Throughline – "The Mother of Thanksgiving"

NPR | Aired: November 27, 2025
Hosts: Rund Abdelfattah & Ramtin Arablouei

Episode Overview

This episode of Throughline explores the true origins and evolution of Thanksgiving, revisiting its often-mythologized beginnings and spotlighting the woman who shaped the modern holiday—Sarah Josepha Hale, the so-called "Mother of Thanksgiving." Through interviews with historians, Native voices, and readings from historical texts, the episode unpacks the historical realities that have been obscured by the Thanksgiving myth, the role of national storytelling in shaping identity, and the ongoing consequences of these narratives.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Myth of the First Thanksgiving

The Traditional Story:
Common narrative: English Pilgrims and Wampanoags came together for a peaceful meal in 1621.

“The suggestion is that the two parties got together for this feast out of innate friendship.”
— Expert Historian [02:03]
Historical Reality:
Wampanoags vastly outnumbered the struggling English settlers, who were simply trying to survive.

“The Wampanoags outnumber them by a factor of at minimum 20 to 1. So the Wampanoags are the bosses here.”
— David Silverman, Historian [02:44]
Context Ignored:
The common framing erases the complexities and power dynamics and ultimately the ensuing violence and dispossession.

“Remembering this meeting is just about friendship and gratitude actually robs this very real event of all of its historical context.”
— David Silverman [03:19]

2. War, Dispossession, and the Dark Side of the Story

King Philip's War (1675):
Over half a century after the so-called “First Thanksgiving,” violence erupts between the English and Wampanoags, leading to mass casualties, enslavement, and land loss for Indigenous peoples.
Thanksgiving for Victory:
The English settlers celebrated a “Thanksgiving” for their victory over Indigenous people, not for peace.

“Let’s be clear. They kill thousands of them.”
— Expert Historian [05:36]
“Plymouth in Massachusetts, they hold the Thanksgiving for their victory over the native people.”
— Expert Historian [06:42]
Native Perspective:

“Tribal nations are so. Such a tiny portion of the population—that’s not by accident. And nobody talks about you except when there’s a butterball on the table.”
— Elizabeth James Perry, Aquinnah Wampanoag [06:48]

3. Sarah Josepha Hale: The Mother of Thanksgiving

[Part 1: Hale’s Crusade – 12:22]

Background:
Born in 1788, New Hampshire; unusually well-educated for her time thanks to mother and brother [12:49–13:00].
Widowhood and Independence:

“Her life was crumbling around her... Mrs. Hale nearly penniless... the tradition of the time was... her children were parceled off to relatives and she didn’t want to do that.”
— Melanie Kirkpatrick [14:44]
Writing and Influence:
Wrote one of the first anti-slavery novels, Northwood (1827). Opposed slavery but believed in “repatriation” of free Blacks to Africa. Became editor of Godey’s Lady’s Book, a defining women’s magazine of the era [15:21–19:22].
Her Mission:

“She thought... the new country needed its own stories. They needed something to coalesce around. And for Sarah, there was no better day to coalesce around than... Thanksgiving.”
— Melanie Kirkpatrick [20:26]
Thanksgiving as National Unifier:

“Everything that contributes to bind us in one vast empire together... makes us feel from the icy north to the sunny south that we are one family...”
— Sarah Josepha Hale (read by narrator) [20:56]

4. The Campaign for a National Holiday

[Part 2: One Heart, One Voice – 24:06]

Cultural and Political Divide:
As the nation hurtled toward Civil War, Hale pushed harder—writing hundreds of personal letters to governors and presidents, running editorials and Thanksgiving recipes, and arguing for unity [27:24–28:28].
Resistance:
Southern politicians rejected her crusade, seeing Thanksgiving as a “Yankee” holiday with abolitionist undertones.

“...basically it was a damned Yankee holiday.”
— Melanie Kirkpatrick quoting Virginia’s governor [31:03]
Persistence Pays Off:
After the pivotal Battle of Gettysburg in 1863, Hale writes President Lincoln again.

“Just five days after reading Hale’s letter... Lincoln agreed and issued a proclamation making Thanksgiving a national holiday.”
— Melanie Kirkpatrick [34:07–34:15]
Lincoln’s Call for Unity:

“I do therefore invite my fellow citizens... to set apart and observe the last Thursday of November next as a day of thanksgiving.”
— Abraham Lincoln (read by Expert Historian) [34:24]
Legacy:

“It was Lincoln’s decision in 1863 that started the tradition of a national thanksgiving that continues to this day.”
— Melanie Kirkpatrick [35:31]

5. The Birth and Spread of the Thanksgiving Myth

[Part 3: The Thanksgiving Myth – 37:33]

Disconnect from Early Narratives:

“As early as 1769, New Englanders began celebrating what they called Forefathers Day… But already in 1836, William Apess was poking holes in that story.”
— Rund Abdelfattah [40:23]
The Myth’s Genesis:

“In the 1840s, a minister in New England... publishes one of the primary sources that documents that feast... and he adds a footnote: ‘This was the first Thanksgiving.’”
— Expert Historian [41:47]
Nationalization Post-Civil War:
The footnote launches the potent myth; by the early 1900s, “Pilgrims and Indians” celebrations dominated school curricula, reinforced by influential paintings like Jean Leon Gerome Ferris’ “The First Thanksgiving” [43:28–44:58].
Myth vs. Reality:

“It’s a whitewash of the bloodiness, of the ruthlessness of colonialism.”
— Expert Historian [45:31]

6. The Wampanoag Perspective and Survival

The Real Stories:
Wampanoag communities, despite centuries of removal, division, and legal undermining, maintain their history and culture, sharing family stories and humor.

“And when you’re a tribe for thousands of years, just because some guy goes, ‘Oh, you’re not.’ It doesn’t mean you stop.”
— Elizabeth James Perry [47:10]
Thanksgiving in Wampanoag Memory:
For Elizabeth’s family, “Turkey wasn’t new for us. Cranberries weren’t new. I don’t know what to say. New England wasn’t new. I mean, we kind of like, yeah... we’re kind of from here.” [47:34–48:29]

7. Rethinking Historical Memory and Identity

History, Guilt, and National Myths:

“History is not about trying to make people feel guilty or ashamed, patriotic or unpatriotic. It’s designed to capture a complex past in all its complexity. National celebrations are another kettle of fish… There will never be unity around complex historical subjects.”
— Expert Historian [49:10–49:33]
Thanksgiving’s Role Today:
Viewpoints diverge—whether Thanksgiving is a time for honest reckoning or a problematic erasure, and whether it can or should invoke "Pilgrims and Indians" at all.

“I would prefer to see Thanksgiving continue without invoking Pilgrims and Indians at all. I don’t trust any ritual to capture complexities of any sort, never mind violent complexities…”
— Expert Historian [50:28]
Hale’s Final Thoughts:

“This idea was very near to my heart, for I believed that this celebration would be a bond of union throughout our country as well as a source of happiness in the homes of the people.”
— Sarah Josepha Hale (read by narrator) [51:59]

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

“The funeral-faced month of November is thus made to wear a garland of joy.”
— Narrator (Historical Text) [00:53]
“You don’t really know why.”
— Elizabeth James Perry, on the surreal narrative of the ‘First Thanksgiving’ [02:10]
“Let the children of the Pilgrims blush. Let the day be dark… the 22nd of December and the 4th of July are days of mourning and not of joy.”
— William Apess, Pequot minister (read by Expert Historian) [40:50]
“Turkey wasn’t new for us. Cranberries weren’t new. I don’t know what to say. New England wasn’t new. I mean, we kind of like, yeah… we’re kind of from here.”
— Elizabeth James Perry [47:34–48:29]
“We’re indoctrinated with this idea as children and then we’re never asked to revisit it as we become more mature and capable of complex thoughts.”
— Expert Historian [50:28]

Timestamps for Key Segments

Intro & Purpose of Episode: 00:15–01:38
Traditional Thanksgiving Story & Historical Reality: 01:38–03:32
King Philip’s War & Ongoing Violence: 03:32–07:17
Birth of Thanksgiving as National Holiday: 08:00–10:04
Sarah Josepha Hale’s Early Life and Advocacy: 12:22–22:07
Her National Campaign & Civil War Context: 24:06–35:42
Thanksgiving Myth Formation: 37:33–46:01
Wampanoag Memory & Contemporary Reflection: 46:17–49:04
Complexities of History and National Identity: 49:04–51:59
Sarah Josepha Hale’s Legacy: 51:47–51:59

Conclusion

Throughline’s “The Mother of Thanksgiving” interrogates the roots and realities of Thanksgiving—from its misunderstood origins to the conscious national mythmaking that helped shape America’s sense of itself. The episode reveals lost context, tells the story of persistent women’s agency, and invites us to reflect on both the function and the cost of our unifying traditions. Thanksgiving, it turns out, is much more than turkey, pie, or myth—it is a mirror of the stories we choose to tell, and those we choose to forget.

Throughline – "The Mother of Thanksgiving"

NPR | Aired: November 27, 2025
Hosts: Rund Abdelfattah & Ramtin Arablouei

Episode Overview

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Myth of the First Thanksgiving

The Traditional Story:
Common narrative: English Pilgrims and Wampanoags came together for a peaceful meal in 1621.

“The suggestion is that the two parties got together for this feast out of innate friendship.”
— Expert Historian [02:03]
Historical Reality:
Wampanoags vastly outnumbered the struggling English settlers, who were simply trying to survive.

“The Wampanoags outnumber them by a factor of at minimum 20 to 1. So the Wampanoags are the bosses here.”
— David Silverman, Historian [02:44]
Context Ignored:
The common framing erases the complexities and power dynamics and ultimately the ensuing violence and dispossession.

“Remembering this meeting is just about friendship and gratitude actually robs this very real event of all of its historical context.”
— David Silverman [03:19]

2. War, Dispossession, and the Dark Side of the Story

King Philip's War (1675):
Over half a century after the so-called “First Thanksgiving,” violence erupts between the English and Wampanoags, leading to mass casualties, enslavement, and land loss for Indigenous peoples.
Thanksgiving for Victory:
The English settlers celebrated a “Thanksgiving” for their victory over Indigenous people, not for peace.

“Let’s be clear. They kill thousands of them.”
— Expert Historian [05:36]
“Plymouth in Massachusetts, they hold the Thanksgiving for their victory over the native people.”
— Expert Historian [06:42]
Native Perspective:

“Tribal nations are so. Such a tiny portion of the population—that’s not by accident. And nobody talks about you except when there’s a butterball on the table.”
— Elizabeth James Perry, Aquinnah Wampanoag [06:48]

3. Sarah Josepha Hale: The Mother of Thanksgiving

[Part 1: Hale’s Crusade – 12:22]

Background:
Born in 1788, New Hampshire; unusually well-educated for her time thanks to mother and brother [12:49–13:00].
Widowhood and Independence:

“Her life was crumbling around her... Mrs. Hale nearly penniless... the tradition of the time was... her children were parceled off to relatives and she didn’t want to do that.”
— Melanie Kirkpatrick [14:44]
Writing and Influence:
Wrote one of the first anti-slavery novels, Northwood (1827). Opposed slavery but believed in “repatriation” of free Blacks to Africa. Became editor of Godey’s Lady’s Book, a defining women’s magazine of the era [15:21–19:22].
Her Mission:

“She thought... the new country needed its own stories. They needed something to coalesce around. And for Sarah, there was no better day to coalesce around than... Thanksgiving.”
— Melanie Kirkpatrick [20:26]
Thanksgiving as National Unifier:

“Everything that contributes to bind us in one vast empire together... makes us feel from the icy north to the sunny south that we are one family...”
— Sarah Josepha Hale (read by narrator) [20:56]

4. The Campaign for a National Holiday

[Part 2: One Heart, One Voice – 24:06]

Cultural and Political Divide:
As the nation hurtled toward Civil War, Hale pushed harder—writing hundreds of personal letters to governors and presidents, running editorials and Thanksgiving recipes, and arguing for unity [27:24–28:28].
Resistance:
Southern politicians rejected her crusade, seeing Thanksgiving as a “Yankee” holiday with abolitionist undertones.

“...basically it was a damned Yankee holiday.”
— Melanie Kirkpatrick quoting Virginia’s governor [31:03]
Persistence Pays Off:
After the pivotal Battle of Gettysburg in 1863, Hale writes President Lincoln again.

“Just five days after reading Hale’s letter... Lincoln agreed and issued a proclamation making Thanksgiving a national holiday.”
— Melanie Kirkpatrick [34:07–34:15]
Lincoln’s Call for Unity:

“I do therefore invite my fellow citizens... to set apart and observe the last Thursday of November next as a day of thanksgiving.”
— Abraham Lincoln (read by Expert Historian) [34:24]
Legacy:

“It was Lincoln’s decision in 1863 that started the tradition of a national thanksgiving that continues to this day.”
— Melanie Kirkpatrick [35:31]

5. The Birth and Spread of the Thanksgiving Myth

[Part 3: The Thanksgiving Myth – 37:33]

Disconnect from Early Narratives:

“As early as 1769, New Englanders began celebrating what they called Forefathers Day… But already in 1836, William Apess was poking holes in that story.”
— Rund Abdelfattah [40:23]
The Myth’s Genesis:

“In the 1840s, a minister in New England... publishes one of the primary sources that documents that feast... and he adds a footnote: ‘This was the first Thanksgiving.’”
— Expert Historian [41:47]
Nationalization Post-Civil War:
The footnote launches the potent myth; by the early 1900s, “Pilgrims and Indians” celebrations dominated school curricula, reinforced by influential paintings like Jean Leon Gerome Ferris’ “The First Thanksgiving” [43:28–44:58].
Myth vs. Reality:

“It’s a whitewash of the bloodiness, of the ruthlessness of colonialism.”
— Expert Historian [45:31]

6. The Wampanoag Perspective and Survival

The Real Stories:
Wampanoag communities, despite centuries of removal, division, and legal undermining, maintain their history and culture, sharing family stories and humor.

“And when you’re a tribe for thousands of years, just because some guy goes, ‘Oh, you’re not.’ It doesn’t mean you stop.”
— Elizabeth James Perry [47:10]
Thanksgiving in Wampanoag Memory:
For Elizabeth’s family, “Turkey wasn’t new for us. Cranberries weren’t new. I don’t know what to say. New England wasn’t new. I mean, we kind of like, yeah... we’re kind of from here.” [47:34–48:29]

7. Rethinking Historical Memory and Identity

History, Guilt, and National Myths:

“History is not about trying to make people feel guilty or ashamed, patriotic or unpatriotic. It’s designed to capture a complex past in all its complexity. National celebrations are another kettle of fish… There will never be unity around complex historical subjects.”
— Expert Historian [49:10–49:33]
Thanksgiving’s Role Today:
Viewpoints diverge—whether Thanksgiving is a time for honest reckoning or a problematic erasure, and whether it can or should invoke "Pilgrims and Indians" at all.

“I would prefer to see Thanksgiving continue without invoking Pilgrims and Indians at all. I don’t trust any ritual to capture complexities of any sort, never mind violent complexities…”
— Expert Historian [50:28]
Hale’s Final Thoughts:

“This idea was very near to my heart, for I believed that this celebration would be a bond of union throughout our country as well as a source of happiness in the homes of the people.”
— Sarah Josepha Hale (read by narrator) [51:59]

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

“The funeral-faced month of November is thus made to wear a garland of joy.”
— Narrator (Historical Text) [00:53]
“You don’t really know why.”
— Elizabeth James Perry, on the surreal narrative of the ‘First Thanksgiving’ [02:10]
“Let the children of the Pilgrims blush. Let the day be dark… the 22nd of December and the 4th of July are days of mourning and not of joy.”
— William Apess, Pequot minister (read by Expert Historian) [40:50]
“Turkey wasn’t new for us. Cranberries weren’t new. I don’t know what to say. New England wasn’t new. I mean, we kind of like, yeah… we’re kind of from here.”
— Elizabeth James Perry [47:34–48:29]
“We’re indoctrinated with this idea as children and then we’re never asked to revisit it as we become more mature and capable of complex thoughts.”
— Expert Historian [50:28]

Timestamps for Key Segments

Intro & Purpose of Episode: 00:15–01:38
Traditional Thanksgiving Story & Historical Reality: 01:38–03:32
King Philip’s War & Ongoing Violence: 03:32–07:17
Birth of Thanksgiving as National Holiday: 08:00–10:04
Sarah Josepha Hale’s Early Life and Advocacy: 12:22–22:07
Her National Campaign & Civil War Context: 24:06–35:42
Thanksgiving Myth Formation: 37:33–46:01
Wampanoag Memory & Contemporary Reflection: 46:17–49:04
Complexities of History and National Identity: 49:04–51:59
Sarah Josepha Hale’s Legacy: 51:47–51:59

wavePod

The Mother of Thanksgiving

Summary

Throughline – "The Mother of Thanksgiving"

Episode Overview

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Myth of the First Thanksgiving

2. War, Dispossession, and the Dark Side of the Story

3. Sarah Josepha Hale: The Mother of Thanksgiving

[Part 1: Hale’s Crusade – 12:22]

4. The Campaign for a National Holiday

[Part 2: One Heart, One Voice – 24:06]

5. The Birth and Spread of the Thanksgiving Myth

[Part 3: The Thanksgiving Myth – 37:33]

6. The Wampanoag Perspective and Survival

7. Rethinking Historical Memory and Identity

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

Timestamps for Key Segments

Conclusion

Transcript

Summary

Throughline – "The Mother of Thanksgiving"

Episode Overview

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Myth of the First Thanksgiving

2. War, Dispossession, and the Dark Side of the Story

3. Sarah Josepha Hale: The Mother of Thanksgiving

[Part 1: Hale’s Crusade – 12:22]

4. The Campaign for a National Holiday

[Part 2: One Heart, One Voice – 24:06]

5. The Birth and Spread of the Thanksgiving Myth

[Part 3: The Thanksgiving Myth – 37:33]

6. The Wampanoag Perspective and Survival

7. Rethinking Historical Memory and Identity

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

Timestamps for Key Segments

Conclusion