Full Episode: Sunday, June 22, 2026

Summary

Podcast Summary: "This Week with George Stephanopoulos"

Episode Date: June 22, 2026
Main Hosts: John Dickerson, Martha Raddatz, Jonathan Karl
Main Theme:
This episode centers on the precarious state of the recent Iran peace deal, U.S.-Iranian negotiations in Switzerland, domestic and global political fallout, detailed policy analysis, and side journeys into American history and politics.

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Overview

Amidst escalating Middle East tensions, the show explores whether President Trump’s much-publicized 60-day peace deal with Iran is already unraveling. The episode features on-the-ground reports, in-depth interviews with policy experts, administration figures, and critics—including exclusive analysis from Obama-era National Security Advisor Susan Rice. The roundtable wrestles with the U.S. administration’s strategy, the deal’s domestic political ramifications, and the broader implications for both the Democratic Party and the evolving American political landscape. The episode ends on a lighter note, with a segment about George Washington’s historic beer recipe.

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Key Segments & Discussion Points

1. Setting the Stage: Is the Iran Peace Deal Collapsing?

[02:08] – [04:20]

• John Dickerson recaps the latest developments: Vice President J.D. Vance is meeting Iranians in Switzerland while the status of the Strait of Hormuz—a flashpoint for global oil trade—is in dispute after Iranian retaliation for Israeli attacks in Lebanon.
• Trump's 60-day "memorandum of understanding" is praised by him as a triumph, but faces fierce bipartisan criticism.
  • Notably, Republican Senator Bill Cassidy calls it "the worst foreign policy blunder in decades," and Senator Ted Cruz objects to concessions to Iran.
• ABC's Tom Sufi Burrige in Switzerland and Brit Clennant in Israel provide context on the tense ceasefire and talks.

Quote:
“President Trump is declaring the 60-day memorandum of understanding a triumph, suggesting that if he didn't end the war, the world could have faced a global depression.” — John Dickerson [03:13]

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2. On-the-Ground Updates: Switzerland and Israel

[04:20] – [06:22]

Tom Sufi Burrige:

• Reports from the site of the U.S.-Iran negotiations.
• Quotes Vice President Vance:
  • “Can we turn over a new leaf? Can we change relations in the Middle East permanently?” — VP Vance (paraphrased) [05:00]
• Notes risk: Iran closed the Strait of Hormuz again; the deal's foundation is wobbly before nuclear discussions truly begin.

Brit Clennant ([05:40]):

• Ceasefire in Lebanon between Israel and Hezbollah is "tenuous at best"—fighting continues.
• Both sides blame each other; the U.S. is accused of not pressuring Israel sufficiently, making Lebanon a “pressure test” for the whole deal.

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3. Expert Panel: Is the Peace Deal a Fantasy?

[06:22] – [11:52]

With David Sanger (NYT) & Karim Sajapour (Carnegie Endowment):

• David Sanger [06:47]:
  • Skeptical that either side wanted the optics of a handshake.
  • Basis of the deal—reopening the Strait for a ceasefire—looks fragile; Iran’s compliance may be tactical.
  • Rebuts VP Vance’s claim of ending Iranian nuclear ambitions: “Well, actually, none of this has been accomplished. ... It deals with one of the four big nuclear issues. Further enrichment isn’t discussed. Closing nuclear facilities isn’t discussed. Inspection isn’t discussed.” [07:18]
• Karim Sajapour [08:33]:
  • Argues the deal is a gamble: if bombing didn’t force change, maybe "bribing" Iran will.
  • “This is a regime that fears global economic integration. ... Their revolutionary ideology is the glue that keeps the security forces together.” [08:53]
  • No evidence the “new regime,” following the Supreme Leader’s death, has moderated.
• Sanger [10:26]:
  • Conventional Iranian military is degraded, but nuclear and missile objectives still unmet.

Memorable Moment:
“The president called you just before this was signed, which I found extraordinary, because just a month earlier he had accused you of treason.” — John Dickerson to David Sanger [11:02]

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4. Trump Administration’s Defense: Interview with Energy Secretary Chris Wright

[11:54] – [20:06]

• Chris Wright [12:11]:
  • Argues U.S. military leverage compelled Iran to the table:
  • “They don’t have the leverage they’ve always had in talks before.”
  • Strait of Hormuz functionally open; describes three channels, one mined but U.S. now ensuring oil flows, diminishing Iranian leverage [12:58].
  • Predicts continued decline in energy prices regardless of talks’ success [14:08].
  • On gas prices: “Oh, I’ve long been out of the business of predicting oil or gasoline prices. But they will continue to head down.” [14:08]
  • On war risk and economics: “There’s just no greater risk to energy prices, to the economy of the world than a nuclear armed Iran. ... He [Trump] knew he was going to drive up energy prices in the short run. He had the courage to take the action anyway.” [15:26]
  • On Iranian missiles: Admits missile production is only “probably degraded by 90%,” not zero [17:42].
  • Defends concessions: Oil sales for Iran will only return to previous levels; additional windfalls dependent on “provable progress” in nuclear talks [19:02].
  • “You’ve got to put that carrot out there. That’s the aspiration.” [19:59]

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5. Critics Respond: Susan Rice’s Take

[20:11] – [28:24]

• Susan Rice [20:37]:
  • Calls the MOU a “jaw dropping, horrific surrender with reparations.”
  • Laments major up-front concessions: immediate oil sales, banking access, assets unfrozen—without meaningful nuclear progress.
  • Compares unfavorably to Obama’s deal: “Under the Obama nuclear deal, they couldn’t have relief from oil sanctions until the deal was fully implemented.” [21:23]
  • Iran allowed to charge transit fees through the Strait of Hormuz.
  • “The other crazy thing about this memorandum ... is that we commit to withdraw U.S. military forces from the vicinity of Iran.” [22:58]
  • Weak peace deal preferable to war? Rice: “This ends a stupid war. ... [But now] Iran can use the Strait of Hormuz to hold us and the global economy hostage anytime they want.” [24:05]
  • Fallout: Costly war, weakened U.S. standing, no regime moderation, “a strengthened Iran in terms of its geopolitical stature.” [27:12]
  • On the Iranian people: farther from reform or regime change, new Supreme Leader is young and radical. [25:56]

Notable Quote:
“We’ve lost 13 servicemen and women. We have paid over $50 billion of taxpayer money for a war we never should have waged. ... And we’ve shown that when the United States, the greatest military on the face of the planet, and the Israeli military, throw the kitchen sink at Iran, they can be left still standing, which weakens us globally.” — Susan Rice [24:58]

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6. Roundtable Politics & Analysis

[30:09] – [45:24]

• Participants: Chris Christie, Donna Brazile, Faz Shakir, Sarah Isgur, Don Lemon, Maggie Haberman, Karim Sajapour
• Chris Christie [31:17]:
  • Trump’s shift from aggressive rhetoric to quick endgame shows “no strategy”; blames desperation over economic fallout from the Strait's closure: “He’s gone from America first to Iran first.” [33:02]
• Faz Shakir [33:16]:
  • Argues progressives and Democratic Socialists’ “America first” vision is gaining traction because of failures abroad and unmet needs at home.
• Don Lemon [34:28]:
  • Points out the memorandum omits key issues and that the administration is now reinterpreting its own deal.
• Maggie Haberman [35:39]:
  • Critiques presidential “unilateralism” in foreign policy, noting Congress’s sidelining. The deal may violate the Iran Nuclear Agreement Review Act.
• Donna Brazile & John Dickerson [44:50]:
  • Discuss fallout for the Democratic Party and how it must rebuild coalitions after Kamala Harris’s loss and Trump’s re-election.
• Faz Shakir vs. Chris Christie [41:47 – 43:51]:
  • Debate whether the progressive wave can translate into actual governance and policy accomplishment.

Memorable Quote:
“This is a very dangerous time for the Democratic Party. ... The Democratic Party is at a turning point where it could cease to be the Democratic Party.” — Maggie Haberman [45:01]

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7. History and Culture Spotlight: George Washington’s Beer

[46:39] – [51:03]

• Segments from the New York Public Library and Brooklyn’s Tulea Brewery:
  • The original 1757 George Washington beer recipe is revived.
  • "Small beer" explained as a safe hydration source, not for intoxication.
  • Modern brewers reproduce both the original and a contemporary twist.
• Light, humorous tasting and history lesson: “Now that’s a good beer. Fantastic.” — John Dickerson [50:56]

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Notable Quotes & Timestamps

• “The ending of the Iranian nuclear program, all of these things have already been accomplished.” — VP Vance quoted by Tom Sufi Burrige [04:52]
  (challenged throughout the episode)
• “This is a regime which actually fears global economic integration. ... That is a big bet.” — Karim Sajapour [08:53]
• “I opposed this war because it was a stupid war.” — Susan Rice [24:53]
• “He gives them the option of opening or closing the Strait of Hormuz ... he gives them a $300 billion bribe offer ... He’s gone from America first to Iran first.” — Chris Christie [33:02]
• “We’ve lost 13 servicemen and women... The American consumer is paying more than $50 billion in increased costs... and we’ve shown that ... Iran ... can be left still standing, which weakens us globally.” — Susan Rice [24:58]

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Top Takeaways

• Iran Deal on the Brink:
  The peace deal, lauded by Trump, faces bipartisan criticism for granting Iran major concessions with minimal oversight or clear restrictions on its nuclear program while the region remains volatile.
• Shifting U.S. Policy:
  Military leverage was used to force Iran to the table, but critics argue the deal squandered U.S. advantages, and question whether any real shift within the Iranian regime has occurred.
• Political Fallout:
  Democrats and Republicans alike are wrestling with the legacy and consequences of the Trump administration’s actions; Congress has been sidelined in decision-making.
• Domestic Reflections:
  The conversation segues to Democratic Party soul-searching after defeat, and the rising influence—but limited governing track record—of progressive and Democratic Socialist movements.
• History as Relief:
  The closing segments offer a lighter exploration of American history and culture, showing the show’s capacity to blend hard politics with human interest stories.

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Important Timestamps

| Segment Description | Timestamp | |-----------------------------------------------|----------------| | Peace deal & regional context | 02:08–04:20 | | On-the-ground updates from Switzerland/Israel | 04:20–06:22 | | Expert analysis (Sanger, Sajapour) | 06:22–11:52 | | Interview: Chris Wright (Energy Secretary) | 11:54–20:06 | | Susan Rice critique | 20:11–28:24 | | Roundtable: U.S. politics & Iran | 30:09–45:24 | | George Washington’s beer + NYPL visit | 46:39–51:03 |

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This episode offers a vivid snapshot of high-stakes global diplomacy under strain, intense U.S. political infighting, and moments of cultural curiosity. With a blend of sharp critique, cautious optimism, and historical reflection, it’s essential listening for anyone tracking international affairs or the evolving dynamics of American politics.

Transcript

[John Dickerson]

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[John Dickerson]

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[John Dickerson]

Last selection varies by location. Vice President Vance is meeting with the Iranians in Switzerland. But is the peace deal in jeopardy? This week starts right now.

[Donald Trump]

Shaky agreement just as long as they're behaving. I really don't care that much the

[John Dickerson]

Vice President touches down in Switzerland to meet face to face with the Iranians. I think we're hopefully making progress on the nuclear issue. This after Iran said it has closed the Strait of Hormuz, blaming attacks by Israel into Lebanon. The US Says the strait is open. So which is it? We'll ask Energy Secretary Chris Wright. Bipartisan backlash. Giving billions of dollars to theocratic lunatics

[Progressive Insurance Announcer]

who want to murder us is an exceptionally bad idea.

[John Dickerson]

What Trump has done in Iran is

[Lowe's Commercial Announcer]

the art of the disaster.

[John Dickerson]

Jaw dropping, horrific surrender. That's what Obama's national security advisor Susan Rice is calling the deal. She joins us live. A this Week exclusive.

[David Sanger]

We need a Democratic party with backbone.

[John Dickerson]

The roundtable on calls for a Democratic Party shake up revolutionary beer. So we're here on Fifth Avenue in New York to give you a look at a piece of American history. More than 250 years old brewers in Brooklyn have dusted off George Washington's beer recipe. We check out the new Liberty Lager. You made George Washington's beer, but you also wanted to make a variation that was a little bit more modern, correct?

[David Sanger]

From ABC News, it's THIS Week here now.

[John Dickerson]

Jonathan Karl, Good morning. Welcome to this Week. As we come on the air this morning, Vice President J.D. vance is meeting with the Iranians in Switzerland. But even as that meeting gets underway, there are real questions about whether the President's 60 Day peace deal is already in jeopardy. Iran's state controlled media said late yesterday that the Strait of Hormuz is closed. They said that was in retaliation for Israel's attacks over the weekend on Lebanon, which Israel says were in response to attacks from Hezbollah, which of course is supported by Iran. The Israel Hezbollah ceasefire, which is a requirement of this Iran deal appears to have been broken and then reinstated twice over the past 48 hours. As for the deal itself. President Trump is declaring the 60 day memorandum of understanding a triumph, suggesting that if he didn't end the war, the world could have faced a global depression. He has slammed Democrats for attacking his deal. But some of the harshest criticism has come from Republicans. Republican Senator Bill Cassidy called it the worst foreign policy blunder in decades. Senator Ted Cruz said giving billions of dollars to theocratic lunatics who, who want to murder us is not a good idea. And the chairman, Republican chairman of the Senate Armed Services Committee said that the deal, quote, negotiates away the victories of Operation Epic Fury in ways that are completely out of step with the President's goals. And then there's the New York Post owned by Rupert Murdoch, which called the deal worse than Obama's. We will hear in a moment from Susan Rice, who helped craft President Obama's nuclear deal, and from Trump Energy Secretary Chris Wright. But we begin with ABC's Tom Sufi Burrige in Switzerland where the Iran U. S. Negotiations are just now underway and ABC's Brit Clenant and Israel where the incredibly tenuous ceasefire could derail the whole process. So, Tom, let's start with you. We saw Vice President Vance arrive, the Iranians arrive. What's going on right now?

[Tom Sufi Burrige]

Yeah, John, I think we had some pretty bold and big language from the Vice President as he kicked off those talks at a luxury resort just around the corner from here, calling it a historic day, asking whether Iran and the the US can turn a new leaf, transform their relationship, change things in the Middle East. But I think there was also recognition, John, from the Vice President about the more pressing issues at hand, namely reopening the Strait of Hormuz and also securing a ceasefire in Lebanon. Take a listen to part of what the Vice President said just moments ago.

[John Dickerson]

The opening of the Strait of Hormuz,

[Chris Wright]

the ending of the Iranian nuclear program, all of these things have already been accomplished.

[John Dickerson]

The question before us now is how

[Chris Wright]

much more can we accomplish together?

[John Dickerson]

Can we turn over a new leaf? Can we change relations in the Middle east permanently?

[Tom Sufi Burrige]

John? Of course, looming over everything right now is the fact that Iran Saturday announced that once again it was shutting the Strait of Hormuz. So even before these much more complicated negotiations begin on the future of Iran's nuclear program, that memorandum of understanding signed by President Trump less than four days ago appears to be at risk of falling apart. John?

[John Dickerson]

All right, Tom, thank you. Let's get to you, Brit, because it doesn't, it looks like that ceasefire between Israel and Hezboll is tenuous at best. What is going on right now.

[Susan Rice]

Yeah, John, you could argue this ceasefire in southern Lebanon never actually really began. The fighting is ongoing between Israel and Iran backed Hezbollah. At least 28 people killed since the cease fire was announced on Friday. Israel saying it targeted Hezbollah positions in response to incoming fire. While Hezbollah accuses Israel of striking first. Both sides clearly showing a little restraint. Little restraint, rather threatening to unravel these talks. The US Accused of not fulfilling its commitment in the memorandum to pressure Israel to stop its attacks in Lebanon. All eyes on President Trump to see if he can push Israel to comply. The focus on Lebanon as a pressure test where this whole deal could collapse,

[John Dickerson]

John, sure doesn't look like a ceasefire. All right, Brit, Tom, thank you very much. I am joined now by senior fellow at the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace Karim Sajapour and and New York Times White House and national security correspondent David Sanger. All right, let me start with you. First of all, it was extraordinary to see Vance there with the Iranians. No handshake that we saw yet, but is this deal already falling apart?

[David Sanger]

Well, first on the handshake, I don't think either one of them really wanted to see that. Vice President Vance wouldn't want that photograph repeated if he runs for president, as seems likely, and the Iranians have some significant elements to that. Second, the premise of the agreement, which is that you're going to reopen the strait in return for a broad ceasefire, including Lebanon, that's showing to be increasingly tenuous. And we could be in a situation we don't know yet where access to the strait just gets turned on and off by the Iranians or pushed up and down in its level, depending on what's happening in Lebanon and elsewhere. But then the vice president said something in that clip that really did kind of astonish me. He said that the ending of the Iranian nuclear program, all of this has been accomplished. Well, actually, none of this has been accomplished. There's 14 paragraphs of a deal. It has one paragraph on the nuclear program. It deals with one of the four big nuclear issues. Further enrichment isn't discussed. Closing nuclear facilities isn't discussed. Inspection isn't discussed.

[John Dickerson]

The one thing that's in there is saying that Iran will not obtain or develop a nuclear weapon, which of course was in the Obama deal in the

[David Sanger]

first paragraph and in 1970 when they signed the Nuclear Non Proliferation Treaty.

[John Dickerson]

Kareem, you are out just now with a very interesting piece in the Atlantic. I want to read a quote from that. Embedded in this document, this memorandum of understanding is a new gamble that if Iran's revolutionaries can't be dislodged by force. They might instead be bribed to abandon their identity. What did you mean by that?

[Karim Sajapour]

So Trump's first big gamble was the hope that bombs. You can bomb Iran into submission. That didn't work. The second big gamble now is can you bribe Iran's revolutionaries to essentially give up their longtime ideology of death to America and death to Israel in exchange for economic concessions, in exchange for economic integration and prosperity. And the reality is that this is a regime which actually fears global economic integration. It believes it stays in power because of its revolutionary ideology, which is the glue that keeps the security forces together. So that is a big bet. Now, Vice President Vance has said behind the scenes, there actually. There actually are signs that Iran's Revolutionary Guards are rethinking the revolutionary ideology, but we don't see any public evidence of that.

[John Dickerson]

I mean, Trump has said more than that. President Trump has said that this new regime, which he says is new because the supreme Leader was killed and his son is now in charge, and some of the other leadership has been killed. But is there any evidence that this new regime has moderated the way that the president has said?

[Karim Sajapour]

Zero evidence that this is a regime which has moderated its internal conduct or its external conduct. And I think the great challenge that both President Trump and Vice President Vance have is that four months ago, they argued this regime is so dangerous we have to bomb them. Now they're arguing that it's changed so profoundly that we can offer them billions of dollars in concessions.

[John Dickerson]

And let me ask you, David. The president has pushed back hard on the notion that Iran has emerged from this stronger than they were before the war started, as some have said. Does he have a point? I mean, the Navy's been damaged, he says the Air Force has been. The Navy's been eliminated, he says the Air Force has been eliminated. Missile program's been taken out. Not entirely, but significantly. Does he have a point?

[David Sanger]

He certainly has a point that the nuclear program, the conventional military program is much degraded. The nuclear program is not at this point. He did that a year ago. A year ago this weekend when he bombed them. But. And it's under rubble. But the objective of this was not to cripple Iran's conventional military program. It was to get them to give up all of their nuclear capability and the missile capabilities surrounding it. And that's what has not happened yet.

[John Dickerson]

By the way, the president called you just before this was signed, which I found extraordinary, because just a month earlier, he had accused you of treason. But I mean, what was the point? He wants people to believe this is the greatest deal. Does he believe it himself?

[David Sanger]

I think he does. You know, I think he believes this the way I think he believed in the first term that his negotiations with Kim Jong Un would eliminate the North Korean nuclear program. Now the North Koreans still have 60 nuclear weapons or more in the Iran case. I think he believes that he has so crippled their military that they will now fold on all of the rest of these issues. And that's what we're about to discover in the talks in Switzerland. But these are not technical talks as the Vice President referred to them. These go to the core of the program.

[John Dickerson]

All right, David and Kareem, thank you both.

[Karim Sajapour]

Thank you.

[John Dickerson]

And I'm joined now by Energy Secretary Chris Wright. Secretary Wright, thank you for being here. As we sit here now, the Vice President is in Switzerland for meetings with the Iranians. What do you expect to come from this first round of talks?

[Chris Wright]

I think this first candid dialogue will set out what the Iranian goals are and what they think the trade offs they might have to make are. We've just never been in this situation before. The US Military, both in the actions to destroy the Iranian military capabilities and to force a way through the Strait of Hormuz without any dialogue, have just put the Iranians in a massively different situation. They don't have the leverage they've always had in talks before.

[John Dickerson]

Well, let me ask you about the strait because the Vice President said the strait is open, the Iranians said it's closed. And we heard that 55 ships came through yesterday. What is the status? Are we partially opened? Is there really? When do we get back to the levels that we had before the war?

[Chris Wright]

Well, 55 ships two days ago, as you said, 67 went through yesterday on an, on an oil and oil products volumes about equal to where we were before the war. But there's three channels through the straits. There's the middle normal navigational channel that unfortunately the Iranians have mined, so that needs to be demined. Then there's a separate route up north by the Iranian islands that they've tried to force ships through. And then there's a southern route that the United States military has been escorting ships through for several weeks. And I think it's that returning the flows back towards normal without any cooperation at all from Iran. That's the leverage President Trump used to get the Iranians to come to the table and realize they're going to lose all the cards in their hand. Maybe they can make a deal that brings some benefit to Iran. Maybe they can't.

[John Dickerson]

So we've seen oil prices have come down pretty significantly even before the reopening started. How soon do you expect gas prices to get down to the levels that we saw before this war?

[Chris Wright]

Oh, I've long out of the business of predicting oil or gasoline prices. But they will continue to head down. Flows of oil and natural gas through the straits have already returned to normal and they will continue that way. Whatever happens with the negotiations with the Iranians, we've got growing American production, surging production in Venezuela, we've got cooperation with all the other energy producers of the world. So I think Americans can expect continued declines in energy prices.

[John Dickerson]

But let me. The other question is what happens if it falls apart? You just said if it falls apart we'll still see declining prices. But I want to play you something that President Trump said at the G7. He seems to have President Herbert Hoover on his mind. Take a listen.

[Donald Trump]

The one president I did not want to be was the late great Herbert Hoover. Rather than possibly going into a depression, rather than having your favorite president be Herbert Hoover, I was always the one I didn't want to be.

[John Dickerson]

I mean what he's saying there, and he has said a few different times, is that if we go back to a state of war with Iran, we face the risk of global depression. Is that not true?

[Chris Wright]

Look, the president. No, I don't. Well, look, the President has been advised all along, despite the media proclamations that there was enormous risk to energy flows to engage the Iranians on their nuclear program in a military fashion. But he simply was unwilling to leave to his successor in nuclear armed Iran. That's just, there's just no greater risk to energy prices, to the economy of the world than a nuclear armed Iran. He knew he was going to drive up energy prices in the short run. He had the courage to take the action anyway to destroy their air force, their navy, most of their nuclear program and a lot of their military industrial complex, I think to massive benefit to future generations. But he knew that was a risk to energy prices. We've paid the price with higher energy prices in the midterm and then we have worked with our military focused on restoring flow with or without the Iranians to reduce their leverage and get to a good answer. But he knows the risk he's playing with. He took those chances and the Americans win by it.

[John Dickerson]

And he seemed to be saying he didn't want to, he couldn't go further because the risks would have been even greater. But let me Move to another thing. He, when he first engaged in this, when he first launched this war, he said that one of the key objectives, and this was repeated by Marco Rubio several times as well, was to obliterate Iran's missile program. Take a listen.

[Donald Trump]

We are going to destroy their missiles and raise their missile industry to the ground. It will be totally, again, obliterated.

[John Dickerson]

He's saying

[Donald Trump]

if other countries have them, it's a little bit unfair for them not to have some. A ballistic missile is not the same thing as what we're talking about when we talk nuclear. But if Saudi Arabia and Qatar and they all have some, I would say in relative proportion, I think it's okay.

[John Dickerson]

So how did we go from saying that the objective of the war was to destroy their missile program to saying that they've got a right to have missiles?

[Karim Sajapour]

Why?

[John Dickerson]

Why the change?

[Chris Wright]

Well, look, I think it's a matter of degrees. We've probably degraded their ability to make missiles by 90%. That is a massive, I think you could call that an obliteration of their missile making industry. But the President recognizes if they have, if they become a normal nation and they become a citizen of the Gulf community, for them to have a modest amount of missiles, as he said, proportional to their neighbors, that's not an unreasonable end to aim for. But in the meantime, they have been just massively more armed than all their neighbors. They've spent all of their money and their earnings from their energy industry to arm themselves to the teeth. That has been degraded massively. But need it go to zero? No, it probably doesn't need to go to zero is what the President's saying.

[John Dickerson]

But let me ask you what critics of this deal say that this is a windfall for the Iranians. I mean, they get to sell their oil now in the open markets using the banking system in a way they haven't been able to do for years. They're going to get frozen assets unfrozen, and they have the possibility of something much, much more if the nuclear agreement comes forward. What do you say? This is really a gift to the Iranians and they really haven't given up much of anything.

[Chris Wright]

Oh, Iranians have been selling oil most of the last 47 years. The first Trump administration crimped that down to only a half million barrels a day. They exported over one and a half million barrels a day during the entire Biden administration, which is what they're going to rebound to today. That's all they're getting is the ability to yet sell their oil again. We proved to them for two months we could cease them from selling a drop of oil. And that's important leverage. Now, that's going to return back to where it was. But they're not going to get any of the other funds released, their own frozen funds released, unless there's progress, meaningful and provable progress in the nuclear talks and the large numbers that are thrown around. That's simply the carrot President Trump talks about. They become a normal nation again. Will their neighbors invest to build infrastructure and welcome them to the community? Of course they will. But that's only if they return to a normal nation. They're a long way from that today. But you got to put that carrot out there. That's the aspiration.

[John Dickerson]

All right, Secretary Wright, thank you very much.

[Chris Wright]

Thanks, John.

[John Dickerson]

Appreciate it. And I'm joined now by former Obama national Security Advisor and ambassador to the United Nations, Susan Rice. Ambassador Rice, thank you for being here.

[Susan Rice]

Good to be with you. Happy Father's Day, John.

[David Sanger]

Thank you.

[John Dickerson]

And to all the dad, thank you very much. I want to you called this memorandum of an understanding a jaw dropping, horrific surrender with reparations. So why is it so egregious?

[Susan Rice]

It's egregious, John, because so many concessions were granted up front in this flimsy two page memorandum of understanding that wouldn't normally and shouldn't have been granted until after there was not only a fully comprehensive deal to at least deal with their nuclear program, but also that those provisions that were negotiated had been agreed. So let me just explain to you some of the things that were conceded up front. As the secretary just acknowledged, Iran, as of the signing of the agreement so on Thursday, is now able to sell all of its oil and all of its oil products on the market unimpeded and use that money to rebuild itself

[John Dickerson]

and use the banking system.

[Susan Rice]

And use the banking system. Under the Obama nuclear deal, they couldn't have relief from oil sanctions until the deal was fully implemented, not just preliminarily agreed. Secondly, they get access to tens of billions of dollars of frozen assets in the very near term within the next 60 days contingent only upon the Memorandum of Understanding, this flimsy two page document being implemented. That means essentially once they've opened the strait, they get all the access to their frozen assets without any constraint on how they spend it. In the Obama era deal, they could only spend those frozen assets on humanitarian things, food and medicine. Now they can use it to fund their terrorist proxies. Iran, thirdly, will now be able after 60 days to charge fees for the transit of ships through the Strait of Hormuz, something they could never have done before. They get $300 billion from the United States and our Gulf partners.

[John Dickerson]

Now the administration says the once the deal is says none of that's going to come from the United States.

[Susan Rice]

That's not what the agreement says. It says the United States with our Gulf partners will ensure that they get that money when there's a final deal. And then two other things. When the deal is done. They say all sanctions against Iran, bilateral and multilateral, will be lifted under the Obama deal. After they had fully implemented everything. It was only the nuclear related sanctions that were lifted and final. One last point. The other crazy thing about this memorandum understanding that sets us back enormously is that we commit to withdraw US Military forces from the vicinity of Iran. That means our base is in the Gulf. Are we walking away from the Middle east as a result of this deal?

[John Dickerson]

The administration would say no. And they would say that those frozen assets, although I know exactly what it says, the memorandum of understanding, they say there has to be progress on the nuclear talks first. But let me ask you.

[Susan Rice]

But that's not what the document says.

[John Dickerson]

John, I understand most of our allies in the region seem to welcome this because it meant an end to the war. Isn't a weak peace agreement better than a resumption of a war which I know you opposed from the start.

[Susan Rice]

I opposed this war because it was a stupid war. And it was obvious that when you wage a stupid war that every prior president had the wisdom to avoid, that you were going to end up with either bad outcomes or worse outcomes.

[John Dickerson]

So this ends what you saw as a stupid war.

[Susan Rice]

It ends a stupid war. You get bad outcomes or worse outcomes. This is a very bad outcome. I obviously think we shouldn't have been in this war in the first place because it was obvious for decades that the only way to resolve this problem is through diplomacy. And now we're back to diplomacy with a far weaker hand. Yes, their military has been degraded, but Iran has now figured out they can use the Strait of Hormuz to hold us and the global economy hostage anytime they want. And they've been playing that game over the last 48 hours.

[John Dickerson]

But just to make that fine point, because Ro Khanna, Democrat Ro Khanna, said that he supports this agreement even though he says it's a shadow of the one you helped negotiate with for President Obama or helped put together for President Obama. But he says he supports this because it ends the war. And that's the important thing.

[Susan Rice]

We shouldn't be in this situation, John. This was an extraordinary strategic blunder.

[Chris Wright]

But we are in this situation.

[Susan Rice]

We are in this situation, and we have suffered enormously. The American people have suffered. We've lost 13 servicemen and women. We have paid over $50 billion of taxpayer money for a war we never should have waged. The American consumer is paying more than $50 billion in increased costs. Our standing in the world is weakened. And we've shown that when the United States, the greatest military on the face of the planet, and the Israeli army, the Israeli military, throw the kitchen sink at Iran, they can be left still standing, which weakens us globally.

[John Dickerson]

Let me ask you, one of the tragic things in all of this is the Iranian people, the Iranian Arabs.

[Susan Rice]

Absolutely.

[John Dickerson]

Which rose up while you were in the Obama administration and rose up again now and have just been. Have just been brought down and see no hope. Do you think we'll ever actually see reform and regime change or political reform?

[Susan Rice]

We're certainly further away from that now than we have been for a long time. First of all, the suffering of the Iranian people has been horrific in the context of this unnecessary conflict. And now we have a Supreme Leader who's 30 years younger than his father, radical, in power indefinitely, and we've walked away. You know, President Trump said help is on the way to the Iranian people when they needed it most. And now we say we don't care.

[John Dickerson]

So before you go, I want to ask you about the way President Trump and Vice President Vance have been talking about Israel and the Israelis here. Let's take a look at just what JD Vance said last week. Donald J. Trump is the only head of state in the entire world who is sympathetic to the nation of Israel at this moment in time, and he happens to be the head of state of the world superpower. If I was in the cabinet of the Israeli government, I might not be attacking the only powerful ally that I have anywhere left in the entire world. First of all, is that an accurate description of the state of affairs? That's an extraordinary statement. He said Trump is the only head of state sympathetic to the nation of Israel, that the United States is the only powerful ally that Israel has in the entire world. Is that true?

[Susan Rice]

You know, I think that was an extraordinary statement, and I'm sure it shocked a lot of people, particularly in Israel. But, you know, one of the outcomes of this is, you know, as president, as Prime Minister Netanyahu has himself publicly acknowledged on many occasions, he has tried to persuade many prior presidents to engage in war with Israel against Iran and promising that that would result in regime change and an end to Iran posing any threat. What we've got as a result of that war, which President Trump was the first to take the bait on, what is a strengthened Iran in terms of its geopolitical stature in the region, not militarily, conventionally, in the short term, but its nuclear program is fully intact. There is nothing in that agreement that requires that the nuclear material, the dust, as the president likes to call it, be removed from Iran.

[John Dickerson]

It will stay there or destroy it. It just has to be delivered.

[Susan Rice]

It's going to stay in place. But the Israelis have suffered the most because now, you know this administration, if you take the president and the vice president's words, has basically said to Israel, your concerns are not ours.

[John Dickerson]

All right, Ambassador Rice, thank you very much for joining us this morning. When we come back, a feud between the US and one of America's top allies intensifies all over a supposed photo request with the president. We'll come right back.

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[Jonathan Karl]

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[Donald Trump]

They have a new group of leaders that I think is actually I think they're smarter. I think they're very smart. I think they're far less radicalized. And I think they think they're really good. They love their country, frankly. I think that's regime change. I think they're going to behave much differently. I think they see a different way of life that they were never exposed to.

[John Dickerson]

All right. Welcome back. The roundtable is here. Former New Jersey Governor Chris Christie, former DNC chair Donna Brazile, Bernie Sanders, 2020 campaign manager Faz Shakir, and SCOTUS blog editor Sarah Isger. All right, Chris, I want to start with something that the national Jim Garrity of the national review said about J.D. vance and his predicament as he's here meeting with the Iranians. Garrity writes, a vice president who apparently never wanted to start the war now gets the job of selling the country on a deal with one of the world's most untrustworthy and treacherous regimes. You almost have to feel sorry for Vance, almost. I mean, this is a tough position for him.

[Lowe's Commercial Announcer]

Well, let's put all this in context, right? I give the president all the credit in the world for the June bombing of the nuclear sites. But now we get to February, he tells us this is about regime change, unconditional surrender, eliminate the nuclear threat and eliminate their missile capability. That's what he tells us. He then does five weeks of war less than what the Pentagon wanted him to do. And then he stops and he stops and fills the air with a whole bunch of empty threats about when he's going to restart. Then he gets to the point where the Iranians have him in a corner because of the economic calamity that's caused by something that apparently his geniuses in his national security team didn't anticipate, that they would close the Strait of Hormuz. How they didn't anticipate that, John, I don't know. So now he has to make a deal because he feels the economy in the United States crumbling beneath him. And what's he do? He gives them the option of opening or closing the Strait of Hormuz based upon their interpretation of whether they have

[John Dickerson]

to work it out with Oman.

[Lowe's Commercial Announcer]

Right. US And Israel are complying. US And Israel not a party to the agreement. He gives them a $300 billion bribe offer. He unfreezes all of their assets. He gives them their oil profits back, which is 35 to $50 billion a year on top of it. He doesn't prevent Them from charging service fees to go through the strait, which JP Morgan says could be 60 to 90 billion dollars a year. And now to end it up, to end where you started, he hands over the negotiations to a naive and inexperienced vice president and two other guys who would be better buying you an office building in Alexandria than negotiating this. And let me say this. He's gone from America first to Iran first.

[John Dickerson]

All right, but Faz, let me ask you, I talked to Susan Rice about what Ro Khanna said, which Ro Khanna said, I support this. I mean, I don't think it's a good deal what Obama did, but it's better than continuing the war.

[Faz Shakir]

Well, he's in a box canyon and he's trying to find a way out and this is the best he can do. So in my mind, you know, war that never should have started, of course we should have some accountability over the judgment of this war that should play into the elections. We know that AIPAC is going to spend probably something like $100 million that they're sitting on right now in their efforts. They are trying to take on Bernie, aoc Zorami, a whole bunch of progressives, because they don't want to see vision that is America first that says, hey, instead of spending money in Iran, how about we have Medicare for all? How about we have affordable housing in America? How about we talk about building affordable good transportation and infrastructure in America? These are choices. And one of the choices that's been left on the table is we spent money elsewhere. And the democratic socialist movement and populist left is increasing in support because there's an integrity of saying, hey, America first. There it is. This is a vision.

[John Dickerson]

And Don, on some breaking news, just while Faz was talking the president out on Truth Social, posting that Iran must immediately stop their highly paid proxies in Lebanon from causing trouble. If they don't, we will hit Iran very hard again. So, but John, but even as Vance is sitting down for these peace talks, he's threatening more war.

[Don Lemon]

Yeah, because if you look at the memorandum of understanding and Lord knows I read it, there's nothing about the proxies, there's nothing about the drone capability, Iran's capability, drone capability. There's nothing about the missile capabilities. And so now the president is reinterpreting something that he's already signed and did not include that in the beginning. So what is the point? As Chris said, we go to war because once again we can thank God we have a strong military. Bless the families of those 13 servicemen and women who lost their lives and those who are continuing to heal from this war. But everyone knew from the beginning that Donald Trump did not have a good rationale to take this country into war. And now out of desperation, they sign a memorandum that doesn't include all of these important points.

[John Dickerson]

But every time he talks about that memorandum, or three times that I've counted in the last few days, he has invoked the name Herbert Hoover.

[Don Lemon]

Hmm.

[John Dickerson]

Which I don't usually hear presidents talk about, but saying basically that if we didn't do this, whatever you think of this memorandum, he thinks it's wonderful, but even if you don't like it, he's described, the alternative is going back to war and plunging the globe into a depression.

[Maggie Haberman]

Do you know what's really missing from all of this? Any talk of Congress and how this is all supposed to work on foreign policy. We have focused so much on the unilateralism of Donald Trump's domestic policy. We actually haven't talked about how the exact same thing is happening on the foreign stage. Remember, majorities of Congress voted against this war, but because it was not enough, it wasn't a veto proof majority, the President has basically been able to ignore Congress. This memorandum of agreement arguably violates a statute, the Iran Nuclear Agreement Review act, which says that you cannot waive sanctions, you can't give the money back without Congress having the ability to review that over 30 plus days. But no one's talking about that because we have accepted, through Obama, through Trump, through Biden, through Trump, the presidents now do domestic policy by executive order, and they do foreign policy unilaterally. So we have this pendulum swing on Iran, we have a pendulum swing on the Paris Climate Agreements. You can't run a country this way. It won't last.

[John Dickerson]

How much is it gonna. How much is this gonna hurt Republicans in the midterms to pick up Faz's.

[Lowe's Commercial Announcer]

Well, at least before this they had a rationale. Our rationale was Iran's a nuclear threat. We're gonna eliminate that nuclear threat, that's good for the world. Now you have the same people who are arguing that, arguing that this is okay. I mean, look, J.D. vance is sitting over there now and you just read the Truth Social Post. You know what the Iranians think of that? They don't care how many times. This is the same guy who said he was gonna eliminate their civilization. He was gonna bomb every bridge, he was gonna bomb every power plant. He did nothing.

[John Dickerson]

I mean, he did hit them pretty hard.

[Lowe's Commercial Announcer]

I mean, towards what end?

[John Dickerson]

Well, that's, that's A question.

[Tom Sufi Burrige]

But he did.

[Lowe's Commercial Announcer]

Well, your job as president is not to just flex your muscles. It is towards an end. There was no strategy here, John. If there was no strategy at all. He won in Venezuela.

[Karim Sajapour]

Yeah.

[Lowe's Commercial Announcer]

So as a result, I want to

[John Dickerson]

ask Don, I want to get you on something else, but we have. And then we're gonna take a quick break. But while he was praising the new regime he calls new regime in Iran, he was going. He was saying things about the Italian prime minister. He said that she begged him for photographs and highly critical of her for not allowing the US to use Italy's bases. And she said that this is completely fabricated and pointed out that Trump was saying harsher things about his friends, about America's allies, than about America's enemies.

[Don Lemon]

She was absolutely right to rebut everything he said because it was clear that the president was walking around at the G7 looking for friends, and everybody was like, huh. So I don't know what that's all about. Look, the bottom line is the president made a huge mistake in going into Iran, and now we're going to pay the price because it was a deal based on desperation and not no real strategy for moving forward.

[Lowe's Commercial Announcer]

I had an Italian mother. He's out of his depth if he's picking his shirt.

[John Dickerson]

She was pretty tough. Did you see her getting his.

[Lowe's Commercial Announcer]

Let me face, John, I live that. That's the way I was raised. See that look like that. That's the way I was raised.

[John Dickerson]

I'm married in Italian. I don't know what you're talking about. Up next, Democrats are still talking about 2024. The roundtable is back with why Hillary Clinton came out blasting Joe Biden this week.

[Progressive Insurance Announcer]

This episode is brought to you by Progressive Insurance. Fiscally responsible financial geniuses, monetary magicians. These are things people say about drivers who switch their car insurance to progressive and save hundreds. Visit progressive.com to see if you could save Progressive Casualty Insurance Company and affiliates. Potential savings will vary. Not available in all states or situations. This episode is brought to you by Progressive Insurance. Fiscally responsible financial geniuses, monetary magicians. These are things people say about drivers who switch their car insurance to Progressive and save hundreds. Visit progressive.com to see if you could save Progressive Casualty Insurance Company and affiliates. Potential financial savings will vary. Not available in all states or situations.

[John Dickerson]

All right, the roundtable is back. So, Faz, let me ask you about what we just heard before the break from Mayor Mamdani saying that basically the Democratic Party needs backbone. Does the Democratic Party heading in his direction, Democratic Socialists of America. I mean, we saw another DSA candidate win the primary here in D.C. they got to the runoff in Los Angeles. Is that where the energy in the party is now?

[Faz Shakir]

Yeah. And populist left candidates, Graham Platner, Abdul Al said a bunch of people who are doing very well right now. And the reason, well, you have to ask why, why are they doing so well? And part of the reason, what Mayor Mohammedani is saying is you have to have an agenda. So we're living in a period of scarcity. Donald Trump is saying $132 billion for Iran. That's great. We should spend that instead. We can't have Medicare for all. We can't have. We have to cut Medicaid, can't have affordable childcare in this country. Got to cut food stamps. Can't do anything about decency of raising the minimum wage to a living wage. No, none of those things are possible according to Trump. And according to most conservative, you know, center left and center right politicians, status quoism. And here you have a movement that is building support because it's saying, here's an affirmative agenda of a vision that is improving the lives of working class people in this country.

[John Dickerson]

But Donna, can that agenda win nationally?

[Don Lemon]

Look, the affordability agenda has many voices. And at a time when the Democratic Party is still searching its way out of the, the 2024 campaign, I feel like every week we're in the coroner's office reviewing another autopsy. It's not just about your spine or your brain and your heart. It's about making sure that you have an agenda that inspires the American people. Whether you live in Washington, D.C. seattle, New York, that, yeah, they may be moving in that direction. But most Democrats are pragmatic, they're centrists. They're also bold in their solution. They understand that progressives want a voice within the party. But I don't believe that this so called energy is going to carry us forward unless we can build coalitions and coalitions that can earn us the votes of the American people.

[Lowe's Commercial Announcer]

Chris, look, this is fine. In this post 2024 period for the rise of folks like Mamdani, they have to show they can actually do the job. He's in the easy part right now. He gets to give speeches, he gets to wear a Knicks jersey, he gets to, you know, run a parade, which I was there, it was sketchy in terms of the way the city helped him run.

[John Dickerson]

He's off to a pretty good start though, isn't he?

[Lowe's Commercial Announcer]

But Jon, I mean, even he's off to a Pretty good start. What does that mean? He has not yet accomplished any of what he talked about in his campaign.

[John Dickerson]

Well, he's been in office.

[Lowe's Commercial Announcer]

How do we.

[Faz Shakir]

Childcare expansion has occurred. Potholes are being fixed. No shoveling occurred.

[Lowe's Commercial Announcer]

You've driven New York. Potholes are being fixed. And that's why, you know, you want to believe the rhetoric the Bondani people put out. They're fixing things. He hasn't done anything yet. I'm not saying he can't. He has not. So to say he's off to a good start means he hasn't thrown up on his shoes. Well, congratulations. That's a great thing. And he can run a rally for a team that wins the NBA championship. Great job. What he's saying right now is all rhetoric and no accomplishment. And I think what Democrats have to show, especially if they get Congress back this fall, is that they can accomplish some things. And the Sanders wing of the party has never shown that they can accomplish anything. Big speeches, no accomplishments.

[Faz Shakir]

There's a finger wag here going on of elites who say, hey, look at these dumb people. Look at this. Mayor Mamdani not doing anything. Look at the people of New York. What are they saying? His in popularity has been increasing. Why just be curious about it. Why do regular working class New Yorkers, some people who voted against him are saying, hey, I like this guy. What's he doing? He wakes up every day with a sense of integrity, of saying, I'm going to improve your life. I'm focused on you. Yeah, I could be worried about Ken Griffin. I could be worried about private equity. I could be worried about Michael Bloomberg. But I'm worried about you. And I'm going to try to work on things. And you, and I know you've had a tough job as mayor or governor of New Jersey. It is hard to be a person in charge. And yet while he does it with integrity, a desire to improve working class people, he's focused on, on the underdogs. And I think it's working.

[John Dickerson]

And let me ask. So he's talking about the party getting together. I want to play what Hillary Clinton said this week. Let's listen to this. This is about Joe Biden.

[Maggie Haberman]

He made a terrible mistake.

[John Dickerson]

He made a terrible mistake for himself,

[Susan Rice]

his legacy and for the country.

[John Dickerson]

We would have had a real contest.

[Susan Rice]

And very sadly, I believe whoever emerged from that contest, whether it was the

[John Dickerson]

vice president or a governor or a

[Susan Rice]

senator or anybody else, would have beaten Donald Trump.

[Don Lemon]

Back at the coroner's office, December 1, 2022, I was there at the DNC meeting when Joe Biden announced that he wanted South Carolina to go first, that was the early sign that Joe Biden was running. We spent most of 2023 arguing about it and then we went into 2024. We can look back all we want at what happened. The fact is Kamala lost President Trump regain the White House, and Democrats have to really figure out how to move forward and how to rebuild a party and a coalition that can govern.

[Maggie Haberman]

This is a very dangerous time for the Democratic Party. I would compare it to the Republican Party in 2012 when Mitt Romney loses and what the Republican base learned from that.

[John Dickerson]

And when you were at the rnc,

[Maggie Haberman]

I was at the RNC for that autopsy. They did not learn to build coalitions. Instead, it fuels the Tea Party movement on steroids. That is what is going to give rise to then Donald Trump defeating the Republican Party before he defeats Hillary Clinton in 2016. The Democratic Party is at a turning point where it could cease to be the Democratic Party.

[John Dickerson]

All right, up next, Scottish soccer fans drank Boston's Sam Adams Tap Room dry this week. That's right. They literally ran out of their flagship beer while celebrating their nation's first World cup game since 1998. Although Sam Adams is one of America's most popular beers, the Boston Brewer wasn't the only founding father with the title Brewer Patriot. We're back in two minutes.

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This episode is brought to you by Progressive Insurance Fiscally responsible financial geniuses, Monetary magicians These are things people say about drivers who switch their car insurance to Progressive and save hundreds. Visit progressive.com to see if you could save Progressive Casualty Insurance Company and affiliates. Potential savings will vary. Not available in all states or situations. This episode is brought to you by Progressive Insurance. Fiscally responsible financial geniuses, Monetary Magicians These are things people say about drivers who switch their car insurance to Progressive and save hundreds. Visit progressive.com to see if you could save Progressive Casualty Insurance Company and affiliates. Potential Potential savings will vary. Not available in all states or situations.

[John Dickerson]

The archives of the New York Public Library are filled with treasured artifacts from American history. Some of those treasures are now on display on an exhibit called Declaring America 1776 and beyond, including one of the first copies of the Declaration of Independence. But we got a look at one of the most prized items in their collection and one that is still behind closed doors, a little known piece of American history. So we're here on Fifth Avenue in New York to give you a look at a piece of American history More than 250 years old from America's founding father that is just now being brought to life. George Washington is a man of many titles. But there's one you might not know about. George Washington's notebook.

[Jonathan Karl]

That's right.

[John Dickerson]

On the very last page of a notebook older than America itself is a special recipe. This is the notebook that he wrote in during the year 1757. So this is George Washington as a British loyalist. Long before Washington was the commander in chief of the Continental army, he was a brewer. It says to make small beer.

[Maggie Haberman]

And then the question is, what is small beer? So small beer was a sort of a lower abv, lower alcohol version of beer. Yes.

[John Dickerson]

It was not a malt liquor.

[Maggie Haberman]

No.

[John Dickerson]

It was one of those IPAs that's 11% alcohol. Not a lager, not an ale.

[Maggie Haberman]

It was not something that you drank with the goal of being intoxicated. What this is, is a, it's a safe method of being hydrated.

[John Dickerson]

When the New York Public Library acquired Colonel George Washington's notebook more than a century ago, at first they were unaware of the uniqueness of what they had purchased. The amazing thing about this, I mean, this is Washington's recipe. This is in his handwriting. This is what he made as a 25 year old colonel. And this has been in the library's collection for over 100 years. To begin making the beer, you first boil the water and in the process ensure it is safe to drink.

[Maggie Haberman]

This would have really been an essential public health tool, which is not really how we think about beer these days.

[John Dickerson]

And you don't want it. You don't want a drunk army either. But this was a low alcohol beer. This was like a 1% or something. To mark America's 250th birthday, the library decided to put Washington's recipe to the test. To make it happen, they turned to Tulea, a women owned and founded brewery based in Brooklyn. We made the trip across the east river to check it out ourselves. You decided to make George Washington's beer.

[Maggie Haberman]

Yes. Because when the New York Public Library asks you to do something, you do it.

[John Dickerson]

They can be very intimidating.

[Maggie Haberman]

Yeah, right.

[John Dickerson]

But in the 269 years since Colonel Washington put his recipe down on paper, a lot has changed about the brewing process.

[Maggie Haberman]

Our brewing team definitely dug in, especially on the technical side and the different variations of fermentable sugars that could be used.

[John Dickerson]

Washington's recipe used molasses as the fermentable ingredient. Something that's not used today. His recipe also left some specifics to be interpreted.

[Maggie Haberman]

I think he says to use a quarter of yeast. Like what, a quarter of one, four pinch quarter, handful.

[John Dickerson]

Sticking to Washington's recipe creates a beer that tastes and looks different from beers today. It doesn't really look, you know, like appetizing.

[Maggie Haberman]

Yeah, right, right.

[John Dickerson]

Looks like it could have been left over from one of George Washington's collections. But this is fresh.

[Maggie Haberman]

It is fresh.

[John Dickerson]

All right. George Washington.

[Donald Trump]

Not bad.

[John Dickerson]

I mean, unusual, I will say a little bit unusual. As expert brewers with access to beer making tools Washington couldn't have dreamed of, the women of Tulea knew that they'd have to tweak that recipe to make something more palatable to the modern drinker. You made George Washington's beer, but you also wanted to make a variation that was a little bit more modern.

[Maggie Haberman]

Correct.

[Jonathan Karl]

So.

[John Dickerson]

So kind of a cousin of George Washington's beer.

[Maggie Haberman]

A more modern approach.

[John Dickerson]

Now that's a good beer. Fantastic.

[Maggie Haberman]

Appreciate it.

[John Dickerson]

All right, we'll be right back. That's all for today. Happy Father's Day. Check out World News tonight and have a great.

[Progressive Insurance Announcer]

This episode is brought to you by Progressive Insurance. Do you ever think about switching insurance companies to see if you could save some cash? Progressive makes it easy to see if you could save when you bundle your home in auto policies. Try it at progressive. Com, Progressive Casualty Insurance Company and affiliates. Potential savings will vary. Not available in all states.