

[Caleb Hammer]

That's where I want more access to like, homeownership. Because if someone owns a home in that area and gentrification happens, you know, they can make a lot of money. So I want the people who are already there to have access, to be able to get into the home and buy it. It's the renters that get pushed out. Like the saxophone guy, he's. He'd be the one that gets pushed down. That sucks.

[Theo Von]

Yeah. You lose a lot of authenticity there, too. You lose people who know the. The neighborhood. And then everything just starts to be a Panera Bread, too, which really starts to suck.

[Caleb Hammer]

Chain. Yeah.

[Theo Von]

That's one thing that starts to happen in a lot of places is you just run a lot of the same. And a lot of. A lot of cities start to look the same.

[Caleb Hammer]

Yes.

[Theo Von]

And then you don't have any. There's no reason to even go to another city. You're like, why do I want to go there if it's just going to be another restaurant that's just next door? To me, it's the same.

[Caleb Hammer]

I think they're called like, five by ones. Like all the buildings that you see everywhere, where they're like five story apartment complexes with the same chains on every floor. This is the cheapest to build. That's usually what the Again, the city messes it up by only zoning for that because everything has to be one size fits all.

[Theo Von]

Yeah, Nashville's ruined. They have a great area there called 12 South. And it has all these like great little shops and stores. And then now it's just been. It has like a rag and boat and just like it had like quaint vibes. You could walk down. It just felt like you were in like a neat pocket. And then now it just feels like you. You can barely tell the difference between there and if you're walking down, like South Congress, in a way.

[Caleb Hammer]

Yeah. So you're still in Nashville. You ever going to move to Austin?

[Theo Von]

I might. I'm thinking about it, you know. I'm thinking about if I could afford to get a home here and keep a home here, you know.

[Caleb Hammer]

Oh, you could.

[Theo Von]

Then I would be able to go back and forth, you know.

[Caleb Hammer]

Oh, if I financially audit your statements, I know you could get.

[Theo Von]

This show is sponsored by Liquid iv. If I sound pretty juicy, that's because it's. Shoot, I'm liquidated right now. I've had a couple packets today, probably three, four packets. Woke up in the middle of the night, had me a packet. Liquid iv. I like using it. I use it often. I don't really care about the flavors, to be honest with you. There's a green grape that I've been using in some type of strawberry deal I've been using. I'll get me a water, pour out a little bit of the water, one and a half sips, and then empty in that packet of Liquid iv. Get it down in there. Put the lid on. Shake it up, baby. Liquid iv. It's more than just a drink. It's a science, you know, it's. You make your formula. So go ahead and break the mold and own your ritual. Just one stick plus 16 ounces of water hydrates better than water alone. That's true. Embrace your ritual with extraordinary hydration from Liquid IV. Get 20 off your first order of Liquid IV. When you go to liquidiv.com and use code THEO at checkout. That's 20 off your first order when you shop. Better hydration today using promo codes. Theo at L I Q I D I v dot com. If you ever buy something from our store, we use Shopify. It's 20, 25, and a new year means new opportunities for a lot of you out there. I know you've been thinking about maybe starting your own business. But you have so many questions. How do I get it started? How do I come up with a brand? And I had the same questions that you did when I started. Here's what I learned. The best time to start your new business is right now. Shopify makes it simple to create your brand, open your business and get your first sale. You can get your store up and running easily with thousands of customizable templates. No coding or design skills required. All you need to do is drag and drop. Established in 2025. Has a nice ring to it, doesn't it? It could be a business you pass on to your own family member one day. Who knows? Sign up for your $1 per month trial period at shopify.com t h e o you want to start a small business? Get started. That's right. Sign up for your $1 per month trial period at shopify.com t h e o all lowercase go to shopify.com theo to start selling with Shopify today. Shopify.com theo so just to kind of circle back into where we were. So one of the major things you're saying that Gen Z faces is.

[Caleb Hammer]

Well, car debt for sure. That's what every American faces.

[Theo Von]

It's car debt.

[Caleb Hammer]

It's. Yeah. Again, you have the car so you can get to work to get the paycheck to pay for the car.

[Theo Von]

That's the first thing my mom said. She's like, okay, you're gonna get a car to get to work to pay for your car.

[Caleb Hammer]

Yeah.

[Theo Von]

And it really was the truth. Kind of. But also having that freedom was great, you know?

[Caleb Hammer]

Yes. And I, I want to like just kind of correct what I said. Like, I'm totally for driving anywhere. If you want to just wish there's more options. It's kind of. You're forced to drive.

[Theo Von]

Yeah.

[Caleb Hammer]

So that's pretty much it.

[Theo Von]

Oh yeah. They won't even let you take a scooter or a lime on the interstate.

[Caleb Hammer]

Yeah.

[Theo Von]

You know, which is crazy. Like there might be one state allows it. What state allows scooters on the interstate? Can you bring that up?

[Caleb Hammer]

What state is allowing you to scooter on a highway?

[Theo Von]

It might be New Hampshire or something. They don't give a. Dude, as long as you're an organ donor, they'll let you do whatever you want, bro. As long as you are donating plant based organs back to society.

[Caleb Hammer]

That's wild.

[Theo Von]

So when I was a kid, they had. You felt like you had to have a job. Right. And my mom or My, you know, I was raised by my mom. She always had a job. She had a job. Like, I, I don't think she only had, like, she just, it was always work, you know, and parents would have been ashamed if they didn't have a job. Do, do the younger generations feel that same way? Like people that you're talking to, do they have that same feeling about work?

[Caleb Hammer]

No. There's something really interesting happening in our culture right now that I cannot define super well. I always mess up with the words infantai. Infantilization.

[Theo Von]

Infantilization.

[Caleb Hammer]

Yes.

[Theo Von]

Okay, thank you.

[Caleb Hammer]

A lot of people I don't know, everyone's like, I'm 19, I'm still a child. There's a lot of that conversations that I'm having on my show. And honestly I didn't notice it too much until I started my doing my show. And then, you know, being a little active on Reddit or Twitter, it's like everyone's really acting like they're a kid until they're like 25 now. I don't really know.

[Theo Von]

Baby syndrome, kind of.

[Caleb Hammer]

I was so excited to be 18 and have my freedom and just go make money, do what I want, go to college, figure it out. And there's so many learning lessons you get during that time period. But now it's like, I'm a child. Not everyone. But it definitely feels like a cultural shift.

[Theo Von]

Huh.

[Caleb Hammer]

You know those predator like beating videos online?

[Theo Von]

Oh yeah, there's so many of them now.

[Caleb Hammer]

Yeah. One thing that's I, I just saw yesterday on Twitter or X that was just kind of demonstrating what happens when Gen Z meets with those predator beating videos. They lured someone, you know, as usual, to meet underage person to beat the crap out of the person. But the Gen Z people lured a 21 year old to meet an 18 year old and beat the shit out of the 21 year old for meeting an 18 year old. Because it's a huge crazy underage 18 year old who's a child.

[Theo Von]

Right.

[Caleb Hammer]

So we must beat the crap out of the 21. It's really weird.

[Theo Von]

Like, what do you see? And like that was just like they can't even do that right? You're saying like.

[Caleb Hammer]

No, it's just, it's, it's thinking that.

[Theo Von]

Oh, I see. It says, it says five worst sir, Worst set, worst sister, worst sister.

[Caleb Hammer]

Oh, Brandon's on it.

[Theo Von]

Students charged after Mob beats Up Falsely Accused Child Predator. And that's in Woost. Oh, I'm sorry, I know this place. Worcester, Mass. Five students from Assumption University in Worcester are facing charges of kidnapping and assaulting a man for a tick tock inspired to catch a predator. Police are saying that the man did nothing wrong. As court documents state the man went to meet a woman who was listed as 8 years old online. So, so what are we saying here? Are we saying the school would not say what disciplinary action, if any, may take? First of all, the math department should take action against these predators because you have to at least be a predator.

[Caleb Hammer]

Yes.

[Theo Von]

You can't just, I mean it's so hard to meet people now and this guy finally comes out of his house to meet somebody and he gets jumped.

[Caleb Hammer]

That's crazy. But no, you're seeing it all over social media right now.

[Theo Von]

But what are you saying about this?

[Caleb Hammer]

I'm saying that they think you're still a child at 18 and 19 and 12.

[Theo Von]

Oh, I see. You're saying so that you think part of that was this?

[Caleb Hammer]

Yeah, I mean they're talking about age gaps. If you're dating with someone two years, like over two years. People are freaking out now online. It's crazy. The pearl clutching is wild online right now. Lots of just like over sensationalized.

[Theo Von]

Right.

[Caleb Hammer]

Everything right now. But I'm seeing that in these conversations where people are like 20 and they think they're still a child. They don't have to, there's no responsibility yet. They can just lean on everyone around them, their family and they just don't have to take care of anything yet. And that it's kind of hard to see. But that case that we just saw is further demonstrating that impacting other parts of the culture as well. Like we're seeing it across the board. Yeah. There's also this on Tick tock especially there's like this victim Olympic stuff going on where people are trying to over victimize. Like I'm more of a victim than you from this thing. And it's like, it's just, it's an always over just stepping over each other on who's the biggest victim.

[Theo Von]

I, I, it's so funny you say that. I saw something like this. I love, I love where you're at, man. Because even some of the things you're saying, it's like things that I couldn't, you're just at this really unique intersection. I think I just wanted to say that I'm just realizing that more as I talk to you. But yeah, I'll see things. It's like, yeah, the fires are really bad. But realizing that it's been 11 days since your boyfriend texted you back. Right. And you're like. And someone will be walking down the street with flames in the back, but they're making it about them and their boyfriend or something. You know, it's crazy. Or, hope my door dasher's okay. It looks dangerous out here today. And they'll be from their balcony looking for their taco order. And there's buildings on fire. Like, what are we fucking?

[Caleb Hammer]

I don't know, man.

[Theo Von]

Turn on your stove and also leave and go rescue yourself. You're gonna risk it all for some raviolis?

[Caleb Hammer]

Yeah, it's just.

[Theo Von]

It's almost like people don't even feel like they're gonna die. It's almost like, yes, some. Before we get. Before I go on too much of a tangent, whose fault do you think that is that there's some of that mentality, right? Is parents or is it just society? Who's. Where are you finding the fault of that?

[Caleb Hammer]

You know, I haven't seen parents, like, talk about it, so I don't see them doing it. I'm sure there's always an impact, right? But I think a lot of the tick tock Ification of things, and I love tick tock. I mean, we got a billion views on tick tock last year. You know, Hunt, congratulations, man. Well, thank you. But like, even still, there's. I've seen videos of examples of people talking about a story from their past, and they're just sharing a story about something that was just, you know, slightly inconvenient. And then people go in their comment sections and say, no, actually, you're a victim. You're a victim of all this. That, this, that, like there, there was some TikTok I was watching. I don't know, I think I was watching a reaction to it. Someone was talking about how they had an awkward hand holding experience when they were in high school. And people were going through the comments like, no, you were raped. And it's like, me?

[Theo Von]

Yeah.

[Caleb Hammer]

And they're just. I don't know, it's just this enabling.

[Theo Von]

Raped or knuckle raped, like, stuff like that. You're like, that's what you're gonna do a swab kit now on my hand.

[Caleb Hammer]

You know, it's very interesting. So people, it's. It's just kind of this reoccurring thing where just everyone's trying to one up each other on the victim scale, but also trying to tell other people that they're victims. It's really interesting, but we're also starting to see a little bit of a cultural shift in it. I feel like where like, not everyone's like, respected immediately who comes out of the gate and just like, you know, tries to act like this big victim.

[Theo Von]

Right.

[Caleb Hammer]

All the time. Especially other creators that try to come out and be like, I'm a big victim from this other creator who, like, said something bad about me. And then you can clearly see when you, like, look at their social blade and that video they made was their most popular video of all time. I'm like, oh, wonder why they did that.

[Theo Von]

Right? So now they're, oh, if somebody gets views off of victimhood.

[Caleb Hammer]

Yeah, in some ways, I mean, but.

[Theo Von]

I think you saw. Go ahead.

[Caleb Hammer]

Little shitty part is that actually diminishes like real victims.

[Theo Von]

Oh, for sure. Well, I think you saw. I saw this with Mark Zuckerberg the other day. He was on Joe Rogan show and he was talking about, bring up some of the clips. He was talking about how Mark Zuckerberg tells Joe Rogan podcast, Biden administration tried to censor memes in surprise episode. These people from the Biden administration would call up our team and like scream at them and curse. And it's like these documents are, it's all kind of out there. Did you record any of those phone calls? I don't know. I don't think, I don't think we. But, but I think I want to listen. I mean, there are emails, the emails are published. It's all, it's all kind of out there. And, and they're like.

[Caleb Hammer]

And basically it just got to this.

[Theo Von]

Point where we were like, no, we're not gonna, we're not gonna take down things that are true. That's ridiculous. They want us to take down this meme of Leonardo DiCaprio looking at a TV, talking about how 10 years from now or something, you know, you're going to see an ad that says, okay, if you took a COVID vaccine, you're eligible for, you know, like, for this kind of payment, like this sort of like class action lawsuit type meme. And they're like, no, you have to take that down. We just said, no, we're not, we're not going to take down humor and satire. Okay, that's good. And I, first of all, I believe you will probably see things like that because it's a lot. How the drug, how drug companies work. Right? But I think this is exactly what he's doing. He's. Because they had, like, there was. They admitted before to like only putting certain stuff up during, like deciding. Them. Deciding what it was, misinformation or not. Right. Which, which is Just. It's a. It's. It's awkward for a platform to decide. Right. Kind of like, unless something is, you know, sexual, violent, things like that. I don't think that should be on, you know, but for them to decide. For them to decide what was misinformation. But I feel like that's what he's doing here now. He's playing the victim here. He's trying to say.

[Caleb Hammer]

I see what you're saying.

[Theo Von]

That. Oh, we didn't. They're. They were telling us to do stuff instead of him saying we were doing these things.

[Caleb Hammer]

They're calling and swearing.

[Theo Von]

Yes.

[Caleb Hammer]

Oh, no, not swearing.

[Theo Von]

Right.

[Caleb Hammer]

Oh, no, right.

[Theo Von]

He's just trying to say, oh, we were. We were a victim of all this. And you're almost playing now. You're pointing fingers at a sinking ship. Since the Biden is. First of all, you know, he's. He's not. It's not fair to communicate with him, I don't think. And probably hasn't been for a bit because he's just not mentally well. Right. And no judgment against his party or. But just to me, I've always felt like they were taking advantage of a senior citizen. Right. Like, if that were my father or grandfather, I'd be kind of upset, you know, that people are marching him out every day. Because he believes what you're telling him. Right. He believes that he's fully capable and competent. Okay. All right. But, yeah, in this instance, that. That's exactly. You say that there's creators doing that. I think this is one of the biggest creators doing exactly what you're saying.

[Caleb Hammer]

Well, I mean, we had a prime example. We called the episode our. Our titles are wild, But Someone finally walks off Financial Audit. I guess that's actually not that someone finally, what you said, walks off financial Audit.

[Theo Von]

Okay.

[Caleb Hammer]

And one of her big. Like, she was a perpetual victim throughout her life. One of her big things is she sat down and we were talking about creating a better income for her, and she said, my therapist told me I can't have a boss, so she can't work ever, because she's not able to have any kind of authority around her because it would make her to feel.

[Theo Von]

Too triggered or something.

[Caleb Hammer]

Yeah, Right. So she just couldn't have a boss ever. Also, she can't do any physical activity or labor or anything, so has to sit down and do her veterinary stuff from her house, but won't get hired. And half of her resume, by the way, was like, activist stuff anyway. So, like, someone who'd be a little Afraid of hiring because you don't know what they're gonna. Gonna do to the culture of the company. So she's not going to get hired, but she also can't have a boss.

[Theo Von]

Right. But she kind of low key does have a boss if she's listening to her therapist. Because in the therapist, like, well, you're gonna pay me and you're. You almost become an employee of your therapist in some ways. I'm not saying that's exactly what happened, but sometimes that will happen to people. And then, yeah, people are like, I can't lift anything heavy because, like, in a past life, I was a weightlifter or something who was injured. And you're like, well, we got to get the boxes on the shelves. Okay.

[Caleb Hammer]

Like, it is difficult. Yeah. And she may have had a physical disability with that. But not having, not. Not being able to have a boss, like, you can't just. But then complain about how everything's bad. And I. Let's be honest. There's no way her therapist told her she shouldn't have a boss. Yeah, a therapist wouldn't say that.

[Theo Von]

Yeah, well, a lot of times you'll pay and then you, you'll. But that book, that kind of becomes a, like an emotional race card in a way sometimes where people are like, yeah, my therapist said that, you know.

[Caleb Hammer]

Yeah, absolutely. I mean, she, she was lost all over the place, so I'm not surprised. But again, she was also another victim kind of in her relationship. She was dating a dude for eight years. They got married, but she decided two weeks into her marriage, she wants to try titties, you know, just on the other side.

[Theo Von]

Date women, you mean?

[Caleb Hammer]

Yeah. Okay. Just go to the other side, hang out a little bit. He didn't want to. So he's a bad person for leaving her because she wanted to, you know, date women two weeks into marriage.

[Theo Von]

Right. You can't just be funding lesbianism if you don't want to be. Yeah. It's like you can support it, but if your wife leaves you, you shouldn't still have to be the guy funding it.

[Caleb Hammer]

Yeah. Or if you don't want to be open, especially. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Theo Von]

You want a committed relationship.

[Caleb Hammer]

So he's the bad guy. Because.

[Theo Von]

Right.

[Caleb Hammer]

So, yeah. Two weeks into marriage, what do you.

[Theo Von]

What do you think is the number one thing that's preventing gen zers from working? Or do you think we already talked about that? Let me see where we're at right now.

[Caleb Hammer]

Well, I mean, honestly, 60 to 70% of Americans say that they're, you Know they report feeling stress about money 60 to 65. Say they are living paycheck to paycheck. 50 to 60% can't cover a $1,000 emergency. 1 in 4 have no retirement savings. Median 401k balance is 30,000. Like, I mean there's a lot of things that people got to catch up on and the big thing that kind of sucks. And this is where I do feel bad for any younger generation, where college is getting more expensive, life gets more expensive. I mean that's what happens. You need to start saving as early as you can because like income's not your biggest wealth building tool. As Dave Ramsey say says. I'd say that time is because you need time in the market to let it grow. If you put a doll at 20, it's worth so much more than a dollar in at 30. But the more expensive things are and the, the more we treat you like a child who doesn't have to work and it's okay to take your time after college and it's okay to go into debt and it's okay to do all this stuff. The further you are from not only putting money towards retirement, but covering the $1,000 emergency or paying off the debt that's eating 30% interest a year.

[Theo Von]

Yeah, the more you have that, the, the more that that mentality is accepted and nurtured and becomes like a habit, then surely the further you are from. If you're not even taking care of your responsibilities or you know, hitting like a bottom line or breaking even, then yeah, you're certainly not gonna be investing.

[Caleb Hammer]

Exactly.

[Theo Von]

Do you see that nepotism is an issue? Because you know, there's a lot of, like there was always this idea of like Reaganomics where like the top so percent will have the money and there'll be this trickle down. Right?

[Caleb Hammer]

Yeah.

[Theo Von]

But that's never really kind of happened. It felt like. Right.

[Caleb Hammer]

Do you, that's interesting. Yeah.

[Theo Von]

Do you think nepotism, just how big of an issue is nepotism? Do you feel like you hear a lot like, you hear a lot about these days about like Napa babies, right?

[Caleb Hammer]

Yeah.

[Theo Von]

I just wonder if, if you, if you hear a lot about that in like the financial world, like, oh, you're just like a trust fund baby or something like that.

[Caleb Hammer]

You know, honestly, you don't see too much of that in my world. We've seen people that get like a big sum of money. I just talked to someone the other day, she got almost a quarter million dollars from a pass away relative. But she went into that pile of money without any behavior, knowledge of how to utilize money. She's only been in debt throughout her entire life. Only just blows all her money more than she makes. So the moment she got that. Well, of course. Does it get saved or invested or pay off debt? No, it's gone in five years. Just blowing it on fun stuff. So there is. I'm okay. If someone can prove themselves, you know, that they have the talent to be known and of we all. Do you have any kids?

[Theo Von]

I don't have any children. I would like to have some.

[Caleb Hammer]

Yeah. I mean you probably want the best future for them.

[Theo Von]

So you do want the best future for your children.

[Caleb Hammer]

You'd probably be willing to utilize some of your connections to help if you can.

[Theo Von]

Yeah.

[Caleb Hammer]

And I'm okay with that. But it should also be based on skills. So give them the opportunity. But if they up the opportunity, you know. Okay. Like good luck.

[Theo Von]

Yeah.

[Caleb Hammer]

So I'm good with Nepo as long as they're proving it a little. But you gotta teach that behavior. Teach that behavior. So they just don't just blow through what you give them.

[Theo Von]

Oh yeah. I was talking a little boosie one time. He's a rapper, if you're not familiar him and he was talking about how like the hardest thing to teach is your hustle to your children. Right. Like your same energy for like if you didn't have certain things growing up. He's like, it is so hard to transfer that energy to your children.

[Caleb Hammer]

Absolutely.

[Theo Von]

And at the same time want to give them just, you know, the basic needs even, you know, and the basic needs sometimes will be fancier because they're. You have more money to spend. Take me through a couple of examples if you can, Caleb of like gen zers or millennials and some of the issues, like just specific things that they've showed up with on your show.

[Caleb Hammer]

Okay. Yeah. I mean we had. This is a couple.

[Theo Von]

We just talked because it's so entertaining. Like this is what one thing that's so great. It's like it really is. It's just like. Yeah, it's a financial Jerry Springer. And it's so funny that you had already coined that term for you, for you guys selves.

[Caleb Hammer]

Well, people use it as an insult, but it's not. So I just accepted it.

[Theo Von]

I don't think so at all.

[Caleb Hammer]

I think as long as people are actually getting help and we connect them with resources and they a million percent know what they're getting into, I think it's just like the most fun thing ever. And Then they have fun, then the audience has fun. And what's crazy is, like, we could sit down and we could just like do the most boring finance content ever. And 50, 000 people watch it or something and some people learn something. Or we could do this, like, true real show that is also just also really entertaining. Hundreds of thousands, millions of people watch it. And then we've calculated about 20,000 people at least have. Which is based on comments. And things have gotten out of debt, saved for an emergency fund. I've actually changed their life just because of watching this show that has gotten to them that they're interested in.

[Theo Von]

Yeah. And I think it's almost you. You. I can almost see this happening where we will get to like To Catch a Predator videos of like, you pulling up on somebody or not even you. Just the way society is. Right. Because you're kind of at this perfect section of like capitalism and like voyeurism. Right.

[Caleb Hammer]

Okay.

[Theo Von]

Where I could see they're almost being like a. To catch a predator of somebody, like buying something that they can't afford. And you pull up on them on the spot, you know, it's almost like you're catching them in a transaction.

[Caleb Hammer]

Yeah.

[Theo Von]

And it's like, you know, you can't afford this, man. What are you doing?

[Caleb Hammer]

You know, Chop up their credit card on the spot.

[Theo Von]

Yeah, totally.

[Caleb Hammer]

Yeah.

[Theo Von]

Like, I. I just. I. I feel like that that's where we're headed. You know, Some people could use it. Oh, for sure.

[Caleb Hammer]

Yeah.

[Theo Von]

Oh, for sure. There's someone walking around a mall right now that should not be in there that is pretending, you know, to probably has empty bags in their hands that weights in them.

[Caleb Hammer]

Yeah.

[Theo Von]

Some very lightweights or old clothes. And it's just pretending this illusion of like living in some fantasy, you know.

[Caleb Hammer]

Well, honestly, like cities like Austin and I, you know, Nashville is kind of similar in Austin, so I wouldn't be surprised if Nashville as well. It's like the richer someone looks, likely the poorer they are because they're really compensating, you know, driving a slightly nicer car, nicer clothes. They're usually in mountains of debt where you just have a dude like Zuckerberg. Well, now he looks a little, you know, he's gone carrot head and everything. Or broccoli head. But, you know, before he looked like he was like poverty. But he's a billionaire, so.

[Theo Von]

Yeah.

[Caleb Hammer]

Lots of compensation.

[Theo Von]

Yeah. He kind of has that autism billionaire vibe, you know.

[Caleb Hammer]

Yeah.

[Theo Von]

Which I think is like kind of the new. A lot of billionaires are autistic now, you know, it's like the new thing, you know, so who knows what they're gonna do? Some of them. He looks like he doesn't even eat or anything because you haven't. Could you imagine him eating a meal? I couldn't.

[Caleb Hammer]

Yeah. So he's gaining, man. He's getting those gains.

[Theo Von]

I. I know. I'm not saying he's not healthy or something. I just think it's very. He. He gives off a computer energy to me.

[Caleb Hammer]

Sometimes I look up that surfing photo, the. I mean, dude.

[Theo Von]

That's a good point.

[Caleb Hammer]

Dude has a dump truck. You know, you don't get that not eating. Let's look at that thing. Good for him.

[Theo Von]

And he's in white face there. So obviously they were reprogramming him or something, you know, and they had to put his face in the shop for a week or something. No. Certainly an amazing creator. But I just. I do think there's this very strong link between autism and. And technological advancement that I think we'll figure out in the future.

[Caleb Hammer]

But that'd be nice. I think I have a bit of tism, but probably not enough tism to get to the 3 comma club.

[Theo Von]

Yeah. Yeah, it's a bummer. Yeah, it's okay. But still, you get grace with a little.

[Caleb Hammer]

Yeah, the 2 comma club.

[Theo Von]

Yeah, I barely beat it, dude. You know, and they said it was very close in our area. Can you take me through a couple of examples just so my listeners can know, like, some of the stuff that's on your show?

[Caleb Hammer]

Right, Yeah. I mean, do you want them to pull up some shorts, even?

[Theo Von]

Yeah, I mean, I know we have a couple.

[Caleb Hammer]

Oh, sir, we were just talking to this. This couple. They're both the. Okay, try not to get canceled, I guess. Lesbian couple. And they.

[Theo Von]

Oh, no, we know what lesbians are.

[Caleb Hammer]

Yeah, yeah. They just. They're obsessed with Disney. Lots of Disney adults are. And they're Gen Z and they are obsessed with birthday months. I hear birthday months. So much with Gen Z and girl math.

[Theo Von]

And what is your birthday month? That thing.

[Caleb Hammer]

Birthday month. So you have to celebrate. So for their birthday month, they spent $2,000 on Disney exclusive passes and then went to Disney World. Spent a lot of money on that. Then they're going to Disney World two times next month and then one time in the summer for different birthdays, different birthday months, and they spent. What did I have? $21,000 in one month. When they make $7,000 a month.

[Theo Von]

And what is it. It's not like, on, like, is it like lessons to talk like characters. Like how far? Like what are they getting into?

[Caleb Hammer]

I don't know. They live in Arizona to LA to just have their little special birthday. This is their birthday. I can go into debt and fuck my life. It's my birthday.

[Theo Von]

Oh, I see. So something as simple as your birthday. They can go 20 grand in a day.

[Caleb Hammer]

Yeah.

[Theo Von]

Right.

[Caleb Hammer]

The whole month.

[Theo Von]

Let's see this right here. And this is some of it.

[Caleb Hammer]

Two Disney's in these last couple months. Two Disney's next month. You guys are literally poor. We only went for one day in November. You still traveled there, bought a gwillion dollars of food, took our nephew from his birthday.

[Theo Von]

His birthday. And then we went for my birthday. Oh, if I hear one more thing out about lesbians and their nephew, you know, his birthday, I don't give a birthday.

[Caleb Hammer]

What is this obsession with birthdays? How are you guys getting there from Mesa? Getting one getting. It's in la, so it costs money to get there.

[Theo Von]

Yeah, we drive.

[Caleb Hammer]

We drive there. So you're getting places to live. Does it cover the place to live when you're there? Nope. So you're spending money to spend more money? Yes. Do you get the free food while you're in there and free drinks?

[Theo Von]

No, we pay for that too. Separately.

[Caleb Hammer]

10% off merch.

[Theo Von]

Got it.

[Caleb Hammer]

Crazy.

[Theo Von]

So, yeah, it's like you would think especially you can find deals nowadays where they probably could have got some free food vouchers or something like that.

[Caleb Hammer]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Or just stayed off campus and, you know, went, I'm okay. If they go like once, once a year, they're go. They have like five planned trips already.

[Theo Von]

Yeah.

[Caleb Hammer]

For Disney.

[Theo Von]

And what does that give him? I think strippers and lesbians love Disneyland. Right. I noticed that lesbians also love this. It's our nephew's birthday. Right. Because for a lot of lesbians, it's probably as close as they'll get to having a child. Right. Just because of science, math, whatever, and. And nowadays that's changing some. But for a long time, a lot of lesbians are like, we got to get our net, you know, Our nephew, you know, it was like, that's like the biggest, craziest thing, you know? So I think there's a lot of nephew obsession in the lesbian community as well, you know? Yeah, but that's a lot of money on Disney.

[Caleb Hammer]

Yeah, it is.

[Theo Von]

Not much return. You get a return, but you're an adult also.

[Caleb Hammer]

Yeah, but unlike most lesbians, I think they're gonna last forever though, because they're on the same page. And usually couples that aren't on the same page about money, that's where they divorce. But them, they're on the same page about wanting to ruin their lives for Disney. So it's okay. They'll be fine.

[Theo Von]

Yeah, they need to have a Disney now. I wish Disney had a hostel or kind of like a Section 8 area. Yeah, they should, because that would be very magical if you ended up like in the trenches.

[Caleb Hammer]

Yeah. Instead of the monorail, you get a little spray painted one. Just. It's a little sketchy. Someone tweaking out in there.

[Theo Von]

Yeah, yeah. But it has. Somebody's put like. Like Elsa likes to go on the side or something, you know?

[Caleb Hammer]

Yeah.

[Theo Von]

Or just spray painted some wild on it. That thing. That could be kind of interesting. Okay, so you're talking to people that are wasting too much money.

[Caleb Hammer]

Usually lots of debt.

[Theo Von]

Okay. A lot of debt. What are some other ones that you're seeing?

[Caleb Hammer]

Lots. We had this dude we frustrated incel buys women instead of dating was the title. He went into 8,000 hours of credit card debt just so he could go to strip clubs. He sacrificed eating so he had more money to go to strip clubs.

[Theo Von]

Wow.

[Caleb Hammer]

2000 hours a week on strip clubs. And his quote was, I'm a Sigma male. I can just go to the strip club and get some booty. That way, I guess it's easier for him. He's a little disappointed, though, that he couldn't lick or bite them, though. That was his one complaint.

[Theo Von]

Okay, so he's not. He did. He didn't get the fluid pass or whatever. I don't know what. There's a.

[Caleb Hammer]

That was another one of our guests that got the fluid pass.

[Theo Von]

Wow. Yeah, well, strippers is that age old kind of bait and switch. It's the illusion, you know, that's why they always catch men, like masturbating in their cars outside of strip clubs because they're, you know, they've built up this whole illusion. That's a lot of money to spend on stripping now. I do. I respect the fact that he was going without eating, though.

[Caleb Hammer]

Yeah.

[Theo Von]

A lot of people are just like, yeah, I'm gonna snack and whatever and still waste this money.

[Caleb Hammer]

Yeah. He picked it up in the military. I guess that's what they were all.

[Theo Von]

Doing overseas, visiting strippers and stuff.

[Caleb Hammer]

I guess that's how they made it.

[Theo Von]

Through dieting and visiting strippers. Yeah, I could see that. There was another one you had. What was the one? Bring up one of the ones that we had pulled up. The guy in the red suit was an interesting guy. I took the loan out to fund my emergency fund.

[Caleb Hammer]

Where's this emergency fund? Okay, I saw about a thousand dollars.

[Theo Von]

Stop it real quick. So this guy took a loan out to fund his emergency fund?

[Caleb Hammer]

Yeah, like 20 interest too, by the way. Dropped from 2,500. I spent some of it. On what emergency?

[Theo Von]

Learning how to do hair extensions.

[Caleb Hammer]

Okay, that's an emergency. I wouldn't say it's emergency. What do you think an emergency fund is? The money out of the emergency fund to buy a class for extensions. The interest rate on this is 28.64%? Yes.

[Theo Von]

Wow.

[Caleb Hammer]

Okay, so originally it wasn't for the emergency fund. I just thought that that would be a good idea.

[Theo Von]

Okay, so let's stop it there. So this is the kind of stuff that you're running into to.

[Caleb Hammer]

Absolutely all the time.

[Theo Von]

And this is a young man, he took money out at 28.64% interest to learn hair extension lessons. And that was considered an emergency.

[Caleb Hammer]

Well, first the fund is emergency fund. So he takes out 28%, even though like the best thing you get in a high Yield Savings is 4% right now. Something like that. So you're losing a net 23%. But even so, then he just drains it from the emergency fund to learn hair extensions, which invest in yourself, invest in your skills. We like that. Right, at 30%. I don't know. No one would say go get a degree for 30 interest. So learning hair extensions of that doesn't make sense. But he wants to move to Thailand to escape it though. So I think that that's his out.

[Theo Von]

To escape the debt.

[Caleb Hammer]

You mean to escape capitalism is what he specifically said? Yeah.

[Theo Von]

Do you see a lot of that? I'm gonna fly away to another country. That seems like a very fairy tale type of energy, honestly.

[Caleb Hammer]

No, Surprisingly, a lot of people, when they just get overwhelmed by their finances, they really just put their head in the sand and they just forget about it until it all comes and bites them in the ass. And that's usually when they come on in our show. They realize they've had too much and they watch one of our episodes and they're like, oh, I gotta apply. And that, that's when we usually see them, is when they've realized it's too much and they're in the most dire situation, but they haven't fully awakened to why. So they're still defensive on things. I'm sure they're nervous on camera, they're just normal people off the street. But that's why they're still defensive and they' trying to understand, like, what is going on. And there's lots of cope talk. Lots of cope talk across the table for me.

[Theo Von]

And what does cope talk mean when you use that term?

[Caleb Hammer]

Yeah, just like I, I, I was allowed to do it. It was my birthday month. It's okay.

[Theo Von]

Excuses.

[Caleb Hammer]

Yeah. It was okay to go to school for 12 years and take out private student loans to pay for an expensive apartment. I was just trying to survive.

[Theo Von]

So a lot of people trying to, it seems like, deflect the reality of the world.

[Caleb Hammer]

Yeah.

[Theo Von]

Like, how can, what can I do? Take what class can I? Take what school? Can I stand longer? What can I do to not have to face the fact every day that I have to be the one to survive myself?

[Caleb Hammer]

Absolutely. And I was there too. It just takes that moment, takes that moment for everything. I happily, I haven't hit it for going to the gym or dieting, but it takes that moment for plunging into the deep end. There's usually something. For me, it might be a heart attack, but for my finances, it was, you know, I can't pay this month's rent. I'm continuing the cycle of foreclosure notices. So they usually find their moment, but they just don't know why things are bad. But that's when they come on. We meet them at the bottom. Usually some need a little further to go. And that sucks to see. Yeah, that sucks to see. But people that have come on our show, though, the median guest pays off $10,000 in 10 months.

[Theo Von]

Really?

[Caleb Hammer]

So it does work like, it works really well. They just need that wake up call, a little of that adult moment where the, it's the first time someone's given them like the real without just trying to skate around.

[Theo Von]

Yeah. Because then also after you have a piece of reality that's really like a moment like this. These are real moments with people who have made some mistakes or we've all been there. I mean, I remember I had a cell phone. I was like, I'm not paying Verizon. They don't know me. That was my thought. These don't know me. Right. And I was on a bicycle at the time. You know, I was on my bike on the cell phone, you know, just eating up minutes or whatever, just running up a tab. And I was like, these don't know who I am. You know what I'm saying? I like to see them come get this money. Right. And my friend's house who I was living at, his dad was like, get Pay the.

[Caleb Hammer]

Yeah.

[Theo Von]

You know, and then I. I think that's when it started hitting me, like, oh, it hit my credit right next. I didn't know I had credit. I didn't even know I had credit until they called, like, hey, your credit's bad. I'm like, what is it?

[Caleb Hammer]

Yeah.

[Theo Von]

And like, your credit. And I was like, yeah, dude, put him on. And they're like, no, your credit's bad. And they're like, you owe eleven hundred dollars to Verizon. I thought you could just run away from it. You can't. But that was, like, kind of a bottom for me. I was like, oh, is really real, right? So I think moments like this are really real to people. And then you have a gentleman here who seems to be kind of fluid, sexually fluid. I'll say. Maybe. I have no idea. He's dressing up like, he kind of has a look of. He's like the arch nemesis of like, the Monopoly guy or whatever, right? Or kind of like a Christmas. Sort of like a. Like, kind of like a Carmen San Diego. Yes, yes, yes. Like, hey, like. Like kind of like Carl San Diego, right?

[Caleb Hammer]

Yeah.

[Theo Von]

So I feel like he has this, like. And it's a good energy. I like. So obviously he's. He's brave to do. To have his own vibe. Right. You can tell that, right? He's confident. Confident.

[Caleb Hammer]

He's a business owner, this guy.

[Theo Von]

He is. Wow.

[Caleb Hammer]

Wannabe business owner.

[Theo Von]

Wannabe business owner. But then he also has this emergency fund, and I think a lot of people sometimes when they. They'll create an emergency fund, a lot of fluid people will be very like, you know, like, oh, you're. This jacket doesn't fit. It's an emergency. You know, the emergencies can be very. It's like, is that a real emergency type of thing?

[Caleb Hammer]

They see it as a pile of money. Yeah, that pile of money needs to be spent, of course.

[Theo Von]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Caleb Hammer]

Honestly, though, that's still a better mindset than where a lot of people come to. A lot of people will come on the show and they really haven't heard of emergency funds. And they say their credit card is their emergency fund. And that's. I mean, well, he. Again, he took a high interest loan for it, so I guess that's pretty similar. But at least he understood he needed an emergency fund. Some people think if anything happens, you put it on a credit card. Now, a lot of people don't have an option, so they do do that. But then, you know, we try to help them pay off the credit card as quick as Possible.

[Theo Von]

Yeah. What do you see a lot of. Is there a lot of flexing still? Like, I know that's a thing where people like, I'm going to appear this way.

[Caleb Hammer]

Absolutely.

[Theo Von]

Is that a big thing you're seeing still with like millennials and Gen Z is like the appearance of things or some people more go into like the emo hole of like I don't have anything. I have nothing. I live in a Chipotle deep inside of a Chipotle type of vibe.

[Caleb Hammer]

No, there, there's still lots of flexing and lots of cope spending too. The flexing. I mean we people, we have people come on with. You know. That outfit I think was a couple thousand bucks.

[Theo Von]

No way. Really?

[Caleb Hammer]

Yeah. It was very expensive. I didn't think it was, but even he had red sunglasses too. They were like a few hundred bucks.

[Theo Von]

It was crazy hats like that. Those hats are kind of costly. I know.

[Caleb Hammer]

Yeah. I mean we've had a dude come on with, you know, crazy rings on every single finger, but he had nothing to his name. I remember he had kids and they're basically growing up in poverty, but at least he has the rings. So there's, there's always lots of flexing. People care about what the person next to them at the stoplight thinks about their car.

[Theo Von]

Yeah.

[Caleb Hammer]

You know, even though that person will never remember them 30 seconds from then.

[Theo Von]

Yeah.

[Caleb Hammer]

I've had lots of people that I talked to where I try to get them out of a forty thousand dollar car loan when they make thirty thousand dollars that they can't afford. And I'm like, let's just try to get you into a ten thousand dollar car. And then they scoff up a ten thousand dollar car. Like I'm gonna be seen in a ten thousand dollars car. That mindset's kind of gross, honestly.

[Theo Von]

Right. Because you're. It's not even a re. It's because you're not living in your own reality. Then it's like, yeah, I think that was a blessing about having a shitty car. When I was a kid, I could, I, I've earned the money. I bought the car. It was a piece of. Someone stole the passenger seat. But I drove it. You know, people would get in and just had to get in immediately into the back seat.

[Caleb Hammer]

Yeah.

[Theo Von]

You know, but it was like I drove. But it was.

[Caleb Hammer]

Well, you learned the value of it.

[Theo Von]

Oh.

[Caleb Hammer]

And that's the important part. So many people that can just lean on others and especially those get it named. We see so much enablement where they get into a hard time but then their parents bail them out. There's nothing wrong with the heart of wanting to help someone out, but they never learn their lesson. And then they never understand the value of a thousand dollars even. Or just a dollar. Just a dollar. But, like, there's so many instances where I'm talking about $300 that they're spending on something and that means nothing. Nothing to them. Like, $300 isn't a lot of money when it could be make or break for these people just making a necessary payment, avoiding a repo. But then $300 is nothing to them. They just don't understand the value of a dollar because they never had to. Because you had that car. You had to put money into fixing that car, probably multiple times or being terrified of it just bottoming on the street. You understood the value of it. So you're not just, like, being disrespectful with your car purchases going forward. You understand it.

[Theo Von]

Yeah. ABC Wednesdays, Tim Allen and Kat Dennings.

[Caleb Hammer]

Star in the new family comedy Shifting gears. Dad, I'm broke and I need a place to stay until I figure out what the rest of my life looks like. So a couple of days when his.

[Theo Von]

Daughter moves back in.

[Caleb Hammer]

The last time you walked out that.

[Theo Von]

Door, you looked back at me and gave me a double bird.

[Caleb Hammer]

I was 18. The double bird was how I ended all our conversations. The wheels come off.

[Theo Von]

Can we try to talk to each.

[Caleb Hammer]

Other like rational adults?

[Theo Von]

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[Caleb Hammer]

Oh, yes.

[Theo Von]

Is there?

[Caleb Hammer]

And that kind of goes back to tick tock and YouTube.

[Theo Von]

Yeah. Take me to some of that. What do you think? What is some of that? What is. Yeah. What is some of that? Get rich. Yeah.

[Caleb Hammer]

So many rich schemes.

[Theo Von]

What is that?

[Caleb Hammer]

Pyramid schemes. People are falling into. I had someone going into a ball python pyramid scheme that I just talked to.

[Theo Von]

No way.

[Caleb Hammer]

Yeah. So he buys 10 baby ball pythons from his friend. But how do you make money off of these ball pythons that are supposed to breed?

[Theo Von]

Okay, so hold on. You get 10 baby ball pythons and then you pay somebody. You get the 10 baby ball pythons. Pythons. Okay. And now what do I do with these baby ball pythons? How do I get pyramid it in?

[Caleb Hammer]

Well, how do you make money? What would you. What would you do to make money off of baby?

[Theo Von]

I think you'd have to mate them and then sell 10 to somebody else.

[Caleb Hammer]

Yeah. Now who's buying them?

[Theo Von]

People, you know?

[Caleb Hammer]

No, people that want to buy them so that they can breed them to sell them to people who breed them.

[Theo Von]

Okay.

[Caleb Hammer]

Because people aren't buying them for pets. You go to a petsmart for that. No one's buying from these guys.

[Theo Von]

Right.

[Caleb Hammer]

You buy the baby Paul pythons hoping they make make kids so that you can sell them to others who want to make kids and sell to others. And he got sucked into that tens of thousands of dollars. And his 90 day fiance, wife from somewhere in Central America is like freaking out about this. She moved here, sacrificed everything and this dude's blowing all his money on this. And also like a million other side hustles. He's trying to do the power washing, he's trying to do the car detailing. Anything that is a tick tock, get rich quick type of thing or even just the side hustle things that some people do make work, he is just falling into it. And the pythons, that's, this is most recent example, but the pythons he bought have gone down 50% in value because apparently you can day trade. You can day trade the ball pythons on like a little market app.

[Theo Von]

There's a market app for day trading ball bot?

[Caleb Hammer]

Yeah.

[Theo Von]

So, so not only has somebody created a pyramid scheme of ball python, right? So you're ball python and you're, you're, you know, you're, you're selling a few grams of ball python here, you know, an eight, an eight ball python here. And then you. But then the whole time somebody's also, whoever engineered this thing also created an app where there's like almost a ball python coin market. So that's going up and down as well.

[Caleb Hammer]

Yeah.

[Theo Von]

So you're basically driving around town with a back seat full of ball pythons waiting for the market to go up and off so you can pull over and, and dry and put a couple ball pythons on somebody's tab.

[Caleb Hammer]

Yeah.

[Theo Von]

Wow.

[Caleb Hammer]

That's my access strategy.

[Theo Von]

Bring that up. What the fuck? What in the is happening, man?

[Caleb Hammer]

That's Hawk to his next pump and dump.

[Theo Von]

I know. Huh? Where's she been at?

[Caleb Hammer]

She went to bed.

[Theo Von]

Somebody said she went to Barbados or something and she moved out of the country. Okay. But so, so that's a new thing that's going on apparently. What's another one that's going on? Any other pyramids?

[Caleb Hammer]

Lots of people getting into the knives. Pyramid schemes they're buying. You know, I don't even know what they're called. I've never joined them. But they buy knives to sell to other people. So lots of those. Lots of people getting into the day trading life. Crypto life. We had some old guy with no retirement. Poor dude. I felt so bad actually. He like blew through a million bucks somehow filmed it a couple years ago and super nice dude, but he fell into this pyramid scheme of you like buy these nutrients that people can take and then. But you hope they come to a storefront to step in a body scanner that tells them how healthy they are. Then they buy your nutrients. But I asked if we could come by and tour his business like a couple months after that he kind of fell off the face of the earth. I feel like it. His shop doesn't exist anywhere on Google Maps. So I think that pyramid scheme collapsed. Ah, well the reality is though, ye reality is in retirement again we already talked about 15 to 25, 20% are actually able to. Or actually 15 to 20 of people take early withdrawals before even 60 and at the median 401k bounce is 30 000. But it's low and slow. That's all it is. You know, you're cooking a nice piece of meat. It's low and slow. That's what your retirement fund needs to be. You're just hoping it doubles like every seven years or so in the market. It just got to be investing like 20 a year. 20 a year.

[Theo Von]

20 years. A lot.

[Caleb Hammer]

Lot. It's a lot. But if you accurately budget it can be relatively decent.

[Theo Von]

The $5 a week is a great amount.

[Caleb Hammer]

Yeah, starting anywhere is great. Starting anywhere. I mean that's why you focus on getting out of debt first. So that you have more to invest.

[Theo Von]

Right.

[Caleb Hammer]

You know, out of the high interest debt. But what a lot of people suggest is 50, 30, 20, 50 on needs, 30% on wants because you want to be able to live. What's the point of being here if we're not having fun? And then 20% to investing, so it's still the smallest percentage.

[Theo Von]

Okay, but say if you have debt, right?

[Caleb Hammer]

Yeah.

[Theo Von]

And you could save $5 every week. Week. What's the debt you could save? Say you have, say you're $10,000 in debt.

[Caleb Hammer]

Okay.

[Theo Von]

And you're 25 years old.

[Caleb Hammer]

Okay.

[Theo Von]

And you could save $20 a week. Right. Would you rather you put that $20 a week towards paying off the debt or is it better to take that 20 and put it towards just like a long term investment?

[Caleb Hammer]

Well, a couple qualifications. Like what would you say the interest rate of the debt is and what is the debt?

[Theo Von]

That's a good point. I would say the interest rate of the debt is probably going to be about 14 or so.

[Caleb Hammer]

Yeah, absolutely. Debt immediately. Because one, it's probably not even an asset, like at least a car is an asset, even if it's a depreciating one. But let's Just say it's a credit card or a private student loan, you know, that's not going to benefit anything at that point.

[Theo Von]

Got it.

[Caleb Hammer]

So pay that off. And then the other question is there's also the third category. Do you have an emergency fund? If you don't have an emergency fund then at that point we're still funding the emergency fund over investing because you need to protect yourself in case of the rainy day. And the rainy day always comes because there's this mentality.

[Theo Von]

I think sometimes it's like oh, I'm not going to pay off that credit card. I'm going to invest. I'm going to save this money and invest. You know, I'm saying like I'm going to invest in a stuff but you're really just reverse engineering a nightmare kind of.

[Caleb Hammer]

Best thing you're going to get if you're just buying into the overall US stock market is an 8% return averaged out because that's what it's been all up years, down year since the beginning has been 8%. So if you have 15% that you know you're, you're just not making the difference.

[Theo Von]

Right. Is, is college still considered a normal path for a lot of Gen Z?

[Caleb Hammer]

Yeah, it can be. College people just do college in a really stupid way though. People go to the dream school that has the sports team they want for the major that doesn't make money. So it's not that college is the bad thing, it's you can do it the right way. Get your gen ads out of the way at a community college. Something, you know, ACC here super cheap. You can go for a couple hundred bucks a semester and get some credits.

[Theo Von]

A lot of diversity too at those colleges. You want to meet some, you know, I'm saying an Asian girl or guy or something.

[Caleb Hammer]

Yeah, do it. And larger class sizes as well. So there's a benefit instead of a big haul that you get in university so you get more one on one time with professors at community college it's actually usually just kind of better education. Just also statistically the people that are going to community college are also more likely to drop out. So that's why some of the metrics are a little bit.

[Theo Von]

I see. And if you're gonna drop out then you're dropping out there at a cheaper. Sure, at a cheaper rate.

[Caleb Hammer]

But then you don't have to go out of state, you don't have to go to the private college, you don't have to go to the college that has your favorite sports team. That's Gonna go in the, you know, gonna win a national championship in football. You don't need that.

[Theo Von]

Right.

[Caleb Hammer]

And then also when you're going to college, is it going to have a return on the investment for the degree you're actually trying to get to? And if you don't know what you want to do, there's nothing wrong with taking a year off between high school and college to figure some things out. Maybe do a trade. Look or look at a trade, see if you're interested in that. Take a career.

[Theo Von]

A trade, you mean?

[Caleb Hammer]

Yeah, just look and see if that's something you're interested in. And then you can go to trade school in a smart and dumb way as well. There's expensive ones out there and there's just average ones ones. And I don't want you to focus all your money and time on something you don't even want to do just because, like a plumber, they make great money these days, you know, the medians, whatever it is. But it's like, pretty good. If you don't have any interest in getting on your hands and knees and doing that, you know, maybe we're not doing that.

[Theo Von]

Right. Yeah. You want to have a. You want to have some interest in what you're doing, for sure. And you want to find something. I mean, that's one nice thing sometimes about going to a community college or going to a college is taking on some different courses and seeing like, well, what might I be interested in? You know, Know. You know, I know I like something about this, but I don't know what it is yet. Let me get at least into that realm of classes.

[Caleb Hammer]

Absolutely. I mean, you have to remember, people that go to college, 40, 40 drop out. So this is not a guaranteed thing. People think just because they're going to go to college. Okay. My life is set now. 40 who take out student loans drop out of college. Wow. I was one of them. I dropped out $40,000 of federal student loans and 12,000 private.

[Theo Von]

Wow. Really?

[Caleb Hammer]

Yeah.

[Theo Von]

Yeah. It took me, I think, 11 years or something. Or ten and a half. Or ten and six fifths. Five. Six years almost. Yeah. Like 11 years, I think, to do college.

[Caleb Hammer]

Yeah, it happens.

[Theo Von]

And it costs money, dude. I took a couple classes. Like, you already took this class and all those. I remember being like, yeah, I know. I'm good at it. I'm gonna take it again. Really? Yeah.

[Caleb Hammer]

Okay. Doubling up the degree.

[Theo Von]

Yeah. And just like. And I remember one time this teacher gave me a B, I went and took her class again to prove to her I could get an A.

[Caleb Hammer]

Did you prove to her?

[Theo Von]

I think she got laid off. She was dealing with like addiction. Pill addiction.

[Caleb Hammer]

Okay.

[Theo Von]

But I, I did a good, you know, I did my best, that's for sure. What are, what are some things? Say somebody's. They don't know what they're doing right now. Right. They don't know what are some. Let's go over some like blue collar and then non blue collar jobs that people could do. You could start at home. I've always said pressure washing. I grew up in a neighborhood where if you wanted to get a leg up, you could get a pressure washer. A couple hundred dollars. Sure. You know, you get a nice one for like 5, 600 bucks. Now you have to get that money first, but yes, it's realistic. And then you can start pressure. What? You can go to a wealthy person's area and be like, hey, I'll pressure wash it and you can do a good job. What are some other jobs like that that you recommend to people to get started if they don't really have anything?

[Caleb Hammer]

Yeah, I mean, there's nothing wrong with dropping some McFry's, you know, just to try to pay the bill. People look down on that. There's nothing wrong with these, these extra, you know, for the fast food jobs, even just while you're trying to pay your way through school. I mean, Summer Moon Coffee Shop, I like, you know, they're, they're Moon Milk Creamer. I basically lactate that.

[Theo Von]

Summer Moon, it's called. Yeah, I just went to a place called Two Hands.

[Caleb Hammer]

Okay. Also good. I think.

[Theo Von]

Yeah, they have nice people that work there.

[Caleb Hammer]

Yeah. But they were hiring just a barista. The, the manager was talking to me. He's like, dude, get someone on your show to come work for me. I need to hire people. 18 bucks an hour. You know, that's not bad. Austin's pretty expensive, but 18 bucks an hour is not bad. And that's a great place to just start. Get your foot in the door. There's nothing wrong with the side hustles either. Kind of like the power wash. A lot of people view that as like a side hustle, hopefully turning into a full hustle at some point. What I caution a lot of people though is a lot of people go into that and they're like, okay, now I need the pressure washer, but I need the nice pressure washer.

[Theo Von]

Yeah.

[Caleb Hammer]

Oh, wait, I need the truck to be able to move it around. That was the guy that we just. The ball python guy. He had to buy A truck so that he could move his pressure washer around. So that's.

[Theo Von]

Yeah. I don't want to show up with 10 snakes in a Ford Festiva and a Dodge Neon.

[Caleb Hammer]

Right.

[Theo Von]

You know?

[Caleb Hammer]

Yeah.

[Theo Von]

Like these snakes deserve a classy automobile. It's like, what are you talking about, dude?

[Caleb Hammer]

Yeah, people get more excited about the. The actual job, the journey, the entrepreneur ship more than the actual grind. Oh yeah.

[Theo Von]

That is a huge trap, isn't it?

[Caleb Hammer]

Yeah.

[Theo Von]

Yeah. I'm gonna look the part so much, but you still have to do the part.

[Caleb Hammer]

Yeah. There's nothing with. Just get into a bank as well. Get bank work as a teller. Yeah. Sit down and just talk, talk, talk. Different loans to people as well. I mean, there's lots of jobs that don't necessarily require a degree that you can get into.

[Theo Von]

I remember when I first moved to Los Angeles, we put up flyers everywhere. We would do refrigerator cleaning. Right. Nobody wants to clean their refrigerator.

[Caleb Hammer]

Yeah.

[Theo Von]

And for 200 bucks, we come and clean your refrigerator and we just take every. Just clean. I mean, clean it good.

[Caleb Hammer]

Yeah.

[Theo Von]

And bro, I was shocked at how many people were like, I was in a heartbeat. Absolutely clean this. A lot of perverts too, trying to touch your back or whatever while you were cleaning.

[Caleb Hammer]

Oh, sure.

[Theo Von]

But you chalk it up to the 200. Have a. Have somebody on watch while you clean back and forth.

[Caleb Hammer]

Okay. Yeah.

[Theo Von]

But dog walking, that was another thing. Something you could do, Right. Car cleaning. I remember if you liked cleaning cars, you like cleaning your car. If you do something well, somebody will pay you to do that well for them. Right. That's one thing that I always think.

[Caleb Hammer]

Think we used to have a on the street audit show that we did. Just back in the day when I was testing things out and I met this dude.

[Theo Von]

Like, take me through that on the street audit show. That sounds really cool.

[Caleb Hammer]

I just walk up to people, you know, those kind of camera in the face things. But I would just ask them money questions about their finances and then just kind of get my thoughts on it. But we met this dude who, you know, Rover.

[Theo Von]

Rover, like Rover, whatever.

[Caleb Hammer]

No, so it's the dog walking that you were mentioning. So you can hire dog watchers, walkers or, or anything off a Rover.

[Theo Von]

And oh wow, beautiful animals on there. Is that a Corgi?

[Caleb Hammer]

He's making 175000 a year doing that.

[Theo Von]

No, he's not walking dogs.

[Caleb Hammer]

House sitting dogs. But because it's just house sitting, he can also work his full time tech job from the house that he's Sitting. So he's making like 300, 000 hours a year. Yeah, right. There's a lot you could do, no degree required for that. Sit in someone's house, feed their dog, take him out.

[Theo Von]

And the funny thing is, man, I'll say this. Once you start doing something, you don't know where it's going to lead. I will be so shocked how many times it's like, okay, you're a barista, you become a good barista. Then somebody who runs a company of some sort, they show up, they see a good worker, when they know when they see one, they're like, what are you making here? Are you making 18 an hour plus tips? I'll pay you $80,000 a year to come work right next door. You know, why don't you come in tomorrow, we just talk about it, see if it's something you would like. Just because they see your work ethic. Or I'll pay you. It's just, it's amazing sometimes when, when somebody who runs a business starts to see good work ethic, that they will latch onto it immediately.

[Caleb Hammer]

Absolutely.

[Theo Von]

But also the things you don't know, it's like you start with a small thing and then next thing you know, it's like, like. My brother was a tree cutter, right? He started just cutting down trees and after a couple months he was like, oh, wait, I could be the foreman. I understand how this works. And I can do the foreman's job, Right. I need to learn more. But once I learn more, I'd be happy to hire some other tree guys and put up my own advertising. Like the barrier to entry to things. It's not as hard as you think. A lot of times it's just you don't know it until you start.

[Caleb Hammer]

Yeah. One of the first full time editors that I hired, dude was making the math worked out to almost like six bucks an hour working for a YouTuber. But his editing was great. And with the different incentives and everything I give just based on skill, he was making six bucks an hour to now 100,000 a year.

[Theo Von]

Yeah.

[Caleb Hammer]

So like, if you can prove it, right?

[Theo Von]

And I have a friend who's been doing some personal assistant for another friend. And I was like, bro, you should start learning social media edits, learn how to do them. So then whenever you're with this guy now, you could, you know, just capture a couple things on your phone, put it through one of these kind of like different filters or different programs that they have online. You know, there's Capcom, there's all these different things. And next you know you can show him three examples the next day. And now the next time he hires you to go out with them for an eve or whatever it is you know you can tack on an extra 30 bucks an hour because you're going to make a sick edit for them or something. You know like there's just. There's a lot of things that you can do. I think that's kind of an easy one you can learn is how to become a social media editor. Video editor.

[Caleb Hammer]

Yes.

[Theo Von]

Now you're going to have to have a computer that works to do it and you're going to have to have at least your. Your cell phone to be able to do that. But I think that that's realistic. Trying to think of what else. Oh. Carpet cleaning is something that people don't want to do a lot of times.

[Caleb Hammer]

Yeah. So I mean that's my small business or that's what the small business my dad owns is was just you know a little power wash and window cleaning. Carpet cleaning.

[Theo Von]

Wow.

[Caleb Hammer]

And that's what took him from you know being a cashier at a gas station when we were poor when I was born to now. They're doing really well because you can grow that. You can scale that. They opened a second branch. They're doing well. There's a lot of opportunities there. And then in like the video editing world just if you're just asking yourself what can I do to make that person's life easier. They'll give you money.

[Theo Von]

Yeah. Yeah. I agree. Trying to think of some other ones. Work from home that aren't as blue collar. I know there's data entry is one. I see a lot of advertising for data entry. Is that a valid one?

[Caleb Hammer]

It could. I honestly I have no idea. It could be.

[Theo Von]

Yeah. Yeah. Look that up. Is data entry a valid gateway job or something?

[Caleb Hammer]

I mean honestly just any way to get into a. Building a business and just getting to know management there and working with them and just asking what do they need and being able to fulfill those tasks. You'll move up. Yeah.

[Theo Von]

50 according to current data and entry level. Data entry position 000 typically pays around 15 to 20 power in the U. S with an average annual salary ranging from 30,000 to 40,000.

[Caleb Hammer]

And are you going to do that your whole life? No. But sometimes just getting into the companies.

[Theo Von]

You may need to do it for a couple months to get out of. To get out of a situation. You know Maybe you could do it while your kids at school. You know what I'm saying? Like Just, I'm just trying to think of little ways. I know that these are obviously me saying these things and I have no idea what some of people's real lives.

[Caleb Hammer]

Are like, of course. But in the conversations what I see are people looking down on shops like that.

[Theo Von]

Right.

[Caleb Hammer]

They're not willing to. Even though they're not paying their bill.

[Theo Von]

Yeah, right.

[Caleb Hammer]

It's like at that point everyone's just looking down upon them. I mean the car company is that's about to repo them, the bank is looking down on them. They can work that job, they can work the McDonald's, whatever it is, just to make ends meet.

[Theo Von]

Have you ever had somebody come in with a business idea that was just repulsive and you saw them going down a road and you're like that old.

[Caleb Hammer]

Guy I was telling you about, he did pump like about a million bucks into this whole thing. Really his entire life savings. Everything he's worked for into his 60s, 70s, wherever he was. And again, the machine, whatever this body scanning machine is, I'm not in that world. So I don't know, but I know it was like 50,000 or something crazy. The storefront that he was investing in.

[Theo Von]

Again, just a quarter later, bio frequency gadgets are a total scam. Let's, let's zoom in on this, see if this sounds like. I would like to find this so we can put this out. This is interesting. I recently asked what I thought about the Solex AO scan. This website for the product includes this claim. AO scan technology by Solix is an elegant yet simple way to use frequency technology based on Tesla, Einstein and other prominent scientists. Discoveries uses delicate bio frequencies and electromagnetic signals to communicate with the body. Was it something like that or. No, it had nutrients involved, you said.

[Caleb Hammer]

Well, no, he used the results to try to sell people to get nutrients.

[Theo Von]

Oh, I see.

[Caleb Hammer]

And that was the pyramid scheme he was a part of.

[Theo Von]

Of Got it. So first there's going to be a place where people are going to get this scan done and then based on the, the, the outcomes of the scan, you're going to be able to sell them nutrients to get them equal.

[Caleb Hammer]

Exactly.

[Theo Von]

Get them whole. Wow, man, it's, it's crazy the level of people. We had a glitter mining thing by us growing up. People sold these glitter. Like you could buy shares of glitter mines or whatever where they were mining glitter and they robbed so many of us.

[Caleb Hammer]

Oh yeah, yeah.

[Theo Von]

I was in a pyramid scheme too. I put. I lost something.

[Caleb Hammer]

What you saw just.

[Theo Von]

It was like you, it was. You basically sold somebody right into A pyramid, like I got into. And it was the. On the chart. It was a pyramid.

[Caleb Hammer]

Yeah.

[Theo Von]

And it was like, well, I remember asking somebody like, is this a pyramid scheme? And they're like, I don't know.

[Caleb Hammer]

You remember what you were selling?

[Theo Von]

Just you sold literally the square that you had. It was like, oh, I'm going to sell. Somebody sold me a square. And then it was like, okay, now I get two squares. I get to sell two squares. It was a, it was a.

[Caleb Hammer]

That is like a literal. Okay. Yeah.

[Theo Von]

And dude, the crazy part was I remember asking my friend's dad about it and he had bought into it too. So everybody got took by us.

[Caleb Hammer]

We see people get into the makeup one a lot.

[Theo Von]

The makeup pyramid scheme.

[Caleb Hammer]

Yeah. It's where you, you buy makeup from someone else and you sell that to other people and you try to recruit people to sell makeup.

[Theo Von]

And well, there's like, Donna, what's that? Donna, what's that? K. Mary Kay.

[Caleb Hammer]

Mary Kay. We get lots of Mary Kay's.

[Theo Von]

You do?

[Caleb Hammer]

Yes, absolutely.

[Theo Von]

I'll tell you a story. I was at in West Virginia. I was doing a show there one weekend and they had the grand sellers of the Mary Kay Group and they all had Cadillacs or whatever and they were doing a big thing there and they all pulled up. I mean they must had 40 different Cadillacs that they pulled up.

[Caleb Hammer]

They figured out the game.

[Theo Von]

Multi level marketing. Right. So it's kind of. Yeah.

[Caleb Hammer]

I mean again, people don't want to do the low and slow. They want to get rich now.

[Theo Von]

Right.

[Caleb Hammer]

They're not willing to just invest and hopefully hit that 59 and a half. That's when you can withdraw from your retirement tax advantage, retirement accounts without a penalty.

[Theo Von]

Is that one of the things you see with the younger generation is just because of tick tock, there's so many more schemes out there.

[Caleb Hammer]

Yeah.

[Theo Von]

It's people wanting the easy way out.

[Caleb Hammer]

Absolutely. Because they see other people that have a proven success rate to actually do it. So it's just a quick way to get to wealthiness. And 60 seems so far to a 20 year old.

[Theo Von]

So far. Yeah. What were some. I know there were some trying to think of some different inventions or schemes. There was one called Dina Dynaf D Y N A. It was a bike wheel. This thing was crazy. Dinah bike wheel. This was it. Pull up. This Dynosphere Dinosphere vehicle. Zoom in. The Dynosphere is a mono wheel vehicle designed, designed, patented in 1930 by John Archibald Pervez from Somerset UK. Pervez idea for the vehicle was inspired By a sketch made by Leonardo da Vinci. Look at this thing. Two prototypes were initially built. A smaller electric model and one with a gasoline motor. Let me see. The driver's seat and the motor were part of one unit mounted with wheels upon the interior rails of the outer hoop. I mean, this thing looks. Looks crazy if you can. You can't see this on audio, but it's basically a guy driving a huge tire around. The singular driving seat and motor unit, when powered forward, would thus try to climb up the spherical rails which would cause the lattice cage to roll forward. So basically you're in a fair. It's like something you'd be in at a carnival. Steering of the prototype was crude, requiring the driver to lean in the direction sought to travel. Though Pervez envisioned future models equipped with gears that would shift the inner housing without leaning, thus tipping the dinosaur in the direction of travel. Perv. A novelty model was later constructed by Pervez that could seat eight passengers. The Dinosphere 8, made specifically for beach use.

[Caleb Hammer]

I want to see that. How do you fit eight people in that?

[Theo Von]

It looks like a beach. It's basically like a hamster wheel. If you guys could imagine a hamster wheel that someone drove. Oh, there you go. There's that eight seater. Oh, that's kind of cool. You get to sit in a circle and it just cruises. That's romantic.

[Caleb Hammer]

Yeah.

[Theo Von]

Okay, go back. I just want to see what happened to it. It was also impossible to steer or break. Another aspect of the vehicle that received while the mirror. While the vehicle could move along just fine, it was also impossible to steer. Brake. Another aspect of the vehicle that received criticism was the phenomenon of gurbling. Oh, gerbling. The tendency when accelerating or breaking the vehicle for the independent housing holding the driver within the mono wheel to spin within the moving structure. Imagine you slam on the brakes, right? The vehicle stops, but you just keep spinning in the middle.

[Caleb Hammer]

We need Elon to get on this. Bring it back.

[Theo Von]

Yeah, that's something we need back. What else did. I'm trying to think of a cr. Oh, the banana slicer. Can you see if you find that one? This was something that somebody invented. The problem was. No, go to that one right there on the right. Hutzler. Go to the Hustler right there. It was a one size fits all. Your banana had to be one size, right? So if your banana was obtuse or if it was like, I don't want to say an African banana or whatever, but if it was a different type of banana or Filipino banana, I don't Think this you had. You couldn't use this one. But that's crazy to think about, right? Yeah, yeah, that somebody invented that. That was kind of a crazy one. Trying to think of anything else. I remember hearing about, oh, there's always that baby cage that was. People would put that baby outside of the window. Remember that? That baby cage out window. Yeah.

[Caleb Hammer]

Hung it from a window.

[Theo Von]

Yeah, There you go, right there. Get that little baby at that cage. Baby. The bizarre history at a baby cage. Pull up. Click on that. Get me a link to that, Daddy.

[Caleb Hammer]

It's a little out sweetsy.

[Theo Von]

Little house witsy. Yeah. Little outsides. Witsy. Huh? Okay, play on words there. Dangling baby cages came into vogue after they were invented in 1922. But their origins really began with the 1884 book, the Care of Feeding of Children by Emmett Holt. Emmett carefully describes how babies need to be aired out. Fresh air is required to renew and purify the blood. And this is just as necessary for health and growth as proper food. And what were those cages? How big was that baby cage, Daddy? Oh, that baby's enjoying it, huh? It's gotta be kind of nice. Put your baby out there for an hour. Let him meet a bird or whatever.

[Caleb Hammer]

Yeah.

[Theo Von]

Have a falcon fucking befriend him. It was believed that exposing infants to cold temperatures both outside and through cold water bathing would grant them a certain immunity to catching minor illnesses. I could see some of that.

[Caleb Hammer]

This is the first cold plot.

[Theo Von]

Yeah. That's all this is. Yeah, yeah. That's the first gold punch right there. That's. That's Wim Hof. I think that's one of the earliest pictures of Wim Hof right there. That's Joe Rogan right there when he's a baby. Tell me a little bit about your own budgeting at Simpler Budget so I can make sure that people know about that. Young people who are confused or they don't want to end up in a bad financial realm. Tell me about simpler budget.

[Caleb Hammer]

The first part of just like fixing finances. The budget because you got to know what's going in and out. And a lot of people over complicated. They get a spreadsheet that they can't manage or they download an app like you need a budget, which is another really good one. But it's like so complicated and the learning curve is huge. And it has all these qualifications for so many things that you just don't need. People that are in bad finances literally just need one place where they can just connect their accounts, tells them where money's going and you can figure out where to actually stop spending money or close a credit card or. We even. We're tracking different accounts where you can see your investments as well. So you can see if you're on track and whatnot. So just that simple stuff and what a lot of people struggle with. Even if they create a simple budget on a spreadsheet, they don't come back to it the next month. So they make the budget, but then they don't actively budget because budgeting is not just making a budget. You got to stick to it, you got to follow it. So this helps you by setting alerts and, and whatever you need and continued education. And the, you know, premium version, we have these classes with financial professionals that you can join live and ask them questions, and they help mentor you.

[Theo Von]

Now, are these classes more valuable than the original class you. So these are real classes? These are valuable classes?

[Caleb Hammer]

Yeah, well, these are financial professionals, you know, certified financial planners and people with budgeting experience. Again, the thing we talked about at the beginning, that was just teaching how to day trade. So that's.

[Theo Von]

That's right. So day trading in its own right is risky. This is teaching people how to save.

[Caleb Hammer]

And budget, plan, budget proven things that like the most every licensed financial professional would talk about. So keeping people on track. People just need those extra motivations. A lot of people watch our show that are on that are on track to budget and payoff debt, but they keep coming back because it helps them stay motivated throughout the week.

[Theo Von]

For sure. It's just like, it's almost like going to recovery meetings or AA meetings. Like, you go to the meetings just to keep the word in your head.

[Caleb Hammer]

Right.

[Theo Von]

You want to stay motivated. Yeah. I love the idea that you have this world that's entertaining. But then the back end of the entertainment is let's keep people budgeted and on track. It's like, it's exactly really what a lot of young generation needs because things have. Everything has entertainment value now. It's like, you know, you're at a funeral and there's people, you know, like they're selling albums and. Or whatever. Like they're, you know, but, you know, there's. Everything has entertainment value now. So to have an entertainment value with financial. With adding financial structure to people's lives, I think that's really amazing. There's a lot of people out there that you don't know if you can trust. I've seen them in over my lifetime where. Oh, yeah, you come with these guys. I'm going to name some of these guys financier types in the world. And can you. Will you be willing to just give me your take?

[Caleb Hammer]

If I know them.

[Theo Von]

If you know them. Okay.

[Caleb Hammer]

Pull them up.

[Theo Von]

Okay. Grant Cardone is one.

[Caleb Hammer]

Yeah. Grant Cardone. One thing, one message that I kind of know about him is he, he's okay with going into a lot of debt and risking everything in order to get, you know, property or start a business. He's like, if you're not making six figures at 21, you're a failure. I think, you know, like, hopefully I'm not putting words into his mouth because I don't follow a lot of his stuff, but I know it's a little too risky for my taste. A little too risky. A little too flexing of wealth. Him with his private jet there. That's, you know, that, that's. I get the aspirational part. That's great. You know, maybe you'll get there someday. But let's just be realistic for the average American. Low and slow invest, try to get to retirement.

[Theo Von]

Yeah. I think a flexing of wealth is so bizarre to me because I would never want. I would never. If I looked at something somebody else had, I would feel bad if I don't have it. I feel like. Or part of me would. Part of me would feel inferior or something. Maybe not like up here, but somewhere in my head I'm like, oh, I'm not good enough for some. I don't understand sometimes why people do that sort of thing, but. But I also understand that's just my school of thought and that some people like this aspirational style, like, you know what I'm saying, let's see the flash. And that motivates some people. So I think there's a motivational tactic in it. Alex Hormazi, you know him?

[Caleb Hammer]

Oh, yeah. I think he's really good in, like the motivational part. You know, I don't know a lot about his own financial advice, but in terms of, you know, really being motivated for your entrepreneurial mindset, that's been really good. And honestly, I. I've watched a couple of his videos when I was dealing with a couple, you know, issues while we were scaling our business. And just like, you know, what does this guy do? He built like a multi million, hundred million dollar business.

[Theo Von]

Wow.

[Caleb Hammer]

And, you know, obviously that's. If someone's done it, maybe listen to them. So I've listened to a couple things that have been beneficial from him.

[Theo Von]

Tai Lopez, he's the famous guy that would read a book a day that always was crazy.

[Caleb Hammer]

To me, I think this is the guy that kind of put a bad taste in everyone's mouth about buying courses online, which kind of sucks.

[Theo Von]

Yeah.

[Caleb Hammer]

Because I think you can. We've put a lot of time and value and resources in producing educational content that, you know, people could pay for, that helps guide them a little more handheld. And we've seen like, one of the lowest refund rates, even though we offer free refunds, like, no matter what. And we've seen like the lowest refund rate in the industry. But so many people immediately, they see the class and like, oh, it's a scam.

[Theo Von]

It's a scam.

[Caleb Hammer]

You have to pay for it. It's a scam.

[Theo Von]

Right?

[Caleb Hammer]

And it kind of started with this dude selling a course on a million different things we had the book in.

[Theo Von]

A day was always weird. Like, I don't even know if I want to talk to a guy who just read where the Red Fern Grows, you know what I'm saying? Like, I don't know who I. If I want to talk to some guy who just read that in one day.

[Caleb Hammer]

But again, it was also, it was the Grant Cardone, like, wealth flexing thing. All his videos were like, you know, behind Lamborghini in a garage. And that's not where the average person's going to be. And that's okay. It's okay to be. Be poor.

[Theo Von]

It's fun.

[Caleb Hammer]

Well, it's okay to be settled with just a good content retirement. Not everyone needs to risk everything to go crazy and go into a lot of debt on a big risk. Not that that's what he advocates for, but yeah.

[Theo Von]

And having a job is just one of the most important things. I remember my buddy's dad would always just say, do you have a job? It's the first thing he would ask me every time I saw him. Do you have a job? If I had a job, he'd talk to me. If I didn't have a job, he wouldn't talk. It's just like, you need to have a job. You need to have something you are doing. And not because you need to be part of capitalist, but because you need to go and do something. Right. You have to have a job. It can be, you know, you're making something at home that you're aiming towards selling or doing, but you want to have some motivation. A job is just a form of motivation. It's just an active motivation.

[Caleb Hammer]

Well, there's some purpose. People find purpose in jobs. Some people are purposeless after retirement. Oh, people do you know, fire do you know fire?

[Theo Von]

Do I know fire?

[Caleb Hammer]

Fire, the independence movement, where you stack up as much money as possible, invest it all like crazy so you can retire at, like, 45. A lot of people did that, and no one's really doing it anymore because everyone retired at 45 with a few million bucks, and they're bored, and they have no purpose, and there's nothing because they don't have a job. They have a family maybe, but they don't have the purpose.

[Theo Von]

Oh, I know. I have some women friends that have, like, spent. Really got focused on, and they. Now they want families and stuff, and so now that's a little bit tough for some of them.

[Caleb Hammer]

Oh, sure.

[Theo Von]

I think fire affects women probably differently because they can have children maybe, too, you know, if they focus so much. Touch. But even guys like. I mean, I focus on work mostly. My biggest relationship is my work. You know, it's like, I don't have a relationship right now. I'm not lamenting about it. I would like to get married or something. But when I'm like, who's my spouse? It's my work, you know, I put a wedding ring on my job. You know, I like. I like working. The second I think about doing something, I think about working, you know? What about Gary Vaynerchuk? He's kind of a wild one, huh? Huh? Gary's always been like, the guy who's like, oh, you got silverware in your house? Sell it. Sell it right now. You know, okay, sell your silverware, Sell your house. How much is your health worth? 3,000.

[Caleb Hammer]

What, to get out of debt or sell the silverware?

[Theo Von]

$65. And then he'll pull up, like, I'll be standing in a park, right? Because he has nowhere to live now. He's eating soup with his hand because he has no more utensils. And Gary will be like, how much money you got? And the guy's like, I got $4,000 cash. He's like, you did it, buddy. And he'll hug him and then drive off in a limousine. Right?

[Caleb Hammer]

All right.

[Theo Von]

But it's like, that's the thing. It's like you just don't want any loose cash sitting around, you know? He's like, oh, your grandmother's asleep. Sell her nightgown while she's resting. She don't need it. You know, it's like anything, anything they have. Lease it out. Your grandfather's taking a nap. Lease out his eyeglasses while he's resting. You know, it's just all type of stuff like that, man, do you know the purpose, though?

[Caleb Hammer]

I'm so curious because I. I do not know this guy.

[Theo Von]

It's a motivation, I feel like. Right. Just my opinion also. But it's just. It's. It's always. There's always something they want to motivate you to do, you know?

[Caleb Hammer]

Yeah.

[Theo Von]

In Varner, Chuck, his family owned a wine company growing up. No shade, but it's like, dude, if my family had a wine company growing up, you know, I remember my mom beat me one time with a bag of frozen oranges. I remember that.

[Caleb Hammer]

Did he sell his winery?

[Theo Von]

It's a little different than that, but I'm just saying. I'm not sure, but I'm just saying. You know what I'm saying? The Merlot don't fall far from the grape. You know what I'm saying, brother? What else? We're going to talk about Ty$sign. He's not. Is he an investor? No, he's just a. What does he do? Financial advisor. No, there isn't much information about Ty$son's investments. Okay, so I don't know how you ended up on our list then. What else? Anything else on our sheet Wanted to go over. Was there anything else that you wanted to talk about specifically? Caleb?

[Caleb Hammer]

Oh, man. I just want. I just want people to realize that they're in a better place than they think they are. You know, that's kind of one thing we didn't really talk about.

[Theo Von]

Okay.

[Caleb Hammer]

Is that I, you know, I don't want to like, like, just like glug.

[Theo Von]

Glug on a. I agree. I don't want to be negative only.

[Caleb Hammer]

Yeah, this is. There's a lot more opportunity that people aren't. Aren't willing to accept. We're in a very doom and gloom right now where everyone. Again, we talked about the victim thing earlier and everyone's like, it's impossible to get ahead. It's a. Why do anything? Because everything's so hard right now. And obviously inflation was brutal, especially when it was nearing that like 9%. But like we just had yesterday, yesterday before we filmed this, 256, 000 jobs added in the last month when they expected 155,000. Like unemployment rate at 4.1%. Here we have a GDP 19 or $25 trillion. Where in the UK, Germany, Japan, we're looking at 3 to $5 trillion GDP per capita here, 70 to 80,000. UK, 47,000. You know, there's a lot of opportunity here and I don't want people to just really always beat themselves down And I know, yeah, like my shows, it is on the negative side because the. Their finances are really bad. But I want people to know they do have more opportunity out there if they're willing to take a little bit of risk. Risk.

[Theo Von]

Yeah. Yeah. And I think that. I think there's this pressure probably, especially with the younger generation, to put. You have to put your life on a social media. Right. And so then you would be. You would feel more shame about having certain jobs because you wouldn't want to put that reality on the social media. Where, like, when I was in high school or in college, you didn't. That wasn't. It was like, you didn't. I mean, social media was coming up, but it wasn't like that. It wasn't like, like you didn't have. You didn't have that immediate reaction with people like ripping you or roasting you or. Or making funny online. So I think that that's a different thing where it's like, oh, man. Not, what will I think of this job, man? What will other people think if I post about this job or if I live in this world? And I think that that's where you can just be creative if you do want to post about your job, be funny about it, be like, you know what I'm saying? Saying. And. And also, you have to just realize, like, it's the. That you don't want to be doing. That's when you sit there and your brain thinks up the. You do want to be doing, dude. Yeah, when I was doing, I did not want to do. Dude, that's when my brain was getting inspired, bro. I mean, my brain was like. And that's when I got to see what my brain even was. My brain was like, we're going to figure this out. My brain started to surprise me with ideas and thoughts and. And so I think that, yeah, you have to, like, just know that sometimes you feel like, man, I'm in the dirt, but you're really in the soil kind of type of vibe, you know?

[Caleb Hammer]

Yeah, I like that mentality. There's a lot of shame in certain jobs right now. And then.

[Theo Von]

Yeah, and we put it on. It's like, just put the fries in the bag. It's like, sure, but, dude, I used to just put the pizza in the box forever. You know what I'm saying? Like, we had a. And it was a blast, dude.

[Caleb Hammer]

Yeah, I delivered Jimmy John's for like six years.

[Theo Von]

Oh, really?

[Caleb Hammer]

Yeah, yeah, it was great.

[Theo Von]

I've. I've had Jimmy John on this podcast.

[Caleb Hammer]

Yeah.

[Theo Von]

As A business entrepreneur.

[Caleb Hammer]

Big dude.

[Theo Von]

Yeah, great dude, man.

[Caleb Hammer]

Very big dude.

[Theo Von]

I saw him at three weeks ago.

[Caleb Hammer]

Yeah.

[Theo Von]

So it's just like, you just never know where you're going to be, you know, Like, I mean, you just don't. You know. Jimmy John's my favorite sandwich. He almost got hit running across a highway to get a couple months.

[Caleb Hammer]

What are you, a number nine guy? I'm a number nine guy, me.

[Theo Von]

I go turkey tom, extra turkey, light mayonnaise. Don't look me in the eyes. I'll come in there and get it. Okay.

[Caleb Hammer]

I love it. Yeah.

[Theo Von]

And I'll honk my homework from when I come in. I'll even call them and tell them that. And they're like, this is getting a little weird. I'm like, just. I want everybody looking the other way. Leave the sandwich on the counter. It is a very kind of like. It's the closest I get to like robbing a bank or whatever. What was the last thing I was going to ask you? Oh. What do you think of an eight leg parlay as a realistic probability for somebody trying to get a leg up in the world?

[Caleb Hammer]

You're going to have to explain that one to me.

[Theo Von]

I'm talking about somebody who's got $10 left. And they put it on. Oh, and they put it on. Eight football games to all hit for a weekend.

[Caleb Hammer]

Okay.

[Theo Von]

Because this is happening basically in every PI Kappa House in America.

[Caleb Hammer]

Yeah. Dude. Betting is getting kind of out of control.

[Theo Von]

It's getting crazy. I mean, you have people laying in their bed at night fucking, you know, you know, just hopped up on Zins, praying for Saquon Barkley. It's getting bizarre.

[Caleb Hammer]

These betting companies want to sponsor us like every day. We have to tell them to off so much. It's crazy. It's like any kind of drug, any kind of drinking, any kind of whatever. You know, betting can be fun, it can be good. If it gets addictive, that's where it's bad. $10. If you have $10 to your name, that's all you have left. I mean, this is. People probably shit on me for saying this, but it's probably not going to make the biggest difference. We're just being real world about it.

[Theo Von]

For sure.

[Caleb Hammer]

But behavior, there is the behavior conversation. If you are going to throw it towards the bet, that is demonstrating maybe why you got there in the first place.

[Theo Von]

Yeah.

[Caleb Hammer]

So that could be a good step to correct your behavior for the first time. Even if the $10 is going to be. Make a break for whether or not your Mortgage is going to be paid. No. Yeah, but it's a good behavior fix.

[Theo Von]

What is a good investment? You just say you, you keep things pretty safe for the most part, huh?

[Caleb Hammer]

Yeah, I mean, I'm, I'm mixture real estate and like just s P500.

[Theo Von]

And when you say real estate, what do you mean? Like, what type of stuff would you get into?

[Caleb Hammer]

Well, I got my personal residence, but then up in Michigan where I'm from in Kalamazoo, I have some rental properties there that were like essentially almost like burned down pieces of that like no one would live in. I'm like, all right, I'll buy it, fix it up. And now it's, you know, students are able to live there and stuff. So there's, you know, it kind of, it matches with my morals a little bit instead of just buying up desperately needed housing. But also it's making money, which is good.

[Theo Von]

Yeah. And over time it definitely, I mean, time goes fast too. People don't realize it, you know. Time goes fast? Yeah, people, people bag on Gen Z a lot. You know, I think there's always that thing where it's like we're bagging on the next generation. But I was looking at a statistic the other day where Gen Z is like the average job. They keep it for two, like two and a half years and it's only six months less than millennials kept their job.

[Caleb Hammer]

Sure.

[Theo Von]

You know, so it's not like Gen zers can't work or that they're not working. You know, sometimes that's a lot of the energy that's out there.

[Caleb Hammer]

Well, you know the crazy thing, can you look up what Gen Z thinks they need to live? Have you seen this? This shit's crazy. And I'm kind of Gen Z, I'm like in that middle so I can shik, talk both sides. Well, that wasn't the ne, that wasn't the report that came out. But Google AI is telling us something. There we go. See Yahoo right there. They think they need $500,000 a year to be successful.

[Theo Von]

Okay, go to that minimum. Generation Z thinks it needs half a million dollars a year to succeed. Wow.

[Caleb Hammer]

That part's crazy.

[Theo Von]

Half a million dollars? They pay 4,000. Let me see armandar here, Howard. Howard and her fiance together earn more than $200,000. A 28 year old knows that's more money than the vast majority of Americans make. Yet the Los Angeles couple still live about half an hour's drive from their pricier neighborhoods where most of their friends live. They pay $4,000 a month in rent on top of her 450 student payment, their 400 car payment, and the $200 she sends home to her family in Indonesia. So they're saying that they need the zillennial. She's at the cusp of a millennial generation. And Gen z set aside 10% of her income for retirement and has a healthy monthly budget of $500 for entertainment and dining out, which she said comes with a side of guilt as bigger financial goals continually loom in this economy. She said a household income of 500,000 between two people would be very comfortable.

[Caleb Hammer]

Very comfortable. It would be very comfortable.

[Theo Von]

Yeah, it would be very comfortable. And that's also there, man. That's Los Angeles.

[Caleb Hammer]

Yeah, that's fair. But, like, the median household income in the United states is like $60,000, you know.

[Theo Von]

Right.

[Caleb Hammer]

60, 75, something like that.

[Theo Von]

Yeah. That's one thing that I like about living in a regular place a little bit more is that you start to get a more reasonable idea of things.

[Caleb Hammer]

Yeah, absolutely.

[Theo Von]

You know, I mean, the. One of the issues that we're all stuck watching these celebrities who are living these insane lives or pretending to also, you know, I find Los Angeles in its own, like, it has this, like, idea, like movies and parties and all this. But I always found it to be like, it should shuts down early, like, at all the bars. Close early. Everything it's. It's all for look. Right. Everything there was more like, let's make it look this way. Right.

[Caleb Hammer]

Interesting. One thing I think that tells me specifically, though, zillennial, like, I'm a zillennial. You know, in between that era, I didn't have a job during the Great Recession. I didn't need to. I was a kid. What that tells me, thinking they need $500,000 a year, is that there's about to be a big awakening when my generation and the people around me go through our actual, actual first recession, and you realize that, okay, maybe living isn't about being able to get, you know, five cups of coffee a day. That isn't the requirement for life. I want you to do it. Yes. But for them, that is full comfort, where, you know, throughout most of human civilization, we're just trying to survive.

[Theo Von]

Yeah.

[Caleb Hammer]

And we are very comfortable right now.

[Theo Von]

Yeah, it's a comfortable world, man. I mean, America is a comfortable place. You know, I know it's unc. It feels uncomfortable a lot of times, certainly in comparison to other people's lives. Lives. But. Yeah, it's like most of us have Food, you know, we have clothing, you know, we have a place to sleep. And that, like, Internet in the world. That is opulence.

[Caleb Hammer]

Like a demonstration of this. I was dating someone from Venezuela for a little bit.

[Theo Von]

Oh, wow. Okay.

[Caleb Hammer]

I know. Exotic. And she. One thing she was telling me about our culture, I was like, asking what's different about this culture versus the different cultures she lived in all over the world when she was escaping Venezuela. And she says, you know, things are good in America because of how much we focus on the minor little social issue for everything. When you have the luxury to focus on trans stuff or not just that, like. Okay, so Zuckerberg. Right. Yesterday, he announced that tampons are leaving men's bathroom or whatever. Like, I. I don't care either way. Whatever. But the fact that that is able to be such a major thing that we're freaking out about when you have that in a culture, that's how, you know, everything else. Else is pretty damn okay. Because we're allowed to focus our energy on that and not just making sure that half the country isn't starving.

[Theo Von]

Yeah. Or so knows that the media is tricking us too, by saying, like, this is what we should be talking about, you know?

[Caleb Hammer]

Yeah. But click. Yeah.

[Theo Von]

But I agree. The fact that people are able to. That people are bringing that kind of stuff up. I'm trying to think of anything else that I wanted to talk about. Any other. Any other group that came on your show that was kind of fascinating to you, I would love to play one more clip from your show. What's another one that we have, this that we could play? Yeah. I just encourage you guys to go. If you, like, you know, you get a financial take. It's very much. It's just. It's a perfect microcosm that you're in, and it can be a macrocosm, too. I'm not trying to little it by saying that I'm not the best with words, but I think it's just a perfect like. Like nucleus that you're in of, like, entertainment and finances. What's this one right here? Oh, yeah, play this one, dude.

[Caleb Hammer]

We built $75,000 of student loan debt. Say the degree one more time. All right.

[Theo Von]

Study Shakespeare.

[Caleb Hammer]

Okay. Shakespeare. Lovely guy. What are you gonna do with that?

[Theo Von]

Well, that's such a complicated question. Like.

[Caleb Hammer]

No, I was really hoping for a more. You knew what you were gonna do with this much school. So this. This is where you just have to say, we come from different worlds. You're not going to understand this.

[Theo Von]

What do you mean you won't understand, like, the precarity and why it's really all right.

[Caleb Hammer]

What do you mean, though? Like, your reaction there was like, oh, I know. I studied music composition in college. I was in the college of art School of Music. Okay. But I asked the job and you didn't know what to say.

[Theo Von]

So I have a lot of experience.

[Caleb Hammer]

Working at writing centers.

[Theo Von]

So I could be. What are. Yeah, what are you going to do with that?

[Caleb Hammer]

Yeah, you know what that is? That is another major thing that is happening a lot throughout. It's the continuous college because they're. They don't want to leave college. So they go for the master's degree, the doctorate degree. And that's more and more. We're seeing so many more people doing the endless college. Get the other degree. Because once you leave college, it's a scary world. You're on your own.

[Theo Von]

It's very scary. I want to go back every day. I want to go back every day. And this person gets a Shakespeare degree. So. Yeah.

[Caleb Hammer]

Doctor in Shakespeare.

[Theo Von]

Yeah. To be broke or not to be broke, dude, that's the question. I feel like, what now? Unless. Now unless you're going to go to a Renaissance fair and get winked at by the king or something, I feel like that's gonna be an uphill climb, dude.

[Caleb Hammer]

You know, she wants to be a teacher. That's what they do. You go to school to teach other.

[Theo Von]

People stay in this world.

[Caleb Hammer]

Yeah.

[Theo Von]

There is a group. There is always a person who stays in school.

[Caleb Hammer]

Yeah.

[Theo Von]

And people. Sometimes it gets blamed. I'm like, oh, look at this dude. He can't get his diploma. Or this girl is an alcoholic and she, you know, goes to, you know, Rutgers or whatever. But every now and then there's the opposite of it, of somebody who just stays in. Want to get out and face the world.

[Caleb Hammer]

Yeah, absolutely.

[Theo Von]

Yeah. Cool. Caleb Hammer, I appreciate it so much, man. Thank you so much for just being willing to come and chat with me. I'm excited to see what you guys do. And yeah, I just think it's really. I think it's really neat to have just kind of this corner of entertainment and finances and kind of just basic needs, really, you know? Yeah, we all need a basic needs voice. You know, we need that kind of like Jiminy Cricket that shows up on your shoulder.

[Caleb Hammer]

Yeah. A little wake up call.

[Theo Von]

Yeah, yeah, for sure. And you're an alarm clock man. So thank you so much. Caleb Hammer. Best of luck, brother.

[Caleb Hammer]

Thanks, man. I appreciate it. Now I'm just floating on the breeze. And I feel I'm falling like these leaves I must be cornerstone oh, but when I reach that ground I'll share this peace of mind I found I can feel it in my bones but it's gonna take.