← THREE
THREE
The Aftermath | Chapter 2
00:25:43
In a place where everyone knows everyone, during the early days of the investigation, police have no shortage of tips. Soon they turn their attention to three potential suspects: Frank Nasario, Anthony Torres and Roy Santos…but only a few months later, any hope that this case would be open and shut is dashed; none of the men’s DNA matches what was found on Dana Ireland or at the scene.
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- [00:02]
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- [00:28]
Lynn Kawano
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- [00:59]
Ken Lawson
The Hawaii Innocence Project, like all innocence projects around the country, is a non profit dedicated to freeing people they believe were wrongly convicted, often by finding exculpatory DNA evidence. Ken Lawson was hired as a clerk of sorts by the co director at the time, Randy Roth, in 2010, and over the years he rose through the ranks to become an associate director and now co director of the Hawaii Innocence Project. But Ken began practicing law long before then, starting out in 1989 in Cincinnati, Ohio, where he also opened up his own law firm in 1993. His firm handled many high profile clients throughout 1993 to 2007, like now University of Colorado Boulder football coach Deion Sanders. But what's unique here is that Ken relates to many of his clients now in a way very few lawyers do. He had a successful practice until his license was revoked because of misconduct while addicted to prescription painkillers. He pleaded guilty to the felony of obtaining controlled substances by fraudulent means and was sentenced to 24 months in prison, which he served 10 of before heading to a living sober facility in Hawaii for six months, followed by 12 months of supervisory release.
- [02:28]
Eric Carlsmith
Like when I came out, I was on parole and so they provided services for me. You know, even though I had practiced law and all this other shit, man, they still was like, okay, here's how you get a bus pass, here's how you get security card, here's a list of jobs for you to apply to. If you need to go to counseling, here's your counseling. When you're innocent, they just cut you loose, right? Hey, we're happy for you. Goodbye. Not a bus, you know, so you know, you leave your little bus fare, you know what I mean? Okay, how do I get home? When you're guilty, they take you to your front door or to your halfway house. You know what I mean?
- [03:05]
Ken Lawson
After Ken became associated with the Hawaii Innocence Project, he eventually joined the faculty at the University of Hawaii Law School alongside the person who first welcomed him into the Hawaii Innocence Project.
- [03:18]
Eric Carlsmith
Well, that kind of started when Randy was a co director. Randy put together for our Innocence Project a group of former prosecutors. And this is one of the cases the students presented. They were presenting actual cases, cases where we believe our class actually innocent. They would present them to former prosecutors and get their feedback and stuff like that.
- [03:41]
Ken Lawson
We had some guest students.
- [03:43]
John Gonsalves
There was about 100 students total in that class.
- [03:46]
Eric Carlsmith
Jenny Hinch, who used to run the Winanston Project, she found out that I used to practice criminal law, so she offered me a position, and she said, you can come and work as a clerk. Yeah. And the Innocence Project, like, for like, 12 bucks an hour, I'm like, well, as long as I don't go back to prison, I'll come to work for 12 hours. But I went in, and that's how I started, and that's when I met Ian. Ian was the first Innocence Project client I talked to over the phone. And so it was interesting because he was in prison. I had just got it.
- [04:18]
Ken Lawson
Now, since first looking into this case, Ken Lawson and his team at the Hawaii Innocence Project have spent a lot of time in the case file from the investigation. They wanted to know exactly how we ended up where we are today, how so many names got thrown into this mess, because, remember, we're not even to an arrest yet, let alone a conviction. And that's because, as Ken Lawson sees it, from the very beginning, these witness interviews weren't exactly handled appropriately. I'm Amanda Knox, and this is three. Chapter two, the Aftermath. We mentioned in episode one that at the time of the incident, Eric told investigators that he and his girlfriend lived on Ililani Road. And on that day, December 24, he said he was outside of his house when he noticed a pickup truck at the intersection of Ililani Road and Kapohokai Drive, facing southwest, which was the spot where Dana was presumably hit. He recalled the specifics during a walkthrough of the scene with law enforcement.
- [05:54]
John Gonsalves
Okay, Eric, as I was pulling down this road, I saw a green truck parked at the end of this road. What color was the truck? Turquoise green. It wasn't aqua color. It was green. It was like a pine and turquoise green mix.
- [06:13]
Ken Lawson
But when investigators interview Eric again, that's not all he Claims to remember. Now he's saying he can even remember what the driver specifically looked like.
- [06:26]
John Gonsalves
Little shorter than me, and I'm 5 10, so he's probably about 5 8. He weighs about 230, 240 pounds. He's got a big pot belly, and he has tattoos on him. That day, he had shorts on and no shirt. There's this one tattoo that's right on his chest, and it's right here. It's a spike with a snake that goes around it. And that's the guy who did it. And I know nothing can change what I'm thinking right now.
- [06:57]
Ken Lawson
Eric also says he believes this guy has a brother named Chris. And that, combined with the description, makes investigators believe he's got to be talking about someone they are quite familiar with, A local named Frank Nasario. Now, here is the thing with our man Eric. Almost every time he's interviewed, he throws in some new piece of information he's confident matters and is accurate.
- [07:28]
Eric Carlsmith
So Eric gets interviewed the first day by one particular cop. The next day, I believe, another detective comes out there. Look at how he interviews Eric. Eric is telling him, I didn't see anything. And he just keeps praying, like you had to see something. And this is where you talking about false confessions or misidentification stuff. This is something that you want to look at and you can use to show people how a police detective asking leading questions in an intimidating way can get evidence that's wrong because you have to read that report. It becomes. I mean, I use it to teach the students and clients. Eric is telling him, you had to see something. It's almost like, in a way to where he's letting Eric know, I think you're lying because you may be involved. So you saw something. And so then Eric starts feeding him what he wants to hear. And now the investigation's going in a way that's been slanted based on bad police work. See here you got a big case, right? You got a young lady who was killed on Christmas Eve, right, in a very horrendous way. Now I need to be the hero. So you got all these detectives trying to solve the case, and they're not talking to each other. And so you got this detective who's different from the one that talked to Eric the first time, going back and basically saying, hey, look, I saw that you was interviewed yesterday. You got right trying to force him to give information. It's not that he's trying to make this story straight. He keeps forcing it. He keeps telling it. So when you go Back to Police 101 and you're interviewing witnesses or even suspects. I mean, look at the way he's questioning Eric. And you can tell initially Eric is saying he's telling him, I didn't see any. I didn't see what you're saying I saw. But he wants him to tell me more because right at that point they need to solve it.
- [09:11]
Ken Lawson
But even though Eric's accounts are a little unpredictable, this is the best lead detectives have. So they continue to look deeper into Frank while still keeping their options open. And keeping options open isn't exactly a challenge. Every day they are getting a slew of tips calling out basically every person on the Big island who owns a pickup truck that even remotely resembles the ones witnesses say they saw at or near the scene. Add to that the names of anyone known to be sketchy in some way or another and as you can imagine, there are a lot of names. But in the mix are two individuals that investigators can't 27 year old Anthony Torres, who happens to be Frank's brother in law and 21 year old Roy Santos.
- [10:14]
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- [11:04]
Ken Lawson
Find out how@startwithhope.com brought to you by the National Council for Mental well Being, Shatterproof and the Ad Council. Between Frank Nasario, Anthony Torres and Roy Santos, detectives now have what they believe to be three viable suspects for different reasons. Frank Nasario checks a lot of investigators boxes. He matches the description of the man Eric Carlsmith claims to have seen near the accident. His family owns several Datsun pickup trucks, one of which has black primer paint with some aqua bluish green spots on it. And detectives receive several tips placing Frank in the area at the time. Then you have Anthony Torres who gets on investigators radar because he happens to be married to Frank's sister and lives with Frank so he has access to those same vehicles. The Nazarios are known to use. Also, several individuals call in tips claiming to have seen him in one of those pickup trucks. And lastly, there's Roy Santos. In early January, police receive a call from an individual who says they noticed a tan colored van parked near where Dana Ireland had initially been run over. And other witnesses reiterate this, saying they believe they saw Roy driving the tan colored van with two others on Christmas Eve near the scene.
- [12:36]
Lynn Kawano
It's a small island, it's a small state, and there's a lot of connections here. And I think people on the mainland don't really understand that. You know, I lived on the mainland for 18 years for my career, and there were times where you would meet someone and they would say, oh, I know this person.
- [12:51]
John Gonsalves
They.
- [12:51]
Lynn Kawano
But you have no connection there.
- [12:54]
Ken Lawson
That's Lynn Kawano, award winning chief investigative reporter for Hawaii News now, which, according to their website, is the state's dominant multimedia news organization with the largest digital news footprint in the islands. Lynn has been following and covering Dana's case for a long time.
- [13:16]
Lynn Kawano
I tell people my mom's from Hilo, and they ask, what school does she go to? You know, so I tell them, oh, she went to Hilo High. Well, one of the judges went to school with her. Here in Hawaii, it's about what high school you went to, not what college you go to. Everybody knows your high school. Every high school in the state is known for something, one reason or another, whereas in other states, that's not the case. I remember going to California once to visit relatives, and I asked what high school they went to, and 3,500 kids in that high school, you know, and then just five miles down the road, there's another high school with 3,500 kids. So that's one thing that people need to understand about Hawaii, is everybody is somehow connected. So a case like this, the Dana Ireland case, it rocks the entire island and it crosses the water.
- [14:08]
Ken Lawson
The same was true in my case. Perugia was a small town and violent crime was rare. So news of my roommate Meredith's murder shocked the city and drew international attention. And that put enormous pressure on the local authorities to solve the crime fast. But when investigators move too quickly, mistakes get made. By February of 1992, all three men are brought in for separate interviews and each claim the same thing. They are not responsible for the murder of Dana Ireland. But are they telling the truth? Are the witnesses? Investigators bring out the polygraph machine. Witness Eric Carlsmith's girlfriend Karina takes a polygraph test and passes. And since she does, the examiner decides Eric's test is unnecessary because of the fact they were together at the time of their observations and basically submitted statements that were similar in nature. Mark Evans, the friend Dana went to see after leaving the rental on Christmas Eve, also passes the polygraph. Suspects Frank Nasario and Anthony Torres refused to take the test. Then there's Roy Santos, Anthony and his mother, who owns the tan colored van. During both of their polygraphs, alleged deception is detected. Not a great look to detectives in the 1990s who place a lot of faith in the accuracy of the polygraph. Today, we know better. The polygraph cannot measure deception, but rather measures signs of physiological arousal. Your blood pressure and pulse, your breath rate, perspiration and skin conductivity. And there are many potential sources of stress and anxiety, aside from deception, that may alter someone's physiological responses. This is why polygraph results are typically inadmissible in court. Still, many laypeople and those in law enforcement continue to put unwarranted faith in the accuracy of the polygraph, which so often can send investigators down the wrong trail and derail justice, as we'll see in this case. After interviewing their three prime suspects, investigators also collect DNA samples from them. Well, from who they're able to. Roy and Anthony comply with the detectives requests, including a search and collection of samples from their vehicles. But Frank is not playing ball. So for the next few, investigators are in a bit of a waiting pattern as their samples are being tested. But by July 1992, any hope investigators have that the DNA samples will bring them and the community the answers they're craving is dashed. The FBI lab says that none of the DNA collected from the vehicles in question matches the DNA from the crime scene and from Dana's body. They've hit a dead end. The police keep an eye on Frank Nasario, Anthony Torres, and Roy Santos. But for almost a year, there are no major movements as detectives continue to hit wall after wall. All throughout this time, John and Louise Ireland, who are both approaching 70, continue to make the exhausting 4, 4, 800 mile commute between their Virginia home and Hawaii, hoping each time that maybe today will be the day they get justice for Dana.
- [17:57]
John Gonsalves
If they had a trial, I would certainly want to be there, and I would want to look at the person that did this in the eye. I hope they don't think they gonna get away with it, because soon or later, they will be caught. I have that much faith that they will be caught. I would like to see anybody who has any factual information about Dana's murder to please go to the police don't hide it, whether from fear or anything else. It's passing by these areas every day where this happened. And then also knowing that these men who did this are still walking around the street. As long as I live, though, I'm.
- [18:39]
Eric Carlsmith
Never gonna let it die.
- [18:41]
Ken Lawson
And locals are vocal about their own frustrations with the investigation.
- [18:47]
John Gonsalves
We want accountability here, and we have.
- [18:49]
Ken Lawson
Not gotten that from Police Chief Vieira. And we want him. Well, I should say I want him replaced.
- [18:54]
John Gonsalves
These detractors that are complaining about these unsolved cases, they make no mention of the fact that in 1991, we had five homicides and we solved them all. In fact, we solved six that year, one from the previous year.
- [19:08]
Ken Lawson
Dana's father, John, keeps the pressure on the investigators, praying they're onto something soon, but he's tired of waiting. The Irelands also pursue a lawsuit against the state and county for their delayed arrival to the scene to help Dana on Christmas Eve in 1991. They ultimately settle out of court, but no amount of money can make up for what the Ireland family lost. They don't want this. They want Dana, or at the very least, answers as to why they no longer have her. By 1994, two and a half years after Dana's murder, despite numerous leads, tons of interviews, no arrests have been made. But rumors continue to swirl on the Big Island. Indict Dana Ireland's murderer's bumper stickers are spotted on vehicles on the island as the pressure to find the killer has only intensified. Then that spring, the case takes a turn.
- [20:17]
Eric Carlsmith
A suspect has come forward to police.
- [20:19]
John Gonsalves
Saying he was in the car with two other men who ran down, raped, and left Ireland to die. We have them under surveillance. We're aware of their whereabouts.
- [20:29]
Ken Lawson
On May 23, 1994, lead detective Steven Guillermo gets a call from a man wanting to talk to him because he says that this guy, Frank Pauline Jr. And two brothers, Ian and Sean Schweitzer, are connected to the murder of Dana Ireland.
- [20:52]
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Nordstrom is here to help you dress in a way that feels totally you. With the best spring styles, from boho dresses and matching sets to must have bags and sneakers. Discover thousands of items from lots of your favorite brands like Mango Reformation, Veronica Beard, and Farm Rio. It's easy, too. With free shipping and returns in store order pickup and more shop today in stores and@nordstrom.com. substance use disorder and addiction is so isolating. And so, as a black woman in recovery, hope must be loud. It grows louder when you ask for help and you're vulnerable. It is the thread that lets you know that no matter what happens, you will be okay.
- [21:38]
Ken Lawson
When we learn the power of hope recovery is possible, Find out how@startwithhope.com brought to you by the National Council for Mental well Being, Shatterproof and the AD Council. This isn't the first time investigators have heard the name Frank Pauline in connection to Dana Ireland. He first got on the Hawaii Police Department's radar only three months after Dana's murder through an anonymous tip that claimed Frank was either involved or had information about the murder. And even though Frank's got a record, it doesn't seem like investigators are all that interested in him, even after receiving various calls about him throughout 1993. But this one is different. The caller is reaching out on behalf of a guy named John Gonsalves, who is Frank Pauline's half brother. And John himself is no stranger to police either. Investigators know a lot of the Goncalves Pauline family. They are frequent fliers of the Hawaii Police Department. Two of the Gonsovs brothers, Timmy and John, were both arrested for drug crimes a year prior. But when the caller explains why they're calling, they don't say John himself had anything to do with the murder of Dana Ireland. They say that John will be reaching out to the Hawaii Police Department soon because he is ready to come forward and provide information on the case, specifically about his half brother, 21 year old Frank Pauline Jr. After getting off the phone with this tipster, detectives wait, but not long. About 25 minutes later, John Gonzolves calls, ready to spill the beans. On the call, John tells police that about a week earlier, his brother Frank flat out admitted to him that he was there when Dana was murdered. He says he was riding in a pickup truck with two brothers, then 20 year old Ian Schweitzer and Ian's 16 year old brother Sean. And he watched with his own eyes as the Schweitzer brothers attacked Dana Ireland. So naturally, investigators want to talk to Frank to hear his side of the story. But when they do, he doesn't exactly sing. Like a canary, Frank plays a little coy with detectives, saying he isn't ready to speak quite yet. But detectives don't take no for an answer and they get him transported from the Halava Correctional Facility, where he was already serving a 10 year sentence for a separate crime, to the Attorney General's office for an interview with lead detective Guillermo. And when they sit down, Frank gives somewhat of a statement. Frank claims that on December 24, 1991, he was picked up by the Schweitzer brothers after they asked him if he wanted to do some drugs with them. But Frank also says he wasn't close friends with Ian and Sean, so it's unclear how this interaction could have even been provoked to begin with. But nevertheless, Frank says he decides to go with them anyways. But then, before going on, Frank does something weird. He decides he needs to, quote, sort out the details before giving Detective Guillermo any more info. Mostly because his memories are a little fuzzy, he says, because he was high on cocaine while he was with the Schweitzers. So Frank finishes up his interview by telling Detective Guillermo that he vaguely remembers Ian hitting a woman with a tire iron. And sometime after the attack, the clothing the brothers were wearing got thrown away somewhere. And then Frank says, I'll send you guys a more detailed statement of what happened that day soon. See ya. And what's even stranger is that the investigators are fine with that. They allow Frank the time to flesh out his story. This should have been a huge red flag for the reliability of his statement. Even so, this outlined play by play of what Frank claims happened the evening of December 24, 1990. 1991 never comes. But investigators do sit down with Frank several more times. Now, to understand anything about the next conversations investigators have with Frank. You need to understand the culture of the Big island, the one Lynn Kawano told us about when we first met the Gonzales.
- [26:37]
John Gonsalves
Right.
- [26:37]
Lynn Kawano
They are related to Frank Pauline. The Frank Pauline family grew up near the Schweitzer family. Everybody is somehow connected in Hawaii, and you're going to see them again, and you're going to be part of their lives again. At some point, you're going to cross.
- [26:53]
Ken Lawson
Paths, and you need to understand the dynamics between these families.
- [27:00]
Eric Carlsmith
So where our parents live, so is.
- [27:02]
Lynn Kawano
This side of the street the street.
- [27:04]
Eric Carlsmith
Timmy Gonzalez lived right here, dealing drugs.
- [27:08]
Ken Lawson
Raging fights, two, three o'clock in the.
- [27:10]
Eric Carlsmith
Morning, burning out, pounding his sounds, midnight. So he lived right across the street from my parents.
- [27:18]
John Gonsalves
I mean, John Gonzalez is the mastermind behind it all. I mean, it's. I hope you guys can, like, really research and dig and find out how much deals the prosecutor gave out.
- [27:32]
Eric Carlsmith
So Frank calls the police. And so when Frank initially tells his story, they really don't jump on it because they got these other suspects out there where the evidence is pointing to. When those Suspects take the 5th and don't want to give any statements and stuff like that, when that happens, they go back to Pauline. Right. We're all dried up over here and we're getting all these pressures to arrest somebody. What was that story Frankie was telling us a couple of weeks ago? And he wants things in exchange. Frank is just what he's known as, a liar.
- [28:04]
Ken Lawson
Right?
- [28:05]
Eric Carlsmith
But he's not stupid. You know, if I'm going give you a story, I want something in return. I mean, most inmates do.
- [28:12]
Ken Lawson
That's in chapter three, which you can listen to next week. Hey listeners, this is Toni Collette and I'm excited to introduce my new audio fiction series, Madame Ram. It tells the incredible dramatized true story of Georgia Frontier, a former showgirl who inherited the LA Rams after her husband's death and shook the NFL. Using astrology to guide her decisions, she became one of the most controversial and influential figures in modern sports. Follow Madame Ram on Apple Podcasts, Spotify or wherever you're listening now. Support for this podcast comes from Progressive, America's number one motorcycle insurer. Did you know? Riders who switch and save with Progressive save nearly $180 per year. That's a whole new pair of riding gloves and more. Quote today, Progressive Casualty Insurance Company and affiliates national average 12 month savings of $178 by new customers surveyed who saved with Progressive between October 2022 and September 2023. Potential savings will vary.