The Nick Williams and Phil Ayers Interview with Throwing Fits - Throwing Fits

Transcript

Phil Ayers (0:00)

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Nick Williams (0:25)

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Lawrence (0:29)

our guests this week might be small talk, but they're here for big chat. This dynamic duo is based in the garment district, but they go damn near interdimensional for their dead stock sourcing and custom textile milling. The cut and soul mates are legit stars in this small constellation, keeping New York City's fashion hopes alive and well. With their spring collection hitting shelves now. Here to chat men's fashion victims, actual menswear talent being constantly overlooked and strangers taking shits in their studio. The co founders of Small Talk Studio, Nick Williams and Phil Ayers. Nick and Phil, how the hell are you?

Nick Williams (0:57)

Very good. That was amazing.

James (1:00)

Can you guys, like, just keep the energy down a little bit?

Nick Williams (1:02)

This is.

James (1:03)

This is a lot up top. I don't think we're ready.

Nick Williams (1:06)

I'm sorry. I was distracted. I was. I was stuck on the line about someone taking a. In our studio.

Lawrence (1:10)

Well, we're gonna ask about that.

James (1:11)

Yeah.

Lawrence (1:12)

Just because, like, you have an open, open door policy on the studio. Right? We.

Nick Williams (1:15)

No, no, no.

Phil Ayers (1:17)

It could be a little bit misleading, but we. We're trying to get to that point,

Lawrence (1:21)

but people can just stop by.

Phil Ayers (1:23)

People can and people do, but we have, like, turned to people, a few people away for showing up at kind of inopportune time, really. I think. I think also some people who are maybe not based here just think it's like a store.

Summary

Throwing Fits — The Nick Williams & Phil Ayers (Small Talk Studio) Interview

Release Date: April 13, 2026

Episode Overview

This lively episode features Nick Williams and Phil Ayers, co-founders of New York’s Small Talk Studio, a brand known for its unique mix of hand-drawn graphics, custom textiles, and playful yet wearable menswear. The duo discusses the challenges and rewards of building an independent fashion label from the ground up in NYC’s Garment District, the evolution of their design philosophy, surviving and thriving as small business owners, and their candid thoughts on the ever-changing state of menswear. The tone is witty, self-deprecating, and relaxed, with deep dives into studio anecdotes, fashion victimology, the pitfalls of custom work, and how they keep clothing fun.

Key Themes & Discussions

1. The Small Talk Studio Origin Story

Early Days: Started during the pandemic as a side project, Small Talk picked up traction with press mentions and social shares.
Transition to Partnership: Nick and Phil, former roommates, became business partners after recognizing growing demand (43:04–44:26).

“It took off. It very quickly surpassed my own capacity to do that. And Phil and I had a good enough friendship, working relationship, respected each other's creative practice.” – Nick Williams (44:03)

2. Studio Culture & Operations

Open-Door Policy & Studio Life: Their Garment District studio is a hub for drop-ins and appointments, but with some boundaries to avoid interruptions.
Division of Labor: Phil leads on graphics and marketing; Nick focuses on design, production, and logistics (36:53–39:58).

“Phil has heroically taken that [drawing] on single-handedly for the last two and a half years at least… Phil’s running Instagram, marketing; I’m doing more design and production.” – Nick Williams (36:53–39:58)

3. Design Ethos: Fun, Wearable, Playful

Wear Testing Everything: Nick and Phil wear Small Talk daily, modeling their own lines and rigorously testing fits before launch (12:08–12:39).
Balancing Quiet and Freaky: They strive to hit a sweet spot between playful, graphic-forward items and subtler, classic pieces.
Suiting & Accessories: Hats and suiting are current bestsellers; their unique, relaxed suiting is designed to be less “stiff” than traditional options (23:08–25:21).

4. Menswear & “Fashion Victims”

NYC as Inspiration and Caution: The hosts ask about fashion victim typologies—overly try-hard, credit-card-fueled kids, or those obsessed with looking “chill” but actually rigid (51:14–52:05).

“You can, you know, when you see someone who's a try hard... There's a difference between taking risks and just having.” – Nick Williams (51:14)
Reflections on the Industry: The team discusses how NYC indie brands get overlooked for larger, “legacy” names and the downsides of current minimal/quiet luxury trends (53:10–58:09, 76:25–80:14).

5. Getting Real About the Grind

Brutal Days, Broke Days: Stories range from declined cards on dates because of business cash flow to failed attempts to redeem Chipotle vouchers for lunch (94:35–98:19).

"Phil got the note. I would know where Nick was, what he was up to, and I would get an email…would have to bailout my boy out.” – Phil Ayers (95:25–95:47)
Advice for New Designers: Take it slow; keep the day job as long as possible, as being small means doing the work of many roles (67:32–68:25).

6. Balancing Friendship & Business

Never Fought (Yet): The two describe themselves as non-confrontational, with an even-keeled process for vetting “bad” ideas and maintaining a healthy dialogue (41:09–45:28).
How They Handle Bad Ideas: “Let’s sleep on it and revisit tomorrow.” – Phil Ayers (45:02)
Celebrating Each Other’s Strengths: Nick pushes “bad” ideas more often; Phil’s creative feedback comes in as gentle tweaks.

7. Creative Collaborations & Inspirations

Artist Collabs: They love partnering with friends and admired artists for unique capsule features (70:11–71:12).
Dream Collaborations: Our Legacy Workshop—a model of thoughtful, intentional partnership—is at the top of their wishlist (75:23–76:03).
Celebrity Endorsements: Selena Gomez, Patrick Schwarzenegger, and Kareem Abdul-Jabbar are among those spotted in Small Talk, but the business impact varies (71:12–73:33).

8. The Business of Fashion—Retail, Trends, & Knock-Offs

Stockists & Retail Approach: Local NYC stores (Colbo, Cueva & Sun, Blue in Green, Chad, etc.) are top supporters. In Japan, playful graphics are hot sellers (81:25–87:46).
Walmart Rip-Off Story: A customer finds a Small Talk design being knock-off’d and sold on Walmart Marketplace—even with the original tag in the picture! Nick orders one himself to inspect quality (80:14–83:42).

“Somebody, a seller on Walmart’s online marketplace…just fully ripped a screenshot of this T-shirt…literally used the photo from our website where you can see the small talk tag in it.” – Nick Williams (80:24–81:07)

9. Upcoming Releases, Blank Line Launch

Spring 26 Collection: Features mesh jackets, new windbreakers, teased on the show as wear-test samples.
Basics/Blank Line: A new focus for 2026—well-fitted, affordable blank tees ($75–90) and zip hoodies ($150–180), aiming for vertical integration and less reliance on wholesale advice (92:29–94:13).

10. Philosophy: Keeping Clothing Fun

Against Quiet Luxury Homogeneity: Despite industry shifts, Nick and Phil believe clothing should be joyful and personal, encouraging playfulness in self-expression (79:10–80:14).

“I just think, like, this shit should be fun. The market is very saturated with a lot of the same shit…we want to have some fun with it and, like, experiment and try things…” – Phil Ayers (79:28–80:14)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

On Success and Imposter Syndrome:
“You guys are fucking killing it right now…my bank account is not killing it right now.” — Nick Williams (15:43–16:56)
On Surviving NYC Studio Life:
“Our only real issue was Phil’s wetsuits stinking up the bathroom.” — Nick Williams (41:57)
On Being Overlooked in NYC Menswear:
“There is something very special that people can feel in the process of iterating over and over again and maybe embarrassing yourself along the way…” — Nick Williams (53:10–54:30)
On Getting Ripped Off:
“Somebody…just fully ripped a screenshot of this T-shirt from our Spring Summer 25 collection. Used the photo from our website with the tag in it!” — Nick Williams (80:24–81:07)
On Fashion Victims:
“There should be a limit for your mom’s credit card…shouldn’t have access to whatever you want to buy until you’ve maybe put in a little work to figure out some taste.” — Nick Williams (51:14–52:03)
On Work-Life Balance:
“We try to sync up vacations so the recharge happens at the same time.” — Phil Ayers (101:33–101:38)
On Customer Demands:
“The only time we’ve ever gotten in trouble making a custom garment was leaving off a Coke Zero can. She hit us with a chargeback for $1,500!” — Phil Ayers (63:36–66:15)
On Broke Designer Days:
“There were a few times when the card got declined…and Phil got the notification, so he’d bail me out.” — Nick Williams & Phil Ayers (94:35–95:47)
On the Joy of Small Brand Life:
“The most rewarding thing for us is seeing people wearing our shit around the city.” — Phil Ayers (50:31–50:50)

Selected Timestamps (MM:SS)

Fit Check & Studio Vibes: 02:00–14:15
Men’s Fashion Victims & Event Conversation Traps: 15:30–18:22
Best/Worst Sellers & Graphic Fatigue: 22:30–32:58
From Doodling to Brand-Building (The Origin Story): 42:53–44:27
Division of Labor: 36:53–39:58
Handling Bad Ideas & Partnership Harmony: 41:09–45:28
Studio Stories—Bathroom Etiquette: 41:57
Garment District Pros & Cons: 55:50–59:48
Knock-Offs & Walmart Saga: 80:14–84:05
Advice to New Designers: 67:32–68:25
Broke Artist Stories: 94:35–98:19
Fave Retailers & Fitting in NYC: 84:54–86:58
Constructive Criticism + Compliments for Throwing Fits: 100:43–102:54

Where to Find Small Talk Studio

Website: smalltalkstudio.biz (new design!)
Instagram: @smalltalk_studio (run by Phil)
Appointments: Book via their website for in-person studio shopping.

Final Thoughts

This episode is a must-listen for anyone interested in independent fashion, NYC style, or the grind of honest, creative small business. Nick and Phil provide a breezy but deeply insightful peek behind the curtain—showing the hustle, humor, and joy behind why they do what they do.