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Select homes only. The US and Israel's war with Iran is spiraling across the Middle east with no end in sight. We're on the ground in Jerusalem. A special edition of THIS WEEK starts right now. Middle east chaos punishing US Israeli attacks expand as President Trump demands unconditional surrender.
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It's where they cry uncle. Or when they can't fight any longer,
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there's nobody around to cry uncle. A defiant Iran striking back across the region. Thousands of Americans still trapped abroad.
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How do you expect us to leave a country that airspaces are closed this morning?
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What comes next?
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They still have hundreds of missile ballistic missile launchers. They still have UAVs, hundreds of missiles launchers, yes.
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We have team coverage from the region and speak with US Ambassador to the UN Mike Walz, former Joint Chiefs of Staff Chairman Michael Mullen, and former Israeli ambassador to the US Michael Oren. Plus, analysis from our expert panel.
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From ABC News, a special edition of this week. Reporting live from Jerusalem, Martha Raddatz.
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Good morning and welcome to THIS week. As we come on the air, American and Israeli jets are pummeling Iran in this second week of war that has set fire, fire to the Middle East. Video, including some posted on X, capturing the aftermath of several attacks as waves of strikes target the regime's military defenses and increasingly the oil facilities. More than 50,000 US troops are now taking part in Operation Epic Fury, with even more on the way. Thousands of Americans have been caught in the conflict, trying to flee some of the many countries targeted by Iranian drones and missiles. The war's fallout is only growing, and so are the unanswered questions about America's goals. Senior administration officials have said the war is about eliminating the threat of Iran's nuclear program and ballistic missiles. But President Trump keeps raising regime change. When he announced the operation, he called on Iranians to overthrow their government. Now, as he threatens to escalate the war, Trump says he should have a say in replacing Iran's supreme leader, who was killed in the Brazil. An Israeli strike that ignited the conflict. It began with astonishing speed and surprise, taking out Iran's supreme leader and more than 40 other senior leaders in an unprecedented attack in broad daylight.
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So it was a big operation by itself to deceive the Iranians and to make them feel everything is fine. Like every day.
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Israeli Brigadier General Effie defron telling me thousands of Israelis involved in the attack went home the night before the planned assault as part of a deception plan, leaving their cars at home and secretly returning to work in the dead of night.
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If you had a satellite last Friday and you watch Israeli bases and headquarters, you wouldn't notice anything. The parking lots were empty. Everything was quiet. The phone calls were as they were supposed to be. And then it happened. On Saturday morning, Iran's response was swift,
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launching missiles and drones at US Bases and at least a dozen countries in the region. Israel's air defense system intercepting Iranian attacks, but some still getting through, like here in the city of Beit Shemesh, west of Jerusalem. The majority of targets hit here in Israel have been military targets of some kind. But in the opening salvo of these missile strikes, this synagogue was hit. The strike killing nine people, including three children from one family and injuring nearly 50 others. Shmuel Hager was in his nearby home when the missile struck.
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When the explosion hit, like everything else,
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it was big, big boom.
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Our interview interrupted by air raid sirens, now a common occurrence not only in Israel but across the region. The State Department had to scramble to evacuate American tourists, residents and professionals in 14 countries.
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Why wasn't there an evacuation plan?
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Well, because it happened all very quickly. At least 28,000Americans eventually returning to the US on charter flights. But US service members remain at risk. Six US soldiers were killed in a drone strike in Kuwait on the second day of this war. And 10 other U.S. troops across the region severely wounded. The death toll in Iran now more than 1,200, according to the Red Crescent Society. Israel says they have knocked out Iran's air def. This Israeli fighter pilot was able to record his mission over the skies of Iran, where they have targeted nuclear facilities and Iranian missile bases buried deep underground.
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We're destroying more of Iran's missiles and drone capability every single hour, knocking them
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out like nobody thought was possible. Israel says they have now destroyed the majority of Iran's ballistic missile launchers. But General Deferin telling me there are
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many targets remaining, so we hit very hard. Those launches more than 60% in less than five days. It's growing by the day. Every day it's growing the number so they still have them. We are hitting the. We are hunting those launchers and we will do it. Until they will.
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B
When you say hunting, do you know where they all are or you're just looking for them?
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So predominantly what we knew we hit already. Right now they have many more. Some of it we know, some of it we hunt. Some of them we assess, and we have many methods together with our allies to detect those launchers, and we are doing so.
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B
What is the goal here? I mean, when you have these phases in this operation, what is the end here?
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C
The meaning is their nuclear capabilities. We are talking about the missile capabilities. You know, those two elements. The first one we hit back in June, the nuclear project.
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Now, did you obliterate it?
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C
Well, President Trump said we obliterated it. Therefore we did. So this is.
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Did you obliterate it?
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It is damaged severely.
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President Trump demanding unconditional surrender from the Iranians. But it is far from certain. Those who have been fighting for a new regime, those courageous protesters who were slaughtered by Iranian forces, can now overcome those who support. In January, 2020 days after President Trump directed a drone strike that killed Iran's military leader, General Soleimani, we were reporting from the streets of Tehran, where women are required to wear headscarves. The crowds are massive and emotional. There are many tears here, many signs with Soleimani's picture on them. But the message is also very clear. These people want revenge. As we made our way through the streets of Tehran, people surrounding us chanting, death to America. We will have very hard. Reverend of Mr. Trump. Days later, Iran striking Al Assad air base in Iraq, injuring dozens of U.S. military. This war is sending shockwaves around the region, especially in neighboring Iraq, where reports are circulating that Israel and the US have encouraged Iranian opposition groups to revolt. James Longman met a unit of the Peshmerga, Iraqi Kurdish fighters, and longtime US Allies trying to keep the peace on the tense border with Iran.
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Let's stop.
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Let's stop. We were on our way back from the Iraqi border with Iran, and we came across this group of Kurdish fighters. There is nervousness here. They've heard this report that there could be groups preparing to launch a ground attack into Iran, and their job would be to stop it. The reports say that the United States would be helping with this ground attack into Iran. But the United States is a friend of yours, so what side are you on? This commander was careful to say only that he enjoyed American support. He wouldn't be drawn on any other group. Wow, look at this. The Peshmerga have had close ties with the United States for years. They've been a recipient of military equipment for A long time, too. But now they're worried at the possibility of the United States helping to fund and arm another Kurdish group in this region to launch an attack on Iran that will disturb the peace. But overnight, Trump, speaking aboard Air Force One, saying he has ruled out working with the Kurds. They're willing to go in, but we really, I've told them I don't want
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want them to go in.
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Iran is taking that threat seriously. This was the warning the US Embassy in Iraq issued to the Kurdistan region. Hours later, there was an alert issued for our hotel. We've just heard about a threat that might be coming into this hotel from one of Iran's proxy groups in northern Iraq. So we are getting down to the basement right now. And that night, another hotel was targeted. US Oil companies in the south are also now being targeted. The Iranian regime issued this warning. Those drone strikes could be just the beginning.
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Our thanks to James. I'm joined here in Jerusalem by ABC News chief foreign correspondent Ian Panel, who's been on the ground since the beginning of this war. And Ian, we are getting reports today that it is spreading, that the UAE has now fired shots into Iran.
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C
Yes. And that would be the first time another country has joined the US Israeli coalition. How do you measure success? That's a key question here. I think on a tactical level, the military operation has been hugely successful. You have the regime effectively decapitated military. Key military leaders have gone, their missile capability, their nuclear program, both degraded. But on a strategic level, I think that's much harder to evaluate. I think for Israel, the strategic imperative is very clear because Iran represented this threat for Israel, maybe not imminent, but at some point. But I think for the US On a strategic level, it's very much an open question.
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B
And Iran is not a place that gives up easily, as you know, covering so many wars.
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C
Yes. And you've been there plenty of times, Martha. You know, there is a lot of support for the regime. We've seen tens of thousands of people out on the streets. We're not seeing any kind of cracks in the regime at the moment. And I think the hardest thing for all of us and for the American people is how are you going to assess success and when will you know its mission accomplished? We've heard a whole range of reasons for this war, its nuclear program, its ballistic missiles, regime change. Marco Rubio saying it was because Israel was going to act preemptively. Well, which one is it? What are your clear objectives? The president tells us we're winning. How do we know that you're winning. And if we don't know that, how do we know when it ends?
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B
All great questions, Ian, and always great to see you. Thanks.
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C
Thanks.
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B
Let's turn to United States Ambassador to the United Nations, Michael Waltz. Good morning to you, Ambassador. President Trump last night wrote on social media to UK's Prime Minister Keir Starmer concerning rumors that the UK might provide some warships to help the US but he wrote President Trump, that's okay, Prime Minister. We don't need them any longer. We don't need people that join wars after we have already one. Do you believe we've already won this war?
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C
Well, Martha, thank you. And in many ways, we are seeing tremendous success in our military objectives on this war. Iran's Navy is largely sitting at the bottom of the ocean with over 40 ships now sunk. Major degradation to their ability to produce the ballistic missiles that have been striking so many of their Gulf neighbors, Israel and elsewhere. Major degradation to their ability to produce these missiles. We already took down the nuclear enrichment program back during Operation Midnight Hammer last year. Air force largely destroyed. Air defenses largely destroyed. Major leadership figures decapitated. So in terms of our military objectives, the president is right. We are not only ahead of schedule, we are winning.
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B
You are winning. But he said we have already won. What else do you have to do and how long will it take?
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C
Well, look, we'll just let the statistics from our Central Command commander, Admiral Brad Cooper, speak for themselves. We've seen ballistic missile launches from Iran largely degraded the figures that they're putting out, around 90% reduction from the first days of the war a week ago. Drone launches down 70 to 80%. Those are still significant. We're still seeing Iran lash out in all directions at its neighbors, at our allies, Kuwait, Bahrain, uae, Jordan, Saudi Arabia and others. So at the end of the day, what the president is focused on is an Iran that can no longer pose a threat to Americans in an American first foreign policy, but also no longer pose a threat to our allies in the region. And I know a lot of folks are, you know, focused on how this war initiated, but I can tell you as a veteran, I can't, you know, I just can't put my mind around how many Americans have been attacked and killed from Beirut to the Iraq war and to hostages. And, you know, God forbid that we ever have an Iranian regime, this radical cleric led regime that is ideological and fanatical to have their hands on the nuclear button. That is something that, you know, God bless President Trump for taking the action now and not waiting until we have a situation where not only Iran has a nuclear program, but is hiding behind tens of thousands of ballistic missiles and drones so that no one can ever get at it. He took that action. Now, I want to ask you, Mr. Ambassador, but this is, this is an important point. This is ending a 47 year war that Iran began in 1979. That day began under Jimmy Carter. President Trump is taking bold, decisive action to end it and thank God for it.
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B
Talk about regime change. The Iranians are apparently very close to naming a new leader. The Israelis say they will take out any new leader they choose, any new supreme leader. President Trump has talked about regime change, said he wants a say in the next leader. Where does that stand and how do you see that working?
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C
Well, as President Trump just said last night that, you know, he wants to see a leadership in Iran and this is just a kind of a common sense approach here. He wants to see leadership in Iran that no longer threatens the United States or allies in the region that isn't attacking civilian airports, ports, shipping terminals, hotels, and, you know, and lashing out in the way that it is, that can't hold energy supplies hostage in terms of the rest of the world. That, and certainly isn't going to continue to do everything he can, everything that they can to build a nuclear weapon. So it has to be someone that we can deal with. It has to be someone that doesn't threaten Americans, attack Americans and try to attack us and our allies at any given chance. So the President laid out his goals. No nuclear weapons, no long range ballistic missiles, no ongoing support for its terrorist proxies like Hamas, Hezbollah, the Houthis and others. And that, that has to be a regime that, that we can deal with and stops attacking us in the world.
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B
I want to ask you about the Strait of Hormuz. It's effectively closed and the price of gas at home has already risen 14%. What are you going to do to keep the strait open?
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C
Well, the President has laid out a number of measures along with our Energy Secretary, Chris Wright, our Secretary of State Marco Rubio, and our defense, excuse me, our Secretary of War, Pete Hegseth. The Development Finance Corporation led by Ben Black, has laid out a multibillion dollar insurance program for these ships. Our navy is prepared to start escorting, if necessary, pipelines, new pipelines are coming online that will move some of the oil and gas around the Straits of Hormuz. But this is precisely the problem. Iran has been threatening to do this, holding the regime hostage for many, many decades. And we are now eliminating their ability to do so. Whether that is shore to ship missiles where they can attack them, Their fast boats, their mine layers, all of that infrastructure, all of those military threats are now being taken down and destroyed. And again, we need to see an Iran that doesn't attack its neighbors and doesn't hold energy supplies hostage for its radical aims. And I can tell you, Martha, I'm here at the UN and the Gulf Arabs who were not so united in recent months around issues like Yemen or Sudan or others, they are absolutely united now. They are incensed. And I expect that you'll see additional diplomatic and possibly military action from them in the coming days and weeks.
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B
And just a final question here, Mr. Ambassador. I want to talk about the girls school in Iran that was bombed, especially you as a veteran. Iranians say 175 people were killed, mostly young girls. The president last night said in his opinion, based on what he's seen, it was done by Iran. Pete Hegseth said they're still investigating. The New York Times did a meticulous look at that satellite photos. They're not saying the US Would do that on purpose, but they said it appears that the US Is responsible for that bombing. Why did the president say he believes that it's Iran?
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C
Well, I'll leave that to the investigators to determine. We've seen instances like we saw in Gaza, for example, where Hamas immediately blamed the Israelis. The international community jumped on it, and it turned out it was an errant rocket from Hamas. So we've seen those kind of incidences in the past. As Secretary Hegseth said, it's under investigation. I could tell you as a veteran in no uncertain terms, the United States does everything it can to avoid civilian casualties. Sometimes, of course, tragic mistakes occur, unlike what we see from the likes of Hamas, Hezbollah, the Houthis, the Iranian regime who just massacred 30 to 40,000 of its own people, uniformly universally condemned by the countries here at the United Nations. And you know, it's a little rich hearing accusations from the Iranian regime after they literally just machine gunned their own people in the streets after they killed a young lady, Mahsa Amini, an Iranian woman, for daring to wear a hijab and their gross and just disgusting human rights abuses over the decades. All of that is on in the verge of change, we hope. And that's why you're seeing Iranian Americans and Iranians around the world celebrating in the streets that Ayatollah Maini is dead and can no longer massacre his own people.
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B
Okay, thanks for joining us this morning, Mr. Ambassador. We appreciate it.
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All right, thank You.
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B
And joining me now is former chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, Admiral Mike Mullen, who served under Presidents George W. Bush and Barack Obama. Good morning to you, Admiral. From what you have seen, do you believe this war is justified and the objectives clear?
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E
Well, Martha, I think the debate about how we got in, when we got in, why we got in will continue. And I'm much more focused now on the fact that we're in and how can we make it come out? Well, I think the objectives which have initially been somewhat all over the place, have been reduced down to make sure they can never develop a nuclear weapon, make sure we take out their entire missile capability in a way that it can't be rebuilt for a number of years. I thought the chairman Kaine said the other day made a good statement the other day about making sure they can't operate outside their borders. We've eliminated their navy, we've basically eliminated their air force. And then is there a possible way now to limit further objectives to be able to end this thing on positive terms? And I think that's the open question. Certainly the discussion of regime change is very much alive at this point in time.
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B
And about regime change, one of the things the administration said, the president said is he said rise up and take over. This opposition isn't particularly organized. What do they do? And do you see the IRGC laying down their arms?
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E
One of the, one of the data points for me is that often gets overlooked is basically the military IRGC run about 40% of the GDP of that country. And so displacing them from that, I think is an extraordinarily difficult and challenging and time consuming objective specifically. And yes, the supreme leader is dead, but I don't think the regime change that we're talking about is represented just by that because I think the regime is embedded, deep, dedicated and sees this war as a war of survival for Iran. And survival itself is something that sometimes we don't quite get right. They're going to sacrifice everything they've got in order to make sure that they can survive. And I think they'll draw the war out very specifically. So the regime change that needs to happen is deep. And it's also, you know, at a time in the country that it's very vulnerable. But there's a real question as to whether we can generate that. And our track record in Iraq, where we actually chose the leader, in Afghanistan, where we chose the leader, was pretty bad. So it's a very, very difficult undertaking. And you know, and I question whether we can really impact that.
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B
And you brought up Iraq and Afghanistan. What lessons did you take with you from those conflicts that apply today?
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E
Well, I think it's typical almost in any war. Wars expand, objectives change, circumstances come up that you didn't expect. And I worry this has already become a wide regional war. And I worry that without some kind of thoughtful limits on where we're going and how we're going to get there, that it will continue to expand. I mean, it's gone from very local to now involving discussions about Russia's involvement. The president's got a visit with China at the end of this month, which is a huge issue. And China is watching this. So there's an awful lot at play in this war in addition to just the tragedy associated with those that are dying believing this is a bad regiment. We all wish it had gone away a long time ago. I think that's going to be a challenge in the future. But we need to contain them. We've got friends and allies out there. We've got the economy of the world in great part depending on the open waters at the Straits of Hormuz and how markets react to this. You've got a tourism economic livelihood in the region that's actually completely stopped right now. So there's an awful lot in play that we can't anticipate. And certainly that was the case in Iraq and Afghanistan. And I worry about this getting drawn out. These wars just don't end quickly, at least they certainly haven't in the last several decades.
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B
So your biggest concern at this point is not necessarily tactical, it's strategic.
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E
I'm struck, Martha, with I look at the 12 day war and how much of their missile inventory was left. I look at the number of targets that I hear publicly, which is over 4000 targets hit so far, which is an extraordinary number of targets. And yet Iran is still responding. So I don't know how deep their inventory is. I think they want to look as strong as they can. They want to destabilize the region as much as possible. And we will continue, I'm sure, from a military standpoint to be able to take them out. The objective of keeping them operative only inside their borders is a huge objective. But we're a long way down the line of being able to make that happen. It's not the military aspect of this that I'm concerned about. It's the military objectives in support of acceptable political outcome that is obviously very much in play and somewhat uncertain right now.
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B
It seems uncertain indeed. Thanks very much for joining us this morning, Admiral. Coming up, ABC's Matt Rivers reports from Lebanon and a new front in this regional war. We're back in two minutes.
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We're back now in the old city of Jerusalem just a few hours north of us. Israeli troops are back in Lebanon again launching a campaign campaign against Hezbollah, the Iran aligned militia in this war reshaping the Middle East. ABC's Matt Rivers has been right in the thick of it in Beirut.
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C
The war in Iran expanding into Lebanon this week. Massive Israeli airstrikes targeting Beirut suburbs bombarding strongholds for Iranian backed proxy group Hezbollah. So you can see there the explosion right there you can see the explosion and there is the sound. It takes a little bit for the sound to travel. Obviously you see the explosion first, then
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B
the sound reaches us.
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C
That is the latest strike and what has been strike after strike after strike all day long. Lebanese state run media saying 44 people killed overnight as the IDF striking more than a dozen times across the country. Israeli forces issuing evacuation warnings for hundreds of thousands of people in southern Beirut. But humanitarian groups insist there is nowhere safe for people to go. Many who have yet to recover after Israel's invasion of Lebanon in 2024. Israeli operations targeting Hezbollah positions across the country from the east down to the Israeli border. Hezbollah responding firing missiles of its own into Israel late Saturday across Lebanon. More than 300 dead and more than a thousand injured in just a matter of days according to the Lebanese Ministry of Public Health. Martha as the human toll of this conflict continues to go up so many people here in Lebanon are worried that that violence could spiral even further. In fact, many people have asked us when we think this conflict is going to end.
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D
And of course, we don't have a great answer for them.
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C
And neither does it seem, does the US Government.
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B
Martha, our thanks to Matt. With us now in Jerusalem is Michael Oren, the former Israeli ambassador to the United States. It's good to see you, Mr. Ambassador. You said welcome to another war. This is one you clearly support. But do you have concerns at this point?
- [30:43]
D
First of all, always good to be with you, Martha. And yes, it's the latest war and it's actually the continuation of the war that began on October 7, 2023. And there's direct connection between Hamas attack on the southern Israel and what's going on now. And yes, I have concerns because in many ways Iran, the Iranian regime is a lot like Hamas. In order to win, they have only not to lose. And at the end of the day, they really don't care how many casualties line up, what kind of destruction is caused. If they can emerge from the rubble at the end and do a V sign, then they've won. And so it's very difficult. And in order to win this war, the United States and Israel and other allies are going to have to press this campaign perhaps for a long time, unless there is a popular uprising in Iran that will result in a regime change.
- [31:28]
B
And when you say press it for a long time, are we talking months? I mean, how does this go in the long run? In the long road, they have decimated missile sites, missiles, launchers, they have decimated, so they say, these nuclear facilities. But in the long run, what happens? Because you've seen things occur over and
- [31:46]
D
over again, I think that the pressure has to continue on Iran. It may not have to continue at this intensity. For example, if the missile launchers can be eliminated, if the nuclear threat can truly, truly be neutralized, and that includes not just the facilities, but that 400 kilograms, almost 800 pounds of highly enriched uranium which the Iranians have buried underground.
- [32:06]
B
And how do you get your hands on them?
- [32:07]
D
Ooh, somebody can. But I don't think the Iranians are going to get their hands on them. I think that the United States and Israel are going to have to figure out, perhaps with special forces, ways of
- [32:16]
B
getting better that would, I would think, require special forces or somebody going in
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C
on the ground wouldn't rule it out
- [32:22]
D
because the idea was originally that this material would be shipped out to a third country. But apparently the Iranian negotiators refused to do that. Now, keep in mind, as long as you have that 400 kilograms of highly enriched uranium, it only takes a few days to enrich that to missile grade to military grade. And that can be put into warhead or it can even be put into a suitcase.
- [32:41]
B
You know, we talk a lot about forever wars in the U.S. president Trump has said he will not get involved in a forever war. Is this war different or could this also be a forever war?
- [32:53]
D
I think it depends how you. Again, I'm going to sound very picky on here, but it sounds like how you defined it forever and how you define war. I mean, the Cold War was a forever war, too. It doesn't mean you're actually engaged in daily combat intensely as you are now. Again, if you can reduce Iran's ability to shoot at us, to shoot at our neighbors, to shoot at our allies in the region, to conduct terrorist attacks around the world, but you haven't really effected a regime change. You haven't the regime mains in power, then you just maintain the pressure on that. It's not so dissimilar to what's going on in Gaza right now.
- [33:24]
B
Well, let's talk about regime change. The Israelis are saying, going to shoot anybody that the Iranians put in. We're going to kill them. Already killed the supreme leader. So how does that work? And how do you expect the opposition to rise up?
- [33:39]
D
So I'm not a spokesman for this government or the United States for certainly that matter, but it seems to me that any leader who comes up and says, I'm going to continue the campaign to destroy this country, then Israel is duty bound to try to eliminate them. If there's a different leader who comes out and says, listen, I'm going to change the way Iran interacts with its neighbors and the way, the way it looks at the world, the way we see Iran's role in the region and globally, then Israel would have no problem with it.
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B
Do you think that leader exists in Iran right now?
- [34:11]
D
Potentially it's very different with this regime. The regime, the DNA of this regime is jihad. That's what they're about. They're about regional domination and then expanding that domination across the globe. That's who they are. And to say that they're going to give up terror, to say they're going to give up their ballistic missile system is virtually impossible for this regime. It's basically talking about identity suicide for them. So it has to be someone different. It has to come from a different segment of Iranian society, a different segment perhaps of the military. And the IRGC was in many ways created as a watchdog for the Iranian military. They didn't trust their own army. So perhaps somebody from within the armed services could rise up and take over control or somebody from the opposition.
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B
And the opposition itself, it's not organized in ways it doesn't seem that they could really take over and go up against the irgc. So how do you see the opposition organizing at this point? The US Says we've laid the groundwork. The Israelis say we've laid the groundwork. How does that happen?
- [35:11]
D
Well, you know, before I was ambassador, I was a military historian. And I'll tell you that, you know, revolutions are always impossible to concur until they do, in which case they become inevitable. We don't know. We don't know what the tipping point is. We don't know if there are defections. Now the Iranian opposition outside of Iran is now reporting massive defections within the IRGC and within the military. We don't know. And there's going to be, there could be a tipping point at some stage in this campaign where the opposition, which seems disorganized, in fact can make that type of move. And we've seen it happen repeatedly in history. We're now about to celebrate, I think, the 250th anniversary of a time when it actually did happen because the revolution when it started against Great Britain was very unpopular and it was a small group that was able to rise up and gather the type of international support and domestic report to declare America's independence. So there are many examples, not just the American example. That doesn't mean it's going to happen here, but it also doesn't mean it's not going to happen.
- [36:06]
B
Well, we will be keeping our eye on it and on you. Thank you so much for joining us this morning, Mr. Ambassador. Coming up, how war with Iran is shaking the world economy and President Trump standing back home.
- [36:23]
C
ABC Wednesdays, the Emmy winning comedy Scrubs is all new.
- [36:27]
D
This is a whole new chapter for me.
- [36:29]
C
No more sad steps. That's what I'm talking about. I want both of our sacks to be fun. You two idiots are perfect for each other. From executive producers of Ted Lasso and shrinking. We were all a part of this victory. Now get those nachos out of the preemie.
- [36:42]
D
Warmer nachos.
- [36:44]
C
Feels like there's more applause for the
- [36:45]
D
nachos than my speech.
- [36:47]
C
The new season of Scrubs Wednesdays 8, 7 Central on ABC and stream on Hulu. This episode is brought to you by Progressive Insurance. Fiscally responsible financial geniuses, monetary magicians.
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A
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C
I tell you what, I have never
- [37:18]
B
had more compliments on something I did. People felt it's something that had to be done.
- [37:23]
C
So if we have a little high
- [37:25]
B
oil prices for a little while, but
- [37:28]
C
as soon as this ends, those prices are going to drop, I believe lower than even before.
- [37:35]
B
President Trump brushing off concerns about oil prices rising because of the war with Iran. Oil prices are up by more than 35%, the biggest weekly increase on record. Gas prices in the US have already risen 47 cents on average since the war began, according to AAA. Our panel discusses the economic fallout and more when we come back.
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Hi, I'm Jim. I'm not an actor, just a guy
- [38:05]
B
living with prostate cancer.
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E
My wife and I face each day
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head on we asked my doctor about
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C
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- [39:02]
B
It's the Paradise Podcast.
- [39:04]
A
I am your host Ryan Michele Bathe with my husband Sterling.
- [39:08]
E
What's up?
- [39:09]
A
Join us here on Hulu and Hulu on Disney, where we'll discuss each episode with the cast and crew of Paradise. I'll be getting all the secrets from Dan Fogelman, James Marsden, Shailene Woodley, Julianne Nicholson and Sterling Kelby Brown. Paradise, the official podcast, is now streaming and stream paradise on Hulu and Hulu on Disney for bundle subscribers.
- [39:31]
B
Terms apply and I'm joined now by our panel in Washington. New Yorker staff writer Susan Glasser, Atlantic staff writer Anne Applebaum, and ABC News chief White House correspondent Mary Bruce. Mary, I want to start with you. You've heard the explanation from the president and his cabinet about why they started this war, why it will end, and how. But is anything clearer now?
- [39:57]
A
Martha, the explanations from this administration and the president have been absolutely head spinning this week. I mean, I think the clearest explanation from the president is probably the broadest at this point, which is him saying that this was an evil regime and that something had to be done. He said, quote, somebody had to do it. But we have heard vastly different explanations and contradictions about why. Now, what was the imminent threat? The president said it was his opinion, quote, his opinion that Iran was going to strike first. But we have seen no evidence of that. And they have offered wildly different explanations for what comes next. Of course, initially the president said that the change had to come from within. He was encouraging the Iranians to overthrow their government. But now the president says that he has to have a say in who the next leader of Iran is, though it's not clear who that should be. And he is now calling for that, quote, unconditional surrender.
- [40:48]
B
Martha, to Mary's point, Susan, you said in your column that the urgent question is, can we win a war without a clear why we got into it?
- [40:58]
A
Yeah, Martha, I think the history of war suggests the answer to that is it's very, very hard to do objective shift, as Admiral Mullen pointed out. I think that in this particular case, the president seems to want to leave his options open as a way of being able to declare victory because he's outlined so many different possibilities. But, Martha, one thing that really stands out here that's different from previous conflicts of, you know, recent years is that the American people start out the conflict not really supporting President Trump. According to the polls. That is a really tough position for a commander in chief to be in, especially with oil prices growing by the day and other consequences that may change the timeline for President Trump as well.
- [41:44]
B
And let's talk about choosing the supreme leader that he wants a voice in that, as Mary pointed out. How would that really work? I don't see that it can really work. Iran is a country of 90 million people. It's had there have been multiple democracy protests. There have been multiple eras when leaders have emerged. Most of them have been jailed or exiled or arrested or even killed. But if Iran is to be at peace, if it's to be part of a peaceful future Middle east, then the Iranians need to have their own say over who leads them. There needs to be self determination and there needs to be a pluralistic government that includes a lot of different kinds of Iranians. And if we don't have that, there is a terrible risk of civil war which could have consequences for us and for all of our, all of our partners in the Middle East. Mary, the president doesn't seem concerned about that. He said last night we've already won the war. But back to Susan's point about the polling, are they not concerned about that?
- [42:49]
A
Well, Martha, I think no surprise here. Officials I talked to are quick to dismiss the polling, but they certainly are well aware of the pushback. I mean, as Susan noted, he is taking a country to war without their backing. And that is a huge risk, especially for a president who promised to stop wars and to not start them. There was no big campaign to message this and to rally support ahead of this military operation. And certainly the mixed messagings that we have been receiving all week aren't helping the situation. I think what does seem to be causing some concern, certainly though not publicly from the White House, are the cracks that we are seeing from the president's longtime supporters. I mean, some real leaders in the MAGA movement are now raising serious questions about this operation. And of course, Martha, we know that what voters want is for the president to be focused on the economy and domestic issues, especially as we barrel toward the midterms.
- [43:43]
B
Susan, as we look at this, there are comparisons being made to invasion of Iraq.
- [43:49]
A
You know, Martha, let's hope the answer is no to that because we all covered that conflict and we know that what started out as a short victorious war and George W. Bush's mission accomplished moment, just a short period into the conflict, was actually only a beginning of a years long disaster, really, not only for the United States in the region, but of course for the people of Iraq. And I'm struck by the fact that they've already changed the timeframe here. And there's been a clip that's been going around this week of Secretary Donald Rumsfeld at the beginning before the Iraq war, saying, well, maybe it will last for six days, maybe it will be six weeks, but it definitely won't be six months. And you know, I think history is something to look to here as a guide for how this war might go on in ways we don't expect at the moment.
- [44:40]
B
Anne, what are your thoughts about that in these comparisons, in these forever wars? I read a column the other day, Mark Thiessen, saying we are not starting a forever war. We're ending a forever war. Does he have a point? I think the trouble is that when you start a conflict, you don't know what the longer term implications are. For example, today we see that the Americans and the Israelis have been bombing the Iranian oil industry. That will raise oil prices. There will be echoes of that all over the world. That could also create other kinds of conflicts, economic crises in our country or in other countries. And so you set off a chain of events that you can't control. And I would also say, you know, whatever happens at the end of this week or at the end of next month or at the end of six months from now, that doesn't mean that the war is over or the, you know, we've concluded some kind of action and then we'll move on to the next phase. What we've done in these days will continue to echo over many months in Iran, in the Middle east and in the rest of the world. Mary, we just have about a minute left here. But before we go, I want to touch on President Trump firing Kristi Noem and the reverberations from that.
- [45:53]
A
Yeah, the first big shakeup of his cabinet. Martha. It is a notable change from his first term and the second term. So far, we haven't seen this constant revolving door. The president had stood by her for months despite a string of controversies. He was also often citing, you know, her work at the border, fulfilling his promises there. But it seemed that she was garnering too much negative attention for the administration and especially its immigration crackdown. That glitzy $220 million ad campaign that she featured in heavily seemed to be the last straw. Sources telling us that she was fired because of her many unfortunate leadership failures. Though, of course, in classic Trump fashion, she's not been completely fired from the administration. She's just been reassigned to this newly created position. Martha. And Mark Wayne Mullen at the end of the month will now take over as the DHS secretary. A longtime loyal supporter of the president, he is someone who has shown on the Hill that he is willing to do what the president wants and needs.
- [46:49]
B
And, of course, Tom Holman will remain as well. I want to thank all of you this morning for your excellent commentary. Thanks to our panel. We'll be right back to remember those six service members who lost their lives in the very early parts of this war. We'll be right back. President Trump at Dover Air Force Base Saturday for the dignified transfer of the remains of the six American soldiers killed in this war. All six served in the Army Reserve Command tasked with supplying and supporting troops deployed for Operation Epic Fury. They were also mothers, fathers, husbands and brothers. We take a look at the lives and legacies they leave behind. The six soldiers were together at a tactical operations center in Kuwait with little protection from an aerial assault when an Iranian drone struck them. The youngest, Sergeant Declan Cody, a 20 year old college student studying computer science at Drake University in Iowa. His older sister Kira, remembering his kindness. I just wish he got to know one more time that we all loved him because he was so amazing and kind.
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D
He was just like the best little
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B
brother you could have. Sergeant First Class Nicola Moore was days away from the end of her deployment, set to return to her 18 year old son and 9 year old daughter in Minnesota. Her brother Derek telling the New York Times she was preparing to leave the military. She had a yearning for her family. She just missed them, he said. From a young age, Captain Cody Cork felt a calling to serve his country. The 35 year old lived with purpose, loved deeply and served honorably.
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C
He was very, very smart at computer technology.
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B
Childhood friend Chase Smith remembering Cody he
- [48:43]
E
was more than a friend, he was a brother.
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B
42 year old Sergeant First Class Noah Teachens, a husband and father, had only three months left on his third deployment to Kuwait.
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C
He took me under his wing.
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B
John Coleman was one of many soldiers he had mentored.
- [48:59]
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You could call him day or night, he always took the time. You know he made you feel important.
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Those qualities on full display back home in Nebraska where Tietz was honored at the studio where he taught martial arts. Also killed 45 year old Major Jeffrey O' Brien of Iowa. Serving since 2012 as a reservist and Signal Corps officer stateside, he worked in cybersecurity. In the office he was admired not only for his skill in leadership, but also for his compassion toward new team members, his uplifting humor during challenging times and his calm guidance in high pressure situations. And 54 year old Chief Warrant Officer 3 Robert Marzin of California, whose sister posted a touching tribute to her younger brother, calling him a strong leader who lived by example and her hero. We send our condolences to all of those families and to Those of the 10 others in this war who have been severely injured. That's all for us today from Jerusalem. Thanks for sharing part of your Sunday with us and be sure to check out World News Tonight and have a great day.
- [50:14]
A
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