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Welcome to Thoughts on the Market. I'm Michael Zesas, Morgan Stanley's global head of fixed income research and public policy strategy. Today, takeaways from our Japan Investor Summit It's Wednesday, May 28th at 10:30am in New York. Last week I attended our Japan Investor Summit in Tokyo. Two full days of panels on key investment themes and one on one meetings with clients from all parts of the Morgan Stanley franchise. During the meeting, Morgan Stanley Research launched its mid year economics and market strategy outlooks. So needless to say, there was a healthy dialogue on investment strategy over those 48 hours and I want to share what were the most frequently asked questions I received and of course, our answers to those questions. As you could guess, US Tariff policy was a key focus. Could tariffs re escalate or was the worst behind us? And if so, could investors set aside their concerns about the US Economy? It's a complicated issue, so accordingly our answer is nuanced. On the one hand, the current state of the play is mostly aligned with where we thought tariff policy would be by the end of the year. It's just arrived much earlier Higher overall US tariffs with a skew toward higher tariffs on China relative to the rest of the world, as the US has less common ground with them and thus greater challenges in reaching a trade agreement with China in a timely manner. So that might imply we've arrived at the end point, but we think that's too simple of a way for investors to think about it. First, there's plenty of potential for escalation from current levels as part of ongoing negotiations, and even if it's only temporary, it could affect markets. Second, and perhaps more importantly, even though the US Cutting tariffs on China from very high levels recently brought down the effective tariff rate, it's still considerably higher than where we started the year. So one's market outlook will still have to account for the pressures of tariffs, which our economists translate into slower growth and higher recession risk this year. Another key concern U.S. fiscal policy and whether the U.S. would be embarking on a path to smaller deficits in line with campaign promises, or if the tax and spending bill making its way through Congress would keep that from happening for investors. We think it's most important to focus on the next year because what happens beyond that is highly speculative and we do not expect deficits to come down in the next year. Extending expiring tax cuts and extending some new ones, albeit with some spending offsets, should modestly expand the deficit next year in our estimates, and some further deficit expansion should come from other factors baked into the budget like higher interest payments. It's understandable these two questions came up because we do think the answers are key to the outlook for markets. In particular, they inform some of the stronger views in our market's outlook. For example, slower relative US Growth and the related potential for foreign investors to increasingly prefer their portfolios reflect their local currency should keep the US Dollar weakening, a key call our team started this year with, and now continues another example, the shape of the US treasury yield curve. Higher deficits and the uncertainty about inflation caused by tariffs should make for a steeper yield curve. So while we expect US treasury yields to fall, making for good returns for high grade bonds including corporate credit, the better returns might be in shorter maturities thanks for listening. If you enjoy thoughts on the market, please leave us a review wherever you listen and if you like what you hear, tell a friend or colleague about us today.
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Podcast Summary: "How to Decode Tariff Signals"
Podcast Information:
In the opening segment of the episode, Michael Zesas, Morgan Stanley's Global Head of Fixed Income Research and Public Policy Strategy, sets the stage by discussing his recent attendance at the Japan Investor Summit held in Tokyo. The summit spanned two days filled with panels addressing key investment themes and facilitated one-on-one meetings with clients across Morgan Stanley's franchise.
Michael Zesas [00:45]: "Two full days of panels on key investment themes and one-on-one meetings with clients from all parts of the Morgan Stanley franchise."
He highlights the launch of Morgan Stanley Research's mid-year economics and market strategy outlooks during the summit, emphasizing the robust dialogue on investment strategies that took place over the intensive two-day period.
A significant portion of the discussion centers around the complexities of US tariff policy, a primary concern voiced by attendees of the summit.
Zesas delves into whether tariffs might escalate further or if the most challenging phase has passed. He explains that while the current tariff landscape aligns with Morgan Stanley's projections for the year's end, its premature arrival poses new challenges.
Michael Zesas [01:30]: "It's just arrived much earlier. Higher overall US tariffs with a skew toward higher tariffs on China relative to the rest of the world."
He points out the intensified tariffs on China, attributing them to the strained trade relations and the difficulties in swiftly reaching a comprehensive trade agreement with the nation. However, Zesas cautions against a simplistic interpretation that the worst is over.
Michael Zesas [01:55]: "We think that's too simple of a way for investors to think about it. First, there's plenty of potential for escalation from current levels as part of ongoing negotiations."
Despite recent reductions in tariffs on China, Zesas notes that the effective tariff rate remains significantly higher than at the beginning of the year. This sustained elevation in tariffs is translating into economic pressures, manifesting as slower growth and an increased risk of recession.
Michael Zesas [02:20]: "Even though the US cutting tariffs on China from very high levels recently brought down the effective tariff rate, it's still considerably higher than where we started the year."
These economic strains necessitate that investors remain vigilant, factoring in the lingering impacts of tariffs when assessing market outlooks.
Another critical topic discussed is the trajectory of U.S. fiscal policy, particularly regarding federal deficits. Zesas addresses the uncertainty surrounding whether the U.S. will move towards smaller deficits in line with campaign promises or if continued tax and spending measures will prevent such progress.
Michael Zesas [02:50]: "Extending expiring tax cuts and extending some new ones, albeit with some spending offsets, should modestly expand the deficit next year in our estimates."
He emphasizes that the focus should remain on the forthcoming year, as projections beyond that remain speculative. The expectation is that deficits will not decrease in the near term, partly due to higher interest payments and other budgetary factors.
Zesas connects the discussed fiscal and tariff policies to broader market expectations, offering insights into how these factors inform Morgan Stanley's market outlook.
He predicts that slower U.S. growth and the potential shift of foreign investors towards local currency-denominated portfolios will contribute to a weakening U.S. Dollar—a key forecast that Morgan Stanley initiated earlier in the year.
Michael Zesas [03:10]: "Slower relative US Growth and the related potential for foreign investors to increasingly prefer their portfolios reflect their local currency should keep the US Dollar weakening, a key call our team started this year with."
Regarding the U.S. Treasury yield curve, Zesas anticipates that higher deficits and inflation uncertainties stemming from tariff policies will lead to a steeper yield curve. This steepening is expected to result in falling treasury yields, presenting opportunities for favorable returns on high-grade bonds and corporate credit.
Michael Zesas [03:20]: "We expect US treasury yields to fall, making for good returns for high-grade bonds including corporate credit, the better returns might be in shorter maturities."
Wrapping up the episode, Zesas reiterates the importance of understanding the nuanced nature of tariff signals and fiscal policies to navigate the current market landscape effectively. His insights provide investors with a comprehensive framework to anticipate and respond to ongoing economic challenges and opportunities.
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Disclaimer: The episode concludes with a standard informational disclaimer clarifying that the content is not financial advice and may not be suitable for all investors.
This comprehensive overview encapsulates the key discussions and insights from the episode "How to Decode Tariff Signals," providing listeners with a clear understanding of the implications of US tariff policies and fiscal strategies on market dynamics.