The Mackenzie Thomas Interview with Throwing Fits

Summary

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Throwing Fits x Mackenzie Thomas: Navigating Online Life, Vulnerability, and the E-Girl Experience

Podcast: Throwing Fits
Episode: The Mackenzie Thomas Interview
Date: July 20, 2026

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Episode Overview

This episode features Mackenzie Thomas—writer, artist, performer, and proud Bushwick E-girl—joining the Throwing Fits hosts for an honest, often hilarious and vulnerable conversation about online life, creative process, the state of New York’s youth, existential and medical crises, the one-woman show, and why being cringe is deeply punk. From her viral stunts and public persona to heartbreaks, psych ward stays, and cursed family drama, Mackenzie lays bare the messiness, anxieties, and accidental comedy of the modern creative spirit.

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Fit Check & Style Philosophy

[01:42–09:40]

• Mackenzie arrives in a backup Sailor Moon-inspired dress (knee high, from Café Forgot), daily-worn Repetto shoes (gifted from a friend), a personalized name necklace, and earrings from the dollar store.
  • "People are always like...but to me this is very French. Maybe it's the middle of the Venn diagram of French and Japanese, which is kind of large." — Mackenzie [01:50]
• Repettos are "basically" worn every day, despite being "thrash[ed]" and "stinky." [03:03]
• Her bag (by Nina Bo), shaped like a soccer ball, draws World Cup-related questions, though Mackenzie admits, "I really don’t care...it’s just fashion, babes." [07:22]
• Underwear shoutout: High-waisted black Primark panties—reliable and essential for big occasions [08:24].
• "I think I feel the same way about them that men do about Calvin Klein underwear." — Mackenzie [09:24]

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First Name Handle & Early Instagram Fame

[04:07–05:36]

• Mackenzie claims the @mackenzie Instagram handle as a teenager, after bravely asking Instagram’s then-CEO for it at a focus group—"A closed mouth doesn't get fed." [05:29]

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The Bushwick Girl, The Ridgewood Boys & The State of the Union

[09:44–19:02]

• On local friend Max ("I kept him in the breakup!") and straight guys' cultish Throwing Fits fandom [10:09]
• Mackenzie’s infamous tweet—"This gay homosexual behavior"—about a Throwing Fits meme. [13:39]
• Social geography: “Boys live in Ridgewood. Girls live in Bushwick. If you see a guy in Bushwick, he does NOT live there.” [14:23]
• Diagnosis: Young straight men are "in a really tough spot"—confused, poorly socialized, lacking emotional language and role models ("Michael Cera has a kid...they are lost"), and often skipping deodorant. [15:08–17:56]
  • “I feel like they’re very confused… they haven’t been supplied the language to understand their emotions.” [16:52]
  • “There are no beta male role models. Justin Long is in a floating OIC commercial!” [17:34]

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What Is an E-Girl in 2026?

[18:40–23:15]

• Not just an aesthetic—“A pillar. A certain posting style, a cultural figure.” [18:51]
• E-girls are broke: "We’re sending pictures of foods we wish we could eat—beautiful cake, beautiful sushi." [19:54]
• Favorites: real Red Bull, Chinese cigarettes ("You have to say a code word to get them under the bridge"), microdosable shroom gummies at parties [20:13–21:12]
  • “After walking around in jelly flats, your foot looks like it was put on a grill, but they’re so cute.” [22:26]
• "Ground zero for E-girl fashion is online—not a real place." [22:54]

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Amazon Carts, Comfort Purchases & Health Issues

[23:12–25:11]

• Recent Amazon cart: Collagen spray, hot pink satin sheets ("Into interesting sheets lately"), Medicube shampoo (Korean), and a book on anorexia [23:32].
• Medical struggles: tooth accident ("cracked on a cookie"), ongoing sickness, and a (likely vape-induced) staph infection during method acting. [25:06–27:10]
  • "If one molecule of evil enters my body—like, I’m done, yo." [26:25]

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Vulnerability, Internet Hate, and Writing the Self

[28:39–31:33]

• On online hate: "When I read a hate comment, I have the same thought: I’m not supposed to be in everybody’s hands." [29:54]
• "Sometimes confusion comes out in hatred. And that’s like, chill." [30:04]
• Interview Magazine sex party piece—garnered "a lot of hate comments," some fixated on her $400 Reformation dress (“That’s something I would wear to bed, not to a sex party!”) [31:06–34:14]
• “The only journalism I’m doing is about my own emotions.” [31:33]

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Life as Performance & Creating Art from Chaos

[37:51–38:30]

• "I don’t really try to force a narrative—every day has a beginning, middle, and end. You don’t need to force it."
• "My life—a movie. Sorry." [38:10]

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Sex Party Reporting: Realities vs. Reader Expectations

[34:14–41:52]

• The Interview Magazine sex party writeup was about personal experience, not voyeuristic detail.
• Readers wanted "more"—and were inexplicably mad about her dress.
  • “People wished that I went deeper, like in a sex way.” [34:22]
• Details cut from the piece: bulleted guest descriptions ("I’m sad that got cut. That was cute, and kind of vital.") [36:08]

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Dime Square, Downtown “Media Narratives”, and Writing on Gentrification

[39:39–41:52]

• Dime Square article (HighSnob): Most viral (and hated) piece; “I ended up having a really great time. Everybody’s normal. It’s just a high concentration of good bars and good restaurants—and no cars.” [40:46]

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Mental Health, Comedy School, and Breaking Down

[54:07–62:09]

• Emerson College, B.A. in comedy ("Comedy school was crazy. All comedians are mentally ill.") [51:10]
• Harsh, catty critiques; “I had a psychotic break" and ended up in the McLean hospital psych ward, subsisting on peanut butter sandwiches, grippy socks, and short phone chargers. [54:06–60:14]
  • “My next wife will be normal” T-shirt, Mario pajama pants, custom Air Force 1s—her psych ward fit check. [57:23]

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The Family Curse, Extreme Lows, and Life as Material

[62:16–66:22]

• Memoir hook: Her father loses a finger after touching a "Dybbuk box" in a Vegas haunted objects museum, then is diagnosed with stage III cancer, leading to a cascade of familial unraveling and her own psychiatric crisis.
  • “The loss of this finger unraveled our whole lives.” [62:32]
  • “I walked in on my mom having an affair with my dad’s best friend.” [66:06]

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The Four-Hour One-Woman Show & Process

[67:00–70:08]

• Sold-out play, “I Said What I Said”, structured around reading every tweet she made in 2025, intertwined with personal essays.
  • “Everybody cries and they laugh...I read every tweet for each month, then read an essay explaining what was actually happening.” [68:08]
• The play’s genesis: "I went through a breakup and I needed to read everything I tweeted to know what is wrong with me." [70:08]

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Self-Exposure, Regrets, and the Punkness of Earnestness

[75:21–76:21]

• “The most punk and cutting edge thing you could possibly do is be earnest, especially these days.” [75:24]
• Sometimes, self-cringe is the price: “I get high and embarrassed about things I’ve written...but it would be a complete self-betrayal if I deleted.” [75:57, 76:10]

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Cringe Millennial Behavior & Parasociality

[77:36–84:38]

• Top millennial cringe: Posting C-list celeb selfies on main. “Unless you met, like, The Rizzler or Cardi...otherwise, cringe.” [78:06]
• Mackenzie isn't plagued by creepy ‘parasocial’ reply guys: “There’s no mystery with me. Parasocial-ness is bred by mystery...girls message me saying ‘I don’t want to sound parasocial,’ which is sweet.” [83:59]
• Favorite reply guy: sends annual LA architecture book recommendations. [83:35]

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Heartbreak, Dating, and the Ethics of Being “The World’s Worst Ex-Girlfriend”

[84:41–87:04]

• "To love me, or to be close to loving me, you know you’re part of the project and you will be subject to capital T, capital P: The Mackenzie Thomas Project. And you will be subject to torture." [85:00]
• She tries not to name names but acknowledges, "the men who have wronged me… I would love to get them all in a room, focus group." [85:27]
• Admits to being a “good girlfriend to a fault” — working on boundaries. [86:10]

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The Big Red Flags, Dating Preferences & Sartorial Do's/Don'ts

[88:47–96:08]

• “Being unsure of yourself, creatively—disgusting to me.” [89:07]
• "Clout-chasing behavior...people like that don’t have a lot of real friendships.” [89:33]
• “Tell me how long all your best friends have been in your life—if that number’s under five, I can’t.” [90:14]
• Worst: Guys who talk about other women, or what they'd like to do to them, in front of her. “That’s crazy.” [91:18]
• Fashion: Prefers good t-shirts, jeans, and horizontal stripes, but says bad shorts can “ruin a guy utterly.” [94:45]
• “I like a good pair of dirty sneakers, and again, a good T-shirt—kind of the Bushwick gym fit.” [96:08]

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Summer of Safe, Not Slutty: Horniness, Friendship, and Karaoke

[97:59–103:48]

• Reflecting on “slutty summers past,” this year is her “SAFE summer”—single for the first time, focusing on friends and calm. [98:54]
• "This summer…I have been just digesting it really slowly. My summer playlist is very calm. The name is 'It's Quiet but the Heat has a Sound.'" [99:40]
• Karaoke pro: Favorites include "Cancer" by My Chemical Romance, "I'm Not Going to Teach Your Boyfriend How to Dance" by Black Kids, and "Santeria" by Sublime. [100:50]
• "Last summer I was just a hole for a loser. This summer, we're matured. It's not horny—it's sexy." [103:23]

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On Being Broke, Hustling, and Uncelebrated Labor

[104:04–107:22]

• LA years: Surviving on open-faced peanut butter sandwich, cucumber, and one chicken tender a day. [104:09]
• “I panicked about money every day for years. I will starve, sleep on a couch, do anything not to ask for money.” [106:17]
• Spends what she has on friends' and net artists' art (“I feel responsible to buy the art I want to see in the world.”)—latest acquisition: a painting of "two anime girls and a dog in bikinis." [107:30–108:24]
• Once got fired from a nonprofit “for making memes” that were “too negative.” [109:15]

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Astrology, Psychic Scams, & Final Thoughts

[110:24–112:37]

• Admits to paying $200 for a French psychic whose “answers did not come true.” [110:24]
• Astrology run-down: Sagittarius, Aquarius Moon, Leo Rising, Capricorn Venus (“one of the worst placements someone could have.”) [111:23–112:29]

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Memorable Quotes

• "The most punk and cutting-edge thing you could possibly do is be earnest." — Mackenzie [75:24]
• “You’re not supposed to be in everyone’s hands.” — Mackenzie [29:54]
• "I would love to get them all in a room. Focus group, but. On some anthropological shit." — Mackenzie (re: exes) [85:48]
• "There are no beta male role models. Michael Cera has a kid. They are lost." — Mackenzie [17:34]

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Notable Moments

• [41:13] On wishful thinking for editors: "Please, for the love of god, get someone on your HTML that can read the story in my tone of voice..."
• [57:23] Psych ward fit check: "My next wife will be normal" T-shirt and Mario pajama pants.
• [66:06] The family curse saga: father loses finger, gets cancer, and her family unravels after a cursed Vegas museum visit.
• [68:08] The one-woman show: reading a year of tweets out loud, matching them to life events.
• [99:40] The year's playlist: “It’s quiet but the heat has a sound.”

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Closing & Plugs

[114:17–116:15]

• Instagram: @mackenzie
• Twitter/X: @EvilMackenzie
• YouTube: Mackenzie Thomas
• Substack: "I Will Do Whatever I Want"
• Short film: I’m at Home — “30 days of self-surveillance”
• [115:13] Most embarrassing moment caught on film: Singing a Weezer song to herself, then crying.

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Constructive Criticism to the Hosts

[112:47–113:19]

• "You guys have just, like, really unbelievable voices. Like, you sound like guys on a podcast... You're like Car Talk. Not the content—just the voice." — Mackenzie Thomas

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Recommended for:
Listeners interested in creative process, the daily catastrophes and microdramas of online life, New York in the 2020s, vulnerability and self-revelation, the ethics of personal storytelling, and the philosophy of being extremely online while keeping your soul (and sense of humor) intact.

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End of summary

Transcript

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[Host 1]

Our guest this week is putting on a one woman show every damn day of her life. Anytime she puts pen to paper or viral stunts on you hoes, this Bushwick E girl makes a splash like Sea World and the only L she ever takes is 8th Avenue bound. Her public vulnerability has the whole Internet gag while hitting a stranger's vape and getting a staff infection as her gag. Here to chat, cringe, millennial online behavior, psych ward, grippy socks and being the world's worst ex girlfriend, writer, artist and performer. Mackenzie Thomas Mackenzie, how are you?

[Mackenzie Thomas]

Really good now. That was awesome.

[Host 1]

Thanks. Power of levels.

[Host 2]

That was. That was pretty exhaustive, right? Do we miss anything?

[Mackenzie Thomas]

No, I think it's kind of perfect. I think it's kind of perfect. Yeah.

[Host 1]

All right. Okay. Thank you for coming out in the heat wave to come on to the only podcast matters. Kick us off.

[Host 2]

Mackenzie, thank you again for joining us. We know you are super busy. You got a lot of motion digitally, IRL, etc. Can we do a quick little fit check?

[Mackenzie Thomas]

Yes. I was going to wear something completely different, but it was too hot today so I had to go with a backup Sailor Moon. Yeah, People, people are always like. But the thing to me, to me this is very French. Like it doesn't. It doesn't give Japanese to your. Maybe it's the middle of the Venn diagram of French and Japanese, which is kind of large.

[Host 1]

Fusion.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

Yeah, it's a fusion. I'm wearing a sailor dress from knee high that I got at Cafe Forgot last year. I saw it on their website and I was like, I really need this. And I was kind of like, dming them, like, please put one aside for me. Like, I really need.

[Host 2]

Is that you trying to finagle one for free?

[Mackenzie Thomas]

No comment on that. But no, I didn't get it for free. I paid full price for it.

[Host 2]

So it didn't work either way.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

No, but this is a sailor dress from knee high. And then on the bottom, I have the shoes that I wear every single day, which are my repettos that my friend Sophia gave me because I saw them at her front door of her apartment and I was like, oh. It's like, I really want. I really want those. I don't have the money for a bubble. And she goes, just take them.

[Host 3]

You.

[Host 1]

Only one pair?

[Mackenzie Thomas]

Only one.

[Host 1]

You wear them every day?

[Mackenzie Thomas]

Basically. Yeah.

[Host 1]

They fudgeing thrash.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

I mean, stinky. You look at the bottom of.

[Host 1]

Wait, they're not bad.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

Bottom of this shoe.

[Host 2]

Oh, yeah.

[Host 1]

Well, that's missing a toe.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

Yeah.

[Host 2]

We should get some taps on those. Dance.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

I know. And I have a good cobbler, too. I just, like, forget. I just. If. If I'm stepping in a puddle and my whole foot isn't getting wet, then I'm like, it's fine.

[Host 1]

Okay.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

Just the toe, you know?

[Host 1]

Just the toe.

[Host 2]

The bar is low.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

And then I have a little necklace that says my name. And I need. I was reminded today why I stopped wearing it. Because I was in the coffee shop for, like, two seconds, and a girl put up an amazing poster, and it said, like, scan this QR code if you've ever seen an anomaly in New York. And I was like, what do you mean by anomaly? She's like, an anomaly. But I'm like, that could mean a lot of things. And then she looked at my necklace and she goes, you're Mackenzie from Instagram. And I was like, fuck my life. Fudge my life. But yes, Mackenzie. Just in case I get lost, you having the one.

[Host 1]

The first name IG handle. That's an anomaly.

[Host 2]

Yeah.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

Yeah.

[Host 2]

How do you get that?

[Mackenzie Thomas]

I. When I was dm.

[Host 1]

Adam Mosseri.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

No, this is before Adam. Kevin.

[Host 1]

Oh.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

I used to. I've been in with Instagram for, like, a really long time.

[Host 2]

Must be nice.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

Yeah, it's like. It's really.

[Host 2]

We're shadow bands all the time, so.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

Really?

[Host 2]

Yeah.

[Host 1]

Every day.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

Yeah, actually. Yeah.

[Host 1]

Yeah.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

I feel like your stuff does well, right?

[Host 2]

Could be doing better.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

Okay, we'll talk. I. I, like, have been posting online in a bizarre way since I was probably, like, 13 and I was kind of one of the first people to really experiment with video on Instagram. And I, because of that, like, Instagram noticed. And then I would get invited to a lot of like, teen focus groups.

[Host 1]

Okay.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

And that's how I was on an island somewhere. Like. No, in an island called New York. This island. On this island. And I'll met Kevin, the old CEO. And I was feeling very brave and I came up to him at one of these focus groups and I was like, at McKenzie hasn't been used in years. Like, there's no. Give me that, Sonic. Can I have it?

[Host 2]

Give me.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

And he gave it to me.

[Host 2]

Sick.

[Host 1]

Wow.

[Host 2]

A closed mouth doesn't get fed.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

I mean, I would never do that now, but like, I don't know. God was with me.

[Host 1]

Just a little 16 year old in a sailor girl outfit, you know?

[Mackenzie Thomas]

No, literally, I remember what I was wearing too. And I like sold that dress a couple years ago. And I was like, it's a good one. It's like a neon floral 70s print shift dress. And I have been like, searching for Kevin.

[Host 1]

If you're listening, wherever you are, I

[Mackenzie Thomas]

don't know where he's at. On an island.

[Host 1]

Not this one. Yeah. What about the headband?

[Mackenzie Thomas]

Huh?

[Host 1]

Headband.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

Great story about the headband.

[Host 2]

Please.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

From a Halloween costume from college. It used to have alien antennas on it. But I was like, this is the best thinness of a headband with a fabulous kind of like velvet on it. The antlers must come off. So I cut them off of this headband. And it's from Party City.

[Host 1]

It's diy.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Host 2]

Who knew Party City had the accessories on lock? You just need to do a little DIY to make it work.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

I had a boyfriend and high school, and one of the things that kind of got me to like him, he was nagging me. But it worked. He was like, yeah, right.

[Host 2]

That's the point.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

Whenever I see you, I'm like, that girl gets all her clothes from Party City.

[Host 2]

Yeah. What a bar, dude. What a bar.

[Host 1]

Hey, we wear costumes every day.

[Host 3]

Yeah.

[Commercial Announcer]

Yeah.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

I was like, that's kind of true. Like, yeah. And then my earrings are just from

[Host 1]

the dollar Store, not Party City.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

No bag.

[Host 1]

What about the bag?

[Mackenzie Thomas]

Oh, I need to actually talk about the bag because the bag is getting me into a lot of trouble.

[Host 2]

Oh, right.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

This is from Nina Bo. They're like out of London. They're kind of new, but they're. I think it's run by like two sisters. And they make everything by hand. And this bag is A soccer ball. And I am not watching the World Cup. I really don't care. Facts.

[Host 2]

But everyone thinks you are.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

But everybody thinks I am. And people keep on asking me if this is like, for the World cup or anything. And I'm like, no. I just. I just think it's really.

[Host 1]

It's just fashion babes.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

I think it's fun. I think I like the black and white of it all. Like, I'm so sorry. Like, I don't. Is it over?

[Host 2]

No, no.

[Host 1]

Next this weekend will be.

[Host 2]

We're missing a semi final to podcast with you.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

Like, the last time I cared about the World Cup.

[Host 1]

Yeah.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

Was because of Shakira, of course. Waka waka. This time for Africa. Best song ever.

[Host 2]

Okay.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

Yeah, put it on.

[Host 1]

Who.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

Who's even making the song for this one? I don't know.

[Host 2]

Future.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

Okay.

[Host 1]

I think Bad Bunny's doing the Orchid boys. Doing. Doing the halftime show with Bieber.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

Really?

[Host 1]

Of the final on something like that Saturday.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

I love Justin Bieber.

[Host 1]

And to wrap up the fit check.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

Bra, panties, underwear is really interesting. No bra. I live in Bushwick, but what Deodorant. Of course.

[Host 1]

Okay.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

I live in Bushwick, but like, I.

[Host 1]

Not East Bushwick.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

I. Well, I live near Maria Hernandez, so who knows?

[Host 2]

Yeah.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

But like I. The panties, though, really important. I am obsessed with. This is crazy. In college, I went to college in Boston and the first Primark, which is like kind of like Walmart level British.

[Host 2]

TJ Maxx.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

TJ Maxx opened up near my college and we would all kind of go there and walk around when we were bored. And they sell the ugliest underwear, but they are so comfortable. If you're a woman and you're in England or Boston or wherever. A primer. There's one in downtown Boston. They're high waisted black underwear.

[Host 1]

Okay.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

You'll never go wrong. And I wear them on really important days. So I have them on right now.

[Host 2]

Is this the same pair from college?

[Mackenzie Thomas]

No.

[Host 2]

Okay.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

I actually want. The last time I was in London, I made sure that I went to Primark and I got like a 24 pack. I got so many of them.

[Host 1]

All right.

[Host 2]

Buying bulk, folks.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

I think I feel the same way about them that men do about like Calvin Klein and underwear in the sense that it's just reliable.

[Host 1]

In my Primarks.

[Host 2]

Yeah.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

In my. In literally my Primarks, they don't last long.

[Host 1]

Also, Party City doesn't really sell underwear, right?

[Mackenzie Thomas]

No, but I would try. Yeah, I would try.

[Host 2]

Depends on the costume you're sipping on

[Host 1]

some Poland Spring Bottled water. Let's get into the meat and potatoes of the own podcast manner. So, funnily enough, when we were chatting about getting you on here, you told two of your straight male friends about coming on Throwing fits and they went ballistic.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

Yes.

[Host 1]

How has your perception of them changed since you saw them squealing like little piggies and begging to come into the studio with you?

[Host 2]

Sad.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

Okay, so I have this friend.

[Host 2]

One.

[Host 1]

Oh, it's one friend.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

I told two people. But more. I have a. More of a story about one of them. I have a friend named Max. Shout out Max name for a straight.

[Host 1]

Why aren't you here?

[Mackenzie Thomas]

Well, I asked if he could come and you said absolutely not know where I know. He, he. He's always whatever.

[Host 2]

So Max doing the least.

[Host 1]

Always around.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

He. I met Max through an ex boyfriend of mine.

[Host 1]

Okay.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

And when I met him, I was like, we have to be best friends regardless. Our friendship has carried on post breakup.

[Commercial Announcer]

We.

[Host 1]

You kept him in the breakup?

[Mackenzie Thomas]

I did. Wow.

[Host 2]

Trader.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

We're. We are close and have like a relationship independent of whatever. And I kind of like always just tell him what's going on. Like he's an actor. Like, we were always just kind of like, oh, this is happening. Like, we're kind of always texting each other like lol, like champagne problems. Hahaha. And I was like, oh, I'm going on throwing fits. And he freaked the fuck out. He was like, no way, Mackenzie, what are you talking about? Like, he was like, I know everything about New York from listening to Throwing Fish.

[Host 2]

Hell yeah, buddy.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

And so. And he was like, I know this is crazy, but like. And none of my friends ever asked to come to anything like that is.

[Host 2]

Well, you're normally doing some bullshit probably, right?

[Mackenzie Thomas]

Not always doing some bullshit, but like, he was like, can I, can I come? And I was like, I'll ask, but they're gonna say no. And you said no.

[Host 2]

Where does he live?

[Mackenzie Thomas]

He lives in Ridgewood.

[Host 2]

Okay.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

Okay. Yeah, he lives in Ridgewood.

[Host 2]

Oh, he was just saying like all the cool stuff happening in New York, he learned.

[Commercial Announcer]

Yeah.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

Before. I think it was before he like lived here or like when he was in college.

[Host 2]

Oh, cool.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

He listened.

[Host 1]

Yo, there's this brand called Supreme.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

Yeah. Yeah, bro.

[Host 2]

Yo, you J. Crew is back again for the eighth time.

[Host 1]

Never left.

[Host 2]

Yeah.

[Host 1]

And you yourself, you've expressed some thoughts about throwing fits in the past.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

No, I have.

[Host 1]

Can we say more? What happened?

[Host 2]

Oh, yes. Here we go.

[Host 1]

We're almost getting like a rendition of your one woman show where you like read your Footprint out loud, right?

[Mackenzie Thomas]

Yes.

[Host 1]

Oh, there's a tweet.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

Yes. So you just. I don't. Okay. I don't know where. I'm like, I was like, maybe this was during, like, my anti metrosexual era, my life. Like, but it's not. It's actually a year before that.

[Host 1]

What year is this before you turn 2024.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

But the first days.

[Host 1]

Okay, early. It is early 24.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

No, no, last days of 2024.

[Host 1]

Okay.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

Date is 1210 24. So, yeah, so I was actually about to break up with my metrosexual boyfriend.

[Host 1]

What is met. What does metro look like in 2024?

[Mackenzie Thomas]

Just. Just evil. And I don't want to be near it.

[Host 2]

Okay. That's a pretty bold. I don't want to be general statement, but cool.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

So you guys posted a meme of two cardigans from I can't read the tags. And it says, not arguing with a girl who wears. Whatever. Whatever you say. Beautiful.

[Host 3]

Yeah.

[Host 2]

Yeah.

[Host 1]

Oh, the Agnes B.

[Host 2]

A class.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

Is it Agnes B? I think one of these buttons are wrong. The buttons are wrong. It's not Agnes B. And I retweeted the meme and I said this gay homosexual behavior

[Host 2]

factoid.

[Host 1]

Well, if you say gay homosexual, that's double gay. It's actually heterosexual.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

So it's actually. That's what I meant. That's what I meant. That's what I meant. Yeah, but yeah, I was the ex

[Host 1]

boyfriend, a big throwing Fitz guy, and you're like, fuck. Like, vicariously through us.

[Host 2]

Fuck them.

[Host 1]

So fudge him.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

I metrosexual. He knows of you guys.

[Host 1]

Okay? There's no Max. He's no Max.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

No, Max is ahead.

[Host 2]

No one else is Max. No one.

[Host 1]

Is that the only time he tweeted throwing fit?

[Mackenzie Thomas]

Shit, that's fire one time.

[Host 2]

We're going to retweet that the second you get out of here. Yeah.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

Please, please, please. This gay homosexual behavior.

[Host 1]

How are the metrosexuals? Asexuals? Homo, hetero. How are the Bushwick fellas doing these days?

[Mackenzie Thomas]

Okay.

[Host 1]

You're Bushwick girly, right?

[Host 2]

Yeah.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

Yes, yes.

[Host 1]

Okay.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

Bushwick girl.

[Host 1]

How the fellas doing?

[Mackenzie Thomas]

So this is the thing, actually. Boys live in Ridgewood and girls live in Bushwick.

[Host 2]

Got it. Okay.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

That's what's going on. Like, if you see a guy on the street in Bushwick, he does not live there.

[Host 2]

Men are from Mars, women are from Venus type shit.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

Exactly.

[Host 2]

Got it.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

But the thing is, like, boys. Oh, my God. There's a really weird hodgepodge of stuff Going on with them.

[Host 1]

Yeah.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

Um, I think that young men, young straight men are in a really tough spot right now.

[Host 1]

Oh, it's so hard.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

It's really, really hard. I'm seeing a lot of, like, Tevers, not worn ironically, worn in truth, which I don't know which is better or worse.

[Host 1]

Probably worn in truth is better.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

Not flip flops, Tevers, t. Things like Tevas. Like, people wearing, like, Merrells, but not in, like, a gorp core type of way. Like, I'm true to this. Like, I'm not new to this, like, type. I don't know. I know they're not showering or washing their hair.

[Host 1]

Have they discovered deodorant?

[Mackenzie Thomas]

No.

[Commercial Announcer]

Damn.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

I will walk around Maria Hernandez, and I'm like, where. I'm literally in. I'm the judge of a competition where everyone's like, let me smell like paprika.

[Host 2]

Yeah.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

Today.

[Host 1]

Paprika.

[Host 2]

That's what they're going with.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

Yeah.

[Host 2]

Okay.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

It's insane.

[Host 1]

Spices, are the boys being nice to the girls?

[Mackenzie Thomas]

No.

[Host 1]

Really? No.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

No. Boys are crazy right now. They are up. They are. And also, also, you're. You're meeting me at a point in my life where I'm kind of, like, aggressive about them, I feel.

[Host 1]

Are you, like, in your all men are trash phase?

[Mackenzie Thomas]

I'm. I think I'm. I've been in all men are trash phases before. I feel like I'm a couple steps away from that and like, a more analytical kind of stance towards it. Like, I like, I just. I think there's reasons why they are trash. And it's not boys acting out of malice or anything or just being rude because of the sake of being rude. There's something going on with society that's making them act like this that I. I can't.

[Host 2]

Societal problem from the top down.

[Host 1]

But how are they acting? Like, how are they acting in ways. Like, what's just some. Maybe some, like, indicators or smaller micro red flags. Not red flags, which is like, ways that they're acting. We're just like, shit sucks.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

I feel like they're very confused. They're very confused. I don't think boys know what they want, and I don't know that they have been supplied the language to understand their emotions. And so when they feel something inside of themselves about what they want to do, like what the move is, they get scared that they're feeling a feeling. And then they're like, I must rid myself. I must. I must wash my hands of whatever this is. And usually it has to do with a Girl that is a friend of mine and then she's crying in my bed.

[Host 2]

So the problem is starting. Like it's a know thyself thing. They literally do not understand what is happening.

[Commercial Announcer]

Well, because.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

Okay, so I'm like, around a lot of, like, beta males, you know, there's no beta male role models. Michael Cera has a kid. Like, you know, like, they are lost. They are lost. Like, they don't. They are like, like rooting around in the dark like they don't know what to do.

[Host 2]

Damn. Okay.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

They don't know. They are confused.

[Host 1]

Damn. More beta role model.

[Host 3]

Yeah.

[Host 2]

If you're a ass, be a role model.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

Something really going for you. Like, please speak up.

[Host 1]

Yeah. Stand on your chair and shout from the shout over, please.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

Like, it's like they're. They're. They're gone. I. Justin longs in a floating oic commercial.

[Host 2]

He is.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

Yes. He. No. And that's the thing.

[Host 1]

Oh, yeah.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

He's lost. There's no one for them too.

[Host 2]

Joseph Gordon Levitt.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

No.

[Host 1]

Hit record, please. Jason Biggs.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

They don't know who that is.

[Host 1]

He had a coke problem.

[Host 2]

Yeah, he was actually. He was actually pretty sick in alpha.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

Now that you mention problem alpha. Yeah.

[Host 2]

Okay, so we need ba. We need beta male role models. That's do absolutely tip of the spear stuff.

[Host 1]

Get up from your cuck chairs.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

Yeah. We need. We need beta male role models. Right.

[Commercial Announcer]

Right.

[Host 1]

Now. What about. Let's turn to the girls for a second. What's the state of the union for e girls in 2026? Is that an outdated term?

[Mackenzie Thomas]

No.

[Host 1]

I see like one of your headlines is like supreme. E Girl. E girl. Supreme.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

Yeah.

[Host 1]

Isn't every girl just E girl now if you're online?

[Mackenzie Thomas]

Yeah, I think. I think yes. But I also think that to. There are women that self identify as an E girl or like there's people that I would classify as like an E girl, which is like a online figure that is like a pillar. Like feminine ways or thoughts or postings of. Of, you know, can you walk us

[Host 1]

through, like, what you guys are eating, smoking, wearing, drugging, doing.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

Yeah. Listening to.

[Host 2]

Yeah, sure.

[Host 1]

Yeah.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

What's the first one?

[Host 2]

Eating.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

Eating. We're kind of scrounging around, rifling through the track, kind of going through our purses and seeing what's in there. I feel like what E girls are eating. I feel like there's things. I feel like a lot of us are really poor.

[Host 2]

Okay.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

So we have a lot of things that we would like to eat. Like, we're actually sending Pictures and images of things that we would like to eat if we had more money.

[Host 2]

Wow. That is.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

And that would be like, beautiful cake, beautiful sushi.

[Host 1]

Smoking.

[Host 2]

Oh, drinking.

[Host 1]

What are you drinking? Antifreeze. Like.

[Host 2]

Like enough water?

[Mackenzie Thomas]

I've water, yeah. But I've been back on Red Bull.

[Host 2]

Oh, wait. Sugar free or the. The OG Full.

[Host 1]

The good stuff.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

Full, raw, uncut, uncut, uncut. Red Bull.

[Host 2]

Nice.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

Okay.

[Host 1]

Basics.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

Yeah, it's so good. It's literally the greatest flavor ever invented.

[Host 1]

You ever had, like, non American Red Bull where it's like.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

Actually, I had a Chinese gasoline. I had a Chinese one the other day, and it was Chinese.

[Host 3]

Okay.

[Host 1]

Food. Oh, 26.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

We want Chinese cigarettes.

[Host 1]

They're cheap.

[Host 2]

They're cheap.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

Where are they at, though? There's a woman under. Under the bridge that sells.

[Host 1]

There's a whole town about 10 blocks that way.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

I know.

[Host 1]

Just south of Times Square.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

Yeah, there's a woman. I know there's a one. But someone was like, if you want like, the Chinese cigs, like, it's cash only. She's under the bridge. You have to like, say this code word and like, tap Three riddles.

[Host 1]

Cigarettes, please.

[Host 2]

She's a troll.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

Yeah, no, we're where. If you wanted to, like, drop an E. Girl.

[Host 1]

You guys can't. I would just, like, put a. Put up.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

Chinese. Sick. Beautiful sushi, beautiful cake. Red Bull, like, under a net. Like.

[Host 2]

Wow.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

There.

[Host 1]

Okay.

[Host 2]

Last meal.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

Yeah. Oh, God, that'd be so death row.

[Host 1]

What are the drugs? What are the E. Girl drugs right

[Mackenzie Thomas]

now, I think shroom gummies.

[Host 1]

Okay. So that's like food.

[Host 2]

That.

[Host 1]

That's a food too.

[Host 2]

Micro dosing. That or micro dosing. Okay.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

I have been really into microdosing Shroom gummies, like, daily? No, When I go to parties.

[Host 2]

Oh.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

And apparently I have the best time, but one of my friends was like, when you walk into a party and I. I can tell immediately when you're microdosing shrooms because you look like a.

[Host 1]

What does that mean?

[Mackenzie Thomas]

Like, I'm just like stone, but I feel like I miss smile. I feel like I miss smile. And I feel great. I. But apparently that's what matters.

[Host 2]

So everyone around you is like, this bitch is a fucking Buz.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

But you're like, wait, I'm.

[Host 1]

I'm this awesome resting micro dose face.

[Host 2]

Yeah.

[Host 1]

What are the e girls wearing? 2026.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

Well, look down. Everybody's got the Los Angeles apparel jelly flats on that at the end of the day after walking around. Because they have, like, kind of like the. The grid. Yeah, the ones I'll walk around. I usually wear those, too. I switch these two out.

[Host 1]

Okay.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

After walking around, there's a puddle.

[Host 1]

No matter what, your feet are getting wet.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

When you walk around Manhattan for a day. And those shoes, you peel them off foot. Looks like it was put on a grill. Like, it looks like it was put on a barbecue grill. But they're so cute. Like. Yeah. I, like, want them in every color. Like, we're definitely wearing those. I think, like, we're also. The existence of Los Angeles apparel has

[Host 1]

done so much for the community and Cafe Forgot.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

Yeah, yeah, of course. But they.

[Host 2]

Is that, like.

[Host 1]

Is that ground zero for, like, the E Girl fashion?

[Mackenzie Thomas]

I don't know. I think. I think ground zero for E Girl fashion, though, would be online.

[Host 1]

Okay.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

It wouldn't be a real place.

[Host 2]

It'll be on Depop.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

Yeah. Yeah, I, like, I'm on Depop. Like, more than Twitter, probably.

[Host 1]

Or, like, Amazon Wishlist, maybe.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

Yeah. I don't know. My Amazon cart is, like, so crazy.

[Host 1]

What's in there right now?

[Host 2]

Ooh, let's see. This is fun. A live reveal.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

Okay. I'm gonna be really.

[Host 1]

You can be up to your own discretion.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

Yeah, it's. It's. I mean.

[Host 2]

I mean, unless it's something really, really embarrassing, please do share.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

Okay.

[Host 2]

This is a fun game.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

DNR collagen spray.

[Host 1]

Collagen spray.

[Host 2]

What does that do?

[Mackenzie Thomas]

It's like a little spray that.

[Host 1]

For your face.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

For your face. Metacube shampoo.

[Host 2]

Okay.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

It's like a medical hot pink satin sheets.

[Host 1]

Is that shampoo for, like, medical grade stuff?

[Mackenzie Thomas]

No, it's, you know, Medicube. No, they're a skincare brand. They're Korean. They're great.

[Host 2]

So it's good.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

Yeah, it's the. Now they're making shampoo, and I'm like, that's amazing.

[Host 2]

Right? Oh, you're about to get out.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

Like, I have to get that.

[Host 2]

Wait, the sheets. What is that for a special occasion or you just.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

I'm really into, like, having interesting sheets recently. Like, I have this. I got on a whim. Betsey Johnson hot pink Pete Cheetah print sheets.

[Host 2]

Oh, nice.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

And they changed my life. So I'm like, I need. I need hot pink satin sheets. I need, like, any. I need.

[Commercial Announcer]

Just.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

Just. I need it.

[Host 2]

But it's for you.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

Yeah, it's for me.

[Host 1]

Live streaming your bedroom.

[Host 2]

Oh, that is true.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

Cordyceps. Okay, let me see if I have anything particularly funny. Starving to death in a sea of objects. Book on anorexia.

[Host 2]

Okay, we'll end it on that note, folks. Thank you so much, mackenzie, for coming through to the pod.

[Host 1]

Speaking of, let's run through your medical problems real quick.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

Yeah, let's do it.

[Host 1]

What flavor vape did you hit that gave you a staph infection? It was pink, so it's like a strawberry ice. What was it?

[Mackenzie Thomas]

I don't know. I. I was. I asked what flavor it was, but I forgot the answer.

[Host 1]

And what is a staph infection? Is it like, it's a viral. Is it contagious like this?

[Host 2]

Whoever.

[Host 1]

You had a staff, in fact, so it's, like, kind of a.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

Okay, so I'm just gonna. Oh, my God. It makes me sound like I'm just, like, so disgusting, but, like, I guess that's kind of true. I don't know.

[Host 2]

I mean, you're the one who got it.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

Yeah, I know. Okay, so I had a tooth that cracked.

[Host 1]

Okay.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

And it fell out of my mouth.

[Host 1]

All right.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

Okay. And I have been getting said tooth fixed for, like, three months.

[Commercial Announcer]

Okay.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

And so right now, I have an open hole in my mouth that is covered by a piece of white cement.

[Host 2]

Okay.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

It's this tooth right here.

[Host 1]

Oh, yeah.

[Host 2]

Okay.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

How do you crack it on, like, I was, like, playing dress up in my room and, like, eating a cookie, and I.

[Host 1]

Really. Stale cookie.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

Yeah. And it just, like, popped.

[Host 3]

Oh, my God.

[Host 2]

E Girl. Occupational hazard.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

Yeah. And I was like, that's crazy. And I've been getting it fixed, so I'm really susceptible right now to disease, and I've been getting sick every month since the beginning of the year.

[Host 1]

You're like a medieval peasant in the winter.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

Yes.

[Host 2]

Don't feed this chicken Doritos.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

It's been this whole thing, and if. If one molecule of evil enters my body, like, I'm done, yo.

[Host 1]

You know what? If any. If any hustlers are listening out there, become an E Girl dentist.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

Yes.

[Host 1]

Because, like, think about all the terrible food they're eating and vape they're smoking.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

Yes.

[Host 1]

And all the mushroom gummies that are full sugar, like, make a killing.

[Host 2]

Just a general practitioner for years, honestly.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

And, you know, I was doing improv to get a role in a movie. I did not get.

[Host 2]

Sorry.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

And I was improving with somebody, and I hit their vape because it was something that my character would have done.

[Host 2]

Oh, you were in character?

[Mackenzie Thomas]

Yeah.

[Host 1]

You're method acting.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

Yeah, I was possessed, and I was. I hit the vape, and then three days later, I got super sick, and I was like, there was only one foreign object that went into my body. I hadn't Kissed anybody or anything. And I'm like, it must be from the vape.

[Host 2]

Damn.

[Host 1]

Do you. Okay, did you. Did you. Oh, this is the person. Can you tell us who it is? Off mic.

[Host 2]

Oh, okay.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

Like, of tracks. Like, of course, of course. Like, of course, of course.

[Host 2]

Yep.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

Yeah.

[Host 1]

Tracks.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

Yeah, yeah, it tracks.

[Host 2]

Okay.

[Host 1]

All right.

[Host 2]

And when you get a staph infection, presumably from hitting said person vaped, is. Are you. Should you. Do you call that person and let them know?

[Mackenzie Thomas]

I don't. I don't want this person to know.

[Host 1]

Okay. Wait, so they could be spreading their staff infection all staff infection all over town?

[Host 2]

No. So they.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

Bigger fish to fry.

[Host 1]

He certainly does.

[Host 2]

So that person just has. Also has a staff infection, but they're not.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

Probably not. I think my immune system is just so weak right now because of this thing.

[Host 1]

Was it a Chinese vape?

[Mackenzie Thomas]

It was weird looking, but it wasn't Chinese. If it was Chinese, I. I would have hit it more.

[Host 1]

Made in America.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

Made in America. And the staph infection was also imported from an American person.

[Host 2]

Nice. Right, Right. To be clear, this all originated on home soil.

[Host 1]

At least you can get the explosive diarrhea from hitting that, you know, have you so like so much, your writing and your art, you. You're putting yourself out there in a really vulnerable way.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

Yes.

[Host 1]

That's scary. But got to know what is the meanest and most accurate thing anybody has ever commented about you on the Internet?

[Mackenzie Thomas]

I have to think about that.

[Host 1]

Do you read the comments?

[Host 2]

Yeah, of course you do.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

No.

[Host 2]

Really? Shocker.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

I. So I was on TikTok for a really long time. Started off on TikTok, like posting videos of me just like talking. And I would read the comments because I could like, handle it. Yeah, I would get hate comments and they would like really affect me. But this is also when I was like 22. And how do you know? 27.

[Host 2]

Okay.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

And I.

[Host 1]

Is when you love metrosexuals.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Like actually. And I had the tolerance for it. My immune system is so weak. I can't. I. Right now, though, I have evolved in my relationship with kind of knowing what I can take or like other people's opinions about me. I. I really. When I read a hate comment, I have the same thought that's like, I'm not supposed to be in everybody's hands. I'm not.

[Host 2]

You're like an acquired taste.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

Yeah, I'm not supposed to be in everybody's hands. Like, I don't think that my writing or my work is supposed to be for Everybody. And because of the Internet, it does get passed around to places where it shouldn't be and hands that it shouldn't be in and people that, like, aren't going to understand it or get it. And I am completely understanding of that. And so, like, when people don't understand things or they think I'm annoying, or they're not familiar with someone that has a personality, like, similar to mine, sometimes confusion can come out in hatred. And that's like, chill.

[Host 1]

That's a good one.

[Host 2]

Outlook.

[Host 1]

And I guess the only phrase I can think right now is defense mechanism. Not in a way. I'm not saying you're coping, but it's like, it's a good way to approach it. We're like, yeah, you shouldn't be reading this.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

Yeah.

[Host 2]

Self aware.

[Host 1]

You're. Of course you wouldn't get it.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

Yeah. Because I had an article come out recently. I wrote something for Interview magazine.

[Host 1]

Oh, we're going to talk about that.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

Okay. Yeah. And that was the first time in a while I've gotten like, a lot of hate comments, but they don't really. It doesn't really bother me.

[Host 1]

Why? Okay, so you attended a elite sex party that was like faux Illuminati.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

Yeah.

[Host 1]

Wannabe Eyes Wide Shut.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

Yeah.

[Host 1]

B level.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

Yeah.

[Host 1]

But why did you get so much hate for writing about attending this sex party?

[Mackenzie Thomas]

So when I'm asked to write something, when I'm put on assignment, I have a really specific kind of style. I'm not like a traditional, like, journalist. I'm gonna write a personal essay that is about myself.

[Host 2]

Right.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

And about myself going there. So when people read stuff like that, they're like, they want to know, like, the meat of it or they want me to be more of like a traditional journal. I'm not. The only journalism I'm doing is about my own emotions.

[Host 2]

Sure.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

And I. I guess there could. People could benefit from like a disclaimer. Like.

[Host 2]

But not familiar with the work of gay to lead.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

And like, I think people were really angry with me because

[Host 1]

you were a terrible dress.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

I wore a terrible dress. I wore a terrible dress. I. So I. This was pitched to me.

[Host 1]

It's like a. Is like the subplot of the hate.

[Host 2]

Yeah.

[Host 1]

Let's talk about your outfit before we get back to the.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

Okay, so let's just talk about the dress. People were angry at me because I mentioned in the piece that I bought a dress from reformation that was $400. I don't have an evening gown in my wardrobe.

[Host 1]

That was the dress code for the sex.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

Yes. Yes. And like, I was texting with people before. I was like, they were sending me, like, this is the usual vibe. It fit the vibe right you. They weren't there. They do not know. Like, I had 16 hours to prepare before I went. It was pitched to me at like, my old roommate, one of my best friends, Blizzy McGuire. You know her?

[Host 1]

The.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

The character?

[Host 2]

No, it's Lizzie McGuire. This is Lizzie.

[Host 1]

Lizzy.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

Lizzie McGuire at her birthday party. Julian from Interview was like, do you want to go to a sex party and write about? And I was like, yeah. And I didn't know it would be like the next day, so I had to scramble and like, figure this out.

[Host 1]

Get a wax.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

I guess I'll fucking go to Reformation because that's where they have that, like. And they were closing. I was really stressed out. I was supposed to be at the party in like two hours. And I bought this dress that I absolutely hate. And I say that I absolutely hate

[Host 1]

it, but people don't read.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

People in the comments are like, she was so happy to look a mess. And I'm like, yeah, like, I. Yeah, I was.

[Host 1]

So the dress was just like, objectively horrendous.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

It's like, not even that bad. It's just a, like, floor length slip.

[Host 2]

It was the uniform. It's like you're just hating on the uniform that she had to wear to do the gig.

[Host 1]

I mean, that sounds like some real jelly hater where it's like, we wish we were there. We were. We were paid to attend sex parties, which is trash. This girl's fit.

[Host 2]

The price probably had something. The fact that you. You mentioned the price.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

No one said anything about the price. It was more like that they were like, that's something that I would wear to bed not to, like, an elite party. And I'm like, you live in Minnesota and you're a real estate agent.

[Host 1]

If you read the story, it's not like an elite party. It's like some tech founder.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

Yes, yes. Yes, it is.

[Host 1]

Okay, so the tr. So the dress. Hate. The dress got off its own hate. But you also just got hate for just the overall story or for like, how you covered it or what?

[Mackenzie Thomas]

I think more so how I covered it. And they wish, like, they were wishing that I went deeper with it. But I.

[Host 1]

Nice. Like, like in a sex way.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

Yeah, I like it a sex way. And I think people wished that I. At the party. Like, I didn't. I just watched a bunch of orgies. And like, I think at this point in my life, though, I really the piece is about kind of how I, like, needed to go do that because I had been so stuck and kind of of my New York and, like, my five people in my life and, like, my relationship to Desire has gotten so repetitive and, like, to be able to be in a room with a bunch of people who I don't know and don't know me and be able to see that, it was like. It was awesome. It was like, the best night of my year.

[Host 1]

Would you go back?

[Host 2]

Yeah.

[Host 1]

Not on assignment.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

I don't know.

[Host 1]

Maybe in a different dress.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

I don't know. Like, I. I don't know. My friends want to go, and I'm like, I'm not going with you.

[Host 1]

It's expensive to attend, right?

[Mackenzie Thomas]

Yeah, But I think I could get him for free.

[Host 2]

Okay, so what's the level of attractiveness of the participants?

[Mackenzie Thomas]

Not as bad as I thought it would be. It's just like. It's not people that, like, I'm not seeing on the street, and I'm like, that is trade.

[Host 1]

Who's there? Like, Hudson Yard bros. Like, what I'm trying to.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

It's like. No, it's not even Hudson Yard guys. It's like, we have a family and we live in, like, Greenpoint.

[Host 1]

Greenpoint guys.

[Host 2]

Yeah.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

Yeah. But, like, did well for themselves and live in kind of, like, industrial, like, one of the apartments in the neighborhood that's, like, ugly as.

[Host 2]

Okay, interesting.

[Host 1]

So it's basically that episode of. It's basically a girl's story arc. It sounds like, like, a DJ finance who marries Jemima.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Host 2]

Patrick Wilson.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

Yeah.

[Host 1]

Did anything not make the final cut in the story?

[Mackenzie Thomas]

Yes.

[Host 1]

What did make it?

[Mackenzie Thomas]

I am so mad about this. I wrote. Oh, I think because it just kind of.

[Host 1]

Come on, Mel.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

It played with the form too much. But I did kind of like a bulleted list of me describing people in the room.

[Host 2]

Oh, okay.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

And I was talking about, like, this boy that I thought was really cute that was, like, looking at me, and, like, he was wearing, like, a suit, and he was, like, smiling in this way that I couldn't tell if it was, like, devilish or excited or, like, what it was. And, like, there was, like, a bar back. This girl who, like, really looked sorority girl, and she was wearing, like, a nude leotard, which is, like, a crazy thing to see a person wearing. And, like, I am sad that that got cut from the piece because I thought that was cute. And also just kind of vital to set the scenery.

[Host 1]

But wait, would you have. Did you go in there with an Open mind where it's like, maybe I will have sex at the sex party. Or you're like, I'm not, I'm drawing.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

I thought about it when I was in there.

[Host 1]

Yeah.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

Yes.

[Host 1]

And it's just. Nothing clicked.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

It definitely could have. Like, if I'm just being completely honest, like, it definitely could have. But also, I didn't think that was the arc of the story and I didn't think that. I didn't think I wanted that to be my arc also. And I don't really like doing things for the story. I don't really do anything for the plot. Like, I find real life to be so much more interesting than the kind of things we bring upon ourselves. So I just saw how I was feeling. I didn't really feel like I wanted to have sex. I thought about it, but it wasn't. The moment didn't really arise. And I like, was really enjoying just

[Host 2]

like being the voyeur, not doing it for the plot. As a general kind of like, you know, ethos for you, do you think that's like a misconception where people think that you're like constantly doing things? And what is. How does that. How can you even combat that? Are you just.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

Now my life's just like awesome.

[Host 2]

It's like my life. A movie. Sorry. That you think.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

Sorry. Like my life. Okay, awesome.

[Host 1]

I'm throwing fits right now.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

Well, also, I always say this about the things that I make. It's like I don't really try to force a narrative because I think every day has a beginning and middle and end. Every week has a beginning, middle and end every month. And like, like it'll just happen in front of you. You don't need to force it.

[Host 2]

Okay.

[Host 1]

Does the week begin on Sunday or Monday?

[Mackenzie Thomas]

Monday.

[Host 1]

Okay.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

Emails.

[Host 2]

Agreed.

[Host 1]

What was the. Because I. I've had some friends that have attended. I think this one sanctum, I think so a few years ago, maybe the other one. But the drug situation. What's going on?

[Mackenzie Thomas]

No drugs there.

[Host 1]

Okay, then they definitely went to the other one where there's just bowls of Molly.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

No, no drugs. No drugs. They're like really?

[Host 1]

Viagra.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

I didn't see a single.

[Host 2]

You take that before?

[Mackenzie Thomas]

I didn't see like crazy boner. Like, like walking around normal boners area.

[Host 1]

Was there. Was there help to get the party started? Like some bulls walking around.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

There was performers, like right when I walked in, there were performers on a pink ottoman. Like a big pink like spinning.

[Host 2]

That's why you got the sheets.

[Host 1]

Were they into it or were they just like.

[Host 2]

Yep.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

They know they were selling it.

[Host 2]

So.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

They were selling it.

[Host 1]

They're professional.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

They were. Yeah. It was kind of awesome.

[Host 1]

Sick.

[Host 2]

Tight.

[Host 1]

Is that the most viral story you've ever written?

[Mackenzie Thomas]

No.

[Host 1]

What, what was.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

I. I was, I had to write a piece about Dime Square last year.

[Host 1]

Oh, whoa. What's that?

[Mackenzie Thomas]

Yeah, I don't know.

[Host 1]

What was your thesis?

[Mackenzie Thomas]

Oh,

[Host 1]

another sex. Another sex party where no one's well.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

So I was put on assignment to write about the slushy place.

[Host 1]

Okay.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

That was shutting down and I have never gotten more hate. Yeah.

[Host 1]

Wow.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

Shocking. Because it's a story about myself and it's a story about how I was very like anti downtown for a very long time and then I was put on assignment and I ended up like spending a lot of time in Dime Square last summer and I ended up having a really great time and I realized that like, okay, these people that I have heard just like Internet legends about and like, or I've just heard whispers about, I'm like, actually they're just normal. Just normal. Everybody's normal. And it's fine.

[Host 1]

It's just a high concentration of good restaurants and good bars and no cars and that's it.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

And Absolutely.

[Host 1]

And, and white Chinatown and unemployed people. Who was the who, Who'd you write it for?

[Mackenzie Thomas]

High snob.

[Host 1]

Okay. Ah, wait, what?

[Host 2]

Oh, I'm sure the high snob audience

[Mackenzie Thomas]

loved hearing about Times Square at me. One of my, my roommate from college is like, best friend, like, was like, you change, you're evil. And I was like, I, I don't know. Like, I'm sorry.

[Host 1]

Like I, I love fried shrimp heads also.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

I, okay, this is my one one wish. Anybody's listening and wants me to write for them in the future, please, for the love of God, get someone on your HTML. I can read the story in my tone of voice for your audience because I think people think that don't know me and have never ever come across me. They read it like, like that's never my.

[Host 2]

You need to do your audiobook style narration.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

I read the section sex party piece at a reading recently and people were like, I loved it when I read it. But hearing it in your voice was incredible. I'm like, I don't know, but whatever.

[Host 2]

So why not have a podcast, right?

[Mackenzie Thomas]

I know, yeah, I, I, I could see that happening for me, but I, I think I can wait. I'm not really in a, in a rush to do anything ever. I think I'm going to get around to doing everything, but I'm not Really in a rush. Like, I'm never really trying to beat the clock. I don't really have a lot of dreams.

[Host 1]

Got to get that tooth fixed first.

[Host 2]

Yeah.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

Yes, yes. That's my dream.

[Host 2]

Priorities.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

Yeah.

[Host 1]

Real quick, though, back to how did the dress play at the sex party?

[Mackenzie Thomas]

They fudgeing. Loved it. They thought sexy as fuck. Like, yeah, yeah. Everyone was asking me if I was having sex that night. I don't know.

[Host 1]

Maybe I don't want to ruin the dress.

[Host 2]

We'll see.

[Host 1]

I don't want to take the dress.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

I don't know.

[Host 2]

We'll see. I have a staph infection.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

Well, that was before, right?

[Host 2]

No, I know.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

Disease.

[Host 1]

Did I get tested before you show up? How does that work?

[Mackenzie Thomas]

I was the only person that wasn't tested.

[Host 2]

Okay.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

Yeah.

[Host 2]

And I'm like, the queen is here.

[Host 1]

You're like, sorry, that's a HIPAA violation.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

I have something. You might want it. Like, I, I.

[Host 2]

You would be so lucky.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

I wasn't tested. But also, like, I am just the most single I've ever been in a really real way. Like, I'm not even on hinge or anything. So I'm not. Yeah. There is nothing to worry about.

[Host 1]

Well, we're going to talk about sex, dating a little bit, but, like, just continue on with writing. What are some of the stories you've been pitching but no one's accepted them yet? And do you pitch or do you still the stories come to you?

[Mackenzie Thomas]

People will ask me if I want to write something. I think when people pitch me something, every time I'm pitch something, though, I think people know and they know what they're kind of, like, getting themselves into, and I'm really thankful for that. Like, Like, I wrote a story for Cultured about Euphoria, and it was awesome. I rewatched, like, all of Euphoria, and I got to write, like, a essay about the time that's kind of passed since it's aired, because it came out when I was 20.

[Host 1]

When did it first come out? 2020, I think. 2020.

[Host 2]

Yeah.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

So. And now I'm 27. Yeah. And so that was cool. But I have a story that has recently been accepted. I feel like talking about things, though, is kind of the kiss of death.

[Host 2]

Okay, fair.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

But I. It's a really controversial kind of story.

[Host 1]

Is that Times Square?

[Mackenzie Thomas]

No, but it's. It's. It's.

[Host 2]

You're going on vacation to Israel.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

No, I. When I was growing up. I'm from Montclair, New Jersey.

[Host 2]

Oh. I'm from Bergen County. As well.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

Oh, Essex County.

[Host 2]

Oh, sorry, my bad.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

Essex County. I'm a Jersey girl, and Montclair is, like, a very liberal town. Like, they will let kids do anything. Like, it is. It is really an amazing place to grow up. Like, if you're like, I want to come to school. I want to shave off the sides of my head, and I want to have one strand that's purple and sticking straight up. There is no tolerance for bullying people like that. Okay, so bring back growing up. I. Back when I knew five people.

[Host 1]

Yeah.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

I had a neighbor named. I can't say.

[Host 2]

Don't say the name.

[Host 1]

Name. Max.

[Host 2]

Yeah.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

No, I can't. I can't even attach.

[Host 2]

No, it's fine. So no, no name.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

No name. Name redacted.

[Host 1]

Bill Clinton.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

And we learned the Internet together.

[Host 1]

Okay.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

We were. He was a year older than me. We grew up. Family vacations. That was the place I would go after school because it was, like, five feet away from my home. Like, he was like my brother. We were both only children. And he was on websites that were, like, the beginnings of 4chan. Really, really young. And I was 1chan. Yeah, 1chan. 1chan. I was pre exposed to all of that stuff as, like, a really, really young girl.

[Host 1]

He's like, for these, like, forms of

[Mackenzie Thomas]

messy boards is like rotten.com, rotten.com forms and message boards. Like, early iterations of Live Leak. Like, I don't even think Live Leak existed yet.

[Host 1]

And Jenny Cam.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

Shout out Jenny Cam. But he wasn't cool enough to be into that. But, like, that's the OG yeah, we. We would. We would watch YouTube together, too. Like, we were really into this show called Friday Night Cranks, which, like, I think is kind of responsible for, like, my mischievous streak that I have. They used to prank call people. But my neighbor, we were fiercely close, and he is fully white nationalist, proud boy now. And off the map, you cannot find anything on him anywhere. And it has been an extremely heartbreaking experience.

[Host 1]

When did you. What did you guys take separate paths? Diverge, like, so Paul Walker, and I'm from New Jersey. Yeah.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

But after the second grade, I moved to North Carolina for seven years.

[Host 1]

Okay.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

And then I moved back to Montclair, New Jersey.

[Host 1]

So when you move back, were you like, whoa.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

So, yeah, when we already knew that he was going down a really bad path. But also, there were things going on in his house, like, with his parents that, like, I witnessed that were just how you break a boy.

[Host 2]

Got it.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

And, like, when we come back, his family expressed discomfort towards my family because I'm Half black and he couldn't.

[Host 2]

Got it.

[Host 1]

Damn.

[Host 2]

Okay.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

In Montclair, which is insane.

[Host 2]

Right, right, right, right.

[Host 1]

And you have to let him be that way because it's. You know, and I.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

And also, like, I don't want to like, anger this because he. I came back and he was just like, full.

[Host 1]

Like, damn.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

It was. It's been a really weird kind of process to. I think about him a lot and I don't even, like, know if he's alive.

[Host 2]

Oh, that's a.

[Host 1]

That's a. So is this phenomenon of kind of like. Because this is something you want to write? Because I. I mean, we've talked about this, but I have a friend from high school that we part. We like lost touch, like right after college. And then he resurfaced and he'd been kind of like pilled by the Internet by like one of these, like, hustler grind set guys in a way that

[Host 2]

it was like a nationalist.

[Host 1]

So unrecognizable. But the same. Still the same person. I mean, I still. Well, I don't know when the last time I saw him, like, online was. But it's an interesting phenomenon. Like, people. You knew that then you just like part ways, you somehow reconnect and they've been like, completely.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

Yeah, I don't think. Well, I don't think. I don't think we'll ever reconnect. But yeah, I. I think I'm gonna. I hope I can write something about it. It is a really sensitive kind of topic, but I think it is like a specific type of anger and also heartbreak that like, a lot of people. Right. Living right now are like, dealing with like, losing someone. Like someone. An alive person becoming a ghost because of their.

[Host 2]

Like, this happened to a lot of people's parents because of QAnon, honestly.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Host 1]

Fox News, Facebook. I mean, people. Sibling people's siblings, like, they just.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

Yeah, but you can't pray for nuance on the Internet, so I don't know what people will say. So that's why I have kind of not written about it.

[Host 2]

Can't wait to read it.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

Yeah, I. I hope it will.

[Host 1]

And is that something you're working on and then you want to go out to like a publisher or site or is it.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

I have a. I have a place that said they'll publish it. And I think it's low key enough that people won't get.

[Host 1]

Is there like a. Besides Times Square, what is like the most overrated narrative that the downtown Illuminati media is obsessed with? Maybe you're just like, let it go, people.

[Host 2]

Yeah. What are they forcing?

[Host 1]

Is it the lonely males?

[Mackenzie Thomas]

Like, like stuff about New York that people.

[Host 2]

Yeah, just the media is always forcing narratives. It seems like that, like, are not maybe necessarily true to life, but they're trying to make happen happen.

[Host 1]

Like these existence of Times Square.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

I think more people need to talk about how Soho is Florida.

[Host 2]

Sure.

[Host 1]

That is just like a mall full of.

[Host 3]

Yeah.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

Yes. Like, it's literally Florida. Yeah. Yeah. I. But I don't know, like, downtown. Just a location. Truly.

[Host 1]

Like, where do you hang out? Bushwick.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

Bushwick.

[Host 2]

Yeah.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

I'm in Maria Hernandez every day.

[Host 2]

Posted.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

Posted up in Maria Hernandez every day. Like, I really. My revolves around that part.

[Host 2]

Step into my office.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

Yeah.

[Host 1]

Speaking of heartbreak, you went to school for comedic writing, but you're not a comedian.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

Yeah.

[Host 1]

It sounds like a pretty bad joke, but what was, like, the homework, like, at comedy school? At clown college?

[Mackenzie Thomas]

Yeah, I went to Emerson Clown college.

[Host 1]

Hot. Lana. No. Where's Emerson?

[Mackenzie Thomas]

Hot. Boston.

[Host 2]

You're thinking of Emory. Emerson is like the. It's like, for broad. You can get a degree in podcasting from Emerson.

[Host 1]

Like, broadcast journalism.

[Host 2]

Yeah.

[Host 3]

Yeah.

[Host 2]

Well, that's a real job.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

I. I went to Emerson. I was like, severely 30 rock pills as a young woman, and I wanted to be Liz Lemon.

[Host 1]

Sure.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

I. I went to comedy school. You know, I was a really hyperactive kid. My parents, like, put me in, like, baby improv classes at like, age 8, and I was like, okay. Like, you know, I didn't really have, like, a choice. Like, my mom, when I was really young was like, she's funny. Like, here's this I Love Lucy box set. Like, do what you must. And I have always, like, loved comedy. Like, I really do. Like, I was a big comedy nerd for years, but going to school for comedy was crazy.

[Host 1]

What? That sounds like a nightmare.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

It was a nightmare. It was a nightmare.

[Host 1]

Everyone's just trying to riff and joke and.

[Host 2]

And.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

No, no, no. So there's that.

[Host 1]

There's that real theater kid. No, yeah, there's that.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

But you're not considering that a lot of comedians or people that want to be comedians are mentally ill.

[Host 2]

Yes.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

And so our. Our class was 18 people, and so we knew each other very intimately.

[Host 2]

Yikes.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

And we all had crazy opinions on, like, everybody's kind of like, style. Like, oh, like, I don't like their jokes.

[Commercial Announcer]

Oh, when.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

When she does.

[Host 1]

Clowning is an art.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

Like, when she does stand up, I'm not gonna laugh. I'm gonna stifle my laugh. Like, it's really catty. Super.

[Host 1]

Did you stand up?

[Mackenzie Thomas]

I did stand up for three years.

[Host 1]

What was your. What was your style?

[Mackenzie Thomas]

I was also, like, very suicidal in college.

[Host 2]

I mean, so hilarious.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

Yeah, I would be too.

[Host 2]

Honestly.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

Honestly, I. I was really great at standup.

[Host 1]

Yeah.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

But I think I fell out of love with comedy because I'm really interested in truth. And I think, aren't comedians the truth

[Host 2]

tellers, the modern day philosophers?

[Mackenzie Thomas]

But so are writers and so are people that make visual art. Podcast people. Yeah. And I feel like when you present yourself in like a comedic arena, the audience is like, gimme, gimme, gimme. And you're also like, I want to give you. I want to give you. I want to give you this laugh. And I'm comfortable giving that gift, but I feel like I feel the happiest giving the gift of like, full truth. And I'm able to, like, figure out if I want it to be funny or if I want it to be sad or be able to have peaks and valleys in between, like during a performance or something or a piece that, like, I'm writing. And I just didn't really want to do comedy anymore. People think I'm a comedian, but I'm really not.

[Host 1]

Was this four years of comedy school?

[Mackenzie Thomas]

Yes.

[Host 2]

Jesus.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

I went. I had a psychotic break.

[Host 1]

Yeah, I could imagine.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

Yeah, I had a psychotic break.

[Host 1]

What happened?

[Mackenzie Thomas]

I developed a God complex in a real way.

[Host 1]

Damn.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

And I was having crazy kind of like panic attacks because the stuff that I make is so tied to, like, who I am as a person and

[Host 2]

like, your self worth.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

Absolutely. Absolutely. And to be in a classroom where the art that I'm making that's for myself is being kind of attacked. I'm fine with it. Being critiqued. I love hearing a critique. But being attacked in a way that's

[Host 1]

just like, not through this, like, caddy bullshit playground. Yeah.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

With like many John Mulaney, it's like. And I don't.

[Host 2]

Was there.

[Host 1]

Was there a suit guy in your class? Was there a guy that wore a suit every day?

[Mackenzie Thomas]

They tried it. They tried it freshman year. They tried it.

[Host 2]

There always is one.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

But, like, I couldn't really handle having boys that were like, you need your. Why are you on Instagram? Like, you need to be working on your type five, like telling, thanks, bro. And then I really, you know, they all had to eat my dust when Tick Tock came around and I just smoked.

[Host 2]

And they got. Even smoked them and they got even more jealous, presumably.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

And I mean, like, the Internet, though, is like my big Love. And I was in class being like, yeah, I love comedy, but I also really love, like. Like, Molly soda. Like, I like. I think she's just, like, the greatest artist that's, like, ever live. Saying this in, like, a college classroom and people being like, what the are you talking about? It just, like, looks like she takes pictures on her MacBook. And I'm like, it's not that. It's more sure.

[Host 1]

Was this psychotic break when you went to the psych ward?

[Mackenzie Thomas]

Yes.

[Host 1]

How was the food?

[Mackenzie Thomas]

I only ate peanut butter sandwiches.

[Host 2]

No jelly.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

I don't like jelly.

[Host 2]

Okay, you are. You might be crazy.

[Host 1]

Do you get to keep the grippy socks?

[Mackenzie Thomas]

Yes.

[Host 2]

Nice.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

Do you get to keep them? You get to keep them. I mean, I came in there. Do you want to know my fit? My fit check?

[Host 2]

Yeah.

[Host 1]

Psych ward fit check.

[Host 2]

Wow. First time for everything.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

I would love it. I'll send you a photo of the T shirt. I have a T shirt that is very coveted in my collection of shirts.

[Host 1]

Is like, psych ward merch.

[Host 2]

Salem.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

It's essentially. It is psych ward merch, though. Like, so I was taken to the psych ward because I threatened to drop out of college, and I was. I was crazy. I'm not. I was throwing stuff around in my room, and the residential director of my building was like, mackenzie, you have to stop. And I told her, if you don't let me drop out, I'm gonna cut my leg open and I'm gonna blame it on you.

[Host 2]

Okay.

[Host 1]

That's all it takes.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

That's crazy.

[Host 1]

Yeah.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

That's, like, true.

[Host 2]

Yeah.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

By definition, like, for real. Like, that is crazy. And so I was strapped to a gurney.

[Host 1]

Okay.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

And I was wheeled through the whole building.

[Host 2]

Bad luck.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

Everybody sees me.

[Host 1]

Were they like, yo, this is just. This is just a bit.

[Host 2]

Yeah.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

No, because I. I'd been, like, on suicide watch for a minute, you know, and. And I'm wearing on top an X L. T shirt that says, my next wife will be normal.

[Host 2]

Perfect.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

And little boys. Mario pajama pants.

[Host 2]

Ooh, nice.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

And a pair of air force ones.

[Host 1]

Yo, white or black?

[Mackenzie Thomas]

Actually, I wish I still had them. They were, like, pink swoosh brown, black and pink plaid panel and then white.

[Host 2]

Damn. It's like you Nike ID those.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

Yeah, they were really sick. Hey, it's Ryan Reynolds here from Mint Mobile.

[Host 1]

Now, I was looking for fun ways to tell you that Mint's offer of unlimited Premium Wireless for $15 a month is back. So I thought it would be fun

[Mackenzie Thomas]

if we made $15 bills, but it

[Host 1]

Turns out that's very illegal. So there goes my big idea for the commercial. Give it a [e-mail] Switch upfront payment

[Commercial Announcer]

of $45 for 3 months, $90 for 6 months or $180 for 12 month plan required. $15 per month equivalent taxes and fees. Extra initial plan term only greater than 50 gigabytes. Me slow when network is busy.

[Host 2]

See terms were they totally cooked. As like most white girls wear cooked forces.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

No, they. I kept them. They're the one thing. They're the one thing that I like.

[Host 2]

No matter your mentals, the pristine forces were there.

[Host 1]

Did you have to wear the Shutter island ass fit the whole time? The psych ward or they give you like uniform?

[Mackenzie Thomas]

One of the AIDS felt really bad for me because it was also in the middle of the winter. Like there was a snowstorm the night I was there. Like I. The night I ascended. And he gave me a sweatshirt with a Chinese character on it that I don't know what it means.

[Host 2]

Do you still have it?

[Mackenzie Thomas]

I do, but I don't know where it is. I definitely do now.

[Host 1]

That's funny.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

Yeah.

[Host 2]

Yeah.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

But I was there for like two weeks.

[Host 2]

Weeks.

[Host 1]

Wow. Peanut butter sandwiches for two weeks.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

Yeah.

[Host 1]

All right. Not been great.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

I ordered Thai food one time.

[Host 1]

You can order food doordash to the psych ward.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

Well, I went to a really famous psych ward today.

[Host 1]

Wi Fi. Was it shutter Island?

[Mackenzie Thomas]

The eight seconds of Shutter Island. McLean. McLean. And like John from like McLean. Sylvia Plath went there.

[Host 1]

Oh. Oh.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

So they got a lot interrupted. Is based off of.

[Host 1]

Do you feel her spirit in the air?

[Host 2]

I'm sure that's it. So you're an alumnus of like a pretty prestigious psych ward.

[Host 1]

Do they have good Wi Fi?

[Mackenzie Thomas]

Honestly? Yeah. You can use your phone when you're. If you're good. Oh, it's not. That's not the case for every psych ward. But I was really good, so they gave and I would. I just said this on a podcast I was on recently. I. All the chargers are really short because

[Host 1]

you don't kill yourself.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

You don't hang yourself.

[Host 2]

Smart.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

So I would just sit near the charger at night and I would watch the Masked Singer on my iPhone because I was also so crazy that I was addicted to watching the Masked Singer.

[Host 1]

You and like 20 million.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

It's awesome.

[Host 2]

It's. It is a joint psychosis that the country has.

[Host 1]

What. What was the first day back at school like after your two week little semester abroad?

[Mackenzie Thomas]

I've never been asked that. And I'VE never wondered or thought about it.

[Host 1]

He's like, hey, guys, I remember go

[Mackenzie Thomas]

to a sketch writing class and I knew that people were talking about it, but my teacher, all 18, all 17.

[Host 2]

Yeah.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

Yeah. I mean, word traveled so fast because we were all so.

[Host 2]

And they all saw you on the gurney.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

On the gurneys, definitely. And my teacher Tim, he knew about it and he was a really wonderful guy. I had a couple teachers in comedic arts that were like, wonderful. Like, saved your life. Shout out Ed Lee. Like, that's my guy. But. And they kept me kind of like, safe. But I think. I think kids are really. Especially in that time because that was like, woke one.

[Host 1]

Yeah.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

So people were really kind to me. Oh, that's for like a little bit.

[Host 2]

Just to not get canceled, you know, Imagine, of course.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

And it was a liberal arts.

[Host 2]

Yeah.

[Host 1]

Imagine if you came back during dark woke.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

Yeah.

[Host 2]

A lot of good sketches could have come out of that, though.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Host 1]

Honestly, that's some material for you. I don't know.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

Yeah. I don't know. I mean, I. I haven't written about being at the psych ward just because I am saving it. I think just sometimes I. I keep things because I think I gained so much, like, perspective just kind of dawdling through.

[Host 2]

Save that for the memoir. Chapter one.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

Yeah.

[Host 2]

Good openings.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

There is stuff that happened before, you know, like, you know, there's always a. There's stuff I was.

[Host 1]

Yeah, usually things happen, like before you go to the psych. Most dramatic moment.

[Host 2]

Yeah. Just right out the gate.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

And that's not even. That's not. And that's not. That's not even the low point of my life.

[Host 1]

What would the teaser. What would the teaser be in the memoir? How would you hook people in?

[Host 2]

Yeah. What's the low point?

[Host 1]

And then I. And then James asked me to come on throwing fix.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

I would. My dad lost his finger, okay. In a really crazy way. And the loss of this finger unraveled our whole.

[Host 2]

Wow.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

Lives.

[Host 2]

Okay.

[Host 1]

Which finger pointer?

[Host 2]

Yeah. Oh, like half. Half a joint.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

He cut it off by accident.

[Host 1]

Was he like, doing some work around the house?

[Mackenzie Thomas]

Absolutely.

[Host 1]

Yeah.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

Absolutely.

[Host 1]

Yeah.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

Absolutely.

[Host 1]

You gotta use that.

[Host 2]

And the irony of you gotta use

[Host 1]

that stick to push the thing through.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

But the thing is, he. We were in Vegas.

[Host 1]

Were you living there?

[Mackenzie Thomas]

No, we were on vacation.

[Host 1]

Did he owe money to some.

[Host 2]

Yeah.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

No unsavory folks. Are you familiar with what a Dybbuk box is?

[Host 1]

No.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

Just strap in. I'll give you the bullet points. Just strap in. Dybbuk box Extreme. A Box that is extremely cursed.

[Host 2]

Yep.

[Host 1]

It's like Jewish folklore.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

Yeah, Jewish folklore. Very cursed.

[Host 1]

How do you not know this?

[Host 2]

Because I'm a bad. You.

[Host 1]

It's like a thing Timmy puts his hand in and Dune.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

I've never seen that.

[Host 2]

No, that's. This is. They use this in the 2012 horror film the Possession of Dipping Box.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

So I used to watch this show, Ghost Adventures. You know, Ghost Adventures is like a very fake ghost hunting show that's on, like, public access.

[Host 1]

Like, the body cams facing them and.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

Yes, yes. So the guy. The main host of Ghost Avengers is this guy Zach Baggins. And he has a museum in Vegas called the Museum of Haunted Objects. And I wanted to go there with my family when we were in Vegas.

[Host 2]

How old are you?

[Host 1]

27.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

19.

[Host 2]

19.

[Host 1]

I thought 19, then.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

Yeah, 19 years old.

[Host 1]

Yeah.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

So we go. My dad doesn't really believe in any of this stuff. So he was feeling mischievous, devilish, wanting to test the waters a week before Post Malone was there, and he touched the glass that this thing, the Dybbuk Box, was in. And right after he touched the glass that this box was in. Also, this museum has Annabelle and Dr. Kevorkian's van and, like, a ton of cursed shit. But the most cursed thing in the museum is. This is the Dybbuk Box. Post Malone, a week prior, touches the glass that this box is in. He gets on a plane, and his plane almost crashes. And then a couple days later, someone robbed him, like, his house, and he had to go to a shaman to uplift the curse on him.

[Host 2]

Geez.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

Okay, we're there already. The museum's cashed in on it. There's a TV in the corner of the room where the Divock box is. It's Post Malone on the security camera touching it. And then, like, the TMZ headline.

[Host 2]

Jesus.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

And my dad's like, I'm gonna touch it. Oh, no, I'm gonna touch it.

[Host 2]

Hubris.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

So he touches it, and we fly home. I go back to college. My dad cuts his finger off on the hand that he touched.

[Host 2]

Wow. Wow. Crazy.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

But no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. So that's. So he has to go to the hospital. They do a blood test on him. Stage three cancer.

[Host 2]

Jesus. Wait, so they wouldn't have found it if it wasn't for the Dybbu box, right?

[Mackenzie Thomas]

No, but you think that's, like, a great thing. But then the story actually gets worse.

[Host 2]

Oh, my bad.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

No, it gets worse. Cuts his finger off, and then he gets cancer. And then his best friend's wife also gets cancer at the same time, which leaves my mom to get very close to my dad's best friend. They have an affair that I walked in on, and whole family goes in the toilet. And my dad lived, but my dad lived.

[Host 1]

Yay. This is why we love to ask our guests the low point of their lives.

[Host 2]

And it was, dude, that's a banger.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

I know. And. I know. And there was, like, more stuff happening, but, like, then I went to the psych ward.

[Host 1]

I think that's how you hook them in the memoir.

[Host 2]

Wow, that's. That's a good one.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

But the whole story is actually so crazy. That's crazier than that.

[Host 2]

Wow. All right. That's good podcasting. Yeah. You're like, thank you.

[Host 1]

You're 27 years. My goodness.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

Yeah.

[Host 2]

Movie.

[Host 1]

And you actually. I don't know if the. I don't know what your college classmates are up to, but it sounds like you again, left them in the dust.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

Yeah.

[Host 1]

Are you. Are you. Are you the most successful person from your class of 2020? Whatever. Emerson.

[Host 2]

Damn. Okay. Silence speaks volumes.

[Host 1]

You produce a very successful play that sold out more than just a few shows.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

Every show.

[Host 1]

Every show. How many shows?

[Mackenzie Thomas]

Nine.

[Host 1]

Did you make a nice little bag off that?

[Mackenzie Thomas]

Enough? Yeah, enough, I think, with doing one woman shows and especially my show's four hours long.

[Host 1]

Is there an intermission?

[Mackenzie Thomas]

It's 15 minutes. But I. People come up to my computer and, like, talk to me because I do the show. The show structured where I read all of my tweets from 2025, from beginning to end. It's separated by month. And so I read an essay on the other side of the stage to split it up. Up, explaining what was actually happening to me during that month. I had a really bad year. And you know what?

[Host 1]

You. You got cursed because he tweeted about throwing fits in December 2024.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

I knew I shouldn't have brought it up. I knew I shouldn't have brought it up.

[Host 2]

The TF curse is real. Don't. Don't play with it. Do not play with the TF curse.

[Host 3]

Hopefully.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

Hopefully we're doing some really good shamanic work.

[Host 1]

Yeah.

[Host 2]

Yeah.

[Host 1]

And uplifting it right now by being open and vulnerable.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

But, yeah, it's four hours. Everybody cries and they laugh. They laugh a lot. But do you give content?

[Host 1]

Like, you read the tweet and you give context to, like, what was happening or you just read.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

No, I. So the show starts. I come on stage and I read an essay about January and then I go to my computer and I show. I read every single thing that I tweeted in January, February, go to the one side of the stage, read the essay, and then back and forth and back and forth the whole night.

[Host 2]

Okay.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

And I show all the media also that I uploaded and all the pictures and like every video, every retweet that is I deemed, like, funny or entertaining enough to keep in the show, like, important to the story that I'm telling. And it's hard to sell out a four hour show.

[Host 2]

Totally.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

People really like it.

[Host 1]

Are you gonna. Are you gonna bring it back?

[Mackenzie Thomas]

Yeah, I really hope so, but I want to go. It comes out of my own pocket. So I. And I don't really make like the most money in the whole entire world. Like, I don't like my parents. The divorce, like, was. They have nothing. And so it's a. It's an expensive pursuit.

[Host 1]

Is Peter Thiel still funding?

[Mackenzie Thomas]

Yeah, I was on the phone with him.

[Host 2]

Is the faucet still going?

[Mackenzie Thomas]

He doesn't know who I am. And that's good. But I, like, I'm really grateful for, like, the response the show has had and like, I will keep on. I want to keep on doing it, but it also takes a lot of. Out of me. Out of me, like, physically.

[Host 1]

Yeah.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

I've been getting sick a lot because of that. And also my tooth. But.

[Host 2]

Right, right, right. Also the.

[Host 1]

But it's. When. When was it happening?

[Mackenzie Thomas]

I performed it the first because it's about all of the. Of 2025. So I was like, I need to perform it as close to the first day of the year as I possibly can. And I was only supposed to do one show and I performed it on January 2nd.

[Host 2]

Oh, wow.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

And then I. The last time I did it was in April, I think. April.

[Host 1]

If you bring it back, what do you do? 2026. Oh, yeah.

[Host 2]

Oh, it's not replicatable.

[Host 1]

2025 was the year.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

Yeah.

[Host 3]

Okay.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

No, and I would say it's going

[Host 2]

too well for you now.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

I. It's just. It's gimmicky. It's gimmicky and it's like, I don't feel. I don't want to put pressure on myself to like, uphold like some type of narrative. Like, because I didn't know that I was going to make this show. Like, I didn't start the year knowing that I was going to do this. I went through a breakup and I was like, where did I go wrong? I need to read everything I tweeted while I was in that relationship to know what is wrong with me. And then I was this.

[Host 1]

The metrosexual?

[Mackenzie Thomas]

No.

[Host 1]

Okay.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

It's. Well, the show begins with me breaking up with the metrosexual. We broke up on the first day of 2025.

[Host 1]

How bad was New Year's Eve?

[Host 2]

Awful.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

And that's how the story begins. And that's how the story begins. Like, my ex boyfriend was emailing Casey Musgraves in a corner at a party. The whole entire night is pissing me the off.

[Host 1]

And I, as a Stan or like he actually has a reason. A reason to.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

He had a reason to. And I like, invited my friend Ian, he's like, gay guy, like one of my very best friends to this party. And we were just being menaces. We were being our. Our age. And also this metrosexual boyfriend was like, older than me. And he was like, very angry at me for, like, kind of following my gay guy around. Like I was in high school. And I was like, well, how else am I supposed to act? Like, I don't know.

[Host 1]

It sounds like he hates gay people, but dresses like one.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

But yes, to use gay aesthetics to have access. But when it was down to, like,

[Host 1]

things wearing real tree camo.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

No, no, no. But he wears the same outfit every day. But I uniform guys, you know, can't trust. I know.

[Host 2]

Psychos.

[Host 1]

But

[Mackenzie Thomas]

yeah. So I went through that breakup and then I spent kind of the year focusing. Like I spent the year 1v1ing every single type of love.

[Host 2]

Love.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

So I like break up with metrosexual and then I start dating this other guy at the very end of May that I met trying to get into a Met gala afterparty. Okay. And he like, worked at a movie theater and he was my age.

[Host 2]

Okay.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

And I. We just kind of got tangled in a really insane way. He just got out of a relationship.

[Host 1]

So it's like rebound love.

[Host 2]

Both of you.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

Yeah. Yeah. It was really. It was really intense. And I was just, you know, really happy to be on a loser.

[Host 2]

You want to be the first and he won't be the last.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

And it won't. It probably won't be the last time that I'm really.

[Host 2]

Oh, even for you. Oh, damn.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

I was just saying generally, I hope, I hope, but. So he and I are together for a brief period of time. We break up in October. And it wrecked me. I was wrecked by this. I really liked hanging out with this guy, this loser. I loved hanging out with this loser because I lowkey wanted to be him because his life Is so easy.

[Host 1]

I was gonna say.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

And, like, his life is easy. Like, he, like, wakes up at one every day.

[Host 1]

Skater.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

He. He doesn't have the stamina or skill to be a skater.

[Host 1]

Sounds like you're pretty dignitized. No. Dick struck.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

I'm not giving his dick pr. I'm not.

[Host 1]

I can't.

[Host 2]

We just did.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

But I don't know. Like, I was really upset. I kind of, like, lost my mind. And I was reading my tweets, and I was like, this whole year tells a story.

[Host 1]

It's like a mirror of, like, your.

[Host 2]

Yeah.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

And I. I finished writing. I said what? I said the show, the essays for it. On my birthday. I was sick. Sick with a really crazy fever. And I finished writing the essays in December. But then I was consciously writing the end of the show on my Twitter, like, the tweets, because it ends on New Year's Eve.

[Host 2]

Got it.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

And so I was being a bitch on. On New Year's Eve 2025, because I was, like, kind of earned it. I have to finish this show. I was like, it has to be, like, down to the Wire, like, so

[Host 1]

now you became the person in the

[Mackenzie Thomas]

corner of the asshole.

[Host 1]

Okay, Casey, Buster is gonna love this.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

Yeah, I. I'm very grateful for it. I'm happy that people, like, love the show. It has caused so much drama in my personal life. But I.

[Host 1]

Do you, like, name names? And I guess, like, if you're. Do you tweet crazy?

[Mackenzie Thomas]

I tweet crazy.

[Host 1]

Okay.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

I tweet crazy. But I never name names, and I never name names, like, in my work either. Like, I think if somebody really followed my stuff closely, like, they could. They got connected, and I could do, like, a very kind of. Of beautiful timeline of. Of things, but I don't.

[Host 1]

If you ever get to hear the stuff that we had to cut out of this episode, you might be able to connect some dots.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

Yeah. Yeah. Maybe, you know, both my ex boyfriends maybe.

[Host 1]

Have you. I mean, so, okay, whether it's the play, whether it's your writing, whether it's just your social media, like, have you ever regretted putting yourself out there as much as you do? Or is this just kind of like how you live your truth? You have regretted it?

[Mackenzie Thomas]

Yes.

[Host 1]

What. What? Did something happen?

[Mackenzie Thomas]

Or just, like, I definitely, like, will get high and embarrassed about things that I've written because I'm very earnest. And honestly, I think the most punk and cutting edge thing you could possibly do is be earnest, especially these days. It is super. It's not cringe, but it's a feeling close to it. It can. It can cause self cringe. And that's a really hard emotion to swallow to have like secondhand embarrassment for yourself. But I've. I've. When I'm like smoking weed in my room and laying back in my bed, I'm like, I shouldn't have described such and such that way.

[Host 1]

Do you ever delete? Go back and delete shit?

[Mackenzie Thomas]

No.

[Host 1]

Okay, good.

[Host 2]

I like that you stand. You stand on business.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

I stand on business. Like I know what I'm doing. And like I. I know that it would just be a complete self betrayal if I were to do that.

[Host 2]

That.

[Host 1]

So you just like keep smoking and then you just eventually get over it?

[Mackenzie Thomas]

No, I tell myself. I tell myself it's the weed. It's the weed, it's the weed. It's fine.

[Commercial Announcer]

It's my.

[Host 2]

Maybe stop smoking weed. Yeah, maybe you shouldn't smoke weed.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

Okay, so I stopped smoking weed for three years. And then last try this thing we like last summer, last summer, when I was under, like loser dick psychosis, I started smoking weed with him.

[Host 1]

Lds?

[Mackenzie Thomas]

Yeah, lds. Ldp.

[Host 2]

So a side effect of LDS was weed. Yeah.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

And I got back smoking weed and I'm.

[Host 1]

She's gone from LDS to lsd.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

I can't do lsd.

[Host 1]

What? You should try this thing we like, called beer.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

Yeah, I like beer. Okay, well, because I grew up in like the DIY scene in New Jersey.

[Host 1]

Okay.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

So I was like, sober.

[Host 3]

What?

[Host 1]

So like, in the sober sense, that would be.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

No, like, no, that would be straight edge. No, I grew up going to the. This hardcore venue called the Meat Locker. DIY venue.

[Host 2]

I've heard of it. Yeah, I've never.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

Yeah, I used to live down the street from the Meat Locker, and so I was like, you know, like, I drink a PBR and I'm like, this is.

[Host 2]

Yeah, drinking is awesome.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

Yeah, this is 11th grade. I like beers just fine.

[Host 1]

Yeah. All right, what's the most. Speaking of cringe.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

Yeah.

[Host 1]

As a zoomer in our midst, we gotta know.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

I'm a cusper.

[Host 2]

Okay, well, as a customer, we're not.

[Host 1]

We're geriatric millennials.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

Yeah.

[Host 1]

What's the most common cringe? Millennial online behavior. You see that you wish would just stop.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

I want to be shady, but I can't no.

[Host 2]

Be shady. Come on.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

I think it's posting pictures with celebs.

[Host 1]

Oh.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

On the main grid star. Yeah. Unless it's like, like, unless you, like, met like the Rizzler, like, you know, like, like, or someone or like Playboy Cardi. Or like, okay, I'm just like, there's levels to this cardi rizzler, like, up with, like, a C list celeb to prove that you were with said C list celeb is so cringe.

[Host 1]

I feel like that's kind of, like, so obvious that it's like. I don't really see that much of it.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

I see it.

[Host 1]

It.

[Host 2]

And is that, like, relegated just to cringy millennials? I feel like that's just the human condition a lot.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

I think millennials do it a lot.

[Host 2]

All right.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

I think, like. I think, like, if, like, the forced importance of it or being like, look, who I'm hanging out with is very.

[Host 1]

And then, like, tagging them where it's like, yeah, that guy's definitely gonna see that.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

Yes. And reposting. I think that's just like. Like, it also. I'm like, okay, you're treating this person like an animal.

[Host 2]

Oh, you feel sympathy for the se lister in this scenario?

[Mackenzie Thomas]

Oh, completely.

[Host 2]

Oh, really?

[Mackenzie Thomas]

I think it's. It's removing them of their personhood.

[Host 1]

Wait, so what about when throwing fits? Posts a fit, Pick every. Or a mirror fit every single week.

[Host 2]

That's promotion.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

That's different. It's like. It's. It's. It's weird.

[Host 2]

Wait, wait, here's a question. How often do you find yourself as the C lister in a photo like that? Does that happen a lot to you?

[Mackenzie Thomas]

Oh, my God. I.

[Host 2]

So that's why you empathize.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

I accidentally showed up to a party.

[Host 1]

Yeah.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

Because my friend Ian, I was gay Ian. I. He was at. What the is that bar called? Called There's a Slater song named after it. Old Flings.

[Host 1]

Okay.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

He was at Old Flings. Me and my roommate Taryn, who is my best friend, best photographer in New York, princess of my life. We were trying to find him. He was at Old Flings. And that same night, there was, like, a meme party there that Ian was just there randomly. Right.

[Host 2]

He wasn't attending.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

Showed up, and people were like, thank you so much for coming. And I was like, I'm not. I'm not. I wouldn't be wearing my short shorts, like, if I knew. And then they were like, can we just get a picture? Like, promo? And I was like, I gotta get out of here. I gotta go.

[Host 2]

I gotta go. Yikes.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

And, like, I. I don't know. I feel. I really like to kind of be low key because. Because I'm not, like, a famous person.

[Host 1]

Are you Bushwick famous?

[Host 2]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

I would say I'm Kind of Bushwick famous though.

[Host 1]

Do you avoid certain, like, venues or areas? Because you're like, I don't want to.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

No. It's not even people. People leave me alone. Like, I'm, I'm not really, like, I'm not a big deal, but if I'm at like a zine fair, please.

[Host 2]

Oh, right. Or a meme party. Or a meme party.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

Yeah. Or a meme.

[Host 2]

Anything adjacent to the Internet irl.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

Yeah. Like I'm like, oh, God. Like, or like certain, like concerts I'll go to and stuff.

[Host 1]

Mackenzie Thomas alike contest at Montero.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

I was at Maria Hernandez park at a Frankie Cosmos concert, like 10 year anniversary of her album. Next thing and I was clocked.

[Host 2]

Gotcha.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

Yeah.

[Host 1]

Speaking of questionable online behavior, what's the current. What's your. What are your reply guys? Like every E girl has them.

[Host 2]

Yeah.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

There's something I really want to say, but I.

[Host 2]

Necessary evil.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

Okay, I'll tell you guys after because it's is funny. But I've had loyal reply guys for a very long time.

[Host 2]

Salute. Thank you for your service, boys.

[Host 1]

Do they, do they respect? Are they respectful?

[Mackenzie Thomas]

The ones that have hung around for like a decade? They are.

[Host 1]

Since you were 17.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

Yeah. They're like my reply fathers. They've just been, I think it is like, kind of creepy, but also like, I've just had this. They've never really crossed a boundary. I don't care what they're doing or thinking about. I don't care about it.

[Host 1]

Hunter Biden is just such a nice guy, you know?

[Mackenzie Thomas]

He's so nice.

[Host 2]

What a joke.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

I, I my reply guys tell me often in the DMS that I give them a perspective into what it's like to be a girl.

[Host 2]

Oh, okay.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

That they're not really allowed to have as men.

[Host 1]

That's great.

[Host 2]

Interesting.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

And that's been really interesting. I get a lot of messages from men, that of them thanking me for giving them that perspective, which I think is not the typical relationship that a lot of E girls have.

[Host 2]

No ethical reply guys.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

And my favorite reply guy, I forget his name. He really keeps a distance from me. And I used to live in la. Okay. And I did a project. It's like the only visual art I've ever done. After I graduated comedy school, I didn't want to write anything, so I just started drawing. And I started drawing a lot of buildings that I was seeing in la. I had just moved there. I'm from the East Coast. I had like, never seen architecture like that. And I always used to post about how much I love like buildings in la. And he sends me wrecks on LA based architecture books once a year.

[Host 2]

That's nice.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

And I think every year. Yeah, like every year or so he'll send me a link and I think that is so thoughtful and respectful and nice.

[Host 1]

All right.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

They are nice to me. They are nice.

[Host 2]

You're lucky. I think you might be in the minority.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

I am. I really wonder why though. Because people aren't really parasocial with me.

[Host 2]

That's crazy.

[Host 1]

Because you're so out there, I think.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

Because there's no mystery.

[Host 2]

Oh, oh, I see.

[Host 1]

They can't project anything onto you.

[Host 2]

I think.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

I think parasocialness is bred by mystery. And that little thing that you get in your chest when you can just fill in the blank. Right. And it may. And filling in that blank makes you feel closer to that person. Because usually whatever you're putting there is something that just like comes straight from you.

[Host 1]

Right.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

And yeah. Usually though, girls will message me and they will be like, I don't want to sound parasocial, which I think is really sweet. But like, I don't really receive any behavior that I've like ever felt.

[Host 1]

That's great.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

It was extremely.

[Host 2]

You're lucky.

[Host 1]

That's great.

[Host 2]

I'm blessed.

[Host 1]

That's great. Let's get real honest. In what ways are you the world's worst ex girlfriend?

[Mackenzie Thomas]

I'm just gonna talk about you on a podcast. On a podcast, I'm gonna write about you.

[Host 1]

You like, do they know that when like are you up front relationship with a guy, you're like, hey, listen, like I'm very out there with all my,

[Mackenzie Thomas]

I think to love me or to be close to loving me, you know that you're part of the project and you are subject to capital T. Capital.

[Host 2]

The Mackenzie Thomas project.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

You are, you are part of the project and you will be subject to torture. And depending on how you fit into my life, like what you've. You've done to the narrative of my life, I will do with what I want.

[Host 2]

Yeah.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

And you know, I think about kind of the Mackenzie Thomas boys that I've written about because like when I write about my friends, like they're all still my friends, right. But the men that have wronged me, I would love to get them all in a room. Focus group, but.

[Host 1]

And what? Just gas it?

[Mackenzie Thomas]

Like, no, I mean I just, I like on some anthropological shit, like, I

[Host 2]

would love to know exit interview style.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

Yeah.

[Host 1]

Or you look at them and you're like, oh, I'm seeing I'm sensing some patterns.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

There is a pattern.

[Host 2]

Yeah.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

There is so a pattern.

[Host 2]

So when you're actually dating these guys, are you a good girlfriend, or are you also. Okay, not the world's worst girlfriend as well?

[Mackenzie Thomas]

I think a good girlfriend to a fault. And it's something that I'm actually really trying to fix right now in my life. Like, I'm doing a lot of thought about, like, how I am, like, in a relationship. Like, like, how much I sacrifice when I'm in a relationship. Like, I will sleep in a bed with somebody, and my first kind of waking thought is very much like, what can I do today to make this person as happy as possible?

[Host 2]

Okay.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

And I can't fully be like that all the time. It's exhausting.

[Host 1]

It's really sounds like it has, has, has being honest about entering relationship with a guy and being like, you're entering. You're. You're a new participant in the McKenzie project. Has that ever. Has guys ever been like, all right, you know what? I actually don't want to be a part of this. I'm out of here.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

They've. One has tried to leave.

[Host 1]

And Buddy sunk your closet?

[Mackenzie Thomas]

No, no. Like, when we broke up, he got very mad at me and he called me tasteless.

[Host 2]

Oh, well, it's an indictment.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

It's fine.

[Host 1]

No one ever, like, tries to, like, make you sign an NDA or anything.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

Yeah, I, I've never, like, dated anybody famous either, so it's like, yet. Yeah. But I also, I don't name names, but I, I, I think that I just want to be as true to myself as possible and to be true and also share it. I. Yeah, I make stuff so people can read it. But I also, I'm doing this all to log my own life. And if I wasn't writing about this, I would have. Have what? I would. I would be missing parts. I want to. I want to go back when I'm about to die and just be able to get a good, like, timeline of the whole story. How I want to tell.

[Host 1]

Does it ever affect, like, does. Does knowing that this could be in the public ether one day ever, like, affect the present moment where a guy might be, like, act in a way where he's like, well, I gotta act. I'm almost, like, I'm almost kind of under a microscope here where, like, my behavior might be out there?

[Mackenzie Thomas]

I think later on that will affect things in the future, but it really hasn't right now. But also, I wouldn't know because that's an internal thought That a guy is having around me.

[Host 2]

Yeah.

[Host 1]

Or is one he's never shared with you?

[Host 2]

Yeah.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

Yeah.

[Host 1]

Because they're not on.

[Host 2]

And if they're up, clearly it's not making any positive difference.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

Well, also, I've been really bad where I'm gonna be like, I'm not gonna write about this, and I. I do.

[Host 2]

Oh, you don't. Why would you say that then?

[Mackenzie Thomas]

I'm a hypocrite. It's fine.

[Host 2]

Yeah. Okay. Okay.

[Host 1]

What are your.

[Host 2]

A tasteless hypocrite.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

I'm a tasteless hypocrite. I don't. Yeah, I am.

[Host 1]

For any potential participants in the McKeni project, what are some of your biggest icks and just red flags with men in general?

[Mackenzie Thomas]

Okay. These are going to be so pointed.

[Host 1]

They're going to be so go off queen.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

Being unsure of yourself. Creatively disgusting to me.

[Host 1]

Disgusting.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

Disgusting to me. Like, having to seek artistic approval from. From, like, everyone or, like, from your partner. Really tough for me. Like, I'm like, just do what you're gonna do. Like, do what's on your heart. Like, it's just so the opposite of how I am as a person. Like, I'm just like, ew. Like, yeah, What? Like, okay, like, do as I say,

[Host 2]

not as I do.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

Yeah. I. I think kind of clout chasing nature. I've dated some clout chasers, and I was really bad at kind of picking up on that behavior, but now I. I think I can spot it from a mile away.

[Host 2]

Horrible.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

It's just like, I feel like people that are kind of clout chasing in nature, they don't have a lot of real friendships.

[Host 2]

Yeah.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

Also. Also a true red flag for me is like, I want to know how long all of your best friends have been in your life.

[Host 2]

Okay.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

I want to know. I really, really want to know at

[Host 2]

what point in duration of that relationship is it a red flag if they're. A year?

[Mackenzie Thomas]

If they're brand new? Like, how many people have stuck around?

[Host 2]

Sure.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

And if that number is, like, under five, I can't.

[Host 2]

Five best friends.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

I have, like, so many best friends.

[Host 2]

I got 14. Then how are they all. How are they best friends? I guess what you're saying, I mean, you can give. So you guys are both very popular.

[Host 1]

Semantics.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

Yeah, but if. If. If you don't have a lot of, like, fur lifers. I notice it.

[Host 1]

I'm at the bar with my day twos.

[Host 2]

Yeah. Yeah, exactly.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

And, like, also, it just. I want to be able to, like, really know you. I want to be you go to the bathroom. I want to ask this person about. About you. If they're a day two, they. They only know what you did last Tuesday and that's it.

[Host 3]

Right.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

But other red flags. This is gonna just make me sound like an idiot, but it's fine. Talking about other women in front of me and like saying like, a girl walks into a bar and being like, that is the most beautiful girl in New York.

[Host 1]

Why would they. Why would they have people done. That's for punishment, idiots.

[Host 2]

That's morale.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

Thanks. I'm really happy to.

[Host 1]

So that's like common sense.

[Host 2]

No, I mean, maybe if it's Casey Musgraves hit that.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

No, literally. And I've just. I just. I thought for a really long time that that's just like how men are.

[Host 1]

No, I think you just dated some shitty guys.

[Host 2]

Yeah.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

Oh, yeah. No, I know. I have anyone who. Who's considering dating. Anybody that I've dated. They are bad people and they suck. Like, I. I have. I had awful taste. But yeah, I think, I think telling me about other women, what you would do to other women, like what Is just like, that's crazy.

[Host 2]

What they would do.

[Host 1]

That's like psychological manipulation.

[Host 2]

Oh, God.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

Or like doing what stuff you would do to, like, my friends.

[Host 2]

What? Even worse.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

Yeah, I know. I've really, really put up with a lot.

[Host 2]

Clear.

[Host 1]

Maybe when the ex boyfriend said you were tasteless. Maybe. Man talking about your taste in men.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

Well, he was. He's speaking for himself.

[Host 1]

Prophetic.

[Host 2]

In the interest of this program, what about. Could you date a guy who dresses like. Like, does that matter to you?

[Mackenzie Thomas]

I have a really specific kind of stuff that I like. There's like certain archetypes that I like in.

[Host 1]

In a man.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

Yeah.

[Host 1]

What are they?

[Mackenzie Thomas]

I like, used to date. I dated two uniform dressers back to back. Never doing that again because that ties into something very neurotic.

[Host 2]

Sure.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

Within. But I. I don't really like the guy to be trying. No, no, no.

[Host 2]

Go off.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

Like being like, trying to really, like, put on a say something outfit every single day. Like, you don't need to be putting on a say something outfit. Like, I like a boy in a good T shirt.

[Host 1]

Okay.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

I like a boy in a good T shirt. I like a guy in a good suit. Like any. Any girl. Like, my biggest crush is like, Paul McCartney's night.

[Host 2]

Okay. Sure.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

Now.

[Host 2]

Yeah.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

Hard Disney era. I like a good pair of jeans. And like, I don't know. You just gotta be cute things. You gotta be cute.

[Host 1]

Clean.

[Host 2]

Clean and cute.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

Well, kempt and the Thing is, I want to say yes, but it's. But. Oh. The last guy I dated didn't wash his hair.

[Host 2]

Okay.

[Host 1]

Would you rather be put through the wall by a skater boy who doesn't own a bed frame?

[Mackenzie Thomas]

Me, thinking about it. So happy.

[Host 2]

Okay.

[Host 1]

Or date a finance bro who's got big money but tiny dick?

[Mackenzie Thomas]

I want to be put through the wall by the skater boy, obviously.

[Host 2]

Yeah, that's pretty obviously.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

But my friends would really want me to say finance bro. Know, we've kind of been on this

[Host 1]

thing kind of like pros, and they

[Mackenzie Thomas]

want me to date, like, a data analyst.

[Host 2]

Yeah.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

Girl.

[Host 2]

I don't know. An AI programmer.

[Host 1]

How do you. Okay. What are. So you mentioned the nice T shirt, the nice jeans this spring and summer. Like, what do you want to see the fellas doing sartorially wise, and what should they stop doing?

[Mackenzie Thomas]

Like, fashion wise.

[Host 1]

Fashion wise?

[Host 2]

Yeah. Put an end to some. Right now

[Mackenzie Thomas]

I have to really think about that, what I want them to stop doing.

[Host 2]

Well, what do you want to see? Maybe we start there. Glass half.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

What do I want to see?

[Host 2]

Yeah. Summer.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

I honestly, I want to see men in. Is this vertical?

[Host 2]

That's a horizontal, horizontal stripe. That's. That's the opposite of vertical. It's horizontal.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

I want to see horizontal stripes.

[Host 1]

So we feel you, you. We agree. But the challenge there is that a lot of times when guys put that on the horizontal stripe, they look like a little boy.

[Host 2]

Yeah. Or. Or like a mime.

[Host 1]

Yeah. Which comedy.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

I like.

[Host 1]

I think they look cute because they don't say. Yeah, yeah.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

I like. I like a stripe. I like, I like. I'm just trying to think about, like, the boys that I know and what they're wearing and what I would just, like, fix about all of it.

[Host 1]

Shorts down to the shins.

[Host 2]

Oh, oh, oh.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

Honestly, I don't know if I can really speak on what boys should wear on the bottom for the summer.

[Host 1]

Okay.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

I don't know, because they don't know if a boy wears the wrong shorts. It's like, it's actually so over for you, like, in any space. Like, it is. I've seen you in a light now that I never, like, shined. Like, I don't know. Like, I, I. I like. I like an athletic short, though. That's kind of like a vintage look to it. I like that. I love a good pair of, like, dirty sneakers and again, a good T shirt.

[Host 2]

It's like the Bushwick gym Fit is what you're kind of describing.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

Love. Love.

[Host 1]

What is it? Okay, what's the worst first date you've ever been on?

[Mackenzie Thomas]

Mackenzie, I don't really go on a lot of dates.

[Host 1]

Okay.

[Host 2]

Okay.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

But it wasn't a bad first day at all. But recently, I went on a date with a guy and got too drunk, and I almost threw up on him.

[Host 1]

Oh, wow.

[Host 2]

But you didn't, and that's what counts.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

So, like, I was. It's so bad. I. It's just going to paint me as the most villainous. We kissed, and then I realized that I was really drunk. We were also on a rooftop. And immediately after we kiss, I started going, oh, and it wasn't him. I was just really drunk.

[Host 1]

Vertigo from.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

Yeah, I know. And I just, like, almost threw up and, like.

[Host 1]

Did he think it was him?

[Mackenzie Thomas]

No. I really tried to make sure to tell him that it wasn't him.

[Host 2]

Did he believe you?

[Mackenzie Thomas]

And he went and he, like, got me a glass of water, and he's like, soup. Super, super nice on you, but yeah, no, it was on me and I. Yeah.

[Host 1]

Did you vomit burp while you were like.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

No, nothing.

[Host 1]

Okay.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

Nothing came like.

[Host 1]

No, but one of those, like, stinky, like, bile burps, you know?

[Mackenzie Thomas]

No, it was very dry.

[Host 2]

Okay.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

It was very dry, but I felt queasy. But it was. It was dry. It had.

[Host 1]

What is this guy?

[Mackenzie Thomas]

They had, like, no Hutzfah. But, like, it was still a bad

[Host 2]

visual, too, from his point of view, I would imagine.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

Yeah. And I'm, like, retching like a cat over the side of the. Fireball the building.

[Host 2]

Okay. Was there another date after that?

[Mackenzie Thomas]

No. Okay. But I left my watch at his house, and I. Whenever I leave stuff at a boy's house, even if I like them or not, I'm like, they can just throw it out. Oh, yeah, they can just throw watch.

[Host 2]

Cheap watch. Clearly.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

Yeah. I always buy cheap jewelry because I know I'm gonna lose it.

[Host 1]

Okay.

[Host 2]

Yeah, smart plan ahead.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

Yeah.

[Host 1]

Well, so the past few summers have been, like, pretty historically exceptionally slutty for people. People of all ages, genders, race, religion, creed, etc. How has this summer been? We're about. We're right at the halfway point here. How. How horny has the summer been? Or has everyone just been too obsessed with sports?

[Mackenzie Thomas]

I think people are obsessed with sports, and it makes them horny in a different way. It makes them socially horny in, like, an athletic way that I don't really engage with, like a jock.

[Host 2]

Jock way

[Mackenzie Thomas]

of creating rituals to talk. Talk with other men.

[Host 2]

They need it, though.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

Yes. No, I think have it. Have it. But this Summer for me has been. Because last summer I was just a hole for a loser.

[Host 1]

Another. A different one.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

No, you should print Last Summer.

[Host 2]

You. That should be the title of your memoir.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

Yeah. I was a whole. I was a hole for a loser last summer.

[Host 1]

Last summer. Last summer.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

Yeah.

[Host 2]

That's in the past.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

Yeah. And this summer, I have been saying it's my savior, safe summer. And I have been sexing and everyone.

[Host 1]

S A, F E. Yeah.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

Yeah. Oh, no. I just, I need. I've been really enjoying the summer as a single person. This is the first summer I've been single probably since summer camp.

[Host 2]

Oh, wow.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

So I have been just digesting it really slowly. Like, my summer playlist is very calm. It's all songs that I feel like, can be, like, blown away on the breeze.

[Host 1]

What's the first song on there?

[Host 2]

There. This sounds very Zen. It actually sounds wonderful.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

The name of the playlist is It's Quiet but the Heat has a sound.

[Host 2]

And could you write that?

[Mackenzie Thomas]

Yeah.

[Host 2]

Okay.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

And. But the picture for it is Invader Zim fan art.

[Host 1]

Okay.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

It's kind of a passionate embrace of two of the main characters in my first song on the playlist. First three, Please Let Me Dream by Jay and the Americans. Beautiful song. Song off you by the Breeders and Take a Bow by Madonna.

[Host 2]

Nice.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

And I, I, I've been just kind of being safe and soundtrack told people that I'm probably not gonna have sex with anybody this summer.

[Host 1]

That's great.

[Host 2]

Good for you.

[Host 1]

If that's what you want to do.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Host 1]

I'm halfway there.

[Host 2]

Or have you, have you broken your rules?

[Host 1]

If you got to think about it, it wasn't that memorable.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

Yeah, No, I have. I, I, I'm good. I'm good. I just, I need time. I, I haven't been single as an adult, truly, during the summer ever.

[Host 2]

This is you time.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

Yeah.

[Host 1]

So how are you spending your single summer days and evenings?

[Mackenzie Thomas]

I'm with my friends with my amazing Maria Hernandez and Maria Hernandez. And we smoking weed and getting anxiety and regretting everything I like. I'm doing karaoke. I'm going to Sugar Hill. Doing. Carrying.

[Host 2]

What's your go to?

[Mackenzie Thomas]

Okay. I have a list.

[Host 1]

Oh, nice.

[Host 2]

Nice. This is. We're dealing with the pro, clearly.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

I, I, I roll with a lot of gay guys. I gotta be ready. My go to used to be Cancer by My Chemical Romance.

[Host 2]

Okay.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

Which is a perfect karaoke ballad because it's like two minutes and it has, like, emotional peaks and valleys. I've been really into. I'm not gonna teach Your boyfriend How to Dance by the Black Kids lately. And what else did I do? I used to do Santeria. Oh, love Santeria. And it. Someone once came up to me and was like, I've never heard it done like that. In a way that they were like, you need to get.

[Host 1]

And you're like, booth, I don't practice.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

And a crystal ball, I do not have it on me.

[Host 2]

Don't got one.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

But I'm going to karaoke and I'm just really enjoying having time with my friends.

[Host 1]

And just wait, where do you go to karaoke? Do you ever go to, like, Sugar Hill?

[Host 3]

Yeah.

[Host 1]

Is that Bushwick?

[Mackenzie Thomas]

No, it's in Bed Stuy. You. Have you ever been. You've never been there?

[Host 1]

Never.

[Host 2]

That one.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

It's. I think it's the best bar in New York.

[Host 2]

Really?

[Host 1]

Oh, all right.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

Yeah.

[Host 1]

Is it. Is it private room or is it in the public?

[Mackenzie Thomas]

It's in the public, but it has a light up disco floor and all of the drinks come in, like, plastic cups. And it's a very liminal space, but it's. It's awesome. It is a amazing bar. And I had a. A great night about a couple a month ago with my friends there. And, like, yeah, I've just been, like, loving my friends to be. Now I'm not in a relationship at all. My mind is completely unoccupied. I can really be the best friend ever.

[Host 1]

And are all your friends also enjoying, like, maybe they're in, like, long term relationships or they're single themselves.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

So we're all single right now.

[Host 1]

They're all on the same wavelength.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

I have one friend that has a new boyfriend who I like a lot.

[Host 2]

Nice.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

But we're mostly all single. And it's just been, like, really beautiful.

[Host 1]

Generally speaking. How horny has this summer been? Because it has been like a summer for the ages.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

I think it has been really horny. I think last summer was hornier, though. Well, I think every. I honestly think the media. The media wants you to believe that every summer is the horniest summer. Horny summer was last summer. I walk by an establishment, I'm like, I had sex in there. I was fingered in there. I did this there. Like, I'm like, oh, my God. God, I was a hole for a loser. There, there, there, there. And like, this summer, I feel like we're matured.

[Host 2]

Okay.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

We've let the. The wine of last summer sit out for a year. It's breathed and, like, I can't. It's decanted and. And we're. It's it's. Honestly, it's not horny this summer is. It's sexy.

[Host 2]

Oh, interesting.

[Host 1]

It just feels good.

[Host 2]

Grown. Grown and sexy.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

And you don't, don't. You just can let it kind of ride on the breeze. It's quiet, but the heat has a sound.

[Host 1]

Boom.

[Host 2]

Last summer we were. This summer, we're making love.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

We're just sexy. We're just sexy.

[Host 1]

You mentioned how you've been broke for a while.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

Yes.

[Host 1]

What's like, the brokest behavior that you've had to, oh. Partake in as an adult?

[Mackenzie Thomas]

Okay.

[Host 1]

Like, when was it, like, really bad?

[Mackenzie Thomas]

So when I was living in la, I moved there to kind of escape my parents dissolving marriage, as one does. Very, very broke there. Like, I was eating. This is how kind of the decline of my health began. I was so broke that I was eating a cucumber and a peanut butter sandwich. Not even with the top bread.

[Host 2]

Open face.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

Open face. And one chicken tender a day.

[Host 3]

Wow.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

I was so broke.

[Host 1]

One meal or spread out

[Mackenzie Thomas]

sandwich in the morning, chicken finger, cucumber at night.

[Host 2]

That is not enough.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

It's not. And maybe like a kind bar in between.

[Host 1]

Did you get a sauce for the chicken tender?

[Mackenzie Thomas]

Oh, yeah. I was, like, addicted to Buffalo Wild Wings mild sauce because I love spicy stuff. And I would love, love to be like, the best hot sauce or something that's like super spicy. But the best hot sauce ever is Buffalo Wild Wings mild. It's like the perfect spice. They sell it on this in the shelves.

[Host 1]

Would you buy one tender at a time or would you buy, like.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

I would go to Ralph's and buy a bag and then. Yeah. But I was. When I was really poor, I was working in thrift stores. I used to work at Iguana on Hollywood Boulevard.

[Commercial Announcer]

Hard.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

I used to work on the Walk of Fame. Okay. And, like, must have seen some.

[Host 1]

Yeah.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

I was, like, surviving on, like, minute rice as well. And like, it was not until I started working kind of like social media strategy jobs behind the scenes that I was, like, able to, like, really feed myself because my parents aren't really talking to me at the time. And I was like a baby. Like, I was just kind of birthed into the world.

[Host 2]

Thrown to the wolves.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

Yeah. And, like, like, I wish I had more money or, like, was able to develop better habits younger because, like, now I am paying the price for it. As a older adult in my late

[Host 1]

20s, was there a moment where you felt, like, financially secure in that you had like, okay, I've kind of like, no solidified weather, the storm? No, you're. Are you still on the precipice?

[Mackenzie Thomas]

Not anymore. Not anymore. But I. I'm actually doing a job that will, I think, really save me, which is great. But I think it's been a hard couple years. Like, I panicked about money every day for years of my life. I hate asking people for money. I will starve, I will sleep on a couch. I will do anything not to ask people for money. It really embarrasses me. And like, yeah, I would just like. I was like taking a lot of Excedrin because I was getting headaches all the time. I like lost an extreme amount of weight and looked really sickly for a really, really long stretch of time. But after moving to New York, I was able to like, get healthier.

[Host 2]

You love that for you.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

Because there's more work. There's more work for me here. Yeah, yeah, but. And it's like, people like, get a job. I had one. I had one. I was working at Iguana on Hollywood Boulevard and the Goodwill on Sunset. So I don't know what to tell you.

[Host 1]

How much money to make now.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

I don't want to say.

[Host 2]

Okay, that's fair.

[Host 1]

What do you like to spend your hard earned money on?

[Mackenzie Thomas]

I.

[Host 1]

Besides what we talk about cool stuff on Amazon.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

Spend money on art.

[Host 1]

Oh, really?

[Mackenzie Thomas]

Yeah.

[Host 1]

Friends art or like, are you collecting?

[Mackenzie Thomas]

I. I feel responsible to like buy art pieces that are like made by people who do like kind of like net art stuff because it's really important.

[Host 2]

Deviantart.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

Yeah. Yeah. I can't talk about deep any NFTs. No, no, no. But I think things I've bought have been like, I have this crazy painting in my room of two anime girls and a dog and they're in bikinis. They have like really big boobs. The first thing I look at when I wake up and I found it online, it was like an artist of a friend of a friend. And I'm like, I have to be buying this because this is the art that I want to see.

[Host 2]

How much does the big titty anime

[Mackenzie Thomas]

girl plus puppy girl make a lot of money? It was like, I think it was like 400. Oh. But I like Reformation. One Reformation dress, one Reformation dress.

[Commercial Announcer]

It's.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

It will last longer than that. And like, like I just bought another piece from a girl who did something that was like a Google search bar. And I just got that and put that in my room. But I feel really responsible to like buy art that I want to see more of like in the world. And also I buy a lot of clothes.

[Host 1]

Yeah.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

Yeah, a lot. But, like, vintage. Yeah. Because I. I worked in vintage clothing stores for a really long time, and, like, I don't know, but I'm still to make, like, my big girl purchase. I had, like, a great job that I got fired from a couple years ago, and I, like, bought a vintage mew. Mew.

[Host 1]

Why? Why do you get fired?

[Mackenzie Thomas]

Well, they wanted to move in a different direction.

[Host 2]

That's what they. That's what. That's what they. That's what they told you?

[Mackenzie Thomas]

Yeah, they wanted to move in a different direction.

[Host 2]

So you got, like, laid? No, no. You got fired?

[Mackenzie Thomas]

Actually, yeah. Yeah. Well, I was making memes for a nonprofit. Oh, stupid.

[Host 2]

How funny. How good were the memes?

[Mackenzie Thomas]

Well, I can't go full force right the way I would want to because

[Host 2]

it's not for profit.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

Yeah. And like, they're like, these have to be positive. And I'm like, well, the language of the Internet is negative.

[Host 2]

That's true.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

And they.

[Host 1]

I just got this plan B from Planned Parenthood. Epic bacon.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

Yeah. No, and they. Yeah, it just didn't work out. Yeah, they were moving in a different direction. That direction didn't involve MacKenzie.

[Host 1]

Yeah.

[Host 2]

All right.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

Welcome.

[Host 1]

Yeah. Hope they go bankrupt. All right, so you spend your money on clothes. Oh, what's a dumb purchase that you've made recently?

[Mackenzie Thomas]

I know the answer to this. I do. Dumb, dumb, dumb. Purchase something.

[Host 1]

A big ticket item off Amazon.

[Host 2]

She's buffering, folks. We'll get.

[Host 1]

There was a clothing related.

[Host 2]

Art related.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

Definitely, definitely.

[Host 2]

Oh,

[Host 1]

okay.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

I paid a psychic a hundred dollars to answer some questions for me that did not come true. And she lives in France and I have to contact her via WhatsApp. And it was literally insane. Actually, I think it was $200. And I felt really fucking stupid about that.

[Host 2]

But you liked her scammed.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

Yeah.

[Host 2]

You liked her answers in the moment, but they didn't come to fruition.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

I liked her answers in the moment and. And she still will message me being like, did it happen? Like, I think it's gonna happen.

[Host 1]

Maybe it doesn't happen. Or was it very much like a specific thing that did not happen?

[Mackenzie Thomas]

If it happened now, I would have to push it away.

[Host 2]

Oh, it's something.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

You no longer susceptible to stuff like that when I'm vulnerable.

[Host 1]

Okay. You're like astrology, and I love astrology.

[Host 2]

Crystals.

[Host 1]

Chart.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

You guys go first.

[Host 1]

I don't know. Cancer.

[Host 2]

Aries.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

What's your moon?

[Host 1]

No idea.

[Host 2]

No, I couldn't tell you.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

I'm a sag water.

[Host 1]

Sign.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

The thing is, I know so much about astrology. Could never mentally keep like water sign, fire sign in my head.

[Host 1]

I have no idea. I know cancer's.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

No, I think crab. Just fire.

[Host 1]

I don't know what is a Sagittarius? We're like a horse thing.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

Okay, I'll give you famous Sagittariuses.

[Host 2]

Okay.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

Nicki Minaj, J.T. the girl.

[Host 1]

Oh, okay.

[Host 2]

So female rappers.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

Yeah, female rappers. Who else is a Sag?

[Host 1]

Sylvie Plath.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

Definitely not.

[Host 2]

Madonna.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

Madonna. Definitely not. She's a Virgo. But, you know, we're kind of outspoken and very spontaneous in nature. But I'm also an Aquarius moon, so I'm very creative.

[Host 2]

Ah, sure.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

And then I'm a Leo rising, so I present more as Leo.

[Host 2]

Which means what?

[Mackenzie Thomas]

Like Leos are very. The lion alpha. Like they are in a room. Like, like they're there.

[Host 1]

You're in a room right now, girl.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

I'm in a room. I'm in a room. They make their presence known. But I also am a Capricorn Venus, which I think is one of the worst placements someone could have.

[Host 2]

Oh, no. Okay.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

Yeah, it's like, it's kind of like a cursed lover placement.

[Host 1]

We'll get back to you. We'll send you our birth charts. Then maybe you can like.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

Yeah, we can put.

[Host 2]

Let us know what the deal is.

[Host 1]

Read them live on pod. You are in a room, but you're gonna be out of this room soon because we are on the last question, which is Mackenzie Thomas, do you have any constructive criticism that you would like to give us before we get you out of here?

[Host 2]

Yeah, we've been hanging out for almost two hours now.

[Host 1]

How can.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

No, but I think that you guys have just like really unbelievable voices. Like, you sound like guys on a podcast.

[Host 2]

Oh, so we were like bo. We were made for it.

[Commercial Announcer]

Yes.

[Host 1]

Sounds of our actual voice.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

Actually, like, meeting you guys in person was tripping me out because I was like, okay, so they sound like that in real life.

[Host 2]

Oh, you thought we were doing it, like putting on an act.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

Like, I just thought like, they're so guy podcast voice that, like, it was like you were. Because when I, I, I was like.

[Host 1]

You thought we like auto tune our shit?

[Mackenzie Thomas]

No, it just like you guys a compliment on it in a way. Yeah, yeah, yeah, sure. I hear listening to you guys talk, it reminds me of not the content, just voice wise. Did you ever listen to car talk?

[Host 2]

Oh, yeah, they're. They're iconic.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

Yeah. You never listen to car talk Drive.

[Host 1]

I don't. I Grew up in New York.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

I don't have a car, and I remember just passing out in the back seat, like, while my dad was driving, listening to car talk and being like, these are men's voices.

[Host 2]

This is actually car talks. Crazy compliment. That's.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

Yeah. So when I hear you guys speak, it does remind me of car talk. Not the content, but the same kind of. Just kind of meant for it. Yeah. Built for it. Built for it.

[Host 1]

You're a big voice note user. If I. And I'm not. But if I use voice notes, then it wouldn't have been, like, as much of a shock when you walked in here.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

I have to use voice notes because I need people to hear my tone.

[Host 2]

Ah, right.

[Host 1]

You're a born podcaster.

[Host 2]

I know it's coming one day.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

I'm not in a rush.

[Host 2]

One day soon.

[Host 1]

Where can the kids follow you? Is there anything you would like to plug? Should they read the sex party?

[Mackenzie Thomas]

Sure. Okay.

[Host 1]

10 the one woman show.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

You can follow me on Instagram. My Instagram's at Mackenzie. You can follow me on Twitter @Evil McKenzie. My YouTube is MacKenzie Thomas Surprise. And I have a short film out right now called I'm at Home, where I surveilled myself for 30 days on security cameras in my bedroom. And then you could read my blog.

[Host 1]

Did you have to cut anything? What's the most embarrassing thing from the 30 days you had to cut?

[Mackenzie Thomas]

Yeah, that was a question.

[Host 1]

Besides, like, the obvious, you know, like,

[Mackenzie Thomas]

Like, Well, I leave in some really embarrassing stuff.

[Host 2]

Yeah, but there's got to be something that you were like, this is even beyond the pale for me. Right. And can you share?

[Mackenzie Thomas]

I kept the most embarrassing thing in.

[Host 2]

Really?

[Mackenzie Thomas]

Yeah.

[Host 2]

Well, don't spoil it so people will actually watch it.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

Ah, it's fine. There's good stuff in there. I. I kept in me cr. Singing a Weezer song to myself and then just immediately crying and then going from there and just, like, looking at my phone.

[Host 2]

That's the Weezer difference, though. You know, song.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

It's the one that's really popular on Tick Tock right now.

[Host 2]

Wait, off the Blue album? Off Pinkerton.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

No, go away.

[Host 2]

Oh, don't go. It's on the. Oh, that's a green album joint. Yeah. Okay.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

But I love Weezer. Yeah. And you can watch that and you can read my article about the sex party that I intended on interview magazine.com and I might do my show. I said what I said bring it back. And you can find out about all of that on Instagram.

[Host 2]

Amazing.

[Host 1]

All right, Mackenzie. Thank you for coming on to Podcast Matters. Shout out, Max, if you've made it this far.

[Host 2]

Yeah.

[Host 1]

Thank you for your service.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

He definitely has.

[Host 1]

He definitely has.

[Mackenzie Thomas]

Oh, and did I plug my blog, my sub stack? I will do whatever I want, post every single month about everything I'm doing every single month.

[Host 1]

There you go.

[Host 2]

We love it.

[Host 1]

Tap in. All right, Mackenzie, thank you for coming onto the only podcast that matters. Chef, take us out.

[Host 3]

Marketing is hard, but I'll tell you a little secret. It doesn't have to be. Let me point something out. You're listening to a podcast right now, and it's great. You love the host. You seek it out and download it. You listen to it while driving, working out, cooking, even going to the bathroom. Podcasts are a pretty close companion. And this is a podcast ad. Did I get your attention? You can reach great listeners like yourself with podcast advertising from Libsyn Ads. Choose from hundreds of top podcasts offering host endorsements or run a pre produced ad like this one across thousands of shows. To reach your target audience in their favorite podcasts with Libsyn Ads, go to Libsyn ads.com that's L I B S Y N ads.com today.