B (3:18)

And I'm gonna, you know, the chase cars, you know, that follow a car behind, or, like, a support yacht that follows another yacht. You need, like, a support skier who just kind of goes behind you and then shoots up a flare gun if you ever eat it. Because we.

A (3:29)

We have a name for it. It's called a guide.

B (3:32)

You need a guide.

A (3:33)

You need a guide. You know, if you can afford it, you can have a guide. So I should have had a guide if I was gonna go out alone, and I didn't. And so then the next two days, I skied. I just met random people on the mountain. I was like, are you alone? Like, yeah. I was like, wan guys? Like, are you Jake Al? I say, yeah. He recognize my voice. I wear, like, a full mask.

B (3:51)

Imagine all of that money being spent on skiing when you could actually go out and go snowboarding like a cool person. Sad times, Jason. But maybe we'll convert you one of these.

A (3:58)

Plenty of snowboarders out there having a good time. All right, so we got. It's the year of our Lord AO 29 after open club. We're 29 days into this, and a lot has occurred. Alex. I did. I called, like, a code red at the company. I had, like, three people working on openclaw. Not on the podcast, but, like, actually building agents. And I said, hey, just have five people get together this weekend and learn how to use open claw. Just, you know, no pressure, just on a Sunday if you opt in. And, like, I think 15 people opted in, so they did training all Sunday. Everybody got up to speed on it. And now I'm starting to think that I'm going to wind up buying everybody in the company, a Mac studio to be running their agent locally. Because you run into roadblocks with this openclaw for people who don't know Open Claw, open source agent technology. We're going to talk about it today. We're going to talk about it until it stops becoming a massive. What would be the way to say this? A massive accelerant to efficiency in corporations. I'll stop talking about it when it slows down. But it's speeding up. It's speeding up away from even me and my team, because we've been in this since day one, basic or not day one. We've been in it for 29 days and it was around for maybe two weeks before that. We've been in it and we feel like we can't keep up with the changes that are happening. But I think you need Alex to have your own desktop. Why? People are starting to block the agents.

B (5:32)

Yes.

A (5:32)

I think Gemini today said they're going to block it. I think Claude's blocking it on one of their plans and other services like Reddit, they want you to use the API. X wants you to use the API. So when you go and ask it, hey, can you go to X and pull out my DMs and put them into a table for me? Because I don't have time to read them. Can you go get my LinkedIn messages? Can you go do some research for me? Can you get a Reddit account and log in every day and summarize the stuff? It's like, I can't do that, I can't do that, I can't do that. But if you're on a desktop machine, you can kind of spoof it, you know, do it in a browser window with the Claude extension or an extension or whatever. Long story short, this thing is worth the investment. And anybody who's listening to my voice, go back and listen to all the other previous openclaw episodes. I think we have an Open Claw playlist, or just go backwards in reverse chronological order. I think every episode we're talking 50 to 100 about this technology. Never seen anything like it in my career. Never seen anything like it in my career. It's the equivalent of broadband, the Internet itself, cloud, mobile, roll it all up into one. This AI boom, as manifested in openclaw and openclaw. Standing on the shoulders of a lot of giants. The Manifestation that I'm seeing right now is unlike anything I've seen in my career. It's like taking five giant waves and putting them together into a tsunami. I think we'll be able to automate 10% of our work a week. 5% a week doesn't seem like a lot, but I thought it would be 5 or 10% a month, and I was happy with that. But 5% a week compounding means, hey, listen, every 14, 15 weeks, we're gonna be doubling our efficiency. I am looking for things for IT to do. I'm giving it access to everything. And I'll talk at the end of the show about some of the things I'm building that are. Alex, if you remind me, I am scary. And every CEO's dream scary. Every CEO is dreaming.

B (7:25)

All right, so we have Oliver Henry. By day, he works at revenuecat. At night, he is an open claw hacke. He is the guy behind the basically viral Larry skill, and he's building a product called Larry Brain that we'll talk about later on. Oliver, welcome to the show.

C (7:39)

Thank you very much for having me. It's been one hell of a journey the last couple of weeks, going from just under a thousand followers on X to talking about Larry and what he succeeded. And now I'm on almost 13. So it's been a crazy couple of weeks.

B (7:54)

I feel like we're all in the same time warp, including my dear friend Jeff. Jeff is a solopreneur, four products to his name, and he uses OpenCloud to help automate extend himself. And he's built some really cool tools, including tips for newcomers. Jeff, welcome to the show.

D (8:09)

Thanks, Alex. Really glad to be here. Openclaw has changed my entire solopreneur lifestyle. It's. It's been incredible the amount of things I've been able to automate. Like Jason was saying earlier, I look for things all the time and I'm always integrating new, new things that people have built skills or even building my own. I built one for Reddit the other day because they have one for called Bird. I'm sure you're familiar with it if you're using OpenClaw for. For Twitter, but they don't really have one for Reddit. So I built a similar type of tool and put that online, open sourced it, but that was pretty tell us

A (8:41)

about or show us that tool because that's the tool I need right now. One of my big blockers is I'm always trying to get the recent trends off of Reddit and then it winds up doing a Google search and digesting those pages. I wish Reddit would just come up with a pro account and let me pay 50 bucks a month to have my open claw have an account on Reddit. Like I should have my account and then Reddit. Steve Huffman, you're awesome. Congratulations on all the success of Reddit of late. Here's my plan. I will pay 50 bucks a month, maybe even a hundred as a power user to Reddit be happily pay this. I want to have my account which was like Jason Caliganis or Jason M. Calacanis be able to add my replicant. So I get to add it. I'm responsible for it. So I will say, you know, I'm not going to let it post, I'm not going to let it do anything nefarious, but I want it to be able to follow my activity and do its own activities. What are the own activities I want to do? I just want to keep abreast of conversations. This weekend I had Claude code and I was doing with openclaw as well. Claude Cowork. I was just trying to make a weekly dossier for Thursday Alex of everything that every Austin newspaper subreddit mentioned was on tap for the weekend or might be interesting. That weekend I did it. It worked. It wound up getting some things from Yelp and got some things from Reddit and the two restaurants I went to Saturday and Sunday with the kids were selected by my open Claude cowork. Pretty crazy moment.

B (10:17)

So you've actually you're now an agentic parent.

A (10:20)

Jason for small businesses, every hire matters, but you've got limited time and resources to spend on growing your team. That's why there's LinkedIn Hiring Pro, your trusted partner for zeroing in on the right candidates or right away. Finding a great person is so hard. You need a trusted partner like LinkedIn where there are a billion members. And for founders, sometimes hiring becomes a full time job on its own. And any founder who has spent days doing interviews with candidates knows how valuable it would be to just skip the line and only have to meet with the best possible applicants. That's where LinkedIn Hiring Pro can streamline your entire process. Nearly 60% of hires find a candidate to interview in their first week and hiring the wrong person not only wastes a ton of your valuable time, but it's going to impact morale at your company. You know that they become a total drain on the entire team. We spent weeks hiring a new editor for the pod rearranged and we rearranged our entire production team and they quit on the first day. Oh, it wasn't a match. We should have trusted LinkedIn jobs, and we did. And now we have a great editor who is dialed in. So hire right the first time, post your first job and get $100 off towards your post@LinkedIn.com hiringpro offer. That's LinkedIn.com hiringpro offer. Terms and conditions do apply. Well, yeah, and I think it's time for Reddit to recognize this or X to recognize it and just let me add this account and pair it with me. This would be a way to say, we know that agents are on these services, but this one is being paid for and I'm responsible for their behavior. Just like if I took you to a poker game, Alex, and you got drunk and threw the chips in the air. Air, whatever. You caused a ruckus. Like, it's my responsibility and you could just limit it. Like, I don't have to go. I'm not going to go crazy and scrape all of Reddit. I just, like, I have 20 topics I want to keep abreast of. That's.

B (12:12)

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm going to. So here is the Red skill that Jeff put together. Jeff, for folks who don't know Bird, explain to them what it does and why we need this.

D (12:21)

So Bird for Open Claw just basically lets you search and reply to people on. On Twitter or X your Open Claw account. And what Red does is it uses the cookies through Safari the same way Bird does for Twitter, but for Reddit. And it'll let you. And what I've done, like, what you're looking to do, Jason, is I. When Discord recently made the announcement that they were doing the face scans and uploading all that data, there was a pretty big backlash. And one of the products I've built is kind of a social chat app. And. And so I was trying to capitalize on opportunity. So I went to Reddit because a lot of people were looking for alternatives, and I just had to kind of search through and find me the best opportunities. That way

B (13:07)

people picked it up. Is it popular, this new, new skill?

D (13:11)

I haven't really put it out there very much, honestly. I just. I just uploaded it because I thought someone else might eventually stumble across it.

B (13:17)

Man, that is the worst marketing job from one of the best marketers I know I've ever heard. That's incredible. Oliver, I want to bring you in here because your skill, Larry, interacts with TikTok. And I'm curious if you've run into the same sort of Permissions issues that Jason is describing over there on the short video front.

C (13:36)

Yeah. So I have hit a ton of problems with trying to get these Open Claw machines on any social media. So as you've touched on, the crackdown of these agents is, I think, really against the grain to where things are heading. I believe that these social media companies should embrace the, the Open Claw overlords and let them on the platform and it's a great way to get that extra bit of monetization. Currently, the people using Open Claw machines and are fortunate enough to be buying Mac Minis, etc likely can afford the extra subscription to help them become even more powerful. So at the moment I'm paying for X APIs. I'm paying for all these different APIs for all my agents. So I may as well pay for Reddit. I may as well pay for, I don't know, even Facebook. If that's your target audience, how are you using it?

A (14:27)

And if you have a demo, feel free to share it. But how are you using your agents on X?

C (14:32)

So I've just created a skill that would help with the launch of Larry Brain. So when I launched it, there was a ton of questions and I directed everyone to just at Larry. And then on Larry's own Twitter account, he uses the official X API to just monitor his engagements.

A (14:49)

And.

C (14:50)

And I've created a open source Zendesk alternative. So Larry automatically creates tickets, he assigns them criticality and also suggest fixes. So I can then go through, see what the tickets are, see if they're legit, see if they're needed. And then I've got a button that just fix.

A (15:09)

Larry Brain is your product. It's LarryBrain.com, am I correct?

C (15:13)

So I've got LarryBrain.com but that stemmed from the Larry TikTok skill, which I can.

B (15:17)

Right. Which I was hoping you could show us, Oliver.

C (15:20)

Yes. So this is my Larry skill. This is Larry his chat. I use WhatsApp and this is basically the output. So I'll scroll up so you can see what he's been doing. But he gets revenue analytics and creates TikTok content to drive downloads and conversions to my apps. They're his goals. When I first set up Larry, his goal I told him was to make more money.

A (15:45)

So.

C (15:45)

So we did this by marketing my app. So I created a Snuggly app, which was a RevenueCat internal hackathon and I decided that I want to market it. I've notoriously always hated marketing. I've had an app for two years that I've been trying to automate the marketing for, for a very long time and OpenCrawl finally gave me all the skills and all the connections I need to be able to do it in a good way. So Larry has access to all my engagements all the way through the top of the funnel at TikTok, all the way down to the news and conversions using Revenuecat APIs. So here you can see the comments we've got and we can scroll down to him suggesting hooks. So these are hooks based off the data of what is performing on TikTok.

A (16:32)

You make software tools, you want to market them and the way you're marketing them is through TikTok videos. You created an agent with Openclock called Larry. You told Larry, make me more money. And you gave Larry access to the TikTok data by logging into your account, I assume, or using some third party tool. And it told it how many comments, how many views, et cetera you got for each one. Then you asked it based on that, come up with ideas, editorial ideas based on those previous ones. Correct. So what was his best idea here?

C (17:14)

So what Larry does, he actually does all that himself. I don't feed him anything. So Larry will post and then daily he will look at the TikTok content and see what is performing, see how his post yesterday's performed all the way through TikTok, interactions and views to new users on the app and conversions on the app.

A (17:32)

So what suggestion did he come up with? Yeah, let's, let's read it out loud so he can, the audience can get the benefit here.

C (17:40)

So based on historical data that we've already uploaded, he can see that emotional family hooks get the most views. So we got 413,000 views for mom and dad hooks, 202,000 for the one starting with nan. And then landlord conflicts are consistently 100 to 200,000 views. So based on that data, he has suggested certain hooks. So my landlord said redecorating would lower the property value. So I showed her what AI design what AI can do for our bathroom and now she's asking to do that to her flat too. My nan keeps.

A (18:14)

And put in there. Yeah, for that one. The second suggestion, it also put a skull in there, which is something that like Gen Z does. They put a skull in to like express like I'm dead. And then it actually gave a call, a cta, a call to action, screenshot it and show your landlord link in bio. So not only is it studying it, it's coming up with, you know, even the call to action and the copy which is really great. Now does it actually make an ad?

C (18:42)

Yes. So then it's interesting on the call to action, I want to touch on that. So the call to action. Larry knows that if a TikTok gets a lot of views but not many new users have the app. Cause he's got all the context of what happens in the app. He knows that the CTA needs fixing. He knows if it got a lot of views, not many users download the app, the CTA needs fixing if it got not many views, but a big percentage of those viewers downloaded the app. The hook needs fixing and the CTA is fine. So it's all iterative. This is all Larry making these decisions. And then he creates images using OpenAI Image Chat GPT Image 1.5 and he'll create the images to make the his story from the slideshow and then overlay the text and post it using posters, which is also where he gets the analytics from. And all I have to do is for example, there will be one ready so I can go to my TikTok, I get this platform notification, not this gen viral one, but there'll be one from Larry somewhere. So this is a, an old one from five days ago that I didn't get around to posting and I just click this and this is what Larry's created and all I have to do is add the sound and a description now.

A (19:56)

So he puts it in your draft folder. So he's like your creative director, puts it in the draft folder, sends it to the CEO and says hey, if you like any of these, hit publish and you know we're ready to go. So there is a human in the loop here. Running a startup means you've got to manage dozens to hundreds of devices. Every employee at my company has a work phone, they have a laptop, maybe they have a tablet in some cases, or a desktop. You could pay for an entire IT team to manage your software updates, security patches and policing everyone's password and software. Or you could sign up with our new partner, eru iru ERU and get enterprise grade security at a startup friendly price. ERU turns small IT teams into force multipliers and they're going to automate your onboarding, patching and compliance. Whether you're on a Mac, Windows or Android, set your policies once and then trust that they're going to be enforced perfectly, flawlessly, deftly. And if you have an issue, support's gonna respond in minutes, not days. ERU does it right and one ERU customer told us they run their entire ID department with just two staffers. This is an at scale company, so stop spending time on device management and start spending it on projects that grow your business. Book a demo@uru.com twist that's iru.com twist

C (21:13)

the only reason a human is in the loop because TikTok knows if something's posted through API. So this circles all the way back around to what you were saying about platforms not not really catering for the APIs. TikTok will really nerf the amount of views that you get if you post through an API. And you can't publish a slideshow with sound through the API. So the only reason I do this is not to get it checked. It is for engagement. So I can add the sound and I can show you that if I add the sound and then click next Larry already has the description so all I have to do is add the sound, press post and I do that simply for engagement. And I can show you the I won't post this one, but I can show you the the profile, how it's performing. So the last one didn't do too good, but you can see that we've had 160,000 views, 130,000, 200,000. This one got 400,000. But then we try some and they don't work. So this one gets 2000. He tries something new. Now we know it doesn't work, we won't try it again. So every now and then he'll throw a new one in there to see how it performs and then we'll go back to what's working. So there is some experience.

A (22:23)

How did you do this? How did you do this previously?

C (22:26)

Oh, so this previously I was writing scripts to do this. So I had a football related app, soccer in the US and I would write a script to create hook and demo videos. So I would record loads of hooks of my face, have one demo of the app and then I would write a all my hooks in a text file and then the script would just mash them all together. So put the two videos together and put different text and then I would bulk upload them to upload via API each time.

A (23:01)

So it was basically you were doing all this work now doing it as

C (23:05)

the solopreneur and it has saved me so much time and over 3,000 people are now using Larry and the feedback has been incredible. So I really think I've done a net positive for OpenClaw and for a lot of people who also hate marketing as much.

B (23:19)

Yeah Oliver, one more thing from You. So we were going over this in a pre call and I was like, can you show it to me live? And you said no, because I'm using batch processing from I think it was through OpenAI. Can you just explain why you made that choice and why other people might want to consider using that in their open clause setup?

C (23:35)

To preface, Larry doesn't just post slideshows. He the core of Larry is the full analytic funnel from top to bottom. And no matter what your product is, he can track metrics to a website, he can track downloads to an app, he can track product purchases. But you can create whatever content you want. I created it with GPT image 1.5 because the app Snuggly is an interior design app that transforms your room using AI and it uses GPT image 1.5. So I just wanted the content to match what the user is going to see in the app. You can use anything you want. I use the batch processing because it's recently come out from OpenAI and it just saves money on the processes. So the benefit is Larry can then post create all the slideshows in the morning to post throughout the day. And it just saves me a ton of money posting them. I mean this is creating them at the time.

A (24:29)

And it's literally, I think when people. The reason I'm so stuck on this, Alex, and making sure we show over and over and over again how people are building this to people who are the tip of the spears is we're going to see this solo entrepreneur movement or just, you know, two, three person company. But instead of doing what they used to do, which is having to hire people to do all these job functions. The last three years, what I saw founders doing was asking ChatGPT and they would ask it, how do I write a press release? How do I do a job description? How do I negotiate a convertible note? What's the difference between a convertible note and a safe? How do I file a trademark, how do I negotiate a domain purchase, all this stuff. And they would get educated really fast. So they became like superhuman. It was like Keanu Reeves in the Matrix sitting down. They plug him in and he wakes up and he knows kung fu. Now this is totally different. This is like I'm going to make a replicant who goes out in the world and it goes and learns and it goes and does something. And the foul, the, the failure of humans is our inconsistency and the success of computers is their consistency. And that's why it's been this great collaboration for the last 50 years or so. But the challenge has always been the computers aren't very creative or iterative and that it's hard. You have to write code to get them to understand it. Now, you don't have to write code. You talk in English, and it's recursive. And this is where we really have to pause for a second and appreciate what Oliver is doing. Oliver's building this, right? He's having Larry, his replicant, recursively learn how to get better and better and better at the job. You and I, Alex, if we were gonna do a job like, we try to get better, but we forget we got lives, we got kids, we got sleep, you gotta eat. Sometimes you get sick. These things are now going and learning now. Oliver, are you doing any other, like, training for your replicant other than just on its own work? Because what we did is internally, we set up every Saturday that one of our replicants goes and does the latest research for only the past week on how to do better titles, how to do better thumbnails, et cetera, et cetera. It came back this week and said Mr. Beast released how they're doing thumbnails now, and it summarized it for us on Sunday. And I saw it. I would never. I would have remembered, oh, I got to get better at thumbnails. And it said, oh, Mr. Beast is using a heat map piece of software that's available. They put 50 thumbnails in it, they test it across X number of people, then they take the top five thumbnails, and then they do a second test with those top five and see which ones do better. And I was like, oh, heat maps for thumbnails. That might be a little too much for a podcast, but it's kind of interesting, right? So we're having it go out and teach itself. Oliver, have you thought of that? Like, go out on Reddit and X and YouTube and find people talking about how to get better at a skill?

C (27:30)

Yeah. So not. Not particularly the skill, but when I first created Larry, I installed him, and I headed out the house, I went to a soccer match, and I was in the stadium knowing exactly what I want to do, texting him about the goal of this marketing that I wanted to achieve. And the first thing we did was send him into the world on X using the bird skill before it sort of got became a gray area with X and sent him the accounts that I follow that show post slideshow, content marketing content for apps. And I had him just research all that data and see what worked, just to get to a point where we could start. And now I don't really have to do that anymore because he's. He's building his own data. And of course this is going to vary by product to product. So you just have to start. And if you're not getting the hundreds, tens of thousands of views to start, just wildly create different content. Tell your agent, use the Larry skill, say, create different content until something works. At the very bottom of this page, we experimented with faces. So people with different reactions, they didn't get any views. And then as soon as we posted this one, 20,000 views and we were double down and it's taken off. So just do it until what works and it will learn itself. It's pretty, pretty special.

B (28:50)

Jeff, this iterative process we're describing reminds me a little bit of your core loop setup that you have as part of your openclaw guide here. One thing that I was curious about is how you have humans built in here. This is you reviewing and kind of course correcting what your agent does. So can you talk us through the core loop? And then we have that demo plan? Let's. Let's do it.

D (29:09)

Yeah. Okay.

A (29:10)

So.

D (29:10)

So basically the way the core loop works is I am still involved in the process. But the. But the process is everything is. Is run through openclaw. So I essentially text it through imessage, I will send it screenshots of the apps I'm working on. All, all the things I'm working on, bug reports, any kind of console logging, and then it just kind of figures it out. What I've realized is when I used to do this manually before open claw existed, 30 days ago, 29 days ago, I would have to manually, like, think of an idea of how, how I wanted to build a feature into my app, kind of run through Claude code with it and have it spec it out and figure all this stuff out. But what I'm realizing now is when a computer is talking to another computer, I feel like it's just smarter. It just. They get each other better for some reason. Like, the features that it is producing are of much higher quality and better value. Less bugs right out of the gate than when I'm prompting it. It's insane.

A (30:09)

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D (31:13)

so what, what I've done in my system in OpenClaw is I've built in additional memory that logs every day. If it's not written down, it's not. It's not remembered. So everything that I send it, it's remembering. And I just built in recently share core memory that between the different agents that I have, I have four, I have fubs, I have Quill, I have Patches and Scout, and those guys now communicate with one another. So wouldn't it be helpful if the code knew what the marketing agent was doing? So that way when it wrote the copy that it actually wrote copy that was aligned with the feature set.

A (31:51)

So how do you sync that memory file between them or just point them all to one file? Because that's not default in openclaw, is it? Because each one has their own memory.

D (32:01)

So that's actually I sent a link to Alex earlier to my starter kit that I built out and put on GitHub and it has all that kind of built into it, essentially what we're doing. Because as you noted, the memory doesn't exist in like the vanilla open claw. It's a memory MD file and basically it gets more knowledge every day. And as you maintain it and you feed it more information, like I'll send it links to tweets or articles that I think that are worth reading, that it should know about. And now proactively, when I'm building in the future, it'll know about that article or that tweet I sent it and it'll be. And it'll say, well, here's what you know, Jason said on Twitter about X, you know, the future of openclaw and where it's headed, and maybe you should consider this before you build this feature, you know, type of skill. So it's. I think the, I think getting it to be as proactive as possible is really more important than automating as much as possible, so to speak. You want it to make your life faster, easier, and the real kind of throttle is how fast you can make good decisions, you know, at the end of the day.

B (33:09)

So show us fubs. You have a demo of that from imessage and how you use it. And same thing with Oliver. Just make sure you sportscast as you talk through what you're showing us or

D (33:18)

I'm going to share my, my imessage window with FUBS right here. Hold on one second.

B (33:24)

Jeff. I'm not going to lie. I have to ask. Why is it called fubs?

D (33:29)

Okay, so this is, this is pretty crazy, but I had a. I started a web forum called Best techie when I was a 13 year old kid. And on the web forum there was a guy who registered and his name was Fubs. And I always thought it was a great name and I just stole it. Sorry, fubs here, I'm sharing my screen now. So what I'm going to do is I'm just going to start recording us talking and if Jason or Alex want to give out, you know, essentially where you want to build a landing page to talk about whatever it is you want to talk about.

B (34:03)

All right, I'll take a stab at that. Fubs, could you build me a landing page that describes how Jason Kellocanish should ski safely in the future to ensure stability here at launch company?

D (34:18)

Cool. All right, so I'm going to save this, gonna send it to fubs.

B (34:22)

So while we're waiting for that, Jeff, what is the method by which you're getting the audio handled on the openclaw side?

D (34:30)

So the audio, this is just standard through imessage audio. It basically openclaw, I think, I believe does have. You know, sometimes I forget what comes out of the box, but I believe you can send in messages out of the box.

B (34:48)

Oh, I didn't know that. I learned something.

D (34:50)

I'm not sure exactly if that comes out of the box or not, but you can't, you can do it essentially. So while I just talk to it, usually via text, I don't type talk to it that much. Although talking is, I think honestly the future. Where we should be looking is a lot of voice based stuff.

A (35:07)

I agree with you. I'm starting to now get frustrated. This is how entitled I am with my open claw. I am getting frustrated with having to Type and instruct it. And I'm literally like, let's skip the voice and just put it into my brain. Like give me a neuralink so I can just think what I want. But I think this is a short term thing because onboarding these is like, I think like onboarding a new employee, but an employee who is in works infinite hours at an infinitely faster speed. So I guess we have to maybe just accept the fact that it's going to take, you know, 30 days to obsolete ourselves, which is what kind of feel is happening.

B (35:54)

We had Matt Van Horn on From the last 30 days a couple times and I think he was the guy using a specific mic on his desk, Jason and then whisper flow to talk to it. And in the moment I was like, that's a little bit fussy. Why do you need that? But I've also found the same thing that when I'm typing to any AI, not just open cloud, but even like a ChatGPT instance, it feels incredibly slow because I can talk, I think a little faster than I can type, even though I can type pretty quickly. And so suddenly it feels like I'm walking through mud. And that's not how I've ever felt before using a computer. I felt fast before, but now I feel slow. So I think this is like demanding new interfaces.

D (36:30)

I joke now that I could only. I'm moving at the speed of compute because I can only go as fast as the computer lets me go sometimes.

A (36:37)

Yeah. All right, here we go. Keep Jason safe on the mountain. A website.

B (36:41)

Yeah. So this is a pretty simple demo, Jason. But what, what FUBS can do, and what Jeff showed me offline was that he's also using it to hunt down bugs and build features and that sort of thing. But that's not very visually appealing. So we settled on this to show it off in practice.

A (36:55)

Love it.

D (36:56)

So essentially what this did was it put together this entire website for you. I can send you a link, I'll put it in the chat. But basically. And then it spun it up on Vercel and, and now it's available for everyone to visit. But a lot of the stuff that I'm doing is really like troubleshoot, like doing things in real time. So like I don't think pull requests should be a thing anymore. Like you should be able to fix things pretty much instantaneously if you feel, if you see a bug. And that's pretty much what I'm doing. And so for example, I can, I can show you the fave icon on my website for cackles which is my social app, wasn't working. So I said fix the fav icon on Cackles. And this is what it did. It found the issue, there's no fav icon. And then it pushed a push an update and I have to press any more buttons. It was live just like that. I asked it this morning, is my app down? I can't log in. And it was just happened to be a bug that it found because it logged me out overnight. Feature requests. I was able to build feature requests. This was also this morning. And this happens like this was just the other day. I fixed 10 bugs in a matter of few hours. It's amazing the amount of how fast I can work using OpenClaw technology here.

A (38:14)

How much faster if you were to just put a number on it. How much faster are you going in terms of devs side of the business?

D (38:21)

Yeah, I couldn't code before but from the marketing perspective, like I'm doing full outreach to people with research on them, understanding who they are, why we should reach out to them, what copy, we should say, what platforms to reach out to them. Actually automating the out the output and sending it to them. Like I'm like that would take days, weeks, you know, by myself, maybe more, you know to find all that is

A (38:46)

going to be an interesting moment in time when people have so many replicants out there contacting humans and then humans are like, you know what? I need a replicant to get in my email box to respond to these and it's just going to be like a constant back and forth. Very cool uses there.

B (39:02)

So just we have a lot of questions from the audience about memory inside of OpenCloud. People are really fired up about this. So a couple of questions for the room here. Jason, this one's for you. BigWill0504 says I want to hear about long term memory management for Ultron, which is the launch meta. OpenClaw setup has performance degraded at all over the last few weeks as context balloons.

A (39:25)

Yeah tbd. We are waiting on our Mac studios and I'm on a Mac Mini right now. So I've just gotten on the Mac Mini and it's helping me get to different pages. What I was going to show actually is a good segue there. This is what I'm having my replicant do just for me. I gave it access to the entire company's notion, the entire company slack and the entire company's Google Docs. So for myself I said hey, just every four hours summarize my email and Tell me what I should be doing. But I realized if I show this on the screen right now, it's going to show, like, people's, what companies we're investing in. So I say just replace any company with color and names of people with animals. So what you can see here is like moose at MooseConsulting about Cobalt Circle back next week, yada, yada. This one should be archived. It's just a billing, etc. So now I'm starting to put into its memory all the important emails. And then I said, hey, do this with notion as well. Give me the last 10 notion pages from the last. Which is just from the last 14 minutes in our company. And it says, oh, there's an untitled page here by Hummingbird. It's empty. Here's a chartreuse one. Now, these could be private pages. These could be pages I don't know about. This is the last 10 pages. Yeah, yeah. And so this is incredibly powerful for the CEO to just understand the pulse of the company. So now what I'm doing is. And then here it says, oh, here's this one. They've. This is a company report. We just did our first call with Jaguar, and here's what they do, and they've got 91% trial conversion. All this stuff is coming in. So now I'm saying, hey, number this stuff. I'm going to ask you questions about those. And then it will fire off. I had it fire off over the weekend. Just email everybody on the or Slack, everybody on the team and say, do you have any. Do you have any questions for Jason? And is there anything that's blocking you from getting work done? And it just sent it to everybody. Now it's gonna put into its brain, what are the blockers that we have for the company. Then I'm gonna take the team report. So I'm gonna have the investment team, the podcast team and the sales team, and I'm gonna make a ticker, a live ticker, where we all see each other working in the hive mind. Here's like. So, Alex, when we had this issue with, I think you were producing Monday show, and maybe Jacob was doing Wednesdays, and we invited the same guest and there was a thing. So the solution to that is everybody's emails in real time, everybody's notion page, everybody's Slack messages, you already see them. But then having the agents say, hey, we've got four discussions going on with companies that are negotiating term sheets and it's dragged on past the average of three days. Hey, we've Got no, we've got too many guests on the show. We got too much booked. You know, we're gonna need some help over there. And the idea is to have everybody sharing all information and then having that one Ultron becoming the ultimate CEO. So I don't have to be the CEO or hire a CEO, they're just CEOing. They understand the entirety of the company. And then they will ask questions to each member. Hey, Alex, anything blocking you? Oh, Alex is like, yeah, you know, my computer's slow. I need a new computer. Great. All of these questions will come up and it's a little bit creepy, I guess, because people have this sense that, like, oh, they're documents or their work product. Like, oh, I'm not ready to share it now. Whatever. That's kind of over now with this next generation. They all live in public, they all work in public, they all live stream. So for old heads like me and Alex, like Gen Xers might be like, wait a second, like, my email's my email. It's like, nope, that's your corporate email. And we're a finance company. So I don't know, maybe a year ago when we had to lock all the computers down because of some partners we have, many partners we have who require, like, a certain level of security because of documents. We have, like, legal documents. We gifted everybody their old computers or told them, like, just don't do anything on your corporate computer ever that would be embarrassing to you and. Or the company. The corporate communications, all owned by the company, and it's all stored forever. This is like standard for JP Morgan or Goldman Sachs, but at a startup or a venture firm, you might not think it. So we've been very. It's very interesting. We've been very clear with people to be very thoughtful about that. So now with the sales team, I was always asking questions to the sales team. Now I don't have to answer questions. If I want to know if a contract's been signed or not. Ultron knows.

B (44:12)

Yeah.

A (44:12)

If I want to know if we've talked to a client and when we last talked to them, I don't have to ask the salesperson or the sales manager, hey, these five clients, when's the last time we talked to them? It'll just tell me. It knows. It knows everything. It's the Oracle. It's the Ultron. And that's what I think is going to change is the whole communication friction and the processing of it and the understanding of what the organization's doing is going to just instantly be removed the number one complaint people have about their company, the highest performing companies, the lowest performing companies and everybody in between. You ask any employee what do we need to do better? And they say communication. They say, absolutely. It's like always communication. Oh, we got to communicate better. I didn't know about this. I didn't know about that. Now it's like, you know what? You got your wish. Ask the Oracle. The Oracle knows all. There is nothing in a silo. Break all silos.

B (45:08)

Yeah, no, it's interesting. It feels like the age of transparency is kind of upon us. So long as our agents can access the information in question. Yeah, Jason, you're talking about Notion and Slack. These are products that are kind of tech first, if you will, tech forward, tech friendly. They have ways to interact with them. A lot of stuff out there doesn't. So do you think that in time we're going to see even legacy software create like agentic hooks so that way you.

A (45:31)

They're going to have to or else they'll be out of business. It's a great question. I mean, if you don't have a hook. I was like literally trading text message with Mark Benioff about Slack and he's got Slack bottom which is getting better and better. But Slack Bot compared to Ultron is like Superman compared to like, I don't know, like an average barista at Starbucks. Like one can make coffee and one can save the world. Like, it's just, it's not comparable because of the context and the information it has. So either you're going to need to make Slackbot be able to read everything else in the world or notions AI to read everything else in the world or I think these companies are going to become the systems of record, but the open claw will come in and be able to do it. And there's a limitation on Slack. Like we don't have like true API access. We need like a really root level and I think we have to pay $50 a month per person. Up from 25. Up from like 10.

B (46:32)

Come on, Mark.

A (46:34)

Well, anyway, it's fine. I get it. Like it's six. They it's software. People pay for it. It's worth what you pay for it. But then openclaw told me, why don't you use Matter Post? I was like, here's what I want to do. It's like, well, why don't we just fire up Matter Post? And I was like, what's Matter Post? And I was like, oh, I remember that. Matter Post is an open source version of Slack and it's like, I could set that up for you this weekend. And I was like, huh? And I was like, well, what about our history? He's like, oh, you can export everything and if you don't have the business account for Slack, here's your, here's your hack. Go onto the business account for one month upgrade and then export everything, then cancel or just get rid of the number of users and you can export the entire, you know, even the thumbs up and emojis on your Slack post.

B (47:15)

You're starting to make me think that the SAS crash isn't irrational, Jason, by talking like that.

A (47:20)

It is not irrational. I think we should open up that topic to the team.

B (47:25)

Do you want to do that now or. I was going to.

A (47:28)

You guys. Give me feedback on what my vision is here for the all knowing CEO and the ultimate transparency organization.

B (47:37)

I think it's both a good idea and the future. I think people have become incredibly accustomed to transparency at work. When we did swap to the software that tracks what we do, it was weird for like three days. And then I realized that I'm the world's most boring person and so it doesn't really impact me. Like, oh, Alex is looking at Slack again. You know, it's not, not so big. But Oliver, weigh in for us on memory, long term memory and how it's going to impact corporations because you do have a day job. So I presume this is top of mind for you as well.

C (48:07)

Yeah, honestly, the tools that are coming out, especially internal tools, exactly what Jason's described. Every company, I believe, who is ahead of the curve right now is creating tools that are specifically beneficial to them. And the way of which we are working has massively accelerated. There are ways that you can implement different tools to fit your exact workflow. I think the age of transparency is very much among us because for what you lose in your transparency and your secret emails with clients, which is not very secret anyway, you gain so much back in the time, the efficiency and the way you can do your job. So everyone says AI was going to replace people, but I think for a lot of people it is going to help secure their job because one good employee is now 10 times better with the help of AI.

A (49:02)

Well, unpack that a bit. Give us some examples in your mind of which I'm sure was Alex is going, hey, if we start seeing one employee be able to do the third job, the fourth job, the fifth job, that may not mean I cut the other people, but might it mean I don't hire the 11th person. So walk us through your thinking, Oliver here.

C (49:23)

So my feeling is that the better AR is getting, the good employees that have great worth work ethic, get things done are going to become better employees. But I do think there's going to be a point where those employees are going to be even more horrible than what they currently are. And then the employees that don't cut the slack are going to become less desirable to companies. So there is going to be a trade off in terms of the people getting hired. But I think as long as you're utilizing the tools to not not just keep at the level you are, but use it to accelerate where you are, I think that's going to massively help companies and that, that is the goal of AI. I don't think the goal of AI in the short term is to completely replace people at their company companies. It's just to help enable the, the better employees to get more stuff done. Because what do you think? You want your best players in the team at all time?

B (50:16)

Yeah, yeah. No, but I, I do worry about the B players. Like I, I, as a society we cannot only have an economy for A players. And this is me just worried about. We've all had a friend who has an IQ of 95. What are they gonna do? And bro, I'm on the pod.

A (50:32)

I'm the host of the pod.

B (50:33)

What I would be, I'm rounded up if I was talking about you to a solid 97.

D (50:37)

I would say what I would really be concerned about if I was a person who had a, you know, a software engineering job or just any job really is that it's not just that you might be replaced by an agent. What does it cost to, to hire an agent essentially for you know, to, for that person who's already working for you, like versus versus replacing them completely versus hire in addition to hiring an additional person. Yeah, you know, like where like there's an actual cost to this agent stuff. It's not, it doesn't just, it's not free. You can't just, you know, just run this stuff for free. So it cost me money every month to be able to do all the work that I'm doing. In addition to, you know, you know, paying myself or paying whoever, there's an additional kind of allowance you need to set up for your business that equates to tokens, essentially.

A (51:29)

Yeah, we talked about that on All In. It's just the token cost getting out of control. But we have a plan for that which is, you know, we got Mac Studios and I AM just started to pencil out, like, I think we need like 5 mega replicants and we're going to put specialization into each one. I think that actually is the best way to do it. Just because we don't want to hit upper memory bounds. We don't want them to be slow and grinding to a halt. And it'll create like pools of excellence where I can put two or three employees who are responsible for the first calls at our venture firm, or the three or four people who are in charge of sales and advertising on this week in startups and our events put them just in charge of that. So if they're just in charge of those things, they can scale up and like buying two Mac studios for 10k each and whatever, or spending 25k for four or five or six instances, 100k, 200k. Who cares if it makes everybody that much faster? Because you spread that cost over four years or five years and you're golden. The issue around SaaS, I think, is a big one, Alex, that we should discuss. And there was, you know, this something is happening post from a couple of weeks ago, a video I did with the Bulwark, where I said, listen, I think Amazon employees are all gone by 2030, 2035. And then this one came out, which

B (52:54)

is titled the 2028 Global Intelligence Crisis, from our dear friends at Citrini Research.

A (53:02)

Yeah, so I mean, their basic premises around SaaS, and they're basically saying, hey, when people got on the calls with their SaaS salesperson, they were asking for the standard 5% increase in cost. And the CFO who was working with the CTO said, hey, we love your software, but we're thinking about spinning up our own, which we can do with our frontline developers. Therefore, we'll keep your software, but we want a 30% discount.

B (53:28)

There you go.

A (53:29)

And they make the meta point that all these companies then cut headcount, start using AI tools to make, you know, let's say Salesforce or Asana, I think they used let's make Asana. Let's make Salesforce more efficient as a company. And in the short term their profits went up, but in the long term, they fed the AI how to build their software, where I think they kind of imply this. I kind of read into it that the more you use these tools and the better they get and the more you invest in them, the more you accelerate the compression of profitability of software. Does that make sense? Alex? Am I explaining it correctly? It's like super deflationary.

B (54:06)

It's super Deflationary. Because one thing people Forget is that SaaS was super popular for a couple reasons. One, it was recurring. Yes. But also people hired more people over time, and so you would sell more seats and you could raise prices. And what that did was give SaaS companies a really beautiful tailwind, Jason. It meant that you could invest today. Yeah, a flywheel even. You can invest today in sales and marketing, burn some cash, but who cares? Because you know that that contract will grow by 10, 15% every year. And so the money always made sense, but the moment you start moving that number down, suddenly your CAC looks terrifying. Suddenly you're worried about your marketing efficiency, suddenly you can't count on your revenue the way you could. And SaaS is not durable in that context. It's a sponge you can squish. And the thing that I like about this piece, Jason, from Citrini, is that it, it's not doomer in that, you know, AI will fail or open clause, you know, a hype fad or whatever, but instead it's like, what if it all goes right? What if AI is powerful? What if it is as strong as we think? And I think more people should be thinking about that.

D (55:06)

So I've actually been thinking, I have two SAS businesses that I, that I built. The who covers it and the wizard rfp. And essentially I've been thinking about, well, now I gotta agent fy them. I gotta figure out a way to, to make them. So that way agents, like another agency's agents can talk to them and just basically work through the whole process in a couple of chat messages, as opposed to traditional kind of click here, click here, type a few things, hit a button, wait a second, and then it loads, you know, that's just not going to cut it anymore. And I think, I think as more people start moving towards this environment where, like, I think about computing, how it's evolved and it's crazy because we're, we know we were, we were pointing, click and type for a while. Now we're tap, tap, tap on a screen where we're, you know, and now we're just. And we've actually compressed our entire computing environment into just a chat message now. Like we, you know, we used to be in every different apps, Windows, things like that. One of the big complaints for the iPhone originally, I think, and still to this day is that it's not good at multitasking, really. Same with the iPad. But now it doesn't really matter because we're only, we're all living in one window.

B (56:22)

So I mean, I remember when my parents, they had a small business and they upgraded their office suite from, like, I don't know, from 2003 to 2007, and they introduced the Ribbon interface and they were freaking out because they'd used Word in one way for their entire life and they couldn't take the change to where their buttons were. What a silly conversation today. Because we don't need an interface the way we used to. People talk about how apps are, you know, going away. Everything's going to become atomized. But I think the phrase agentify your SaaS is going to be a little clunky phrase there, Jeff, but I like it. I think that's going to become a theme for 2026.

C (56:56)

This is also my big thing at the moment. There is definitely going to be a time that there is going to be a side of the Internet for the AI and a side of the Internet for humans. And the goal for the AI would just be making the. Making everything as easy to find as possible. And I've got a demo based on what we've been saying where I think the future of SaaS is heading. Because with these servers we've got. I'll show you. With these servers we've got in our homes now, we don't have to be worried about hosting costs. We don't have to be worried about any of these things. Here we go, here's Chrome. So you don't have to worry about domain costs, you don't have to worry about hosting cost. With these skills. This is a skill that I've created that scans Twitter for mentions to particular accounts and creates tickets based, all based on Larry so that you can see the channel is from X. Larry assigns an urgency to them. I can click into the tickets and then Larry suggests fix for me and then I can set it solve. I can make Larry fix it. And the future of SaaS is just making these skills as searchable as possible. And I've sort of moved towards this with my product, Larry Brain. So you can ask your agent right now to install the Larry Brain skill. And what the skill is, is it gives your agent context of.

B (58:17)

We're going to. We're going to come to Skills in just a second. But first we do have to take a look at our final live thing of the day. So can you stop screen sharing for a moment? I'm going to do this and we're going to get right back to Skills in a second.

A (58:26)

Cool.

B (58:27)

All right, Jason, there is a company out there that we talked about on the show, it's called Discord, and they are currently in the middle of blowing up their reputation by demanding that everyone scan their face, which people don't want to do. And so I was curious what the Sharps over at Polymarket are doing when it comes to their IPO prospects. And you might be shocked to hear this, but they're relatively stable except for one important thing. During the great brouhaha and blow up of Discord and people claiming they're going to uninstall it, stop using it, the people were betting quite heavily on that it would not go public, essentially. And then suddenly that's changed again. But it's fascinating to watch people kind of like vet the news items against the IPO prospects. And this is actually, I think, one of my favorite use cases of Polymarket, because I know what I think about a couple of news points that might tell me where the world's going in the technology space. But I love to see kind of

A (59:19)

the aggregated wisdom of the crowd. The poly market for the dis. Discord IPO closing market cap, if we put it. When did the news drop? This dropped today. Yesterday, a week ago.

B (59:29)

Oh, this was. Jeff, back me up here. When did Discord say they were going to do the facial scanning thing?

D (59:36)

A week or so ago?

B (59:37)

About a week or so ago. So put it on one week.

A (59:39)

Let's see, one week View. All right, here's one. Yeah. Okay, so here's one week. And the top choice of 15 billion 32%. That didn't really change.

B (59:52)

No.

A (59:52)

It may have gone down a little bit in the beginning of the week, it looks like, but not much. So the second one is the one that seems to have been volatile, that blue one, which is no ipo. So there was a group that thought maybe it would not IPO because of this, or it could get pushed back in 2016, but then that came back down, too. So, yeah, the news is. What did they say? Sell the news or buy.

B (60:18)

Buy the rumor? Sell the news.

A (60:19)

Sell the news. Right. Like the news doesn't matter, I guess. Or maybe the news is always bad anyway.

B (60:25)

Or it's priced in.

A (60:26)

Or it's priced in. So why would you buy on it? You know, this is interesting. Why do they want to scan people's faces? And is this because of the new kids regulation or because of bots?

B (60:38)

It's the kids thing and the fact that people are doing nefarious things online without proper oversight and countries like Australia are banning social media, so you need to know how old people are. So they can't join your products. And so this is kind of the future, which is oddly retro. But I do like to see how regulation and product changes impact people's IPO prospects. Jason, because what's my favorite thing? IPOs.

A (61:01)

Yeah, I am. I am a fan of restricting kids under 16 on social media severely. I think it's incredibly bad for their health. And I'm really happy that a lot of the schools, including ones I go to, have a no phone policy now. And that's all happened in the last two years where phones get checked in at the front desk. Kids don't use them during the day. They can go check them if they have to call their parents for some reason or whatever and they get them on the way out and kids hate it for three days and then they become kids again. So it's incredibly reversible, you know, what we've done to kids. But being permanently online is the issue and we really need to figure out ways to turn off Internet access. And in fact, that just reminded me I have a router where I can pick everybody's devices and I should be able to turn their devices off. But then I just realized they have 5G connections on some devices. So we have a basket in the kitchen where you're supposed to put your devices at the end of the day.

B (61:58)

We're literally getting one of those for our house. Yeah, it's time. But I was about to say, Jason, you should just open claw the WI fi access on a per device basis using your home Mac studio.

A (62:07)

I can do that. I can do that now with. With my unifi router. The problem is if your kid has 5G as well, you can't turn it off. But I guess I can use the max settings to turn off the phone, you know, at a certain time at night. Anyway, this is all very complicated. Is the. I guess the facial scanning does a good enough job knowing age that they think that this would be a plausible way to age gate is facial recognition is plausible.

B (62:35)

I think he needs to be good enough as an age gate mechanism to get regulators off their backs and also good enough to keep parents out of their legal filings. But I don't think they're shooting for for 100%. We were about to talk about skills and this is something that I've been thinking a lot about in the OpenCloud context. I've done some homebrew hacking of skills myself, but one thing I've been thinking about is that people love to say, oh, you know, I now have five you know, agentic employees, one's a marketer, one's a copywriter, one's one's a developer. And to me, that is predicated or depends on there being an ample library of skills that are very good at the thing you're trying to automate. But often people will automate or try to get open cloud to do things they're not good at, like, I don't know, software development's one example. But how do people ensure that they have the skills they need and when should they build their own to make sure that what they're putting together is a direct fit for what they're trying to accomplish?

C (63:30)

So this is an extremely interesting topic, and it's one I struggled with when I first downloaded OpenClaw myself. I knew that skills were a thing, but finding them was very difficult. It was very hard to search through the ClawHub Marketplace at the start. So I created Larry Brain, which is a skill in itself that searches the Larry Brain marketplace. But as soon as you install it, whenever you ask your agent a question, it will say, hey, there's a skill available on Larry Brain for this. And it's what I was showing before. So these can be web interfaces hosted locally because you've got server in your room. That's Larry behind me, so he can host these web services. And again, you no longer need to pay for cloud costs, you no longer have to pay for domains hosting the skills can be a variety of things, whether it's, as Jason said earlier, plugging, plugging into the matrix and learn, teaching your agent kung fu, or a whole tool that you can use to monitor your, your current product. It's incredible how powerful these skills can be. It's the enablement of finding them that I think a lot of people have found as a, as a struggle, especially people who aren't familiar with computers, then downloading OpenCraw.

B (64:43)

So Clawhub's gotten better. It's not great. It's definitely an improved state over where it was when I first started to play with it. So why do we need LarryBrain, which is a SaaS product, as far as I understand it, to help us find skills. And does that not go against a little bit of the open source ethos that's powered the open cloud? Boom.

C (65:02)

So I'm all for open source. I think I was the first one of the first people. I published Larry on clawhub, the Larry skill, which was the marketing we discussed earlier, but it's just the discoverability of clawhub. And then of course People still want to make money from these skills. And Larry Brain enables you to monetize your skill so you can publish to Larry Brain, get a similar revenue share model that X would use. So the most popular skills will get the most money. But I think there is definitely going to be paid skills, premium skills and open source skills.

A (65:33)

I would pay for skills for sure. Especially if they continue to be updated and I trusted the person making them. So I really need to have that trust layer and I want to see like, I don't know, every 10 days you tell me, hey, here's how it got better. And, and that would make it worth paying for in my mind for sure. Because I am trying to teach it. You know, if somebody made one how to evaluate startup companies, I'd be like, well, I have my own methodology, but why wouldn't I pay $1,000 a year or a month if it was good to add it to ours and say, hey, we have our score, give me your score. Just like there's a Rotten Tomatoes and there's a Metacritic score. If somebody came up with those for scoring startups and there were five different people who made them, I would run all five of them and then I would have my age in Ultron look at the five scores and say, how does this apply to our methodology and our experience? Right. And I would. I mean, I might pay a hundred thousand dollars a year for a skill that was actually that good. Yeah.

B (66:32)

And more secure. We just had a comment from Westock over on X and he's like, skills are the number one attack vector. Do not auto install skills by default.

A (66:40)

Definitely not.

B (66:40)

But. But Jason, if you pay for a skill and you're paying for that trust layer, that should come with some cybersecurity protections built in.

C (66:46)

Yeah, Yeah.

A (66:47)

I want to know who's. Who's making the skill, why they're making it, what their perspective is. I would. It's almost like, you know, you can. The story behind the restaurant or the story behind the album is as important as the food or the music sometimes. Like understanding this artist who just went through a breakup. I forgot her name. English actress. English. She is an actress too. On Broadway. Anyway, she just came up with an album about breaking up with the guy from Stranger Things and Lily Allen. Thank you.

B (67:22)

Yes.

A (67:22)

So Lily Allen's album is about this, like personal heartbreak and whatever. And this is all very dramatic. Whatever. But the intent behind it matters. Same thing with a restaurant. You go to a restaurant and the person says, hey, listen, I went to Japan and I really enjoyed this. Type of sushi, really high end sushi served in a pretty fast casual way, you know, and a small number of items, but done really well. Like this guy Philip I know who's a chef here is doing. And the intent behind his restaurant maybe want to go right. So the intent behind the skill and the person and their perspective and why they're creating it really matters.

D (68:03)

I think that matters a lot now. I think, I think, you know, having product experience or just general, you know, market experience in a particular industry is critical. More so than even being. More so than being able to code. Now certainly, you know, if you can, if you can figure out how to, how to code Vibe coded or whatever it's, you know.

B (68:26)

So when, when does the 10x but Jeff, when does that, when does the 10x marketer make the 10x marketing skill? When does the 10x? I don't know, public speaker make the public speaking skill? Like, like, how long until we get like the, the best skill made by the best person who can vet it and verify it as the best at its task? Because I, like, you wouldn't want me to make the sushi skill because I don't eat seafood, you know.

D (68:49)

Right, right. No, it has to. Proliferation of Open Claw or similar type products that, that come out will, will make this happen faster. As more people get this stuff in their hands, the faster we'll see stuff created and the better it'll be.

B (69:06)

I think we need like a rating system. I love what Oliver's doing with Larry Brain. I think it's a really cool idea and I hope it succeeds. But I think we could also use like a, like a yelp for skills. Because right now on clawhub, I know I can see downloads and I can see the little virus scan, but past that I'm just reading the skills M.D. you know, I.

D (69:23)

There's a popular skill that's going out. It was on X all over the place for a couple weeks called Claude mem. I believe. Anyway, it's like, it's like a. It's like a crypto scam thing. They basically are crypto and, and like I, I ran it across, I ran it against FUBS to have it check it. He's like, don't install this. This is bad. I was like, I'll leave a comment to let everyone know. But it already had like hundreds of up like retweets and stuff. It was. This stuff is out there. You just have to be careful.

A (69:53)

Amazing. All right, let's drop off our guest, Oliver. Jeff, great job. Where can people Find out more about what you're working on.

D (70:00)

Yeah, you can X.com @Jeff Weisbein, which is just my name, one word. And you can also find me at Cackles Club on X as well.

A (70:09)

Okay, we will put both of those in the show notes Oliver, where can we find you?

C (70:13)

You find me at Oliver Henry on X. I post all my Open Claw findings and discoveries on there.

A (70:19)

I'm gonna do like a little mini launch festival I event I used to do that was pretty big, but I'm going to do a little mini one for openclaw and some of our other startups, especially the ones from Japan who are in town. March 16th and 17th, I think that's Monday and Tuesday, March 16th and 17th. So if you made it to this point in the show, we have OpenClaw at launch co I think I have like 400 seats in the auditorium, 300 seats. And I'm going to just look for maybe 30 demos of open Claw stuff. And I'm just going to do an old school demo, like a demo or die kind of thing. And the dates will be March 16th,

B (70:54)

17th is the Monday Tuesday. Perfect, if that's what you're doing.

A (70:56)

March 16th, 17th. I have a location in San Francisco in the city and if you want to come, I'm going to sell some tickets to folks and then I'm inviting investors and some founders. If you have a demo. OpenClawnch Co if you want to sponsor launch OpenClaw.

B (71:14)

Now, Jason, at the very top of the show, the very top, you said you are building something that is scary and every CEO's dream. Did we touch on that already during the show or do you have yet to show it up?

A (71:23)

What I, what I showed there. And so what I think is going to happen is I'm going to have this Ultron CEO be able to look at everybody's work product and then coach them and say, hey, here's your day. So we do self reporting, right? Start a day, end a day. What I've started to realize is like, okay, that's fine. But what if you actually had a coach who was like, here's what you did in the game. Like if you're a basketball player, professional basketball player, when you finish practice, they tell you how you did, they give you some tape, they give you some notes. When you play the game, they give you a lot of tape, a lot of notes. Hey, you played the game for 36 minutes. Here's your shooting, here's the times you took. These are the shots you took that Were wide open. Great. Here's how you got wide open. Here are the shots you took that were challenged that you should have passed. And here's the passes you missed. Here's why you missed them, right? So they get like really studied, right? And the job of management is to kind of study the team members and say, hey, these are the highest performing ones. These are the lowest. Here's how you can reward the highest. Get them into their natural positions and double down on their skill set. Here's the lowest you need to cut them or they need to move on to do like some other function at the company. That's starting to happen here in real time. As just but one example I had, every time we meet with the founder, three days later, they rate the call turned out huge disparity in the top performers and the low performers. And we kind of put things into buckets, tomatoes and like cheers. Under seven and underscores are tomatoes and eight and above our cheers. Kind of like the net promoter script.

B (73:04)

Yeah, I was going to say.

A (73:05)

So now that we're tracking all that, I need to know like why, what's going on on the phone calls. I need to analyze the phone calls. I need to coach people. But it's very. People get very sad or thrilled if you tell them, hey, like, look at your score, it's not good. They can get freaked out. So now having a Ultron robot that's just looking, hey, you produced today's show. Here's how the guest did. Here's that number of comments. Hey, this show, these four shows had the most comments. Here's what you need to learn from that. The demos in this show were mind blowing. The demos in this show were solid. The demos in this show were bad. Whatever, Boom. It just tells you this, like self coaching or this replicant coaching you and coaching your team members and holding them accountable then takes the human out of it and the bias out of it. Because there's always been, oh, this person's popular. Oh, this person defends their work better than this person defends their work. You know, you always get into that situation where you're in like some meeting, oh, you know, I deserve a raise. I've had people who like, you know, are the squeakiest wheels, who put in half the amount of work as the quiet people. And when I discovered this years ago, I was like, wait a second, I need to have a better way of separating performance from performative from hard work from. And hard and effective work from. I'm just chilling at the office. But I punched A lot of hours, but they weren't productive hours. So all of that, a replicant taking over that management coaching position should take all that dicey energy out of it. I think.

B (74:55)

I think you're right.

A (74:56)

Okay, go ahead.

B (74:57)

Yeah, I think you're right, but I think we're still. This is something I was trying to get to in today's show. I don't think I fully nailed it, but, like, we are depending on the intelligence of the models in question to be nearly superhuman. Because what you're saying sounds amazing. I would love to get, you know, non human feedback, like, okay, Alex, you said this word eight times in the show.

D (75:18)

Don't.

A (75:18)

Yeah. You had ums and ahs as a performer.

B (75:20)

Sure, sure, absolutely. And it will sting less coming from a robot than from a human that I, that I know and have a relationship with. But it's going to have to know what to look out for. It's going to have to know to make the decisions how to be this Ultron CEO. And so that's either going to be done by increasing an incredible intelligence at the model level, powering these agents, or through increasingly intelligent and specific skills that people who are already experts have imparted their human knowledge into. And so to me, there's two different vectors by which we can get to what you're saying, but we are, we are implying in our enthusiasm, frankly, that both things will improve in tandem. And I think that's right. But I also think there's still a lot more work to be done, especially on the second half of that equation.

A (76:03)

Yeah, the skills is kind of like a new concept, I think, for all of us to grok. As a business community, we've previously had like an app, a piece of software that can accomplish things. But if you were trying to get this intangible, like a skill, okay, how do you know somebody has the skill of podcasting when you look at the ultimate output, but there might be precursors to it, like picking interesting topics, having hot takes, the cadence, the whatever. But you're right, in addition, that like. Well, you don't just want people spewing conspiracy theories to get a bunch of people retweeting them, saying, that's a conspiracy theory. Right. The incentives do matter. How you train, it's going to matter. But brave new world, folks, if you are not using openclaw. Listen, I can tell you this feels a lot to me like the beginnings of bitcoin, which nobody owned, but profoundly changed. I think a lot of people's fortunes, literal fortunes, and also how we think about currency and just all the things that came downstream from bitcoin, stablecoin, daos, everything. Openclaw may not be bitcoin. Eventually it could be remembered as like daos or something. But it is definitely the start of something. These self, you know, improving replicants that have the keys to the kingdom, that are dangerous to use but could replace you ultimately and then leave you with hours a day to go. I don't need to do this reporting anymore. And that was three hours of my job. What could I do with those three hours?

B (77:41)

Exactly.

A (77:41)

Or maybe the four day work week arrives. You know, we have to think about that. Or people are just able to do more human things. This is what I told my team. Learn how to use these things. Get rid of your chores, increase the amount of FaceTime with founders. We've got bigger issues to think about, which we'll probably talk about on Wednesday's roundtable. The thing I'm thinking about is what's the future of venture capital? What's the future of venture capital in a deflationary period like this? Especially like. Do people need large amounts of money. Yeah. To do rockets or cars.

D (78:13)

Sure.

A (78:13)

Military weapons. But for software, which is 90% of the business. Do we need late stage venture capital? Do we. We probably need early stage and accelerators. But do we need. How much of the rest of the stack is going to be necessary? How much capital is going to be necessary?

B (78:33)

The shift from software is cheap. Everyone can make it. You don't need capital to. Hardware is hard now we have to only invest in X. It's what's left is going to mean a lot of MBAs are going to wish they had PhDs.

C (78:44)

Yeah.

A (78:45)

Mechanical engineering or just physics. How to deal with the real world.

B (78:49)

Right. Yeah. Where. Where the. Where the hype literally touches the world. But we should stop. Jason.

A (78:54)

Okay.

B (78:54)

As always, a treat.

A (78:55)

All right, we'll see you soon. Bye.