Joseph Sikora Joins to Talk Power, Acting With Jerry, Friendship With 50 Cent and Being Tommy Egan

Summary

Throwbacks with Matt Leinart & Jerry Ferrara

Episode: Joseph Sikora Joins to Talk Power, Acting With Jerry, Friendship With 50 Cent and Being Tommy Egan
Date: November 6, 2025

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Episode Overview

This episode bridges sports, acting, and pop culture as hosts Matt Leinart and Jerry Ferrara welcome acclaimed actor Joseph Sikora—best known as Tommy Egan from “Power”—for an extended, candid conversation about the Power universe, the realities of show business, friendship with 50 Cent, behind-the-scenes stories, and the craft of acting. The hosts also riff on World Series aftermath, dynasties in sports, TV’s most unforgettable on-screen deaths, and play a lively game of sports/actor trivia.

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Highlights & Key Discussion Points

1. Post-World Series Sports Chat

(01:11–06:38)

• Matt & Jerry break down the recent World Series.
  • Dodgers praised for clutch, role-player performances more than star power:

    "It was the non-stars, right? The kind of forgotten guys that ended up stepping up and winning the World Series, man." – Matt (02:38)

  • Dodgers’ current dynasty compared to '90s Yankees.

    "Dodgers are now officially in '90s Yankee territory." – Jerry (03:55)

  • Insights into shifting TV ratings: MLB’s rise, NBA’s continuing struggles.

    “Baseball’s in a great spot right now. Major League Baseball's in a great spot. It was a great year.” – Matt (06:30)

2. Introducing Joseph Sikora (“Tommy”)

(06:38–13:13)

• Jerry recalls joining Power and meeting Joe:
  • Speaks highly of Joe’s acting and personal friendship; Power’s explosive success.
  • Jerry recalls the surrealness of being recognized for both Entourage (Turtle) and Power (Proctor):

    "I've run into an Entourage fan that's like, Turtle, what's up? And then I cross the street and it's a Power fan—Proctor..." – Jerry (12:21)

  • Shout-outs to Courtney Kemp (Power showrunner) and 50 Cent’s (Fif) real involvement as a producer.

3. Joseph Sikora on Tommy, Force, and Bringing Power to Chicago

(13:18–19:25)

• Joe discusses landing “Force” (Tommy’s spin-off) and creative pushback:
  • Gratitude for shifting to Chicago, his hometown, but saw creative struggles:

    "[First showrunner]... just not the right fit. I thought I was having a heart attack... it was just panic attacks." – Joe Sikora (16:49)

  • Fought for authenticity in Tommy’s story and Chicago’s depiction—did on-the-ground research, met with locals.

    > "...if we don't get blessed locally, we will not be accepted globally." – Joe Sikora (19:15)
    

  • Getting producer credit later helped him advocate for the character and narrative.

4. The Acting Process: Becoming & Leaving Tommy

(22:48–24:35)

• Matt asks about embodying intense characters:
  • Joe credits theater training for separating himself from roles; flips switch on/off easily.

    “Zero problem, zero. No problem whatsoever... you develop this muscle of flipping the light switch on and off.” – Joe Sikora (22:48)

  • Jerry and Joe reminisce about dialogue, dialect, and immersing in New York and Chicago cultures.

5. On-Screen Death: Killing Proctor, Behind the Scenes

(25:00–28:14)

• A deep-dive into the infamous Tommy-kills-Proctor scene:
  • Joe details filming it across two weeks, and the emotional/technical challenges:

    “I literally thought, man, people gonna hate me... we did it over two days.” – Joe Sikora (25:28)

  • Discusses collaborating with directors, script notes, and the importance of authenticity in violent scenes.

6. Craft, Fight Scenes & Set Injuries

(28:14–31:42)

• Joe and Jerry discuss the realities of shooting physical scenes:
  • Trust between actors is essential:

    “No actor wants to be getting their ass kicked on screen... but I always have the most trust with you.” – Jerry (28:54)

  • Recounting past injuries, the value of stunt doubles, the theater's discipline.

7. Friendship & Partnership with 50 Cent

(31:42–34:01)

• Joe fondly recalls first meeting 50 at G-Unit offices:

  “He just gives me the biggest hug, and he's like, ‘man, we're lucky to have you, man. That audition was crazy...’” – Joe Sikora (32:19)

  • Candid about “Fif’s” straight talk:

    “...to know you is to love you... but look, when you don't make me money no more, I ain't gonna with you.” – 50 Cent via Joe Sikora (33:14)

  • The story of 50 Cent shipping his own car for the Entourage cameo adds a character detail.

8. Collaborations, Working with Tom Cruise, and Never “Making It”

(35:41–39:08)

• Joe reflects on career highlights—Tom Cruise’s professionalism, ensemble work.

  • Humble, never feels “famous,” still pinching himself at opportunities.

    “I’ve never felt like I’ve made it... but I will say that I loved working with Tom Cruise so much.” – Joe Sikora (36:18)

• He treasures working with diverse creative teams, naming favorite co-stars.

9. Directing Ambitions & Storytelling

(39:08–41:39)

• Joe aspires to direct and produce—focuses on empowering his crews, collaborative storytelling.

  “Directing is really where I’m super comfortable and what I really love to do... I’d like to empower the rest of the crew so we can all kind of collaborate on these shots and tell the story.” – Joe Sikora (39:53)

10. Segment: Most Memorable TV Deaths

(42:14–47:53)

• Matt and Jerry draft their picks for “most memorable TV deaths”—mixing insight and playful banter.
  • Marissa (The OC) – Matt (43:03)
  • Scott from 90210 – Jerry (43:48)
  • Jack Pearson (This Is Us) – Matt (44:27)
  • Ned Stark (Game of Thrones) – Matt (45:28)
  • Wallace (The Wire), Hank Schrader (Breaking Bad), Chris Moltisanti (The Sopranos) – Jerry (46:18)
  • Honorable mentions:
    • Jerry’s own TV death as Proctor (“I’ve died a lot on camera.” – Jerry (47:34))
    • Matt’s wife’s on-screen death in “The Mentalist”

11. Twisted Tea Trivia and Sports Crossovers

(48:22–59:43)

• Annie Agar joins for trivia, actor-athlete hybrid questions.
  • Competitive banter, arguments over winning answers (especially around Terry Crews)
  • Fun fact exchanges, e.g. John David Washington played NFL football.

12. NFL What-If Game – “Combine Two Bad Teams to Make a Playoff Team”

(52:14–55:26)

• Debated which eliminated NFL teams, if combined, could make a playoff squad.
• Favorites included Bengals offense with Browns defense, Giants + Raiders, Cowboys offense with Browns defense.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On the emotional aftermath of Power’s infamous shootout:

  “I’ve rewatched it like 15 times to see if you... you’ve worked on your…” – Matt (08:43)
  “I literally thought, man, people gonna hate me.” – Joseph Sikora (25:28)

• On the challenge and fun of being typecast—twice:

  “How does it happen again, twice? It kind of disproves the theory…” – Jerry (13:07)

• On working with 50 Cent:

  “But look, when you don’t make me money no more, I ain’t gonna with you.” – 50 Cent via Joseph Sikora (33:14)

• On acting and identity:

  “Zero problem, zero. No problem whatsoever…you develop this muscle of flipping the light switch.” – Joseph Sikora on moving in/out of character (22:48)

• Competitive banter over trivia:

  “If I beat you at your own game, then you need to just stop.” – Matt (48:56)
  “What’s the old saying? Excuses are like buttholes. Everybody’s got one.” – Matt (59:51)

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• Post-World Series Recap: 01:11–06:38
• Intro to Joseph Sikora, Power, and Acting Career: 06:38–13:13
• Joseph Sikora on Force & Chicago: 13:18–19:25
• Portraying Tommy & Actor Instincts: 22:48–24:35
• Filming Proctor’s Death: 25:00–28:14
• Trust & Set Injuries: 28:14–31:42
• Working Relationship with 50 Cent: 31:42–34:01
• Reflections on Fame, Tom Cruise, and Ensemble Work: 35:41–39:08
• Directing Ambitions & Set Collaboration: 39:08–41:39
• Draft: Most Memorable TV Deaths: 42:14–47:53
• Twisted Tea Trivia (Actors x Athletes): 48:22–59:43
• NFL “Combine Two Teams” Game: 52:14–55:26

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Tone & Style

The hosts maintain a warm, relaxed, and playful rapport throughout, combining deep industry insights and authentic storytelling with friendly banter and sports-fan energy. Joseph Sikora’s candidness adds layers to the discussion—not only demystifying acting at the highest level, but making the creative struggles behind TV’s biggest hits accessible for all listeners.

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Summary Takeaways

• Joseph Sikora’s Tommy Egan remains an iconic, multi-dimensional TV antihero, shaped as much by the actor’s behind-the-scenes commitment as by creative battles for authenticity.
• 50 Cent’s authenticity as a producer is matched by his ruthless candor and loyalty to his creative partners.
• The intersection of acting and sports reveals surprising similarities: team dynamics, professional dedication, and preparation under pressure.
• TV deaths—both to those who portray them and those who watch—leave lasting impressions, becoming cultural touchstones that connect fans and creators alike.
• The episode’s blend of nostalgia, debate, inside baseball, and competition makes it an enjoyable must-listen for fans of sports, entertainment, and storytelling.

Transcript

[A]

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[B]

Me, to know you is to love you. You should have your own show. You're going to have your own show. But look, when you don't make me money no more, I ain't going to with you.

[A]

All right. Welcome to another episode of Throwbacks everybody. Appreciate you joining us today. Take a second. If you can follow us on all socials at Throwback show, go to the YouTube. You know I feel about this. Don't be afraid to subscribe. Hit the subscribe button. It cost you nothing. It's throwback show on YouTube. Zero. Well, first, aren't you gonna ask me.

[C]

How it feels to be a champion again?

[A]

How does it feel Matt Leiner to be a champion again?

[C]

It feels great, bro. It feels good.

[A]

Did you have any back to back at one point in that crazy game seven?

[C]

The whole game I doubted. Yeah, the whole game I doubted. Ninth inning, Miggy Roas up with one out. We're down one. Even in the extra needs I had doubt. But yeah, I mean obviously hell of a, hell of a, hell of a series. I think I, I tweeted it out. But it's got to be the greatest World Series of all time. I mean at least in modern day like from far as I can remember and some of the moments from both team and the defensive plays and the eliteness of, of the, the athleticism and the elite defense on both sides to me is what stood out. Like performances aside, like it was just incredible the Dodgers and all the plays that they made to win that game. Like just every play, like it's just. It doesn't happen that often.

[A]

Those are the things that jumped out to me. Obviously the Dodgers are loaded with stars and I think the Blue Jays may not. Besides Vlad don't have the stars but they have a really good top. Unbelievable top to bottom team.

[D]

But.

[A]

But the Dodger almost role player. They just made every single play.

[C]

Well all the by the way. Yeah. Like the players who don't make a lot of money in considering all the other Rojas clutch. Tommy Edmond defense, clutch. Kike Hernandez clutch. I mean Pais the catch.

[A]

That catch is insane. That's the end of the World Series.

[C]

Of that, by the way, it was absurd. That guy hit about that hit like 090 in the world Series. He got benched. So all of the. Will Smith. Will Smith, our catcher, arguably, I mean, caught every single inning. Like it was just again, yeah, Yamamoto and like all of these guys. But Bets really didn't show up that much at the plate. Freddie Freeman didn't really show up much of the plate. Ohtani. Ohtani will have a great game and then a bad game at the plate. Like telling you, man, the stars were. The stars did their job, but it was. It was. It was the. The non stars, right? The kind of forgotten guys that ended up stepping up and winning the World Series, man.

[A]

Well, was there anybody more in that situation, Matt? You know, bases loaded or whatever. It was one out, bottom of the inning. Like, where did you want that potential ground ball hit to? To me, it's Bets. Like, that was the mo. Like, hit it to anyone but Mookie Bets. And maybe you could get lucky here and beat out a double play. He the only guy that I knew, like, the minute it was hit up, the short, I'm like, game over.

[C]

Before you even game over, I was telling the wife, I'm like, okay, we double play wins. If not, we lose. Like, this is like, well. And having the one run lead was obviously huge because you could. You could sacrifice a run. But I was like, ground ball and it's over. And sure enough, a little chopper. I'm watching with the boys. I'm like, no, it's gonna happen. And then he. Dude, it was awesome, man.

[A]

So we got a great show. We got a great show for you guys playing. I'm gonna preview that in one second. Last impressions. For me, I was left with as far as the World Series going, you know what? Dodgers are now officially in 90s Yankee territory. I'm not trying to make this a Yankees thing, but dynasty. And what I mean by 90s Yankees is like, you just have to assume they're going to make the play or get the hit. And it's going to come from anywhere. It's going to come from Jim Laritz. It's going to come from Andy Pettit with a pickoff move to third. Right? They are just this season that they're going into now really will etch them amongst some of the great teams.

[C]

Three. Three titles in six years. I mean, it's in baseball, it's really hard to do. It's. They're. They're a dynasty and everybody is back.

[A]

And you listen, you're a Ratings guy. The ratings were through the roof and now everyone on Social is like, well, basketball's got a pro. Basketball's always had a problem in the last few years.

[C]

Basketball is hard to watch. And, and I love. And I know you're a basketball. I love, I love hoops. I love sports. I love, I love it. But it's like, it's just a hard watch for a lot of different reasons. And even the NBA playoffs are like, it's just, it's, it's, it's just not a great product in my opinion. And baseball, baseball, the great thing about baseball and what they've done is right the, the pitch clock, hey, let's shorten the games. It's too long, right? The three hour games. No one wants to see it sit through that. So they've done the things, they've tweaked the All Star format. Like they continue to do great. All Star game is great. They've continued to do things to adapt to 2025. The NBA is just the NBA. Like there's load management issues. There's, it's just, it's.

[A]

And a lot of threes.

[C]

It's, it's a lot of threes. It's a bad product. And the, the ratings, you know I'm at Fox, right? And we had the World Series and stuff.

[A]

Congrats by the way. Big Fox.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Good right now, huh?

[C]

Oh man. Steak and lobster. Steak and lobster. Toronto, la. Initially not a great ratings boost because Toronto being in Canada and something with the regional networks and stuff like that, it doesn't rate. It's just because it's in Canada. So like there was that. It's a little above my pay grade and obviously LA has Ohtani and all that so it's, it's a big market. But it's always like this needs to go six or seven and it went seven and then it had every moment you can imagine like a, you know, home runs, walk off home runs. Go ahead. Home runs in this, in game seven. So. And then you look. I think it was like 25 something million people watch that game. Like that's, that's, it's baseball. It's incredible. So shout out to mlb. I'm sad it's over.

[A]

Do not strike whatever you do. No, but it's not ruin this.

[C]

Baseball's in a great spot right now. Major League Baseball's in a great spot. It was a great year. Those guys go get some by the way. We'll see, we'll see in March for spring training right around the Corner.

[A]

So you know who else is in a good spot? Well, first and foremost, too, we got. We're going to be joined later with Annie Agar, as we do every week. We're going to do Twisted T trivia, and I think there might be a twist to it. So I hear a twist to the Twisted T trivia.

[C]

I mean, we're talking anything possible to allow you to get on the.

[A]

To get me a w. But someone else who's in good position. This is a very close personal friend of mine. You know, we have a lot of athletes on the show, but we also love when we have our actors on. I am one of them. Joe Shakura. If you don't recognize the name Joe Shakura, you should. You may know him as well as Tommy Egan, a character on Power. I was lucky enough to be on the show Power for six seasons, and Joe played an unbelievable character on that show. And now to the point where they have a whole universe now. Power has a universe with lots of spin offs and Joe stars and the title force Tommy Egan spinoff in Chicago. He came on to join us and I was flooded with memories because I remember when Power came my way, Entourage was just starting to end. And it was a. A small part at the time, but it was one of the only times I had a showrunner. Courtney Kemp, who's a close personal friend and in my opinion, one of the best showrunners in town, called me and said, I wrote something for you. It's kind of small right now, but trust me, it's going somewhere. Just have the faith. And you know what? Look, I'll be honest. Didn't pay a lot of money, didn't shoot in la, so I had to fly back and forth to New York all the time. But what was on the page was good. The show was starting to grow. It was 50 cent. And then once I started watching the show, I saw Joe and Omari Hardwick and I'm like, these guys are really good actors. There are a few spoilers. If you haven't taken part in the Power universe at all, there are a few spoilers. I'm just pointing it out there, but it's old by now. And famously, the Tommy character eliminates unalives. My character like it says on this mug, I'm gonna cancel.

[C]

Absolutely. Guns you down.

[A]

Guns me. It's one and one of your favorite shootouts now. It is.

[C]

I. I've rewatched it like 15 times to see if you. You've worked on your. It's great to see you guys it's great to see you guys on the screen together. And again, I. It's funny, Jerry, because, you know, you are. You are more turtle to me than a proctor. But it's being around you and knowing the success of that show, Power, and seeing the people that come up to you. And we've kind of talked about this, how you kind of, like, reinvent yourself in all these characters in these roles. Like, Proctor was. Proctor. Proctor was a big. Is a big deal. Like, there's a lot of people that see you only as Proctor, which is pretty. Which is pretty cool, I have to imagine, for you. And that's something that I think, you know, that. That we talk about with Joe is just, you know, these roles that you guys get to play. But it was. It was great to see you guys back together, just shooting the telling stories. It's. It's great, man. Joe's. Joe's a. And Joe's a badass mofo dude.

[A]

Yeah. And he's had a great career. He was in Reacher with Tom Cruise.

[C]

I mean, God, career is a beast.

[A]

True Detective Ozark. Great on Ozark. And needless to say, how I knew Power was going to be a big deal, Matt, I was in Vegas at summer league and USA Basketball. And back then, Power used to air on Saturday nights, right? Which is a testament to the show, because it blew up. It was airing on Saturday night, and.

[C]

Saturday, probably not the slot you want to be.

[A]

And I'm in Vegas at summer league, walking around the casino the next day after my first episode aired, and I'm sitting. I might have been playing blackjack, and I feel a giant hand clap me on the shoulder, and I turn around, I look, and it's lamarcus Aldridge. I'm like, oh, hey. He's like, you were awesome. You got Tommy out of jail last night. I'm like, okay, he watched it already. Then a couple of the NBA referees flag me down and are like, dude, you're the man. You got Tommy off out of prison. I'm like, oh, my God. This show is. Is starting to have that same thing that I knew once people started coming up to me with Entourage. And then lastly, Matt, the only time I got to make a tearful speech. When you are eliminated from the Power universe, the. They bring you to the table read. They all. They all. Basically, you do the table read, and then they bring you up and they clap for you, and they let you talk as, like, a dead person. So I got to do, like, my locker room speech of what an honor it was, and I said I wouldn't cry, and I cry. I tear.

[C]

You cried? You cried. You had a great run. What did you ever. Before we get into Joe, did you ever. What was your experience like with 50 cents? Did you ever cross paths with him? I know him and Joe are super tight.

[A]

We have an interesting history because 50 did a cameo on Entourage that was initially scripted for Kobe Bryant, but it was in season, and Kobe literally wrote back, I don't do anything in season but play basketball. So we had to change it from. It's the scene where my character, who's starting the Turtle, starting to feel emasculated and, like, I have no job. And then Vince buys him a Ferrari and his girlfriend, Jamie Lynn, buys him a Porsche. She's like, you guys think I'm losers. So he takes off in the Porsche, and pulling up next to him, which is now. One of the more famous memes on Social is 50, who says, I see you driving in your daddy's car. Looks. You look good, though. And he laughs and drives away. Entourage had money. We were going to get 50 whatever car he wanted. But 50 said, no, no, no. I'm going to ship my car out from New York and I want to be in my car. That was my first experience with 50. He also was in Las Vegas with me. And then when I come on to Power, I knew he was a character on the show and a producer, but how much is he really around? They always ask that with Wahlberg, too. How much is Wahlberg really around? And 50 is around every table reading. He's directed episodes.

[B]

He.

[D]

He.

[A]

His DNA, especially on them early seasons was there. So. And 50 and Joe and we talked to him about in the interview, became really tight. And also Google Joe Shakura Michael Jordan commercial and just enjoy because he's in a Michael Jordan commercial from, like, I think 89 early MJ commercial. So I think without further ado, we bring on Tommy, AKA Joe Shakura. So, Joe, real quick, you. You mentioned something interesting because, you know, when I came on Power, it was obviously a lot of Turtle stuff, but I've been in parts of New York and LA where I've run in the same hour. I've run into an Entourage fan that's like, Turtle, what's up? And then I cross the street and it's a Power fan proctor, and they don't know about each other. They don't watch the other show. So, like, if I ever was typecast. But how does it happen again? Twice? It kind of disproves the theory if. Because if it was a real theory. It shouldn't happen twice.

[B]

No.

[A]

And it only happened once.

[B]

But you did it real twice. Like I done it. I mean, it's. I'm Tommy. It's like, at least for the real fans or the majority of my fans, it's like, oh, when Tommy played the guy on Ozark. Oh, and Tommy plays the lawyer on Reasonable Doubt, whereas you are. Were Turtle and then you were Proctor and still are in some capacity. So to me, like, you kind of won that as a resurgence of, like, you are noted as truly as two different guys.

[A]

Well, that's one thing I wanted to. I never got the chance to really, as power ended. Like, I left New York and we never really got the chance to sit down. But that's one thing I want to ask you. When you get approached to do force and you're coming into season three, was it a no brainer for you because it is such a great character? And then I know, you know, the show is now in Chicago and you're such a Chicago guy. Like, what was your mindset? Was it just a no brainer? I'm in. Let's go, man.

[B]

It was weird. Like, I was happy to bring the show back to Chicago, but, you know, I've lived in New York now for most of my life.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And it was also like, why is Tommy going to Chicago? Does it really make sense? Exactly. Like, I want Chicago people to have work. I was really happy when. When the show ultimately came there, but then there was all this kind of like, it's so funny talking to you, Jerry, because it's like the rest of, like, the stuff. I was always like, I'm like, giving answers. Like, I'm like, oh, yes. And then this. And then the showrunner said this. And then these other actors. And I love everybody. And like, with you, I just want to talk with you. Like, we're having a beer.

[A]

That's what we're doing.

[B]

Oh, I know, man. And I should do a little bit more that. Well, I will say that the first season of the Power 4 show, because you know as well as I do, we talked about it over beer and pizza in. In. In Brooklyn, that I was like, that fifth had told me that he was so, you know, that he wanted the Tommy spin off from after season two.

[A]

Yeah. 50 always wanted the Tommy show. He always said that, yeah, Tommy wants.

[B]

To be a gangster. Tommy's against it. And so I think. And I appreciate that a lot. And he always fought for me. So I'm very grateful to 50, but for whatever Reason the show didn't go straight away. And then there was complications, and then there was Covid. And then. Then, you know, they announced there are only three seasons rather than the five seasons and all that stuff. So there were complications, but there was never hesitation necessarily. But because the first showrunner was a lovely guy. Just not the right fit. Yeah, that I stressed. I thought I was. Before I wrote out, like, five pages. Nobody was listening to me. I was a little boy who cried wolf that everybody's like, nah, he doesn't know what he's. Oh, and Joseph wants so much. Why is Joseph being difficult? He's usually so good. Um, and I was just like. But because I love the character. And I'm like, this is not the character. Like, I don't know if you notice Jerry or if that you even watch the Power.

[A]

I do.

[B]

But the. They were, like, trying to say, like, oh, this is when. When Tommy lived in Chicago. I'm like, what the fuck are you talking about? We already said Tommy. Like, he holds up a picture. He said, this is my dad when we lived in Flushing before we moved south side Jamaica.

[A]

Like, Theresy.

[B]

I was just like, what the fuck is happening? And, like, all the original things that they had, which I don't think I'm at liberty to say what the original things were. I was giving ideas left and right about how change this damn show to get it back on track to just to co alide with. With Tom even going to Chicago. I said, look, all right, if he goes to Chicago, rather than have him go back to see his crippled grandmother in a nursing home, why don't we have him, like, captured by the Serbs.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And brought to Chicago. Where? Why? Because in the original power show, remember, where were the Serbs from Chicago. So we're back in Chicago, and now he can get taken by these. And I'm just like. But nobody's listening to me. So I thought I was having a heart. Heart attack.

[A]

I know the feeling.

[B]

Happened twice. No, but truly I did. So I went to a cardiologist. I got my. I got my carotid test. I had the dye test put in me.

[A]

Oh, you were really bugging out.

[B]

I thought I was having heart attacks. It was just panic attacks. And so, yeah, I was freaking out, man. And then we get to set, and it's Covid, and I'm meeting all these lovely actors. And, you know, the writers are lovely people. In fact, Kirkland Morris, who wrote on the season, I'm still friends with, he's great guy. And. But I'm just Like what? Like, I just didn't get it. It just didn't get it. And then we were kind of rudderless by the end of that season. But I had, you know, some friends of mine that came back. I mean, I had Kieran Hawks, who, you know from directing the podcast.

[A]

Great director.

[B]

Yeah, phenomenal. And he directed so much of that first season. That kind of balanced me. I just didn't totally get it. But the fans did. They were okay. They were cool with it. But then we got Gary Lennon back for the second season. And Gary is this. He's the heart of this guy.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You know what I mean? He's the New York. This guy. He's a West. You know, he's. He's a Westie.

[A]

He's a Westie.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

He's. He's. I wouldn't want to push Gary Len into a corner. Like, I don't know what's going to come out of that guy. So I think that we got. And also stars, and I'm very grateful to Jeff Hirsch for this. And making me a producer on the second and third season, it allowed me the accessibility to be like, when Gary says, what do you see wrong? It's for me to press on a zoom button and talk to people. This is what I see wrong. This is how I see a solution. This is what Chicago is actually like. Now, granted, I haven't lived there for forever, Jer, but there's something that, you know, like, I went back early, I talked to cops and robbers. You know, I relearned where's. What's going on within gang land. I grew up in Chicago. There were nations. So you had folks nation and people nation. Then you had all these subsidiaries between them and people within the same nation. Yeah, they fought. It was like, minor discrepancies, but, like, you. You had hell to pay if the bigger people weren't like, yeah, are the BDS going to fight the BGDs? Are they going to fight within the SGD? Sure. Because you're talking about Latin folks and black folks, and when you're in the lockups, it's like, you know, people have to go here, but you're all folks, so, you know, you're going to be cool with these guys. But when that head. Those heads got broken off in the 90s to the early 2000s, it was all hell broke loose. And so I was just like, look, I get what we're doing, but we have to represent this city kind of correct, otherwise the city is not going to accept us. And if we don't get blessed locally. We will not be accepted globally.

[C]

Well, you got, you got.

[A]

Definitely got there.

[B]

And you got you.

[A]

I was about to say all that work on the New York accent and then you're like, tommy's from Chicago.

[B]

I thought he was from Chicago. What the. Well, also, I was the only person cast out in New York for. For the original Powers show.

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[A]

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[C]

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[B]

Zero problem, zero. No problem whatsoever. It's not a problem at all. And I think the big thing for me is that I came from the theater and that you can't survive doing, you know, a six month run or anything like that, being that character all the time. I mean, even Daniel Day Lewis, like, I don't know, man. I don't know if I, I buy that he stayed in that like that for the whole time.

[A]

Was he Lincoln the whole time? Right. Was he Lincoln the whole time?

[B]

Maybe he did. And that's cool. And I. But there's also a thing within the theater community where you go out afterwards and you hang out afterwards and you kind of develop this muscle of flipping the light switch on and off. I always said that in the power show, I kept Tommy as close as I needed him. My first obligation was for the truth in Tommy. I didn't produce that show. I was just dedicated to the acting part. So if the actor for me meant to go visit Southside, Jamaica, meant to go hang out On Guy Brewer, it meant to be in some of those parks and on those streets and meeting those people and talking to see what's the reality of where Tommy Egan would have come from. And the reality is a lot of guys that I met, even though Tommy has a very specific dialect that's very New York. And I'm glad. God bless Michael Rapaport for saying that. He couldn't believe that I wasn't from New York. So that gave me a lot of confidence. But Tommy being from the hood in the way of, like, I still based Tommy, from what I heard. And that was that these guys, these white kids from the hood, men that I met still a lot of times had a default to kind of just sounding like a teamster, but. But it would be, like, influence because they grew up in that community. It was like. It had to be like, it was no thought at all. Or like. Like, why is this guy be like this? You know, I'm saying it's like, there has to be like, yo, what's this guy here? But, like, what's this guy here? Like, why is he here?

[C]

I love it.

[B]

I don't understand. You know, I mean, you got to explain to me, like, four or whatever, but, like. But there's still that. There's. It's. It's. I think it's a delicate calibration that. That took a lot of experience to. To behind the eyes and in the streets to make sure it was right.

[C]

Well, you. You obviously play that role incredibly. So I want to go back to the scene where you kill my boy Jerry.

[A]

Only one who said he found it funny. The only guy in America.

[C]

Well, I found it funny because I'm like, dude, you're the worst shot I've ever seen on tv. Yeah, you. I mean, Jerry's fired off Proctor, fired off 50 rounds.

[A]

I didn't direct. See, I understand.

[C]

I'm just saying, as a fan.

[B]

What.

[C]

I don't. I generally don't know. Like, what is a process? Like, I mean, you've obviously killed off tons of people in your show, but, like, Jerry, like, what is that process? Like, when you find out you're killing off Proctor, Go back to that day, shooting that day. Are there any fun stories behind the scenes?

[B]

I literally thought, man, people gonna hate me. And we did it over two. Did over two days. Remember, Jared? Like, like a week difference or something?

[A]

Yeah, we did it.

[B]

And then we had to do the reverse coverage on it. My coverage. You were already dead, so it was my coverage. So you weren't in the. In the thing. So it was my coverage like two weeks later. And then the director, who. I'm not going to say the name.

[A]

Right, because, I mean, people.

[B]

Great. You could just look at the episode. He killed the episode. He was great. But he wanted me to say the line when he goes, this. This isn't over, Tommy. To me, just to me. To say, it is for you. He kept wanting me to hit you, but I didn't want to do it. I remember that I kept going, it is for you. Like, you know, like it is for you. You know, like it's not. It is for you, but it is for you. It like it is for you.

[A]

I just wanted to say it how.

[D]

I wanted to say it.

[B]

I was just like, I don't want to get. He's like, just as an option.

[C]

How many takes did you do of that?

[B]

It is for you. Quite a few. I couldn't. The shell casings was. Yeah, but the budget was high. I mean, our. Our budget on the fourth show was less than half, I think, about what the power show was by the end anyway.

[A]

Well, I think we had the luxury too, of knowing the show was coming to an end. So they were getting rid of the go ghosts. Penthouse, Right? So I guess Courtney and everyone was just like, you know what? If we're gonna get rid of it, let's destroy it. So we had this. It was hilarious.

[B]

I mean, it's. No noise complaints. Nothing, Nothing.

[A]

You walked out. You got away.

[B]

I walked out of here. I took the elevator down. But that said, one of the reasons why Jerry didn't Earth, why Proctor didn't get any real off on Tommy was like the awkwardness of, like, we. It was hard for me to think about a guy just not having. Who's got balls. I mean, Proctor had friggin balls. So it was hard for me to be like, he's taken such. Remember that. Remember that they had you behind the couch like this. And I was just like, yeah, yeah.

[A]

I don't.

[D]

Am I.

[B]

You know, so I. There's. There's a suspension. I think what Courtney did brilliantly and she did. She, you know, made that show brilliant. And also shout out to my boy Gary Lennon for, you know, especially coming in and doing really amazing work on that show. But what Courtney did, I think, brilliantly, she didn't make New York. She made New York to get blessed by New York, but she made New York adjacent. But she made it real. I mean, she worked her butt off and did an incredible job of making this, you know, dichotomous, complex world that it was real. And so I think that in our real world that was the truth. So it's not necessarily what would happen here. Right here in New York, where I am at 41st and park, don't come here. But. But was real in the power world and universe. So I appreciated that.

[A]

So I remember when I first came on season two. I. I watch. Right. But I had not. I didn't know you in real life. I knew some of your work beforehand.

[B]

I've obviously, the pregnant guy on Crazy Grey's Anatomy, that was your favorite.

[A]

When I get on, you know, season two and like then I meet you and I'm like, I. I feel like I understood you because we talked a lot about the theater and I was like, okay, I gotta like, I got a handle on who you are. Which ended up helping me so much because I think I was talking to Matt off the air. It's like, of course we have the death scene. I mean, you've put knives to my throat, you bent my arm back. And let me just tell you, like, no actor, you could tell me, do you enjoy getting beat up in the sea? It's not.

[B]

No, you.

[A]

It's part of a story. So you're happy to tell a story, but no actor wants to be getting their ass kicked on screen. But also it's like, I don't know, you hear stories like, people do get hurt when you're doing this. And like, I always have most. I've always had the most trust with you. Because I knew. No, maybe it's because I knew you came from the stage. Like, I just remember that one scene when you have my arm bent back for like four hours. We're shooting.

[C]

Yeah, yeah.

[B]

There's a lot.

[A]

Joe's bending my arm backwards for four hours.

[B]

Wall against a brick wall. Or it was like a metal up.

[A]

Against a brick cold wall. 30 degrees in New York. And I'm like, this could go horribly wrong. If it was with someone else. Like, it wouldn't have taken much to pop my shoulder out. And even when we're holding faith, I'm.

[B]

So into it because I'm so Tommy Jerry.

[A]

To make it real, I. Listen, I've gotten hurt before. You said you've gotten hurt. I've gotten hurt in fight scenes and stuff before. I've got.

[B]

I had my. I had my sternum crack.

[C]

Oh, geez.

[A]

Get your stir in. Jesus.

[B]

Well, you have a six foot, six over 200 pound guy actor that they talk you into doing this, the stunt with that. They're like, no, no, Because I've. I've done stunts my whole career and I'm really quite good at them. Very athletic. And I get it now. I have a stunt double. Dude, most of the time do that.

[A]

Yeah, you put the ice coffee down. Get out there.

[B]

But they talked me into. They're like, oh, this guy was a college athlete. And I should have said no. I should have said no. But, like, you know, the, the actor in us, this is before the power show. So I was just like, I need to get paid. I need my next. I want these. Maybe these people will like me better if I do this. But then I'm on the ground and I can't breathe, and I'm like, what the hell? And I'm like, I gotta go to the hospital. And then they're like, oh, we already sent your stunt double home. I'm like, well, you should not have done that.

[A]

That was a bad idea.

[B]

Yeah, so I got. That was one of, of several times I, I've gotten really hurt. But I. Again, coming from the theater and having to do that night after night after night. And if you mess that up with the person, you're screwing your whole company. You're screwing the whole performance. So it's like, there's no reason we made it look real because it's not up to me to make it look like it's hurting. It's up to you.

[A]

100% correct.

[C]

Jerry pulls hamstrings playing, you know, 40 year old Nova.

[A]

I've seen like, I, I've seen like Connolly broke his leg on set. Kevin Dillon broke his arm playing basketball, and I've seen bones break. You had your sternum broken. I mean, I'm not trying to sound like, oh, poor us, but like, I learned at a young age, let the stuntman do their job. Let's put the iced coffee and the smoothies down and let's, let's get in there and.

[B]

Yeah, but you were much more successful at a young age. Because I had to put it like this. I was in an interview with Morris Chestnut and he's just like, well, you know, you know, I've been doing it a long time too, Joseph. I said, yeah, I've been doing it as longer, longer than you, Morris. But you have been successful.

[C]

Joke. You mentioned 50 earlier. And you guys have built just an incredible, I mean, work relationship, friendship. Do you remember just initially meeting him and the memories you had and just how he's, how he's kind of just helped your career?

[B]

Yeah, I told. I remember, like, it was yesterday, man. We Went into the G Unit offices when they were on 40th and 8th. Omari and I went up to the office, and I had this guy who in my. Everybody who meets me, they're like, damn, Tom, you're so small. But, like, it was the exact.

[A]

You're not that small.

[B]

Well, I mean, because everybody wants Tommy to be six, two, and I'm five, ten and change. And I meet Fifth, and Fifth is a beast.

[C]

Yeah, he's a big dude.

[B]

Yoked. And he just gives me the biggest hug, and he's like, man, we're lucky to have you, man. That audition was crazy. And, like, all your audience, because I had. I auditioned five times for the Tommy roll, and it was just like the warmest, kindest thing then. He was always accessible. Now, do I think that he was totally upfront with me the whole time? No. He's an executive producer. They're doing a lot of things behind the scenes. But I never felt like he didn't have my best interests at heart in some sort of way. Now he's got gangster written all over him, and he really is a hustler, and there is a duplicity in that. But I gotta tell you, if it existed, and I'm no dummy. If it existed, I don't think that it was ever, ever malicious. And I. And I have had people that I felt are. Have been malicious. I will say this, though, too. Fifth said to me between seasons three, two, and three, where I said, jeff, I'm so grateful. This is the best. He's like, joe, look, to know you is to love you. You should have your own show. You're gonna have your own show. But, look, when you don't make me money no more, I ain't gonna. With you just telling me, keeping it real. And he kept it real. I still. I'm glad I'm still making the money. This. I can't stop now.

[A]

Listen, I've had, like, the weirdest relationship with him because he did a cameo in Power, where he pulls up next to me. Now, it's one of the more famous memes of him pulling away, laughing at me. But he's Entourage, and he. He shipped out his own car. Like, we had big budgets on entourage, like 50. We could get you whatever car you want. He's like, no, I'm bringing. He shipped out from the east coast his own car for that scene. And I just remember, like, that's such a. Interesting move. And then when I saw that he was doing Power, I'm like, this dude. I mean.

[B]

And Courtney is Such a huge fan of yours too, man. And I know that's real because she was just a fan of your acting, and I know that she tailored that role to you. But you. But you showed up and you showed out, man. You. I mean, you came. You came dedicated. I remember you were nervous. You were nervous, though, that first.

[A]

Wow.

[B]

A lot of legalese, dude. You were saying a lot of like. I was like, man. But I felt like I had your.

[C]

Like, is he gonna be good?

[A]

You saved me. And what? So Courtney can't.

[B]

Who?

[A]

You know, the only person, Joe, I. I. You know, you've been doing this 35 years. I'm not about 25 years, am I?

[B]

39.

[A]

39. God bless you. I'm like 25 or 6. Courtney's the only person who has ever said, hey, I'm gonna, like, write something for you. I got an idea. I think you're. I'm gonna write something for you. And actually called and sent over the material because she did it. I've had that said to me, you.

[B]

Gotta give love, man. You gotta give love.

[A]

I give so much love. But, Matt, my first day really is, you know, Joe's character, Tommy's locked up. They send me in as the fixer to get him out. Monologues of prosecutorial malfeasance. And, like, I'm looking words up. I know there was people at Stars who didn't think I could do it to begin with. So they were like, ha. See, we told you this guy can't to play a lawyer, and you crushed it. Well, Joe, again, being, like, giving was just like. I don't know, we had a few moments there where it just calmed down, and it's like, look, just say whatever, but just, you know what the intention is. Go do it. And that's. I mean, that was like, day two for me was me talking to you about prosecutorial malfeasance.

[B]

And look, now I'm playing a lawyer on the reasonable doubt thing. And I do think of you because I'm like, even in my. The deepest, like, most legalese stuff I have to say, I'm like, this is nothing like they gave Jerry. I'm doing a cake walk over.

[C]

Joe, is there.

[A]

I.

[C]

When I played football, always, like, even in, like, year seven, I'd always walk off the field, be like, damn. Like, that was. I got to play against Tom Brady or like, Ray Lewis. You know, you still have those moments as. And I'm sure. I know Jerry and I have talked about this, and. And when you look at your career and I Know, Tommy's been a big part of it, but you've had a great career. You've worked with just. You work with a lot of great people.

[A]

Is.

[C]

Is there someone that has stood out to you over your career that was like, holy, dude. Like, I made it. Like, this is my moment. Or, like, is there ever someone that's made you feel that way?

[B]

I don't know about. I've never felt any moment ever in my life, Matt, to be. Keep it real with dude that I've ever felt like I've made it. I still. When people are like, oh, and how does it feel to be famous? I'm like, who are you talking to? But. And that's being honest. And I. I've never felt that. But I will say that I loved working with Tom Cruise so much. I would love to do something else with Tom because Tom is just such a consummate professional, and he is like a little kid. Like, when people are like, oh, he's up to this, or he's up, I don't think that guy's up to anything. He just is so happy. He loves life. He loves making films. He loves film in general. And, like, did people get fired on Jack Reacher? I'm sure it seemed like it, but I think those were the people that didn't bring their A game and weren't, like, didn't want to be there or, like, had an attitude or didn't show up to play. You know what I mean? Like, play the A game. Like the Tom Brady. Like, these greats. Like, I think that probably, like, you. I mean, any professional athlete, I truly have nothing but admiration for being, you know, going through the Chicago park districts, you know, athletics and, you know, even people who were great in high school. I'm like, holy cow, you threw the ball how fast? That's unbelievable. So nothing but admiration for athletes. But I think in the same way that we're in these. This is not like boxing, where there's nowhere to hide, but on these team sports, where you can excel like you do in an ensemble in theater, I think that there is something to be said for, like, giving yourself over to that game, like, being. Being nothing but present for this one thing right now. Not thinking about your grocery list or your wife, but thinking about how to run that play, thinking about that. That tackle or that reception or whatever. Just being totally dedicated to the moment. I think there is such a similarity within what both of us do. So to me, the best was, like, working with somebody like Tom Cruise and my buddy Jai Courtney, who was in the Reacher show, who's still one of my dearest friends. But then truly, like, working with Jerry. Like, I didn't even watch Entourage, but I knew who the fuck Turtle was.

[C]

I'm like, oh, everyone knows who Turtle is.

[B]

But I wanted to know what this guy's about, like, how. And he was so dedicated to making this great character that was like, I love this guy. Working with Dom Lombard, Dominic Lombardozzi, who I've loved and everything with my man Joe Perino, Chris Tardio. Now, like, all of. I don't just love Italians, by the way.

[A]

I know Tardio for, like, 30 years, by the way. I know Tardio for a very long time.

[B]

He is so good in power.

[A]

Talented guy.

[B]

Where do you see him in the third season? I mean, he's just. He's so. Why that guy? He's such a hand. He's this handsome Italian guy from Brooklyn.

[A]

Staten Island.

[C]

Yeah. I born.

[B]

Born in Brooklyn, raised in Staten Island. He loves to make the. Exactly. Jerry's just like, nana, Staten island, bro. It might have been born in Bensonhurst, but you. You were raised in Staten Island. I think about you every time I go to Bay Ridge, by the way.

[A]

That's my neighborhood. You know, we're going to let you go, but I have to ask because this. I get excited about stuff like this, and I know you got your production company now, and I know directing is something that you. You talked about and want to do. And, like, I remember when Entourage was ending, I spent a lot of time in the writers room because I wanted to write, and I'm fortunate enough. I got to write a few episodes, and that's sort of a part of my life. But I just. To me, you're a storyteller at heart. Like, you're a great actor, but I think also you are a story. Even, like on this pod today, the way you're telling stories is just. It's just a little different than normal. So I want to hear a little more. Like, is that just something that you're gonna. I mean, acting will always be there and something you're always going to do because you're great at it. But, I mean, I could see you behind the camera.

[C]

Crushing.

[B]

Yeah, man. Directing is. Is really where I'm super comfortable and what I really love to do. I also have, you know, all those wonderful hours I got to spend not only on the power show, but over all of these years as an actor, but really in the power show, when you have. When you're respected in that way, you know, as well, as I do, Jerry, that. It's like, you have to be at that upper echelon, a couple of numbers where you can ask you, oh, anybody can ask anybody anything. You can. But if you're like me, you don't have confidence to slow down their day or take any of their time or whatever. But I ended up being able to ask, so I know what everybody does on set. And so I. I feel like I can go as far as they want me to go. If they want me to ask for specific lenses, I can. Or I can let. I can do a little bit of both, or I can let the DP tell the DP how I'm feeling, how. How the movement. I wanted it to go through this story right now. I want something that's going to be a little bit more jolted right now. So, you know, can we do. Can we. You know, if they say, well, do you want. You know, I'm like, yes, of course. I want a handheld, but I want you to suggest it, because that's your job. I think through Gary Lennon, what I really understood the. What I tend to gravitate towards is empowerment. So I think what I see Gary doing a lot of times is like, you're great at this. So let me empower you to be the best gaffer you can be and have the most input that we can have from you, so you can do the best job you can. So. So I'd like to empower the rest of the crew so we can all kind of collaborate on these shots and tell the story. Ultimately, that I've put in a lot of time and a lot of passion and. And I'd love to do it. So I. I hope. I hope I get to do a bunch of Origins and hopefully, if there's, you know, any other stuff, but then, like, also other shows, because I. I feel like. I feel like that's where it lies for me. But also producing. I. Because I love the new story. We'll talk about it next time I'm on.

[C]

I'll say next time. Next time. When you do your own movie or show, you know, your first call over there to proc.

[A]

Well, and maybe I want to. Let me put hands on someone, finally.

[C]

Practice shooting and kill somebody on a show.

[B]

Okay.

[C]

Yeah, exactly. By the way, it's just. Before we let you go, it's great to see you guys together, man. This has been. It's always a treat for me to see Jerry wrap it up with his old buddies, dude. So we appreciate you coming on, man.

[A]

You're the Best, Joe.

[B]

When you got time in your back on the East Coast, Let me know when you're free for a meal or whatever. Jerry.

[A]

For sure, man.

[B]

Too long, man.

[A]

All right, buddy. Good luck, man. Season three.

[C]

You too, Joe.

[A]

Appreciate you, bro. All right, it's time for Fresh take of the Week, presented by Wendy's. Wake up with Wendy's breakfast. We've been on a good run with these fresh takes. This isn't necessarily a take, but in honor of Joe Shakura, who unalived Joe Proctor in power, we're gonna do greatest or most memorable TV deaths of all time. We're gonna pick three apiece and just discuss. And this could be the ones that really hit you, Maddie. Hit you right in all the fields. Maybe you cried. Maybe you threw something.

[C]

This was a challenging one because there's so many.

[A]

Why don't we go. Want to go one? I'll just pass it back.

[C]

Well, I'm gonna start with.

[A]

Go ahead.

[C]

I'm gonna start with Misha Barton.

[A]

Oh, you went to the O.C. i went to the O. California played.

[C]

Marissa Cooper from the O.C. she was killed off in the third season finale. I believe she died in a car crash.

[A]

Yes.

[C]

Caused by her ex boyfriend. Meaningful to me because that was like my teenage. Obviously, I grew up in those seas, so it was like Beverly Hills 90210, Melrose Place when I was a little younger. And then as I got a little bit older, you had the OC and all of those. So. Yeah, I mean, that was. That was. It was tragic. It's just tragic how that all went down.

[A]

So I always think of TV death sometimes as the actor. To me, I'm like, is that a. Is that a creative decision or a contract dispute?

[C]

Right, right.

[A]

And Misha Barton might have been a. That might have been a contract dispute, but. All right, you want me to throw one at you?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I'm gonna stick in that era because this one affected me. And you youngins might not know the original 90210. Scott playing around with dad's pistol, twirling it. There was a big thing like, someone's gonna die on 90210. Is it Brandon? Is it Dylan? It was Scott, unfortunately. But that. I was young for that one. That one stuck with me for a while.

[C]

One of the greatest TV series of all time, Beverly Hills 920. This one got me. This one, I cried. This was a show that my wife and I watched from start to finish. This is us and Jack and Jack Pearson.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

I mean, the. The show who if you haven't watched this is Us, go watch it. Because it's, like, the most relatable show if you just have a family and you're kind of going through everyday life.

[B]

Right?

[C]

That's. I think that was the draw. Manny Moore was great in it. Milo was great. Milo plays Jack Pearson. He dies in the house fire. Remember? He goes back in. I don't know if you ever saw the show, but.

[A]

Oh, I did.

[C]

And then. And then. Well, he comes out, and then he. I think he dies from, like, inhalation.

[A]

Smoking.

[C]

Smoke inhalation in the. In the hospital. But, man, I'll tell you what, dude, I was sobbing on that episode. Completely sobbing. That show made me cry every single episode.

[A]

That's by design. Let me just say. I'm with you on that. And also, the fire started. And every time Brie and I, we use this kitchen device, a lot started from a faulty crock pot. Okay.

[C]

Gotta be careful.

[A]

Every time Brie and I put the crock pot on, I'm just like, keep an eye on that thing. Keep an eye.

[C]

Oh, Jack Pearson, man, that one hit me hard.

[A]

All right, one more from you. All right.

[C]

My.

[B]

My.

[C]

Ned Stark. Game of Thrones. Game of Thrones, to me, is still the greatest show ever made, and I will. I will die on that hill. But Ned Stark is like the main character, the dad. He's the. Like, he's the guy, right? And then he gets beheaded, and you're like, holy, this show is tough. And that. I mean, talk about. I mean, you can name every death in that show is one of the greatest, most shocking deaths of all time. But Ned Stark set the tone. His death set the tone for what, in my opinion, is the greatest show to ever.

[A]

It was like a football team coming out, establishing the road. We're gonna show you what we're gonna do, and you try to stop it.

[C]

Well, the Red.

[A]

The red people.

[C]

The Red Wedding. Like, I could name that show.

[B]

I love.

[C]

There's so many. I mean, there's so many deaths in that one. We should. We should have a. A whole episode on Game of Thrones one day.

[A]

I'm down. I'm down.

[C]

All right.

[A]

For me, I go. Wallace from the Wire, which was played by young Michael B. Jordan. And who?

[B]

No idea.

[A]

13. Well, you got to watch the Wire, Matt. And it was. It was like two teenage friends, and one of them, through gang pressure, has to execute his boy. And they're like, 13 years. It was like. It's heartbreaking. And Michael B. Jordan was unbelievable. So that is on the list for me, I'm going Breaking Bad. But it's not Walter White. It's his brother in law, DEA agent Hank Schrader. That whole part in the desert when like Walter's handcuffed in the car and they're basically going to execute his brother in law in front of him. That one has always, always stayed with me. And we have to have a Sopranos cast member. There's so many. The one that always stood out to me because I love this character, Chris Moltisanti, AKA Michael Imperioli, where Tony Soprano had the golden opportunity where he could just make Christopher go away and actually not have to be worry about being caught for murder. So that one is always. I still. I can't even watch that episode.

[C]

Can I give two honorable mentions really quick?

[A]

Because I got one.

[C]

I want to give one honorable mention to you, Proctor.

[A]

Thank you. Thank you. I've died a lot on camera.

[C]

You've died a lot. And then also my wife, she played Agent Vega in the last season of the Mentalist, and she got. She got shot in the chest in a shootout in a restaurant, and she died on camera. I remember that was pretty cool. So, you know, shout out to Josie, the wife.

[A]

Well, the biggest contract dispute one was Charlie Sheen on two and a half. Oh, yeah, they came back next. He's like, oh, we got hit by a train. He got hit by a tree.

[C]

That's it.

[A]

And then they moved on from shout outs to Wendy's. That's our fresh take of the week. All right, Annie Agar joining us each and every week as she does courtesy of Twisted Tea. Grab a refreshing twisted Tea today, Annie. We're going to play twisted trivia today. Right now. We have a twist on it.

[D]

I've heard we have a twist on the twisted Trivia. Yes. Usually we do a little spin on twisted trivia, but this week we're gonna do not just NFL players for you guys. We're gonna do actors or some sort of sports reference actor that you have to figure out.

[C]

Is this just to try and help Jerry get back? Is this like.

[D]

It's basically leveling the playing field, you know? Okay, we're trying to. Yeah, we're trying to make.

[A]

Yeah, because when you answered one of the picture identity questions and you said, oh, yeah, I threw to him, that's when we knew maybe we're on uneven because I've never seen that dude without a helmet in my life.

[C]

If I beat you at your own game, then you need to just stop.

[A]

Well, here's my concern, Annie.

[C]

And I will just do this segment.

[A]

A lot of actors live in Manhattan beach, so I'm worried. It's good you're gonna show a picture.

[C]

I mean I do have an entertainment background, Jerry.

[D]

I mean I was gonna say isn't your wife like big in the acting space too?

[C]

She was.

[D]

And basically Matt's just got it covered on all angles.

[C]

So I. I would actually prefer to do acting entertainment.

[D]

Oh great. Jerry, you're screwed.

[A]

Before we get started. Real quick, Annie, what was worse, the packers loss or the helmet? Uniform choice. What was acceptable?

[D]

Did you see Romeo Dobbs helmet? How funny that looked.

[A]

I love.

[D]

I wasn't even the real leather. Everything sucked. My life is terrible and the Panthers are the best team in the NFL. Other than that things are great.

[A]

Guys, are you gonna do.

[C]

Why did I play Jordan Love in my fantasy this week? That was just a bad.

[D]

It's huge. He showed up like Brett Favre this week and he showed up like Bet.

[A]

FR from something about Mar.

[D]

I don't know if you. Yeah. Oh just those two throws were just God awful. Good news though. He did find the guy wide open in the end zone. Just wasn't our own guy.

[A]

That was one of the worst passes I've ever seen in my life.

[C]

And now they got. They got Philly this week. Ah man.

[D]

Everything's gonna be great. And the D traded with the Dolphins. Oh man.

[A]

Wait.

[C]

I have a. I have a. I have a dilemma. I have a question for both of you.

[A]

Interesting.

[C]

I have the opportunity to start Jordan Love because my guy's on a buy or Jackson dart. I gotta go dart.

[B]

Right.

[C]

His fantasy.

[D]

Who do the Giants play?

[A]

Doesn't matter. He's a rushing touchdown and a passing touchdown every week.

[C]

Yeah he is. He's getting like 30 points a week. I don't.

[D]

I would take him over because he's just one man band out there over Jordan Love who I know.

[C]

Okay.

[A]

And Matt, I got something for you real quick.

[C]

You sure do. What's up?

[A]

Our boy Danny Dimes returned back to normal a little bit. It was bound to happen. He's not going to play a perfect season but a lot was made too of oh he's outside on grass cold weather and I know like us non quarterbacks sometimes and betters read into that. Is that a thing? Because he was never good at Giant Stadium and that turf is the word. That field is the worst conditions are hard. Is he. Does the dome really help a guy like that? Because he looked horrible in Pittsburgh.

[C]

I would say I played with the perfect example. Kurt Warner and Kurt. Kurt was great. He's a Hall of Famer, but he was built to be a dome quarterback. He played in the old dome for the, for the Rams back in the day. The greatest show on turf. He went to New York, he played briefly for the Giants, and then he went to Arizona, which we had the dome. You know, we had a retractable, but we were always inside. There is a massive advantage for a quarterback in a dome that can consistently play in that. When you get to the weather games, that's why, that's why, like, teams will, will draft. Like, that's why the hand size thing comes in, which I think is so dumb. But you have to be able to throw and grip a ball when there are, you know, when it's weather. And so definitely, it definitely is something. I wouldn't attribute that to what Daniel Jones did this past weekend because it.

[A]

Wasn'T even that cold yet. It was like 40, like, what's going to be if he's going into Buffalo in the playoffs? Like, yikes.

[C]

Yeah. So there's something to the dome for sure. I, I don't think this was that, though. I think, like you said, I think you just, it was just one of those games, man. Sometimes you just have a game and it snowballs and you move on to the next.

[A]

Well, now I got something for both of you because I was thinking about this when I was having my morning coffee and we can do this quick before our trivia game because there's so to me, there's a bunch of teams that are crossed off for the playoffs. Maybe they could sneak in so we could debate that. But I was thinking if we had a draft where we were going to combine two teams who have absolutely zero shot, they're essentially out of the playoffs of this season. They're just playing for jobs and stats and because they get paid a lot of money, if we could combine two of those teams, is there any combination that would make an instant playoff team? Okay. And I thought about this long and hard and I have my two. Matt and I were debating Annie earlier, like, well, actually, Bengals. The Bengals do count as a team that's out.

[D]

Okay.

[A]

I don't know if I would be willing to count the Ravens yet. I, I, to me, they're still very.

[D]

Much alive on top of the division. Right.

[A]

But let's just be clear. Even though the 49ers, to Matt's point, off the air, the 49ers are in third place and they're 6 and 3. They are very much that division's insane. They count. So there's a few teams we could like. If you want to cheat, fine. But I have my two. Does anybody want to go first or should I be the guinea pig?

[D]

I feel like there are not that many that could cross over to answer your question. So I wonder if we'll have a couple of the same two who go first.

[A]

Yeah. Let's lead off.

[D]

I'm gonna go. I'm glad you said Bengals. I'm gonna start with the Bengals. I'm gonna take the Bengals offense and the Browns defense. You tell me that that is not one of the best combos in the NFL right now.

[C]

So you're taking flat. You're taking Flacco to lead you to a. I am.

[D]

I am.

[A]

Wow.

[D]

I think he's. Yeah, I think he's an absolutely insane.

[A]

I mean, the defense has been. See, I'm going even deeper with like. I'm going to select some defensive players.

[D]

Okay.

[A]

And I'm going to select some options really hard. This is my homer pick. I'm going with my New York Football Giants because to Matty Ice's point, you gotta have a qb and of all these bad teams, that's a good one. And there's some offensive weapons and defensive weapons I like. But the team, I think that's under the radar. They have some blue chippers and if you pair them is the Raiders. Give me Max Cross. Give me Brock Bowers.

[D]

They have just basically take all of them without Pete Carroll and they'd be great, essentially.

[A]

Well, we do have a coaching problem. It's either Dable or Carol. But I feel like if you combine the blue chippers of the Giants and the blue Chippers with the Raiders, that's like a 10 and 7 playoff team. Instantly. Boom.

[D]

That's a good one. Raiders is good.

[C]

That's not bad. I was going. I was going. See, I was more along the lines with Annie. I was just. I was splitting it down. One offense, one defense. Since you didn't specify clearly with this.

[A]

This is a copy thought at 7 o' clock in the.

[C]

Which is the most ridiculous question, but I'm going to go with the Cowboys offense and the Browns defense. Defense.

[D]

Yeah.

[C]

That's another guy you got. I mean Cowboys offense is really good. Their defense is trash. Browns and Miles Garrett. I'm a long lines of any. You need one. You need one player to disrupt a game and you have Miles Garrett. Raiders defect. I understand that. I'd take Miles over Max Crosby, but.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Yeah.

[D]

Yeah. That was really good.

[A]

Great Cowboys.

[D]

Yeah.

[A]

You didn't like this exercise.

[C]

I thought it was fantastic.

[D]

Got our brains going.

[A]

Matt clearly didn't like it. All right, let's go to some twisted tea trivia. I'll wait for your brain buster next listen that you can give us over coffee. Annie, what do you got for us today?

[D]

All right, are you guys ready? I'm very interested to see how this plays out. Who's in the acting department? Okay, question number one. We have three questions, two pictures. Again, question number one. Which team did Rod Tidwell play for?

[A]

Arizona.

[C]

Arizona.

[A]

Cardinals. Wow.

[D]

Jerry's at it. Yeah. Okay, question number two. Which team made their trick play the annexation of Puerto Rico famous in the last. Last minute win over the Cowboys? Which team?

[C]

Oh, my gosh.

[D]

Annexation of Puerto Rico over the Cowboys.

[A]

Eagles.

[C]

Little Giants.

[D]

Little Giants, yeah.

[A]

Oh, you hate the movies. Oh, shit. Oh, my God. I just watched that movie two weeks ago. Oh, my God.

[C]

By the way, I got Arizona car. Cardinals, too. That's fine, though. But.

[A]

Yeah, but as history has shown, you were way too slow.

[C]

I mean, we.

[A]

Wait.

[C]

I mean, we could go back to the tape. You started it, but I finished it. Faster.

[A]

I beat you by a full second.

[C]

Let's go.

[D]

Okay, tied at 11 and 1. Question number three. Which college did former number six overall pick Bo Call Callahan attend? Great movie.

[C]

Oh, gosh.

[A]

Oh, no. I just watched this, too.

[D]

Nobody came to his birthday party.

[A]

I know.

[C]

Wisconsin.

[D]

Yes. Good. I had to think about that one a second. That's great. That's a great question. Well done by our producer. Okay, two pictures now. Gentlemen, are you ready?

[A]

Yes.

[D]

Picture number one. Matt's up to one. Picture number one. Who is this person?

[A]

John David Washington.

[D]

Yes. Wow.

[A]

Come see me, boy.

[D]

I didn't know Denzel's son played.

[A]

He played NFL football. Correct.

[D]

Never knew that.

[A]

Love this. I love this category. Let's go.

[D]

All right, we're tied, two to.

[A]

Am I not doing picture number five?

[D]

This is to win it all. Here it is.

[C]

Terry Crews.

[A]

I got it. That's a tie.

[C]

No, it's not a tie.

[B]

Shut up.

[D]

I don't know if the audio lagged, but it sure sounded like Matt said it first.

[C]

Oh, that wasn't even close.

[A]

I couldn't have said it any quicker. I said it like a split second.

[C]

Thing with Arizona Cardinals. Jer. Same thing with Arizona Cardinals.

[A]

I was a full second ahead of you.

[C]

Eddie, are you. Eddie. Adam, are we. Are we serious here? That was not even close.

[A]

Eddie. Eddie and Adam, jump in real quick. Was Rod Tidwell a clear and decisive victory? Yes. Yes.

[B]

Yes.

[C]

Rod Tidwell was a clear and decisive.

[B]

Victory, but Jerry, unfortunately, Matt, wins the bag on Terry.

[C]

That wasn't even close. Are you deaf?

[A]

Yes, it was clear and decisive.

[B]

I'm sorry.

[A]

I tried the record.

[C]

Oh, my God.

[B]

It's been stated.

[C]

You can't even beat me at your own game. Look at Jerry's. Jerry, the competitiveness. And Jerry's actually starting to get a.

[B]

Little upset that it is widely understood that Jerry has the faster Internet of the two, by the way, so.

[D]

Matt, that's hilarious.

[C]

Yeah, by the way, I have.

[A]

How is that my fault that he has Boost Mobile or whatever is.

[C]

By the way, by the way, you are at a complete advantage and I still kicked your ass. That's the sad.

[A]

That's. You got to get off that weak WI fi. Matt. Come on, man. Upgrade the garage setup.

[C]

Hey, shout out to twisted T. Thank you, guys.

[A]

That was fun. I like this much better.

[D]

It's fun.

[A]

Much better than showing pictures of James.

[C]

It allows you to actually participate. I mean, we want you to participate. We'll give you a participation trophy as well.

[D]

Jerry. Matt, you can put it next to Matt Tisman.

[A]

They showed pictures of players you threw to in like in. In work that I've never seen without a helmet before.

[C]

Jerry, we've played nine weeks, nine games, whatever. And that was one photo. I'm up seven to two. So do you want to talk about the other ones that I want or just the one that you're hanging your hat on? On.

[A]

There are definitely some photos of some people that you.

[C]

By the way, Denzel, son, I had no idea who that was. And you won it. Great. But it's not how you start, it's how you finish.

[A]

I personally, those were so ups.

[C]

By the way.

[A]

Cruz is a very, very famous man.

[C]

Yeah, he's a famous man.

[A]

He hosts a hundred television shows. He is a very, very famous man. So it didn't really go obscure.

[C]

What's the old saying? Excuses are like buttholes. Everybody got one. Everyone has one. That's you. You never heard that?

[B]

Excuse me.

[A]

No, but I'm gonna use that now.

[D]

That's hilarious.

[A]

Annie, thank you very much for joining us. Good luck to your packages.

[D]

Thank you.

[A]

Gentlemen, where are you this week?

[C]

Where am I? Iowa.

[A]

Iowa.

[C]

Iowa, Oregon. Fun, great town.

[D]

Old heaven.

[A]

Is Gronk joining you again this week?

[C]

Gronk will not. We get Gronk about twice a year, actually. We have Michigan, Ohio State at the end and that. That's gonna be a three hour show with Gronk. And I think I think. Oh, a little birdie told me one, a goat might be coming on the show.

[D]

No way. Oh, that'd be electric.

[C]

No, that's, that's, that's in a month. I can't believe, by the way, we're in November. College football weeks. It's wild.

[D]

I know, because it's always around Thanksgiving. It's a weekend of Thanksgiving. Yeah.

[C]

I mean, championship weekend is first weekend of December, and then it's playoffs.

[A]

Real quick about goats. And I'm not going to go into this take because it, it, it captured me this morning. Lawrence Taylor. Lawrence Taylor has poked the only hole that I've ever heard that made me go. That's kind of interesting in the Tom Brady is not the goat conversation. Not saying I agree.

[D]

Interesting.

[A]

And he's probably being, like, an era guy. I played in this era, but his goat is Joe Montana, and he kind of equated it to, like, Brady's. LeBron. Montana is MJ. Never lost in the Super Bowl. Played in, like, a different era. Rules were different. You could literally, like, physically try to kill a quarterback. I'm not saying I agree. It just made me take another sip of my coffee and go, huh? Like, greatest career versus maybe how many rings?

[D]

Yeah.

[A]

Six MJs.

[C]

And how many does LeBron have?

[A]

Four.

[C]

Montana's got four. How many does Brady have?

[A]

Seven. He's seven. Taylor's also, like. He also is seven and three in the super bowl, which is amazing, but he lost three times. No one's ever touched Terry Bradshaw.

[C]

Also has four and four in the super bowl for the Steelers.

[A]

Hey, I'm not saying I'm agreeing. I'm just telling you something that made me take a sip of my coffee and go, that, that's interesting.

[D]

And I want no more part controversy in the morning.

[C]

Had an interesting morning, Jerry.

[D]

He has. I'm glad he gets to share it with us, man.

[C]

Yeah, I know a lot of thoughts that didn't go really anywhere, but it's okay.

[A]

And you know what? I, for the Jaden, I'm feeling more.

[D]

Confused than when I came on the podcast.

[A]

Did I confuse you guys this week?

[C]

I don't know what Jerry's doing, but I like to see when Jerry's in a good mood because the coffee's hitting right, for sure.

[A]

My take, my take of Jackson Dart needs to be rested by week 15. Still holds up because what happened to Jaden Danielson scared me terrible. I, I, I want Jack Dart protected at all.

[C]

He should have been out of the game, so it doesn't even matter.

[D]

Should have been. They punted. They punted it, like, down 38, 7. Get him out.

[A]

Anyway, I was gonna say thank you to Adam and Eddie for producing the show today and all that, but you know what? You guys sided against me when you jumped on the show, so no thanks to you. But thank you, Annie, Matt, safe travels, and we'll be back next week, guys, all right?