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- [00:00]
Josh Shapiro
This episode is brought to you by Progressive Insurance. You ever find yourself playing the budgeting game? Well, with the name your price tool from Progressive, you can find options that fit your budget and potentially lower your bills. Try it@progressive.com, progressive Casualty Insurance Company and affiliates. Price and coverage match limited by state law. Not available in all states.
- [00:21]
Martha Ross
The Supreme Court deals a major blow to President Trump's signature economic policy on tariffs. So what does it mean for you? This week starts right now. I'm ashamed of certain members of the court. Absolutely ashamed. The Supreme Court invalidates Trump's sweeping tariffs, but the President refuses to back down. Their decision's incorrect, but it doesn't matter because we have very powerful alternatives. Trump imposes a new 15% across the board tariff, injecting fresh uncertainty into global markets. While some business owners celebrate the Court's ruling, the rush of relief was really quite overwhelming. This morning we break down the decision. It means for the economy, global trade and what comes next. We'll speak with US Trade Representative Jameson Greer. And taking on Trump, I wish he
- [01:16]
Josh Shapiro
would just adhere to the Supreme Court's ruling and stop the pain for the American people.
- [01:21]
Martha Ross
We're one on one with Pennsylvania Governor Josh Shapiro discussing the President's tariffs and immigration policies as his party looks for momentum in the midterms. If there is a surge of ICE
- [01:33]
Jameson Greer
agents into Pennsylvania, what do you do?
- [01:34]
Martha Ross
We are pre and nuclear ultimatum. They must make a deal.
- [01:41]
Josh Shapiro
Bad things will happen if it doesn't.
- [01:44]
Martha Ross
President Trump pushes Iran for a nuclear deal as US Military forces amass for possible strikes. Ian's panel is live in the region. Plus our roundtable with results from our brand new poll just two days before President Trump's State of the Union.
- [02:04]
Josh Shapiro
From ABC News, it's this Week.
- [02:06]
Martha Ross
Hear now, Martha Ross.
- [02:08]
Josh Shapiro
Rabbits.
- [02:10]
Martha Ross
Good morning and welcome to this Week. It was a major blow to President Trump's signature policy of sweeping tariffs and a rare rebuke from the Supreme Court. On Friday, In a stunning 6 to 3 ruling, the court overturned 70% of Trump's tariffs, which have upended the global economy and created uncertainty for businesses and consumers. The President felt fuming and calling the decision a disgrace, has now turned to a provision in the law never before used by a President to declare a new across the board 15% tariff on all nations. But that only works temporarily. This comes just two days before the President delivers his State of the Union with members of the Supreme Court presumably there in the front row. And it comes as our brand new ABC News Washington Post Ipsos poll shows the American public largely critical of the Trump presidency. Trump's disapproval rating now stands at 60%, the highest of his second term and the same as when he left office in the wake of January 6th. And majorities of Americans disapprove of Trump's handling of key issues, including the economy, immigration, tariffs and inflation. We will get to all of that, but we begin with our chief White House correspondent, Mary Bruce on the Supreme Court's bombshell decision.
- [03:33]
Josh Shapiro
My fellow Americans, this is liberation Day.
- [03:36]
Martha Ross
This week, the president's signature economic policy. Thank God for tariffs. My favorite word is tariff. Tariff is the greatest thing that's happened to this country. Dealt a staggering blow by the Supreme Court declaring most of his sweeping tariffs illegal. The Supreme Court's ruling on tariffs is deeply disappointing, leading to a presidential tirade in the White House briefing room. Trump attacking the justices who ruled against him. They also are a frankly disgrace to our nation. Those justices, they're very unpatriotic and disloyal to our Constitution. The three liberal justices on the court were joined by the conservative Chief Justice John Roberts and two of Trump's own appointees, Neil Gorsuch and Amy Coney Barrett.
- [04:25]
Jameson Greer
Do you regret nominating them?
- [04:27]
Martha Ross
I don't want to say whether or not I regret. I think their decision was terrible.
- [04:30]
Josh Shapiro
I think it's an embarrassment to their families.
- [04:33]
Martha Ross
Trump had imposed tariffs by invoking emergency powers, but the high court found he exceeded his authority, saying only Congress has the power to impose taxes. Justice Gorsuch writing, most major decisions affecting the rights and responsibilities of the American people, including the duty to pay taxes and tariffs, are funneled through the legislative process for a reason. Some business owners who brought the case against the administration celebrating. If I could pull a metaphor from
- [05:02]
Josh Shapiro
the Olympics that we're all watching now, it's, it's, I imagine it's like winning a gold medal.
- [05:08]
Martha Ross
This week. Caught up with Maryland's Barton o' Brien last April as the tariffs pinched his pet supply business. We have $150,000 worth of dog harnesses sitting in our factory right now. And with the current 145% tariff, I'm actually better off just lighting that on fire and taking the loss than I am trying to bring it into the country. After the ruling, Barton telling us his relief was short lived. We all expected this. The tariffs were clearly illegal. But that didn't last very long because, you know, within a matter of minutes, the administration said they're going to use
- [05:45]
Jameson Greer
other methods to put more tariffs on.
- [05:47]
Martha Ross
We don't know what that's going to look like the president wasting no time, doubling down, announcing he'll use other authorities to get around the court's decision and impose even more tariffs. Today, I will sign an order to impose a 10% global tariff under section 122 over and above our normal tariffs already being charged. Less than 24 hours later, the president upping those tariffs to 15%. But those can only stand for 150 days, with Congress required to approve any extension. That decision causing uncertainty across the globe as countries grapple with the new tariff landscape. Thank you very much, everybody, and prepare for what other tariffs Trump may issue in the future. And our thanks to Mary. She will be back with us in just a moment. But we want to get straight to The Trump administration's U.S. trade representative, Jamison Greer. Thanks for joining US this morning, Mr. Ambassador. We know the President is imposing these 15% tariffs across the board around the world. But President Trump had said if the Supreme Court struck down his tariffs, we would be screwed, that it would be the biggest threat in history to United States national security and that we would be financially defenseless. How do you see that?
- [07:08]
Jameson Greer
Well, first of all, thank you for having me on. And the president addressed this in his press conference on Friday. And he said that since we were looking at this and the possibility of having this tool removed, we had to look at backup plans and we found ways to really reconstruct what we're doing. Now, it doesn't have the same flexibility that the president had under the previous authority that he was using, but it gives us very durable tools. It allows us to do investigations, implement tariffs where needed, and provides a lot of leverage and a lot of protection for American industry.
- [07:41]
Martha Ross
Well, the president said on Friday also that despite his anger over the decision, it made a president's ability to both regulate and impose tariffs more powerful. If that is the case, why didn't he choose that to begin with?
- [07:57]
Jameson Greer
It mostly had to do with needing to act very quickly. The statute we were using was an emergency statute, and the president selected to use it because of the huge expanse in the trade deficit, 40% expansion under President Biden. He came in, he needed to move very quickly. He did. Trading partners came to the table right away. They opened their markets to us. We imposed tariffs. Now we're in a situation that we have these deals. We can reconstruct what we need. We can reconstruct our half of the deal with section 301, section 232, which are other tariff authorities with clear designations of authority that we can put in place and keep for as long as needed to resolve the problems that we discover.
- [08:37]
Martha Ross
But there's so much he cannot do. I mean, the Emergency act allowed him to impose tariffs as large as he want, as little as he wants, for as long as he wanted. So how in the world is this more powerful, according to the President?
- [08:53]
Jameson Greer
Because both the majority and the dissents and everyone recognized that iaipa, even though it might not allow the president to charge a fee, it allows him to fully embargo countries. It allows him to ban conduct, you know, financial and commercial conduct with certain individuals or other problems arising from issues happening overseas. So it really clarified what you can and can't do under IPA and crystallized that and made it clear that he could take those actions. Now, many presidents have taken those kinds of actions over the year, but now, now we have the Supreme Court coming out and saying the president has the authority to have full embargoes, which is much more powerful than a tariff.
- [09:31]
Martha Ross
The 50% tariffs, of course, will expire at the end of July. That's about three months before the midterms. So what does President Trump do at the end of that period with midterms looming that have to be. He comes out and extends it. He comes out and announces more. This is not popular with the American people. In our latest poll, two thirds of Americans are not happy with the tariffs.
- [09:57]
Jameson Greer
Well, the president's been campaigning on tariffs and protecting American industry for many years, and he does what he says. He delivers on his promises. And so the policy hasn't changed. The legal tool to implement it, that might change, but the policy hasn't changed. And so we're aiming for continuity. There's a 15% tariff now. It's roughly equivalent to the types of tariffs that we had in place under ipa. As this tool expires, I'm going to be conducting Section 301 investigations. The Commerce Department has existing tariffs under Section 232. A lot of tariffs are still in place. The reality is we want to maintain the policy we have, have as much continuity as possible, make sure that business understands this is the, you know, this is the direction we've been going. We're going to continue going this way. And there's been a through line to President Trump, Biden and President Trump again, that we're going to have tariffs, we'll have tariffs on China, we'll protect US Industry. It's actually not as big a change as people might think that it is.
- [10:52]
Martha Ross
I know you're looking at section 301, 232. This includes a threat to national security, violing US rights under trade agreements that may be unreasonable or unjustified. How do you decide what to pursue as a national security interest? Furniture doesn't seem like a national security interest. Lumber, how do you decide that?
- [11:14]
Jameson Greer
So the commerce department is looking at this, and they already have in place, as you mentioned, protective tariffs on things like steel and aluminum. Those are tariffs that have been in place again since 2018. President Biden kept them in place. There are tariffs on autos. Anything involving manufacturing, frankly, can really feed into the ecosystem. We need to have security. I think we all found out during the pandemic that even things like textiles, people thought this isn't a big deal. But we have to have personal protective equipment for our hospitals. We have to have uniforms for our military. You know, I don't think we're doing national security action on textiles, but I just pointed out that things that people might think are ho hum commodities, they actually become quite strategic when it comes to national security. So whether it's, you know, lumber for housing or cars and the factories and the ecosystem that go along with them for transportation, these are the types of things we need to have a strong economy, have a strong industrial base to prepare us for times of war and other things.
- [12:11]
Martha Ross
Sounds like a pretty wide net there. Are there any countries you're specifically investigating at this point? You talk about these investigations.
- [12:19]
Jameson Greer
So we have opened section 301 investigations of Brazil and China. We expect to be initiating investigations related to things like industrial excess capacity. This will cover a lot of these countries in Asia that have overcapacity. They make more than they can consume, and they crush prices throughout the world because they're not following basic economics. They're just building factories to build them and keep people employed. We're looking at unfair trading practices and things like rice overseas, where people have lots of subsidies and they kill our rice farmers here. So there are things all over the board that we're looking at right now.
- [12:56]
Martha Ross
And you mentioned China. President Trump has a meeting with China's President Xi next month where the president has used the threat of bigger, larger, huge tariffs over the last year. So how does he approach Xi this time? Does he just leave these lower tariffs in place, or does he use China as an example?
- [13:17]
Jameson Greer
Well, right now, everyone, we've replaced the tariffs that were struck down by the supreme court with a 15% tariff that applies globally. It doesn't single out any country. It's 15% globally going into this meeting. The purpose of the meeting with president Xi, it's not to fight about Trade, it's to maintain stability, make sure that the Chinese are holding up their end of our deal and buying American agricultural products and Boeings and other things and making sure they're sending us the rare earth that we need. It's really about monitoring that agreement. If there are places for additional agreement, we'll find them, and developing the President's relationship with each other. So I don't see this really affecting that meeting.
- [13:55]
Martha Ross
And I want to ask you about refunds. It's estimated that the tariffs raised $142 billion in revenue through the end of last year. Will you refund the money immediately or wait for a court order?
- [14:10]
Jameson Greer
Well, we need the court to tell us what to do. They've created a situation where they struck down the tariffs and gave zero guidance on this. Historically, as a trade attorney, in my experience, courts will normally give you some instruction on what to do. When the Court of International Trade, which is a district level US Court, my expectation is that they'll have to step in and give some direction on how they want that to be done, if at all, whether plaintiffs had to have made a claim or not. We just need to have guidance from the court.
- [14:38]
Martha Ross
Okay. Thanks for joining us this morning, Mr. Ambassador. We appreciate it.
- [14:43]
Jameson Greer
Thank you, Martha.
- [14:44]
Martha Ross
And to help us analyze the political, economic and legal fallout from the Supreme Court's decision, our chief White House correspondent Mary Bruce is back with us, ABC's Elizabeth Scholzie, who covers the economy and SCOTUS blog editor Sarah Isger. Welcome to you all. And Mary, the President, you just heard the trade rep there. But the President was clearly fuming about this. He does not have enough tools, the same tools that he had before. Why was he surprised about this, given what he said? Yeah, I mean, look, this was a rare rebuke by the court. The President isn't used to losing and he certainly doesn't like it. And we saw that in the briefing room. I mean, the President was furious. He railed against the justices in very personal terms. I mean, he called them fools and lap dogs without evidence. He accused them of being swayed by foreign interference. And look, this is a President who expects loyalty from the court and certainly from his appointees. And he now is having to come to terms with the reality and the limits of his presidential power in a way that he certainly isn't accustomed to. And it will certainly be interesting on Tuesday night when he comes face to face with those limits when he's facing the justices, although he did say he doesn't care if they show up or not. And Sarah, from a legal standpoint, listening to oral arguments back in November, this really shouldn't have been a shock. No, this is the most consequential case on presidential power that we've probably had in decades. But it also is in line with what they've said before. Presidents trying to use vague emergency powers delegated by Congress simply are going to lose at the court. Biden student loan, debt forgiveness, Trump trying to send the National Guard to Chicago and now tariffs the court saying Congress needs to get in the game. Presidents cannot do the job of Congress by themselves. And Elizabeth, my takeaway from what the trade representative just said is those refunds aren't coming until there's a court order, not anytime soon. He made pretty clear, James and Greer, that it's going to take an order from the International Trade Court to basically say what's going to happen to those refunds. Keep in mind, we are talking about 300,000 importers that have paid those tariffs. We've already seen lawsuits from companies like Costco and small businesses trying to get that money back. But basically now it's gonna take some time for that to play out as small businesses. It's gonna take longer for them to figure out that process. They often don't have those resources. And basically what it comes down to when it comes to those refunds, short lived elation, temporary relief, not gonna happen right now. Sarah, if these new tariffs, as we know this 15% go into effect, then they have to redo it at the end of July. How legally sound is all this? So Trump's new tariff authority is really two different things. One is limitations in what he can tariff and the other is limitations in how long he can tariff. Now, remember, we've seen in the TikTok example that he will sometimes just ignore those congressionally set deadlines. The difference here is that if he tries to extend them unlawfully, I think we will see a lot more lawsuits coming back around. Mary, I want to go back to China and asking him about the trip. He's going to China. President Trump's going to China next month. This really changes things. First of all, he goes in to China as a loser on this. Yeah, it changes everything. I mean, the President has now lost that main pressure point. He has been using these tariffs or the threat of tariffs with China and with others around the world as a point of leverage to get what he wants. And you know, Jamison Greer there, and we've heard from the administration in recent days, are certainly trying to downplay the impacts of this decision. They are insisting, you know, they will be able to have this continuity. Although you heard Jamison Greer there say they will have less flexibility. The president has conceded this will lots of hidden, this isn't easy. But he now goes into China in that trip next month, you know, of course, defeated by the court. And it certainly, I think will embolden China. They will feel more confident going into these meetings. And as you heard Greer say, they want to make sure that they are seeing these deals followed through. Well, how do you do that when you've lost that main pressure point upon which so much was hinging? And Elizabeth, we have just a few seconds here, but I want you to talk about what this means for consumers. Yeah, I think it's really important to keep in mind a lot of businesses have absorbed the costs of these tariffs. They've tried to take them on whether that means taking on more debt, laying off workers, but at the same time costs have been passed down. All of the tariffs combined, including the Supreme Court ones that were struck down, were about sixteen hundred dollars per household on average, according to the Yale Budget Lab. Even with those tariffs gone, including the new ones that the president just announced, we're still looking at about $1300 per year per typical household. That is a significant cost. When we think about how budgets are already stretched. We're still looking at a lot of uncertainty, no doubt. Thanks for joining us this morning, all of you. Coming up, Pennsylvania Governor Josh Shapiro was at the White House when the Supreme Court's tariff decision came down. He'll explain how President Trump reacted. When we come back.
- [19:48]
Josh Shapiro
An all new season of the Secret Lives of Mormon Wives is coming to Hulu and Hulu on Disney plus on March 12th.
- [19:53]
Martha Ross
Mom Talk has just been blowing up.
- [19:55]
Jameson Greer
Whitney and Jen are on Dancing with the Stars.
- [19:57]
Martha Ross
Taylor is a bachelorette. Saying that out loud is crazy. Like that is huge. But all the cool opportunities could pull us apart. It's causing issues in everyone's marriage. My whole world is falling apart right now is chaos.
- [20:10]
Josh Shapiro
Watch the Hulu original series the Secret Lives of Mormon wives March 12th coming to Hulu and Hulu on Disney for
- [20:16]
Martha Ross
Bundle Subscribers Terms Apply 911 where is the emergency? It's the middle of the night in a small town on the Jersey Shore. Someone reports an abandoned car on a bridge. A search gets underway for the missing driver, 19 year old Sarah Stern. Is it a missing person? Is it a suicide? At this point, nobody knows. Old friendships, buried cash and a sinister plot that was once pitched as a movie plays out in real life. I'm juju chang from 2020 and abc audio. Listen to bridge of lies coming March 10th wherever you listen to podcast. Many of the nation's governors gathered in Washington, D.C. this week for the National Governors association winter meeting, including Pennsylvania's Josh Shapiro, who's out with a new book, where we keep the stories from a Life of Service. I spoke with Governor Shapiro shortly after he attended a White House breakfast meeting Friday with President Trump, and he was in the room with the president when the Supreme Court ruled against his tariff policy.
- [21:27]
Josh Shapiro
He was going on and on about other topics and an aide interrupted him, handed him a note. He read the note. He asked the aide if that meant, I think he said we lost as a question. The aide nodded in affirmation. He called it a disgrace. And I think he took one more question from a governor and then moved on. Look, I think the disgrace, frankly, is what he's done to our farmers in Pennsylvania, the way he's hurt consumers. Now it looks like he's going to try and make an end around, which is only going to create more chaos and higher costs for the American people.
- [21:59]
Martha Ross
So let's talk about the end around. He's talked about this section 122. What does it mean? Do you think he can do it?
- [22:06]
Josh Shapiro
I think there's real legal questions. And look, we've seen now that the president was acting outside his legal authority, by the way, not a new thing for him as someone who's had to take him to court 19 times as governor. The thing about the tariffs is he's doing it in a way that is hurting the American people, hurting our farmers, hurting consumers, hurting our small businesses. We know that, by the way, the president knows that. That's why he offered a bailout to our farmers. He acknowledged the fact that his policies are hurting Pennsylvanians, hurting Americans. I wish he would just adhere to the Supreme Court's ruling and stop the pain for the American people.
- [22:41]
Martha Ross
I want to touch on foreign policy. I know you're governor, but it's important to everybody in the country. You've seen this massive buildup in the Middle east, the president threatening to strike Iran. Would you support that?
- [22:54]
Josh Shapiro
I'd want to know what the president's goals are. I'd want to know what his objectives are about. The only thing we know now, thanks to reporting from you and others, is that there's been this massive buildup of military assets in the region. Look, we know the Iranians, these are the bad guys. These are the folks that are. These are the people who are the largest exporter of terrorism around the globe. You will find no sympathy from me when it comes to the Iranians. But what I want to see from our commander in chief is clear purpose, clear intentions, clear directives, and I think he owes the American people that answer before engaging in military action.
- [23:33]
Martha Ross
Let's talk about the state of the Democratic Party right now. You said that November's election needs to be a referendum on President Trump and that Democrats need to focus on reining in the excesses, the chaos, the. The cruelty, the lawlessness of this administration. So what exactly is the pitch on how Democrats should do that?
- [23:51]
Josh Shapiro
I've called for a national referendum on these chaotic, cruel, and corrupt policies of the Trump administration. Show up, vote in record numbers. And if you do, it is likely we'll not only reelect a bunch of Democratic governors who are holding the line here and protecting the rule of law, but we're very likely, and by the way, maybe even just in Pennsylvania, with our competitive congressional seats, to flip the balance of power in Congress. That accomplishes two things. Number one, it stops the cruel policies from passing through the Congress of the United States. And number two, Congress finally will ultimately act as a check on this administration, as is their constitutional obligation.
- [24:35]
Martha Ross
People in the past have focused on Donald Trump and what he's doing. What are the Democrats going to do that's different? What is that message?
- [24:44]
Josh Shapiro
I think it's how I'm governing in Pennsylvania, how other Democratic governors are governing. Let me focus on my commonwealth. We've invested in our schools, in safety and economic opportunity, and we've done so in a way that protects people's fundamental rights and freedoms. We haven't engaged in cruelty designed to attack a specific person based on what they look like or where they come from, who they love, who they pray to. That's the kind of governing that we're showing in. By the way, the swingiest of all swing states in the country, a state that has a divided legislature, one US Senator that's a Democrat, one that's a Republican, a divided congressional delegation.
- [25:22]
Martha Ross
The New York Times ran a story last week that said why Pennsylvania's two most powerful Democrats don't speak. Is that true?
- [25:30]
Josh Shapiro
Yeah. That's not true. And I guess journalists sometimes want to conjure up a lot of drama.
- [25:35]
Martha Ross
How would you describe your relationship with Fedman? Do you speak?
- [25:38]
Josh Shapiro
We have a constructive relationship to try and ensure that the people of Pennsylvania are served. He and I are obviously different people. He cast some votes and takes some positions that I strongly disagree with. But at the end of the day, my job is to serve the people of Pennsylvania.
- [25:52]
Martha Ross
Would you support him if he seeks re election?
- [25:55]
Josh Shapiro
Well, he has to decide if he's seeking reelection. That's not for another cycle.
- [25:59]
Martha Ross
It's not for another cycle. But you think you have to.
- [26:01]
Josh Shapiro
I don't know if he's running for reelection. I think he needs to decide if he's running and then we'll make a decision from there.
- [26:06]
Martha Ross
You'll make a decision once he decides. So you haven't decided yet whether you're decide.
- [26:12]
Josh Shapiro
He needs to decide if he's running for reelection and then we'll make a determination thereafter.
- [26:17]
Martha Ross
Tom Homan, he took over in Minnesota, as you know, and he's now saying it will be different than it was with Greg Bovino. They will do these targeted raids against people they know that are there, that they think are there illegally or have committed a crime.
- [26:33]
Josh Shapiro
To me it's less important who's in charge. What's more important is that these individuals are being sent out on what I think are compromised and unconstitutional missions. As we saw in Minneapolis, the directions coming from the President of the United States.
- [26:49]
Martha Ross
If there is a surge of ICE agents in defense the of penalia, what do you do?
- [26:52]
Josh Shapiro
We are prepared, I will tell you. Governors prepare for all kinds of emergencies, for a weather emergency or God forbid, a terrorist incident or a shooting, awful things like that. We are now preparing should the federal government against our will, deploy federal officials into our communities. It was interesting in the governor's meeting, one of the governors asked the President, what did you learn from Minnesota and what happened there? And the president said in the way he says things, I learned we're only going to go to places where we're wanted, where people say please and thank you. We do not want that kind of chaos in our communities in Pennsylvania. So don't come. But if you come, we are prepared to address it.
- [27:39]
Martha Ross
Our latest ABC News Washington Post Ipsos poll found that 70% of Democrats support abolishing ICE. Do you support abolishing ICE?
- [27:48]
Josh Shapiro
I think what's clear is that ICE is not working. What's clear is that they've been engaged in unconstitutional practices and that needs to be fixed. And I think the first step is what the Congress of the United States is doing right now to try and put some controls on that. And I want to see those controls be put into effect again.
- [28:05]
Martha Ross
But controls not abolished.
- [28:07]
Josh Shapiro
I'm not going to get caught up in labels here. It's what I said.
- [28:10]
Martha Ross
It's not a label really. Do you get rid of them all together or do you try to do it better.
- [28:15]
Josh Shapiro
I think what is clear is that the manner in which they are being directed is a manner that directs them to go violate people's constitutional rights. And that is not something I support.
- [28:26]
Martha Ross
A theme of your book is that there's more uniting us in this country than dividing us.
- [28:31]
Josh Shapiro
Yeah.
- [28:31]
Martha Ross
What's uniting us?
- [28:32]
Josh Shapiro
I know it doesn't feel that way. And I actually set out to write this book, book to speak to the goodness that my wife Lori and I see every day as we travel across Pennsylvania, that the people who maybe despite some political differences, are united in our communities. And in the middle of that, in the middle of writing this book about all the light that emanates from the people that I meet. Darkness landed on our doorstep with that attack at the residence. But from that we saw extraordinary light of people coming together of different things, faiths, and praying for us. When you actually get out, particularly in my state, you find people from all different walks of life, all different faiths, who have that shared humanity, that light, that goodness. That's what I want people to take away from this book.
- [29:20]
Martha Ross
Our thanks to Governor Shapiro. Up next, with a massive US Military buildup near Iran, will President Trump launch strikes to try to force Iran to make a nuclear deal? We'll have the latest from the region when we come back. You said today on Iran bad things will happen. If Iran doesn't really bad things, what will? That I'm not going to talk to you about that. What is the goal if there is a US Military? Well, we're going to make a deal or we're going to get a deal one way or the other. But when the military strike, you need to wipe out their nuclear power. I'm not going to talk to you about that. But we're either going to get a deal or it's going to be unfortunate for them. ABC's Karen Travers pressing the president about his plans for potential military action on Iran. For the very latest, let's go overseas to ABC's Chief Foreign Correspondent Ian Panel in the region. And Ian, you heard the president there just break down what the US could be preparing for here. This is a massive buildup.
- [30:22]
Josh Shapiro
Yeah, absolutely huge. I mean, you now have the largest assembly of U.S. forces in the Middle
- [30:26]
Jameson Greer
east that we've seen in years.
- [30:28]
Josh Shapiro
You have two aircraft carrier strike groups, more than 100 cargo planes, refueling tankers, fighter jets, multiple bases, and we think something in the region of 35,000 U.S. troops across the Middle East.
- [30:39]
Martha Ross
Now, the president has said repeatedly that
- [30:41]
Josh Shapiro
he prefers a diplomatic solution, but now he also says he is considering a limited strike to try to force Iran into making a nuclear deal. Frankly, it remains an open question how successful that would be. Iran is insistent that it wants a negotiated solution. But while saying it's prepared for peace, it's also stressing it's ready for war. Iran warning that if it's attacked, it'll respond decisively and that all bases, facilities and assets of what it calls hostile forces, in other words, the United States, would be legitimate targets. The president has given the regime less than two weeks to come back with proposals on curbing its nuclear program, ballistic missiles and support for proxy militant groups.
- [31:23]
Martha Ross
So far, there's no indication that Iran
- [31:25]
Josh Shapiro
is going to agree certainly to all of that. And if it doesn't, then the ball is in Trump's court. He certainly has the firepower to launch an attack. But to what end? What's been missing in all this buildup is a clear explanation of what the president wants to achieve.
- [31:40]
Martha Ross
Martha, that is indeed the big question. Thanks to Ian panel. The Roundtable is up next. We're back in a moment
- [31:50]
Josh Shapiro
from 30 for 30 podcasts.
- [31:58]
Martha Ross
Did you say someone got shot? Brian Pata, senior defensive lineman from Miami, gunned down the key to this case.
- [32:06]
Josh Shapiro
It's Brian. An hour before he died, he was
- [32:10]
Martha Ross
on the phone arguing with somebody.
- [32:11]
Josh Shapiro
This might be a hit. You want the truth? They just want a conviction.
- [32:15]
Martha Ross
Being placed under arrest. We had a killer amongst us.
- [32:18]
Josh Shapiro
Murder at the U. Listen now. Friends like these. The murder of Skyler Nice is now streaming on Hulu and Hulu on Disney+911.
- [32:26]
Jameson Greer
Do you have an emergency? I have a 16 year old daughter.
- [32:29]
Martha Ross
Can't get a hold of her.
- [32:30]
Jameson Greer
I am scared to death.
- [32:31]
Martha Ross
We wanted to talk to Skylar's friends. They're not telling the full story.
- [32:35]
Josh Shapiro
The truth is gruesomely horrific.
- [32:37]
Martha Ross
How could you do this to your best friend?
- [32:40]
Josh Shapiro
There's a darker secret that's not been said. Watch the new Hulu original series Friends like the murder of Skylar Neese on Hulu and Hulu on Disney for bundle subscribers. Terms apply.
- [32:52]
Martha Ross
And the Roundtable joins me now. Former DNC chair Donna Brazile, ABC News correspondent Jay o' Brien, who covers Capitol Hill, USA Today, Washington bureau chief Susan Page and National Review editor Ramesh Panuru. Great to see all of you. Susan, I want to start with you. Let's talk about the State of the Union. I'm sure the president will, will come out and say the State of the Union is terrific, but he also faces this Supreme Court loss. Yeah, it's a tough time for the president. And you know, the most nervous people in that hall are not going to be the Supreme Court justices. They know that President Trump is going to have harsh words and they never applaud or debate and they're impassive. It's congressional Republicans because Trump isn't on the ballot in November. But the midterm elections are going to be all about Trump. He's doubling down on tariffs, which Americans think hurt the economy. And he continues to argue that the economy is going great when that is not how it feels to most Americans. Jay, you're on Capitol Hill every day how Republicans feel about this decision.
- [33:47]
Josh Shapiro
There are some who are breathing this temporary sigh of relief because they don't
- [33:51]
Martha Ross
have to be saddled with an unpopular
- [33:52]
Josh Shapiro
policy on tariffs despite the president doubling down. But also there is this unease because we've seen the president muse about bringing a vote to Congress to codify these tariffs. It's unclear if leadership's going to get behind that. Speaker Johnson has talked about the best path forward, but we don't know exactly
- [34:09]
Martha Ross
what path is it doubtful he'd go? It's unclear because he's been trying to.
- [34:13]
Josh Shapiro
Johnson doesn't want him to. Johnson's been trying to block his members from taking a tough tariff vote, but if he's left with no other option, he might have to, and that puts them in a tough spot.
- [34:22]
Martha Ross
Donna, our poll show that the tariffs were very unpopular. So is there any sense that this could actually help the Republicans? I mean, given what Jameson Greer said, oh, everything's going to be about the same, but not really. I mean, look, the worst job creation since 2003, only 181,000 jobs. Last year. He promised that this, the tariffs would lower prices. In fact, Americans paid more than $2,000 more for groceries, for furniture and for other products it has designated. I mean, the manufacturing sector has not revived. So I don't think the president is going to take a victory lap, although he's going to pretend that everything is golden like he believes. But the truth is the American people are in a state of anxiety over the country, over their financial future, and they are worried sick about what's going on in Washington. Ramesh, were you surprised at the vitriol coming out of the president about the justices, two of whom he appointed? Well, in another presidency, you might have heard somebody say, we're disappointed in this decision, we disagree with it, but we're going to roll forward. I don't know that anybody expected that kind of sober, even keeled response from this president, I think we're at this point kind of inured to the kind of demagogic attacks he makes. But it really is beyond the pale that he questioned their loyalty to the country for reaching a different legal conclusion, even though it's loyalty that the Constitution they're trying to do. Susan, let's turn to Iran. You heard Ian there in the last block talk about the potential. I've been reporting on that as well for the past few weeks. Do you think it will happen? Do you think this is something the president would do? I think it is something he could do. And the question now is, is there unstoppable momentum for an attack? He set a deadline. He said bad things will happen. If there's not, you've got that massive buildup. That's right. We've sent two aircraft carrier groups to the region. But what he hasn't done is give a single speech to the American people explaining why this would be crucial for the United States to do. Nor has he explained clearly what exactly is the goal? Is it regime change or the nuclear program or protecting protesters or something else that is not yet clear? Previous use of the military didn't get us in a huge war. You had the 12 day war against Iran last year hitting the nuclear facilities. This could be different. This could be longer. How would Republicans feel like that, feel about this? If this is possibly sustained or if there are attacks, if there's retaliation and people are injured, there's a lot of things that can go wrong.
- [36:57]
Josh Shapiro
And I think it goes back to the point on that why? And it's something that you've brought up in your reporting a lot. The president has to make it clear what the why is. Because he said Iran's nuclear program was obliterated and he briefed members of Congress on that. And so every time these Republicans go
- [37:13]
Martha Ross
out to a camera, that is the
- [37:14]
Josh Shapiro
talking point that they repeat.
- [37:16]
Martha Ross
And now they're going to be confronted
- [37:18]
Josh Shapiro
with questions of why are we in Iran? If the President has said the alternate, he has an opportunity on Tuesday night to start to give the American people his thinking.
- [37:27]
Martha Ross
But so far he hasn't done that. And it may well be that we've hit Iran by then, who knows? And he could talk that way. He hasn't brief members of Congress, Martha. He hasn't not only. Or the American people. Or the American people. And Susan is right. He keeps changing the goalpost. We don't know what he's trying to do and we're not sure that he does. Ramesh, look, he's had he had corning them a very successful in Venezuela, a huge operation that appeared to go exactly the way they wanted to and flawlessly. But this is a president who campaigned on keeping America out of wars and he has used the military in these kind of one day, as we said, these kind of one day strikes or a couple of day strikes. But this really could be very different. I think we've established that Republican voters, including MAGA voters, they're not in principle against using the military overseas, but they do want a defined and compelling and achievable objective. We don't know what that is, as we all have been saying. And he hasn't explained what it is. Well, in some ways, I mean, he says he wants a nuclear deal, right. So he could pressure them to come to the table under his terms. I'm not sure that that is going to be something that a lot of Republican voters find compelling enough to get another paper promise from this regime, particularly when we already had a deal with them over the nuclear program that Trump tore up. It would have to be quite an extraordinary deal to come out of this on the good side, I suppose. Jay, let's go back to the Hill. We've got the Department of Homeland Security shut down, which for a while there was no real fallout. We didn't feel it. But overnight the president announced that we will now not have TS. Maybe the President didn't announce that, but not have TSA PreCheck and no global entry. And for people who don't know what that is, that is very convenient for people who haven't. So what is this? Did they really have to get rid of this at this point or are the Republicans playing hardball? It's suspended right now and the question
- [39:30]
Josh Shapiro
has been do they have to suspend it? Because you could make lines bigger and more work for TSA agents if you suspend those. But right now DHS says those two are suspended.
- [39:40]
Martha Ross
Also personal escorts for members of Congress
- [39:43]
Josh Shapiro
through the airport that is suspended. So it ratchets up the personal pressure on a lot of these members and you hit the nail on the head. The longer a shutdown goes on, the worse the impacts always are. This was always considered to be one of those shutdowns that would not hit the American people personally for a while. But we're seeing this impact that was really not anticipated, not something that DHS had prepped.
- [40:03]
Martha Ross
The American public was going to come and it's going to hit people hard
- [40:07]
Josh Shapiro
and it's going to make them rethink the shutdown.
- [40:09]
Martha Ross
So the Democrats rethink the shutdown.
- [40:11]
Josh Shapiro
Possibly. Possibly.
- [40:12]
Martha Ross
But they also are backing an issue
- [40:14]
Josh Shapiro
that we've seen in the polling a lot of Americans support.
- [40:16]
Martha Ross
Susan, let's talk about the other issues the president is sure to address on Tuesday, and that's immigration. Here's what our poll. 58% disapprove of Trump's handling of immigration, 62% oppose ICE tactics, 77% say federal agencies need judicial approval for forcibly entering someone's home. Although the best issue in our poll was him at the border, about 50% and what he's done with the Mexican border. So we got to give him credit for that there. Half the people like it. So how does he address this? Here's an issue that was an asset to him in the election in 2024 has now become a liability. I think the repercussions of the protest in Minneapolis and the killing of two American citizens who were protesting was a real turning point. He's now 18 in your poll. 18 points underwater in approval on immigration. And you were talking about the shutdown. The underlying issue behind the shutdown are Democratic demands of new limits on ICE agents who are enforcing deportation orders and other immigration laws. And that is a debate Democrats will be happy to keep having. I suspect on Tuesday night, if he talks about immigration, which I bet he does, he talked about mostly about the Mexican. The border with Mexico. That's right. And that is an accomplishment. The problem for him is that because it's an accomplishment, the salience of the issue has gone down. The administration, having sealed the southern border, had a choice to make about what strategy it was going to pursue. Tom Homan wanted to do something that prioritized violent criminals. He lost that internal debate in favor of a more maximum confrontation strategy. That's what he's paying for. Now, Donna, if you're listening to all this news about Republicans in our poll, wasn't that great for Democrats either. They didn't really think the Democrats were handling any of this any better. Democrats have picked Governor Abigail Spanberger from Virginia to deliver the response to Trump. What's the party trying to signal with having her? Well, she's a great choice because once again, as governor, just for almost two months, I mean, she's focusing on affordability. Democrats need to earn the trust of the American people. They earn the trust by saying, we're here, we're listening to you. It's not about giving one speech or having multiple rallies. It's about making sure that the American people know that we are going to address their issues, their concerns, not just about affordability, securing the borders, keeping our communities safe. And I think she's able to articulate that message on behalf of the Democrats. Donna, I want to close and we just have about a minute here. With the death of Reverend Jesse Jackson at age 84, it can't exaggerate his power and his influence of the civil rights movement. You were close to him. You worked on his first presidential campaign. You know, when I think about my own growth and many of us who came through that struggle, Reverend Jackson was that bridge from Dr. King's generation to my own and into the future. He was Dr. King's lieutenant who understood that civil rights wasn't just for black people, but it was for all Americans. He will be remembered for not only the voter registration campaigns. Keep hope alive. Our time has come, but helping us in a new era. I see the bridge from Martin Luther King to Jesse Jackson to, of course, the election of Barack Obama. He made America, you know, feel hope again. I'm going to miss my brother. I'm going to miss those late night calls, those early morning calls. But he was a man of deep faith and optimism and I hope the American people will pay tribute to a great America. And lots of images from those years of Jesse Jackson, especially when Barack Obama was elected president. Quite, quite a history. Thank you so much to all of you. I know you'll all be watching the State of the Union very careful Tuesday night. We all will be. Thanks again. Up next, we'll bring you a remarkable story of one boy's resilience and recovery from the war in Ukraine as we approach four years since the conflict began. I'm RJ Decker, the private investigator uncovering the Sunshine State's darkest secrets.
- [44:23]
Josh Shapiro
Tuesdays, it's the premiere of ABC's hottest new crime show, RJ freaking Decker. As I live and breathe, he's a private eye.
- [44:31]
Jameson Greer
It's not a standard murder.
- [44:33]
Josh Shapiro
Something bigger and a public mask trying to get sent back to prison.
- [44:36]
Martha Ross
Today you go to prison one time
- [44:38]
Josh Shapiro
and suddenly it's all the jokes. RJ Decker Series premiere Tuesdays on ABC and stream on Hulu.
- [44:47]
Martha Ross
It's the Paradise Podcast. I am your host Ryan Michelle Bathe with my husband Sterling.
- [44:53]
Josh Shapiro
What's up?
- [44:54]
Martha Ross
Join us here on Hulu and Hulu on Disney where we'll discuss each episode with the cast and crew of Paradise. I'll be getting all the secrets from Dan Fogelman, James Marsden, Shailene Woodley, Julianne Nicholson and Sterling Kelby Brown. Paradise, the official podcast is now streaming and stream paradise on Hulu and Hulu on Disney for bundle subscribers. Terms apply. This Tuesday marks four years since Russian tanks crossed the Ukrainian border and shattered peace in the country, with little hope of an end to the war in sight. Overnight, Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky announcing that in just the past week alone, Russia launched more than 1,300 drones and more than 1,400 bombs against Ukraine, including dozens of ballistic missiles. Over the course of this war, some 15,000 Ukrainian civilians have been killed, according to the U.N. more than 3,000 of them children. Yet those who have survived this war, the countless who have been wounded both physically and emotionally, are a story of resilience. Since Russia launched its full scale invasion of Ukraine four years ago, the toll on its population and its children has been devastating. 11 year old Roman Alexei bears the deep scars of Russia's aggression roman was only 8 when a missile attack hit the clinic where he and his mother were for a routine visit just five months into the war.
- [46:32]
Josh Shapiro
We sat down on the couch and were waiting for our appointment. I was thrown back and mom was still lying next to the couch and said lie down. Then the second explosion happened.
- [46:45]
Martha Ross
This is when Roman says everything went dark. When his eyes opened, he saw his mother lying in the rubble. She did not make it out alive that day.
- [46:57]
Josh Shapiro
I went up to her, I said goodbye to her and started making my way out further.
- [47:04]
Martha Ross
A man picked me up and carried
- [47:06]
Josh Shapiro
me to the ambulances.
- [47:07]
Martha Ross
Roman's father, Yaroslav, an accordion player like Roman and his mother, was working at a music academy hundreds of miles away when he saw the images of the clinic on the news. When he finally made it to Roman,
- [47:23]
Josh Shapiro
you couldn't recognize him.
- [47:24]
Martha Ross
Doctors said Roman's best chance at survival would be abroad. They were lucky to find care in Germany, where Roman spent a month in a coma and then began a three year rehabilitation journey. 36 surgeries later, his recovery remarkable, regaining movement in his fingers and beginning to play the accordion again. Told he may never walk, Roman went a step further, returning to an old ballroom dancing. Even competitively, it's like my hobby and that's all. And second is my therapy. When I'm dancing, it's therapy for my
- [48:02]
Josh Shapiro
leg, but when I'm playing accordion, it's
- [48:05]
Martha Ross
therapy for my two hands and arms. He's undeterred by the burns of that day, showing the world how the children of this war have persisted, Roman's story resonating across the globe, even bringing this translator to tears at the European Parliament. The story is now part of a documentary from director Yevgeny Afanivsky whose film Children in the Fire shows the war through the eyes of eight Ukrainian kids, many of them on Capitol Hill this month.
- [48:42]
Josh Shapiro
I wanted specifically to give voice to
- [48:45]
Jameson Greer
the younger generation of Ukrainians about their
- [48:47]
Martha Ross
dreams, about their future, about their resilience,
- [48:49]
Jameson Greer
about their hope and about their unbrokenness.
- [48:52]
Martha Ross
Unbroken despite the suffering. Afenivsky had psychologists with the children as he spoke to them and used animation to tell their stories of trauma and real life images to show triumphs.
- [49:07]
Josh Shapiro
For me, each of these children already won this war.
- [49:10]
Jameson Greer
Despite the war is happening. For me, these children are amazing resemblance
- [49:15]
Martha Ross
of role models of the younger generation
- [49:17]
Jameson Greer
of Ukrainians that we want to see
- [49:19]
Josh Shapiro
in the future Ukraine.
- [49:21]
Martha Ross
For Roman, sharing his story gives him strength, hope and a mission.
- [49:29]
Josh Shapiro
When I look at the scars, I always remember my mom and these things that happened. I do miss my mom a lot. But yes, I also do feel courage
- [49:39]
Martha Ross
after all of this that I've lived through. And this son of musicians finds rhythm in a famous Ukrainian poem.
- [49:49]
Josh Shapiro
The poem, it's about the fact that humans have wings and they're not physical wings but moral wings. The fact that we can help others.
- [49:58]
Martha Ross
And Roman is doing everything he can to help bring attention to this ongoing war and the children who have shared his pain. A remarkable boy. We'll be right back. Be sure to tune in Tuesday night right here on ABC with David Muir. That's all for us today. Thanks for sharing part of your Sunday with us. Check out the world news tonight and have a great day.
- [50:36]
Josh Shapiro
ABC Wednesdays, the Emmy winning comedy scrubs is all new.
- [50:40]
Martha Ross
This is a whole new chapter for me. No more sad sack.
- [50:43]
Josh Shapiro
That's what I'm talking about.
- [50:44]
Martha Ross
I want both of our sacks to be fun. You two idiots are perfect for each other.
- [50:48]
Josh Shapiro
From executive producers of Ted Lasso and shrinking.
- [50:51]
Martha Ross
We were all a of part part of this victory. Now get those nachos out of the premium warmer nachos. Feels like there's more applause for the
- [50:59]
Josh Shapiro
nachos than my speech. The new season of scrubs Wednesdays 87 Central on ABC and stream on Hulu.