Episode Summary: “Patterns for Plus Sizes, with Gabby Brown and Leila Kelleher”
Podcast: Sewing With Threads (Threads Magazine)
Guests: Gabby Brown & Leila Kelleher
Host: Carol Frase
Date: April 1, 2026
Episode: 100
Overview
In this special 100th episode of “Sewing With Threads,” host Carol Frase welcomes Gabby Brown and Leila Kelleher—the co-authors of Plus Size Pattern Making for Womenswear, a groundbreaking new book. The conversation dives into the persistent gap in plus size pattern education, their mission to change industry practice, concrete technical advice, and the philosophies guiding their work. With humor and candor, the guests share industry insights, bust myths, and offer practical advice for sewists of all levels.
Key Discussion Points and Insights
1. Impetus for the Book and Issues in Plus Size Pattern Making
[02:48-04:09]
- Gabby and Leila saw a glaring absence of plus size pattern resources, both in fashion education and home sewing.
- “There isn’t any education around this. There are no plus size pattern making books at all, with the exception of ours now.” (Gabby, 03:23)
- Their goal: equip future designers from the ground up, instilling plus size expertise in fashion curricula.
2. Industry and Home Sewing Gaps in Plus Size Patterns
[04:21-06:26]
- Both guests noted pushback from pattern companies who cite difficulty and lack of resources as reasons for not expanding sizes.
- The book seeks to address this gap so anyone can make or buy clothes they want to wear.
3. Debunking “Difficulty” Myths in Plus Size Pattern Making
[06:26-08:51]
- The perceived difficulty in fitting plus sizes is due to unfamiliarity—not actual technical complexity.
- “If you go to fashion school, you’re working with a small size block … then when you’re working with a size 20, the shapes are different … and it seems difficult because you’re not used to that body.” (Leila, 06:26)
- There’s no more variation among plus size bodies than straight sizes—just less industry and media exposure.
4. The Guests’ Expertise and Training
[08:51-13:18]
- Both Gabby and Leila are largely self-taught in plus size pattern making.
- Gabby learned on the job in industry, across various specialty sizings: juniors, big and tall, petites, plus, etc.
- Leila’s approach fuses custom clothing experience and a doctorate in biomechanics, helping her see bodies analytically rather than only aesthetically.
5. Approach to Plus Size Pattern Design
[13:18-17:18]
- At Muna and Broad, Leila aims for patterns that fit well right out of the envelope for each size—rejecting the idea that everyone must make their own alterations.
- “We don’t believe that people should have to make pattern adjustments.” (Leila, 13:59)
- For plus size sewists, sewing is often a necessity, not just a hobby—emphasizing the need for accessible, correct-fit patterns.
6. Block Drafting and Proportional Pattern Making
[17:18-19:54]
- The book’s block instructions are adaptable to any body size, not just plus sizes.
- Unlike traditional methods using fixed “average” measurements, their proportional system is fully based on the sewist's (or client’s) measurements.
- “Every single one of those instructions is tailored to an open measurement ... Learn to trust your eye … and be able to build your skill set.” (Gabby, 18:48)
- Freehand drawing over reliance on standard curves/rulers is encouraged.
7. Developing the Eye for Fitting Different Bodies
[19:54-22:29]
- Building skill and confidence with freehand drafting comes from repeated practice: “Do it, try it, fail, do it, try it, fail, do it again … learn from that.” (Gabby, 20:26)
- As educators, both stress demystifying the curves and shapes necessary for plus size fit.
8. Fitting Process and Practical Examples
[22:29-25:23]
- Their model for the book, Martha, only required one round of fitting, thanks to experience and anticipation of her fitting needs.
- “We had prepared toiles … and had done some preliminary, I guess pre adjustments … then we fitted things and that was it.” (Leila, 23:39)
- Achieving such fitting skill takes accumulated experience, but the process is made approachable in their book.
9. Accessibility for Beginners and Non-Traditional Users
[25:23-26:13]
- The book is written to be accessible to home sewists and beginners—not just fashion students.
- Technical hints, tips, and inclusive approaches (e.g., for accessible or gender non-conforming garments) are included.
10. Balanced Patterns and Block Customization
[26:13-29:00]
- “Balanced” pattern refers to symmetry between front and back or left/right, but adjustments may be necessary for unique bodies (forward shoulders, varied waistlines).
- The book visually demonstrates the transition from block to custom pattern, highlighting the body-positive philosophy.
11. Challenges for Pattern Companies & The Need for True Plus Size Ranges
[29:00-33:02]
- Expanding size ranges involves cost, model photography, and the development of new blocks (can’t just grade up from size 8).
- Plus size customers are “incredibly brand loyal” because of limited options.
12. Pattern Drafting Software
[33:02-36:29]
- The book’s instructions are compatible with drafting software, although both recommend starting on paper to train the eye and understanding.
- “We still teach our students by hand. I don’t know of any fashion programs … who doesn’t teach by hand to start with and then introduce the digital pattern making later.” (Leila, 35:39)
13. Metric vs. Imperial Measurements – On-the-Ground Realities
[36:29-40:44]
- Gabby prefers Imperial (“That’s just how I’ve been taught”), Leila prefers Metric (Australian background).
- Book provides conversions for international accessibility.
- Measurement systems influence both pattern accuracy and industry habits; the guests share tips for navigating between them.
14. Respectful Fitting and Body Positivity
[41:10 – episode end]
- The book also covers conducting fittings in respectful, empowering ways—one of its unique and valuable aspects.
Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments
-
On Plus Size Pattern Myths:
- “There’s exactly the same amount of variation in plus sized bodies that there is in straight sized bodies. The difference is … we are working on straight sized bodies every day … [plus size bodies] become a foreign concept and it becomes something that is a little bit more untouchable.”
— Gabby Brown, [08:02]
- “There’s exactly the same amount of variation in plus sized bodies that there is in straight sized bodies. The difference is … we are working on straight sized bodies every day … [plus size bodies] become a foreign concept and it becomes something that is a little bit more untouchable.”
-
On Drafting Confidence:
- “You should trust your eye … Learn to trust your eye and the shapes that you’re drawing on the paper and in tandem with fitting, be able to build your skill set.”
— Gabby Brown, [18:48]
- “You should trust your eye … Learn to trust your eye and the shapes that you’re drawing on the paper and in tandem with fitting, be able to build your skill set.”
-
On Software and Measuring Systems:
- “We still teach our students by hand. I don’t know of any … who doesn’t teach by hand to start with and then introduce the digital pattern making later.”
— Leila Kelleher, [35:39]
- “We still teach our students by hand. I don’t know of any … who doesn’t teach by hand to start with and then introduce the digital pattern making later.”
-
On Pattern Grading:
- “It doesn’t work well to grade up from say a size 8 or 10 all the way up even to a size 24 … there does need to be a second block developed.”
— Leila Kelleher, [30:15]
- “It doesn’t work well to grade up from say a size 8 or 10 all the way up even to a size 24 … there does need to be a second block developed.”
-
On Plus Size Sewist Motivation:
- “For plus size folks, it can be so difficult to get clothing at all that people are often sewing for necessity. So just sewing to have the basics of their wardrobe that they literally can’t buy at the store.”
— Leila Kelleher, [14:35]
- “For plus size folks, it can be so difficult to get clothing at all that people are often sewing for necessity. So just sewing to have the basics of their wardrobe that they literally can’t buy at the store.”
Important Timestamps for Key Segments
- [02:48] Book impetus and the state of plus size education
- [06:26] Examining the “difficulty myth” in plus size pattern making
- [08:58] How the guests became experts; industry vs academia
- [13:59] Rethinking pattern fit: should patterns fit “out of the envelope”?
- [17:48] Proportional drafting method explained
- [19:54] Training your “eye” for pattern shapes and fit
- [23:39] Real-world fitting: one round for the main model
- [26:44] “Balanced” patterns and adjusting for real bodies
- [30:15] Why pattern expansion/release in plus sizes is slow in the industry
- [33:54] Can you use these instructions with pattern-making software?
- [36:29] Metric vs. Imperial debate – real-world challenges
Conclusion
This episode offers a rare, in-depth look at the intersection of technical pattern making, industry realities, and body-inclusive philosophy. Leila Kelleher and Gabby Brown, through humor and deep expertise, make a compelling case for overhauling how patterns are made, shared, and taught—both for the fashion industry and home sewists. Their approach is practical, rigorous, inclusive, and deeply respectful of all bodies—a must-listen for anyone interested in garment making or fashion’s future.
Recommended for:
- Home sewists seeking better plus size options
- Pattern makers and educators
- Fashion students and pros
- Anyone interested in inclusive and technically solid pattern design
For full details and to access the book, show notes, or more resources: threadsmagazine.com