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This Week in Startups
The $10M+ Bet on a Beanie That Reads Your Brain | Sabi & the Future of BCI | E2282
00:55:43
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- [00:00]
Jason Calacanis
You're staking your entire reputations on a cap that allows me to dictate my words. It does not work. There's no way to put a beanie on and then have it do transcription. Come on.
- [00:11]
Rahul Chabra
It is real. You would not believe the amount of engineering and effort that has gone into it to make it work. But it does work.
- [00:17]
Jason Calacanis
This doesn't work. I'm calling cap.
- [00:19]
Rahul Chabra
How can satellites understand what is a terrain on the earth even through going through atmosphere? Exactly. What we're trying to do is building a GPS for the brain.
- [00:26]
Jason Calacanis
You got metaphors, you got a killer idea. Congratulations, Rahul. But this is this Week in Startups. Do you have a demo?
- [00:36]
Lon Seidman
This Week in Startups is brought to you by Render. Find out why 5 million developers are already using the all in one cloud platform render. Go to render.com twist and apply for the Render Startup Program to get 500 to $100,000 in free credits depending on your stage and backers. Northwest registered Agent. Get more when you start your business with northwest in 10 clicks and 10 minutes, you can form your company and walk away with a re business identity. Learn more@northwestregisteredagent.com Twist and LinkedIn jobs hire right the first time. Post your first job and get $100 off towards your job post@LinkedIn.com Twist all
- [01:20]
Jason Calacanis
right everybody, welcome back to Twist. That's right. It's Monday, April 27th. We are here in Austin, Texas, the great state of Texas. And we've got a full docket here. Things are growing so vibrantly. Whether it's this week in startups, our new show this week in AI Founder University now on three continents in Japan, Saudi and the Middle east and in the US we have so much community opportunity in a startup. And this is my tactical practical tip of the day one because we need to get these tactical practicals in here for people. Yeah, tactical and practical. One person, one job. One person is the CEO of X. So there was a friend of mine, Matt Coffin, and his training philosophy. When he did lower my bills in Santa Monica, he sold it for hundreds of millions of dollars. He did great. I don't know if he ever took a job again after that. I don't think he did. No, never full time. But he angel invested in a store
- [02:14]
Lon Seidman
in like upstate New York.
- [02:15]
Jason Calacanis
That was his incredibly talented wife who opened up the store. She's an incredible designer. Putting it all aside, my guy Matt Cawthon said, I make everybody the CEO of their domain. It's always stuck with me. And getting people to think like a CEO, think like a founder, think like a founder is what you've got to try. You inspire everybody to do so. I try to inspire Lon as my Ed Editorials oriented. Think like the founder of all editorial. What systems do you want to put in place? What goals do you want to put in place? It's not easy to do because not everybody's a lunatic founder. But you can have acts of entrepreneurship in any job, any position. If you want to impress your boss, take whatever little narrow slice of the company and just act like the CEO of that. Just act like it's your domain, your responsibility, and you're just going to crush it. Now, community, it always falls to the wayside. It's always number two or three on somebody's list, right? That's my failing as a founder, to not say, you know what, if this is important for me, I should put somebody in charge of it. So I said, you know what? The sales department's pretty important here. These things are growing. I got Ricky in to be the director of sales. Boom. I said, you know, editorial is growing a lot here. I got too many pokers in the fire, speaking gigs, podcast, all in this week in startups. I brought Lon in. Lon, you're responsible. Anything that's editorial, Lon has to approve. And people still try to do end runs around Lon.
- [03:36]
Lon Seidman
They do.
- [03:37]
Jason Calacanis
Nope. If it's editorial, Lon must approve.
- [03:40]
Lon Seidman
Sometimes they try.
- [03:41]
Jason Calacanis
Founder University. Bianca Lucas is in charge. Launch accelerator. Bianca's in charge. The syndicate. Maddie's in charge. One after the other. You'll see me just deputize somebody back office. Kabir is in charge. They are the CEO of that. They are responsible. If you want something to grow and be sustainable, you can't make it number two or three on somebody's list. It'll never be prioritized. So I am announcing that community is going to be our big thing. Why? It would be more interesting for me to be able to meet more fans on the regular. And I did all these different activities, Founder Fridays, meetups, live shows. But nobody owns it. If nobody owns it, it's never going to excel. If nobody owns it, it's never going to excel. So ownership means it'll excel. And that's what we're going to do. Here's an example. Natila, is it Nikila.
- [04:30]
Lon Seidman
Oh, Nikita. Nikita.
- [04:31]
Jason Calacanis
Beer. Nikita. Yeah. La Femme Nikita. I got to remember Labor Nikita. Labor uses the boar as his thing. He's awesome. He's on a heater. We should do like Labor Nikita. Corner, like every couple shows. Because I love how he manages that community. He came out with X Chat and he hates Twitter groups. He wants it to be the chat metaphor as opposed to this weird hybrid that they made. So here is Noti Gang. We created a Noti Gang and I just started inviting people. I publicized the Twitter handle, I publicized the group chat link, and people flooded in. And then I did it for this week in AI and AI founder. So here is his inbox. If he goes to the Noti Gang on the left. Yep, here it is. These are Noti Gang members. And if you click on the management of it, like if you click on the actual title of it, this is really interesting. I think this is going to be a big deal. You'll see the group invite link and a number there. Fourth click down. There it is. Group invite link. Nope, not that. Right above it. Group invite link. There you go. And if you click that, what you'll see is you can share that group link and you can approve people. Now when you see approve, you see all the blue check marks. That's great. When I see it, you know what I see? I see also an orange one for my subscribers. So I added all my subscribers and blue check marks first. And you can just see there's tons of people waiting to get in. So every couple of days I add 10 people. I don't know how many we're up to, but it's becoming quite a nice little chat stream. This is what we're trying to do is just get consistent with the audience. We also created one for this week in AI, AI founders, and one for tag. So we're just creating these groups. And then I did a nice. I was driving to a ranch and I just did a spaces and I. You can send the spaces to the group. So then the group fills up with the people in the community. And this is the community flywheel that every startup has. Whether it's just 10 people who use your product or service, 100 people who read your blog, a thousand people who read your substack, whatever it is. If you can activate the top 1% and get a thousand people who really, really vibe with you, it can be a game changer for your startup. So just I want everybody in the audience who's a founder start thinking about these two principles. One, if you don't put a project as number one, it's never going to break out. Okay? You got to make somebody the CEO of Blank in your startup. Number two, if you can activate your top 1% of your audience, it is going to be a superpower in terms of when you have a question for your audience. You want to release a new product or service, you need engagement on a tweet. You think you've made a mistake and you want somebody to give you some advice. Just try to activate the top 1% of your followers as opposed to growing the big number. You want to grow the people who are deeply into your brand.
- [07:16]
Lon Seidman
This is. It's the streamer trick is what you're talking about. Like, this is all the big streamers they keep telling you, like, hey, if you want to hang out with me all the time, join this telegram group. And then that's where they do their, like, heavy promotion, and that's where they're the most active. And because those are the people that are going to click on everything Clavicular shares and check out buy the merch. So that's the funnel that the influencers are running. Yeah.
- [07:39]
Jason Calacanis
And some of it's dark. We were seeing with these guys like Clavicular who had like the incel nerd guy who was giving him thousands of dollars and he had him on a live stream and he's like, oh, my God, this person. Like, why am I taking $5,000 from this person? Is terrible.
- [07:54]
Lon Seidman
Yeah. It was clearly like a person who, you know, like, not, not, not getting out a lot. Sort of, you know, like, not, not, not. The person Clavicular wanted to be promoting is like his hardcore fan also.
- [08:06]
Jason Calacanis
He might feel like he's taking advantage of somebody.
- [08:08]
Lon Seidman
Sure.
- [08:09]
Jason Calacanis
Let's leave it at that. So don't take advantage of your fans. Do the opposite. Give them access. Right.
- [08:13]
Lon Seidman
And a lot of creators are doing perfectly fine above board. I didn't mean to use Clavicular to sort of crap on the entire creator economy.
- [08:21]
Jason Calacanis
There is something, though, about the whales in the system and just being careful that you are not abusing the fact that you might have a super fan or something. I have people all the time who are like, I'll give you $5,000 to go to lunch with me or whatever. And I did it once or twice for charity. I did it for Eric Reese's char at some point or whatever. I did like two lunches. And then I just. I just. These people can afford it, but now there's a reciprocity thing. They feel like they gave me the $5,000. It was for charity, so I don't even do that stuff.
- [08:48]
Lon Seidman
Yeah. I think you have to be aware of the parasocial element of everything that we do. When you're Online, like, people watch you all the time and they do start to feel like they know you. And I'm not saying it's bad. Like, I don't think that's inherently a bad thing. But you do have to be careful. There's a weird.
- [09:03]
Jason Calacanis
It's a nuanced thing. Right, let's get to the word nuance. It's nuanced. And yes, the parasocial elements that we now live in, from social media, you know, to streamers, it's all different. Yeah, some of it's good, some of it's bad, some of it's neutral. Just you gotta be cognizant of it. Especially if you're. Yeah. Somebody who's an influencer. We have some news stories. We got some guests. Where are we gonna go first?
- [09:28]
Lon Seidman
I think we should bring on our guests. Cause it's a.
- [09:30]
Jason Calacanis
It's a cool.
- [09:31]
Lon Seidman
It's a cool product we spotted online. And the moment Jacob and I saw this going through our feed, we were like, we gotta get these guys in. We're bringing in Rahul Chabra and Atma Deep Banerjee. They're the CEO and CTO of Sabi. This is the Beanie Jason. That's got 100,000 sensors in it and it reads your thoughts and translates them into text without needing to get invasive brain surgery.
- [09:55]
Jason Calacanis
Come on.
- [09:56]
Lon Seidman
It's a non invasive BCI cap, essentially brain.
- [10:00]
Jason Calacanis
Bci Brain computer interface.
- [10:02]
Lon Seidman
Correct.
- [10:03]
Jason Calacanis
Adding a new member to your team is a crucial decision and you don't want to rush into a hiring situation that you will regret. But if you're a busy founder, you also don't want to spend a ton of time in the trenches looking for that perfect candidate. Instead, you need a partner and you need a trusted partner. And LinkedIn Hiring Pro is that partner. How do I know this? Because I use LinkedIn Hiring Pro. You want a real world testimony. All right, here you go. We recently hired a new customer success manager. They handle all the advertising accounts here on this Week in startups and they ensure that we're keeping all of our wonderful partners happy. LinkedIn helped us connect with an amazing candidate right here in Austin. And he had exactly the combination of experience we were looking for. It's magic, it's alchemy, it's everything for me to find a great team member. So hire right the first time. Get started by posting your job for free@LinkedIn.com twist. Terms and conditions apply. That's LinkedIn.com twist. There's no way this works. You guys are punking me. As Raul is this guest, the fake startup, it does not work. There's no way to put a beanie on and then have it do transcription. Come on.
- [11:11]
Rahul Chabra
It is real. You would not believe the amount of engineering and product effort that has gone into it to make it work, but it does work.
- [11:19]
Jason Calacanis
Not trying to be a hipster. This is a functional beanie you're wearing, correct?
- [11:23]
Rahul Chabra
This is not a functional beanie, but you would have something end of the year.
- [11:26]
Jason Calacanis
Oh, okay. That's actually a hipster beanie. Okay, so now that is a hipster
- [11:30]
Lon Seidman
beanie or a fiction beanie. But there is also a technical bee.
- [11:34]
Jason Calacanis
All right, so maybe show us what you built, how it works and when we can all buy and for how much.
- [11:39]
Rahul Chabra
Well, it turns out that for a long time people believe that the only way to do BCI or brain computing interfaces is to drill a hole inside the skull, put a chip inside the brain. But it turns out that very recently we had like a paper or an academic book that came out and it was actually authored by atmadeep in 2023 where they used FMRI signals and use deep learning models to basically be able to decode what a person is looking at using just deep learning models and non invasive signals. And I think the world before that and world after that are just fundamentally different. Where now you have this entire understanding that you have deep learning, you have great sensors, and now you can understand what a person is looking at, what a person is thinking. You can translate thoughts to text, thoughts to images, and we just figured out how to make it and pack it inside a beanie and a cap.
- [12:28]
Jason Calacanis
Okay, frmi, explain what that is one more time so we understand what you're talking about and how it works.
- [12:37]
Rahul Chabra
FMRI is a massive clinical.
- [12:39]
Jason Calacanis
Wait, say it again. Is it fmri? FM Michael R I F M R
- [12:45]
Rahul Chabra
I is a massive. It stands for functional magnetic resonance imaging. It's like the MRI scans that you get, but it's slightly different from the standard thing that you would normally get. That is a structural mri.
- [12:59]
Jason Calacanis
This is functional. So it measures mostly the blood flow
- [13:03]
Rahul Chabra
changes across different sections of your brain.
- [13:06]
Jason Calacanis
If I get an mri, that's magnetic resonance imaging. Am I correct? Yeah, yeah, yeah. This is fmri. And the difference is this is doing blood flow. It's checking the blood flow around my brain. Correct.
- [13:23]
Rahul Chabra
MRI was the initial work we did in 2023. That is a massive machine in a hospital. But nobody wants to go in a clinic to get the brain read for like five minutes. What they want is basically a cap that they can wear in house. So we shifted from fmri, which was a massive machine, to biopotential sensors that could essentially fit in the cap. So now what we're doing is it measures electrical activity inside your brain, even from outside, and has many, many sensors and a brain foundation model that work together to be able to decode what you're thinking. So there's a massive change in the technology, and we had to do tremendous amount of engineering to get here, but now we're able to get it into a cap.
- [14:04]
Jason Calacanis
Okay, so you're going to be able to wear a cap, and then an AI model is going to study your. The signals. Yeah, those signals. Then the model will be able to translate into something that's productive. And what you claim. What you're claiming here, Raoul, is that it's going to be able to say words in a sentence.
- [14:33]
Oliver
Yep.
- [14:34]
Rahul Chabra
Word by word.
- [14:35]
Jason Calacanis
Word by word. Now, as the user, do I have to think the quick brown fox, and I just slowly think each word and imagine a quick brown fox jumps over the lazy dog? Or can I just be rambling and talking like I would on a podcast? And you'll be.
- [14:56]
Rahul Chabra
For now, you need to do. For now, you need to do word by word, slowly. But I think we aspire to get to the point where you just think. And even before you put it into words, it's out on the screen.
- [15:06]
Jason Calacanis
This doesn't work. I'm calling cap. I'm calling cap on the beam. There are.
- [15:11]
Lon Seidman
This is interesting, Jason, because when I was doing research for this, a lot of people in this field are basically saying what you are. That the scalp, the skull, it's muffling these electrical signals too much and they can't get through. So I guess that's one of my questions, Raul.
- [15:25]
Jason Calacanis
Can you prove it to us right now? Get around this Cap or not?
- [15:28]
Rahul Chabra
I'll give you an example. How can satellites understand what is a terrain on the Earth even through going through atmosphere? Exactly. What we're trying to do is building a GPS for the brain. When you have 70,000 or 100,000 sensors and your skull has some variability, you can figure out where exactly the neural activity happened when you thought of Apple versus when you thought of Fox.
- [15:48]
Jason Calacanis
Do you. Okay, you got metaphors. You got a killer idea. Congratulations, Raoul, but this is this week in startups. Do you have a demo?
- [15:56]
Rahul Chabra
Do you have a demo? Not for this call, but we do have demos. We'll show you soon.
- [15:59]
Jason Calacanis
Okay, that's what I want to see from you guys. Well, you guys, where are you Guys based. And what's your background? I'm going to get a little. I'm going to vet this a little bit here. I'm doing a little on air, just a little tactical, practical. I want diligence. Raul, where. Where are you based? Where'd you go to school? What did you do before this?
- [16:15]
Rahul Chabra
We're in Palo Alto. We're based here. I went to school in Bit in India. Majored in math and electronics internal at Stanford. Before that I built autonomous drones and then worked at Stanford on early versions of LSTM that came before transformers and then eventually got to a point where my college thesis was essentially based on EMG signals analyzing fatigue levels for athletes. Athletes get injured if they keep on training too much. But you can figure out at the right time when their body says that you should stop training. And so you prevent injury, you make sure that they train the best, right? And in those moments we realized that biosignals, which are time series data, they work. And scaling laws with deep learning models work. And without getting inside the body, you can still figure out what's going on outside. And Atmadeep, who's with me, he also went in college with me. He was a deep learning lead at a satellite company.
- [17:11]
Jason Calacanis
So you guys are legit. You're staking your entire reputations on a cap that allows me to dictate my words. Okay, this is a big risk here because if you don't deliver Professor X level fidelity, I'm going to call you guys out in six months. I better see some serious fidelity here. But Lon, do you realize how extraordinary this would be? This is basically telekinesis. Like, you put your cap on. I have my cap on. You have an ear interface like we had those visual pods on on Friday. What was that called?
- [17:49]
Lon Seidman
ViewBuds. ViewBuds.
- [17:51]
Jason Calacanis
ViewBuds.
- [17:52]
Lon Seidman
Right.
- [17:52]
Jason Calacanis
ViewBuds. We had ViewBuds on. You put ViewBuds on, I start thinking, we connect overview. And then we have a text to speech in my voice with 11 labs now you're hearing in your ears. And I'm going like this.
- [18:05]
Lon Seidman
Yeah, we would have to do this because this is the Professor X move.
- [18:09]
Jason Calacanis
But yeah, and it would literally be like me being Professor X and you being Magneto. Let him go. You don't need to do this. Charles.
- [18:16]
Lon Seidman
You don't understand.
- [18:18]
Jason Calacanis
Yeah, you don't need to. What's Magneto's real name?
- [18:21]
Lon Seidman
Eric. Eric. Eric.
- [18:23]
Jason Calacanis
And Charles. Release him. Eric. You don't need to do this. Eric. He's not the enemy. There's a Better way.
- [18:28]
Lon Seidman
Eric Charles. They'll never let us live with them.
- [18:31]
Jason Calacanis
No, Eric, there's good in humans you can release. You and I playing Magneto and Professor X for Christmas, for the Halloween show would be hilarious.
- [18:43]
Lon Seidman
Here's what I was gonna say. It's. For now, it's only 30 words a minute, so, like, that's a real limitation. We'll have to get it for us what we're imagining. It would have to go at, like. Yeah, the speed of thought, which is very fast. Faster than I can type. And I can type like 100 guys.
- [19:00]
Jason Calacanis
Did you raise money for this lunacy yet?
- [19:02]
Rahul Chabra
We have, yes. Quite a lot of type.
- [19:04]
Jason Calacanis
Vinod.
- [19:05]
Lon Seidman
Your friend Vinod Khosla is.
- [19:06]
Jason Calacanis
No. Khosla backed his lunacy.
- [19:08]
Lon Seidman
Yeah, here's his question.
- [19:09]
Jason Calacanis
That's material information.
- [19:11]
Lon Seidman
Here's his quote. If you're going to have a billion people use BCI for access to their computers every day, it can't be invasive. So he's thinking about if we're all going to be think typing on our computers and our phones. You can't. It can't be surgery. It's going to have to be a solution like this, where you just put a beanie on.
- [19:29]
Jason Calacanis
All right, Raul, next time, when you get to the metaphor, say Jake Al. Respectfully, Vinod Khoslo put eight figures into the company. Do you respect Vinod and his track record? I'd be like, yeah, Vinod's pretty smart. I mean, I do think he took a little detour into, like, alternative fuels. What was the alternative fuel we were all going to use? Ethanol or something?
- [19:49]
Lon Seidman
Sure. Yeah.
- [19:50]
Jason Calacanis
Okay, so you've identified a real problem, and you put together a solid solution and a business model that you believe in. So you're all set to launch your new company, right? Not so fast. If you want investors and potential customers to take your new business seriously, you need to consider forming a Delaware C Corp. And that's where Northwest Registered Agent comes in. They're going to give your new company a real identity. That means an address for your public filings, a domain, a custom website, a business email, and of course, a phone number. And that's going to take just 10 minutes and 10 clicks. They don't charge hidden fees. Customer service is available around the clock. They're not overwhelming your inbox with spam, and they make it easy to cancel at any time. So get all the advantages of a Delaware C Corp. Independent, regardless of where in the US you're operating from. Visit northwest registered agent.com/twist for more details and the links are in the show notes. I think he was part of the like little detour over there with John Doar that we're going to have ethanol and corn everywhere and that was how we're going to drive our cars.
- [20:51]
Lon Seidman
Saloon. Saloon. Ethanol and biofuels. That, that was the goal.
- [20:56]
Jason Calacanis
Was that Vernode? Yeah, I mean, listen, he's a big swing guy. Advanced handicap it here on Twist. I don't know if this is his next ethanol or if this is his next Sun Microsystems. I think he is famous for Sun Microsystems. If I remember correctly, he said he
- [21:12]
Rahul Chabra
first invested in OpenAI.
- [21:13]
Jason Calacanis
That too. That too. I think he made a donation to the nonprofit. Yes.
- [21:16]
Lon Seidman
He is the co founder of Sun
- [21:18]
Jason Calacanis
Microsystems, first VC investor in OpenAI. Yes. I think these are just details was what he said to me on stage when I said, how does it go from being a nonprofit to a far prophet? He said, oh, Jason, these are just details. I was like, yes, I'm going to keep that answer in my pocket the next time I get pulled over. And they're like, son, do you have a weapon? And were you watching the Knicks game while you were on fsd? I'd be like, officer, those are just details. All right, listen, Raul, I wish you guys the best of luck. You need to come on this show the moment you have it. Able to do one word, and that one word is calacanis. You can say calacanis, not lawn or J. Okay, listen, if you could say.
- [22:06]
Lon Seidman
That's not a common one.
- [22:07]
Jason Calacanis
If you can say jcal, I'll give you two syllables. If it can say J cal, I'll buy the first one. All right, great job. Where can people learn more of this lunacy that you're doing here?
- [22:16]
Lon Seidman
This is.
- [22:16]
Rahul Chabra
It's called.
- [22:17]
Jason Calacanis
This is my type of crazy. What is it?
- [22:19]
Rahul Chabra
It's called sabi.com. you can reserve your device right now and through the end of the year we'll have something for you.
- [22:25]
Jason Calacanis
SABI S A B I dot com. Well, there it is. I'll give you another. I'll give you another professional tip here. If you get a four letter domain name, that's pretty credible too. So if this is. If you're making all this up, Raul, you have set up the best amount of credibility. You have a four letter domain, you got Fiduchosla and you got a Stanford PhD. This is either Theranos or it's SpaceX. I am here for it. Raul, I am hoping you get to Mars. I want you back on this program the second I can put a beanie on and tell Lon, you're fired. That's it.
- [23:02]
Lon Seidman
That's going to be your first beanie.
- [23:04]
Jason Calacanis
My first thought is going to be, oh, man.
- [23:06]
Lon Seidman
Coming for trim your beard.
- [23:08]
Jason Calacanis
That's. I'm going to be. Go to the barber. What's the barber? You go to over here.
- [23:12]
Lon Seidman
Brazos barbershop. Right across.
- [23:14]
Jason Calacanis
That's it. If it can make me go Brazos barber and take Lon from his homeless era into his tight is right era, I'm good. All right, guys. Great job.
- [23:22]
Lon Seidman
Thanks, guys.
- [23:23]
Jason Calacanis
Very entertaining.
- [23:24]
Rahul Chabra
Thanks.
- [23:24]
Jason Calacanis
Very entertaining. These are my guys. I am rooting for these guys. If they do this, you realize this changes the world.
- [23:31]
Lon Seidman
I mean, this is a world changing. As soon as we saw this go by on X, we were like, we got to book these guys. That is a revolutionary technology. If you figure out how to read my thought, there are. I will say we didn't get to talk about it. There are some pretty epic privacy, safety. Like a hat that reads my mind. Like, does it read. Do I have to think I want to share this with Sabi or is it just reading everything that I've got going on in there?
- [23:55]
Jason Calacanis
I mean, this is going to have to be on a local model on your phone, encrypted, because Lon's going to be like, here's. Here's Lon Sabi ready?
- [24:02]
Lon Seidman
Oh, no.
- [24:04]
Jason Calacanis
Gabagool.
- [24:05]
Lon Seidman
Yeah. It's like, oh, man. Oh, gelato. And where am I going to go for gelato next week?
- [24:11]
Jason Calacanis
Pistachio gelato.
- [24:13]
Lon Seidman
Yeah.
- [24:14]
Jason Calacanis
Here's Jake House. Here's Jake House. Fourth bulldog.
- [24:18]
Rahul Chabra
Yeah, fourth bulldog.
- [24:19]
Lon Seidman
I wonder how much powder is there this week.
- [24:23]
Jason Calacanis
Jpow Bulldogs. Brisket.
- [24:26]
Lon Seidman
Yeah.
- [24:27]
Jason Calacanis
Sig. Get a new sig. Get a Sig. P365.
- [24:31]
Lon Seidman
I want to be able to strongly differentiate. Here are the thoughts I want to share with Sabi. Here are the thoughts that are just for lan. And that's. That's.
- [24:38]
Jason Calacanis
I'll be honest. You know, they should do a collab with commercial, and that would be really great for them to make this for equanimity and meditation. I always tell people my big five. You can do an infographic here, make this into a short. These are my big five. If you're feeling unbalanced and be dead serious here, Number one, your sleep. Number two, nutrition. Number three, working out, exercise. So sleep, nutrition, exercise, Right. Those are obvious pillars of being healthy as a person. I'm going to give you two more meditation and socialization. Meditation. You just pop out the calm app. Shout out to calm and just meditate. 10 minutes, 5 minutes, 50 minutes, doesn't matter. Any amount of meditation will reground you. And then five, socialization. Invite three friends to dinner, open up a bottle of wine, whatever you're into, maybe 420, I don't know, judgments, long, whatever, blunt rotation. And just enjoy life a little bit. In socialization. Anytime you're feeling out of sorts, take J Cal's big five. Try to hit all five in one day. It's not as easy as you think.
- [25:45]
Lon Seidman
No, not really. If you get the nutrition is the hard one for me. Nutrition and working out, I can do the other three, but those two are hard.
- [25:52]
Jason Calacanis
Here's an easy one for nutrition. Order a goddamn salad and then just eat a chicken breast. I mean, is it going to kill you?
- [25:57]
Lon Seidman
It's not. It's not.
- [25:58]
Jason Calacanis
It's not going to kill you.
- [26:00]
Lon Seidman
I like. I like some veggies. I don't mean to make it salad
- [26:02]
Oliver
like it's that hard, but, you know,
- [26:04]
Lon Seidman
sometimes you want a burger, sometimes you want a burger.
- [26:06]
Jason Calacanis
I mean, I love a burger, but here's what I do. This is my very simple nutrition system. One for you, two for your health. So you want the burger. That's great. The next day, just eat like an egg white omelette or something nice and then have a salad for lunch. One for two, two for one, one for two. If you're three for three, that's a Gavon situation. Yeah, you just try to go from three. Three. Am I right? In Pulp Fiction, in Inglourious Basterds, is this the three or is this the three?
- [26:34]
Lon Seidman
This is the American three. This is the German three.
- [26:37]
Jason Calacanis
I'm going with the German. Okay. Because the Germans are fit. So just try to get, you know, 1, 2, 3 here. All right, what's next on the show?
- [26:45]
Lon Seidman
All right, so up next, we're gonna have Oliver join the show. As you know, Jason, as you may recall, we are offering a 5k bounty and a guest spot on this very podcast that you're watching right now for anyone who manages to build a live AI Sidebar. There are a bunch of rules. The main idea, we want four active AI Personas watching the show, making commentary, adding important tidbits. The idea would be like a. A panel of producers that we could consult throughout the livestream that would listen into everything we're talking about and make helpful suggestions. You are comparing it to Howard Stern's crew. He's got Robin Quivers there to read the news. He's got Fred Norris with the Sound effects and background. He's got Gary Delavate, the producer that has all the context. He's got Jackie checking Jackie Martling. And later, Artie Lang is the cut up who's throwing out one liners and being funny. And so we were looking for. How could you. Could we use AI to simulate this whole group without actually having all of these people in the studio? Now, a lot of people have submitted.
- [27:51]
Jason Calacanis
All right, Oliver, this obviously presents a number of technical tasks. We had about a dozen people participate, participate in this. So we've decided instead of just awarding a winner today, that we'll just put. Got more work on your plate. Everybody knows you do the demos for this week in AI go to this Week in AI. AI. Oliver is my protege. He's my protege. He's really great on air. He's making great demos. So in between the roundtable for this week in AI, which I host, he does great demos explaining all the basics and even some intricate stuff that you can do with AI. So the application is really hard. In this case, I can identify what's easy and what's hard about this. What's easy about this is creating Personas. Hey, you're a fact checker. Take this transcript, look for facts. I mean, we do that all the time with the newsletter project you're working on, fact checking is easy, but fact checking a live stream, usually our listeners will do that for us, you know, and they'll go to Claude or they'll go to ChatGPT or Grok. They'll ask a question, they'll cut and paste the answer back, or they'll just tell us, oh, yeah, you know, here's the. These are the, you know, 10 highest market cap company, market cap companies from the 90s, whatever. But this is happening in real time. So what we're asking people to do is to take a live stream, take a live transcript, and then figure out what's the facts in it, and then check the facts in real time or what are the discussions and then make a joke about the discussions. That. Is that the hard part here, Oliver?
- [29:28]
Oliver
Yeah, I mean, so on a basic level, it's a pretty simple task. And what our, you know, the nodi gang has built has been pretty simple. On a base level, what is it doing? Is it taking the speech to text and then it's sending, you know, 50 words to Gemini, for example, and it's saying. And it's including the prompt of the Persona that it made. So if it's a fact checker Persona, it's taking the 50 words saying, hey, is there any facts that you can quickly find that don't line up here or anything that Jason mentioned that we should correct him on? So on a simple level, that's pretty basic, I would say you just have to connect an API for the analysis. So on the one that I set up, I was using Gemini. And then you can connect 11 labs speech to text or. Or OpenAI's whisper speech to text or Deepgram. So there's a few different options.
- [30:25]
Lon Seidman
Armchair uses Deepgram.
- [30:26]
Jason Calacanis
Yeah, big cloud providers may offer you cheap compute, but you'll end up paying the difference in engineering costs and hiring extra developers. You don't want to waste time configuring virtual networks. None of us do. Or your access policies. You want your team building your product. So it's time to look at Render. Render is the all in one cloud platform for developers that allows you to to deploy, scale and secure your apps and agents with zero ops. Most cloud platforms ask you to split your focus between product and infrastructure, or they force you into platform constraints. You know you're going to aggro in six months, but just connect your GitHub repo to render and you are live web services, cron jobs the whole stack in one platform. It's time to find out why 5 million developers are already using render.5 million. Go to render.com twist and apply for the Render startup program. You'll get anywhere from $500 to $100,000 in free credits depending on your stage and who your backers are. That's render.com/twist. What is Deepgram? I've never heard of that.
- [31:32]
Lon Seidman
It's another option. Instead of 11 labs for a. Or Whisper for a. Yes. Speech to text, it makes transcripts, basically.
- [31:40]
Jason Calacanis
Got it.
- [31:40]
Oliver
It works well. And if you remember the clipper I made, which takes clips from the show, what that did is it transcribed the whole show with timestamps using Deepgram and then used a tool that my openclaw had that would cut it up based on those timestamps. So Deepgram's great, but the issue that we've ran into specifically for all three of the co hosts that we've tested is that it's taking. It has limited context, which means that specifically for mine, which is the pod commentators, it would. Every 100 words it would send to Gemini to get the breakdown. And what that does is it just has the hundred words. It doesn't have the full context of, you know, the whole topic we're talking about.
- [32:27]
Jason Calacanis
Got it.
- [32:28]
Oliver
And that leads to is.
- [32:29]
Jason Calacanis
Yeah, so here's what I think we might want to do just for the fairness of the contest. Go ahead, Lon, give your comment.
- [32:34]
Lon Seidman
I was just going to say I feel like there's really two levers so far that differentiate the quality of the products, at least the. The 12 to 13 I've been through so far. One is ease of use. Some of them, it's a URL, it's instantaneous, it starts working right away. Others, you gotta massage it, you gotta work with it, you gotta set stuff up yourself. That's. That's sort of one. And then two is the quality of the Personas. As you'll see, a lot of them, the Personas are all pretty similar. They're making kind of similar comments. And then some of them have done a really good job differentiating, where it's like, this is the troll, this is the fact check, and they're giving better quality. So, like, I feel like that's where a lot of the variability is coming.
- [33:16]
Jason Calacanis
All right, so listen, this is a contest, so it's, you know, and I just kind of threw it out there. It's my money. So ultimately, I'll decide with the council of you two guys and the rest of the team.
- [33:29]
Lon Seidman
Sure.
- [33:30]
Jason Calacanis
But I think, in fairness, what matters most, the high order bit is, is it doing great fact checking, is it doing great trolling, and is it doing great jokes? Those are three very different things. Right. Those are the three Personas that I think matter the most. The fact checker, who's just giving facts. The trolling, who's just roasting you, being cynical, being snarky. Okay, let's call it the cynic. Yeah, well, no, I think the roastmaster is even better.
- [34:00]
Lon Seidman
Well, I mean, a lot of them
- [34:01]
Jason Calacanis
have gone, maybe the cynic is better.
- [34:02]
Lon Seidman
The troll is what a lot of them are using because that's what we've sort of defined, described it as.
- [34:07]
Jason Calacanis
But what should. What would you say, Lon, then? Is it the cynic? What would have the most overall value for the show this week in startups? All in whatever. The cynic, the troll, or the roast
- [34:17]
Lon Seidman
master, I. I like cynic the best because I feel like that's. That's a clear role. Like a troll is just. It's at a negative connotation. They're just there to disrupt. A cynic is a helpful thing to have on a show like this because they're exactly like what you were doing for Sabi, like somebody to sit there and be like, really worked, challenging the frame.
- [34:34]
Jason Calacanis
All right, so let's keep it simple. I think the joke and the troll thing is very hard to do because. So let's take those off the table and let's narrow the contest down to the fact checker and the cynic.
- [34:49]
Lon Seidman
Okay.
- [34:50]
Jason Calacanis
Because those two, I think, would have. The most valuable. Would be most valuable to us.
- [34:54]
Rahul Chabra
Yes.
- [34:54]
Lon Seidman
We'll let everybody in the chat room know we're reshaping it in some, but
- [34:58]
Jason Calacanis
they're simpler because I think we've made the mission too big with four Personas.
- [35:02]
Lon Seidman
It's. It's. It's challenging and you know, like. Well, as you'll see if we show some of these off, some of them, the differentiation is not really there. It's just a lot of commentary. It's not very personality driven.
- [35:15]
Jason Calacanis
I just want to make it easier to judge the quality, Oliver. So I just think in judging the quality, ease of use of the product, so the fit and finish of the project and then the quality of the output, those two would be the weights we would use. Is there any weight I'm missing here, Oliver, in terms of picking a winner and being fair about it? And I could pick two winners and split it. You know, it's my money. I can do whatever I want here. This is a rolling bounty here.
- [35:39]
Oliver
No, I think those two things are great, but I also just want to give two specifics that Lon and I found that I think would really help a lot of the submissions, which are speed. How could you increase the speed? So if we're talking about a subject, how quickly is it going to give us the. The notes? So in our Slack channel, it's me listening live and like, quick typing as fast as I can. Like, oh, Jason, what about this? Jason, what about this? Also in the model, in the one that I tested, it would write something that was hard to read and I wasn't sure what it was talking about, if that makes sense. So, yeah, you got. It's got a. In one of the ones that Lon has is it actually has the transcript and then the commentary.
- [36:19]
Jason Calacanis
One of the submissions.
- [36:20]
Lon Seidman
Yeah, but our armchair. Our armchair did a really good job. Is it highlights the section of the transcript that the commentary is about. So you can sign immediately. Oh, the troll is picking on this thing Jason said. Oh, the fact check is about this thing Lon said. Right.
- [36:36]
Jason Calacanis
Okay. So this speaks to the fit and finish of the product. Yeah. Which is to say for this to be useful to the host of the show or the audience, because I think this serves two roles. One, I could run this privately and just see when I'M on Megyn Kelly. What facts she's getting right, what facts she's getting wrong. And I could be challenging her on a fact and say, like, okay, is that actually true? And then I could go look at it, which, by the way, everybody's doing right now. There was a famous Larry Summers episode of all in where he claimed, you know, I think he said, chamath's looking stuff up or whatever. That's kind of all fair and love and war. Now, in terms of, you know, a podcast, people are looking up stuff in real time. So let's go into our demos here. So we always like to demo or die. Who's going to lead the demos?
- [37:25]
Lon Seidman
I'm actually, I started sharing already. This is, this is Armchair, the one of the first ones that we set up. It is by. I'm looking up his name right here. Mark Colebruga set this up. I believe that's. And as you can see, this is what I really liked about it. It's highlighted this block of what we're talking about. You know, you're.
- [37:43]
Jason Calacanis
Be more specific here, so that the audience listening to sports guests, please.
- [37:47]
Lon Seidman
The quote here is, as you said, there was a famous Larry Summers episode of all in where he claimed that Chamath was looking stuff up. It's highlighted that. And then Gary, their producer with contest.
- [37:57]
Jason Calacanis
Oh, we're using this right now. Yep.
- [37:59]
Lon Seidman
This is live. I'm. I'm doing this live. Gary says in April 2025, all in had a tariff debate with Summers and Chamath Sachs using Grok chat GPT Live. Per Reddit buzz, they couldn't confirm whether Chamafu is actually looking stuff up. And then here, a little later, I mentioned Mark Kobrugge and Gary says, yes, he, he found it. Mark created Armchair. He found his, you know, he found his URL. He corrected me on the spelling. Wow. Yeah, so you can see it's actually, it's working live and.
- [38:30]
Jason Calacanis
Okay, wait, let me, let me try using this now. This is incredible. Holy. Holy cow. Let me do this right now. Let's do it based on a political topic. I'll do a political topic right now. Obviously, we know there was an incident at the White House correspondence dinner this weekend, and the buzz online was, which side of the aisle has the most extremist. Is it the right with the Oath Keepers and the Proud Boys and what happened on January 6 where there was violence at the Capitol? Or does the left have the violence problem with the recent New York Times podcast where they were talking about soft murder or something? And they were talking about micro looting and stealing from the Louvre. And then we've had the three assassination attempts, including this weekend on President Trump, all from left, mentally ill. I think you got to be mentally ill to do an assassination. So I'm curious of these instances. I mentioned a handful of them. But if you were to take political violence in the last 20 years, I'm curious, which side would have the most notable actual violent behavior in the market, the Democrats or the Republicans?
- [39:51]
Lon Seidman
All right, so as you can see,
- [39:52]
Jason Calacanis
I spoke slowly, by the way, Lon, and I gave the details as best I could, and that might be how you would hear me. Tee it up on all in. Right? Yeah.
- [39:59]
Lon Seidman
Not too different. So Gary confirmed the shooting. Shooting April 25, 2026, at the White House correspondence dinner at the Washington Hilton. Gunman breached, checkpoint fired shots, Trumpet officials evacuated unharmed. It even named suspect Cole. Thomas Allen was arrested.
- [40:14]
Jason Calacanis
And it gave. Gave citations.
- [40:15]
Lon Seidman
It gave you this, the Wikipedia citation for the event. Yeah. And then the troll said, your framing assumes January six defines right wing extremism. But you missed antifa riots, the 2000s antifa riots, 2 billion in insured damages, campuses, cancellations. The troll says your selective memory isn't data. And then the troll.
- [40:35]
Jason Calacanis
Hold on. Pause there for a second. Lon, I didn't bring up antifa. That wasn't on the top of my head because we haven't had an antifa situation in a little while. But during BLM riots on campuses, there was a lot of antifa violence, I think when Biden was in office, or maybe the first term. I can't remember all the things that were ascribed specifically to antifa. But antifa is a known violent agitator, so that's great. That helped me.
- [40:59]
Lon Seidman
Yeah. So, I mean, as we keep going, the troll and Gary, they seem to be more active. I think there are other Personas in here, but we're hearing a lot from the troll and Gary the producer. But, yeah, here's another one. It confirmed you were Talking about that April 22 New York Times podcast with Gia Tolentino, Hasan Piker, and Nadia Spiegelman. It mentioned microluding the Louvre theft, social murder, and three more links that you could click to check out.
- [41:26]
Jason Calacanis
This is so great. I mean, this. I'll tell you why this is great for me. I'm frequently saying during the show, hey, producers, get me this piece of information.
- [41:37]
Lon Seidman
You are.
- [41:38]
Jason Calacanis
Because I can't remember everything. No, but no one person can. And maybe Ben Shapiro, but he does monologue, so I suspect, you know, he's so good at debating. He's got such a narrow focus. Ben Shapiro is so good at, you know, doing these that he's written a really great script for himself. Like, he's a monologuer. So monologuers get to practice their monologue. Take four or five takes. I'm live. You don't get four or five takes. Right. So this would be very helpful for people who are alive just to remember, I don't know who the other co hosts were on that New York Times podcast. This would have filled me in here.
- [42:11]
Lon Seidman
Correct.
- [42:11]
Jason Calacanis
This is very impressive, by the way.
- [42:13]
Lon Seidman
I think. I mean, for me personally, we were originally thinking we were gonna pick a winner. So far, Armchair is my pick for the winner. It's the best job of the actually adding helpful context in the Personas that we defined.
- [42:28]
Jason Calacanis
I want this, by the way, as a Zoom plugin or ODBC on my desktop.
- [42:33]
Oliver
Yeah.
- [42:34]
Jason Calacanis
So, Oliver, is that possible for me to set this up and just have it running when I'm on a Zoom call with a founder or I'm on, you know, a podcast, whatever. I'm on somebody else's podcast. Can I have this just running and using the Zoom stream? How does it grab the stream? It's just on a technical basis, I
- [42:52]
Oliver
can share my screen here. And this is actually how the. A project that I looked at is built. So this is a different one. Of course. This is not Armchair. It's called Pod Commentators. I also think it's called Cast side. Multiple names here. But you can see I am looking at the Zoom through my Chrome browser window, and I'm streaming into Pod Commentators. So I can see what I would see in my Zoom window. And also it's popping up on. And I'm also getting takes from Rex, the cynical commentator, popping up on the kind of side of the screen. So I can see.
- [43:29]
Jason Calacanis
Is that through Zoom or is that a plugin? How is that? Oh, it's a browser window. So it's.
- [43:35]
Lon Seidman
Yeah, it's all through your browser. You run the Zoom in a tab on your browser, and then you link these tools to that tab, and it just listens in and runs it live.
- [43:45]
Jason Calacanis
Incredible.
- [43:46]
Lon Seidman
It is incredible.
- [43:48]
Jason Calacanis
Both of these are very strong contenders. You know, I have a lot of edits here, but, man, I am just shocked at what you can get done with a bounty contest. These two are very impressive. We got one more, and then we're going to give. Just so we're going to. Just so we're fair, because I'm literally going to cut this $5,000, check. And I might give it, you know, 3K to one person and then two honorable mentions for 1K each. I may give five to one person, but I think we should do give everybody the ability to do two iterations because I don't want to drag this on and be unfair. But since we didn't have any rules, I want to be clear because I'm a man of my word. If I'm going to give $5,000 and I said I would pay 5,000 for this, I want to pay the 5,000. But I want it to be my spec. Here's my spec. I want to be able to run this either on a public stream or I want to be able to run it privately when I'm on a zoom. Okay. Very simple. Either way. And then I'll narrow it down to. I just need, I don't need four Personas. I need one Persona. I'll take two Personas. A fact checker with citations, facts, and then a cynic. I'll take a cynic. I'll take a fact checker. So I'm cutting that down by half. You don't have to try to get the jokes right. That's my job. That's on me. And Lon, I just want fact, real time fact checking and real time cynic, you know, like giving me the other side of it. I love the idea of the transcript being shown and the addition. I think that's key because that allows me to be scrolling up and down. So if the guest was talking or if I was being interviewed, I'm being asked my next question. I can zoom up and down and say, oh, yeah, you know, in that previous answer I gave, I mentioned this podcast. It was Saan Piker and Gia and this person, one for the New Yorker. Gia works for the New Yorker and this person works for the New York Times. So I want to make sure I get my facts checked exactly. So that real time fact checking is so incredible. Okay.
- [45:33]
Oliver
The possibilities are, I think could go a little further even here as these models have bigger context windows. We can feed in our full docket and it can, you know, say, hey, this guest posted about this on X that we already have in the docket and it can connect there.
- [45:48]
Jason Calacanis
Okay, yeah, that could be in its memory. Yeah. Okay. I don't want to be unfair and make it a never ending. I don't want to keep moving the goal posts. But since. And I didn't think anybody would build this, I just said it, hey, you know, if somebody builds this, I'll give them 5k. I didn't think 15 people would come out here. So now we've. I've got to do a little cleanup work for the next bounty. We're going to announce our bounties with, like, a very specific process. So we're going to do this two more weeks in a row. This is incredibly exciting. We're going to do two more weeks in a row. So, like maybe next Friday and then the Friday after. This way people have, like, essentially three weeks of refinement. So today's Monday, April 27th. So we'll do May 1st. Well, that's right.
- [46:30]
Lon Seidman
May 1st is this Friday. Then May 8th is the next Friday, and then May 15th is the Friday after that.
- [46:36]
Jason Calacanis
Okay, so May 8th is the second week of the. Will be the second check in, and then the final winner will be whatever you get done for the 15th. Fair enough?
- [46:45]
Lon Seidman
I think that's fair. Do you want to. Do you want to check out number three? We've got Patrick, Please give me number three. All right, here's. Here's number three. I'm going to flip over to the tab right now. Side cast, maybe it's called. You could see. I've already been filling in the transcript and the agents are on their way now. My one comment here. It works amazingly. This was no setup. You just go to this URL and I'm just. It's working all on its own. The one. The one negative.
- [47:10]
Jason Calacanis
This is running right now, or this is running on a previous episode.
- [47:13]
Lon Seidman
This is running right now. You could see it's. It's. It's transcribing us live right down there. The one back. The one backdraw of this one. Or drawback. All the personalities are pretty similar. They're all very snarky. It's sort of like having four trolls watching the show.
- [47:29]
Jason Calacanis
I think that's the easiest thing to correct for, though. So just again, for whoever produced this one, what's the name of this one?
- [47:38]
Lon Seidman
BMD Pat, I believe is what he's calling it. This was Patrick Hughes, our viewer.
- [47:42]
Jason Calacanis
Fantastic. Can you scroll back to the political violence discussion?
- [47:48]
Lon Seidman
I think I started it after the political violence discussion.
- [47:51]
Jason Calacanis
No problem. Oh, so you actually fired this up? Okay, I fired this up. So this is fantastic.
- [47:54]
Lon Seidman
But anyone could go to bmdpat.com pod and check it out.
- [47:58]
Jason Calacanis
This is amazing. Fact checking and cynic. We're going to narrow down to those two. We're going to put a notion link in the enhanced show notes for today's show. In the description on YouTube about the contest. So there'll be a contest page with the rules, the dates. So if you're listening to this and you want to join, you can join now and you can just beat everybody. But go ahead and join. If you don't want the prize, you can donate it to charity. You pick the charity, as long as it's not something crazy and offensive and the person gets to come on the show and get their flowers. We will give the Twist Cup. The Twist cup to somebody on the show. There'll be some sort of Twist cup,
- [48:37]
Lon Seidman
the Twistivation prize, something.
- [48:40]
Jason Calacanis
Twistivation. Yes. We'll do like a Twist Bounty. Twist Bounty. One will be done. So we're going to put that in the links and we'll link to all the existing submissions. This is fantastic. I'm going to announce another content contest right now. I'm going to announce another one. This is inspiring to me. I think the audience is going to love this as well because it shows what the tools can do. And this is adjacent. I own the domain name annotated.com I had talked publicly that I'm looking for a developer or a team. I'm going to narrow the scope. I want this person to actually put this in the world for all of us to use. I want an annotation tool. This tool is a sidebar Chrome extension. It allows you, if you go to Annotated, to create an account, I don't know, log in with whatever service you want. X and Google, I think are like, probably the two big ones. And X is important for a reason. Then you put in a URL or it uses whatever page you're on. So if you're on the New York Times and the story comes out, or a podcast comes out, or a YouTube page. So the two examples I'd like to see is a news story in a YouTube page, specifically, you pick the YouTube page. You say, it asks you, where do you want to start? Where do you want to end? You say one minute, in and out at three minutes. It takes that, pulls the transcript, pulls the video, makes a landing page. Annotated.com Lons L, O, N, S slash, you know, YouTube video. The, you know, like a intelligent title. It then puts the clip on that landing page. We rip the clip because it's fair use. Maximum clip size is. Let's make it 90 seconds. That would be fair use. 90 seconds is your maximum clip size. And it downgrades it to a smaller file size. Right? So make it like, I don't know, 240 pixels, not even 480. So we're not stealing content. We're using fair use. And you can look up fair use. Fair use would be. I'm taking a small amount. I'm not using in the original resolution. I'm not interfering. But you have to write a commentary on it. And the commentary has to be a certain length, so either text or audio, whatever. But I just think text is fine. So you comment on it and then there's a button that says, you know, I'm going to do a fair use claim, or, you know, I believe you're stealing the content. And then we have to make a determination if it's fair use or not. You can't just use it to clip and steal. Or you take a New York Times story and you say clip this section, you highlight a section, you say clip, and then you put your commentary on it. It links back to the original. It gives credit to the source. Maybe it takes a screenshot. In other words, we don't want to screw the person's original content. It is. We just want to let you annotate somebody's original content. That's it. That's the contest. It has to be a live service, so you can make whatever you want.
- [51:34]
Lon Seidman
Right now, is it like a social network? Like, the idea is I have a feed and I'm looking at other people' annotations. That's the sort of community.
- [51:43]
Jason Calacanis
The annotations will be saved based on account. You can do an anonymous annotation. And you know what?
- [51:50]
Lon Seidman
You know what it reminds me of, Jason, in a weird way? Do you remember Delicious?
- [51:54]
Jason Calacanis
It is like a Delicious. Like a bookmark.
- [51:56]
Lon Seidman
It's an enhanced multimedia Delicious.
- [52:00]
Jason Calacanis
Correct?
- [52:00]
Lon Seidman
Yeah.
- [52:01]
Jason Calacanis
And yes, you have a stream of everything you've done.
- [52:05]
Lon Seidman
Right. So that would be delicious. You would bookmark things that you wanted to read. But I could check out somebody else's bookmarks.
- [52:10]
Jason Calacanis
And on the annotated. The annotated.com homepage is just download the sidebar. And on the thing it just says, it just gives like a feed of whoever posted last and then you can vote them up and down and you can comment under somebody else's. So when you say this section. Yeah, but under your section where you're fact checking the New York Times or you're taking a Ben Shapiro clip and you're arguing the other side of it from his. Oh, and you could do a podcast, too. So audio, video or text. Then you do the audio of a Ben Shapiro thing. I can comment under yours. So it has thread comments underneath it.
- [52:48]
Lon Seidman
Yeah, yeah. I mean, that would be the idea over time is people like a leaderboard I think would be really cool. Like, Here are the 10 most annotated pieces of media.
- [52:56]
Jason Calacanis
Anyway, there's a bunch of ideas. I'll put this up for 5 grand. 5000 stack I just gave.
- [53:03]
Lon Seidman
That's too bad.
- [53:03]
Jason Calacanis
I will do it over. We'll do it. Yeah. It's five dime skis. I own the rights to it. So if you make it, I own it. That's it. Because I'm going to make this an actual public service. But I might hire you for 5k a month to maintain it for me. I have to come up with the business model eventually, but I might pay you to if you're good at this. But anyway, this would be like, show your work. Worst case scenario, you make 5k. And worst case scenario for me is I throw it away and I burn 5k. Best case scenario, I hire you or I partner with you to make it a commercial service. This is what I always dreamed of building. Because a lot of times I don't know if you ever had this, Oliver. You're like, that's B.S. or that's brilliant. And I want to clip it and then comment on it in fair use. That's the key. It has to be fair use. So you can't take the whole New York Times story. Let's set each clip from text. Let's keep audio and video clips are 90 seconds or less text clips. What would you say, Lon?
- [54:04]
Lon Seidman
I mean, I think if you're taking 100 words. Yeah, I was going to say 75 to 100 words. Beyond that, you're sort of pulling a big chunk of the article, but 100 words.
- [54:14]
Jason Calacanis
Let's go with a hundred words, two
- [54:16]
Lon Seidman
sentences, you know, three sentences that stand out to you.
- [54:19]
Jason Calacanis
Particularly if you want to do more than a hundred. You just clip the next hundred, and then you could thread that with the previous one. One. Yeah. So let's say you wanted to go through a New York Times article and correct five points. It's just 100 words at a time.
- [54:34]
Lon Seidman
Yeah. Or you could just take.
- [54:35]
Jason Calacanis
And the person still has to go to the New York Times to read the full story.
- [54:38]
Lon Seidman
I mean, that's what I was gonna say is you could take the most offending sentence, annotate that, and then just add your comments about the entire article. People would still be able to get back to the article.
- [54:47]
Jason Calacanis
Correct. Always a link to the original source. Oliver, what do you think of this contest? You like this one?
- [54:52]
Oliver
Yeah, I think linking back to the original content, people love to see the top stories. And I love it. I'm excited to get my clipper working for me. Reviewing those clips, having a take and dropping in my take.
- [55:04]
Jason Calacanis
Or Oliver's gonna. He's gonna work Sunday and he's gonna just drop this and he's gonna take the 5K.
- [55:11]
Oliver
I'll just. I'm take what I'm doing after this calls. I'm taking this transcript saying make all of Jason's ideas and I'm entering the competition. There it is.
- [55:19]
Jason Calacanis
Perfect. Yeah, you just tell your agent, go make this J. Make him what he wants. All right, everybody. Great job, Oliver. Great job. Look in the show notes for Bounty 1. Bounty 1 is the real time fact checker cynic. Bounty 2 is annotated. So now we have two bounties. We'll have a Bounty page. This is going to be a reoccurring thing here on the show. Bounties for everybody. All right, everybody, it's been another amazing episode of Twist. Bye Bye.