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Welcome to Thoughts on the Market. I'm Mike Wilson, Morgan Stanley CIO and chief U.S. equity strategist. Today on the podcast, I'll be discussing how to position as we head into the new year. It's Monday, December 16th at 11:30am in New York, so let's get after it. The big question for most investors trying to beat The S&P 500 is whether returns will continue to be dominated by the Magnificent Seven and a few other high quality large cap stocks, or if we're going to see a sustainable broadening out of performance to new areas. Truth be told, 2024 has been a year during which investors have oscillated between a view of broadening out or continued narrowing. This preference has coincided with the ever changing macro view about growth and inflation and how the Fed would respond. To recount this past year, our original framework suggested investors would have to contend with markets reacting to these different macro outcomes. More specifically, whether the economy would end up in a soft landing, a hard landing or a no landing outcome of accelerating growth in inflation. Getting this view right helped us navigate what kinds of stocks, sectors and factors would outperform during the year. The perfect portfolio this year would have been overweight broad cyclicals like energy, industrials and financials in the first quarter followed by a magnificent 7 tilt in early 2Q that got more defensive over the summer before shifting back towards high quality cyclicals in late third quarter. Lately that cyclical tilt has included some lower quality stocks, while the Magnificent Seven has had a big resurgence in the past few weeks. We attributed these shifts to the changing perceptions on the macro which have been more uncertain than normal going into next year. I think this pattern continues and it currently makes sense to have a barbell of large cap, high quality cyclicals and growth stocks even though small caps and the biggest losers of the prior year tend to outperform in January as portfolios rebalance. We remain up the quality curve because it appears the seasonal low quality cyclical small cap rally was pulled forward this year due to the decisive election outcome. In addition to the large hedges being removed, there was also a spike in many confidence surveys which further spilled into excitement about this small cap lower quality rotation. Therefore, it makes sense that the short term euphoria that's now taking a break with the rotation back towards large cap quality mentioned earlier. The fundamental driver of this rotation is earnings. Both earnings revisions and the expected growth rate of earnings next year remain much better for high quality stocks and sectors given the uncertainty around policy sequencing and implementation on tariffs, immigration and how much the Fed can cut rates next year, we suspect equity markets will tread a bit more conservatively in the first quarter than what we observed this fall. The biggest risk to the upside would be a more modest implementation of tariffs, a de emphasis on deportations of working illegal immigrants, and perhaps more aggressive deregulation than is viewed pro growth. Other variables worth watching closely include how quickly and aggressively the new Department of Government Efficiency acts with respect to shrinking the size of the federal agencies. While I'm hopeful this new effort can prove the skeptics wrong, success may prove to be growth negative in the near term, given how much the government has been driving overall GDP growth for the past few years. In my view, a true broadening out of the economy and the stock market is contingent on a smaller government, both in terms of regulation and absolute size. In my view, this is the most exciting potential change for taxpayers, smaller businesses and markets overall. However, it's also likely to take several years to fully manifest. In the meantime, I wish you a happy holiday season and healthy and prosperous New Year. Thanks for listening. If you enjoy the podcast, leave us a review wherever you listen and share thoughts on the market with a friend or colleague today.
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Podcast Summary: "Thoughts on the Market" — How Investors Can Best Position for 2025
Host: Morgan Stanley
Episode: How Investors Can Best Position for 2025
Release Date: December 16, 2024
Speaker: Mike Wilson, Morgan Stanley CIO and Chief U.S. Equity Strategist
In the December 16, 2024 episode of Thoughts on the Market, Mike Wilson, Morgan Stanley's Chief Investment Officer and Chief U.S. Equity Strategist, delves into strategic positioning for investors as they approach 2025. With a focus on navigating market oscillations and macroeconomic uncertainties, Wilson provides a comprehensive analysis of past trends and future projections to aid investors in optimizing their portfolios.
Wilson begins by addressing the central dilemma facing investors: whether the market will continue to be driven predominantly by the "Magnificent Seven" large-cap stocks or if there will be a sustainable diversification into new sectors and areas.
“The big question for most investors trying to beat The S&P 500 is whether returns will continue to be dominated by the Magnificent Seven and a few other high-quality large-cap stocks, or if we're going to see a sustainable broadening out of performance to new areas.”
[00:00]
He observes that throughout 2024, investor sentiment has fluctuated between favoring broad diversification and maintaining a focus on high-quality large caps. This variability has been closely tied to shifting macroeconomic views on growth, inflation, and Federal Reserve policies.
Reflecting on the past year, Wilson outlines the importance of understanding potential macroeconomic scenarios—soft landing, hard landing, or no landing with accelerating growth and inflation—and how these outcomes influence market behavior.
“Our original framework suggested investors would have to contend with markets reacting to these different macro outcomes.”
[00:45]
Accurate forecasting of these scenarios enabled Morgan Stanley to strategically navigate which stocks, sectors, and factors would outperform.
Wilson details an ideal portfolio strategy that adapted to the evolving market conditions throughout 2024:
Recently, there has been a shift incorporating some lower-quality stocks alongside a resurgence of the Magnificent Seven, driven by changing macroeconomic perceptions.
“Lately that cyclical tilt has included some lower quality stocks, while the Magnificent Seven has had a big resurgence in the past few weeks.”
[02:30]
Given the ongoing uncertainty in macroeconomic factors, Wilson advocates for a barbell strategy combining large-cap, high-quality cyclicals, and growth stocks. This approach balances the potential stability of large caps with the growth opportunities inherent in cyclicals and high-quality sectors.
He also notes that small-cap stocks and prior year’s underperformers typically see outperformance in January due to portfolio rebalancing. However, this year, the seasonal rally in small-cap lower-quality stocks was accelerated by a decisive election outcome and increased investor confidence.
“It currently makes sense to have a barbell of large cap, high-quality cyclicals and growth stocks even though small caps and the biggest losers of the prior year tend to outperform in January as portfolios rebalance.”
[02:15]
Earnings revisions and projected growth rates remain more favorable for high-quality stocks and sectors amidst policy uncertainties, including potential tariffs, immigration reforms, and anticipated Federal Reserve rate cuts.
“The fundamental driver of this rotation is earnings.”
[03:00]
Wilson anticipates that due to these uncertainties, equity markets may adopt a more conservative stance in the first quarter of 2025 compared to the more optimistic outlook seen in the fall.
Wilson identifies several risks that could positively influence the market:
Additionally, the actions of the new Department of Government Efficiency in reducing the size of federal agencies are crucial. While successful downsizing could facilitate a broader economic and market expansion, it may also have short-term growth negatives due to decreased government-driven GDP growth.
“Other variables worth watching closely include how quickly and aggressively the new Department of Government Efficiency acts with respect to shrinking the size of the federal agencies.”
[03:15]
Wilson expresses optimism that a reduced government footprint—both in regulation and absolute size—could lead to a more diversified and robust economy and stock market. However, he cautions that such a transformation is likely to unfold over several years.
“In my view, a true broadening out of the economy and the stock market is contingent on a smaller government, both in terms of regulation and absolute size.”
[03:35]
He highlights the potential benefits for taxpayers, smaller businesses, and overall market dynamics, envisioning a more resilient and expansive economic landscape.
Concluding the episode, Wilson extends holiday greetings and wishes for a prosperous New Year. He encourages listeners to review and share the podcast to continue the dialogue on market strategies.
“In the meantime, I wish you a happy holiday season and healthy and prosperous New Year.”
[03:50]
This episode of Thoughts on the Market provides valuable insights into strategic investment positioning amidst changing economic landscapes. Mike Wilson's analysis emphasizes the importance of adaptability, the role of earnings as a fundamental driver, and the potential long-term benefits of a smaller government on market diversification.