This Week with George Stephanopoulos

Extra: Sen. Thom Tillis One-on-One with Jonathan Karl (March 24, 2026)

Episode Overview

In this candid, wide-ranging conversation, ABC’s Jonathan Karl interviews outgoing Senator Thom Tillis (R-NC), one of the few prominent Republicans openly critical of the Trump White House. The discussion covers Tillis’s opposition to Trump-backed legislation, his insights on the internal dynamics and decision-making within the administration, US foreign policy in hotspots like Iran, America’s relationship with NATO, the electoral prospects for Republicans in the coming midterms, and reflections on his own legacy as he prepares to retire from public office. Tillis speaks bluntly and directly, unfiltered by electoral concerns.

Key Topics & Insights

1. The Save America Act and GOP Legislative Strategy

[00:27–04:42]

Tillis clarifies his opposition:
He doesn't oppose the content of the Save America Act outright, but criticizes the "process" by which it’s being pushed, describing it as political theater unlikely to produce results.
- “I'm not against the Save Act. I've got bills ratified in North Carolina for voter ID. But there's a way to do it. There's a right way and a wrong way to do it.” — Tillis [01:42]
Critique of Republican strategy:
Tillis argues that Republican leaders should not bring doomed bills to the floor, and warns that performative losses don’t excite the party base in the long run.
- “They're telling you they're fighting for you, and they know they're going to lose this fight. So what good is it for us long term? And how honest is that with our Republican base?” — Tillis [02:24]
On banning mail-in voting:
Tillis calls the idea impractical, especially for rural states, and notes that absentee voting works well in many Republican-led states.
- “It's probably less prone to fraud if you do it right, like North Carolina, Alaska, Montana, all red states, than somebody walking up with a fake ID on election day.” — Tillis [03:32]
No evidence for claims of mass illegal voting:
He says he found no fraud that would’ve overturned the 2024 election.
- “There are always some voter improprieties, [but] there were none that would have changed the election result.” — Tillis [04:42]

2. On Standing Up to Trump, White House Dynamics, and Sycophancy

[05:19–09:22]

Relationship with Trump:
Tillis maintains he has a “healthy relationship” with Trump, but blames the President’s advisers rather than Trump himself for policy missteps.
- “I do not admire bad advice and I hate bad execution. And when I see it, and I think it's undermining the President of the United States agenda, then I'm going to call him out.” — Tillis [05:53]
On Trump’s inner circle and Stephen Miller:
He singles out adviser Stephen Miller for criticism, accusing him of being self-serving rather than loyal to the President or country.
- “I know that he's got a special relationship with the president. But believe me when I tell you, if the president thinks that Stephen Miller is worried about his legacy, he's fooling himself. Stephen Miller is worried about his own legacy.” — Tillis [08:51]
- Cites Miller's public comments on acquiring Greenland as an example of damaging, unserious behavior that offended US allies.
  - “That is absolutely the proverbial straw.” — Tillis [07:31]
Accountability and Trump’s choices:
Karl presses whether Trump bears responsibility for his appointees and advisers. Tillis deflects partial blame, again criticizing those around the President for not offering sound advice.

3. Foreign Policy: Iran, the Strait of Hormuz, and NATO

[10:31–15:38]

On U.S. objectives in Iran:
Tillis says the Trump administration lacks clear goals now, compared to earlier interventions (e.g., Venezuela).
- “It's ambiguous. I don't know what our long-term strategic goals are, but we're going to need to know that.” — Tillis [10:40]
Military funding:
Questions the $200 billion supplemental request, tying support to clear objectives and Democratic votes.
- “If it's going beyond a 60 day horizon, then we really do need to talk about the authorization for the use of military force and longer term funding trails.” — Tillis [11:51]
The Strait of Hormuz:
Disagrees with Trump's assertion that the US can just walk away because it’s “not our oil,” citing broad global supply chain impacts and alliance responsibilities.
- “We can't all of a sudden go out there and intervene the way we have and then suddenly become an isolationist...You can't have it both ways.” — Tillis [12:42]
Trump accusing NATO of cowardice:
Tillis rejects that label, explaining NATO wasn’t consulted and resents being drawn into conflicts post hoc.
- “These folks love the United States...but they don't appreciate the way they're being treated right now. And I can absolutely understand that.” — Tillis [14:09]
Can Trump unilaterally exit NATO?
Tillis clarifies congressional authority in the treaty, referencing legislation passed to prevent a unilateral exit.
- “The President of the United States cannot withdraw from NATO. Now, having said that, the president can poison the well...But I would really encourage him to take the top 100 generals...you'd be hard pressed to find one [who supports withdrawal].” — Tillis [15:22]

4. Tillis on Retirement, Party Trajectory, and the 2026 Midterm Elections

[19:10–26:04]

Speaking freely post-retirement:
Tillis admits he's more plainspoken without reelection pressures.
- “When people have said, ‘you seem a little bit more liberated,’ I said, ‘no, Sherlock. I no longer have to view things through a political lens.’” — Tillis [19:52]
Republican election strategy:
Warns that betting on turnout from "ultra MAGA" voters is not enough to win battleground states.
- “If you think that the state of North Carolina can be won through just the ultra MAGA vote, you haven’t passed fifth grade math.” — Tillis [20:44]
- Emphasizes the need to soften the party’s image and appeal beyond the base, or risk losing the Senate.
  - “We could wake up on Wednesday morning and find out we're not in the majority anymore in the Senate. And that's the last thing that I want to have happen here.” — Tillis [21:17]
On the party's current trajectory:
Sees additional headwinds beyond the usual for off-year elections, including economic issues and Republican infighting.
- “If we don’t get some of these pocketbook issues done, that will be additional headwinds beyond the traditional...” — Tillis [21:34]
JD Vance and party leadership:
Considers the party's future leadership a "jump ball," with Vance as one contender, not a shoo-in.
- “J.D. will probably have the President's support...But my goodness, I could see, you know, seven or eight people trying to get into the race.” — Tillis [22:19]
On legacy and what’s next:
Plans to focus his last months on governance, supporting Republicans, and resisting populist policy shifts. He rules out any future runs for office.
- “Everybody talks about, you know, how they want term limits and then they go, well, we want you to run again. So everybody wants term limits on everybody but the person they like. I think the best we could do now is you term limit yourself.” — Tillis [25:03]

Notable Quotes & Moments

On process, not content:
“I'm not against the Save Act...But there's a way to do it. There's a right way and a wrong way to do it.” — Tillis [01:42]
On legislative honesty:
“They're telling you they're fighting for you, and they know they're going to lose this fight. So what good is it for us long-term? And how honest is that with our Republican base?” — Tillis [02:24]
On Stephen Miller:
“Stephen Miller is worried about his own legacy.” — Tillis [08:51]
On his plainspokenness in retirement:
“No, Sherlock. I no longer have to view things through a political lens.” — Tillis [19:52]
Electoral pragmatism:
“If you think that the state of North Carolina can be won through just the ultra MAGA vote, you haven’t passed fifth grade math.” — Tillis [20:44]
On term limits:
“I think the best we could do now is you term limit yourself. And don't be so arrogant as to think you're the only person in the state of North Carolina that can be an effective senator.” — Tillis [25:03]

Timestamps for Key Segments

00:27 — Start of Tillis interview, opposition to "Save America" act
03:32 — Practicality of mail-in voting; fraud allegations
05:19 — On giving advice to Trump, White House inner circle
07:31 — On Stephen Miller and Trump’s advisers
10:31 — US objectives in Iran
12:42 — The global importance of the Strait of Hormuz
14:09 — Tillis defends NATO, opposes Trump’s harsh rhetoric
15:22 — Legal impossibility of unilateral NATO withdrawal
19:10 — On feeling liberated after announcing retirement
20:44 — The futility of a “base only” GOP strategy
22:19 — JD Vance and GOP’s future leadership
23:28 — Tillis’s final goals in Congress, his legacy
25:03 — On retirement, term limits, and not running again

Tone and Style

Tillis’s responses are frank, sometimes wry, and unvarnished—especially in critiques of his own party’s internal dysfunction and strategies. He combines expert knowledge with political realism, emphasizing coalition-building over purity and underscoring the need for honesty with voters and good governance above performing for the cameras.

This episode provides a rare, behind-the-scenes look at the mind of a senior Republican as he prepares to exit national politics. It's essential listening for anyone interested in the current state—and possible future—of the GOP.

This Week with George Stephanopoulos

Extra: Sen. Thom Tillis One-on-One with Jonathan Karl (March 24, 2026)

Episode Overview

Key Topics & Insights

1. The Save America Act and GOP Legislative Strategy

[00:27–04:42]

Tillis clarifies his opposition:
He doesn't oppose the content of the Save America Act outright, but criticizes the "process" by which it’s being pushed, describing it as political theater unlikely to produce results.
- “I'm not against the Save Act. I've got bills ratified in North Carolina for voter ID. But there's a way to do it. There's a right way and a wrong way to do it.” — Tillis [01:42]
Critique of Republican strategy:
Tillis argues that Republican leaders should not bring doomed bills to the floor, and warns that performative losses don’t excite the party base in the long run.
- “They're telling you they're fighting for you, and they know they're going to lose this fight. So what good is it for us long term? And how honest is that with our Republican base?” — Tillis [02:24]
On banning mail-in voting:
Tillis calls the idea impractical, especially for rural states, and notes that absentee voting works well in many Republican-led states.
- “It's probably less prone to fraud if you do it right, like North Carolina, Alaska, Montana, all red states, than somebody walking up with a fake ID on election day.” — Tillis [03:32]
No evidence for claims of mass illegal voting:
He says he found no fraud that would’ve overturned the 2024 election.
- “There are always some voter improprieties, [but] there were none that would have changed the election result.” — Tillis [04:42]

2. On Standing Up to Trump, White House Dynamics, and Sycophancy

[05:19–09:22]

Relationship with Trump:
Tillis maintains he has a “healthy relationship” with Trump, but blames the President’s advisers rather than Trump himself for policy missteps.
- “I do not admire bad advice and I hate bad execution. And when I see it, and I think it's undermining the President of the United States agenda, then I'm going to call him out.” — Tillis [05:53]
On Trump’s inner circle and Stephen Miller:
He singles out adviser Stephen Miller for criticism, accusing him of being self-serving rather than loyal to the President or country.
- “I know that he's got a special relationship with the president. But believe me when I tell you, if the president thinks that Stephen Miller is worried about his legacy, he's fooling himself. Stephen Miller is worried about his own legacy.” — Tillis [08:51]
- Cites Miller's public comments on acquiring Greenland as an example of damaging, unserious behavior that offended US allies.
  - “That is absolutely the proverbial straw.” — Tillis [07:31]
Accountability and Trump’s choices:
Karl presses whether Trump bears responsibility for his appointees and advisers. Tillis deflects partial blame, again criticizing those around the President for not offering sound advice.

3. Foreign Policy: Iran, the Strait of Hormuz, and NATO

[10:31–15:38]

On U.S. objectives in Iran:
Tillis says the Trump administration lacks clear goals now, compared to earlier interventions (e.g., Venezuela).
- “It's ambiguous. I don't know what our long-term strategic goals are, but we're going to need to know that.” — Tillis [10:40]
Military funding:
Questions the $200 billion supplemental request, tying support to clear objectives and Democratic votes.
- “If it's going beyond a 60 day horizon, then we really do need to talk about the authorization for the use of military force and longer term funding trails.” — Tillis [11:51]
The Strait of Hormuz:
Disagrees with Trump's assertion that the US can just walk away because it’s “not our oil,” citing broad global supply chain impacts and alliance responsibilities.
- “We can't all of a sudden go out there and intervene the way we have and then suddenly become an isolationist...You can't have it both ways.” — Tillis [12:42]
Trump accusing NATO of cowardice:
Tillis rejects that label, explaining NATO wasn’t consulted and resents being drawn into conflicts post hoc.
- “These folks love the United States...but they don't appreciate the way they're being treated right now. And I can absolutely understand that.” — Tillis [14:09]
Can Trump unilaterally exit NATO?
Tillis clarifies congressional authority in the treaty, referencing legislation passed to prevent a unilateral exit.
- “The President of the United States cannot withdraw from NATO. Now, having said that, the president can poison the well...But I would really encourage him to take the top 100 generals...you'd be hard pressed to find one [who supports withdrawal].” — Tillis [15:22]

4. Tillis on Retirement, Party Trajectory, and the 2026 Midterm Elections

[19:10–26:04]

Speaking freely post-retirement:
Tillis admits he's more plainspoken without reelection pressures.
- “When people have said, ‘you seem a little bit more liberated,’ I said, ‘no, Sherlock. I no longer have to view things through a political lens.’” — Tillis [19:52]
Republican election strategy:
Warns that betting on turnout from "ultra MAGA" voters is not enough to win battleground states.
- “If you think that the state of North Carolina can be won through just the ultra MAGA vote, you haven’t passed fifth grade math.” — Tillis [20:44]
- Emphasizes the need to soften the party’s image and appeal beyond the base, or risk losing the Senate.
  - “We could wake up on Wednesday morning and find out we're not in the majority anymore in the Senate. And that's the last thing that I want to have happen here.” — Tillis [21:17]
On the party's current trajectory:
Sees additional headwinds beyond the usual for off-year elections, including economic issues and Republican infighting.
- “If we don’t get some of these pocketbook issues done, that will be additional headwinds beyond the traditional...” — Tillis [21:34]
JD Vance and party leadership:
Considers the party's future leadership a "jump ball," with Vance as one contender, not a shoo-in.
- “J.D. will probably have the President's support...But my goodness, I could see, you know, seven or eight people trying to get into the race.” — Tillis [22:19]
On legacy and what’s next:
Plans to focus his last months on governance, supporting Republicans, and resisting populist policy shifts. He rules out any future runs for office.
- “Everybody talks about, you know, how they want term limits and then they go, well, we want you to run again. So everybody wants term limits on everybody but the person they like. I think the best we could do now is you term limit yourself.” — Tillis [25:03]

Notable Quotes & Moments

On process, not content:
“I'm not against the Save Act...But there's a way to do it. There's a right way and a wrong way to do it.” — Tillis [01:42]
On legislative honesty:
“They're telling you they're fighting for you, and they know they're going to lose this fight. So what good is it for us long-term? And how honest is that with our Republican base?” — Tillis [02:24]
On Stephen Miller:
“Stephen Miller is worried about his own legacy.” — Tillis [08:51]
On his plainspokenness in retirement:
“No, Sherlock. I no longer have to view things through a political lens.” — Tillis [19:52]
Electoral pragmatism:
“If you think that the state of North Carolina can be won through just the ultra MAGA vote, you haven’t passed fifth grade math.” — Tillis [20:44]
On term limits:
“I think the best we could do now is you term limit yourself. And don't be so arrogant as to think you're the only person in the state of North Carolina that can be an effective senator.” — Tillis [25:03]

Timestamps for Key Segments

00:27 — Start of Tillis interview, opposition to "Save America" act
03:32 — Practicality of mail-in voting; fraud allegations
05:19 — On giving advice to Trump, White House inner circle
07:31 — On Stephen Miller and Trump’s advisers
10:31 — US objectives in Iran
12:42 — The global importance of the Strait of Hormuz
14:09 — Tillis defends NATO, opposes Trump’s harsh rhetoric
15:22 — Legal impossibility of unilateral NATO withdrawal
19:10 — On feeling liberated after announcing retirement
20:44 — The futility of a “base only” GOP strategy
22:19 — JD Vance and GOP’s future leadership
23:28 — Tillis’s final goals in Congress, his legacy
25:03 — On retirement, term limits, and not running again

wavePod

Extra: Sen. Thom Tillis One-on-One with Jonathan Karl

Summary

This Week with George Stephanopoulos

Extra: Sen. Thom Tillis One-on-One with Jonathan Karl (March 24, 2026)

Episode Overview

Key Topics & Insights

1. The Save America Act and GOP Legislative Strategy

2. On Standing Up to Trump, White House Dynamics, and Sycophancy

3. Foreign Policy: Iran, the Strait of Hormuz, and NATO

4. Tillis on Retirement, Party Trajectory, and the 2026 Midterm Elections

Notable Quotes & Moments

Timestamps for Key Segments

Tone and Style

Transcript

Summary

This Week with George Stephanopoulos

Extra: Sen. Thom Tillis One-on-One with Jonathan Karl (March 24, 2026)

Episode Overview

Key Topics & Insights

1. The Save America Act and GOP Legislative Strategy

2. On Standing Up to Trump, White House Dynamics, and Sycophancy

3. Foreign Policy: Iran, the Strait of Hormuz, and NATO

4. Tillis on Retirement, Party Trajectory, and the 2026 Midterm Elections

Notable Quotes & Moments

Timestamps for Key Segments

Tone and Style