A (2:32)

And so in the way that you're studying the brain, how do you see stress reflected? Like, what are you tracking? What are you looking at? What are you trying to learn?

B (2:40)

Yeah, well, one of the things that we know is that humans have evolved to develop this very robust stress response. We have an entire neurobiological system that helps us to respond to stress and prepares us for danger. And so we're tracking things like how children's brains are responding when they feel stressed and how that relates to their coping.

A (3:01)

And how do you look at their response to stress at the brain level? Like, what do you actually do in the studies?

B (3:07)

Yeah, so we're using functional magnetic resonance imaging to look at brain regions that are really important for the stress response, particularly the amygdala. So when we detect stress in our brains, when we feel stress, it's really the amygdala that's signaling to the hypothalamus. That activates the HPA axis to release cortisol and help our body prepare for stress.

A (3:29)

Okay, so if somebody could look at a diagram of a brain in what you just said, related to the hypothalamic axis, which I'm not even sure I'm pronouncing correctly, even though I've heard you say it a number of times, like, what kind of structures are we actually talking about? Like, you know.

B (3:45)

Yeah. So the amygdala is a subcortical structure, so it's kind of deep within the brain. It's honestly pretty small, but it's very powerful. It really is in charge of detecting anything that's salient in our environment, anything that should get our attention to help us explore what emotions we might be feeling or to attend to things that might be important.

A (4:07)

So if we're very young, the thinking is that our amygdala and structures kind of around it are quite active in trying to figure out what stressors there are in the environment. I want you all to know that my counterpart here is looking at me with a little bit of a furrowed brow, because the issue is, I'm trying to.

B (4:25)

You could.

A (4:25)

You could neuro Explain to a neuroscientist my understanding of neuroscience concepts. I'm just trying to give it a sense, like, for any parent listening, what kind of things are they trying to help? Like, we're gonna get into practical strategies, but what are they trying to help their kids develop over time? Like, what do kids start with and then what's happening over development in the brain to help them to be able to Process stress better.

B (4:48)

Yeah. So we think about this. As you said, the amygdala is very active, particularly in young kids and adolescents. And there is so much learning that takes place during that time. That's a good thing in many ways, but it can be also associated with more difficulty responding to stress or regulating to stress. And so, really, in our role as parents or as people who are helping to support kids, we're trying to help them regulate the amygdala, to calm it down, to kind of put the brakes on and to really adapt to the challenges that they may face in life.

A (5:23)

And so are there brain areas that develop over the course of a kid's childhood that help them to regulate the amygdala downregulate in the face of stress? Like, what are we talking about here?

B (5:35)

Yeah. So the amygdala has really dense connections with regions of the prefrontal cortex, which is really important for regulating amygdala reactivity and emotion and stress. And so the prefrontal cortex undergoes really protracted maturation, which just means that it's developing for a very long time, well into young adulthood.

A (5:56)

Yeah.

B (5:56)

And so we think of it as, you know, when kids are really young, parents are in part serving as kind of their prefrontal cortex. We've actually shown that children, when they simply view a picture of their parent in that MRI scanner, they show lower amygdala reactivity.

A (6:14)

So not only would their amygdala be a bit calmer, but at the same time, if a parent is functioning as kind of a proxy prefrontal cortex for a while, what. When do we expect kids to be a little more independent in terms of their brain development and taking over for a parent?

B (6:30)

Yeah. So it really depends on a lot of context. So kids don't all of a sudden hit a certain age and, oh, wow, they woke up and they're able to regulate for themselves now. But through experiences, through practice, through, you know, experiences that they have at school, for example, where a parent isn't there the whole time, they develop more experience with regulating independently. And so we think about this transition as really taking place over the course of middle childhood, early adolescence. By late adolescence, you know, at the neuro level, adolescents can experience more downregulation of the amygdala independently in some situations, such are situations that are kind of more free of what we think of as, like, hot emotions or a lot of stress. But for them, it's still critical to have supportive caregivers. We see that at the level of the brain and also in Terms of having people that they can talk with who are trusted as they're learning to navigate stressful situations on their own.

A (7:29)

So as much as teenagers might be telling us they don't need us, they are still in many ways co regulating with trusted caregivers.

B (7:35)

Yeah, co regulating in new and different ways. Yes.

A (7:39)

So, okay, taking this from the neuroscience space and going to sort of like a philosophical space, I think that a lot of parents receive messages that their job at some level is to reduce all this stress for their kid. Is that a good thing? How much stress is the right amount?

B (7:59)

That's a hot question. I would say that the right amount of stress is a tolerable amount of stress. And it's amount of stress that a child can navigate with a supportive caregiver or supportive adult and the right coping tools. So something like, you know, plowing all of the barriers in a child's life out of their path is not gonna be helpful for that child, at least in the long. It may feel easier in the short term, but that really deprives kids of the opportunity to experience challenges and to get practice with coping in the presence of a supportive caregiver and then eventually that transition to coping more solo or with peer support.

A (8:43)

So if I just take the equation that you just broke down, it's that we need kids to practice on stress. We're trying not to make it too much stress, but some stress is. It sounds like good.

B (8:57)

Yeah, some stress is good. Certain types of stress are good. You know, I think I always think about it as not all stress is bad. And so I think it's important that we think about the types of stress that kids are exposed to. We would never want a child to be exposed to something that's traumatic or kind of this toxic stress that we hear a lot about.

A (9:16)

We're not locking them in a room with 5,000 snakes. We're trying to find real life, moderate stress experiences.

B (9:23)

Yes. And I love how you use that example of what is probably your worst night.

A (9:26)

Yes, exactly. I'm just saying, like, you know, we can do that.

B (9:29)

But I'm talking about when I say stress that can be good.

A (9:32)

Yeah.

B (9:32)

We're thinking about things like meeting a new friend, starting at a new camp, going to the first day of school. Things that can feel really tough for a kid in the moment, but that ultimately help them to grow and develop resilience.

A (9:45)

All of which our daughter has experienced in the last year of those stressors you just mentioned.

B (9:49)

Yes. Also timely goals in my own.

A (9:50)

Exactly. There was a reason why Those were present. I was thinking like what's a example of flooding? And it'd be like an Indiana Jones or mummy scene with the snakes and stuff like that. These are movies you've not, we've not watched together.

B (10:01)

But I like a good Indiana Jones.

A (10:03)

Right, There we go. Okay, good, good. We're fans of Harrison Ford here, but mostly in shrinking recently, but still highly recommend. Exactly. So, okay, going back to the stress piece and your equation. Some stress, good parental involvement in the caregiver's presence and then kind of the growth of coping skills. Right. So that's kind of our equation. So in terms of the coping skills that we're trying to teach kids, the ones that come from, you know, more behavioral interventions and kind of like the world of evidence based youth mental health, if you were to look at a kid, not necessarily just our children, you know, who obviously profess certain coping skills, and you were to say like that kid is demonstrating the kind of either relationship with their caregiver that I think is going to promote good stress coping or demonstrating certain skills. What are you looking for?

B (10:52)

Yeah, so ideally we want kids to be developing what I think of as a coping toolbox. So inherent is that in that is a variety of skills some kids may have a go to that really helps them. That's great if parents and kids have identified that. But often in life we're thrown different types of challenges, different types of stressors, and different coping skills are going to help at different times. And so things like having a variety of relaxation skills, deep breathing, mindfulness, building in mood boosting activities, things like physical activity, seeking out social support, all of these can be really helpful to practice, particularly in low stress times so that they're ready to go when more significant stress comes around.

A (11:37)

Yeah, I mean, I think that I hear a lot from little kids, especially when they come into a therapy session, that if I ask them how they're supposed to deal with a stressor, I think it goes to the second variable in your equation, which is they'll say find a trusted adult. And it's almost like a kid said that to me two days ago and I was like, that is a very formulaic phrase, like, you know, in terms of what the kid's looking for. And then when I asked the kid, what would you do if there isn't a trusted adult around? I got kind of a blank look. So I guess my question is like first, how does an adult become trusted and helpful in regulating? Like let's, let's talk about that for a second. Like if I want to be helpful in building emotion regulation circuitry for the youth in my life. What should I be doing?

B (12:23)

So I think of this as kind of like three buckets of what parents or trusted adults do. One is simply helping kids and teens to identify stress or to identify the feelings that they're having. It's really hard to manage stress if we don't know that it's there. We don't recognize that. So we think of this as kind of helping them to identify when that's even coming up or the situations in which they might feel stressed. The second is really a more active kind of teaching coping skills. Modeling, you know, parents and trusted adults how they regulate their own stress is something that kids are taking in constantly, simply through observation. And then the last one is this co regulation piece that we talked a little bit about where simply by being present, a supportive caregiver or adult can have this really very real neural and physical impact on the child's stress response system. And so this evolves over many years starting from when a child is simply born. We know that parents can really help to regulate physical distress early on in life. And through repeated experiences of that caregiver support, children learn very quickly that this is somebody that I can go to to feel safe or who will help me if I'm feeling stressed.

A (13:42)

And so we've got this notion that parents are helping kids to label the fact this is a stressful situation, be present with them in their stress and kind of co regulating. And then in terms of teaching skills, how do you envision parents helping kids to discover, for example, any number of the skills that you just mentioned, which we know to be the absolute bedrock of cbt. But I don't think are the kind of like, you know, things that just in general life, every generation of parents has taught their kids. Like how do parents and kids learn these skills together?

B (14:17)

Yes, I think through a few avenues. One is like resource. There are so many resources available that are amazing. Probably my go to is the Child Mind Institute's website.

A (14:28)

I thank you for blazing us in that way.

B (14:30)

I mean it's true, it's true. Such an amazing resource. I can search and I find anything I'm looking for. And it's such a hub really where parents can search for, you know, different challenges their family might be facing. Walden Wise is another one that I love. I helped them to develop an emotion navigator for supportive caregivers. Recently they have really interactive exercises that caregivers can do with kids for families who are experiencing really significant major stress like Trauma. Ntcsn. Nctsn. Stop that.

A (15:05)

National Child Traumatic Stress Network.

B (15:08)

Yeah.

A (15:09)

Yes. Okay. I like how I just got reinforced for knowing the abbreviation you used, but yes, thank you.

B (15:15)

Thanks for saving me in that moment

A (15:16)

I was working on. Right.

B (15:18)

Has amazing resources online that are evidence based. So there's a lot that parents can find online. And I think I mentioned this, like, just really practicing those in kind of low arousal, low stress times can be really helpful. That might sound a little silly, but it's like the ideal time to like practice deep breathing with their kid isn't when they're, you know, at a 10 and screaming at you and having a tantrum. It's when everybody's screaming around, everybody's on

A (15:43)

the ground, and there's no more dessert coming, and you're the ice cream shop. Yeah. Right. No, I mean, it makes sense. And the thing is, what I hear in what you highlighted, whether it's child mind, whether it's Walden wise, whether it's like, I think like Sesame Workshop has some great, like, videos that are like, young kid, young, young kid facing. It's that there's kid facing resources. Like, we can actually use the fact that our kids are interested in watching videos on stuff, you know, to our advantage. And then similarly there's like, you know, worksheets, pictures, things like that. And like, you know, in terms of the practice of such things, I think that like, we often think about this with our own kids. It's like there's, you know, I think our kids have gotten like tolerant of the fact that we just give awkward speeches sometimes about like, ways that we get through this stuff. Perhaps I am more the awkward speech, you know, champion, but like introducing a skill and just saying like, this is what I do or this is what I've seen some people do in this situation and then like asking the kid if they want to try it in the face of, say, like a minor stressor at some point.

B (16:45)

Yeah, I think definitely helping kids to, you know, know what's coming up for them. And sometimes that looks like very practical or didactic or long winded speeches in your case. I say that in a loving way. Thank you.

A (16:57)

Thank you for that love. Yes.

B (16:59)

That can also look like debriefing times that were really stressful. I think of an example that happened yesterday. I had our youngest at a birthday party and there was a time when she got so caught up in the inflatables and the bubbles and all the things that she was doing that she realized she completely had lost track of where I was I actually had a.

A (17:16)

Is this the see through beach ball that's now on our couch?

B (17:18)

It is.

A (17:19)

Okay, we've not got to discuss this. Okay. Great.

B (17:20)

With the glitter, I actually hadn't physically moved. Ironically, I was sitting at the exact chair with the other parents at the birthday party.

A (17:28)

Yes.

B (17:29)

She had gone off and forgotten she was having a blast. And all of a sudden, she found me and she said, you left me. Oh, sweetie, you know what? I was here the whole time. And, you know, in that moment, she was panicked. She was in survival mode. She was overwhelmed. She was creating a bit of chaos because she was yelling across the yard. But, you know, if I took a second, I could understand that. That felt really scary to her. And so as we were driving home, we talked about the party and how much fun she's had. And then I said, you know, sweetie, I just wanted to talk to you about one thing that came up. And I reminded her that I don't leave her places without telling her where I'm going. And I said, can you think of a time? She said, well, no, but I know you do it all the time. I said, well, sweetie, I want you to hear that. And I just gave her a little mini speech about how it may feel scary when she doesn't see me, but I want her to know in her heart that I'm there and she can rely on me to still be in that vicinity.

A (18:29)

So, folks, if you are hearing this, there's two skills that I think are particularly brilliant in my partner here related to this. And one of them is that I think we as parents, oftentimes, if there's been a stressful experience, your child is embarrassing the heck out of you at a birthday party, screaming, you left me. In front of all of our friends in the neighborhood.

B (18:48)

The psychologist and the parenting expert also,

A (18:50)

that exactly, like, they're. They're shaming us in the thing we're supposed to be the best at amongst our friends, even though we are not flying as blind as possible. You know, just. I always tell people, like, you know, I think you've heard me say this. Like, we parent on instinct. And thankfully, I think the two of us are fairly loving people. And so that instinct tends to be okay. But most of our psychologist training is the rebound. And this is where, like, you're on the rebound. You're sitting there, you're regulated. You're not stewing over the shame that has occurred, you know, related to our daughter embarrassing us. You're instead thinking, like, I want to process this with her for a Sec. And for those of you listening, any therapist who hears what Dylan just did, it's cognitive restructuring. She's asking her daughter for evidence to support the cognition that she had, which was, you left me. She's providing the kid with some also alternative evidence and then asking a kid to kind of reassess that thought. And like, I expect a kid our youngest age, you know, to say, like, you leave me at school and at camp, and it's like, great thought. Like, that's always with trusted adults.

B (19:53)

That's actually exactly what she said.

A (19:54)

Oh, my God. That's exactly what she said. Every day you leave it to school.

B (19:57)

Every day, I lovingly help you get on the bus every morning.

A (20:00)

Exactly. Also, we're really good at PR in the sense of rebranding what it is. We're not leaving her at school abandoned. We are lovingly supporting her in getting on the bus and then also leaving her with trusted adults, like Ms. Our Bus Driver or her teacher. Right. Fantastic. And then, you know, beyond that kind of saying, like, can we reassess this? And like, we know that a kid is gonna walk into a birthday party from that point forward and perhaps not have the same jump into conclusions of like, you left me, that kind of thing.

B (20:29)

Exactly. And that doesn't mean that it happens perfectly the next time.

A (20:32)

Right.

B (20:32)

But over time, we hope that she internalizes that.

A (20:35)

Right. I mean, I think we're living in the 9 and 6 age range right now, which I think is big. I think that, you know, for those listening with kids in the, you know, preschool to elementary school age range, it's possibly illustrative for us to talk about perhaps another example in this age range and then for us to move to, like, some things about helping teenagers with stress for a second. So just I have a few ideas. But top of mind, do you have any particular recent stressors for our children that you think of that might be illustrative of the points that we're talking about right now?

B (21:11)

I mean, I think, as you said earlier, one that recently came up was our kids starting at a new camp, which, you know, brings this past Monday. Right.

A (21:20)

Four days ago.

B (21:22)

So I was hoping to get our oldest ready for bed. And, you know, he was having just clearly a lot of thoughts about the next morning, which was going to be the first morning at this new camp. And it was things like, am I going to know anybody there? How am I going to know where to go? How am I going to know where the bathroom is? How am I going to know when it's time to Swim. I think for me, those are a lot of cognitive pieces. It's clearly a lot of thoughts we can read in that. There's probably some stress, some anxiety associated with this, but it's manifesting in this way where he's now really able to articulate the thoughts in his head, which is cool. And that opens up the some new opportunities. And so for me, and if I

A (22:03)

could just say one thing on this, you know, I think that this also fits in the zone of, like, I feel like, you know, to illuminate one part of our parenting, like, we know that this is a stressor that's in the level of kind of stressor you were talking about earlier. Like, camp is a particularly normal developmental, typical thing to have a kid be dropped off at. So, like, there might be moments where a kid brings up a stressor, and we say, like, it's okay to avoid that stressor for the moment or not have them engage. But we're both thinking, like, not about accommodating or not going to camp or saying that, you know, we'll have a day at home with grandma or a babysitter or something. We're instead thinking, like, how do we get him to a point where he can either be comfortable being uncomfortable going to this, or we can perhaps decrease some of the stress. Am I accurate in our Absolutely. Collective thinking on this?

B (22:52)

Yeah.

A (22:52)

Yeah.

B (22:52)

This fits squarely into that category of good stress. It doesn't feel great in the moment, necessarily, but it helps with exploring the world, growth, developing confidence. I mean, after doing a first day at camp and coming home and be like, yeah, I did that, that can feel really good for a kid.

A (23:09)

Totally.

B (23:10)

And of course, that's not where his mind was the night before.

A (23:12)

Right.

B (23:13)

So for me, I think, you know, there's so many ways that we can approach this as the trusted adults, as the parents. But in that moment, you know, I got the sense that he didn't really actually need me to work through all those thoughts with him. It was maybe just took a little bit to remind him that, like, there's a lot of other trusted adults there, like your counselors, who will make sure you get to your cabin and here's the bathroom, and all these things. Instead, what I tried to reframe for him was, you know, really what he was experiencing as very threatening. I tried to reframe as challenge. And there's a lot of research suggesting that this kind of stuff, simple reframe from stress as threat to stress as challenge, can be really helpful in actually down regulating the Stress response in ways that are adaptive and in helping us to prepare. And so the other thing that I don't think I'd mentioned is that, you know, he was having a lot of like butterflies in his stomach. And so I was able to say, you know, you're doing something really new tomorrow. You're going to a new camp, you're going to meet new people. It makes a lot of sense that your body is preparing you for this. That's what it's doing. Makes a lot of sense that your brain is helping you to think about what are you going to know when you get there. And I think that in itself can sometimes help to calm kids too.

A (24:26)

I love the point of view. And for our listeners, it's always wonderful to have a longer conversation with your partner and suddenly find out things that you've never heard them say, but sound like an awesome reframe that you will use yourself going forward. And in this sense, like that reframe of stress as threat to stress as challenge. I can see a kid then kind of allying with you and saying like, yeah, yeah, we're gonna attack this together. Like, we're gonna find strategies versus, like this is something to be eliminated. Like, I don't wanna have to face this particular thing. Not to mention, sounds like you were quite validating of what was going on.

B (24:59)

Yeah, I think the validation piece is important because kids need to be heard and we can teach them kind of practical tools to use.

A (25:08)

Right. Even as I believe at that same time as you were having this deep conversation, I was making sure that the right unicorn versus mermaid toothbrush was present and accounted for. On the other side of managing co regulating, you know, such stress also sounds timely. So just on kind of a final note, just looking across kind of developmental stages, I think that like one of the things that's true a lot of younger kids is that they're gonna enlist us in helping them manage stress and they're gonna look to us to kind of some of these strategies that you're highlighting. Whereas, you know, if we kind of fast forward into the teenage age range, there's a lot of focus, especially for teenagers, on convincing us they're independent, when in fact, if they're truly honest themselves, they know they kind of need us. And especially in teen research will say, I'd rather talk to trusted adults or caregivers about this stuff than even my friends when I face stressful situations. So I think like, as an example, just to get your kind of like immediate take on this, if we look at like the stressors of teenage life, like social kind of friends, inclusion, ostracization, you know, things like that. If we look at like romantic relationships and navigating those for the first time, pressures related to sex, drugs, alcohol, things like that, what do we look toward, like the kind of like, you know, developmental upskilling here for parents of how they help their kids to be regulated in the face of like those challenges. What do you think about.

B (26:38)

Yeah, I think scaffolding is so important. So it's not that as teens are facing stress that the caregiver necessarily disappears, that would also be problematic, but really that they're there to kind of co navigate these in a way. Teens, I think, oftentimes need somebody to bounce ideas off of or to share feelings with or to listen or to validate or to normalize. So that can look different. It's not that parents can't be kind of teaching these active coping skills. Those can still be so helpful. But you know, stress may present very differently in teens. It's not going to probably look as much like a tantrum, but it might look like withdrawal or moodiness. And so sometimes something as simple as saying like, hey, it sounds like you might have had a hard day. I'm here if you want to talk. And you know what? Often the teen might not be like, yeah, I'd love to sit down on the couch and chat for an hour, but that may kind of sit with them and maybe an hour later they say, yeah, it really sucked today. You know, we broke up or something like that. That gives you a little bit of this in to make yourself available.

A (27:46)

I think that, you know, as we see a teen open up like this can often cause like chaos in a parent or caregiver's brain because the teen has given them a small amount of information. And like, sometimes that piece of information is extremely stressful and causes us to become dysregulated at our worries about the cascade of that piece of. Or it can be something where we're so hungry, like we're amazed that they've disclosed that we're just kind of dying to hear more. How do you think parents can play it cool so that the teen feels a little bit more like they might disclose around these stresses?

B (28:17)

I'm thinking of a lot of do nots. I hear that you're asking me for what we should do.

A (28:21)

Yeah. But we can define them by their positive opposites. What's the do nots?

B (28:24)

Okay, well, do not badger with questions. Right. So sometimes less is more.

A (28:29)

Right. Don't appear Too thirsty, too.

B (28:31)

Yeah, exactly.

A (28:32)

Exactly.

B (28:32)

Don't appear too desperate for information. I think putting out there that, you know, you're present to talk, maybe like, opening up with one or two questions.

A (28:42)

Yeah.

B (28:43)

How'd that make you feel? Is always a good one.

A (28:46)

Well, I think this goes back to the fact that both of us in our early training did training in parent child interaction therapy. And one thing I hear you do frequently in talking to any, you know, kids that we come in contact with, you know, from, you know, preschool age all the way up teen years, is reflection. Can you talk about the power of reflection in helping somebody to feel they want to share?

B (29:06)

Yeah. So reflection is simply saying back to somebody. Not necessarily in the exact same words, but it's showing that you hear them. Yeah, I hear you. Saying that this has been really upsetting for you is a very simple reflection that can feel validating. It shows that I'm listening, that mere reflection can open up doors to a deeper conversation. And it's not that questions themselves are always bad, but sometimes we all adults, too, just need to know that somebody's listening and kind of gets what we're saying.

A (29:44)

Well, I think we, as a society kind of see questions as being driven by the questioner at some level. Just in the same way we're doing this podcast right now. It's like, I am driving the discussion through the questions. You may have thought at various points, like, oh, my gosh, Dave should have gone a different direction on this. That would be so much more useful. But, like, clearly I am, you know, driving the discussion toward topics I think are important for us to hit on related to your expertise in this area, where I just want the whole world to hear what I hear every day at home. That's me driving it. At the same time, you know, what the beauty of reflections are, is that people take the conversation in the direction they want. You say, I hear that that's really, you know, difficult for you, or, oh, you know, so you and your girlfriend broke up, and you kind of say that as a statement. And most people's response is sort of to say, yeah, and kind of continue talking. And you really put yourself in this place of being a sounding board, not seeming like you have a particular solution or something you've got to do, or saying like, oh, my God, you got to get her back, or, you know, I can't believe you're talking to me about this, like, you're never hanging out with Brian again, like, that kind of thing. And I think that it allows parents to kind of be in that space. And then I always say to parents that are working with me, like, this is a moment where you take in the information. You say, thanks so much for sharing it with me. And then you ask the teen if they'd like any help. If they wouldn't like help, then you call me on the back end and say, okay, but here are the three things that, like, really concerned me that I wanted to expound on. And, you know, now we can kind of talk about this.

B (31:10)

Yeah. And I think what you have described highlights so nicely, kind of this distinction between helping somebody feel heard, letting them know you're there, and that you are there to help problem solve, but not immediately jumping into this problem solving mode. And the reality is that especially often with the very complicated stressors that teens are facing, parents aren't always gonna be able to fix things. And some of this dance is really helping teens to modeling how does one regulate? How does one move through some of the challenges of life, especially interpersonal challenges that can be really tricky. So problem solving is good, but it's good in combination with these other factors. And really, when it's happening in parallel, we don't want to be solving all the problems for our kids or else they'll come out of childhood knowing how to have other people fix their problems, but not knowing how to think like a problem solver.

A (32:09)

It relates to your snowplow comment from earlier.

B (32:11)

Yeah.

A (32:11)

We don't want parents plowing out or bulldozing out all the issues or hearing something from their kid and always making a call on their behalf. Like, there are a lot of things that are good stress, right?

B (32:22)

Yeah, exactly.

A (32:23)

So this has been a real treat for me because for those of you who have been listening since the beginning and know that Dylan and I are married and raising kids together, you know, I think one of the things I think about is when we at the Child Mind Institute have a podcast talking about coping with stress. And I think to myself, who of all the people in or outside of the Child Mind Institute, could I talk to about this? I witness each day Dr. G's application of the very principles that she's talking about here and thought, why not bring a world renowned expert in neuroscience and stress on the podcast who also happens to not be able to refuse the invitation because we live in the same home. So, you know, that works out. So thank you for being here, Dr.

B (33:02)

G. Thank you for having me. This was very fun.

A (33:04)

Yes. And for those of you who are interested in any of the resources that we mentioned, some of the organizations that put together kind of kid facing coping resources. Please feel free to consult the show notes and at the same time you can Google Dr. Dylan G. And find all kinds of things about her research and findings and formulations of stress as she discussed here. So yeah, thanks.

B (33:27)

Thank you.