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- [00:01]
Narrator/Reporter
In the suburbs of D.C. a woman fails to show up for work and is found brutally murdered.
- [00:06]
Host/Martha Raddatz
Nine, one, one, which emergency?
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Caller/Interviewee
We just walked in the door and there's blood in the foyer.
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Narrator/Reporter
For the next two decades, the case remained unsolved until new technology allowed investigators to do what had once been impossible. A new series from ABC Audio in 2020, blood and water. Listen now wherever you get your podcasts.
- [00:30]
Host/Martha Raddatz
Gas prices soar as President Trump weighs his next moves on Iran. With just six months until voters head to the polls, this week starts right now. Two months of war.
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Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth
They want to make a deal, but I don't. I'm not satisfied with it.
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Host/Martha Raddatz
With the US And Iran at a stalemate, the economic pain intensifies.
- [00:50]
Guest/Interviewee (various, possibly civilians or experts)
Having to choose between gas and food. And that's a very hard decision.
- [00:55]
Host/Martha Raddatz
As Americans disapproved of Trump's performance hits a new high this morning. Results from our brand new poll. And Transportation Secretary Sean Duffy on the war's growing fallout and Spirit Airlines shutdown heated testimony.
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Former GOP Congressman Patrick McHenry
We are two months into a historic military success in Iran and you want
- [01:18]
Guest/Interviewee (various, possibly civilians or experts)
to call it a defeat.
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Host/Martha Raddatz
Lawmakers challenge the administration on what comes next after 60 days of war. I'll speak with top Senate Armed Services Democrat Jack Reid. Monumental ruling.
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Guest/Interviewee (various, possibly civilians or experts)
This is one huge step backwards for
- [01:36]
Chris Christie
racial justice and for the health of our democracy.
- [01:40]
Host/Martha Raddatz
The Supreme Court deals a blow to the Voting Rights Act. A roundtable on states racing to redraw maps ahead of the midterms. Plus a major new ruling limiting access to an abortion pill.
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Chris Christie
From ABC News, it's THIS Week.
- [01:59]
Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth
Hear now.
- [02:00]
Guest/Interviewee (various, possibly civilians or experts)
Martha Ratt,
- [02:02]
Host/Martha Raddatz
Good morning and welcome to THIS week. Today marks six months until November's midterm election Day. And we're now entering week 10 of the Iran war, which is twice as long as the president initially said the war would last. And this morning, both the economic and political fallout from that war is deepening. Our brand new ABC News Washington Post Ipsos poll showing Americans expressing growing concern about President Trump's job performance and his handling of key issues. A majority of Americans disapprove of how Trump is handling every issue we measured, from the cost of living to inflation to the war with Iran to the overall economy. And the president's job approval rating dipping to 37% near the lows of his first term, with his disapproval now standing at 62%, a record high. Democrats don't fare much better on handling key issues. But while they're not running away with the midterms at this point, our poll shows independents prefer Democratic candidates for the House by A wide margin a potential warning sign for Republicans. We'll discuss the Iran war's impact on oil and gas prices with Transportation Secretary Sean Duffy in a moment. And we'll hear from him on how the federal government is responding to this weekend's shutdown of budget carrier Spirit Airlines. But we begin with ABC's Elizabeth Schulze on the war's widening economic fallout this morning.
- [03:36]
Narrator/Reporter
Oil prices soaring, sitting near four year highs as Americans grapple with the consequences of President Trump's Middle east military operation.
- [03:44]
Guest/Interviewee (various, possibly civilians or experts)
Here at home, I have to work,
- [03:46]
Caller/Interviewee
I have to drive.
- [03:47]
Guest/Interviewee (various, possibly civilians or experts)
But it's not very sustainable.
- [03:50]
Narrator/Reporter
The average price of a gallon of gas surging to $4.45, up 40 cents in one week and up $1.51 since the war began. The cost to fill up a mid sized SUV, now $27 more expensive than before the war. Wandi Teruna is a taxi driver here in D.C. trying to fill up his tank only when necessary and shop around for the best price.
- [04:12]
Guest/Interviewee (various, possibly civilians or experts)
When my customer took me somewhere, if
- [04:14]
Host/Martha Raddatz
I see a cheaper one, I will get Phillips here.
- [04:17]
Narrator/Reporter
Prices even higher in west coast states like California with averages above $60 a gallon.
- [04:22]
Sarah Isgur
Kind of shocking at this point how
- [04:25]
Host/Martha Raddatz
much we're paying for this.
- [04:26]
Narrator/Reporter
And in the Midwest, in Indiana, Michigan and Ohio, prices spiked around a dollar in just a week.
- [04:32]
Former GOP Congressman Patrick McHenry
It couldn't come at a worse time for consumers who are gearing up for the summer travel season.
- [04:37]
Narrator/Reporter
President Trump insists oil and gas will drop as soon as the war ends.
- [04:41]
Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth
I thought oil would be much, much higher than it turned out to be. I mean, it's not low. It's certainly not low. It's going to come crashing down as soon as this war is over.
- [04:51]
Narrator/Reporter
But in our new ABC News Washington Post Ipsos poll, 50% of Americans say they expect gas prices will get worse over the next year. Only 21% think they'll get better. And 15% expect them to stay the same elevated cost as they are now. Moody's analytics says if oil stays at its current price for a year, the typical household will pay an extra $1,300 in gas and diesel costs. 40% of Americans now say they're worse off financially than when Trump took office, compared to just 17% who say they're better off. Americans now forced to make trade offs, with 44% saying they've cut back on driving because of higher gas prices. 42% say they've dialed back on other household expenses.
- [05:34]
Former GOP Congressman Patrick McHenry
I cut down on groceries a little
- [05:36]
Guest/Interviewee (various, possibly civilians or experts)
bit because gas is just more of an expense now.
- [05:38]
Former GOP Congressman Patrick McHenry
I used to not think about it.
- [05:39]
Narrator/Reporter
The ripple effects of the war reaching far beyond gas. Jet fuel costs have roughly doubled. The final blow this week to beleaguered budget air carrier Spirit Airlines as it shut down Saturday morning. And diesel gas, the lifeblood of American business that keeps trucks, tractors and trains running, is approaching record highs. Oil can affect the price you pay when you go out to eat, too.
- [06:02]
Guest/Interviewee (various, possibly civilians or experts)
No question about it.
- [06:03]
Narrator/Reporter
Threatening to send food prices even higher at grocery stores and restaurants like Ted's Bulletin in Arlington, Virginia, where owner Steve Salas says the cost to get his food delivered has skyrocketed.
- [06:14]
Transportation Secretary Sean Duffy
It's many tens of thousands of dollars at this point.
- [06:16]
Narrator/Reporter
You know, tens of thousands extra extra fuel over the last eight, nine weeks.
- [06:20]
Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth
Yes, absolutely.
- [06:22]
Narrator/Reporter
And Martha, oil analysts say even if the strait reopened tomorrow, it could take months to get all of that gridlock supply back online and more than a year for gas to go back to its pre war level. Martha.
- [06:34]
Host/Martha Raddatz
And our thanks to Elizabeth. So let's get right to our experts on the war's economic toll, Karen Young of the Columbia University center on Global Energy, who's also a senior fellow at the Middle East Institute, and Diane Swonk, the chief economist and managing director at accounting firm kpmg. Karen, let's start with you right now. President Trump had predicted weeks ago that gas prices, which he said weren't high at $4 a gallon, were coming down. That certainly has not happened. They're an average of $4.45 this morning. Why the surge this week?
- [07:12]
Karen Young
Well, they're probably going to keep going up as well. Right. So the surge is happening probably because we're getting into this nine weeks of the crisis. We've drawn down now of all the supplies that we' market have arrived. Now we're dipping into inventories. And so there's a realization that there are, you know, there are shortages, particularly of refined products. And what was first impacted, particularly in Southeast Asia, is now equally affecting the United States. So as a proportion of price increase, gasoline has risen about 37% in Southeast Asia, about 42% in the United States. So we are feeling this as, you know, an impact, a crunch equally or more than the most affected countries that first felt it in the East.
- [07:59]
Host/Martha Raddatz
Boy, we are feeling it for sure. And Diane, President Trump had also said gas prices will drop like a rock when the Iran war ends. There's no sign that that's going to happen soon. Transportation Secretary Sean Duffy, our next guest, a few weeks ago thought there would be a very quick rebound in energy prices once the conflict is resolved. Do you agree with?
- [08:22]
Diane Swonk
Well, what we usually see is when oil prices go up and gas prices at the pump go up, they go up like a rocket and they fall like a feather. And I think that's one of the issues we have to deal with. And what's so important is this is more than an oil shock. It is a supply chain shock. It is disrupting supply chains the world over, much like we saw during the pandemic, although without the buffers. And so we're going to see over the course of the year many of these effects cascading compound and that push inflation up even higher. The biggest issue for consumers is not just the mobility and they're not traveling as much with higher gas prices today, but also it gets into food prices at the grocery store and farmers are already complaining because of course, they rely on diesel, but importantly fertilizers and the chemicals that go into all of our food products out there and then the transportation costs on top of it. This is something that's very hard on consumers. And those are some of the most important and we call salient prices for consumers. It's of the basics, food, travel and shelter. Those are the things that really matter to the average household.
- [09:36]
Host/Martha Raddatz
And Diane, do you think it could go even higher, breaking records, which I think were $5.03 a gallon, just talking there about gas prices from where we
- [09:46]
Diane Swonk
are today, I would agree with Karen. They're going to go higher and we could easily break those records. And we don't have the buffers we once did. Fiscal stimulus helped to buoy spending in the first quarter. We saw a good solid first quarter at 2%. But remember, the economic gains that we're seeing are concentrated among fewer affluent households and fewer firms than we did in the past. That was the case in 2025, and it is the case again today, even with the increase in tax refunds. And as we get into the year, you're going to see out there across the board. And that's what we're really concerned about for U.S. consumers.
- [10:28]
Host/Martha Raddatz
And Karen, one big question, of course, is if the strait opened today or a day in the future, how long does it take to recover from that? What would we see? How long? And given the mines in the strait.
- [10:43]
Karen Young
Yeah. I mean, there is no easy fix to this problem. So the problem first is getting ships who agree and, you know, their insurers to come into the strait to load. We're going to have to refill from storage. We've had shut ins in Iraq and Kuwait. Now in Iran, those ships will load, then you'll be able to restart wells, restart refineries. So this could be three to four months. That's what Kuwait petroleum executives have said. And then you've got to increase the actual flow of traffic. So it's not going to be 120 vessels, which was our normal before February 28th on day one. That will take a lot of time. And then, of course, if it's not safe, if there are mines in the water, if there are still ongoing threats of hostilities, not even just, you know, active conflict, but if Iran holds that sort of leverage and threat to shipping and to its neighbors, you're not going to see resumption of normal traffic.
- [11:39]
Host/Martha Raddatz
And thanks very much to both of you this morning. We appreciate your expertise.
- [11:44]
Karen Young
Thank you.
- [11:45]
Host/Martha Raddatz
And I'm joined now by Transportation Secretary Sean Duffy. Good morning to you, Secretary Duffy. We just heard our experts say gas prices could break record highs. And even if the strait opened today, it would take months to recover and for those gas prices to go down. What is your reaction?
- [12:05]
Transportation Secretary Sean Duffy
Well, a couple things. I'll tell you that every time I go into the Oval Office, I hear the president talk about energy prices. That's been going on since he took this second term in Washington. He's been concerned about American energy dominance, making sure Americans produce more. We drive energy prices down. But he's also confronted with the idea that could there be a nuclear Iran? And he understands the threat of that reality. Iran's been the most destabilizing force in the world for 40 years. He sees that as untenable. And I would agree with him, we can't have a nuclear Iran. And so he's taking action, bold action. And again, he's going to make sure that the world and America is safer as we look forward, not just in the several months after this conflict, but in the several years and decades after he's out of the presidency.
- [12:54]
Host/Martha Raddatz
So that clearly seems the most important thing to President Trump. But meanwhile, back to those gas prices. Do you agree it could take months even if the strait opened today, and that those gas prices might break record highs?
- [13:09]
Transportation Secretary Sean Duffy
Well, listen, so I'm at dot. I'm not in the energy sector, but from all the briefings I've had, once the strait opens, you'll see prices come down, come down immediately. And again, there's going to be a tail to that. It's going to take time to get back to where we were before this conflict began. But you're going to see, I think, immediate relief once the strait opens.
- [13:30]
Host/Martha Raddatz
Immediate relief. Okay. President Trump said Friday that he is dying to make a deal with Iran. You mentioned Iran, of course, I know you're at the dot, but this is a big issue, clearly, and what kind of offer he has gotten from the Iranians. Do you know anything about this and why the President would say they have not yet paid a big enough price? What does that mean exactly?
- [13:52]
Transportation Secretary Sean Duffy
Yeah, listen. So the president has done very well in his career as a builder and as a president and he doesn't talk publicly about, you know, what those negotiations are, doesn't necessarily say and front run what he's going to want. I think we have to let this play out. But the President's going to look for a good deal, a great deal for the world and for America with the Iranians. But I think it's untenable to think that the Iranians have a nuclear weapon and they're going to have to open the straits. And again, the President is going to negotiate that out. And I think in the end America is going to benefit.
- [14:28]
Host/Martha Raddatz
One of the things the President said early on is that the war would be over in about four to six weeks. I also want you to listen to Energy Secretary Chris Wright, who told me in this program what he told me back in March when I asked him how long Americans should expect high gas prices.
- [14:44]
Guest/Interviewee (various, possibly civilians or experts)
I think that this conflict will certainly come to the end in the next few weeks.
- [14:48]
Host/Martha Raddatz
Could be sooner than that, but the
- [14:49]
Transportation Secretary Sean Duffy
conflict will come to the end in the next few weeks and we'll see
- [14:52]
Guest/Interviewee (various, possibly civilians or experts)
a rebound in supplies and a pushing down of prices after that.
- [14:57]
Host/Martha Raddatz
That was seven weeks ago. You said essentially the same thing about a week later, saying it would be short lived. In your view, why didn't that happen?
- [15:07]
Transportation Secretary Sean Duffy
Well, I think if you listen to Secretary Hegseth and Raisin Cain, our general who's orchestrating this war militarily, they've been wildly successful. The President's been successful in executing the military operation again. We're now navigating, you know, the safety through the Strait of Hormuz and also trying to navigate the, the nuclear material that Iran has. And that's taking a little bit longer. And that's going to play out over the next several weeks. But per Chris Wright's point, you're going to start to see immediate relief once the strait opens and supply flows again. We are going to be in a way better place. I will say this, Martha. It's important for Americans to understand we have a tremendous amount of energy in America. And so yes, it is priced globally, oil and gas is. But in America, we're not going to have supply shortages because we produce so much here. And that is a net benefit to the US as we look at, for me, jet fuel prices or even the supply chain for energy at the pump for American citizens. We have deep supply here. And I think that's, that can't be forgotten because President Trump has focused on American energy and American energy dominance.
- [16:23]
Host/Martha Raddatz
Mr. Secretary, I know you're feeling optimistic about this, but Americans are apparently not. Our new poll makes clear they feel generally bleak about their financial situation. Again, 44% cut back on driving. 42% cut household expenses. 34% changed vacation plans. The rise in gas prices is having a real effect. So what would you say to those Americans, we see no end in sight yet of that war?
- [16:50]
Transportation Secretary Sean Duffy
Well, listen, that point is why the president has focused so hard on energy prices, pricing and American energy dominance. The last administration, as you're well aware, was trying to move Americans from oil and gas to electric vehicles. Americans didn't want it. So the president has leaned into American energy dominance. And yes, we have seen an increase in pricing. But if you look at what the president has done for consumers, one big beautiful bill. He wanted to make sure that Americans got a big tax refund this tax season. Not sure if that was in your poll. I didn't get a chance to look at it before I came on. But Americans were happy with how much they got back because he said, listen, we're not going to tax tips, we're not going to tax Social Security.
- [17:32]
Host/Martha Raddatz
But Mr. Secretary, what I'm talking about is taxes. I'm talking about now.
- [17:37]
Transportation Secretary Sean Duffy
They're pocketbooks.
- [17:38]
Host/Martha Raddatz
I'm talking about now. What is your message to Americans now who are suffering because of these gas prices?
- [17:44]
Transportation Secretary Sean Duffy
Well, Martha, I am talking about right now. We just went through tax season and I'm talking about what happened with people's refunds as they've gone through tax season.
- [17:51]
Host/Martha Raddatz
Well, clearly they're not feeling.
- [17:53]
Transportation Secretary Sean Duffy
Prices have, well, energy prices have come up. You're right. And again, you have to look at the president to say, what does a leader do? What does a president do when he sees a potential nuclear Iran? He's not going to tolerate it. And we can't have that. When they have long range missiles that can deliver those nuclear weapons to many of our friends and to many of our bases. That is untenable. And it's been a problem for, and you've reported on this for decades. It's been a problem. This is the first president who said no more, no longer. We're not going to have a nuclear Iran. So he's leaned into that. And I think if you ask that question specifically, Americans applaud him for taking on this threat. And I'm proud of our president as well. And again, we're going to get back to lower energy prices. When the strait opens up, those prices come down and Americans travel. And I think our economy is going to be set up for something that we haven't seen before in regard to American wealth and American opportunity.
- [18:57]
Host/Martha Raddatz
And Mr. Secretary, just finally on Spirit Airlines, they ceased operating over the weekend. You have said that the war was not an impetus in putting Spirit out of business because they filed Chapter 11 bankruptcy last summer. But the Spirit CEO said in his statement that the sudden and sustained rise in fuel prices ultimately left them with no alternative. Quickly, if you can.
- [19:20]
Transportation Secretary Sean Duffy
Sure. So Spirit tried to merge with JetBlue, the Joe Biden, Pete Buttigieg administration and DOJ tanked that deal. Immediately after that, they filed for bankruptcy. They were having financial problems, Martha. They filed for bankruptcy again last year. They were bleeding money. And so this was in their works for some time. They were going to have to liquidate. And so, again, I'm proud of the American Airlines that have stepped up to take care of the passengers of Spirit, making sure they can get home. The employees of Spirit have special access to apply for jobs with other American airlines. So, again, I've stepped in, worked with the CEOs, and again, this could have been chaotic. And under this administration, President Trump's leadership, there isn't chaos. There is actually a unified American approach to helping passengers and employees of Spirit navigate this crisis.
- [20:12]
Caller/Interviewee
Okay.
- [20:12]
Host/Martha Raddatz
We appreciate your time this morning, Mr. Secretary. Thank you so much.
- [20:15]
Transportation Secretary Sean Duffy
Thanks, Martha.
- [20:17]
Host/Martha Raddatz
Up next, after Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth's heated testimony to Congress on the Iran war, I'll speak with the top Democrat on the Armed Services Committee, Senator Jack Reid. We're back in two minutes.
- [20:32]
Sponsor/Announcer
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- [21:38]
Guest/Interviewee (various, possibly civilians or experts)
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- [22:09]
Host/Martha Raddatz
week, defense Secretary Pete Hegseth, or as he refers to himself, the Secretary of War, made his first major public appearances before Congress since the war in Iran began two months ago, testifying alongside his chairman of the Joint Chiefs, General Dan Kaine. Those hearings before the House and Senate Armed Services Committee proving contentious and heated, and Hegseth himself combative, defensive and dismissive.
- [22:36]
Former GOP Congressman Patrick McHenry
The biggest challenge, the biggest adversary we face at this point are the reckless, feckless and defeatist words of congressional Democrats and some Republicans. Do you think we're winning militarily on the battlefield? It's been an astounding military success. But are we winning the war? Absolutely.
- [22:55]
Guest/Interviewee (various, possibly civilians or experts)
Okay, so do you call Iran closing
- [22:57]
Caller/Interviewee
the Strait of Hormuz winning?
- [22:59]
Former GOP Congressman Patrick McHenry
Well, I would say the blockade that we hold that doesn't allow anything to come in or out of Iranian ports.
- [23:04]
Transportation Secretary Sean Duffy
Okay, so always.
- [23:05]
Guest/Interviewee (various, possibly civilians or experts)
So we blockaded their blockade. So they blockaded us and then we blockaded their blockade. That's like, like saying tag, you're it.
- [23:13]
Former GOP Congressman Patrick McHenry
Well, their nuclear facilities have been obliterated underground. They're buried and watching 24 7. So we know where any nuclear material.
- [23:21]
Guest/Interviewee (various, possibly civilians or experts)
Reclaiming my time.
- [23:22]
Former GOP Congressman Patrick McHenry
We're watching a second here. We had to start this war, you
- [23:26]
Guest/Interviewee (various, possibly civilians or experts)
just said 60 days ago because the
- [23:30]
Former GOP Congressman Patrick McHenry
nuclear weapon was an imminent threat. Now you're saying that it was completely obliterated, not given up their nuclear ambitions. Is the president intending to either seek congressional authorization for the war in Iran or send us the legally required certification that he needs an additional 30 days to remove US forces from the war. I would defer to the White House and White House counsel on that. However, we are in a ceasefire right now, which our understanding means the 60 day clock pauses or stops in a ceasefire. So you're not in.
- [24:04]
Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth
That's.
- [24:04]
Former GOP Congressman Patrick McHenry
It's our understanding, just so you know. Okay, well, I do not believe the statute would support that.
- [24:09]
Narrator/Reporter
You don't care whether the American people.
- [24:12]
Former GOP Congressman Patrick McHenry
The American people are quite smart. They understand and see through spin. They know that a regime that says death to America, that seeks nuclear weapons and the ability to deliver, did they lie about the range of their missiles.
- [24:23]
Caller/Interviewee
So you have not achieved any of the objectives yet that, as the President
- [24:27]
Former GOP Congressman Patrick McHenry
mentioned, President Trump saw an opportunity because their ambitions continued to ensure that that umbrella of nuclear blackmail did not allow them to get to a nuclear weapon and the world is safer because of his bold and historic choice.
- [24:41]
Caller/Interviewee
Mr. Secretary, I think that's rhetorical, but not factual. Thank you.
- [24:46]
Host/Martha Raddatz
And the man you saw right there, the top Democrat on the Senate Armed Services Committee, Senator Jack Reid, joins me now. That was quite a hearing, Senator. But let's talk about your views. Regardless of your views about the constitutionality of this war, it has been a tactical success, and in many ways, they took out the Navy, the majority of missiles, senior regime leaders. But you have said that Hegseth has dangerously exaggerated military successes. What are you talking about?
- [25:18]
Caller/Interviewee
Well, the success is not measured simply in tactical operations. I must commend the men and women of our armed services. They've done a superb job, but strategically, we're in, in many respects, a much worse position. The Strait of Hormuz is blockaded. We're seeing incredible impacts economically in the United States and oil prices, fertilizer prices. The world itself is shuddering under some of these economic blows. And the regime in Tehran is probably more hostile and fanatical than the one that we replaced. And finally, we have not yet resolved the issue of nuclear material in Iran. So this has been a tactical demonstration of prowess, but has not achieved the strategic goals that the President announced. And he seems not to have a plan to achieve those goals.
- [26:17]
Host/Martha Raddatz
He said on Thursday after he was briefed, he talked about military options. He said he'd prefer not to blast the hell out of Iran and finish them forever. But he's also said, and this was just last night, that the Iranians have not paid a big enough price. Do you have any idea where we go from here or what he is talking about?
- [26:42]
Caller/Interviewee
Well, frankly, I'm sometimes confused and I don't know sometimes what he is talking about because again, he announced this is going to be regime change, we'd won in two days, etc. What faces us is a stalemate militarily, which he could, or inject additional air assault against the Iranians. But I don't think that's going to break their determination just to hang on. And one reason is for them it's existential. I mean, after we started this operation with the Israelis by decapitating all their leadership, after the President has made claims of, you know, obliterating a civilization, I think they're just sitting there saying we have only one option, keep fighting. And if that's the case, then we have to get off that track, get into negotiations. And that means putting together a skilled team of negotiators, not your son in law and your golfing buddy. And it means time, because it took us two years to reach a settlement with respect to the President Obama's agreement. It'll take a long time to get that settlement through. And we have to focus, I think right now on diplomacy.
- [28:03]
Host/Martha Raddatz
You, your colleague on the Armed Services Committee, Richard Blumenthal, said on Thursday that he had the impression from briefings that an imminent military strike is very much on the table. One that could put America's sons and daughters in harm's way and have the potential for mass casualties. Have you heard the same? Do you believe a new round of strikes is imminent?
- [28:25]
Caller/Interviewee
Well, they're certainly positioned for strikes. That's what a military force has to be. Again, one of the things that's so confounding in this whole situation is I don't believe the President has a plan. I think it's impulsive. It's day to day. It's how he feels and he's not being given, I think, the support and the planning that is necessary to make judicious judgments. So this is like a minute to minute, whatever in President's head at the time, and that's not a pathway to success.
- [29:01]
Host/Martha Raddatz
Secretary Hegseth told your committee that the administration doesn't need congressional authorization to continue the war past 60 days because the clock pauses because of the ceasefire. President Trump has essentially said the same. Do you agree with that?
- [29:17]
Caller/Interviewee
No, no. The language of the statutes is, does not provide for timeouts like in a football game. From the day you begin 60 days, the president has to comply with the law. There can be a 30 day extension to 90 days, but that has to be requested by the President. We have to be notified no such notifications come through. The President's ignoring the law he does that constantly. This is not the first example where he just completely ignores the law and we have to keep the pressure on. In contrast to President Trump, at least President Bush came before the United States Congress and asked for authority to conduct operations in Iraq. Now, I disagree with that. I thought it was going to be a disastrous situation. But nevertheless, he provided Congress the opportunity to opine and decide and gave him legitimacy that this president lacks.
- [30:20]
Host/Martha Raddatz
You know, we've heard again and again the administration say that Iran wants a nuclear weapon. And a lot of people are saying that. Indeed. But they also say the Iranians would use that nuclear weapon. Do you think Iran would actually use a nuclear weapon if they got it? Is there any evidence they want to use it?
- [30:42]
Caller/Interviewee
Well, I don't want to have to be in a position where they have one and they're contemplating the use. But here's one of the ironies. After this attack and we were negotiating with the Iranians at the time of the attack. And, and I think they feel that their only defense might be a nuclear weapon. So we've ironically, I think, given them more reasons to push for a nuclear weapon. We have to prevent that. We have to prevent proliferation throughout the world. And in fact, what we're seeing with his disputes with NATO, his disputes with other allies is that there's discussion for the first time, serious discussion across the world in places that were under our nuclear umbrella. Let's get a nuclear weapon. He's thought of a dangerous, dangerous trend. But we have to, and I think you accomplish it through negotiations ultimately, as we did with President Obama, to stop their production and have intensive supervision by international authorities so that they can't break out. And if they do, then we have to take action.
- [31:53]
Host/Martha Raddatz
Okay, thanks so very much for joining us this morning, Senator.
- [31:56]
Caller/Interviewee
Thank you.
- [31:57]
Host/Martha Raddatz
Up next, could the Supreme Court's ruling on the Voting Rights act up and the midterm map. We'll break it down when we come back.
- [32:09]
Guest/Interviewee (various, possibly civilians or experts)
I think this whole race baiting race issue on the redistricting has been put to bed finally once and for all.
- [32:19]
Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth
What it says is that, is that,
- [32:21]
Guest/Interviewee (various, possibly civilians or experts)
listen, the legislature and the people control the pen.
- [32:25]
Chris Christie
This is a Supreme Court that is going vastly against this idea that one person should have one vote, that there should be equal representation, that we should be against discrimination.
- [32:37]
Host/Martha Raddatz
It's a sad day reaction there to that major Supreme Court ruling this week that has unleashed a new round of mid decade redistricting after the justices narrowed Section 2 of the 1965 Voting Rights Act Act. That ruling effectively preventing states from considering race when drawing congressional maps. Several Southern states may now move to eliminate majority black districts. Just six months before the midterms, Louisiana's governor delayed its US House primaries after some voting had already begun. The governors of Tennessee and Alabama called for special legislative sessions to review their maps. These developments follow a slew of other changes to maps made in the last year. The mid decade redistricting battle kicked off in Texas after President Trump asked Republicans to create five more GOP leaning seats. California Democrats responded with voters approving a map that will likely net the party five more seats in November. Eight states have approved new maps so far, with several more now looking to do so before November. But none of the seats that either party is targeting are guaranteed, and the Roundtable's all here to discuss that and much more when we come back in a moment.
- [34:04]
Diane Swonk
No.
- [34:05]
Guest/Interviewee (various, possibly civilians or experts)
Oh no.
- [34:06]
Sarah Isgur
Welcome to Get Real.
- [34:08]
Narrator/Reporter
I Got Something to say.
- [34:09]
Sarah Isgur
A weekly talk show for the reality TV obsessed.
- [34:12]
Host/Martha Raddatz
Oh my God, it's gotta be deliciously desperate.
- [34:17]
Narrator/Reporter
Why do these girls forgive him?
- [34:18]
Transportation Secretary Sean Duffy
She has a soft spot for troubled men.
- [34:21]
Narrator/Reporter
This is your show.
- [34:24]
Sarah Isgur
Find Get Real wherever you get your podcasts.
- [34:27]
Narrator/Reporter
Love runs Deeper than We Know.
- [34:29]
Sarah Isgur
And stream new episodes Thursdays on Hulu and Hulu on Disney
- [34:34]
Reporter Matt Rivers
Road to the NBA Finals is happening now on ESPN and ABC. It's make or break now.
- [34:42]
Guest/Interviewee (various, possibly civilians or experts)
Best on Best now.
- [34:44]
Reporter Matt Rivers
Watch him sit with his chest now greatness is up for grabs and the world is watching. Just wait on the home of the NBA Finals.
- [34:58]
Transportation Secretary Sean Duffy
All the work, all the sacrifice.
- [34:59]
Reporter Matt Rivers
The NBA Playoffs presented by Google.
- [35:02]
Guest/Interviewee (various, possibly civilians or experts)
Continue on ESPN and abc.
- [35:05]
Host/Martha Raddatz
So let's bring in the Roundtable former DNC chair Donna Brazile, former New Jersey Governor Chris Christie, SCOTUS blog editor Sarah Isger and author of the now New York Times bestselling book Last Branch standing, and former GOP Congressman Patrick McHenry. Welcome to you all. And congratulations especially to you, Sarah. So we're going to start with you. Republicans are touting the Supreme Court decision on the Voting Rights act as a big win. How significant do you see it?
- [35:36]
Sarah Isgur
I actually don't think this will terribly affect, certainly not this election. The question is 2028, 2030. Republicans in these states had actually begged conservative lawyers not to bring these cases for years because it had, as a partisan level, helped Republicans to be able to redistrict on the basis of race and pack Democrats into districts. What this will do is gut black representation in Congress. No question about that. But remember, Congress, at any point they can make laws about partisan redistricting. What the court said they are not allowed to do is to decide voters going in one district versus another based on the color of their skin.
- [36:19]
Host/Martha Raddatz
And, Don, I want your reaction to this. Speaker Mike Johnson told reporters that states with, quote, unconstitutional maps should look at redistricting before the midterms. What's your reaction to all of that?
- [36:30]
Donna Brazile
Well, first of all, it's a betrayal. It's a betrayal of black citizens who believed after 1965 that they could get a seat at the table, they could have fair representation. It's a betrayal of the Constitution. I believe this notion that you can have partisan gerrymandering, but not racial gerrymandering. I live in a state that is one third black, one third black. I watch my parents, I watch my uncles and uncles come from war. I was a girl, a little kid, who saw them cry because finally they could go to vote and stand in line and cast their ballots, not be afraid to die. So, Martha, it is very. It is immoral. It's unjustified, what they did. My family was voting already in Louisiana, and the governor stopped it. He stopped it because he said these maps are unconstitutional. Just a few years ago, he changed the maps because it was politics involved. But when it comes to race, Somehow or another 1 out of 3 people in Louisiana who are black don't have representation if this goes into effect. So, no, when you make it harder for black people to vote, we gonna show up. And that's how many of us feel. It's not just. It's anger, it's disappointment, it's betrayal. Because again, I watch my daddy. He comes home with medals. He comes home fighting for his country, and he could not vote. You are bringing us back to Jim Crow, and we do not want to go back to Jim Crow.
- [37:48]
Host/Martha Raddatz
Chris, you want to jump in on that?
- [37:49]
Chris Christie
Look, I think that what Sarah is saying about this from a practical perspective is correct. It can get fixed. Supreme Court.
- [37:58]
Donna Brazile
By this Congress?
- [37:59]
Chris Christie
Well, no, probably not by this Congress, Donna. But look, there are going to be Congresses in 28 and 30 that may look significantly different. Different than the one we have now based on some of the polling numbers that we're gonna talk about a bit later. But look, when you read the decision that Justice Alito laid out, he's. And this court's done this a number of times. They're laying political questions at the feet of the political branches. They're saying, we're not gonna get into this stuff anymore. You guys created this mess. Go fix the mess, and we're not gonna fix it for you anymore. It's a different way of approaching this. I understand. I understand Don is upset about it. I absolutely do. Because we have set. The court previously has set a pattern where they've gotten involved in every one of these disputes. It's time for the Congress to wake up and to deal with this gerrymandering issue. They haven't dealt with it, and they're dealing with it in a way that's destructive right now from a political perspective. Go back and fix it. And I think that's what the court.
- [38:55]
Former GOP Congressman Patrick McHenry
But from the state of North Carolina, the experience I had Since 1990, we've been in constant litigation in North Carolina because of the drawing of our districts. Multiple Supreme Court cases, nearly a dozen in that time, coming out of North Carolina. What the Voting Rights act did is in the first generation protect voting rights and access to voting. Very important thing, historic great thing for America. How it got used in this later time was old data to determine today's discrimination, which the courts ruled against. It was then used for partisan means. In my state. What the Voting Rights act did was enable Democrats to draw white Democrat districts using the Votes Rights Voting Rights act as justification. Then it became Republicans using it as justification. This is a political question. And now we've returned to a different era where this is back up to the states to draw these congressional maps and state and state House and state Senate maps. Gerrymandering is, by the way, called gerrymandering. And Elbridge Gerry was a friend of John Adams. This is from the Founders era. Challenges that can be remedied at the state level. But it's not up to the Supreme Court to opine on each one of these details.
- [40:05]
Sarah Isgur
Now, as the Chief justice said 20 years ago, the best way to stop discrimination on the basis of race is to stop discriminating on the basis of race, which is what these lines were doing.
- [40:14]
Host/Martha Raddatz
And it's. Sarah, I want to ask you another legal question. You also had the fifth Circuit Court of Appeals restricting access to the most common abortion pill. Where does this go from now? It's clearly significant right now. It means nationally.
- [40:30]
Sarah Isgur
So they have already filed at the Supreme Court for an emergency stay to stop that 5th Circuit ruling from going into effect. Remember that two years ago, Texas had a very similar lawsuit that went to the Supreme Court unanimously. The Supreme Court tossed that lawsuit out. We tend to ignore those cases when they're unanimous. They don't fit our narrative about the court being 6:3. So I expect that the Supreme Court will weigh in on this very quickly, at least on an administrative basis. But what they said in that Texas case was that doctors did not have the standing, they did not have an injury to complain about this. Here in Louisiana, we have the state arguing that they are injured by it. It seems pretty tenuous to me. But again, it's actually been the liberal side that has wanted greater standing for states in environmental regulations and climate change. Conservatives now adopting liberal arguments, liberals now adopting conservative arguments. Welcome to the Supreme Court in 2026.
- [41:27]
Donna Brazile
Practical effect.
- [41:28]
Host/Martha Raddatz
Now let's welcome ourselves to our poll, which had some pretty astonishing numbers. I want to Sean Duffy, by the way, said Americans are applauding President Trump's moves in Iran. This is what our poll found. 33% approved, 66% disapproved. So that's a very quiet round of applause. Chris, I love that you guys have Sarah's book there, right there, the shoe sharing book.
- [41:54]
Chris Christie
Keep it close to me at all times.
- [41:56]
Host/Martha Raddatz
At all times. You read it at all times. What struck you in the poll?
- [41:59]
Chris Christie
Well, here are a few of my favorite things from this poll.
- [42:01]
Host/Martha Raddatz
That's what we want.
- [42:02]
Chris Christie
Martha. Look, I look at independence when you're talking about midterm elections and that's what we're really focused on here. The president right track, wrong track in the country. Among independents, which is the first thing I would look at in polling when I was in elections, 1878among independents, 18% think we're on the right track. 78% of independents and more and more people are identifying as independents. Evans say we're on the wrong track. The president is in bad shape. Six, six years ago, eight years ago now in 2018 it was a 6 point margin among independents, about Democrats over Republicans, 44, 38. Now it's 20 points among independents favoring Democrats over Republicans for the midterms. These are all really bad wins in the districts that are gonna make the difference in deep red and deep blue districts, it doesn't matter. But in the districts that will decide who's going to be the majority, a 20 point gap in favor of the Democrats over my party should tell my party we got big problems and a lot of work to do in the next six months.
- [43:10]
Host/Martha Raddatz
And Donna, let's remember, it's all about the economy. It's all about affordability. And right now, $4.45 for a gallon of gas. They've got to be nervous about this.
- [43:22]
Donna Brazile
Well, look, I look for something within the mid range between 430 and 475. It is getting bad. Over the last couple of days. I've been through Florida, I've Been through California and God knows California gas prices. I would stop driving and get back on the bicycle. If you talk about anger, people are angry. Groceries up. Okay. Rent is up. Health care is out of reach for most Americans. They cannot stretch their paycheck till the end of the month. This is about kitchen table issues. They're running out of patience with Donald Trump and his administration, and they don't believe his lies anymore.
- [43:55]
Host/Martha Raddatz
Okay, I have to move to another legal issue and we'll start. But I want to start with you on this, Patrick. The Comey indictment, the Seashells on The beach indictment, 8647 that Comey put on his Instagram, pulled that down quickly. The Justice Department believes that is a threat. Do you see that as a real threat?
- [44:16]
Former GOP Congressman Patrick McHenry
Well, the acting attorney general says you have to prove intent and had a very honest press conference about it. The fact is that in a traditional setting, a former FBI director making a threat on a president, a sitting president of a different party is a significant thing stepping back. But in the Trump era, this thing is discounted, ignored, and especially when it comes to Comey, who's not viewed as a serious actor and much more as a political gadfly. So this was more of a social media stupid thing that he did rather than significant intent to do bad things, as has been proven out since he was fired as FBI director. So because it's Comey and because it's Trump, things are viewed differently. And that tells you more about the era we're in than anything else.
- [44:57]
Host/Martha Raddatz
You got 40 seconds, Sarah.
- [44:58]
Sarah Isgur
There is binding Supreme Court precedent going back to the days of LBJ on this question. This is not a real case. We know it's not a real case. This was a press release. And we should all be angry that we are having a government try to undermine the First Amendment in this way. Legally, they will lose this case, but politically, they are doing real damage.
- [45:18]
Chris Christie
I know Jim Comey well. He's one of the stupidest smart guys I've ever met. And this is stupid, but it's not criminal.
- [45:24]
Host/Martha Raddatz
He apologize on that note. Okay? Thanks to all of you. Thanks for being here. Up next, ABC's Matt Rivers reports from Cuba on how the US push for regime change is impacting daily life in Havana. We're back in a moment.
- [45:42]
Narrator/Reporter
There was only one Richard Simmons.
- [45:44]
Host/Martha Raddatz
It's sweating time.
- [45:45]
Narrator/Reporter
Megastar, adored by millions. Then one day, he took disappeared for a decade.
- [45:49]
Reporter Matt Rivers
Where in the world is Richard Simmons?
- [45:51]
Narrator/Reporter
Now his closest family and friends speak out for the first time to Diane Sawyer.
- [45:55]
Guest/Interviewee (various, possibly civilians or experts)
He had to be in a lot of pain. He had to be in a lot of pain.
- [45:58]
Narrator/Reporter
And what does Richards live in? Housekeeper. The last person to see him alive now say happened behind closed doors.
- [46:03]
Host/Martha Raddatz
This is the first time I'm talking about this.
- [46:05]
Narrator/Reporter
The Mystery of Richard Simmons, a Diane Sawyer Special, premieres Tuesday, May 12th on ABC and stream on Disney and Hulu.
- [46:12]
Guest/Interviewee (various, possibly civilians or experts)
This episode is brought to you by Progressive Insurance. You chose to hit play on this podcast today. Smart choice. Make another smart choice with auto quote exclusive Explorer to compare rates from multiple car insurance companies all at once. Try it@progressive.com Progressive Casualty Insurance Company and affiliates not available in all states or situations. Prices vary based on how you buy
- [46:35]
Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth
problems. We'll finish one first. I like to finish a job. On the way back from Iran, we'll have one of our big maybe the USS Abraham Lincoln aircraft carrier, the biggest in the world. We'll have that come in, stop about 100 yards offshore and they'll say, thank you very much, we give up.
- [46:57]
Host/Martha Raddatz
President Trump on Friday saying he'll target Cuba after Iran. Cuba's president responding, quote, no aggressor, no matter how powerful, will find surrender in Cuba. Despite the ongoing conflict in the Middle east, the Trump administration has kept up its its push for regime change in Cuba with a strict oil embargo leaving the island nation's economy devastated. ABC's Matt Rivers is on the ground
- [47:23]
Reporter Matt Rivers
in Havana just after dawn along the Malecon, Havana's famed coastal highway filled with Cubans all marching, all headed toward the same place. So that building right there is the US Embassy here in Havana. And today the Cuban government is surging hundreds of thousands of people, people right past its front door with a clear message. The Cuban government is not backing down. It was an anti imperialist march, says the government, in the face of a US Administration more determined than ever to topple the government that's ruled this country for nearly 70 years.
- [47:55]
Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth
Cuba is a failing nation and we're going to do this. And we may stop by Cuba after we're finished with this.
- [48:02]
Reporter Matt Rivers
The Trump administration has explicitly not taken military action off the table to achieve that goal, but announced new sanctions on Cuban leadership Friday, increasing pressure on them to step down. Cuba's foreign minister, Bruno Rodriguez Paria, calling those new sanctions collective punishment on the Cuban people.
- [48:19]
Transportation Secretary Sean Duffy
Those serious economic reforms are impossible with these people in charge. It can't happen. And these people in charge aren't just economically incompetent. They have rolled out the welcome mat to adversaries of the United States to operate within Cuban territories against our national interest with impunity.
- [48:36]
Reporter Matt Rivers
But for now, the pressure campaign has focused on one main thing. Oil. A U.S. embargo wiped out nearly 60% of Cuba's oil import supply in a matter of days. Now, in Havana, as night falls, the lights often don't come on. The only lights on on this street right now are the ones that are powered by batteries. And this is the new norm. There's not a single neighborhood in all of the city of Havana that has not been affected by these blackouts. And the longer this country goes without getting enough oil meal, the worse this gets. Upstairs from the street, Mom Idanya cooks on a propane stove, hamburger, rice and beans by flashlight. Yet again, that's most nights here now. It's a crisis, she says. It's incredibly stressful. There's no schedule to eat, to cook. You can't plan your life.
- [49:23]
Guest/Interviewee (various, possibly civilians or experts)
It's horrible.
- [49:24]
Reporter Matt Rivers
After dinner, it's homework by flashlight, lantern in one hand, pencil in the other. Daylight in Havana reveals more challenges. The smell of rotting trash wafting through the streets. With no gas to run the trash trucks, there's piles of trash like this all over the city. Not just in poorer places, but also right here. That building is the Ministry of Tourism. Hospitals forced to scale back operations. Dimming lights to conserve power. Air conditioning only in critical areas. Pediatrician Maria Elena Mesa says many of her colleagues can't even get to work because of the lack of gas. We asked how she was feeling. It's hard to keep back the tears, she says. It's a little difficult, but no matter what, I'll be here because it's what I do. Havana's famous fleet of classic cars now also sit idle. A single gallon of gasoline costs $40 here, and tourists have all but stopped coming. Many drivers we spoke to today have had no clients at all. And they say it's been that way for months, ever since the oil stopped flowing into the country. But when we asked them to talk about that reality on camera, everybody said no, for fear of government retribution. And that is a sign that for all the economic hardship, for all the pressure from the us, the Communist government is still firmly in control, unofficially still, led by this man, 94 year old Raul Castro, Fidel's brother, sat front and center at that march, just in front of the US Embassy. Martha the US government argues that the Cuban government itself is responsible for a lot of the suffering that you just saw there. In our piece, they say that the government here is inefficient, it is corrupt, and that the people are inept. Stewards of whatever is left of the economy here. They say that it is time for this government in its current form to come to an end. Meanwhile, though, it is ordinary Cubans caught up in the crossfire.
- [51:10]
Host/Martha Raddatz
Martha, Our thanks to Matt Rivers. We'll be right back. That's all for us today. Thanks for sharing part of your Sunday with us. Check out World News tonight and have a great Sunday.
- [51:27]
Chris Christie
ESPN presents the Stanley Cup Playoffs.
- [51:30]
Guest/Interviewee (various, possibly civilians or experts)
The most exciting playoffs out there.
- [51:32]
Chris Christie
A two month roller coaster filled with
- [51:35]
Guest/Interviewee (various, possibly civilians or experts)
sudden death overtimes and good old fashioned chaos.
- [51:38]
Former GOP Congressman Patrick McHenry
Unbelievable.
- [51:39]
Guest/Interviewee (various, possibly civilians or experts)
Every shift matters, every series is a statement and everyone gets their shot at the Cup. The stage Stanley Cup Playoffs presented by Geico continue on abc, ESPN and the ESPN applied.