Gladiators, real housewives and the pull of reality TV

Summary

Podcast Summary: Throughline – “Gladiators, Real Housewives, and the Pull of Reality TV”

Host: Rund Abdelfattah and Ramtin Arablouei (NPR)
Date: April 30, 2026

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Episode Overview

This episode of Throughline examines the enduring allure and cultural impact of reality television. Drawing parallels from ancient gladiator games to modern shows like “The Real Housewives,” “Survivor,” and “FBOY Island,” the hosts explore how reality TV shapes — and is shaped by — society’s anxieties, dreams, politics, and ideas of love and connection.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Line Between Reality and Performance

• The episode opens juxtaposing the Truman Show's search for authenticity with the over-the-top drama of “FBOY Island.”
  • “No scripts, no cue cards. It isn’t always Shakespeare, but it’s genuine. It’s a life.” (Truman Show clip, 00:35)
• Rund Abdelfattah and casting director Goloka Bolte discuss how reality TV walks the fine line between genuine moments and heavy editing:
  • “You are seeing reality for the most part, that’s been edited together with suspenseful music to...make it feel more exciting and dramatic. If you watched the unedited footage all the way through, it would be quite boring.” – Goloka Bolte (03:33)

2. Reality TV’s Roots: The Rage Machine

(Part 1: Starts 09:00)

• Reality TV’s appetite for conflict and spectacle is compared to Roman gladiator games and the catharsis they offered:
  • “Gladiators did something to kind of keep the peace, right? ...Similar emotions, you know, that people might feel in terms of that expression of anger, you know, watching two Real Housewives scream at each other.” (10:10)
• The “rage machine” concept is explored — how TV (news included) cycles fear, outrage, and drama to keep viewers hooked:
  • “You make them really scared. You make them really angry…The rage machine is such a great term for it. It’s just churning fear, rage.” (24:20)
• Early psychological experiments (Milgram, Stanford Prison) are described as foundational to reality TV’s fascination with human behavior under pressure:
  • “The idea is that you’re going to record people being people and placing them in very sort of strange, bizarre situations...that’s going to teach us something about what makes people tick.” – Raquel Gates (20:05)

3. Survivor and the Birth of Modern Reality TV

• “Survivor” is positioned as a pivotal show in 2000, reflecting anxieties around Y2K and social competition:
  • “Survivor is a morality play…people building a society on an island…” – Mark Burnett (12:07)
• Former contestant Dr. J’tia Hart reflects on her experience:
  • “I absolutely had a holy fucking shit moment…I felt kind of like a cog in the machine…if I’m gonna go home, I’m gonna go out with a bang.” – Dr. J’tia Hart (15:03)
• Raquel Gates notes how “Survivor” mirrors broader societal dynamics, including exclusion and bias:
  • “It feels like the fantasy of Survivor is that you have this, like, pre civilization society that magically conforms to everything you already sort of believe about society…but it naturalizes it so it’s not like producer interference. It’s not sexism. It just so happens to be that, you know, young dudes dominate the game over and over and over.” (15:49)

4. The American Dream: Kayfabe, Power, & Celebrity

(Part 2: Starts 28:09)

• The concept of “kayfabe” from pro wrestling (staying “in character”) is explored as a metaphor for both reality TV and modern politics:
  • “What kayfabe is, is maintaining your character once you’re outside of the ring…So there’s always this kind of question, right, about what is performance and what’s reality." (29:03)
• Donald Trump’s persona is dissected as a product of reality TV logic — where wealth, bravado, and performance become synonymous with leadership:
  • “He is the American dream…Many assumed that if he’s a wealthy, successful, powerful businessman…he must also be really good at everything else.” (31:17; 35:13)
• Reality TV, especially in the 2000s, is tied to economic downturns and the “self-branding” ethos of social media (i.e. Kardashians, The Apprentice):
  • “The Writers Guild of America went out on strike, and we took our…And a writer strike in 2007 led to a boom in new, cheaper to make unscripted reality TV shows.” (36:44-36:54)
  • “Kim came into her prime exactly as social media was becoming the way of the world. That’s lightning in a bottle timing.” – Jeff Jenkins (37:05)
• The episode asks: Who gets to chase or live the American dream? What’s the cost of that dream when everyone becomes content?
  • “The facts bear out that there is very limited economic mobility in our country. But because of American exceptionalism, individualism…people really believe that they can.” (41:43)

5. Love in the Age of Reality TV

(Part 3: Starts 45:20)

• The “soulmate” myth is critiqued: Once the purview of literature and movies, reality TV now stages it as a contest.
  • “The Bachelor…fused reality with that fantasy and made us believe we could have it, too.” (46:23)
• The structure of dating shows is likened to dating apps, gamification, and the fleeting nature of modern connections:
  • “It’s almost like an enactment, right. Of the dating apps. It’s just like kind of swipe…there’s a lot more physicality but just going through partners.” (49:05)
• Newer dating reality shows (e.g. “Married At First Sight,” “90 Day Fiancé”) focus on relationship dynamics beyond just romance, reflecting social cynicism and changing expectations:
  • “Shows about love are acknowledging more and more just how hard it is not only to find human connection, but to sustain it.” (52:05)
  • “Media has always been a site of fantasy projection…reality television serves that purpose. Really? Really.” – Raquel Gates (52:21)

6. Reflection: Reality TV as Refraction, Not Mirror

• The closing argument is that reality TV doesn’t just reflect society but refracts it, distorting and highlighting aspects we’re drawn to — conflict, hope, loneliness, drama:
  • “I actually think [reality TV] is a refraction of reality. It’s taking things…skewing them and sometimes presenting them back to us in ways that are perfectly aligned with reality and in some ways…skewed…to make us question what we thought we knew about reality.” – Raquel Gates (53:10)
• The final scene from The Truman Show caps the episode, questioning if we can ever truly escape the worlds constructed for us:
  • “You can’t leave, Truman. You belong here. Say something. Say something, God damn it. You’re on television. You’re live to the whole world.” (53:48)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Authenticity:
  • “No scripts, no cue cards. It isn’t always Shakespeare, but it’s genuine. It’s a life.” (Truman Show, 00:35)
• On Editing Reality:
  • "It’s reality...that’s been edited together...If you watched the unedited footage all the way through, it would be quite boring." – Goloka Bolte (03:33)
• On the Rage Machine:
  • "You make them really scared. You make them really angry...The rage machine is such a great term for it." (24:20)
• On Social Media and Branding:
  • “Everybody has a smartphone. Everybody has a camera on them at all times. There’s this intense expectation...it’s going to look absolutely perfect. Perfect and beautiful, and there’s no end. Just keep scrolling..." (43:43)
• On Loneliness and Connection:
  • “Do you think that people today in our modern world are more lonely than they’ve ever been?” – Rund
  • “I do.” (43:47)
• On Reality TV and Realness:
  • “But also, I think the real always seeps out.” – Raquel Gates (47:09)
• On the Illusion of Narrative:
  • “Life is a series of events that don’t make narrative sense. There aren’t neat conclusions. So reality television provides that for us.” (53:02)
• On Reality as Refraction:
  • “I actually think it’s a refraction of reality...skewed in such a way that make us question what we thought we knew about reality.” – Raquel Gates (53:10)

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Important Timestamps

| Timestamp | Segment/Topic | | --------- | ------------- | | 00:35 | Opening, Truman Show & “FBOY Island” | | 03:23 | Goloka Bolte on casting and editing reality TV | | 09:00 | Part 1: The Rage Machine | | 12:07 | Mark Burnett on “Survivor” as morality play | | 15:03 | Dr. J’tia Hart on representation and bias in “Survivor” | | 20:05 | Psychological roots: Milgram, Stanford Prison | | 24:20 | Sensational news & the birth of the “rage machine” | | 28:09 | Part 2: The American Dream, Kayfabe, Trump | | 31:17 | Trump, branding, and the American Dream | | 36:44 | Writers’ strike, new reality TV boom, Kardashians | | 43:43 | Social media, personal branding, and loneliness | | 45:20 | Part 3: Love and Loneliness in Reality TV | | 49:05 | Dating apps and gamification of love | | 52:05 | Breaking down the love fantasy, relationship realities | | 53:10 | Reality TV as “refraction” of reality, not a mirror | | 53:48 | Closing: “The Truman Show” ending, existential questions |

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Conclusion: The World as Reality TV

Through ancient history, psychology, media evolution, and contemporary dating, this episode argues that “reality” is always partially constructed, but our emotional investment is very real. Reality TV both responds to and shapes our worldviews about conflict, success, love, and truth. As digital lives become ever more public and curated, the question lingers: are we living, performing, or both — and does it really matter if the feelings are genuine?

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For additional insight or to submit episode questions, email [e-mail] or leave a voicemail at 872-588-8805.

Transcript

[Rund Abdelfattah]

Support for this podcast and the following message come from Allianz Travel Insurance. Your flight booked. Your lungs suddenly battling bronchitis. Travel insurance helps protect your travel budget so you can book again once you feel better. Learn [e-mail] A quick warning. This episode contains some vulgar langu.

[Narrator/Host (possibly Ramtin Adabloui or another main host)]

We've become bored with watching actors give us phony emotions. We're tired of pyrotechnics and special effects. While the world he inhabits is, in some respects, counterfeit, there's nothing fake about Truman himself. No scripts, no cue cards. It isn't always Shakespeare, but it's genuine. It's a life. Fade the music up. 3, 2, 1. Quick cut to FBOY Island.

[Expert/Guest Commentator (e.g., Raquel Gates or other academics/experts)]

Women have been forced to tolerate the manipulative douchebaggery of Fboys for far too long.

[Rund Abdelfattah]

And that's why we're here.

[Expert/Guest Commentator (e.g., Raquel Gates or other academics/experts)]

Welcome to FBOY Island.

[Narrator/Host (possibly Ramtin Adabloui or another main host)]

Okay, fade to click down, ladies.

[Rund Abdelfattah]

The three of you are hoping to find love. If you're thinking, what is going on? Yeah, that was intentional. FBOY Island, a reality TV show set on, you guessed it, an island, tasked three women with trying to find the real nice guys among a group of mostly self proclaimed F boys or players. And the clip we opened with is from the fictional movie the Truman show, in which a guy unknowingly grows up in a world completely manufactured for tv. Two very different setups, same basic question, what's real and what isn't? Why are we telling you all this? Well, you'll have to keep listening to find out. Nothing like a good cliffhanger, am I right?

[Narrator/Host (possibly Ramtin Adabloui or another main host)]

Cue guest tape.

[Rund Abdelfattah]

My name's Goloka Bolte. I am a reality TV casting director. For the last 20. We spent over an hour getting to know Goloka before casting her for this episode and another hour interviewing her. But like any good reality show, you'll only hear the parts that make the story pop. I started out in the grand old days of reality TV music in something playful. My first sort of significant project that I worked on was season two of Joe Millionaire. And since then, you know, I've gone on to cast everything from MasterChef to work on let's Make a Deal to RuPaul's Drag Race to Fboy island to Million Dollar Listing to the Real Housewives of New Jersey. It kind of runs the gamut. I absolutely love casting FY Island. So during the casting process, I mean, we are asking people about the most sort of rogue, rascally things they've ever done and trying to figure out what's their story? What's their motivation for being there?

[Narrator/Host (possibly Ramtin Adabloui or another main host)]

Yo, I'm just here to clap. Like, you look good, I look good. We look good together. I love to te. I love the flirt. I know every which way to get them. I know physical touch, mental gains, all that.

[Rund Abdelfattah]

They're like, this is just between us, right? And I'm like, yeah, me and the camera and the producers and the network executives. Yeah, just between us. I think that one of the things that people just need to remember is that, you know, you are seeing reality for the most part, that's been edited together with, you know, suspenseful music to kind of create the mood and anticipation for the next scene and put it in a certain order for context and to make it feel more exciting and more dramatic. If you watched the unedited footage all the way through, it would be quite boring.

[Narrator/Host (possibly Ramtin Adabloui or another main host)]

Cue suspenseful music from the top. Bring in a clip from the Truman Show. Something that really gets the listener invested. We accept the reality of the world with which we're presented. It's as simple as that.

[Sponsor/Advertisement Voice]

And nc

[Rund Abdelfattah]

we accept the reality of the world with which we're presented. On tv, that presentation feels obvious now. Casting, editing, dramatic music posts. It's all part of the deal. And when we first released this episode, at the height of the COVID 19 pandemic, reality TV was having a moment. Home makeovers, dramatic Real housewives cooking competitions, searches for love on an island in all different languages all over the world. You know, I know for myself, my own business, I couldn't even keep up with the demand for work. If you're doing a competition show, you're filming away. You're living in a hotel, the crew's living there, you're on location. So we're already filming in a bubble. It was so much more cost effective. And our budgets are not as big as scripted shows. But today, reality reality TV seems to be trying to keep up with the chaos of the world. I mean, they even made a real life squid game. And it's getting harder to keep up, especially when so much of our lives feel manufactured. The news we watch, the feeds we scroll, the WhatsApp group chats, the Facebook mom groups. Okay, I'm spiraling, but you get where I'm going with this. We are constantly trying to figure out what's true, what's not, what's AI generated, what is reality. As someone who's watched their fair share of reality tv, it feels like we're watching that same playbook play out everywhere we look in relationships, in the media, in politics, we literally elected a reality TV star as president twice. So in this episode of Throughline from npr, we're going to use reality TV to understand three parts of modern life that already feel a lot like shows. Love, the American Dream and the Rage Machine.

[Narrator/Host (possibly Ramtin Adabloui or another main host)]

The winner of Survivor, Cook island, the second singer unmasking.

[Expert/Guest Commentator (e.g., Raquel Gates or other academics/experts)]

Oh, my gosh.

[Narrator/Host (possibly Ramtin Adabloui or another main host)]

Is the winner of the Great British Bake off is. I'll read the last vote.

[Guest Interviewee or Additional Narrator]

Just say my name.

[Expert/Guest Commentator (e.g., Raquel Gates or other academics/experts)]

Just say my name.

[Narrator/Host (possibly Ramtin Adabloui or another main host)]

You accept this rose?

[Rund Abdelfattah]

Absolutely.

[Narrator/Host (possibly Ramtin Adabloui or another main host)]

You're fired.

[Guest Interviewee or Additional Narrator]

Hi, this is Dottie in Wiesbaden, Germany,

[Narrator/Host (possibly Ramtin Adabloui or another main host)]

originally from Kansas City.

[Guest Interviewee or Additional Narrator]

And you're listening to Throughline at npr.

[Rund Abdelfattah]

Hey, Rund here. We want to try something new on the show, and we need your help. Have you ever had a question about something in the headlines or wondered why something is the way it is? It could be anything from big geopolitical questions to kind of weird ones like how did bananas become such a big part of our diet in the US we already have an episode about that one. By the way, if you really are wondering, we would love to hear your questions. Send them to us at throughlinepr.org or call 872-588-8805 and leave a voicemail. And if you're open to us giving you a call back, leave your number, too. We might feature your idea in an upcoming episode. Thank you.

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[Expert/Guest Commentator (e.g., Raquel Gates or other academics/experts)]

Part 1 the Rage Machine.

[Guest Interviewee or Additional Narrator]

Imagine you're a peasant in the time of the Roman Empire, you might be feeling some anger towards the people in the upper classes because you want what they have, and there's no way you're ever going to get that. So you know that you are going to live and die as you are. Gladiators did something to kind of keep the peace, right? It appeased people. Here's somebody you can look down on. You know, you can feel a little bit better about yourself, a little bit less angry. Similar emotions, you know, that people might feel in terms of that expression of anger, you know, watching two real housewives scream at each other. And I mean, modern day cable news. Ray does this as well.

[Narrator/Host (possibly Ramtin Adabloui or another main host)]

Major beef inside a golden corral. Dozens of customers get into a brawl all over a piece of meat.

[Guest Interviewee or Additional Narrator]

We use entertainment to cope with modern life. People have always done that. We're looking for somewhat of an escape in order to keep viewers. The boundaries keep being pushed more and more and more. You know, I've never seen an animal

[Expert/Guest Commentator (e.g., Raquel Gates or other academics/experts)]

that violent that close up before.

[Guest Interviewee or Additional Narrator]

I mean, I really felt scared for my life. So now our appetite for those types of pseudo blood sports has really increased.

[Narrator/Host (possibly Ramtin Adabloui or another main host)]

I'm Joe Rogan and this is Fear Factor. The stunts you're about to see are extremely dangerous and should not be attempted by anyone, anywhere, anytime.

[Guest Interviewee or Additional Narrator]

And I think often without a second thought, oh, this looks funny, this looks interesting. But then it can go over into the cruel. My name is Dr. Janice Gravani. I am a licensed clinical psychologist. I think it was really my interest in anxiety that led to my interest in reality tv. Tv.

[Expert/Guest Commentator (e.g., Raquel Gates or other academics/experts)]

Everyone here is waiting for the same thing. The stroke of midnight. Happy New Year 2000.

[Narrator/Host (possibly Ramtin Adabloui or another main host)]

This is survival.

[Rund Abdelfattah]

At the dawn of a new millennium. Audiences flocked to theaters to watch a new movie called Gladiator, set in an era when real life bloodsports were entertainment. And a reality show debuted on American television that launched the pseudo bloodsport era of reality tv. It was called Survivor.

[Narrator/Host (possibly Ramtin Adabloui or another main host)]

Bring in Survivor executive producer Mark Burnett. Survivor is a morality play. You are asking the people that you have ousted to give you the gift of a million dollars. We need to mention this tape comes from a 2010 interview with Mark Burnett and the Television Academy Foundation. What immediately appealed to me was the idea of people building a society on Ireland, a la Swiss family Robinson, Robinson Crusoe, Lord of the Flies.

[Rund Abdelfattah]

If you've never seen the show, here's the basic premise. You're on an island with a bunch of people you've never met before, divided up into competing tribes, and you have to find a way to survive. Sure, there's also a TV crew there, but you're still pretty much on your own trying to build shelter, start a fire, find food. All you're given are the bare essentials, a few tools and a bag of rice in case your search for coconuts and fish comes up short. The tribes compete in physical challenges and the losing tribe goes to Tribal Council where one person is voted off by everybody else. When just a couple people are left, everyone who got voted off chooses a winner who gets $1 million.

[Expert/Guest Commentator (e.g., Raquel Gates or other academics/experts)]

I always think about the importance of the year 2000 and Y2K and technophobia as being really sort of indelible to Survivor.

[Narrator/Host (possibly Ramtin Adabloui or another main host)]

I don't know that it's necessarily going to be a computer problem. I think it's going to be a social and people problem.

[Expert/Guest Commentator (e.g., Raquel Gates or other academics/experts)]

There is a lot of social anxiety about the fast and the rapidly increasing pace of technology and how that is impacting everyday life.

[Narrator/Host (possibly Ramtin Adabloui or another main host)]

Have we become so dependent on computers that our society is at risk if they fail?

[Expert/Guest Commentator (e.g., Raquel Gates or other academics/experts)]

My name is Raquel Gates. I am an associate professor of film and media studies at Columbia University. I find it very fitting that then we get this show which is all about, like, a return to nature and, like, can you build a fire? I came from, you know, a working class neighborhood in Miami, you know, so I'm like, how bad could it be? To quote the Lion King, I laugh in the face of danger. I am Dr. Jtia Hart. I am a nuclear engineer. I was on Survivor season 28.

[Narrator/Host (possibly Ramtin Adabloui or another main host)]

We're doing three tribes this year and they're divided based on qualities that it takes to win this game.

[Guest Interviewee or Additional Narrator]

Brains.

[Expert/Guest Commentator (e.g., Raquel Gates or other academics/experts)]

I don't know the damn name.

[Narrator/Host (possibly Ramtin Adabloui or another main host)]

Beauty. Brains. And brawn.

[Expert/Guest Commentator (e.g., Raquel Gates or other academics/experts)]

Brains. Broody Brawn. I'll do that one time again just because I'm sure I messed it up. I absolutely had a holy fucking shit moment. I'm hungry. Actually, the hunger was not the worst part. It was that I felt like nobody was being nice to me. Not only the people I was playing with, but I felt like the crew hated me. You know, like when you walk into the cafeteria and you sit at a table and you just feel like people are just barely fucking tolerating you. No, no, no. Flat side.

[Narrator/Host (possibly Ramtin Adabloui or another main host)]

Yep, like that.

[Expert/Guest Commentator (e.g., Raquel Gates or other academics/experts)]

As a black woman in engineering, I've been at the table a lot.

[Narrator/Host (possibly Ramtin Adabloui or another main host)]

She has the decisiveness of a leader. She has the bossiness for sure, but she doesn't exactly have it all here.

[Expert/Guest Commentator (e.g., Raquel Gates or other academics/experts)]

I felt kind of like a cog in the machine. It feels like the fantasy of Survivor is that you have this, like, pre civilization society that magically conforms to everything you already sort of believe about society, but it naturalizes it so it's not like producer interference. It's not sexism. It just so happens to be that, you know, young dudes dominate the game over and over and over. In my tribe, I was the youngest woman, and that, to me is a position of weakness in any society. It's a show where you're supposed to vote people off, right? You're supposed to form a bond, a connection, and a very real bonding. Connection is shared history and shared experience. It's very easy to other people. In my season, three black people, there were only four. Three black people went out in a row. And I was like, if I'm gonna go home, I'm gonna go out with a bang. And then you left the mental patient alone and I went crazy.

[Narrator/Host (possibly Ramtin Adabloui or another main host)]

You think listeners will get the jatiyas dumping her tribe's only bag of rice into the fire as an act of revenge?

[Expert/Guest Commentator (e.g., Raquel Gates or other academics/experts)]

That's what happens when you leave crazy people alone. It's entertaining. It's tv, so I don't feel bad for it. I wish I'd have been more careful. Talking about mental health. I think part of it was I was feeling like they were treating me like something was wrong with me. Everything that you saw on the TV show happened, but there were a lot more things that happened that you did not see that they have to boil down. And I understand they had to make a character. They had to make a story.

[Narrator/Host (possibly Ramtin Adabloui or another main host)]

Fourth person voted out of Survivor Cagayan, Shatea. Need to bring me your torch.

[Expert/Guest Commentator (e.g., Raquel Gates or other academics/experts)]

Good luck, you guys.

[Narrator/Host (possibly Ramtin Adabloui or another main host)]

When you're eliminated and the minute your torch is extinguished, the music shifts. It goes to cobalt blue lighting, which is where they're walking off into the jungle and disappearing. It's a blue, cold death color. Figuratively, they're dying. And then there's a moment of vacuum, emotional vacuum.

[Expert/Guest Commentator (e.g., Raquel Gates or other academics/experts)]

Reality television is really predicated on sort of playing on our emotions. The emotional connection is the primary goal of reality television as opposed to some other forms of media.

[Guest Interviewee or Additional Narrator]

What keeps people coming back to reality television is there. There has to be some source of conflict and tension, so creating anxiety. Actually, what I'd love to do is take a little trip through psychological history. So let's go back.

[Narrator/Host (possibly Ramtin Adabloui or another main host)]

Hiroshima, seen from the air after the atomic bomb blast that virtually erased this city from the earth. As far as the eye can see, stretch scenes of desolation and ruin.

[Expert/Guest Commentator (e.g., Raquel Gates or other academics/experts)]

Coming out of World War II, where, you know, not just this country, but the world had witnessed some of the most awful atrocities that one can think of.

[Narrator/Host (possibly Ramtin Adabloui or another main host)]

I still have that smell of burning bodies, you know, in my nose. It smells terrible.

[Guest Interviewee or Additional Narrator]

You know, people were still grappling with, with questions about the Holocaust.

[Narrator/Host (possibly Ramtin Adabloui or another main host)]

Ashes, all the ashes.

[Expert/Guest Commentator (e.g., Raquel Gates or other academics/experts)]

There was a real desire, especially in this country, to sort of understand, like what makes people do the things that they do.

[Guest Interviewee or Additional Narrator]

Could ordinary people do evil?

[Narrator/Host (possibly Ramtin Adabloui or another main host)]

It is May 1962. An experiment is being conducted in the Elegant Interaction Laboratory at Yale University.

[Expert/Guest Commentator (e.g., Raquel Gates or other academics/experts)]

The idea is that you're going to record people being people and placing them in very sort of strange, bizarre situations.

[Narrator/Host (possibly Ramtin Adabloui or another main host)]

The subjects are 40 males between the ages of 20 and 50 residing in the greater New Haven area.

[Expert/Guest Commentator (e.g., Raquel Gates or other academics/experts)]

And that's going to teach us something about what makes people tick.

[Guest Interviewee or Additional Narrator]

The Stanford Prison experiment, the Milgram experiments.

[Narrator/Host (possibly Ramtin Adabloui or another main host)]

Two thirds of volunteers were prepared to administer a potentially fatal electric shock when in courage to do so by what they perceived as a legitimate authority figure. In this case a man in a white coat. 375 volts. I think something's happened to that fall in there.

[Sponsor/Advertisement Voice]

Milgram's findings horrified America.

[Narrator/Host (possibly Ramtin Adabloui or another main host)]

They showed that decent American citizens were as capable of committing acts against their conscience as the Germans had been under the Nazis.

[Rund Abdelfattah]

There's disagreement around the interpretations of these experiments.

[Expert/Guest Commentator (e.g., Raquel Gates or other academics/experts)]

But knowing that that's in some ways foundational to what eventually becomes reality television, I think is really helpful because even if it gets diluted or, you know, warped, there's always this idea of we're going to help you understand why people do the things that they do or how people live.

[Narrator/Host (possibly Ramtin Adabloui or another main host)]

Let's quickly fast forward through some early reality TV. Let's start with the British documentary 7 Up. World in Action enters the struggling, changing world of the seven year old. During the next hour you will see the first in a series of programs entitled An American Family. We've brought these 20 children together for the very first time. For seven months from May 30, 1971 to January 1, 1972, the family was filmed as they went about their daily routine. But you always, you're kind of critical of yourself when you see yourself on tv. There is no question that the presence of our camera crews and their equipment had an effect on the louds.

[Guest Interviewee or Additional Narrator]

Viewing yourself, you think, oh God, say something intelligent.

[Narrator/Host (possibly Ramtin Adabloui or another main host)]

Just don't sit there. Hi, my name is Peter Zamora. I came from Cuba in 1980. This is the true story. I'm an HAB AIDS educator. True story.

[Expert/Guest Commentator (e.g., Raquel Gates or other academics/experts)]

Seven strangers picked to live in a

[Narrator/Host (possibly Ramtin Adabloui or another main host)]

loft and have their lives taped to find out what happens what when people stop Being polite. Could you get the phone and start getting real? The real world. The revolution begins here. Standby. Ready three. Take three. My cure three. Start to slow. Zoom in a little bit. Take three.

[Expert/Guest Commentator (e.g., Raquel Gates or other academics/experts)]

When you get to the 90s, we have the proliferation of cable channels, MSNBC,

[Narrator/Host (possibly Ramtin Adabloui or another main host)]

Fox News, now the news. You need to get your day started.

[Expert/Guest Commentator (e.g., Raquel Gates or other academics/experts)]

We've sort of moved out of the period of broadcasting, you know, like sort of back in the day when there were only four networks and suddenly, you know, there's tons of networks and networks have, have to figure out how they keep people's attention.

[Narrator/Host (possibly Ramtin Adabloui or another main host)]

No justice, no peace is what they're chanting.

[Expert/Guest Commentator (e.g., Raquel Gates or other academics/experts)]

The news media itself becomes incredibly sensational.

[Narrator/Host (possibly Ramtin Adabloui or another main host)]

If it seemed like war yesterday, the reinforcements showed up tonight.

[Expert/Guest Commentator (e.g., Raquel Gates or other academics/experts)]

A truck bomb exploded in front of

[Rund Abdelfattah]

a government building in Oklahoma City.

[Narrator/Host (possibly Ramtin Adabloui or another main host)]

We've got some breaking news. The space shuttle Columbia was going over North Texas. Details still emerging of the accident in Paris at around midnight involving Diana, Princess of Wales.

[Expert/Guest Commentator (e.g., Raquel Gates or other academics/experts)]

News media becomes a form of entertainment in a way that I think is really different than it had been before 911.

[Narrator/Host (possibly Ramtin Adabloui or another main host)]

What are you reporting? This is, this is AC. I have OJ in the car. One thing we have been noticing again, it's a very slow pursuit followed by numerous highway patrol vehicles.

[Expert/Guest Commentator (e.g., Raquel Gates or other academics/experts)]

Enter the so called dream team.

[Rund Abdelfattah]

Simpson's all star defense, including his most trusted ally, Robert Kardashian.

[Narrator/Host (possibly Ramtin Adabloui or another main host)]

If it doesn't fit, you must acquit

[Guest Interviewee or Additional Narrator]

because what do those channels exist for?

[Narrator/Host (possibly Ramtin Adabloui or another main host)]

They have to get the image, they have to get the picture.

[Guest Interviewee or Additional Narrator]

They exist to make money.

[Narrator/Host (possibly Ramtin Adabloui or another main host)]

Later on, sort of say, I couldn't help myself.

[Guest Interviewee or Additional Narrator]

What do they make money on? They make money on advertisements. What do you need, right, to make money on advertisements is you need viewers. How do you get viewers? Simple recipe.

[Narrator/Host (possibly Ramtin Adabloui or another main host)]

Shock had turned to fear.

[Guest Interviewee or Additional Narrator]

You make them really scared.

[Narrator/Host (possibly Ramtin Adabloui or another main host)]

Fear that they, the few possessions that Andrew had spared would be stolen by looters.

[Guest Interviewee or Additional Narrator]

You make them really angry. The army stands guard, M16s in hand and then you promise them that you can make that. They have to keep tuning in in order to keep themselves safe. The rage machine is such a great term for it. It's just churning fear, rage. The promise of relief sifted through its debris and counted its dead over and over again.

[Narrator/Host (possibly Ramtin Adabloui or another main host)]

And seen up close, why they call it terror.

[Guest Interviewee or Additional Narrator]

That spills over right into our perception of reality and it becomes the reality TV formula, right?

[Narrator/Host (possibly Ramtin Adabloui or another main host)]

This is survival alive. When I was producing the finale of Survivor Marquesas, I'd rented Trump Warman skating rink in Central park, met Donald. He told me how much he loved Survivor and that were I to ever have any ideas for him, he'd love to hear it and love to work with me and thinking about a job interview show, kind of Survivorish. But he takes place in a city with the winner getting a job in big time American business. And Trump was the obvious choice. Only one drama can make 18 nice

[Expert/Guest Commentator (e.g., Raquel Gates or other academics/experts)]

people become vicious, vindictive, cutthroat, evil, evil.

[Narrator/Host (possibly Ramtin Adabloui or another main host)]

Who loves the Apprentice? This Thursday, it returns.

[Rund Abdelfattah]

Coming up, the rage machine collides with the American dream.

[Expert/Guest Commentator (e.g., Raquel Gates or other academics/experts)]

It's like the American dream on speed. I'm Sierra and I'm calling from Cha Ching, Sao, Thailand. You're listening to Throughline from npr. My favorite reality TV show is Survivor. I have in my head the sound of the host, Jeff Probst voice yelling,

[Rund Abdelfattah]

you've got to dig deep.

[Expert/Guest Commentator (e.g., Raquel Gates or other academics/experts)]

And honestly does remind me that I'm more capable than I think I am.

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[Narrator/Host (possibly Ramtin Adabloui or another main host)]

Part 2. Will the real Slim Shady please stand up? And so, my fellow Americans, ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country. I am a real American. I'm on that mountaintop and I'm waiting for you, Andre in the Halster that's garden.

[Guest Interviewee or Additional Narrator]

When pro wrestling was first a thing, everybody thought it was real. They thought that these complex and these characters that the wrestlers had created were real people.

[Narrator/Host (possibly Ramtin Adabloui or another main host)]

The bell is gone. This one is officially underway.

[Guest Interviewee or Additional Narrator]

And there's this cool. There's a cool word that I love that came out of the pro wrestling tradition called kayfabe. And what kayfabe is, is maintaining your character once you're outside of the ring.

[Narrator/Host (possibly Ramtin Adabloui or another main host)]

What I am is what I am. I'm a real American. I love my family. I love my God. I love all my people that believe in me.

[Guest Interviewee or Additional Narrator]

Really, really good pro wrestlers will not break kayfabe.

[Narrator/Host (possibly Ramtin Adabloui or another main host)]

Victoria.

[Expert/Guest Commentator (e.g., Raquel Gates or other academics/experts)]

Unbelievable.

[Narrator/Host (possibly Ramtin Adabloui or another main host)]

The world's heavyweight champion, Hulk Hogan has proven to everyone what he's made of.

[Guest Interviewee or Additional Narrator]

So there's always this kind of question, right, about what is performance and what's reality. And I think it's no accident that one of the other things, right, that Trump was sort of heavily involved in before the Apprentice and I think during was the wwe, he would make regular appearances. So when I think of this idea, right, of keeping Kay fake, I don't know what is his reality and what is he projecting.

[Narrator/Host (possibly Ramtin Adabloui or another main host)]

Your grapefruits are no match for my Trump Towers.

[Guest Interviewee or Additional Narrator]

People developed a parasocial relationship, create a one sided relationship with these people. But there's a great amount of distance between us.

[Narrator/Host (possibly Ramtin Adabloui or another main host)]

Ladies and gentlemen, please welcome the author of this book right here, Trump the Art of the Deal, Donald D. Trump. Hi, Donald, Good to see you. Nice, nice.

[Guest Interviewee or Additional Narrator]

For people who maybe didn't live in New York in the 70s, 80s and

[Expert/Guest Commentator (e.g., Raquel Gates or other academics/experts)]

90s, Donald Trump is the businessman who is cited in pop culture.

[Narrator/Host (possibly Ramtin Adabloui or another main host)]

Samantha A Cosmopolitan.

[Expert/Guest Commentator (e.g., Raquel Gates or other academics/experts)]

And Donald Trump.

[Narrator/Host (possibly Ramtin Adabloui or another main host)]

You just don't get more New York than that. I've gotta go. I'll be at my office at Trumptown. Good.

[Guest Interviewee or Additional Narrator]

Excuse me, where's the lobby?

[Narrator/Host (possibly Ramtin Adabloui or another main host)]

Down the hall and to the left. Thanks.

[Expert/Guest Commentator (e.g., Raquel Gates or other academics/experts)]

Donald Trump. Both his name and his image become synonymous with American wealth.

[Narrator/Host (possibly Ramtin Adabloui or another main host)]

Donald Trump doesn't just live large. He lives really on top of the world. He is the American dream.

[Expert/Guest Commentator (e.g., Raquel Gates or other academics/experts)]

There's more than one version of the American dream. The early form of the American dream, which I would actually sort of connect to westward expansion is the idea that any like young, able bodied white man can come and like, own land, right, and sort of build a home for himself and his family and own something. The next iteration of the American dream is that, you know, any immigrant, if you come here and you work hard, you can make a really nice life yourself.

[Narrator/Host (possibly Ramtin Adabloui or another main host)]

Indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.

[Expert/Guest Commentator (e.g., Raquel Gates or other academics/experts)]

Post World War II, it's this idea that, hey, young men, you have served your country and now you're going to come back and work hard at a good job that will allow you to buy, you know, a lovely home with a white picket fence and Two cars and support your family. Now, of course, across all of those, people are always left out. Like black people, for instance, are left out of, and indigenous people are left out of every single one of those iterations. It's really like the straight white guys kind of fantasy. But I think what we get, especially in the 1950s and 60s, is the televised aspects of the civil rights movement.

[Narrator/Host (possibly Ramtin Adabloui or another main host)]

The system is gradually breaking down. And this, I think, is a very hopeful sign.

[Expert/Guest Commentator (e.g., Raquel Gates or other academics/experts)]

Being able to see Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. On television, seeing black Americans being beaten by police and attacked by police dogs.

[Narrator/Host (possibly Ramtin Adabloui or another main host)]

The inequality suffered by the American Negro population of the United States has hindered the American dream.

[Expert/Guest Commentator (e.g., Raquel Gates or other academics/experts)]

It's sort of like a reconsideration and a recalibration of what the American dream looks like.

[Narrator/Host (possibly Ramtin Adabloui or another main host)]

It comes as a great shock around the age of 5 or 6 or 7 to discover the flag to which you have pledged allegiance has not pledged allegiance to you. It comes as a great shock to discover that the country which is your birthplace has not in its whole system of reality evolved any place for you.

[Expert/Guest Commentator (e.g., Raquel Gates or other academics/experts)]

And in the 80s, there's almost like this return to that 1950s ethos, but like a doubling down on it.

[Narrator/Host (possibly Ramtin Adabloui or another main host)]

We can, and so help us God, we will make America great again.

[Expert/Guest Commentator (e.g., Raquel Gates or other academics/experts)]

And the dream itself being unbridled wealth, but also unbridled power, that's that thing that makes the 80s and the rise of Donald Trump really tantalizing for a lot of people, both in the 80s and subsequently.

[Rund Abdelfattah]

By the turn of the century, Donald Trump's larger than life Persona had begun to fade.

[Guest Interviewee or Additional Narrator]

Before the Apprentice, Donald Trump was kind of a washed up businessman. He had declared bankruptcy. You know, his casinos had failed.

[Rund Abdelfattah]

So when the opportunity to host a new Survivor ish business show came up, he suddenly had a chance to revive that Persona. Kayfabe for the 21st century.

[Narrator/Host (possibly Ramtin Adabloui or another main host)]

My name's Donald Trump and I'm the largest real estate developer in New York. I own buildings all over the place. Model agencies, the Miss Universe Path casinos, and private resorts like Mar a Lago. I'm looking for the Apprentice.

[Guest Interviewee or Additional Narrator]

People assumed, or Trump supporters at least, that if he's a wealthy, successful, powerful

[Narrator/Host (possibly Ramtin Adabloui or another main host)]

businessman, you don't make a billion dollars being an idiot.

[Guest Interviewee or Additional Narrator]

He must also be really good at everything else.

[Narrator/Host (possibly Ramtin Adabloui or another main host)]

I think he's smart enough to run the country.

[Guest Interviewee or Additional Narrator]

I grew up with my family loving Trump.

[Narrator/Host (possibly Ramtin Adabloui or another main host)]

He's got little Reagan in him too, which is always a good thing.

[Rund Abdelfattah]

So make America great again.

[Narrator/Host (possibly Ramtin Adabloui or another main host)]

Make America great again. The forgotten men and women of America will be forgotten no longer. That is the heart of this new movement.

[Guest Interviewee or Additional Narrator]

And then bringing it all back to

[Narrator/Host (possibly Ramtin Adabloui or another main host)]

the rage machine as the Trump campaign helps stoke America's outrage. Get her out of here. Protesters have always been part of the cost of doing things.

[Guest Interviewee or Additional Narrator]

Anxiety, fear, rage.

[Narrator/Host (possibly Ramtin Adabloui or another main host)]

That little catchphrase is the candidate's version of what the Apprentice used to say. You're fired. You're fired, you're fired.

[Guest Interviewee or Additional Narrator]

And then promised he was the only one who could help.

[Narrator/Host (possibly Ramtin Adabloui or another main host)]

This, in fact, is our new American moment. There has never been a better time to start living the American dream.

[Guest Interviewee or Additional Narrator]

See, it is the reality TV formula, right?

[Rund Abdelfattah]

During the years when Trump went from Apprentice host to President of the United States, reality TV also got a makeover thanks to a couple factors.

[Expert/Guest Commentator (e.g., Raquel Gates or other academics/experts)]

Reality television itself is becoming sort of focused on celebrities in a way that it hadn't been before.

[Narrator/Host (possibly Ramtin Adabloui or another main host)]

Some jabroni just asked my daughter on a date. That would be awesome. No, she's on. Not as long as my name's Hulk Hogan. The Writers Guild of America went out on strike, and we took our.

[Rund Abdelfattah]

And a writer strike in 2007 led to a boom in new, cheaper to make unscripted reality TV shows. Kim, would you stop taking pictures of yourself? Your sister's going to jail.

[Narrator/Host (possibly Ramtin Adabloui or another main host)]

Kim came into her prime exactly as social media was becoming the way of the world. That's lightning in a bottle timing. Hi, my name is Jeff Jenkins. I'm the founder of JJP Jeff Jenkins Productions. I've been the executive producer of Keeping up with the Kardashians and all of its spin offs for the first decade of its existence. 911, what are you reporting? This is A.C. i have O.J. in the car. Okay. Mr. Kardashian. Oh. Was one of the attorneys representing O.J. and that unique last name, Kardashian was kind of broadcast around the world. If you grow up with that and it's seeping into your pores just becomes part of who you are. When I first saw video of the entire family. That bell goes off. Maybe Keeping up with the Kardashians is the reality Brady Bunch.

[Guest Interviewee or Additional Narrator]

I hate you all.

[Expert/Guest Commentator (e.g., Raquel Gates or other academics/experts)]

Welcome to my family.

[Guest Interviewee or Additional Narrator]

I'm Kim Kardashian.

[Narrator/Host (possibly Ramtin Adabloui or another main host)]

Kim Kourtney, Khloe Kris, Bruce Jenner, Rob Kendall and Kim Kylie, Baby sisters of a second marriage. Like all of us, they're a dysfunctional family just like ours. That's relatable. Punch you in your face. They may fight, but any outsider. You're not gonna mess with us. I do think their dysfunction is kind of at a Shakespearean level. Kim and Chris headed for divorce just 72 days after tying the knot, Chloe was in rare form, especially when it came to her ex, Lamar. The world got its first look at Caitlyn Jenner, the Olympic hero turned reality.

[Rund Abdelfattah]

Hair appears to be styled like an Afro.

[Expert/Guest Commentator (e.g., Raquel Gates or other academics/experts)]

Teens are using a shot glass prescription bottles to plump up their lips like Kylie Jenner. Critics say that the photos are an

[Rund Abdelfattah]

example of cultural appropriation.

[Expert/Guest Commentator (e.g., Raquel Gates or other academics/experts)]

Kim Kardashian breaks down in tears over

[Guest Interviewee or Additional Narrator]

her marriage troubles with Kanye west on

[Expert/Guest Commentator (e.g., Raquel Gates or other academics/experts)]

Keeping up with the Kardashians.

[Narrator/Host (possibly Ramtin Adabloui or another main host)]

They're coming up on being the longest running reality show period in history. And they have built a multi billion dollar brand off of sharing their lives.

[Rund Abdelfattah]

Some have nicknamed them America's royal family. Others see them as more of a brand than a family. And that at least isn't totally new.

[Expert/Guest Commentator (e.g., Raquel Gates or other academics/experts)]

We're so used to seeing the Queen as head of state, there's almost something unreal about her. It's actually her family that make her real. The divorces, the scandals, the family.

[Rund Abdelfattah]

And back in the 1960s, John F. Kennedy, who came to power at the same time TVs became a fixture in every American home, used his made for TV smile and charm to captivate the country.

[Guest Interviewee or Additional Narrator]

People just really not only loved Kennedy, but developed a parasocial relationship with his family.

[Rund Abdelfattah]

People wanted to know everything about them. And the gossip mill was always turning with some new story. Did Kennedy smoke pot? Why was the Queen of England mad at Jackie? Was Kennedy having an affair with Marilyn Monroe?

[Narrator/Host (possibly Ramtin Adabloui or another main host)]

Folks like Marilyn Monroe, perhaps unwittingly, were in some ways also living in a reality show.

[Rund Abdelfattah]

But what makes the Kardashians different is they didn't start as politicians or actors or singers. Their story began with a high profile murder case and a sex tape.

[Narrator/Host (possibly Ramtin Adabloui or another main host)]

Cue Ray J.

[Sponsor/Advertisement Voice]

Sexy. Can I? I'm just kidding. We're going to keep it classy.

[Rund Abdelfattah]

And the reality TV machine transformed them into one of the most influential families on the planet. A symbol of a new version of the American dream. One of wealth, excess and celebrity, tailored for a world where we ourselves are branded content. But making it work is a dream that's attainable for only a very few.

[Guest Interviewee or Additional Narrator]

The facts bear out that there is very limited economic mobility in our country. But because of American exceptionalism, individualism, pull yourself up by your bootstraps. Culture people really believe that they can the trade off.

[Rund Abdelfattah]

Constantly having a camera track your every move, watching you in your most vulnerable moments and letting the world judge you for it.

[Narrator/Host (possibly Ramtin Adabloui or another main host)]

Kim, whose destiny is this experience of being on television and sharing had very few boundaries. She will reassure me. No, keep rolling honey.

[Guest Interviewee or Additional Narrator]

I'M the Marilyn and the Jackie. What is performance and what's reality?

[Narrator/Host (possibly Ramtin Adabloui or another main host)]

Welcome. You've got mail.

[Guest Interviewee or Additional Narrator]

When I think about myself as a teenager, first on the Internet, what was the number one rule? You don't share personal information about yourself with strangers on the Internet. And you know, fast forward 20 years later, goodbye. What are we all doing? We're sharing everything about our lives with strangers on the Internet. Everybody has a smartphone. Everybody has a camera on them at all times. There's this intense expectation that not only are you going to record every aspect of your life, but that it's going to look absolutely perfect. Perfect and beautiful, and there's no end. Just keep scrolling and scrolling and scrolling forever and ever and ever.

[Rund Abdelfattah]

Do you think that people today in our modern world are more lonely than they've ever been?

[Guest Interviewee or Additional Narrator]

I do.

[Rund Abdelfattah]

Coming up, the realities of love and loneliness.

[Narrator/Host (possibly Ramtin Adabloui or another main host)]

This is. This is Eric Massey from Amsterdam, and you're listening to Throughline, one of the best podcasts there are.

[Rund Abdelfattah]

This message comes from 1-800-FLOWERS. Looking for the best place to shop this Mother's Day?

[Narrator/Host (possibly Ramtin Adabloui or another main host)]

Go with the brand.

[Rund Abdelfattah]

That makes it easy to send something thoughtful to everyone on your list. 1-800-flowers.com right now at 1-800-flowers, order one dozen roses and get another dozen free. More flowers mean more smiles, all backed by the quality, attention to detail and trusted delivery experience that make 1-800-FLowers your top choice to send something beautiful mom will love. Make Mom's Day at 1-800-flowers.com NPR this

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[Narrator/Host (possibly Ramtin Adabloui or another main host)]

Part 3 We found love in a hopeless place.

[Expert/Guest Commentator (e.g., Raquel Gates or other academics/experts)]

I almost sang the Rihanna song, but

[Guest Interviewee or Additional Narrator]

I wouldn't do it because I feel like that would be the take you use.

[Narrator/Host (possibly Ramtin Adabloui or another main host)]

Here he is, the bachelor. Why on earth are you doing this? I was thinking that I want to meet someone great. Well, really, the easy part is going to be meeting these 25 women. The tough part is deciding which 15 you're going to invite to get to know you a little bit better. These are real women and they are really looking for a husband.

[Guest Interviewee or Additional Narrator]

I mean, if this is going to be a fairy tale, how perfect would that be?

[Rund Abdelfattah]

The idea of a soulmate with of the one was around way before the Bachelor.

[Narrator/Host (possibly Ramtin Adabloui or another main host)]

No matter what I ever do or

[Rund Abdelfattah]

say, Heathcliff, I've loved you since I was 11.

[Narrator/Host (possibly Ramtin Adabloui or another main host)]

You'll always have Paris.

[Guest Interviewee or Additional Narrator]

I hate it when you make me laugh. Even worse when you make me cry.

[Narrator/Host (possibly Ramtin Adabloui or another main host)]

You complete me.

[Rund Abdelfattah]

But mostly, I hate the way I don't hate you.

[Narrator/Host (possibly Ramtin Adabloui or another main host)]

Not even close. Not even a little bit. Not even at all.

[Rund Abdelfattah]

The Bachelor, which has been on TV for more than 20 years now, fused reality with that fantasy and made us believe we could have it, too.

[Narrator/Host (possibly Ramtin Adabloui or another main host)]

I want to be everything to you. I want to be everything for you.

[Guest Interviewee or Additional Narrator]

And then it comes right to this romantic fairy tale conclusion. It ends with a proposal and a beautiful diamond ring. And so what we're seeing, right, is the fairy tale

[Narrator/Host (possibly Ramtin Adabloui or another main host)]

bring in bash, the producer. A lot of people think it's like,

[Expert/Guest Commentator (e.g., Raquel Gates or other academics/experts)]

oh, let's just find the craziest, you know, person to get good ratings. But it's actually not.

[Guest Interviewee or Additional Narrator]

Because to have people watch, you have

[Expert/Guest Commentator (e.g., Raquel Gates or other academics/experts)]

to buy into the fantasy. And then to buy into the fantasy, you have to know that, you know, there are potentially great matches for people. Sometimes when something's really hokey, it almost gives us permission to get lost in it because it's kind of like, you know, this is silly, right? We all know this is a construction, right? Okay, now that we've gotten that out of, out of the way, we suspend disbelief. It allows us to sort of lower our defenses and kind of fully indulge. But also, I think the real always seeps out.

[Rund Abdelfattah]

Even before the pandemic struck, this was the lonely century.

[Narrator/Host (possibly Ramtin Adabloui or another main host)]

Technology has led to substituting online connections for offline in person connections, and ultimately, I think that has been harmful.

[Rund Abdelfattah]

The lonelier we get, the more seductive the fantasy that we'll find real human connection becomes, and the easier it is to feel invested. In shows like the Bachelor, where the engagement ring is the ultimate grand prize,

[Guest Interviewee or Additional Narrator]

we have our favorites, right? Our proxies, who we want to win, who we start to form parasocial relationships with.

[Rund Abdelfattah]

And as modern love becomes increasingly online and competitive, reality TV has evolved to mirror today's dating dilemmas.

[Guest Interviewee or Additional Narrator]

In my head, it is really easy

[Rund Abdelfattah]

to sift out fboys, But y' all

[Expert/Guest Commentator (e.g., Raquel Gates or other academics/experts)]

be so confused and be like, how did this happen? Oh, my God, I thought he was this.

[Rund Abdelfattah]

And it was like, is you blind? And that is why we're here.

[Expert/Guest Commentator (e.g., Raquel Gates or other academics/experts)]

F boy island 24 men are coming, right? They're not really about love and dating. They're about something else. And they're really just sort of competitive shows anyway. They're More like they're kind of like Survivor in some ways.

[Guest Interviewee or Additional Narrator]

It's almost like an enactment, right. Of the dating apps. It's just like kind of swipe. I mean, certain. There's a lot more physicality, but just going through partners.

[Rund Abdelfattah]

He was making me feel uncomfortable.

[Narrator/Host (possibly Ramtin Adabloui or another main host)]

We're gonna be sleep buddies. I've been in, like, situationships. I'm kidding.

[Guest Interviewee or Additional Narrator]

You know, I have a couple seconds where I'm deciding if I want to swipe left or swipe right. And they're kind of curating this image. And if you can't curate that image right, does that mean that that avenue is closed to you? And I think different people, you know, some people will say, no, I don't have a problem with it. But I think the majority, if you ask the majority, right, they're gonna say, if you're not conventionally attractive and don't meet sort of X, y and Z criteria, you're not gonna get any matches. And then what do you do? Right. Where do you go to actually meet somebody that you can make a connection with?

[Rund Abdelfattah]

That question has led to frustration, hopelessness, and a sense of grievance that's flourishing online and reflecting back into our TV shows.

[Narrator/Host (possibly Ramtin Adabloui or another main host)]

Cue the raging machine again. You interrupted our date because you couldn't handle me and her alone.

[Rund Abdelfattah]

What's mine is mine and what's yours is mine.

[Narrator/Host (possibly Ramtin Adabloui or another main host)]

That's not fair.

[Guest Interviewee or Additional Narrator]

We might experience, right, this emotion, right. Of schadenfreude. Such a great word. It's happiness of the misfortune of others when they get into fights, when they get too drunk and embarrass themselves. You've embarrassed me in front of everyone.

[Narrator/Host (possibly Ramtin Adabloui or another main host)]

You've made me look stupid in front of everyone.

[Guest Interviewee or Additional Narrator]

So, yeah, I'm gonna read.

[Expert/Guest Commentator (e.g., Raquel Gates or other academics/experts)]

I think that it's fascinating that a lot of contemporary shows around love are much more focused on relationship dynamics. 90 Day Fiance, married at first sight.

[Narrator/Host (possibly Ramtin Adabloui or another main host)]

This is a revolutionary new social experiment. This is the first time an experiment like this has ever been done in

[Expert/Guest Commentator (e.g., Raquel Gates or other academics/experts)]

the U.S. four experts intend to use scientific research to arrange three marriages. Essentially, what happens after people find each other, as opposed to treating marriage, for instance, as the ultimate goal or the end of the story. Right? We're kind of like picking up after Cinderella and Prince Charming get married and being like, so what were the expectations like now that she was back in the castle? Like, what happened then?

[Narrator/Host (possibly Ramtin Adabloui or another main host)]

Why? It's like a dream, a wonderful dream. Come.

[Guest Interviewee or Additional Narrator]

So sick of this.

[Expert/Guest Commentator (e.g., Raquel Gates or other academics/experts)]

Go away then.

[Guest Interviewee or Additional Narrator]

Go away. Are you happy?

[Narrator/Host (possibly Ramtin Adabloui or another main host)]

No.

[Rund Abdelfattah]

The fantasy is breaking down. And to keep us hooked, reality Shows about love are acknowledging more and more just how hard it is not only to find human connection, but to sustain it.

[Expert/Guest Commentator (e.g., Raquel Gates or other academics/experts)]

Like, I really would love it if you could just kind of like, get

[Rund Abdelfattah]

more into, like, a husband mentality.

[Expert/Guest Commentator (e.g., Raquel Gates or other academics/experts)]

Quieter moments when people are having a conversation about, I can't believe you did. Like, that's when the real slips out.

[Narrator/Host (possibly Ramtin Adabloui or another main host)]

Like, what's your expectation? Do you think you're just gonna build me into who you want it?

[Expert/Guest Commentator (e.g., Raquel Gates or other academics/experts)]

I view these shows as acknowledging for viewers a growing cynicism, quite frankly, around, like, traditional models and narratives around love and around relationship. Whether it's reality television or like classic Hollywood cinema, media has always been a site of fantasy projection. It's a place for us to work out our hopes, our desires, our anxieties, our fears. And I think reality television serves that purpose. Really? Really.

[Guest Interviewee or Additional Narrator]

Life is a series of events that don't make narrative sense. There aren't neat conclusions. So reality television provides that for us.

[Expert/Guest Commentator (e.g., Raquel Gates or other academics/experts)]

You know, there's a way that people talk about television and, like, media and reality TV within that as being a reflection of reality. I actually think it's a refraction of reality. It's taking things that are happening in real life and sort of skewing them and sometimes presenting them back to us in ways that are perfectly aligned with reality and in some ways are skewed in such a way that make us question what we thought we knew about reality.

[Narrator/Host (possibly Ramtin Adabloui or another main host)]

Okay, cue the final scene of the Truman show when the show's creator finally speaks directly to Truman after televising him without his knowledge since the day he was born. I have been watching you your whole life. You can't leave Truman. You belong here. Say something. Say something, God damn it. You're on television. You're live to the whole world. Bring up do line ending music. And roll credits.

[Rund Abdelfattah]

That's it for this week's show. I'm Rund Abdelfattah Throughline was created by me and Ramtin Adabloui. This episode was produced by me and

[Narrator/Host (possibly Ramtin Adabloui or another main host)]

Lawrence Wu, Julie Kane, Anya Steinberg, Yolanda

[Expert/Guest Commentator (e.g., Raquel Gates or other academics/experts)]

Sanguine, Casey Minor, Christina Kim, Devin Kadayama, Amiri Tullo, Jennifer Etienne.

[Rund Abdelfattah]

Thank you to Cher, Vincent N' Ajeri Eaton Tamar Charney, and Anya Grundman. Fact checking for this episode was done by Kevin Voelkel. This episode was mixed by Gilly Moon. Music for this episode was composed by Ramtin and his band Drop Electric, which

[Narrator/Host (possibly Ramtin Adabloui or another main host)]

includes Anya Mizani, Naveed Marvi Shoes Fujiwara.

[Rund Abdelfattah]

And finally, if you have an idea or liked something you heard on the show, please write [e-mail] and if you're open to us giving you a call back, leave your number too. We might feature your idea in an upcoming episode. Also, make sure to follow us on Apple, Spotify or the NPR app. That way you'll never miss an episode. Thanks for listening.

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