This Week in Guns 471 – Machine Gun Ban in Trouble? DOJ Sues Colorado & ATF Reforms Begin

Summary

This Week in Guns 471 – Machine Gun Ban in Trouble? DOJ Sues Colorado & ATF Reforms Begin

Podcast: This Week in Guns
Host: Matthew Rosier
Co-host: Ivan (Rat Man)
Date: June 5, 2026
Episode Summary:
This episode offers an in-depth and highly opinionated breakdown of key developments in the U.S. firearms policy landscape, including the DOJ’s lawsuit against Colorado’s magazine ban, challenges to the federal machine gun ban, and significant proposed ATF reforms. Matthew and Ivan also analyze current state legislative trends, from Virginia’s new assault weapons law to California’s “gun-blocking” 3D printer bill, and wrap up with thoughts on public narratives around firearms, industry updates, and media “pearl clutching” over antique weapons.

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Main Theme

The episode revolves around dramatic recent developments in gun legislation, regulation, and litigation at the state and federal levels. The hosts provide both legal insight and cultural commentary, focusing on government actions that appear to both advance and threaten Second Amendment rights.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. DOJ Lawsuit Against Colorado Magazine Ban

• The federal government, for the first time, is suing a state (Colorado) over a gun control law on Second Amendment grounds.

• The complaint attacks the state’s ban on “large capacity” magazines, arguing these are actually standard and in common use, and therefore protected.

  “Magazines capable of holding more than 15 rounds are in fact standard capacity ... Law abiding Americans own and use ... hundreds of millions of magazines such as those banned by the state.”
  — Matthew Rosier [03:21]

• The hosts commend the move, while criticizing the rhetorical “word games” both sides play (e.g., what counts as “large capacity”). They view the DOJ’s posture as politically unprecedented and likely intended to create a path to the appellate courts rather than seek a district victory.

  “Five years ago, I didn’t think we’d be living in an America where this was happening at all.”
  — Matthew Rosier [05:25]

Timestamps

• Suit details and commentary: [02:24] – [11:51]

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2. The Supreme Court, Circuit Courts, and the “Word Games” Problem

• Extended reflection on how Supreme Court rulings (e.g., Bruen) haven’t solved entrenched judicial resistance, especially in anti-gun circuits.

• The hosts lampoon lower courts’ tendency to find “historical analogs” to uphold bans, citing the Ninth Circuit as an example.

  “Nothing is an arm. Like there is a primordial gun and that is the only thing that’s protected.”
  — Ivan [12:54]

Timestamps

• Judicial philosophy and frustration: [11:51] – [14:14]

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3. State-Level Trends: Virginia, Assault Weapons, and Policy Shifts

• Lawsuits follow swiftly after Virginia passes a new “assault weapon” law. The Associated Press map shows significant parts of the population now under a semi-auto ban.

• Ivan predicts anti-gun groups will shift their narrative toward handgun machine gun conversions ("switches") and away from “assault weapons” as legal threats to those bans escalate.

  “I think they see that the anti-gunners ... once they lose assault weapons, they’re going to need something else.”
  — Ivan [15:21]

• The anti-gun political playbook relies, according to the hosts, on incremental restrictions rather than dramatic, effective reforms.

  “If your goal is, ‘I want to restore the castle,’ no one’s going to care if you glued one pebble back, right?”
  — Matthew [17:55]

Timestamps

• State laws and political theory: [13:45] – [19:40]

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4. Nonprofit Funding and the Gun Control Lobby

• Briefly, the hosts lampoon “money burning” and possible “money laundering” in anti-gun nonprofits, focusing on their low-impact but high-cost social media campaigns.
• The anti-gun lobbying machine is sustained by billionaire and corporate money and, in some cases, indirect government funding.

Timestamps

• Nonprofit funding: [19:03] – [21:47]

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5. “Assault Weapon” Terminology & Cultural Ownership

• Extended riff on the value of the term “assault weapon”; the hosts argue gun owners should "own" the term, given the historical and practical self-defense utility of such firearms.

• Critique of using “modern sporting rifle” as a euphemism for defensive rifles.

  “I want to own the term assault weapon. ... I want people to have mechanisms to protect themselves. ... It’s in case something bad happens.”
  — Matthew [21:47] & [24:33]

Timestamps

• “Assault weapon” term debate and context: [21:47] – [32:15]

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6. Competition Shooting and Preparedness

• Historical discussion of the Civilian Marksmanship Program and how competitive rifle shooting has evolved from militaristic training to “sport” in the U.S., reflecting changing social attitudes post-Vietnam.
• Commentary on the need for honesty about the defensive purpose underlying most civilian firearms ownership and training.

Timestamps

• Shooting sports and culture: [25:05] – [32:15]

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7. Machine Guns & The Fifth Circuit’s Discomfort

• Recent 5th Circuit opinions suggest the court is open to reconsidering the constitutionality of the post-1986 machine gun ban (922(o))—a huge potential shift.

• The judges criticize the lack of historical basis for the federal machine gun ban and hint at its constitutional weakness.

• But caution that “a good case” should come from the right party (not a criminal defendant).

  “Our court’s approach to the Second Amendment is historically bankrupt.”
  — Quoting Judge Oldham, cited by Matthew [35:08]

Timestamps

• Fifth Circuit & machine gun ban: [33:09] – [38:16]

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8. The ATF’s “New Era of Reform”

Overview

A surprisingly large collection of proposed, active, and finalized agency rule changes, some unwinding Biden-era priorities and others modernizing how the gun industry interacts with regulation.

Major Categories & Highlights

A. Repeal Group

• Rollbacks include the Biden pistol brace rule, the “engaged in the business” rule, and portions of the bump stock ban now null following Supreme Court action.
• Removal of the Youth Handgun Safety Act notice (described as useless paperwork).

B. Modernization

• New 4473 background check form (more streamlined, but not universally liked by FFLs).
• Allowing easier use of electronic bound books and rolling back records retention periods.
• Formalizing use of online validation for FFL transfers.

C. Reduced Burdens

• Loosening interstate NFA item transfer rules, new joint/spousal NFA registration, scrapping local police notifications for NFA transactions, and clarifying “FOPA” firearm travel protections for gun owners in restrictive states.

  “... this is intended to give FOPA more teeth. ... [It] tries to clarify that when you’re moving ... your journey is supposed to be covered.”
  — Matthew [51:29]

D. Clarifications and Industry Streamlining

• Guidance for manufacturers and importers (e.g., marking, business premises, “dual use” receivers).
• Harmonizing definitions and rule references to updated statutes and international trade law.

E. Alignment and Technical Tweaks

• Updating NFA tax regs to account for $0 transfer tax on certain items.
• Accepting ATF background checks for suppressors in lieu of redundant dealer checks.

Timestamps

• Full ATF reforms discussion: [38:39] – [68:20]

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9. California’s “Gun-Detecting” 3D Printer Law

• California attempts to mandate “gun-blocking technology” on all 3D printers sold in-state, and criminalizes efforts to disable or circumvent such software.

• The hosts ridicule the technical impossibility and prophesy the law’s likely unworkability and anti-consumer impact.

  “In a very early version ... they had pseudocode: Check if it’s a gun. If it’s a gun, you can’t print it.”
  — Ivan [70:43]

  “Unless a gun spits out fried bologna, you can’t sell the gun in our state ... It’s right baloney machine of guns.”
  — Ivan [74:35]

Timestamps

• California 3D printer bills and analysis: [68:44] – [77:22]

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10. Illinois “Glock Ban” and Shift to Handgun Machine Gun Conversions

• Illinois is following Maryland/California with bills to ban “convertible” pistols and “switches”; sweeping up standard Glock handguns.

• Definitions get absurdly granular (e.g., “common household tools” cited by law text).

• The hosts argue these new laws are performance art, designed purely to generate electoral “wins” for anti-gun politicians as courts are poised to invalidate assault weapon laws.

  “Do they think this will solve any problems? Hell no. ... This is anti-gun performance art.”
  — Ivan [80:41]

• Also noted: Historic and ongoing attempts by anti-gunners to pressure the ATF to classify common semi-automatics as machine guns.

Timestamps

• Illinois and “switch” laws: [77:32] – [86:05]

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11. The “Switch”/Glock Machine Gun Debate & Readily Convertible Guns

• Discussion of the relatively simple mechanical changes that convert popular firearms like AR-15s and Glocks to fully automatic (noting the original design didn’t intend for easy automatic conversion).
• Predicting ongoing political efforts to declare many popular firearms as machine guns, with anti-gunners continuously moving the goalposts.

Timestamps

• Glock & “readily convertible” gun mechanics: [86:05] – [87:48]

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12. Sig P320 Litigation Update

• The Second Circuit revives a case against SIG Sauer over accidental discharges involving P320 pistols (“Glock leg” incidents), signaling continued legal pressure on manufacturer liability.

Timestamps

• P320 lawsuit update: [89:09] – [90:40]

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13. Associated Press “Pearl Clutching” Over Antique Guns

• Media “scare piece” draws attention to the lack of federal oversight on antique and replica black powder guns.

• The hosts lampoon the alarmism, noting that criminal misuse of muskets is logistically improbable (“Most criminals ... would mess themselves up pretty fast”).

• Regulatory loopholes exist, but are largely inconsequential due to the skill and effort needed to operate muzzleloaders safely.

  “Putting 165 grains of powder into a gun and then putting your hands in front of it is insane. Yeah, it’s crazy.”
  — Ivan [94:28]

Timestamps

• Muskets and media narratives: [90:40] – [96:14]

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “Five years ago, I didn’t think we’d be living in an America where this was happening at all.”
  — Matthew [05:25] (On the DOJ lawsuit)

• “This strikes me as a lawsuit that is intended to get to the appeals court. I don’t think that they’re looking for ... a big knockout victory in the trial court.”
  — Ivan [06:59]

• “I want to own the term assault weapon. ... it’s okay to have military weapons, be prepared to use them and everything’s fine with that.”
  — Matthew [21:47] & Ivan [22:33]

• “Our court’s approach to the Second Amendment is historically bankrupt.”
  — 5th Circuit Judge Oldham (quoted by Matthew) [35:08]

• “If your goal is, ‘I want to restore the castle,’ no one’s going to care if you glued one pebble back, right? ... It’s really frustrating in that respect.”
  — Matthew [17:55]

• “Putting 165 grains of powder into a gun ... is insane. Yeah, it’s crazy.”
  — Ivan [94:28]

• “In a very early version [of the 3D printer bill], they had ... pseudocode: Check if it’s a gun. If it’s a gun, you can’t print it.”
  — Ivan [70:43]

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Episode Structure & Important Segments (w/ Timestamps)

• Intro to topics and format: [00:31] – [02:24]
• DOJ Sues Colorado: Complaint analysis: [02:24] – [11:51]
• Circuit court behavior, Supreme Court hopes: [11:51] – [14:14]
• State bans & political strategies: [13:45] – [19:40]
• Gun control lobbying, nonprofit funding: [19:03] – [21:47]
• Assault weapon terminology & culture: [21:47] – [32:15]
• 5th Circuit and the federal machine gun ban: [33:09] – [38:16]
• ATF Reform Package breakdown: [38:39] – [68:20]
• California 3D printer ban and analysis: [68:44] – [77:22]
• Illinois (“Glock ban”) and the “switch” pivot: [77:32] – [87:48]
• SIG P320 update and Associated Press on blackpowder guns: [89:09] – [96:14]

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Analysis & Closing Thoughts

• The episode is heavily laced with legal critique, political cynicism, and dark humor, offering well-grounded but sharp insights into the patchwork of U.S. firearms law.
• Both hosts call for greater clarity, sanity, and honesty—on both sides of the gun debate—but remain pessimistic about near-term improvement in public or judicial discourse.
• Despite skepticism, they acknowledge positive (if limited or tentative) movement in ATF reforms and the federal government’s new willingness to challenge state-level gun bans.

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For Listeners: How to Follow Up

• Those interested in policy development should monitor further DOJ actions in Colorado, ongoing Fifth Circuit machine gun litigation, and the implementation (or judicial treatment) of coming ATF regulations.
• The real-world impact of California’s 3D printer initiative and similar laws in other states will likely be felt first by hobbyists and small businesses.
• The “machine gun conversion” debate and related state laws (targeting Glocks and similar pistols) may be the next battleground for both litigation and lobbying.

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Engage with the hosts:
Comment on the episode’s page with your take on one article that resonated with you, give five reasons why, and reply to two others for the full “class participation” experience, as Matthew and Ivan request in their outro [97:37].

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Sponsors Mentioned (genially, not as content):

• Pew Locker, Patriot Patch Company, FFL Payments, Traditional Arms, MAF Corporation

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Summary by This Week in Guns Podcast Summarizer (June 2026)

Transcript

[Matthew Rosier]

Stop using spreadsheets. Track your collection with serial numbers, pictures and more. Log your round counts, store NFA paperwork securely and even help your family after you're gone with our Widow View, upgrade your digital armory today at Pew Locker. Did you know I uploaded an unedited one last week?

[Ivan (Rat Man)]

Last time?

[Matthew Rosier]

Yeah, that was awful.

[Ivan (Rat Man)]

It was just a long, awkward pauses.

[Matthew Rosier]

Yeah, it was terrible. Speaking of which, hello, everyone. Welcome back to THIS Week IN guns, brought to you by Patriot Patch Company, FFL Payments, Traditional Arms and Math Corporation. The show offers commentary on the latest firearms industry news, information and buzz. I'm your host, Matthew Rosier, and I'm joined by the Rat Man. How you doing, Ivan?

[Ivan (Rat Man)]

I'm doing good. How about you?

[Matthew Rosier]

Doing okay. It's been exactly one week again as promised, and we've got a pretty decent lineup of stories for you guys, some interesting developments and then some stuff that we talked about last time that kind of came through specifically. We're going to get into the ATF's new era of reform and what the hell that means. And I'll give you a spoiler. It's 90, but 10. Cool.

[Ivan (Rat Man)]

Yeah.

[Matthew Rosier]

We've got this, this episode, I guess. You know, it might be a good idea giving people a preview of what's going to come. We're going to talk about the federal government suing Colorado over its magazine ban. We're going to talk about the Virginia assault weapons ban and the reaction from that. We're going to talk about the Fifth Circuit signaling unease with the machine gun ban and what that might mean. We're going to talk about that new era of reform. We're going to talk about California passing a new bill because, you know, you have to stack bands on top of each other. This is going to be a, a ban on evading the 3D gun file ban. We're going to talk about Illinois's Glock ban, P320 litigation and the Associated Press pearl clutching over muskets. So all that and more today for you on THIS Week IN guns. So let's, let's get right into it. Let's talk about the doj. Right. We have here. We talked about this last time. It was like there was some posturing going on signaling what was going to go on. But it happened now.

[Ivan (Rat Man)]

The US like the day after we recorded DOJ was like, surprise.

[Matthew Rosier]

Yeah.

[Ivan (Rat Man)]

Yesterday's yesterday's headlines is today's news.

[Matthew Rosier]

Yep. Yeah. So this is the lawsuit that was filed in the District of Colorado. And let's just read the introduction because I scrolled down and it's only a page, so that's good. Plaintiff. The United States of America submits the following complaint against the state of Colorado. And so yeah, it Talks about the Second Amendment protecting an individual right and. Colorado rev. Stat. 1812302 the magazine ban makes it a crime to sell, transfer or possess in the state a large capacity magazine as defined in 181212301 sub 2amagazine ban uses politically charged rhetoric to describe the arms it bans. The magazine ban's characterization of these magazines as large capacity is a misnomer because magazines capable of holding more than 15 rounds are in fact standard capacity. Checkmate. Liberal. But magazines for many popular forums including the AR15 rifle, the most popular rifle in America. The United States will not adopt the state's ten dentious terms.

[Ivan (Rat Man)]

That's a. That's a five dollar word right there. Yeah.

[Matthew Rosier]

Instead, for purpose of this complaint, the term banned magazine shall have the same meaning as the term large capacity magazine. Anyway. Yeah. Law abiding Americans own and use the lawful for lawful purposes. Hundreds of millions of magazines such as those banned by the state attached to magazine is an integral part of most semi automatic firearms including the Air 15 rifle. As such they are covered by the Second Amendment's right to keep and bear arms. The magazine ban is a ban on arms in common use for lawful o. The state's magazine ban is a ban on. On an arm in common use for lawful by law barding citizens. Therefore, the magazine ban violates the second amendment and the United States brings this action to vindicate the rights of Colorado citizens whose rights have been and are continuing to be violated by defendants.

[Ivan (Rat Man)]

It's a good typo there was. Yeah, put it, put it back up real quick. Put it back up.

[Matthew Rosier]

Yeah. The, the, the.

[Ivan (Rat Man)]

The common lawful. Common use for lawful by law beauty biting citizens is really good. The other one that like makes me twitch is that a detachable magazine is an integral part.

[Matthew Rosier]

Yeah, that's.

[Ivan (Rat Man)]

Listen up libtard. You want to play word games? Words no longer have meanings. Yeah. It.

[Matthew Rosier]

This is. Look, it's awesome that this, that this is happening. Right. Like five years ago I didn't think we'd be living in an America where this was happening at all.

[Ivan (Rat Man)]

Absolutely not. Yeah.

[Matthew Rosier]

So badass. But holy. Guys. Like this is horrible. And you know, not to say that the lawsuit is horrible or anything like that, but this is just like so back of the hand. Right. Like.

[Ivan (Rat Man)]

Right. This was certainly, certainly maybe the best part of this to preview is are they doing something? Yes. And Something is infinitely better than what we have ever gotten ever. However, in maybe depending on how you want to chalk this up, you know, maybe this is the government's a team and this is just what they do because they. You so infrequently, the government goes on the offense for your rights. Usually they just defend their own encroachments of them. And typically speaking, they're pretty good at that. So, you know, it may be that even if they've got their crack team on it, what's their. What's their crack team to say? Because being the US Federal government in this posture, in this footing is a little weird, right? It's. It's certainly unbroken ground because again, this is like this sort of thing has not been done before, right?

[Matthew Rosier]

Yeah. Look, it's okay. People make mistakes. Humans ultimately write these things. But if it does seem.

[Ivan (Rat Man)]

If I had to estimate. Yeah. I didn't want to say it because I didn't remember for sure, but Barry Arrington is the one whose signature is on here anyway. I'm sure he worked with other people and preparing it. This strikes me as a lawsuit that is intended to get to the appeals court. I don't think that they're looking for, like, a big knockout victory in the. In the trial court there. And I think. I think the easiest way to see that is in the introduction and then throughout this. They. They take a slant, which is that, oh, they've been playing word games. Pay attention to our word games instead of theirs, please. Which. There is a temperature in the room when it comes to the. The debate in the courts around these things are necessarily political courts. The Supreme Court has indicated a willingness in past rulings to delve into the word games. So, like, as much as painful as it is and as much as it makes me want to roll my eyes and gouge. Gouge my eyes out more so than roll them. Like, the. All magazines are standard because one gun ever came with them. So they're standard.

[Matthew Rosier]

Yeah, it's just. So. I'm sorry. Like. And so, like, Barry, you know, he's doing great work. He's doing a lot of work, and, you know, it's hard, right? He's. And I know that he is taking the. The lead on a lot of this stuff. So there's one guy really busting his ass doing all this stuff. Right. But, like, the political posturing is stupid. We need to stop.

[Ivan (Rat Man)]

Right?

[Matthew Rosier]

Because, like, you're presupposing when you say this, it's like, I'm not gonna. I'm not Gonna call it a large capacity because it's like. Oh, because 31 rounds not okay.

[Ivan (Rat Man)]

Right.

[Matthew Rosier]

You know, like what does that mean? It's like, do you find the, the average capacity of the magazine that ships with firearms and say plus one and then that's, that's a magic line in the sand that like justifies differential treatment? I don't think so. I think that's stupid. You know, it would be better to just say this is what they call them, they call it large capacity magazines, their arms.

[Ivan (Rat Man)]

So you call it whatever they're. It's up to people to make decisions about what they want to use to defend themselves. And these things absolutely can be used that way. And I'm sure. Right. That's what their argument will boil down to. It's just that the, the grandstanding that it takes to get there is frustrating. Not necessarily because the pro gun side here indulges in it, but of course, just to back up one step, this is the doj. It is a necessarily outwardly political institution that is being politicized in defense of gun rights. Which is cool. Which is of course this is, this is always the way that they're going to posture is hey, vote for us so we can keep doing these things. So if they're going to throw the buzzwords and the semantics and the word games and they're necessarily right, it's going to happen.

[Matthew Rosier]

Right.

[Ivan (Rat Man)]

But at the end of the day, it's not something that is annoying as it is to see. Right. It's kind of got to be in there because that's the, the way the chessboard has been set at this point because of the way that the gun debate has gone for the past 30 years is the one side relies on a counterfactual and, and the best the other side can do to combat it is come up with an equally absurd counterfactual. And then the courts rule based off of something that isn't these counterfactuals because they have a prevailing opinion that they had before the case was even decided, which is constitutional law in general. But with the second Amendment, it seems like the ninth Circuit is like a case study in this where it's, there's, there's, there is no anti gun law so ridiculous that the 9th Circuit won't look at it and go, oh, there was an analog way back when that had completely different law for different, completely different reasons. But in our made up version of applying Bruin, which was a test that was meant to punish us, we're just going to disregard it. Anyway.

[Matthew Rosier]

Yeah, no, but, but I will say that like the, you know, the, the framework in the DOJ's complaint is all correct. And you know, and we'd expect that from Barry because Barry's been beating this drum for a while. You know, he knows how to do it. So it's all laid out correctly to win. Right. As far as what will happen in the district court in Colorado, that's a different story. But it's, you know, they hit all the right points and you know it. If anyone is taking their job seriously, and I mean that in the, you know, courts, they should win. And so we'll see what happens when they inevitably don't. Because you know, the gun issue, right. If it's guns, you have to break your spine in order to allow the government to do whatever it's doing that.

[Ivan (Rat Man)]

And speaking of, hopefully one day the Supreme Court will give us an affirmative, clear, coherent answer on this issue that the, the anti gun circuits come up with a new incredibly tortured way to ignore. I'm looking.

[Matthew Rosier]

Yeah, that's the funny thing.

[Ivan (Rat Man)]

Looking forward to it.

[Matthew Rosier]

When Bruin came down, it wasn't that long ago. I remember I was like, thank God. It's, it's like this insane semantic nonsense is done. And it's like, right. And then immediately like the second, fourth and ninth circuits are like, oh yeah. Like we hadn't seen the start of it yet.

[Ivan (Rat Man)]

So we can only hope that the Supreme Court this is like, is like opening up the valve on the Hopium tanks here and take a big old hit. I can only hope that the Supreme Court sees the lower circuit just outwardly defi. Like the test in Bruin wasn't that confusing. And these circuits are just like. But what if it was. What if we made this impossible?

[Matthew Rosier]

Yeah, he said two steps was one too many. But anyway, so here's step one and here's step two. And sometimes we put them in this order like.

[Ivan (Rat Man)]

Yes, step one is. Is it an arm? And let me be clear. Nothing, Nothing, nothing. That's a funny thing though. Instead nothing is an arm. Like there is a primordial gun and that is the only thing that's protected. And it probably can't even fire.

[Matthew Rosier]

Yeah. And the other, the other interesting thing is that the federal government has consistently taken the position that nothing is an arm. And now we have the DOJ taking the correct position that a magazine is an arm.

[Ivan (Rat Man)]

So.

[Matthew Rosier]

But anyway, like speaking of, of times, you, you know, I've never seen an analog. We've got. Yeah, the, the new Virginia Assault Weapon law is in. I'm sure you've seen emails from like every online gun seller ever that's like buy it today.

[Ivan (Rat Man)]

Bye, bye, bye. Right.

[Matthew Rosier]

Like I saw, like I saw a bunch of companies that are like we got, we got this many of these just for Virginians set aside so order which is just like, just sucks so much. But yeah, in record time the lawsuits came in from, from the gun rights groups. So that's pretty cool. Oh, look at this map. Look at the Associated Press has a little map.

[Ivan (Rat Man)]

State prohibitions on semi automatic firearms.

[Matthew Rosier]

Yeah. And see we have ban and no ban.

[Ivan (Rat Man)]

And then the funny thing is those orange states are like almost 40% of the country's population which is just like.

[Matthew Rosier]

Yeah,

[Ivan (Rat Man)]

hurts the brain.

[Matthew Rosier]

Yeah, I've never seen it represented like this. It's interesting. Maryland, Delaware, Virginia, Illinois, Washington, California and Hawaii. It's interesting that the Associated Press would put this up because it's probably like counter to the narrative. They press doesn't have a narrative. But anyways, yeah, yeah, it is interesting

[Ivan (Rat Man)]

that they'd even characterize it as. It's just restrictions on semi automatic firearms. And you know, maybe the Associated Press is trying to get ahead of this curve because I. Well, I'll elaborate on it more for the later story specifically looking at Glock bands, but I've got a theory that they're like new hyper fixation on Glock switches which like to put everything in context in terms of guns that are actually used in violent crime to commit the sort of atrocities that.

[Matthew Rosier]

What do you mean handguns?

[Ivan (Rat Man)]

Yeah, that people don't like. Handguns are obviously the most responsible. Rifles are in the minority there. But they have long obsessed over the subset of rifles they consider assault weapons. But it seems as though the Supreme Court is poised to snatch that apple out of their mouth and so they need something else. Right. Because there are some seats in federal Congress where you can get elected just by running on gun control. Right. There are some seats. Historically that's just what it's been is you run on gun control and you got them. I think they see that the anti gunners Democrats see that as a threat, a threat vector at least that once they lose assault weapons they're going to need something else. And so now they've latched on to something that's used in even fewer violent crimes. Now violent crimes that result in atrocities is maybe how I should preface that because by all of the data available, switches on Glocks are used in quite a number of violent crimes. But then the number of people that end up getting hurt in them is generally lower. Of course, the people who get hurt then tragically end up being bystanders more often than not. But it's a, it's a sort of interesting thing that their pivot, you know, they, they, they abandoned handguns in the 1990s, 2000s, especially by the time Heller came down. They abandoned trying to outwardly ban all handguns, switched then to say, well, let's ban these assaulty rifles and now they're going to pivot from that to be okay. But handguns that could become machine guns with the addition of a already banned machine gun conversion device. It's such an incredible pivot and I think it betrays ultimately that their position isn't print. Like, as if anybody needed this, right? If anybody in the audience needed this, this understanding the anti gunner's position here isn't, isn't principled. It's not like they have a clear guiding goal where it's like, let's target the things that cause the most problem and try to do the most good to. And what we can all agree, right, People dying by guns isn't great. But it's not like that's what their policy is.

[Matthew Rosier]

Unless it looks really cool.

[Ivan (Rat Man)]

Unless it looks really cool. I know their, their policy really is to just try and get the most publicity and cause the most ire for gun owners because they feel that that helps them win elections one way or the other.

[Matthew Rosier]

I mean, the terminal goal, right, is and always has been to ban guns. Yes, right. And so it's.

[Ivan (Rat Man)]

And they don't even have to be effective in that. And that's the funny thing, right, is they don't have to be effective in banning it. They just have to be good enough at saber rattling that they evoke a reaction from the pro gun side that then they can campaign on.

[Matthew Rosier]

Right? The funny thing is, like, it's very easy to be an anti gun activist because anything is a win. Anything like a restriction on, you know, waiting periods, it's a win because it's just a little bit of friction. It's just a little bit, you know, ammo, background checks, micro stamping, right? They haven't gotten that in, in most places yet. But like increasing attacks on ammunition by 0.1%, it's a huge win for them because you get like when your goal is, I'm going to take down this castle, and you reach in and grab a pebble, right? You can hold it up and say, I took this down. But when your goal is, I want to restore the castle, no One's going to care if you glued one pebble back, right? You have to actually move the needle. So it's really frustrating in that respect. But I guess that's, that's why they're able to stay so motivated.

[Ivan (Rat Man)]

That and millions of dollars of money from Bloomberg et al.

[Matthew Rosier]

Yeah, I mean, well, that's.

[Ivan (Rat Man)]

Yeah, but so there was a. Robert Mono and Custis were doing, I didn't want to say auditing. They were poking fun at the nonprofit filings from Everytown and Brady and all of these other sorts of groups were like, they're paying social media managers like six figure salaries. They get like 20, 30 views per post they make on their social media. It's like, dude, yeah, it's awesome. Like, like in, in, in a world where we all could sort of sit down and agree that that looks, that kind of looks like money laundering is what it looks like. Because like in any world besides the non profit world.

[Matthew Rosier]

Well, no, it's just, it's a money burning party. Right? Because they look, some people donate money to these groups. The vast, overwhelming, preposterous majority of the money they get are endowments from corpos and mega billionaires.

[Ivan (Rat Man)]

Like that we even saw during like the time that Doge was maybe going to like make the government better or something.

[Matthew Rosier]

And then they started fighting.

[Ivan (Rat Man)]

The government was even funding groups that would then funnel money to anti gun groups. And of course they can say that like, oh, I mean really what it is, is it's, you know, legalized money laundering through non profits.

[Matthew Rosier]

Right?

[Ivan (Rat Man)]

They can pretend that's not what it was, but it is.

[Matthew Rosier]

That's exactly what it is. And so, but then, then think about it. You get to the nonprofit, the people who wind up in charge there are, you know, they're like, ooh, look at my pile, right? They're not like, what are they going to like conservatively steward it? Because, oh, we have to make sure that by 2025 or 2050 we've banned X in Y states. No, they want to set as much of it on fire as possible and eat. Right? They want to eat it.

[Ivan (Rat Man)]

So that 200 grand for a social media manager, what do they do? I don't know, but it's not managed social media.

[Matthew Rosier]

They take the 200 grand home to their. I was just, I was about to start making political commentary that or like lifestyle commentary that people have told me not to do anymore. I won't. But whatever it was, it was going to be offensive to you, whatever your beliefs are. Anyway, this. And let me say something Else I want to own the term assault weapon. Like, I like it. The more I've thought about it, the more I've been. Because, you know, I'm a word guy, right? I'm a. I'm a law person. A lot of what I have to do is just deal with words. And I've, you know, handled a lot of different weapons weapon systems in my career. And I think assault weapon is a pretty useful, like, term. I mean, I would just use it.

[Ivan (Rat Man)]

It was a term. And people don't like it when you point this out because obviously the program side wasn't the side that politicized it, but the program side used assault as a prefix, as a modifier, as a descriptor to sort of contrast with what we understand today as sport or sporting or sporter. Now, very frequently this was used to do, like, the NFA versions of things where the non NFA version was the sporter. But not always, right? You would sometimes see shotguns that were completely NFA compliant be called assault shotguns because they had a tube that held more than four rounds. And it would. You probably, you know, some states wouldn't even let you use it for hunting. So it's not for sporting. What is it for? And they just use assault as sort of like a bucket or a catch. All to say this is a military militaristic, doesn't roll off the tongue the same way assault does, right?

[Matthew Rosier]

It's like there has been an understanding, this isn't a sudden, like, renaissance, right, of people practicing Marshall utility in their own private firearms, right?

[Ivan (Rat Man)]

This is.

[Matthew Rosier]

It's gotten more popular, thank God. But it's just a thing. And so guess what, guys, those of you who have, you know, an AR15 with, you know, an eotech and a light and a, you know, an IR aiming device, what are you doing with it? You know, what's your plan? What are the target shaped like you. It's like, like own it. You have this thing in case something bad happens, right? It's like, what do you have it for? It's not for sporting. Who, like. And, you know, get mad at me at. You want. If you're like, oh, I only, you know what you are. If you, if you're, if you are that type, that's. That just sits there and said. And, you know, crosses your arm and says, no, no, this is, that, you know, this is only for shooting paper. This is, you know, let's say. And let's say you do comps all the time, right? You're a European, you're like, because that's the European gun owners. I know tons of them, right. I'm friends with them. But they have this like guilt about even just owning guns where they like feel weird about it because we all know what they're for, we all know what they're really for. But they're like, I'm different, I'm a sports guy. Right. Like look, look at my scores. Look at my thing in that you want to be. That you want to be a European. God bless you. I want people to have mechanisms to protect themselves. And like in case something bad happens, you know, I have a fucking fire extinguisher in my house. It's not for sport. It's in case something bad happens.

[Ivan (Rat Man)]

Right.

[Matthew Rosier]

So deal with it. And guess what? If something bad happens, I want an assault rifle.

[Ivan (Rat Man)]

Yes.

[Matthew Rosier]

Most of the time.

[Ivan (Rat Man)]

You know why it's like a lot of the discussion around sport vs non sport I think is best because, because like the whole sporting language. We've talked about this before, you and I. I don't know if we talked about on the show, but like the. There was a codification of sporting language in 1968 with the various gun control acts that sort of like were homogenized into the 1968 Gun Control Act.

[Matthew Rosier]

Right.

[Ivan (Rat Man)]

As people refer to it today. But exporterized or sporter language was baked into the law there. And so it's like it created a statutory split where there was maybe an ideological one. But during the debate of the gun control acts they will consistently be talking about like in, you know, the NRA high power shooting or the, you know, the pre CMP affiliated matches that the government would put on to teach people to shoot military rifles.

[Matthew Rosier]

Yep.

[Ivan (Rat Man)]

And the universal consensus was that that is not sporting, that's military preparedness. Like even though most of what they were doing is shooting prone at silhouette targets. They were, everybody understood then, right. It was very clear to them it's fine and normal, it's okay to do, it's okay to have military weapons, be prepared to use them and everything's fine with that. But it's not sporting, it's not hunting. That's not what you're there doing. Right. You are preparing to be ready to use a firearm in some sort of armed combat specific to what the CMP was doing. It's armed combat in a military context. But that doesn't mean that also these lessons would still be applicable at some rate to armed self defense against, I don't know, some sort of a wacko. Right. And everybody was comfortable with this, that was the flavor in the room. And ultimately you could attribute what changed to a variety of societal factors. But I think the war in Vietnam played a outsized role in making people feel weird about that. Where all of a sudden, hey, maybe that's not, maybe that's not great. Yeah, because then who does the government end up drafting? Well, the government gets involved in the war, starts drafting people who are the ones that are going to be sent into the actual combat zones. People know how to shoot, right? So now all of a sudden like the faith that you placed in your government and the faith the government placed in you completely gets broken because, you know, they trusted you with military experience and firearms that they were selling you at a great discount so that you'd be ready to go and fight. And you trusted them not to get you in a war that was kind of not the best. And then both people sort of.

[Matthew Rosier]

So you're not going to eat that.

[Ivan (Rat Man)]

So both sides sort of screwed this up to some extent. They screwed up their trust with one another. And so from that point on, your CMP plays a massively waning role in firearms culture. It still exists. But what do they give you now? It's like actual antiques that are nearing 100 years old as the guns they give you now. Where back then it was meant to be like the second string, if not the first string guns the military was using. And so ultimately, somewhere along the way, I don't think it was just the war in Vietnam, but I think that was maybe a catalyst where people these days, now, as a result of that war and the anti war movement sort of steamrolling into the anti gun, the fervor, the reinvigorated anti gun movement really starts to target the idea of is it okay for you to be prepared to kill someone? Is that normal? Is that right? And I think most pro gun people these days are certainly once the assault weapons ban expired, I think that needle started tipping back the other direction. And the Supreme Court, especially in Hellard, codifying the right to have a handgun in the home for self defense really helped. But there is certainly still this flavor, this taste in people's mouth when they think about it, right? Because even the pro gun side, right, when they, when they try to call it a modern sporting rifle or whatever, oh my God, it's, it's, it's, it's mushmouth, right? You're, you're, you're beating around the bush. You're trying, you're trying to avoid saying the thing with your chest, which is If I have to defend myself, right, I want the gun that makes it so easy, so intuitive. Like, this is not supposed to be some chivalrous thing that we're doing here. It's not like we're jousting. We have to have equal equipment. I want to overmatch you as hard as possible. I want the assaultiest, deadliest rifle gun to blow you away with because you're not supposed to be in my house, you're not supposed to be carjacking me, etc.

[Matthew Rosier]

Yeah. And you know, it's funny because you were talking about like, you know, the whole CMP thing. And then the really interesting thing is there's a guy in, you know, in our discord, really great guy, Plank. He is a like CMP guy, like, you know, decorated shooter, like all the time, like does all those comps and he came out with us to the AK match that we go to twice a year. And it's funny because this guy's been a competitive shooter for decades. And he comes to the AK match where. And to me, that's what a shooting match is. Is like it's basically like an obstacle course and there's a bunch of targets and you have to run through it and shoot them all. You know, some of them are 10 yards away, some of them are 200 yards away. And I kept being like, hey bro, just run the. Like, just run it here, just run it. And he was like, I do not know what's going on. You know, like it's so wildly different. And you know, there's problems with every type of, you know, shooting competition in terms of like actually translating it to real world use. But I think that the modern shooting competitions that we're doing are way better, right?

[Ivan (Rat Man)]

And I've done a little bit of like digging on this and watching videos and documentaries about, you know, a lot of it was born out of modern pistol shooting. You know, IPSIC and usp. What a uspsa, uspsc, whatever, whichever the acronym is, it was. It was United States Pistol Shooting Competition that largely like started bringing this idea back. And you know, some of this had to do with there was like some holdout, some refuges in the country were carrying a handgun was normal in the 80s and 90s. Most of it not right. Like, like the weirdo states, they carry handguns because, you know, carjackings and these sorts of things were. Their primary concern is you're more rural parts of the country. And so yes, they carried handguns. And so the sort of combat pistol shooting was largely Born out of that. And that Overton window shifted in a massive way as people started to maybe accept the utility and having a handgun and knowing how to use it. And eventually the Supreme Court even went on to say, like, yeah, okay, we're comfortable with this. And so all this to say, right, we talk about Overton windows and they're shifting a lot. That's sort of where we remain on this. It's just that, oh, I, I, I will be upset and it won't even be in a way that I can say I told you so. Right. Because you know, we're, we, you and I were both born too late to have actually been there whenever this semantic game was being established where, oh no, it's not an assault weapon. This, this gun, which is literally a military gun with a select fire moved. It's for sport. And what sort of sport do we do with it? We run around and shoot multiple paper targets shaped like people as fast as we can. Because like, what, what's, what are you training for in this sport? Like, it's like, what if instead of baseball, instead of swinging the bat at the ball, you had cabbages put on top of shoulders and you hit the cabbages with the baseball bat as hard? Like, is it a sport? Is it fun? Sure. Is this a sport? I think you're training to kill people.

[Matthew Rosier]

Well, it's like, but hey, that can be a sport. Sure. You know, but like, anyway, this is all, it's just frustrating because you just see people continuing to engage with this and it's like, it's almost like, it's like the Harry Potter thing. It's like, stop being afraid of the name.

[Ivan (Rat Man)]

Right. It'll just be upsetting if eventually I think the Supreme Court will be saying something about this in the next two years. It'll just be really frustrating if they couch it in. Oh, you can have semi auto center fire rifles and big magazines for them. As long as it's for sports. Yeah, that'd be unfortunate if that, I mean, I wouldn't hate the outcome because it's better than nothing, but I would hate the outcome because like, oh my

[Matthew Rosier]

God, now we have to carry this thing around for us for the rest of forever.

[Ivan (Rat Man)]

The second amendment right to have a big fun sport. Like to shoot the cardboard men.

[Matthew Rosier]

Yeah, right. To have a time and, and, and bottom the scoreboard don't par out. Speaking of carrying around with you guys, it's traditional arms. Zero compromise holsters and gears. Traditional Arms llc. A fine flor. Look at them.

[Ivan (Rat Man)]

Wow.

[Matthew Rosier]

They're doing Their sporting right there on the website,

[Ivan (Rat Man)]

guys.

[Matthew Rosier]

TraditionalArms.com use promotional code FUD BUSTERS or RATMAN get you a discount. This is the holster that your hosts are actively carrying. So check it out. Traditionalarms.com so what's next here? Oh, yeah, so I think. I don't know if. Yeah, this happened like the day after we recorded the last one, which is great. The. The 5th Circuit signaled discomfort with what was going on with, you know, what we can call the machine gun ban. And so this was. Oh, also, I was. I can happily say that an article I wrote was recently quoted in the 5th Circuit that made me feel pretty good. It was about red flag laws. But, yeah, this was Wilson v. United States of America on appeal. United States of America v. Wilson, which was on petition for rehairing and bonk. And it got denied. Right. This is like they came out with this. God, the order has a lot of not quite dissentals. Right. Because they're not saying that they should have taken this case, but they're expressing various degrees of concern with 922.0, which is kind of exciting, but one part, because you guys have probably heard about this by now.

[Ivan (Rat Man)]

Yeah, I think. I think this may have even dropped like the day that we recorded last time. And so we just talked about it briefly, but we didn't really have time to. Right. Fully dig into it. And I think our suppositions about it, like, they're in there where the fifth Circuit indicated a willingness to hear a machine gun case at some point.

[Matthew Rosier]

Yeah, this is. It's funny because this is. Don Willett starts it out by saying that, you know, the court's precedent on machine guns leave little work for either constitutional safeguard to do. And he's saying in nuts. And we let the enumerated powers belt slip holding that Congress may ban the mere possession of a machine gun into the commerce power. And in lynch, we cast aside the Second Amendment suspenders too, holding that machine guns are not just dangerous, but also unusual and thus may be prohibited. Both holdings are dis. Are dubious. But there's a part I really liked. This is from Oldham, who's joined by Ho, who is really cool. Our court's approach to the Second Amendment is historically bankrupt. And he's right. And he cites some really good materials, basically saying there is nothing that you can historically point to to support any of this. And in fact. And interestingly. And thank God for Joe Greenlee, right, Because he sits down and does all this research and finds all these materials the moment repeating firearms were available. Americans were like, oh, yeah, give me that. Like, and there was no, there was no inclination to regulate them. The, like, earliest hardware bands you saw were in, you know, heavily religious controlled territories, specifically limited to concealable handguns and

[Ivan (Rat Man)]

pocket knives or, you know, specifically limited to those people.

[Matthew Rosier]

Yeah.

[Ivan (Rat Man)]

So, you know, so whenever we look at the how and the why, it's like, why they were doing it. They are afraid that bad things would happen. How are they doing it? They were deciding who's a bad person.

[Matthew Rosier]

Yeah. Whereas they can't have them. So. Yeah, that's, that's interesting. And we'll see. I will say that I've seen, you know, some, because I'm in with some of the groups, the ones that don't hate me because I told on them. And there's some brain trust stuff going on right now on how to take advantage of this. So that's kind of exciting. And we'll see what happens with that.

[Ivan (Rat Man)]

Right. So it's definitely, it is definitely interesting, right, that the, the fifth Circuit would see kind of on its own. It's not like this was argued specifically, maybe not explicitly in this case. The fifth Circuit sees the problem with the National Firearms act being predicated on, oh, the government has the power to tax certain things. Right. Certain things in your possession, it has the ability to tax. It sees that there's a problem when they're taxing you to possess it. But then the 922Amendment says, but actually you can't have any more after this date because what that is is it's a complete ban on something where there may be some degree of constitutional protection. And they understand that they probably erred whenever they said no machine guns could be arms or protect. Protected or anything. So they have to redo that analysis. And I think they see that because they got it wrong. But then they've also got to redo the analysis.

[Matthew Rosier]

Don't want to do it, they're saying, but don't do it with a criminal guy.

[Ivan (Rat Man)]

Please don't. Don't do it with the. Because this guy, he was engaged in some silly behavior.

[Matthew Rosier]

Yeah, he was. He was a businessman.

[Ivan (Rat Man)]

His business was silly.

[Matthew Rosier]

He's just a goofball.

[Ivan (Rat Man)]

I'm a silly merchant down the streets. No.

[Matthew Rosier]

Yeah. So anyway, let's shift gears here to atf New era of Reform. Yeah, they've listed out, they've come up with this website, which is actually pretty good, where they list all of the stuff that they're working on. And basically this takes you to each of the types of rulemakings that they're engaged in. So let's go through each group. We've got the repeal group, the modernized group, reduce burden group, clarify group, and align group. And I'll kind of, you know, walk you through what each of these are. But there's some pretty exciting stuff in here. So let's go first to the repeal group. So one where we're backing out of the pistol brace thing. This is a proposed rulemaking.

[Ivan (Rat Man)]

Interesting. I did dive a little deep on that one. We don't have to go too far into it. But they are seeking to return to the status quo as things were before.

[Matthew Rosier]

4.

[Ivan (Rat Man)]

But if you guys. Right. If you guys remember, before the Biden pistol brace rule, it's not like that was all sunshine and roses because the ATF was still trying to arrest people for having pistol braced. Ars.

[Matthew Rosier]

Yeah.

[Ivan (Rat Man)]

Because they're like, well, it's got a sling on it. So clearly that means that it's like you don't put a sling on a pistol. So that means it's a rifle. Or it's like there was. There was foam where you'd put your cheek with this pistol brace. So that means it's a rifle. Yeah. So that's. They've indicated that's where we're headed back to. So it's not perfect, but it's better than you have. The way that the Biden rule would have worked is everything is an sbr. So we've moved away from. Well, that's obviously not. Right. Back to the sort of lukewarm territory we were in before.

[Matthew Rosier]

Yeah. Then the next one is engaged in the business. That's kind of like a sideways move. Would you agree with that?

[Ivan (Rat Man)]

I guess. Because the Biden engaged in the business rule, you know, gave implementation to the bipartisan Safer Communities Act.

[Matthew Rosier]

Right.

[Ivan (Rat Man)]

Where they said that if you have a pecuniary interest, like if you have a. If you buy a gun and then there's a pecuniary exchange that benefits you whenever you get rid of the gun, you're a gun dealer.

[Matthew Rosier]

Yeah. And whereas previous. It was. It had to be your primary means of earning a living.

[Ivan (Rat Man)]

Right. Like, yeah, it was like predominantly. Right, Predominantly was replaced with, well, if you're making. If there's a pecuniary interest, like if you made money.

[Matthew Rosier]

Right.

[Ivan (Rat Man)]

So the bipartisan Saver Communities act is still there. That language is still in place, but it seems as though they're just completely defanging that to say what that means is predominantly back to where we were. So.

[Matthew Rosier]

Right. Yeah, yeah.

[Ivan (Rat Man)]

They were essentially trying to arrest people who just sold guns.

[Matthew Rosier]

One gun. It could be one gun.

[Ivan (Rat Man)]

Biden's ATF sought to essentially implement universal background checks by way of saying if you sell one gun and make money, because most people who sell guns aren't going to buy a gun, then sell it at a loss. Of course that happens more often than you, than you think realize. But you know, they're saying like if there's a pecuniary interest, you got to get a license and then you got, if you have a license, right, you have to run background checks. So they were trying to backdoor universal background checks at a federal level.

[Matthew Rosier]

And I mean that's a little bit attenuated. Right. But it, it was problematic either way in the, you know, it's the fact that, you know, trying to back door universal background checks is a non insane reading. Just shows you how problematic it was. Then double a 60 is a final rule of them revising the machine gun definition which is basically just saying, okay, Supreme Court, we lost, right. Pulling out of the bump stock thing. So they're just undoing that.

[Ivan (Rat Man)]

I will have to double check it. Of course it's a, it's a final rule now. So maybe, maybe it's like figured out at this point they had made it sound early on that all they were doing was removing the explicit reference to bump stocks in their regulation and that they were going to leave poll an analogous function so that they were going to leave the. We still think this is how it works. But the Supreme Court said we were wrong.

[Matthew Rosier]

Okay.

[Ivan (Rat Man)]

Which is interesting, you know, because the statute of course says the single function of the trigger. But what ATF had done to try and ban bumps reinterpret function of the trigger to mean pull and analogous action.

[Matthew Rosier]

Accordingly, ATF is removing from the three regulatory definitions of machine gun the two sentences that incorporated bump stocks into the those definitions.

[Ivan (Rat Man)]

Yeah.

[Matthew Rosier]

Good job, guys.

[Ivan (Rat Man)]

So is it, is it a, a victory? I guess. Except the Supreme Court already the Supreme Court, I said no, stop it.

[Matthew Rosier]

Right.

[Ivan (Rat Man)]

So they're just removing the references to bump stocks. And of course the reason they're doing this is probably because they understand that this ATF is not going to tie the hands of tomorrow's ATF to say you can't go after frts.

[Matthew Rosier]

Right. And then last one on the repeal section is removing the Youth Handgun Safety act notice which was a stupid. It's basically just like mandatory junk mail that gun dealers had to have. And this is a proposed rulemaking conclude

[Ivan (Rat Man)]

a pamphlet with every handgun that you sold saying that you can't give this, you can't. We can't sell this to somebody who's under 21.

[Matthew Rosier]

Yeah. It's like, great.

[Ivan (Rat Man)]

And the ATF is getting rid of that on account of the act has been in place for a long time and also it didn't change anything.

[Matthew Rosier]

So then on the modernized section we've got number one is they're really excited about the Form 4473. I took a look at the new 4473. It's a mess. I don't think I like it, but it might just be because I'm so used to the old ones. I just don't think it's materially easier. There are fewer questions, which is nice, but there's just still a lot of unnecessary crap.

[Ivan (Rat Man)]

So confusing. And then of course, now it's more

[Matthew Rosier]

confusing because they've just bungled the order all up. Right.

[Ivan (Rat Man)]

My read of it is that for the person buying the gun, it probably is just at least a little bit simpler. Right. There's less. There's less room for them to mess up. Let's say that there's less room for them to mess up. On the FFL side of the thing though now I think there's actually maybe a little bit more room to mess things up. Yeah.

[Matthew Rosier]

Because you're having to like go back and forth between pages, you know.

[Ivan (Rat Man)]

For today, Biden's zero tolerance policy is. Is done with for now, but. Right, that's for now. Look at, look at all these cool things that are happening. Right. You.

[Matthew Rosier]

The.

[Ivan (Rat Man)]

The thing to understand is, Mo, a lot of what they're doing here is just reversing things Biden had done. But this is a switch that they can just flip at will. Right. The next administration could just, you know, flip the zero tolerance switch back on and they could be right back where they started because Congress has delegated a pretty ridiculous amount of authority to the atf. So like we had, I think we talked about before, that the anti gunners response to this has been kind of jumbled because they can't come out and say ATF has no authority to do to make these rulings, because they do. And the anti Gunners would never ever like run to the phones or run to the courts and say the ATF can't do the thing Congress says the ATF has the power to do.

[Matthew Rosier]

Right.

[Ivan (Rat Man)]

Because the anti gunners realize that's probably more good for them than it is bad for them.

[Matthew Rosier]

Yep. So. And next up is the electronics record keeping. So basically previously to use electronic bound books. It was actually kind of like sort of a minefield. So they're softening that and, and just making a, you know, set of standards that's just flat. And so it'll be easier to make sure you're in compliance with record keeping. And of course, those of you who don't know if you're an ffl, you have to keep your guns on books that say where the guns came in from, where they went out. And certain information has to be kept in, you know, in a certain way. So making it easier to modify or to modernize that. The records retention period has been. We rolled back a little bit from forever, so that's good. A lot of people are mad that we didn't go to, you know, zero, but this is if, if we had tried to flip the switch, it would just get flipped right back the other way. This is something that can actually stick. So I think that's good. Of course, these are still NPRMs, so they could change the easy check verification.

[Ivan (Rat Man)]

Actually didn't check that one, so it's actually super interesting. So the way that that works is you can use like ATF has had a website forever and ever.

[Matthew Rosier]

So, so this is.

[Ivan (Rat Man)]

It was.

[Matthew Rosier]

So, yeah, they've had the website forever where you can check their stuff, but it wasn't considered good enough. You had to have a copy, right?

[Ivan (Rat Man)]

And then the problem with copies is various different ATF field offices would bicker about whether, like, what form this copy has to take and whether or not they can ship the copy with the gun or it has to be separate or whether or not it should be emailed or like whether or not it has to be faxed. And it's like they would just like make up, right? Because in absence of ATF saying what is actually required as far as verifying where the gun came from, by way of seeing their ffl, field offices just started making it up. And so you had like this patchwork like Bud's Gun Shop is famous for. Like, they include something if you buy a gun, if your ffl, whenever they get a gun from Bud's Gun Shop, it includes something saying, we can't send you our FFL because our field office said no sending ffl. Reach out to this email address to get a copy of our ffl. And it's like, what?

[Matthew Rosier]

Why?

[Ivan (Rat Man)]

Like, people were. People were like faking Bud's Gun Shops FFL to traffic guns or something.

[Matthew Rosier]

I don't know. But it's, it's. But anyway, so now it's like it's clear, it's straightforward, you can just go on easy check and you're good.

[Ivan (Rat Man)]

So you can, you can, you can get all of the FFL's license information and number and if it's valid and all these things from ATF's website where it's always been available. They just said that you can't rely on that before.

[Matthew Rosier]

Yeah. Which is okay. Then the revising non over the counter transactions. That's interesting. So that's an nprm and this is what we were talking, I think we did mention on, we touched on this is that this is going to be, it's not going to be interstate. Right. So you're not going to be able to just buy guns from direct wherever and get them shipped, you know, straight to your house. But your in state hub there, they're going to allow a system for them to verify your identity and get the gun to you. Which is again this isn't new. This is actually bringing back something that was the case back in 68, but that the, the Brady act nuked. So this is, that's pretty good.

[Ivan (Rat Man)]

Yeah. And my, my read of it, of course it's still preliminary and then I've read so many of these they sort of blend together. But I thought the way that they were going to let that work is, you know, currently 4473s allow for you to skip the background check part of the 4473. If you have some state or federal issued document that requires you to get a background check that, that strict or stricter in the first place. Such as most states that do a carry license. Right. They background check you when you get that. And 4473s have a mechanism where if you just, if you have your, you know, carry license that proves that you already have gone through this background check and you don't have to continue to go through it and they can just give the gun to you without a background check. So it seems to me that the way that they're going to like hook this up on the back end is you prove that you've passed a background check already by having this card, you provide that proof to your gun store that's in your state and your background checks done. So now they just have to fill out the rest of the paperwork which can, could always be done electronically and then provide that you exchange that information and then they should be able to ship you the gun. So we'll have to see exactly how that ends up going or if they need more information than that. But if it could be that simple, hey, that's not so bad.

[Matthew Rosier]

All right, and then here we've got the reduced burden section. So AA89 is interstate transport and temporary export of NFA items. This is an nprm, so not in yet. But this one's exciting because basically for. If you're moving for under a year with an NFA item or, you know, going around with it, whatever, you don't need to. You don't need to deal with it anymore. You don't need to do the paperwork. Well, you won't need to under the nprm. And if you are going to be moving, you don't have to wait in order to do it. You can submit your paperwork. Right. And then just go. So that's pretty cool. Next is another cool one. They're gonna have joint registration for spouses. So you don't have to, like, this is one of the only real reasons people really needed to get NFA trusts. It's like, well, what if my wife has to use your gun? Well, now there's going to be a joint registration option. So that's pretty cool. Removing the chief local law enforcement notification. This is. I'm kind of surprised they're doing this because this prevents your local policeman from creating his own, you know, registry of who's got. Who's got the goods in their town. So that's cool. The AA73 is actually way more important than you might think it. This is intended to give Fopa more teeth. So it's to clarify that when you're moving, you know, because as you guys know, when you're moving with a firearm, you know, from one state to another state, that it's lawful to have in that journey is supposed to be covered. But there were a lot of New York states that took the position that, like, if you stop to. If you stop to, like, get a snack or an overnight stay where, well, your journey is interrupted and now we can get you. So that this tries to clarify that there might be some legal problems in them doing this. As the atf, I'm not sure how much. I'm not sure how much power they have to prevent the states from.

[Ivan (Rat Man)]

Was. Fopa was pretty broad in that it was like the. The attorney general shop put forward, you know, what it means to travel between states. And I think they. They're even allowed to prescribe how the gun should be stored while that happens.

[Matthew Rosier]

Yeah.

[Ivan (Rat Man)]

Because I'm pretty sure that Fopa. This is me, like, trying to come up with this on the spot.

[Matthew Rosier]

Yeah.

[Ivan (Rat Man)]

I'm pretty sure Fopa, the law of Fopa itself, did not come up with the whole, you know, unlocking a case out of it. Yeah, I think that came from regulation. So if they've got that much latitude, they ought to. To be able to have the latitude to say, obviously, stopping at McDougall's. Right. You should be allowed to fill up your car with gasoline and get a. And get a McBurger. Yeah.

[Matthew Rosier]

I mean, I'm just saying it's. It's just a little bit more complicated because, you know, you're directly dealing with states.

[Ivan (Rat Man)]

It's. We just need federal preemption, too. It's just.

[Matthew Rosier]

It's just. Yeah, it's just. But anyway. Yeah. Then the next one is the Larry Vickers thing. You know, they're. They're streamlining and reducing burden on types of firearm transfers. None of you have to deal with for, like law enforcement demos and like that. And in reality, it just.

[Ivan (Rat Man)]

It's just they're trying to make it very clear that you. You can't quote, unquote.

[Matthew Rosier]

Yeah.

[Ivan (Rat Man)]

You can't get a law letter from your buddy who's a cop who just wants you to have the gun or you too, to have the gun. And it's not actually a legitimate demo. And it also clarifies that, you know, when your SOT inventory and you're going out of business, what you're allowed to do with it. Because the ATF was certainly wise to the fact that, you know, one guy would get a new FFL and a new SOT every year, make, you know, 20 machine guns, close up shop, sell those as, you know, post sample, no law letter needed guns to other sfts, and then just get another FFL the next year. And it's like, this makes the ATF feel weird because you're not supposed to be doing that. Right. So I think my read of this is just this. This is them at least saying that, hey, our foot is in this door. If you're going to like known as like, posty dumping or post sample dumping. If it seems to me that they're intimating that, they probably don't want that to keep happening.

[Matthew Rosier]

Right. And then 8876 is about SOT payments per business activity. Like, there was some. There was some uncertainty as to, like, whether you needed to have like 12sots when you, you know, when you had different locations and things like that.

[Ivan (Rat Man)]

Like, there's another one of these patchwork of field division things where ATF would not apply this equally, but. Right. They have now clarified. Unfortunately it's not clarified. The best way is that like one ffl, one SOT covers all FFL activities. But they're saying that's not the case. If you're going to be an importer and a manufacturer and a dealer of NFA items, you need three separate SOT payments. So if you want to import an NFA item, got to pay an SOT for that. If you want to manufacture SOT item, you got to pay your NFA item, you got to pay an SOT for that. If you want to deal them, you're paying an SOT for that. So it's like oof. Right. That's kind of like the cooler way to do that would be like if you paid it once, you're covered. But I guess because of the way it's a tax thing and so make sure that the tax thing is properly followed that they want you to pay in triplicate.

[Matthew Rosier]

Yeah, that's really interesting. Especially because most manufacturer, like most manufacturers don't. It's like you have a manufacturing license and you don't need a dealer license to deal as a manufacturing, but you're going to have to get a dealer's sot.

[Ivan (Rat Man)]

Right. So that's, it's like they're clarifying this, but that just seems to me like they're making it a little bit more confusing.

[Matthew Rosier]

Yeah, yeah. Well it's under burden. I don't think that reduces burden.

[Ivan (Rat Man)]

I know it absolutely doesn't reduce burden. Right. The easy way to reduce burden there is like it doesn't really matter.

[Matthew Rosier]

Right. But hey, reducing burden is removing triplicate file requirements for importing plastic explosives. That affects all of us.

[Ivan (Rat Man)]

God, I hated having to fill that out three times.

[Matthew Rosier]

Yeah, Also, yeah, there's that, that's great for you clarify. And Ivan, if we, if we yap about each of these, I think we're gonna be here all night.

[Ivan (Rat Man)]

We're gonna get some eyes to glaze over here.

[Matthew Rosier]

So the first one here is actually pretty cool. Firearms activities and foreign trade zones and customs bounded warehouses. It was a total black box in order. And this is all to do with importers, which is something I'm really interested in because we don't make good guns in this country. But it was a total black box nightmare. If you know, reconfiguring guns to get them in portable whether you needed like, like how much can you do? Right. This kind of like clarifies that a little bit. And again this was the patchwork of field offices thing and will give some, you know, finality to the people who are in the international trade sector, then hopefully they'll be more willing to work with firearms businesses to. And what this is most important for is configuring firearms, right? Like you get some stuff that can't quite be imported the way it is. You bring it here, you tweak, you do this and that and now you can bring it in, right. It's kind of like, like everybody knows about how Taurus has these like weirdo parts that the guns come in with and then they dildog with them once they're here and send it back. Oh this, this would actually be the opposite situation. This would be you get them in so you can put the stuff on to make them stupid and importable to then take off again afterward. But yeah, that's one thing. The next one is the one we were talking about last time, the dual use frames or receivers. That's going to be very big following after that training rounds. This is a, you know, was a only a problem for a short period. Hopefully that's going to be not an issue. The one after that, converting temporary to permanent imports, that was a like weird gray area that you could find yourself in if you had like done something for a trade show and it needed to stay there. Was really hard to, to deal with that. The next one after that makes it makes it like you don't have to like put a billion markings all over an SBR whenever you make one.

[Ivan (Rat Man)]

It's a pretty big one. Like the Biden pistol brace rule actually introduced this and it seems like it worked pretty well. Where if you got like your PSA lower or whatever already has psa, like a marking from PSA and a serial number and stuff, they're not going to make you put a new unique serial number on that gun because actually that kind of makes their job a lot harder.

[Matthew Rosier]

Well, previously you could adopt the serial number, but you had to put all of the other new stuff. It wasn't. So you didn't ever have to put a new serial number on it, but you had to put your information on it. And so I think now it's, it's that you can adopt. And basically the whole point is there was no point for you to have to like remark everything because the whole point of the, the NFA registry is to be able to identify the firearm. And so if the firearm was sufficiently marked to be completely identifiable, why should you have to mess with it? You should be, you know, it's easy to tell who it's registered to at this Point.

[Ivan (Rat Man)]

So

[Matthew Rosier]

did you look into what they did for the mental defective?

[Ivan (Rat Man)]

I don't. I don't think so. I don't remember.

[Matthew Rosier]

Yeah. These other ones that were not that interesting to me. Definition of business premise. Oh, yeah. No, this is good. Like, yeah. When you have like three buildings on your property. So. Yeah.

[Ivan (Rat Man)]

Even if they have different street addresses. Right. So previously ATF. ATF's again. This was again a patchwork of how field offices looked at it. But usually the answer you'd get is if you had two different addresses and you're going to be doing manufacturing activities in both, you needed two different FFLs. So if a gun needs to. If you're parkerizing or anodizing is in one building, but final assembly is in another, you'd have to log your guns out whenever they cross the street.

[Matthew Rosier]

Right.

[Ivan (Rat Man)]

It's like that's just an overhead nightmare. So they've clarified that that doesn't need to happen. As long as these are on the same sidewalk or on the same street, you're okay.

[Matthew Rosier]

Yep. Double A 64 is about penis inspection day. No, you have to do your biological sex. Because we care about this so much.

[Ivan (Rat Man)]

Because this matters a lot. This matters a lot to running a background.

[Matthew Rosier]

Yeah, it's idiotic. It's completely idiotic. Clarifying exceptions to the background check requirement. I know that this was.

[Ivan (Rat Man)]

They're doing that because multiple gun rights groups in states have sued them for not accepting their carry licenses or the carry permits. So ATF is saying, like, here's what the carry permit needs to be for it to make it biden. Right. That relates to the one we talked about earlier. Eventually, it seems like ATF is fighting for you to be able to get guns shipped to your home from a dealer in your state. Once that's all in place. Right.

[Matthew Rosier]

What did they change about straw purchases? Proposed rule is intended to provide clearer guidance for licensees, including which transactions are not considered straw purchases, thereby supporting enforcement efforts against true straw purchases. So this is. And they're. And they're pointing out here an actual straw purchase hides the identify of the actual purchaser ultimate recipient.

[Ivan (Rat Man)]

Right.

[Matthew Rosier]

So

[Ivan (Rat Man)]

I don't know.

[Matthew Rosier]

I have to. I have to read that rule a little closer because that's something that's be really interesting.

[Ivan (Rat Man)]

I'm sure a lot of it had to do with people falsely reporting people to the atf. Whenever it's like, oh, I'm buying this for my brother.

[Matthew Rosier]

The gift. Right. Yeah.

[Ivan (Rat Man)]

Right. As a gift. Like, oh my.

[Matthew Rosier]

Well, we need to read it though, because this would Be. This is an easy thing that you can like, try to help and then hurt. So need to check that a little closer. And then willfully.

[Ivan (Rat Man)]

This is important.

[Matthew Rosier]

I hope this sticks because in order to like, have serious consequences, and I mean like basically being prohibited from working in the industry again, you have to willfully violate the regulations. And so. And again, it was previously, and I've defended a lot of people in revocation hearings, especially during the Biden era. And ATF would try to get you to like, agree that what you did was willful when you like, made a mistake in the. And they'd be like, would you understand it's willful?

[Ivan (Rat Man)]

Because you should like, you understood you shouldn't have done this. Right. And then you'd say yes. And they'd run to a court saying he knew he shouldn't have done it and he did it anyway.

[Matthew Rosier]

Right. Yeah. So that's, that's wild. And last up a line, this one's kind of exciting.

[Ivan (Rat Man)]

Oh, yeah. This is the one that says that you don't have to re. Background check.

[Matthew Rosier]

So the, the first one is, you know, solves a little problem where you don't have to double background check people when they buy a suppressor from you or an NFA item because, like the ATF did that as part of approving the transfer.

[Ivan (Rat Man)]

All right. So they're essentially saying like, you know, the ETF's stamp on the form, I guess form one versus form four shouldn't really make a difference, but the ATF's approval of that is a background check. And so really that's, that's like part of the reason that the whole like, suppressor is straight to your door thing for like the, for the, for the people that were confused by how that works. It's basically this way where they're like the direct to door things is okay to do if there's a background check that has completed background check compliant.

[Matthew Rosier]

Yeah.

[Ivan (Rat Man)]

So that's sort of how that works.

[Matthew Rosier]

Yeah. And so they were like, hey, this has always been compliant. And that's kind of where that came from. So then the, this one's interesting. Double a 66. It's because there was a lot of changes to how international arms control law worked in the United States. And so they've conformed their references to the correct sections. Whereas, like, it was kind of a

[Ivan (Rat Man)]

mess and patchwork of ATF coming up with like, similar to like the, the countries, like the export countries. I think that might be.

[Matthew Rosier]

Well, the next one. That one. Next one's important. But yeah, this one was like, it was just impossible to like reading the regs was very hard. And you know, it caused a lot of phone calls to me when it was still, you know, before this was in place because you'd be like, the regs would point you to somewhere else that had been like superseded and then you're like, well, where do I go? Right. So it's all been cleaned up, updates of prescribed countries. That one's important mostly because it, it. Well what, it's going to be a double edged sword, right, because instead of having ATF's own list, which has been a huge problem because there's been stuff where it's like all the other sanctions are good to go, but ATF is still like has this little list that they've, they've kept. They're going to get rid of their own list and instead point to probably commerce control, you know, sanctioned countries. But what that would really do is get us access to a lot of Eastern bloc stuff that would be very, very, very cool.

[Ivan (Rat Man)]

All right, so X Soviet countries, including the Soviet Union itself would be okay as long as those things aren't actively domiciled in the Russian country. So the Russian Federation, Iran, North Korea, you know, the usual.

[Matthew Rosier]

But there's a lot of countries that were in the USSR that we just couldn't get the stuff from because they

[Ivan (Rat Man)]

were former USSR because either they were former USSR or the stuff we wanted to get was made in the Soviet Union. There's, there's been back and forth with the ATF that people have had about mosins where you know, a lot of the mosins were Soviet and like the ATF's like, well you can't have these relics, these antiques because they were made by somebody that a long time ago we beaten economic, political, theoretical war.

[Matthew Rosier]

Right.

[Ivan (Rat Man)]

It's like, okay, there's no other real sanctions or there are some, but there's not really many other sanctions against the Soviet Union to be found because it's not a thing.

[Matthew Rosier]

Yeah, this, this next one is kind of important. They're gonna add some sub definitions under the ACEA AECA because the way it's set is kind of a mess right now. The way things are defined where basically just the definition of a weapon and then everything underneath of it is like just treated the same as it. And so it's going to reduce some ambiguity for people who are engaged in the important export of gun parts, basically. Implementing Patriot act improvements. God, contraband cigarettes. I'm not reading that. Change to the NFA tax remittance provisions. That was the zero dollar.

[Ivan (Rat Man)]

Yeah. They're updating the regulations to say zero instead of 200, which is like, okay, golf clap.

[Matthew Rosier]

Cool. Yeah. God bless them. Speaking of God bless them, MAF Corp guys. Wow. Go to maf-arms.com and everything is there. There's BM59 kits now with all of the BM59 accessories that you can buy. So you should just go there and do it. It's maf-arms.com use promotional code fud busters.

[Ivan (Rat Man)]

They also have blank pistols that have an inappropriate name.

[Matthew Rosier]

The name is very appropriate. This is. This is great. The California assembly, this passes a 3D printer bill that would criminalize bypassing the gun block software. So you see, we got it. This is what I was talking about. We need to stack our bands, right? So first you can't access the files.

[Ivan (Rat Man)]

First you can't have a gun.

[Matthew Rosier]

You can't print the gun.

[Ivan (Rat Man)]

You can't own a gun.

[Matthew Rosier]

No gun.

[Ivan (Rat Man)]

Definitely can't make. Can't. Definitely can't own a gun because you made it straight to jail.

[Matthew Rosier]

Okay, so then. Because that's not good enough, then. Well, you can't get the instructions for the gun.

[Ivan (Rat Man)]

You can't know how to make a gun. That's how to do the gun.

[Matthew Rosier]

No, Straight to jail. When you do know how to make a gun, you have to make sure that your printer has software that gun detects it. Okay.

[Ivan (Rat Man)]

And then that it can't. Or else they can't have the gun. The gun printer.

[Matthew Rosier]

And then. So that. And so then because of that, it's illegal to turn off the gun detector.

[Ivan (Rat Man)]

Yeah, you have to keep the gun detector on at all times.

[Matthew Rosier]

I think it's common sense.

[Ivan (Rat Man)]

I think that we are this close. Once this is finally implemented, I think we will have solved California's homeless problem. So number one priority, they said, Newsom said. So that's what they got to fix. And this, this will fix it. Once the homeless people won't be able to remove like flash their own firmware to their gun manufacturing machines. Their crises, their various crises are solved and the wildfires will stop and everything.

[Matthew Rosier]

So the proposal would require every 3D printer sold in the state to ship with firearm blocking technology that screens a design file before a print job can begin. And goes further, the New York, Washington and Colorado's by making it a misdemeanor for owners to disable or circumvent that system. Have we seen any of this software yet?

[Ivan (Rat Man)]

In a very early version of the bill, they had like a God, this is just too funny to say. They had a draft version of what the code might look like as a part of this statute. And it was like pseudo code that would be like, check, print file, dot, dot, function, check if it's a gun. If it's a gun, you can print it and send them a message that says this has been blocked by California law.

[Matthew Rosier]

Like, oh my God, it's like checking for the like non existent function call in the.

[Ivan (Rat Man)]

It was just like entirely pseudocode where it's like, here's where we'll put our code to determine if it's a gun. Surely that won't be hard.

[Matthew Rosier]

Yeah, here's where we'll put our gun detecting code. Gun detecting code.

[Ivan (Rat Man)]

Yeah. And so it's, that raises obvious problems. And it's interesting to see that EFF is even engaged in this because EFF has traditionally been kind of quiet about the whole 3D printed, you know, 3D printers to make guns question. They usually sort of like the ACLU, they're like, oh, we're very interested 3D printers. And they're saying that you can't share code. What the heck. Yeah, good luck with that one, guys. So it's interesting to see that however, EFF is sticking their neck out specifically as it comes to California's like, demand that printers in the state have certain firmware. Because of course, even with modern AI tools, the ability to detect what is and is not an actual firearm versus a blank or a print prop or a tape dispenser or a PEZ dispenser or anything else is difficult. It's a very difficult computer machine learning question, like pattern identification. Easy for people, hard for machines, always has been as part of what AI has struggled with for so long. Unless your printer is going to be hooked up to a data center that's boiling fish alive 24 7, I do not think that this is going to be feasible at scale. As a result, EFF sees the obvious problem where, okay, but California is now going to criminalize trying to have your printer do anything besides boil fish alive.

[Matthew Rosier]

And so then they're also interesting, like they're, they're noting the anti consumer thing here, right? Where it's like, if this is going to work, it's because you're locking consumers into the manufacturer systems, right? And so they can have planned obsolescence. They can just like stop supporting your printers like, oh no, you can only use our software.

[Ivan (Rat Man)]

It's also not entirely dissimilar. I think California has toned down the language enough where, where it's like they, they're instead of like saying this is how the code has to work, they're saying this is, this is how a manufacturer knows that they've done well enough. And I think for a while they were tossing around like how, how often can it be wrong? Like what percentage of the time does it have to correctly flag it? Which of course is, you know, they're just enforcing statutorily false positives so companies can keep their products legal. That at some rate, what they're doing is implementing a, it's like implementing a ban of the product because not dissimilar to micro stamping. They're saying you must implement something that's technologically infeasible at scale or else you can't sell it here. Which again. Right. Gets us back to. We talk about this on the show all the time. There is like a screaming commerce cause problem with doing this where a state, a state has like said, well, unless this machine, any machine spits out fried bologna with mustard on it. A nice toasted white bread.

[Matthew Rosier]

Yeah.

[Ivan (Rat Man)]

Also the bread's buttered with garlic. Oh God, that'd be so good. Unless the machine does that every time I ask it to, you can't sell it here. It creates an obvious problem because they could, they could ban anything, anything they wanted. Like, unless, Unless a gun spits out fried bologna. Well, you can't sell the gun in our state, which is what they did with microstamping.

[Matthew Rosier]

Right.

[Ivan (Rat Man)]

It's right baloney machine of guns. But like, there's a problem here. And I guess ultimately the, the, the, there's a problem for the world, the country maybe at large here. However, as far as California is concerned, they don't give a shit.

[Matthew Rosier]

Yeah, no. And also the way they want to implement this is like the exact way they failed to do handguns is that they're going to have a list of approved 3D printers that you can fall off of. Like, oh, sorry, my ender got off roster. I've got a.

[Ivan (Rat Man)]

This is an off roster ender selling on Facebook marketplace. Get your door knocked down.

[Matthew Rosier]

Yeah, it's a misdemeanor to sell an off roster ender. Like stupid. Like, it's like ridiculous. Like, how can they take themselves seriously?

[Ivan (Rat Man)]

At some rate, you have to stop and wonder. Like, it's the incompetence versus malice question. what point do the states. Very real, very feasible issues, child literacy or homelessness or drug addiction or whatever. At what point do this state's issues, which by the way are getting worse year over Year, they get worse every year. And the population of the state declines because people are fleeing it so frequently. That's a freak. It's a freak that shouldn't be happening except like there must be a pandemic or a war for a state to actually lose population. California is like, forget about COVID We're just losing population anyway because people are just fleeing this God awful hellscape. All of these issues are very pressing. They're very large, they're aware of them, They've got metrics on them. And their plan to fix it is

[Matthew Rosier]

do it harder that you can't.

[Ivan (Rat Man)]

You can. No, no firmware on your 3D printer, dude. It's. And again, right? Gets us back to is this incompetence or is it malice? Are they intentionally trying to their state up as bad as they can, or are they so stupid that they can't sit there in their little committees and go, what if, what if, what if we arrested the people who are doing drugs and did something besides releasing them and giving them more drugs?

[Matthew Rosier]

You know what it is, is that like people in California, like the California power structure has been there so long and so fundamentally unchanged that basically the people who are in charge of California politics are cops.

[Ivan (Rat Man)]

Right.

[Matthew Rosier]

Like they, and I say that in this, in this fashion. They only know one way. The ratchet goes one way.

[Ivan (Rat Man)]

Yeah.

[Matthew Rosier]

And they only know how to turn it faster. So.

[Ivan (Rat Man)]

And like they wouldn't believe you if you told them it doesn't have to be like this. They wouldn't believe you. No, they don't think. They don't think that's true. They've never tried anything else. But they keep trying the one thing really hard and nothing ever changes. So they wouldn't believe you that there's another option.

[Matthew Rosier]

Yeah. God bless them. Anyway, speaking of other states. Oh, look who it is.

[Ivan (Rat Man)]

Ilsa Noise.

[Matthew Rosier]

Listen, we gotta address the growing threat of DIY machine GS. And so to do this, we're just gonna ban the most popular handgun in history.

[Ivan (Rat Man)]

This, this should, this should fix it to be fine. And, and this is a thing. I think, I think I probably elaborated enough on it earlier on in the show, which I guess I'm glad because. Right. It's now, it's earlier in the show, but this to me from, from the time California did it to. Jesus. Massive. Massive. Maryland, one of them.

[Matthew Rosier]

Maryland was, yeah, Maryland was, was very recently.

[Ivan (Rat Man)]

And I think Connecticut is trying to do the same thing too. But you now have the smattering of the anti. The states that have anti gun policy Capture going on, let's say are all now turning to this and you have to sit there and okay, right, it's marketable. Right, it's marketable because there are a lot of machine guns being recovered. But how many of these machine guns are being used on the sort of awful violent crimes that made assault weapons easy to go after?

[Matthew Rosier]

This is. No, they're, they're using. Actually they're mostly using the Maryland language here.

[Ivan (Rat Man)]

Yeah.

[Matthew Rosier]

So yeah. And of course they use the term switch. Like God, didn't we have to codify that like and like. And so they've actually gone a little further than Maryland and they're talking about like exactly what it takes.

[Ivan (Rat Man)]

Yeah, I think that was imported from California's language because they talked about like what common tools are. And it's like, I think California even included a drill and it's like oh buddy.

[Matthew Rosier]

Well, so common household tool means a screw driver 8 to 10 inches in length, flathead or Phillips flathead size up to 5, 8 inches.

[Ivan (Rat Man)]

What the California's law I think even talked about. Yeah, this one does too. It's like 1/3 horsepower corded, 9.6 volt cordless. Like what the are you talking.

[Matthew Rosier]

Dude, that's some clanked right there.

[Ivan (Rat Man)]

It's like oh. So if I got an 18 volt cordless, I'm hammer 16 ounces as long as it's a pound, a pound and an eighth hammer, I'm good quarter inch

[Matthew Rosier]

to 1 inch blade with wood chisels and crescent wrench. 10 inch. What the hell are you doing with that on a gun?

[Ivan (Rat Man)]

Installing switches.

[Matthew Rosier]

Me getting switched on? Yeah. Switch means any device or instrument that when installed in or attached to the slide of a semi automatic pistol interferes with the trigger mechanism and thereby enables the pistol to discharge a number of shots rapidly or automatically with one continuous pull of the trigger. These laws are such messes. And then convertible pistols, of course this focuses on the cruciform trigger bar which is. And then this is, this is like Maryland where they specifically excluded the hammer fired mechanisms because Maryland's first draft was going to include hammer fires guns, which was interesting. But this is just amazing. Like this is like geez, the balls on these people, right.

[Ivan (Rat Man)]

It's pretty close to anti gun performance art. I think that's the way I'd sort of sum it up. Where do they think this will solve any problems? Hell no. They can't do nice and big. If, if they can, they need to be committed to a mental institution because this isn't going to help anything. It's not going to, not going to solve any problems, it's not going to save lives, it's not going to prevent mass, mass Las Vegas. Right. It's not going to do any of these things. What it will do is I guess you force gun companies to spend more money developing guns to try and suit the whims of these, these teapot tyrants, if you will. It's just, it's a frustrating thing to have to see especially because there, there should be a solution and should be an answer in place for this already.

[Matthew Rosier]

Right.

[Ivan (Rat Man)]

And you know, I think, I think again it all boils down to, I think the anti gunners realize they're going to lose an assault weapons. They realize that they have pretty fertile ground when it comes to machine guns because a lot of circus have looked at machine guns and all of them have come back and said machine guns can be banned for this.

[Matthew Rosier]

Not a gun, it's not a gun

[Ivan (Rat Man)]

or it's, it's not protected if it is or it's not, it's dangerously unusual or whatever. And so I think the anti gunners have realized like we can fundraise off of, we can win elections by saying look, we're going to solve the scourge of these switches which for the record have not been used in hardly any notable Las Vegases. And so it's maybe difficult.

[Matthew Rosier]

I will say they do get used like all the time.

[Ivan (Rat Man)]

They certainly do get used to. And they certainly do get used in offense. But I think, I think we were discussing this maybe in me and somebody else in the, in the old discord.

[Matthew Rosier]

I mean they get used in the,

[Ivan (Rat Man)]

they get used in a consent to combat sort of way I would say.

[Matthew Rosier]

I mean, how do we say it?

[Ivan (Rat Man)]

You know, they, I sort of analogized it to street racing where like the two people who are racing next to each other are putting each other's lives in danger and the lives of people around them are being put in danger. And this is reckless and it is stupid. But I don't necessarily think like you kind of have to stretch it just a little bit to say what they're doing is violent.

[Matthew Rosier]

Right.

[Ivan (Rat Man)]

Because they're just being ignorant. Like do they really think that they're going to shoot each other holding a gun sideways, arm outstretched above their head with a switch on it?

[Matthew Rosier]

No, I think the sideways thing has gone down. I haven't seen that as much in

[Ivan (Rat Man)]

the

[Matthew Rosier]

cases have been involved in looking at those.

[Ivan (Rat Man)]

Uh, but, but it's like I, I think that this is more consent to combat the same way that like racing cars too fast on the streets is of course you know, the danger to bystanders aside, it's obviously tragic, but it's, it's weird to see the anti gunners like pick this as. And it's probably just because machine guns are favorable for them in terms of case law, but it's weird for them to be like this is where our hat gets hung now is full auto.

[Matthew Rosier]

But I mean think about it. No, it's, it's that you know where the Overton window is, is everyone's like, you can ban machine guns, you can do that, it's fine, you can just do it. And now they have a way

[Ivan (Rat Man)]

to

[Matthew Rosier]

call every Glock a machine gun.

[Ivan (Rat Man)]

Right. And, and if that stop here, cheat code. Right. And, and because geez, we talked about this before like long, long, long time ago where there was like a part of the anti gun movement in the 80s and 90s was pressuring the ATF to declare all AR15s machine guns because drop ins. In fact this may have been pre86 the the like with the advent of the first drop in auto sears that were being sold at gun shows, the ATF did not initially consider those to be machine guns on their own. And anti gunners wanted the ATF to say all AR15s are machine guns because they can be restored. Because one way or the other, the design dates back to being full auto. And now look, you can put this tchotchke in your gun and it's full auto again. So if you think that anti gunners will stop with Glocks, they won't. They will try and they will try and pursue this readily convertible gun thing to all ends of the earth. Because at the end of the day it's not, it's not that hard. It's not that hard to do for most.

[Matthew Rosier]

The guns like really want to do it.

[Ivan (Rat Man)]

They really want to do it. And of course like how is it possible? How is it possible? How is it possible this may be a chicken egg situation. This is a good discussion.

[Matthew Rosier]

I like egg chickens.

[Ivan (Rat Man)]

How is it possible that which is the egg or the chicken here, the Air 15 and the Glock, most popular firearms in America. Everything. Glock are the most easy to make full fun.

[Matthew Rosier]

Yeah, we've talked about this.

[Ivan (Rat Man)]

It's like how did that happen?

[Matthew Rosier]

So, and I've, I've for the AR15. It's obvious it's like the AR15. It's because it's popular, right?

[Ivan (Rat Man)]

Like a dollar and 60 cents.

[Matthew Rosier]

Yeah. Oh, that people don't know about that yet. But, but like as the state it is right now, it's because it's popular.

[Ivan (Rat Man)]

Yeah.

[Matthew Rosier]

With the Glock. I'm sitting there, I think about it

[Ivan (Rat Man)]

and I was like no, I do not believe, I do not believe that the Glock was designed with being a machine gun.

[Matthew Rosier]

0%.

[Ivan (Rat Man)]

0% not think that was the case. No.

[Matthew Rosier]

It's like the way the Seer works. It is a lazy and cheap way to make a semiautomatic. That's what it is. And so, but I was looking at it and I was thinking, right. I was thinking to myself is it like would it be this easy to do other guns? And then I take them apart and look at them for like three seconds and I go oh yeah, a lot of them.

[Ivan (Rat Man)]

It would be like you saw there's

[Matthew Rosier]

a couple where it's not. Right.

[Ivan (Rat Man)]

Like the 1911 is a lot easier to make an FRT than it is to make a machine gun.

[Matthew Rosier]

Right

[Ivan (Rat Man)]

thing like the Beretta 93 really doesn't wanna.

[Matthew Rosier]

Yeah.

[Ivan (Rat Man)]

In fact like you may say well oh, these are just hammer fired guns.

[Matthew Rosier]

The P99 has no interest.

[Ivan (Rat Man)]

Right. This is a YouTube show. So I'll be careful about how I say this but you know how the 1911 very difficult to. The Browning high power is desperate.

[Matthew Rosier]

Yeah. You can put it together wrong and it starts freaking out.

[Ivan (Rat Man)]

Like the way that select fire or the select fire Browning high powers were made was just making it so that one piece in the gun and I won't say which, but one piece in the gun is just constrained from moving. Right. Like all of the pieces were already in the gun. It was just asking for it.

[Matthew Rosier]

Yeah. I will say like I, I have looked at the P99 and you know, by extension all of the other modern Walthers and I, I don't, I think you'd have to have like a pretty up little mechanic.

[Ivan (Rat Man)]

It would be like the 1911 where it's like you're, you're bolting extra garbage on these guns.

[Matthew Rosier]

You've got like a little, a little like thing with a power source doing stuff. But yeah. Anyway, that's all

[Ivan (Rat Man)]

I look forward because

[Matthew Rosier]

people have especially silly people have a desire to do the funny. China has a desire to serve the interests of funny people. Right. And so that's how it's always going to be. It's how it's always going to be. Like what do they think? Do they think that if we like switch to the, you know, what's a gun that like the 320. Right. 320 is not a cruciform system. Is that going to solve everything or are they going to figure out a way to do the 320? I mean the 320 already fires just for no reason. I couldn't help it. But anyway, speaking of FFL payment processing dot com. Check out the new website.

[Ivan (Rat Man)]

Wow.

[Matthew Rosier]

This processing industry is built on lock in and wow. It's got fflpaymentprocessing.com if you're in the business, you know someone's in the business. You owe it to yourself to get better rates. FFLPaymentProcessing.com Let them know we sent you. That's important. Otherwise they will treat you like a normal plebeian and as opposed to a normal plebeian that I sent.

[Ivan (Rat Man)]

So yeah, there's a special cue in the velvet pillows.

[Matthew Rosier]

All right, next up, speaking of the sig source.

[Ivan (Rat Man)]

Whoa.

[Matthew Rosier]

It's the second Circuit was like actually you were wrong for dismissing that complaint. So again this is, this is one of the the many policeman who who gave himself Glock leg with a cig.

[Ivan (Rat Man)]

The policeman who gave his life to hurt to help the 320s reputation. Right. Not his life. He didn't die.

[Matthew Rosier]

Yeah.

[Ivan (Rat Man)]

A policeman who gave his ability to walk normal to help the 320 have the reputation it does.

[Matthew Rosier]

So anyway this there was a whole thing about the experts going back and forth. The district court dismissed the case and the second circuit is like yeah, it was a little too much. That was a little too much. And so they turned the case back on. The case can go forward callig source. There was a different case that, that got dismissed but it's it. The ride is not stopping anytime soon. Next up we got the Associated Press. Did you know Ivan that muskets like those from 7076 are most 1776 from today's gun laws. Did you know this is 165 grains of black powder and it's 75 calibers and it can go a thousand 305 meters per second.

[Ivan (Rat Man)]

It's hilarious. Like every time people start quoting black powder numbers to me, it's like oh my God. 165 grains of powder to get like, like 357 Magnum. 44 Magnum levels of muzzle energy. It's like.

[Matthew Rosier]

Brown Bess. Yeah. But it's like imagine what that can do to the human body. Now imagine that it's almost completely exempt from gun regulations. How could it be? Well under the federal most state laws many antiques and replicate guns aren't technically considered fireworks. Most places Even convicted felons can own them. I suspect the average judge would be surprised to find that out, says Second Amendment scholar and gun rights attorney Dave Hardy, himself the proud owner of two Civil War era long guns.

[Ivan (Rat Man)]

He must think the average judge is pretty unintelligent.

[Matthew Rosier]

During an NRA event back in 2000, Charlton Heston famously hoisted a flintlock, the single shot weapon that won the revolution and was still. Yeah, it wasn't the.

[Ivan (Rat Man)]

I don't, I don't, I don't think that. I don't like. That's creative. Right?

[Matthew Rosier]

Yeah. It wasn't the French sitting in the.

[Ivan (Rat Man)]

I don't think it was the French Navy.

[Matthew Rosier]

Yeah. It's going hello.

[Ivan (Rat Man)]

I don't think it was England's completely empty coffers and rampant debt. Yeah. And they're mercenaries saying we won't fight anymore.

[Matthew Rosier]

Yeah, we're gonna stay here and make Pennsylvania sound stupid forever. Single shot weapon that and was still in wide use half a century after Congress debated the second Amendment into the air and said the Democrats would have to take it from my cold dead hands. He needn't have worried.

[Ivan (Rat Man)]

Yeah.

[Matthew Rosier]

This is just some. This is just stupid. So you can always tell like I

[Ivan (Rat Man)]

hate to just call it rage bait, but they put up a little, little video together for it too. And it's like, come on, dude, there's

[Matthew Rosier]

a bunch of reenactors. Like it was like they interviewed a

[Ivan (Rat Man)]

bunch of reenactors where it was like we like doing this because it's cool and it's history and these things aren't really that dangerous. And then, and then the AP's narrative here is like very clear where it's like, oh my gosh. And this is terrifying. You could gun imagine the power

[Matthew Rosier]

care. Well, even in like England you can own. Actually in England you can own guns that are like even more advanced than. Than what.

[Ivan (Rat Man)]

Yes.

[Matthew Rosier]

Falls under our. But if you own the ammo, they put you in the cage anyway.

[Ivan (Rat Man)]

It's just a, it's very, it's very silly and I guess it's maybe then an example of there is an Overton window, but there is still so much work yet to do or like anti gunners quote unquote discover. And I guess the, the, the occasion in this, in this instance is the 250th anniversary of our country. And and I guess many of them might have gotten curious about like what does it take to own the 250 year gun? And you're like, oh my gosh, you can just own something that's like comically Obsolete. You can just have it.

[Matthew Rosier]

Yeah, that like. And here's the funny thing is like, let's say you just buy it. You need somebody to teach you how to use one. Even like, like you can look online and stuff, but you really do need. You know when I first started doing black powder and it's like, wait, no, I say that as if I continued doing it. The times I've played with black powder. You want to have a nerd there, right? Because it's actually pretty easy to fuck up.

[Ivan (Rat Man)]

Hilariously, putting 165 grains of powder into a gun and then putting your hands in front of it is insane. Yeah, it's crazy.

[Matthew Rosier]

Yeah. Well, and also, it's like, you also need to understand that like black powder thinks air is so cool. Right. And if you let it eat some, it will do. Yeah, it will blow up.

[Ivan (Rat Man)]

And if you put too little powder in the gun, then the gun, the gun is ready to explode.

[Matthew Rosier]

Yeah, the gun's just like desperate to kill you for no reason. And they act like this is like, oh, criminals can do this or whatever. It's like, yeah, most criminals, I feel like if they just tried to like start doing with a black powder, like with a muzzleloader, they fuck themselves up pretty fast.

[Ivan (Rat Man)]

There's, there's this Instagram channel which was like very, very popular. Like the thing that made the most viral I think was like they dress up in colonial clothes and then used a bunch of like urban slang describing a sailing ship that they were on a sailing museum ship, describing it as their hellcat. They were going to whip it through the canals. But they do other videos where they like fool around with black powder muskets and shoot mannequins and stuff with them. And the whole time I was like reading this AP article, I couldn't like in the back of my head I was just like, I can't stop thinking about like, like the hooligans in hellcats with black powder firearms. Like having a showdown in the street. Like doing like a drive by in a hellcat with a musket where you just, you know, all like six feet of your gun out the window and just click. We miss. Go around the block while I reload. Just like the whole thing. Is this, is this what we're gonna complain about today? We run out of things to complain about. Yeah, I gotta complain about reenactors having their toys.

[Matthew Rosier]

You know what? There's nothing to complain about. Patriot Patch Co. Guys, look at this. Fine. It's so nice. And PVC, it's soft and good and detailed. Patriot Patch Co is the longest time supporter of the show. You need to go to their website, patriotpatch Co. They've got closeout deals. Look at the sale. Sale, sale, sale, sale, sale. Use promotional code TWIG10. That's TWIG10 to get yourself a discount. Oh, look at all this. You can put your blood type on it. You can put your. All this. Look at this. I'm a Patreon. Guns are part of my origin. Ghosts on a post. Look at all that.

[Ivan (Rat Man)]

Whoa.

[Matthew Rosier]

Little guys. Go on the website purchase.

[Ivan (Rat Man)]

Oh, the taco. The taco is kind of funny. The taco with an AK Snack Ops Meal Team six.

[Matthew Rosier]

Oh, yeah, that's. That's pretty good.

[Ivan (Rat Man)]

It's got.

[Matthew Rosier]

Oh, only taco is left. Get them limited release guys. There's not that many of taco. You got to pick them up. Yeah, Patriot Patch Co. All right.

[Ivan (Rat Man)]

It's only been one week. Look, you guys got an extra long episode considering it was only one week.

[Matthew Rosier]

Yeah, that's crazy. You guys are so spoiled

[Ivan (Rat Man)]

at the engagement bait. Now what do they have to put in the comments? They have to put in the comments. This is your. This is your assigned. Your assigned coursework and you can't use AI And I'll use an AI detector and I'll check. Your assigned coursework is. You have to. You have to pick one article that resonated with you and you have to give five reasons why and then you have to respond to two other people's comments or else you're gonna fail this class. Dude.

[Matthew Rosier]

Yeah, you're done. But yeah, thank you, guys.

[Ivan (Rat Man)]

Use the comments as a discussion board.

[Matthew Rosier]

You know, what's. You know, it's interesting though. Like we. Anyway, it doesn't matter.

[Ivan (Rat Man)]

It's very important.

[Matthew Rosier]

No, but thanks guys for coming as always, we will see you next time.

[Ivan (Rat Man)]

Sa.

[Matthew Rosier]

Foreign. This podcast has been a production of the Firearms Radio Network. For more visit firearmsradio.net.