The Matt McCormick Interview with Throwing Fits

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Matt McCormick Interview with Throwing Fits

Throwing Fits – Released May 25, 2026

---

Overview

This episode features artist Matt McCormick—painter, sculptor, and creative force behind the brand "One of These Days"—as he sits down with the Throwing Fits hosts for a candid, wide-ranging conversation. Topics span his upbringing, art career, views on the American West and masculinity, the business of art, and how modern forces like Instagram and AI are reshaping creative industries. McCormick discusses the pitfalls, pleasures, and ironies of both his own journey and contemporary culture with signature irreverence and self-awareness.

---

Key Discussion Points and Insights

Return to New York & Origins

• Matt expresses deep appreciation for New York, sharing nostalgia-laden stories from his earlier debauched days in the city (01:16–01:55).
• Recounts formative nights of mischief and chaos, including moments that later inspired his art.

"I made a painting about the apartment and there was someone answering the door...there were always dead flowers on the table." – Matt McCormick (01:55)

Fit Check & Personal Style

• Matt’s daily kit: black Timbs (not fully laced), vintage Levi’s/Carhartts, a Giants hat (more sentimental than sporty), jewelry, a Santa Muerte necklace, and consistently, "One of These Days" socks (02:45–08:27).
• Discusses emotional significance behind clothing choices, especially a burnt and repaired J.Crew Liquor Store shirt, and a commitment to wearing all black in honor of a departed friend (04:15–08:27).

"I'm not a nerd, so... and I don't wear construction." – Matt McCormick (03:16)

Smoking, Ritual, and Artistic Motifs

• Describes his on-and-off relationship with cigarettes and how the ritual, rather than the addiction, inspires his work (09:00–11:22).
• Touches on a previous art series in Hong Kong centered on cigarettes; comments on the reduced appeal of nicotine pouches/Zyns versus traditional smoking as artistic motif (10:31–11:37).
• Acknowledges the deeper aesthetics and symbolism of vices in American imagery.

Sobriety, Drugs, & Art

• Matt reflects on a chaotic past of substance abuse in his New York club days, contrasting it with his sober, more productive years (13:26–15:09).
• Debunks the "tortured, drug-fueled artist" myth—stating real progress began after he got clean (13:52–14:54).

Tattoos, Embarrassing Decisions, & Subculture Roots

• Reveals a history of impulsive tattoos, some with questionable inspiration (16:33–17:26).
• Advocates for living with these moments as part of personal history and authenticity (17:30–18:24).

Nightlife: Sway & New York’s Changing Vibe

• Worked at legendary New York bar Sway; shares perspective on how different nightlife audiences and subcultures intersected there (18:38–19:38).

Masculinity, Archetypes & Homophobia

• Unpacks the shifting nature of American masculinity, the rise of “looksmaxxing,” and internet-borne toxic archetypes (20:10–21:59).
• Cites technology’s impact on identity confusion and polarization (22:09–23:41).

"Everything's kind of turned into this amorphous... growing up, I wanted to look like a punk or I wanted to look like a jock... now it's kind of all." – Matt McCormick (23:28)

Art, Politics, and Critique

• Describes his work as a critique and exploration of American mythologies—especially as they manifest in pop iconography (25:02–26:05).
• Recounts a Trump-era show about radicalization and punk-to-populist pipeline, noting how collectors from across the political spectrum interpreted the show differently (26:00–28:09).

"It's not my job to tell you how to feel about it... I can place these things here." – Matt McCormick (28:09)

Americana, Cowboys, & Evolving Art Practice

• Explains the symbolism of cowboys, Coke cans, Levi’s, and other Americana in his work as representing the spread and impact of American identity (29:47–31:40).
• Shares pride in his cowboy imagery becoming part of mainstream visual culture, but strives not to get pigeonholed (32:10–34:12).

The Art World: Commerce, Scams, and Galleries

• Candidly discusses the art world’s commerce: the pressure to "play the hits" for buyers, attending “the right” galleries, and the challenges of resale/secondary markets (35:11–39:12).
• Explains traditional gallery splits (50/50), their changing roles in the Instagram era, and the tension between community and transaction (40:15–41:37).

"Anyone who tries to deny that there's a commerce element to the art world is out of their mind." – Matt McCormick (46:30)

Instagram, Technology, and AI

• Instagram radically democratized art distribution and audience building; Matt's early regular posting jumpstarted his career (43:24–44:58).
• Reflects on how artists now, especially young ones, often skew their work for IG, but sees benefits and drawbacks (45:28–46:27).
• Regarding NFTs, he reveals disinterest; sees the 2021 NFT boom as a double-edged sword—a platform for digital artists, but largely artificial hype (46:50–48:51).
• Matt approaches AI as simply another tool: uses it to plan installations, tweak photos for reference, but underscores that direct human connection remains essential (49:33–53:18).

"For me, [AI is] like, great, it's a tool. I'm not scared of AI... There was a time when people didn't use typewriters..." – Matt McCormick (49:33, 50:54)

Industry Annoyances, Pretensions, and Gatekeeping

• Rants on the persistent pretentiousness and gatekeeping in the art world; advocates for inclusivity and breaking down barriers for outsiders (54:50–58:38).
• Navigates industry politics by prioritizing long-term authenticity and open dialogue over trend-chasing or elitism.

Collecting, Consumption, and Grounded Living

• Shares his love for collecting art books and buying work from artists he admires, like Banks Violette (67:21–69:28).
• Mindful of spending, mainly investing in essentials, his practice, and occasional gifts for loved ones.

Current & Upcoming Projects

• Announces:
  • New glasses drop with Jacques Marie Mage
  • A collectible "Pass the Line" project—a gamified print collaboration with Mike Tyson (106:44–109:06).
  • A solo show in New York at Ratajkowski Gallery (September 11th, 2026), featuring his “One of These Days” lifestyle brand pop-up (109:40–110:34).

"We're bringing the brand, we're bringing the book publishing company... it'll be kind of a takeover." – Matt McCormick (109:58)

Music, Studio Vibes, and Subculture Heritage

• Raised in Marin County, deeply shaped by the Grateful Dead, jazz, and black metal; music is integral to his creative flow (78:11–80:38).
• Family history with the Dead—his dad painted a famous concert backdrop; Matt nearly born at a Dead show (79:12–80:38).

Collaborations & Pop Culture Crossover

• Recalls tour-managing Odd Future, witnessing the discipline of Tyler, The Creator, and how his own substance issues nearly derailed him (81:28–84:38).
• Positive experiences working with Post Malone, credits John Mayer with aid in both watch collecting and his art—working on a painting for Mayer (98:44–99:17, 100:21–100:52).
• Prefers collaborative work, enjoys commissions (sometimes more than personal projects), and values flexibility in client/artist relationships (99:01–100:52).

On Consumerism & Taste

• Enjoys vintage black metal shirts, vintage hunting on eBay/Etsy, but avoids overspending on clothes (93:56–95:01).
• Mindful of excess purchases—most regrets come from impulse Amazon buys for dogs, rather than art or fashion missteps (95:07–95:46).
• Car guy: prefers practical vehicles (Dodge Ram), has a love for Cadillacs, open to brand partnerships (95:48–97:17).

---

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• "I'm not using the images [AI] directly. There was a time when...people didn't use typewriters and they just wrote...either use it and continue or get left out." – Matt (50:54)
• "If your work can escape the art world and enter the regular world, you're doing something." – Matt (34:15)
• "I think we're just really tweaked out because of the Internet...technology is advancing...people are just completely tweaked out on getting information." – Matt (22:09)
• On commercial projects: "That's one reason to do that. Another reason is...the more of that stuff I do, the more freedom I have with what I want to make." (54:57)
• On Alec Monopoly: "Am I going to buy his work and hang in my house? Not necessarily...but that's for somebody." (61:48)
• "Every great artist—Picasso, Basquiat, whatever—there's someone that's like they're whack. And you're like, they called Van Gogh insane.” (55:54)
• About masculinity and the American male: “I just kind of use the imagery that surrounds me...but I don't know, it's something I've always thought was weird, that being really uncomfortable about [masculinity] stuff.” (20:10)

---

Timestamps for Important Segments

• Early New York memories, origin stories: 01:16–02:45
• Fit check / personal style: 02:45–08:27
• Smoking ritual, art motifs: 09:00–11:22
• Sobriety & creative journey: 13:26–15:09
• Masculinity, archetypes, and the internet: 20:10–23:41
• Art, politics & critique of Americana: 25:02–34:12
• Commerce, gallery politics, Instagram: 35:11–46:27
• AI, NFTs, changing tools: 49:33–53:18
• Art world gatekeeping & inclusivity: 54:50–58:38
• Collecting & consumption: 67:21–69:28
• Major projects, collabs (Tyson, Mayer): 106:44–110:34
• Music, creative process: 78:11–80:38
• Odd Future & industry crossover: 81:28–84:38

---

Tone & Language

The episode is both irreverent and insightful—mixing humor, industry critique, behind-the-scenes anecdotes, and frank self-reflection. Matt is unpretentious and candid, the hosts encourage honest, occasionally rowdy dialogue, and topics range from high-minded art theory to everyday absurdities.

---

Final Thoughts

This interview offers a unique window into both the mindset of a working artist and the broader cultural and commercial context he navigates. From the mythos of cowboys to the labyrinthine world of tax-evading gallery deals and the democratizing (sometimes dystopian) effects of Instagram and AI, Matt McCormick’s trajectory is one of adaptation, authenticity, and ever-evolving critique—fuelled as much by punk ethos as by a wry, self-aware optimism.

---

Transcript

[Ad Host]

When it's time to scale your business, it's time for Shopify. Get everything you need to grow the way you want. Like all the way. Stack more sales with the best converting checkout on the planet. Track your cha chings from every channel right in one spot and turn real time reporting into big time opportunities. Take your business to a whole new level. Switch to Shopify. Start your free trial today.

[Interviewer 1]

Support is available 24. 7 with VRBO care.

[Matt McCormick]

We're here day or night, ready whenever

[Interviewer 1]

you need help because a great trip starts with the right support. Our guest this week is here to spice up your life with his take on the American frontier. He's a dog in the studio putting horses on the canvas. Whose work focusing on the iconography of the west has hit more walls than Peter North. As a self taught outsider, he flattered the system and never did things the easy way. Which is why I think he's the first sculptor and painter to come on the only podcast that matters. Here to chat the biggest scammers in the art world, the state of American masculinity and how Instagram has changed the industry. Multimedia artist Matt McCorg. Matt, how are you?

[Matt McCormick]

I'm good, thank you. That was beautiful. Thank you for having me.

[Interviewer 1]

Back to your own stomping grounds? Yeah.

[Matt McCormick]

Yes. Welcome home. One of my. My favorite city. My favorite city in the country and

[Interviewer 1]

then in the world, but literally back in the South.

[Matt McCormick]

Yeah, yeah, that was. That was a real blast. You passed as I turned the corner, I was like, oh, wow.

[Interviewer 1]

Hazy memories of the street. Walking down the street at six in the morning. Don't crack your spine, bro.

[Matt McCormick]

I got. I got patted down by a police officer. Up against a fence, like right outside.

[Interviewer 1]

Stop and frisk.

[Matt McCormick]

It was, it was. We were just really messed up. What are you doing? Yeah, a lot of debauchery next door. I made a painting about actually next door. Really? Yeah.

[Interviewer 1]

Did it sell?

[Matt McCormick]

It did sell. It's out in the world. I don't know how much it sold for. It's a long time ago, but there was a night where this was like. I think there was like, we had pulled like drywall into the apartment and it got hose and we were smashing drywall in this apartment. And at one point my friend. Friend fell and he was bleeding from his forehead. And then the police showed up. He answered the door with blood coming down his forehead. So I made a painting about the apartment and there was someone answering the door. There were always dead flowers on the table. Who is that? It was good times.

[Interviewer 1]

Wow, what a Metaphor. We're gonna get into all that and more. Yeah. Matt, as the first artist and sculptor to be on the show, presumably, as James said, let's kick it off with a fit check. What's everything you wore today to the pod, bro?

[Matt McCormick]

Okay. Everything I wore today. Let's see here. Well, I. As I mentioned, I. I try to just wear what I wear every day, so I have.

[Interviewer 1]

Cause you looked cute last night.

[Matt McCormick]

Yeah, because I was told I looked cute last night. We got black Timbs because we're in New York.

[Interviewer 1]

How laced up are they? They're the talk to her. Okay. Not all the way up.

[Matt McCormick]

No, you can't do all the way up. I can't do the tongues out because

[Interviewer 1]

I. I got to walk as a white man, to be clear.

[Matt McCormick]

Exactly.

[Interviewer 1]

Is just tough on the shins.

[Matt McCormick]

And I. As a white man, and, you know, I'm cognizant of what I look like and that also, you know, but also, I'm not a nerd, so. Right. Of course. And I don't wear construction, so Are those your studio? They. You know what's crazy? So I. I will admit that I was a late adopter of Tim's, and I. A long way without comfortable. They are.

[Interviewer 1]

Yeah.

[Matt McCormick]

Like, I wear a lot of different boots, and you. You put a pair of soles for 90s in these, and it's like wearing tennis shoes. And I. And I messed up my toe last week surfing. And that means. Okay, so we're going for emotional support as well. First up for emotional support. I feel cool. Thank you, Timberland. We've got one of these day socks because that's my favorite thing.

[Interviewer 1]

That's right.

[Matt McCormick]

Matt.

[Interviewer 1]

Does have a brand.

[Matt McCormick]

Does have a brand.

[Interviewer 1]

Are you always wearing one of these days?

[Matt McCormick]

I'm always wearing one of these day socks, for sure. With the stuff of the brand. I'm like, big. A lot of stuff you make is based off of clothes I've been wearing for a long time.

[Interviewer 1]

Okay.

[Matt McCormick]

So not to jump ahead, but, like, the shirt I bought when I discovered menswear from the J. Crew liquor store down in Tribeca.

[Interviewer 1]

Oh, gee.

[Matt McCormick]

Yeah. In, like, 2009.

[Interviewer 1]

It is now a Todd Snyder store.

[Matt McCormick]

Yeah.

[Interviewer 1]

But Todd Snyder ironically helped design that first liquor store.

[Matt McCormick]

So it's kind of like in the full screen. Exactly. Yeah. When that opened, I. My mind was blown. Like I was. Because I, you know, I grew up. I was a punk kid, so vintage. All this stuff that's kind of happening now, but like a barber jacket.

[Interviewer 1]

Yeah.

[Matt McCormick]

Like khakis and that kind of Stuff I was doing all that.

[Interviewer 1]

That's your mind also blown as you were shopping while absolutely up.

[Matt McCormick]

It was. It was like hangover for sure. But yeah. I don't know to me like the design of that place, the whole experience and I always been like sneakies were really popular.

[Interviewer 1]

You can drink whiskey while shopping.

[Matt McCormick]

Ye. It was like. It was like cool. But so this shirt I actually bought then and I have two of them. There's one that's a little more worn and I was cooking eggs two days ago and it caught on fire. So bummed I sewed it together. And that was okay? Yeah, I was fine. But there was just like a big burn right here and I. I couldn't let it go. As you can see. This one's like pretty warning. The other one even more warning. But yeah, so. And then whatever. We got some vintage cards that we have today.

[Interviewer 1]

I want the hat.

[Matt McCormick]

The hat is giants because that's where I'm from. I've got a nice car body. I love it. I get asked about the team all the time. For me it's more about just this is my home.

[Interviewer 1]

You don't know ball like that.

[Matt McCormick]

I don't know current like. I will be very honest. I don't know like current stats or anything like that. It's like grew up going to Candlestick and Pipe Bell park, whatever it's called now and such a huge part of my childhood. And all my baby photos. I'm wearing China so it's just part of the uniform.

[Interviewer 1]

What's your jewels?

[Matt McCormick]

We've got a bracelet that I acquired somewhere maybe in la. A watch that. A watch friend. A Rolex Daytona Presidential that I had just I think finished watching the Sopranos for like the time.

[Interviewer 1]

Sure. That's the Tony Soprano special right there.

[Matt McCormick]

And I was kind of like everyone, you know, jfk, Turner, Soprano. That one looks cool though. Yeah.

[Interviewer 1]

All. All guys that cheat on their wines, I guess.

[Matt McCormick]

Yes. I don't do that. But yes. And then what else? I mean I have a hoodie over there. A hoodie. So I really love just crappy Gildan off Amazon. So I buy one of those pretty much any time I go anywhere. And I have a branch. 12 bucks. Nice. And I love it. That's not for everyone but when I would tour with Odd Future we had a thing where on the rider there was four fresh underwear and fresh white tees delivered to every show. That's fire. So I got used to like throw away. I know, terrible for the environment. Please whatever. Maybe.

[Interviewer 1]

No, it's like just took a 20 minute flight.

[Matt McCormick]

Yeah, it probably works, but. But the $12 Gildan off the Amazon hoodie is one of my favorite things.

[Interviewer 1]

Would you use those fresh white tees and fresh undies because you didn't want to do laundry or was it just kind of like a test? Like, oh, let's see if they're actually, you know, reading the ride.

[Matt McCormick]

No, it was because everyone wanted to, you know, there's nothing better than. I mean, I, I, This, I guess, isn't. It was black at one point. I'm an all black clothing person, but at the time I still wore white tees and everyone else wore white tees. But nothing really feels better than a brand new pair of socks. White tee. And there was a point in one of my many phases where I kept fresh white tees in the trunk.

[Interviewer 1]

How about the, the necklace skipped over that.

[Matt McCormick]

The necklace I just bought in the jewelry district. That's little Santa Muerte pendant. That is like my semi spiritual protector. Yeah. I'm not like a religious person, but the iconography of the Santa Muerte is.

[Interviewer 1]

I don't know if it's working between the tone. It's getting caught on fire.

[Matt McCormick]

It works in some regards. I've got a full shrine in my house.

[Interviewer 1]

Not dead yet. Yeah.

[Matt McCormick]

Yeah.

[Interviewer 1]

What about the panties? Are they black as well?

[Matt McCormick]

They are Hanes Amazon as well. I mean, what? Yeah. All black. Everything black all the time. I made a, I made a promise. This is going to be a little more. A friend of mine passed away and they were all black and I kind of made a promise to wear all black because of the nice, good friend. All right.

[Interviewer 1]

Sipping on some water. Both still and sparkly.

[Matt McCormick]

Yeah. Got to have it.

[Interviewer 1]

They got to have options, Matt. Oh, what about what's under the hat?

[Matt McCormick]

Well.

[Interviewer 1]

Oh, that's right.

[Matt McCormick]

Not really proud of me. I've been semi re smoking a little bit lately.

[Interviewer 1]

Yeah, that's like a.

[Matt McCormick]

These are Japanese. I was just in Japan. I bought a bunch of packs.

[Interviewer 1]

I have a vending machine.

[Matt McCormick]

No, I mean, they're $3. So you're kind of like romantic. No. Basically free. Yeah, exactly.

[Interviewer 1]

But you want to make like the 711 because they have Sig vending machines too.

[Matt McCormick]

Just on everything. Yeah, I didn't, I didn't do that. I just kept going to the 7 11. But it was kind of the thing where I was dabbling in cigarettes again a little bit as socially smoking. And I figured it was better to have the healthy Japanese ones, the unhealthy American ones.

[Interviewer 1]

What makes Them healthy.

[Matt McCormick]

I'm totally talking about my ass. But I told their regulation is a lot more aggressive than ours. And there's charcoal filters which you can only get on one kind of American spirit here. Honestly, I just feel less shitty when I smoke. Totally. It's totally. And I only had like I said, couple.

[Interviewer 1]

Well, speaking of stings. Oh, the shades though. The shades.

[Matt McCormick]

Oh yeah. Oh, and then these are, these are kind of the original to my JMM glasses that I did. I think it was maybe a year and a half, two years ago. We have two more pairs coming out next month.

[Interviewer 1]

Plugin.

[Matt McCormick]

Yeah, of course, shout out to Ja and Jerome. Like bull.

[Interviewer 1]

But speaking of six, those are big motif that are found throughout your work.

[Matt McCormick]

Yes.

[Interviewer 1]

Are you ever going to do now that kind of like, you know, cigs may be in the rearview mirror for yourself and for this new generation especially. Keep up with the kids and maybe developing an audience. Are you starting paintings of Zins or do nicotine pouches not really have the same artistic appeal to you?

[Matt McCormick]

So for me, and actually this is why I, I've been addicted to many things, but I actually don't think I'm addicted to cigarettes. I can put them down and not come back. Must be nice. Yeah. It's one of the only things that I don't add to. But what's funny is kind of sounds like what Nat would say. What's funny is I did a show of cigarettes, of paintings, of cigarettes with Darren Robinelli in Hong Kong years ago. And the idea was to smoke cigarettes. There was kind of like a installational thing in a corner. All the cigarettes work in the gallery and they were all the cigarettes to throw in a corner. And I quit like a month before the show. My body rejected that I was trying to smoke and they made me feel terrible, weird. And so where this in Hong Kong. This was in Hong Kong.

[Interviewer 1]

These Chinese cigarettes. The unregulated.

[Matt McCormick]

Yeah. I don't know. I, I, I didn't get smoking. I wasn't smoking. I was done. So. But the, the other thing is like I actually have kind of moved away from a lot of that. I'm not currently in the work I'm making, but I don't know. We'll see.

[Interviewer 1]

Who Was your boy? Dr. Romanelli.

[Matt McCormick]

Is that him? Yeah.

[Interviewer 1]

Was he first of all, could we get a chair for the studio? He said also the doctor, did he have to, he had to double up on his smoking duties to like make up for your bitch ass pussing out?

[Matt McCormick]

Well, it was just the paintings that he, he was like he was kind of, you know, Darren's like a curator kind of magician of sorts. And he was like putting a guy. It was like he was a watch dealer and my work together was like high end watches and cigarettes. It was like highlight, low contrast hand stuff. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So he was more interested in that conversation than the actual smoking itself. But that was a lot of time.

[Interviewer 1]

This is pretty.

[Matt McCormick]

I mean I totally could. I have no relationship with it. They're great. Everyone give a try. It works. I haven't helped me quit.

[Interviewer 1]

I don't want to throw up on you.

[Matt McCormick]

Yeah, I'll probably throw.

[Interviewer 1]

It's only 6 milligram.

[Matt McCormick]

But. But my business partner, Red Vargas, he shout out Red Vargas. He's my. My work wife. But he has been using those. And then a couple people in the studio know about those. And then those Tucker Carlson ones, I guess they all.

[Interviewer 1]

Oh, that's right.

[Matt McCormick]

He's getting into the game. Yeah. Which I go and bitch about. But yeah, no, I'm addicted to the smoking ritual. Kind of. I need actual smoke and like burning. It's iron. Yeah. I want to feel it.

[Interviewer 1]

It's kind of. It's kind of burn a hole in your thumbs at least for. We're going to find out in the future that at some.

[Matt McCormick]

Yeah, of course. I'm sure. Holding this cancer. Yeah.

[Interviewer 1]

For your reputation, probably. Hey, Matt, before you got sobered, what drugs were in rotation?

[Matt McCormick]

All of them? Yes. I mean, I've talked about this. I don't talk about it a lot just because I. It's. You know, I did a publicist just Burke up. Yeah, I did. I did a high piece. Well, a high piece interview and they really clipped it up to talk about the drugs I was doing. But yeah, I did them all. I lived in New York and work in clubs and all the good ones. I liked the ones that put you to sleep.

[Interviewer 1]

Would you do any before getting busy in the studio and putting brush to canvas? Or was it more of like a All right, day's done, let me go enjoy myself.

[Matt McCormick]

I wasn't really making any work when I was doing drawings. That was kind of the problem is I thought I was going to be an artist. An artist to party. So I partied a lot. It's really bad work. Occasionally, I was gonna say, like looking

[Interviewer 1]

back now at the art that they made while you're fucked up, you're like, that shit was. That shit's terrible.

[Matt McCormick]

It wasn't art. What was drawing. It was like I was doodle. You know what I mean? There was Things. There were paintings. I had shows and things like that, but, like, it was nothing. It was very remedial and, you know, there was no focus. And, you know, and that myth of like, I mean, look, I have plenty of friends who have been successful artists that do a lot of drugs. It works. That's just not my story. Right. You know what I mean? Like, I couldn't do anything. And once I stopped partying and doing all the drugs, that's when I was like, oh, I have to fill this time. And that's where I had the attention.

[Interviewer 1]

You're that tortured artist minus the artist.

[Matt McCormick]

You're just tortured. I was just a fucked up kid.

[Interviewer 1]

If not, he didn't stop partying to make art. You stop partying, I assume to live. And then you're like, let me now figure out what I got to do with myself.

[Matt McCormick]

Yeah, well, it's. The walls were all coming crashing down around me, literally.

[Interviewer 1]

Whether your friend was.

[Matt McCormick]

No, I was, I was in. I, I, I kind of moved to LA and was couched for two years and, and, and I got to do some fun, cool things. But at a certain point, like the party, I realized that people were looking at me.

[Interviewer 1]

Oh.

[Matt McCormick]

Or it was just kind of like it had never been apparent to me. And then I could tell it was apparent just like, you know, you know, and like, you need that.

[Interviewer 1]

That guy's on the couch again.

[Matt McCormick]

Okay. Yeah, well, been on the couch. And just like, you know, at a certain point, I was like, I was, my whole life was kind of like riding the early, odd future days. And I didn't, I lived with my technique boss at the time, my good friend Drake Stowell. And I didn't even get paid. They just paid for my life. And then I was just up like a cat.

[Interviewer 1]

Were you, Was this in your tattoo artist era?

[Matt McCormick]

I had been tattooing. So the tattooing started when I was working at a nightclub here when I was like 21, and I would tattoo, like, security guards that I work with. Then I was tattooing them. They came. The way that all started was they came here and then I just basically moved to la, started working on how to tattoo them. But that was only terrible. When I got sober, I. Yeah, it just all kind of happened, you know,

[Interviewer 1]

Was there ever, like, a moment you're like, that's what I got last night while I was blasting over. Maybe I should chill a little bit. Like Zan, I have.

[Matt McCormick]

Yeah, well, Zan, that's not for the job. That's for my good friend Zan, who I Actually had dinner with last night. Who's the one that told me the person said I look good in the song. But no, I have a few. I have some crazy ones on my legs but nothing, nothing like really bad. You know what I mean? Just like rough. But those are kind of the best.

[Interviewer 1]

Or you gotta cover em.

[Matt McCormick]

Yeah. I have one on my ankles that's relatively embarrassing than I did on my self drill but it tells me what I have. Lady killer riffles that an ex girlfriend of mine convinced me it was a cool, cool tattoo.

[Interviewer 1]

Wow.

[Matt McCormick]

And then she convinced another ex boyfriend of the same thing. Shout out to her.

[Interviewer 1]

It's a weird kink of hers. Very specific.

[Matt McCormick]

Yeah, so that's that one I have like. I don't really believe in coverings, you know. Okay, I'll tattoo over tattoos, but less to cover them up and more just to make it mush.

[Interviewer 1]

I mean, you're also just running out of room at this point.

[Matt McCormick]

Yeah. And I really don't get tattoo. I've. I went like 10 years with that big tattoo. I just got a couple from my friend Dom Knofer at Fun City and then I asked my friend Dylan and I was in Berlin and he did like a stick and poke thing on me. And then I came back and the game trapped and then I got like two really big ones really fast.

[Interviewer 1]

They come in like spurts.

[Matt McCormick]

Yeah. Yeah. I. I promised a friend I would drop a positive podcast so, you know,

[Interviewer 1]

no feast tank tops out here. Call me going Squirts.

[Matt McCormick]

I don't. I don't put pause. I don't believe.

[Interviewer 1]

Don't put any gump spurt on your face.

[Matt McCormick]

I feel like I was not to sound like an egomanic that I got some okay jeans. So I don't want to that up.

[Interviewer 1]

You don't need a killer on your forehead.

[Matt McCormick]

No, I. I like the neck. You know, a little print peeking out here and there. But yeah, I mean, I don't. Everyone's just going to look at that. Yeah. And then I look like the. Then I look like a Soundcloud rapper.

[Interviewer 1]

What bars are we bartending at? And like, what era of New York is this?

[Matt McCormick]

This was 2008, 2009 through like 2012. 11 something there. I worked at Sway, which is now Paul's Casablanca. Yeah.

[Interviewer 1]

Different.

[Matt McCormick]

Some of the best times of my life. I mean to move to New York and be 21 and start working at Sway. I was a busboy then I was a bar. Back then I was a bartender. I mean, I wouldn't trade that.

[Interviewer 1]

You Might have seen us a few nights there just be like.

[Matt McCormick]

Yeah, Mondays or Sundays, just whatever event. Yeah.

[Interviewer 1]

If there's open bar, we would have been.

[Matt McCormick]

Thursdays, they had the free red straps for a while. Monday. Yeah, I mean, Monday. What I loved about it so much was Sunday was Smith's Morse night, which was kind of the skater art, you know, hipster crowd. And then Monday was the rap reggae night. Yeah. So I basically got like two completely different friend groups that I would see back to back.

[Interviewer 1]

Yeah, you know, that was so much fun. Probably the Red stripes usually lead to the White Stripes.

[Matt McCormick]

There are a lot of White Stripes, which I never liked but enjoyed a lot of.

[Interviewer 1]

I want to. Let's talk about your art for a second. Just for a second.

[Matt McCormick]

We'll talk about your art.

[Interviewer 1]

You do kind of like there's a perspective or representation of the American male psyche. What do you think of the current state of the American male as someone that's lived through various generations of like, you know, the dominant archetypes?

[Matt McCormick]

I mean, I talk about it a lot that it's something that when I worked, when I had to leave here, or had to. When I left here overnight, I kicked out here.

[Interviewer 1]

86 New York.

[Matt McCormick]

I 86 myself because I was a trash bag. But when I ended up on Fairfax, because that's. I went from like working in bars New York to working on Fairfax. You know, the aggressive, like, uncomfortability with like everything being like, well, that's gay and that kind of thing. I love to play with that. You know what I mean? I think people think I'm this kind of like super male focused artist and I just kind of use the imagery that surrounds me and so, you know, but I. I don't know, it's something I've always thought was weird that being really uncomfortable about that stuff. And so I don't know the current. I was talking with this the other day because my friend just did like a photo shoot of like a looks maxer and I watched the, you know, the male Manosphere dog the other day and this kind of stuff is happening. And I was trying to. We were trying to figure out, like, why did this happen? You know, what is. What is happening with this, like, chauvinism and this misogyny that's like really bubbling up and I. I kind of like let the. To like the pandemic. People being stuck on like fear so young. Because Ivac, your kid. Yeah, I watched the interview with. I watched the interview him. I just got really sad and depressed and it's Pretty tragic. It's just really like.

[Interviewer 1]

I mean, honestly, it's pretty funny.

[Matt McCormick]

Well, a friend of mine was like, he's kind of a trans man in the sense that, like, he does everything that a trans woman or trans man. Sorry, trans man would do to be a man. But as hormonally male transitioning. Yeah.

[Interviewer 1]

Which a lot of guys like, he's just a circuit queen. This is like, you know, the all, like all the things that go to looks, maxing, match to, say, skating. That's like a gay club thing. Like, come on, that's been.

[Matt McCormick]

Yeah. I don't know that I think we're just really tweaked out because the Internet, something I think I connect to a lot of this is I, I, I looked at the study, looked. This sounds weird, but I, I was, I read this article about this, like, in. Throughout human history, like, our ability as humans to. And the rate in which technology is advancing was kind of like neck and neck. And around 2019, technology just like, exploded. And people, I think, are just completely tweaked out on getting information. Get too much information, it's too easy. And it's like it becomes you just. We all go down rabbit holes. We're all, we have ChatGPT now all this, and it kind of fries people. So I think, like, the, to really answer the question, we are a long way. I think, like, the modern. What I think about the modern man, I think it really depends on where you are, like, and how kind of affected by information and whatever cultures you engage with consistently. I mean, I don't know. When we were kids, you cited your sources and you had to, like, kind of like make sure you were getting straight facts. And I think that's really gone out the window and stuff like you heard it from a friend is true. You know what I mean? And so people kind of base their entire existence off of, like, information that maybe is completely.

[Interviewer 1]

Probably you just gotta state it with confidence.

[Matt McCormick]

Yeah, yeah. And then style and the rest of everything, it's like, it's really like everything's kind of turned into this amorphous. You know, it's like growing up, I wanted to look like a punk or I wanted to look like a jock or all these things, you know, it's like now it's kind of all.

[Interviewer 1]

We're losing our Arkansas recipes. Yeah.

[Matt McCormick]

What is. I don't know. What is a man anymore?

[Interviewer 1]

You know, how is your masculinity to talk about of your early days, you know, kind of going against, like, the homophobia, the endemic Homophobia.

[Matt McCormick]

I mean, I think like my, my, my, my rule to, to life is like, do whatever you want as long as you don't hurt anybody. Sure. Kind of thing, which should be simple and easy, but that's, I think, more challenging than people.

[Interviewer 1]

Sometimes you might not realize that you're hurting people.

[Matt McCormick]

That, that's the other part, you know. But also it's like we went through this whole thing where culturally, like we swung way this way and it was like you couldn't say anything. Know, like comedians, for example. Like, we're able to be comedians now. Eagle swinging back. Yeah, exactly. And now it swinging back and it's like, whoa, it's going to get really crazy on their side. And it's an unfortunate, As a, as a society, we like, can't just find our way to the middle of her. But I don't know. I, I, I would like to consider myself a good person, a good man, you know.

[Interviewer 1]

Has the pendulum swinging ever affected your artwork? Like, not that I'm not saying that you pander to like, what society is into or the trend at the time, but obviously you're creating within like, the greater context of everything. So is that ever, have you ever felt that affect your output?

[Matt McCormick]

I mean, I definitely think about things. I don't, I don't, you know, I'd like to like, skew towards. Like, I have a lot, I like really like following comedians and like the culture around not just what you see in the show, but them hanging out on all the documentaries and, you know, that was a big thing. That's a big thing in that community. It's like, hey, this is a safe space. You can right, do whatever you want, you know. And so I try to lean into that, you know, I don't know. It's weird. I don't really deal with a lot of pushback. I will hear from certain people, like, oh, you're just like, so pro American. Like, you're clearly not right into the work or like, what I'm, I'm critiquing what I'm talking about critiquing the male kind of dominance. I'm critiquing the American nation. But at the same time, like, I am American, right? I'm pretty quintessential American in many regards. But that doesn't mean I can't look at that and be like, this is wrong with it. This is okay with it. And like, I think healthy individual.

[Interviewer 1]

Do you see yourself as a political artist? Maybe, maybe not explicitly, but I don't

[Matt McCormick]

like to be explicit about it because I. And I still work. Yeah. I also get shit and I get shit from friends who are much more politically active. I definitely have my opinions and I definitely skew to the side that I skew. But I also don't think that you can have a conversation with anyone if you're shouting. So if I tell you you're wrong, you're not going to hear anything else I say. Where I did a show a couple years ago and the whole show was about. I basically created a character that was essentially like somewhere between like Tim and McVeigh and like the unibody and. But then through the lens I. There was this podcast that the New York Times had done called Rabble and it followed someone who had like started out as like a, like an Obama supporting punk anarchist guy and had become like a gun toting Trump guy. And they got access to his YouTube algorithm and saw how he essentially got. Yeah. So the show is essentially about someone my age who had started. I got fascinated with all these old punk bands that are now kind of like Trump's born guys. Yeah, exactly. And so I followed this kind of, this thing and I built like the Unabomber cabin of this character in the show and whatever. And there was a huge Trump supporting art collector who's like a big, big, big name in the art world and he bought like some of the best work from the show and loved it. And then other people bought work that are more on the non Trump side of things. But I love that. I mean someone's gonna be mad that I say that. And look,

[Interviewer 1]

to paraphrase Michael Jordan, Republicans buy R2.

[Matt McCormick]

Exactly. But to me that's like cool like that. I wasn't supporting any of that. And you like it because you like it and maybe you like to. Because he likes for some other reason. But like I was critiquing this and you still could engage is going to

[Interviewer 1]

see what they're going to see in the work.

[Matt McCormick]

Right, Exactly. It's not my job to tell you how to feel about it. I can place these things here. Usually you want to be just asking questions and then what happens with you?

[Interviewer 1]

What do you like? So when people are like, oh, you over romanticize Americana, how do you still respond?

[Matt McCormick]

For the most part I stay out. I mean I get to live my little bubble. I, I'm pretty. I, you know, I don't, I don't really get into it with people on the Internet. I think that like that makes everything worse. And I don't really, you know, I'm not Gonna. But I don't really get a lot of flack on the Internet. Every once in a while, someone might say something, but for the most part, like, I. I'll just hear it occasionally, you know, and I. And whatever people think what they think. And like all artists, most people. People. I'm insecure, overthink everything and all that kind of stuff. And so I can go down rabbit holes.

[Interviewer 1]

Do you ever. Whether it's going down the rabbit hole.

[Matt McCormick]

Do everything that we do that I

[Interviewer 1]

would like, over romanticize a mythological Americana, for sure.

[Matt McCormick]

I mean, there's a lot of work that I. I mean, if. If someone were to, like, go through everything I've made For the last 10 years, there is very much like what I'm making today right now. And what I'm making. Was making six years ago, say, very different. Very different. It was very cowboy focused, very, like, leaning in that. Because I was kind of chasing something that I was figuring out. That's what you do as an artist. You kind of, like, pull a string. Just keep pulling in. And I hit a wall where I was like, this is too much of this. I need to, like, go this direction and turn. Because I'm not saying what I'm trying to say.

[Interviewer 1]

What's the current direction?

[Matt McCormick]

I mean, I'm always trying to figure out. Every show is. Is different. Like, I just did a show in Japan, and the show is. I mean, everything is. It was a small space, so I made smaller works. And it was. I was using images. I got all these postcards of locations where, like, very pivotal things in American history happens. Like the crossing of the segregation line in the school of Hidden Arkansas and, like, the place where the atomic bomb was made and, like, the Kennedy shooting and all these kind of moments that, like, really changed the course of history. And it was like postcard with, like, a painted canvas of a color that's associated with. It was very, like, conceptual, cerebral. Yeah, yeah. But then there was a painting of a Coke can from when Coke relaunched, this new Coke. And I was really interested in this. It's like a idea of, like, Coke colonization of the world where, like, During World War II, Coca Cola wanted to make it so all GIs could get a bottle of Coke anywhere in the world. So the Coke, like, brand spread across the entire world, which basically pushed American values around the entire world. And I really like that subtle. That's. I find that fascinating. It's not that I talked about it, because they're like, yeah, American odi for that. No, I was like, look at what happened. Right.

[Interviewer 1]

This is a thing.

[Matt McCormick]

Crazy.

[Interviewer 1]

Most recognized word in the world. What's number one?

[Matt McCormick]

Okay. Coca Cola is number two. And okay is number one.

[Interviewer 1]

Okay.

[Matt McCormick]

That's crazy. Yeah. I mean, for me, it's, it's. It's. Yeah, I guess. So, like, why is the cowboys the rest the cowboys were shorthand for the same thing. Like, to me, cowboy, Coke, can Marvel cigarettes, Ford Chevy truck, totally muscle car, you know, Levi's.

[Interviewer 1]

Jeez.

[Matt McCormick]

All this stuff, it's like they're all

[Interviewer 1]

the same thing to me.

[Matt McCormick]

You know, it's a language and it transcends music and movies and fashion and all this stuff. And that's what I'm talking about. It's like that, like, what is this thing? Like that, like, permeates the whole world. And so in the book for the show, the book had like a one on one book that was part of the show. There were photos of Coca Cola advertisements in like all over the world, like Tibet, in, like places where you're like, well, this is like,

[Interviewer 1]

who's your favorite cowboy?

[Matt McCormick]

Who's my favorite cowboy? Dennis Hoburn. Okay. Hell yeah. Good answer.

[Interviewer 1]

Have you ever had cowboys give you feedback on the work? Yeah.

[Matt McCormick]

Yeah. So something I'm really proud of is that work in specific series that I've done has entered the life vernacular, that culture. Okay. Like country music, for example. I do a lot of work in country music space. I love country music. Definitely not the music that I was raised with, but it's something that I really grew to love. And. But also, like the. For example, I do these charcoal drawings with cowboys with these quotes next to them that I started doing a long time ago in a studio down the street from here. And they just became like big. It's like if you go on Pinterest and search cowboy, they come up as like normal images in the country, Americana, western space. And to a question you ask her, like, they get ripped off all the time, constantly.

[Interviewer 1]

Does that bother you?

[Matt McCormick]

No, no. I'm not gonna point anyone out just

[Interviewer 1]

because artists are like. Or like, like we work speeches. Yes.

[Matt McCormick]

It's become part of the visual language to represent that world. And. And to be honest, if I step back from my ego and everything, I think it's cool. Like I always. It's impact, right? Yeah. Like, to me, Andy Warhol is like the greatest artist. He's like my biggest influence because every artist, I'm influenced not only, but he's a big influence on me. His work transcends him. You know, I talked about someone earlier, like his album cover for The Velvet Underground. Like, many people would know that Alan Cover wouldn't know him or the Goblin Undercover. They've never heard that. They've seen that before.

[Interviewer 1]

They've seen it on like an urban outfitter shirt.

[Matt McCormick]

Exactly. And that's cool. You know, I mean, I find that, I think that's cool.

[Interviewer 1]

A lot of people wouldn't really, but that's colonization, right?

[Matt McCormick]

Exactly. That's a version of it. And, and I find that like, if your work can like permeate, can escape the art world and enter the regular world, you're doing something.

[Interviewer 1]

But is that also part of why you want to move in a different direction once? Like a certain aesthetic or era of yours is like transcendent. You're like, all right, maybe it's time to work on something new, because my work here is done.

[Matt McCormick]

It's more that I don't ever want to get stuck as just that guy. Right. And also I've gotten to a place where with my work, like I do like my studio practice or what you would see at an art show or something like that. And that is kind of a sacred space where I kind of just keep pushing and trying to develop. Whereas, like, I'll do commercial projects and, or stuff with the brand that will stay more in that space because it makes more sense.

[Interviewer 1]

Is that like you playing the hits kind of?

[Matt McCormick]

Yeah. You know, it's funny, is like, I, I, yeah, I think that that's like a. Yeah, you gotta do that. Like, I remember I went to a John Mayer concert and, and like, I remember he did like four songs off the new album and then he said, said this in front of the whole crowd, which I thought was really funny. It's like, I have four ones for me and now one big stink one for you and then launch one for me. One for you.

[Interviewer 1]

Yeah.

[Matt McCormick]

But he was so upfront about it. But it's like, you know, as a, as a musician, even more than an artist, like, there are people that like, hey, egregious amounts of money to go take their girlfriend or boyfriend or whoever to go see that song, that one song. And like, if you kind of say you to them, then you're going to eventually live fall off. Right?

[Interviewer 1]

You got to play your body's water. You got to play body's water.

[Matt McCormick]

That.

[Interviewer 1]

Do you find that you have to play the game, like as an artist of attending openings, charming billionaires, convincing war criminals to park their money in a tax free asset?

[Matt McCormick]

Like, yes, you have to play that game. I mean, there's a, there's A Bob Jones song called like, you got to serve somebody. And it's all about, like, that's what it's all about. It's like, everyone has to serve someone. Whether it's, I have to serve my dogs, you know what I mean? They need to go on a walk or like, I gotta go shoes. Yeah, there's some level of that at all times. Obviously, you get, you have less and less of those at a certain point. Hopefully that's the goal. But yeah, I mean, you know, were

[Interviewer 1]

you, were you open to that at the beginning of your career to get to kind of learn how to play the game? Someone have to be like, matt, bro, you got it. Like, it's not. You can't be the tortured artist. You got to like, it's art and commerce.

[Matt McCormick]

No, that, that's something that I think I'd, that's one thing I'm pretty okay at. I, I understand. I, I, I, I was, I guess, fortunate to watch a bunch of friends do it before me and, and have a lot of good people around me to kind of, and just like, really study how that worked. And, you know, I don't go to a lot of openings. I don't really, I get a lot of social anxiety. And also, I can't really see the work in an opening. But, you know, I, I don't know. I'm here to play again. I mean, you know, you got to do.

[Interviewer 1]

It's the job as a bartender. You either were a people person or became a people person.

[Matt McCormick]

You learn how to talk to people. Yeah, and I love people. Like, I love having, like, an intimate conversation with a person I've never met before. You know, if that can happen. I'm doing it right now. Exactly. I mean, here we are.

[Interviewer 1]

How much of your art currently right now would you estimate is chilling in a freeport as a straight tax haven style?

[Matt McCormick]

It's funny because I exist in kind of a amorphous part of the art world. Like, my, I don't exist as much in the traditional, like, auctions and all that kind of stuff. Will that happen as versions of it happen? For sure. But something that is cool is that a lot of people that buy my work are just really too little of work. And it's not people like, ooh, I'm gonna buy that painting and it's gonna be worth financial industry. Yeah, like, there's definitely people that have done that and whatever, but the majority is really, like, I don't have a lot of stuff being resold because they really just want it at Least that's the experience.

[Interviewer 1]

So the ultimate compliment.

[Matt McCormick]

I would take it as a compliment. I mean, look, people in the art world have their opinions, but they're on fire right now. And not a good way. They would argue otherwise. But you know, everyone's like, artists are complaining about not making money to the last question. Like the oven game. There's new atlas to play the game, you know, and that's something that I really try to push my artist friends and gallery and whatever people. Like, there's a new way where everything's changing.

[Interviewer 1]

So that's interesting. So, like a lot of times, and we don't necessarily agree with this, but brands or even like big, small and big, you know, they'll gain in the fashion world. They'll gauge their success based on like the secondary resale market. Like, yo, our shits are collapsed on StockX for $2,000. Success in the art world, it's. Is it the opposite where you. The original buyer keeps it and isn't there to like move it on the secondary market?

[Matt McCormick]

No, there's definitely. Well, there's definitely like, oh, blank. Sold for blank at auction. Now boom, there's star. Okay. But there's also this weird calculation. If it sells for too much and then you never able to achieve that again, then you're screwed. You know, it's too high.

[Interviewer 1]

Yeah. It's not better to burn up and to fade away.

[Matt McCormick]

It's not. That's not something that I think works like in the. I don't think it translates into the fashion resale market the same way. Because you're dealing with like, objects rather than like, like person. Because, you know, art is really one on one most of the time. Whereas like, you get the Jordan, whatever. There's other ones, you know, but no, it's delicate dance. And I have a lot of friends and there's a lot of artists that exploded at a certain time. Their stuff sold tons of money at auction. First of all, they got none of that money. Yeah, right. You know what I mean? So that also, like, doesn't mean anything Split usually. What? Austin, there's no split.

[Interviewer 1]

No. What's the split with the gallery sale?

[Matt McCormick]

50. 50. Which is also brutal. Something I don't really agree with. I mean, look, I agree with it when it works. And the galleries I work with, I chose because, like, because, because like I. Because there's something there outside of the money. You know what I mean? Like, and that's how it worked historically, was you, you know, artists to work with a gallery, first of all, they didn't have Instagram. The gallery was the only way they were going to sell the work. For the most part. The gallery was going to give them a site for their studio. They were going to help pay for supplies. We're going to do all this stuff. And then it turned into, hey, I'm going to send a text message to give me 50%. And you're like, bro, used to be

[Interviewer 1]

a benefactor type situation.

[Matt McCormick]

Exactly. They used to invest, and then it became, I pay my phone bill, you know, so giving 50%. Right, right, right.

[Interviewer 1]

What now these days, like, are galleries themselves trying to become brands in their own right in the sense of, like, getting a big social following and having the right followers so that, like, is that attracted to artists where it's like, oh, shit, x gallery has 80,000 followers. More people are gonna see my shit if I'm in there. They throw fire events where, like, the Vivi are pulling up 100%.

[Matt McCormick]

100%. I mean, something sticky, Something I deal with consistently. And whatever. I wear this. It's like, you know, you meet someone new, maybe they're an honorable person, and then so do you show them.

[Interviewer 1]

Oh, right.

[Matt McCormick]

And then if you don't say the name they want to hear, they write you off. They start your head over your shoulder,

[Interviewer 1]

where's Jeff Koons at? Is he here?

[Matt McCormick]

Yeah. And to some degree, like, context is. Is everything. You know what I mean? To some degree, you know, but at the end of the day, like, I. That's just. It is what it is. You know what I mean? But it's also like, I remember the first store we ever sold the brand with was Dover Street Market. Like, that was, like, the only wholesale we ever did. And I remember people being like, well, you know, and shot on door street. But, like, it. It's not like that made us a better branch. My opinion, it was very cool to get the CO sign and went after the coastline, but, like, the only thing that matters, I think, is you just continue to go and either you keep going or you don't, and you burn out.

[Interviewer 1]

Who's done more to shape the contemporary art world? Instagram or Larry Gagosian?

[Matt McCormick]

Larry Gosian is a legend. I have a lot of respect for that guy. I think he's a savage way. I love. There's a great book called He's Someone

[Interviewer 1]

that deserves his 50% for sending authority Tests.

[Matt McCormick]

Well, he can do that, you know, not everyone can do that, you know, and really, it depends on the artist. Some artists do have better deals, and some artists have worse deals. But I Mean, he did a lot for the art market, for sure. At a certain level, I would say that Instagram has done a lot for the art world. We're all on it. Democracy. We all have to do it.

[Interviewer 1]

Has Instagram shaped, like, the type of art that is now created because it is created for the medium, or to, like, succeed on the medium of Instagram?

[Matt McCormick]

I'll answer this in two parts. One, my career was completely supercharged by Instagram. It was something that I found and I did early and I was active on. And it was like when I first got sober and I was kind of, like, pulled away wherever I was. Like, I could. I gave myself a ration. I was like, you're gonna make three drawings a day, post them on Instagram. It was like, part of my, like, early getting back into routine, and I had to do that. And so I continue to do that for quite a while. And then it just became a way that I could interact. Like, I think, you know, I have a lot of friends who are less about it, and, like, their followings are in New York or in la. And if I look at my phones through all the data, whatever, it's 5% New York, 5% LA. And then it's, like, way all over the place. And I love that. I love that. Like, I'll release a book and I'm shipping them to bumfuck nowhere or different countries or whatever because of Instagram. Like, that wasn't. Or even when I used to tattoo, it's like I would go tattoo in another city and the guys in the shop would be like, how are you so busy? I was like, Cause I just made the. This thing that everyone has my portfolio in their pocket. And we've all. We've all. You know, we've all. You guys obviously, like, in fashion, obviously. But, yeah, I don't know. It's huge. It's. It's changed everything, but it's kind of like one of these many things that just becomes a normal part of life. And you have a phone or you don't. You either have Instagram or you don't. Like, if it can't reach you, then how you accepted it. Yeah, you do. And, like, do I wish I could be off my phone and off Instagram? Absolutely. I think it's killing me slowly, but I've gotta be here now.

[Interviewer 1]

The Japanese version of Instagram.

[Matt McCormick]

Yeah. Yeah, exactly. Yeah.

[Interviewer 1]

Besides, like, galleries, you know, like, chasing or cultivating a following to get, like, the right artists. Besides artists, obviously, and tattoo artists, for sure. Kind of like building A following there so that they can just garner an audience. Like how are you finding that young, young artists are creating stuff that will pop on IG versus just like doing their work and using Instagram as a marketing tool.

[Matt McCormick]

Yes. I mean, but, but, but that was what I was gonna say. It's like just like every subsect of culture.

[Interviewer 1]

Certainly in fashion.

[Matt McCormick]

Well, that's what I'm saying. There's so many different worlds within the world. So there's like brands that, there's brands, you guys know that I've never heard of this. Brands that like. You've never heard of that. I've never heard of that, like have probably a huge following. And like there's musicians with all these things. And so there's definitely artists that are like crushing on Instagram and, and maybe making tons of money. And I've never been there. Right. And I exist in the bubbles that I exist in. I will say to the galleries point though, like there are galleries and this is one thing that exists where they're the owner of the gallery or the curator of the gallery, whatever. You respect their taste. So anything that shows that guy, like probably pretty good. Yeah. You know what I mean? And there's, there's definitely those and, and there's different versions of those, you know what I mean?

[Interviewer 1]

Are like stores.

[Matt McCormick]

They are stores. And I think that anyone who tries to deny that there's a commerce element to the art world is out of their mind. Yeah. It's crazy.

[Interviewer 1]

No, no, shoot to them. Yeah. No. Matt, speaking of speaking of giant artists that maybe like, you know, people haven't heard of. I, I mentioned this personal Lawrence the other day. People.

[Matt McCormick]

Yeah, I was just NFT guy, huge and had a massive exposure, made small money.

[Interviewer 1]

Have you ever met people?

[Matt McCormick]

I've never met people. He had another little moment like art, one of the artists last year where he created this like weird animatronic like all the billionaires.

[Interviewer 1]

Oh yeah.

[Matt McCormick]

So he's had a second follow up hit, you know, another banger. The thing about the people moment. This is what I'll say with the NFT things like. Because we all know that was all ridiculous. Yeah. What was really good about it is there was a whole subsect of art that was really pushed by the subset of DeviantArt where all these people making art digitally and they never had their moment and that was kind of their moment, you know what I mean? So like that's cool and like great. You know, that's over here.

[Interviewer 1]

Did you ever edit any of your work?

[Matt McCormick]

Yeah, I did not. Oh, I couldn't figure out to do it. I actually. Someone convinced me early on to try and make one, and then someone tried to buy it, and, like, I was just like, I don't want to deal with it.

[Interviewer 1]

Honestly, by you being a boomer and not figuring it out, you actually, like, look better now. For you. Yeah, I was. I fleeced a bunch of people for millions of crypto. And I did a cowboy monkey.

[Matt McCormick]

There was. There was a. Which is a pretty decent art Instagram. I'll. I'll save them from outing them, but I was one. I followed. And during that time, they were all about it. They were like, this is the biggest thing ever. And then it crashed and they erased everything. And I was like, you, sir, are whatever.

[Interviewer 1]

You saw it.

[Matt McCormick]

You saw it.

[Interviewer 1]

I saw it.

[Matt McCormick]

People, don't forget you have good taste in. In non. NFT art, but you are really trying to cool.

[Interviewer 1]

It's the madness of crowd. The crowd. Mob mentality.

[Matt McCormick]

Which is fine. We all do it. But, like.

[Interviewer 1]

But that was.

[Matt McCormick]

Yeah.

[Interviewer 1]

What did. As an artist, you were like.

[Matt McCormick]

Were you.

[Interviewer 1]

Were you, like, thinking, this is cool in the moment or this is the worst thing ever seen? The monkey.

[Matt McCormick]

The ap.

[Interviewer 1]

Born ape. Yeah, born.

[Matt McCormick]

I mean, dude, so much. Our culture is so terrible.

[Interviewer 1]

Yeah, that was. That was a new low.

[Matt McCormick]

Yeah, but my thing is, like, I don't know, there's plenty of art that I like that you guys, people would look at being. That is fucking stupid. Why do you like that?

[Interviewer 1]

Yeah, but this is tied up in, like, crypto. And it was like.

[Matt McCormick]

Well, but, yeah, I mean, hustle. Hustle culture is pretty gross. Yeah. All over the place. Like, I'm all for capitalism, making money and all that, but, like, it's also, like, relaxed, you know? And so, like, there's a lot of hype around it. That was crazy. Yeah, but everything was crazy then. I mean, it was a wild time. Yeah, like, early pandemic in that kind of moment was really nuts.

[Interviewer 1]

Look, if Miami's ever having a moment as the cultural cap of the world, you know, something's off. That's the first problem.

[Matt McCormick]

Yeah.

[Interviewer 1]

Do you think AI will ever have a respectful place in the art world?

[Matt McCormick]

Yeah, I think AI is a tool. I'm not scared of AI. I use it every day. I don't like paintings off it for practice. I use it for. I like, talk to it. You know what I mean? Like, I. I use it for. For example, I'll do that. I put in, like, the. The layout and gallery, and I was like, I'm trying to figure out like the wall and like how I can lay things out properly on these walls and what size these things. Because it had. You can run halfway.

[Interviewer 1]

You're not like computer Jarvis, generate cowboy smoking cigarette.

[Matt McCormick]

Well, because I've worked off a reference photo. I don't know and I hope people think this, but like I don't just make things out of my head. Like I find a photo and then I work from that. I adjust it. So what it has made it easy is I can take a photo and be like, hey, can you tweak this a little bit so I can get the proportions correct something? So in that sense it's great. But I'm not. I'm not using the images directly. I'll just be like proportional thing. But I don't judge anyone. Make this whatever you want to do. There was a time when, you know, people didn't use typewriters and they just wrote, didn't use Internet channel. You know, I was just someone the other day and they're like, yeah, I was hiring some of the 90s and they said they didn't use computers. So they get hired and saying you don't use AI. I know it's kind of like that. Like either use it and continue or get left on it. Right, right, right.

[Ad Host]

What about like, so you're running out of closet space. The good news, you don't need to stop shopping. You just need to start selling with the RealReal. The RealReal is the world's largest and most trusted resource for authenticated luxury resale. Whether it's that mini bag that can't even fit your phone or those boots you never fully broke in, the RealReal handles everything from photography and copywriting to shipping and pricing. So you can just sit back, get paid, and make room for things that actually feel like you. And with 10,000 plus new arrivals every single day from top designers like Prada, Celine, Louis Vuitton and Louisville, offer up to 90% off retail. You're bound to find something perfectly on brand to fill that extra closet space with. Plus, this may only you can get an extra $200 to shop. When you sell for the first time, make room for what feels like you go to therealrail.com to start selling and get your extra $200 to keep [e-mail] that's therealrail.com terms apply. Ready or not. Summer is coming and Wayfair's Memorial Day clearance is on now.

[Matt McCormick]

Right now through May 25th, get up

[Ad Host]

to 70% off everything home at Wayfair. Plus score amazing doorbuster deals. All sail long and surprise flash deals on Memorial Day. We're talking thousands of products at every style and budget. Now is the time to save big on must haves for your patio, backyard and beyond. These savings won't last, so don't wait. Shop Wayfair's Memorial Day clearance now through May 25th.

[Matt McCormick]

Wayfair Every style, every home.

[Interviewer 1]

Completely AI generated art. Is that. Do you think that will ever replace for or we just really talk about another version of the Monkees.

[Matt McCormick]

I've seen like AI generated shows that, you know, look, okay. I mean the one that like I could never do would be like a generated music. Okay. Movies too, right Andy? Or yeah, in movies. Yeah. Yeah. I mean there's a lot I can never do but like the fake. I'm more of a music guy in movies.

[Interviewer 1]

The fake anime Drake sounded pretty good.

[Matt McCormick]

Yeah. Yeah. We're low round culture. It's great. Yeah. Our memes and all that kind of stuff. Although like a fake AI video versus a real one. Right. You know when those started popping up. But yeah, for sure. For low brow slot. Yeah.

[Interviewer 1]

So if we keep seeing cowboy smoking with six fingers on his hands, we know that's not a map of former Deluge vault. Do you. Do you find any value in slot?

[Matt McCormick]

I. I hate to write things off, but I don't know. I think we're getting really dumb. So. Yeah, I think stuff is. Is adding to that. Like this AI. I know there are AI podcasts. I know they exist. But like this would be terrible if none of us were real. What makes this experience is people talking to people. Right. But I know people will make like I. I read an argument that's actually kind of great. This guy would take all of this like news and information that he had to have and he had it turned into a podcast by AI so you could listen to it on Strive before you went to work. And like I've heard of like AI generated podcasts. Like that sounds horrible.

[Interviewer 1]

Have you seen the AI? This is more of a critique of AI but a guy ran four different platforms, Gemini X, whatever, Aix, ChatGPT and Claude. And they each made a radio station and they based on their different like programming, they all kind of created a different product where one of them is like, you know, talk about just like a doomer. It's like the end of the world. Like we're all going to fucking die. Another one is like shouting out ice or something. Yeah. Now Grox talking about people. What if I know that you're not, like, necessarily firmly placed in, like, the standard art industry, but whether it is, like, where you have kind of the path that you forged for yourself or the standard industry that a lot of people know that keep the art world going. What's the most frustrating thing about the art industry right now for you?

[Matt McCormick]

The pretension. Yeah.

[Interviewer 1]

Is that ever going to change? Right.

[Matt McCormick]

You see it changing in certain ways. Like, there was a time where doing projects outside of the art world was so frowned upon. And that was something. I just said that too early on, because I. The more of that stuff I do, the more freedom I have with VR that I want to make. Because if I'm worried about paying my bills all the time, I'm just gonna play the hits until they suck. And so that's one reason to do that. Another reason is to.

[Interviewer 1]

You're talking like a jm

[Matt McCormick]

Everything. Yeah. That was so frowned upon.

[Interviewer 1]

Yeah.

[Matt McCormick]

And so that's one thing in the art world that I don't really like.

[Interviewer 1]

Did that. Did that. Did people try to devalue your.

[Matt McCormick]

Your true art?

[Interviewer 1]

Because, like, oh, he's doing this commercial.

[Matt McCormick]

I sure. I'm sure. You know, guess what? They've done that to plenty of artists.

[Interviewer 1]

Guess what? It didn't work.

[Matt McCormick]

Yeah.

[Interviewer 1]

Guess what? They're all fine. They'll feel all broke now.

[Matt McCormick]

Yeah, well, you know, whatever. I'll. I'll let you guys say it. But, like, the. The. The thing is, it's like, I also, like, trying to go by a nothing matters kind of thing, because it really doesn't, because there's always going to be someone hating no matter every great artist. And I'm not saying I'm a great artist, but every, like, film event, Picasso, blah, blah, blah, blah, like, there's someone that's like, they're whack. Yeah. And you're like, they call Van Gogh insane. You know what I mean? Yeah. It's like. It's like everyone, like Annie Warhol was completely hated, thought of his crap for a long time, and now his market, Basquiat, like, the top 15% of the art market in the auctions every single year, you know? And it's like, you're never going to please everybody.

[Interviewer 1]

So does it matter to you, like, being popular, accepted, like, in your lifetime? Because that's also what happens with artists, too.

[Matt McCormick]

Right.

[Interviewer 1]

All the stuff you're talking about happens after they're gone.

[Matt McCormick]

So I just want to add nicely.

[Interviewer 1]

Okay.

[Matt McCormick]

You know, I want to. I want to make art, and I want to, like, if. If anything, great Happens with my arm after I'm dead. That's a chair on top. But I won't be here to enjoy. That's true. What the fuck matters, you know what I mean? If I can have the experience of being an artist and getting to work myself and look, I get to live my dream. I'm like super blessed, all that stuff. But like. Yeah, I don't know, the tortured artist thing, like lived in a, you know, a shack in filth and. But then was discovered when I died. That doesn't really. True. Sorry.

[Interviewer 1]

How's your life right now? It's good.

[Matt McCormick]

It's great. I love my life, I'm happy. But that's also has nothing to do with any of the material stuff. It's that I just work really hard and try and not be a crazy one.

[Interviewer 1]

What's the biggest misconception people might have about the art industry? I mean, like you're talking to two outsiders right now. Like we obviously.

[Matt McCormick]

Which I love. Thank you. I. I think it's important that the walls of the pretension get broken down because it's bullshit. It's something. When I moved here, I felt so outside of it. As someone that grew up with two artist parents and made art and considered myself the art kid. I moved here and was like, I get in conversations I wouldn't know everything. And then everyone made me feel stupid and I hated that. It was the worst feeling ever. And now? Yeah. I've spent the last 20 years studying my ass off and learning as much as I can, becoming an active participant. But I never want to make someone feel like they can't do it.

[Interviewer 1]

Like lesser.

[Matt McCormick]

Yeah, yeah. It's stupid. You want people to engage or to be afraid.

[Interviewer 1]

You're not a gatekeeper. You want your walk through the gate.

[Matt McCormick]

It's sorry when I have some other artist friends all the time because I have one friend who's like gatekeeping is really important and sure, in some ways. But also another. Like teach them so that they can learn the writing.

[Interviewer 1]

Each one.

[Matt McCormick]

Teach one. Yeah.

[Interviewer 1]

So what's the biggest misconception?

[Matt McCormick]

About what part? Like about the art world? Yeah, I mean, well, you know, it's. I mean, look, like I said, it's like everything. There's like, it's like, you know, like it's like any community where there's like good people and then there's bad people and there's black people and there's nice people and so ice things. Like I think that there is like a lot of beauty in it, but there's also A lot of negativity in it and it's carony. But the misconception, I don't know, it's like, it's like saying, what's the misconception with like, Christianity? It's like that God is real. I would say that would be number one. Exactly. Okay, you got me there. But like, you know, it's like, it's like, you know, it's like, it's like any group, you know, like, there's horrible, preachy religious fanatics and there's good people and like, I think that like, a lot of Yarwell gets boxed into this, like, you know, meme you'll see on like, movies and TV shows with like snobs in galleries. And there's like, people that are amazing making fun that would like, go chug a beer with you and rip around on a jet skis. And then there's someone that's like, you know, like, gonna make you feel terrible at yourself.

[Interviewer 1]

Sounds like fashion too. That's the fashion.

[Matt McCormick]

Used to say normal people in fashion. Yes.

[Interviewer 1]

Sounds like everything.

[Matt McCormick]

Sounds like it is everything. I was talking to a director friend about this years ago. We were like comparing war stories. Was like, oh, that's all movie industry.

[Interviewer 1]

Art industry people make you feel like shit to make themselves feel better.

[Matt McCormick]

What the fuck? And they also feel shit. Yeah. Yeah.

[Interviewer 1]

People hurt people.

[Matt McCormick]

Yeah, it's a lot of hurt people. Yeah.

[Interviewer 1]

Is there. If you had to identify one component of the art world that you would say are the biggest frauds, would it be, is it the gallerists? Is it the dealers? Is it the artists themselves?

[Matt McCormick]

I mean, I don't want to make a lot of enemies. I'm trying to say same thing. Self paintings here. But, but. But the real thing is like, that the art world, one of the. I think it's actually amazing is that, you know, like the stock market, unlike stock market. Somebody didn't like the stock market. It's much more like the. The poly market, Kalshi, kind of like predictive markets. It's totally rigged. And. And that's fine. I'm cool with it. Like, get crazy. I think it's awesome. Tax evasion through your paintings.

[Interviewer 1]

Right.

[Matt McCormick]

Reports.

[Interviewer 1]

You support that?

[Matt McCormick]

Like, I don't know. I think, I think keep it the wild West. Okay. You know what I mean? Like, they're always. I'm always hoping for like a cool art movie, and it's pretty much impossible because it's really important to anyone outside of it. But there was an art fair. Well, that article that just came out Of New York magazine a couple weeks ago about that one dealer that was like bartering crazy. I suggest everyone go read that. Like that has movie written all over. It's crazy. So you know that guy? Yeah, no, he's way past my. But a good friend of mine, his parents were friends though. He was like a very legit dealer and was also a psychopathic murderer, which is cool. So, you know, that would be cool movie. So the passion came from.

[Interviewer 1]

Are you with Alec Monopoly?

[Matt McCormick]

All right, look, I love it. I think it's great. I think it's awesome. No, no, no. I just said, look, we know you're

[Interviewer 1]

super positive in California.

[Matt McCormick]

No, no, no, this is my thing. This is my thing. It's like, I, I. Look, am I gonna buy his work and hang out my house? Not necessarily. But I also, like, that's for somebody. You know what I mean? Like the same guy that wants to drive the neon Lamborghini in Miami. Like, would it be cool if that guy had like a Robert Gober sculpture in his. Where I was like, yeah, that'd be a mind fuck. But like, I don't think that's gonna happen. And like, you know, there's a. It's just like, I don't eat McDonald's, but do I think McDonald's needs to be gone?

[Interviewer 1]

No.

[Matt McCormick]

Right. You know what I mean? Like, it's high, low, like that fills a void for somebody. And if that gets someone to the next place. Right. That's good.

[Interviewer 1]

Or it keeps them like, it's like, oh, you're Monopoly guy. Okay, cool. Stay over there.

[Matt McCormick]

Yeah, I mean, I'm not gonna put. I don't want to put cause in the same conversation as Alec Monopoly, but he's a person who, like a lot of people in the art world are snobby about, and I think they're fucking wax about being like that. Because one, he's an incredible collector. He supports a lot of artists that he has good work. Brian Donnelly has good taste, incredible taste, super nice guy, great dude. But also the amount of people that have come to the art world through him. True. And then started learning about art. Like, that's, that's really important. And so anyone who hates on him can go themselves. Damn.

[Interviewer 1]

What is go. What does Matt McCormick think of Matt?

[Matt McCormick]

I mean, he's also great. I know I sound like a tumor positive. I just. This is like, look, I'll talk shit like anyone. You know what I mean? Yeah. But I don't need any enemies. Like, I. Because I know there's people that don't talk shit on me, and I don't want to feed that fire. But, like, anyone who's gonna say that he hasn't put in his work, you know what I mean, is tripping and, you know, once again, is it for me? No, not necessarily. But there's also a lot of things that I like that I wouldn't hang in my house either. It makes you, like, living with an artwork and appreciating artwork are two different things, you know? And, like, I'm sure with clothing, like, there's plenty of clothes, you're like, that's sick. Never going to wear that. Not for me.

[Interviewer 1]

Right.

[Matt McCormick]

I do that all the time. I'll see a nice colorful shirt. Great. Yeah, exactly. So there's a lot of that. And my Banks is definitely that. Like, you know what I mean? And also with a lot of these artists, you can find, like, one that speaks to you more than another.

[Interviewer 1]

What about celebrities that decide one day they just want to make art, and they're, like, kind of entitled or feel entitled. They're like, well, I made it as a actor or former president. Now I'm, of course, going to kill the art world, like Adrien Brody or George W. Bush.

[Matt McCormick]

So my main point of that is, like, something I like about the music world more, is, like, if any of those people I just mentioned or any person who's famous in one one place comes into music and tries to make a song, if it sucks, no one likes it. You know what I mean? And music is, like, more democratic or clean in that way. Whereas, like, someone will be famous and they'll, like, make paintings and it's terrible, yet they'll get a show at a really good gallery.

[Interviewer 1]

Brody, literally.

[Matt McCormick]

Yeah. And, like, look, if someone likes that stuff, Rock and roll. Someone else was doing that for him. Like, well, Alec Knoppy are the other guy that made the Banksy Document documentary. Like, he really did that.

[Interviewer 1]

Oh, Mr. Brainwash. Mr. Brainwash, yes.

[Matt McCormick]

So it's very Mr. Brainwashed and whatever. Art is all derivative and all that kind of stuff. But, like, I don't know. Like I said, like, it's. I don't feel something. I mean, you're saying about the art world that to go back, that actually I didn't think about very competitive in a way that is, like, really gross to me. Like, I am not in competition with any other artists. I've had people tell me that I should be in competition with lrs, but I think that's like Wes Lane, for example. Wes is a friend of mine. Love Wes. He was highly Wes actually to Wes credit. He sparked the cowboy stuff I made. I had all these paintings that was called my story paintings that he was asked me to be in a group show. I sent him all of these and I sent one cowboy drawing that I had done and he like ignored all these big paintings and this little cowboy drawing. He was like, what is? What is? I love this. And that was actually what kind of like got me going down that road. So shout out Wes. But no, I'm not in competition with Wes. Wes is doing great. Like he's doing his thing and like that's the thing. It's like I'm in competition with me, you know what I mean? And that's thing I hate about the art world. I hate it that they want to pit artists against each other and kind of like, oh, this person sells more than this person.

[Interviewer 1]

Like sounds like a rap game, bro.

[Matt McCormick]

It's all the.

[Interviewer 1]

When it slowly comes in, it's so competitive, right? And there's like such limited space and bandwidth and attention span. Like when it slowly comes in with their big swinging dick and they're like, oh, now I get to be in the best. The galleries want the best. Galleries want them because they have a built in machine. It's like that squeezes out artists that have put in their 10,000 hours.

[Matt McCormick]

Well then they didn't put enough hours. They make sucks, you know what I mean? At the end of the day, like you're making. Yes. Is art like a sacred thing to me and all that for sure. But you're also, let's be real, you're trying to sell to someone who has money to buy it. And so if they don't want to buy it, it's just like food in a sense. Like. Yeah, there's an artistic beauty to making a great meal. But like if it tastes like shit or even if it does taste like shit, but it tastes like shit to the person you're serving it to. Right. It doesn't mean it's bad, it just means that that person doesn't like it. You found your audience.

[Interviewer 1]

Yeah.

[Matt McCormick]

You haven't found your audience.

[Interviewer 1]

What was the last piece of art that you bought for yourself?

[Matt McCormick]

The last piece of art that I bought for myself.

[Interviewer 1]

And are you like a collector? Are you?

[Matt McCormick]

I'm a big, I'm a collector in early stages. I'm a huge book collector. That was like my gateway drug as I can't afford cocaine. We're going back that far as probably more with cigarettes when I was like five.

[Interviewer 1]

Okay, you're five years old, bro, Still

[Matt McCormick]

a pack from friends and like, the bushes behind. I don't think we're even, like, inhaling.

[Interviewer 1]

But books brought you to art.

[Matt McCormick]

They. Books were. As a. I can't afford most of the art that I would love to have so I could sell ships. Yeah, yeah, exactly.

[Interviewer 1]

Cowboys Matt.

[Matt McCormick]

I bought the last piece of art I bought. I bought a drawing from my friend Banks, Violet, who's also an artist that I really look up to and admire and was someone. When I moved to New York and was trying to discover my world of art, I discovered an artist named Rachel Prince, who was the last before that.

[Interviewer 1]

And

[Matt McCormick]

Banks and an artist next to you. There's a bunch of others, but those three Banks.

[Interviewer 1]

Not Banksy.

[Matt McCormick]

No, no. Banks. BM ks, Violet. He has a show up in Brooklyn right now. He's an incredible artist. But these were three artists that. What they were making. I was like, oh, there's a place for what I'm interested in, in this. Like, I come from punk subcultures, these kinds of things. Like Banks covered in tattoos, and he was making work that talks about a lot of things, including black metal and these kinds of things. And, yeah, he was an artist that really inspired me at that time. And still. So we've become friends over the last couple of years. And yeah, I bought a drawing from him of a work. It was. It's related to a work that was, like, super. Just like, one of my favorite things ever made. He made a drawing. It was a sculpture, but he made a drawing that was connected to it. So that was.

[Interviewer 1]

Do you have a dream piece of art that you want to hang in the crib one day that money's no object. If money's no object, what's the one thing that you would. Your grail?

[Matt McCormick]

I mean, there's so many, you know, I mean, a mayonnaise would be, like, incredible. Like, I don't know. It's one of those things where you're like, I got to answer to the right one. Like, I have a carbagio. You know, Get a pirate hoodie. Yeah, I will say that. Like, the. The one where I go be really happy in my life because he's. Another one of those artists is Steven Prino. Just because, like, when I discovered his work, you know, he was like this punk rocker guy that worked in a garage in Brooklyn. He died in a motorcycle accident on New Year's Eve, 2005. Like, he. He didn't sell in his life. And then right after he died, he goes, you took him on It'd be the last thing. And they're very expensive.

[Interviewer 1]

But that's cold blooded. No, that's.

[Matt McCormick]

Well, that's what the family wanted. He got a lot of recognition. I mean, like he's, you know, in the history books probably a little bit more because that. But his work and Katie Nolan, love

[Interviewer 1]

one day.

[Matt McCormick]

One day, I hear. Can I talk about what happened?

[Interviewer 1]

Let's buy those subscribers, sell out those JM glasses.

[Matt McCormick]

Yeah, right, exactly.

[Interviewer 1]

Get round two, round three going. We've talked about masculinity and kind of like the archetype of the American male and both, you know, contemporary and mythological. What's the least manly thing about you? You're covered in tattoos. You got a deep voice, got a table.

[Matt McCormick]

I got a skincare routine.

[Interviewer 1]

Yeah, what is it?

[Matt McCormick]

It's. I mean, I just have like a nice, you know, like,

[Interviewer 1]

changed you serum.

[Matt McCormick]

I have a nice serum that I use. I have like a nice little. I mean my. My significant other is very like deep in that space. She's always throwing stuff me. But I have a couple that I like right now. It's like I travel these easy ones. It's like a Kiehl serum. And then there's like a. This one I found in Paris that I like. But there was like another. The Vargas around Vargas. And I really like that stuff. I don't know what is the. I mean, there's plenty. There's plenty of pause moments in my life all the time. You know what I mean?

[Interviewer 1]

Multitudes, folks. What's the most la ass thing about you where you're like. You look up, you're like. I mean, another macho.

[Matt McCormick]

My diet. No, I'm a coffee guy. Like, and actually I've become less whack. But now I'm like black coffee, where it was like I did lattes forever, never matcha. But I eat definitely. Like. Like I am a vegetarian. I am now. I'm on like this kind of health journey. I'm always on some version of a health journey. I'll take a lot of supplements. Okay.

[Interviewer 1]

How are you so.

[Matt McCormick]

I mean, I'm getting close to 40, so like I'm trying to do all that.

[Interviewer 1]

How do you say so, like built

[Matt McCormick]

well, I'm becoming looks maxer. I have dabbled, but I'm really scared of needles, which obviously it's not. There's a different I. The puncturing thing scares the out of me. So you meant for your drug days? Yeah, I never. I never crossed that barrier, which was really a good thing. But. No, I think, I mean, all the protein, creatine, all that.

[Interviewer 1]

Yeah.

[Matt McCormick]

I'm working out every day. Take a lot of hikes. To me that's more like Northern California where I'm from.

[Interviewer 1]

Yeah.

[Matt McCormick]

Yeah. I surf. That's also comes from where I'm from. Yeah.

[Interviewer 1]

What do you think of kind of swinging over to the fashion side of it, Men's side of it. What do you think of the, the trend? Maybe we're on the tail end of it or if we're not, maybe it's Chris a little bit. But guys dressing up in western wear stolen valor. You know, you see guys like in Bushwick in the cowboy boots and the back yoke and the big western belts, you know, I mean vintage Levi, stealing valorant.

[Matt McCormick]

So anyone who tries to act like they're not playing some kind of costume, where it's kind of costume at some point in their life, I. I know I'm going to come off as like too nice and friendly for everyone but

[Interviewer 1]

like, but this is kind of what your art's about.

[Matt McCormick]

Yeah. And so it gives me stuff like. I don't know, I think like I'm someone who's gone through many phases and, and you know like I had a troll up face. Like heavy face, yo. Gets cancelled.

[Interviewer 1]

Like how you got any laughing? Some jets.

[Matt McCormick]

My entire body is covered in that kind. And that was when I was tattooing. I was kind of tattooing. I did and I, I mean

[Interviewer 1]

the

[Matt McCormick]

Bor's office was in my house.

[Interviewer 1]

Okay.

[Matt McCormick]

Damn. So my lot sneakers was, was, was. It was my bedroom, my tattoo studio, born and raised office.

[Interviewer 1]

One room. Which, which office? The one that. In the tall building that overlook the park.

[Matt McCormick]

Yeah. So when we live upstairs, which stands,

[Interviewer 1]

I was there with the, the sheet of acid taped to the wall or tactical.

[Matt McCormick]

Yeah. That was my house.

[Interviewer 1]

And they were like, do you want a lick? And I was like, no.

[Matt McCormick]

Okay. Yes. That was your house. My dad co signed that lot. Wow. Yeah. I hate your house before. Yeah, yeah. So that, that comes from like earlier in my child just growing up in California, being accepted, low rider culture, tattoos and all that kind of stuff got way deeper when I was hanging out with DXR every day.

[Interviewer 1]

You know, here's an easy target for you. Maybe you want to hit this one.

[Matt McCormick]

Bullseye.

[Interviewer 1]

What do you think of dudes who mount skate decks on their wall as art we with that Matt?

[Matt McCormick]

I mean it's not good design.

[Interviewer 1]

Okay.

[Matt McCormick]

I'll say that. I think a skateboard, just skateboard is supposed to be us on the streets. They're on a Ramp or where skateboards should be. Just like graffiti should be on the streets. Graffiti in galleries is the same thing, you know? Like, the graffiti that I like is destructive and a dredge on society. I think that's the best kind of graffiti. But I think things that exist where they're supposed to be is great. A cowboy to go back and Dan, a cowboy in Brooklyn. Like, I don't know, it's fine. You know what I mean? Like, if you want to look like you're wearing a costume every day, that's kind of your own problem.

[Interviewer 1]

We all wear costumes every day.

[Matt McCormick]

Exactly. I'm wearing a costume right now. You know, is there.

[Interviewer 1]

Is there a trend in the art world that you wish you think is a little saturated? Like, maybe it's like neon signs or, you know.

[Matt McCormick]

Well, if you go to any art fair, I mean, where's free is happening right now? Yeah. If you go to any of the fairs right now, I'm sure there's a line in front of a mirror or a neon sign.

[Interviewer 1]

It's an Instagrammable moment.

[Matt McCormick]

Yeah. But, like, I don't know. The art world is full of trends. I mean, and not that they're necessarily bad, but, like, it. Something will start working. I mean, we just made it through, like, this colorful figurative barrage for several years. Yeah. And that's kind of waning out. There was, like, a moment where it became a little more muted, and now it's going into another thing, and that's just what happens. And there's people that are really digging private moments. They never hear about them again.

[Interviewer 1]

Do you think we're maybe due for the. Again this pendulum swinging back away from my. The Instagram stuff, the bright pops of color into more like, art that can't necessarily be captured by a phone, like performance art or. I mean, the shit that's causing stir now is. Is that the Vance Biennale, like, the person that's swimming in people's actual piss and. Well, not shit, but, like, that type of art.

[Matt McCormick]

I think, because we're in a moment where a lot of. They say it's ending, but I think it's ending more at the top end, it's not down at the bottom. We're in a time where I say that I'm not gonna get political, but the wealth gal's insane. But what it does for the art.

[Interviewer 1]

Whoa, whoa.

[Matt McCormick]

Too close. But, like, in the art world, or in really just, like, culture in general, between music and art, like, that, I think spawns a lot of really great art and a lot of really great Music because people are kind of like, well, for. And I'm not gonna make money anyway, so I might as well make what I want.

[Interviewer 1]

Yeah.

[Matt McCormick]

And that's where good things I think happen. Also because of the political environment that we're in, you get a lot of like pushback against the system. And that creates a lot of good art. And so a lot. A lot of the great art. So I think we're in a time that would be really fertile. But you know what I mean? Like, I don't know. Time is the really. The. The real teller of these things. A lot of great art. No one gave a shit about point zero. And then 20 years

[Interviewer 1]

just got to call Larry, get to co.

[Matt McCormick]

I mean, it would be someone else after that kind of doesn't give a. Yeah, that's true.

[Interviewer 1]

Never mind. Sleeps with 20 year olds in East Hampton crib. Have you been to the East Hampton crib?

[Matt McCormick]

I have not been. I've only been out there.

[Interviewer 1]

Diddy party.

[Matt McCormick]

Weirdly, have never spent time out there.

[Interviewer 1]

Sl Party.

[Matt McCormick]

Summer Bear.

[Interviewer 1]

What do you listen to when you work in the studio? I know you're a big music guy, obviously.

[Matt McCormick]

Guy. I mean, it really depends. I go. I go through like a. Like a. An arc over the day. And so in the beginning it's like really like jazz and metal stuff, which makes sense, obviously. And probably like the drive home. I'm listening to like aggressive death metal.

[Interviewer 1]

Angry.

[Matt McCormick]

Yeah. Well. So I just kind of have to keep the energy going. And then I get home, then it shuts back off. I'm a huge Deadhead and so there's a lot of that.

[Interviewer 1]

What's your favorite take?

[Matt McCormick]

My favorite show right now is probably Hartford, Connecticut. 77 Bay 28th or 1st or Atlanta on the 19th. Really very soon.

[Interviewer 1]

Any Deadheads listening can let us know if that's valid or not.

[Matt McCormick]

I have no. They're both good. They're both good. But it's one of the things that you like because.

[Interviewer 1]

But did you see Denco many times.

[Matt McCormick]

Love Denco. Love Sean. Love all of them. I was at the last shows. I was raised in Marin county and Griffith. That's where they're from. Okay. It's like my mom went into labor with me, like at a show. No, dude.

[Interviewer 1]

Did he hit a popper and was

[Matt McCormick]

like, oh, fuck no. My dad did this backdrop that is behind a very famous photo of Dylan and them.

[Interviewer 1]

Oh my.

[Matt McCormick]

So part of it with the deal, he said, hey, can I get back to. Depends on. I want to meet Dylan, who was a painter, is a fan yeah, he's an artist, a great artist. I say this one time he's my favorite American artist across all genres. But my dad wanted to meet Dylan so they went to the show. My mom was nine months pregnant. I was supposed to be born on St. Patrick's Day. They went to the show, wanted to come out and party. So they.

[Interviewer 1]

Did you meet Dylan or did you ruin.

[Matt McCormick]

Did meet Dylan. He stayed his room. Jerry stayed in his room. But Mickey came up and rubbed my mom's belly. Oh.

[Interviewer 1]

And that's.

[Matt McCormick]

Yeah.

[Interviewer 1]

Is that what induced the ladies.

[Matt McCormick]

Might have been. It might have been. There was. I listened to the show a bunch of times because you can listen online. It's a, it's a. Jerry was a little.

[Interviewer 1]

Some of the songs, I mean that's the last. Okay.

[Matt McCormick]

Yeah.

[Interviewer 1]

That's the last thing you heard before you entered the world.

[Matt McCormick]

Exactly. My dad always like to say it was the first time they played Touch of Gray which I haven't tattoo for somewhere I don't think it was.

[Interviewer 1]

But every silver lining's got a touch, a touch. There you go.

[Matt McCormick]

Which was their only number one hit. Oh damn. But I don't believe it for sure.

[Interviewer 1]

Drake Mog. Yeah. Shark Mog. Who's more. Who's more fun to hang out with, artists or musicians? And you got to separate them. You can't say musicians. Yeah, yeah.

[Matt McCormick]

I'm friends with more musicians but I am. I have some really co stars friends but like I, I, yeah, I think I position. It's more that like artists are really protective of their space and time. I don't know. Musicians are a little weak and like I don't know. One of my close. Two of my closest friends, one of them. I had a family when we were in high school and the other one is like still going to musician school.

[Interviewer 1]

Just by logic, when you were. You had a moment in the music industry when you're the road manager for Odd Future. What were like the crazy shenanigans of theirs that you had to smooth over?

[Matt McCormick]

I mean they were kids, you know, this was so I did, I did the last Odd Future tour. I did Tyler's first tour and I did like a bunch of other little ones. But the thing was really they were just like crazy kids, you know. Babysitting, right? Yeah, a lot of babysitting. I mean that's what it is. That's what tour managing is. I glad I'm not doing it anymore. But I think people also had an idea of them that was not actually what it was like. Like Tyler was Really regimented and controlled. Like, we'd be on tour and he'd be like, I have to spend an hour drawing in the morning. I just. He'd get off stage and he'd go directly to his room to work out music. It was just when he was in front of people that he would put on performance. You know what I mean? But, like. I mean, the rest of everyone, it was like, partying and fun or whatever. But to be honest, that is why my life came crashing. I was the crazy one.

[Interviewer 1]

Oh, yeah. They were checking up on you.

[Matt McCormick]

You needed somewhere. I remember we were in San Antonio. I was blackout. They were all. And I remember Tyler in my blackout set. I remember Tyler being. Oh, this is what being drunk is like. And that was one of those moments where I, like, the light came on. I was like, oh, he should probably not be the same.

[Interviewer 1]

And that's why Tyler never really. Yeah.

[Matt McCormick]

Not a big trigger. So even if I didn't before that.

[Interviewer 1]

But honestly, you did the world a great service by getting so fucked up

[Matt McCormick]

in front of Tyler.

[Interviewer 1]

The creator scared him straight. Wow.

[Matt McCormick]

He was already on that wave for a while before I was around. But, I mean, there was that path on Fairfax at that time. There was a lot of people that were trash bags like myself. Right.

[Interviewer 1]

I was like. Like peak LA hypebeast era.

[Matt McCormick]

Yeah. Like, I ended up there in the. You know that at that moment. And, like, I worked on Fairfax, but work was a stretch. I went to Kevin's show and I went.

[Interviewer 1]

There was Frank Ocean in the mix.

[Matt McCormick]

Frank was around, but Frank is, you know who he is. And Frank was, like, really more on his way. I mean, it was more when you expect, like, Taco and, you know, Travis and everyone like that.

[Interviewer 1]

But what's literally like, all right, kids, like, get on the bus. We got gushers time to go.

[Matt McCormick]

I mean.

[Interviewer 1]

Yes.

[Matt McCormick]

Yeah. In my defense, I was like, support for Brick Stowell, who is like, the guy. And Brick is someone I knew since middle school. So that's how I ended up in all of that. And the reason I got fired, essentially, is because I was creating more problems you're solving. Yeah. Like, there was some bad ones.

[Interviewer 1]

You're, like, that negative. Yeah.

[Matt McCormick]

But fortunately, that. All of that is why I do what I do now. Like, Tyler, I remember being on. And I've told the story a million times, we were on the bus on Tyler's first tour, and I brought a bunch of art supplies with me and. Because I had been making art my whole life, but it was really reduced at this point, and I remember him being like, you need to be doing this. This is what you need to be doing. And I still, to this day, that was kind of the moment where I was like, all right, wow, I'm gonna do this. And so, you know, thank you.

[Interviewer 1]

Did he tattoo him?

[Matt McCormick]

The accent? We did. We used to do, like, every time we released the album, we do, like, the album on. It's like.

[Interviewer 1]

Right.

[Matt McCormick]

Make some very crazy posts that made it look like it was starting to stick.

[Interviewer 1]

That's our Tyler put that in his dude board for Instagram. Matt McCormick, how much money did you make?

[Matt McCormick]

I don't know. Pocket watching over here.

[Interviewer 1]

Yeah, not enough. Too much.

[Matt McCormick]

Look, I'm a. Like I said, I'm a capitalist pig. I'm always trying to make more because the more I can make, the more freedom I have as an artist. So, you know, and I. And I. I need to pay for my dogs to be spoiled and my fiance to have nice things.

[Interviewer 1]

What do you feed your dogs? Is it like, farmers, blue or D?

[Matt McCormick]

Farmer's dog. Although on the walk over here, my. My significant other was saying we need to switch them off of that. She wants to get them a nutritionist.

[Interviewer 1]

Oh, wow.

[Matt McCormick]

Wow. They're. They're older. They. Ten and a half. And they're, like, the most important thing to me in the world, so I sport.

[Interviewer 1]

What's my dog?

[Matt McCormick]

Two huskies.

[Interviewer 1]

Sorry?

[Matt McCormick]

Huskies. Oh, nice.

[Interviewer 1]

They howl at the moon.

[Matt McCormick]

They do their talking. They're. Yeah, one of them does a little bit. They don't do the howling at the moon thing, but they're very huskies. I mean that. I got one, and then I found the other on the freeway. Oh. I've had them both for about two.

[Interviewer 1]

Thank you for your service. Do they have same eyes as you?

[Matt McCormick]

Yeah, we all have blue eyes. Where else is the family? Yeah, exactly. Exactly.

[Interviewer 1]

Besides your comics, your family, your children, besides your art practice, Besides tattoos and sparks, what do you like to spend your money on?

[Matt McCormick]

What do I spend my money on? I mean, really, like, it all goes towards the. What I work on, the projects and everything. Like, that's, like, what's really important. My studio, you know? Besides that, though, what do I buy? I mean, look, I want to buy art, but I'm also, like, obsessive. Be saving because I'm like, one. We can't figure out where we want to live. That's been a fight for about.

[Interviewer 1]

What are the options?

[Matt McCormick]

Seven years. We kind of jumped between here in LA and we recently have been talking about the Bay Area, where I'm from in the county. And so we, we were going to buy a place here and I'm sure you are very aware how expensive it is to buy a house in New York. It's crazy because it's not like buying a house anywhere else. You're like, oh, this price is cool. And then building fees, you know what I mean? So like your monthly payments are insane. And in a fight about this, I went on to Zillow and found a great rental where I'm from. And so now we're doing this triangle thing which is significantly less than I would have spent to buy. Let's do crazy. Like one bedroom apartment. Got me two apartments. Yeah. Or a house in an apartment for the price that I would have spent. That's very thankful, you know, Lucky. But I, we're. I'm in this moment where like the next chapters are kind of like coming into the. The mirror or the, the window or whatever, maybe. And you know, and so I'm like, where do I want to do that? Yeah, you know, like I love New York, but I'm getting a lot of pushback on being in New York. I'm. I love LA for certain things, but I don't know if I want to do that there. I love where I'm from, but that, that's where my money is.

[Interviewer 1]

Okay.

[Matt McCormick]

It's like to have that kind of freedom, a roof over my head and traveling and all that kind of stuff. But like, like when we did the fifth, all this is like my whole outfit minus the watch. It's like 100 bucks. Yeah, maybe, maybe.

[Interviewer 1]

Dumb things. What was, what was the last nice gift that bought for your Sig o?

[Matt McCormick]

I bought a Chanel dress last week. That's Matthew Blaz.

[Interviewer 1]

Chanel. The new Chanel.

[Matt McCormick]

Or was it Vin? It was her birthday. We went to Chanel in San Francisco and it was really funny cuz I gave myself a number and then four, three blew right past dude.

[Interviewer 1]

Every dude.

[Matt McCormick]

And it was like one of those moments where I was like, well, I'll cover the difference. And I was like, that is a trap I'm not going to fall into. But then it was like 6 o' clock and I have this weird regimen. I have to have like coffee before it gets too late. Oh, I want to get coffee. It was. They spent like half an hour packaging it and so I'm like, hey, I'm going to go get a coffee real quick. I'll come back. And I'm walking out the door and the security guard looks me like I See that face? And I was like, you saw that? And he was like, I had it yesterday and my girl made me come here too.

[Interviewer 1]

Oh, yeah.

[Matt McCormick]

When I was there.

[Interviewer 1]

As someone that grew up in San Francisco in the 90s, what do you think of like, current and the first.com boom? What do you think of current day SF Bay Area?

[Matt McCormick]

I mean, it's always there, the good stuff.

[Interviewer 1]

Yeah.

[Matt McCormick]

But it's definitely hard to find. You know, San Francisco gets like a bad rep in some ways because of all that. And. And that's whatever. To me, San Francisco and the Bay Area, where I do, is the most beautiful part of the country. Or to me, New York is my favorite city in the world because I just. It's everything. Yes. You know what I mean? But like, where we go and stay out where I grew up in Marin County. Yeah. It's. You can't be right.

[Interviewer 1]

The delta between San Francisco and its surrounding areas is the widest gap of any other city. And it's running areas. New York, I mean, also just like, ease of getting out there. But yes, the fucking most beautiful part of the country.

[Matt McCormick]

It's kind of like not a real place. It's funny because I was just there last week or whatever and. And you're like driving around, you're like. It's almost like a weird, like children's game with the hills and all the kind. Everything's very tight, small, and it's a screensaver. Yeah. And obviously like every, like, it got a lot of crazy reputation for like the homelessness and the dead thing and all that kind of stuff. Like that is a very real thing. They've been actually clean up in a pretty real way. And in skateboarding, which is one of the many cultures I come from, it's definitely a very. It's still a very important city. The art thing has always been kind of hit or miss. There's a lot of good collectors and there's a lot of really good art at the moment. There's incredible and musically in the counterculture that I love. I eat grateful dance the beads and all that kind of stuff. Huge. You know what I mean? So historically, it's got a lot that speaks to me. Obviously, I'm biased because I'm from there. You know what I mean? And I love it. But I think, like, in terms of the world, it's a great city. Yeah. It's the texture. Pretty whack. But also it affects all of us. Yeah. You know, they got.

[Interviewer 1]

They got art money.

[Matt McCormick]

They do. They don't spend it on America, they don't. That's been something that our world's been trying to track.

[Interviewer 1]

Oh, really?

[Matt McCormick]

Ever?

[Interviewer 1]

Because they don't have good taste or because

[Matt McCormick]

is in Santa? What's that? The only gallery ever opened and closed in San Francisco Is that because they

[Interviewer 1]

have terrible taste, they just want to spend it on, like bad clothes and like conquering the world or making more money or what.

[Matt McCormick]

2. 2 thoughts on this. Well, my thought was. Or one thing I read in that sound of that is that, you know, historically artists were looked at as like thought changers and people that were kind of like really pushing the, you know, the. The envelope on where we were as a society and philosophically and the rest of it. And they think of themselves as that now. Right. The other one that Jeffrey Dice recently explained when I brought this up to him was he said that people will just go to LA to buy instead. They'll say, oh, I'll make a weekend of it and go down there and buy it there instead. So I don't know. I think both could be true. But they have not cracked that market. Like they. They try really hard.

[Interviewer 1]

Yeah. To woo the buyers, to woo the tech guys.

[Matt McCormick]

They're not down.

[Interviewer 1]

You know, that's crazy because you would think that these guys just love buying taste and culture.

[Matt McCormick]

They don't see the value.

[Interviewer 1]

Yeah, right. Some do, but they don't see the.

[Matt McCormick]

Right.

[Interviewer 1]

I guess when they're like, when they're dealing with that level of money, they don't seem to value, like not just being. Having a cultural peace in their home, but like as a financial instrument, like, oh, I'll make a million off this, and if I hold it for 10 years, that's nothing.

[Matt McCormick]

I think some of them do, but when you're like, when you're a company that you started like in your dorm room, like, yes. Valuated at a billion dollars, you're like,

[Interviewer 1]

well, there's the art at the first Facebook office.

[Matt McCormick]

Right.

[Interviewer 1]

Like shows his graffiti or whatever.

[Matt McCormick]

Well, okay, so there's. I think some stuff does well, but I think like, majority of like stuff that might do well here, like, yo,

[Interviewer 1]

Nvidia, you want me to come in and fucking draw some shit on anyone else?

[Matt McCormick]

Like I said, I'm down. Let's go. Yo.

[Interviewer 1]

You can go. Ham and our student.

[Matt McCormick]

Yeah, yeah. Podcasting is technically. Yeah, yeah, sure.

[Interviewer 1]

Is there anything you refuse to spend a lot of money on?

[Matt McCormick]

Clothes, please.

[Interviewer 1]

For yourself.

[Matt McCormick]

For myself, yeah. The world. Yeah. Well, yeah, that was a learning curve for me. But that's also the thing. It's Like, I love making clothes and doing that and I love some nice clothes, but I'm also like love a deal like any everyone else. The stuff I like, like I shop on Amazon, Etsy and ebay.

[Interviewer 1]

Are you big vintage T shirt guy or what about Grateful Dead vintage stuff?

[Matt McCormick]

I collect it. I don't wear it, but I collect. I collect black metal shirts. Like, that's one thing that I have a lot of that I wear like when I work out around the house.

[Interviewer 1]

Your phone covers, as they say.

[Matt McCormick]

Yeah, I'm very. I'm very. Because they're black. Yeah, you fuss with mayhem. I. With mayhem for sure. Like that.

[Interviewer 1]

That album cover they did with the guy's suicide.

[Matt McCormick]

Yes. I actually I almost a dark throne short shirt here today that I brought out when I was really kind of overthinking what I was wearing here. But you know, I mean, I love. To me they're like, aesthetically like, they say something.

[Interviewer 1]

It's art.

[Matt McCormick]

Yeah. To me. And they're a beautiful thing. You know, like when people ask, like, where do you want to go? Like, where's your perk? Vacation in school? That whole world.

[Interviewer 1]

Have you spent a lot of time.

[Matt McCormick]

I've been up there. I've gone on a solo trip around Norway and just like, listen to black metal. Hiking around by myself.

[Interviewer 1]

That was your Mecca?

[Matt McCormick]

It was really like four days just

[Interviewer 1]

to burn a church down.

[Matt McCormick]

Couple churches burned.

[Interviewer 1]

Yeah. What is a purchase you've made recently that you kind of regret?

[Matt McCormick]

Oh, there was one the other day. I mean, that's the problem with Amazon is I just fire crap off all the time. You sound like my wife. Well, it's like, okay, so my dog's got knee surgery and I started buying all these things that he didn't need for his knee surgery. Yeah. So there was. That was the one the other day. I was like, I need to return this thing. I'm trying to think of something of more value that was like a serious purchase. Someone's art just I. I NFT. Yeah. No NFTs. But like, I. Yeah, I don't know. I mean, like, I probably buy too much crap on Amazon that ends up in my garage. But I really, like, don't. I don't know. I don't buy too much.

[Interviewer 1]

Are you a car guy?

[Matt McCormick]

I do like cars. I'm not a car guy in the sense. Like I'm like under the hood, that kind of thing. But I like what I like.

[Interviewer 1]

What do you like?

[Matt McCormick]

I drive a Dodge Ram and I drive a 2007 Cadillac TTS. Okay. Yeah, I've driven Cadillacs since forever. I've always liked Cadillacs.

[Interviewer 1]

Have you ever incorporated Cadillac into your art like the Insignia?

[Matt McCormick]

I haven't, but if Cadillac wants to work together, please, I'm down.

[Interviewer 1]

You know some people.

[Matt McCormick]

Yeah, I love Cadillac and I. Yeah, well, so it's funny, the Dodge Ram. So when I started becoming an adult, making a little money, I felt like I had this thing where I thought I need to. I guess needed to show it off in some way. That's where watches enter my life. And I bought a Range Rover and I ended up having two Range Rovers and the second one I had, I got hit while driving. Like right after I bought it the whole bumper just fell off and it had to get fixed and I. They didn't have any nice parts to give me so they gave me truck. And I started driving this truck around la and it was like night and day. How people treat you to drive a truck. I'd always wanted a truck, but I never had one. I'm getting one of these.

[Interviewer 1]

How do they treat you?

[Matt McCormick]

Well, I was in a white one, so they just treat you like a guy that's going to work. And it was such a freeing feeling and so now I swear by it.

[Interviewer 1]

Wait, meaning like they like give you like they wave you in. Wow.

[Matt McCormick]

I had one moment. This is really funny as I was going to Christie's to watch a talk. Do she like art talks in your house in Beverly Hill? But I was in the white truck and I tried to pull in this garage where they. The truck wasn't going to fit. And so I back. I'm pulling into the thing and I realized it and there's like a line of cars behind me and a. Another truck guy is coming out and he's like. He gets out of his car, he's waving, yelling at people to get out of my way. He was really like. There was a we're one kind of

[Interviewer 1]

thing, one worker stick to another.

[Matt McCormick]

But. But yeah. And also I kind of got over that thing where I felt like I needed to flaunt this thing. You know I normally I'm always a long sleeve. I don't want to show off any. I don't know, I don't like really looking. Flexing is yet not my.

[Interviewer 1]

So when you had a flexing moment when you started making a little bit of scrilla to watch the range anyhow that like I don't know, maybe now looking back with hindsight and wisdom. Yeah, that wasn't really. That wasn't me.

[Matt McCormick]

Those are the main ones, the watch is what I really thought because I was like, you have to own a home. That was my thing. I was. You have to own a home before you buy a watch. Like, that's like, you shouldn't feel like it might be. Yeah, that was my thing at the time. And then I was doing that show with Darren and a friend of mine's like, you gotta have a watch, dude. So I bought like, like a two tone similar to this kind of thing, wore that for a couple years, and then got over that thing.

[Interviewer 1]

Is John Mayer an influence on you when it comes to, like being a watch guy?

[Matt McCormick]

He helped me get this. Not bad.

[Interviewer 1]

Tell you to come on the show, by the way.

[Matt McCormick]

Yeah, I will. Tell me.

[Interviewer 1]

I was like, the best fucking time.

[Matt McCormick]

I will. I will. I will put it. I'm working on a painting for him right now, but maybe I can slip that into.

[Interviewer 1]

Do you do a lot of commission work?

[Matt McCormick]

I love commission work. A lot of people don't like it. I really like it. It kind of takes a lot of the internal, like, battle.

[Interviewer 1]

I don't think you like it or your arms.

[Matt McCormick]

A lot of artists don't like it because it feels like they're being told what to do.

[Interviewer 1]

Wait, so John.

[Matt McCormick]

Okay, so real quick.

[Interviewer 1]

So someone is like, I want you to make this specific thing. Not just like, I want a Matt

[Matt McCormick]

McCormick or it varies, but I'm pretty loose about it. Like for that situation, for example, he just showed me a warpy bike and he's like, I want my mic for my home. Got it. And I also. I really like working. He's like, creatively one of like my favorite people to kind of work. I think he's just really like. He has a cool mind and the way he thinks about this stuff is really cool. But there's definitely been nightmare commission situations. But a Dallas housewife, that's like, yeah, but like, yeah, like where I was gave one up to like, Texas. Like, you now work for this person. Do it again. Yeah, and that was miserable. For the most part. It's usually like, hey, we like this body of work. Can you make us like, okay, do you.

[Interviewer 1]

Do you came to friends or are you open?

[Matt McCormick]

Like, when it is to friends? They're friends and family.

[Interviewer 1]

Rig for a Matt McCormick.

[Matt McCormick]

There's definitely little friends and family right there's. I mean, you know, it's a tiered system, but.

[Interviewer 1]

System, bro. What's John S tier?

[Matt McCormick]

Yeah, John is up in the nice tier. I mean, John has really helped. Helped me a lot in my career. He's like, give me opportunities and kind of, you know, I got to do a lot of work with Dan Co and the grateful jobs because of him, which is a really big full search for me. So, you know, of course. And then that's when I like. He asked me to change something on the work the other day, and he was like, I don't want to be a bad. I was like, you know, you know, and that. And that's really how I treat it all. It's like, I just am happy that people want to praise me.

[Interviewer 1]

You ever have any friendships that ended over commission work where they're like, their true colors came out? You know what? You're a piece of shit.

[Matt McCormick]

Not over. Well, maybe over like more commercial jobs. Less over, like, paintings, but. And I try to like, not burn your dress, but yeah, that's tough to mix with.

[Interviewer 1]

Not just working friendship, but also like your, like your sacred space.

[Matt McCormick]

Yeah. But I also know that, like, there's science to it. Right? You know, there's. There's stuff. It's the hits versus the hits. And so, like, you just know. But yeah, I mean, there's commercial products you work on where they start getting really. You're like, okay, we've passed the revision clause and now you're.

[Interviewer 1]

We are past that. You know, my cat, gbt, that whipped up his contract, me says that, yeah,

[Matt McCormick]

fortunately, I have a Red Vargas. He protects me and all that stuff. And he's like my sensei when it comes to that. But like, that good. There are times where it's also like, what job it is. And I'm sure you guys have versions of that too, where it's like, okay, gotta give this one some leeway. Yeah. And someone else, you'd be like, no, you, bro.

[Interviewer 1]

All right, Armani.

[Matt McCormick]

I will.

[Interviewer 1]

I will give you an.

[Matt McCormick]

I will.

[Interviewer 1]

Exactly.

[Matt McCormick]

And one of them. One of them was one of those. And I was like, this is crazy.

[Interviewer 1]

Okay, last question or second?

[Matt McCormick]

Last question.

[Interviewer 1]

Of all the various sectors of culture that you worked with, fashion, but not just your own shit. But I'm talking about like in a collaborative. In a collaborative sense. Fashion, music, music. What else? Like, what other, like, type of collaborations, what sector of partner is typically the most bitch ass, like, wack? Yeah, because we don't. We Raven know fashion people.

[Matt McCormick]

And I guess, like, I do equal ones that were kind of frustrating in fashion and music and in. And art. Like, so everybody, it's just really the person. You know what I mean? So like, and it's kind of like people that are entitled and that's something, I think, to go back to other parts of this conversation. We live in, like, entitled times. You know what I mean? Who has drank their own Kool Aid too much? You know what I mean?

[Interviewer 1]

Who doesn't think they're. A lot of people are drunk on that dog.

[Matt McCormick]

Exactly. And we all deal with it, with that. And it's like, you know, there's a million memes about freelance work that talk about this shit. But, like, for the most part, I will say that my experience in all this stuff has been pretty good, but.

[Interviewer 1]

Because you'd like to keep working.

[Matt McCormick]

Yeah, exactly. And you also just have to have thick skin at a certain point because you won't get more jobs and you don't. Yeah. And, like, the real reality is that, like, yeah, they're ones that are whack, and then they don't work again.

[Interviewer 1]

How is it about Post Malone? Was he a chill guy?

[Matt McCormick]

Post is amazing. He's like, the guy knows. Talking about someone who knows how to do what they're supposed to do, you know, that we did that project, and he's cool. Like, I had, like, we have a lot of crossover in, like, so many different worlds. And, like, a lot of the guys that he writes music with or guys from Asheville that I know through a lot of country stuff, I do. So, like, when we were hanging out, like, I did that project through another friend from the fashion space that. I'm not sure if I'm allowed to say they were involved, but they brought me. They're from the Bear and someone I know, like, from the regular fashion world. And then when I was there hanging out with him, he's like, hanging all these, like, younger songwriter guys from Nashville that are just, like, good old boys that, like, you know, it's, like, cool. But that's what he is at this point. You know what I mean? It's like, he's just like. It was funny watching through the interview with Logan like that. Crushing Bud Lights.

[Interviewer 1]

Yeah.

[Matt McCormick]

Just like, doing a.

[Interviewer 1]

What's his Bud Light consumption a day.

[Matt McCormick]

Oh, yeah.

[Interviewer 1]

I mean, he's the face of the brand.

[Matt McCormick]

I mean, it's impressive. You know what I mean? It's like. I don't know, he's able to drink Bud Light the way I was able to drink Bud Light in high school. So I talk about all the time. Like, for some reason in high school, I could drink way more beer than I could as an adult. I'm sure. Okay.

[Interviewer 1]

That's your prostate.

[Matt McCormick]

Yeah. But, yeah, he's. I don't Know, he's just. He like puts it on. I don't know if he's like behind closed doors, but. And I get the show and that's what we're doing about these people say you get the.

[Interviewer 1]

Oh, you get the. You know, you get the Tyler performance.

[Matt McCormick]

Tyler. I have seen the real Tyler.

[Interviewer 1]

No, I just feel like the general. Like the what?

[Matt McCormick]

The. Yeah, yeah. But like. Yeah, no, he's awesome.

[Interviewer 1]

Shout out a lot of people that we're going to need you to help

[Matt McCormick]

get us on the show.

[Interviewer 1]

Put post on that list. And Tyler and John.

[Matt McCormick]

I don't know. I'll go, I'll go. Back to the land of Los Angeles. Yes.

[Interviewer 1]

Yeah, I mean that. Us begging you for some favors might have ting the next question. But before you get you out of here, Matt, we've had an hour, Almost an hour 45 with you and we hope that you've had a good time,

[Matt McCormick]

but I love it.

[Interviewer 1]

Do you have any constructive criticism that you'd like to give us?

[Matt McCormick]

No. I knew what I was getting into and no, but I'm a fan of the show. I like the way you guys really talk. Like people we would talk. Didn't have a camera on us. Oh.

[Interviewer 1]

Oh, shit.

[Matt McCormick]

We're bored. Yeah. I don't know. That's why I was excited to do this was because I was like.

[Interviewer 1]

Appreciate that.

[Matt McCormick]

Cool. I know we haven't met before this, but we have a lot of friends at Trauma and like, it's kind of surprising.

[Interviewer 1]

We have brand new Instagram friends.

[Matt McCormick]

Yeah, that's right. Yes, I know.

[Interviewer 1]

Team, fall back over here. What do you think of just how we've kind of artistically done with the place? We got a clock of some giant balls gift from Adam Pally from the show. We have just this.

[Matt McCormick]

I know they're Instagram friends in real

[Interviewer 1]

life, North African textile and then a bunch of just layered on.

[Matt McCormick]

I mean, we could use smart, right? It's Wagyu Sabi.

[Interviewer 1]

Oh, okay. Dude, I'll take that all day.

[Matt McCormick]

I mean, it's very John. It's. We're on the lower east side of an apartment.

[Interviewer 1]

You know, we are missing a free Matt McCormick.

[Matt McCormick]

Just right, let's talk, you know, let's figure it out. You know what I mean? Yeah. You scratch my back,

[Interviewer 1]

Matt. Where can the kids follow you? What would you like to plug? You got the JMS coming out.

[Matt McCormick]

I got a big project coming out next week with Mike Tyson.

[Interviewer 1]

What? That's right. What's like working with Iron Mike?

[Matt McCormick]

It was interesting. I mean, you know I've used him. Used him. I've incorporated him into work that I've made over the years. And a collector of mine who's become a close friend had this idea of. He comes from the memorabilia space. He's a big art collector, but also a major memorabilia collector. And he had the idea of basically getting Mike to sign this painting and then making prints that we released the way that, like hard collectors. So, you know, they like rip packs. The print comes in a pack that looks. You don't know you're getting.

[Interviewer 1]

Right.

[Matt McCormick]

And there's basic variants, and there's two variants. One is Signed by Me, which is much more approachable, price wise. It's 499 for that one and 9.99 for the. The bigger one. 18 by 24 inches, signed by me and Mike. And there's two one of ones in both. It's like gamified it, the way it's done. I saw it on ig. It's sick. Yeah. So we're getting ready for that. I have a show and did he.

[Interviewer 1]

Do you, like, work with Mike one on one or.

[Matt McCormick]

Yes.

[Interviewer 1]

When I actually FaceTimed him, like, what is he. I mean, what was that experience like?

[Matt McCormick]

It was great. So I flew down to Houston where he does this kind of stuff. He does a. There's a person he works with and they have a warehouse, and he comes in a couple times a year in the signs all day. And so we set this up and it was kind of a whole weird thing. Like we were in there and the lights all turned off and they were kind of freaking out because they were like, we got to do this signing. And then the lights off. Then he shows up, the lights go on.

[Interviewer 1]

Oh, wow.

[Matt McCormick]

He lights up a room. Yeah, he went in and out the room. He comes in, sits down. He has his tea, his agave syrup, which looks like a whiskey bottle, which is really crazy. I was like, teeth drinking, sits down, he puts headphones in, and he just goes, we got so I can be eating, Sin of Pain, all that kind of stuff. And. And then he starts signing the Prince. And I was like, what is he listening to? You know, and Norwegian. Like, 20 minutes later, they're like, he's listening to say My Name, Justin's Child on review.

[Interviewer 1]

What? As he writes for eight hours. Sign my name. Sign my name.

[Matt McCormick]

Yeah, for hours. That's insane. Incredible.

[Interviewer 1]

My text. Autistic.

[Matt McCormick]

He's a spiritual guru of some. So that's why I really like it. It's less about the boxing for me and more about, like, what he represents

[Interviewer 1]

was he put down any Mike Tyson edibles.

[Matt McCormick]

I'm pretty sure he was blazing at some point. Quick break at one point, but he was. Dude, I've signed a lot of prints. This guy signed a short hat for everything. Strong. And he's just. Just. And there's like a whole setup, like, down a long table like this.

[Interviewer 1]

It's empowered by Destiny's Child, bro.

[Matt McCormick]

Yeah. So there's that, which is a big deal called Pass the Line. I'll be promoting that all week, and then I have a show here in New York or in September on September 11th.

[Interviewer 1]

Oh.

[Matt McCormick]

Which I'm very excited about at Ratajkowski, down to.

[Interviewer 1]

You're excited about September 11th?

[Matt McCormick]

Yeah, 25th anniversary. That's true. I have a show there that I'm really excited about. And simultaneously. Where's that? What hour is that at Ratajkowski 68 on Portland Alley.

[Interviewer 1]

Is it 911 related?

[Matt McCormick]

Well, I've talked about that stuff in my work at points. I've never directly referenced it. Actually, I'm one sculpture I met at direct reference to. But the show, like, everything will be talked about when I talk about. And then at the same time, we're going to bring the rest of the world, so in another space in the city, we're bringing the brand, we're bringing the book publishing company that I do, and we're going to kind of have like, a way to go to the show and then also enter the whole world in this other space. So it'll be kind of a takeover. You can drink one of these days whiskey. You can buy a book.

[Interviewer 1]

What's it like having whiskey brand as a sober guy? Just real quick.

[Matt McCormick]

Well, I did another alcohol in the launch of the Pandemic, a hard seltzer. So I went through the whole process of it.

[Interviewer 1]

I hate the word for it.

[Matt McCormick]

It tastes good. Yeah. I've never tasted any of them. The whiskey is very on brand for the world I'm building over there. And it was something I always just wanted to do because I may be sober, but, like, I think everyone should get up and have as much fun as they want, as long as they're not hurting anyone. As long as they're not hurting women or themselves, hopefully. But if you want to hurt yourself, you know, that's on you. Get it? No, but, you know, it's like, I don't know, Like, I. I love all these brands and. And so to be a part of something that potentially be like, that is cool, like, to me. You know what I mean? Like, I don't know. Their Jack Daniels is iconic in. In and outside of the alcohol space. Yeah. And so I just love making different.

[Interviewer 1]

So it's just you're. What's something you want to make that you haven't yet done? A car, A trail.

[Matt McCormick]

Oh, I want to customize. I want to do and actually that project, we are talking with car department about doing it there and that would require making a car. So that might be a version. But I. My. My dream and I think once like Carver just did a truck. I've always wanted to do like you know, Eddie Bauer did the. Those kind. They'd like to do that at some point with Escalate. Not the cor one of these days. I love esc but like yeah, like a, like a, you know, like a Chevy or something. If I really do every cyber truck,

[Interviewer 1]

that's how you finally crack the tech world. And it's so bad. I.

[Matt McCormick]

Yeah.

[Interviewer 1]

Matt, thank you for coming on to only podcast just under two hours.

[Matt McCormick]

Chef.

[Interviewer 1]

Take some Marketing is hard, but I'll tell you a little secret. It doesn't have to be. Let me point something out. You're listening to a podcast right now and it's great. You love the host. You seek it out and download it. You listen to it while driving, working out, cooking, even going to the bathroom. Podcasts are a pretty close companion. And this is a podcast ad. Did I get your attention? You can reach great listeners like yourself with podcast advertising from Libsyn Ads. Choose from hundreds of top podcasts offering host endorsements or run a pre produced ad like this one across thousands of shows. To reach your target audience in their favorite podcasts with Libsyn ads, go to Libsynads.com that's L I B S Y N ads.com today.