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This Week in Tech (Audio)
TWiT 1027: 20 Years in the Can - Delete IP Law?, Recall Roll Out, Not Dire Wolves
03:17:10
Delete IP Law?, Recall Roll Out, Not Dire Wolves
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A
AI agents are everywhere, automating tasks and making decisions at machine speed. But agents make mistakes.
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Just one rogue agent can do big.
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Damage before you even notice.
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Rubrik Agent Cloud is the only platform.
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That helps you monitor agents, set guardrails and rewind mistakes so you can unleash agents, not risk.
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Accelerate your AI transformation@rubrik.com that's R u.
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B r-I k.com Today we'll attempt a feat once thought impossible, overcoming high interest credit card debt.
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D
FDIC 2 terms and conditions apply.
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NMLS 696891 it's time for TWIT this Week in Tech. It's a very different TWIT this week. I gotta warn you ahead of time, we've got a great panel. As always, Robert Balasaire, the digital Jesuit. Father Robert joins us. Alan Malvantano, he's back at Soledigm. Our SSD expert, Sam Abulcemed, my car expert. All old friends, but this is a special episode because we're celebrating Today our our 20th anniversary. The first twit aired on April 17, 2005, 20 years ago. And because on the thousandth episode we brought back the old panel and we kind of reminisced, I thought it'd be fun on this 20th anniversary episode to hear from our audience, people who watch the show, how they discovered us, where they watch us, that kind of thing. So we've got a lot of videos, poems and letters from you, our listeners, and we'll be playing those throughout the show, talking about the news as well. It's going to be a very special twit. Coming up next, AI agents are everywhere, automating tasks and making decisions at machine speed. But agents make mistakes.
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B
Just one rogue agent can do big.
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A
Damage before you even notice.
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B
Rubrik Agent Cloud is the only platform.
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A
That helps you monitor agents, set guardrails and rewind mistakes so you can unleash agents, not risk.
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B
Accelerate your AI transformation@rubrik.com that's R U B R I K.com.
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A
Podcasts you love from people you trust. This is Twit. This is TWiT this Week in Tech. Episode 1027 recorded April 13, 2025. 20 years in the can. It's time for TWiT this Week in Tech. The Show. We get together for the last 20 years and talk about the week's tech news. This is our 20th anniversary episode. I'm really thrilled to have this group with me. Good friends, Padre sj, Father Robert Balasir, the digital Jesuit visiting from the Vatican. Nice to see you, Father. You can bless this show. Yeah. So good to have you. Also with us, it's great to have Alan Malvintano, longtime friend of the show. He, of course, was longtime host of this Week in Computer hardware. He is an AI and SSD technologist back at Soledigm. Congratulations.
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D
Thanks.
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A
They keep pulling you back in. Former submariner.
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D
Yeah, among other things.
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A
And a nuclear guy. And he's got a bunch of cars taken apart in his garage. We just don't. Which is a lucky thing because guess who else is here? Sam Abul Salmon, my car guy is here. He does the car podcast at Wheel Bearings Media. Wonderful. And is a VP Research at Telemetry. Hello, Mr. Abul Samid.
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C
Hello, Leo and Padre and Alan, it's great to be here now. Honor to be here because I've been.
- [04:13]
A
Yeah, I'm thrilled to have all three of you. You've all been on many times. I had said Patrick Norton was going to come on the show, but I guess, Alan, you strong armed him. You tried to get your form.
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D
I think something about an archaeological dig and his garage.
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A
Patrick is famous for having done this show in so many places, including under a car in the early days. So anyway, I would have loved to have him on, but I understand these things happen. We did on the thousandth episode have Patrick on with a bunch of other old timers. The original hosts, the only one we haven't been able to get on is Kevin Rose, who said I will be in the air on Sunday. He's traveling like crazy. He and Alexis Ohanian are restarting dig. Former, former frenemies, of course. Alexis Ohanian, the founder of Reddit. Kevin started dig many moons ago.
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D
Didn't he lose a house?
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A
Yeah, sadly, his house burned down in the Pacific Palisades fire.
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D
In the fires.
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A
Yeah. Yeah. But I don't think it was his only house, so I think he's okay. Anyway, family's all right.
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B
Famous by a raccoon video, if you remember. It went viral years ago.
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D
Yeah.
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C
I thought that was in San Francisco.
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A
Yeah. No, this was a new house he had recently moved into, sadly. Oh, yeah. I might even built it. I'm not sure he built a house. That's a long story. We don't have to go into it.
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D
I just hope it didn't have his watch collection in it.
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A
That's all I oh my God, the watches.
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D
Yeah.
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A
Well, this show has been through a lot. In fact, at the end of the show, we are going to roll credits for all 389 people who have ever appeared on this Week in Tech. It's gonna, it's worth sticking around for to see if you recognize some of the names. It's kind of fun. The other thing we're gonna do during the show, I asked, and I've been asking for the last month for people to send in videos or stories about how they started watching Twitter and so forth. So we're gonna intermingle those into the show. In fact, I'll read a couple of emails and that I got. Not everybody sent a video. Scott Simmons, Scooter VC in a proud club Twitter member says I can't believe it's 20 years since you first showed up on my ipod. I figured I followed you from Tech tv, my unregistered online tech class that was constantly on my TV in my dorm in the late 90s when I was getting into my MIS degree. You guys have remained my primary source of tech education and information ever since. And this I it was a great. He says. My favorite moment that I can remember is when I heard Leo praising the USAA banking app and its innovative invention. At the time, it was innovative to deposit a check by scanning it. I work at USAA and while I wasn't part of the primary development team, I worked on some processes that enabled that functionality. To me, it was the highest compliment that Leo, whom I've been watching for years at that point, loved something that I'd had a small part working on. I still bank with USAA is a great, great bank. Thank you for all you do. You're always a bright spot my week. I hope you enjoy every second of celebrating this amazing accomplishment. I'll see you on Discord. Thank you so much, Scott. I really, really appreciate that. We got a lot of videos we'll play play them throughout the show and some some surprising locations. Some of these are kind of wild. I did. I'll read one more that I got because this comes from an unusual location. I wanted to say hi, my name is Ron. I'm currently incarcerated in prison in Washington. We get to listen to podcasts on the tablet. We get to have to pass the time. I have the joy of remembering you from the Screensavers many years ago when I worked just up the road at Hewlett Packard in Rohnert Park. In Santa Rosa, I would watch you and your co hosts. You've done so well with the programs and podcasts. Before I was sent to prison, I watched you on YouTube. I listened to the 1000th episode, and I wish I could be part of your anniversary show, but I won't be out until 2031.
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B
Oh, man.
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A
I wanted to thank you for allowing TWIT to be offered to us inmates for free. Of course, we're very happy to have you listen. As a nerd for over 40 years, it's a blessing to have the joy of twit every week. I wish we could have the other podcasts you are involved in, but I will enjoy what I get. Believe me, one twit a week is more than enough. I have watched and listened for 25 years. I enjoy the North Bay connection. Also, I live in Spokane. Again, thank you for the amazing show and keeping me updated with the tech world as I am incarcerated. I will join the chats when I'm released. Thank you. Ron. Ron. I hope we're around in 2031 and I wish you the best. Yeah, well, and this is the thing that's kind of amazing. These letters and videos came in from all walks of life all over the world. It's really been a joy and a pleasure to do this show along with you guys. It's really nice to have you. What. Do you remember the first show you were on, Father Robert? What's the first time you were on?
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B
Yeah, the first time I was on was I was in the Peninsula in the South Bay setting up for Interop.
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A
Interop.
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B
Brian Chi.
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A
Yeah.
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B
And what was the show that you did before Twit back in the day?
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A
Well, it was the tech guy. There was security now, and MacArthur's inside the net.
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B
It was tech guy. And I was in the chat room and I mentioned, oh, gosh, you know, I had already done the. The listener call in show for Tech News today. And I said, oh, yeah, I'm in the area. Oh, can I come up to the studio? I'd love to watch in person. And you said, if you come up, I'll put you on the show. And so jumped into a car with Brian Chi, hauled but to Petaluma. And yeah, that was my very first episode.
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A
Very first show that we did was April 17, 2005. So this is the closest date we could get to that. It was only 34 minutes. Patrick Norton, Kevin Rose, and Robert Heron. You can still listen to it if you want. Yeah, we're just. Yeah, you want to hear just. I Could play a little bit of it, just to give. Oh, that kind of extreme. This is. How weird. It sounded very different. We were on Skype. As long as we're catching up, what you up to these days, Robert? Everybody knows Robert Heron as the. As the crazy lab rat who specialized in video and would come on the show and with his whacked out hair and tell us the latest. Patrick was out of the car. I think you're not on TV though, these days probably.
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D
No, not these days.
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I am working, though for extreme tech.
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D
And pcmag.com and I'd love to.
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B
This is back when it was Revenge of the Screensavers.
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A
Incredible. This is. This is. It was the revenge of. Oh, we found my salad. Thank God. This was the Revenge of the Screensavers, which I only called it that briefly because I got an email, a cease and desist letter from Comcast saying we still use that name. You can't use that name. I kind of thought I might be.
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B
Recording on like little Zoom. Zoom audio recording.
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A
No, no, that was Skype. That was the only reason I realized we could do this. First time we did it was January of 2005, after Macworld Expo. And yes, we were all sitting in a table at a. At a bar, the 21st Amendment Brew Pub. And yeah, it might have been a Zoom. I don't. It was something. Oh, no, no, it was a Rantz Recorders. You knew. Yes, Sam, it was that Morantz recorder. Solid state recorder.
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D
This is like way, way pre Skyposaurus.
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A
Yeah, but. But because somebody called the radio show shortly after that on Skype, I realized, oh, I could do a show with people in different locales. And so those, those early Twits were mostly done on Skype, not with Skyposaurus. One call.
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C
When you, when you start like those first shows, had you even expanded out of the attic of the cottage?
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A
I was in a. I was in a. The tiny little Garrett room of an old bed and breakfast that we called the Twit Cottage later. But I was in a single. The smallest room in the cottage, in the attic. It was tiny. In fact, there is a system with Kevin Rose where he takes a tour. Very short tour.
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D
Yes.
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C
No.
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B
Yeah, I watched that one too. Wasn't there a time when you would have people record locally on a little audio recorder and then you try to combine the audio files later? Because I did that. That was just one time. That was so hard.
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A
We never did a lot of podcasts to this day, do what they call Double Enders, where everybody records locally and then Somebody assembles it. But the problem with that is it takes a long time to edit it and put it all together and to keep it synced.
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C
We, I mean we sort of do that now. It's gotten easier now with services like streamyard and. And so on.
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A
We use Restream. Yeah.
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C
You know they record everybody locally.
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A
Yeah.
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C
And upload it to the server and then I just grab them off the.
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A
Server and it's much easier.
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B
Nowadays we use Zencastr.
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D
Even the Brewpub Twit episode was episode zero.
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A
Yeah. Technically I don't consider it episode one because it was a one off.
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D
Right.
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But. And I didn't. It didn't intend it to be a podcaster. Well, I guess it technically was, but really we just put it on a website.
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D
Yeah.
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A
And I. And because 30,000 people downloaded it. That's when I said, geez, I wish I could do this more often.
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D
Light bulb.
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A
Well, the light bulb was when Skype. I realized I could do it more often with Skype because everybody, you know, Kevin was in la. Patrick, I don't remember where. I think he was in San Francisco. But you never know where Patrick's going to be. He's finally settled down a little bit. Do you remember the first time you were on?
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D
I think the first time I was on was when I was up in Petaluma. I think I came in studio and did one. Dvorak was on was like when the Samsung 840 EVO head like come out around then. Like this is way, way back. I remember that because Dvorak asked me like, what's your favorite ssd? And then he, he like he spot checked me with wire cutter. Oh, that's like while I was answering.
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A
Let me see if you're right.
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D
He searched. He. Oh yeah, that's what Wirecutter says. Yeah. I get no spam. Yeah.
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A
He used to love to come up because he would stop at the Costco in Nevada on the way to Petaluma because he said that guy got a great wine buyer there. Sam, when was the first time you were on?
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C
My first time on the Network was in January 2011 at CES because you and I, I had first met you in 2010. Yeah. When you were at, at the Maker Faire in Dearborn.
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A
Oh yeah. In Michigan.
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C
And then the following January I was at that point I was working for GM and we did a segment with the GM Envy Concepts.
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A
Oh yeah. Was it CES or Comdex?
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C
It was a CES, I remember. And then I wasn't actually on TWIT I think until like 2014, by which time I was, you know, I had shifted away and it was, I was working as an analyst at that point. So I think it was.
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A
You were a regular on the radio show. Of course. For many, many years. For a long time.
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D
Yeah.
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A
He was our car guy in the radio show. Well, don't worry, there will be news this week.
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D
We aren't going to appearance. I think Leo was this Week in computer hardware number 48. This is when you hosted this Week in Computer Hardware.
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A
I used to host it back in the early days.
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D
Yeah.
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A
A lot of times when I launched a show I would host it for a while just to get it off.
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D
First ever appearance I was in a barracks room on a navy base in Norfolk and I field stripped a DROBO on the stream. I love it.
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A
So you were still in the service at the time?
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D
I was still in the Navy, yeah. Wow.
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A
Wow. That's amazing. We've had so many great people. As I said at the end, stay till the end of the show because at the end we're going to show credits for everybody who's ever been not on the whole network, just on this show. On this Week in Tech we probably should mention some news. This was kind of a crazy easy week with the tariffs. The latest is the tariffs are off. Well, sort of off. Except for China where the tariffs are. I don't know how high they are because I can't keep track. Well over 100% enough to make it. So you really wouldn't want to buy anything made in China. And then on and off, just this weekend the President gave all CPUs, computers and parts made in China a break. Wide ranging.
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C
That was yesterday.
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A
That was on Friday night.
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D
Yesterday. Yeah, yeah.
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B
Even that has changed because they came out two hours ago and they said, no, no, no, no, we're not really. It's not permanent exemptions. Yeah. These are just pausing. We're pausing those tariffs.
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A
We wouldn't want anybody to get comfortable with this situation.
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B
We wouldn't want the market to settle or anything. We wouldn't want people to be able to figure out a supply chain for the. So let's, let's keep some uncertainty in there.
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A
We don't know what happened. I imagine Tim Cook called the President and said, dude, you're literally going to put Apple out of business because the tariff with 145% tariff on iPhones would make the iPhone unaffordable. Apple did move a lot of its manufacturing as much as it could to India, Vietnam and Brazil. But, but still, the majority of stuff is made in China and assembled in China. They even flew a number of big cargo planes from India trying to get as many iPhones into the United States. Before the tariffs went up, Vietnam had a 49% tariff, but that's paused. But again, it's only for 90 days. None of this is enough for Apple to say, oh, we dodged a bullet. What would happen if an iPhone doubled? More than doubled in price.
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B
Well, that it's cheaper to fly to another country, buy an iPhone and fly back.
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D
Yeah.
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A
Get a nice trip to Thailand. Yeah, same thing. It would be the same thing with laptops and more importantly for CPUs, which would affect cars, wouldn't it, Sam? I mean, cars already have.
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C
Absolutely.
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A
Yeah.
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C
In fact, you know, we were just, as we were recording this morning, I was reviewing the truck that I was driving last week. It's a truck that was built here in the US It's a GMC canyon. And looking at the window sticker, you know, they've got some data on content and it said on there US and Canada content, even though it's assembled in Missouri, US and Canada content, 49%. And it doesn't break out what the Canadian content is versus US and then another 25% from Mexico and then the other 26% from somewhere else. So even a vehicle that's built here, at a minimum, at least half of the, the value of it came from outside of the United States and probably closer to about 60 to 65% of the value of parts and so on came from outside the US and electronics are a big part of that, you know, because there's a lot of chips, you know, whether you're talking, you know, older legacy designs that might have 100 electronic control units scattered around the vehicle or more modern designs like the one I was just driving the other day, that have a central computer with two Nvidia orange chips in there. That's a big chunk of the value of the vehicle is just in. Silicon is imported.
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A
On Friday at midnight, exemptions were granted to computers, smartphones, monitors, flash memory, dram and other storage like hard drives, video cards, flat panel televisions. Regardless of screen type, power supplies and other finished goods. Silicon chips no longer tariffed nor the fabrication machinery needed to make them. However, Apple watch bands are still tariffed. Leather goods, iPhone cases still tariffed. Cabling, PC cases, and the raw materials to make them, aluminum, titanium and steel, all still tariffed. How does Soledym, how does an SSD manufacture, Does Soledym manufacture its chips in the Us.
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D
Well, I mean, there are some, but there's still plenty of fabs that are overseas. Just like any other. Just like any other chip.
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C
Right. And Leo, just to follow up on what you just said, I just pulled up WhiteHouse.gov and the latest. The most recent article on here is Sunday shows President Trump's America first trade policies in action. And it's got some bullet points of what was said by people like Howard Lutnick, the Commerce Secretary, on tariffs for certain electronics, which is what you were just referring to.
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D
Yeah.
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C
These products are going to be part of the semiconductor sectoral tariffs which are coming. We need to have these things made in America. So, you know, they may be sort of on pause for now, but coming back soon at who knows what the lesson is.
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B
In 2 months, everyone please build fabs that normally take between 6 and 10 years to spin up properly.
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C
Yeah, that's about right.
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B
Yeah, let's do that. Just do that.
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A
And you're never going to make iPhones in the US That's a pipe dream. No, no. Right, right. I mean, I think it was Lutnick or maybe it was Besent who said, oh, yeah, we'll have. Americans will be screwing in tiny screws any day now. It's not going to happen.
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D
I mean, I mean, you would, you would think the only way that they could pull it off was if everything or the majority of it was automated. But even that's not the case because all the automotive engineers are over in.
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A
China, plus the robotics come from China.
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D
Automation. Automation engineers.
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A
What's happened, whether you agree on the idea of tariffs and whether it makes sense economically, is we've been living in a world where it was essentially a free trade world for a long time. And so we've created these multinational supply chains. And you're asking to overnight stop it.
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D
Right.
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A
And I don't know if you can. Yeah, it's even worse if you say stop it or maybe don't stop. Wait a minute. Don't stop it. No. But. No. Oh, you're gonna. Maybe we'll stop it in three months. We might. I don't know. I don't know how. What must be going on in the boardrooms of Apple right now. I mean, or. Or every big Dell or. Yeah, I mean, instead of.
- [22:48]
D
I mean, instead of spending cycles on innovating, everybody's having to think about contingency plans for what do we do?
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A
I don't even know how you make. How do you make plans for something like that?
- [22:57]
D
Exactly.
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B
I mean, basically they'd be saying we know that we can force him to back down. If we complain enough and we threaten him enough with the economic consequences, he'll back down, at least temporarily. So you could get into the cycle where every two or three months, there's a pause. Everyone loads up on every possible chip that they need while the tariffs are down, which will essentially mean that the Chinese companies make all the money that they were making before, so there's no effect to them and there's no reason for them to negotiate. And then it goes back to a tariff and we have a panic and the market drops out and the treasury bonds continue to rise. And then two months after that, he'll pause it again. The problem is you can backwards engineer what's happening. Ludnick is claiming that this is all part of the plan, but we know it's not. We know that there was panic so that they stepped back, and then people started saying, well, Trump is surrendering. So then he redoubled his efforts, and then he backed off, and then he redoubled.
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A
It may not even matter what Trump does because China has suspended exports of rare earth minerals and magnets. China is just. They, of course, have their own tariffs on inbound US Stuff, but China is just turning off the tap whether there's tariffs or not.
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C
Well, the other interesting thing that China said the other day was, you know, after they cranked it up to 145%, you know, China was at 125%. Yeah. We're not going to bother going beyond. We're done at 125. There's no point in us continuing this tit for tat because it's not going to have any effect. You know, it's, it's ridiculous.
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B
They said, you know, 125% is effectively the same as 4,000%.
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C
Yeah.
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B
At that point, it's.
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C
So why.
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B
It's. It. That's. It's childish. Now, there is, there is a vocal group on the groups that we monitor that are saying, oh, this proves that the US Needs Greenland because Greenland has all these rare earths that we're looking. Ah, they don't mention that it would take 20 years to set up the infrastructure and drill through sheets. So, you know, they're not, you know.
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C
Where else we have those rare earths right here in the United States.
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A
Yeah, we're just not mining for here.
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C
Yeah, yeah, we've got, we've got a lot of these materials, most of these materials, but we just haven't been extracting.
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B
Them cash in Las Vegas.
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D
But that takes Time to spin up. Right? That's not a thing. Overnight you can just suddenly, poof. Now we have all these rare earths.
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A
I mean, there isn't, it's funny because, okay, I don't know what commentary there is to make. It's obviously a problem. There's, that's that. And we're just going to, we're all in. We've got a crazy person driving the car and we're on the back seat and we have, do we have any.
- [25:43]
C
I mean, I'd like to add something else to this, which is, you know, even beyond the tariffs, the whole deregulatory policy that the administration has, which is, you know, for the, for the auto industry, for example, you've got this push to pull back on, on all the emissions and fuel economy regulations, which is one of the things that was driving the move towards electrification. Okay, so we do that. You. And then you've got the tariffs, you know, so you're driving, you're, you're pushing manufact automakers and suppliers to put manufacturing back in the US where it's going to be more expensive. So you've added costs there. Now you have pulled back on the, on the other regulations and now the automakers have more incentive to invest more in old technologies, continue building engine, internal combustion engines and so on. And, but at the same time, the rest of the world is not pulling back on that. So you've got to have electrification. And so you're adding costs all over the place, stacked on top of each other, which is going to reduce the resources that these companies have for R and D and innovation. And we're already losing on innovation to China. And so what's going to end up happening if we continue down this path is the US Auto industry essentially becomes an island that with products that they can't sell anywhere else in the world. Nobody wants what Trump wants them to build. And so the, the, and you know, you look outside of the US you go to Canada, you go to Mexico, you know, they're moving forward with things like electrification, South America even. And so with these trade policies, they're going to say, all right, byd, you want to build a factory in Windsor, Ontario, come on in. And so the US Industry is going to be completely isolated and totally non competitive in the rest of the world and they're going to end up getting crushed.
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A
Not to mention the fact that Doge has fired most of the safety experts.
- [28:03]
C
Yeah, well, there's not, not a great loss there because they've been utterly ineffectual for the past decade anyway.
- [28:09]
A
Okay, okay. But I think Elon has something to do with that. Right. They were investigating car safety. Full self driving vehicles in full self driving in the Tesla vehicles. Sam, if you could turn your mic down just a little bit. You're clipping a little bit. We're going to take this one tariff.
- [28:25]
B
Thing that I think it's important to get on the record because. Yes. So often misunderstood. John Gerard brought it up in the discord when he says what does free trade mean? Does that mean that no country had tariffs of any amount on American goods? This is actually really important. It's a good question because I live with three economists, three economist professors and what they have tried to explain to me is it's so difficult to actually calculate what tariffs are because it's not just outright. We're taxing this percentage of whatever we you sell to us. They can count as tariffs. Do you have lax employment standards that allow people to work in substandard conditions for substantive wages? Do you have environmental laxity that allows people to pollute which drives down their costs because they don't have to worry about being fined or having to pay for cleanup? Do you have a system of economy that charges the same amount for transportation of goods between your provinces and other countries? Now, depending on how you add those numbers up, you can get extremely high numbers or extremely low numbers. What this administration has done is they've taken all the worst case numbers because they want to show a worst case scenario. But that doesn't actually reflect what the real tariffs are. And we don't know what the real tariffs are because even the best economists can't give us definitive numbers. They can just say this country has lax environmental standards, this country has lax employment standards. This country has a easier transfer between countries. So it's, it's, it's a good question. It just doesn't have a simple answer.
- [30:00]
A
We enjoyed the benefits of that though, right? We iPhones a lot cheaper because yeah, we like that.
- [30:08]
B
We want that. We don't want to be polluting our environment. We don't want to be running sweatshops. We just want the finished product. Well, okay, but then you can't blame us for giving you what you want.
- [30:20]
A
Right? Wow. It's a complicated world. That's the truth of it. Let's take a little break. I'm going to play a video and then we're going to go into a spot and we'll have more. We're done with the tariffs though. More other, other news. We are watching the 20th anniversary episode. I would never, if you'd asked me 20 years ago if this would be the topic, I would not have thought that I was very, I, I have been very bullish on the tech sector. Obviously I'm, I'm a little less bullish now. Here we go with a. Our first video. I'm going to do it in alphabetical order of your first name. This is Alexander. Hello Leo. Hello the team this week in Tech. My name is Alex. I'm a software developer from Brazil but.
- [31:08]
C
I live in the northwest of France.
- [31:10]
B
In a very small city called Luck.
- [31:13]
A
Maria Kerr.
- [31:15]
C
I've been listening to the show for over 10 years now and you guys are part of my Monday morning routine. With you guys I've learned a lot.
- [31:24]
A
Of things about smart speaker cryptocurrency and now I'm learning a lot about AI. Thanks for the great work. Bye bye. Thank you Alexander. We'll stop and we'll get to Andrew in just a second. Andrew, hold on, we're going to have more. Whoa.
- [31:40]
B
What was going on there?
- [31:41]
A
In just a moment while I had my segue to the next video I have put it all into. Thank you vlc. We were trying all different ways of playing this. Turned out VLC was the best way to do it. We're going to have more with this week at Tech in just a little bit. Our great panelists, Alan Malvantano now back at Solendigm. Congratulations I guess, right?
- [31:59]
B
Yeah.
- [32:00]
A
They made you an offer you couldn't refuse. I'm glad to hear it. It's great to have you making the.
- [32:06]
D
SSDs faster, you know, the usual.
- [32:07]
A
Yeah, this is the usual end but I see this AI. Are you doing AI too?
- [32:12]
D
Yeah. So I went to Fison for a year and worked on a bunch of AI related SSD products and or projects and turns out that that's also one of the things Solidigm was looking for so it came in handy.
- [32:23]
A
It's good to have some skills in this day and age. Congratulations.
- [32:27]
D
As it turns out it's handy to offset some GPU VRAM with some SSD capacity in some cases because you know, GPU VRAM is kind of pricey.
- [32:39]
A
Yes, absolutely. Also Sam Abulsamet who has recently changed jobs, he is now an analyst at Telemetry. Same, same beat basically the car.
- [32:50]
C
Basically the same beat. Doing market research for the transportation mobility industry. We just published our first market forecast report last week and doing advisory work with a number of clients. So yeah, same same kind of stuff but no longer sponsored by my employer.
- [33:10]
A
Oh, well, talk about Guidehouse. They were in the news as a matter of fact, in just a little bit. Your former employer also. But you can, you can recuse yourself from that conversation, I'm sure.
- [33:21]
C
No, I'm happy to talk about it.
- [33:22]
A
Oh, good. All right.
- [33:24]
C
And then after all, they are my former employer.
- [33:26]
A
Yes. Then there's Father Robert, who responds to a higher authority.
- [33:33]
B
You will have to change to working with AI. So, you know.
- [33:35]
A
Yeah. Well, there you go. There you go. It's great to have all three of you. Thank you for joining me on this 20th anniversary edition. Our show today brought to you by ZipRecruiter. They've been with us for many a year, both as an advertiser, but also as the company we used to do. Hiring. You know what speed dating is, right? If you're the owner of a growing business. What if there was a speed dating like feature for hiring? In other words, you could meet several hundred interested qualified candidates at once, all at a designated time. It kind of is. It's called Zip Intro and this is brand new from ZipRecruiter. You can post your job today and start talking to qualified candidates tomorrow. Right now you can try Zip Intro for free@ziprecruiter.com TWiT Zip Intro gives you the power to quickly access excellent candidates for your job. And it's kind of like speed dating. You do it via back to back video calls. Now you of course pick the candidates, you pick the time and Zip Intro does all the work of finding and scheduling qualified candidates for you. Then you can choose who you want to talk to and meet with great people as soon as tomorrow. Right? It's so easy. And by the way, when you're, you know, down a person, you maybe do want to do this tomorrow. I want to hire somebody fast. That's what ZipRecruiter is all about. Enjoy the benefits of speed hiring with the new Zip intro only from ZipRecruiter. Rated number one hiring site on G2. Try Zip Intro for free. The website is ziprecruiter.com TWIT Again, that's ziprecruiter.com TWiT Zip Intro post jobs today. Talk to qualified candidates tomorrow. Let me play one more video, then we're going to get back into the news. This is Andrew. Andrew, Happy Anniversary Twitch Gang. I've been watching since about 2016 when.
- [35:42]
C
Leo was still on the radio.
- [35:45]
A
I just wanted to say how much I've enjoyed the content and being a part of Club Twitch. And also thank you for the great product you've recommended over the years. Happy anniversary. Thank you. Oh, and we'll get to ant in a bit. Stay tuned. Aunt. Don't go anywhere. Thank you, Andrew. Really great to have you in our club and thanks to all of our club members. We started that a few years ago when the ads were a little bit lean. It's worked out really well. We're really glad to have all those wonderful club twit members. So thank you for being a great part of the twit famous Back to the news. Jack Dorsey and Elon Musk. This was an interesting tweet started with Jack Dorsey who said delete all IP law on Twitter. To which yeah, interesting, huh? This was yesterday or day before yesterday. To which Nicole Shanahan, who said, I am an actual IP professional here. No, IP law is the only thing separating human creations from AI creations. If you want to reform it, let's talk. To which Jack, he amplified a little bit, said, creativity is what currently separates us and the current system is limiting that and putting the payments disbursements into the hands of gatekeepers who aren't paying out fairly. And actually, this is something as provocative as that tweet is. This is something even Cory Doctorow has been saying for a long time is that copyright only favors, really the publishers, not the creators. It's the publishers who wanted copyright in the first place. Can you imagine a world without IP protection?
- [37:30]
D
He's kind of dipping in the patent trolls too there.
- [37:33]
A
Yeah, yeah, Patent troll's another problem. Elon Musk, by the way, responded with two words, I agree.
- [37:41]
B
I mean, let's be serious. What they're after is the ability to feed everything into their AI.
- [37:46]
A
Oh, that. That's it. That's all they.
- [37:49]
B
Everything else is a smokescreen. They can say, oh, we want to make sure that creators are paid fairly for their creations. But no, it's. We would like to be able to train our LLMs on absolutely everything without restrictions, and then we can figure out payment later if we ever get to that point.
- [38:04]
A
It's an interesting debate, though, because you're right. Without trademark and copyright protections, without patents. The whole idea of patents was to encourage inventors to invent stuff. And then after a suitable period of time where they exclusively enjoy the fruits of their invention, it's put out into the public so that everybody could benefit from that patent, which has seemed like a good idea at the time.
- [38:28]
C
Well, and. And it was, and still is, except that somewhere along the way, over the last several decades, we've gotten to the point where there was so much stuff that they were, that people were trying to, that people were trying to patent. And we didn't have competent patent examiners that actually knew how to evaluate these patent applications. And so they were just granting patents willy nilly on everything, especially on software that had no business being protected. You know, there were some, there were some genuine innovations that deserve protection, but the number of those was a tiny fraction of the total number of patents being granted. That's why we got into this whole mess with patent trolls.
- [39:15]
A
Right?
- [39:16]
B
We had an episode of Twilight where we actually brought in someone from the US Patent, the uspto, and essentially what he told us was, look, the people who really know this stuff, who can pick it up immediately and look at a patent application and say whether or not this is unique and novel, they work for the other side. We can't pay enough for, for these, these specialists to work for the government. So of course we're going to have substandard review of applications. And that hasn't changed. There's so much more money to be made on the other side of the patent troll fence.
- [39:52]
A
This is an interesting debate. When Jeff Jarvis comes by with Intelligent Machines on Wednesday, I'm sure he'll have something to say about this too. He said has said for a long time that copyright anyway is problematic from a creator's point of view. But you're right, I think that the real reason Jack Dorsey and Elon Musk want to do it is so they can. Is. Does Dorsey have an AI play?
- [40:16]
C
I would be shocked if he's not an investor in xai.
- [40:19]
A
Right. And so actually I think, yeah, his.
- [40:22]
B
Twitter, his Twitter shares were rolled into xai, so.
- [40:25]
C
Yeah, so he's at least got that much.
- [40:27]
A
Yeah, that's right. Yes. It's all one.
- [40:30]
C
He was, he was probably also, I think he was also an investor in XAI even before that.
- [40:35]
A
Right?
- [40:36]
B
Correct.
- [40:36]
A
Okay. Okay. Tomorrow, Meta's court date appears. The FTC wants to break up Meta. He wants, wants Facebook, Instagram and WhatsApp to be three separate applications. And this will be a trial, an antitrust trial that begins tomorrow, which could completely change Meta's business. Or not. That's the question. Now this one is going ahead even without Lina Khan running the ftc. So Meta has made enemies in both administrations, apparently. Meta's statement says the FTC's lawsuit against Meta defies reality. The evidence at trial will show what every 17 year old in the world knows. Instagram, Facebook and WhatsApp compete with Chinese owned TikTok, Google's YouTube, X iMessage and many others. More than 10 years after the FTC reviewed and cleared our acquisitions, the commission's action in this case sends the message that no deal is ever truly final. That's a good point. They were allowed to buy WhatsApp and Instagram. Should they be forced to divest now?
- [41:51]
B
What harm is caused by the integration? So I'm playing devil's advocate here. The fact that they can combine three extremely popular services that operate in different niches, how are they leveraging that unfairly? Or is it just because it's one company and we don't like that? I mean, in order for there to be a violation, there has to be some sort of leverage that they're applying between the products in order to improve the overall position of all platforms. Do you see that happening? Is that actually happening.
- [42:24]
A
Guys?
- [42:27]
B
Yeah, it's hard. It's a very hard question. I mean, I, I like it.
- [42:31]
A
We Also, in the US we don't have a good handle on how powerful WhatsApp is. You do in Italy though, right?
- [42:36]
B
Oh, gosh, yes. It's the default here. Everyone uses it.
- [42:39]
C
Outside of the United States, it is pretty much the default. Is it now the rest of the rest? Yeah. Outside the U.S. yeah.
- [42:45]
B
Africa, Asia, Europe, it's all WhatsApp, Apple messages.
- [42:50]
C
Yeah, Apple. Apple Messages is pretty much a US Centric thing or North America centric. And, you know, Signal has gained, you know, a bit of traction over the years, but it's. But WhatsApp is really the, the one because it, you know, it supported things like group chat a lot earlier and a lot better than other services.
- [43:14]
B
But the question is, because I don't see it on this end, does WhatsApp then drive traffic to Instagram and.
- [43:20]
A
Probably not Facebook, probably not. Instagram drives traffic to Threads, but that's kind of de minimis.
- [43:26]
B
I mean, who cares? So it'd be hard to prove the harm. Unless you're saying, oh, no, they're using the fact that, that WhatsApp operates with Facebook to hurt platforms like X and, and Blue Sky.
- [43:38]
A
And you'd have to agree that there is plenty of competition for WhatsApp and for Instagram. Is there any competition for Facebook? No, not really. No. But who uses Facebook except old people like me?
- [43:51]
C
Right?
- [43:52]
B
I've been pushing Signal. I've been telling people if you sign up for a signal, there's a less than 0% chance that you'll get US secret military war plans.
- [44:03]
A
Join the group.
- [44:04]
B
Yeah.
- [44:05]
A
The judge hearing this, it's a bench case. There's no jury. The judge hearing it is actually an interesting judge. He's also hearing the Venezuelan case, the deportees to Venezuela case. Judge Boasberg. It's unclear what the Trump administration, you know, remember Mark keeps going to the White House in Mar a Lago. He's made multiple trips. Mark Zuckerberg. It's unclear what the president himself thinks. Zuckerberg donated a million dollars to the Inaugural Committee. He has agreed to pay Trump $25 million. The president sued Facebook and Instagram for being suspended after January 6th. They settled. Facebook settled that in a clear attempt to kind of curry favor with the President.
- [44:57]
B
Unfortunately.
- [44:58]
A
But so far, the FTC is pursuing it aggressively. Sorry.
- [45:01]
B
It is kind of clear in the sense that, remember, not too long ago, Trump thought TikTok was the worst thing ever.
- [45:08]
C
I know.
- [45:08]
B
And it was the reason why we needed to get rid of sexual.
- [45:10]
A
It's transactional, of course.
- [45:12]
B
But then he got popular on TikTok and there were a lot of influencers on TikTok who were pushing the Trump weight.
- [45:19]
A
Well, also, 30% of TikTok is owned by a big donor. Jeff Yassin.
- [45:23]
B
Precisely. So if the same thing starts happening on Facebook, if the data starts coming out, oh, no, they're really pro Trump on Facebook, then he'll back down because we know that's. That's his number one priority. I want to look good.
- [45:34]
A
The new chair of the ftc, Andrew Ferguson, said his lawyers are raring to go against Meta, but he also said at that same time, I will obey off lawful orders from the President. So in a way, he's leaving the door open for President Trump to.
- [45:50]
C
Yeah. One thing to remember is that one of the first. One of the early executive orders of this administration was that the DOJ would no longer prosecute cases under the Foreign Corrupt Practices Act.
- [46:04]
B
Correct.
- [46:04]
C
Which effectively is make bribery great again.
- [46:07]
A
Right.
- [46:08]
C
Yeah. I mean that in. In my prior job, you know, we had to go through regular.
- [46:13]
A
Oh, yeah.
- [46:14]
C
Online training courses, and one of the ones that we had to do at least once a year, actually. I think over the last several years, we. I ended up having to do the same course, like twice a year was, you know, the Foreign Corrupt Practices act because, you know, you weren't allowed to give or accept bribes in exchange for business.
- [46:34]
A
When I worked for Premier on the radio show, even then Clear Channel, which was the owner at the time, would say, here's, you know, here's what they have. Little quizzes like, Joe is trying to get his goods through the. The port of you Know Frankfurt and he wants to give the port director $1,000 to help things along. Is that okay? And of course you're supposed to say no, of course not. That's bribery. Well, not anymore.
- [47:02]
D
No.
- [47:04]
A
Well, it'll be interesting to see. I don't at this point it's kind of breaking up Meta doesn't seem like a big deal. Remember, the government also is talking about breaking up Google.
- [47:16]
B
But they can demonstrate a harm. So the connection between the browser, it's easier for that.
- [47:21]
A
Yeah, it's easier.
- [47:22]
B
It's easier to show that. Yeah, they're leveraging something bad here with, with Metis properties. I mean, yes, they have cross posting, but I don't see how they're hurting competition by having those three. They are incredibly popular, but they're not.
- [47:36]
C
Stifling competition, at least between Facebook and Instagram. Maybe not so much with, with WhatsApp. You know, the, they do share the data that comes through those and they use that as part of their ad targeting algorithms. And so it does amplify a lot of what they're doing with the ad targeting and, and at least in theory, you know, makes that more effective. It allows them to get higher prices for the ads in much the same way as what Google does, you know, across their various properties with advertising.
- [48:08]
A
In a completely unrelated story, when you go to see the new Megan movie M3gan, you will be encouraged to interact with the evil doll via a Megan chatbot. Meta is launching its movie Mate technology with a screening. This is just why this is just what you want in a theater. Allowing moviegoers to second screen during the film to access exclusive content, trivia and behind the scenes info in real time.
- [48:41]
B
This is fantastic, Leo. I love this because I needed a really good reason to never go to a theater.
- [48:47]
A
Never again. Unbelievable.
- [48:53]
B
If I wanted to be watching a movie with a bunch of people looking at their phones, I'd be. I'd go to my parents house. I don't mean that's not what I want in a darkened theater.
- [49:01]
A
Good answer. Good. Unbelievable. We got so many videos and I'm going to try to play as many as I can, but this was one video that brought me, I would say brought me a little bit to tears from a dear, dear friend. Aunt.
- [49:22]
B
Hey there chief twit.
- [49:24]
A
Mr. Leo Laporte, Ms. Lisa Laporte and.
- [49:29]
B
The entire Twit family. Hope y' all doing okay. I wanted to send in my video to say first congratulations and happy 20th.
- [49:41]
A
For everyone there at Twit.
- [49:42]
B
And also just to say thank you.
- [49:45]
D
For Everything that you and the family.
- [49:47]
B
Has done for me and my family, you know, before ever becoming an employee at twit, you know, I let it be known that I was a fan and you know, yes, the economy went to craptastic and everything changed and I'm no longer there as an employee of.
- [50:05]
A
Twit, but I am still a fan. I still watch the shows regularly, each and every week. Whether I agree with the stuff that's discussed or not. It's.
- [50:16]
C
That's nothing but love and nothing but.
- [50:19]
B
Respect and I appreciate everything that you.
- [50:24]
A
All have done for me. Far as the experience that I gathered there that I still find useful to this day.
- [50:34]
B
Far as how I used to watch.
- [50:35]
A
TWiT, I remember watching it just on.
- [50:38]
B
An old CRT computer monitor back in.
- [50:41]
A
The days in the early 2000s and just waiting on that RSS feed to update.
- [50:48]
B
Of course, now that's changed to watching it via the YouTube feed on my big screen TV. And when I was thinking about watching, watching it back in the days, it reminded me of one of the first times that we met.
- [51:03]
A
Actually, it was the first time that we met in person here in Petaluma when the whole family came out, when we got together for meeting, got together to meet for dinner. Queen Pruitt says, oh, you're the white.
- [51:18]
B
Haired guy on the screen that he's.
- [51:20]
A
Watching all the time. I'll never forget that because she was.
- [51:26]
D
Just as genuine as she always is.
- [51:29]
A
And the look on your face, you just laughed and it was a really good time. It was nothing but love for you and the whole TWIT family. So, yeah, feel free to stay in touch. I will continue to watch the shows like I normally do and continue to do whatever it is that I'm doing as a full time creator. Again, happy 20th to you.
- [51:56]
B
Here's to many more.
- [51:58]
A
As long as you want to. Mr. I'm going to retire. Thank you. Thank you. Aunt Pruitt and I have very fond memories of that barbecue we had with Hard Heads and Queen. The Queen. And it was so much fun. And I miss you, Ant. I see you. Of course, he's in the discord right now, member of our club. And we just miss him. And you know, I have fantasies someday if we raise enough money with a club to bring aunt back and a lot of the people we've, we've had to leave behind along the way. It's not an easy thing running a business, as you might imagine. We will have more very, very kind videos from a whole bunch of people. All right, let Me do one. I gotta do one more. One more video. Because this one is, well, an unusual place. Watch here, let me finish. Hi, Leo. Chris here, Club Twit member and listener since I think late 2005 when I.
- [52:56]
B
Got into podcasting, I listen to all.
- [53:00]
A
Episodes of Hackbreak Weekly and Twit everything that Micah does. And occasionally I dip into Security now.
- [53:09]
B
And Windows Weekly, but they're a little.
- [53:12]
A
Bit geeky for me. I'm two years older than you and retired. As I was coming up to retirement.
- [53:20]
B
My wife was worried that I'd just.
- [53:21]
A
Vegetate in front of a computer monitor, so she suggested we started sailing.
- [53:27]
B
Well, we'd already been sailing for a.
- [53:28]
A
Little while, but now we can sail in continuously around the world for three years.
- [53:34]
B
In fact, right now we're sailing past.
- [53:36]
A
French Guiana, Devil's island actually, where Papillon was imprisoned for, I think, 13 years.
- [53:43]
B
And in four days time we'll be in the Caribbean and will have completed our circumnavigation.
- [53:52]
A
Anyway, I wanted to say congratulations on 20 years of podcast and Twit and Macro Weekly.
- [53:59]
B
I've listened to most of the episodes.
- [54:01]
A
And enjoy them all. Of course, with Starlink nowadays and high speed comms, I know you like travel.
- [54:09]
B
You could buy a boat as well.
- [54:11]
A
Put Starlink on it and do the next 20 years. Don't tempt me. Cheers, Leo and all the team, thank you. It's so great to hear from you. Andrew on his boat next to Devil's Island. Amazing. Actually, that was Chris on that. Thank you, Chris. All right, we can now do some more news. I just, I have so many. We have so many very thoughtful, very kind videos. I thought it'd be fun to do a clip show, but not clips of us. Clips from our viewers and our family, really. And it's really fun to see all of those people. As long as we're still talking, Trump, I cannot resist this one. We are big fans of Christopher Krebs. Very smart guy. He was the head of the cybersecurity infrastructure security agency CISA during the last Trump administration. He made the mistake of saying that the 2020 election was free and fair and was, in fact, he said, one of the most secure elections in American history, which caused some enmity, I think, with the president. Trump on Wednesday signed an order targeting him for investigation by his basically pet Department of Justice at this point, no accusation of a criminal act by Chris Krebs. And he, as far as I know, I'm, you know, a very high integrity individual.
- [55:47]
B
This is, this is not investigate him for any particular action. This is. I would like you to find a crime.
- [55:53]
A
Find a crime.
- [55:54]
C
It's harassment. That's all it is. Just plain and simple harassment.
- [55:57]
A
Krebs works with our friend Alex Stamos at Sentinel One great guy and absolutely high integrity. And this is, it's more than harassment. It's really the beginning of what I fear is a kind of authoritarianism, almost a Stalinesque authoritarianism where people who disagree with the president are then prosecuted. We'll see if anything comes of this. It might just be an EO that does that. Nothing happens. Right.
- [56:27]
B
I mean there's, there's very few people who have the 10, 000 foot view of security like Krebs. Krebs. Krebs can do it all. And we are allowing a man who, whose feelings were hurt because Krebs didn't go along with the party line and he's allowing him to sacrifice expertise for loyalty. I mean that, that is insidious. Once you start doing that, you end up with, with not with a non functional government. Because if people in the government can't disagree with the party line, you don't have a government. You have yes men.
- [57:04]
A
Yeah. And you don't want the remaining people at cisa, and by the way, quite a few of them have already been fired. You don't want them fearing political retaliation sometime down the road for doing the half of the full time staff at 40% of the contractors are under the gun. They haven't been fired yet. But it is imminent. Sisa, how important is CISA to our security?
- [57:32]
B
Extremely. It's, it's basically the, the first, the last, the only line of defense we have for, for most of the most secret stuff that, that the United States deals with.
- [57:43]
A
Yeah.
- [57:43]
B
If you don't have a functional cisa, you are essentially telling all of the bad state actors it's open house. Go ahead and do whatever you want as long as you pay lip service to one or two people in our administration and we won't call you on it. It's. It's such a bad precedent.
- [57:59]
D
Yeah. Halfway or half. My Navy career was in cyber security.
- [58:03]
A
Right. Yeah, I know.
- [58:05]
D
And I mean this goes just beyond this for this particular case. The thing that bothers me about this is if you're an expert in the field, like for example, I deal with SSDs day in, day out. If I need to make a statement about just a way that the thing acts, as an expert in the field, like I need to be able to just call a spade a Spade, whatever the case may be. Right. But in this case, this guy's getting, you know, harassed and gone after because he just called it. I mean, I guarantee you he had a whole bunch of data at his disposal to back up what he said.
- [58:37]
A
He also reverted to Krebs security clearance, which he's been doing to almost everybody in previous administrations. The irony of this is Trump had appointed Krebs as his first CISA director. He actually built the agency. NBC News quoted one CISA employee. It's really tough. It's a really tough time for all of us right now. Every day somehow feels more bizarre than the last. It's incredibly difficult to focus on our mission that's serious. They have a very. They have an important mission.
- [59:10]
B
When he was asked about Krebs, Trump said he gave that line about, oh, I don't think I ever. I don't really know him. I think I met him once maybe, but I don't know. I don't know who he is. It's like, wait, what?
- [59:21]
A
That's.
- [59:21]
B
That's the answer you give to about everyone who you've thrown under the bus.
- [59:25]
D
It's to the point where it's almost a comedic. Like, yeah, you know, that that's gonna happen if it's somebody that he. It looks bad if he knows them, then doesn't know them. And, like, it's just. It's almost like a. Like a joke. At this point.
- [59:41]
A
Krebs acted fairly, honorably. He declined to comment on the eo. He did on Wednesday repost to X the message he published in 2020 after Trump fired him. Honored to serve. We did it right. Defend today, secure tomorrow.
- [59:58]
D
Yep. That's called taking the high road, kids.
- [60:02]
A
Yeah.
- [60:03]
B
And remember when Krebs was doing this in 2020, he didn't say, oh, no, the President is lying. He didn't say, oh, there's so much propaganda. He said, from my scope and the mission that I have been given, we have seen no attacks on the US Election system.
- [60:18]
A
That was it.
- [60:19]
B
That's the thing that hurt Donald Trump's ego, because someone didn't even call him a liar. Just said, no, no, I'm not going along with what you're saying.
- [60:29]
D
Honestly, there's an opportunity for the investigation. Air quotes around investigation to just backfire because, okay, fine, dig into it and find all of the things that he was using to justify his statement. Right. And find, you know, proof that there was, in fact, you know, no interference there or something so negligible that, you know, had no impact, but none of.
- [60:49]
C
That'S ever going to get published. None of that's ever going to get released.
- [60:52]
A
That'll be suppressed.
- [60:53]
B
Yeah, or there will be another EO investigating the people who were doing the investing.
- [60:57]
C
Yes, exactly. Investigations.
- [61:02]
B
It's a Russian doll of nested investigations.
- [61:04]
A
It really is. Trump administration is currently purging CESA's workforce. Emails went out to CESA employees encouraging them to retire early or take a buyout package by tomorrow. A second email sent by the acting director, Bridget Bean, reiterated that offer. Trump has nominated a permanent director, Sean Planky, who's yet to been confirmed by the Senate.
- [61:31]
D
So having having done a couple of decades of government stuff myself, I can say that there's an awful lot of things in place where the way that things work. There's an awful lot of institutional knowledge that gets carried forward to like, as you get new people and then there's turnovers and there's very sort of structured ways to, you know, somebody doesn't just show up in a new role and then the first day they're just doing an amazing job. Like they have to go and learn from all their peers they're sitting next to and figure out how to do, how do all these systems work, how do all these things work? And I mean, I've never been in one of these organizations when just a whole quarter or a third or a half of them were just wiped out. But I just can't even think of the type of like damage that does as far as the institutional knowledge carrying forward works. And also how long does it take to get that back? Because a lot of that knowledge was hard fought. Like people had to make a lot of mistakes along the way to figure out, oh yeah, you can't do that that way. You have to do it this way. This is how it works correctly. And you just, it's almost like you're starting from scratch after you do something like that.
- [62:40]
C
And that's exactly what you're gonna have is starting from scratch. Because a lot of those people, if not most of those people, even if, you know, the administration changed and somebody wanted to hire everybody back, a lot of those people are just, they're not, they've lost their trust, they've lost their faith in, in the, the, the government and in, in the, in the system. And they're not going to want to come back, they're not going to want to be a part of this going forward. Yeah, so, so this is our, our allies no longer. You know, it's going to take decades before they trust us again.
- [63:13]
D
Right. So, so because of all that churn that you caused on the front end, on the back end, all of your best people, well, they're going to go somewhere else. Especially if they were in the government working and you forced them to go over into the civilian side and find work there that they'll get nine times, way more for. Yeah, exactly. Nine times out of ten, that's where the real money is. You know, those people that are working for the government, they were doing it kind of for the same sort of reason why I served in the military. Like, you don't serve in the military. Yeah, you don't serve in the military to make a lot of money. You know, you do it partially because you're trying to do something for the country. Right. And even government workers generally, even though there are some pay grades that are, you know, making decent money there, still don't hold a candle to what you make on, on outside of that sphere. Right. You go into cybersecurity, especially cybersecurity. You go on the outside of the government for cybersecurity, you're making double. Right? And out of those people, when you try on, going back to the back end thing, when you try to rebuild the government agency, if you do actually need a government function for that, for that, whatever that thing is, whatever that purpose is, you're no longer gonna get the best people or even close to it. They're just not going to have, they're not going to bother.
- [64:22]
A
Right.
- [64:23]
D
Because why would I want to go work there when I can go work someplace that actually has their stuff together? Right.
- [64:28]
B
You know, at defcon every year, there's always some sort of presence from the NSA or another intelligence agency trying to recruit people who would be very good at this job. And the way that they try to recruit, recruit them is they acknowledge up front you're not going to make as much as you would as at a private firm, a commercial firm. However, if you've got a passion for defending the country, and that actually worked, that worked in many, many cases.
- [64:54]
D
Right.
- [64:54]
B
You can't make that pitch anymore. If, if you come to DEFCON this coming year and you try to make the pitch, do what's right for your country, you'll get laughed out of the auditorium.
- [65:03]
D
Yeah.
- [65:03]
A
But the good news is we're making shower heads. Great again. And I think, I think that is all that matters. Right?
- [65:16]
D
How many times do you have to flush that toilet, Leo? How many times?
- [65:19]
A
10, 20 times?
- [65:20]
B
Well, it depends how many documents are in it.
- [65:22]
D
Yes, yes.
- [65:24]
B
You need a high flow.
- [65:25]
A
I'M talking about the executive order that Trump put out on Wednesday titled maintaining acceptable water pressure in shower heads. It's something on the campaign trail he complained about toilets, shower heads. I saw a Republican spokesperson on Fox the other day say, finally, your dishwasher is going to really wash dishes. Which I just maybe think that, you.
- [65:52]
C
Know, I, I have not had a problem with my dishwasher getting the dishes clean. And, you know, actually in. Since we bought this house eight years ago, I've replaced, you know, what were almost certainly decades old toilets with modern low flow toilets, and they work so much better. Yeah, those old toilets. Yeah, those were the ones that I. You'd have to flush three or four times. These new ones.
- [66:20]
A
One flush and boom, it's one flush does it all.
- [66:23]
D
To even, to even go down that road about dishwashers in particular is hilarious given that anyone who's watched one or two or half a dozen Technology Connections videos about how dishwashers work, which is, by the way, if you are on YouTube and you want to go down a rat hole for a whole entire afternoon, feel free. Right? But they use just a few gallons of water.
- [66:44]
A
Yep. It's amazing.
- [66:46]
D
Almost. No, yeah, it's amazing how they're able to clean, you know, so it's not, it's not even a flow issue. So where you usually hear the, you know, the complaints from, you know, a person who probably doesn't need to complain about it, but, like, shower heads feel.
- [66:59]
A
Like President Trump has never once loaded a dishwasher. Oh, there's no way.
- [67:03]
C
He's probably never even seen a dishwasher.
- [67:05]
A
I don't even think.
- [67:06]
B
I think it's because he doesn't realize that dishwasher is a machine. He thinks it's actually an immigrant person hired.
- [67:12]
A
It's a guy named Jesus. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's just bizarre. But, you know, anyway, you can only laugh. You can only laugh. What else?
- [67:21]
B
You can kind of track back the genesis of a lot of these really weird eos, probably. He was at Mar a Lago and a guest said, oh, the water pressure is really low in my room.
- [67:30]
C
Right.
- [67:30]
B
And so he said, oh, well, I'll make an EO about it.
- [67:33]
A
He also did an EO on, on LED lights saying they look him. Look. Make him look orange.
- [67:39]
B
No, it's not the lights. Yeah, no, no, I'm sorry, I don't.
- [67:45]
A
Think it's the lights.
- [67:47]
B
You know, that's actually a really good chance for Philips with their Hue series to send a bunch to Trump and say, hey, you can make Yourself any color you want.
- [67:54]
A
I am lit by LEDs right now. In fact, I could use a little more orange. To be honest with you, I'm a little pale. All right, let's play some more videos. This is Christopher. Christopher, go ahead. Hello, Leo and Twit family.
- [68:09]
D
I'm Christopher. I live in Buckinghamshire in the uk. I grew up with you and Twit.
- [68:14]
A
While I was in London and commuting on trains to work every day.
- [68:18]
D
I first discovered the network while standing on an underground platform. I had my iPhone 3GS in my hand and I wondered if what more.
- [68:24]
A
I could do with it.
- [68:26]
D
And I discovered podcasts. And from there I discovered Break Weekly.
- [68:30]
A
I then discovered all the other shows on your network I liked.
- [68:34]
D
Try.
- [68:35]
A
Before you buy one of my favorite deep cuts of yours, please bring it back.
- [68:40]
D
But I'll forever be sad that I.
- [68:42]
A
Never got to visit the studio.
- [68:43]
D
That was on my bucket list whenever.
- [68:45]
A
I go over to the west coast. But I do look forward to the.
- [68:49]
D
Tour that you said you were going to do.
- [68:50]
A
So please make sure you do that.
- [68:52]
D
And come over to the UK and I'll be the first to buy a.
- [68:54]
A
Ticket and I'll be the first in line. Anyway, thanks for everything. Thanks for sharing your knowledge.
- [69:00]
D
Thank you for keeping me company on.
- [69:02]
A
My commutes, my marathon training runs, my cleaning the house, and all the things that you do while you're just consuming.
- [69:09]
D
A podcast on a day by day basis.
- [69:11]
A
You give me inspiration on all of my endeavors and I'll forever be grateful for that.
- [69:16]
D
So take care and I look forward.
- [69:18]
A
To the next 20 years. Thank you. Christopher. Do you remember Know how that was a great show?
- [69:24]
B
Mr. Before you buy, I love you.
- [69:25]
A
And before you buy, you were the host of Know how. You did a great job. Yeah, Yeah.
- [69:31]
D
I just want to piggyback on that. You have no idea how many things I have accomplished while listening to things off the network.
- [69:38]
A
There's the best thing about podcasts. You don't really have to listen to them. You can just have them on in the background.
- [69:43]
C
Both, you know, things I've accomplished and things that I've learned from the various shows. You know, I mean, there are so many things that from listening to conversations that seemingly unrelated to what I do, it's like, oh, that's a good idea. I can use that over here. You know, and there's so much that I've learned that I have applied in my various jobs in my career over the last 20 years. It's, it's, it's been amazing.
- [70:11]
A
Yeah.
- [70:12]
B
Which is Why? I. I don't listen to any of the true crime podcasts because I already know how to successfully murder someone. I don't need.
- [70:18]
A
I don't want to learn that podcast about it. I don't want to learn that. Here's another one. This is Henry. Henry, go ahead.
- [70:24]
B
Hey, Leo and gang, this is Henry from Abbottsford Bridge, Columbia, Canada. Also known by some as the 51st state. Though some of us up here think.
- [70:32]
A
Of that little country down there as the 11th province. I like that idea.
- [70:36]
B
Thought I would give you a quick.
- [70:38]
A
History of my discovery of Twit tv. Oh, before we start. No, that's not a shrine.
- [70:49]
B
So it was the middle of the.
- [70:50]
A
Night In November of 2007, I think it was, and I couldn't sleep. So I got up, turned on tv.
- [71:00]
B
And here was this program called the Lab with Leo Laporte. It was filmed in Vancouver and hosted by a Canadian.
- [71:10]
A
Well, so I thought, you feel full?
- [71:13]
B
Nearly. Good.
- [71:14]
A
Anyway, I was hearing things I'd never heard before on a TV computer show. You know, you're just like, well, here's the latest HP color printer, and yes, it prints in color, but on this particular program, you were talking about all.
- [71:29]
B
Kinds of things that were really interesting.
- [71:31]
A
I'd never heard before.
- [71:33]
B
In fact, I think that was the.
- [71:34]
A
Episode that you had the creator of Ruby on Rails. So I quickly became addicted to that, and then shortly thereafter, it went off the air. So I lost track of Leo for.
- [71:48]
B
A few years and then discovered him at this place called the Twit Cottage. And he was doing podcasts.
- [71:55]
A
Well, you were doing podcasts, so I.
- [71:58]
B
Have been an avid listener ever since.
- [72:00]
A
Followed you to the Brick House and then to these side studios. And where this comes in, these guys is I drove down to the studios.
- [72:15]
B
For what turned out to be the last ever live recording of Twit.
- [72:20]
A
And I have to tell you that not only was that a great experience.
- [72:24]
C
But this is a time where you'd.
- [72:26]
A
Already had to cut back, let some hosts go. Two of them were there that day, Jason and Anthony. And as a testament to the quality.
- [72:35]
C
Of people you are, even though they've.
- [72:39]
B
Been let go, they both showed up.
- [72:41]
A
Jason was on the panel, and Ant.
- [72:42]
B
Was in the background taking pictures, hugging.
- [72:44]
A
People, just having a great time. And that was such a great experience.
- [72:48]
B
Well, for dinner, and it really is a family there.
- [72:51]
A
I'm very impressed with what you have.
- [72:54]
B
Built and continue to, and I just hope it goes on for years and years. You're getting my little contribution every month.
- [73:02]
A
Thank you. In the Club Twit. And I really hope that. Well, is it going to be a.
- [73:10]
B
Competition between you and Steve to see.
- [73:12]
D
Who continues the longest?
- [73:14]
A
Let's not make it a competition.
- [73:16]
B
Oh, yes.
- [73:16]
A
And then I met those. Where is this? I met these two guys who signed.
- [73:21]
B
The pictures and had a good conversation with them.
- [73:26]
A
You're a great bunch.
- [73:27]
B
This is an excellent thing you're doing.
- [73:29]
A
I love it. So keep going. Thanks. Thank you.
- [73:31]
D
You.
- [73:32]
A
And that is not a shrine. I just want to make it clear. Hey, Leo. It's just. It's just a. It's just a shelf with a bunch of twitch stuff on it. That's memorabilia.
- [73:43]
B
It's just memorabilia.
- [73:44]
A
Memorabilia. Hey, we'll have more with our great panel. I'm sorry, guys, you have to put up with all these videos, but I really wanted to honor the listeners, the community around the show because honestly, it's meaningless for us to sit around John if we don't have all these wonderful people listening. And we do our shows live for that very reason. You know that, Robert. We love having a chat room going on and people talking back to us. It's really a lot of fun.
- [74:12]
D
So speaking of old twit related stuff, I don't know if this is actually a connection I can make here, but I was. So I submitted a video kind of quasi as a fan, but I've been on a few shows, but like I submitted a video for one of the anniversary things and I wasn't sure what that was.
- [74:28]
A
I think I remember that, Alan.
- [74:29]
B
Yeah.
- [74:29]
A
Yeah.
- [74:30]
D
Like in my garage there was like a cylinder head behind me and stuff. This was, you know, four houses ago. So I was. I. It wasn't the 10th anniversary show, but I was skimming through the 10th anniversary show just now and there was a segment where you went like years before the 10th anniversary show and you're in your attic.
- [74:48]
A
Yeah.
- [74:48]
D
You know, and you're like somebody showing you a mixer.
- [74:53]
A
I think that was Kevin Rose. I think that was the system.
- [74:55]
D
It might have been Kevin Rose showing you a mixer. Now, I don't know if that mixer direct, like that actual mixer ended up with Ryan at PC Per or not. Maybe it might have.
- [75:07]
A
And in case now you have it. Is it a. Is it. I just thought I would. It is a Mackie.
- [75:12]
D
I just show you your old mixer.
- [75:14]
A
That's the original mixer.
- [75:15]
D
It was in my garage from when we cleaned out the studio. Wow.
- [75:23]
A
You have the. You have more than I do. That's the original.
- [75:28]
D
And there's a.
- [75:31]
A
Light panels. I hope you all have fezes. We'll make you wear those.
- [75:33]
D
Pretty sure. I got some of your light panels in the basement.
- [75:35]
A
You might. You might.
- [75:37]
D
You know, just random stuff.
- [75:38]
A
They've been scattered to the wind. So that mixer, the Mackie mixer, I had, I guess because of radio. I can't remember why I had it, but that's how we were able to start the podcast. And each of the different people had pots and all that stuff. And when it broke, Colleen Henry, who was. Or Colleen Kelly, who was our engineer. Colleen's story is amazing. She came by one day, the cottage. She was studying sociology at San Jose State, and she wanted a job as an intern, even though she was a sociology major. But after I talked to her for a while, said, I'm not going to give you an internship. I'm going to hire you. Would you work for us? And she became our first studio engineer. And when that board broke, she took it down to a little place down in San Francisco where a guy named Burke McQuinn was working, and Burke fixed it. Do you remember this?
- [76:31]
B
Her fault?
- [76:32]
A
Yep. And Burke did such a good job, Colleen came back and said, you know, this guy Burke, he'd be good to have around because he can fix stuff. And Burke is still with us. In fact, he was over here. We invited him over for Easter, which, as most of you know, is next week. But he showed up today, so we got to visit with Burke a little bit. He says, yes, I gave that Mackie Onyx mixer to Ryan. So that is one.
- [77:00]
D
So this is it.
- [77:01]
A
Burke has validated it. You have it now.
- [77:05]
C
So we have the provenance confirmed.
- [77:07]
A
I have the history. Yes. The lineage. Save this video. So if anybody asks, you can say where it came from. That's awesome.
- [77:16]
D
Oh, my goodness. And you know what? I didn't even know. It wasn't until I was skimming the video from the 10th anniversary, and I was like, that's in my garage.
- [77:24]
A
Oh, my God. I can't believe it.
- [77:27]
D
I just ran out there.
- [77:28]
A
You had that all this time?
- [77:30]
D
I can't believe.
- [77:30]
B
There are two things from the brick house that I really missed. The first is the mame cabinet, that really nice arcade cabinet that we used to have.
- [77:37]
A
Oh, I love that name cabinet.
- [77:39]
B
And the other one was the pinball machine.
- [77:41]
A
Yeah, the pinball machine was a gift from. Oh, I forgotten her name. Jerry.
- [77:49]
B
Jerry.
- [77:49]
D
Oh, Jerry Ellsworth.
- [77:51]
A
Ellsworth. That's it. Jerry Ellsworth was who, among other things, repaired pinball machines. She gave us that. Somebody took that when we moved out of the brick house. And Somebody also took the main cabinet, which was a gift from a. I.
- [78:04]
B
Know who has the main cabinet.
- [78:05]
A
Oh, and, and Jerry Ellsworth made that. The comedy.
- [78:07]
D
She worked on this. Yeah, she worked on the Commodore 64 built.
- [78:10]
A
She told you that there's a back door in there. You get a whole Commodore BASIC out of that. Did you know that?
- [78:15]
B
Yeah.
- [78:16]
D
Well, it's got, if you open it up, it has like solder pads for all the other peripherals.
- [78:20]
A
She did that. She said I was, I wasn't going to build that without putting a whole comet there. Let's take a little break. We will have a lot more, more, more reminiscences. It's a clip show. We should be sitting on a couch. But anyway, and more visits from our great listeners. In fact, Joe Esposito is coming up in just a minute. This episode of this Week in Tech brought to you by a great, relatively new sponsor, but a really good one. They're all good, Love them all. Threat Locker. Threat Locker though, I love because it is a very affordable way to do Endpoint security. In particular Zero trust Endpoint security, which is the gold standard for protecting your business. Ransomware is running rampant. Just watch security now. Phishing emails, infected downloads, malicious websites, RDP exploits. Don't be the next victim. There's a, we were showing on security. Now there's a website where you can see day by day ransomware text. There's usually a dozen companies on there. Sometimes companies you know well that are getting bit. You don't want to be on that wall of shame. Fortunately, Threat Locker's zero trust platform takes a proactive and this is the key deny by default approach. That's zero trust. It blocks every unauthorized action, protecting you from both known and completely unknown zero day out of nowhere threats trusted by global enterprises like JetBlue and you know, places that are vital to the supply chain like port. The Port of Vancouver, good example. They use Threat Locker because they cannot afford to be down. And how often do we hear about ports being attacked by ransomware gangs? Port of Vancouver doesn't worry about it. Threat Locker shields them from zero day exploits from supply chain attacks. And I love this, provides complete audit trails for compliance. So it's a great choice for compliance as well. Threat Locker's innovative ring fencing technology isolates critical applications from weaponization. It stops ransomware and it limits lateral movement within your network. You don't want people just using apps willy nilly. It works across all industries, supports Mac environments. You'll love that as well as PCs and they have 24. 7 US based support, you get complete comprehensive visibility and control. Here's a testimonial from Mark Tolson. He's the IT Director for the city of Champaign, Illinois. Another critical supplier. A city, right. They're under attack all the time. Schools, cities, ports. Mark says, quote, threat Locker provides that extra key to block anomalies that nothing else can do. If bad actors got in and tried to execute something, I can take comfort in knowing Threat Locker will stop that. That's what you want. Stop worrying about cyber threats. Get unprecedented protection quickly, easily and cost effectively with threat locker. Visit threatlocker.com twit to get a free 30 day trial and learn more about how ThreatLocker can help mitigate unknown threats and ensure compliance. Threatlocker.com twit we thank them so much for their support of this week in tech. And you support us when you go to that address. That way they know you saw it here. Threatlocker.com/twit One of my favorite people in our club, Twit. And I know you've seen his illustrations, his, his very, his very cool pictures is Joe Esposito. He is a graphic designer and he sent us this video. Joe, hey Leo and everybody who works at Twit. This is the video about how I found Twit and what Twitt has meant to me. Kind of per your request. And like a lot of people I think that the first experience I had of Twit wasn't really Twit, it was tech tv. I Tech TV wasn't from the very beginning. I, I found it right around the time that the new set was in place. I remember the new set was kind of a big deal so I don't know what year that would have been. But I know Patrick was the co host and I know there that the new set had just come into place. And it was a really neat channel because there wasn't a lot like that that I remember on television at all. Something where you know, it was a.
- [82:42]
B
Lot of the kind of geek interests.
- [82:44]
A
That of course now you can find everywhere.
- [82:45]
B
But at the time it was something.
- [82:46]
A
Special and it's whole channel. I remember there was just lots of really neat stuff on that channel and it almost felt like a custom tailored television channel for me. And so I became a fan then and I remember in probably it was 04 now it was, it was in 2004 I had come out to see my, who eventually would become my wife. And one of the priorities I had was I want to see A taping of the screensaver. So I got to actually go to the. I think it was at that point, point G4 had already acquired it, so it was whatever the studios were called. But I went to the show and got to meet you and Patrick. And I remember the show was one.
- [83:23]
B
Of the segments was about slide rulers.
- [83:25]
A
Which I thought was kind of funny. Came to a show that's basically about cutting edge tech. And the episode I got to see was about slide ruler. Still a great show, but it was just kind of one of those irony things where it's like, oh, okay, cutting edge computers and slide rulers. All right, this is what the episode's going to be. And then at the time, you hadn't announced that you were leaving the network, but it was not too long afterwards that you had said you were departing. And so I think, like a lot of people, I thought, well, that's it. I mean, I don't know when I'm gonna hear his voice again, when I'm gonna see this type of content again. Maybe he never will. And then, of course, Revenge of the Screensavers, which then became Twit, started up. I got to go to one of the early live reunion things. I don't know if it was an official episode or not. I want to say it was in the back of an Apple Store. I remember Patrick Norton was there because I helped clean up cables, and I talked to him about.
- [84:14]
B
About kind of being from the East Coast a little bit, but it was.
- [84:16]
A
I remember there were a lot of people, I think when I say Dvorak was there, and a number of others. And like I said, I think it was in an Apple Store. And then I remember Twitch started up and started getting going. And one of the things that you kept saying was that podcasting was something that everybody could have a voice in. And that really struck a chord with me. And so a year after the first couple episodes of Twin, I started my own show. And I'm sorry, Stilling doing it. Next year will be the 20th anniversary of our show. Not anywhere near as good as anything that's on Twitter and probably never will be. But honestly, Twit has been part of my life now for so long that it's really hard to imagine it not being around. So I'm really happy that the. The club has. Has been able to kind of keep the network from going off air. I actually got to go. Not only the original Brick House, I had a brick in the Brick House.
- [85:06]
B
I got to go to the east side studio.
- [85:07]
A
Got to go to the second to last show, which was kind of a sad thing, but I think it's worked out very well. I think the. The move to all online, that's the new studio Seamless. I mean, there's been no impact on anything. The quality is still just as good.
- [85:18]
B
It's just in a different setting.
- [85:20]
A
So, yeah, anybody who is watching this, if you're not part of the club, you should be because just like so many things. Thank you. Creators can only exist with your support and you know, you've seen, seen what's going on with everything. The only way to really keep something around if you care about it, is to support it. So I'm really happy that there's a way for me to support Twit directly. I want to thank you for all the years and everybody be in front behind the camera. It's the personalities, but it's also the people who put the shows together. It's just been, again, such a foundational part of my life. I'm thrilled that everybody's still around. I'm thrilled that Twitter's still going strong and I hope it only gets better. Better with age. Just like. Well, I don't drink wine, but that's what I hear. Like a fine wine. So thank you for everything and I'm looking forward to many more years of everything I've enjoyed so far. Thank you, Joe, and thanks for all the great illustrations. I gotta play one more. You saw the video Guy on a boat. I have heard from people a number of times that they watch while they're driving combine harvesters. This one is Johannes from Austria. Hello, Tweet crew. This is Hannes from Austria. This is how I have been listening to a lot of Twitch podcasts over the year. He's driving a. A combine harvester or something.
- [86:43]
C
I don't know.
- [86:44]
B
Club member and listener since 2000.
- [86:48]
A
He's driving a tractor. Anyway, 14. Bye. Bye, Hannes. Thank you. It's so great to know you.
- [86:56]
B
It was a Kabuto. A Kabuto tractor. It's definitely not a John Deere.
- [86:59]
A
No, it was. Yeah, it was a Kabuto or something. Like. Yeah, it was really cute. And he had behind it, he was towing some sort of wheat thresher. I don't know what he was doing. Maybe he was cutting the wheat or something. Maybe he's just mowing the lawn. I don't know. Anyway, it's really nice to have all of these wonderful people watching the show and it's great to have you guys on the show. You probably didn't realize when you, you came here that it was going to be such a, kind of a different episode. But I appreciate your patience. It's fun to see.
- [87:28]
B
I started as a fan from back in the tech TV days. I went to an episode taping with you and Patrick Norton when Patrick was showing us how to make a cantina out of a Pringles can.
- [87:39]
A
That's right, that's right, that's right.
- [87:40]
B
And it was new for me because remember before that there really wasn't intelligent tech stuff. It was always a segment on another show. And so you had this network dedicated to technology, technology and, and science and stories that I actually cared about. I, yeah, it changed my life.
- [87:57]
A
Yeah, it's been a lot of fun. I feel very fortunate. By the way, SC Homestead in our YouTube chat says that is a disc arrow. He's plowing the fields for the next crop. And by the way, it looked like he wasn't driving the wheel. Was.
- [88:12]
C
A lot of, A lot of modern tractors have automated driving capabilities now. Yeah. Primarily using gps. You, because it's, you're, it's, it's part of what they call precision agriculture.
- [88:25]
A
Right.
- [88:26]
C
So they can more precisely know exactly where they're planting, how much, how many seeds they're planting, and get just the right density of plants in there.
- [88:36]
A
Do they use AI in or is it.
- [88:38]
C
I mean, they're starting to, you know, some of the, the early ones, you know, didn't really use that, but yeah, they're, they're starting to incorporate that. Certainly, you know, Deer has been a leader in this space. They've done a lot of interesting work with automation and agricultural equipment.
- [88:58]
A
I wish I could find it. Somebody some years ago sent me a video of him and his combine and it was like a living room. The whole thing was completely automated and it was a house sized farming thing. And he says, I don't really have much to do as we ride up and down in this thing. So. Thank you for the podcast guests. It's pretty amazing what they, I mean.
- [89:23]
C
The last, at least the last two or three years, Deere has had a huge booth in the west hall at CES and you know, they have these giant tractors in there. Most of them are, you know, have automated driving capabilities and, and I said all this precision agriculture capability both for plowing and, and, and seeding and harvesting and they, there's. I'm not sure if Deere has this, but there are companies that have developed stuff where, you know, as they go through the field, as, as the vehicle drives through the field, they're using AI and vision systems to look for weeds and then using lasers to zap the weeds.
- [90:08]
A
Yeah, yeah. It's amazing.
- [90:10]
C
That way they can dramatically reduce the amount of, of pesticides that they need because they're, they're literally just zapping the weeds as they go.
- [90:20]
B
Here is, this is the deer booth at ces.
- [90:23]
A
Yeah. Here's the giant harvester that we were talking about. And the guy, the operator really is there just to. Padre.
- [90:30]
C
You have the one with the, the big triangular tracks on it.
- [90:33]
D
Yeah, Padre.
- [90:34]
A
Oh, there you go. Look at that.
- [90:35]
B
See, trying to.
- [90:36]
C
Wow. I think I've got.
- [90:38]
B
Oh, this was my favorite. I love this big.
- [90:40]
C
Oh, yeah, the big dump truck. The Caterpillar mining truck. This was actually one of the first commercial applications of automated driving technology that came out of the DARPA Grand Challenge program. So after the DARPA Grand Challenge concluded in 2007, a couple of the leaders of that program, Chris Urmson and Brian Stahleski. Chris was the overall team leader from Carnegie Mellon that won the DARPA urban challenge in 07. And Brian led the software effort on that work with, with Caterpillar and worked on deploying automated driving systems for these giant mine trucks because it's, they're so difficult to drive and it's very dangerous. And Chris stayed there, I think about a year, year and a half, and then moved over to join Google to start the Google self driving car project, which is now Waymo.
- [91:42]
A
And I thought Brian said it familiar. That's interesting.
- [91:46]
C
Brian stayed another year or so to complete the project at Caterpillar. These were first deployed commercially in 2013. There are about 550 of these trucks, these autonomous mining trucks in service now on three continents around the world.
- [92:05]
A
Do you remember in the early days of the DARPA Grand Challenge, the cars would go six feet and go right off the.
- [92:11]
C
Yep.
- [92:12]
A
We used to watch it and laugh and say, oh, you're never going to get these things to work. And that's. I always remember that when people say, oh, we'll never have full. You've said it yourself, we'll never have full self driving. We'll never have artificial superintelligence. You know, things. I never thought we'd have a, you know, four terabyte hard drive things. Technology has a way of surprising you sometimes. Sam has famously said, though, they'll never be a level 5 full self driving vehicle.
- [92:43]
C
And I still, I still stand by that. I think it's very unlikely that we will get to a system that can operate fully unsupervised in all conditions. Yeah.
- [92:57]
A
No, I think, Alan, it was right around the year 2000 where I said by the year 2020 we won't have spinning hard drives anymore. We'll have memory cubes. We with. I mean, hard drives have survived and thrived much farther than we ever thought they would. And they're much denser than we ever thought they. What are the largest hard drives now? Spinning drives.
- [93:23]
D
24 now, I think roughly.
- [93:25]
A
Yeah. And petabytes are on the way. How about SSDs? Are they competitive?
- [93:30]
D
Solidyne makes 122terabyte. SSD.
- [93:34]
A
122Terabyte. Unbelievable.
- [93:37]
D
Unbelievable. It's a two and a half inch form factor. It's like this. It's like this size.
- [93:42]
B
That's one of my pet peeves about science fiction shows. TVs. TV shows and movies that they set the future date that someone traveling back in time from.
- [93:52]
A
Right.
- [93:52]
B
Way too soon.
- [93:53]
A
It never makes sense to 2049.
- [93:55]
B
Wait, you're telling me they invented time travel by 2049 or, or 2001?
- [94:00]
A
No.
- [94:00]
B
Come on, go further out. A couple thousand.
- [94:03]
A
Well, you might need one of those petabyte drives if you use Microsoft recall to keep track of everything you do on the. On the computer. Recall is finally coming out with a release preview. I can't. You know, they announced this when ages ago.
- [94:24]
D
That first announcement didn't go too well.
- [94:26]
A
They announced it in, I think it was almost a year ago. People said what? You're what? That's a security nightmare. They backpedaled and then, you know, they said, well, we're going to delay it. They, they restated the security goals. Some have said that they. I think Paul Thurada said this is what they had originally said, but they weren't. So we're so unclear about it that people thought it was really a security nightmare. Well, finally they had planned to launch in October, that got pushed back. Now they're going to put it out for the insiders in the release preview channel. According to blog post on Thursday. How do you feel about recall?
- [95:11]
D
I like the idea of it if it's local.
- [95:13]
B
Yeah.
- [95:13]
A
But see to me, if it's. It's most useful if it's not local, if it's on every device you have. Right. Who cares if this one computer knows what you did? That's why I carry this thing around.
- [95:27]
D
Yeah.
- [95:28]
A
The little AI device. I've showed it many times. It's called a bee that is recording all the time and then makes summaries and notes for me at the End of the day ideally an AI should have every bit of information but.
- [95:42]
D
Yeah, well I mean I'm talking like you know by local I mean private to you know, within your own sphere of devices. Not just Microsoft has all you want it on multiple.
- [95:54]
C
I mean we all use multiple devices and you want to be able to.
- [95:56]
A
Well recall as it stands is only on that one computer. Right. It does not cross device lines and I think that it's safe to say it is private. Although security experts worry that it is, you know, a treasure trove for hackers if they could get in.
- [96:15]
D
Correct. Yeah. The better the AI makes things for you to find your own stuff more easily and index all of your own things. The also better if somebody gets in it's not supposed to be in. They can't could just easily find all your stuff.
- [96:28]
A
Robert, are you slathering at the jobs? I am not.
- [96:33]
B
We are currently planning our Windows migration strategy because we've got a large chunk of the organization that does not want to go to 11.
- [96:42]
A
So what are you going to migrate to?
- [96:44]
B
So we've already started switching off some of the most critical infrastructure to Linux. We do not want to go to Apple.
- [96:52]
A
Wow.
- [96:52]
B
There's a couple of services that are stubborn. We don't have good analogs yet. Yet but. And it's not about recall actually I, I find the feature interesting. It is an interesting set of functionalities that get added to Windows. But we've been so put off by the Windows 11 experience, especially at the enterprise level that we just, we don't.
- [97:14]
A
See ourselves come October, Microsoft says Windows 10 users will no longer get support. You've got to go to Windows 11.
- [97:20]
B
They'll expand, they'll extend that. They will extend that.
- [97:24]
A
Yeah, they have in the past.
- [97:25]
D
It's still, I think it's still greater than 80% of everything it's increased.
- [97:31]
B
Windows 10 has increased from the last metric. So people are getting really upset with a lot and part of it is just they don't want to be force fed a lot of changes that they didn't ask for. And it seems like with every release 11 adds something. You're like why'd you do that? Or why did you take that away? This functionality that, that's, that's just silly. So recal would actually be one of the reasons I would stay just to see how it works. It is an interesting idea. I'm with Alan. I've got a lot of privacy concerns, especially with you centralizing my data and allowing an AI to prioritize what is important right But I mean it's. For me, operating systems are now like TVs. I'm so done with smart TVs. Give me something that's solid, that works, that is stable, that is secure and I'm, I'll be happy with that OS for the next 20 years.
- [98:22]
A
Yeah, but then how are they going.
- [98:23]
C
To make money off you? In perpetuity.
- [98:25]
A
Right?
- [98:26]
B
Yeah.
- [98:27]
A
This is what Microsoft says in the release notes. To use recall, you'll need to opt in. That's good. Originally was opt out. You'll need to opt in to saving snapshots, which are images of your activity. The AIs. And they use various AIs to analyze those snapshots to extract the information from them. You'll also have to enroll in Windows hello to confirm your presence and that's for security so that only you can access those snapshots. Microsoft says you're always in control of what snapshots are saved and can pause saving snapshots at any time. As you use your Copilot Plus PC throughout the day, working on documents or presentations, taking video calls and contexts, switching across activities. Recall will take regular snapshots and help you find things faster and easier. There was concern about it taking snapshots of your credit cards. I don't, you know, in theory I think they say, oh, we're not going to do that. But how will they know without looking at it? They're going to take a picture of.
- [99:30]
D
Just seems, it just seems wasteful to me generally because they're talking about saving a bunch of screenshots. But that's the most like low tech way to do it. Like, I mean you have. If you want to know where you want on your browser, you can. Chrome has, Chrome browser has history of all the URLs you want to. It's all just. You can distill it. What would be, you know, potentially terabytes worth of screenshots into just like a few kilobytes worth of just.
- [99:54]
A
I think that's the theory. I don't. Do they preserve the screenshot? I don't know. Or after they analyze it? I think that. I don't know.
- [100:00]
D
I would hope, I would hope that it, you know, ingests the screenshot and then just takes what it needs from it and then it just goes away because otherwise it's just going to be a space hog.
- [100:08]
A
I do remember them talking about this storage used and it wasn't vast, but I can't remember the exact details. You do have to have a Copilot Plus PC, which is the new standard for PCs. At least 40 tops in the Neural Processing Unit. 16 gigs of RAM, 8 logical processors. To use recall, you'll need at least 50 gigs of storage space free.
- [100:39]
D
Okay.
- [100:40]
A
Saving snapshots automatically pauses once the device has less than 25 gigs left. You have to use BitLocker or device encryption, obviously, to protect yourself. And you have to enroll in Windows. Hello, As I mentioned, to verify your identity. It's interesting. Well, I'm very curious. We shall see.
- [101:00]
B
You know, one of the things that was drilled into me from the time that I started was having good archiving processes. So over the last 30 years, I have a set of, of descriptors that I put on every file and project that I ever created.
- [101:14]
A
Smart.
- [101:15]
B
It makes it possible that's very. To go back by date or topic. Yeah, it's disciplined. So basically, Recall says, no, don't do that. I'll do that for you.
- [101:22]
A
Right.
- [101:23]
B
So if, if you haven't done what I've done, then Recall could be very.
- [101:27]
A
The same thing here. In fact, even though AI is yet to be useful enough so that the stuff captured by this BE is super useful to me, it is capturing and saving all the time. And I'm hoping as years go by, I will now have a kind of a database of things that I've said and done and agreed to and other people have told me and so forth. It's recording my piano lessons, it's recording shows, it's recording everything. I'm hoping that that will become more and more useful down the road. It's kind of an investment in the future.
- [101:56]
C
Is that, is it saving all of that to BE's servers or to your own?
- [102:02]
A
Exfiltrating this. Okay, so we, I, I interviewed his most intimate conversations on our show machines. So what it does is this is really just a microphone which sends to the iPhone, which does send it to an unnamed. He said the, the founder said it's some commercial AIs and some of our own. So he wouldn't say which AIs they use. And I think it's probably moving around quite a bit. Sends it out to them. Deletes the, the recording, though. Okay, so the recording is deleted after it's analyzed.
- [102:34]
D
Yeah, so it just transcribes and saves.
- [102:37]
A
Transcribes and then extracts. So I do have transcriptions of the most recent conversations that I can identify. Speakers, but not of the past.
- [102:48]
D
I don't think the thing that I'm kind of waiting for, like I'm a digital pack rat, much like Padre is I've tried to be as good as I can within reason and within like, you know, not to go too crazy to where it's diminishing returns, but I try to somewhat organize things, but I'm kind of holding out for the local AI for the models you can run on your own hardware to get good enough to where you basically have, you know, the movie her available locally.
- [103:16]
A
That's what I want.
- [103:16]
D
Right, and you can just, hey, go through all my stuff.
- [103:19]
A
Exactly.
- [103:20]
D
I need you to organize all these things, figure out, you know, index everything so that if I just want to ask, hey, where's that picture when I was, you know, in the Twitch studio video that I had. Show me all those pictures.
- [103:30]
A
Yeah, we've been doing that today. People have been pulling up, you know, old images. I would like to say where was I on December 20, 2012? I'd love to be able to ask that. It's almost like a diary of your. It also keeps track of your agreements. So I have a to do list. It generates a proposed to do list which you can then say, yeah, yeah, keep that one. No, no, I'm not gonna do that. And, and so it's really nice to keep track of your agreements. I like the idea anyway. I think recall is a good idea. I understand the security concerns. This is the problem.
- [104:00]
D
I mean I've been doing, you know, somewhat low tech version of the AI thing just out of necessity, you know, even though it's not actually AI but you know, I try to make sure all the pictures or the file names are actually like the date and time of the picture for example and things might be sort of sorted into folders loosely. But I mean there are some tools you don't necessarily have to have AI to have really good ability to find all your stuff. Like there's a, there's a tool called Void Tool Tools is the company that are not company but the guy has a thing called Void Tools. There's a thing just called search everything. Right, right. And it's just a program. It indexes all your stuff even if it's on a remote like network.
- [104:35]
A
It's been long been a dream of technology. You've got all this stuff digitally, you should be able to do that.
- [104:41]
D
Right.
- [104:42]
B
Where I would use it is if you had something that was smart enough to go through the literally tens of thousands of hours of footage I had have and giving me meta descriptors of conversations and scenes. That's, that's where I actually could use help.
- [104:57]
A
I could beat you on that. You want to hear some twitch stats that have been compiled.
- [105:02]
D
Oh, boy.
- [105:03]
A
By our esteemed team? There have been 10, 30 episodes. Obviously, the first episode where any video exists is number 24. The longest episode, which was from 2018. Episode 699. It was a best of those. This doesn't count. Almost 4 hours, 3 hours, 56 minutes. The longest non best of was from 2022. Was called the whole Internet burrito, and it was 3 hours, 36 minutes. We might beat that today. I don't know. The shortest episode. Introducing IPAC. Is that the Compaq IPAC? It was 2006. It was before the iPhone.
- [105:46]
B
Oh, my God.
- [105:46]
C
That sounds about the right. That sounds about the right time frame.
- [105:49]
A
IPA. Thank you. It was 24 minutes long. Average episode length. It's been getting longer, but if you include the older ones, two hours, three minutes. If you wanted to listen to every episode of Twit, it would take you 88 days, 9 hours, 31 minutes, and 59 seconds.
- [106:07]
D
With no sleep.
- [106:08]
A
With no sleep, constantly listen. Not here or here. Not listen. Whatever.
- [106:16]
B
I spell a challenge.
- [106:17]
A
You don't have to process it. So anyway, it's been a long and a crazy trip and a lot of fun, and I really thank all of the people who have been part of this. You'll see, as I said, a scroll of all the people who've ever been on Twitter as contributors. I couldn't. I wish I could. I tried. We don't have a record of everybody who's ever been on the staff. There's so many people that I would love to thank. People like, as I mentioned, Colleen Kelly, our first studio manager, John Slanina, our last studio manager, Burke McQuinn, has been with us almost since the beginning. Of course, my wife Lisa, who's been the CEO and our executive producer since 2015. There's so many. I don't want to leave people out. There's so many great people, so many editors. Of course, our current team is wonderful. There is a crawl at the end of the show where you can see the current people. I just couldn't get all the names of the people who have worked at twit, but there have been so many. And I thank you, each and every one of you. You want to see another? Let's do one. One more video. I know I'm really slowing the show down. I apologize. But people were nice.
- [107:23]
B
I love these.
- [107:24]
A
Here's a guy in a fez. Hi, Leo.
- [107:27]
C
And all the Twit family.
- [107:28]
A
Congratulations on 20 years. That's how long I'VE been listening. I started on a Palm Treo and I went to the Nokia N95. You brought every one of them in between. There was a whole bunch of others, of course.
- [107:41]
C
Your Nexus One with the Rolly Ball.
- [107:43]
A
I love that first Android phone, Pixel 1 1. Lots of others in between obviously.
- [107:50]
C
And now I listen on an LG.
- [107:52]
A
V40 because it has a really good DAC and. Yeah, anyway, so 20 years. Good one. Thanks. Thank you for wearing a fez.
- [108:04]
B
I love that he wanted a phone with a good dac. You don't hear that anymore.
- [108:08]
A
No. And that LG has like a really excellent high res DAC in it. So I understand why he listens. Thank you Mark. I appreciate that. That was a great video.
- [108:17]
B
You know Leo, that reminds me of those days we would have at the Brick House where a box of Leo's stuff would just show up. Just old gadgets.
- [108:25]
A
Leo's Garage Sale we called him and I would just put him in the conference room and I would just say have at it. And people. I was always afraid there'd be knifings, but no, it always worked out. Towards the end end we had people put colored stickers on it and then you know, we figured out a way to allocate it because as. As we got closer to leaving the studio, the, the goods that were put on that table appreciated considerably in value. A lot of computers.
- [108:53]
B
It helped that we had such a diversity of people in the Brick house that we all wanted different stuff. Like some of us were just interested in historical tech items. Other people wanted tech items they could actually use.
- [109:05]
A
Well. And let's not forget the no Hole. Oh, I love that.
- [109:11]
B
I miss that place so much.
- [109:13]
A
In the old Brick House it was huge. It was 10,000 square feet on the main floor where the studio was. But there was also a 10,000 square foot basement which we didn't even have to pay rent for because the ceiling was so low that you would hit your head on the sprinkler pipes. So they couldn't rent it to us. But we had it and we filled it up and it was the home for many years of something I knew nothing about. I found out after the fact that you and others had built. What was the no Hole?
- [109:46]
B
The no hole was a space that we had hidden behind racks and, and the cage so you couldn't really see it. And it had workstations that had a fridge with alcohol and, and non alcoholic.
- [110:00]
A
You had a bar down there?
- [110:01]
B
We had a bar down there. We had all the quadcopt. A nice Very nice beanbag. The arcade machine. So it was a place for us to retreat between shows. It was quite nice.
- [110:13]
A
But you kept it a secret.
- [110:16]
B
I mean, it was an open secret. We never tried to hide it. We just didn't talk about it unless we were in the know.
- [110:21]
A
I knew. Knew nothing about it. And that was. That was you. But it was also your. Your two.
- [110:28]
B
Brian.
- [110:28]
A
Brian and Burke. Yeah, Brian and Burke. Brian and his brother both worked for us. They were wonderful. I just saw Brian the other day. He's working somewhere good. Facebook. I can't remember.
- [110:41]
B
He was at Google for a while, then Facebook for a while, and now he is moved on. He just told me. I can't remember.
- [110:47]
A
Yeah, he mentioned it. Jammer B is in our chat. Our longtime studio engineer, Jammer B. You knew about the no hole, right? Right. Okay.
- [110:57]
B
Chamber being. Knew about everything going on in that.
- [110:59]
A
Burke says he threw sharp things at you down there, padre.
- [111:02]
B
Burke did not. At first. At first, Burke did not like us down there because we were intruding on his space. That was his domain, his space.
- [111:11]
C
Because that's where all the wiring was from the cameras to the tr.
- [111:14]
A
Well. And the server room was there. We. We actually built it, you know, a room around where all the servers were. Because. Because the way the studio is set up, all the sets were around the perimeter and there was a desk in the middle with all the switches and the turret, the boards. And this is John's idea was brilliant. It rotated so it could aim at whatever set. So the technical director was sitting in his turret and was looking at the show. So it could rotate around 360. Well, it couldn't do. You couldn't rotate it twice. It would stop in the race.
- [111:47]
B
It would start snapping cables if you went twice.
- [111:49]
A
Yeah, because all of the. The devices in that turret had went down through a hole in the middle of the floor to the server room. So there were big cables going down. And all the work was being done in the basement.
- [112:02]
D
In the server room, in the overhead of the basement, there were just bundles of network cables.
- [112:08]
A
Oh, beautifully done too. Yeah.
- [112:10]
B
Oh, and by the way, we got a big upgrade to the know hole when Pixel core moved out, because we took their cage. We took the entire pixel core.
- [112:17]
A
You took the cage.
- [112:18]
B
That became our play. And we got a couch down there. We got carpeting down there. It was fantastic.
- [112:23]
A
So. So it was such a big area. We rented some of it to Alex Lindsay and his Pixel Core. In fact, we rented a bunch of the studio as well to him. And he put up Fencing. He put up cyclone fencing around it to protect it because there was valuables in there. So when they left, you just. You broke in and you took that space as well, huh?
- [112:39]
B
Oh, yeah, yeah, of course. Are you kidding? Do you understand we used to have quadcopter races underneath the studio? Studio.
- [112:47]
A
Wow.
- [112:48]
B
That was. That's how big the thing was.
- [112:50]
A
It was huge. I used to race my bicycle around under there.
- [112:52]
B
Oh, yeah.
- [112:53]
A
Before we built it out when we first moved in. All right, one more video. This is Nathaniel. Let me click the link. Hello, Leah Laporte. My name is Nate Abbott and I live in Gilmanton Ironworks, New Hampshire. And I discovered you in 2005.
- [113:09]
B
I thought I'd share a funny story.
- [113:12]
A
From way back then, and I don't.
- [113:14]
B
Know if you remember that this, but I believe I was researching what TWIT was and I went searching and found.
- [113:22]
A
A post from you looking for your. Your Twit broadcasters that week. And apparently people weren't getting back to you and you thought you would just go to the beach, and I was probably desperate. It sounded like a bad day for you. I think ultimately you got that episode together and people came together and. And TWIT carried on, but that's how.
- [113:43]
D
Sketchy it was back then.
- [113:45]
A
And it's amazing to me what you.
- [113:47]
D
Were able to do.
- [113:48]
A
I think it's hard for me to express actually, what it's meant to be moved up here.
- [113:54]
B
In 1998, started an MSP business. Back then it was just a reseller business and tech services.
- [114:01]
A
And really 90% of the time in the car when I'm driving, I am listening to TWiT. It's just been invaluable to me.
- [114:10]
B
Also security now, in particular.
- [114:13]
A
Yet Steve Gibson has meant a lot. I remember being ahead of the Blaster worm.
- [114:18]
B
I didn't have any servers working as firewalls, which, if you remember back in.
- [114:22]
D
Those days, there were a lot of.
- [114:24]
B
Windows, small business servers that were sitting on their rear end, so to speak.
- [114:31]
A
Hanging out on the Internet. And Blaster just went wild. I used to listen to Buzz out.
- [114:36]
B
Loud, and I can recall how CNET.
- [114:40]
A
Couldn'T seem to sell an ad on that show while you were selling ads every single week on TWIT and you were building your portfolio of video and audio shows. I've been absolutely devoted to TWIT that whole entire time since then till now.
- [114:57]
B
I just want to give thanks to.
- [115:00]
A
First of all, to you, because it's meant a lot to me to have.
- [115:04]
B
You there every week, essentially.
- [115:05]
A
Ringleading a tech talk that, that I can't have with anybody here where I live except one or two people in.
- [115:11]
B
Particular, Mike Elgin, who I just want to mention taking over in the place.
- [115:16]
A
Of the great Tom Merritt. When he left, Mike was in a tough spot and he handled it like, like he was born for it. And I still love to listen to Mike Elgin and I'm kind of dying.
- [115:27]
B
To go on one of his trips.
- [115:28]
A
Renee Richie, Ian Thompson, R Abrar Arheedi, Amy Webb, Jason Calacanis, Stacy Higginbotham, Paris Martineau, Aunt Pruitt, Jason Howell and the great John C. Dvorak, who I recall.
- [115:43]
B
From those early days. Kevin Rose obviously become a legend at this point.
- [115:50]
A
It's quite a circle you've created there and I really have to salute you for the work that you've done and what you. The un.
- [115:56]
B
Unique and unmatchable thing that you've created there for us. And I appreciate it just more than I can say.
- [116:05]
A
So congratulations on 20 years of twit. Who would have thunk? Oh, and one last thing. Congratulations to you for highlighting women who.
- [116:18]
B
Are excellent in the tech industry and.
- [116:22]
A
And getting them on your show just about every week. I really think you've made a difference for a lot of people who might.
- [116:31]
B
Have thought, eh, I'm not sure it or tech or computers are for me.
- [116:37]
A
Because I'm a woman and it seems.
- [116:39]
B
Like a pretty male place.
- [116:42]
A
And I have actually someone I've met recently who is struggling with that very thing.
- [116:47]
B
So you're doing great things in the.
- [116:49]
A
World and thank you again for 20 years. Thank you.
- [116:52]
D
Take care, Leo.
- [116:53]
A
Thank you. Thank you, Nate. I appreciate it. Yeah, we've been all about diversity, equity and inclusion since before it was trendy. And now that it's no longer trendy, we're still all about diversity, equity and inclusion because it's a big tent. It's a big tent and we love getting as many people as possible possible into the tent. So that's very kind of you. Thank you, Nate. I appreciate it. We're gonna take a break, come back with more. Yes. There's some more tech news.
- [117:23]
C
Before you do, Leo, I, I need, I need to get out of here in a couple.
- [117:28]
A
Oh yes, you told me. You're gonna have to leave. So let's say goodbye to Sam. It's great that you could be here for the first half of this 14 hour show.
- [117:36]
C
And if you're still going when I get back, I will jump back in.
- [117:39]
A
Yeah, we might be.
- [117:40]
B
Be.
- [117:40]
A
Who knows? We still. I'm only halfway through the videos. Thank you, Sam. It's great to see you, Sam. Absam. His podcast Wheel Bearings, is at Wheel Bearings Media. Great show. If you're a car nut, you gotta. You gotta listen and watch. And of course, CEO is now an analyst. We didn't get to the guidehouse story. We'll save that for next time.
- [117:57]
C
Yeah, we'll do that another time. But. But yeah, thanks. Thanks so much for, you know, bringing me in as. As part of the. The expanded, the extended twit family. It's been great to interact with you and the rest of the team and all the other participants and all. All the shows over the last, you know, decade or more, you know, that I've been actively participating in it and. And.
- [118:21]
A
And appreciate it.
- [118:21]
C
Like I said, I've learned so much about this, you know, about. About so many things from the different shows. So, yeah, just thanks and. And keep it going as long as you can.
- [118:33]
A
I will. All right. As long as my brain doesn't give out, my voice doesn't give out, and we still have somebody to listen, I'll be here. I want to honor all these great listeners and viewers. Thank you, Sam.
- [118:45]
C
All right, thanks, everyone.
- [118:46]
A
Take care.
- [118:46]
B
Take care, Sam.
- [118:47]
A
There was that day when we actually had a studio, a big, giant movie p studio in. In the Marin. I think Alex Lindsay arranged it for us and nobody showed up. That's.
- [119:03]
B
That's always. That's a nightmare scenario that you throw a party and no one comes.
- [119:07]
A
I think that's the only time that I can remember that we didn't do a show, because, I mean, if nobody showed up, I really couldn't do it. I think there was one time where we ended up doing the show with our audience, with our listeners. That was fun. But I don't think. I think we've only missed one show because nobody showed up. By the way, Benito was working for Buzz Out Loud. When he was listening to Buzz Out Loud, we stole pretty much everybody. Tom Merritt, Molly Wood, Veronica Belmont, Benito, Jason Howell, all worked at Buzz Outlet, all ended up working for us at one point as actor. At one point or another.
- [119:44]
B
You know, that's actually what connected me to twit, because back when I was working and living in Washington, D.C. buzz out loud had a call in show, and I sent a video, a correction to Molly Wood. And so she read that. And then years later, when Jason was working at Twitter, quit. I submitted a video for the listener call in, and he remembered me from Buzz Out Loud.
- [120:07]
A
So he's like, yeah, let's Play this. Yeah, Buzz Out Loud is a great show. And, and I was actually sad that CNET ended it, but it was a daily.
- [120:15]
B
That was pretty hard to do a daily show.
- [120:17]
A
Hard to do five days a week.
- [120:18]
B
Yeah, I can imagine.
- [120:19]
A
We used to do the Giz Whiz, the Dick T. Bartolo show, five days a week. And that was murder. But you know, I was thinking about that the other day. Dick, who still does the Giz Whiz, he does it with Chad. Now another former employee, Chad Johnson, who started the OMG Craft show on, on our network and eventually said, I want to go independent. I want to do it on YouTube. We said yes. He and Chad still do the Giz Whiz. And I was always amazed they could come up with a new crappy gadget every day of the week. It was kind of mind boggling.
- [120:51]
B
I think there's no shortage of crap. Tacky.
- [120:54]
A
Apparently there's plenty.
- [120:55]
B
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
- [120:56]
A
Still going strong. And actually somebody in our YouTube chat is. Sir1. Sir is saying, wasn't the longest show the New Year's show. That's a good point. We did two 24 hour shows. This is true New Year's Eve. Two successive years. And then Lisa said, never again. You're killing the staff. I said, but I like it. They say, yeah, but you aren't doing all the work.
- [121:21]
B
I, I was one of the, the stops because I was in Hawaii when that happened. So I had, I had three hours.
- [121:27]
A
Back that started because Lisa and I were watching. We're visiting. We were staying at a friend's house in New Year's Eve and we watched, you know, the ball drop at 9pm because we're in California. 9pm is midnight east coast time. And then it was over. We said, wait a minute. It's only.
- [121:43]
B
All I remember about that New Year's is that when I left for Hawaii, you didn't have a tattoo on your ass. And I came back, you had a tattoo.
- [121:51]
A
You know what's weird? Tattoos. I still have it. They don't go, ever goes away. Keep waiting for it to fade out. So I said, you know, we should do a New Year's Eve show that doesn't end at 9pm East coast time. In fact, we should do a New Year's Eve show that starts when the New year starts in the Solomon Islands or wherever it is and continues all the way through till the New year is gone. All across the globe. Globe. That's why it was 24 hours.
- [122:20]
B
That was educational. Because that's the year I realized there aren't 24 time zones in the world because there are some weird offsets, 30 minute offsets.
- [122:29]
A
Yeah. So we were, there was one, we were doing 15 minutes apart. Jammer B. Well, I want, I, I, this is why Lisa won't let me do it anymore. I said, I want to pop a champagne bottle every time it's New Year's Eve somewhere, and I want a balloon drop every time.
- [122:45]
C
Time.
- [122:46]
A
So we would have, Because I wanted to have it's happy new year 24 times, actually turned out like 27 times. So we got the cheapest champagne we could get. They were magnums, but they were awful. But they, but you know, you could pop them and, and Jammer B, the first time he attached a bunch of balloons to a rope, came down, pick the rope back up, and it was pretty pathetic. It would just kind of flop. Different.
- [123:13]
B
It was different.
- [123:13]
A
So the second time, poor Jammer B, he went up in the ceiling and he wired each balloon, had its own little fishing line, hundreds of them across the ceiling so that he could let them fall. And they did. It was beautiful. And then ratchet them back up for the next balloon drop so we could do them all. And the saddest thing. Oh, you did two at a time. Jammer Bees in our chat room. The saddest thing is when we left the Brick House house, Jammer B said, yeah, we only used that once. Yeah, I, I missed that.
- [123:46]
B
We did so much experimentation, so much fun.
- [123:48]
A
Brick House.
- [123:49]
B
It was a lot. That was also. That was the same year that you broke the twit desk doing the Harlem Shake, I believe.
- [123:56]
A
Yes, Right. And I could roll that in right now because it lives on, on YouTube. And I'm just hoping that Bonito does not roll it in.
- [124:09]
B
We'll get a copy of that. Strike.
- [124:10]
D
There's that, and then there's the two times that you had exercise balls burst twice under you.
- [124:17]
A
One. Only one was on camera, one was on the radio show. And all you heard was at the cottage.
- [124:22]
B
It was at the cottage. Right.
- [124:23]
A
Well, you heard was, boom, what's over. So there's audio of that, but there is video of me. Because the second time it happened. See, the problem was, was I can't remember, was it you, John? Somebody said, you know those exercise balls, the ultra burst or anti burst, ultra fit stability balls you buy? Because I used to sit on a stability ball for years, most of the time. The trainer told me once sit on a stability ball. So I did. He said, you can get those cheaper from China. So we bought a bunch of them cheaper. It was Colleen. Okay. Like, I don't want to incriminate you, Jammer B. So Colleen bought a bunch of knockoff stability balls, which they popped. We never. After the sec. The second time, I knew it had popped because I. I started to sink.
- [125:11]
D
Yeah. And then.
- [125:14]
A
And then what I didn't realize is. Yeah, there's a period of time when you are just going. And then after a certain point, it goes boom. And you're on your.
- [125:22]
D
Yes. You just.
- [125:23]
A
This was.
- [125:23]
D
That was at the cottage. I think for a moment, you're like, I'm melting.
- [125:27]
A
I'm melting. And then.
- [125:28]
D
Whoa.
- [125:29]
B
Where's.
- [125:30]
A
All right, I don't want to take the time to go find those, but I'm gonna. I'm gonna let you roll both of those in. Benito, put them in the post. Okay, we'll put them in post. It's great to have Father Robert Ballister. You could stick around, right? I know it's late at night. What is it? Yeah.
- [125:47]
B
It'S getting close to 2:00am I think.
- [125:49]
A
Oh, I'm so sorry. Well, we're gonna keep you up a little later, Alan Malvantano. It's not quite so late.
- [125:54]
C
Where.
- [125:54]
A
Where are you located? I forgot.
- [125:56]
D
I'm on the East Coast. I'm in Kentucky.
- [125:58]
A
So it's dinner time in Kentucky.
- [126:00]
D
Yeah.
- [126:01]
A
Maybe go out and get some KFC while we take this little break. Okay. Do they eat KFC in Kentucky?
- [126:09]
D
Not really.
- [126:10]
B
Popeyes, the original maker of KFC in Kentucky, he has a different. He has a restaurant that people tell me you actually have to go to.
- [126:18]
A
Oh.
- [126:19]
B
Because he got upset with what KFC did with his recipe. So he has a recipe restaurant where he actually makes his original recipe.
- [126:26]
A
Is he a Kentucky Colonel?
- [126:28]
B
Well, originally, yeah.
- [126:30]
A
Who is. I think Dvorak was a Kentucky Colonel. Somebody on the Twitter panel. You can buy them, I believe. All right, we're going to take a little break. This show brought to you by netsuite. You know, we talk a lot about the present on this show, but we also talk about the future, and that is. Is a lot harder to know. What does the future hold for business? You ask nine experts, you're going to get 10 answers. Especially now. Rates are going up. Rates are going down. Inflation. It's going up. No, it's going down. Can somebody please invent a crystal ball? Until then, over 41,000 businesses have future proofed their operations with Net Suite by Oracle. It's the number one one cloud erp, bringing accounting, financial management, inventory, and HR into one fluid platform. You know, it's great with one, a single unified business management suite. There's just a single source of truth, right? So you have the visibility and control you need to make quick decisions because all that information is at your fingertips with real time insights and forecasting. You're. It's kind of like a crystal ball. You're peering into the future with real, actionable data. When you're closing the books in days, not weeks, you're spending less time looking backwards and more time on what's coming next. If I had needed this product, it's what I'd use. This is the solution for any enterprise. Whether your company's earning millions or even hundreds of millions of dollars, NetSuite helps you respond to immediate challenges and seizes your biggest opportunity. Speaking of opportunity, you might want to check out the CFO's guide to AI and machine learning. This is free right now@netuite.com twit and this is something everybody needs to know. The CFO's guide to AI and Machine Learning. What does this mean for your business? The guide is free. Netsuite.com TWIT N E T S U I T E netsuite.com TWIT we thank them so much for their support. Support of this week in tech. Another video. I think we might have a podcaster in this one. He's got a pretty good looking setup. This is Patrick. Patrick. Hi, Leo. And congratulations. For more than 20 years, you and the Twit network have been a direct influence on my life in more ways than one. Whether it's entertaining me or giving me advice in my everyday job, to helping me with my career success, to giving me the passion to explore new hobby hobbies. It's been absolutely invaluable to even the occasional chagrin of my wife. You've literally become the voice of a.
- [129:15]
D
Third person in our house.
- [129:17]
A
I've installed speakers everywhere, including in the shower and in 20 other locations with the whole home speaker system just to be able to listen to Twit wherever I am and whatever I'm doing, I can honestly say that in these 20 years, I've listened to every single episode. And thank you again so much. Here's to 20 years more.
- [129:37]
D
And hopefully that's not all.
- [129:39]
A
20 years powered by AI Leobots. Thank you. That's Patrick Foxhaven. Now, he must have a YouTube channel, right?
- [129:47]
B
He's got three basketballs. The Enterprise NCC 1701.
- [129:52]
A
I see that. Yes.
- [129:53]
B
And what looks like a Game Boy. And then up top, that's like some sort of scrolling Disk optimization screen.
- [130:00]
A
Yeah, this guy's. This Guy's got a YouTube channel or a podcast, something. Right. Although, I'll be honest with you, Alan, I kind of prefer your set. I like the funky set with a lot of.
- [130:11]
B
Yeah, I do a lot of stuff going on.
- [130:13]
D
You got all sorts of chotchkis back there.
- [130:14]
A
Tchotchkes. That's it.
- [130:15]
D
I got. And I got. I mean, this is like an Optane wafer. Wow. Oh, wow.
- [130:22]
A
Whatever happened to Optane? Yeah, that was one tail.
- [130:27]
D
I'm sorry. Still. I'm still waiting for the Harvard Business Study to come out on, like, the. All the ways that this was simultaneously too early and too late of a technology to exist.
- [130:40]
A
Yeah. And Intel's layer cake memory. Right. That was kind of the idea. It was stacked or something.
- [130:47]
D
Yeah. Cross point. It was cross point.
- [130:50]
A
That's right. It was three dimensional. Yeah.
- [130:52]
D
Yep, yep, yep. It was three, three dimensional and phase, basically. They would never admit to it, but phase change was so exciting.
- [130:59]
B
Yeah. We were so excited by that tech.
- [131:01]
A
I remember.
- [131:02]
B
Wanted to see it.
- [131:03]
A
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
- [131:04]
B
And then it didn't really do anything.
- [131:06]
A
How about dire wolves? How do you feel about. Are you excited about dire wolves coming back? Absolutely.
- [131:12]
B
We don't have to worry about endangered species anymore, Leo, because we can always.
- [131:15]
A
Bring them back, make them again. Scientists were so focused on what they could do, they didn't think whether they should do it. It. No, this is Scientific American saying. Sorry, yeah, tell us what. It's not really a direwolf, Alan.
- [131:32]
D
They only kind of sort of did it. They took some of the DNA and they grafted it into a close. Well, they said it was a close relative, but even that's up for debate.
- [131:42]
A
This is the same company.
- [131:44]
D
Yeah.
- [131:45]
A
What is it? That's a terrible name. Colossal Bioscience. Doesn't that sound like. If you were an evil, evil, you know, mad scientists, you would call it Colossal Bio Science. They did. They're the ones who did the woolly mouse, Right.
- [132:02]
B
This is the genetic equivalent of taking the body of a Humvee, putting it on the chassis of a Suburban, and saying, you can now buy a military vehicle. It looks like it, but it's not. It.
- [132:13]
A
It's a gray wolf whose genome has been edited to give it some dire wolf like traits. The dire.
- [132:20]
D
I mean, listen, there's. There's plenty of novel. Like, there have been advancements that they have done, like, without a doubt, to. To do to accomplish what they have so far. It's just that their. Their PR is spinning at a little PR they're just spinning it a little too far.
- [132:36]
A
I actually interviewed George Church, who some say is the father of modern genomics and he has been working and he made a good case for, for it on bringing back the woolly mammoth. It's not like to create a Jurassic park, it's to actually preserve the permafrost in the, in the Arctic. So his point was that the permafrost holds a lot of carbon dioxide. It's. It's frozen in there and as it melts, of course it's released into the air and causes greenhouse. Is a greenhouse gas, causes greenhouse House effects. He says that it's been trapped there to some degree because they had giant mammals thousands and thousands of years ago that would stomp it down. But with the extinction of these giant mammals, it's not getting, you know, compressed and combined with climate change is going to preserve. Propose a real problem. And this is a triangulation. You can go back and look at it. Church is working with a company, company to, to kind of try to recreate this woolly mouse. I think was. I don't know if it was a first step, but to try to recreate the woolly mammoth. Not because it would be cool, although it would be cool, but because they want to repopulate that Arctic area to protect it. To protect.
- [133:58]
B
We don't need woolly mammoths to pound down that ice. Just send me and the population of Springfield, Missouri do a quick run. It's all good.
- [134:08]
A
Okay. Anyway, I mean there's been a lot of mocking of this, you know, dire wolf and even I've even seen people mocking the woolly mammoth.
- [134:18]
B
I don't want to mock it though, because it is, it is interesting genetics.
- [134:22]
A
I think there's a point also, to be honest. Right. Yeah.
- [134:24]
B
It's in the PR that it gets ridiculous.
- [134:27]
D
Yeah. I mean they had to make genetic. Like when you're trying to change DNA, usually you have to go in very precisely and you can only tweak like a couple of chrome, you know, a couple of things. Right. But they have like. Right, well, well, then they're doing it like in, in batches. They're able to do like for every time you unwind the chromosome and pass it through this thing, you can actually make multiple changes per pass now, which is like a pretty cool thing. It's like you're able to do multiple edits for one operation which lets you, you know, change more. And that's, that's all. I mean there's benefits that you can. That can come from this, that extend well beyond just making, making, you know, a pseudo, you know, pet or whatever you want to call it.
- [135:13]
A
Well, if they had baby, if they had like miniature woolly mammoths, that'd be cute running around the house.
- [135:19]
B
Oh, no, Leo, come on. I don't want like a woolly mammoth in some woman's purse. That's just.
- [135:25]
A
Yeah, it's like baby Yoda. It'd be kind of cute. Speaking of science, apparently the new budget the administration is proposing has, has some fairly significant cuts to NASA's budget. Not the budget to go to Mars, but to the agency science budget. Five billion out of the 25 billion. About 20%. And most of them are concentrated within the agency's science mission directorate. Directorate, probably because that's one of the people, one of the groups that are saying, we're going to have climate change, it's going to be a problem.
- [136:02]
C
Problem.
- [136:03]
A
They oversee planetary science, earth science, astrophysics research and more. The science programs are going to get in this new budget a 50% cut in funding, which is significant.
- [136:18]
D
I would like to point out that I don't know numbers off the top of my head, but the NASA budget is already infinitesimally small compared to extremely small.
- [136:27]
A
Yeah, it should be large.
- [136:29]
C
Yeah.
- [136:29]
B
This is what happens when you put an industrialist in charge of an organization that does research. Yeah, research is always looking at something that might be useful. 5, 10, 15, 20 years.
- [136:40]
A
It's a cost center. It's not a process.
- [136:42]
B
Yeah, exactly. We reap the benefits for that in future generations. The industrialist is always saying that's wasted money that could be used to do something that we do now. So, you know, Musk is all about let's make rockets. Now we know how to make rockets. Now we know how to get me to Mars. So I can say I'm the man who landed a man on Mars. But that does nothing for space exploration 10, 20, 30 years down the line. And I want NASA to focus on those 10, 20, 30 years down the line.
- [137:09]
A
That's so does, so does the nominee for NASA Director Jared Isaacman. During his confirmation this week, he said, I strongly supported NASA's science programs, but, but you know, traditionally the NASA directors spend a lot of energy fighting for more money and not getting it. So yeah, we'll see. But that's a little, a little concerning. But we still have the direwolf, so that's okay.
- [137:34]
D
Yeah, I mean a lot of, a lot of those tech. I mean, talking about like benefiting industrialists, it's almost like a short term versus a Long term play, if you want to just do the thing right now versus the things that get developed through NASA programs, since it's a government and public funded thing, it ends up going to the public. Well, what happens? You end up with a bunch of other, other related industrialists that can take advantage.
- [138:00]
A
Well, and then you also get pork barrel programs like the SLS that are really non functional but exist only because every member of Congress could send a tiny bit of that budget to their state, to their industries. I mean, I think the SLS is literally made, has parts made in every state of the union because of that.
- [138:20]
D
Right.
- [138:22]
A
It's just nuts.
- [138:23]
B
And then they wonder why it's so over cost.
- [138:25]
A
Right.
- [138:26]
B
Because you did it in the most inefficient way possible.
- [138:28]
D
Yeah, yeah.
- [138:29]
A
And this is not a partisan problem. And this happened in the Obama administration, it happened in the Biden administration, it happened in the Trump administration. This is Congress just not wanting to spend money on this kind of stuff.
- [138:40]
B
Well, it's also the way that we look at public service when we're electing someone for office, especially for, for national office, for federal office. We want to know what they're going to bring to us.
- [138:53]
A
Right.
- [138:53]
B
And so we, they have to, it's like a quarterly report at a company. They have to do. For me, I got this bill, I got this money, I got this check, this stipend, whatever it might be coming into my state. Well, that's great if you only care about the next election cycle.
- [139:09]
A
But if you want people ever, ever go to Mars. Do you think that that's really in the car?
- [139:14]
B
I think we will. And then everyone say, okay, we went there, there's no reason to go back. Mars is a horrible target for space exploration.
- [139:20]
A
It's toxic.
- [139:22]
B
It's the worst place to go. It has, it has no magnetosphere. Which means that any terraforming, which some people keep saying, oh, we'll just terraform it with nukes, it goes away, right? There's no, there's no shielding from radiation. It gets less than 40% of the sunlight that you get on Earth. It has less than 1% of the atmosphere. It has toxic poisonous perchlorates built into the regolith. It is a horrible target for terraforming. I mean, much better is the moon. The moon would be a fantastic place for us to go, but it's not sexy like Mars.
- [139:53]
D
Padre, didn't you watch Total Recall?
- [139:57]
A
Get your ass to Mars.
- [139:58]
B
Get your ass tomorrow.
- [140:00]
A
Dr. Quaid, please. I'm going to read a poem. This is, this is a poem written. Let me see here if I can find it. I really liked it. Dan Shepard in Paducah, Kentucky just down the road from you a piece.
- [140:15]
D
Oh yeah?
- [140:16]
A
Yeah. I don't know if he's a colonel. Maybe he is. I don't know. Dan wrote this 20 years of twit. It mostly rhymes. Back in the day I was tech elite with an ipod so big it doubled as a circle seat FireWire blazed at 400 pace or so I thought I was young, give me grace and emac chugged at 800Mhz downloading twit while making it hurt on 56k it took all night. One episode it was a long fight. John C. Dvorak always contrarian Kevin Rose a.com Barbarian Hodgman cracked jokes was a sage Jason yelling about funding his next stage. Through dial up screeches and wi fi waves, Leo and crew still fill my days from iPods to AirPods. Look how we've grown. Yet somehow Leo's inbox is still overblown. Yes it is as a matter of fact. So happy 20th twit, you techie delight. Still keeping me up way too late at night. And if my modem dials up once again, just know I'm trying to saying to download the tech guy. Amen. Thanks for 20 years. Thanks for a great poem that's really fun. And here's a Let me pull this one up A video from Paul. Go ahead Paul. Hey Leo, I'm Paul Smith and I.
- [141:41]
C
Have been with you guys since the.
- [141:43]
D
Very beginning since the original name that.
- [141:47]
C
Copyright prevents us from saying.
- [141:51]
A
Revenge of.
- [141:52]
C
The screen SA that you guys have.
- [141:53]
D
Made it 20 years.
- [141:55]
C
In fact it's your show that inspired.
- [141:57]
D
Me to go into teaching IT work.
- [142:00]
C
In high schools and computer science.
- [142:02]
D
I turn currently am a computer science.
- [142:04]
C
Teacher for middle and high school in.
- [142:06]
A
A small town in Illinois not too.
- [142:09]
D
Far from Mr. Norton.
- [142:10]
C
And I teach computer maintenance to high schools as well. I just want to say congratulations and.
- [142:17]
D
So let's hear for many many more.
- [142:20]
A
Those are always the the people I love hearing most from are people who were inspired by the work we did on tech TV or here on Twitter to get into teaching, to get into technology. And I hear from those people all the time. It's that's really been a blessing. I'm really kind of most proud of that. More news to come in just a bit. Alan Malvantano and Father Robert have stuck around. You are. You are troopers I guess. Well, well done. We. We only have. Let me see. We only have five more videos to Go. That's all. That's all. And two more ads. We're good. We're good. And one more news story.
- [143:03]
D
You're lucky. We got Padre and it's. Isn't it Palm Sunday?
- [143:07]
A
Oh, no, no, it's Monday. You have to work.
- [143:09]
B
It's Monday.
- [143:09]
D
Oh, yeah.
- [143:10]
B
I worked all day.
- [143:11]
A
Oh. Oh, Robert, take a nap during this next step, please. Be my guest.
- [143:16]
B
I rested last week.
- [143:18]
A
I got a great picture from you, Roberto, of. With your. Holding your palm. I guess it looked like the church he goes to. They have a photo op when you get your palm. Do churches do that?
- [143:30]
B
There are actually quite a few. In fact, the Church of San Ignacio, which is ours, they have a mirror that you. You go up to and you. You put in a euro coin and it turns on the lights so you.
- [143:43]
A
Can start, gosh, there. There is. There is Roberto.
- [143:47]
B
There you go.
- [143:48]
A
With his palm cross.
- [143:49]
B
You know, the two days that get the highest attendance are Ash Wednesday and Palm Sunday. The two days that we give stuff out for some reason that's.
- [143:58]
A
You want to smudge on your forehead, come on down. We're giving them out for free. Do you have to do that to everybody as they go by you? Wow.
- [144:08]
D
Yeah.
- [144:09]
A
That's a lot of work.
- [144:10]
B
I mean, I actually ones canonically. Could I just like, sprinkle? Just throw it into people's faces?
- [144:19]
A
No. Don't make me be sacrilegious. You just. You're just egging me on here. What are you doing for Easter? What's your Easter going to be like? Busy.
- [144:28]
B
It's going to be right here. The Easter week, Holy Week in the Vatican is just gorgeous. Pretty much any hour of the day. There is ethereal music that just comes from St. Peter's and it washes over the top of our house. So I hear it in my office. It's my amazing.
- [144:44]
A
This Monday is. It begins. Yes.
- [144:46]
B
Well, it started yesterday.
- [144:48]
A
Yeah. Or yesterday it began. Yeah. We were traveling and I remember being in Spain during Holy Week and they have these parades through the streets. Each church has its own float, usually showing Jesus in the cross and, you know, his. What are they? The agony. What do they call it?
- [145:10]
B
The Stations of the Cross.
- [145:13]
A
Stations of the Cross. It's funny because in Spain, Jesus is very well dressed and the women around him, Mary Magdalene and his mother, beautifully dressed in Spanish regalia. It was quite something. And these floats are very big, very heavy and carried by people in medieval robes. Basically.
- [145:37]
B
Basically.
- [145:38]
A
It's quite an amazing sight. I. I was fascinated.
- [145:41]
B
Just don't go to the Philippines Oh, I was about to ask you, Padre, I was about to ask if you've done the Philippines, because I used to go.
- [145:47]
D
I used to go to San Fernando Panga every.
- [145:50]
B
Every Holy Week. And what happens if you actually want to see someone really, not virtually and not fake, get crucified, go to the Philippines for Holy Week. Traumatizing.
- [146:01]
A
Okay. Traumatizing.
- [146:03]
B
It's. Yeah. I don't.
- [146:05]
A
They do. They. I don't.
- [146:08]
B
It's a thing. It's a thing. They actually, they actually walk down the streets self flagellating. Some of them are carrying a cross, wearing crowns of thorns.
- [146:14]
A
So they do the stations, parades.
- [146:16]
B
It's parades of them. It's wild. It's if, if you're into gore and vore. Yeah, that would be a good Holy Week for you. That was not my thing. Not my thing.
- [146:25]
A
No. I'm just seeing if I can find some pictures of these.
- [146:29]
B
Oh, don't get fixed.
- [146:30]
A
No, not at the crucifixion. No, no, of the parades. They were quite beautiful. I know. I have some here, wait a minute, let me. We didn't plan the trip for Holy Week, but once I realized it was Holy Week, I thought, oh, this is going to be fun. We're going to get to see some beautiful things.
- [146:51]
B
We are starting to see what the jubilee year will do to tourist traffic here because we're now in tourist season and it's significant. It's a big bump.
- [147:00]
C
Wow.
- [147:01]
A
Yeah. Well, I, I won't. I.
- [147:04]
B
And also they're coming after tourists. So if you come to Italy, they're coming for you, the inspectors, because they know that tourists make mistakes. Well, because if you get onto a bus, you buy a ticket, you actually have to validate your ticket in the machine in the bus. People don't know that all the time. It's not.
- [147:21]
A
Oh, I remember that. No, I didn't know that. Yes.
- [147:23]
B
That's a €50 on the spot fine. If you cannot pay it on the spot, it becomes an €80 fine. If you try to leave the country when you get to the airport, it's a €400 fine. So don't. Yeah.
- [147:38]
A
When you get on the bus, validate your ticket.
- [147:41]
B
Correct.
- [147:41]
A
And another thing that I didn't know until I got to Italy, you order, you pay for your Cornetto and espresso first at the cashier and then you go to the counter and you show them receipt and you get your Cornetto and espresso. It's two separate transactions.
- [147:59]
B
It depends. If it's like my coffee place down here, they Know me. So we just order and then we pay at the end.
- [148:05]
A
Oh, okay.
- [148:05]
B
But most places, yeah, you pay up.
- [148:07]
D
You pay up front.
- [148:08]
A
Yeah. We went to the.
- [148:09]
B
When you come I will take you to my place downtown. It is the best coffee and the best pastries.
- [148:15]
A
We went to the famous Tazo d' Oro which is the original home of espresso that they say and yeah, so. And then you stand there at your, at the counter and it's wonderful. Love that.
- [148:26]
B
That has spoiled me every time I come home. The coffee, the coffee tastes like water now.
- [148:31]
A
Yeah, no, that's not. How about let's take a trip to Tasmania. Are you ready? This is Richard, he's. He's down under.
- [148:39]
C
Watch.
- [148:40]
A
Hey Leon. The team at TWiT.
- [148:42]
D
Richard from Tasmania, Australia here.
- [148:45]
B
Congratulations on 20 years.
- [148:47]
A
Such an amazing achievement. Achievement. I've been following TWiT for 19 of.
- [148:51]
B
Those 20 years when I was living abroad and bought my very first ipod and got me through lots of commutes and work days. And since then it's got me through.
- [149:00]
A
Many more and workouts and chores.
- [149:04]
B
So thank you for everything and here's to another 20 more.
- [149:07]
A
Thank you. And you want to, you want. If you want to go to Tasmania, you know how you're going to go? You're going to go in an airplane maybe with, with the Stork. Hey Leo and the Twit team. I just wanted to say congratulations on your anniversary. You all have been a constant source of entertainment and consistency throughout the last some 20,000 flight hours of mine. I've been watching and listening since the tech TV days and then now into the podcast era. Love everything that you do and thanks for everything. Isn't that great? What is that plane? Do you know, Alan? Can you tell it's not a jet? It looks like it's a turbo prop maybe.
- [149:43]
D
Don't ask me, I can identify a submarine.
- [149:46]
B
I'm trying to. I don't know the airport. That does not look familiar.
- [149:50]
A
It doesn't look familiar. It looks like a regional.
- [149:53]
B
It could be like a commercial. He might be at the commercial terminal.
- [149:56]
A
Yeah. Oh maybe. Yeah. I don't know. Anyway, and he calls himself the Stork.
- [150:01]
B
Yeah. That's not a 767 7.
- [150:03]
D
Yeah, that's not a big one.
- [150:04]
A
No, it's not a jet. It looks like a turbo proper regional. I wonder if he delivers babies. If he calls himself the Stork. Maybe that's the baby plane.
- [150:11]
B
Oh, care flights for babies maybe.
- [150:15]
A
Let's take a little break. I do have some more news but I have lots of other things to do. First, let's talk about our great friends at ExpressVPN, our sponsors for this segment of the 20th anniversary twit. I've been using ExpressVPN as my VPN not for 20 years, but for quite some time. Let me give you an example why you'd want to use it. Have you ever browsed in incognito mode? Sometimes they call it private browsing mode. It probably is not as incognito as you think. In fact, Google, Google just last year settled a $5 billion lawsuit because they were accused of secretly tracking users in incognito mode. Google's defense. Oh, incognito doesn't mean invisible. And in fact, they know exactly what you're doing. All of your online activity still 100% visible to third parties. The best way to protect your privacy? Use ExpressVPN, the only VPN I use in Traffic Trust when I go online. We went down to Tucson for the gem show and I arrived at the airport, you know, and it says Free SFO wifi. And every time I look at that go, I don't think I should use the free airport Wi Fi. Then I remember, but wait, I've got ExpressVPN on my phone, on my tablet, on my computer. Fire it up. Whenever I'm traveling, in airports, coffee shops in other countries, ExpressVPN is my go to. And there's a good reason for it. Everyone needs ExpressVPN. Without ExpressVPN, third parties can still see every website you visit, even if you're in incognito mode. That means your ISP or your mobile network provider, the admin of your wifi network, the free Airport wifi. And in many cases, everybody else on that network can also see you. And if there's a bad guy out there with a wifi, Pineapple or a similar device device, he can even attempt to hack you. Not with ExpressVPN running. Why is ExpressVPN the best? ExpressVPN is the best VPN because it hides your IP address, routes 100% of your traffic through secure encrypted servers is very easy to use. I just, I was on my iPad. I just went to ExpressVPN. There's a big red button that says start it. I fired up the app. You just click one button and now, boom, you are completely private, completely secure, completely, completely protected. Even on the free Airport WI fi. It works on all devices. I use it on my phones, on my laptops, my tablets. You can use it on your routers if you want stay private no matter where you are. Rated number one by top tech reviewers like CNET and the Verge. It's the only one I use. It's the only one I recommend. Protect your online privacy today. Visit expressvpn.com twitt that's expresvpn.com an extra four months free when you buy a two year package. That's a great deal. Expressvpn.com Twitter we thank them so much for their support.
- [153:15]
D
I think I've been using them for about five years now.
- [153:17]
A
Have you? Yeah. I'm not kidding about the free SFO WI fi. Every time in an airport I want to use that WI fi. Right. But I'm always. It's nerve wracking.
- [153:29]
B
It's amazing how many I get to fall for this. When I do flights out of the United States, I will create an AP with the name of the free AP from the airport.
- [153:39]
A
That's what really worries me.
- [153:40]
B
Right.
- [153:41]
A
Why would you do that, Robert?
- [153:43]
B
I just want to see how many devices auto connect. It's always about a dozen in the plane. It's like you don't you. You honestly think that 10,000ft in the air away from the airport, you're still getting that WI fi so signal.
- [153:57]
A
Oh you mean you're on the plane and you say free wi. Free airport WI fi.
- [154:00]
D
Yeah, everybody has their phone. It'll be like the automatically.
- [154:04]
A
Yeah, it may. Yeah. It may be set to automatically join it. Yeah, precisely. So that's another thing. Forget those networks you. Right.
- [154:10]
B
So all I do is I have my laptop that's connected to the plane WI fi and I run a little Kane Enable and I'm basically the man in the middle it. So it's. And it works every single time.
- [154:20]
A
Time.
- [154:22]
C
Sigh.
- [154:24]
D
He's a white hat.
- [154:25]
A
Yeah, he's a white hat. That's the good news. He. He never does anything bad with your information. You see that priest and on row 17, he's hacking you.
- [154:36]
B
Row 17. I'm. I'm in like 35, 36. Leo, come on.
- [154:42]
A
You don't get to sit up front, huh?
- [154:44]
C
Not anymore.
- [154:45]
A
So I'm glad to see, Alan, that you're working in AI for a solar dime. That's very cool. Could I prefer to work in A1 myself.
- [154:54]
D
Here we go.
- [154:58]
A
Yes. She's a McMahon. She's the, you know, wife of. What is it? Vince McMahon.
- [155:04]
D
The Vince McMahon.
- [155:05]
A
Vince McMahon. WWE and very nicely the Secretary of Education in the United States. She was speaking at a Arizona State Summit for educators speaking to teachers. She's the new Secretary of Education. She said she was talking about a school system that's going to start making sure that first graders or even pre Ks have A1 teaching in every year. Now, even if she was saying AI should. Would first graders or kindergarteners be taught about AI at that age? I don't think so.
- [155:48]
D
Listen, Leo, I can't even think about what you just said because as soon as she said A one, I for one, welcome our steak sauce overlord. Really?
- [155:56]
A
Then she said now that maybe she was. You know, it was a slip, right? It was a slip. A1. No, she said it again. Kids are sponges, she said they just absorb everything. It wasn't that long ago that it was. We're going to have Internet in our schools now. Let's see. A1 and how that can be helpful.
- [156:13]
C
Helpful.
- [156:14]
D
And there, if you watch the video, there were two other adults sitting across from this woman, and neither one of them corrected her.
- [156:21]
A
Well, no, because you don't correct people in the Trump administration. I don't think.
- [156:25]
B
Yeah, I don't think they knew, honestly.
- [156:28]
A
Maybe they did.
- [156:29]
D
Talking about A one like.
- [156:31]
A
Well, Heinz knew what she was talking about. They immediately posted on Instagram.
- [156:36]
B
It's the best.
- [156:38]
A
Agree. Best to start them early.
- [156:41]
D
Oh, that's great.
- [156:43]
A
With a picture of A one steak us next to them.
- [156:48]
B
You know, if. If they had any marketing budget, they would spin up a division of heinz that does AI. But they call it A1.
- [156:56]
A
A1.
- [156:57]
B
A1 in artificial intelligence systems.
- [157:00]
D
I mean.
- [157:00]
B
Free. Free press.
- [157:01]
A
Free press. Do you think she actually thought it was a. That was a slip, right?
- [157:05]
B
No. Or she's reading a prompt multiple times. She did it multiple times. It means she doesn't understand what it is.
- [157:11]
A
Is.
- [157:12]
B
And she just read.
- [157:13]
A
She's saying kids should be taught it.
- [157:15]
D
Yeah, she just read about it and she thought that it was A one in print.
- [157:18]
A
Right. This is the Secretary of Education.
- [157:22]
D
Well, listen, merit based, Leo. It's all merit based these days. Right, right, right, right.
- [157:32]
A
Be careful with your Chrome. Researchers have uncovered dozens of sketchy Chrome extensions. The sad thing is they have 4 million installs.
- [157:45]
D
Yep.
- [157:46]
A
And many of these extensions were featured on the Chrome store, the extension store.
- [157:53]
B
I have removed all extensions. All extensions.
- [157:57]
A
I don't. I've removed Chrome. The first thing I did.
- [158:01]
B
I still use Chromium. I use Edge, so.
- [158:03]
A
Yeah, use edge. But you can't use an ad blocker on edge. Right. Because of manifest. You can.
- [158:10]
B
You can. Yes.
- [158:11]
A
You can't use U block origin. You can use somewhat stripped.
- [158:14]
D
Use other ones.
- [158:15]
A
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
- [158:17]
C
I.
- [158:18]
A
What I moved to and I like it. I would recommend it. The Zen browser, which is a Firefox.
- [158:22]
B
Fork I tried after the last time I was on. And actually it's nice.
- [158:27]
A
It's very nice. It's early beta. Yeah.
- [158:30]
B
Well, it reminds me of what Chrome was like before it started getting blue.
- [158:34]
A
Right.
- [158:35]
B
I wonder if that's just the life cycle of a browser. They always start out fast and sleek and slick and then it's called, and.
- [158:42]
A
Dare I say it to a priest, inshittification.
- [158:45]
B
Yes. Cory Doctorow was right.
- [158:48]
A
And that's what's happened to the Chrome browser. That's when a company, it's a stage in the company's life, usually the end stage in a company's life as Corey defines it. You know, when a company starts like Amazon starts, they want to build customers, right? So, so they keep prices low, they say we're all about the customer, then they get enough customers, and then it's gonna be all about the businesses. Same thing happened at Amazon. They brought in all the third party sellers. Now, by the way, this is gonna bite them in the butt because many of these sellers are in China. And basically what's gonna happen to Temu Shein Alibaba, anybody selling on Amazon from China with the tariffs, you can, you can't. You just, you're out of business. And that's at least half of I think Amazon's business. But the third stage is when you stop extracting, you stop caring about your customers, you stop caring about your businesses, and you just extract as much value as you can. And it's clear Amazon's in that stage. Google is in that stage. It's. It's kind of sad. By the way, you want one more insidification story? I don't know if this is true.
- [160:00]
B
Hit me.
- [160:01]
A
It's from Carl Bod's writing about this in Tector. You know that Vizio was bought by Walmart. Walmart has been trying to and shif. I mean, leverage standby mode. They, they call it scenic mode. And Vizio says Walmart says it's supposed to display relaxing ambient content when your TV is idle for a period of time, which Vizio claims adds to the environment of your home or office. Well, I don't know if you saw this on Reddit, but one Vizio owner was annoyed to leave his room and come back to a loop of Kristi Noem saying, if you're an immigrant, get out.
- [160:46]
D
Oh my goodness.
- [160:47]
A
Over and over again. Apparently Vizio is selling this time as ads.
- [160:53]
D
That's. That's not very soothing content for my television. No, like flowers and rivers and stuff.
- [161:03]
A
This was on Reddit. I left the TV idle while I went to the other room to play with my dog. After about half an hour, I started hearing Kristi Noem praising Trump and telling immigrants to get out of America over and over. I went in to check and caught this video looping three more times before it went back to the nature clips. That's very 1984.
- [161:22]
D
Now what's funny is where did those televisions come from?
- [161:26]
A
China.
- [161:29]
D
Circular. So there's going to be less of those televisions?
- [161:32]
A
Well, there'll be far fewer. Oh yeah, far fewer.
- [161:36]
B
You know, can you get a dumb TV now? Is there any manufacturer that sells a dumb tv?
- [161:41]
A
You can buy a computer monitor.
- [161:43]
D
You can buy. Yeah, computer monitor.
- [161:45]
A
But it's going to be more expensive, right, for the square footage.
- [161:48]
B
Expensive, yeah.
- [161:49]
A
I was blown away. I. I went to Costco the other day and they're selling 85 inch TVs for 800 bucks.
- [161:57]
B
Of course. Yeah.
- [161:58]
D
Oh yeah.
- [161:59]
A
But the reason they can do that is because those TVs spy on you. They show you ads, plus they tell advertisers what you're watching, what you're doing. They all have cameras built in so that you can zoom from the tv as one day does.
- [162:16]
D
I have all of the Samsung endpoints for the TV related things blocked at my router.
- [162:22]
A
That's the way to do it.
- [162:23]
B
I've got a pie hole that kills all their DNS queries.
- [162:27]
A
That's why I actually don't care whether I can run you block origin anymore. Because I block it all upstream.
- [162:32]
B
Upstream.
- [162:33]
D
Yeah. And we don't use any of that. Smart TV stuff is only a backup. I've got SHIELD Pros on all the sets.
- [162:40]
A
The problem is, unfortunately, I have a bunch of Samsung TVs and, and even if you're running an Apple TV, it's very hard to. You have to go through the Samsung interface to get to the Apple tv. Right. You can't just have it come up. Unless you figure that out. I would like to have it come up on the. I don't want to see any of the Samsung crap. I don't think you can. And I definitely now don't want to see any of the Vizio crap. Wow.
- [163:05]
B
There's a. I had to set up the TV for my father because he's mostly bedbound now and I wanted to make sure he could access everything but the TV And I wanted to use a fire stick and I wanted to use an Apple tv. But because those functions are also built into the TV itself, he keeps choosing the wrong services.
- [163:24]
A
Yeah, that's right.
- [163:24]
B
Finally, I just had to give up and just set it up on the tv. Even though it's horrible.
- [163:28]
A
Yeah, yeah, it's slow. The apps aren't up to date, but it's easy to use. My same with my mom, who's got Alzheimer's. You know, she's got. I bought her a TCL with Roku coupe built in.
- [163:40]
B
That's exactly what my dad has.
- [163:41]
A
It's a lot easier for her to use. She doesn't have a separate thing. She doesn't have to switch HDMI ports or any of that stuff.
- [163:47]
B
And I went up and down the aisle at Costco just looking for any TV that didn't have any smart features. And not a single one.
- [163:53]
D
None.
- [163:55]
A
This is inification made real. That's terrible. Sigh. All right, let me play. I got a great video for you. Can I do one more? I got two more.
- [164:06]
D
I'll do.
- [164:07]
A
I'll do one more. This one. I think you're gonna enjoy this video.
- [164:11]
B
Hey, Uncle Leo, it's Tom Britton from Freak show and Tell and the Dangerous Circus. I'm in my little Chicago rehearsal space tonight, so you get to see a little behind the scenes with non theatrical lighting. I don't remember how I first found The Twit Podcast 2005. You only had a handful of episodes and there weren't a lot of podcasts. So I think I listened to all the podcasts, all the on earth, yours included.
- [164:31]
A
Since then I've.
- [164:32]
B
I'm a member of Club Twit and I enjoy a lot of the contents.
- [164:36]
A
Of the Twit family of programming.
- [164:38]
B
So I want to tell you a very heartfelt happy anniversary from all the Twit fans on Earth.
- [164:44]
A
So you.
- [164:45]
B
You make a wish. Me, I'm gonna blow up the candle for you. Happy anniversary Leo doing the Twit baby.
- [164:52]
A
Oh, look at this fire. Tom from Freak show and tell. That is unbelievable. Isn't that great? You know, that's the other thing that's amazing about this is the. Not only all over the world, but all work walks of life, all kinds of people. It's just such a privilege to be able to do this and to have done this for 20 years. I really appreciate it. One more ad, one more story.
- [165:17]
D
Back in the day, you were calling them Netcasts.
- [165:20]
A
Yeah, that was so on the very second podcast expo. This must have been 2007. I got up on stage, did the keynote. I said, why are we calling them podcasts? Why? That's because they run on an ipod. They won't always run on an ipod. Someday there'll be other ways to listen to podcasts besides ipods. Plus, Apple owns the trademark. Do you think that's a good idea? Can we call them something else? What about this? They're, they're, they're broadcasts over the Internet. How about we call them net casts? And, oh, it has this wonderful connotation of your casting a net to bring in people and nobody. Everybody hated. I called for years. It was a good.
- [166:05]
B
I, I, I still love hearing that netcast you love from people you trust. I mean, come on.
- [166:12]
A
Only on the old shows, because Jerry Wagley, who was our chief of marketing, I was at a podcast expo about four years ago. I guess they've changed it to the podcast movement, which is a terrible name. But anyway, and we were at the podcast movement, and Jerry said, can we please. Can we please? I just call them podcasts? And what was amazing is I. I guess in that session where we recorded netcasts you love, we also had him say, podcasts you love. So we were able to edit it, and we've been a podcast network every. Ever since.
- [166:41]
B
But guess what? We're there today. Leo, there's no more ipods, so.
- [166:45]
A
Yeah, exactly. So what is a podcast?
- [166:49]
D
It's. Listen. It's the same reason that when you save something in Word, it's a little floppy disk. Yeah.
- [166:54]
A
Yeah, I guess it is. You know, there's some people who made a retronym. It stands for play on demand or something like that.
- [167:02]
D
No, just trying to make it work.
- [167:04]
A
But I gave up, because people, they call it a podcast. They understand what a podcast is. They don't understand what a neck cast is. So I gave up. I was right, though. I'm just.
- [167:12]
D
Listen, Leo, there's an alternate timeline somewhere where everybody's calling them netcasts.
- [167:16]
A
What do you call it when it's on YouTube? Do you call it a podcast? YouTube does. That makes no sense.
- [167:21]
D
Yeah, I know.
- [167:23]
B
No, now everything's shorts. Shorts.
- [167:26]
A
Deep shorts. It's all shorts. It's true. All right, we're gonna see Padre in his shorts in just a moment. But first. No, we're not. No, I'm just kidding. That's a T. But first, a word from our sponsor and a company I am very proud to be representing. Bitwarden, the trusted leader in passwords, but also passkeys. Yes, I manage all my passkeys in Bitwarden and I'm loving it. And they even manage secrets. So it's a great way to send documents encrypted to keep track of your API keys and your secrets without uploading them to GitHub by accident. How many times that happened? Right? No, you got to have Bitwarden. With more than 10 million users across A 180 countries, over 50,000 businesses as well use Bit Warden. You know, I don't always think of it as a. I think I know it's great for individuals because it's open source, it's free for life, but it's great for businesses too. In fact, it's consistently ranked number one in user satisfaction by G2, recognized as a leader in software reviews Data quadrant. Bitwarden continues to protect 50,000 businesses worldwide wide. Now we're getting close to tax time. I think it's Wednesday, right? Have you sent your, your, your provider all your tax information? Have they sent back your returns? Did they do it with email? Tell me they didn't. Not when you can use Bitwarden Send. It securely sends documents encrypted, end to end encrypted. So all of that stuff, whatever you're sending remains protected. Here's the best part. You don't have to train your accountant because recipients don't need an accountant account to access them. So it's a great way to avoid risky email attachments. To share confidential documents, you get password protection. You also get expiration dates. You get view limits. You have full control over who accesses your sensitive information. This is just one of many reasons why I'm a fan of Bit Warden. Open source means they move fast, constantly adding great new features. They just did a survey, they've new findings from Bitwarden High highlight. Get this, 65% of all enterprises, more than half, still rely solely on passwords. They're not using single sign on, they're not using pass keys. That's not good. With a password, you know people are writing them on a post it note, put them on their monitor. Password management is cited in the same survey as the top IAM challenge for 35% of organizations. Only 21% implement passwordless authentication authentication. We can fix that. Enterprises face ongoing credential security risks and I don't want to call Bitwarden a password manager because it's so much more. It supports sso, it supports passkeys, it supports passwordless. Bitwarden offers enterprises essential tools with end to end encryption, multi factor authentication, secure password sharing. It Addresses both current and future authentication needs. They just announced their ISO 270012022 certification. That's very good news. That's an international standard that recognizes and assures that enterprises, developers and security teams are meeting stringent security and compliance requirements. If you're going to be ISO 27001, there's a lot you have to do on the back end to make sure it's safe. Bitwarden does it. That complements their existing compliance with SoC2 Type 2, GDPR compliant HIP, HIPAA, CCPA, the California Privacy Act. All Bitwarden compliant with all those standards. Bitwarden truly is the trusted security partner for enterprises. And yes, it prioritizes simplicity. It sounds complicated, right? But no, because no security solution that's complicated is going to be stand up to users, right? They're just going to bypass it. It's easy to use Bitwarden. Their setup only takes a few minutes. They're now native in all their apps and I love the new app apps. They support importing for most password management solutions. So moving to Bitwarden is painless. And again, I want to emphasize this. I've always said this. You should never use any encryption tool that is not open source. Bitwarden is fully open source, GPL licensed. The code can be inspected by anyone. Furthermore, they have regular third party security audits and they publish the results in full. So you can really be sure that Bitwarden does exactly what it says it does. Get started today with Bitwarden's free trial of a teams or enterprise plan. And as always for individuals, it's open source, free forever. Unlimited passwords, unlimited devices, pass keys too. You can even use a hardware key like a yubikey for free forever. Although I pay 10 bucks a year, a year to support them as a premium user. But you don't even need to do that. That it is a great deal. Bitwarden.com TWIT find out for your business, Find out for yourself. And I know all of you use a password manager, but I know you also have friends and family who are still using the same password on every site. You know how horrific that is? Bitwarden.com TWIT get him to move. Did you see by the way, that Troy Hunt got pwned? Did you see that story? Bitwarden.com Twitter all right, we're done with the ad. Troy Hunt, who does have I proponed right before.
- [172:50]
D
Before you move to that. So Bitwarden, one thing I like to commend them on is built into their Official client is also if you are self hosting your own service, if you're.
- [173:00]
A
An individual, you can self host it.
- [173:02]
D
That's right, yes. Which I'm self hosting across all my devices.
- [173:05]
A
There's excellent third party servers. There's a Rust server. Do you use that one or do you use the Bitwarden?
- [173:11]
D
It's just a docker container. It's just vault water, like back end.
- [173:14]
B
Yeah, I got a container on my Synology nas.
- [173:16]
A
You both use it and you both host your own vaults.
- [173:19]
D
Yeah.
- [173:20]
A
That's trust no one. Bitwarden.
- [173:22]
B
Yeah.
- [173:23]
C
Yep.
- [173:24]
A
Yeah. Troy Hunt was just getting off a plane. He was on a long flight, he was a little jet lagged when he got an email that purported to be from Intuit mailchimp saying oh, we had to pause your newsletter because of all the spam. If that was an error, click this button and fix it. And Troy said, I was jet lagged, I wasn't paying attention. I clicked the button. And then here's the interesting thing. He said, I wasn't worried. I had two factor. He used the two factor. But here's the thing. Of course it was a fishing site. It was. Wasn't mailchimp.
- [173:59]
D
Yep.
- [173:59]
A
And nowadays because they automate these phishing attacks, they could reuse his credentials and the two factor within 30 seconds. Y they stole his mailing list. Now to his credit, Troy, because he runs have I been pwned? Said I've been pwned. I apologize. My mailing list got out. This is how it happened. But it just shows you if it can happen to the guy guy, I mean he's a security guru. If it can happen to him, it can happen to anybody.
- [174:29]
D
Never click the button.
- [174:30]
A
Don't click the button.
- [174:32]
B
Authentication redirects are relatively rare though. So that was a extremely.
- [174:37]
A
It was a good attack. But it was probably a spear phishing attack. Right. They knew where they were going with that and they knew Troy would probably have two FA and sad.
- [174:48]
D
Not bad. Okay, that does happen, happen now.
- [174:51]
B
Now I gotta try that.
- [174:53]
A
Son of a. Do you still have the flipper zero I gave you?
- [174:57]
B
I do, I do. That thing has become extremely useful.
- [175:02]
D
I need to pick one of those.
- [175:03]
B
Up Ever increasingly digitized area of Rome.
- [175:08]
A
They call it the multi tool device for geeks. Ostensibly. I mean you can go through customs with it because it's got a little game. I don't know, it's like a snake game or something on there.
- [175:15]
B
Not anymore. They know to look for it.
- [175:17]
A
Oh.
- [175:18]
B
Yep. So when I, when I travel with that, I have to pack it into, into checked luggage. I. Oh.
- [175:23]
A
Cuz they'll, they'll say oh, you got to flip it Zero.
- [175:25]
B
They'll take it.
- [175:26]
A
Yeah, your cyber buddy, they just announced a new product. What is it? I gotta find. Where is it not on their site.
- [175:35]
B
Yeah, it's one of a new hat.
- [175:37]
A
Yeah, yeah. No, no, no, it's not for the Flipper Zero. It's. Oh, oh, oh yeah. An interesting new product, but. What, what is it? But they have an infrared transceiver. They have Bluetooth, they have everything on this thing.
- [175:53]
D
Yeah, there's all sorts of little add ons for it.
- [175:55]
A
Yeah. I didn't want to, I did not want to own one to be honest. I thought this is dangerous.
- [176:03]
B
I may have been on a Royal Caribbean cruise not too long ago and with an add on I was able to to clone the RFID on the cups that give.
- [176:15]
A
Oh no.
- [176:18]
B
I may have. Not saying I did that. I may have.
- [176:24]
A
Did you hand it to me?
- [176:25]
B
It was actually really hard.
- [176:26]
D
It was just.
- [176:27]
B
They use a non standard RFID tag on their cups.
- [176:30]
A
It was really hard.
- [176:32]
D
Yeah.
- [176:33]
A
Flipper Zero now makes the Busy bar. This is not a security product. It's a little expensive at 250 bucks. It's a little thing you tap. You can have it say on air. See, I was thinking of getting it for that. You can have it say you're busy. The idea is you put it on your desk. This is if you're still. If you did a return to office. Right. And let me see, I think it's a Kickstarter.
- [176:58]
B
You know what, that sounds kind of silly but.
- [177:02]
A
Oh no, you need this.
- [177:03]
D
That's.
- [177:04]
B
I would actually get one of those.
- [177:05]
A
Yeah, yeah, yeah. So it's. No, that's not it. Let me see if I can find it. I hate it when they have a story about something and they don't put a link.
- [177:16]
B
Now what I would really want to do is create a project, of course using my 3D printer and a couple of Arduinos to. When I engage the busy function, if someone stays in front of my desk for more than three seconds, it directs a spray of compressed air at them. That, that, that is a busy bar.
- [177:33]
A
It has a Pomodoro timer in it. It has an API so you can have it say or do anything, but the ostensible reason to have it is so that you can have it on your desk and it can shoo people away and it can say come back. It'll actually say come back in 20 minutes or something like that. 250 bucks. A little much. How much? But the Flipper Zero was cheaper than that, right?
- [177:59]
B
Yeah, Well, I mean, it was when it came out, but that. Then it became so popular that the. I mean, they were. There was a secondary market for them.
- [178:06]
A
Don't you love that little timer?
- [178:08]
D
Cool.
- [178:08]
B
I like.
- [178:08]
A
Yeah, it's a. It's. But it. But it can be programmed to say on air, if they call it a process.
- [178:17]
D
That's a decent sized device, though. It's got screens on it. Yeah.
- [178:20]
A
For 250 bucks, that's actually not a bad price. I could probably.
- [178:26]
D
It's high, but, you know. Yeah, I get it. It makes a little more sense seeing the size of it.
- [178:32]
A
Look, somebody's walking up to him and he's busy, so he hits the timer, go away. On air. That's a good one. On a call, you can actually have it using the API, integrate it with the software so that when you're on a zoom call, you can have a little sign that says, I'm on a call right now.
- [178:49]
B
You know who would love. Who would have loved this?
- [178:51]
C
Burke.
- [178:52]
B
Because he was always trying to flip on that little light that he had set up to say, shut up. Shut up. When we were being too loud.
- [178:58]
A
Remember that? In the old. In the brick house.
- [179:00]
B
Yep.
- [179:01]
A
I see the whole thing. I don't think he really got it. My idea was to have an open studio so there would be a commotion, so there'd be a live place. So I didn't mind that people were talking. That was the idea.
- [179:12]
B
Always on streaming, that was great.
- [179:14]
A
But broadcast people, like Burke said, no, no, there shouldn't be any noise. I remember we first. When we first went on the air from the brick house, I got a irate email. You know, the living room set, we had the camera in a corner facing us, and behind us was the whole studio, including the. The windows out to the street and stuff. So you would see everything going on. That was my intent. I wanted to feel like a lively. Like a maker space, like what you're going to build. And somebody sent me an irate email saying, I just saw somebody walk by behind you as you're doing iPad today with a spoon, like they're going to lunch. How dare you. I said they were.
- [179:54]
B
I mean, I did an episode of before you buy where some guy walked past the window without a shirt in his underwear.
- [180:05]
A
Nobody would do that, would they? I have a bad habit.
- [180:11]
B
Bonito can find that episode.
- [180:13]
D
Yes.
- [180:15]
A
I don't. What, was I drunk? What was the.
- [180:17]
B
I don't remember. I just remember. Remember looking at the monitor going, is that. Is that. Oh, my God. What's happening right now?
- [180:29]
D
I do miss the vibe of the cottage, though, where it was. It was sort of like. What's that radio show with the dude with the hair?
- [180:39]
A
Howard Stern.
- [180:40]
D
Yeah, it was. It had a kind of a Howard Stern vibe early on.
- [180:43]
A
Yeah.
- [180:44]
D
Because you were at the desk, and then you'd have. People would come into the studio, but they'd be sitting at the couch. Couch.
- [180:48]
A
And. Right.
- [180:49]
D
The camera up in the corner.
- [180:51]
A
Yeah, yeah.
- [180:52]
D
No, but it was. It worked, right? It was. It was cool. Yeah.
- [180:56]
A
Now I can't. I can't have anybody in the studio. It's too small. It doesn't have any room for anybody, which is sad to me. We set it up. You know, I set it up so I'd have multiple cameras and all that.
- [181:05]
D
Yeah, but. But, I mean, that's not.
- [181:08]
A
I was gonna put people in that chair, but there's a teddy bear there now, and you can't.
- [181:11]
D
You can. You can squeeze, like, one or two people in there. Probably. Probably, yeah.
- [181:16]
A
I mean, that's why we got three cameras. There's no need for three cameras. Yeah, I don't know. I'm still. It's a work in progress. All right, one last video, and then one last story, and then we will be out of here. You guys have been very patient. This is from Tony. I was doing an alphabetical order by last by first name. Tony, give us your story.
- [181:40]
C
Hello, Leo and Team twit. Congratulations on 20 years.
- [181:46]
A
That is a quite a miraculous milestone in podcasting. There are many things I'd love to say to you, Leo, but I'm going to keep this short.
- [181:56]
C
First of all, congratulations. Happy birthday.
- [181:59]
A
Made it to 20 years. You are really the reason I am doing what I do. There's a couple things I do. I have a website, I have a blog, I have a book. I have all kinds of things.
- [182:11]
C
And it really all starts started back.
- [182:13]
A
At tech TV days, and I was.
- [182:16]
C
Sitting in my living room watching you on Call for help, showing all these great applications and things that you could do on a Mac, and it really.
- [182:27]
A
Convinced me to go out and buy a Mac.
- [182:31]
C
I can't even remember, but I bought.
- [182:33]
A
A program that you demonstrated on how.
- [182:35]
C
To create a website. And I went out and created a website for my passion, which was Disney, disneybrothernumbers.com and then watching you podcast, and.
- [182:46]
A
I went out and created a podcast. So I have to credit you with.
- [182:50]
C
The things that I do as well, because without Tech TV without call for help and all the great shows there with Kevin Rose and Amber Mack and everybody. Back in the day, I probably wouldn't.
- [183:04]
A
Be doing these fun things that I do today.
- [183:06]
C
So thank you very much for your.
- [183:09]
A
Time, your effort, to everything that you put into this.
- [183:14]
C
I know it's time consuming. I know it doesn't just macrolessly appear.
- [183:18]
A
On an RSS feed.
- [183:20]
D
So thank you for everything that you.
- [183:22]
C
Do and congratulations on 20 years, and I hope you do it for another 20 more.
- [183:26]
A
Thank you, Tony. Thank you, Disney. By the Numbers, a very successful Disney podcast. We've had people. I've had people on the show who did the voice of Porky Pig, and I had a Disney illustrator do this some years ago. This was Mickey. There's a lot of Disney geeks. It's an interesting overlap between Disney and twit. I don't know. I don't know what that is. I guess everybody loves Disney and a small portion of the Venn diagram also loves twit. Maybe that's what it really is. Anyway, thank you, Tony. Thanks to everybody who sent letters and videos. And I think I've got everybody in. I hope I did. Thanks to all the people who've made twit. You know what it is after all, all these 20 years, and Father Robert, it's been a pleasure knowing you. Somebody asked in the discord, does Robert ever age? Because you don't. You don't.
- [184:24]
B
I'm not allowed to. I'm contractually obligated not to.
- [184:26]
A
Yeah.
- [184:27]
D
Like fine wine.
- [184:28]
A
Yes. It feels like.
- [184:29]
B
Well, we've. We've perfected telomere therapy here in the Vatican.
- [184:32]
A
I think that might be it.
- [184:34]
B
Of those things.
- [184:35]
A
Roberto found the video of me on my ball. Listen to that. This is. Oh, yeah. Oh, dear. I punched a hole in my ball.
- [184:47]
D
I think you changed the c. Did you change the camera? Terrible. Change the camera. There you go.
- [184:51]
B
Terrible.
- [184:51]
A
That's it. I thought I was going to sink slowly. I'm sinking. But as it turns out, it doesn't. It was a slow leak. It's the best I watched.
- [185:08]
D
I watched that live and I almost fell out of my chair.
- [185:14]
A
That's what happens when you buy cheap Chinese balls. Well, good news. Those balls aren't cheap anymore, ladies and gentlemen.
- [185:22]
B
We had a whole rack of them at the. At the Brick House.
- [185:24]
A
We did.
- [185:25]
C
Remember?
- [185:25]
A
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I stick with these. Ultra fit, anti burst. That's the key. Stability ball. I recommend it. Anti Burke. Stability ball. Somebody also found. I might as well play it the. The video of The Harlem Shuffle where. This is in the brick house where I do remember this fad. It was a very brief fad where people would be in an office or whatever and then they would. They would just burst into song and dance and they would often wear. Wear like horse heads and different animals.
- [186:06]
D
Oh, yeah, yeah.
- [186:07]
A
And then so I thought, well, we should. We should do the Harlem Shuffle here in the studio. But what I didn't know. Oh, gosh, you know what? There's so many great posts in here, I'm having trouble finding it. What I didn't know was that I couldn't really safely stand on that table. So here we are.
- [186:25]
B
Not a weight bearing table. No.
- [186:27]
A
This is Dvorak on the far left. Rafe Needleman to my right. Jason Snell is there. Somebody's on the avatar. This is in the brick house. We thought we'll do our version of the Harlem shape. And there's a kid in the robot head. That was from the OMG craft show.
- [186:51]
C
And then.
- [186:53]
A
And then we all get up and do the thing with a horse's head. But I made the mistake of stepping on the table and I am not exactly a lightweight and I broke it. Burke did fix it. Ah, Burke did fix it. He put. It was. Anyway, we, we. That was a long time ago.
- [187:22]
D
It was a whole thing.
- [187:23]
A
It was a whole thing.
- [187:24]
D
The audio version of the ball burst. The first ball burst.
- [187:28]
A
Yes.
- [187:28]
D
I think that was when you had. It was one of the better grade ones, let's just say. And so it was. So even though you had the Heil mic and it was audio only, that's the one where you can actually. You heard it pop.
- [187:42]
A
It went boom.
- [187:44]
D
It was. Yes. There was just like a.
- [187:45]
A
That was in the cottage upstairs. That was in the old, old place. From Justin. I've been listening since the Revenge of the Screensavers. That was the very first one that was on a desktop PC at my mom's house when I was in high school. Pretty sure I was using the Windows version of itunes back then. I don't know. I don't think so. One of my highlights was getting to meet Leo at the east side studios. My wife planned a trip to Petaluma into our California road trip. I even remember smashing my elbow into the side of the set, which made a stronger memory. Yeah. Proud to be a club twit member. Big thank you to Leo, all of the hosts and all of the behind the scenes staff from Justin. Thank you, Justin. Bill wrote I watched Leo on the screensavers on tech TV and was heartbroken when it ended. But I kept up with Leo and was excited when the podcast was announced. I remember downloading the first episode and loading it into my old Panasonic MP3 player. That you plugged into your computer. Yep. And dragged songs onto like a thumb drive. I'm sure that Leo would agree that none of us could have known back then where this journey would take us. I do. It's a been a mind blow blower. I've enjoyed the TWiT network from before it was a network through the present day. The hosts have informed, inspired and entertained me for the last 20 years. The shows come into my life multiple times every week and I still look forward to each one. Just like that impromptu first episode. Since I first started listening and watching, my daughters have been born and grown to adulthood. I've changed. Jobs and houses and towns at your shows have been one constant in my life.
- [189:24]
D
Life.
- [189:25]
A
No matter where I've gone or what I've been through, Twit has been in my life. Happy birthday, twit. You've been a wonderful gift to me. Here's hoping for another 20 years. Thank you, Bill. Thank you, Bill. That's really great. Oh, here's one more from the farm.
- [189:42]
C
Hi and welcome to the Farm.
- [189:43]
D
My name is Michael Smith.
- [189:44]
A
I'm an IT professional here in South Carolina and an avid TWiT TV fan. My favorite shows are TWiT, MacBreak Weekly, Security now and my all time favorite Windows Weekly.
- [189:57]
C
Pictured my liver and my wallet both.
- [189:59]
A
Hate you, but my palette doesn't you. And this, this is where I listen to my Twit podcast. Who would have thought we'd have two tractor video? Now that's a deer, right? And that looks like in fact that's how he knew it was a harrow. He's also driving a harrow. Honey and eggs. Wait a minute. What are you up to? But seriously, Leo, congratulations on 20 years. 20 years. That, that is amazing. And I'll see you on your next podcast. Come join me on YouTube.
- [190:42]
D
Messi Homestead.
- [190:43]
A
See you there. We're almost as old as his tractor. I love it. Thank you so much. That is awesome. That is awesome. So that's a 60 year old tractor that he restored. A John Deere Number 5 Sickle Bar Mower.
- [191:03]
B
We can use.
- [191:04]
A
I think we can use AI to.
- [191:05]
B
Make that pull out turn into the Twit logo in the grass.
- [191:08]
D
I bet you we can make that happen.
- [191:10]
A
If you can do that would be hysterical.
- [191:12]
D
Anthony, get on it.
- [191:13]
A
Get on it, Anthony. Yeah, he gives us permission. Jammer B has been Posting memories in our Discord. That's the place to be if you want to keep the party going. Our Club Twit Discord is available to everybody who's a member of the club for $7 a month. And we've brought back, I'm very pleased to say, the annual plan by popular demand, mostly by demand from my wonderful wife and our executive producer, Lisa. So she demanded it and we brought it back. So if you want to join the club, seven bucks a month or $84 a year, you get ad free versions of all the shows. You get access to the Discord. You wish you were there right now because it's really kind of a party going on in there with all of the folks showing pictures and so forth. Please join the Club Twit TV Club Twit. Father Robert Ballis there, the Digital Jesuit. Thank you for staying up late with us on Holy Week. You're going to be. This is a tough week for you. I completely forgot. I am so grateful to you.
- [192:15]
B
No, I mean, I wouldn't have missed this. I mean, Twitch's a big part of my life, Leo.
- [192:19]
A
Oh, I'm so.
- [192:20]
B
Any chance I get, I'll come back.
- [192:21]
A
Well, you're a darn big part of our life, and I love your new plan, which we won't say anything about in public, but I love it.
- [192:28]
B
It may take a few years to materialize because I have to get permission to leave Rome for first, but he.
- [192:34]
A
Responds to a higher authority.
- [192:36]
B
I do. I do. But once it's built, I mean, there's definitely going to be a studio there among the makerspace.
- [192:42]
A
So I hope so. I hope so. I really look forward to that. Thank you, Robert, for being here. Thanks to Sam Abou Salmit, who is also with us, but had to depart a little bit early. And of course, Alan Malvantano. You tried like the dickens to get Patrick Norton to make it. He couldn't.
- [192:57]
D
I tried. He was. He was happy in, like, for the first. When I first asked him, he's like, oh, yeah, yeah, I could probably do that. And then, like, a few days went by and he was like, oh, no, that's.
- [193:07]
A
I can't do it.
- [193:08]
B
That's.
- [193:08]
A
It's about what I. That's.
- [193:09]
D
He tried.
- [193:10]
A
He tries, and I love him for that. I also asked Kevin Rose. He couldn't make it. But you know what? I'm glad I had you guys on. This is. This has been wonderful. Thank you so much. And really, this show, our 20th anniversary show, was really all about honoring the fabulous audience members of our community forever. The Twit army forever. Thank you, guys. I really appreciate it. Thanks to all of you for joining us. Next it'll. Next time it'll be Easter Sunday. I don't know if we're going to be able to get anybody to show up for that. We'll see. It'll be interesting.
- [193:44]
D
I think there were some names on the.
- [193:46]
A
Are there some names on there?
- [193:47]
B
We're going to roll the credits. You've got a full schedule?
- [193:49]
D
Yeah, yeah.
- [193:50]
A
Okay, good. We got a full, full.
- [193:52]
D
You got, you got at least a couple in there. All right. For next week, we hope you'll be.
- [193:56]
A
Here Sundays, 2 to 5pm as we. We always have been on Sunday. For some reason, I guess it just made sense. 2 to 5pm Pacific. That's 5 to 8pm Eastern time. It's the middle of the gosh darn night. Vatican time, 2100 UTC. We invite you to watch live if you'd like. We are on seven, seven, eight different platforms. If you include discord for our club members, there's Also TWIT, Twitch TV, YouTube.comx.com TikTok, Facebook, LinkedIn and Kik 8 different live streams. And if you're chatting with us in the live streams, I see all the different chats. So we love having you, but you don't have to join us live. We, we absolutely have room for you. Anytime that you want to watch, just download a copy of the show from the website Twit TV. There's also a YouTube channel. You can go there at any time and watch the YouTube videos. YouTube.comTWIT all of our shows have a dedicated YouTube channel. And of course, after the fact, you can subscribe in your favorite podcast player and listen whenever you gosh darn want to, audio or video. I'm going to roll a list of the 389 people who have appeared on this show and say, great having you all. It's been a wonderful 20 years. And as a number of the videos said, yeah, let's go for another 20 more. Why not? We're still having fun, right? Thanks for joining us. As I've said for the last 20 years, another twit is in the can. And now all the people who've made this show possible. Thank you, everybody. Have a great night. Here's to 20 Moore. Thank you everybody. What a pleasure. This was worked out better than I actually thought it would.
- [195:46]
D
Yeah, it worked out good.
- [195:47]
A
It was really fun. Yeah, really was fun because, you know, it was nice. We had a great variety. Some really, it was a lot of different, interesting stuff. It worked out very well.
- [195:55]
B
Natalie, I miss.
- [195:57]
A
Yeah, remember Natalie? Yeah, she. She went off and ran off with Clayton Luria. Remember Cali Lewis? There's so many names on here, right? So many wonderful people. I think this is in the order. Kara Swisher, in the order of the number of times they appeared on the show. Correct. I think what we got here.
- [196:15]
B
So now if you could find. When we get down to one, like one. The. The one off. Guess.
- [196:20]
A
I'll tell you when one happens because it'll be up. Adam's five.
- [196:25]
B
That's five, right?
- [196:25]
A
Yeah. Emily's five. Lexi, maybe. No, no.
- [196:36]
D
Are these. These in like quasi chronological.
- [196:39]
A
No, they're in order of number of appearances. So now we're at one.
- [196:42]
B
I believe Sherilyn has only been on once.
- [196:46]
A
Yeah, I think we're on one. All these people have appeared on one show, and it's a long ways.
- [196:55]
B
Only done one.
- [196:56]
A
Yeah.
- [196:56]
D
I think you. I think you guys missed me because I've been in three or four.
- [197:00]
A
Oh, you didn't see your name.
- [197:01]
D
Oh, was I.
- [197:02]
B
Was I on there?
- [197:03]
A
Oh, yeah, you're. You're in here.
- [197:04]
D
Okay.
- [197:05]
B
You know, you were on the third episode of TWI.
- [197:07]
A
Computers Never Make Mistakes was on the.
- [197:10]
D
Third episode of TWi. Huh?
- [197:11]
B
On the third episode of TWi.
- [197:13]
D
Padre Man. You. You. I. I had to, like. I felt like I was not filling large enough shoes every time I was on TWI because you would just shower me with just way too much trade.
- [197:25]
A
Isn't he just like. Isn't Padre fantastic?
- [197:27]
D
It's just like I. I felt like I was like the. The king of freaking everything after.
- [197:32]
A
Well, we have to sell you up. I mean, you are a submariner, a nuclear. A nuclear engineer and an intelligence. You used to contract to the nsa. You have some pretty hot damn credentials there, boy.
- [197:45]
D
I've had. I've had a few careers.
- [197:47]
A
You've done a few things. You're my S.S. leo.
- [197:53]
B
Leo's thing. He used to tell me that you need to make your guests shine. You have to make them comfortable. That was the whole point.
- [197:59]
C
Yeah.
- [197:59]
D
Yeah.
- [198:00]
A
You don't have to kiss their ass, but you come pretty darn close.
- [198:05]
B
No asking his kissing involved. It was all about letting them express their expertise.
- [198:09]
A
That was exactly. I don't know.
- [198:11]
C
I don't know.
- [198:12]
D
I didn't want to bring up there on the show, but, you know, a good thing to reminisce on is the old female as Leo spit take when he learned that I worked at the nsa.
- [198:20]
A
Yes. That was a bit of a shock.
- [198:23]
D
Yeah, I dropped that on him. Sitting next to him on Twit.
- [198:30]
A
Amazing.