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Martha Raddatz
meets face to face with Iran for the first time in decades, but walks away without a deal to end the war. A special edition of this Week from Islamabad and Washington starts right now. No deal.
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Vice President JD Vance
We go back to the United States having not come to an agreement.
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Martha Raddatz
After a marathon negotiating session, Vice President Vance leaves peace talks with Iran refusing to commit to US Demands.
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Vice President JD Vance
The simple fact is that we need to see an affirmative commitment that they will not seek a nuclear weapon.
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Martha Raddatz
President Trump downplays the efforts to end the war.
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Senator Tim Kaine
Whether we make a deal or not makes no difference to me.
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Martha Raddatz
As US Ships enter the Strait of Hormuz for the first time since the war began, Navy destroyers starting mine clearing operations in the critical oil passageway. So how can the shaky two week ceasefire hold? What comes next on the path to end the war? I'll speak with GOP Senator Ron Johnson and Democratic Senator Tim Kaine, plus former CENTCOM Commander Joseph Votel on what the US has achieved so far. Surprise statement. The lies linking me with the disgraceful Jeffrey Epstein need to end today. We'll cover all the week's politics. And former House Speaker Kevin McCarthy joins our roundtable.
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Mary Louise Kelly
And it's a special thing to be
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Senator Ron Johnson
a human and it's a special thing to be on planet Earth.
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Martha Raddatz
The Artemis 2 crew splashes down to Earth after a historic 10 day mission around the moon. From ABC News, a special edition of this Week. Here now, Martha Raddatz. Good morning and welcome to this week. We are reporting this morning from Islamabad, Pakistan, where Vice President Vance has just wrapped up marathon peace talks with Iran. With no deal to end the war now entering its seventh week after 21 hours of overnight closed door negotiations with Iran mediated by Pakistan. The Vice President emerged to say that the parties had failed to reach an agreement, saying Iran was unwilling to make a firm commitment on not seeking nuclear weapons. And with that, the US Delegation heads back to Washington. And a fragile two week ceasefire announced this week will now be put to the test. We will cover the very latest both here and in Washington. But we begin with the state of the talks and what comes next in this conflict.
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Vice President JD Vance
The bad news is that we have not reached an agreement this morning.
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Martha Raddatz
No breakthrough in talks as the US And Iran fail to hammer out a permanent resolution to the war in Iran.
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Vice President JD Vance
And I think that's bad news for Iran much more than it's bad news for the United States of America. We've made very clear what our red lines are, what things we're willing to accommodate them on and what things we're not willing to accommodate them on. And we've made that as clear as we possibly could. And they have chosen not to accept our terms.
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Martha Raddatz
The two sides meeting behind closed doors for 21 hours, working well into the night to find a resolution, but yielding no progress.
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Vice President JD Vance
The President told us you need to come here in good faith and make your best effort to get a deal. We did that and unfortunately we weren't able to make make any headway.
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Martha Raddatz
Iran's nuclear ambitions remaining a key sticking point.
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Vice President JD Vance
The simple fact is that we need to see an affirmative commitment that they will not seek a nuclear weapon and they will not seek the tools that would enable them to quickly achieve a nuclear weapon.
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Martha Raddatz
With Iran speaker of the Parliament and lead negotiator posting that the opposing side ultimately failed to gain the trust of the Iranian delegation in this round of negotiations. America has understood our logic and principles and now it's time for it to decide whether it can earn our trust or not. Vice President Vance reaffirming the United States position as he left Islamabad.
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Vice President JD Vance
We leave here with a very simple proposal, a method of understanding. That is our final and best offer. We'll see if the Iranians accept it.
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Martha Raddatz
As the marathon negotiations were wrapping, President Trump attending a UFC fight in Miami with Secretary of State Marco Rubio and dismissing the effort Saturday.
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Senator Tim Kaine
Whether we make a deal or not makes no difference to me.
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Martha Raddatz
The trilateral effort mediated by Pakistan was the highest level face to face meetings between the United States and Iran in 47 years. The breakdown in talks now putting the fragile temporary two week truce agreed upon late Tuesday to the test, with differences in those agreed upon terms emerging throughout the week. The administration claiming Iran had agreed to open the Strait of Hormuz. President Trump posting on social media Saturday that the US Is now starting the process of clearing out the Strait of Hormuz as a favor to countries all over the world. The Pentagon said two Navy destroyers were clearing mines in the days since the announced agreement. Few ships have crossed the Passage which remains under Iranian control. And on the key sticking point of Iran's nuclear ambitions, Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth insisting this week the US Will secure Iran's enriched nuclear material.
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Kevin McCarthy
We know exactly what they have and they know that. And they will either give it to us, which the President has laid out, they'll give it to us voluntarily. We'll get it, we'll take it. We'll take it out.
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Martha Raddatz
The temporary truce came under immense pressure just before Tuesday night's deadline to Iran. Trump stunningly said, a whole civilization will die tonight, never to be brought back again. I don't want that to happen, but it probably will. A lot to discuss. I'm joined now by GOP Senator Ron Johnson of Wisconsin. Good morning to you, Senator. You have been a supporter of this war, but after 21 hours of really historic negotiations, there was no deal cut. And it's basically according to JD Vance, take it or leave it. What's your reaction?
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Senator Ron Johnson
Well, good morning, Martha. Well, first of all, I'm not supportive of the war with Iran. But that's because Iran declared war on America 47 years ago. They have blood on their, on their hands of American soldiers, hundreds, probably thousands of them. But it's the Ayatollah, it's the regime that declared war on America, not the Iranian people. So we're not at war with the Iranian people. We're trying to end the state sponsored terrorism. We're trying to end the threat, the menace that Iran represents, not only to America, but to world security and peace. So I'm supportive of ending the Iranian regime's ability to threaten world peace and security.
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Martha Raddatz
And what's your reaction to what happened here in Islamabad with no deal, what do you think happens now?
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Senator Ron Johnson
I'm not surprised at all. The Ayatollahs, even though they have been so degraded in terms of their capabilities, nobody thought this would be easy. They've been preparing for this for 47 years. They have multiple layers. They've got 200,000 people in the IRGC, 600,000 people in the Basij police force. They are brutal. By the way, this is exactly what nationwide gun control results in. The Iranian people are completely disarmed. It's going to be very difficult for them to rise up. And so it's a very difficult situation. Now, I hope, I hope that President Trump is successful in this because if we could just imagine the world if the ayatollahs, the brutal Iranian regime is no longer in power. That's what we're trying to achieve.
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Martha Raddatz
The president was at A UFC fight in Florida with Marco Rubio. During the negotiations, he was getting updates. But earlier in the day, he said, whether we make a deal or not makes no difference to me. And the reason is because we've won, it makes no difference.
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Senator Ron Johnson
Well, first of all, we will not have won until we have completely defamed the Iranian regime. We have to make sure. I thought it was very interesting in President Trump's address to the nation when he spoke to the families of Dover, how apparently to a person, they said, finish the job. And to me, finishing the job is to make sure that Iran can never produce a nuclear weapon. They can no longer enrich uranium, that hopefully we can remove that enriched uranium, that they can no longer hold the Strait of Hormuz hostage, that they can no longer brutalize the Iranian people. They can no longer be a sponsor of state terror. So we have to finish the job. Again, there's multiple ways of potentially doing it, short term, long term. There are multiple avenues we can approach here, but we have not yet finished the job.
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Martha Raddatz
Meanwhile, we have 50,000 troops in harm's way right now. We have Gulf allies in harm's way. We have gas prices spiking, oil barrels, the price raised there. President Trump was asked about people who are not fans of the war, asked specifically, what do you say to Americans who are not fans of the war? And he said, they're foolish because the war is about one thing. Iran cannot have a nuclear weapon. So what would you say to those Americans who are sitting at home seeing those 50,000 troops in harm's way, seeing gas prices spike, and listening to you saying how complicated this could be and that it could continue for a long time?
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Senator Ron Johnson
Well, first of all, it's a good answer. That's exactly the reason why we have to make sure the Iranian. The Iranian regime is ended. You know, whether it's President Obama, President Biden, President Trump, they all said, we can never allow Iran to become a nuclear power. The problem with what President Obama and Biden did is they coddled the regime. They funneled billions of dollars, strengthened the regime, allowed them to sponsor state terror, allowed them to continue enriching uranium. And at some point in time, we had to act before we couldn't, before Iran became a nuclear power, before they had so many missiles and so many drones, that this kind of action would have devastated the region. It's already done enough damage. So, again, I know it's a tough decision for President Trump because he knew it wouldn't be easy, and it's not easy, and it could be longer term here. But I don't believe it's going to require boots on the ground, you know, potentially assets to help the Iranian people, other people eventually completely destroy the regime. But let's face it, this regime is incredibly weakened. All their bold statements reminds me of Baghdad bomb. You know, they are not in a position of strength right now. And we also have to make sure that China and Russia no longer help Iran. I heard a very disturbing report that apparently China's going to be sending manpads to Iran. We need to express in no uncertain terms China had better not do that. You know, we certainly have the capability of blocking oil from the straight Hormuz going to China as well. So again, we have plenty, plenty of senator power in this situation and we need to use it.
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Martha Raddatz
Senator, I want to go back to you saying that President Trump had a good answer about what do you say to Americans who are not a fan of the war? He did say they're foolish. Do you agree they're foolish not to be fans of the war?
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Senator Ron Johnson
No, no. The answer he gave that I agreed with is we cannot allow Iran to become a nuclear power. They have missile technology. All they would have to do is park a barge in international waters off the shores of the U.S. lob one of those missiles, have a high altitude nuclear blast, an EMP event. We could wipe out America's electrical grid. That would be existential threat to America. So Iran represents an existential threat to America. That's why Obama, Biden and Trump said we can't allow them to become a nuclear power. But they're racing toward it. You know, Martha, if Iran didn't want to be attacked, they want to be left alone. All they had to do was say we're not, we're not going to enrich uranium. We'll allow inspectors in to make sure that we're not doing it. They, because they didn't allow that, because they allowed their economy to become devastated, just proves the point that they are, they were absolutely dedicated to become a nuclear power and threaten and potentially destroy America. We had to take that threat seriously.
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Martha Raddatz
But Senator, they're not doing that. They're not stopping. The strait is essentially closed. They still have that enriched uranium. So what do you do now? You yourself did not like the president threatening civilian power grids and structures. So if the cease fire fails, what do they go after? What do they do?
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Senator Ron Johnson
Again, you keep degrading the Iranian regime. I think it's interesting that you have Iranians actually calling in airstrikes against some of their leadership. It's remarkable the amount of destruction we've already brought to the Iranian regime without really harming that much civilian infrastructure. So, again, I think we continue down that path. We make sure that we deter China and Russia from helping out Iran. We continue to weaken the regiment until they are no longer effective and the Iranian people can reclaim their own liberty and take over Iran themselves again. It's going to be a long term project. I know that could go on for a long time. I thought it'd be easy. I don't think Trump thought it'd be easy. It could take a long time. But again, the threat was there and the threat was growing. And at some point in time, we had to act before we no longer could. That's why I supported President Trump when he made an incredibly difficult decision to finally act. But now we have to finish the job, and that may take some time, and it could be complicated and it could be risky. There's no guarantees here, but we could not allow Iran to become a nuclear power, threaten their region, threaten the world.
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Martha Raddatz
Okay. Thank you very much for joining us this morning, Senator. Appreciate it.
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Senator Ron Johnson
Have a good day.
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Martha Raddatz
Let's bring in Senator Tim Kaine of Virginia, a member of the Senate Armed Services Committee and Foreign Relations Committee. Good morning to you, Senator. You saw these negotiations break down. JD Vance said they presented the final offer and then he went home. What is your reaction?
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Senator Tim Kaine
Well, Martha, we need to extend the ceasefire. We shouldn't be in this war to begin with. You know, what people need to realize is we had a diplomatic control over Iran, not seeking a nuclear weapon that Donald Trump decided to tear up. And we had an open Strait of Hormuzen, reasonable gas prices up until February 27, when Donald Trump launched this war without the support of allies, the American public or Congress. And so the ceasefire, while it is not perfectly holding, we need to find a way to extend it past April 21. Both parties, when they left the negotiation in Pakistan, said the door wasn't closed to additional negotiation. And so even an imperfect ceasefire is better than resuming full war. I'm going to force a vote on another war powers resolution in Congress this week in the Senate, because returning to full war will just compound the suffering of American troops and the American citizenry who are suffering under a very, very devastated economy because of what Donald Trump has done.
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Martha Raddatz
You heard J.D. vance, however, say it was a final offer. Whether he's open to talking to them again is something different than saying, this is the final offer. We're welcome for you to come back and accept it or not, the Iranians have stood firm. They walked away from here as well, saying they would like to get closer to the American side. This seems like an absolute red line for President Trump.
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Senator Tim Kaine
And I'm not sure what President Trump's red lines are, because they seem to change all the time. His rationale for the war has changed all the time. You know, the threat to bomb the entire civilization. And 90 minutes before that, OK, we're not going to bomb the entire civilization. And I don't know exactly what the offer was that J.D. vance put on the table. He had a brief press conference, and he said, we need to make sure that Iran doesn't get a nuclear weapon. But. But, Martha, as you know, Iran entered into an agreement with the United States and other nations, both allies of the US and China and Russia, in 2016, reaffirming that they would never purchase, seek, or acquire a nuclear weapon. Donald Trump tore that up. He tore up the restrictions on uranium production. He tore up the restrictions on centrifuge production. He tore up the deal that allowed intrusive inspections in Iran. So JD Vance says now that, well, Iran won't agree to what they agreed to 10 years ago. I'm sure Iran wonders, if we agree to it, will the United States tear it up again and bomb our civilian infrastructure and kill school children and engage in an assassination campaign against our leadership? This is not going to be an easy negotiation because the last negotiation that led to a control of Iran's nuclear program, the US Made the decision to tear it up and walk away from the deal. I think that decision by President Trump to tear up a diplomatic deal will go down in history as one of the worst decisions in the foreign policy space ever made by an American president. If you make diplomacy impossible, you tend to make war inevitable.
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Martha Raddatz
And the war itself. One of the things you just heard Senator Johnson talk about is what he said now, whether, you know, they tore up that or not, he said, now they. Are Iran an existential threat? Do you do not believe it's an existential threat or there was an imminent threat?
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Senator Tim Kaine
There was no imminent threat. They are a regional threat. The regime is bad actors, for sure. The tragedy is the U.S. and Iran were friends in World War II. We were allies until the U.S. toppled the Iranian government in 1953. And since then, it's been back and forth between the US and Iran for not. Not 47 years, but for 80 years. And if war was the answer, we would have found it before now. They are a regional threat, but they posed no imminent threat to the United States. I'm on both the Armed services and foreign relations committees. I'm in the classified facility at the, at the Capitol all the time. And there was zero evidence of an imminent threat to the homeland from Iran. There was suggestion that if Israel attacked Iran, Iran might then turn its attention to U.S. forces in the region. Our 40,000 permanent forces that we have. We could have, we should have talked Israel out of attacking so as to minimize risk to our own forces. Instead, we accepted the notion that Israel would attack. But there was no imminent threat to the United States from Iran from a nuclear program, for their ballistic missile program or for their other military activities. That doesn't mean that they're a good guy. They're a regional threat, but they weren't a threat to the US Homeland.
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Martha Raddatz
Senator, if we could just close on this. Trump has continued to blast NATO allies who are not supporting opening up the Strait of Hormuz. A president can't pull out of NATO, of course, but he could pull troops out. Are you concerned about that?
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General Joseph Votel
Yes.
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Senator Tim Kaine
I mean, the president has been trashing NATO for years, long before he was president. And in this term, the tariffs that he has imposed on our allies, the language that he uses calling Canada a NATO ally of 51st state, threatening the attack of Greenland, part of Denmark, another NATO ally, he's really hurt NATO and then he starts a war without consulting with them that has a huge effect on NATO allies economy and then gets mad that they won't join in. I mean, it's like you don't sucker punch somebody in a bar and then blame your buddies when they don't join the fight with you. I mean, if the president wanted the support of allies, he should have valued allies and respected them rather than putting tariffs on their economies and trash talking them.
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Martha Raddatz
Okay, I'm going to stop you there and I appreciate you coming on this morning. Thanks so much, Senator. When we come back, General Joseph Votel, the former CENTCOM commander, tells us what may be next.
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Senator Tim Kaine
Operation EPIC FURY was a historic and overwhelming victory on the battlefield. A capital V military victory. Together with our Israeli partners, America's military
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Kevin McCarthy
achieved every single objective on plan, on schedule, exactly as laid out from day one.
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Martha Raddatz
Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth is week declaring victory in the Iran war. But what has the US achieved in its military aims? For more on that, I'm joined now by former CENTCOM commander General Joseph Votel. It's great to see you, General Votel. So no deal. What do you expect to happen now in the coming weeks?
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General Joseph Votel
Yeah, thanks Martha. It's great to be with you. Well, I think hopefully what's going to happen is behind the scenes they'll continue works to try to get back into some type of. I think that's really, really important. And at the same time, I expect the US Military to continue to maintain its presence. Of course, we heard from Admiral Cooper yesterday that they have begun a very deliberate process to open a route through the Straits of Hormuz. And I would expect that they would continue to do that moving forward.
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Martha Raddatz
And I want to talk about that in a minute, but I want to talk about the overall performance and what we have done so far. The military, of course, has been done an incredible job with what they were tasked to do. But you have heard the President say make threats about civilian power grids, civilian sites, antiquities, things like that. Would the military carry out those kinds of orders?
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General Joseph Votel
Well, I think, I think our military leaders have a process by which they evaluate targets to assess the military value of those. And if there are concerns, then we have the ability to raise that target to our civilian leaders and express those types of concerns. You know, moreover, I think we have to be concerned about targeting those types of targets that would in turn cause Iran to target similar type targets of our, of our partners across the region. So I think it's, I think it's really important that we do very deliberate planning here. I expect the military is doing that and that we focus on those things that are most critical to reducing Iran's ability to make war and to threaten the region.
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Martha Raddatz
You heard Pete Hegseth say basically the war is won, a military victory with a capital V. Do you think the war has been won?
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General Joseph Votel
Well, I think we'll let the Secretary's words speak for themselves. I mean, certainly watching what CENTCOM forces have done over the last several weeks has been really impressive and has been, there's been substantial dismantlement of Iran's war making capability. It's not absolute. They still have the ability to launch some missiles, some drones, and of course they're still threatening in the Straits of Hormuz. So those are issues that will have to be either addressed through negotiations or through perhaps future military action. But certainly the performance of our military forces has been substantial and I think it's significantly reduced the war making capability of the, of the regime.
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Martha Raddatz
But you would probably be the first to say those are tactical victories. And again, they have done an incredible job doing that. But strategically they haven't really reached their goal as we've seen here in Pakistan. Because of the nuclear material?
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General Joseph Votel
Well, yeah, absolutely. I mean, I think we have to. This certainly has to be evaluated by our civilian leaders in light of our strategy, strategic objectives. But what the military has done is largely move forward substantially against the military objectives that were identified for them at the beginning of this. But as we know, war is a political state here and it involves more than just the military. It involves our diplomacy, it involves our economics, involves the power of our information. So all of those capabilities have to be brought to bear for us to, I think, you know, declare some end state.
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Martha Raddatz
Ptegseth has also said if we don't get that nuclear material, our troops may go in and get it somehow we'll go in and get it. Talk about the difficulty of a mission like that.
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General Joseph Votel
Well, you know, there's a lot that our military can do and without getting into a whole lot of details, you know, we certainly have the capacity to do this. But an operation of that nature, well, you know, well into Iran would be significant. We'd not only have to put the specialty troops on the ground that we require to operate in that environment, we'd have to secure them. We'd have to make sure over the top of them, we had air cover. And then, of course, we'd have to be prepared to reinforce and sustain them for a period of time. This is likely not going to be something we'll be able to go in and do in a period of darkness. It will take days and perhaps longer to get control of that. And then we have to transport all of that material out of Iran to some safe location. So I think it's fair to say that that's a significant operation and it will require a lot of resources and a lot of focus and a lot of time to accomplish.
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Martha Raddatz
And back to the strait, if we can. Those destroyers apparently went through yesterday, were trying to clear out mines. How successful can that be, be? How difficult would it be if Iran does not open that strait for us to do that?
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General Joseph Votel
Well, again, I think this is within the military capabilities of the United States. And I think what we saw yesterday is the first part of what will be a very deliberate effort to clear routes through the Straits of Hormuz that can be proofed and then hopefully build some confidence with commercial shippers to begin moving their, moving their ships in and out of the, in and out of the Gulf. And that all takes time. And I think we're approaching this properly and very deliberately and making sure that we set the conditions for success, if that's what we have to do.
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Martha Raddatz
Okay, thanks, General Votel. It sounds very complicated. We appreciate you joining us this morning.
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General Joseph Votel
Thank you, Martha. Good to be with you.
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Martha Raddatz
And let's bring in our panel, the New Yorker, Susan Glasser, and NPR's host, Mary Louise Kelly. And Susan, let me talk to you first. Earlier this week, again, we heard Pete Hegseth declaring victory, saying victory with a capital V guided by the hand of God. You wrote this week, if this is victory, I would hate to see what failure looks like.
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Susan Glasser
Yeah, Martha, I mean, it's a really striking box, to a certain extent, of President Trump's own making. You have the specter of JD Vance flying all the way to Pakistan in order to negotiate first and foremost, foremost on the reopening of the Strait of Hormuz, which of course, was open before the conflict. And in that sense, it's very hard to see the administration claiming this enormous victory when what they're negotiating over is to try to get the world and the global economy is suffering as a direct result of this. Back to the status quo ante. And right now that seems like a very distant goal.
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Martha Raddatz
And Mary Louise, do you think there's any chance of resurrecting these talks? You've heard that J.D. vance basically said, take it or leave it. The Iranians said they'd like to get back together. Do you think that'll happen?
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Mary Louise Kelly
I certainly hope so. I mean, we certainly have to all be rooting for peace. This was round one of diplomacy in what we knew was going to be a really hard set of circumstances to produce a great big deal out of. So we still have until April 21 for the ceasefire to hold. And what a ceasefire it can do is create some space. The killing stops, most of the fighting stops. We obviously, you know, there's still a lot of fire going in this cease fire, but it hopefully creates some space for diplomacy to pick back up. But the challenge has been that they started so far apart, there was no trust. And that's going to be a very high hurdle if the starting point remains. You know, this 10 point plan that the Iranians put on the table that the US correctly has said that we can't work with, and the Iranians feel emboldened. It's a very high mountain to climb. But there is still time.
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Martha Raddatz
Susan, we've heard a lot about regime change. Obviously, a lot of senior leaders were killing and you had negotiators here in Islamabad from Iran. Are they different than the regime before? What do you see in terms of regime change?
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Susan Glasser
Yeah, I mean, this is a remarkable conversation even to be having in many respects, Martha. I mean, it's almost amazing to me that we have a situation where the President is claiming total regime change when what he's done is swap out one supreme leader named Khamenei for another supreme leader named Khamenei, except he's the son, younger and reportedly much more hardline than the father. And of course, also presumably embittered by the fact that the United States and his partner Israel have killed his father and other members of his family. And so, you know, Iran's president, same leader, it was before the war. You know, again, this is a theocracy that's been remarkably durable. And, you know, it was a kind of asymmetric war in which survival of this government itself was a form of victory for Iran. And so, you know, it's not a claim that holds up to real argument. And that's the tragedy for me, Martha, of this moment is that the President started out saying to the people of Iran. Help is on the way. Remember, there was the terrible mass killing of thousands of protesters at the beginning of 2026. That in some ways was the precipitating event here. And yet there's a possibility, and I hope it doesn't come to that, where the people of Iran end up in a situation where their government may be even more entrenched as a result of this military conflict.
- [32:59]
Mary Louise Kelly
If I could just jump on that, you have a situation where Iran has now proved to itself and the world it can stand up to the greatest military in the world, the most powerful military the world has ever seen, the United States, also the most powerful military in the region, where, to your point, Susan, the regime may well feel emboldened. Where Iran's regional proxies have been standing up. We're seeing that's what we're seeing on this other front in Lebanon. And yes, their missile program has been set back. Yes, many Iranians have been killed. Yes, they have taken massive hits. But it is they've gained the leverage of the Strait of Hormuz, which they didn't have before, at least not in a proven way that will be both strategically and economically hugely helpful to Iran going forward.
- [33:52]
Martha Raddatz
Mary Louise, I want to you and I have both been in Iran together. We have talked to the people. I want to go back to the people on the ground. Do you see any potential for that population to have the ability to rise up at this point, as President Trump said he basically wants them to do?
- [34:11]
Mary Louise Kelly
Look, one can be a journalist and be objective and also hope for Iranians to have the government that they deserve someday, a government in which Iranians enjoy free speech. And that feels still a very long way away today. You know, one of the tragedies of this is that it is hard to see that ordinary Iranians are not much farther away from being able to rise up than they were prior to February 28th and the start of this, and that the economy is going to be, you know, further in great difficulty as a result of this. So, yeah, that is very challenging. We don't have a reporter on the ground. I don't think you have a reporter on the ground. Inside Iran and abc, it's very hard to know what is on people's minds. But as our colleagues talk to people coming out at the borders in Turkey, at the borders in Iraq with Iran and describing what they see and what this experience has been like of these last few weeks, people are still terrified to speak and describing great fear for what will happen for their country and their families in the weeks ahead.
- [35:28]
Martha Raddatz
And Susan, we're running out of time here, but I do want to have you close, close this about how you think this will end.
- [35:34]
Susan Glasser
Yeah, I mean, look, on some level, Donald Trump has already signaled that he's probably not very interested in resuming full scale conflict here. The economic price not only to the United States, but the global economy ratcheting up here. It might be the off ramp that he's taken of the cease fire. I think the Iranians know that, though. That's part of why you saw very little movement in those negotiations is because I think there's been a very clear signal from Washington that Donald Trump may have reached the limits of his interest in conducting this conflict.
- [36:09]
Martha Raddatz
A lot to watch in the coming weeks. Thanks to you both. When we come back, we'll throw it back to Washington and my co anchor, Jonathan Carle.
- [36:21]
Jonathan Karl
911Where is the emergency?
- [36:22]
Narrator/Announcer
It's the middle of the night in a small town on the Jersey shore.
- [36:27]
Martha Raddatz
Someone reports an abandoned car on a bridge.
- [36:30]
Narrator/Announcer
A search gets underway for the missing driver, 19 year old Sarah Stern.
- [36:35]
Martha Raddatz
Is it a missing person?
- [36:36]
Narrator/Announcer
Is it a suicide?
- [36:37]
Martha Raddatz
At this point, nobody knows.
- [36:39]
Narrator/Announcer
Old friendships, buried cash and a sinister plot that was once pitched as a movie plays out in real life. I'm juju Chang from 2020 and ABC Audio. Listen now to Bridge of Lies wherever you get your podcasts.
- [37:00]
Martha Raddatz
The Hulu original series Love Overboard is
- [37:03]
Kevin McCarthy
now streaming on Hulu and hulu on Disney.
- [37:06]
Narrator/Announcer
16 singles are headed to this super
- [37:08]
Susan Glasser
luxury yacht to fall in love.
- [37:10]
Senator Ron Johnson
I'm a romantic.
- [37:11]
Narrator/Announcer
I want to find love.
- [37:12]
Senator Ron Johnson
This is going to be the best
- [37:13]
Narrator/Announcer
summer of our lives.
- [37:14]
Susan Glasser
But whoever you do not choose will
- [37:16]
Martha Raddatz
be going over overboard.
- [37:20]
Narrator/Announcer
This is insane.
- [37:21]
Martha Raddatz
Let the games begin.
- [37:22]
Kevin McCarthy
Watch the new Hulu original series Love Overboard, now streaming on Hulu and Hulu on Disney for bundle subscribers. Terms apply.
- [37:32]
Martha Raddatz
After a long day of talks here in Islamabad, Vice President Vance is now headed back to Washington. And we're going to send it back to Washington for the time being. To my co anchor John Carl.
- [37:42]
Kevin McCarthy
Good morning, Martha. Former speaker of the House Kevin McCarthy is joining our roundtable. We'll talk about President Trump's new threat just a few minutes ago to block any Iranian ships from coming through the Strait of Hormuz. That and much more. We're back in two minutes.
- [38:01]
Martha Raddatz
The lies linking me with the disgraceful Jeffrey Epstein need to end today. The individuals lying about me are devoid of ethical standards, humility and respect. I never been friends with Epstein. Donald and I were invited to the same parties as Epstein from Time to
- [38:29]
Mary Louise Kelly
time,
- [38:31]
Kevin McCarthy
first lady Melania Trump there this week with a surprise statement at the White House denying any relationship whatsoever with Jeffrey Epstein. Let's bring in the roundtable, former DNC chair Donna Brazile, SCOTUS blog editor Sarah Isger, the author of the excellent new book out Tuesday called Last Branch Standing, and former House Speaker Kevin McCarthy making his debut here on the roundtable. So look, let's start with the news just out of Pakistan and out of the president. He's now saying that he's imposing a blockade on the Strait of Hormuz. Two lengthy statements on truth social. One saying at an appropriate moment, we are fully locked and loaded and our military will finish up the little that is left of Iran. So, Kevin, what do you make of this? Are we back to war or no?
- [39:25]
Jonathan Karl
I don't think we're back to war, but I think this is very smart. If Iran thinks they can control the strait and people are just going to pay them, but President Trump is saying, no, no ship gets out of there. You're not going to pay Iran. And for anyone who thinks, look, I give JD Credit, a negotiation like this isn't going to solve on the first time. All great negotiations, you have to walk away. And every day America is going to get stronger because for the first time now, our destroyers are in the strait taking the mines out. This is putting Iran in a weaker position. The president is very clear ships won't go through unless all ships go through. And each day that we take the mines out and that it shows America with J.D. you're not going to have a nuclear weapon or we're not having a deal that's very clear of a red line. If you want to get to peace, this is what you have to do.
- [40:16]
Kevin McCarthy
I mean, in fact, Sarah, the Iranians were getting stuff through the strait. They blocked everybody else. And I'm told they had sold like a million barrels of oil. So since the, since the war, at a much higher price. So there have been, I've seen serious people proposing this for weeks, the idea of cutting off the strait.
- [40:35]
Narrator/Announcer
Yeah, I mean, look, I think when we look back on this moment, we will not talk about the individual war here or the individual choices about the Straits of Hormuz. I think we will look back and see a quarter century of America trying to solve a problem of the Middle east and instead managing a problem in the Middle east and that this war looks once again like an attempt to solve the problem by Donald Trump. He thought he could do it differently or better than his predecessors. For the last 25 years. And here we are. And it looks a whole lot like where we started.
- [41:05]
Kevin McCarthy
Donna, it was interesting seeing you had J.D. vance, who had not really been a part of the, you know, central to the war effort as far as we could tell, being sent on this mission to lead the delegation. Historic, by the way. This is the highest level talks between the Iranians and the Americans since 1979. At the very moment that he came out to announce no deal. Take a look at this split screen. We had the Secretary of State Marco Rubio on the right there at the UFC fight with the President seeming to be enjoying the championship fight while the Vice President of the United States was announcing no deal. What are the stakes here for J.D. vance?
- [41:45]
Donna Brazile
Well, the stakes are very high, clearly, because J.D. is the vice President, is known as someone who is a peacemaker. He's not for these so called forever wars in the Middle east and elsewhere. I thought it was like a dog sniffing exercise where, you know, you finally got a chance to, you know, take a look at the other side and to begin to put all of the cards on the table. I agree. I think this is round one. What am I watching right now? I'm watching some of the other key indicators. The United States military, will we resume bombing? I'm watching Israel, will they resume bombing in Iran? I'm also watching what happens with this blockade. Will the United States finally get some of our Gulf allies and European allies to join us? And of course, I'm watching what happens on Tuesday when Israel sits down with Lebanon. Will they begin to figure out how to stop the war? But no, this was a dog sniffing exercise where you size up the other side and, and then hopefully you go back to the table and begin to some serious negotiations.
- [42:47]
Kevin McCarthy
There's a lot of sniffing. This was a very long meeting went on as an all nighter. But Kevin, you said something interesting right before we came on the air here, that Trump loves that image of him being at the UFC fight while the talks are underway.
- [43:03]
Jonathan Karl
This is why I think people misinterpret the President. He's communicating directly to Iran. When he says the things he does in the tweets. They're not for you or I, they're to them. So he's telling them they're not getting through what he was telling Iran and those negotiators. Right then I don't have to have a deal. I'm very comfortable. And where is he? He's in a fight match that's tough, that he shows people can win and he's got Marco right next to him. If that's part of the negotiation, that gives America a stronger hand. If you're Iran and you're thinking that this guy doesn't care, this guy's tough, this guy's going to shut down what money or oil we're getting, and now they're taking the mines out and we don't have a navy to replace them, maybe I should negotiate. And if JD Said no nuclear weapons and he's willing to walk away, that's a strong man.
- [43:55]
Kevin McCarthy
I mean, but the bottom line is the military is fully still present in the Persian Gulf.
- [44:00]
Jonathan Karl
Exactly. That puts a fear on Iran.
- [44:02]
Kevin McCarthy
But, I mean, are we going to be back in. In a war? Is the ceasefire going to be over
- [44:06]
Jonathan Karl
or is this part of negotiations to end it? You've got to show all your. The fear, the fear of the military is almost greater than when you use it. Because if we wipe everything out, they have no more fear. He's showing greater strength, that they can't have money now, they can't control the strait, and you can't have a nuclear weapon. You should pick.
- [44:28]
Donna Brazile
But beyond symbolism, which I understand, the American people are tired and frustrated with this war. They're tired of gas prices, they're tired of the uncertainty. So there is some domestic risk that the President has to also take into consideration. He needs an off ramp. He needs to figure out what constitutes victory so that the American people. We're proud of the military, but the American people want to see some ending results and a strategy going forward.
- [44:56]
Narrator/Announcer
But this is exactly why your point was so spot on. Iran knows that Trump has a domestic problem with this war and with gas prices. He needed to communicate to them that he was not going to cave, he was not in a weaker position here, and he's, as you said, quite comfortable with his domestic position.
- [45:14]
Kevin McCarthy
It was also wild to see him go after Tucker Carlson, Candace Owens, Megyn Kelly in the.
- [45:18]
Narrator/Announcer
Well, it's a day of Jones.
- [45:20]
Kevin McCarthy
So I want to quickly touch on the other extraordinary statement. Melania Trump comes out suddenly with no warning and talks about Epstein. I'm told the White House, nobody in the West Wing had any idea that she was gonna do this. The President himself told the New York Times he didn't know that she was gonna do this.
- [45:38]
Narrator/Announcer
Welcome to being a campaign operative. Anyone who has done this for a living is very familiar with the spouse who sits on Twitter and sees random accounts saying negative things that they don't think are true and says, I want to go out and defend this. And you're like, no, ma', am, we are not doing that. That would step on the message, et cetera, et cetera. What you saw was the team lose. You know, if the Streisand effect is when you file a lawsuit, that brings more attention to something. The Melania effect is when finally Epstein is out of the news. You have an entire war in the Middle east, and you're like, no, no, please, let's talk more about Epstein.
- [46:13]
Kevin McCarthy
It had finally faded away, I mean, at least from public. And now we're told, search engine, you know, search traffic online.
- [46:20]
Narrator/Announcer
As we talk about all of the emails that she sent that are in the file. I mean, this is the worst possible.
- [46:25]
Donna Brazile
And I think that's precisely why the first lady decided that it was time for her to clear the air, to put her language out there. For example, in 1998, she met the President with another friend at the Kit Kat Club. She wanted to put her story out in her own voice. And she also said something I thought was very important. She said, please allow the survivors to come on the oath and testify and tell their story. So I thought it was good on her part to get out there and clean the air.
- [46:52]
Kevin McCarthy
We don't have much time left, but I want to. The allegations against Eric Swalwell, which have not been independently confirmed by abc, he's denied them all, but serious sexual misconduct allegations. And now you have a, you know, an army of Democrats abandoning his campaign for governor. He was the leading candidate, Democratic candidate for governor, and now he's facing calls to drop out from people like Nancy Pelosi.
- [47:18]
Jonathan Karl
Listen, let me be very clear. I tried to get rid of Swalwell 6, eight years ago. When I got the briefing, when I became leader with the FBI, Nancy Pelosi was in the room. I turned to her and said, how can you keep them on intel? Intel is a select committee that only the leaders put on that you know all the secrets that the members do not. I made a most.
- [47:39]
Kevin McCarthy
Is this about sexual misconduct allegations or
- [47:41]
Jonathan Karl
it was a combination with the Chinese spy and led to all that. Every member in Congress knows not to let any young staffer get around Swalwell or Matt Gaetz. It's not a secret.
- [47:54]
Senator Tim Kaine
There.
- [47:54]
Jonathan Karl
There's a reason why you didn't want those two people around. He was the leading candidate for governor. He probably could have won the primary and gotten there. But this all came forward, and these young women deserve to justice.
- [48:06]
Donna Brazile
I agree.
- [48:06]
Kevin McCarthy
Donna's a three dropout.
- [48:07]
Donna Brazile
His campaign is in a free fall right now with top staffers leaving and let me just say this, as someone who knows at least one of the victims that have come forward, I'm very concerned.
- [48:18]
Kevin McCarthy
Thank you, Donna. Up next, a look at the remarkable Artemis II mission. And we'll send it back to Martha and Islamabad. We're back in a moment.
- [48:27]
Martha Raddatz
Ryan Reynolds here from Mint Mobile.
- [48:28]
Jonathan Karl
I don't know if you knew this,
- [48:29]
Martha Raddatz
but anyone can get the same Premium Wireless for $15 a month plan that I've been enjoying. It's not just for celebrities. So do like I did and have one of your assistant's assistants switch you to Mint Mobile today. I'm told it's super easy to do@mintmobile.com
- [48:45]
Narrator/Announcer
Switch upfront payment of $45 for three month plan equivalent to $15 per month required intro rate first three months only, then full price plan options available, taxes and fees extra. See full terms@mintmobile.com Sunday nights on ABC. What happens when the person you love the most turns out not to be who you think they are? Everything he told me was a lie.
- [49:06]
General Joseph Votel
I was betrayed.
- [49:07]
Narrator/Announcer
From the number one true crime podcast Betrayal.
- [49:10]
Susan Glasser
He's been living a secret double life.
- [49:12]
Narrator/Announcer
My marriage ended with a 911 call.
- [49:13]
Martha Raddatz
The tape is blood curdling.
- [49:17]
Narrator/Announcer
Betrayal, secrets and lies.
- [49:19]
Martha Raddatz
So many people are living with their own betrayal.
- [49:22]
Narrator/Announcer
Sunday nights at 109 Central on ABC and stream on Disney and Hulu.
- [49:29]
Senator Ron Johnson
Use Integrity Splashdown. Sending post landing command now.
- [49:32]
Jonathan Karl
Splashdown confirmed.
- [49:34]
Martha Raddatz
Copy Splashdown.
- [49:35]
General Joseph Votel
Waiting on VLDR.
- [49:37]
Jonathan Karl
Splashdown confirmed at 7:07pm Central Time, 5:07pm Pacific Time.
- [49:44]
Senator Ron Johnson
From the pages of Jules Verne to a modern day mission to the moon,
- [49:48]
Martha Raddatz
a new chapter of the exploration of our celestial neighbor is complete.
- [49:52]
Jonathan Karl
Integrity's astronaut astronauts back on Earth.
- [49:57]
Martha Raddatz
That was the moment when the Artemis II crew returned home to Earth after their historic journey around the moon. While we are here on Earth amid divisions and attempts to end a war, we saw remarkable images this week of the beauty of our planet and the moments that bring us together.
- [50:15]
Jonathan Karl
And lift off the crew of Artemis
- [50:19]
Senator Tim Kaine
2 now bound for the moon.
- [50:21]
Martha Raddatz
In a triumph of human achievement, the 10 day Artemis 2 mission shattered a 56 year old record for the farthest distance from Earth ever traveled by humans. Those astronauts splashing down safely back at home. Friday night.
- [50:36]
Jonathan Karl
Splashdown confirmed.
- [50:38]
Martha Raddatz
During their historic flyby of the far side of the moon and capturing those stunning images of our planet in the distance, the crew shared a poignant moment captivating all of us back on Earth
- [50:52]
Senator Ron Johnson
a number of years ago. We started this journey in our close knit astronaut family and we lost a
- [50:58]
Martha Raddatz
loved one that loved one. The late wife of mission commander Reid Weissman. Carol. Who died in 2020 of cancer. Leaving Weissman to raise their two daughters. The Artemis 2 team suggesting they name one of the craters of the moon after Carol.
- [51:15]
Senator Ron Johnson
It's a bright spot on the moon and we would like to call a Carol. And you spell that. C A, R, R, O, L, L.
- [51:29]
Martha Raddatz
The four astronauts sharing a long emotional embrace. Artemis. Bringing humanity together to marvel at our closest celestial neighbor. And serving as a reminder of what we can do on Earth when we are focused on exploration rather than division. Beautiful. We'll be right back. And that's all for us today from Islamabad. Stay tuned to ABC News for the latest on the war in Iran. Thanks for sharing part of your Sunday with us. Be sure to catch world news tonight and have a great day.
- [52:06]
Mary Louise Kelly
I have great news.
- [52:08]
Kevin McCarthy
Malcolm in the Middle is back.
- [52:10]
Senator Ron Johnson
My life is fantastic now in a four part event.
- [52:13]
Jonathan Karl
All I had to do is stay completely away from my family. Your biggest problem is that we exist.
- [52:20]
Kevin McCarthy
Everyone's invited to the can't miss reunion of the year.
- [52:23]
Mary Louise Kelly
This family's behavior is toxic to me. You'll just take turns fighting and creating disasters.
- [52:27]
Martha Raddatz
That's what families do.
- [52:29]
Kevin McCarthy
Malcolm in the Middle Life's still unfair. Now streaming on Hulu and Hulu on Disney plus for bundle subscribers terms apply.
- [52:35]
Martha Raddatz
Rated TV 14.
- [52:36]
Donna Brazile
Oh.