This Week in Tech (TWiT) 1029: Never Lick a Badger Twice

Date: April 27, 2025
Host: Leo Laporte
Guests: Kathy Gellis (Techdirt, Attorney), Daniel Rubino (Windows Central), Abrar Al Heiti (CNET)

Episode Overview

This week, Leo Laporte and the TWiT panel take on a jam-packed week of tech news: from antitrust remedies against Google, the shifting tides in AI and browser markets, to Nintendo Switch 2 shortages and the rise of modular electric vehicles. Special attention is paid to tension between user control and AI advancement, legal and privacy dilemmas with new tech, and some irrepressible Internet culture moments. The show blends hard news with expert opinion and plenty of lively banter.

Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. The "Obsolescence" of Prompt Engineering Jobs (05:04)

• Discussion:
  Reports from the Wall Street Journal claim that AI advancements have rendered prompt engineering—the hot job of 2023—largely obsolete, as systems now better intuit user intent.
• Daniel Rubino (06:02):
  “It seemed pretty weird to have…prompt engineering stuff because people were creating…very specific on the type of lens or film. But you’d think that over time, AI would get smart enough to figure out what you mean.”
• Panel’s Take:
  This is a natural evolution. Kathy Gellis humorously notes ethical absurdities around treating AIs with “politeness” and the mounting conversation about AI “welfare”—with most agreeing this is premature.

2. AI Awareness, "Model Welfare", and Human Sentience Comparisons (07:02)

• Leo Laporte (07:02):
  Reads from a story on the idea of “model welfare”—whether AIs might soon deserve moral status.
• Kathy Gellis (07:48):
  “We haven’t invented Mr. Data yet...If we convince ourselves AI is already true artificial intelligence, we create more trouble for ourselves.”
• Daniel Rubino (08:32):
  “Everybody throws 'consciousness' around...We don’t know how to measure it.”
• Memorable Quote:
  “The AI will get so good, it'll act like a person and we'll get tricked.” – Rubino (08:38)

3. User Control v. AI Utility and Privacy (13:21)

• Feature Spotlight:
  Microsoft’s Recall for Windows 11 Copilot+ PCs collects screenshots and user activity for local, queryable AI recall.
• Kathy Gellis (14:23):
  Raises sharp professional and ethical concerns: “I'm at the mercy of this technology and I'm not going to be able to meet my ethical duties. This is a problem...We’re leaping over an important step; we need control before we use these cool features.”
• Daniel Rubino (16:11):
  Explains that Recall is off by default, all local, with strong controls.
• Kathy on Biometrics (17:51):
  Refuses facial or fingerprint sign-in: “Facial recognition on your devices is a Fourth and Fifth Amendment disaster.”
• Leo Laporte summarizes the user divide (19:11):
  “Interesting point…there are people like you, Kathy, who say, ‘Never!’; people like me who want more.”

4. The AI “Need” Debate (20:42)

• Broad Comparison:
  Abrar is AI-wary as a writer; Leo: “Probably nobody needs AI. You might want it. Nobody needs a smartphone, either.”
• Daniel Rubino (20:58):
  Recalls the transition on new tech: “There was a period where I had to try to convince my friends that smartphones were going to be a big thing…”

5. Google Monopoly, Chrome, and Browser Antitrust Remedies (29:22–44:59)

• Antitrust Context:
  US government proposes radical remedy: Google could be forced to divest Chrome.
• Kathy Gellis (29:22):
  “It’s a weird thing to say only Google can run Chrome…What do you get when you buy an open source project?”
• Abrar Al Heiti (30:41):
  Critiques government understanding: “I don’t know what is solved if OpenAI then acquires Chrome…Has that fixed anything?”
• Leo Laporte (34:56):
  Describes the browser as now “almost an operating system.”
• Daniel Rubino (36:35):
  On effect of browser defaults: "Even like with Gemini…Microsoft has Copilot, people have to download that. It does…feel unfair."
• Switching Search Study (36:35):
  Stanford/U Penn/MIT found paid users willing to use Bing, with some sticking to it after the trial.
• Daniel Rubino (38:58):
  “Bing is not as good outside the US as it is inside.”
• Kathy Gellis (39:15):
  “This whole lawsuit is…ridiculous... It clearly isn't a monopoly in that we're talking about how you can use Bing and you can use…”
• Leo Laporte (45:04):
  Reminder: the court ruled on search, not browser monopoly, but browsers (Chrome) feed data that powers Google's search dominance.
• Notable Moment:
  Browser tab hoarding confessions.
  “120 tabs is nothing. Add a zero and you might get my current…” – Kathy Gellis (47:21)

6. Social Media Is Dead? Zuckerberg Testifies (56:09)

• Zuckerberg’s Testimony:
  Social media now largely about entertainment, not connecting with friends.
• Panel Reaction:
  • Abrar notes this aligns with how people use TikTok and Instagram now.
  • Kathy: “He has so little intuition for the needs and desires of his users... If Zuckerberg had followed what users wanted, he wouldn't be saying 'oops' right now.”
• On timelines:
  • Leo: “In 2009…the huge uproar was over Facebook moving to the news feed.”
  • Daniel: “It’s all about time on site…”
• On ‘breaking up’ Meta:
  “One of the things that’s going to come out of this case is splitting Facebook, Instagram, WhatsApp.” – Leo (66:42)
• Kathy (68:18):
  Worries WhatsApp may not stand alone financially; Facebook’s primary intent possibly was for messaging encryption tech.

7. Google Search AI, Publisher Woes, and AI Overviews (76:09)

• Recent news:
  Google reverses plan to abandon third-party cookies after advertiser pushback (76:09); strong Q1 financials.
• AI Results Humor:
  “Never wash a rabbit in a cabbage” gets a fabricated AI Overviews answer.
  Abrar (78:41): “When I want a saying, I’ll Google it…AI will always support whatever I’ve typed…”
• Publisher Impact:
  Leo admits using AI to summarize news, sometimes without a clickthrough, which is increasingly a direct threat to publishers.

8. Modular Cars, $20,000 Pickups, and EV Disruption (113:36)

• Feature:
  The $20,000 electric pickup, “Slate Truck,” built for modularity—no bells and whistles, bring-your-own entertainment (phone dock), easy to upgrade or repair.
• Kathy Gellis (113:47):
  “Cars have gotten over-complicated…You start with the basics, you can add things to make it the car you want.”
• Backed by Jeff Bezos:
  Leo: “Suddenly it gets a lot more interesting, doesn’t it?”
• Daniel Rubino (119:36):
  Praises the direct-to-consumer model (like Tesla), abolishing dealership headaches and unnecessary costs.

9. Miscellaneous Tech News (98:41–110:00)

Apple Moving iPhone Production to India

• Apple accelerates shift as tariffs/trade war bite.
• Abrar (99:04):
  “They’ve been trying to diversify for a while…this is the big push.”
• Still, many parts must come from China, and no short-term hope of large-scale US manufacturing.

Nintendo Switch 2 Pre-Orders

• Sold out instantly, limited to users/adults with Switch play history to avoid scalpers.
• Daniel Rubino: Happy with Steam Deck, but admits Switch’s design focus on hand-held gaming is appealing.

10. Legal & Privacy Deep Dive: DOGE (Department of Government Efficiency) and Data Access (133:49)

• DOGE personnel have gained privileged access to sensitive government PII (e.g., Social Security numbers) under ambiguous, arguably extra-legal circumstances.
• Kathy Gellis (138:29):
  Details the Privacy Act’s intent to compartmentalize sensitive data and why “fishing expeditions” violate privacy and likely the Constitution as well as statute.
• Court Action:
  Temporary restraints are issued, potential for lasting changes, but likely significant irrevocable privacy breaches have already occurred.
• Whistleblower concerns (144:04) about data exfiltration from NLRB—no investigation.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

Prompt Engineering is on the wane:

“You would think that over time, the AI would get smart enough to really just figure out what you mean.”
— Daniel Rubino (06:02)

On AI-welfare handwringing:

“We haven’t invented Mr. Data yet.”
— Kathy Gellis (07:48)

User/AI Control Divide:

“I'm at the mercy of this technology and I'm not going to be able to meet my ethical duties.”
— Kathy Gellis (14:23)

AI & Tech as Tools:

“Nobody needs AI. Nobody needs a smartphone either. Nobody needs an iPod.”
— Leo Laporte (20:51)

Tab Hoarding Confessions:

“120 tabs is nothing. Add at least a zero and you might get my current…”
— Kathy Gellis (47:21)

Zuckerberg: Social is Over:

“The company has lately been involved in…entertainment and learning about the world — not so much about your friends.”
— Mark Zuckerberg (read by Leo, 56:24)

Browser Wars Redux:

“The speculated remedy—sell Chrome—is going to make the public worse off…I hope the judge is smart enough to know that.”
— Kathy Gellis (32:12)

New EVs:

“The function of what you need is not that significant... With modularity you can pick what you want, and you can do a lot more via aftermarket."
— Kathy Gellis (113:47)

Leo’s Sign-Off:

“As I have said for 20 years now, in our 21st year, another TWiT is in the can. Never lick a badger twice.” — Leo Laporte (155:54)

Timestamps of Important Segments

| Segment | Timestamp | |------------------------------------------------|------------------| | Intro & AI Prompt Engineering Obsolete | 05:04 – 08:38 | | Model Welfare & Nature of AI | 07:02 – 09:36 | | User Control vs. AI Power in Windows | 13:10 – 19:11 | | AI Usage, History, and 'Need' | 20:11 – 21:47 | | Google Antitrust / Chrome Sale | 29:22 – 44:59 | | Browser Tab Hoarding & Alternatives | 47:21 – 51:04 | | Zuckerberg: Social Media Is Over | 56:09 – 65:21 | | AI Search, Publisher Woes | 76:09 – 81:17 | | Modular Pickup, EV Disruption, Bezos Involvement| 113:36 – 125:07 | | Legal: DOGE, Privacy, and Data Access | 133:49 – 146:27 |

Tone & Style

• Conversational, sometimes irreverent, but informed by each panelist’s expertise (legal, consumer, editorial, tech).
• Frequent inclusion of audience and “chat room” feedback.
• Willingness to acknowledge nuance—rarely a simple answer to complex tech problems.

For Listeners

If you missed the show, this episode delivers a dense but entertaining survey of the week’s most pressing tech, legal, and consumer stories—with an emphasis on the complexity behind the headlines and a running commentary on how technology shapes (and sometimes ignores) the actual needs of real people.

Memorable Closing:

“You know what I always say, you can't lick a badger twice. I think that's pretty obvious by now.” — Leo Laporte (82:52)