Extra: Sen. Thom Tillis One-on-One with Jonathan Karl

Summary

This Week with George Stephanopoulos

Extra: Sen. Thom Tillis One-on-One with Jonathan Karl (March 24, 2026)

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Episode Overview

In this candid, wide-ranging conversation, ABC’s Jonathan Karl interviews outgoing Senator Thom Tillis (R-NC), one of the few prominent Republicans openly critical of the Trump White House. The discussion covers Tillis’s opposition to Trump-backed legislation, his insights on the internal dynamics and decision-making within the administration, US foreign policy in hotspots like Iran, America’s relationship with NATO, the electoral prospects for Republicans in the coming midterms, and reflections on his own legacy as he prepares to retire from public office. Tillis speaks bluntly and directly, unfiltered by electoral concerns.

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Key Topics & Insights

1. The Save America Act and GOP Legislative Strategy

[00:27–04:42]

• Tillis clarifies his opposition:
  He doesn't oppose the content of the Save America Act outright, but criticizes the "process" by which it’s being pushed, describing it as political theater unlikely to produce results.
  • “I'm not against the Save Act. I've got bills ratified in North Carolina for voter ID. But there's a way to do it. There's a right way and a wrong way to do it.” — Tillis [01:42]
• Critique of Republican strategy:
  Tillis argues that Republican leaders should not bring doomed bills to the floor, and warns that performative losses don’t excite the party base in the long run.
  • “They're telling you they're fighting for you, and they know they're going to lose this fight. So what good is it for us long term? And how honest is that with our Republican base?” — Tillis [02:24]
• On banning mail-in voting:
  Tillis calls the idea impractical, especially for rural states, and notes that absentee voting works well in many Republican-led states.
  • “It's probably less prone to fraud if you do it right, like North Carolina, Alaska, Montana, all red states, than somebody walking up with a fake ID on election day.” — Tillis [03:32]
• No evidence for claims of mass illegal voting:
  He says he found no fraud that would’ve overturned the 2024 election.
  • “There are always some voter improprieties, [but] there were none that would have changed the election result.” — Tillis [04:42]

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2. On Standing Up to Trump, White House Dynamics, and Sycophancy

[05:19–09:22]

• Relationship with Trump:
  Tillis maintains he has a “healthy relationship” with Trump, but blames the President’s advisers rather than Trump himself for policy missteps.
  • “I do not admire bad advice and I hate bad execution. And when I see it, and I think it's undermining the President of the United States agenda, then I'm going to call him out.” — Tillis [05:53]
• On Trump’s inner circle and Stephen Miller:
  He singles out adviser Stephen Miller for criticism, accusing him of being self-serving rather than loyal to the President or country.
  • “I know that he's got a special relationship with the president. But believe me when I tell you, if the president thinks that Stephen Miller is worried about his legacy, he's fooling himself. Stephen Miller is worried about his own legacy.” — Tillis [08:51]
  • Cites Miller's public comments on acquiring Greenland as an example of damaging, unserious behavior that offended US allies.
    • “That is absolutely the proverbial straw.” — Tillis [07:31]
• Accountability and Trump’s choices:
  Karl presses whether Trump bears responsibility for his appointees and advisers. Tillis deflects partial blame, again criticizing those around the President for not offering sound advice.

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3. Foreign Policy: Iran, the Strait of Hormuz, and NATO

[10:31–15:38]

• On U.S. objectives in Iran:
  Tillis says the Trump administration lacks clear goals now, compared to earlier interventions (e.g., Venezuela).
  • “It's ambiguous. I don't know what our long-term strategic goals are, but we're going to need to know that.” — Tillis [10:40]
• Military funding:
  Questions the $200 billion supplemental request, tying support to clear objectives and Democratic votes.
  • “If it's going beyond a 60 day horizon, then we really do need to talk about the authorization for the use of military force and longer term funding trails.” — Tillis [11:51]
• The Strait of Hormuz:
  Disagrees with Trump's assertion that the US can just walk away because it’s “not our oil,” citing broad global supply chain impacts and alliance responsibilities.
  • “We can't all of a sudden go out there and intervene the way we have and then suddenly become an isolationist...You can't have it both ways.” — Tillis [12:42]
• Trump accusing NATO of cowardice:
  Tillis rejects that label, explaining NATO wasn’t consulted and resents being drawn into conflicts post hoc.
  • “These folks love the United States...but they don't appreciate the way they're being treated right now. And I can absolutely understand that.” — Tillis [14:09]
• Can Trump unilaterally exit NATO?
  Tillis clarifies congressional authority in the treaty, referencing legislation passed to prevent a unilateral exit.
  • “The President of the United States cannot withdraw from NATO. Now, having said that, the president can poison the well...But I would really encourage him to take the top 100 generals...you'd be hard pressed to find one [who supports withdrawal].” — Tillis [15:22]

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4. Tillis on Retirement, Party Trajectory, and the 2026 Midterm Elections

[19:10–26:04]

• Speaking freely post-retirement:
  Tillis admits he's more plainspoken without reelection pressures.
  • “When people have said, ‘you seem a little bit more liberated,’ I said, ‘no, Sherlock. I no longer have to view things through a political lens.’” — Tillis [19:52]
• Republican election strategy:
  Warns that betting on turnout from "ultra MAGA" voters is not enough to win battleground states.
  • “If you think that the state of North Carolina can be won through just the ultra MAGA vote, you haven’t passed fifth grade math.” — Tillis [20:44]
  • Emphasizes the need to soften the party’s image and appeal beyond the base, or risk losing the Senate.
    • “We could wake up on Wednesday morning and find out we're not in the majority anymore in the Senate. And that's the last thing that I want to have happen here.” — Tillis [21:17]
• On the party's current trajectory:
  Sees additional headwinds beyond the usual for off-year elections, including economic issues and Republican infighting.
  • “If we don’t get some of these pocketbook issues done, that will be additional headwinds beyond the traditional...” — Tillis [21:34]
• JD Vance and party leadership:
  Considers the party's future leadership a "jump ball," with Vance as one contender, not a shoo-in.
  • “J.D. will probably have the President's support...But my goodness, I could see, you know, seven or eight people trying to get into the race.” — Tillis [22:19]
• On legacy and what’s next:
  Plans to focus his last months on governance, supporting Republicans, and resisting populist policy shifts. He rules out any future runs for office.
  • “Everybody talks about, you know, how they want term limits and then they go, well, we want you to run again. So everybody wants term limits on everybody but the person they like. I think the best we could do now is you term limit yourself.” — Tillis [25:03]

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Notable Quotes & Moments

• On process, not content:
  “I'm not against the Save Act...But there's a way to do it. There's a right way and a wrong way to do it.” — Tillis [01:42]
• On legislative honesty:
  “They're telling you they're fighting for you, and they know they're going to lose this fight. So what good is it for us long-term? And how honest is that with our Republican base?” — Tillis [02:24]
• On Stephen Miller:
  “Stephen Miller is worried about his own legacy.” — Tillis [08:51]
• On his plainspokenness in retirement:
  “No, Sherlock. I no longer have to view things through a political lens.” — Tillis [19:52]
• Electoral pragmatism:
  “If you think that the state of North Carolina can be won through just the ultra MAGA vote, you haven’t passed fifth grade math.” — Tillis [20:44]
• On term limits:
  “I think the best we could do now is you term limit yourself. And don't be so arrogant as to think you're the only person in the state of North Carolina that can be an effective senator.” — Tillis [25:03]

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• 00:27 — Start of Tillis interview, opposition to "Save America" act
• 03:32 — Practicality of mail-in voting; fraud allegations
• 05:19 — On giving advice to Trump, White House inner circle
• 07:31 — On Stephen Miller and Trump’s advisers
• 10:31 — US objectives in Iran
• 12:42 — The global importance of the Strait of Hormuz
• 14:09 — Tillis defends NATO, opposes Trump’s harsh rhetoric
• 15:22 — Legal impossibility of unilateral NATO withdrawal
• 19:10 — On feeling liberated after announcing retirement
• 20:44 — The futility of a “base only” GOP strategy
• 22:19 — JD Vance and GOP’s future leadership
• 23:28 — Tillis’s final goals in Congress, his legacy
• 25:03 — On retirement, term limits, and not running again

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Tone and Style

Tillis’s responses are frank, sometimes wry, and unvarnished—especially in critiques of his own party’s internal dysfunction and strategies. He combines expert knowledge with political realism, emphasizing coalition-building over purity and underscoring the need for honesty with voters and good governance above performing for the cameras.

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This episode provides a rare, behind-the-scenes look at the mind of a senior Republican as he prepares to exit national politics. It's essential listening for anyone interested in the current state—and possible future—of the GOP.

Transcript

[Narrator/Host]

This episode is brought to you by Progressive Insurance. Do you ever think about switching insurance companies to see if you could save some cash? Progressive makes it easy to see if you could save when you bundle your home in auto policies. Try [e-mail] Progressive Casualty Insurance Company and affiliates. Potential savings will vary. Not available in all states. ABC News Live presents Senator Thom Tillis one on one with Jonathan Karl.

[Jonathan Karl]

North Carolina Senator Thom Tillis has been one of the few Republicans in Congress who has been willing to stand up to the Trump administration. When Tillis came out against the so called one big beautiful bill, President Trump's signature tax and spending bill, Trump blasted him as a talker and a complainer, not a doer. Less than 24 hours later, Tillis announced his plan to retire. Trump called that great news. Tillis is also a no on the Save America act, now Trump's top legislative priority. He stands firmly with NATO and he has criticized what he calls the sycophants, toadies and bootlickers in the Trump White House. But despite all of that, Tillis says he and the President are on good terms and that he only wants Trump to be a successful President. Here is my exclusive interview with Senator Thom Tillis. So the Senate is tied up now debating the Save America act, something that Donald Trump has called a fight for the soul of our nation. And he has said that anybody who votes against it is sick, demented, or deranged. So I'm tempted to ask whether or not you are sick, demented or deranged because you oppose this bill.

[Senator Thom Tillis]

Well, say I don't oppose the bill. I oppose the process. You know, we can't get to 60 votes. So we're on the floor taking better part of a week already to discuss something that's not effectively a talking filibuster. Not going to become law. And in fact, if we want it to become law, we should be instructed by the fact that it's at odds with very important mail in ballot voting in three or four Republican states. So, look, I get the rhetoric and the President's really good at it, but I'm not against the Save Act. I've got bills ratified in North Carolina for voter id. But there's a way to do it. There's a right way and a wrong

[Jonathan Karl]

way to do it, but you're against the current, the way this is now conceived.

[Senator Thom Tillis]

Yeah, because it's not going to work. You know, I don't know. You know, I get saying we've got to show our base we're fighting, but if we fight and lose. Is our base really that excited over time, you know, I can see, you know, maybe losing a battle, but winning the war. But this is. This is just not a viable strategy. You know, I never put a bill down on the floor as speaker of the House that wasn't going to be successful. And that included overriding vetoes of Democrat governors with Democrat votes. You do the homework up front. You get the legislation right, you get the votes in order, and you execute. That's the problem I have with this process. There's no strategic rudder in the ground. And I'm not. I'm not criticizing Senator Thune. Senator Thune's got to do what he, what he has to to keep our conference together. But I'm just saying the people that are going out there saying they're fighting for you, they're knowingly. They're telling you they're fighting for you, and they know they're going to lose this fight. So what good is it for us long term? And how honest is that with our Republican base?

[Jonathan Karl]

But this idea of banning almost all mail in voting, which is something the President's called for repeatedly, this is what he wants in this bill.

[Senator Thom Tillis]

I mean, well, it sounds super cool. Unless you're about 800 miles away from your nearest voting location in Alaska, or if you're in a remote area of Montana, or if you're somebody who may have a legitimate reason, maybe family duties or something, you're responsible and you request a ballot and you get it in North Carolina. Look, we went through the absentee ballot voting process when we did election law reform, we saw no reason to eliminate it. As a matter of fact, it's probably less prone to fraud if you do it right, like North Carolina, Alaska, Montana, all red states, than somebody walking up with a fake ID on election day. And so, I mean, I get that we should always be looking at voter integrity, but you should not be negating absentee ballot voting laws in red states that are very happy with it. And we're winning in absentee ballot voting. Why would we take that off the table?

[Jonathan Karl]

And the bottom line is there's talk that this is to fix a problem of, you know, millions of illegal undocumented immigrants voting. There's no evidence of that, is there?

[Senator Thom Tillis]

No, I don't think so. Look, when I decided to on election day, or, I'm sorry, prior to the certification of the election on January 6, I went through a methodical process that reached to various legislative leaders for states in question, and I concluded in my discussions with them under the Radar not subject to press review that the elections, although there are always some voter improprieties, that there were none that would have changed the election result, the 11,000 votes in Georgia and some of the other states in question. And that's how I arrived at a conclusion that I was going to certify the election.

[Jonathan Karl]

So you've gone up against the President's or the President or his policies or his cabinet really vocally. I mean, you obviously were among the first to really go after Kristi Noem. You called out the efforts to prosecute Democrats who made that video. You obviously, in terms of the subpoena against the Fed chairman, Jerome Powell, you made it very clear, totally against, that you won't vote for a, a new Fed chairman until it's done away with. How does the President take all that?

[Senator Thom Tillis]

You know, I generally, I still have what I believe to be a healthy relationship with the President. I don't criticize the President. You know, people say, well, you're dodging, criticizing the President. Look, the President of the United States is like a CEO at any large complex multinational organization. He can't be an expert in everything. The only thing he can do is get the right people to advise him because, my goodness, just look at the complexity of the job. So invariably, there's one of two ways you can give advice, bad advice to the President of the United States. One of them is come up with a really bad idea and sell him on it. The other one is he comes up with an idea that maybe not so good and you say, great, great idea, boss. Either way, you've got to say, Mr. President, have you looked around this corner? Have you seen the second and third order of effects that may occur? Are we sure that this fits with other priorities that you have? And I just think that he either has sycophants or cowards around him that need to get out of the way so that we can establish a good, solid, enduring legacy of the President producing good results. The President's been very good to me at a personal level. I like him a lot. I mean, I've called the man on a Sunday morning and said, hey, my mom would just love the chance to talk with you. You have a, you know, for five minutes. So there are aspects about this president that I admire and will always admire, but I do not admire bad advice and I hate bad execution. And when I see it, and I think it's undermining the President of the United States agenda, then I'm going to call him out.

[Jonathan Karl]

So who are these sycophants and cowards.

[Senator Thom Tillis]

Well, you know, I'm not going to get into details. I think I've shared with you my opinion about Stephen Miller. Look, I don't think anybody should think that Stephen Miller is going to be a curator at the Trump Presidential Library when he's done here. Go find another wave to surf. But I don't think that he's particularly loyal. I also don't believe he's got a particularly great reputation for working with people in the White House. But what really made me angry is when he had the audacity to go to cameras and say, it's the position of the United States that Greenland should become a part of the United States. That is absolutely the proverbial straw. I had taken and heard a lot of his comments and decided to internalize it. But being involved in the senatenato observer group and knowing how offensive that was to our allies, knowing that Denmark had, on a per capita basis, excuse me, the same number of deaths as the US And Afghanistan, made me angry. And that's the sort of stuff that he doesn't speak for me. He does speak for the Article 1 branch, and he does that sort of garbage all the time. And I'm just saying I know that he's got a special relationship with the president. But believe me when I tell you, if the president thinks that Stephen Miller is worried about his legacy, he's fooling himself. Stephen Miller is worried about his own legacy.

[Jonathan Karl]

But can I press you a little bit on this question of the president's responsibility for this? I mean, it was Donald Trump who put Kristi Noem in charge of the Department of Homeland Security who put. Who has given Stephen Miller the authority that he has. It was Donald Trump who first talked about wanting to acquire Greenland for the United States. These are his policies and the people he chose to execute them. Doesn't the buck stop with him?

[Senator Thom Tillis]

No. I still think that it goes back to the advice that they're getting. And if one person can't convince the president, then you get some of the other people together. You know, with respect to noms, you know, most of the time, the president's probably not going, this is my list of noms. Go figure out which one you want. People are bringing forth noms to him. I wouldn't expect him to have an encyclopedic knowledge of all the people that he's put forward. Again, I go back to who was responsible for actually putting forth Kristi Noemus and nam. What was that process about? I don't have any problem with Kristi Noem, the person. But it was clear to me that no one should have said that that experience she had as governor or the brief period of time that she was a House member qualified her to run such an enormously complex and consequential organization as the Department of Homeland Security and fema. So I'm just seeing more people around him need to say, guys, we got to look at this in terms of the probability of her being successful. And it could have, you could have helped her from herself because I took no pleasure in the criticism that I put her way a couple of weeks ago in the hearing. But every single bit of it was substantiated in facts.

[Jonathan Karl]

So let me ask you about Iran. Are you, how would you define right now, three weeks into this, what is the objective, the primary objective of the President?

[Senator Thom Tillis]

I don't know and I think it's a real problem. I think the President did a really good job with Venezuela talking about what the objective is. It was in, it was out. And I think they did a good job there with that, with extracting Maduro. There's still some argument about whether or not that regime is going to have a long term commitment to the US or going to realize what I think the President wants to achieve there long term. But I think that it's trending in the right direction here. You know, I thought the initial bombing raid a while back was very successful. I could see why we needed to finish some of the work and go back in and maybe have a week or two back in there, really degrading their capabilities. Now it's very, it's ambiguous. I don't know what our long term strategic goals are, but we're going to need to know that. I generally support what the President's doing in Iran, but if we're going to get anything close to the $200 billion supplemental request, we've got to get 60 votes and we're going to have to figure out how to accomplish that.

[Jonathan Karl]

Yeah, I mean, they've said four to five weeks to do again, what the objectives are. Unclear. But $200 billion doesn't sound like four or five weeks.

[Senator Thom Tillis]

No, it does. I mean, if you do the math, my guess is right now there were estimates of a billion to billion and a half a day spent. So let's assume at that about $30 billion has been spent sustaining the operation, paying personnel, supporting the kinetic strikes. We need to know how that money's going to be spent. And if it's going beyond a 60 day horizon, then we really do need to talk about the authorization for the use of military force and longer term funding trails. So we'll look at the request here and see what's baked into it, and then we've got to work on getting Democratic support.

[Jonathan Karl]

And what do you make of this notion that the President's been saying that, you know, we don't use the Strait of Hormuz because that's not our oil, that's not the oil we buy. So the suggestion is, you know, the United States could basically pick up and leave and allow somebody else to deal with the fact that the straits have been.

[Senator Thom Tillis]

I think that'd be problematic because obviously the world global supply chains are real. The ships that are available, I mean, I'm hearing very long time to get back to normal shipping patterns out of that region. We have a number of partners and allies in the region whose economic fortunes rest on the Strait of Hormuz being open. So even if you stipulate that maybe there's not a direct impact in terms of commerce moving through the Straits of HORMUZ for the U.S. our allies, our partners, and the people we rely on to stabilize the Middle east, and many of our friends in Europe and in Africa rely on it. And we have to keep that in mind. We can't all of a sudden go out there and intervene the way we have and then suddenly become an isolationist in the back end of it. You just, you can't have it both ways. We've decided that we're going to project power and try and produce good outcomes in the Middle East. You can't all of a sudden walk away after you've kind of created the event and expect other people to pick it up and leave a good taste in their mouth. I mean, a part of this is, you know, the health and hygiene of our partnerships in the region going forward. And if we exit and say, now it's your turn to clean it up, I don't think that that will end well.

[Jonathan Karl]

Well, he just called NATO cowards. He said they're cowards for not willing to come in and secure the Strait of Hormuz.

[Senator Thom Tillis]

I don't think that they're cowards. I think they're people that weren't consulted on a major military operation. And I'd have the same reaction if I was the head of state. Not that I don't want to get there and help, but I think it's not productive to sit there and have created an environment that only that did not exist before our action. And then to say, it's time for somebody else to come in. This is about losing lives. I mean, this is a very dangerous part of the world. This isn't a part, this isn't just about a ship sinking. This is about a ship's crew and whatever military personnel are deployed there to try and ensure safe passage. So again, I'm the Republican leader, have been since 2018 of the Senate NATO Observer Group. I know these countries well. I meet with them regularly at the Munich Security Conference, at the NATO summits. And these folks love the United States. Our mill to mill relationships are very strong, but they don't appreciate the way they're being treated right now. And I can absolutely understand that.

[Jonathan Karl]

President Trump just this week suggested that he could pull out of NATO and that he also added that, you know, I can do that without Congress.

[Senator Thom Tillis]

Yeah, well, that's factually not true. In fact, there was an addition to an NDAA that makes it very clear that the actual termination of our relationship and the North Atlantic Treaty alliance will require an affirmative vote of Congress.

[Jonathan Karl]

Didn't Marco Rubio write that provision?

[Senator Thom Tillis]

That was something that we did when there was an original, when there was a discussion about, there was ambiguity. Everybody always thought, since it was a treaty that was ratified by Congress that would require an act of Congress to terminate it. And then the language was put into place to make that very clear, that it's not ambiguous. So it's unambiguous. The President of the United States cannot withdraw from NATO. Now, having said that, the president can poison the well. The president can make it functionally defunct if he wants to. But I would really encourage him to take the top 100 generals in the Pentagon right now and ask any of them if they think it's a good idea to sever that relationship. And you'd be hard pressed if they're telling you the truth. You'd be hard pressed to find one because that has enormous, enormous risk in it. American lives have been saved by the NATO alliance and American lives will be lost in great numbers without it.

[Jonathan Karl]

When we come back, I talk to Senator Tillis about prospects for Republicans in the midterm elections and how he plans to spend his remaining days in office.

[Narrator/Host]

Senator Thom Tillis, One on One with Jonathan Karl continues after this break.

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[Senator Thom Tillis]

Live presents Senator Thom Tillis one on

[Narrator/Host]

one with Jonathan Carl.

[Jonathan Karl]

So you seem a little liberated since you announced you weren't running for reelection.

[Senator Thom Tillis]

And this nonsense on what's going on with Greenland is a distraction from the good work he's doing. And the amateurs who said it was a good idea should lose their jobs.

[Jonathan Karl]

The President called you a loser.

[Senator Thom Tillis]

I believe I am thrilled about that. That makes me qualified to be Homeland Security Secretary and senior advisor to the President. We're an exceptional nation and one of the reasons we're exceptional is we expect exceptional leadership. And you've demonstrated anything but that.

[Jonathan Karl]

What's going on?

[Senator Thom Tillis]

Well, number one, I think people need to look back and recognize that I've been pretty plain spoken since I've been in politics.

[Jonathan Karl]

You seem a little more plain spoken.

[Senator Thom Tillis]

Well, you know, when people have said, you seem a little bit more liberated, I said, no, Sherlock. I no longer have to view things through a political lens. Of course, you know, now I no longer have to do a kind of a cost benefit analysis. If I say this, what is it going to take me in time and money to explain it to people in the context of an election? I don't have to go through that cost benefit process anymore. And so the only thing that really gates what I say is with an intent to make sure that Republicans are best positioned for elections next year. Year. I'm not trying to undermine Republicans. I'm trying to undermine efforts that are going to make it very difficult for Republicans to get elected in November. We already know we're going to have headwinds. And so, you know, when you're in states that are battleground states like North Carolina, Maine, Alaska, you've got to be, you've got to be on your game and you've got to remove as many risk as possible. You've got to soften the edges and get a broader base of people, many of them just barely right or left of center. And so what I'm doing is trying to make people mindful. If you think that the state of North Carolina can be won through just the ultra MAGA vote, you haven't passed fifth grade math. If you're not really smart about our priorities, maybe you'll do okay in some of the red states. But we could wake up on Wednesday morning and find out we're not in the majority anymore in the Senate. And that's the last thing that I want to have happen here.

[Jonathan Karl]

So the current trajectory is a bad one for the, for the Republicans in your view?

[Senator Thom Tillis]

Yeah, yeah. Look, it is because you always have an off year election headwind. But I do believe that we're adding to it. Some of it you just have to deal with the affordability issue with respect to energy prices, things that are going on in Iran. I support the president with what he's doing in Iran right now, but people generally vote their pocketbook and if we don't get Some of these pocketbook issues done. That will be additional headwinds beyond the traditional. The White House is won by a Republican, it's tough for Republicans. In the off year. The White House is won by a Democrat, it's tough for Democrats. So you have that baseline challenge to begin with. What I'm trying to do is minimize the challenges. Beyond that.

[Jonathan Karl]

Is JD Vance the future of the Republican Party?

[Senator Thom Tillis]

You know, I think it's going to be a jump ball if you're talking about a presumptive nominee. You know, JD will probably have the President's support, so that will give him some momentum. But my goodness, I could see, you know, seven or eight people trying to get into the race, which would benefit jd, to be honest with you. But it's going to be interesting to see how political coalitions start coming together probably by spring of next year. But I don't think that JD can assume it's a walk in for him.

[Jonathan Karl]

Do you think he has what it takes?

[Senator Thom Tillis]

You know, I think JD's a good guy. I didn't really have that much time to serve with him. He was only here for a couple of years. So he got, he didn't really get a lot of experience legislating up here. But I think he's a good guy. He's super smart and very funny. So those are, those are good raw skills to have if you're going to run for president. But I think it's going to be heavyweight bout between JD and probably a couple of other people that will jump into the race.

[Jonathan Karl]

So let me ask you, you got, I mean, it's a matter of months left here in the 289 days. Who's counting? What are you going to do with those days?

[Senator Thom Tillis]

You know, the reason I tell my staff the dates because everybody immediately jumps to counting the days and wishing them away. Quite the contrary. I'm aware of the number of days I have left to make an impact. What am I going to do with those days? We're going to recover from the failed legacy of Kristi Noem and female. We're already seeing it since she left office. It's a sea change over the last two weeks. It's remarkable how FEMA is responding and the stuff that we see in North Carolina. We're going to focus on things that leave a good legacy for the President. I'm going to focus on making sure as many Republicans as I can possibly help get back here in the Senate and in the state House, the state legislature in North Carolina. I'm going to work on good governance bills. I'm going to try and get protect and serve passed to, to increase crimes for people who harm federal police officers. I'm going to work on good tax policy. I'm going to work against bad policy. I'm also going to work against this populist phase right now where suddenly we're embracing Elizabeth Warren policy as good, sound Republican policy. I'm going to remind people that limited government, free markets and federalism has worked since the Republican Party started. And it's how we will continue to win elections if we get back to those roots. That's how I'm going to spend my next 289 days.

[Jonathan Karl]

And you're finishing up 12 years here. You had a long career in North Carolina, speaker of the House. How are you going to be remembered?

[Senator Thom Tillis]

I have no earthly idea. The only thing I care about being remembered by is a good husband, a good father.

[Jonathan Karl]

You ever going to run for office again?

[Senator Thom Tillis]

No. No. You know, I had to talk myself into running for a second term in some respects. I had to talk myself into running for the Senate in general. And so the timing, I think, was right for me to retire. Everybody talks about, you know, how they want term limits and then they go, well, we want you to run again. So everybody wants term limits on everybody but the person they like. I think the best we could do now is you term limit yourself. And don't be so arrogant as to think you're the only person in the state of North Carolina that can be an effective senator. I'm convinced there are hundreds of people in North Carolina that would have been better senators than me. They just didn't run.

[Narrator/Host]

This is the show everyone is watching.

[Senator Thom Tillis]

Ready or not, here I come.

[Narrator/Host]

You can't hide every moment, every game

[Senator Thom Tillis]

I could do what you do easy

[Narrator/Host]

every drop of sweat.

[Senator Thom Tillis]

It's tournament time.

[Narrator/Host]

It's win or go home. Get your popcorn ready all for this. Players walk in. Legends walk out. March Madness on ESPN Greatness is now playing continues through April 5th on ABC, ESPN and streaming on the ESPN app. Presented by Capital One.