← Throwbacks with Matt Leinart & Jerry Ferrara
Throwbacks with Matt Leinart & Jerry Ferrara
Barry Sanders on Retired Numbers, The Detroit Lions, Favorite Running Backs and the Greatest Sports What Ifs
00:44:47
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- [00:00]
Barry Sanders
You know, after a certain number of years of playing, you know, I, I kind of knew or understood in my mind that I wouldn't necessarily be a 15 year career guy. And I, you know, I don't really have any regret. Regrets as far as it. I, I think, I think just that drive and all those things, you know, you need to do on a daily basis to continue playing, you know, a lot of that just wasn't there anymore.
- [00:42]
Jerry Ferrara
Welcome to another episode of throwbacks. Jerry Ferrara. Matt Liner. Maddie Viral liner.
- [00:49]
Matt Leinert
Well, Ace, Ace in the house. Number 11, baby.
- [00:52]
Jerry Ferrara
Number 11 for life.
- [00:53]
Matt Leinert
I mean, can we just move on? I mean, can we move on?
- [00:56]
Jerry Ferrara
Everyone needs to move on from that. But it was a hell of a story for a week. We'll talk more about Matt. Matt. And if you haven't checked out last week's episode, go check that out on YouTube. And don't forget to like and subscribe on YouTube. We appreciate that. If you're an audio person, put us in your ears. Just take us with you. And throwback at throwback show on all social platforms. Maddie, two weeks ago we had Michael Vick, right? And obviously we got in depth with them. One of my favorite players to watch, but I didn't think it could be topped. But it was topped. This week we have the goat. The, in my opinion, the goat running back of all time. You can argue with yourself, I don't care. Barry freaking Sanders. I keep saying that all week. My wife thinks I'm crazy. Barry Sanders joining us on throwbacks today.
- [01:45]
Matt Leinert
Isn't that pretty awesome? Be like, dude, we got Barry Sanders coming on the show next week and that got Barry, Barry Sanders coming on the show. He's in my opinion the greatest running back of all time. One of the biggest, kind of like, oh God, what ifs, right? What if? He would have kept playing but obviously he retired for his own reasons. But he's coming on, man. I can't wait to chop it up with him. And he's just one of those few guys as an, as a former athlete. It's just like, it's like this like Christmas morning for me, man. Get a chance to talk to a legend. I've gotten to know him through all the Heisman stuff over the years. He's a great guy and man, just fired up to have him on the
- [02:19]
Jerry Ferrara
show, you know, I know he's awesome because I asked my 17 year old nephew, I always tell him, guys I have on and some of the older players, he's like, I don't know who that is, but I said Barry Sanders. He went whoa. So as a 17 year old kid heard Barry Sanders name and went whoa. You think, do you think, do you
- [02:33]
Matt Leinert
think the Detroit Lions are going to ask him if he would ever unretire his number? I wonder.
- [02:37]
Jerry Ferrara
We should, should we ask Barry what he would say? Let you know what I'm going to start. We'll start with that, Matt. We'll start with that question.
- [02:44]
Matt Leinert
The answer is no.
- [02:45]
Jerry Ferrara
The answer is no. Also crazy. Before we bring him on too. Only two times has ever been CO MVPs and unfortunately Barry split it with Brett Favre on like his 2,000rushing yard season. That's something we should go back and we had no disrespect to Brett Favre. Barry should have had that MVP award all to himself. We're not going to ask him about that. The other time was Steve McNair and Peyton Manning, if you were wondering in 02. But I think without further ado, Matt, should we bring on Barry? By the way, no nickname isn't that cool about. He's so, he's so cool and it was so popular he didn't even need a nickname. It's just Barry Sanders is the nickname.
- [03:20]
Matt Leinert
Yep. Barry Sanders on throwbacks. Here we go.
- [03:23]
Jerry Ferrara
Okay, joining us now, we've been talking about him for quite a bit. Barry Sanders on the show. Barry, before we get started, we have so many things we want to talk to you about, but really quickly, you are of the unique way because you have two retired numbers, right? Obviously at in college and the Lions. I don't know if you've seen this week our guy Matt Leinert went a little viral talking about a story where over the years USC's come to him and said, hey, you know, we have this big recruit. Would you consider unretiring your number? And Matt very strongly said, heck no. So we just wanted to get a quick, quick.
- [03:58]
Matt Leinert
I already know the answer. Yes.
- [04:00]
Jerry Ferrara
So if anyone ever came to you and said, hey Mr. Sanders, I mean first of the Lions did that, that would be if anyone did it. But how quick would you even take the call?
- [04:10]
Barry Sanders
I mean if they came to me, I would, I would at least I would take the call. Yes, I would, I would take the call. That would be a tough conversation though. That would be a tough conversation.
- [04:21]
Matt Leinert
All I, all I said was, all I said was if my, if one of my boys and you had, you know, boys who played college football, if one of them ever ended up going to USC and wanted to wear daddy's number, absolutely, man, you could Wear it. But until then, I just said, you know what? No, I'm going to keep it unretired. But, yeah, people have been making this a story. So number 20, your numbers stay retired forever, man. As they should.
- [04:46]
Barry Sanders
I think the number is safe for now, you know, but you never know. You never know what could happen in a few years. So there's some good players out there, but. But it would definitely be a tough conversation. Absolutely.
- [04:58]
Jerry Ferrara
Well, we like to throw it back and go to back in the day on this show. I want to throw it back for you. When did you have the realization in your life as a young kid or man? Like, wow, I'm damn good at this football thing.
- [05:13]
Barry Sanders
I know for me, I always had that chip on my shoulder as that I was always more thinking I was that kid who didn't get recruited right by a lot of. By a lot of big schools. And there were all these preconceived notions about was I big enough, was I fast enough, that kind of thing. So for me, it would have been later on, it would have been in college, it would have been second, maybe the end of my first year, second year in college. When I'm. Some of the guys you're practicing against are being drafted. They're not maybe big names, but there's guys that are making NFL teams that you're practicing against and that you feel like you're, you know, you're, you know, you're stacking up pretty good against them. You know, just stuff like that. So it would have been, it would have been well into college.
- [06:07]
Matt Leinert
Well, you just talked about college and, you know, you played with obviously, Thurman Thomas, who's one of the greats, and you just mentioned your recruiting story. I'd be curious. Do you have any fun or unique recruiting stories, you know, going with Oklahoma State? You mentioned there weren't a lot of teams after you, but, you know, nowadays it's so different with Nil. And I mean, it's completely different. Was there a fun or interesting, interesting story in your recruiting process for them?
- [06:33]
Barry Sanders
Oh, yeah. Well, the guy, the guy who showed me around on my visit was Thurman Thomas's suite mate. And so I remember as a high school senior and Thurman had a monster year that year. Right. I think that would have been his sophomore year. And so I remember the guy's name was Kevin. Kevin took me to meet Thurman in Thurman's apartment and we, you know, we had a good, like 10 or 15 minute conversation and I was excited to meet Thurman. But it's funny because Thurman. Thurman, like, he never remembers that conversation ever happening. But I was a high school kid, and obviously he was in the middle of, you know, a Heisman Trophy type season, but I was really geeked to meet him. I didn't. I don't think I knew at that point that I was going to Oklahoma State. I didn't have a lot of offers. Oklahoma State was my best offer. And for me, just the fact that Thurman was there then, I was excited to be able to go and play in, you know, and play running back and sit in the running back room with someone like him, you know, and so that's. That's one of the biggest things I remember from my recruiting trip to Oklahoma State.
- [07:53]
Matt Leinert
Yeah, I was thinking, Jerry and I were talking about this when we knew you were going to come on. It's like some of the greatest backfields of all time and whether it's collegiate or pro. And I mentioned, like, Marcus and Charlie White over at usc. I think Marcus was like Charlie White's fullback, which is kind of crazy back then in the 70s.
- [08:08]
Barry Sanders
But, no, I watched that. I watched that.
- [08:10]
Matt Leinert
Did you watch that?
- [08:11]
Barry Sanders
Usc? Yeah, yeah. You mean, you know, Charles White, Anthony Davis, I mean. Yeah, I mean, yeah. So I w. I watched all those guys as a kid. And, you know, when. So. And like, when Marcus, you know, I remember him a little bit as. As when he was a freshman or whatever, playing fullback for Charles White. But his senior year.
- [08:31]
Matt Leinert
Oh, yeah.
- [08:31]
Barry Sanders
That's one of my favorite years of watching football. You know, like, they. They could do nothing with the guy, you know, and obviously he ran for 2,000 yards. And. And so I remember that year like it was yesterday. So anyways, yeah, no, they were.
- [08:44]
Matt Leinert
They were great. Marcus is awesome. You mentioned the Heisman and before, you know, we want to get into the NFL and stuff, but the Heisman year, you know, you rush for almost 3,000 yards. 1990, 1988. I've gotten to know you through the years because of being a part of the Heisman Club.
- [08:58]
Jerry Ferrara
I just.
- [08:58]
Matt Leinert
Just go back to that year and that night. And it's so different now because I remember my. My Heisman year, we're out in New York and, you know, we would go out and they give you a key to the city. Obviously, this is prior to that. So I would love to know what the day was like when you found out you won the Heisman Trophy. Were you in New York or. Or how did they do it back then in the late 80s.
- [09:20]
Barry Sanders
Well, I wasn't in New York because I had a game in Tokyo, right, that night against, they did this thing for maybe a window of like four years. It was called the Tokyo Bowl. So two college teams from the US Would go play in Japan. And so we had scheduled that game for December 3rd of 1988. Right. I mean, that, so you know how schedules are. They're made several years, or at least, at least a few, you know, a year or so in advance. So they weren't, you know, Oklahoma State wasn't thinking they'd have a Heisman Trophy winner or a candidate.
- [10:01]
Matt Leinert
Right.
- [10:02]
Barry Sanders
So I, I was in, I was in Japan. But, but in, in, you know, speaking of usc, you know, one of the favorites to win the Heisman that year was Rodney Pete, USC quarterback and, and Troy Aikman, UCLA quarterback. But, and so I happened to be in, in Japan when I, when I received the award. And, and I was, I was, you know, kind of patched in to the ceremonies, you know, and it was, it was all this stuff going on because Japan is like, I don't know, 13 hours ahead, right? So, I don't know, it was some ungodly hour of the night when I was, that's wild. Doing this ceremony. And, and, you know, it was, but it was one of those things where, you know, I, it was so much going on. I was so nervous and excited and all this sort of media stuff was very new to me, you know, because I sort of came on late, or at least as far as a conversation for a Heisman, I came on late that year. As far as being included in all that, you know, discussion and, and to end up winning it and being in, you know, in a foreign country, obviously, in the Japanese, they, you know, they had no idea what was going on. Right. You know, what's, what's the Heisman? Right. But, but it was, it was a special time. You know, I, I played with some great teammates who went along on the ride with me. You know, it was just a magical year. When you look at the numbers I was able to put up. Um, and, and being able to go be beyond what Marcus did, you know, and running for 2,000 yards, you know, it was just a really special, dynamic, magical year.
- [11:49]
Jerry Ferrara
So you mentioned some names there, and obviously I, I, I know so much about your career, but I always love when we have a guest coming on to look at their draft year. Right. Your draft year, first of all, you were at the draft, right? New York City. But I started, look, I mean, take us through that Night, because I look at the fir four of the first five picks. It was yourself, Troy Aikman, Derek Thomas, Deion Sanders. Then you mentioned Rodney Pete, later round pick, Steve Atwater. Just Dave. Mega. These names, right, are to me, like some of the names I grew up watching that, to me is one of the best draft. I, I can't think I could find at least a better first round. That draft was unbelievable to players that came out in 89.
- [12:30]
Barry Sanders
Absolutely. And some people may remember this, but Troy, he had signed with the Cowboys before the draft, right. I don't even know how that worked back then. Right.
- [12:42]
Jerry Ferrara
I think Jerry Jones was doing whatever he wanted.
- [12:43]
Barry Sanders
Right? Exactly. Yeah. But he had signed. He had signed with the Cowboys before the draft. I wasn't. I actually wasn't in New York. I was at home in Kansas. And the funny thing is, you know, this was before the days of cell phones, right? So I'm at the home that I grew up in and we have a home phone, but we, we have to tell people, hey, look, don't call because we're expecting, you know, this is draft day, you know, and we're expecting to go to Detroit or somewhere, but we don't want the, the phone lines being, being taken up, you know, so. So, yeah, don't call the house between these hours, whatever, you know, but it was just a crazy thing, man. You know, it was, you know, the town, my family, you know, we were all excited about it, but. But that was probably a few years before they started doing the go to New York thing.
- [13:40]
Matt Leinert
Hey, Barry, you know, I, I want to ask you this because again, like I said, you know, a big part of your story is obviously the retirement. And a lot of people say you were in your prime and you're, You're. In my opinion, I've probably told you this, but, like, I think you're the greatest running back to ever play, and you're the most humble superstar probably on the planet, which is so amazing.
- [14:04]
Jerry Ferrara
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Matt Leinert
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Jerry Ferrara
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Matt Leinert
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Jerry Ferrara
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Matt Leinert
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- [15:56]
Jerry Ferrara
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Matt Leinert
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- [15:59]
Barry Sanders
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- [16:01]
Matt Leinert
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- [16:08]
Jerry Ferrara
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- [16:10]
Matt Leinert
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- [16:19]
Jerry Ferrara
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Matt Leinert
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Jerry Ferrara
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- [16:38]
Jerry Ferrara
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- [16:46]
Matt Leinert
You know, I know you've talked about it, but just curious of like going back when you retired and now you know all these years later looking back, would would you change anything? And also how do you want like this next generation of players to kind of view your legacy and what you were able to Accomplish. And also just like, because the story's like, oh, gosh, he could have played more years and he would have broke this record and that record. How, how do you want to be remembered in that way?
- [17:12]
Barry Sanders
Oh, well, I mean, I'm, I think in my old age, you know, I'm careful.
- [17:17]
Matt Leinert
You're not that old there. You're not that old.
- [17:19]
Barry Sanders
I'm careful about saying, like, what I would have done different. I think, you know, I think that it was one of those things where after, you know, after a certain number of years of playing, you know, I, I kind of knew or understood in my mind that I wouldn't necessarily be a 15 year career guy, you know, and everyone's different as far as that, you know, and, and, but in understanding too, that, you know, I mean, 10 years, I mean, that's, that's still a pretty good stretch, right? But I just felt like at, at that, for me, at sort of at that year, eight or nine, I just had that understanding that, you know, I don't know that, you know, and obviously all those things depend on what's going on with the team. And I, you know, I don't really have any regret. Regrets as far as it. I, I think, I think just that drive and all those things, you know, you need to do on a daily basis to continue playing, you know, a lot of that just wasn't there anymore for me.
- [18:20]
Matt Leinert
Got it.
- [18:21]
Barry Sanders
And, and I had played the game all my life and I knew that that fire and determination and, you know, that, you know, that element that had to be there to line up all the time, you know, I knew that wasn't there at that point, you know, and so, and so as far as a legacy, you know, I think, I don't know, I think it's, you know, I mean, that's something that I always sort of have trouble explaining because it is something that is viewed in other people's eyes. I know for me, I attacked the game in a certain way. I loved being a player. It had such a great impression on me from a very early age. So the 10 years that I played in the NFL and then playing in college, I mean, those things were extremely, extremely special. Excuse me. It's special and unique. Like I said before, you know, I, as a kid, man, watching those USC running backs, you know, and Marcus Allen and Charles White and Anthony Davis and those guys and me living in Kansas, they were. USC was always on tv, right? So I was always watching them, but I was always a fan of running backs. Whether you're talking about USC running backs, or you're talking about, you know, Herschel Walker at Georgia or Billy Sims at Oklahoma or, or, or Tony, Tony Dorsett at the University of Pittsburgh. I mean, I just always love running backs, and the list can go on and on and on. So it was, it's great to be, you know, a part of that legacy of those type of players, you know, who had an impression on me, you know, so, so I, you know, I, I can't complain with how, you know, how things worked out with me, and really proud of, to be in that, in that group.
- [20:08]
Matt Leinert
Yeah, no, I, I, I mean, you're, you're just one of my favorite players ever. And I, I just know. I, and it's fun, too, because a lot of this generation, I have a son who's 19, and just like Barry, they're still watching Barry Sanders highlights and all that. So your legacy lives on. So you just mentioned a bunch of running backs. Every, every week we do a segment called Throwback 3, and we wanted to ask you your three favorite running backs. Great. Growing up, whether it was when you were a kid, you mentioned. Marcus, mentioned a couple SC guys, but whether it was when you're in high school or college, who were your top three running backs that you love watching growing up?
- [20:46]
Barry Sanders
I mean, the fir, the first one to really, I mean, I was always a fan of running backs. Right. So I, I, I, you know, I know we don't, we don't mention his name very often. Um, but O.J. was probably, you know, when. In his prime.
- [21:04]
Matt Leinert
Yeah, he was one of the best.
- [21:06]
Barry Sanders
You know. He was. Yeah. So, and then for, in that second on that list, I have to put Tony Dorset, you know, his junior and senior year at University of Pittsburgh. Those were the years that I was just starting to play organized football, and I understood that, you know, you know, how things were different back then. Right. You couldn't always tell if they said a guy was 6:1. He may be like 5:11, you know, or something like that. But I, but one thing I knew that, you know, Tony Dorset was a small guy. I didn't know what his size was, but I, but, you know, and so I just kind of identified with that as a kid. Like, okay, here's a guy. He's the smallest guy on the field, but the most dominant guy. Right. And so then, so, so anyway, answer your question. Tony Dorsett. And then number three. I mean, it's Marcus Allen. Yeah, right, Marcus Allen. I mean, like I said before, his, his, you know, his years at, at USC and his Heisman Trophy year, you know, of watching that as a fan, you know, just inspired me. You know, I was inspired when he went to the Raiders. He was, I think, the rookie of the year or super bowl mvp.
- [22:26]
Matt Leinert
Yep.
- [22:27]
Barry Sanders
Oh, and. And just, you know, watching that super bowl against the Raiders, Redskins, I still replay the Marcus Allen run in my head just because, you know, I was just a Raiders fan and a Marcus Allen fan and a fan of running backs. Right. So, anyway, so yes, those are my
- [22:44]
Matt Leinert
three OJ TD and Marcus Allen. We were debating on. We didn't know who you would pick. So that's a great three right there.
- [22:52]
Barry Sanders
It's tough for me to pick. I always loved all those guys. And there's a long list. I mean, Jim Brown, my dad always talked about Jim Brown and how none of these new running backs have anything on Jim Brown. All that thing. But that. Anyway. Yeah.
- [23:12]
Jerry Ferrara
So, Barry, one of the things too, since I guess, you know, recently you've spoken out so much about health stuff, and I know you, you know, suffered a heart attack in 2024, and you decide to be pretty public about your journey and your recovery. And you even appeared in the documentary the Making of a Heart Attack. You know what, obviously something like that is so, you know, such a big part of someone's life. What made you decide to be pretty public and open about what you went through?
- [23:41]
Barry Sanders
Well, what made me decide to be public to go public is just. I just believed it was an important conversation to have and important story to tell. You mentioned the making of a heart attack. I was able to partner with this company, Amgen, on that documentary and share my story, share this story of several other individuals who suffered heart attack and stroke and really just kind of get the word out. Because so many people are impacted by heart attack and stroke, but there's so many misconceptions about it as well. And so just being able to inform people and make sure that they have those conversations with their doctor, that that's really the only way to find out about where your bad cholesterol is or LDL C. And so there's a website you can go to the making of, Excuse me, attack heart disease.com documentary. You can find out testing options and things like that. But to answer your question, though, yeah, it was just an important message to tell and also because so many of us interact with the fans through our. Through our, our platform, our given platforms. It was just, you know, it was really just updating people on, on what had happened with me. And it's obviously, it has also Opened up a new kind of conversation with a lot of fans as well. Right. Because some people, you know, you know, some people have their own journeys in battles with heart disease. And so it's is done that also.
- [25:26]
Matt Leinert
Hey, Barry. Well, appreciate it. I'm glad you're doing well, man. Before we let you go, if, if you could play in any offense in today's NFL because it's definitely changed a lot, as you know. And we see even with your old team, right. Jameer Gibbs at Detroit has got a lot of, kind of what you were able to do. But if you could turn back time and play in an NFL offense in 20, 20, 26, which offense would you choose or coach? And I think it'd be. Be awesome to see you back in one of these offenses.
- [26:01]
Barry Sanders
Well, I love what we've been able to do in Detroit. They've assembled just great talent there. If I had to pick one, I'm going to go with the Niners. I feel like, I feel like if you think back over the last 10 years, even, you know, no offense, Matt, if you, you know, all the, well, all the conversation about passing and quarterbacks and all that over the last 10 years, the Niners are one of those few teams that they always been able to run the ball, right. They always have a scheme. I mean, Christian McCaffrey, he's taken it to a new level. But think back to, you know, Matt Berea, right. Or Raheem Mostert.
- [26:45]
Matt Leinert
I mean, Frank Gore.
- [26:46]
Barry Sanders
Yeah. You know, all those guys, you know, whoever you put in the backfield. Shanahan, he's figured out how to run the football, right. And he's, he's committed to it, you know, and that's always been a part of their offense. You know, George Kittle, he's going to catch his passes. And Debo, when he was there, he caught his passes, whatever. They, There just seemed to be enough balls to go around for all their skilled players. But they, but they've always been able to run the football in this past happy NFL that we see today, you know, so, so yeah, I, I think, you know, I think that would. If I had to choose one, then that would be it.
- [27:27]
Matt Leinert
How about Jerry?
- [27:27]
Jerry Ferrara
You might have led the league in passing and rushing yards in one season. With Shannon, you might have let. He might have won the different triple crowd, passing yard, receiving yards and rushing yards. Well, Barry, I can't thank you enough for taking the time. You know, you gotta go. Obviously, huge fans over here and we'd love to talk to you again in the future. But we also, we follow you even well after your NFL career. So all the best continued success and just thank you. Thank you for coming on.
- [27:54]
Barry Sanders
Hey guys, great to be here. Let's do it again sometime.
- [27:57]
Matt Leinert
And also, also been fun to watch all your kids, man, and all the success they've had in sports and all the stuff they're doing. It's been really fun to, to watch you kind of be a dad and a parent to all them too, man. So appreciate you coming on, dude.
- [28:09]
Barry Sanders
No. Hey, thanks for having me guys. Talk to you later.
- [28:15]
Matt Leinert
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- [29:15]
Barry Sanders
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- [29:46]
Jerry Ferrara
All right, Matt. You know, I don't know when it's going to stop for me because Bree's asked, but literally for the whole week I've just been walking around going, Barry fucking San, man. So we just Barry Sanders.
- [29:56]
Matt Leinert
Honestly, like I'm a kid in a candy store. There's only a handful of like, I love every guest that comes on and it's so cool to talk to people, but Barry Sanders is like, is my goat of goats. It's like Tom Brady, but just Barry Sanders is the most fun and one of the best players to ever grace this earth, man. And to have him on. And again, my Heisman brother, which is so cool. I've gotten to know Barry over the years and he's just a great guy. And man, how pumped man to be on throwbacks. That's pretty.
- [30:23]
Jerry Ferrara
And also like maybe one of the most humble. Oh yeah, you know, I don't want to call him a superstar, you know, otherworldly player and the most humble guy he is.
- [30:32]
Matt Leinert
Like, he's, he's a one of one player even in today's world. Like, you just, you can't like emulate what he did or similar what he did. He's, he's like, he's a Steph Curry, right? He's one of those guys that just, they come around once in a lifetime at that size and the ability and the cuts and the vision, all that there's just. And doing it like in the 90s, right. It's just, man, what a treat.
- [30:53]
Jerry Ferrara
Well, it makes you think, right? And we didn't really go there fully with him, but he is one of the biggest, if not the biggest sports what ifs. What if Barry Sanders didn't retire? You know what would have happened? Would he have messed? Emmett Smith went, you know, 11,000 yard straight seasons. Barry always had a thousand yards. Like how many thousand yard seasons in a row? How many 2000 yard seasons more would Barry have had? So to me, he's one of the biggest what ifs. But it does beg the question, Matt. And then we're going to talk about this right now on the way out. Your sports what ifs, whether it's retired young like Barry Sanders and even like a Luke Keakley, so to speak out, a great career or injury off the field stuff, all that in play. Who are some of your biggest sports what ifs?
- [31:40]
Matt Leinert
Yeah, this is, this is interesting because like you said, I think Barry's got to be right up there, number one, if not two. I think, I think the biggest one for me is Bo Jackson. And I think you go back and Bo Jackson was one of my favorite athletes of all time. You know, I've obviously like Kobe's my favorite athlete, like Bo Jackson because I was a baseball player growing up too, so I always like rooting for the. When he was in the Royals and I collected cards and we had the Bo nose when he had like the bat and the shoulder pads. Yeah, it's the most iconic. One of the most iconic cards of all time. I still have it. And you Know, he had that devastating, the hip injury. 91, I think it was a playoff game. He was out and he never returned. And at the time, I mean, his trajectory, Jerry, he was going to be the greatest dual sport athlete we've ever seen. Like, he was, he's, he's still in today's world. Like, if you think Bo Jackson, he's one of the greatest athletes of all time. He was, he had track speed. He was, you know, a Pro bowl running back. He probably would have won MVPs. He was an all star baseball player. And I think more just like the impact that he had from like an iconic standpoint, I, I, I truly believe this. If he would have played a normal career, you're looking at him like the Muhammad Ali's, the Michael Jordans, the Bo Jacksons, and just unfortunately, that injury just crushed him.
- [32:58]
Jerry Ferrara
You know what I do every now and then when I want to remember, but obviously the football stuff, but just if you're bored out there, go take a YouTube tour of Bo Jackson gunning people out on the fly from center and right field with the white socks. He has a throw. I think this, this throw might still be going on the fly, just gunning people out.
- [33:18]
Matt Leinert
The P. Where, the P. The one where he catches it and he runs up the wall. Like, there's like the most, like, he's just, he's a freak. Like, like, he's, that you, you can't play like, baseball and football. I mean, obviously Deion Sanders did it. He's probably the last great one too. But, like, Bo Jackson is out of this world, man. And, yeah, I mean, and Bo Jackson
- [33:36]
Jerry Ferrara
hitting home runs into the water fountain thing in Kansas City that they had in center field.
- [33:41]
Matt Leinert
I mean, dude, those, those baseball pants, like, just wrapped around his thighs that were like 50 inches wide, like that guy.
- [33:48]
Jerry Ferrara
So I got a few to throw at you. I'll throw two at you. And then if you want to come back with one with me, I'm gonna stick with football. And it's a quarterback. So I'm curious to hear you weigh in. I think we have to acknowledge, even though it might not be the physical specimen like a Bo Jackson was, but a physical specimen in the fact that he was a G. Andrew Luck man seven seasons.
- [34:10]
Matt Leinert
Yep.
- [34:10]
Jerry Ferrara
I, I think, like, he's, to me, those Colts teams were okay. I feel like he dragged them a little bit. I think his best receiver was T Y Hilton. You know, I think he dragged some of those teams. Got to imagine, if Andrew Luck stuck around, he would have made a few Super Bowls and won a league MVP at some point.
- [34:27]
Matt Leinert
He. Yeah, he retired at 29, which is crazy.
- [34:31]
Jerry Ferrara
And seven seasons.
- [34:32]
Matt Leinert
Yeah, we, we always say this. It was like there, there's. There's always been two or three. Like you can count on one hand when you're recruiting and evaluating college players coming out, like, who's a surefire number one pick. Very few happen. The consensus, and we're in 2026, and the consensus has always been he's the most surefire pick since Andrew Luck. Andrew Luck is.
- [34:55]
Jerry Ferrara
Was the no doubter.
- [34:56]
Matt Leinert
The no doubt you're going to plot. And he was going to the Colts, who were terrible. And I think they, I think they might have got to the playoffs year one or year two. Like, he, like, like there's very few quarterback literally can take a franchise that's dying and resurrect them solely by himself. And he was able to do that. We just don't see it very often. So, yeah, I mean, he was on that trajectory of, you know, the Peyton Mannings and like, what he was even what he was able to do in the seven years, like, and now like the longevity of these players. Like, he'd still be playing right now in year 13 or 14. And he's probably, you know, you probably say, like, oh, he's going to be top two or three of all time. And if he does play, what happens? You know, what happens to. To Mahomes? Does Mahomes ever get those Super Bowls? Does, you know, like, there's always the big what ifs if he plays, how does that affect and impact the other quarterbacks that were kind of in that era, you know, so, yeah, he's a big what if you have another one?
- [35:52]
Jerry Ferrara
I'm going to throw one. This one's a deeper cut. Okay. Might not be as iconic as a Barry Sanders or Bo Jackson, but if you are of the early 2000s era, like we are here at throwbacks. Anyone familiar with Brandon Roy? So Brandon Roy, now I know he. Now he had unfortunately degenerative knees. Like, he. There was no chance he would have been able to go any longer. Played six seasons. I always wonder, like, would he have been a Hall of Famer? Who knows? Kobe Bryant famously has called him the toughest cover and said that that Brandon Roy has no weaknesses in his game. And if Kobe Bryant was a true student of the game, is saying that about his player. You youngsters, if you're listening, go do another YouTube tour. Brandon Roy, he had the full bag. I think that term. Oh, he has a bag. Was Created for Brandon Roy because he had everything, dude.
- [36:47]
Matt Leinert
He was, I remember him in college and then. Yeah, he was like six. Six, right, Something like that. He played up in Portland. He played for the Blazer. Yeah. And I was just like, I was like, this dude is good. And you always heard, you always hear. And Kobe had the famous quote. But you have always heard these old head guys, right? Talk about, they're like, dude, Brandon Roy would have been one of the best to ever do it. And he was legit. Yeah, he just, I think staying. I have one more and then I have an honorable mention.
- [37:09]
Jerry Ferrara
Okay.
- [37:10]
Matt Leinert
Derek Rose is staying in the NBA. I think is. Is one of the biggest ones up there with Bo Jackson. He was like, he won. I think he's the youngest MVP ever in the NBA and was just carrying the Chicago Bulls. And I always wonder if he doesn't get hurt because he had the knee. And then it just, it just, it just was a snowball, right. He never got back to form, but it was like, that was kind of like LeBron's era. I just wonder if, if, if he would have stayed healthy, you know, in the east and all that going up against LeBron. And like, you always just wonder, like, would LeBron be LeBron to this day? Obviously LeBron's great, but it would have
- [37:46]
Jerry Ferrara
been some great Easter conference finals battle like Chicago.
- [37:49]
Matt Leinert
I mean, it was Jordan and then it's Derrick Rose and then. God. And I remember feeling gutted, man. Like every time he got hurt, I just remember, it's like, you know, he just always looked like he was like gonna CR. All that stuff. And I'm like, I just felt so bad for him because that guy was so funny. He was the face of the NBA. He would have been the face of the NBA right next to LeBron for a decade, you know, and just wonder how many, how many championships he would have won or how many of those Eastern Conference finals between he and Cleveland. You know, I think he would have
- [38:19]
Jerry Ferrara
got there because I also remember, you know, later in his career, he came to the Knicks, obviously, and he was still very productive. Obviously not the all star caliber he once was. But to see how productive he was with probably, I don't know what, 60 of his athleticism that he had maybe four or five years before. You know, you have to think that if that athleticism kept up with his brain and the way he knew how to play, it would have led to so many great things. And also one of the best two foot jumpers, meaning, like jumping off the two feet. Donovan Mitchell Kind of does it now. Like once Donovan Mitchell plants with two feet, he's throwing it on someone. But when Derrick Rose planted on two feet in transition, you had to look the out.
- [38:59]
Matt Leinert
Oh, I'm a two foot jumper too, Jerry. Just letting you know.
- [39:02]
Jerry Ferrara
I figured, well, I got, I have a two foot jumper.
- [39:05]
Matt Leinert
He's kind of the first like, like Russell Westbrook and you kind of look at like Russell Westbrook, you look at John Wall, right, where they're just so fast paced and all that. But like Derrick Rose was, I mean he was kind of the first to do that where you just, he just, he was unguardable. Like you could not guard him and he would take off from the free throw line and he would, I mean he was just a freakish talent and athlete and still like. I mean, yeah, just, just what if, right. What if he would have continued to play for them and, and remain healthy? My, my one honorable mention real quick is, is Ken Griffey and I just think, you know, he missed a lot of time, man in his prime with injuries and if he would have stayed relatively healthy. One, he did it the right way, right. I mean the best swing of all time in baseball. He's everybody's favorite player growing up. I think he would have shattered the home run record if he just, if he stayed healthy. He just missed a bunch of those years in his prime right, where then he just started trying to catch up and catch up. But people don't know this, man. Ken Griffey is, I mean I, I put him in the Mount Rushmore baseball. He's a top five player of all time. Yeah, he would have broke that record, man.
- [40:12]
Jerry Ferrara
So two sad one, I mean they're all sad because of injuries. Obviously we don't know what would have happened with Len Bias. Just think about like the number two pick of the draft passing away before he even plays a game. If that were to happen today, God forbid, and I hope it never happens again, social media would be a blade. It would be crazy. And then I was a big Reggie Lewis fan, even though I'm not a Celtics fan. Yeah, Reggie Lewis was one of my favorite players as a kid. But I have last one is, I'm not saying this is a what if, but I'm, I'm posing a case for you because I like what you did with Griffey there. You took someone whose numbers were amazing and you're thinking what would have happened without injury? What would have happened if Mike Tyson or a different kind of dude and didn't with all the Physical gifts, but didn't kind of go down some of the paths he went and going to jail and all that. What if Mike Tyson was like a Bernard Hopkins or just wired a little differently where it's just like, I go home, I go to sleep, I wake up, I fight again. What if he was just that? I mean, his run was pretty spectacular.
- [41:18]
Matt Leinert
I mean, I still look at. I still look at Tyson as the greatest fighter of all time. Yeah, I know, I know I'm not. I just. I think he's the most physically intimidating, dominant fighter of all time. And again, I'm not, you know, I'm not in the boxing world. That's just my opinion. But yeah, I think, yeah, I mean, if he's not eating ears and doing all sorts of.
- [41:36]
Jerry Ferrara
I leave that to the crowd. Is Mike Tyson. I'll look right for social media. I'm looking right at the camera. Is Mike Tyson one of these sports what ifs, I don't know, debate amongst yourself.
- [41:46]
Matt Leinert
The whole. I mean, we can get into the. Another segment. So whole Wally Pip stuff, right? If I was looking at like, what ifs. What if Drew Bledsoe never got hurt?
- [41:56]
Jerry Ferrara
I still remember that sideline hit. Was it. Was it Mo Lewis who hit him on the sideline?
- [42:01]
Matt Leinert
I don't know.
- [42:02]
Jerry Ferrara
Jets.
- [42:02]
Matt Leinert
What if Drew Bledsoe doesn't get hurt? Was great for the Patriots. Like, he was really good and like Brady literally went in that year and they won the super bowl and he never. I mean, it's. What it just. What if he doesn't get hurt? It's the craziest thing. Like, what happens to Tom Brady? He backs up for three or four. Like, he just.
- [42:19]
Jerry Ferrara
You never know. Poor Jets. They were responsible for the hit that put Drew Bledsoe out and sprung Tom Brady's career. So, Matt, let's just do a little housekeeping. You know, I'm sure you've talked about this at nauseam as this is air. We did a very fun segment last week. If you haven't listened to that show, go back and listen to it. We talked a lot of expansion teams. Great time. But then we talked about the Mike Evans, he's going to San Fran. The number you FaceTime, Larry Fitz all worked out. And that story you talked about being asked here or there over the years from sc like, hey, how about we. Can we un. Retire that? I mean, talk about viral. I can't go on my phone without seeing that story talked about somewhere else. What's life been like since going viral in that throwback story?
- [43:03]
Matt Leinert
Well, you know, just like. And subscribe to throwbacks and you'll get a lot of great stories from us.
- [43:08]
Jerry Ferrara
Yes, sir.
- [43:08]
Matt Leinert
Dude, it's hilarious, man. Like, I'm on a ski trip, you know, earlier in the week, and I'm getting blown up on my phone, like, all this stuff. And like, again, again, it must have been a slow news cycle because it's. It's not a hot take. I mean, I think pretty much, I think over. I mean, think about, like, 90% of people have agreed, like, 10, saying, oh, they just. They're just the haters that hate me and just talk about how I sucked in the NFL and that kind of stuff. Like, which is whatever. I. I do want to clarify, though, because I do think the way it was perceived is like, USC in recent times has asked me and I. I basically said, how you disrespect me like that? Absolutely fucking not. Like, like the context is one. I clarify. Lincoln has not asked me in the last five or six year. 5. They have not come to me. This isn't a recent thing, but there, There has been times. I've been gone 20 years from USC. There's been times earlier on where I said, hey, would you ever consider doing this? We got a kind of a big time prospect. And the answer then is the same as it is now. No, I will not. Unless it's one of my sons. Now, if they want to go and do it on them.
- [44:12]
Jerry Ferrara
And then.
- [44:13]
Matt Leinert
And then that would be complete disrespect if they don't ask. But, but just to clarify, like, I love usc. Lincoln, like, they've been great. It's just, I think people take it and they'd be like, how dare USC come at him in Alaska like that? That hasn't happened.
- [44:24]
Jerry Ferrara
But McAfee stirred the pot early. I think it was McAfee. First was Florio, then McAfee picked it up, stirred the pot some more, then it ended up on pti, and then it just went everywhere.
- [44:35]
Matt Leinert
I mean, crazy. I mean, listen, like, dude, it's. I. It's my favorite number of all time. I wore 11 growing up. That number represents what we were able to accomplish at usc, which is incredible. I was fortunate to accomplish a lot of things as a player, but also as a team. It's up in the Coliseum next to some of the greatest players to ever play. There's a lot of tradition there, and it's a complete honor for me to have that. And then I just said, in this day and age of athlete, it would really be hard for me to kind of like to give it up based on these players jumping around and doing stuff for money and this and that. And I think you asked me is it. Is it for sale? And it's just not for sale.
- [45:16]
Jerry Ferrara
It's not for sale.
- [45:17]
Matt Leinert
It's not for sale.
- [45:19]
Jerry Ferrara
Unless.
- [45:19]
Matt Leinert
Unless Casen and Cannon in about 12, 13 years are football phenom. So they want to go to usc, then go for it. They can. They can both wear it.
- [45:27]
Jerry Ferrara
Well, I think they got a shot. You know, I tried to think of what the acting example of that is. I always try to put it in my world. This is not fully my world because I don't have this honor, but I think the closest I've. I've come to it, not me personally, is so imagine if you're ex actor and they give you a star on the walk of fame, right? But now it's like 10, 20 years from now. It's like, hey, we've ran out of room. They got a movie, no more. And Chalamet, we're giving. Chalamet's ready for his star. Can we take your star off for a little while? We'll find you another place off a vine somewhere.
- [46:04]
Matt Leinert
And the answer is what?
- [46:06]
Jerry Ferrara
Fuck no, bro.
- [46:07]
Barry Sanders
Exactly.
- [46:08]
Jerry Ferrara
No.
- [46:08]
Matt Leinert
That's.
- [46:09]
Jerry Ferrara
That.
- [46:09]
Matt Leinert
Yeah, that's my.
- [46:11]
Jerry Ferrara
Yeah, that's the only thing I could come up with in the Hollywood world that would be the same thing. So you handled it well. It was a fun story. And we got more of that to come and I can't see. I can't wait to see what you go viral with next week. You had the gymnastics thing two weeks ago. You're on a viral heater, bro.
- [46:27]
Matt Leinert
I mean, let's just go, dude.
- [46:28]
Jerry Ferrara
Just.
- [46:29]
Matt Leinert
Anything for the show, buddy.
- [46:30]
Jerry Ferrara
Anything for the show. All right. We will be back next week. Thank you to Barry. Barry freaking Sanders. I'm not. I'm gonna stop saying it now.
- [46:38]
Matt Leinert
How cool is that? The goat.
- [46:40]
Jerry Ferrara
The goat.
- [46:44]
Matt Leinert
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- [47:13]
Barry Sanders
Experian.