← This Week in Guns
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A
I tell you what, prices are getting high, but a fella still got to get his guns and ammo. We go hunting for all them good deals online every day. Go to Pew Deals. That's P E w dot D E A L s in your Internet. Now back to your podcast.
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B
Saving you money, don't you know.
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A
Hello everyone. Welcome back to this Week in Guns brought to you by Patriot Patch Company FFL Payments Traditional Arms MAF Corporation. This show offers commentary on the latest firearms industry news, information and buzz. I'm your host Matthew Rosier and I'm
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B
joined by the Rat Man.
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A
What's Poppin Ratty?
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B
Not a whole lot. I'm having a nice time going for a walk in the woods with my authentic one to one to scale 1950s late 1950s Italian Milsur LARP. You can see I have my helmet that doubles as a tactical spaghetti strainer and I have my rifle which is the tactical spaghetti shooter.
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A
Yeah, no, this is all very high end. This is I guess in some ways it's like a little preview of a coming FUD blaster that I have very confused feelings about.
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B
Yes.
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A
And again, this will all all be fully explored but there's been a lot of stuff that's happened in the little bit of time that we've been away. As you guys, some of you guys know, I was travel, I literally last Thursday had oral arguments in the 11th Circuit in Jacksonville, Florida. And then the following morning at 8:30am had to be in the 4th Circuit Court of Appeals in Richmond, Virginia. So it was hell and you know, mooted those cases several times for that week to pull it off. And then I went and crawled into a hole and disappeared for a minute. But now we're back and the world has been, it's been what it is while we've been gone and made sure there was plenty stuff for us to cover when we get back. So the first things first is let's talk about the thing that I have gotten so many DMs saying, hey, you need to make sure you talk about this. And it is the the Frankfurt Armory Franklin Arsenal Antithesis Reformation gun, which over the past just couple days this story has gotten sillier and sillier. So we've got this, this tab from the Smoking gun. Trump's ATF reclassifies Franklin Army Reformation and antithesis. A win for Franklin army the MOVE Armory. The Move is another effort by the Trump administration to weaken federal gun laws. But is it though?
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B
Is it, you know, is it is a very interesting question. Of course, a smoking Gun is a, I think it's every town's, like every town's pretend to be journalists outlets. Right. So it's obviously written from a very extreme slant and they have chose to be very upset about Trump's ATF taking, you know, electing to settle some cases. Right. They're obviously very upset about the FRT settlement, which is strange. As much as these guys decried it as a horrible loss and then other people were calling it a big win, it, it's probably more of a nothing burger slash ATF victory. And I think that this, this particular development, this particular settlement isn't substantially different. Right.
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A
So this is, so there was the, the Reformation, right. Which was the churro gun. That was the, you know, basically, oh, it's not a rifle. So it's just a firearm. So we can have it, have a 14 inch barrel or whatever. That got all tied up. This isn't that. This is the antithesis which was rifled. Right. But the idea is, and this was basically an AR15. The idea is that they designed and intended this thing from the beginning to fire more than one projectile. So to have a ammunition load that had multiple projectiles in it. The way federal law works. Well, the way law works under English common law systems is you have to define what's prohibited. Right. And so the definitions that affect what is a short barreled rifle, what is a short barrel shotgun, etc, Right. They specify that a single projectile. Right. Basically per round goes through in terms of a rifle with a shotgun has to be a smooth bore. And so then the catch all is firearm. And as long as the firearm isn't capable of being concealed on the person, then it's good. Right. And there, there's back and forth as to what that is, but the safe one is an overall length of 26. So there was this lawsuit over it. Right. And Franklin does a pretty good job of trying to make sure that basically the government sticks to the law as written. You know, the smoking gun says that Franklin Armory exploits loopholes. Well, in the legal industry we call that following the law. Right. And so Franklin Armory tends to keep the government in actually following the law. Lawsuits going back and forth. Oh, they're going to settle it, right? They're going to settle the lawsuit with the Trump administration. That's great. Except what happens every single freaking time we settle with the government. Right.
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B
The government goes back on its word because you can't. The federal government is not actually, you know, it can't actually legally bind itself to always favoring a particular interpretation of a Criminal statute based on a civil settlement. If they could, it would be bad for everyone because you have like clown world government law interpretation at that point.
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A
Right. And so here we have their, their settlement agreement. And again, if it worked this way, and I'm getting deja vu from the, you know, the, the, the nagr stupidity that happened there. If it worked this way, it would mean that whoever was friendly with the government would just be like, haha, wink, wink, let's settle our lawsuits with whatever interpretations we want.
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B
Right. The, the like, you know, the obvious thing to go after there is that this was like early 20 years ago. Right. Whenever Air 15s were first getting popular, Giffords tried to. And that Giffords, I think it was every town or precursor to every town, one of the anti gun groups tried to revive something that anti gunners had tried to do before the assault weapons ban by having the ATF determine that the AR15 was readily restored to be a machine gun because the AR15 had originally, originally by Armalite designed to be a machine gun. And you know, the Colts or whatever that were on the market were not substantially different even with the Colt denials. Right. The, they were trying to get the ATF to say that, well this is just one step away and that's certainly too close for a gun that was originally designed to be a machine gun. So you know, the reason we don't want the federal government to be able to settle away its ability to interpret a statute as the statute is written. Of course, it's a big separations of power thing. Right. The executive and the judicial should not be able to make a handshake and say what Congress says no longer matters because we got this one. Like we'll just pretend Congress doesn't exist. That's bad. But you know, the specific way in which it would be bad is you don't want Giffords or every town or whatever to go to a, an ATF that's friendly to them and say we're suing the ATF for not saying that this is a machine gun.
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A
Yeah.
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B
Oh no, all AR15s are machine guns.
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A
Right.
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You don't, you don't want that level of silliness to be possible.
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A
Yeah. So what actually happened here though, which is interesting, it's a, this, this is procedurally kind of weird though. Right. Because they were on appeal to the 8th Circuit and it wasn't exactly clear how that was going to go. They were winning in the district court, but the case was on appeal and so it was all getting messed up. Here's what they don't want to tell you if the government is actually being friendly to you, they're allowed to drop their appeal. Now, the elites don't want you to know this. They want you to think that you have to do this stupid here. But, but whatever. So they're like, oh, what a big win. You know, whatever. We're gonna, we're, we're, we're, we won for the gun rights because we got this weird settlement agreement that says they're only gonna enforce this interpretation, not against us or blah blah. Franklin starts posting about how they're gonna like this thing's coming out now and it's gonna be good to go. And they had the, the 556. Well, not 556. Right. It was designed and intended for their five, five, five and a quarter triplex
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round two 23 chamber homolog shot shell, multi projectile thing.
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Yeah, the 223 triplex or whatever. And then, and then there it is. Who could have ever imagined. ADF issued. On August 29, 2025, ATF issued an open letter reclassified the reformation antithesis. The open letter implemented a settlement agreement which classified these weapons as firearms under the GCA but not subject to the controls of the nfa. The open letter only applies to the two models listed in the letter in the specific configuration that was the subject of settlement agreement. Other short peril firearms are not covered by the settlement agreement even if they are being branded as reformation or antithesis firearms. What does this mean?
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B
The problem, the problem here is that the, the way the settlement shook out, the ETF was only willing to. They were willing to rescind their open letters and then contradict them saying we got this one wrong, we'll correct it. Their open letters only applied to the as submitted examples Franklin Armory had submitted,
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which when it cambered in 45 Colts.
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B
Yeah, it was 45 Colts 10, which is substantially different than this new never before seen 223 shot. 223 chambered homolog shot, multi shot shell thing. That's. It might be anyway substantially different. And ATF feels that they would need to have a separate inspection and determination about that because, you know 45 Colt being what it is, and the objective design features they put into the 45 Colton 410 may not actually directly translate to something that you could just sling 223s through.
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Right, yeah.
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So.
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And so. And also there is, you know, long standing industry practice of shot, you know, multi projectile.
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B
Right. Rat shot existing. So like.
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A
No, I'm saying like even the, the judge and the, and a lot of earlier like game getter type firearms that were 45 410. They were, they weren't really rifles, they were something else. Right. They were, they were shotguns that could, you know fire. Fire a slug a little bit more like it's very weird. But I'm, I'm, I guess that's to say it's, it's a different question to say something is 4005, 410 which is an understood chambering and 223 triplex. Right. So and then after this it was, it was pretty brutal. It was sad to see it because you, you know I want to see all this stuff come down. Right. But the Franklin pulled it off of his website. It like it's all happened in the blink of an eye.
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B
You know they put out a thing saying that they would refund customers and that they feel like it sounded like they didn't say this but it sounded like they were saying they think the ATF is reneging on this deal.
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I think that they didn't realize that they were playing cards with the devil.
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Probably, probably true. They feel like they're reneging. But if you read through the settlement, the ETFs kind of doing what it has to. Now the thing about this settlement that really strikes me as odd and again I think I like Franklin Armory more than I do Rare Breed. But I me, in my opinion, I'm still going to say the only reason that you would settle when you're in the position that either of these companies are in is because you want to make money and you're not so concerned about the outcome of the great big chessboard of gun rights. You don't really care what that looks like so long as you've got the ability to make money at the end of the day. Because at the district court, the district court had ordered that ATF establish objective criteria. Maybe that's in the form of the rulemaking. It probably would have had to have been in the form of a rule making to state what it means for something to be a firearm because it is potentially chambered for multi, multi shot projectiles. Right. This would have been, you know, is to the extent that this whole antithesis idea opens up some loophole in the NFA or breaks new ground that's somehow fertile for making things that are short barreled rifles that aren't actually short barreled rifles. To the extent that that exists, the ATF having to clarify, you know, what is and isn't is is that windfall right an objective criteria that everybody else could make guns to this settlement, this settlement made it so the ATF doesn't have to do that anymore.
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Right.
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Then ultimately just made it so that ATF has to reverse the standing that they had taken in an open letter. Is that slightly more concrete than the Rare Breed settlement?
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Maybe?
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Because in the Rare breed settlement, they didn't get that open letter.
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Yeah, but the simple fact is they like this. If you were being very, very critical of the agreement you're entering with the government, you could catch this.
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This.
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You know, I don't want to be. I don't want to fault them too much because it, it. What this looks like to me is that they felt like they were dealing with like reasonable human beings operating in a good faith. They were not. They were dealing with the government. So it just looks as simple as that. But hey, I, I actually have. I feel like we're heading towards the end of restrictions on barrel length in general. So this might just be a speed bump. And also just to push back on one thing, you said, you said that the only reason you do this is to make money. Well, I actually think there is one kind of nit here, which is while it's on appeal, you do, you do face downside risk, right? You have substantial downside risk of getting an adverse ruling. I don't know if how the, you know, frac, which was the people litigating it, perceived their risk. Right. Going forwards in the appeal, I don't know. But that could have been a thing. But that said, devil's advocating aside, it was probably just that they wanted to make money.
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B
Right? Because I, I mean, if you're that worried about an adverse ruling, it's like a. Why has the case been brought in this instance? You're not bringing the case to win it. Why'd you bring it? You bring the case to hope that you could bait the government into sort of a never, just about never before seen settlement. That means about nothing. If that's what you wanted, then you got it. I just, I just don't know what
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good that does you silly gooses. But hey, well, you're gonna do what you gonna do. Moving on. Okay, so this, we sat here kind of debating, do we talk about Charlie Kirk thing. And while we were agreeing that we weren't. Shouldn't talk about it, we started talking about it and we're like, actually now we should probably kind of talk about it because there is a gun angle to it. I think in general, this isn't really a gun question. Right?
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B
It's like a second order, you know, like as far as the implications of this, it's obviously horrible.
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Right, right.
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But the, the implications, how it implicates guns in this instance is like a second or third order thing. It's not most people that are talking
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about very far down.
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Right. Most people who are talking about this seriously aren't talking about it from a gun angle, but people who are probably kind of unserious. And I of course the best evidence of this is you know, initially like the blurbs being spread by anti gunners were something like this is why we need to ban assault rifles. And, and like maybe, you know, maybe the, the greatest irony then is this was a quote unquote weapon of war. At least maybe at one time, at one point.
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Yeah.
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It was a like a Mauser 98 pattern rifle that has, you know, since been sporterized less than tastefully. Right.
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Kind of like hack job. And so you know, when we started talking back and forth the, the gun question on this is interesting, right. Because this was a, you know, people keep saying Mauser 98 and it's certainly, you know, a cock on open Mauser action, but it just looks a little weird to me. The scope mounts are all weird. Right. You know, it's possible that this could have been a commercial Mauser receiver. I feel like it's more likely that this was one of the, you know, great many imported Mausers that then got
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B
it did to them converted with a sporter profile barrel to 30 06.
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30 06. Which generally requires notching the top of the receiver or relegating your rifle to only using soft point ammunition. So the interesting thing is when they first found this gun, right. They said that they were going to disassemble it to search for importers markings. Okay. When you look at this gun and the configuration it's in, it's in a sporter profile stock. So that's worth the, you know, the bob stock to where most of the barrel is, you know, extending beyond the stock. There's no upper handguard. There's not a lot of places to hide an import mark on this. And so the, well so the real point here is that before 1968 you didn't have importers marks on guns, at least not mandatorily. Right. And so the whole thing that makes a imported firearm traceable, quote unquote traceable is the information on the importer. Because guess what? ATF doesn't have Mauser Oberndorf's factory records. And figuring out how that wound up At Bud's Gun Shop.
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B
Right. The acquisition and disposition of a rifle that was potentially used in a war and then was captured by one of multiple militaries and ended up at one of multiple depots and got sold by one of multiple companies to get imported by one of multiple people to the US and it's not until it's here that they'd be able to have a paper trail.
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A
Exactly. And so they said that they were disassembling this gun to look for an import mark. And that told me right away I was like I think this was a pre 68 import because so there was a long period of time. Well not. There's a relatively short period of time after 68 where the rules were still kind of unclear and they would kind of hide the import markings. But these were usually under upper handguards like stuff that was easy to take off and verify something in this configuration. It doesn't make any sense unless somebody was not following their, you know, requirements.
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B
And another, another potential option could be that originally it was an 8 Mauser gun or whatever other caliber it was in and was import marked on the barrel. And someone somewhere along the line said that would be a great deer getter, but I want it in 3006 and paid a gunsmith to take the old barrel off, put the new barrel on. There's no legal requirement to remark importers marks on the barrel or the receiver or anything. So once the gun's out of the importer's hands, it could have that undone.
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A
Exactly, yeah. And again it's totally legal. And so I think there's one of two most likely scenarios here. Either one, this was a Bannerman gun which was imported and then made into 3006 here to sell in the, you
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B
know, pre 68 times, 368 times or
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A
two, this was imported whenever the heck and the dude's grandpa who he took it from, re barreled it or paid someone to re barrel it. Either way the gun winds up untraceable. And so they literally pointed out the problems with like oh, this is the danger of like untraceable guns.
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B
I forgot there was an anti gun article that quoted a former ATF agent saying that they fear that this event is going to bring you know, like, I guess like other ne' er do wells attention to the fact that you can get powerful accurate rifles that are hard to trace that can make it seems like they're going to try and pretend that there's like a pre 68 loophole or whatever. When of course like you Know the, the data that the ATF was forced to put out during the Biden years. Of course the reason they were doing it was to be anti gun. But the data is kind of enlightening to see that by the time a gun is sold two or three times. Two, two or three person to person sales of the gun, or by the time the gun is older than five to 10 years, the chances of tracing it drops off precipitously. The chances of being traced at that point just basically evaporates. The vast majority of guns in this country are not quote, unquote traceable then.
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A
Right. Because you have to remember the trace only goes to the first retail purchaser. So it's. It doesn't make any sense. It's all stupid. And then the. Just the one other thing that I. That I think we should point out. You know, a lot of people always talk. You know, there's a lot of conspiracy theorists or whatever. Ivan, you. I liked the way you put it about this gun.
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B
So, like I've seen a lot of theories like he is a professional Israeli sniper or something. Just like a lot of, A lot of bizarro stuff, right? Yeah, like a lot of other. And okay, I'm not, I'm not a person that just will go ahead and take the first version of events that I ever hear. I do like to try and be somewhat skeptical about these things. I am not willing to believe any conspiracy theory that says that this was a professional or this was a paid hit or this guy was some sort of an expert. Because look at that gun, dude. There is. There is only one way a gun like that happens. And there's two ways you can look at it. It either happened because someone is so dumb, everything they do is a perfect accident, or it's the sort of person that does everything 100 on purpose because he knows what he's doing. It's amazing that that bolt clears that scope. It must be incredibly close, the scope.
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I feel like this has to be one of those things where you wiggle the bolt as it's coming back.
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Right. Like it's, it's scraping on.
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A
Like we are using off the scope. We are using 1 1/3 scope rings.
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Yes. Like it's barely mounted on the front because it kind of looks like it ought to be shifted forwards.
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Right. Like the eye relief. I can already tell that's just like.
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Like old man with neck problems can't crane his head forward and so he just puts it all the way back on the stock.
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A
Yeah. This thing is cracked. It's it's wrong.
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B
Even if you were trying to frame like someone who doesn't know what they're doing putting a gun together, you could never do it this perfect. There's, there's. You can't, you can't make this in a laboratory. You can't make the like poorly set up sporter Mauser in a lab this.
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A
Well, yeah, you can't. It's impossible to do it without satirizing
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it like, you know, but you know, like lab grown diamonds, they can tell because they don't have the correct imperfections.
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A
Right.
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B
This is not a lab grown diamond.
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A
Yeah.
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B
This had to have come from the ground pressure over millions of years or whatever in the heart of a volcano. The only way this is coming out,
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A
the only like this is pure dip like gun having. Yeah. So that's, that's, you know, and like I said, we're not. Because God, if, if, if anything you say about this doesn't get translated into whatever the. We're not saying anything. You know, this is obviously like a massive social moment. People are really forming ranks around this incident. And so we just wanted to talk about the gun angle that somehow some way anti gun people just.
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B
Well, if it's not an assault rifle, it's an accurate. You know, maybe the. Maybe a little catchphrase you could take away from this is that it doesn't matter what gun it is. It just, just want to ban guns. Like they're talking about how powerful and accurate a rifle like this is. Like come on, dude.
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A
Yeah, how powerful and accurate a. Like very clearly amateur. Like the scope is not mounted to it. Like it's, it's a. This is an RNG machine. Right.
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B
And how like, like how many years we've had to listen to them say we. You can keep your hunting rifle. We don't want those. Except this is that. This. This is this.
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A
No, this is, this is way worse. Like you could go to pawn center and spend $300 and get the Savage with the Accu trigger and this and the Nikon on it and you vastly outclass this firearm almost certainly.
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B
But like, like chat GPT prompt. Show me a hunting rifle. This is what it looks like. Like, like you close your eyes and say what does it look like when grandpa hunts. It's this gun. Like, like what's, what's the. There's some sort of a meme or a saying about this where it's like everybody's concerned about having like the perfect caliber and everybody's so concerned about their gear. Like what size magazine should I use in my AR when I hunt? Like rifles like this have taken more animals off the. In hunting off the face of the earth than you're ever going to bother with. With your like what grain weight should I use? They were using FMJ to do some dude just. So. Yeah, it's a. It's like this is the hunting rifle and you know there's the calls already. They want to ban it and what, what's the justification they'll use to ban it? Well it sounds like they're trying to hone in on what's hard to trace. Very old gun, hard to trace.
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A
And it's strong. It's like okay, thank you.
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B
Too inaccurate. It's impossible to use for self defense. It's only useful for assassinations. Like come on dude, just, just be honest. Do you want to ban them? Just cut to the chase.
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A
I just do. This is my favorite of your outfits though. So I think this is just great. The. The. For you audio listeners. He's. He's what? That, that's a. That's that Halo map Timberland from Timberland. He's got a BM59 and a pasta strainer on his. It's just perfect. It's just solid.
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B
From the Italian Expeditionary Force. Words.
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A
So next up we've got this is, this is an interesting one. This is them trying to. The representative Harold Rogers of Kentuck he's trying to claw back the you know the momentum they had in the SBR business. Right. So this is HR 5342 which is a spending amendment this. That targets short barreled firearms and silencers. The. And it's kind of interesting how it pulls it off. So section 618 none of the funds appropriated herein may be used to enforce the NFA regarding any firearm for which the tax imposed is $0 pursuant to the one big beautiful bill. That's really funny.
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B
The important. I just want to cut in. The important thing that this would fix is that the changes in the big beautiful bill currently doesn't keep this at $0. You know manufacturers don't pay the per. But you know currently they do still face all of the same liability they faced before and all the same fees and charges and costs and the compliance costs that an FFL may incur. Of course there's some that right. Shirk that to some extent which isn't wise but you know if you dot your I's and cross your T's and you're making tens of thousands of suppressors like many big Companies are. You have substantial compliance costs tied up in that because of what the NFA requires. You have to mark and inventory these things and handle them along the way. Currently, the big beautiful bill doesn't change that. So that pass will continue. That cost will continue to be passed on to you as a consumer. Now this doesn't explicitly get rid of that problem, but it does prevent the ATF from spending any of its money or any of its budget on the enforcement, on enforcement against the things that now the tax is $0. So sort of in a pod racing way it would make it so that the ATF, you know, couldn't try and clamp down on FFLs. Right. So there's some relief given to FFLs in this instance. But then there's also relief passed on to people who for example, see now that you can just have a short barreled rifle for $0 and they just go, it's okay, I'm just not going to pay the $0. What's the difference? So then these people would be given a little bit of relief as well.
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A
Yeah. So then here's the, the interesting part. Great. Notwithstanding any other provision of the law herein and hereafter, no violation of federal law shall accrue and no person shall be considered in violation of the National Firearms act or any other federal, state or local law that incorporates by reference the National Firearms act with respect to a firearm described in A1. I don't know if they get to do that.
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B
I don't know if they can do that. But what they're, they word it very weasily there. What they're trying to do is not all states, but a lot of states you have some scheme of regulating suppressors on their own. And a lot of states just point to the federal definitions. They say it's whatever the Feds say it is or it's regulated however the Feds say it is. A lot of these states will also say you cannot have a suppressor in this state.
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A
Right.
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Unless it is possessed in compliance with whatever the feds say is required for possessing it legally at the federal level.
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A
Right.
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What this is trying to do do is make it so that that state law cannot be used against you even if you didn't register it.
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A
Right.
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B
Because you know, the first sections there are making it so ATF cannot come after you can. ATF cannot use its buddy. It's money money. ATF cannot use its, its buddy money to come after you for short barreled rifles, short bar shotgun suppressors. Right. This section B is making it so even if you live in a state that incorporates by reference the federal definition of suppressor or short barreled rifle or short barreled shotgun, they cannot enforce that law against you.
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A
Great. But it's even more broadly than that, right? It says herein and hereafter no violation shall accrue. And so like I, I just don't think you get to do that in a spending bill.
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B
It's like, it's like preemption sort of
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at the federal level. Right.
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B
But you can't like you have to
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explicitly do that and you don't get to do like.
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B
And I, I don't know if I agree. I don't know if you can pull it off in the spending bill. But it's preemption of state laws that incorporate by reference. So maybe you can do that.
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A
So no, the right way to do that. The, the and the way that this is always done is you are in compliance. Right? Is this the, is the law saying is deemed to be in compliance? Right. That's, that's how you handle it. So this is weird.
- [34:53]
B
Instead of saying you're in compliance, which would.
- [34:55]
A
They're saying you didn't violate it. You didn't violate the text of a law that says a tax shall be accrued and registration shall happen, it says
- [35:04]
B
that you're, you're not in non compliance instead of saying you are in compliance.
- [35:10]
A
Which is, it's weird. Yeah, it's very weird. But hey, yeah, it's cool. They're trying and I think it's funny.
- [35:20]
B
So I'll, I will take strange ideas over no ideas whatsoever. Any other week.
- [35:26]
A
Any day of the week. Any day of the week. And you know what else? I'll take any day of the week. Zero Compromise holsters and gear from Traditional Arms llc. Guys, you got to go there and get the holsters. You got to get the holsters. The stay put some sauce. The minimalist EDC. While the EDC tech talk large surefire exterior, turbo dagger, Tumblr streamline, TLRS 7x streamlar, TLR 7x sub. All of this stuff is subject to our discount codes that are industry finest discount codes. And that is FUD Busters or Rat man, whichever one of us you like the most. Use that coupon code. And we're gonna get a little kickback. But guys, check them out. Dude. Traditional irons.com Florida company of zero compromise holders. And next up, this is an interesting one. Florida. You know I did on the, on the, on this channel a while back a, a video on Florida's Gun laws and how kind of like weird they are one of very few states to just categorically ban open carry. And state courts are weird. Like every state is weird. Course. But in Florida, the first DCA is like considered very prestigious and they came down quite hard on the open carry ban. Basically put it in the bruin and skilleted was. It was roasted. And this is not too long after we up the, the courts upheld the open carry ban back in 2017. So now, but this is a first district court of Appeal ruling, so you might be wondering, well, what does that mean for the rest of the state? Well, it's going to apply because the government is not appealing it. The attorney general has like specifically indicated this is good, we're not touching it and and also ordered the state law enforcement to not continue enforcing the open carry ban. Now this was very frustrating to heads all over the state and this will be official September 26th. So right now it's in a like,
- [37:56]
B
very weird
- [38:02]
A
like position because the law is still there. The Supreme Court hasn't done anything. Supreme Court of Florida hasn't done anything. It's still very much on the books, but there's an uncontested like middle level court opinion that says this is unconstitutional. So like some people have chosen to just start open carry already and some sheriffs have said we're not going to bother you. And others have said don't try. But it would be very, very interesting to see what would happen if you did go out and, and get arrested for open carry in the next few days, right before the 26th of September. Because it's like, it's almost as if your question, it's like you're challenging qualified immunity. Right. Because everyone has known the attorney general told you not to enforce it and then you do it anyway. Right. Like it would be really weird. But, but all that aside. Yeah. Uthmeyer told law enforcement agencies not to arrest law abiding citizens carrying a firearm in a manner that is visible to others. And he says that open carry is the law of the state. The. Yeah, here's his. His tweet. I'm issuing guidance to Florida's prosecutors and law enforcement in light of the first DCA's decision in McDaniels v. State. Because no other appellate court has considered the constitutionality of Florida's open carry ban since the SCOTUS decision in Bruen. The first DCA's decision is binding on all Florida's trial courts, meaning that as of last week, open carry is the law of the state. Very interesting. Very legally interesting and procedurally interesting.
- [40:05]
B
So everybody has to go in the comments and they have to say whether or not open carry is based or it's cringe.
- [40:11]
A
So you just say, yeah, that's the thing, right? Is it's. I have lived my whole life. Well, no, I lived in a couple states where I could have open carried. And every time I saw someone doing it, I thought to myself, but an absolute just.
- [40:38]
B
I mean, there's a sort of person, right? And I don't, I don't mean to stereotype or cast aspersions because you shouldn't do what you want, right?
- [40:44]
A
1911 characters.
- [40:45]
B
There is. I wasn't gonna say that. I wasn't gonna go all the way there, but man, it's a certain sort of person that has a pair of jeans that don't fit very well and a gun belt that's like very obviously worn out and sagging and twisting and turning over, and an Uncle Mike's pancake holster that's just a real pie. And they've got a 1911 that they're carrying with the hammer down. All right, this, like everybody, everybody can close their eyes and they know what.
- [41:10]
A
It's always a fucking 1911.
- [41:12]
B
It's.
- [41:12]
A
Or a revolver.
- [41:14]
B
Revolvers are somewhat common. Like, this is. This is what that looks like and it. And it looks bad, right? It's the sort of thing that like. And again, I'm not trying to say that you shouldn't do it or this is a reason for you not to do it. It might be a reason for you to make look slightly more presentable when you do it, but it's like something that somebody will like, be behind you at Walmart and take a picture of it and be like, dog, what the is this? And then every agree anti gun or pro gun. The anti gun people back. You have a gun at Walmart and the pro gun people were like, you have a NK holster, you can get a traditional arms holster. But the, you know, ultimately it's. There's ways to do open carry and have it not be completely cringe. Maybe.
- [41:59]
A
I feel like, I feel like if you're open carrying, it's cringe unless you like, have a rifle. Like, that's. That's my take on it. Because there's a lot of situations. There's a lot of situations, you know, and people always be like, Florida, you could do it if you would do it on the fishing trip. All right, okay.
- [42:23]
B
Trip to Walmart. Right?
- [42:24]
A
But yeah, there are other situations where, like, it would make total Sense for you to have a rifle. And usually it's not for defense against people. Right. Like when I walk around my Property, I bring a.22 and throw it over my shoulder. Does that have something to do with the fact that I have a insane fixation on.22 guns and feel weird if I don't have one? Yes, but not more than one time. See a snake, you run into some other bullshit. Right. It makes sense to be able to. If you're walking somewhere and there's wilderness around. I feel like having a.22 rifle is a good idea and it was stupid that you couldn't do that. I, I for one, don't think it's cringe to have a, you know, a rifle slung over your shoulder. I do think it's cringe to have a exposed 1911 or with a hammer
- [43:25]
B
down and upholster that's rolling your belt over on your pants that don't fit very well.
- [43:28]
A
Yeah, exactly.
- [43:30]
B
Kind of strange. That's sort of the. I mean, this sort of the way that open carry looks. And I guess it's like. I guess to expand on this discussion, because I do think it's interesting. It's very much a cultural thing where, like, if you go like, you know, out west, but not the bad kinds of out west, like the, like the Northwest, but not the Pacific Northwest, further away from the ocean than that. It's like the Nebraska, the Dakotas, Wyoming, these sorts of states. It feels like 90% of people have a gun. And most of the time it's open, carried. Right. It's either displayed like everybody's got a gun. And, you know, a lot of that's because, you know, maybe bears or whatever. But it's. I think it's a broader cultural thing. It's probably not actual, actually 90%, but, you know, me having lived in Illinois, most of the time you never see someone with a gun because you can't do that here. Knows it's a cop. But it's like loads of people had guns on their hips, on their person. And I think it's. It's more. It's just like a socially acceptable thing or a way of life thing for them where they're used to seeing people with that. Because, you know, a lot of These people live 30 minutes, and 30 minutes is a quick police response time for some of these people. Some of these people are like an hour and a half away from the nearest police response. So you can forget it, right? You can forget it. A lot can trans. The lack can transpire in five Minutes, hour and a half, just forget it. And so these people, you still have a very, like, I'm going to say Old west, but it's certainly much more contemporary than that. But they have that sort of a mentality about it where, you know, they live the reality of nobody is coming to save you because there. In time, because you're too far away from them, because there is so much space out there. And so it's probably not actually 90%, probably, if it's more accurate.
- [45:17]
A
I was just thinking about the times I've been to Wyoming, and I'm like, I don't think I saw that many people. But, you know, I was probably in it.
- [45:24]
B
Right. At least out rural. It was like 20 to 30% of people I saw very conspicuously were carrying a gun. Probably more than that, concealed carry. Because concealed carry, especially with handguns, probably still makes sense in a lot of circumstances. But, like, a lot of people had guns very obviously, and everybody was very open and no, you know, nobody gawked at it. Right. I was probably talking where I was
- [45:44]
A
like, whoa, that's so cool to see.
- [45:47]
B
Yeah, you certainly didn't. You contrast that with, like, that's never gonna work. And it's never gonna work in New York of people walking around with guns in New York.
- [45:57]
A
It's.
- [45:57]
B
They're not gonna.
- [45:58]
A
Yeah, it's. It. It has to be. I mean, look, I love guns, right? Yeah, I think guns are great. I have. I am addicted to spending money on guns.
- [46:08]
B
Me too.
- [46:11]
A
But I sit here and guys on us in the comment, explain to us why we're dumb. But, like, I sit here and after this thing happened, and again, I'm in my 30s. I've loved guns for as long as I can remember. And I'm like, wow, I'm gonna finally be able to do that. And then I sat there and thought, is there any gun I want to carry openly? And I was like. I was sitting there and I literally sat for minutes, and I'm just like, it doesn't change my life at all. I. I was like, the only stuff I could think of was, I think I will ironically do this once just.
- [46:51]
B
Just to do it right. You know, and, like, you know, property carry is, you know, certainly something that I. I don't. I'm not aware of any state that says that you can't.
- [46:59]
A
Yeah.
- [46:59]
B
Carry a gun on your property. So that was. That was already something that you could do openly and certainly at that point. Right. Open carry makes sense. And then you. For people that have long commutes through wilderness. Absolutely makes sense. Or people who are like, you know, going down these two lane highways that stretch forever and ever and might have to commute in the snow. It makes sense because for whatever reason, carjackers like to get people in the snow. It's strange. I don't, it doesn't make sense to me. I was going to car right if I was going to carjack something. Not that I'm thinking about doing this, I would not do it when the weather's that shitty because I don't want to deal with that. It's cold.
- [47:30]
A
I think about card packing all the time and I'm doing it. But yeah, so it's, you know, I, I will say I'm going to do it. I'm gonna try. I have a. Probably just gonna put a Draco on my chest and just be like, just, yeah, just shoot, just do it.
- [47:52]
B
But it's a very interesting, you know, cultural thing. I would, I would. I guess that's my, my sort of thought is that, you know, it's not, it's not cringe or weird for them
- [48:01]
A
to do it right.
- [48:02]
B
Then like you walk into a Walmart in a very populated area.
- [48:06]
A
Walmart, it's all like. That's the thing is it's always Walmart. Like that's. When I was in Alabama, you know, open carry was totally okay and I was living in Tuscaloosa, which is of course like, you know, a non Alabama part of Alabama. But the times I saw people open carry, overwhelming majority Walmart, 1911American flag of some description on the gunner whole. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Like every time. And it's just like, you know, you kind of, when that keeps happening, you kind of go, I just don't want, I just don't want to look like that guy.
- [48:40]
B
I don't want to be like him.
- [48:43]
A
I hate that guy. Everyone hates that guy. Right? But like, you know what though? It does kind of look cool. Like somebody who actually it's, it's the,
- [48:53]
B
it's the main cowboy.
- [48:54]
A
You know,
- [48:57]
B
when the very attractive guy says hello Susan, it's, she's flattered. And when the ugly guy says hello Susan, she's very upset. It's, it's that where it's, you know, except instead of the way he looked, it's the circumstances in which he exists.
- [49:10]
A
Right?
- [49:11]
B
Where it's like if you live somewhere where it makes sense, it's like, oh, that's so cool. And, and it was like, I have to carry my long gun for my 5 minute drive from my suburb to Walmart, it's like, all right. Or it's like I have to have my pancake holster 1911 that I carry with an empty chamber and the hammer down for if there's trouble at Walmart.
- [49:33]
A
Yeah, if there's, there's trouble at the, the Publix. Right.
- [49:38]
B
If there's trouble at Publix, dude, I can have this gun ready to go within seven or eight seconds.
- [49:44]
A
But anyway, so next up, here's another thing that's going to make some of the viewers mad. This is another the trace. So this is one of the weird things where Trump comes in and, and does his little adjustments. So years ago, I actually, I criticized, I wrote something with, with Ilya Shapiro about, hey, the ATF is like telling FFLs to deny transfers to people who have driver licenses that say non binary. That's weird, you know, because you're creating a compliance problem for ffls. Like you're basically. And you're, then you're telling the customer to either select something that isn't on their driver license and so then the FFL has to deny it because it doesn't match. Right. And so I originally suggested just take sex off of it. Who cares? It's not needed to identify the person. And what they did was they added the non binary one. Right. So now we've got the Trump administration coming in and we've got this trace article. Buying a gun is about to get more complicated for non binary people. So basically, Trump had that EO that's, that says everything in the government is going to go back to two benders. All right? And that's going to include the 4473. And it's going to be a binary option. I feel like it's just kind of weird that they're doing this and they actually interviewed me at this article, which is kind of funny. Yeah, the, and I stand by the closing statement here. Rosier, the gun rights attorney said it was frankly stupid for someone the right to consider sacrificing the gun rights of trans people in the interest of notching a perceived culture war win. The Second Amendment says the right of the people. I believe that's a right inherent in you as a human being and it doesn't depend on how you identify. And also, like, we should just never applaud the government denying or frustrating transfers to anyone. And I'd also just like to point out that when the 4473 first came in, and it never should have been a thing, but when it first came in, it was A half postcard. Why the hell is it so, like, why are we. Why is there so much on it?
- [52:30]
B
You know, they keep finding new ways to try and frustrate people and like,
- [52:36]
A
questions also, like, fill out this whole thing about the stuff that we're gonna check on your Knicks check. What. Why just do the next check.
- [52:49]
B
Right. Like, much of this information isn't required to identify you anyway.
- [52:55]
A
Right. Which is. It's stupid. A spokesperson for the liberal gun club told the Trace I told you so in a recent interview. And I don't mean that to be as flippant as it sounds, but we knew, we knew they were going to try this. Now, it's not just trans people. Is. It's people on the left that they are going to try to disarm or political dissidents generally. And I think this is that, you know, this broader weird thing that's leaking out of. But that's. I know it's stupid. I just think it's stupid.
- [53:34]
B
It's stupid that like, like, if they're going to make a change to it, they should remove it altogether because ultimately the Right. Right. You can have ideological goals and feel one thing is more noble than another. Right. I'm not going to opine on that because I frankly don't care.
- [53:50]
A
Yeah.
- [53:50]
B
But the, the, the thing that I think is most relevant to anybody who buys guns is compliance problems for ffls. We saw under Biden that the courts will, for the most part, give the ATF a blank check to revoke ffls, Close them down forever.
- [54:07]
A
Reason for any infraction.
- [54:10]
B
Any infraction. And these infractions can be as minor as somebody forgetting to tell you if they're Hispanic or not Hispanic. Yep.
- [54:16]
A
And I have seen that more than once.
- [54:18]
B
Very frequent one that they're going after is people forgot to say whether or not they're Hispanic because they're like, I'm not Hispanic. I'm not checking a box. But you have to say you're not Hispanic.
- [54:27]
A
Why are you saying.
- [54:29]
B
What does this matter for when checking your background? It doesn't.
- [54:33]
A
And also, why is that the only former empire that we care about?
- [54:39]
B
Yes. It's like, but, but are you Hispanic? It doesn't matter anyway. Okay. All right. But the, the compliance problem.
- [54:47]
A
Are you a Huguenot?
- [54:49]
B
The compliance problem here is that if a individual has a driver's license that says their sex is one thing or another. Right.
- [54:59]
A
Or neither. Well, it says non binary or neither.
- [55:03]
B
Right. Or there's non binary. Right. And they, they come into the gun store and they fill out the form and they mark something that doesn't match their driver's license or their drive. The thing that's on their driver's license can't match the form. You have to, you have to either deny them the transfer, which is strange, or you have to just accept that you're going to be creating a compliance problem for yourself which is, you know, we saw under Biden they'll just revoke your license for that. So then what do you have to do is not sell license news, not sell guns to these people. And I know there's a certain troop of person that will say okay, great, you shouldn't sell guns to people like that anyway. That's, you know, that's fine. Right. You can, you can have that opinion. But the underlying problem here is that this is just one more way for FFLs to lose their licenses. You can believe that these people. Right. You can believe these people should or shouldn't have guns or shouldn't be able to buy whatever. You can have that opinion. I think it's silly to be that wrapped up in it. But.
- [56:05]
A
Right.
- [56:06]
B
You, the problem is is this thing being on the form and its current state at least doesn't manufacture a new compliance problem that FFLs have to worry about, have to train their employees about and have to deal with changing it back to how it was where it's just two options. You can go like oh, based only two genders. Haha. Get owned libtards. Your local gun store is getting shut down in two years, three years.
- [56:32]
A
Yeah, like it's, they have to. And you know like granted this isn't a huge portion of, of the. Right. It's not a huge segment of the population, etc. Etc. That said, you are creating a problem for gun dealers. That's what you are doing.
- [56:52]
B
That's not epic based libs owned. That's. It's just not good because you know, sure, this current ATF has drastically toned down the whole zero tolerance thing but,
- [57:06]
A
but what about next time?
- [57:07]
B
Right.
- [57:07]
A
They don't have to continue doing that during zero tolerance. I saw an FFL get pulled from a five year old violation that they
- [57:15]
B
found and they can go back to that anytime they want to.
- [57:20]
A
Yeah, they can revisit it.
- [57:22]
B
It's not like they needed a rule for it. And you know the worst thing is that the bipartisan Safer Communities act put this more in statute than it was before.
- [57:32]
A
Yep.
- [57:33]
B
And Republicans agreed with this.
- [57:35]
A
Yeah.
- [57:36]
B
So it, it's, you know, it's a, it's a hand Grenade that is being lot new. A culture war hand grenade that is being lobbed at the feet of FFLs, where it's like, deal with it. This is your problem now. Hope you don't lose your license, bud. And I don't. I don't ultimately think that's good for. Regardless of how you interpret being good for Second amendment rights, if you believe that people be meaning people and people should be able to buy guns is good also.
- [58:04]
A
Here, hold on. Let me cut something off at the legs too, because I can already read the comments in my mind's eye that, oh, but if you're mentally ill, you shouldn't be buying guns anyway. It's like, okay, dude. So people often say this every time that, you know, gender question comes up. And I'm. And I'm no gender. Not like, I don't. I'm not into that crap. I'm just a gun rights person. But here's the thing. 922 Prohibiting factors include people who are adjudicated by a court to be mentally incompetent, which is like a insanely high bar, if you want to say and make the public discourse. Oh, if you are mentally ill at all. Right.
- [58:58]
B
If you have a diagnosis or have a condition that's undiagnosed, but everybody can sort of see.
- [59:04]
A
Right.
- [59:04]
B
Because that sort of just like, I don't. I don't know whether or not Musk has a Asperger's or an executive dysfunction diagnosis, but 100 has one. Yeah.
- [59:15]
A
Mentally ill. Right. Let's just, let's go by that. You're gonna say, anyone who's mentally ill shouldn't have a gun.
- [59:24]
B
All right, veterans, bye, bye.
- [59:27]
A
No more gun. Right. Because what's the first thing they say to you when you're doing your exit interview? Like, can you sleep at night? You know, is that the other thing they. And that's a very common diagnosis. Right? And then there's also. My favorite thing is that people are saying, oh, it's the SSRIs. The SSRI are like this and that. Yeah, yeah. 33% of the country. Let's just. Just make sure they can't have guns. Why not? Like, it's the. The, like the level of foot shooting is impressive right now.
- [60:02]
B
Right. Especially when, you know, the question of veterans and mental issues. This isn't a rhetorical thing. The anti gunners have for a long time tried and for a long time had succeeded in barring veterans who get help from the VA for psychological issues. They have attempted to try and bar them or at least frustrate them from being able to own guns. So if they, if they, if they admit to the VA doctor anything that has the VA doctor go there is some risk that you pose to yourself or other people couldn't buy a gun. That's what sad. And, and as far as the way the VA operates, that can be something like you say I can't sleep very well or I, I can see the faces of people that bad things happened to. Right.
- [60:51]
A
Right.
- [60:51]
B
They'll say they can from that infer that you might be a risk. It might be a small risk. But anti gunners would say that you shouldn't be able to own guns if you pose a small risk to yourself due to something that you did thinking you were serving your country. That's really messed up. This is not a hypothetical. They have tried to do this. I don't think giving the government the ability to do that to somebody you don't like ever ends up being a thing that stops at the group you don't like.
- [61:18]
A
I'll take it one step further. I think it is a silly goose thing to do,
- [61:24]
B
but silly migratory bird maneuver.
- [61:27]
A
Yeah. No one likes geese. But you know what everybody likes? Math Corporation guys, go to maf-arms.com and get yourself whatever the hell it is that you want. It's all for sale. Look at this. Brand new reloading dies for the 9 by 25 Dylan. That's a. That's a fine cartucho available reloading dies for you. Just find all of the things. There's a lot of stuff in stock. There's the AKB gun. There's the locking blocks. The 19 Delug 19 locking blocks and parts kits are back in stock. Guys, go to maf-arms.com and use promotional code fud busters or rat man and get yourself a big old juice discount. All right guys, go to maf-arms.com next up. Oh yeah, this is a. This is a frustrating one. So he. At least, it's at least sometimes we see, you know, insane like problematic gun policy that is kind of new and interesting. Right?
- [62:41]
B
Yep.
- [62:42]
A
So on that. This is a. A Chicago doctor. And so we're back to that like 2015 meta of let's listen to the physicians about questions of public policy because they know how to kill people and get away with it. This is a Chicago trauma doctor as a plan to shift the cost of gun violence. This is ostensibly he wants to force a compensation fund for gun violence victims and make gun industry participants pay for it. This is Dr. Anthony Douglas who is a Disgrace to the name medical resident on track to become a trauma and acute care surgeon knows the toll of gun violence. Wow, that's, that's great.
- [63:39]
B
Yeah, he's almost a doctor.
- [63:41]
A
Yeah. Gunshot wound victims arrive without insurance cards, but care comes anyway. The invoices flood upwards to victims families, to hospitals, to Medicaid, to taxpayers. We are subsidizing the cost of firearms. He told me if they actually carried the accountability, guns wouldn't be as cheap as they are. He is the architect of a policy experiment designed to change that math. This is insane. So this is like, this is another incantation of, of the idea that of just cost shifting. So it's insurance in reverse. Right. So normal insurance works by risk pooling. So a bunch of people come together and they understand that there are externalities that they can't guard against. Right. Natural disasters, etc, and even negligence or criminal misconduct of other people. So they get together and they say, hey, let's have this big pile. In case something happens to one of us, we'll all put into this pile so we can take from it. We're gonna pool to guard against the risk. This is a much dumber way of looking at that, which is, hey, there's an externality out there I don't like and I think it's your fault. So you're gonna pool to pay them. Right? So now it's, now it's parties are pooling to protect unknown third parties from a risk caused by an externality.
- [65:37]
B
Right. And the, of course the big problem, like when you with insurance, the re. The way it works is it's all statistics, it's all a risk calculation. And the insurance company just has to make sure it makes 10%. Right. And then it's, it continues to make money so long as the risk exists. And for the sort of risks that get insured, they're not going anywhere.
- [65:54]
A
Right.
- [65:54]
B
The problem with this reverse insurance is you have an unknown number of unknown third parties that are going to have an unknown sort of bill racked up against them. And so while you can still all factor that in, statistically it's going to look really, really weird.
- [66:14]
A
Yeah. And also it just doesn't make sense for the industry to be pooling for the benefit of a criminal third party.
- [66:27]
B
Right.
- [66:28]
A
Like criminal action is always in court considered a superseding cause of harm. So if you believe that the gun industry is vile. Right. In a traditional, like, rational legal perspective, all of the evil that the gun industry baked into the little pistol doesn't matter when someone picks it up. And says, I'm going to do something very funny today. Right. It gets cut off by that person. That's why this all looks so stupid and why it always winds up being so expensive. Because it's not sane math. Like, and the reason it looks this way is because people like Dr. Douglas. Dipshit. Not Dr. Douglas. Right. They treat guns as if they have no utility.
- [67:32]
B
Yep.
- [67:33]
A
We don't have the auto companies pay into the national car accidents fund. Right.
- [67:40]
B
Because, you know, a lot of accidents that are really bad are caused by uninsured drivers. It's weird how that happens. That's. It's probably because they can't get insured. Because, you know, it's probably like an opposite of survivorship. It's like a dire ship bias thing where they don't have insurance because they can't get insured because they drive like a dick. And then they.
- [68:01]
A
They love crashing.
- [68:03]
B
They love it, dude. Like, the big yellow ones. Got to run into those.
- [68:10]
A
It's so easy to hit. But yeah, the. The concept borrows from other privately funded safety nets. For a century, workers compensation has replaced uncertain lawsuit which left both injured workers and employers in limbo. The reliable fund, financed by employers, money covers medical care and lost wages. And the system puts pressure on companies to make jobs safer. The harm in workers comp is the work is at the workplace. How do you not see?
- [68:50]
B
It's like workers comp. Because there's money. This is the end of the similarities.
- [68:54]
A
Okay, but check this out. So check out the plan. Under the plan, a gun company's annual contribution would scale with how often its firearms are recovered in fatal incidents, shootings, and sewer slides. In Illinois, the more frequently a company's guns are found to create public cost, the more it would pay. Hospitals could build a new fund directly for health care costs after a firearm injury. And families could get help with lost wages, emergency relocation, child care, and transportation. So there's no way that anyone would be incentivized to abuse this. This type of thing.
- [69:36]
B
Certainly not.
- [69:38]
A
And also, obviously, the incentives would be correct.
- [69:44]
B
So I said.
- [69:49]
A
For gun companies to make their guns less crimy. You know what this winds up being? It winds up being the cheapest gun as to pay the most. That's all it is.
- [69:59]
B
Yep.
- [70:01]
A
Because it's always going to be an availability issue. Like, we've talked about this in this channel all the time. Toyota, Camry, Corolla. Cars are in a lot of accidents because there's a lot of them. They're cheap. Ish. And people buy them guns. Like Glocks gonna be found a lot of crime scenes. Not because they're very good at crime, it's because they're kind of cheap and they're everywhere. This is dearly regarded this.
- [70:37]
B
Right. And the, you know, I guess since we sort of breezed over it, the way that this would be implemented is that Illinois would have a law or any state seeking to implement this because apparently other states are very interested in this idea, which is great. But this is a second generation, this is how I'd classify as a second generation of anti gun state trying to dodge plaka.
- [71:00]
A
Right.
- [71:01]
B
And placa is that federal law that says that.
- [71:04]
A
Yeah, yeah, you can't sue a gun company for criminal misuse of a product that's not products liability.
- [71:10]
B
And so they've tried to find ways to dodge that like some sort of like a public nuisance harm invocation which like that was lazy in most courts. Even in these anti gun courts have been like yeah, no, that doesn't work.
- [71:23]
A
Yeah, you can't just do that. You can't just rewrite a thousand years of law like that.
- [71:27]
B
The second generation, they're trying to get away from that heartland of plaka and are trying to like break new ground where they're just putting a financial burden on gun companies. So the way this would work is an implementing state would say, hey gun company, if you want to sell your products in our state, you must agree to pay into this fund. And the way you calculate how much you pay into this fund is based off of how many of your guns are used in crimes in our state.
- [71:54]
A
Right. And so but this will work great because of how intensely profitable guns are. Right?
- [72:00]
B
Yeah. The, the estimation is that a company like Smith and Wesson, whose guns do show up fairly frequently in crime would be paying an average of $20 per gun which you look at and say maybe that's not much, but the problem is is that gets passed on to the consumer.
- [72:18]
A
Right.
- [72:19]
B
And now the consumer is ensuring the person who's buying a gun is now ensuring against the harm caused by the criminal conduct of a third party. Right.
- [72:33]
A
That could have been, that could have been like. And here's the thing, what stops like let's say you're Smith and Wesson again to use that example. So the western made a lot of like second and third generation products that of you know, 9 millimeter or and 40 caliber pistols that were police surplus a long time ago and are now free. Right, right. That, that has to have a significant impact. Right. On how they show up in, in Crime. It's just all very stupid. And then on top of that though, this is, this is weird because it's, it presents a strange dormant commerce cause problem. So first they're running into placa and then they're like oh well we just won't do any lawsuits. Haha. We'll just make this big fund that we can draw from for no reason childcare in it.
- [73:32]
B
But.
- [73:33]
A
And, and yeah, no, and it'll be great. It's like okay. And so you're going to charge companies that are certainly not inside of your state for the privilege of selling your products across state lines.
- [73:54]
B
I'm trying to think, has this ever been a problem before? Several, probably not.
- [74:00]
A
I doubt there was a bit of a war that.
- [74:02]
B
But I severely doubt that that was ever a, an implication.
- [74:08]
A
Yeah. But anyway that's once again trauma surgeons, not policy professionals, especially not almost trauma surgeons are not almost policy, almost a policy professional. But tell you this much. You know who is a policy professional with respect to credit card policies? FFL payments guys. FFLPaymentProcessing.com buy FFLS for FFLS and other good businesses. Go to FFLPaymentProcessing.Com give them a call, get set up, get your local gun shop set up. They're leaving money on the table guys. It's that simple. Get the, go to the website there. Next up, this is an interesting one. So this is like in our. In this series of like lawsuits that are designed to harass gun companies, Seattle has joined the fray ensuing Glock for the readily convert a stored machine pistol gun which again is as dumb as it's been every time we've talked about it. But again. So the city is alleging that Glock knowingly allowed its pistols to be modified into machine guns fueling violent crime in Seattle. This of course has, is completely unsupported because Glock quite deliberately did not do that.
- [75:37]
B
Right.
- [75:37]
A
Whenever they did make a machine gun converter very deliberately made it like impossible to be reverse compatible. All the stuff is being done by the Sean Ping himself. He's running the CNCs in Guangzhou. So but yeah, that's. I don't even know how much there is to really say anything. They're talking about a switch proliferation and all this. It's basically.
- [76:07]
B
It's a copycat. It's another one of these lawsuits that's. You're trying to say that Glock has liability for you. Ultimately the weird thing is yes these switches do show up in a lot of seizures and arrests in these major cities. But the interesting Thing is, they are very infrequently actually used to hurt people. Yeah.
- [76:32]
A
Silly things.
- [76:33]
B
There's reasons why that, you know, the, the. The tragic thing is most of the time that. Well, not most. I don't want to say most. A lot of the time that somebody ends up being hurt by one of these things, it's a completely innocent bystander, like a thousand yards away. Because as they spray these things through the night, those bullets have to land somewhere. And in urban areas. Right. They end up landing in somebody unrelated to this feud about who's the better SoundCloud rapper. Right. Shot. And that's unfortunate. Yeah. But there's not a lot of people numerically that this actually happens to. Right. So these lawsuits are trying to say that Glock's liable, but not for a particular person or a lot of people getting hurt, but because it's possible for someone to convert it at all. Which is really, really ridiculous because, you know, ultimately the same logic can be ascribed to a great many number of firearms. Like AR15s absolutely can be wrapped up in the same thing, because all it takes is one actual machine gun converter to drop into the gun and then you're there, which is, again, ridiculous. It shouldn't work this way. And ultimately Plaka should duplica should be the resolution to these things, because gun companies cannot be made liable for the criminal misuse of their products.
- [77:54]
A
On top of that, it's just like. It's just like. It's insane.
- [77:59]
B
Right?
- [78:01]
A
Where's the actual harm? You're alleging. You're alleging that somebody else has modified this gun. And, and so, so Glock didn't completely stop production and make it so that your favorite state, California, like, couldn't get its. It's just stupid. It's just too. But. And I love this little bit because here's that look, here's how you can tell that the Glock is the switch problem. Right. According to the city's complaint, Seattle has seen an alarming rise in crimes involving Glock pistols modified with switches. In 2020, Seattle police officers collected 2,514 spent casings from the scenes of shootings. In 2023, that number had soared to 5,746 casings.
- [78:52]
B
There's a lot of bullets being fired. That's not great because they're being fired in criminal contexts here. Right. But I, like, like, is there an increase in harm?
- [79:05]
A
Right.
- [79:06]
B
I. How about this? I don't know that I've seen data to say one way or the other, but I would not be Surprised if the number of people hurt? Certainly the number of people hurt per bullet is way down. Right. So they're saying, like, well, there's way more bullets being fired. The number of people being hit by bullets has to be lower. It has to be lower because of the general controllability of a Glock with a switch on it.
- [79:27]
A
Right. This is also funny. The lawsuit alleges that Glock has known for decades that its semi automatic pistols can be easily converted into machine guns, noting that Gaston Glock, company's founder, saw a prototype Glock switch as early as 1988, when he told the inventor to stop development and leave it as a curiosity. The lawsuit alleges that from that meeting, Glock knew that anyone could create a simple device that turned a Glock 17 into a machine gun. And goes on to say that despite years of rising violence and growing alarm from law enforcement, Glock has made no meaningful effort to change its weapons or limit the spread of these conversions.
- [80:06]
B
Limit the spread of these conversions. What are they supposed to do, like send a hit squad to China?
- [80:12]
A
And unlike other manufacturers who have voluntarily adopted safer standards, the city alleges Glock intentionally chooses to maintain a design that facilitates illegal conversion. Okay,
- [80:32]
B
okay. Because this is for YouTube. I won't give specifics, but I guess the three of the three major guns that cops are using these days for their service guns, it's really only the 320 that doesn't have a switch for it. Because there is a switch for M&PS. There's certainly switches for Glocks. Right. So like, yeah, the other manufacturers. Yeah, I guess really the big one. Right. That I'm trying to say is the M and P does have a switch that exists for it. And if people want to point to the like, oh, well, other manufacturers don't have this problem.
- [81:08]
A
Who?
- [81:09]
B
Walther and Sig, who are you? Are the, like the third and fourth numerically of police officers using these things? Seems like the number, number two choice for cops is these guns that you say are like one step away from being machine guns. That's really weird. Why would it be that way?
- [81:28]
A
Because you should go to the revolver.
- [81:31]
B
Because of course, ultimately the design characteristics and choices that went into these firearms weren't such that they were trying to make things that were one step away from being machine guns. It was such that they're trying to make a reliable pistol that people would want to buy that's also affordable.
- [81:46]
A
And would you believe, would you believe that a reliable pistol that's also affordable doesn't have 18 layers of mechanical interlocked between the like
- [82:01]
B
even stacking up interlocks. Right. The one that I always like to get back to is the high power. The Browning high power is again not going to give specifics. The Browning high power is even easier to make switch because the breaking of parts or installing parts that were not fit in a particular way. Right. New factory fresh parts can result in things that make the gun shoot faster than perhaps originally intended. The high power has this quirk happen with multiple different parts in the gun. Can either break or wear funny or not be fit correctly to the gun such that this will then happen. But of course they're not going to say the high power is a problem even though it's drastically easier to convert because it doesn't need additional parts to convert it. It can just be because there's not that many of them out there or whatever. Right. So yeah, ultimately the thing that they're decrying here is that they can't do anything about it except piss and moan. And so here's the pissing and the moaning.
- [82:59]
A
They're doing a great job of it. You know, just like with the other thing, it all comes down to popularity.
- [83:05]
B
That's.
- [83:05]
A
That's the end of it. You know what I got an example of though here? Look at that. Look who's open carrying in 1911. Whoa.
- [83:15]
B
That's what you look like by the way. You look just like that if you
- [83:18]
A
look like that 200 year old French woman green. Yeah, but yeah, we got guys, look. This is the Patriot Patch Co. This is the path of the month Patch of the month club. This is what you get every month. You get this nice cool little surprise. You get a sticker with like, you get three levels of the art, right? You get the original concept sketch, you get the actual patch made of that nice soft pvc. And look, it's three dimensional. See? Three dimensional. And you get the sticker right? That's, that's like. I don't think I've had one like that before. But. But yeah, Patch of the month club. Patriot Patch has been the longest time supporter of the show. You can use promotional code TWIG10 to get yourself a discount. So guys, show them the love, show them the, the spirit. They also got new. Oh yeah, look, I saw this the other day. More awesome stuff is now available on Patriot Patch Co. And there's some cool stuff.
- [84:23]
B
Whoa.
- [84:24]
A
Yeah. Little front towards enemy, front toward fatty little claymore magnets and keychains and stuff. It's kind of cool. Really cool. So guys, check them out. Patriotpatch Co use promotional code TWIG10. Join the Patch of the month club. Get your little.
- [84:45]
B
Get your little surprise.
- [84:53]
A
It's 3.
- [84:54]
B
16am yep.
- [85:04]
A
All right, guys, We've got a FUD blaster coming out soon. It's a. It's the COP 357 Magnum Derringer gun. So be sure to check out. Be sure to subscribe to FUD Blasters to check that one out. Ivan, you got anything to say?
- [85:22]
B
Never. I like shotguns a lot. The shotgun started getting good with the Browning Auto 5. From that point, John Browning solved all of the questions that you'd want to solve in in an automatic shotgun. And the progression past there was just a series of incremental improvements trying to change things, such as the general.
- [86:19]
A
This podcast has been a production of the Firearms Radio Network. For more, visit firearmsradio.net.